Military Review

Bosphorus answer?

133
Rumor has it that Turkey creates some obstacles for Russian ships in the Black Sea. The media writes about “submarines”, which turn out to be “accidental” in the same place where ships pass by the Black Sea straits, or else “follow” the cruiser “Moscow” off the coast of Syria. A whole crowd of experts rushed to talk about Ankara’s “sea” response to the Russian economic measures, introduced by Putin’s decree of November 28. However, in reality, Russian warships have no problems with the passage of the Bosphorus and Dardanelles.




December 1 morning in the newspaper "Sight" there was a message about the difficulties with the passage of the Bosphorus. The publication referred to a number of sources.

According to the online tracking system for moving ships, 29 in November, Russian ships moved in zigzags and circles, long awaiting permission to enter the strait. The lines of movement of the courts of other countries on that day did not differ. The vessel "Bratsk" was waiting for permission from 10.00 to 19.00, "Volgobalt" - from 03.00 to 17.00. This information came from Center for Transport Strategies (Ukraine).

Site I Haberler.co wrote that the transport of the Russian Navy "Yauza" during the passage of the Dardanelles strait met the Turkish submarine. It was the morning of November 30 in Chenakkale. As evidence, the site led video and photos.

These publications, we add from ourselves, for other "analysts" have become an occasion to develop a "theme." Speculation of bloggers and newspaper reporters appeared in the network, who announced that Turkey was going to put sticks to Russia and even completely block the straits, thus responding to the "sanctions" of Moscow. The Western media did not remain silent either - in fact, the commotion often begins with western publications. And there they discussed the “incident” with the “Yauza”, which the Turkish submarine allegedly “met” on purpose. It’s not worth talking about works about “circles” and “zigzags” borrowed from a Ukrainian source.

December 1 Online RIA News" A note appeared in which the words of a military diplomatic source were cited. He told the agency that the ships of the Russian Navy have no problems with the passage of the Bosphorus and Dardanelles.

“There are currently no problems with the passage of the Black Sea straits by Russian ships, although it is quite normal that some ships are waiting to pass through the strait due to its workload or natural disasters that impede navigation,” the source said.

He recalled that the Turkish authorities sometimes close the straits because of fog. It also happens that because of the congestion of ships in the pouring zone, movement is opened first in one direction and then in the other.

"As for the Turkish submarine, there is nothing extraordinary in the fact that she met with our transport - these boats regularly pass the strait in both directions, just like the rest of the Turkish Navy ships," said an agency source.

As noted by "Russian newspaper", November 28, Russian Presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov called the possibility of Turkey blocking the Black Sea straits for Russian ships as an apocalyptic scenario.

As for the views of the military, the generals did not consider it necessary even to comment on a meeting in the Dardanelles of military transport with a Turkish submarine. Informed sources of the Rossiyskaya Gazeta to the Ministry of Defense claim that there was no incident in the strait. The ship went under its own power, and the boat its own. Moreover, the mentioned “Yauzu” in the strait was accompanied by a boat of the coast guard of Turkey, in full accordance with international protocols.

Known and the comment of the representative of the USA in NATO.

Turkey will comply with international law and will not close the passage of Russian military and civilian ships through the Black Sea straits. About this November 30 RBC said the US envoy to NATO Douglas Lute.

Turkey observes the Convention in Montreux 1936 of the year, guaranteeing easy passage through the straits of all ships, said Douglas Lut, during a teleconference. The RBC correspondent asked him about the possibility of closing the Bosporus and the Dardanelles for the passage of Russian warships (in the event that Turkey considers itself to be under threat of military danger), and Ljut answered that he sees no reason for this.

“So far I have not seen any signs that Turkey intends to restrict navigation through the straits in any way,” the agency quotes the permanent representative. “For decades, Turkey has taken very seriously its international obligations as set forth in the Montreux Convention. I believe that the situation will not change. ”

Also known is the comment of the former chief of the General Staff of the Russian Navy and the commander of the Black Sea fleet Admiral Victor Kravchenko. He said RIA News"that Turkey will not be able to block the Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits for Russian ships.

“Turkey will not be able to close the Black Sea straits for Russian ships and ships bound for Syria - this will be a violation of international law and the Montreux Convention in particular, and after all, it was signed by the majority of the world’s states at that time period,” the expert noted.

Kravchenko recalled that during the Second World War, Turkey, despite the pressure of Germany, was neutral and did not close the Bosporus and the Dardanelles.

Nevertheless, there are opinions about the likely involvement of the Turkish authorities to the "cavils" concerning the Russian courts.

Mikhail Voitenko, a maritime expert, editor-in-chief of the Maritime Bulletin, said "Russian newspaper"that some of the difficulties encountered by the Russian courts are most likely a warning. They represent "such a subtle hint from Turkey on the possible consequences of further deterioration in relations between Turkey and Russia."

True, "legally the Turks do not violate anything." The Ship Control Center in the Bosphorus Strait completely controls the shipping traffic. “If this center tells a ship that has come from the Black Sea, stand and wait until we let you through, then the ship will stand and wait,” said the expert. “And it will not go anywhere, since it has no right to go to the Bosphorus without the permission of this traffic control ...” Turkish authorities will say that they have nothing to do with: the Traffic Control Center has its own requirements for the safety of navigation. “To prove that this is not true and that it is biased, it will take a lot of time,” said Voitenko.

Chairman of the Fleet Support Movement, captain of the 1 rank Mikhail Nenashev told the newspaper "Sight"that "in the future, the Turkish authorities can use the Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits in confrontation with Russia under the guise of regulating traffic congestion in them."

He noted that similar situations had already arisen: Turkey, for example, stated that a special displacement tanker passes through the strait, one must stand and wait, but time passes, but there is no tanker. “It becomes immediately clear that this is a far-fetched reason to put obstacles in the way of our shipping,” the expert believes.

According to him, the Turks stopped the Russian ships under false pretenses both during the period of tense relations and in the epoch of deterioration of relations between Moscow and Washington, when the cold war between the USA and the USSR was going on. At the same time, the newspaper's interlocutor is sure that “the Turks have not put obstacles in the way of the Americans over the past 70 years”.

Nenashev is convinced that Turkey seeks to “engage the naval forces in this confrontation, which is formed through their fault, because they want to show their teeth, including with the help of the sea potential”.

So, the Russian Defense Ministry, judging by the data of the RG, claims that there were no incidents in the strait, and the coast guard of Turkey accompanied the Yauzu. In addition, a military diplomatic source told RIA "News"That the ships of the Russian Navy have no problems with the passage of the Bosphorus and Dardanelles.

Known and the comment of the representative of the USA in NATO. As US Permanent Representative to NATO Douglas Lute said, Turkey will comply with international law and will not close the passage of Russian military and civilian ships through the Black Sea straits.

Finally, in conclusion, the Turks now have no reason to aggravate the already tense relations with Russia.

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
133 comments
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  1. horoh
    horoh 3 December 2015 07: 05
    +9
    Yes, it seems, while our ships calmly pass the straits. Cho will be further, see.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 3 December 2015 07: 13
      13
      Finally, we add in conclusion, the Turks now have no reason to aggravate already tense relations with Russia
      Unfortunately, the Turks and the Erdogan clan are not the same thing, as we see from history, governments do not always reckon with their own people. Although the Turks, in principle, have never been friends.
      1. sa-zz
        sa-zz 3 December 2015 07: 23
        11
        The author, as always, is a plus. Briefly and clearly.
        Confirmed confidence.
        1. Mitek
          Mitek 3 December 2015 08: 16
          11
          Quote: sa-zz
          The author, as always, is a plus. Briefly and clearly.
          Confirmed confidence.

          You are lucky. You have confidence. And I don’t have one. At least it’s stupid to be guided by logic and common sense in this situation, since if you follow them initially, then the Turks had to build a pipe, and certainly not to shoot down our plane.
          1. Wellych
            Wellych 3 December 2015 08: 57
            +5
            It is at least silly to be guided by logic and common sense in this situation
            oh dear, what's such common sense? Salvage from stolen oil goes directly to the family, while the discount for gas and transit money goes to the country. What is gesheft here?
            1. _Vladislav_
              _Vladislav_ 3 December 2015 10: 22
              +1
              Quote: Andrey Yurievich
              Unfortunately, the Turks and the Erdogan clan are not the same thing, as we see from history, governments do not always reckon with their own people. Although the Turks, in principle, have never been friends.

              I agree with you. Even if Turkey experiences economic difficulties, the Erdogan family will not have such difficulties, they have already stolen three generations in advance.

              Another thing is that the overlap of the Bosphorus will force Russia to act harshly and unpredictably. And this is not necessarily a full-blown war. But as a result of such actions, in the near future, the return (rebirth) of Constantinople is possible.

              PS
              By the way, Constantinople was never Turkish at all - it is the Byzantine Empire.
              1. Svetlana
                Svetlana 3 December 2015 15: 23
                +2
                Quote: _Vladislav_
                PS
                By the way, Constantinople was never Turkish at all - it is the Byzantine Empire.

                It was not before the Ottoman Empire captured it. But, if you look at the history of this city before the capture by the Romans in 74 BC, you can find out a lot of interesting things. There are many facts indicating that this city was Slavic. At least the territory that was washed by the Mediterranean and Black Seas was inhabited by a large number - dozens - of Slavic tribes. Scythians, Sarmatians, Thracians, Venets, etc. And there was a time when they were united in a single empire, which has existed since time immemorial under different names. Therefore, subsequently, the Rus never abandoned attempts, often quite successful, to return this city to their control. From the story that we are already allowed to consider official, we know that Prophetic Oleg nailed his shield to the gates of Constantinople. This was done during the heyday of the Byzantine Empire and so that the world knew who the true owner was. During the reign of the Romanovs after the period of civil wars, which was devastating for Russia and almost destroyed it completely, the Russian Empire, which began its gradual restoration, constantly fought with the Turks for the return of their territories of strategic importance, but only Tauris (Crimea) was recaptured, Azov, Bessarabia, East and North Black Sea coast, Caucasus and Transcaucasia. In World War I there was a chance to return Constantinople, but a coup d'etat took place in Russia. The next attempt is possible after the full restoration of the former power of Russia, and then the Turks will definitely have to part with Istanbul. I hope that you and I will live to see this.
                1. -Traveller-
                  -Traveller- 3 December 2015 16: 26
                  +1
                  Quote: Svetlana
                  And there was a time when they were united in a single empire, which has existed since time immemorial under different names

                  Can’t you name a couple of names?
                  1. Svetlana
                    Svetlana 4 December 2015 08: 47
                    +1
                    Quote: -Traveller-
                    Can’t you name a couple of names?

                    Asia, Ruskolan, Great Scythia, Tartaria. Cards too attach or find yourself?
                    1. -Traveller-
                      -Traveller- 5 December 2015 22: 26
                      0
                      ahhh, okay, then I'll add to you - atlantis, lemuria, pasifida, hyperborea, eldorado and shambhala. attach cards or find yourself?
                2. wandlitz
                  wandlitz 3 December 2015 23: 20
                  +1
                  Both Van Lake and Mount Ararat belonged to ARMENIA ...
                  1. -Traveller-
                    -Traveller- 4 December 2015 00: 07
                    0
                    Armenians made a mistake, but when the Seljuks came there, there were more Armenians with the Greeks than Turks, and they still starved them
          2. SRC P-15
            SRC P-15 3 December 2015 09: 00
            +1
            Quote: Mitek
            You are lucky. You have confidence. And I don’t have one.

            I agree with you! There is such a belief in the theater: if a gun hangs on the stage, then it must ultimately shoot. In this case, the gun is the Bosphorus and if the situation between Russia and Turkey worsens, it will certainly fire - the Turks will close the strait. And I am sure that the United States will support them in this.
            1. Genry
              Genry 3 December 2015 12: 55
              +1
              Turkey has priority in regulating traffic through the straits.
              And anyone, including Russia, can block them. Any bottle neck can be roughly plugged with a simple plug.
              Here it is worth racking your brains.
          3. Alekseev
            Alekseev 3 December 2015 17: 15
            +1
            Quote: Mitek
            It is at least silly to be guided by logic and common sense in this situation

            Well, not quite.
            Let's suppose that the Turks have "blown down the tower". The Bosphorus was blocked, and they launched an offensive in Syria.
            Well, they will receive a couple of hundred cruise missiles across Istanbul, including Turkish bases, mess in the straits, the straits will be closed for everyone, including the Turks, even a few ultra-small other 1 Kt "Kuz'kin mothers" for persuasiveness. That's when Merkel will understand that there are so many refugees.
            Is someone ready to "sign" for Turkey and risk their own skin? Whatever article 5 or 10 of the Washington Treaty is violated. Moreover, the Americans will never allow such an aggravation: it is not their method to take risks because of Erdogan's ass.
            1. 30BIS
              30BIS 3 December 2015 18: 56
              +2
              American Turks understand that Russia cannot be tested indefinitely. We and V.V. Putin can tear down the roof and expand the straits globally. And they also want to live. We are a Russian people fatalist. Blood filled my eyes with rage, the noise in my head like from a steam locomotive and a SILUNDRA !!
              1. Abrekkos
                Abrekkos 3 December 2015 19: 02
                +1
                What tells me that the roof of the GDP is firmly and evenly standing.
                He is not Erdogan.

                And the noise is more about a janissary.
        2. -Traveller-
          -Traveller- 3 December 2015 12: 00
          0
          Quote: sa-zz
          The author, as always, is a plus. Short and clear. Confirmed confidence.

          the author did not bother to read this very convention of Montreux, but oh well, the main thing is that everyone should give each other pluses.
          “Turkey will not be able to close the Black Sea straits for Russian ships and ships bound for Syria - this will be a violation of international law and the Montreux Convention in particular, and after all, it was signed by the majority of the world’s states at that time period,” the expert noted.

          I would say "expert". like all local expert winners of mattress mats, dill, gayropeans, etc. etc. - heard the ringing ...
          His Majesty the King of Bulgaria, President of the French Republic, His Majesty the King of Great Britain, Ireland and British possessions overseas, Emperor of India, His Majesty the King of Hellenes, His Majesty the Emperor of Japan, His Majesty the King of Romania, President of the Republic of Turkey, Central Executive Committee of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics , His Majesty the king of Yugoslavia.
          here you have the majority of the countries of the world

          gentlemen, this convention is not secret, and moreover, given the fact that the signatory was incl. USSR, it is in Russian in the public domain. in a consultant plus, just in the internet. read, everything is extremely clear and unequivocally stated there.
        3. opus
          opus 3 December 2015 17: 24
          -8
          Quote: sa-zz
          Short and clear. Confirmed confidence.

          How did AUTOR "confirm"?

          Psychological childish infantilism?

          V.I. Lenin was wrong


          Quote: Browser and commentator Oleg Chuvakin
          Turkey will comply with international law and will not close the passage Russian military and civilian ships through the Black Sea straits. On November 30, RBC was informed by US Permanent Representative to NATO Douglas Lute.


          "Turkey will not be able to close The Black Sea straits for Russian ships and vessels bound for Syria - it will be a violation of international law and the Montreux Convention in particularand after all it was signed by most states of the world for that period of time, ”the expert noted.


          Blah blah blah. This is how the "pestels" think and write

          1. Turkey will be able to physically and economically easily close the straits (bottom prevention, flooding of any galoshes, terrorist attack on the coast). And will receive approvals.

          So we pumped up all the world agreements blocked the exit of the Ukrainian Navy from the Crimea?

          And?
          Oh yes ... Sanctions

          2. Turkey wants to insolently shut off - it will flood 10 rusty galoshes.
          The entire US fleet will probably not be able to carry out (unauthorized) lifting operations of galoshes under the coastal system (700m / 2 = 350m) and cover the Turkish Navy, not to mention our
          3. Turkey will have enough strength and resources to maintain the straits, even BEZH NATO.
          Recall the Sevastopol epic. RI was against the whole coalition. Or 1 MV Turkey with two (Geben and Breslau) kept the Straits, against ALL ANTANTES (England on the one hand, the Russian Empire on the other) and more than one year, and even bombed the coast of Crimea and Odessa.
          1. opus
            opus 3 December 2015 17: 30
            -1
            4. The Montreux Convention 1936 ..
            About Montreux, mantras, mantras ... the mantra of Love is Very Powerful
            Spit and that's it.
            - Memorandum on security guarantees in connection with the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (Budapest Memorandum) the same thing was guaranteed, and guaranteed by the USA, Russia, Great Britain, France and China.
            And?
            CRIMEA IN RUSSIA since 2014, Soon, the DPR and LPR will also arrive
            MONTREO CONFERENCE 1936, conference on the regime of the Black Sea Straits; was held June 22 - July 21 in Montreux (Switzerland) with participation of the USSR, Turkey, Great Britain, France, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Yugoslavia, Australia and Japan.
            Of all listed countries, except for the USSR and Japan (Japan, however, also practically) -All NATO countries.

            Is it necessary to add something to the stupidity "cannot block"?


            Sorry did not decide:
            In 1945, at the Potsdam Conference, the USSR tried to revise the Montreux Convention, requiring a naval base in the Dardanelles and a favorable regime of passage through the straits. At the same time, territorial claims of the USSR against Turkey were put forward. The USSR refused these requirements in 1953 after the death of Stalin, with the advent of Khrushchev to power.

            In fact, the straits are the internal waters of Trucius, which is politically, that geographic, that is economically, that actually.
            And the matter (closing) is not in the Montreux mantras (he can, will not dare), but in what material is Erdogan’s eggs made in particular
            (Americans, Europeans and Turks in common).
            Are they stronger than ours?

            Here is the gist
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 3 December 2015 19: 41
              +2
              Quote: opus
              About Montreux, mantras, mantras ... the mantra of Love is Very Powerful
              Spit and that's it.
              - The memorandum on security guarantees in connection with the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (Budapest Memorandum) also guaranteed a lot of things, and the USA, Russia, Great Britain, France and China guaranteed.

              The memorandum cannot guarantee anything - without ratification by the parliaments of the signatory countries. And this was not done. And the memorandum remained exactly what it was "by default" - a memo, a piece of paper on the monitor.

              But the Montreux Convention was officially signed, entered into force and was even registered in the then counterpart of the UN - the League of Nations.
              1. opus
                opus 3 December 2015 20: 01
                0
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Memorandum

                Convention signatories are the same as in the "memorandum." I am about countries, not the status of a treaty

                If about Ukraine ...

                About how this document was adopted and signed, said the witness of the nuclear disarmament process, the President of the Atlantic Council of Ukraine Vadim Grechaninov:

                “I attended the OSCE meeting in Budapest in 1994, when we were given guarantees by Russia, the UK and the USA, and then France and China. From the outside, everything looked very frivolous. Imagine the picture: Yeltsin, drunk, stands on the stage, hugs the leaders of the above countries. All this did not inspire confidence in me ... But the most important thing is that the guarantees were “lost” somewhere.

                So what?
                And what about the UN charter? What about the Helsinki treaty?


                Quote: Alexey RA
                But the Montreux Convention was officially signed, entered into force and was even registered in the then counterpart of the UN - the League of Nations.

                Convention for the Peaceful Settlement of International Disputes, signed at The Hague on July 29, 1899
                The Convention on Arbitration between Germany and Belgium, concluded at Locarno on October 16, 1925. This mainly concerns the attack on Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg.
                Non-aggression agreement between Germany and Denmark, signed by Ribbentrop on May 31, 1939
                -USA


                St. George's Treatise of 1783

                Yes, their (violations) of international treaties, incl. and stamped at the UN (LN) -not count.
                power is - the contract is being fulfilled. No, not done.
                I can at least be blown away to 0. Essentially this will not change
            2. Koldunja
              Koldunja 3 December 2015 23: 17
              0
              It seems to me that the Convention was slipped into the Soviet Union on purpose. Otherwise, the entire "European part of Turkey" would have long been the "Turkish Soviet Socialist Republic".
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 3 December 2015 19: 29
            +1
            Quote: opus

            V.I. Lenin was wrong

            IN AND. Lenin not mistaken.
            We know that any laborer and any cook are not capable of immediately taking control of the state.
            1. opus
              opus 3 December 2015 21: 25
              +1
              Quote: Alexey RA
              We know that any laborer and any cook are not capable now take control of the state

              The key here (in a snippet) is "Now", only we need to continue:

              .... In this we agree with the Cadets, and with Breshkovskaya, and with Tsereteli. But we differ from these citizens in that we demand an immediate break with the prejudice that it is to rule the state, to carry on the everyday, daily work of the administration, only rich or from rich families are taken officials. We demand that the training in public administration be given by class-conscious workers and soldiers, and that it be started immediately, that is, all workers, the whole poor, immediately begin to be involved in this training.




          3. Serg81
            Serg81 4 December 2015 10: 14
            0
            So if Turkey closes the straits, as you say with 10 galoshes, it will incur significant losses in money. And so there is still a way around Europe. Only transport workers are needed, they need to be built, on the Volga in any regional center and not only shipyards, I don’t want to build ships on the river-sea, especially since the bulk carriers projects have been worked out by many shipyards.
      2. Kostyar
        Kostyar 3 December 2015 10: 25
        +1
        Bosphorus answer?

        "Waist promotion", so for the future .......
      3. Winter cherry
        Winter cherry 3 December 2015 15: 50
        +3
        The Turks have always behaved meanly and aggressively towards Russia with all the rulers. They also know how to pretend. You can never trust the Turks.
      4. Sterlya
        Sterlya 3 December 2015 21: 30
        +1
        you just need to think what to do if they block it?
    2. cniza
      cniza 3 December 2015 07: 53
      +9
      Quote: horoh
      Yes, it seems, while our ships calmly pass the straits. Cho will be further, see.



      All kinds of scenarios are possible, but it seems that hysteria is being artificially developed by our "friends", both inside the country and outside.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Gorjelin
      Gorjelin 3 December 2015 08: 04
      +8
      Yes, it seems, while our ships calmly pass the straits. Cho will be further, see.

      If they smell fried, they spit on international law, as they always did ..
      You just need to look for reciprocal pressure levers.
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 3 December 2015 08: 14
        +3
        Quote: Gorjelin
        If they smell fried, they spit on international law, as they always did ..
        If it smells fried, even within the framework of the convention there are opportunities to use the provision. For example, (Convention on the regime of straits (Montreux, 1936)):
        Section II. WARSHIPS

        Article 20
        During the war, when Turkey is a belligerent, the provisions of the 10-18 articles will not apply: the passage of warships will depend solely on the discretion of the Turkish Government.
        Article 21
        In the event that Turkey considers itself to be at risk of imminent military danger, it will have the right to apply the regulation of Article 20 of this Convention.
        And if you really want to, there will always be pretexts, both within the framework of the convention and according to double standards.
        1. Gorjelin
          Gorjelin 3 December 2015 08: 28
          +5
          And if you really want to, there will always be pretexts, both within the framework of the convention and according to double standards.


          here I am about the same. All these conventions will be respected as long as it is convenient or for fear of a response from our side.

          And we must have no less painful levers of pressure on Turkey. Otherwise, they will block the strait, and we will only pout: "how is it, they violate the convention."
        2. Wellych
          Wellych 3 December 2015 09: 02
          +2
          And if you really want to, there will always be pretexts

          yes, only if the opposite side does not have the strength to defend what is fixed in the contract.
      2. Bayonet
        Bayonet 3 December 2015 08: 24
        0
        Quote: Gorjelin
        If they smell fried, they spit on international law, as they always did ..

        When is it always? "Kravchenko recalled that during the Second World War, Turkey, despite the pressure from Germany, remained neutral and did not close the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles." request
        1. Gorjelin
          Gorjelin 3 December 2015 08: 51
          +6
          When is it always? "Kravchenko recalled that during the Second World War, Turkey, despite the pressure from Germany, remained neutral and did not close the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles."


          Do you think that this is from great nobility, unimaginable honesty and respect for conventions?

          No. It’s just that one could get through the brain if it were closed. Or interests were developing at that time.
        2. Per se.
          Per se. 3 December 2015 09: 13
          +7
          Quote: Bayonet
          "Kravchenko recalled that during the Second World War, Turkey, despite the pressure from Germany, remained neutral and did not close the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles."
          During World War II, not only our warships, but also ships with installed weapons could not pass through the straits (which during the war was already the norm for all transports and auxiliary ships). For example, the icebreaker "Mikoyan", from which it was necessary to remove weapons in order for it to pass the straits, and then made its heroic transition unarmed. Do not forget that at that time the USSR was in a coalition with Britain and the United States, which had an influence on Turkey. Now the West is applying sanctions against Russia, and how they can expand, in what form, can only be assumed. One more incident between our military and the Turks is enough to find a pretext to annoy Russia. In principle, an impudent attack on our Su-24 is not a spontaneous phenomenon, but a planned and coordinated provocation, to which, most likely, there will be a continuation. The photo shows a model of the Mikoyan icebreaker.
          1. Gorjelin
            Gorjelin 3 December 2015 09: 22
            0
            In principle, a blatant attack on our Su-24 is not a spontaneous phenomenon, but a planned and coordinated provocation, which, most likely, will be continued.


            It may well be that this provocation is the search for an excuse to block the strait and supplies of our group in Syria.

            Moreover, with the closure of airspace, Bulgaria itself did not soar at all with formal occasions.
        3. 72jora72
          72jora72 3 December 2015 09: 37
          0
          Quote: Bayonet
          Quote: Gorjelin
          If they smell fried, they spit on international law, as they always did ..

          When is it always? "Kravchenko recalled that during the Second World War, Turkey, despite the pressure from Germany, remained neutral and did not close the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles." request
          This is true. But you need to take into account the level of politicians of that era and current.
        4. kuz363
          kuz363 3 December 2015 10: 37
          0
          So someone else was pushing her. USA or England And they were allies of the USSR. Turkey did nothing on its own
      3. Cap.Morgan
        Cap.Morgan 3 December 2015 08: 45
        +1
        You can close Russian ports for Turkish ships, and airspace for aircraft. There are methods for Bones Saprykin.
        1. kuz363
          kuz363 3 December 2015 10: 39
          0
          Mosquito bites
        2. opus
          opus 3 December 2015 17: 35
          +2
          Quote: Cap.Morgan
          You can close Russian ports for Turkish ships, and airspace for aircraft.

          respected...
          and which Russian ports do the Turks use? (and how many ports do we have?)


          and the Turks use the Russian airspace WHEN they FLY TO US (but charters have already banned), lfor (if that happens) they will fly to the North Pole.
          And so they VP RF - tries do not need
          1. 3officer
            3officer 3 December 2015 17: 48
            -1
            and which Russian ports do the Turks use? (and how many ports do we have?)


            and the Turks use the Russian airspace WHEN they FLY TO US (but charters have already banned), lfor (if that happens) they will fly to the North Pole.
            And so they VP RF - tries do not need [/ quote]


            You painted a lot here .. BUT there is a factor that you didn’t take into account .. look at a new topic. Somehow Chernenko (at a banquet after the Potsdam conference on the Caribbean crisis) said Gromyko-And what if you LIKE a Bomb on a nuclear bomb and expand it !! ( It will be possible to get through) well then something did not grow together. So here's a fact for you! laughing
            1. tlauicol
              tlauicol 3 December 2015 18: 05
              +1
              this is not a fact, this is x..ya! spit in the face of every storyteller for such a "fact"
            2. opus
              opus 3 December 2015 18: 45
              +1
              Quote: 3officer
              . So here's a fact for you!

              I can not add anything to
              Quote: Tlauicol
              this is not a fact it's h..ya! spit in the face of every storyteller for such a "fact"

              (full X ..., moreover)
      4. Wellych
        Wellych 3 December 2015 09: 00
        +2
        they spit on international law

        Well, there in international law there is also about the immutability of borders (Kurds) and the Kars agreement (Armenians and Ararat), but it, this right, did not arise from scratch, but as a result of a mutually beneficial compromise.
        1. jjj
          jjj 3 December 2015 11: 08
          0
          The Turks adopted their own rules of passage through the "Turkish" straits. According to them, traffic can be stopped in a number of cases, such as construction and rescue work, weather conditions, sports events. These rules are not part of international treaties, but may allow Turks to act in some way "legally"
    5. SIMM
      SIMM 3 December 2015 16: 42
      0
      +1
      In the end, as Gromyko said: you can always make the second strait, only Istanbul will not have the year ...)))
    6. silver_roman
      silver_roman 3 December 2015 17: 23
      0
      I like it so much when our people refer to international law, as if it still means something. now everyone was spitting on Montreux and other things. Or this agreement has been given some special powers, such as "break in case of war" !!!
  2. izya top
    izya top 3 December 2015 07: 05
    +6
    The comment of the US representative to NATO is also known. As US Permanent Representative to NATO Douglas Lute said, Turkey will abide by international law and will not block the passage of Russian military and civilian ships through the Black Sea straits
    the owner of the turretchina did not give the good ...
    1. Leonid1976
      Leonid1976 3 December 2015 07: 16
      +6
      On the occupation of Cyprus, too, did not? This was generally a problem for NATO. Did you listen? The world is more complex than it seems to those who rank half the world as silent executors of the will of the State Department.
  3. venaya
    venaya 3 December 2015 07: 06
    -8
    “If this center tells some vessel that approached from the Black Sea, stand and wait while we let you through, then the vessel will stand and wait,” the expert said. “And it will not go anywhere, because it has no right to go to the Bosphorus without the permission of this traffic control ...”

    Here, in this case, calm is needed. First of all, it is desirable to adjust the entire existing Black Sea fleet closer to the strait, we'll see. What’s next - according to the circumstances, the main thing is to demonstrate determination, I think I can’t do without it.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 3 December 2015 07: 11
      +8
      Quote: venaya
      . First of all, it is desirable to adjust the entire existing Black Sea fleet closer to the strait,

      What would be more convenient for the Turks to drown it?
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 3 December 2015 07: 17
        11
        It makes no sense to push our warships to the BOSPHORUS ... these straits can easily be sealed with other weapons and just to rattle the weapons frivolously ... we will look like a kid who suddenly got his hands on military weapons and decided to show the world how cool he is ... it's just stupid.

        Our weapons are calm and self-control at the moment, do not flog a fever.
        1. venaya
          venaya 3 December 2015 07: 24
          +1
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          Our weapons are calm and self-control at the moment, do not flog a fever.

          And I am a supporter of a cold-blooded demonstration of our fighting power. What could be more cool than the fact of the demonstration?
        2. asar
          asar 3 December 2015 08: 07
          +5
          Alexey, all the best!
          I agree with you!
          It's not time to flog a fever, let the "dish stand", so as not to "get hooked"!
          It’s just that the Bosphorus is considered an insurmountable strait, a very large cargo flow, bad weather conditions, etc. are possible!
          Thinking about something else - about the cruiser "Moskva"
          Here "rumors" went that "Moscow" was "surrounded" by the tour. p / l.
          I propose - to declare the water area immediately adjacent to the zone of action of "Moscow" as the territory of the forthcoming exercises - anti-submarine "measures", with all the "consequences" ... - drops of anti-submarine buoys, drops of depth charges ... etc.
          I apologize to the "Moremanov" (not special in your "marine terminology"), if I wrote something wrong!
          I think the "events" carried out will discourage the tour. submarines "wander" near "Moscow"!
        3. kuz363
          kuz363 3 December 2015 10: 41
          0
          And another weapon - a US aircraft carrier will be at the exit from the strait. With all the ensuing consequences
      2. venaya
        venaya 3 December 2015 07: 22
        +2
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        it is desirable to adjust the entire existing Black Sea fleet closer to the strait.
        What would be more convenient for the Turks to drown it?

        And what, war has already been declared, military operations have begun ??? International practice has many such examples, when the rattling of weapons is more effective than its application. If this is not familiar to you, take an interest.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 3 December 2015 07: 26
          +2
          Quote: venaya
          If this is not familiar to you, take an interest.

          1. As I understand it, you are not at all familiar with the fact that pulling a military to the borders, maritime or land of a neighboring state, is regarded by international law as preparation for a warrior.
          2. What are going to pull together? Have you compared the Turkish fleet in the Black Sea and ours? Well, at least a little?
          1. venaya
            venaya 3 December 2015 07: 33
            -2
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            pulling the military to the borders, maritime or land of a neighboring state, international law regards as preparation for a warrior.

            That is, the closure of the strait (even under a false pretext) is not a preparation for war? And also, specify where this clause of international law is published.
            1. asar
              asar 3 December 2015 08: 22
              +5
              Vyacheslav! Good afternoon!
              And what, the Turks blocked the strait for the passage of our ships ?!
              As they walked, they continue to walk! The same "Yauza"!
              Well, the Turks tried to creep slightly, held our ships, but ... then, everything became normal!
              And the ships, both "foreign merchants" and ours, stand for a couple, three days - have you seen a photo of the Bosphorus ?! The fog has settled and that's it ...! The strait "got up"!
              I have an acquaintance - the captain of a dry cargo ship, told me how many days "passed": Black Sea - Mediterranean Sea - a week! The fog "settled" over the Bosphorus, over the Sea of ​​Marmara, only the Dardanelles were slightly "open"!
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. gjv
                gjv 3 December 2015 14: 03
                +2
                Quote: asar
                As they walked, they continue to walk!

                The dry cargo ships "Transmar", "Mechanic Yuzvovich" and "VolgoBalt 216" have just passed from the Mediterranean to Chernoe.
            2. andj61
              andj61 3 December 2015 08: 29
              +4
              Quote: venaya
              That is, the closure of the strait (even under a false pretext) is not a preparation for war? And also, specify where this clause of international law is published.

              It took a long time to revise the Montreux Convention. In the early 90s, she introduced the rules of navigation in the straits, which, so to speak, "developed" the convention. According to these rules, for large ships, a Turkish pilot is required, certain types of ships - accompanied by a coast guard vessel, For very large ships - the movement is exclusively alone, until the ship passes the entire strait - others do not enter; the right to block straits for exercises, routine maintenance and technical work for bridges, cables, pipelines. And much more. We have worn out, and for more than 20 years we have been following these rules in fact. And the Turks can block the straits at any time, for example, to repair a bridge. And they will say to the protests - you have actually followed our rules for 20 years - so why are you indignant?
              1. venaya
                venaya 3 December 2015 08: 51
                +3
                You are right, they will take all sorts of unsupported protests from a high bell tower (or mosque, minaret). The need for availability and the main tasks of the Black Sea Fleet are precisely to ensure the freedom of movement of sea vessels primarily through the straits. Everyone here completely forgot about it. And why then did our country build ships over the course of a millennium? Why such huge expenses? Nobody wants to ask these questions at all. I’ll also add that once the straits were blocked at night by a huge chain, in order to extort tribute, we forget.
            3. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 3 December 2015 09: 51
              +1
              Quote: venaya

              That is, the closure of the strait (even under a false pretext) is not a preparation for war?

              Having spilled someone blocked?
              Quote: venaya
              And also, specify where this clause of international law is published.

              Joker?
              1. venaya
                venaya 3 December 2015 10: 24
                0
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Joker?

                Who exactly?
                "pulling troops to the borders, maritime or land of a neighboring state, international law regards as preparation for a warrior."- Where does this information come from? Where is its source. Listen to you, and you can refuse regular flights of our strategic aviation along the coasts of North America or the British Isles. Here on the site I often find so many new things that I can't find anywhere else in educational institutions , perhaps such infa is secret, and therefore quite natural questions arise.
                "Having spilled someone blocked?"- now life is such that you have to be ready for everything:" It's hard in learning ... ".
          2. andj61
            andj61 3 December 2015 08: 22
            +2
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Have you compared the Turkish fleet in the Black Sea and ours? Well, at least a little?

            Is it worth comparing taking into account the Bastion complexes (the Bal's range is still small), as well as aviation and CD or without them? Indeed, if something happens, not the fleets will fight, but the countries, and in the confrontation all forces should be taken into account, incl. the notorious and terrible "Calibers" of the Caspian Flotilla. Yes, and the Black Sea Fleet has them. In terms of armament, we do not even have parity, we slightly surpass Turkey, although we are inferior in terms of fleet tonnage. We have failed in submarines - against 14 Turkish ones, we have only 7, but 4 of them are Project 636.3 boats, which are completely superior to the Turkish ones.
            1. tlauicol
              tlauicol 3 December 2015 08: 27
              +2
              against 14 boats we have 1. the rest are not running or are being completed in the north.
            2. Cap.Morgan
              Cap.Morgan 3 December 2015 08: 50
              +3
              There is also an unsinkable aircraft carrier - Crimea.
              In the last war, German aviation from Crimean airfields caused many problems to our fleet.
            3. kuz363
              kuz363 3 December 2015 10: 45
              0
              Why are you praying for these Caliber? They won’t win any war. Explosives 200-400 kg and all. Not so much effect compared with its cost of several million dollars. During the war, the Germans launched the FAU-2 at London. One got into a department store full of people. Only 160 people died. But the explosives were 1000 kg!
              1. Abrekkos
                Abrekkos 3 December 2015 18: 14
                0
                Well, a rocket against ground targets has a bit more explosives. You probably focused on export performance data. Although the difference is generally not great.

                But the main problem is different: the vast majority of them simply will not reach Turkey. they will be easily removed by air defense.
                Unfortunately, gauges are already rockets for striking third-rate countries. And the NATO countries are more likely the 1st grade.
                The operation will be simply ruinous for our army and will result in embarrassment. Do we need it?
          3. asar
            asar 3 December 2015 08: 53
            +4
            Alexander! Good all!
            Minus me, it’s not clear why!
            The straits are "blocked" for ours ?!
            Нет!
            The same "Yauza" is already in the Sea of ​​Marmara, going to the Dardanelles!
            What is the "bazaar" about ?!
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 3 December 2015 09: 53
              +1
              Quote: asar
              Alexander! Good all!

              Hello! Me too, they always do that laughing
            2. kuz363
              kuz363 3 December 2015 10: 47
              0
              The Yauza is an auxiliary vessel, not a battleship.
      3. afdjhbn67
        afdjhbn67 3 December 2015 07: 27
        12
        Something, Sasha, I’m watching people more and more laughed out loud ... I forgot that steel is not only beautiful pictures on TV but 200 loads ...
        1. zahoder
          zahoder 3 December 2015 07: 52
          -10 qualifying.
          And you, as Katz, offer to give up.
        2. Cap.Morgan
          Cap.Morgan 3 December 2015 08: 51
          -9
          We are a military nation.
          This is a natural state of Russian people.
        3. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 3 December 2015 09: 52
          +6
          Quote: afdjhbn67
          ..forgetting that war is not only beautiful pictures on TV but 200 loads ...

          They think they will watch a warrior on TV with beer in their hands.
        4. kuz363
          kuz363 3 December 2015 10: 49
          +3
          People believe that war is like a game on a computer. And mostly those who did not serve in the army. Not to mention real fighting
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 3 December 2015 08: 27
      10
      Quote: venaya
      First of all, it is desirable to adjust the entire existing Black Sea fleet closer to the strait, we'll see.
  4. inkass_98
    inkass_98 3 December 2015 07: 06
    +1
    According to other sources, there are no problems with the passage of the straits yet; all the maneuvers of our and not our ships are explained by the banal queue for the passage. But with the visit to Turkish ports, problems began even before the incident with the plane - under far-fetched pretexts, our ships were blocked exits (imaginary problems need to be eliminated), which leads to unplanned expenses of "port money". It is necessary to draw conclusions and reduce or even stop calls of our ships at the ports of Turkey.
  5. Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 3 December 2015 07: 06
    -5
    After all, the Turks do not want our ships to pass the strait with the uncovered main caliber of the ship.
    1. SVT
      SVT 3 December 2015 08: 30
      13
      Have you seen the width of the strait?
      Well, at least look at the photo for the article, it’s clearly visible, this width.
      In response to the "uncovering" of the main caliber, the Turks simply need to turn on the radars of the coastal batteries and constantly irradiate our ships.
      Here it is not necessary to create problems for ourselves from scratch.
      The agreements on the straits were concluded by smart people who understood that blocking the straits is a "casus belli", a 100% pretext for war, which will affect not only the Russian Federation and Turkey, all the countries of the Black Sea coast, because if something happens, the same Romanian ships in response on the blockade of the strait between us and the Turks they will not be able to ask to stop the war for a minute, so that they would sail.
      Therefore, it is not necessary to uncover what to take on a fright, roughly uncovered it - use it, otherwise it is a cheap trick that will take place at most 1 time.
      The USSR could afford to uncover it, because firstly there was something to uncover, secondly, everyone knew that this was not a "show-off" but a warning, and thirdly, everyone knew that if they uncovered it, then what they didn’t use was just order NOT to apply.
      Unfortunately, the Russian Federation is not the USSR. We cannot afford this.
      1. Alexander 3
        Alexander 3 3 December 2015 13: 20
        0
        Can it be that our planes fly with missiles (air-to-air) for a show-off, probably. And there is much more space in the air. I said this in the broad sense of the word, you do not need to take it literally.
  6. aszzz888
    aszzz888 3 December 2015 07: 09
    +2
    Finally, in conclusion, the Turks now have no reason to aggravate the already tense relations with Russia.


    And Lavrov in Belgrade, said that we will not shy away from meeting with the Turkish representative of power.
    Let's see what the Turks will try to rub.
  7. shinobi
    shinobi 3 December 2015 07: 10
    +2
    Washington doesn’t let go of the muck.
    1. Tatar 174
      Tatar 174 3 December 2015 07: 21
      +1
      Quote: shinobi
      Washington doesn’t let go of the muck.

      Why did this happen to him?
  8. Amurets
    Amurets 3 December 2015 07: 13
    +6
    Closing the straits is a pretext for war. NATO does not need this, there are also no suicides. The problems of the Erdogan family are the problems of Turkey, and not the problems of NATO.
  9. Mikhail m
    Mikhail m 3 December 2015 07: 17
    +3
    “To prove that this is not so and that it is biased, it will take a very long time,” Voitenko believes.

    And what, we do not have people who receive a salary in order to solve such incidents?
  10. parusnik
    parusnik 3 December 2015 07: 20
    +2
    Online speculation appeared..This is for sure, conjectures have appeared, mom do not cry .. And on different topics .. and the meaning is the same .. aaaaaaa .. we will all die .. The "darkest" is to blame for everything ... Katz, offers to surrender .. The fifth column is activated ..
  11. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 3 December 2015 07: 30
    +2
    They will not risk it. The black lord did not order. He still needs a whole Turkey, and not divided between Kurds, Armenians and who else ...
    1. Dilshat
      Dilshat 3 December 2015 08: 25
      +1
      Uncle Sam and ratchet. Who "calibers"? Fly in! The price has dropped! The Turkish Navy nervously smokes on the sidelines. - As I understand you! -No you understand! -The navy of turkey.
    2. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 3 December 2015 08: 54
      0
      It would be better to ruin Turkey.
      This is too strong and hostile player. But coups in 1 day do not.
  12. BOB044
    BOB044 3 December 2015 07: 35
    0
    Turkey cannot create problems or a complete ban on the passage of our ships in the straits. So the hype in the media is a complete provocation. Turkey can only flood all its tankers in the straits on the fairway. Then then no one can pass. And so its Turkey will be torn like an ace heating pad.
  13. chikenous59
    chikenous59 3 December 2015 07: 35
    -6
    I read on one of the news sites that Russia is transferring nuclear weapons to Syria using the Yauza ship.
    Who is aware of this event?
    1. SVT
      SVT 3 December 2015 08: 37
      +5
      Definitely a throw-in, just think why TNW directly in Syria?
      As shown a month ago, with the need for tactical nuclear weapons, it will calmly fly where it is necessary from the Caspian Sea, because we did not launch all the caliber.
      So the drive of tactical nuclear weapons into Syria is definitely a throw-in. And stupid.
      For whom will we use it? Is there a deep-echeloned ISIS defense stuffed with a bunch of electronics that can’t be punched by anything other than TNW, through the gap that the TNW will penetrate, will our armored armies roll down to the last sea?
  14. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 3 December 2015 07: 39
    +1
    Of course, the Turks will bang their heels on their chests and make some kind of body movements, but they won’t dare to close the straits (my opinion).
  15. U-96
    U-96 3 December 2015 07: 42
    +1
    I think the xoxlam needs to prove that it was they who dug the straits and pick them up under their jurisdiction.
    Isn’t this why Jats is going to Sicily aboard Harry Truman?
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 3 December 2015 08: 33
      +2
      Quote: U-96
      I think the xhams need to prove that they dug the straits

      Yes, with this and so it is clear. When the sea was dug up, it was necessary to pour water, therefore, the straits were also their work. smile True, on the Bosphorus the crane still stood cast-iron, but where did they divide it ... request
  16. Karayakupovo
    Karayakupovo 3 December 2015 07: 51
    +6
    How many times passed through the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles, we had to expect passage. There were fewer downtimes through the Dardanelles. So do not make an elephant out of a fly.
  17. shimus
    shimus 3 December 2015 08: 00
    +2
    I wonder how long they will wait for permission to enter our submarine strait?
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 3 December 2015 08: 50
      +3
      Quote: shimus
      I wonder how long they will wait for permission to enter our submarine strait?

      Article 12 (Montreux Convention)

      Powers that are coastal to the Black Sea will have the right to navigate through the Straits, in order to return to their base, their submarines built or bought outside this sea, if Turkey was notified in advance of a bookmark or purchase. Submarines belonging to the named Powers may equally pass through the Straits for repairs at shipyards located outside this sea, provided that accurate information on this is given to Turkey. And in that, and in another case, the submarines will have to sail during the day, and moreover on the surface, and pass through the Straits alone.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 3 December 2015 09: 51
        0
        Alone, in the afternoon, and in the surface with the notification of Turkey - in principle, I knew all this. But the fact that the Turks know in advance about each boat laid down or planned to be built for the World Cup is simple .. I don’t even know what to call it request
      2. WUA 518
        WUA 518 3 December 2015 12: 07
        +1
        Quote: Bayonet
        Article 12 (Montreux Convention)
        The UN Convention on the Law of the Sea has become a kind of “maritime constitution” that regulates the use of the ocean and the relations of countries in the field of navigation and the use of sea resources. By 2005, 145 countries of the world became parties to the Convention.

        Within the framework of the convention, a compromise solution was found, according to which the concept of "transit passage" was introduced. Today in the world there are 135 strategic international straits less than 24 miles (38.4 km) wide, designed for the unimpeded passage of ships of all countries of the world. All ships and aircraft have the right to pass through these straits. Submarines have the right to sail through these areas while under water. In turn, the countries bordering international straits received the right to develop a sea traffic regime, as well as the right to regulate environmental standards and the process of extracting resources in the strait zone.
  18. U-96
    U-96 3 December 2015 08: 02
    +3
    The convention left Turkey’s rather broad powers, but, funny enough, the League of Nations acted as the regulator when sensitive issues related to military threats came) so that the Turks would not abuse it very much. And by the way, every five years, any of the parties could apply for a review of the provisions of the Convention. In general, an interesting archaic document. But frankly - trash. One preamble worth:
    His Majesty the King of Bulgaria, the President of the French Republic, his Majesty the king of Great Britain, Ireland and British possessions overseas, the emperor of India, his majesty the king of Hellenes, his majesty the emperor of Japan, his majesty the king of Romania, the president of the Republic of Turkey, the Central Executive Committee of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics , His Majesty the king of Yugoslavia; Animated by the desire to streamline

    class!
  19. Zomanus
    Zomanus 3 December 2015 08: 15
    +3
    But look what news headlines are in the Belolentochnik’s feed on the mail.
    This is on the right side of the page.
    Everything, they blocked Russia, indicated its place, Putin is now in a panic or at a loss ...
    There just reading the headings is enough to understand
    that in Russia, freedom of speech rights are respected, and even more.
    1. U-96
      U-96 3 December 2015 08: 36
      +3
      Quote: Zomanus
      But look what news headlines are in the Belolentochnik’s feed on the mail.

      they have generally intensified recently. Obama signed the budget for 2016, apparently, there will be grants)
  20. sledge
    sledge 3 December 2015 08: 20
    -1
    Remove the obstacle (in the form of Turkey) for the passage of our ships
  21. cap
    cap 3 December 2015 08: 24
    +2
    Quote: shimus
    I wonder how long they will wait for permission to enter our submarine strait?

    ANSWER: "NOT MUCH".
    Just because ... We saw the periscope in the Atlantic .... Well, it is very similar to Russian. bully
  22. Mikhail Krapivin
    Mikhail Krapivin 3 December 2015 08: 43
    +3
    Finally, in conclusion, the Turks now have no reason to aggravate the already tense relations with Russia.


    He and our plane did not have any reason to shoot down. But shot down. Because fuck ... weird. Therefore, it is worth calculating this option and our answer to it.
  23. Al_oriso
    Al_oriso 3 December 2015 08: 49
    0
    On December 1, a note appeared on the RIA Novosti website that quoted the words of a military diplomatic source. He told the agency that the ships of the Russian Navy did not experience problems with the passage of the Bosphorus and Dardanelles.

    Does this source have a name? If the name hides, then how can one believe his words?
    I can also refer to the alleged "source".
    1. U-96
      U-96 3 December 2015 09: 47
      0
      Quote: Al_oriso
      Does this source have a name? If the name hides, then how can one believe his words?

      Cap ??? It has become news for you that the media practice links to some anonymous "authoritative sources" ??? Many more surprises await you.
      Quote: Al_oriso
      I can also refer to the alleged "source".

      and no one forbids. Link at least to the barmaid of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. You can Turkish. Technologies, such information technologies. laughing
  24. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 3 December 2015 08: 54
    +2
    No need to panic, first of all "our fifth column with comrades" is catching up with hysteria. No one can forbid Russia to walk through the straits, and any threat, even a small one, in this regard, can become a big problem. Even a cat is not recommended to pull the tail, but a bear. ....
  25. Stas57
    Stas57 3 December 2015 08: 59
    +1
    “As for the Turkish submarine, there is nothing extraordinary in that it met with our transport - these boats regularly pass the strait in both directions, just like the rest of the Turkish Navy’s ships," the agency’s source said.

    however, I personally saw the boat at Cabatage, and given the traffic, it 100% collided with some of our ship, or even two
  26. Yak-3P
    Yak-3P 3 December 2015 09: 03
    +1
    Yes, they won’t close it ... they’ll stupid-obstruct but they don’t close it if it’s closed, it’s WAR and they definitely don’t need it, because we’ll expand it in a drill-blast way ..
  27. 25ru
    25ru 3 December 2015 09: 03
    +2
    Is it hard to find and read a 1984 book?
    Edition MO, Title "Recommendations for navigation in the Bosphorus and Dardanelles". Everything is written there: depth, width, length, mode of navigation.
    On the network you will find by name. The document is valid.
  28. Chulman
    Chulman 3 December 2015 09: 09
    -1
    If you really need, we will pass without any montrey! laughing
    1. U-96
      U-96 3 December 2015 11: 55
      0
      Quote: Chulman
      If you really need, we will pass without any montrey! laughing

      boldly ... The Alexandrov Choir will strike "Dubinushka" and - forward, "rope haulers" ...
    2. 3officer
      3officer 3 December 2015 16: 59
      0
      If the Turks need it, they will close it and not let it in. (Judging by the behavior of the bad Erdo, he
      not a fan of reading conventions before going to bed) There remains the option of air delivery or smuggling under the "left" flag (but the Turkish can brake and search at any moment)
  29. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 3 December 2015 09: 24
    +1
    Problems must be addressed as they become available.
    With the Straits, the Turks will quietly play dirty tricks, but they are afraid to close them.
    There are a lot of possible stuffing in the network, including to create tension. Those who do this give money, but we don’t need to accept and play along with bots to our hearts.
  30. Belousov
    Belousov 3 December 2015 09: 34
    +1
    Closing the straits will cause a very large sheer, stronger than a downed plane, because here you can’t turn on the fool. Closed the strait - admit the aggressor. Then it is possible to catch on completely legal grounds and no one will even express particular protests. Another thing is that will the Turks have enough brains to realize this fact, or will the states continue to push them like a bear?
  31. Baloo
    Baloo 3 December 2015 09: 52
    0
    Met Turkish submarine ... So what? It was impossible to part with her following the rules of shipping?
    If our barge would ram a Turkish submarine, I would immediately send a congratulatory telegram to the Moscow Region and the captain with a victory over the Islamofascists.hi good bully drinks
  32. Andryukha G
    Andryukha G 3 December 2015 10: 12
    +1
    The West decided to isolate Turkey, generally remove it from the conflict. Previously, there was a plan that ISIS would crush the troops of Bashar al-Assad, and then the financing of ISIS would cease, the mercenaries would leave, and NATO, with the participation of Turkey, would send troops. And the whole world would applaud that they had overthrown the terrorist regime. The Turks would occupy some areas, the West would control the main territory, our base, of course, would be expelled from Syria. The Shia axis of Syria-Iran would be broken.

    But this scenario has failed. Turkey is now provoking the Third World War, the West does not need it. Turkey has become a troublesome ally, so all the "democratizers" from the United States to England are abruptly opening the so-called Second Front in order to catch up - as in the distant 44th to the division of the "skin" of a "bear" killed by a Russian soldier.
  33. vezunchik
    vezunchik 3 December 2015 10: 28
    +1
    In the late 70s, Turkey announced that it was considering closing the passage through the Bosphorus to the Mediterranean for warships of the Soviet Union. To this statement, comrade Gromyko told American reporters at a cocktail party in the White House: “For passage to the Mediterranean, the USSR’s Black Sea Fleet
    it will take only a couple of volleys of missiles. As a result
    this will appear two more passes in the Mediterranean, but alas, there will be no Istanbul. ”
    After these words, Turkey no longer raised the issue of closing the Bosphorus to warships of the USSR
  34. nik1321
    nik1321 3 December 2015 10: 29
    +1
    "Russian presidential press secretary Dmitry Peskov called the possibility of Turkey blocking the Black Sea straits for Russian ships an apocalyptic scenario."
    it will be an apocalyptic scenario for Turkey (and maybe for Gazprom) - because at least gas cutoff will have a beneficial effect on its economy and very quickly - and ships and a month will stop - a month later the country will be dreary without energy and all this will be noticeable. I believe the Turks understand this.
  35. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 3 December 2015 10: 42
    +2
    Quote: horoh
    Yes, it seems, while our ships calmly pass the straits. Cho will be further, see.


    I think they will calmly pass if we ourselves do not get into trouble.

    The attack on the plane was a purely political and not a military step. Of course, based on confidence that the Russian Federation would not dare or could not answer, but political.

    Erdogoan snapped his nose on Russia. So to say, put in place the northern giant.

    For his imperial project, this is enough. He showed that he was able to protect himself and, therefore, neighbors. heap near me. In the Arab world, strength is appreciated.

    He’s enough, he can’t do anything else without a lot of risk. At least without big losses, which is not clear how they will affect his career. Shoot down the second plane does not make sense.

    So it is unlikely that he will continue to climb on the rampage.

    And jerking and excessive escalation in words is only a sign of weakness.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 3 December 2015 14: 15
      0
      I think so too. Erdogan wanted to show his warlike voters
      and the external Turkoman world, that he would "break the mouth of everyone" for them.
      And that without the participation of Turkey, as one of the main players in the region,
      the civil war in Syria cannot be ended.
      A constant confrontation with Russia and the breakdown of ties to him is useless.
  36. tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 3 December 2015 10: 46
    0
    The great thing is the internet !!! especially ABS users / one woman said / and it started on all channels of TV, FM, etc. The most unpleasant thing is that serious people make a link to the Internet.
  37. atamankko
    atamankko 3 December 2015 10: 56
    0
    Our "friends" and our own liberals will be worn out, no need to panic.
  38. dr. sem
    dr. sem 3 December 2015 11: 57
    0
    closing the straits is a Turkish suicide. Well, if closed, there are more than enough "can openers" ...
  39. sisa29
    sisa29 3 December 2015 12: 02
    0
    Wow. Th. Yauza is also not in scrap. It is sad that our fleet has such ancient transports. He is already 42 years old, and outwardly resembles a ship from the Striped voyage, also a superstructure in the center. Now you rarely see such people, although M. Somov is still alive, but he is the conqueror of Antarctica.
    1. sisa29
      sisa29 3 December 2015 12: 10
      0
      old man tx yauza
    2. Stas57
      Stas57 3 December 2015 12: 13
      0
      Wow. Th. Yauza is also not in scrap. It is sad that our fleet has such ancient transports. He is already 42 years old, and outwardly resembles a ship from the Striped voyage, also a superstructure in the center. Now you rarely see such people, although M. Somov is still alive, but he is the conqueror of Antarctica.

      Yes you are an expert!

      On October 8, 2012, at the Nerpa Shipyard OJSC in Snezhnogorsk (Murmansk region), after the overhaul and modernization, a large sea dry-cargo (and now cargo-passenger) special purpose transport Yauza of project 550M, subordinate to 12- of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Russia The main task of the vessel is to support the operation of the training ground on Novaya Zemlya, based on Arkhangelsk.

      Project 550 Yauza transport has been modernized at the Nerpa shipyard under a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense since May 2008. The 550M modernization project was developed by the Nizhny Novgorod KB Vympel OJSC. The Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center OJSC (Severodvinsk) was also actively involved in the work. In the course of deep modernization, the superstructure was partially rebuilt on the ship, a residential block was completed (which now allows to accommodate 90 passengers), modern control systems were installed, new diesel generators were installed, the electric power plant was replaced, security and communication systems were completely updated. A powerful cargo crane with a lifting capacity of 60 tons was mounted in front of the superstructure, and a crane with 9 tons in the stern.

      The transport was launched from the Pallada factory floating dock, where it was taken out of the Nerpa shipyard on June 20, 2012. It is reported that initially the cost of the work under the contract was 1,75 billion rubles, but in fact the cost of modernizing the Yauza has already cost more than 3,5 billion rubles, and the total amount will reach 4 billion rubles. After launching on October 8 and completing the outfitting work, the vessel is to undergo mooring and state tests.

      Large sea dry cargo transport (diesel-electric ship of reinforced ice class) "Yauza" project 550 (type "Captain Myshevsky", the second series of ships of the "Amguema" type) was built at the Kherson shipyard and transferred to the USSR Navy on December 30, 1974, the flag of auxiliary vessels The Navy was raised in February 1975. The vessel was part of the Northern Fleet, and in 1998 it was transferred to the subordination of the 12th Main Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Russia.
      1. sisa29
        sisa29 3 December 2015 12: 42
        -1
        I agree, I was mistaken not 42, but another 41 years, I thought him in scrap, but as it turns out, they also reanimated
      2. sisa29
        sisa29 3 December 2015 12: 51
        0
        Not for the role of an expert, I do not pull, the opinion of the layman.
        An expert is a specialist invited or hired for a fee to issue a qualified opinion or opinion on an issue considered or decided by other people less competent in this field.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  40. andrew42
    andrew42 3 December 2015 12: 05
    +1
    In the current period, international law is depreciating exponentially. So Erdogan may well block the straits. May begin to launch attacks on ships leaving the Dardanelles. A lot of things can. Whose torpedo? Who sank the ship? - It drowned. Erdogan has already proved his inadequacy and a tendency to psychosis. We must clearly understand that we are on the verge of war with Turkey and the Kiev junta on the Black Sea theater. And you need to prepare hard for this war, no matter how sad. The key to solving the problem is a tight alliance with the PKK, that is, with the Kurds, and only through Assad, who in turn is obliged to guarantee Syrian Kurds independence within their territories, under the Conditions. It is necessary to tie Erdogan hand and foot. It is necessary to raise the Kurds to fight the Turkey-DAISH coalition right now. Then it will be too late. The straits - the blockade of Syria - the edge of the Syrian express - with Russia in that region and the Kurds will not talk. Time, time is expensive.
  41. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 3 December 2015 12: 19
    +1
    Quote: andrew42
    In the current period, international law is depreciating exponentially. So Erdogan may well block the straits. May begin to launch attacks on ships leaving the Dardanelles. A lot of things can. Whose torpedo? Who sank the ship? - It drowned. Erdogan has already proved his inadequacy and a tendency to psychosis. We must clearly understand that we are on the verge of war with Turkey and the Kiev junta on the Black Sea theater. And you need to prepare hard for this war, no matter how sad. The key to solving the problem is a tight alliance with the PKK, that is, with the Kurds, and only through Assad, who in turn is obliged to guarantee Syrian Kurds independence within their territories, under the Conditions. It is necessary to tie Erdogan hand and foot. It is necessary to raise the Kurds to fight the Turkey-DAISH coalition right now. Then it will be too late. The straits - the blockade of Syria - the edge of the Syrian express - with Russia in that region and the Kurds will not talk. Time, time is expensive.


    Do not underestimate the enemy.

    Erdogan does not freak out and exactly bends his imperial line.

    Not being afraid and not disdaining to go over corpses and hit him in the back if he knows that there will be nothing for him.

    While he is succeeding. He has not yet apologized.
    1. andrew42
      andrew42 3 December 2015 12: 37
      0
      It's really funny to me. What can Erdogan "bend" exactly? This is despite the fact that Obama is a pure talking puppet! Yes, a little game, yes, he cherishes the dream of becoming a sultan, he even became one, like the Konya Sultanate, between the times of the Seljuks and the Ottomans. Maybe you can also say that Erdogan is the main geopolitical enemy? Yes, even the United States cannot be called in its pure form! (because the shell is not the contents). Just a vicious dog fed with Syrian blood and Syrian oil. He is nervous that the feeding will end. And you don't need to count on its adequacy. And then the Russians began to take away the bowl. He and the owner, in a certain situation, can bite. Then, of course, he will lick his hand, and the owner will have mercy on him, thinking "... you need such a cattle yourself." So Erdogan's oppression is "uneven", oh, how uneven ..
      1. Abrekkos
        Abrekkos 3 December 2015 12: 47
        0
        Well, of course, with your sagacity, awareness, political experience you know better.
        It’s a pity that all these secrets have been gleaned from the official TV version for the so-so-so-educated public.

        Or maybe you yourself are pulling Obama, Erdogan, etc. for these strings? and know all this from your own experience? Therefore, speak from what you know?

        And laugh at the insignificant worms Obama and Erdogan. From the height of his position. wink

        If you read the story and not fantasize and not gush propaganda cliches.

        It turns out that Turkey has always been on its mind. She threw friends and enemies, answered with a blow to the good, hid behind someone else's back if it was beneficial to her.

        In short, the puppeteers with this doll had little profit.
        1. andrew42
          andrew42 3 December 2015 13: 16
          0
          You have a deliberate shift in emphasis on the personality of the interlocutor. Is it an occupational injury or a genetic inherent stereotype of behavior? Familiar rhetoric. It remains to hear from you "What do you think?", And the case can be closed. What are these straits? You are more interested in my "insight, awareness, political experience" "from the official TV version." Well, you have to go down to your methods. I have not been hired as objects for research, and I am not going to share my experience. If the skull presses on the brain, look for a "average educated public", where your ingenious criticism will be appreciated.
          1. Abrekkos
            Abrekkos 3 December 2015 14: 40
            0
            Thanks for the diagnosis. I will take into account with further communication.

            It's just that your "laugh" in response to my first completely neutral post also seemed to me somewhat arrogant and not too polite. Maybe I'm wrong.

            I apologize for my non-abstinence. drinks

            I'm sorry to offend. repeat
  42. Lelek
    Lelek 3 December 2015 12: 37
    0
    (Oleg Chuvakin reviewed and commented)

    Thank you Oleg, as always:
  43. Kommerz
    Kommerz 3 December 2015 12: 42
    +4
    And so it once was.
  44. neznakomez
    neznakomez 3 December 2015 13: 39
    0
    The Russian landing ship, while passing through the Bosphorus, did not raise the “guest” Turkish flag, local media reported.
    The large landing ship of the Black Sea Fleet "Saratov" proceeded through the Turkish straits to the Mediterranean Sea. Photos of the passage of the ship through the Bosphorus were published by local media.
    It is reported that the ship passed through the Turkish Straits without a “guest” Turkish flag, which is traditionally raised as a sign of respect for the country, NTV reports.
  45. Angryvinny
    Angryvinny 3 December 2015 13: 48
    +2
    Block and all!
    Treaties and so on must be fulfilled by them when the USSR opposes them. And the Turks have direct borders with the Warsaw Pact.
    Now what? You can kill Russians in Ukraine - and there is nothing for that government - even give discounts. And then just block the straits. They will say some kind of Ebola fever on Russian ships - and prove the opposite. Or something else they’ll come up with. Or simply banal withdraw from the contract and all.
    They thought they lost in one place - will they concede to you in another ????
    Ahaha - this was when everyone was torn for interests. And now just a position after a drain.
    Now the Turks are probing - they are watching the reaction.
    APU for settlements also did not immediately hit from the MLRS ...
  46. capitosha1rang
    capitosha1rang 3 December 2015 14: 01
    +1
    In addition - the Turks know how to count.
    In case of emergency.
    Take a look at this magnificent bridge. Cable-stayed construction.
    Under each rope a bar that looks like soap - and "aha"!
    No bridge - no Turkey.
    Remember, Kipling, not only an outstanding poet, but also an intelligence officer, claimed that "the West is the West, and the East is the East, and they cannot come together."
    And to disperse, having lost a bridge over the Bosphorus - easily.
  47. -Traveller-
    -Traveller- 3 December 2015 16: 57
    +1
    Has anyone read the Montreux Convention?
    I’m not too lazy and read it.
    and here is the result:

    "Article 21
    Should Turkey consider itself to be in imminent danger of war, it will have the right to apply the provisions of Article 20 of this Convention (In time of war, when Turkey is a belligerent ... the passage of warships will depend solely on the discretion of the Turkish Government.) ... ... Turkey may prevent the use of this right by the ships of the state whose position would have caused the application of this article. If the Turkish government takes advantage of the opportunities provided by the first paragraph set out above, it will notify the High Contracting Parties and the Secretary General of the League of Nations. If the Council of the League of Nations decides by a two-thirds majority that the measures thus taken by Turkey are not justified, and if such is the opinion of the majority of the High Contracting Parties signatory to this Convention, then the Turkish Government undertakes to repeal these measures, as well as those which would be adopted by virtue of Article 6 of this Convention. "


    I am certainly not an expert in international and maritime law, but nevertheless I am able to read and analyze.
    thus, if Turkey considers itself to be in danger (quite subjectively, isn’t it), then it has the right to close the straits for the military courts of the country of danger. after that, Turkey must notify (not ask permission, but notify) the League of Nations and the Secretary General (now the United Nations and Ban Ki-moon) and the signatories of the convention (Bulgaria, France, Great Britain, Greece, Japan, Romania, Turkey, Russia, Yugoslavia).
    and if at the same time 10 out of 15 members of the UN Security Council and 5 out of 9 Montreux participants decide that Turkey is not right, then the Turks will have to reopen the straits.
    For 2015, the composition of the UN Security Council is the United Kingdom, USA, France, China, Russia, Lithuania, Jordan, Nigeria, Chad, Chile, Angola, Venezuela, Malaysia, New Zealand, Spain.
    for 2016, the composition of the UN Security Council is the United Kingdom, USA, France, China, Russia, Ukraine, Japan, Senegal, Egypt, Uruguay, Angola, Venezuela, Malaysia, New Zealand, Spain.
    Now guess who on these lists those 10 countries that vote against.
  48. Lexa-149
    Lexa-149 3 December 2015 17: 32
    0
    Along the way, Kaklov continues to flatten, pin and sausage. Hallucinations from tire fumes and Maidan cookies, for which they exchanged a candy wrapper from their conscience, are never released ...
    Herbert Wells with his "War of the Worlds" is not suitable for these science fiction writers!
    Again the horror caught up out of the blue!
  49. iouris
    iouris 3 December 2015 19: 20
    +1
    I would be careful not to make predictions like "close-not close". At such a time, you need to be ready to close, then they will definitely not close.
  50. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 3 December 2015 19: 25
    0
    Quote: iouris
    I would be careful not to make predictions like "close-not close". At such a time, you need to be ready to close, then they will definitely not close.


    At all times you need to be prepared for everything.
    Since the only thing that does not change is that the times are changing.
    Yes, and so calmer.