Military Review

What were the 1937 planes of the year seen in 1942?

50
People just love to look into the future, it's not for nothing that fortunetellers, mediums and horoscopes are so popular, able to answer the question: “what’s there?” There is even a special science - forecasting, which deals with the same thing, only here people who deal with it usually don’t look into a crystal ball! To the extent of their strength, various scientific and popular science magazines have tried and tried to look behind the "curtain of time" in the past. I managed to find one interesting article on this subject in the Soviet journal "Science and Technology" No. 16 for 1937. It is called "Aviation in five years". That is, its author, on the basis of his knowledge, tried to imagine what 1942 aviation would look like. He could not have foreseen that there would be a war, but ... he wrote clearly with knowledge of the matter. Well, we know what happened in 1942 and we can compare his prophecies with reality, which is not only interesting, but also useful in many ways. Spelling and manner of presentation are fully preserved, so it’s also a kind of “piece” long gone from us stories!




“Recently, an annual convention of the American Scientific and Technical Society of Mechanics was held. At this congress, reports of the most prominent aircraft designers on the subject “Aviation in five years” were heard. These reports, built on the basis of current trends in the development of aviation, have drawn a really interesting and majestic picture of air conquest in the near future. Here, not only the possible sizes of the 1942 aircraft of the year were predicted, but also the design of aircraft engines, the economics of operation (as in the text - VO), the amenities for passengers, the control and stability of the aircraft, the achievement of higher flight speeds, as well as the development of the most difficult transoceanic airways.

Modern aircraft are the fruit of long-term engineering work and a complex production process. For the creation of an original, constructive new machine, it takes years. Therefore, the predictions of American specialists placed below are not a prophecy, but rather the opening of that veil that carefully conceals their work on designing future aircraft.

Stopping on the further development of aircraft engines with spark ignition, the speakers believe that, based on the state-of-the-art technology, the capacity of air-cooled motors may exceed 1500 l. with. while reducing the specific weight of the motor. In five years, the standard aircraft engine will weigh 0,4 kg per horse. force Even the modern 24-cylinder Nepir engine that develops the 725 l. with. at the height of 1 000 m, subject to increasing the number of revolutions and increasing the compression ratio could give power in 1 400 l. with. Soon, engines with small but numerous cylinders should win a decisive victory over engines with large cylinders due to the development of more power with the same weight. For example, a thirty-liter engine can develop in the presence of 60 cylinders 1 800 l. with. Naturally, the increase in engine power in the future will require a significant reduction in its specific weight, although, at the same time, the number and weight of auxiliary mechanisms will increase.

Future aircraft engines will be predominantly air cooled, which greatly simplifies the design of the entire power plant. On the other hand, air cooling with an increase in motor power leads to an increase in drag caused by enhanced circulation of air flow in the cooling system. For this reason, for aircraft engines with power over 1 000 l. with. liquid cooling will be used, which has the advantage that the useful surface of the cooling system can be increased without restrictions and at the same time without increasing air resistance.

Specific fuel consumption should be reduced, mainly due to the use of fuel with a high octane rating. Since the term "octane number" is relatively new and therefore unknown to our readers, we give a brief explanation of it. The octane number is an abstract numerical value obtained by comparing the degree of detonation of the test fuel with the control fuel consisting of a mixture of iso-octane and heptane. Iso-octane (С8 Н18) is characterized by low detonation and, in determining octane number, is taken for detonation as 103%. Normal heptane (С7 Н16) is distinguished by high detonation and is accepted when tested on an experimental motor as 0%. The octane number is the percentage of iso-octane in this control iso-octane-heptane mixture.

At present, the production of fuel in 100 octane is already established in small sizes - in a few years it will be as common in aviation as the best fuel in octane in 87. Now in American laboratories, fuel equivalent to 130 octanes, which contains mixtures of gasoline and synthetic mixtures of purified industrial gases, is being studied. This new type of fuel, which will be burned with the least possible degree of compression, but with maximum supercharging, will sharply increase the engine's power and, thus, reduce its specific weight. The specific fuel consumption in an aviation engine in five years will be less than 160 grams per 1 l. with. per hour instead of modern 200 g with a compression ratio of 6 — 6,5.

Renowned designer Sikorsky believes that even before 1950, it would be possible to build flying boats weighing 500 tons, designed for 1 000 passengers. But since the size of the aircraft is limited by the length of the route, the possibility of building giant air express trains on 1 000 passengers is very doubtful. In any case, in five years the weight of the largest aircraft will exceed 100 tons.



Already, at present, over the length of the air route over 7 000 km, the commercial load in 10% of the total weight of the aircraft has been almost reached. Modern aircraft could have an even greater load if they had sufficient internal usable volume. In the future, very large aircraft will be built that have the best performance in relation to the total weight. With increasing dimensions, the frontal resistance of the aircraft varies slightly less than the square of its linear dimensions, while the weight increases in a cube. As a result, each unit of volume of a large aircraft requires less engine power than a small one.

The types of aircraft now defined will exist in five years, however, the difference in their quality indicators will be greatly reduced. The size of the aircraft will increase so that the flying boats will approach the land aircraft, which are still considered the most effective. On transoceanic paths, it is precisely flying boats that should receive preference not only because of the possibility of landing on the water, but mainly because of their greater internal volume.



Together with the increase in size, the operational speed of the aircraft will also increase (in the event of a crash of another engine during flight), as well as during flights in the stratosphere. Achieving top speed in 850 km / h in five years is considered quite real. By the same date, the normal operating altitude of flights will reach 6500 — 8 500 m. The altitude of flights in 15000 — 18 000 m will be carried out only by military aircraft and, possibly, for scientific purposes. The height of the same order 30000 m can never be achieved by modern types of aircraft heavier than air. A higher ceiling of the aircraft itself allows for greater speed; in addition, it also improves navigation due to the presence of relatively better weather in the stratosphere. Huge airplanes require resolution of airborne sustainability and control problems. At present, manual control is somewhat facilitated by the aerodynamic balance of the controlled surfaces of the aircraft. If the size of the aircraft will increase dramatically, then manual control will become impossible and you will need hydraulic control. Automatic control will also be not only useful in this case, but also essential.



Regarding the aerodynamics of the aircraft of the future, current trends are already talking about further improvements. Modern aircraft have the following main features; low wing, retractable landing gear with a well-streamlined base, all-metal construction, hidden frame, split flap, improved propellers and increased specific power of the motors.

Further improvements will be in propellers with variable pitch, covering the holes of retractable landing gear, removing outdoor antennas, improving stability and control, using exhaust gases (heat) for supercharging and heating.

The constructive weight of the aircraft tends to be facilitated by improving materials, increasing knowledge of the application of loads, better placement of structural elements and increasing the size of the aircraft themselves.

Wind load with an increase in the size of the aircraft in the future as a percentage of the total weight will remain the same. With an increase in the total weight, the body of the aircraft will be lightened, engine sockets will relatively shrink with the weight of the body, and the body itself will be relatively lighter with increasing sizes.

Installed aircraft equipment as a percentage of the total weight will remain the same. For example, for flying boats weighing in 9 tons it will take 6%, and for an aircraft in 45 tons - 4% plumb. The weight of the hull of the flying boat will consistently be reduced by 1% - 2% with an increase in the total weight for every 4,5 tons.



The dirigible building of the near future will also make a big step forward. It can be said that the regular trans-ocean service of hard airships will be already a past stage and will develop into even more responsible flights. If now aircrafts are heavier than air, they are still being adapted for passenger flights across the ocean, then airships have long been working on the Europe-America line. In the coming years, airships will not be forced out by airplanes - they are too valuable additions to other existing types of transport. The further progress of the airship building will consist mainly in increasing the speed and amenities for passengers, but the size of their special growth will not receive. Now the designers are solving an interesting problem of the airship-aircraft carrier, combining the advantages of flying vehicles lighter and heavier than air. High-speed aircraft of such airship-aircraft carrier will be launched from the middle of the ocean for urgent delivery to the coast of mail, express cargo and passengers. Of course, there is no reason to speak of the military value of airship aircraft carriers.

What were the 1937 planes of the year seen in 1942?

Airship aircraft carrier on the cover of the American magazine "Modern Mechanics" №10, 1934,

It is interesting to note that the American designers are quite confident in the implementation of the five-year "plan" of aviation development predicted by them. They argue that in the more distant future, the field of engineering in the improvement of aircraft will not be narrowed.


But this is an aircraft carrier. "Modern Mechanics", March 1938 of the Year.

Summarizing the statements of US aviation specialists, we list some of the main achievements that should characterize the 1942 aircraft of the year.

Aircraft engines will have a smaller proportion and in all likelihood will not increase in linear dimensions. Air-cooled motors will retain their place, and liquid-cooled motors will be widely developed at high power. Diesel will find its application on airplanes in units of very high power. They, however, are unable to displace spark-ignited engines, which will continue to excel in aviation.

The practice will include more efficient fuel, and its specific consumption will be significantly reduced. It is expected that this reduction in fuel consumption in five years will reach 10%.

The size and quality indicators of aircraft of all types will continue to grow, while the limitation of this growth will be dictated only by the conditions of expediency and profitability, but not by technical difficulties. Apparently, one should expect growth of the total weight of the aircraft from two to three times compared with the largest of the currently existing ones. The speed will also increase, and it will be about 120 — 125% of the speeds already achieved.


Soviet TB-3 with the I-16 fighter suspended under it.

Driving will require an auxiliary control system. Further expansion of the use of automatic control will make significant changes to the requirements for the stability of the aircraft, and in the future it may also require less automatic stability.

The development of aviation is largely common to many countries. It can even be said that aviation technology is international, since it is impossible even to imagine its isolated development in any one country. Turning to the prospects for the development of our Soviet aviation, it should be boldly stated that its achievements in five years will be, in any case, no less remarkable than in America. High Soviet aviation culture to the guarantee.



As proof of this statement, it is quite enough to refer to the modern indicators of our aviation. What are the achievements of the Soviet aircraft and its valiant pilots in the 1942 year, if even now we already have such wonderful aircraft, such as, for example, ANT-25. But this machine was created in 1934 year - our experts consider it now somewhat outdated. For three years, the technician had time to step forward greatly.

Transarctic flights of the Heroes of the Soviet Union vols. Chkalov, Baidukov, Belyakov, Gromov, pilots Yumashev and Danilin on the route Moscow - the North Pole - North America have written a new remarkable page in the history of the development and achievements of world aviation. The power and high level of the Soviet aircraft industry was once again demonstrated. Soviet planes began to fly in the most difficult conditions farthest of all - they will fly in the future and higher and faster than all. "

Fig. A. Shepsa
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 2 December 2015 06: 35
    +6
    Thank you, I wonder .. as in the past, looked into the not distant future .. With the airships, here, did not guess ..
    1. aba
      aba 2 December 2015 08: 04
      +2
      They didn’t guess with the airships ..


      Yes, the article is interesting. And you are right with the airships, but the idea itself was reflected in naval aircraft carriers.
    2. igordok
      igordok 2 December 2015 08: 28
      +1
      Quote: parusnik
      Thank you, I wonder .. as in the past, looked into the not distant future .. With the airships, here, did not guess ..

      The future may not be far away, but at the turning point, many are going right.
    3. GRAY
      GRAY 2 December 2015 09: 40
      +3
      Quote: parusnik
      They didn’t guess with the airships ..

      A pair of airships - aircraft carriers, in the 30s, the Americans already had. Only the hangar was located there not from above, but from below.



      1. parusnik
        parusnik 2 December 2015 13: 42
        +1
        Yes, I agree, but by 1942 they weren’t applied .. but Vakhmistrov’s whatnot was used until 1942 .. g .. Here, guessed ..
  2. D-Master
    D-Master 2 December 2015 06: 46
    +8
    Good article. It allows us to perceive our grandfathers and great-grandfathers who lived 80 years ago not as distant, popular characters, but as absolutely the same people as we are with our aspirations and interests.
    Excellent explanation by the author of the octane number. The author explains this as a matter of course, implying that not knowing organic chemistry in the 30s of the 20th century is bad manners. He would have seen the disciples of the early 21st century. For them the word "Iso-octane" is worse than a curse.
    1. kalibr
      2 December 2015 07: 33
      +2
      Yes, the work of those years was distinguished by a very attentive attitude to the word.
  3. FID
    FID 2 December 2015 08: 49
    10
    Driving will require an auxiliary control system. Further expansion of the use of automatic control will make significant changes to the requirements for the stability of the aircraft, and in the future it may also require less automatic stability.


    Like looking into the water ... Current control systems generally assume "aircraft instability" in the air flow ... By the way, the first autopilot was "invented" in Russia, and was a free-hanging pilot's seat, through a system of blocks connected to the steering surfaces. .. Then, gyroscopes appeared, but the essence remained the same - preservation of the spatial position ...
  4. tasha
    tasha 2 December 2015 09: 34
    +2
    Interesting stuff.
    The drawing of the "Fairy" sports plane, a light bomber, was sadly pleased.

    "The development paths of aviation are largely common for many countries. One might even say that aviation technology is international, since it is impossible even to imagine its isolated development in any one country. Turning to the prospects for the development of our Soviet aviation, one should boldly assert that the achievements it will be, in any case, no less remarkable than in America in five years. The high Soviet aviation culture is a guarantee of that. "
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 2 December 2015 10: 27
      +1
      Quote: tasha
      Turning to the prospects for the development of our Soviet aviation, it should be safely asserted that its achievements in five years will, in any case, be no less remarkable than in America. High Soviet aviation culture is a guarantee.

      Meanwhile, at the Soviet aircraft factories ...
      In 1936, when examining aircraft factories No. 24 and No. 29, the Industrial Department of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks established: “A huge percentage of marriage is the result of impunity for technological processes, poor labor and technical discipline ...”

      1940 year:
      Employees of the party committee of plant No. 22 noted: "... We have bypassed three quarters of workplaces ... at any machine you open a table - there is a roll, dirty rags, etc. You tell him (worker - MM) - after all, it is disgusting to eat a roll, but he - "nothing, it will cost." Wire, scraps, etc. are lying on the machines, like a pig's ... A number of machines are broken due to the fact that they are treated ugly. ... Look what is going on in our workplaces, in lockers .. After all, all the workbenches have been broken, the locks are broken, each chair has such a chain that it would not be stolen, the vice is broken, dust, dirt - you cannot pass ... ".
      1. kalibr
        2 December 2015 10: 42
        -1
        But then one wrote that the factories in the USSR belonged to the people!
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 2 December 2015 12: 48
          +3
          Quote: kalibr
          But then one wrote that the factories in the USSR belonged to the people!

          And he was absolutely right. For marriage, low labor discipline and other problems - they were not brought by the Martians. The reason is simple - the country lacked competent personnel. The shortage was so huge that skilled workers often dictated their conditions to the plant. And the plant was forced to concede - because no one was taking off the plan, and the worker could quit in an implicit order quite calmly, even without a director’s visa — simply without going to the previous job and getting a new one. And voila - from the old job he was simply fired for absenteeism, but no one paid attention to the new one because he had to drive the plan.
          The notorious "decree prohibiting unauthorized leaving", which the "slave scoop" apologists often like to wave around, in fact established the procedure for dismissal and removed the loophole with truancy.
          1. kalibr
            2 December 2015 16: 22
            0
            That is, how did people relate to their property?
            The joke was like that in the USSR. A delegation of workers in the United States arrived at the factory, they see cars at the gates. What plant ask? Ford! What about cars? Workers!
            American workers arrived in the USSR. They see the car at the gate. Whose factory? Workers! What about a car? Directors!
            At that time, people understood what was happening, but you, Alexei, did not understand. It’s strange.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 2 December 2015 16: 31
              +2
              Quote: kalibr
              That is, how did people relate to their property?

              A kind of people - such and property. For some reason, everything was clean, tidy and decomposed among the specialists. smile
            2. Riv
              Riv 2 December 2015 17: 24
              +1
              Besides jokes. Decrees of the 30s prohibiting changing one's place of work of one’s own free will and equating absenteeism with a criminal offense did not come from a good life.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 2 December 2015 18: 58
                0
                Quote: Riv
                Besides jokes. Decrees of the 30s prohibiting changing one's place of work of one’s own free will and equating absenteeism with a criminal offense did not come from a good life.

                ICH, these decrees were also implemented very peculiarly:
                In 20-30 minutes before the lunch break, queues were already lining up at the canteens, it got to the point that the craftsmen tried not to report to the timekeepers even 30 minutes late for the workers, since the dismissal of any trained employee hit the team harder than the dismissed one.
                (c) Mikhail Mukhin. Soviet aircraft industry on the eve of WWII
                1. Riv
                  Riv 2 December 2015 22: 27
                  0
                  Well yes. Moreover, this was preserved in the future. A valuable shot could well come to work later and leave early. If he knew how to work, then a lot was forgiven.
                2. jogin
                  jogin 2 December 2015 23: 17
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Mikhail Mukhin.

                  Instead of the famous storyteller Krylov, you use an unknown storyteller Mukhin? Oh well. Tastes could not be discussed.
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  it got to the point that the craftsmen tried not to report timekeepers even about 30-minute lateness of workers

                  From the point of view of the Criminal Code, this is complicity in crime. There is a time limit for this. Master, is this a synonym for "* ridurok"? I doubt it.
                  1. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 3 December 2015 11: 57
                    +1
                    Quote: jogin
                    Instead of the famous storyteller Krylov, you use an unknown storyteller Mukhin? Oh well. Tastes could not be discussed.

                    Heh heh heh ... just because you don’t know something does not mean that it doesn’t exist.
                    Leading researcher of the IRI RAS, Doctor of Historical Sciences Mikhail Mukhin has long and closely been engaged in the history of the Soviet aircraft industry and has written a number of books and articles on the USSR aviation industry before the war and in its years.
                    It's just that he is often confused with the notorious Yuri Mukhin. smile
                    Quote: jogin
                    From the point of view of the Criminal Code, this is complicity in crime. There is a time limit for this. Master, is this a synonym for "* ridurok"? I doubt it.

                    And who will give out the plan for the worker? He has no substitute. And for the disruption of the plan, everyone will get the cap, up to the People’s Commissar.
                    The USSR of the late 30s is far from the USSR that we found. There, with qualified personnel, there was not just the fifth point - but a complete polar fox. There is no personnel reserve, the system of training workers will give the first results only in a couple of years - so that the specialists feel like kings and at the slightest pressure they begin to "fly" from factory to factory.
                    1. jogin
                      jogin 3 December 2015 13: 00
                      +1
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      Leading Researcher, IRI RAS, Doctor of Historical Sciences

                      You know, I'm a little aware of these topics. Therefore, you will not confuse me with this. M. Mukhin can easily turn out to be a specialist in Ancient Rome and a layman in your area.
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      for disrupting the plan, everyone will receive a hat, up to the people's commissar.

                      You somehow forget that for aiding a crime, the master would not have received a "hat", but would have actually sat down. These are different degrees of risk.
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      so that the specialists feel like kings and, at the slightest pressure, begin to "fly" from factory to factory.

                      God, what naive things you write. From plant to plant, they could fly only if these plants were in the same system. Gulag system.
                    2. The comment was deleted.
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          2. veteran66
            veteran66 2 December 2015 19: 45
            +1
            Quote: Alexey RA
            The shortage was so huge that skilled workers often dictated their conditions to the plant.

            This does not say that the factory belonged to the workers, they would not have treated it like that, it is like slaves in ancient Rome or Greece, the means of production of the owner, the fruits of work, too, and food for work (money, of course). Lands - to peasants, factories and factories - to workers are fairy tales from Kremlin dreamers.
            1. rubin6286
              rubin6286 2 December 2015 22: 39
              0
              The economic basis of socialism is public ownership of the means of production, the republic is the form of the state, the political foundation is the indestructible union of the working class, the working peasantry and the advanced intelligentsia, the leading and guiding force of society is the Bolshevik party. Under these conditions, factories, factories and other industrial facilities belong to the people and are controlled by the party, in the person of its appointed persons, and not abstractly. x ... knows to whom. The people are the master in the person of bodies authorized by the party. You can ironize and speculate as much as you like about this, but more recently it was just that.
              1. kalibr
                3 December 2015 06: 26
                +2
                Is this serious or joking? And when did the workers run our factories? Here "in the face", yes "controlled". Only for some reason these faces were somehow reborn very quickly, eh? And 16 million members of the party also did not go to the barricades, to defend people's property, then in 91st. Somehow they did not care about the most valuable, eh? And why? Because you are confusing the concept of the state and the people. Everything belonged to the state, 98% of the economy, that is, there was state-monopoly capitalism, covered up, yes, covered up with left phrases. Nobody began to defend this "people's" property!
                1. jogin
                  jogin 3 December 2015 10: 02
                  +1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Everything belonged to the state, 98% of the economy, that is, there was state-monopoly capitalism, covered up, yes, covered up with the left phrase.

                  Pseudo-religious feudalism. In a completely extreme absolutist form. Everything belonged to the church (in the USSR it was for some reason called the party) professing a pseudo-religion called Marxism-Leninism. Moreover, there was the Inquisition and the persecution of professing other religions. All in an adult, without panties.
                  Of course, no one came out to defend church property. And he would go out, they would unscrew his head. Because the decision to plunder this property was made at the top. Which was successfully done.
                  PS Feudalism did not go anywhere and did not transform into capitalism. Because looting the property of a suzerain is not a revolution. This is a coup. But one OEF does not change by coup, only by revolution.
                  Therefore, statements about some kind of "capitalism" are simply inappropriate. The objective and subjective prerequisites are not yet ripe. The bearers of such an ADVANCED mentality were banally destroyed by the Bolsheviks. This is where the yoke was, so is the yoke. So it's too early today. True, when a roasted cock starts pecking in the ass, it may already be so late.
                  1. kalibr
                    3 December 2015 17: 28
                    +1
                    You all said the same thing, only in other words. Fine!
                2. rubin6286
                  rubin6286 3 December 2015 11: 23
                  0
                  Whether the party was “reborn” quickly or slowly is a debatable issue. You know about 1991 only from newspapers and TV. Unarmed people went to defend the White House, and snipers and a heavy machine gun hit it from the roof of the American embassy. Who and why shot tanks at defenseless people? The White House defenders were taken out of it and passed into the hands of strong men in gloves who mercilessly beat them, and then loaded and taken away in an unknown direction. How many people were shot without trial? You say that I am confusing the concepts of “state” and “people.” This is natural because, according to the then Constitution of the USSR of 1977, the country was a nation-wide state and it was confirmed that as a result of numerous troubles, deprivations and “distortions” we have there was a “historical community of people - the Soviet people”, which later spoke in a referendum for the preservation of the USSR. Who then had the right to disobey the will of the people, who should have stood guard over his interests, what should be done in this case, I suggest you study it yourself.
                  1. jogin
                    jogin 3 December 2015 12: 45
                    +2
                    Quote: rubin6286
                    Unarmed people went to defend the White House, and snipers and a heavy machine gun hit it from the roof of the American embassy.

                    After your singing about the machine gun and snipers, I had a strong feeling that you are not healthy. It used to be, but not persistent. Now, very persistent.
                    1. rubin6286
                      rubin6286 3 December 2015 20: 10
                      0
                      Crazies are everywhere.
                      In the psychiatric hospital, only those who burned are sitting.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                  3. kalibr
                    3 December 2015 17: 33
                    +1
                    That you write to me, fell and writhe in laughter. Look in profile, I have the year of birth indicated there. In 91 they defended the White House? They shot from tanks? You, by chance, do not confuse with 93-them ... And about the US Embassy and the machine gun ... where is it from? You personally fell under him, right? Where can this be read at a non-fiction level? And as for the one who did the will of the people, it is said - every nation deserves its rulers!
                    1. rubin6286
                      rubin6286 3 December 2015 18: 30
                      0
                      I, of course, meant 1993. Everything else was in front of my eyes. You know, I was not at all funny then. Where it will be possible to read about it, I will not presume to say. But when we read that Lenin made a revolution with German money, and Gorbachev was given a bribe to recognize South Korea, Shevardnadze and Kozyrev "unfastened" several miles of Russia's maritime border in favor of Norway. Everything has its time. Do you seriously think that the Soviet people are worthy of being ruled by such scoundrels? Do you live abroad?
                      1. jogin
                        jogin 3 December 2015 19: 01
                        +1
                        Quote: rubin6286
                        that Lenin made a revolution

                        They lie, of course. 06.01.1918/1917/1918 the Bolsheviks did not carry out a revolution, but a counter-revolutionary restoration coup. Thus, capitalism has existed in Russia for less than a year, since February XNUMX. until January XNUMX This coup led to the outbreak of the Civil War. But the Bolsheviks won it (why, this is a different issue) and Russia never returned to the track of normal historical development.
                        Rather, she returned. But only at the very end of the 20th century. And she did not return in 1917, she returned to much earlier times. So, the Bolsheviks did something concrete. 100 years under the tail, no less. And taking into account the complete extermination of the national elite, so will all 300. For now, the new one will grow (if it will grow at all). These are generations and generations. It took the "House of the Romanovs" exactly 300 years.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                      3. kalibr
                        4 December 2015 07: 16
                        0
                        Obviously, if all of us were scoundrers above. Note, this is your thought, not mine! You yourself came to her by logic ... But I live in Russia. Only I carefully look around and reflect on what I see.
        2. GRAY
          GRAY 2 December 2015 14: 08
          +4
          Quote: kalibr
          But then one wrote that the factories in the USSR belonged to the people!

          Drag every nail from work - you're the boss, not the guest.
          The NKVD had something to do. The Great Patriotic War showed that their efforts were not in vain.
          Now, for some reason, pests and thieves are called "victims of Stalin's repression".
          1. kalibr
            2 December 2015 16: 23
            +1
            Do you remember in Soviet times, already in the 70s, there was a term - "thugs"? In Crocodile, they ridiculed them, but they didn't plant them ... And how much did they endure?
            1. Riv
              Riv 2 December 2015 17: 29
              +1
              Depends on what they endured. But in general, this was not considered socially dangerous. Then, after all, it was impossible to take the stolen copper blank to the scrap metal collection point and hand it over. They endured what could be useful on the farm. And since the cost of raw materials, semi-finished products and building materials in the USSR was penny, the article was usually not enough. However, try to take out the tape recorder at that time ... Term, definitely.
              1. veteran66
                veteran66 2 December 2015 19: 48
                0
                Quote: Riv
                However, try to take out the tape recorder at that time ... Term, definitely.
                But there was a law "about three ears of wheat", and tape recorders were dragged and quite often.
                1. GRAY
                  GRAY 2 December 2015 20: 11
                  +2
                  Quote: veteran66
                  But there was also a law "about three spikelets"

                  The law was adopted during the famine - a necessary measure.
                  West against the USSR introduced a gold embargo.
                  The first step to this is the refusal to accept gold from the USSR, the second step is an embargo (import ban) on the supply of Soviet goods to the West. In fact, export of timber and oil products is prohibited. That is, all that paid for the supply of Western cars for the destroyed Russian economy.

                  The first five-year plan begins in 1929, the United States introduced restrictions in 1930-1931, a similar decree was issued in France in 1930. On April 17, 1933, the British government announced an embargo on the main export goods of the USSR. It covers up to 80% of our exports.

                  First, the West refused to accept gold from the USSR as payment, then everything else, except grain. The Stalinist leadership is faced with a choice: either refusal to restore industry, i.e. surrender to the West, or the continuation of industrialization, leading to a terrible internal crisis. The Bolsheviks will take the grain from the peasants - there is a very high probability of starvation, which in turn is likely to lead to an internal explosion and the displacement of power. In any case, the West wins.

                  Stalin decides to go ahead. In the summer of 1929, collectivization of agriculture began. The state collects grain and sends it to the West, there are no stocks. Hope Stalin for a new crop. It turns out to be small - in a country of drought. A country cannot buy food either for gold or for a currency, because it does not exist because of the embargo.

                  Attempts are being made to immediately import grain from Persia, where they agree to accept gold. Do not have time - a disaster happens. That in Ukraine is now called the Holodomor. In 1932-1933, a lot of people die, and only after that, immediately after that (!) The West is again ready to accept oil, timber and precious metals from the Bolsheviks. In 1934, grain exports from the USSR generally ceased.
                  1. jogin
                    jogin 2 December 2015 22: 18
                    0
                    Quote: GRAY
                    In 1932-1933, a lot of people die, and only after that, immediately after that (!) The West is again ready to accept oil, timber and precious metals from the Bolsheviks.

                    Why are you quoting the delirium of a clearly unhealthy author?
                2. rubin6286
                  rubin6286 2 December 2015 22: 46
                  0
                  Your comments are somewhat smarter than those of jogin, but the comparative base is also chosen incorrectly, and weak special knowledge, as I already wrote, leads to a misunderstanding and assessment of historical events, a simplified interpretation in assessing certain facts and phenomena.

                  Hegel said that "being determines consciousness."
                  Russia at the beginning of the last century was an agrarian country, where 80% of the population was illiterate. Large-scale industrial production was only in its infancy. The country did not produce modern machine tools, instruments and materials, and much of what surrounds us today was not of its own, but of foreign production - steam locomotives, cars, sea vessels, airplanes, etc. etc. Pick up literature, the Internet, and learn more about it.
                  Now about being. Remember, as with Nekrasov: “I worked with all my strength, the poor man was malnourished, and the master fed the hunting dogs to the full!” How and where workers lived in cities that they could afford, I also suggest that you study for yourself. Let me remind you that a person’s culture is determined by education and upbringing, and a person receives most of the upbringing in the family. The revolution destroyed the traditional way of family life, and with that state of being and education in a hungry, cold, tortured civil war country, where did a conscious attitude to work come from. The task of educating the new man-builder of socialism was one of the most important tasks of the party at that time.

                  From my own experience I know that it is easiest to raise a child, but before a certain period, but what about an adult? If explanatory and educational work does not help, then another principle appears - “Beat determines consciousness” and measures of coercive influence come into play. They led some to exile, others to the Gulag, third to the “wall”, and many “excesses” were allowed, but the goal was achieved. In the prewar years, more precisely since March 1940, the level of labor and technological discipline at enterprises was not inferior to the advanced European countries. It was worse with being, but the “beat” did its job. Living conditions improved slowly, the situation was not better with consciousness, but the fear of punishment affected him.
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      4. jogin
        jogin 2 December 2015 11: 06
        -5
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Meanwhile, at the Soviet aircraft factories ...

        What, only in aircraft factories? In all factories. And until the very last day. From this wild production costs. Because the cost of marriage fell on her. Slave labor is never productive. Therefore, feudal society (socialism, this is one of its varieties) will always lose in competition with capitalist society. And this is precisely what determines the mandatory change in the OEF.
        However, this also applies to the products of pre-revolutionary Russia. The most vivid example is the Russo-Japanese War and the so-called imperial Russian fleet. A collection of thieves and a gang of beggars. Surprising is the surprise (such is the taftalogy) of the masses regarding the results of the war at sea, and especially Tsushima. For some reason, the masses are sure that buckets with nuts (with nice names) for some reason could defeat normal ships. The grounds for such a "belief" are completely incomprehensible.
        1. FID
          FID 2 December 2015 11: 23
          +8
          I apologize, but capitalism is not a form of slavery ??? If you want, sell your rabsil for pennies, you want to die of hunger ... Freedom, right?
          1. jogin
            jogin 2 December 2015 11: 32
            -2
            Quote: SSI
            If you want, sell your rabsil for pennies, you want to die of hunger ...

            Pay attention, there is a choice. And also there is a choice to sell rabsil for pennies here and now or for expensive, but in another city / village.
            Under feudalism there is no choice. He is obliged to work on his own collective farm. For the sticks. You do not want to work for the sticks on the collective farm, you will work for the balance in the camp. Like a parasite, and even worse, like a contra (fist). Who in such circumstances will tear * opu?
            1. FID
              FID 2 December 2015 11: 57
              +4
              And exactly there is a choice? Are you sure about that? And are you ready to leave your home in another city? And there is VERY expensive for my slave? And if I am a specialist in a narrow field and where to find a job?
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. jogin
                jogin 2 December 2015 12: 25
                -2
                Once again, I was talking about a bourgeois country. In a feudal country, even more or less liberal of them, this is not easy. A bunch of restrictions on the free movement of the population. And the standard of living is traditionally not high. In other words, there are problems, it is.
              3. The comment was deleted.
                1. FID
                  FID 2 December 2015 12: 32
                  +6
                  Retraining ... and who will do my job? Not only will there be one SPECIALIST in aviation less, but God forbid, who came in my place, does not have my knowledge and skills, will send not only one, but several dozen people to the better world ... I haven’t heard something, so that the experts leave Seattle, and the managers - to hell with them, let them ride ... They benefit from them, like last year’s snow!
                  1. Amurets
                    Amurets 2 December 2015 12: 43
                    +4
                    Quote: SSI
                    Retraining ... and who will do my job? Not only will there be one SPECIALIST in aviation less, but God forbid, who came in my place, does not have my knowledge and skills, will send not only one, but several dozen people to the better world ... I haven’t heard something, so that the experts leave Seattle, and the managers - to hell with them, let them ride ... They benefit from them, like last year’s snow!

                    Bravo Sergey Ivanovich! What we were taught was to be proud of our profession and to do our job in such a way that it would not be embarrassing for our work. It’s no joke, I’m like that.
                    1. jogin
                      jogin 2 December 2015 12: 51
                      -2
                      Quote: Amurets
                      What we were taught was to be proud of our profession and do our job in such a way that we were not ashamed of our work.

                      Be proud. Master a normal "bread" profession and be proud. Or be proud of yours if it feeds you well enough.
                      And if he doesn’t feed, then why should she be proud? What are the reasons for this?
                  2. jogin
                    jogin 2 December 2015 12: 48
                    -4
                    Quote: SSI
                    Retraining ... and who will do my job?

                    This is not your problem. A job for which no one pays is needed.
                    Quote: SSI
                    and who came instead of me, not possessing my knowledge and skills, God forbid, send to the better world not one, but several dozen people ...

                    And again, this is not your problem. Learn how to think globally. This is a bad habit. Like smoking.
                    Quote: SSI
                    Something I did not hear that specialists left Seattle

                    Perfectly. Go to Seattle.
                  3. veteran66
                    veteran66 2 December 2015 19: 54
                    +1
                    Quote: SSI
                    Retraining ... and who will do my job?

                    But why change it then? If you are in demand, then they pay well and do not need to change anything. Or do you sacrifice yourself at work?
              4. veteran66
                veteran66 2 December 2015 19: 52
                0
                Quote: SSI
                And if I am a specialist in a narrow field and where to find a job?

                As a rule, it is precisely such specialists that are in great demand.
                1. rubin6286
                  rubin6286 2 December 2015 23: 32
                  +1
                  The indisputable achievement of socialism was the real system of social guarantees of citizens for work, free education. healthcare, pensions, etc. The main thing is that the country needed a person and could find its place, regardless of the presence of a profession. Now everything is either completely wrong, or far from it. All this nonsense about retraining, changing jobs and even residence is complete nonsense and is available only to units. “A well-fed hungry one doesn’t understand” - it always has been, but if this one is full, not because he is smarter and more capable, but because he is a thief, no one will ever put up with it. This is the root of all our contradictions and the eternal source of revolutions. That's why, in the language of a joke:
                  “A true Russian patriot should have: children in England, an account in Switzerland, a house in Germany, a villa in the Canaries, an apartment in America, a position in Russia.”
                  1. jogin
                    jogin 3 December 2015 01: 09
                    +1
                    Quote: rubin6286
                    The indisputable achievement of socialism was the real system of social guarantees of citizens for work, free education. healthcare, pensions

                    Free cheese only comes in a mousetrap. Everything was paid for by underpayment of wages. And the quality of the "services" was below the plinth. We did, we know. By the way, labor was not a right, but a duty. For evading this duty, they were imprisoned.
                    About free retirement benefits, that's strong. Keep joking, you are doing well.
                    Quote: rubin6286
                    All this nonsense about retraining, changing jobs and even residence is complete nonsense and is available only to units.

                    The scoops who have grown their butts to the sofa and always grumble "for a bad life" do not understand this. Take a look around. Around the crowd of Tajiks who came from another state. Moldovans and Ukrainians. Without citizenship. It is available to them, but to Russian scoops (these are not Russians, these are others), no. The scoops must be given. They themselves cannot get anything. Apparently this is the last degree of degradation.
                    1. rubin6286
                      rubin6286 3 December 2015 14: 51
                      0
                      I have always been taught that a person only then receives satisfaction from his work, when he can do it. Creativity is the engine of social progress. In all other cases, when a person is forced to adapt to circumstances, his work becomes worse than hard labor and the point here is not only and not so much in payment. Advice on finding a “bread” profession, retraining, changing a place of residence - he gives from them philistine, frank demagogy, and complete ignorance of life.
                      When I watch music programs, I pay attention to the fact that in most cases, vocalists perform songs of the Soviet, and not the modern period. Usually they say this: "What a life - such and songs!" If life is "not very", then there are no songs. You, as I understand it, like this life, but such a minority. I haven’t seen people who since 1992 achieved something in it with honest work and talent, but they are full of scammers and outright thieves against other workers who are “boring gray masses”, “scoops” for you, etc. etc. living in a "peripheral" country. Take a look around, going outside between 17 p.m. and 18 p.m., look at the faces of young and old, Russian and non-Russian people and you will see in them not a joyful gleam of eyes and a smile, but concern. The existence of most of them under the new government did not get better (and under socialism they could have been worth it), I’m not talking about consciousness. In today's conditions, not only they, but their children will not be able to make their being worthy. They are not guilty of this, and then like A.I. Chernyshevsky’s: “What should I do?” and as I already wrote, "in the desire of all to live better is the root of all our contradictions and the eternal source of revolutions."

                      I do not think that we are of the same age. I am 63 years old. I am a professional military pilot, test engineer, and in addition, a professional lawyer with almost 20 years of experience. My children graduated from high school with a gold medal, with a university diploma, they work in a specialty that they chose not as a "bread", but by vocation. It’s completely independent people. In their free time they go in for sports and will probably give me grandchildren soon.
                      1. kalibr
                        3 December 2015 17: 45
                        0
                        Victor Vilenovich, dear, you write - I have not seen people who would have achieved ... honest ... Have you tried to look in the mirror? And your children are crooks? No! Or are they "the rest of the workers"? Also no. There are a lot of "rogues" don't you know that? And I especially did not see joyful smiles under socialism, especially in the 80s. You're 63, I'm 61, the difference is small, right? So I trust your experience, and why don't you trust mine, right? By the way, we are almost colleagues, since I have been working at the Faculty of Law among professional lawyers for many years. So there are always those who are dissatisfied with the changes, they are always the majority, but who is paying attention to them? The Chinese have the most unkind wish: that they would live in times of change.
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 2 December 2015 13: 03
              +2
              Quote: jogin
              Under feudalism there is no choice. He is obliged to work on his own collective farm. For the sticks. You do not want to work for the sticks on the collective farm, you will work for the balance in the camp.

              What horrors are you telling ...
              Of native collective farm it was possible to leave at least in two ways - legal and illegal. The first is through military service. The second - having left for the city to a factory or to the next "building of communism". The labor shortage was such that they did not pay attention to the documents. This is how my mother's relatives moved to St. Petersburg: first, the family sent one of the "young", he got a job at the plant, reconnoitred the situation - and dragged everyone into the city.
              1. veteran66
                veteran66 2 December 2015 19: 56
                0
                Quote: Alexey RA
                The second - having left for the city to a factory or to the next "building of communism".

                from one hard labor to another? )))) although it’s also a way out, but it’s not free, but through conscription.
              2. jogin
                jogin 2 December 2015 21: 19
                0
                Quote: Alexey RA
                The first is through military service.

                They forgot to add that after the service they had to return to their native collective farm. Or to be recruited to a "Komsomol construction site" or to a mine.
                Quote: Alexey RA
                The second - having left for the city to a factory or to the next "construction of communism"

                It was not rolled into the city to the factory. I had to get under the set. And that was also not easy. More or less simple was the option for the "Komsomol construction" or in the mine. From one slaughterhouse to another.
                Here is such a scoop had "freedom". There is something to miss today.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. rubin6286
            rubin6286 2 December 2015 17: 52
            +3
            Sergey Ivanovich, dear!
            The result of my communication with jogin can be expressed in a Jewish joke:
            “Sema! Look at these callused hands. A man does not know how to work his head. "
            Usually he writes all sorts of x ... u about the fleet, and now he has taken up aviation and production. There have always been many such talkers in the country, and at a certain period they filled the Gulag, where they conscientiously worked "taking off their glasses" and comprehending life, in the literal and figurative sense of the word.
            1. FID
              FID 2 December 2015 18: 12
              +2
              Quote: rubin6286
              There have always been many such talkers in the country, and at a certain period they filled the Gulag, where they conscientiously worked "taking off their glasses" and comprehending life, in the literal and figurative sense of the word.

              It’s a pity, too many nowadays are not very literate, but very smart ... Thanks for the support!
              1. spech
                spech 2 December 2015 18: 48
                +1
                too many are now divorced not very literate, but very smart ...

                This is necessary in the quote box. good
              2. jogin
                jogin 2 December 2015 21: 06
                -2
                Quote: SSI
                It’s a pity, too many are now divorced not very literate, but very smart ...

                Apparently you are about yourself. Self-critical, appreciated. Continue to burn very competently and very cleverly burn at work. Then get a certificate of honor. May be.
            2. veteran66
              veteran66 2 December 2015 19: 57
              0
              Quote: rubin6286
              “Sema! Look at these callused hands. A man does not know how to work his head. "

              I do not understand, are you talking to yourself ???
              1. jogin
                jogin 2 December 2015 21: 01
                0
                Quote: veteran66
                I do not understand, are you talking to yourself ???

                About myself. The gorlopans have such a method. The mind is not enough for the arguments. That goes to the individual. And they like to shut up their mouths with minuses. What to take from them. Boring gray mass.
              2. rubin6286
                rubin6286 3 December 2015 00: 06
                -3
                No, this is to the level of intelligence of a young man. You have not read his comments about the fleet. This is generally p..ts. Russia for him is a "peripheral state." Wow the periphery - 1/6 of the land. However, this is not surprising, because today everyone is still taught, and only one who wants to learn and who can be taught needs to be taught.
                1. jogin
                  jogin 3 December 2015 01: 32
                  +2
                  Quote: rubin6286
                  No, this is to the level of intelligence of a young man.

                  You would follow your level, my dear. Write different nonsense of blissful content. Yes, and I’m most likely to be your father. He found a young man, damn it.
                  Quote: rubin6286
                  You have not read his comments about the fleet. This is generally p..ts

                  Want to say something specific? Or do you live by the principle of Baba Yaga, who is always against it? Accustomed to laudatory communist agitation for any reason and without it? Wean, it's time.
                  Quote: rubin6286
                  Russia for him is a "peripheral state"

                  Which one? 2,4% of the world level (IMF data). Obviously not pulling on the navel of the earth. Even in fairly peripheral India 2,65%. Brazil, which generally has HZ and HZ, has 3%. It was in 2014. Now energy prices have fallen, so the percentage for 2015 will be even less.
                  Quote: rubin6286
                  Wow peripherals - 1/6 of the land

                  And what's this? To the rain? You still measure in altitude.
                  Quote: rubin6286
                  and you need to teach only those who want to learn and whom it is possible to teach.

                  I agree. Apparently it’s not possible to teach you anything yet. Therefore, it is not necessary to teach.
                2. The comment was deleted.
            3. jogin
              jogin 2 December 2015 21: 08
              +1
              Quote: rubin6286
              can be expressed in a Jewish joke

              I see that mental activity did not develop beyond Jewish jokes. And apparently it will not develop. My condolences. You can’t be offended by people like you. Sin.
            4. The comment was deleted.
          4. veteran66
            veteran66 2 December 2015 19: 51
            +1
            Quote: SSI
            If you want, sell your rabsil for pennies, you want to die of hunger ... Freedom, right?

            This is where you saw pennies? Do you know how much unemployment benefit is in the USA or in Germany? I am already silent about the salary of a skilled worker. And what will you prove to me that a 4th-degree turner with his 150 rubles could buy a car or an apartment in the USSR? )))))
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. jogin
                jogin 3 December 2015 01: 16
                +2
                Quote: rubin6286
                There was no unemployment in the USSR.

                But there was a general idleness in the workplace. It was impossible to avoid it, because it was fraught with prison.
                Quote: rubin6286
                Turner 4 categories with a salary of 150 rubles / month. could at the enterprise be on the line for the purchase of a car. A VAZ-2101 Zhiguli car (a penny) cost 5500 rubles, a Moskvich-412 car cost 4500 rubles, a Zaporozhets 3600 rubles.

                Turner 4 categories then received 100 rubles. When he began to receive 150 rubles, Zhiguli 11 models already cost 7200 rubles, Moskvich 7500 rubles, and Constipation 5400 rubles. Calculate how much an honest turner had to not eat or drink to buy Constipation. Correctly, it was called robbery in broad daylight. But there was no alternative.
                Quote: rubin6286
                People entered into housing cooperatives at enterprises and purchased apartments.

                But there were just such units. The apartments were very expensive. Noticeably more expensive than it is now.
                1. rubin6286
                  rubin6286 3 December 2015 21: 01
                  0
                  Jogin!

                  You have meanders in your brain, like cash registers in a supermarket - there are a lot of them, but not all of them work.
                  1. jogin
                    jogin 3 December 2015 21: 11
                    0
                    Quote: rubin6286
                    You have meanders in your brain, like cash registers in a supermarket - there are a lot of them, but not all of them work.

                    Getting personal and trying to scandal? What for? It won't help you. Your "level" has long been clear to everyone.
                    You need to read more and write less. To learn, it is never too late. So your Jesus Ulyanov, nicknamed Lenin, agreed with this. So go ahead. And more polite.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Amurets
          Amurets 2 December 2015 12: 34
          +4
          Quote: jogin
          For some reason, the masses are sure that buckets with nuts (with nice names) for some reason could defeat normal ships. The grounds for such a "belief" are completely incomprehensible.

          But for some reason, foreign-made ships: Varyag, Retvizan produced by the USA or Tsesarevich produced in France had no defects? Varyag and Retvizan: permanently scalded stokers because of unreliable boilers, and Varyag also unreliable cars. The Tsarevich forgot about machine malfunctions only when Spare parts were manufactured at the Franco-Russian plant in St. Petersburg. And when the fleet was built according to small and large shipbuilding programs, there was also enough marriage from foreign companies. Both from German factories and from factories in England and France. The Fourth Union and the Entente did not yet developed so that you can’t write off the enemies here.
          1. jogin
            jogin 2 December 2015 13: 05
            0
            Quote: Amurets
            Varangian and Retvisan: permanently scalded stokers due to unreliable boilers, and Varangian is also unreliable cars.

            Shoes shake the bad dancer. However, this concerned only the Varangian. Retvisan had no particular problems.
            Quote: Amurets
            Tsesarevich forgot about machine malfunctions only when spare parts were manufactured at the Franco-Russian plant in St. Petersburg

            Don't make me laugh. The Franco-Russian factory was a "screwdriver". He himself did not manufacture anything, only placed orders in France. And he collected finished products in Russia. I saved on import duties.
            Quote: Amurets
            there was also enough marriage from foreign companies. Both from German factories and from factories in England and France.

            When ordering foreign trash, enough. But in normal places, Russia rarely ordered, expensively. Therefore, the marriage was.
            Quote: Amurets
            The quadruple alliance and the Entente had not yet developed, so you can’t blame the enemies here.

            No need for spy mania. Not appropriate. Elementary economics. You order a "firm", you receive the goods. But you pay money. If you want to save money, you order something that looks like a company. Cheaper. With unpredictable results. Russia has always been saving. From this and the result. Normal imported ships in its composition can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
            Varangian, Retvisan, Bogatyr. Perhaps this is all.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 2 December 2015 13: 24
              +5
              Quote: jogin
              Shoes shake the bad dancer. However, this concerned only the Varangian. Retvisan had no particular problems.

              It was observed. Lack of speed in tests even when machines exceed design capacity, vehicle breakdown when trying to reach contract 18 knots, when trying to develop 18 knots. with our team - a burst tube and 3 corpses.
              Quote: jogin
              When ordering foreign trash, enough. But in normal places, Russia rarely ordered, expensively. Therefore, the marriage was.
              No need for spy mania. Not appropriate. Elementary economics. You order a "firm", you receive the goods. But you pay money. If you want to save money, you order something that looks like a company. Cheaper. With unpredictable results. Russia has always been saving. From this and the result.

              Ah-ha-ha ... I mean, Vickers is also a trash heap? Or have you forgotten about "Rurik-2"?
              During acceptance tests in England of the cruiser "Rurik", the lack of strength of the foundations of all 10 "and 8" turrets of guns was revealed. When testing the cruiser's artillery with salvo firing at the traverse, it was found that the rigid drums were detached from the lower armored deck and the bulkheads underneath were deformed.

              Vickers interrupted the test and installed drum reinforcements ... which in the subsequent tests began to collapse already on the seventh volley.
              By order of Krylov, the guns were deployed along the traverse at a zero elevation angle - in this position, the forces that detached the tower foundation from the deck were maximum. According to the test conditions, it was supposed to make 12 two-gun volleys from each tower, and the reinforcements successfully withstood the first five of them. This gave the Vickers representative reason to propose to stop testing, but the head of the ITC insisted on continuing firing. After the seventh salvo at the bow mount, which could not withstand the 430-ton recoil of full volleys of 10 "guns, the rivets were handed over, and after the eighth they began to cut off. A similar depressing picture was observed in the right bow 8 "tower - after ten combat volleys, 128 goujons and rivets were handed over, and the heads of two rivets bounced off.
              1. jogin
                jogin 2 December 2015 21: 27
                0
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Lack of speed in tests even when machines exceed design capacity, vehicle breakdown when trying to reach contract 18 knots, when trying to develop 18 knots. with our team - a burst tube and 3 corpses.

                Why are you telling tales? The screws were replaced with optimal ones and Retvisan easily walked 19 knots. He even went to the Japanese after lifting more than 19 knots. And without any corpses.
                Quote: Alexey RA
                that is, Vickers is also a trash heap? Or have you forgotten about "Rurik-2"?

                Rurik 2 was built after the REV. In addition, Vickers, i.e. half-wash (hello Mikasa), obviously not Armstrong, or at least Thames Iron Works. And the ship was strange, this Rurik 2. It’s hard to call it good. And determining the destination is even more difficult. I do not consider it good, therefore I did not mention it among the good ones.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 3 December 2015 12: 11
                  0
                  Quote: jogin
                  Why are you telling tales? The screws were replaced with optimal ones and Retvisan easily walked 19 knots.

                  However, Crump would rather agree to pay a fine ($ 15) than to put an armadillo on the dock to replace the screws.

                  That is, the manufacturer delivered a substandard, which had already been redone by the Customer. Yes, and blackmailed the Customer:
                  Crump referred to a strong current in the test area, which itself was suspected, but was not specified in the contract, and further, in the most refined form, said that there were already buyers for the battleship, naming among them such a well-known English company as Vickers. which offered $ 1 million more than the cost of the ship. "I consider it my duty to notify Your Highness," he wrote to the Admiral-General, "as this case may lead to diplomatic negotiations."

                  Quote: jogin
                  Rurik 2 was built after the REV. In addition, Vickers, i.e. half-wash (hello Mikasa), obviously not Armstrong, or at least Thames Iron Works.

                  Thames Iron Works - hello Fuji. Armstrong - Hello "Yashima" and "Takasago". smile
                  1. jogin
                    jogin 3 December 2015 13: 21
                    0
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    That is, the manufacturer delivered a substandard, which had already been redone by the Customer.

                    In fact, the selection of screws is a common thing after the construction of the ship. And there is no talk about substandard here and cannot be. In this case, Crump wanted to get paid for it, because a simple dock would have cost him more than the amount of the fine (traditional highest professionalism of Russian officials). The Russian side refused to pay, Crump refused to engage in selection. I had to deal with this with the customer. Everything is logical. Just a business.
                    What bothers you? That Crump did not want to work for free or at a loss? But for some reason this does not bother me.
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Thames Iron Works - hello Fuji. Armstrong - Hello "Yashima" and "Takasago".

                    Yes that's right. Great for their time were ships. If you already mentioned the Armstrong shipyard, then you can still recall Izumo, Iwate, Asam, Tokiwa, Niitaku, Ioshino, Naniva, Tokachiho and Izumi. These are all products of the world's leading shipyard. Do not forget Yakumo from the Volcano (quite successfully competed with Armstrong). Kasagi from Kramp. Yes, and St. Nazaire, this is not Toulon. Even in mediocre Clydebank, only one ship was ordered (ancient Chioda does not count). And in the same Vickers, too. Those. Japan's fleet was built mainly on first-class shipyards. Only Kure's products were frankly doubtful. But there was built mostly a minor trifle.
                    Compare this to the RIF. Everything is exactly the same, just the opposite.
                    1. jogin
                      jogin 3 December 2015 21: 23
                      0
                      Quote: jogin
                      If you already mentioned the Armstrong shipyard, then you can still recall Izumo, Iwate, Asam, Tokiwa, Niitaku, Ioshino, Naniva, Tokachiho and Izumi.

                      But I didn't even notice the elephant. This is me about Hatsus. The most powerful EBR RYAV. He, too, was from Armstrong. By the way, Thames Iron Works was Armstrong's "daughter". Therefore, twin ships were often built there. This I mean that Sikishima from her was a double (sistership) of Hatsuse (just as Fuji was a double of Yashima). Simpler and worse than Hatsuse, but better than all the other EBR RYAV.
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        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 2 December 2015 12: 53
          +3
          Quote: jogin
          What, only in aircraft factories? In all factories. And until the very last day. From this wild production costs. Because the cost of marriage fell on her. Slave labor is never productive. Therefore, feudal society (socialism, this is one of its varieties) will always lose in competition with capitalist society. And this is precisely what determines the mandatory change in the OEF.

          What does slave labor have to do with it? The reason for marriage in another is the low level of education of new workers in the 30s. Alas, the country was to receive massive literate cadres only in the early 40s.
          And before that, skilled workers were valued almost worth their weight in gold - factory directors even lured them from each other. But these workers used their privileged position, often engaging in zealousness (such as transferring work from working time to overtime), and a little bit threatened to leave.
          1. kalibr
            2 December 2015 13: 44
            0
            And in 1962, were the frames already literate? But look at the archives of the Penza OK CPSU. Just at the time of the Caribbean crisis, military acceptance rejected the 7 from the 27 gun guidance stations, and the marriage of radio fuses reached 80%. Of the 5 communist labor brigades, 2 disintegrated due to drunkenness - data from the factory’s party activism report.
            1. Riv
              Riv 2 December 2015 17: 44
              +3
              What does "marriage have achieved" mean? Acceptance for similar products is carried out in batches. A sample is made, tested and if the percentage of rejects in it is not higher than the established one, then the entire batch is considered suitable. Or unusable, respectively. So: the quality standards for military products were then simply draconian. Roughly speaking: one detonator from the sample did not work - everything is rejected. And there are ten thousand of these fuses in the batch and several hundred in the sample. That is, 80% can really mean that in fact the marriage rate was hundredths of a percent.

              Suvorov / Rezun wrote about the life of the Soviet tanks: 500 hours. Then he did not lie a single gram. What should be the qualifications and responsibilities of workers in order to achieve such a result?
              1. kalibr
                2 December 2015 21: 14
                0
                I am not an expert in technical subtleties. I saw the documents. It was written there that such a% was no good, and the Communists should lead the workers along ... led and brought!
                And in the party archive there was a folder "naked women" (confiscated since 1929). Not everyone was given it, but I had a friend there. It is now girls who take selfies and post themselves on the Web ... and then ... they took pictures! Yellow, crumpled ... with a "naive signature for memory." People - at all times there were people.
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          2. jogin
            jogin 2 December 2015 21: 14
            0
            Quote: Alexey RA
            And before that, skilled workers were valued almost worth their weight in gold - factory directors even lured them from each other.

            I heard a lot about this. The factory directors knew a lot. But not a single luring was ever met. Maybe I'm out of luck.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            But these workers used their privileged position, often engaging in zealousness (such as transferring work from working time to overtime), and only a little threatened to leave.

            An employee quitting his job lost the queue for housing. Therefore, all talk about "threatened" is empty. This could theoretically be the case if a person has already received a non-service living space. Everything else is fiction.
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  5. bionik
    bionik 2 December 2015 10: 21
    +2
    The Link project was developed in the USSR in the 1930s and early 1940s by engineer V. S. Vakhmistrov and based on the use of a carrier aircraft carrying from one to five fighters to increase their radius of action (I-16 fighter wing TB-3). Light tank T-38 on the suspension DPT-2 under TB-3 from the squadron named after the Communist Youth International. The icon of this organization is painted on the nose of the car. 1939
  6. Amurets
    Amurets 2 December 2015 10: 57
    +4
    It is very interesting to watch forecasts. What has come true and what has not come true. But not in five, but in 10 years some ideas have already come true. By the way, in 1941 I-16 fighters launched from the TB-3 aircraft destroyed the Chernovodsky bridge in Romania on which there were trains with oil for Germany.
  7. Olezhek
    Olezhek 2 December 2015 11: 10
    +3
    Thank you for the historical material - a valuable thing.
  8. Hydrograph
    Hydrograph 2 December 2015 14: 40
    +3
    An article about views on the future development of aviation, much is predicted. And you about how bad it was in the USSR, in Russia it was with production, for some reason the Gulag was dragged. Article plus, informative.
    1. kalibr
      2 December 2015 16: 25
      +1
      Did I drag the gulag? There is not a word about him in the article!
  9. rubin6286
    rubin6286 2 December 2015 19: 17
    0
    With age, much of what is read is perceived differently. I will not criticize or dispute the content of the article “Aviation in Five Years” published in the Soviet journal “Science and Technology” No. 16 for 1937, understanding that in a “closed” society you can write and publish only what is allowed by censorship. It is more interesting to think from today's perspective about what is not written, and why - it was a secret or just about it, at least we did not know then. It is more interesting to analyze both achievements and shortcomings. Thanks to the author. It was interesting to learn about the prospects for the development of aviation in the world on the eve of World War II.
    1. kalibr
      2 December 2015 21: 16
      0
      This is also what interests me the old magazines. And the newspapers! I read the whole TRUTH from 1918 to 53 for a year and further selectively to 85. Very instructive.
  10. Ruby
    Ruby 2 December 2015 23: 03
    0
    The article is a big plus. The romantic age of aviation, the truth has grown into a big war. I think no prophet in the 37th could have foreseen jet aircraft and atomic bombings.