Military Review

This army can not throw a fez

73



RUSSIA BECAME ON THE BOUNDARY OF A MILITARY CONFLICT, SECOND IN NUMBER, BY THE ARMY OF NATO

On November 24, the Turkish Air Force attacked the Su-24M front-line bomber — in fact, the first armed clash took place between NATO forces and the Russian army. The bellicose rhetoric of politicians makes one think that Russia and Turkey can be drawn into an armed conflict. In this regard, the “Top Secret” correspondent understood that the Turkish army is not a new, but very likely opponent of the Russian Armed Forces.

The Turkish army is among the ten largest in the world, is the second largest member of NATO, most of them are only the USA. The combat structure of the Turkish army is about 600 thousand military personnel, another 400 thousand are in reserve. And this is one of the few European armies, where the call remained. Here, people are called up for military service from 20 years, having to pull a strap from 6 to 15 months, depending on the level of education of the recruit. In wartime, men between the ages of 16 and 60 years and women from 20 to 46 who can wear weapon. For mobilization in wartime, a reserve of up to 900 thousand people trained in military science can be used.

IN THE FIRE DO NOT BURN, BUT IN THE WATER THIN

Viktor Murakhovsky, a member of the Expert Council of the Board of the Military-Industrial Commission under the Government of Russia, said “Top Secret” that, despite the large number, this is not the most formidable army in Europe: “We must understand that conscripts significantly reduce combat readiness. Of course, there is a core in the Turkish army - officers and contract servicemen, who are quite well prepared.

Most professionals serve in aviation, special units, marine corps, they are equipped with more or less modern models of weapons and military equipment. As for the rest of the army, for example, ground forces, there, with the exception of some armored units that are equipped tanks Leopard 2A4, the rest are quite outdated weapons and high skills, to put it mildly, do not differ.

Nevertheless, we should not forget that the control system of the Turkish army is integrated into the system of the United Armed Forces of NATO in Europe, in particular, it is included in the structure of the Southern Command. The degree of integration is quite high, especially management systems, communications and staffs. Suffice it to say that the headquarters of the NATO Air Force in Southern Europe, which is located in Spain, received almost real-time data on the air situation in the region of Turkey and the border with Syria. This indicates a high technical equipment of the Turks. ”

Lieutenant-General Yevgeny Buzhinsky, in 2000 – 2009, Deputy Head of the Main Directorate of International Military Cooperation of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, and in 1984 – 1986 - Assistant Military Attache in the Republic of Turkey, told “Top Secret” that today it is difficult to assess the combat readiness of the Turkish army, but its preparation is much worse than that of the Russian:

“The Turks have an excessively large army, conscripts mainly from the villages. At the same time, it should be understood: everything that to the east of Ankara is far from Europe, there is practically no education. So it turns out that the discipline in the Turkish army is at a high level, but at the same time, the soldiers do not master modern military equipment. Of course, it is possible to truly evaluate the combat readiness of the army during real combat operations, but even here the example is negative.

The last time the Turks carried out a major military operation — the landing on Cyprus in the 1974 year — they demonstrated, to put it mildly, not a very high level of training. Having landed at six o'clock in the morning in August, on a completely flat beach with calm, they managed to sink their destroyer - several dozen marines sank. They threw airborne troops, while the soldiers massively broke their legs. It is necessary to understand that they have not increased in the last years of combat experience, although some units lead a sort of military action — they are fighting with partisan detachments of Kurds. ”


RETRO TECHNOLOGY ON MARCH

Nevertheless, one should not underestimate the Turkish army, if only because, according to the Stockholm Institute for Peace Studies, the military budget of this industry from 2013 to 2015 a year exceeded the figure of 20 billion dollars. This money is used primarily for the rearmament of Turkey, and, according to experts, the army of this country is rearming at a fairly high rate. Updating equipment is mainly due to imports. The main countries - suppliers of weapons - are the United States and Israel, in addition, Turkey is actively cooperating in the military field with leading NATO countries, and more recently with China, South Korea and Indonesia.

For example, today the international efforts of the Turkish Air Force have formed a powerful aviation fleet: more than 400 combat aircraft, among them 200 F 16 fighters, which are assembled in Turkey under license, and about 40 multi-purpose F 5 fighters. In addition, a lot is said about the contract for the purchase of hundreds of fifth-generation American Fighter F 35A. According to data published by the WikiLeaks Internet resource, tactical nuclear weapons are stored on the territory of the Incirlik base - the 61 aerial bombs, which have been upgraded to F 35A. Officially, this information has never been confirmed, but nonetheless.

The basis of the strike power of army aviation is 39 of obsolete American military helicopters Bell AH 1 Cobra, and it is also planned that in the near future more than 60 modern Turkish T 129, based on the Italian 129 helicopter, will arrive. In addition, at the disposal of the military to 400 transport and multipurpose helicopters and to 100 light aircraft.

The Turkish military makes a big bet on ground forces, here, as in the Russian army, tanks are considered the main striking force. The tank fleet includes about 4 thousands of tanks, including some modern German Leopard 300А2 around 4, two thousand thousand obsolete German and American tanks and almost one and a half thousand very old American M48А5, released in 1950-x, were stored. Also at the disposal of the Turkish army more than 4500 armored vehicles for various purposes.

From artillery: about a thousand self-propelled artillery installations, almost two thousand towed guns and more than 10 thousand mortars. Almost all of the artillery is American, but for the most part outdated. Considerable attention is paid to rocket artillery, in this segment there are about three hundred MLRS American, Chinese and its own production.

Recently, Turkey has received operational tactical missiles. We are talking about American ATACMS and our own tactical missiles J 600T, which were copied from the Chinese 611. There are a lot of anti-tank weapons, for example, the 400 order of American heavy anti-tank missile systems BGM 71 TOW6, which, by the way, a Russian helicopter was shot in Syria.

But the Turkish air defense system is in an embryonic state: at present it is represented by obsolete US anti-aircraft missile systems of long-range MIM 14 Nike-Hercules, American medium-range air defense systems MIM 23 HAWK, and also English Trailing Rapier air defense systems. In the future, the country's air defense system will be significantly enhanced by the supply from 12 of China of long-range HQ 9 divisional sets of air defense missile systems, which was created using the technological base of Russian air defense systems C 300. The Turkish missile defense system created by China will be integrated into the NATO missile defense system.

By the way, the Turks have Russian-made equipment, for example, armed with the Turkish 323 gendarmerie, the Russian BNT 60PB and 535 BTR 80. These were Kornet-E anti-tank missile systems, 8 / 17 Mi helicopters, armored personnel carriers, and even Ankara’s interests in the Antey 2500 long-range air defense system.

Ankara’s priority is to develop its own defense, Turkey has already created a fairly powerful military-industrial complex. By 2023, the Turks intend to completely abandon the import of military products. Special pride for them is their own production of armored vehicles, in particular the promising Turkish tank Altay. All the components and the car itself Turks will assemble themselves. Currently undergoing tests of the prototype, mass production is scheduled for 2016 year.

MULLAM IN KAZARM IS NOT A PLACE

Strange as it may sound, in Turkey the army is a very important political and reformist force opposing the Islamization of the country. Moreover, until 2011, the General Staff had the authority to participate in politics on an equal footing with the government. Lieutenant-General Yevgeny Buzhinsky believes that it is the current Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan, adjusting to the requirements of the European Union, practically removed the military from making political decisions: “Before Erdogan came to power, although officially the head of state was the prime minister and then the president, but in fact the number one figure was the chief of the General Staff.

The military referred to the Turkish Constitution, in which the first President of the Republic of Turkey, the founder of the modern Turkish state, Mustafa Atatürk, wrote that the armed forces are the guarantor of the secular nature of the Turkish state. But it had its drawbacks, because of such a dissonance in power, military coups constantly occurred. However, Erdogan arranged a purge, and the role of the military was significantly reduced. Not everyone is delighted, especially given the creeping Islamization of Turkey. But while the military is not even trying to regain its former powers "
.
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http://www.sovsekretno.ru/articles/id/5240/
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  1. aszzz888
    aszzz888 5 December 2015 07: 48
    +2
    Invest in the technique, when developing and selling "abroad" to such as Turks, self-liquidators. The time has come like now - bang and the technique has stood up forever! wassat
    1. Archon
      Archon 5 December 2015 10: 40
      +7
      then no one wants to buy more equipment and weapons in Russia. And it will hurt the budget of Russia.
      And it was also possible to integrate self-liquidators into your equipment - if the enemy captured the tank, then the tank would self-destruct along with the enemy. But this technique alone will be dangerous and will be afraid to use their own troops.
      1. Evgeniy667b
        Evgeniy667b 5 December 2015 12: 59
        +6
        Holy naivety! Yes, where does the profit ??? Are the lives of Russian soldiers and civilians worthless? What's the point, they sold the S-300 to the Chinese? And here it is, theirs modification, in the hands of the Turks, and also to whom it falls. It’s criminal to sell weapons !!! CRIMINAL !!!
        1. bandabas
          bandabas 5 December 2015 15: 37
          +5
          For people who are now in power, it costs nothing. Only business. Roughly speaking, money. And, glasses, like Ostap Bender, I will not wear. Industry, as it began in the 90s, is collapsing. Soon we will work on a rotational basis throughout Russia.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Amurets
      Amurets 5 December 2015 12: 51
      +1
      Quote: aszzz888
      Invest in the technique, when developing and selling "abroad" to such as Turks, self-liquidators. The time has come like now - bang and the technique has stood up forever! wassat

      We were late with offers. I don’t know how ours are, but abroad we have been practicing bookmarking for a long time.
    3. Vikings
      Vikings 5 December 2015 14: 07
      +1
      Turks are not suckers! And if you think of it, then boldly
      we can assume that when buying our equipment, the Turks
      This factor will be taken into account.
  2. Koshak
    Koshak 5 December 2015 08: 14
    +8
    "RUSSIA FOUNDED ON THE EDGE OF A MILITARY CONFLICT WITH THE SECOND NUMBER OF NATO ARMY"

    The task of politicians is to ensure that neither us nor "them" cross this line stop
    1. Bryanskiy_Volk
      Bryanskiy_Volk 6 December 2015 00: 21
      +1
      In fact, this is the second largest NATO army on the verge of a military conflict with the Russian Federation. It was because of this phrase that the article did not begin to plus, although it is curious in content hi
  3. SPACE
    SPACE 5 December 2015 08: 22
    12
    The combat capability of today's Turkish army is probably the worst in its entire history, if it is the second largest in NATO, what can be said about the rest))) although in modern wars the number of personnel is not the main indicator of the combat-ready and power of the Armed Forces. Everything will be decided by machines. A direct clash of the Turkish army with the Russian, with relatives against the mass suicide of the descendants of the Janissaries, it will look like a remote, brutal, quick and unrequited beating of babies, a fleeting conflict, the course of which can even be assumed, especially with a clear example in the form of the actions of the RF Armed Forces in Syria. .. the first note "before" the strike by Iskander, "re" sea-based cruise missiles, "mi" long-range and front-line aviation, on ground air defense facilities, airfields, military and naval bases and that's it! Disruption of communications, the destruction of military facilities will lead to a very rapid collapse of the combat stability of the military machine of Turkey, even without a ground invasion, which will put before the military and political leadership of Turkey the question of the very existence of the government and the state as a whole and the possibility and advisability of conducting further hostilities. This is where the hot phase of forcing Turkey to peace will end and a different political process will begin with the participation, in addition to the world community, of Kurds, Armenians, Iranians, Iraqis, Syrians, Greeks and other stakeholders in solving the problems and opportunities that have arisen. It should be borne in mind that this plot is only possible if Turkey is the first to aggravate the conflict. And from the point of view of common sense, if they at least minimally understand the possible consequences and risks of their actions, then they will never go to a military confrontation. The fact that they can be pushed and promised support from the United States, Europe, in the form of an opportunity to drain the Turks, destabilize and test the military capabilities of the Russian Federation, looks unlikely.
    Z. s. Turkey has already been demoted, "for the one who resorts to fists becomes a pawn, Kings play politics"
    1. the most important
      the most important 5 December 2015 13: 16
      0
      Quote: SPACE
      ... first note "before" strike by Iskander, "re" sea-based cruise missiles, "mi" long-range and front-line aviation, on ground air defense facilities, airfields, military and naval bases and that's it!

      That's just the notes in the symphony should sound the first few days constantly. After the first missile strike, the Russian Aerospace Forces will clean up the area from the remains of the aviation and navy, as well as check the remains of the storage bases for military equipment, fuel and ammunition. Oil refineries and industry are the goals of the second stage, but they are also very significant. With a massive strike in a week, or maybe much earlier, the army of Turkey will be completely destroyed ... Why did not a week last in Syria? 1. A very limited number of videoconferencing is involved. 2. The destruction of small squads of barmalei and the liberation of the territory takes much longer. But in Turkey there is no need to chase after every soldier. Even the remaining military units after a massive strike will not pose a threat, because lose the opportunity to advance.
    2. alicante11
      alicante11 5 December 2015 13: 49
      11
      Comparing military potential, you do not take into account the strategic position of the parties. We do not have a land border with Turkey. For this reason, we can meet with the Turks at three potential theater of operations.
      The first is the Black Sea. And here nothing good awaits us. Most of the Black Sea Fleet is located off the coast of Syria. Therefore, the remaining forces maximum can provide defense in coastal waters and strike from a distance. Naturally, the Black Sea Fleet will not be able to carry out any landing operation due to the absence of landing ships.
      The second theater is Syria. Even if plans to expand the grouping of our Air Force to 120 vehicles are implemented, it will still not be possible to achieve air supremacy. Although it is quite possible to ensure a solid defense, taking into account the means of air defense of both its own and the Syrian, as well as the effective support of the ground forces. The problem will be just the land component. For obvious reasons, we cannot expand a large group of ground forces in Syria - poor transport capabilities, and if the transportation of troops can still be dealt with, then supply, especially after blocking the straits, will become completely impossible. Do not drag the supply from Murmansk, and even past all NATO bases. Therefore, the land fighting will clearly fall on the shoulders of the Syrians, but the forces of Assad's exhausted army are clearly not enough. Limited contingents of Russian troops, Iranian IRGC and Hezbollah may provide some help, but given the difficulties in supply, it will be impossible to realize the advantages in new weapons.
      The third theater is Armenia, which has a border with Turkey. But there are problems. Armenia has no border with Russia. Georgia obviously will not be very zealous in organizing logistics for the supply and our troops will obviously not miss. True, there is a logistics option through Iran, which, of course, is more profitable. But will the Armenians give permission for military operations from their territory? Not to mention the danger of hitting the back from Azerbaijan.
      So, if in the defensive plan against Turkey our capabilities are quite enough, then the offensive potential is clearly very small. And protracted offensive military operations are completely impossible.
      1. SPACE
        SPACE 5 December 2015 17: 28
        +3
        Quote: alicante11
        Comparing military potential, you do not take into account the strategic position of the parties.

        I just don’t write about them, since there is nothing to consider there, Turkey and Russia do not have land borders. The invasion of the Turkish armed forces in Armenia or Syria is primarily a declaration of war on these countries, which will only aggravate the situation of Turkey. Also, there is no sense invading Turkey, after remotely partially destroyed infrastructure, there will begin the dispersal of our own internal and regional contradictions, which will lead to the result we need ...
        1. alicante11
          alicante11 6 December 2015 09: 52
          0
          after remotely partially destroyed infrastructure, there will begin the dispersal of our own internal and regional contradictions, which will lead to the result we need ...


          Remotely destroy military infrastructure - impossible. NATO did not succeed in Yugoslavia, under much greenhouse conditions. And to smash civilian infrastructure - we're not goblins.

          You can’t count on the collapse of Turkey, because NATO will not allow it, they are unlikely to harness it, but putting everything you need is always welcome.
          1. SPACE
            SPACE 6 December 2015 11: 30
            0
            Quote: alicante11
            Remotely destroy military infrastructure - impossible.

            Precisely what is possible, how much is this a separate issue, in any case in a modern large-scale war, between a state and a state, this will be the main or primary goal, the achievement of which will actually mean victory, which in turn means that the enemy will not be able to resist the level of large-scale without contact warrior and will be forced to go to a lower level, the level of positional defensive local warriors, the outcome of which is already predetermined and where the strategic initiative will be wholly owned lie to the winner and completely depend on his desire, as the United States demonstrated in Iraq and Yugoslavia.
      2. Nirvanko
        Nirvanko 5 December 2015 19: 55
        0
        I will tell you: in case of war, Russia will put forward an ultimatum to Georgia: either the free movement of the army and military cargo or occupation with a change in the current regime. Here you have the theater of operations with Turkey on its border with Armenia.

        Armenia will not mind, believe me.
      3. aksakal
        aksakal 7 December 2015 00: 47
        0
        Quote: alicante11
        Georgia obviously will not be very zealous in organizing logistics for the supply and our troops will obviously not miss. True, there is a logistics option through Iran, which, of course, is more profitable. But will the Armenians give permission for military operations from their territory? Not to mention the danger of hitting the back from Azerbaijan.
        So, if in the defensive plan against Turkey our capabilities are quite enough, then the offensive potential is clearly very small. And protracted offensive military operations are completely impossible.
        - Excuse me, and who will be asking Georgians in such a dangerous situation? 080808 do not want to remember? Whether with joy, with a sour mine - they will let me through as cute ... And the second
        Quote: alicante11
        Iranian IRGC
        - there are actually a lot of them. And Iran does not use them in full force, because fears to inflame the Sunni-Shiite clash. Turkey's invasion changes everything. This is the threat of Iran's complete loss of its influence, this is the loss of Hezbollah ... And then - to repulse the Turkish invasion, what has the Sunnis to do with it? In general, the people against Turkey will be above the roof, a Russian soldier may not be needed, but a lot of good technology will be needed to help the Syrian Kurds-Iranians, a bunch of "Cornets", "Chrysanthemums", short-range air defense systems, MANPADS of the "Verba" type , artillery systems ...
    3. ALEA IACTA EST
      ALEA IACTA EST 5 December 2015 18: 28
      +1
      Isn't it easier to smack "Caliber" at the "Sultan" himself? what
      1. SPACE
        SPACE 5 December 2015 19: 10
        +2
        Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
        Isn't it easier to smack "Caliber" at the "Sultan" himself?

        Not, rude and unaesthetic, this is not our method, but Anglo-American. In the words of Saladin the Wise, the noble and fair do not do this))), it is better as with Hitler.
    4. Sarmatians nearby
      Sarmatians nearby 5 December 2015 20: 23
      +6
      This article talks about the weakness and lack of education of the Turkish army, about our technical superiority, praises always so caress pride and inspire fearlessness, but if you recall, WWII soldiers won sometimes having 4 education classes.
      I believe the Opponent should not be underestimated, the article says that the Turkish army is predominantly a village man, but in our army? at the same time I will report to you these most worthy people. In addition, appropriate tactics can be applied to the corresponding army, for example, tactics of partisan formations scattered over a vast territory of the enemy and neighboring states can be used, in this case the technical advantage is minimized, and nuclear attacks become impossible at all.
      In my subjective opinion, the article is too pathos.
  4. Riv
    Riv 5 December 2015 08: 47
    +5
    The author naively regards the Turkish army as a "thing in itself". But in reality, we will have to fight the entire NATO bloc. Meanwhile, the state of the Russian army can hardly be called satisfactory. In comparison with the Soviet one, it looks, frankly, frail. Well, there have been launches of "Caliber" from the Caspian Sea. 15 volleys? Excellent. But if these missiles were launched by the USSR, there would be an order of magnitude more of them. Was "Armata" shown at the parade? Wonderful. And in the Soviet Union on the same parade from tanks there would be ONLY "Armata".
    In general, about casting - a big question, and besides, all of Europe will have to be cast ...
    1. the most important
      the most important 5 December 2015 13: 23
      -2
      Quote: Riv
      But in reality, you’ll have to fight with the entire NATO bloc.

      Euro NATO will soon gather a coalition for going to the outhouse. And that would not have to fight with them, then in no case can never leave unanswered attacks on Russia, such as the coup and the outfitting of Ukraine, a downed plane or an attack on SU-24. And the faster the answer, the better! And the answer should be much tougher than the action of the adversary.
  5. SPB 1221
    SPB 1221 5 December 2015 08: 50
    0
    "This army cannot be cast with fez"

    No fezkami, missiles with nuclear warheads yes !!!
  6. Nikolay71
    Nikolay71 5 December 2015 08: 55
    +9
    Any opponent must not be underestimated. And then we have a lot of fans to wave sabers, but toss their hats.
    1. Kazakh
      Kazakh 5 December 2015 09: 20
      +3
      Quote: Nikolay71
      And then we have a lot of fans to wave sabers, but toss their hats.

      That is, you can shower us with fez hats with hats? After so many years of plummeting and humiliation, it is not surprising that there were many patriots rejoicing at any success of Russia. Or why hang up our ears and bend over “in front of the second NATO army?” Ah, what are we going to do without Turkish tomatoes? grow.
      1. Riv
        Riv 5 December 2015 12: 13
        +7
        Alright ... There are many idiots among them - that’s the trouble.
        1. sharp-lad
          sharp-lad 6 December 2015 02: 41
          0
          So they will be the first to attack!
  7. yuriy55
    yuriy55 5 December 2015 09: 15
    +5
    The time of battles between crowds of people with pikes and clubs is in the past. In a real war, the winner will be the one who will not only cover the enemy with "hats", but also skillfully resist the "fez" flying in response, as well as "baseball caps" and "hats". Swords, of course, should not be waved, but the Russian soldier should not be considered an enemy force in the Erdogans, as well as being afraid of their number.

    Recall the words of the legendary ancestor and great commander A.V. Suvorov:
    Where there are fewer troops, there are more brave.

    Russian God is great! The French are groaning, the guardsmen are subduing!

    We are Russian and therefore will win.
    soldier
  8. 31rus
    31rus 5 December 2015 09: 57
    +4
    Dear, I’ll repeat it very recklessly to consider the military component of any country, only by counting tanks and planes, it is necessary to consider the entire potential of the country, ask a simple question how much do we beat ISIS-DAISH together with Syria? stretched for years, Turkey is not a pseudo state and assistance, even if we assume that NATO will not intervene, huge assistance will be provided, so you need to cool your heads now, warn in case of a conflict, nuclear weapons will be used, both against one specific country and in case of intervention against the entire NATO block
  9. Dilshat
    Dilshat 5 December 2015 09: 59
    +3
    In addition, much is said about the contract for the purchase of hundreds of fifth-generation American fighters F 35A.-on the one hand there is not only Erdogan sick on the head, on the other hand: they worked together how much Turkey managed to raise the dough at the expense of Russia and lazy tourists, lovers of inclusive.
  10. Foxbed
    Foxbed 5 December 2015 10: 25
    +2
    Interfax
    04:51
    Iraq accuses Turkey of military invasion of its territory
    Iraqi TV channels circulated a statement by the country's Foreign Ministry, which emphasizes that "the Turkish armed forces, which entered the Mosul area, invaded Iraqi territory without our consent and must immediately leave it."
    And earlier ... "DAMASK, 4 December 2015, 10:59 - REGNUM Units of the Turkish army occupied Tal-Ziyab hill, which is located in Syria on November 26. According to the TV channel Lifeneshts, armed military people were crossing the border accompanied by bulldozers.

    Details: https: //regnum.ru/shch/acidients/2027778.html Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to REGNUM IA.


    Well, that's all. When you denounce a hidden aggressor and he has nothing to lose, then he shows his "face" and true intentions. It's time to designate xy from xy at an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council.
  11. moskowit
    moskowit 5 December 2015 11: 18
    +2
    "... On November 24, the Turkish Air Force attacked a Su-24M front-line bomber - in fact, the first armed clash between NATO forces and the Russian army took place ..."


    It is difficult to call this incident an armed conflict. Our plane was not in a position to repel the attack. The attack was vile. Our pilots did not consider the Turkish Air Force aircraft as an enemy ...
  12. aba
    aba 5 December 2015 11: 25
    +3
    in fact, the first armed clash occurred between NATO forces and the Russian army.

    I do not agree with this interpretation, because the clash involves actions on both sides; on our side there was no retaliatory military action. And it is not yet known what the alignment would have been if ours had entered into a clash.
    1. Megatron
      Megatron 5 December 2015 11: 34
      -4
      I believe that it was necessary to strike at the airfield where this plane was based on the Iskander and Caliber, otherwise they are our plane, and we give them tomatoes, even without oranges.
      1. andrew-z
        andrew-z 5 December 2015 11: 55
        +6
        so they will answer ATACMS and J600T on bases in Syria and then what?
        1. Megatron
          Megatron 5 December 2015 20: 10
          0
          Well, yes, it's easier to keep tourists out.
  13. avva2012
    avva2012 5 December 2015 12: 10
    -2
    I read, thought, and made certain conclusions. What happens if war happens between Turkey and Russia? It turns out that Turkey will be very bad. In my opinion, it doesn't matter how many infantry, tanks, artillery there are in a given country. If they declare war on us, then our hands will be free. The fact is that Turkey is a highly developed country. There are chemical, steel, and other enterprises there. What is a man-made disaster? Let's say, the destruction of one chemical. factories or enterprises for the production of fertilizers? How will it look like? Who said that in a real conflict, they can't get hurt? In Syria, we use precision weapons, including to prevent civilians from getting hurt. Who will count civilians if there is a full-scale war? How many megatons, interestingly, can be loaded in the form of high-explosive fragmentation bombs into one White Swan or TU-95? How can the Turks get them? Further, they write that the Turks have a fairly large fleet. So what? Are we going to fight them like in Sinop? The use of aircraft, coastal artillery, and tactical YAZ, low power, will put an end to the entire armada. How can the Turks really get us? What are their carriers, how is the air defense developed? And we have? Perhaps, of course, Crimea will suffer, due to the fact that there was little time for the deployment of our forces on the peninsula. Yes, and even then, not a fact. The conclusion is, I doubt that the NATO countries and the United States will start a full-scale nuclear war because of Turkey. After the first carpet bombing and tactical nuclear weapons, they will sit down at the negotiating table and negotiate. However, already without Turkey. It seems to me that both Turkey and the United States know about this. So that there is a war of nerves. Whoever has harder testicles will win.
    1. the most important
      the most important 5 December 2015 13: 28
      0
      Quote: avva2012
      Perhaps, of course, Crimea will suffer, due to the fact that there was little time for the deployment of our forces on the peninsula. Yes, and that is not a fact.

      It will be a battle of a bear and a lap-dog ...
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 5 December 2015 13: 30
        +1
        Well, and I'm about the same.
        1. silver_roman
          silver_roman 6 December 2015 01: 20
          0
          it will not be a 1 on 1 battle. If a war begins with Turkey, then it will not be a lightning fast with Georgia. Based even on remoteness, i.e. aviation will have to act.
          I’m just sure that if this starts, then the Donbass and Transnistria, somewhere in Karabakh, will flare up, and the Japanese can throw something for example.
          We definitely do not need a war, and the point is not in the strength and proof of its existence or superiority.
          as I wrote earlier, a clear instant answer was needed, but so that everyone knew who the culprit was, but did not have clear evidence. Those. destruction of a chemical plant or some large enterprise at night. the caliber has arrived, target designation has failed, the bears in our service are poorly trained, but we are the 3rd country in the world — regional, it happens that we missed. something like this. And better on 2 objects at once. All the same, sanctions against us are being introduced as they can, all the same, they can tear down sneakers as they can, but they won’t open the war while there is nuclear weapons.
  14. andrew-z
    andrew-z 5 December 2015 12: 27
    +5
    Quote: avva2012
    How many megatons, interestingly, can be loaded in the form of high-explosive fragmentation bombs into one White Swan or TU-95?

    and after that, are you going to draw any conclusions?
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 5 December 2015 12: 31
      -1
      and after that, are you going to draw any conclusions?
      The question was asked rhetorically. I am not an expert. Academy of General Staff of the Russian Federation, did not finish. I draw conclusions Delitan, I do not insist on my opinion, of course.
      1. IAlex
        IAlex 5 December 2015 14: 29
        +2
        Have you seen Bondarev from the Air Force? He graduated from the Academy of Civil Aviation of the General Staff of the Russian Federation, as a result, it didn’t help him much and he didn’t understand what he was saying - some kind of weak articulate sounds, some kind of nonsense and hellish stuff in the Air Force that ... T. who and where else amateurs is a moot point ...
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 5 December 2015 16: 21
          +1
          Have you seen Bondarev from the Air Force? This is our military trick. Bondarev, Serdyukov. And when the "Calibers" began to fly, NATO's jaw dropped.
  15. andrew-z
    andrew-z 5 December 2015 12: 57
    +5
    For all your questions, you can give the same "amateurish" answers smile
    1. There will be no war, no one will declare it. Russia she extremely not beneficial for political, economic and other reasons
    2. carpet bombing of the infrastructure is possible only if there is no air defense or aviation (Turkey has almost no air defense but the Air Force has about 200 F-16s) This is enough to create unacceptable losses for the attacker.
    3. The Turkish fleet will not operate off the coast of Russia (why should it go there?) But will "wait" for you on its shores
    4. the strength of Turkey - its ground forces, very numerous and insensitive to losses (and you can't win a war without capturing territories) Did you see the map? Can you imagine how you can "occupy" the territory of 80 million of the country and even with a difficult terrain.
    5. you exactly (Absolutely!) sure that NATO will not intervene? especially after applying yao?
    6. about 95 MT of bombs breaks into the Tu-0,00001 smile
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 5 December 2015 13: 29
      +2
      almost no air defense in Turkey They are absolutely right. At what altitude the "swans" fly, here and there. How many strategic bombers are there in Russia? You can look in the internet, but let's not find fault, not a little. At the expense of seizing territory. It seems to me that this is a concept of the last century. Yugoslavia was bombed, torn to pieces, but there was no classical occupation, as it was in the Second World War. So that there will be no seizure of territory. Why, she is needed. Remember what happened in Iraq after the air raids on Hussein's oil refineries? Europe was screaming about environmental disaster. The Turkish fleet near their shores will be covered, because it poses a real danger to the Southern Federal District of Russia. I apologize for answering out of order, but I want to reveal the "secret" that a successful war is very beneficial to any state. And, in the case of Turkey, everything goes to that. Well, and finally, for sweets. Are you sure (absolutely sure!) sure that NATO will not intervene? especially after applying yao? I don’t know, but there is certainty. Today, they perfectly understand that there is no protection against nuclear weapons. All of their missile defense, similar to the SDI, from the time of Reagan. If they understand that we will not stop at anything, then they will surrender, not going anywhere. If you think that NATO will risk attacking with conventional weapons, then hardly. Russia, as yet, is a powerful industrial power. Will cover the whole of Europe. Chernobyl, remember?
      1. andrew-z
        andrew-z 5 December 2015 16: 41
        -1
        1. You have not said what you will do with two hundred modern F-16s, but already in words bombed all of Turkey
        2. They also did not say what you are going to "cover" the Turkish fleet (and it is stronger than the Russian Black Sea Fleet)
        3. try to explain this quote
        "On the territory of the Turkish state there are about 70 military facilities used by the North Atlantic Alliance. Among them is the Incirlik air base with a storage of American tactical atomic weapons located near Adana, an air monitoring center near Diyarbakir, deployed on the Charshak hill within the framework of the European missile defense concept. radar station AN / TPY-2, etc. All this is integrated into the general Turkish military infrastructure. For example, on the same "Incirlik" sits not only the five thousandth American contingent and the 39th air wing of the US Air Force, but also the 10th air wing Turkish Air Force In other words, almost any large-scale strike on Turkey's territory is likely to fall on a NATO facility as well, with all the ensuing consequences.
        What will you do?
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 5 December 2015 18: 37
          -3
          What will be done with 2 hundred F-16s, I don't know. Can you imagine that this "great" fleet, all at the same time, takes off to intercept our long-range bombers? And, as with the SU-24, does it destroy all of them? It seems to me that they will be partially covered at airfields, partially by escort fighters. Incirlik Air Base, if you do not touch it, then it will continue to stand. No one will ever go to a full-fledged nuclear conflict! Why the USA, the answer of the NWF from Russia, because of Turkey? And finally, the Turkish fleet. When suppressing enemy air defenses, there may be different options. Cruise missiles, for example. Bombers. TNW, let’s go. All my fantasies, in this case, are based on the fact that Turkey will be an aggressor. And, therefore, TNW, no one is permissible, will condemn us.
          1. DOMINO100
            DOMINO100 5 December 2015 20: 00
            +2
            against a non-nuclear country according to international laws, nuclear weapons cannot be used !!! therefore, Israel is hiding what it has. something like that. correct if you made a mistake.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 5 December 2015 20: 58
              0
              Perhaps they’ll apply an article on self-defense. I don’t know, but the world has already changed.
        2. Nirvanko
          Nirvanko 5 December 2015 20: 02
          0
          It’s more correct to say what this 5 thousandth contingent will do.

          What will happen? The US will strike a nuclear strike at Russia - I don’t think that they are already suicides like that. Fit into the war for the Turks? Well, let them try. Or do you think that the Greeks with the Bulgarians who are part of NATO are burning to die for the Turks?

          Or maybe the Balts want to step on Leningrad and the Poles on Belarus and get nuclear weapons on the scoreboard? Well, do not doubt that in such circumstances Russia will not hesitate to apply it - this is spelled out in its military doctrine. And then we'll see who else in NATO wants to sign up for the Turks.
    2. the most important
      the most important 5 December 2015 13: 31
      +3
      Quote: andrew-z
      4. the strength of Turkey - its ground forces, very numerous and insensitive to losses (and the war can not be won without the seizure of territories)

      And why do we need territory ??? After a massive blow, let the Kurds arrange Kurdistan there.
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 5 December 2015 14: 04
        +1
        In Kurds, there are no decontaminants to remove various chemical contaminants. Therefore, they will remain in their territories.
      2. andrew-z
        andrew-z 5 December 2015 16: 42
        0
        massive blow what?
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 5 December 2015 18: 39
          +1
          High-explosive fragmentation bombs, for example. Well, there they talk about vacuum bombs. Stories about the preservation of the civilian population, as in Syria, will not be.
  16. IAlex
    IAlex 5 December 2015 14: 06
    +1
    Direct analogue of the army of the Russian Federation. The same rarity and conscripts from the village. The only difference is the amount of heritage left from the USSR. I don’t know how it is in Turkey with the generals with towers, but in Russia everything is obviously sad, because to send an unaccompanied bomber on a mission, and not even hang air-to-air missiles accompanying fighters, this is the height of ideotism ... T. to all indirect urapatriots who shout you need to bring down Turkey, hold the flag in your hands, but not for someone else’s skin, show your urapatriotism and move to Syria as volunteers, where you can personally realize your impulse and, by personal example, show the Turks and everyone else how to act, and release a soft and warm sofa for others at the same time ...
  17. lucdrakon2015
    lucdrakon2015 5 December 2015 14: 21
    +2
    ..... respect the enemy ...))) ... especially cheers patriots ....)))
  18. unknown
    unknown 5 December 2015 15: 01
    -7
    Do not forget that Turkey became an enemy not so long ago. From the palace coups of Sophia and her son, whom many call "Peter the Great".
    The great thing is that he destroyed everything primordial, including the reckoning, and brought everything artificial, foreign, Jewish (European).
    Prior to this, both Russia and the Ottoman Empire fought together with the country of Jews - Europe.
    Together, since they were the heirs of the great state of the Ancient World-Byzantium.
    The only real, in contrast to the mythical Rome and Greece.
    The so-called Turkish conquest of Byzantium is just a provincial civil war.
    And the emblem and flag of the Turks are Byzantine. Which invaders accept the coats of arms and flags of the conquered?
    None. And the heirs, yes.
    Turkey has simply gone astray. Must be returned. Long work. Mostly diplomatic. Erdogans come and go. But the Turkish military remains.
    1. dudinets
      dudinets 5 December 2015 16: 04
      +3
      actually, Peter the Great was Sofya’s brother. everything else that you said is also from the category of historically similar schizophrenia. minus from me.
    2. ALEA IACTA EST
      ALEA IACTA EST 5 December 2015 18: 38
      0
      And the ancient Polynesians drove the Ukrov tribes from northern Portugal to the lower reaches of the Dnieper ... laughing
  19. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 5 December 2015 15: 47
    +2
    Erdogan, having engaged in the Islamization of Turkey - greatly "thinned" the army's officers - and did not generate much love for himself in this army. And further. Do not forget that the gendarme corps is part of the army! And which of the gendarmes are soldiers? Those. Out of 550 thousand of the population, about 150 thousand are NOT SOLDIERS!
    1. Dad Uassia
      Dad Uassia 5 December 2015 20: 07
      0
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Erdogan, having engaged in the Islamization of Turkey - greatly "thinned" the army's officers - and did not generate much love for himself in this army. And further. Do not forget that the gendarme corps is part of the army! And which of the gendarmes are soldiers? Those. Out of 550 thousand of the population, about 150 thousand are NOT SOLDIERS!

      One should not forget that about 300.000 well-trained soldiers in reserve were also reduced.
  20. unknown
    unknown 5 December 2015 17: 19
    -1
    In fact, even in traditional history, there is a lot of evidence of the so-called substitution of the king.
    The tsar was uneducated, until the end of his life did not learn to speak Russian, mastered the art of boarding, was sick with tropical fever.

    Therefore, new versions of the so-called Peter reign appeared. There are several of them. As a professional historian, I am of the opinion of Alexander Kassenko that the so-called Peter is the son of Sophia and Friedrich Augustus (the future Prussian), and the first Romanov. This version is the most consistent.

    One should not think that all humanitarians are stupid people, but all historians are liars. Of course, many will not abandon the false theories: "But what about titles, positions, tons of scientific (waste paper), honor and respect."
    But, for example, Professor Vladlen Sirotkin openly said that the glorified Decembrist uprising is an ordinary guards palace coup.
    In history as a science, there is a whole area called historiography. Within the framework of this discipline, the whole variety of opinions, currents and directions is studied.
    And in psychology, there is the term reagent thinking. This is the inability of the individual to change his point of view even despite the obvious facts. You can’t fight this. It is innate.
  21. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 5 December 2015 18: 24
    +1
    What prevents these "progressive" warriors from getting rid of Erdogan? Are there really no Stauffenbergs among them?
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 5 December 2015 18: 30
      +3
      Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
      What prevents these "progressive" warriors from getting rid of Erdogan?

      Someone Delyagin here recently expressed the opinion that the downed SU-24 is precisely the Erdogan setup, organized by the Turkish military under the leadership and guidance of the United States.

      Despite my extremely skeptical attitude towards Delyagin - the version, IMHO, is quite suitable.
  22. DOMINO100
    DOMINO100 5 December 2015 19: 22
    +1
    in the article there’s no word that Russia is also arming them! Well, armed up to this point! the Turks had weapons no worse than, for example, France or Spain. Israel also sold first-class equipment to them.
  23. DOMINO100
    DOMINO100 5 December 2015 19: 53
    0
    How to check who exactly puts the cons? here it is interesting to me that I wrote the wrong one that they slapped me a minus? justify who put it !!!
  24. Stilet
    Stilet 5 December 2015 20: 43
    +2
    Along the perimeter of the Turkish border, there are only "friends" - Greeks, Kurds, Armenians, Cypriots, Iraqis and now Syrians. If we are to conduct any actions, then to conduct them together. All have general staffs. It will be necessary to agree! bully
    1. andrew-z
      andrew-z 5 December 2015 20: 58
      -1
      this will not help and it is unlikely that Turkey will have enough strength for them:
      Greeks head to head in economic problems
      Kurds are busy with Isil
      Syrians ... are those 15% who are for Assad? Seriously?
      Armenians and Cypriots - the cat wept
      who fight then?
      1. Things
        Things 6 December 2015 20: 05
        +1
        Quote: andrew-z
        this will not help and it is unlikely that Turkey will have enough strength for them:
        Kurds are busy with Isil

        If the Kurds help the appropriate weapons / equipment, then they will create a pain in the neck for the Turks
      2. aksakal
        aksakal 7 December 2015 00: 37
        -1
        Quote: andrew-z
        Irians ... are those 15% who are for Assad? Seriously?
        - 15% is when the civil war. And when is the foreign invasion? Especially from the side of the Turks ... Or have the Syrians already forgotten how sweet under the Turkish yoke? Um, Armenians and Pontic Greeks remember, Serbs and Bulgarians startle, but Syrians do not remember? Actually, this is me because of the potential consolidation of the Syrians precisely because of the Turkish invasion ... Assad is good or bad - you need to figure it out later, after repelling the invasion ... I think the Syrians understand this, do not consider them more stupid than yourself ...
        Why don't you consider Iranians? The fall of Syria means the complete collapse of Iran in the Middle East, all the influence is down the drain, the complete death of Hezbollah ... Meanwhile, Iran is no worse in manpower than Turkey, and in terms of the quality of weapons, I would not say that right there the abyss is inferior ...
        In general, in terms of manpower, Turkey and without Russia there is someone to resist - and to plant good weapons on the Syrian-Iranian-Kurds - so Turkey without a Russian soldier will already be problematic ... Well, as long as the Turks have problems with them, the Russians can use missiles - the same "Iskander" (NON-PORTABLE) and "Caliber" will crumble all that is important that the Turks have for conducting combat operations.
        In response, attacks by Turks in Russia with airplanes and short-range OTRKs will reflect good air defense, which Russia has two heads better than Turkish. In short, it’s better for the Turks not to twitch - good advice, really, I can’t advise them anything better.
    2. avva2012
      avva2012 5 December 2015 21: 02
      0
      Turkey has one friend of the United States. I would like to ask, "God, for what?"
  25. Jozhkin Cat
    Jozhkin Cat 5 December 2015 20: 47
    +1
    they have weak air defense, it's good lol
    1. andrew-z
      andrew-z 5 December 2015 21: 01
      +1
      and all NATO countries have weak air defense, their functions are assigned to the Air Force
      1. anfil
        anfil 5 December 2015 21: 50
        +3
        Yesterday's photo, in which, during the passage through the Bosphorus in the direction of Syria, the Russian large landing craft "Caesar Kunikov" was seen a soldier looking through the "telescope" looking out for Turkish aircraft.

        1. ammunition
          ammunition 6 December 2015 03: 54
          0
          Here is a more detailed photo. smile
          It seems that throughout the army and the fleet a fierce scolding passed from the very top. So they put a sailor .. in case of provocation .. shahids with light-engine aircraft .. or something like that.
          1. DOMINO100
            DOMINO100 7 December 2015 22: 57
            +1
            clothes like igilovets))))
  26. k_ply
    k_ply 5 December 2015 21: 00
    +2
    Quote: SPACE
    The direct clash of the Turkish army with the Russian, akin to the mass suicide of the descendants of the Janissaries, it will look like a remote, brutal, quick and unrequited beating of babies ...

    And without CD and long-range aviation so-called. "baby" is capable of snapping painfully ...
    241 F-16C / D Block 50 (World Air Forces 2015). The combat radius of the F-16C Block 50 is 1565km, with two 2000lb (907kg) UAB JDAM GBU-31 (Mk.84 aerial bombs), or with four 1000lb UAB JDAM GBU-32 or JSOW AGM-154 (Mk bombs. 83). UAB data are in service with Turkey.
    About 100 OTR J-600T Yıldırım (Thunderbolt), Yıldırım I - 150 km, Yıldırım II - 300 km, Yıldırım III - 900 km, number of launchers unknown:
    http://www.kjclub.com/UploadFile/exc_board_53/2009/04/26/yildirim1706.jpg
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-600T_Y%C4%B1ld%C4%B1r%C4%B1m
    120 OTR ATACAMS MGM-140 for firing from MLRS MLRS M270 (12) with a firing range of 300 km (Iskander-M - 500 km).
    1. andrew-z
      andrew-z 5 December 2015 21: 02
      0
      Yıldırım III no, they are in development
  27. Orionvit
    Orionvit 6 December 2015 01: 54
    0
    Quote: Amurets
    Quote: aszzz888
    Invest in the technique, when developing and selling "abroad" to such as Turks, self-liquidators. The time has come like now - bang and the technique has stood up forever! wassat

    We were late with offers. I don’t know how ours are, but abroad we have been practicing bookmarking for a long time.

    So it was in 1991, (a desert storm), when all the radars of French production were together disconnected from Iraq by a satellite signal. And the mattresses flew to bomb Iraq, as to their home.
  28. guzik007
    guzik007 6 December 2015 08: 02
    -1
    No need to panic. The first sign of the upcoming hostilities will be mass deportation, or isolation in the camps of the Turkish builders. I don’t see yet, they freely go to our shops, walk in their own way. They don’t strain.
    In the event of hostilities, in my opinion, there will be no massive clashes, such as army against army. There will be targeted elimination of the General Staff, central command posts, logistics centers, key air bases and military depots, and not even weapons of mass destruction. This will be enough to paralyze and wreak havoc in the life of a country with such a crowded population. There will be a lot of screeching, stench and drooling in the information field, but there will be no main response. NATO will certainly not fit in, mentally imagining the whistle of "Iskander" over their cozy cities.
    By the way, I think that the Kaliningrad deployment iskanders will not be involved, they have their own tasks to graze Europe.
  29. Things
    Things 6 December 2015 20: 01
    0
    Quote: andrew-z
    You haven’t said what you’ll do with two hundred modern F-16s,
    They also didn’t say what were going to cover the Turkish fleet.

    Let me make an assumption (inquire), and if airdromes, ports (naval bases, ship parking) are destroyed as one of the primary goals in the event of war ?! repeat

    Surely in the General Staff of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (the USSR) at one time took into account the fact that the Black Sea neighbor with its powerful fleet will not always "sit on the priest" ...
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. andrew-z
    andrew-z 7 December 2015 01: 50
    +1
    Quote: Asiat
    Let me make an assumption (inquire), and if airdromes, ports (naval bases, ship parking) are destroyed as one of the primary goals in the event of war ?!


    and again the question - what ??
  33. Things
    Things 7 December 2015 12: 00
    0
    Quote: andrew-z

    and again the question is - than??

    Strategic aviation missiles, the same ship calibers, Iskander (if you put them there in case of war planning) from Syria and Crimea it is perfectly possible to chop ports and airbases and there is no opposition to Iskander missiles not only in Turkey, but throughout NATO!
    If I’m not mistaken, then Iskander-K has a range of 500 and 2000 km, it’s quite enough isn't it?
    At worst, no one canceled the presence in the Navy of the Russian Federation and the Russian Ministry of Defense and the high combat effectiveness of saboteurs who were trained and trained, including for sabotage in the rear and at strategic enemy targets, aren't they?
    1. andrew-z
      andrew-z 7 December 2015 19: 10
      +4
      The effectiveness of the warhead of a cruise missile Caliber or Iskander is equal to an air bomb weighing 500 kg.
      For the destruction of at least one air base or home port, dozens, and sometimes hundreds, of hits are needed. Trite is not enough missiles.
      Part of the cruise missiles will be shot down by fighters.
      Iskanders from Crimea barely reach only part of the coast of Turkey (the one that fits into a range of 500 km)
      Shooting them from Syria will cause a powerful "response" with their tactical missiles at the airfields where the RF Air Force is sitting, and possibly a land operation, which there will be nothing to fend off with cash forces there (it will not work out quickly - the straits will be closed)

      Turkey also has special forces, with real combat experience. Structure.
      1. NE - four commando brigades, mountain commando brigade, two separate commando regiments, search and rescue unit.
      2. Air Force - SSpN groups for search and rescue of crews of aviation equipment shot down behind enemy lines and two air squadrons of transfer of special units.
      3. Navy - special forces SAT (combat swimmers-saboteurs) and SAS (combat swimmers defense).
      4. Gendarme troops - gendarme commando brigade and tactical gendarme regiment commando.
      Their total number is about 50 thousand people. Do you think they will let you rummage around the rear with impunity?
      There is no common land border - all casting by sea or by air is (risky) and you won’t throw much.
      Everywhere is a dead end)
      1. DOMINO100
        DOMINO100 7 December 2015 23: 03
        +2
        Turks are thoroughly prepared and do not need this hatred! if they were weak, then Russian experts would have written like that! they just say that if there had been a war with Turkey, the result is still not clear !!! Turkey is not Georgia! didn’t it occur to you that the United States wants to face Turkey and why? Russia will be completely bleed of war not only by manpower but also especially economically. And then it will be easier for amers to dictate their conditions.
        1. Things
          Things 7 December 2015 23: 51
          -2
          Quote: DOMINO100
          Turks thoroughly prepared Russia will be completely bled of war not only by manpower

          Prepared for what - for a war with a nuclear power ?!
          If the war does not (God forbid), and only the Turks can start it, then in accordance with the doctrine of the Russian Federation they will use nuclear weapons and no ground (naval) military operations will be needed:
          "27. The Russian Federation reserves the right to
          use nuclear weapons
          in response to use against her and
          (or) its allies nuclear and other types of weapons of mass
          defeat as well as in case of aggression against the Russian
          Conventions with conventional weapons when at risk
          posed the very existence of the state.

          The decision to use nuclear weapons is made by the President of the Russian Federation "

          The Turks probably know this and they don’t (at least the military leadership), even if NATO wants to join (support) Turkey, they will not have time in common, and it is unlikely that such an option would suit the Turks.
  34. Things
    Things 7 December 2015 23: 32
    -1
    Quote: andrew-z

    Turkey also has special forces, with real combat experience.

    The one that the Americans and NATO trained (and train), according to their programs / standards ?!
    "The training of the Turkish Special Operations Forces personnel is carried out according to charters and instructions based on similar documents of the US Army. The combat training program was developed in accordance with the plans of the Allied Command command and the recommendations of the joint US military mission in Ankara. The operational and tactical standards of the units and formations of the special operations of the Turkish army also comply with the standards of the American similar units and formations."
    Surely the guys in the Turkish special equipment are serious, but I remember that the Americans and NATOers also trained Georgians and Ukrainians ... winked
    Yes, and the teachers themselves have special forces experience and successful operations mainly only on paper and in propaganda appear, but in practice ...
    Only one mediocre operation of super special forces Delta - "Eagle Claw" is worth something!
    1. andrew-z
      andrew-z 8 December 2015 00: 11
      +2
      Congratulations Things , in words you already won. They killed 400 thousand armies of the Turks, sank all their ships and shot down all the planes. Now convince Turkey of this.
      You can wipe yourself with that piece of paper about "right". NATO and, in general, all countries with nuclear weapons (and also for the protection of themselves and their allies) have the right to use nuclear weapons. Or do you think that for this they need a "certificate" and permission from Russia?
      Russia also knows this and is unlikely to be satisfied with such an option.
  35. Things
    Things 8 December 2015 10: 55
    0
    Quote: andrew-z
    Now convince Turkey of this.

    Why the hell do I need this ?!
    They were awesomely convinced ( lol ): P. Rumyantsev, A. Suvorov, Count Orlov, F. Ushakov and other worthy people.
    And you can continue to convince everyone in accordance with your point of view. Good luck!
    I will remain in my opinion hi

    PSThe devil is not so terrible as he is painted.
  36. Seneca
    Seneca 19 December 2015 00: 36
    +1
    Quote: andrew-z
    Congratulations Things , in words you already won. They killed 400 thousand armies of the Turks, sank all their ships and shot down all the planes. Now convince Turkey of this.
    You can wipe yourself with that piece of paper about "right". NATO and, in general, all countries with nuclear weapons (and also for the protection of themselves and their allies) have the right to use nuclear weapons. Or do you think that for this they need a "certificate" and permission from Russia?
    Russia also knows this and is unlikely to be satisfied with such an option.

    Always these "eagles" lose sight of the fact that warheads fly in both directions. And that the same "eagles" are enough for all our potential opponents. And banter, for example, over the Europeans about their unwillingness for war and fear of even one nuclear warhead in the most remote town, is just infuriating. That is, we have to sneeze at our losses and nuclear mushrooms in the cities .. so what?
  37. Things
    Things 25 December 2015 17: 12
    0
    How are the "great" Ottomans doing there ?!
    I heard that S. Bagdasarov informed about the existing and emerging problems among the Turks with Kurds.
    In particular, in some of the districts (cities), where Kurds predominate, the Turks were piled robustly, and even "politely" were escorted out of the city with tomatoes!
    It is unlikely that Bagdasarov will give out aloud unverified or inaccurate information ...
    For some reason, the Germans removed their air defense systems from Turkey, following the Americans who evacuated the planes what
  38. Things
    Things 26 December 2015 00: 06
    0
    And here is the very city where the Kurds "politely" see off the Turks: