Military Review

The new concept of the Russian Aerospace Force of the Russian Federation will include a radical response to the Turkish aggression against the Su-24M

117



As is known, excessive tolerance towards those who quietly interact with our direct enemy behind our back can lead to a “backstab” at the most unexpected moment and into the most “weakened” zone. This is exactly what happened to the Su-24M tactical bomber of the Russian Aerospace Forces in the morning of November 24. Multipurpose F-16 Turkish fighter aircraft over the territory of the Syrian Arab Republic (in 1-2 km from the Turkish border) intercepted our Su-24M. The Russian defense ministry said it had used a short-range air-to-air missile with EKGSN (AIM-9 “Sidewinder”). As a result of hitting a missile defense system, presumably in the ZPS of the aircraft, a fire occurred in the power plant and damage to the bomber tail planes, which led to the crash of the vehicle. Two pilots were able to quickly eject, but as they approached the surface, Oleg Peshkov, a defenseless vehicle commander, was fired from a rifle gun. weapons, and on the ground Syrian turkomans-jihadists, who hold the northern regions of Lattakia province (near the Turkish border), cruelly punished him; the second pilot-navigator Konstantin Murakhtin could escape from the militants and was later rescued by the Syrian army together with the Russian special forces; and in an organized search and rescue operation, we also lost the young Marines fighter Alexander Pozynic. This tragic accident forced to completely rethink the tactics of application and security measures of the Russian Aerospace Force in the Middle East.


All factors confirmed by a criminal violation of all international standards of air borders protection are confirmed by ground-based radar equipment of objective control of Syrian air defense systems, downed Su-24 radio electronic equipment, as well as evidence provided by a rescued piloted navigator of the Russian Aerospace Force Konstantin Murakhtin. First, the operators of the Turkish air defense and air force did not make any warnings on any of the radio channels; secondly, the Turkish F-16C did not even align with our Su-24M and did not make any warning maneuvers, but immediately entered the rear hemisphere (tail) of our car; thirdly, they used a short-range air-to-air missile with ICGSN, which did not allow the aircraft’s radar exposure warning system (STR) to record the fact of a rocket attack and make an anti-missile maneuver. If during the attack the AIM-120C AMRAAM rocket was used, the Birch SPO would immediately detect the radiation of its active radar seeker and the pilots would receive at least a fraction of their time on the anti-missile maneuver, but the Turks would use the classic of the genre of real cunning cowards


Since the receipt of information on the interception of the Su-24M, many versions have been worked out, including intercepting with ground-based air defense systems of Turkey, but this version was thrown back, since the plane did not perform anti-aircraft maneuvers and flew at an altitude of 6 km. What does this indicate? Practically all modern MANPADS with passive IKGSN, including Igloo-S, RBS-90 or Stinger, which have a maximum interception height of 4000 m, could not even theoretically be able to intercept Su-24M, returning to Hmeymim airbase at an altitude of 6000 meters. It was not used for the “Drying” and “Hawk” or “Patriot” air defense missile systems, the missiles of which have PARGSN, and therefore the illumination of the MRLS of the complexes, which would force the pilots to maneuver, since the Birch SPO would certainly have responded to the radiation from the AN ground radar. / MPQ-50 and AN / MPQ-46 (SACO and RPN SAM "Hawk") or AN / MPQ-53 ("Patriot"). For this reason, there remains the only version confirmed by the Turks: the interception was performed by F-16. And this was done really suddenly and the most insidious method of "backstab." After the rescue of Konstantin Murakhtin, and his interview for the media, all of the above version was fully confirmed, and finally all the myths were dispelled on November 27, after the press conference of the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Award Alliance V. Bondarev.

The Turks had already planned their aggressive action long before the combat operation of the Su-24M, and at the time of the flight of our aircraft to the combat zone, they had already started to escort it with the aid of ground-based airlift radar from the depths of Turkish territory, and the coordinates were reported to the F-16C pilots were in the air. And already on the return of the bombed-out car (with empty suspensions), the Falconas, with the AN / APG-68 radar off, on target designation of the same ground-based radar, they went unnoticed into the rear hemisphere of the Su-24M, following the base. Moreover, the F-16C link was supposed to approach in the following terrain mode (at extremely low altitudes), in order to avoid being detected by Syrian air defense systems on the ground, as well as on duty radar of the Russian Aeronautical Space Station at the Latakia air base, but the flaws were made: the flight took place on 2- 3 km, and the Syrian sight radars for a long time were bearing Turkish fighters, patrolling the area near the incident zone. The Turks were well aware of the fact that the Russian Air Force ARLO A-50 aircraft did not overtake Syria, and at that moment there was no escort of Su-30CM fighters. The fate of the Russian crew and aircraft depended solely on the prudence of the pilots and the Turkish leadership, but the “evil” prevailed, the Turks committed an aggressive act, the consequences of which did not take long to wait, and the reasons are probably already clear to almost any unbroken student.


Not only we felt the whole “friendliness” and adequacy of the Turkish leadership. Since 1996, Turkey has been using its F-16C to demonstrate ambition in the 4-mile zone of the airspace of most Greek islands in the Aegean Sea. Over the years of 20 over the sea there were many air battles with the Greek "Mirage-2000", in which both sides had losses. Practically every season is not complete without a violation of the Greek space by Turkish fighters, and sometimes a violation of the territorial waters of the warships of the Turkish Navy, to which Greece has to respond every time. At the same time, one can notice a disappointing fact: each penetration into the airspace of Greece occurs suddenly and from various air directions, which indicates the development by the Turks of a certain tactic for gaining superiority over the Greek Air Force over the Aegean Sea, which can be used both in the near future and in the long term, when NATO “disintegrates”, and possibly becomes obsolete, the trends of which are already visible today. Probably, the imperial habits of Turkey will continue to spread to the continental shelf belonging to Greece. And here Turkey is trying to position itself as a regional dwarf superpower with a tough and aggressive foreign policy.


The Turkish side did not go to such actions completely because of some fictional encroachment on the sovereignty of the country, which was not even close (after all, the plane had no equipment in 3-5 km from Turkey’s air border zone and did not perform dangerous maneuvers), but solely for the purpose of demonstrating dissatisfaction with the destruction of their most profitable oil business, which has been well organized in recent years with ISIS. Another of the main factors of such a criminal act is the mutually beneficial relations of Bilal Erdogan (the son of the Turkish president) with the IG, where the first well-known roof of the illegal distillation of cheap oil from the western part of Syria at the political level, which is emphasized even by European and American analysts.

The fact that NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg recognized the Turkish version of the most truthful is a natural fact, but his facial expression and general confusion in answering questions from the media described the true picture in which not everything is as smooth as NATO is used to, and in the bloc itself completely ambiguous opinions, since one of the most important members of the alliance in the South-Eastern United Nations, namely Turkey, “led the whole block under the monastery”, which will cause an irreversible military-technical “boom” of our VKS in the Middle East, significantly weakening NATO positions. In fact, Turkey “scored a lush goal” at the gates of NATO for decades to come, all thanks to its own economic benefits.

Despite the fact that this “toad” the alliance will have to be swallowed, they will be able to turn this incident to their advantage. It is likely that this “action” can be repeated, and its goal will be to challenge a commensurate response from the Russian videoconferencing system, which later will lead to the blocking of the Bosphorus and an attempt to significantly complicate the logistics through the 720 PMO in Tartus for the general weakening of the videoconferencing RF in the Mediterranean. How to be here? And here, in any case, it is necessary to “show teeth”, and already on both sides of Turkey, it is possible that the force development of events. At the same time, escalation can occur even in the Black Sea region, where activists from the Crimean Medzhlis sponsored by the same Turks helped the Ukrainian pravosekah to plunge the whole peninsula into darkness, and Ukrainian artillery is concentrated in the Kherson region. Russia is now being pushed into direct confrontation, which will be more and more difficult to avoid. Well, you have to fight back!


Working through all the subtleties of the possible escalation of the confrontation with Turkey, it is necessary, first of all, to take into account the strongest sides of the Turkish Armed Forces. Despite the low level of development of the radar and optoelectronic industries, as well as the low level of development of the production of jet aviation engines, the Turkish company TÜBİTAK was able to develop its own sample of high-precision weapons, which poses a threat to both neighboring states and the Russian Aerospace Forces. The SOM tactical cruise missile (pictured) has a range of 200-300 km, with the possibility of increasing it to 2000 km, is capable of performing anti-aircraft maneuvers at low altitudes, has a low CEP and low radar signature, is equipped with an ARGSN and a satellite guidance channel. These characteristics allow the missile to hit command posts, radars, the most important elements of anti-aircraft missile systems, and airfields. These tactical cruise missiles are the most dangerous when they are massively used on difficult terrain, where to intercept such a strike it is necessary to pair several types of air defense systems in the amount of several batteries for each type, here you will not get off with one "Fort". A possible aggravation of the Turkish threat could serve as an impetus for further building up the air defense potential of the Russian flight contingent at the Syrian air base Khmeimim, as well as air defense in the Caucasus and Crimea


And the first significant steps made by our leadership today. Their economic part consists in the complete annulment of the Turkish Stream gas pipeline project that is strategically important for Turkey, the freezing of the Akkuyu NPP construction project, the complete cessation of cooperation in the tourism sector, as well as light industry; for example, Russian textile manufacturers have already proposed to the government to form a proposal to abandon Turkish clothing at the All-Russian level. In addition, a huge number of joint business plans will be stopped. All this will lead to billions in losses of the Turkish side. But this is not the most weighty measures that will be felt in full by the Black Sea "neighbor". Turkey will lose the previously existing levers of influence on the Crimea peninsula, where it has always had significant interests, since the ferry service between the banks will be completely interrupted, Sergey Aksenov said at the beginning of the week. There will be enormous difficulties in financing and other types of support for the Crimean Tatar Majlis, whose representatives, together with the Kiev hang-overs, bring great discomfort to the Crimea. Limiting the influence of the Turkish factor on the development of the Majlis in Crimea can be considered a tremendous advantage for the security of the region, since it has long been known about the punitive Dzhemilev Crimean battalion, acting against civilians and the army of New Russia in the Donbass, and about the participation of many of its members in ISIL, which, in turn, last week managed to declare Ukraine one of its enemies. It is here that the whole extremist-terrorist circle "Turkey-ISIL-Majlis-Ukraine" closes, in which Ukraine will once again be assigned the role of a "wild punching bag", supporting Turkey and the IG in absentia. It is from these "Trojans" that the Russian Federation will get rid of now.

The second, tougher counter-measures will manifest, of course, in the cessation of military cooperation at all levels of interaction between the defense ministry and the general staffs, a significant increase in the shock potential of the Russian space forces in the Turkish borders, as well as in the quite adequate so-called extension of the “permitted” when the lives of our compatriots or allies in the anti-Igil coalition are at stake.

Literally in the very first hours after the tragic incident with the Su-24M, the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces decided to send the newest air defense missile defense system to missile defense C-1164.5 air defense system, which now allowed to shoot down all air objects that are classified by means of air attack, threatening our videoconferencing.

The C-300F “Fort” air defense system onboard Moscow and C-400 will be able to close almost all airspace not only over the northwestern part of the SAR, but also over southern Turkey (Hatay, Adana, Mersin, Gazi provinces, etc.) d), which will no longer allow the Turkish Air Force to operate even at medium altitudes near the border with Syrian Latakia. All our attack units will now be escorted by multi-purpose Su-30CM and Su-27CM fighters, and Su-34, which will be able to stand up for itself in air combat, will be given priority in carrying out shock operations near the Turkish border. But there are some details of a tactical nature that show the insufficiency of the measures taken.

Today, most of the central and eastern parts of Syria continue to be controlled by the IS, and in particular, Raqqah, Homs and Deir ez-Zor. The range of C-400 and C-300F, located in the western part of the SAR, does not allow "to finish" to these lines, there is no possibility of placing ground-based air defense systems and near the front line near the city of Aleppo and other central cities, as there is a danger of losing promising air defense systems during the artillery and rifle battles with the IG, as well as the subsequent transfer of its element base to the West directly or through the Turkish side.

There is also a geographical factor. All shipborne radar and air defense missile systems, as well as ground-based air defense systems deployed in the littoral littoral zone of Latakia, do not have the ability to view the lower echelon of Syrian airspace as early as 30-35 km from the coast, as it is obstructed by the Jabel-Ansari mountain range with average altitudes over 1100 m. And no pseudo-coalition can guarantee that the Turkish Air Force, alone or with the help of our Western "friends", will not develop a next plan of action against our aircraft in low-altitude echelons, which often have units. air and army aircraft. And for this, it is necessary to deploy a strategic reconnaissance aviation, which will operate, accompanied by Su-35С, at a considerable distance from the most missile-dangerous sections of the theater of operations. We are talking about the A-50U long-range radar detection and control aircraft and the ORTR Tu-214Р aircraft, the use of which has never been discussed on the Syrian theater of operations. And these are the only machines capable of presenting the most realistic picture of a theater of military operations, with all its changes, which are threatening in nature.

The presence of A-50U aircraft equipped with an advanced radar complex "Bumblebee-2" will allow you to track any means of air attack (from fighter jets to subtle tactical missiles at ranges from 150 to 450 km) flying at ultra-low altitudes and over the most difficult mountainous terrain. That is, any dangerous approach of the enemy to any of the elements of the VKS will be immediately detected, and fighter aircraft will be used against the intruder. Neither C-400 nor "Fort-M" have air-based surveillance capabilities of the DRLO complex, since they have the concept of a radio horizon that depends on the terrain and the height of divisional radar equipment. For information, it is likely that A-50U are capable of providing target designation for the 9М96Х2 SAMs outside the radio horizon of the complex, i.e. over 40 km, which will allow C-400 to attack targets in any parts of Western Syria, and even beyond the mountains of Ansarius.

As for the Tu-214P, capable of conducting long-range optical and radio electronic reconnaissance of ground and underground targets, these planes can also play an important role in the information field of the Russian aerospace system in Syria. The “core” of the Tu-214P is the multi-frequency radar complex MRK-411, a two-sided AFAR which can not only detect and classify land and sea objects with the highest accuracy, but also work in the subsurface radiolocation mode, detecting the enemy’s underground infrastructure. For visual and infrared surveillance is used OESVR (optical-electronic aerial reconnaissance station) "Fraction". This aircraft would now be very relevant over the Syrian theater of operations, because immediately after the C-400 battery was being transferred to Hamim, the Turks immediately deployed armored forces and infantry to the border areas of Hatay province; I do not think that they would dare to move towards Latakia, but nobody could have even thought about a possible attack of the Turkish F-16 on our Su-24M! The Tu-214P can track any “movements” of the Turkish NE in the border areas, this will allow the VKS and ground forces in the SAR to act, if necessary, on pre-emption. The actions of any prospective aviation group relating to the network-centric component of the Air Force today must be supported by this kind of aircraft.

New food for thought for the sake of, I will cite some facts that few people managed to pay attention to. Their first side was announced on November 26 by Vladimir Putin at a joint press approach with Francois Hollande, immediately after negotiations with the French president. V. Putin admitted that tactical data on the actions of aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces, which the Russian Federation is transmitting to the US Air Force in the region as part of data exchange to prevent air incidents, can be heard “right and left”, including Turkey’s main regional sponsor of terrorism. These data could help the Turkish Air Force to plan a cunning plan of attack on our front-line bomber. But that is not all.

The second side “surfaced” on the Western Internet a few days before the tragedy. 19 November online resource flightglobal.com published news about the start of duty in the Middle East region of the improved version of the American DRLO aircraft E-3G Block 40 / 45 of the AWACS system. The site reports that the plane was sent to South-West Asia (Western Asia); those. will act with one of the air bases of Saudi Arabia. This plane, even in the event of being on the ground, has a flying time to the southern borders of Syria for no more than one hour, and therefore can be quickly deployed and conduct long-range observation of Russian fighters and bombers from a distance of 500 - 600 km. The most powerful RFK with AFAR AN / APY-2 is able to simultaneously accompany 600 and more air targets, among which may be the entire operating group of the Russian Aerospace Forces. This aircraft can quietly provide information to the Turkish Air Force via the Link-16 channel, which is used by the Turkish army as a structural unit of NATO. This E-3G was sent to the Arabian Peninsula specifically for the purpose of monitoring the aircraft of our VKS, why don't we send such vehicles to the region?

The redeployment of the C-400 and RKR "Moscow" to Syria has already forced Ankara to stop flying over the SAR, cools all radical sentiments in the Turkish leadership and hatred from our co-driver Konstantin Murakhtin, who, like the entire flight crew of the Air Force, still recall everything that we had to go through 24 November. And the words of the US State Department about the “possible self-defense” of inhuman Turkomans who shot Oleg Peshkov’s pilot in the ejection seat once again confirm the former line of Washington, regardless of any human principles.

November 25 Russian VKS struck the Turkish “humanitarian convoys”, carrying new “trunks” and building materials for the IG and the so-called “moderate opposition” to the transshipment base in Azaz, this event marked the beginning of the end to the endless stream of cheap oil for Erdogan, therefore, new incidents may well be thought out in the “flat” minds of the Turkish elite. What they can come to will be very instructive for the “world community”, probably in the near future.
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  1. Glot
    Glot 30 November 2015 06: 33
    27
    Put the S-400. Well done !!! Now double the annihilation of these reptiles from all sorts of igil Shmegilov and their accomplices of the air. Shuffle them with their shit all the way !!!
    And on the NATO and US emissions to us - put with the device! You must bend your line to the end, and bend all who are against.
    1. tracker
      tracker 30 November 2015 06: 49
      21
      and stop this impartial semblance of cooperation, voicing our plans only in the hands of outright enemies, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and of course the states, where all the tricks for Syria and Russia are developed
      1. subbtin.725
        subbtin.725 30 November 2015 07: 31
        +9
        On November 25, the Russian air forces of the Russian Federation struck the Turkish "Humcon convoy" carrying new "trunks" and building materials for the Islamic State and the so-called "moderate opposition"


        The next blow was not long in coming:

        1. mihasik
          mihasik 30 November 2015 08: 42
          +4
          Quote: subbtin.725
          On November 25, the Russian air forces of the Russian Federation struck the Turkish "Humcon convoy" carrying new "trunks" and building materials for the Islamic State and the so-called "moderate opposition"


          The next blow was not long in coming:


          Yes, this "bullet" has already been thrown in. Three trucks are the destruction of the "humconvoy"? The entire site is not shown, since everything is whole there and there are no traces of explosions (craters). More like self-detonation for informational "disinformation".
        2. Rus2012
          Rus2012 30 November 2015 18: 13
          +6
          Quote: subbtin.725
          The next blow

          Colleagues, in Syria now it’s not the RF Armed Forces with the Ottomans who are drawn, but the neocons who are urging the Turks to war with all of Russia. Even past Baraka (and indeed all other EU leaders). Kneading conceived cool! Without war, 3,14 In accordance with this you need to act. Extremely bitter, fast, from all over! TNW so, TNW, having in mind the strategic nuclear weapons for the tin! We need to talk about this ...
          1. Talgat
            Talgat 1 December 2015 02: 34
            10
            There is still an important moment

            In fact, all existing relations with Turkey (trade, relations with Crimea, tourists, etc.) are the fruits of the Eltsin era, the period of rapprochement with the West and the policy of "no geopolitics" just for the sake of current gain.

            Although, of course, we must understand that both Europe and Turkey are natural historical opponents of Russia

            Maybe it is for the Russian Federation and for the better - albeit painful, albeit at a loss, but redirect commodity and financial flows from a potentially hostile country to friendly or just allied countries. Maybe it’s better to lose something now - then lose a hundred times more

            The same consumer goods are generally a sin on the side to buy - to feed the same Turkey. In general, we need to do it ourselves, and the rest in the same Kyrgyzstan to buy - after all, a member of the EAC, and there the shops are sewing in rows in rows with sewing machines, now

            Tourists in Altai, Black Sea, Crimea, the same Issyk Kul
            Mandarins in Abkhazia and Ossetia only. Anyway, they disappear there, why buy Moroccan? In general, elements of state regulation and support need to be strengthened
            1. kirpich
              kirpich 2 December 2015 18: 57
              0
              Quote: Talgat
              The same consumer goods are generally a sin on the side to buy - to feed the same Turkey. In general, we need to do it ourselves, and the rest in the same Kyrgyzstan to buy - after all, a member of the EAC, and there the shops are sewing in rows in rows with sewing machines, now


              And, in Russia, the Vietnamese to deal with until the end.
        3. demidov.evg
          demidov.evg 3 December 2015 07: 18
          0
          Someone else would have translated it! Not all connoisseurs of the Arabic language.
    2. Lepila
      Lepila 30 November 2015 07: 32
      29
      Perdogan only understands the language of power. After the incident with the "humanitarian" flotilla of Mavi Marmara, Perdogan decided that next time the flotilla would be escorted to the Israeli shores by Turkish Navy ships. Fortunately, his military explained to him that this would end for Turkey with humiliation and sunk ships.
      1. Pissarro
        Pissarro 30 November 2015 16: 36
        -1
        With all due respect to your fleet, he will not be able to compete with the Turkish one, do not go too far. He even surpasses the strength of our Black Sea Fleet and is a rather formidable force.
        1. TOR2
          TOR2 30 November 2015 21: 24
          +6
          Quote: Pissarro
          With all due respect to your fleet, he will not be able to compete with the Turkish one, do not go too far. He even surpasses the strength of our Black Sea Fleet and is a rather formidable force.

          You approach the conduct of hostilities from a classical point of view. If you have a means of delivery, and there is something to deliver to the vital centers of the enemy, then very quickly his superiority will either disappear.
          1. Pissarro
            Pissarro 1 December 2015 09: 21
            0
            It is unlikely that the Israelis, due to the presence of the Turkish ships of the convoy of the humanitarian flotilla heading to Gaza, would begin to hit the vital centers of Turkey, the maximum on the ships of the convoy
            1. Mahmut
              Mahmut 2 December 2015 18: 15
              +2
              He even surpasses our Black Sea Fleet in strength and is a rather formidable force.

              So after all, the Turkish fleet has always been more numerous than the Russian. This didn’t help them much.
        2. nemo778
          nemo778 3 December 2015 00: 09
          +2
          The Turkish fleet has always been larger, supposedly stronger and more terrible! I will not attach examples! Read! History! In the end, I had to get involved, OWNERS! of your CHAIN ​​DOGS! Read about Ushakov, Nakhimov, and how they were beaten! One against ten! hi
    3. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 30 November 2015 12: 41
      +1
      Tu-214R can track any “movements” of Turkish NE in the border areas, this will allow the airborne forces and ground forces in the SAR to act, if necessary, to preempt. The actions of any promising aviation group related to the network-centric component of the Air Force should today be supported by this kind of aviation.

      Indeed, our "AVAST" would be "suspended" over Syria, in order to test its abilities in almost real conditions of hostilities and on foreign aircraft!
      1. Semen Semyonitch
        Semen Semyonitch 30 November 2015 13: 04
        15
        Quote: Starover_Z
        Indeed, it would be possible to "hang" our "AVAST"

        Is it an antivirus? laughing
        1. Corporal Valera
          Corporal Valera 30 November 2015 15: 52
          +5
          Quote: Semyon Semyonich
          Is it an antivirus? laughing

          Antivirus is a strong saying! He hardly catches mice. Therefore, I agree with the previous expert: "AVAST" can be "suspended"! laughing But the AWACS plane, apparently, really doesn’t hurt!
    4. Maz
      Maz 30 November 2015 19: 28
      +2
      Turkey closed the straits in accordance with the "Montreux" agreement, now what will we feed our own, by air, overflying the same Turkey? Why not throw a vigorous bomb on it?
    5. Sterlya
      Sterlya 30 November 2015 22: 53
      +2
      VO turns into a kind of censor or something? Some emotions and hatred. It starts to get out.
  2. shimus
    shimus 30 November 2015 06: 47
    20
    On a daily basis, massively, to bombard and fire from the Gradov the territory of Syria adjacent to the borders of Turkey. All vehicles that are larger than a passenger vehicle should be destroyed, if there is no information about their legal movement in these coordinates, at a given time! Sow "petals" border area in the places of alleged transitions of terrorists.
  3. aszzz888
    aszzz888 30 November 2015 07: 14
    +7
    Basurmans will not retreat from their geoplanes.
    They now need our discredit as air. For any reason, and without reason.
    We must wait for another provocation, for which the spirits are great masters.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 30 November 2015 10: 16
      10
      Quote: aszzz888
      Basurmans will not retreat from their geoplanes.
      They now need our discredit as air. For any reason, and without reason.
      We must wait for another provocation, for which the spirits are great masters.

      Erdogan again declares that he will bring down our planes. I suppose that as soon as the Turkish F-16 appears in the S-400 coverage area (and this is already in Turkey) it will lead to the Syrian border. There are two options after that, if the Turks don’t turn off, Triumph will work on it, or the second option will use Krasukha-4 ... but I think the first option is preferable for us, in order to clearly show the whole world that we are not throwing words into the wind, and if we say that we will bring down , then we will.
  4. inkass_98
    inkass_98 30 November 2015 07: 35
    15
    It is possible to transfer A-50 to Syria, but they will need to be transported there not by 1, but at least 3-4 to ensure constant tracking of the enemy, and we already do not have enough (about 18 there are various modifications in the ranks and it seems like 4 on storage).
    There is no talk about the Tu-214P at all, two experimental aircraft are only running around.
    In general, "everything is not so simple" (C)
    1. max702
      max702 30 November 2015 08: 45
      40
      About that and speech .. Again, another 41st ... For a REAL answer and further effective action, the supply of our group in Syria must be increased by ORDER! Both in the air and in the land component, and we practically cannot do this, the fleet does not have supply ships for such purposes (gas turbine ships of the Atlantika series of project 1609 http://topwar.ru/18367-sovetskiy-korabl-v-sostave -sil-bystrogo-reagirovaniya
      -vms-ssha.html), aviation is even more incapable of performing such an air supply, and the Khmeimim base is not designed for this, the port in Tartus is extremely far from the concept of the Navy base .. A protracted confrontation will lead to two things, is it either a defeat exhaustion of funds in the conditions of the overwhelming advantage of the enemy in this region (count the number of opponent bases from Turkey to Israel), or a sharp escalation which ultimately results (if we do not want defeat) will lead to the use of nuclear weapons..
      Do not indulge yourself with the illusion that the economic pressure that the government of the Russian Federation is trying to organize will work, this is nonsense! The bourgeoisie will always agree with each other and the losses will be compensated (at least Turkey will promise it), from a military point of view, too, everything is not fun Turkey will be provided with ANY technical support, from intelligence data of any level, and to the supply of the latest technology (f-15 USA and others are already there), Turkey has an abundance of meat for ground operations and will not be embarrassed by considerable losses, this is not "Europe" who are accustomed to blood there .. And what do we see? With economic pressure, nothing will come of it, with the military, we can bite very painfully BUT for a very short time, then it will be stupid with nothing .. You say this is a war between Turkey and Russia! Well, why not? On the other side there is a firm belief that WE WILL NOT APPLY YAO! And by conventional means they will squeeze us there, at least the contingent in Syria will be destroyed, the combat stability of our forces there is now negligible! One armored division will be enough for the Turks to roll everything into dust and it will take them 5-6 hours for this. How and how will we react? Only .. TNW comes to mind .. And now the main question. but will you have the guts for that? After all, after this you can lose everything! And I'm not talking about the third world, it will definitely not be (the enemy has something to lose, and the stakes are not so high), I mean everything that "our elite" has received in recent years, these are accounts, businesses over the hill, real estate and households, kids at Harvard and Yale ... What to do? What is the way out? The question is both simple and complex, in the mind, after confirming that our plane was shot down by the Turks at the base from which this plane took off, a blow should have been struck that way 20-50 killotons ... And that's all, questions about the conflict with Russia would be removed! It is precisely such an inadequate response in terms of proportionality and determination to use all forces and means that would put an end to this confrontation. It would become clear to everyone to play these games with Russia it is necessary to be less honest, otherwise it will zero everyone .. And this applies not only to the situation in Syria, but also in general terms of the confrontation between "world capital" - Russia .. All other scenarios for the development of the conflict by the enemy calculated and lead to our defeat, it will just be stretched out in time from two to 5-10 years ..
      1. Al_oriso
        Al_oriso 30 November 2015 09: 34
        +1
        The Turks shot down a plane, a helicopter and killed our people.
        The answer from Russia was that they burned out the territory near the Turkish border along with militants and other Turkoman.
        In my opinion, this was a rather inadequate answer.
        Now the Turkish government (represented by Erdogan) is furious and thinks what to do. The move is behind him, Russia is now biting and annoying him.
        If an armed skirmish takes place, then the use of nuclear weapons is quite possible.
        1. mervino2007
          mervino2007 2 December 2015 17: 40
          0
          Quote: Al_oriso
          The Turks shot down a plane, a helicopter and killed our people.

          In the war in Syria, Russia missed a blow. Why? They say it's a knife in the back. It doesn’t explain anything. They missed it because they were not ready. Not everyone is ready (at all levels) - those who assessed the situation and brought to subordinates, and those who personally ordered to fly. So - this will happen again. Pilots must be ready for battle. Normally armed. Aimed at counteraction. Like the Syrian pilot MIG29 who, when Turkish aircraft attacked him, sharply turned in their direction and took aim. The Turks washed off. Otherwise, the repetition will be ....
      2. hrapon
        hrapon 30 November 2015 10: 35
        20
        Quote: max702
        On the other hand, there is a firm belief that WE ARE NOT APPLICABLE! And by ordinary means they will squeeze us there. All other scenarios for the development of the conflict by the enemy are calculated and lead to our defeat, it’s just that it will be extended in time from two years to 5-10 years ..


        I agree. This is another "fork" that points to the authors of the provocation. The criminal handwriting (there is such a concept in forensic science) is the same, as in Ukraine, as in Georgia - to put the enemy in a position where he has to choose between two worst scenarios. This puts an end to the debate about whether Erdogan consulted with the United States or not. These are all details of one strategic plan. In fact, this is coverage from the southern flank.

        We are faced with a dilemma - to use nuclear weapons or not. If not applicable, then we will exhaust military resources and lose; if applicable, open Pandora's Box. Obviously, after a retaliatory nuclear strike, the entire "progressive world community" will scream: "Je suis Turkish", the Yankees will get a reason for massive use of nuclear weapons against us, but most importantly they will bring the level of hysteria to the extreme extreme, which they will certainly use in their own selfish interests. I am sure that they are not yet ready for a global nuclear conflict, but after our strike, an active evacuation of elites will begin in the direction of New Zealand and Australia (they have chosen these "safety islands" for a long time) and will continue to actively prepare for the "last war."

        At the same time, the gathering of the Western coalition in the area of ​​the theater of war (supposedly to combat DAESh) is rather a concentration of forces and means for creating numerical military superiority in the event of a conflict developing and its transfer to the region of our southern Black Sea coast and to Crimea. They themselves will not attack yet, but they will try to build up military force in the Black Sea theater. In general, the scenario of the Crimean War 1853-56 is repeated. All statements about the common fight against DAESH are camouflage.

        Under these conditions, a possible regional conflict with Turkey should be seen as an act of concerted collective aggression against our country, which carries a global threat to our security. Turkey is a member of NATO, and they are at the doorstep with weapons to be ready. This is exactly the case when we are obliged to use nuclear weapons. This must be done quickly and effectively so that no one can come to their senses. The war must be fleeting, and the reaction extremely harsh so that everyone understands that the threat of using nuclear weapons is not just chatter.

        Those negative consequences of unlocking the "Pandora's Box" described above will still come if the next Russian-Turkish war begins. However, the actual use of nuclear weapons will deprive many of unnecessary illusions. We have been trying to win the love of the West for 20 years. Over the years, it has become clear that the more they fear us, the more they love us. Although, in view of their prevailing sexual orientation recently, it is precisely their love that we no longer need. Better to be afraid. So we will sleep more calmly.

        Today, before it is too late, it is necessary to make it clear to all interested parties that in which case we will certainly apply nuclear weapons.
        1. max702
          max702 30 November 2015 12: 09
          +6
          Quote: hrapon
          Today, before it is too late, it is necessary to make it clear to all interested parties that in which case we will certainly apply nuclear weapons.

          That is what I had in mind! the fact that we are mixed with crap is a fact, and it will be in any case, though in the case of using nuclear weapons the rhetoric will be quieter because it's scary .. you can answer for the bazaar .. as for but after our strike, an active evacuation of the elites will begin in the direction of New Zealand and Australia (they have chosen these "islands of safety" for a long time) and will continue to actively prepare for the "last war." they understand perfectly well that after the exchange of nuclear weapons strikes there will be nothing alive on the planet for us and the rest, bunkers in New Zealand will not save, someone will survive in the bunkers, and then what? Look at the example of Chernobyl. 30 years have passed, and why? Can I live there? Of course not! And there only one reactor of spent fuel was slightly sprayed, and if all 4 exploded? And there wouldn’t be Europe right now, but how many of them will explode in the global exchange of nuclear weapons? So 3 world for them is not an option in any way! Respectively nefig to mandarize, and do not be shy to beat in the face in the Anglo-Zionist face!
        2. varov14
          varov14 30 November 2015 22: 59
          0
          What are we talking about now, our homegrown zapadents lit our Putin on the chaff. All alternatives disappeared at once. Once again I say it was necessary to swallow, apologize., Jumped by accident. West and America would have nothing to cover, then ruthlessly strike at oil fields, refineries, etc. - the fight against the Isis, the West and here there was nothing to cover. And it looks like they worked for Miller Corporation, now we are reaping the benefits. In a big game - high prices, you just need to have a head. It turns out that our analysts eat bread in vain, two steps ahead they don’t calculate that they did not know who the Turks were, whether it was possible to trust America. It’s bad to get involved in a war when you don’t mind your brain, that’s essentially the edge, kids in Europe, and we in naked priests.
      3. igor.borov775
        igor.borov775 30 November 2015 12: 09
        +7
        Hi!! I'm going to cry. Everything seems to be right at first glance. Running from Syria. But there is one iron rule, they turned to us for help and we are there legally. And the coalition who invited her an interesting question. History is an interesting thing if you look a little back. It was created under an interesting project, Fighting Terrorists in Iraq. And just around the same country the Free Syria Army was created. The composition of the respected meetings was different but the hosts set the tone everywhere. The Army was organizationally created, especially the creators of the Salvation Army participated in its creation. Libya. From there, the most combat-ready units were deployed. I watched an interesting story of a journalist journalist, he was at the very beginning of those events. Then the commanders did not shy away from the journalists happy to talk about the plans for the overthrow of Assad, and most importantly, the phrase that wasn’t clear at the time was IG. You never know what slogans hang. A little time passed and the whole world found out what this phrase is. This is so particular. Nothing has changed, the enemy will be destroyed. As patrons did not spin there, the situation around began to change. And there will be no defeat. And if it will not be more precise already. And spiteful critics will always be dissatisfied with their own right. He impresses him. And in one you are right TIME. He is now dictating how we can solve the problems. You can’t build and run the plant in one year . Need time. I listened carefully to the leaders of the defense industry. They are well aware of their responsibility to the state. No, you didn’t understand that. They were talking about launching the latest developments for the civilian industries. Despite all the troubles, the problems demanded that they launch the production of these products faster. But it takes time to build new production facilities and expand existing ones. And the sanctions forced us to take up our problems in industry. For large oil companies, the discovery was that there are production facilities not inferior to their Western counterparts. But it’s good that their productions are loaded with orders. It will take a little time and the industry will change now they have begun to sort it out and there has always been no time for it. It was necessary to look at what was there and what was needed. I’m sitting and writing about RBC with might and main they scare people saying that they don’t need TURKEY. It’s broadcasting all day saying that we’ll be hungry, everyone is wrong, and such personalities that are always pushing on the channel are already giving their best advice on how to survive this grief. what to tell about the strike of drivers. All inclusions end with one empty. But the leaders are eager for the cameras they say everyone will see soon.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. hrapon
          hrapon 30 November 2015 12: 53
          +7
          Quote: igor.borov775
          Hello!! I'm going to cry. Everything seems to be right at first glance. Running from Syria.


          In no case do you have to flee from Syria. But no need to cry.

          We must be prepared for the tough development of the script. And most importantly, there, behind the "puddle", the "analysts" understand that we have not only determination, but also a real plan to use nuclear weapons in the event of an open military confrontation with Turkey, and that this plan is a plan for the defeat of the West.

          Only when they calculate the options with the help of their supercomputers and come to the conclusion that they somehow tryndets (in fact, the option 50: 50 is no longer acceptable for them) they will remain in the stall. They need to be periodically given indirectly to the snout in regional conflicts in order to maintain peace. That is why there has been no global (hot) war since 1945.

          This blog is actively read by all kinds of "analytics" from various special services. Let them know that the "masses" support a tough answer. This is also not the last factor in assessing the military-political prospects.
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 30 November 2015 23: 22
            +4
            Quote: hrapon
            We must be prepared for the tough development of the script. And most importantly, there, behind the "puddle", the "analysts" understand that we have not only determination, but also a real plan to use nuclear weapons in the event of an open military confrontation with Turkey, and that this plan is a plan for the defeat of the West.
            = the use of nuclear weapons, like tactical nuclear weapons, is unacceptable, these are weapons of the weak. Russia has enough strength to tear the ass of the Turks with conventional weapons. Strikes from Armenia, strikes with "calibers" from the Caspian and Crimea. And in Syria, the Turks will have to fight against the Syrian army. What makes you think that the Syrians will fold their legs up at the sight of the Turks? Seriously and truly for Syria, Iran will fit in - without Syria, Iran and its influence on the BV will be immediately transformed. Well, there will be a big mess in the Middle East - they are the first to fight there in the black? Why are you sweating and immediately grab onto nuclear weapons? Already against Turkey, which has 150 F-16s and a hundred leopards? Not ashamed? If they invade Syria - a quick evacuation of the air group, let the Syrians fight for their land and the Iranians to help them + Kurds, Russia will beat from Armenia, moreover, using high-tech beatings, with long arms, as the ISIS members were recently indicative of. After all, there was no need to beat the Ishilovites like that - they were there for garlic YAK-130 modified above the roof, or even buy this propeller-driven attack aircraft from the Brazilians, put the President on it, and that's fine! These high-tech strikes were targeted at Amers and Turks. Apparently, they weren't impressed. Well, if the Turks climb up, they will fight the Syrians and Kurds under constant air strikes from Russia from the Armenian direction. The Turks have no air defense at all, it sucks, they planned to buy something from the Chinese - they didn't have time, I don't want to use bombs, shoot down their planes with S-400 complexes right on takeoff from the Diyarbakir airfield - and where does the use of tactical nuclear weapons? According to the doctrine, nuclear weapons are used when the very existence of the Russian Federation is threatened - does a local war of Turkey against Syria threaten this existence? No! Close the nuclear topic! Shame! Against Turkey, already grab for nuclear weapons! Lived! Be worthy of the fathers who tore the ass of the best soldiers of Europe in their time - the Germans!
            1. hrapon
              hrapon 1 December 2015 20: 09
              +3
              [quote = aksakal] [quote = hrapon] You need to be prepared for the hard development of the script. And most importantly, there, behind the "puddle", the "analysts" understand that we have not only determination, but also a real plan to use nuclear weapons in the event of an open military confrontation with Turkey, and that this plan is a plan for the defeat of the West. [/ quote] = <.... Close the nuclear topic! Shame! Against Turkey, already grab for nuclear weapons! Lived! ....> / quote]


              See, you don't like it anymore. I’m sure that NATO members will not like it either. That is how nuclear deterrence works.
      4. Semen Semyonitch
        Semen Semyonitch 30 November 2015 13: 09
        +7
        Quote: max702
        according to the mind, after confirming that our plane was shot down by the Turks at the base from where this plane took off, a blow of 20-50 kilotons should have been struck ...

        Thank God that you are not an adviser to Putin.
        1. max702
          max702 30 November 2015 14: 14
          +9
          He has much more "competent" Chubais, Gref, Kudrin, and a legion of others .. We see the results, all the plans that the world capital has put into effect, take even the Second World War! Do you think they did not reach their plans there? Far from it! all goals and objectives were achieved almost in full! The "old" countries were finally reformatted and everything was taken under unified control, Germany was under occupation, France, Japan and the rest of Europe, England finally lost independence, and in fact became a European state of the USA, everyone was hooked on the dollar .. Yes, the USSR held out and forced spend resources on himself, but in the end he fell and he organically fit into the system of world capital, then that Russia is trying to oppose something to this while it looks like convulsions, it is not a shame! So far, no decisive actions and steps are visible, all that is nothing more than fuss and does not pose any threat to MK! What have we done? Nothing! All that has been done Crimea, support for the LDNR, South Ossetia, Abkhazia, support for Syria, all this is easily stopped by the actions of that side, if we do not show our readiness to go to the end! One could show determination by changing our laws that were drawn up by traitors in the 90s, a radical change in domestic policy with the departure from huckstering and raising production, a change in tasks in science, education and culture .. And where is it all? In words YES! But on business? This is how I often ask in August we bought US government bonds for $ 21.5 billion ??? What is it like a kickback or a lie for the fact that we will go to fight in Syria, and this money was supposed to compensate for the losses that the United States and others will incur there? Duc judging by the behavior of Turkey, and then they threw us! They took the money, but did not fulfill the agreement, That is why ours were so surprised and angry and loud statements were voiced .. Perhaps it was a private initiative of Erdogan, but again analysts counted hmm .. Since the Turks got into this matter, let them butt, and we will help them "with a kind word" and "quiet deed" I still act in the right direction (the collapse of Russia). so you need to listen to beautiful speeches as little as possible, and look more at what is happening ..
          1. Semen Semyonitch
            Semen Semyonitch 30 November 2015 21: 01
            +3
            All this is understandable ... It is unclear how easily nuclear warheads are scattered here. But it can fly in ... I’m not worried about myself, for those who have everything ahead. So that...
            1. aksakal
              aksakal 30 November 2015 23: 30
              0
              Quote: Semyon Semyonich
              how easily nuclear warheads are scattered here.
              - I was also outraged. Mother sloth, why fight? It's a long, dreary, won’t even been fighting with the Papuans for two months in a high-tech, the results are so-so, but here with Turkey - completely broke! And we crave a vigorous loaf! Quickly and immediately victory! laughing laughing
              At one time, weapons were taken from my ancestors - because pugnaciousness and aggressiveness were off scale, I had to fight with clubs - soils. Mlyn, well, now, the Russians need to take away nuclear weapons? And then already come to the use of nuclear weapons for a sidelong glance and for shouting "Putin is someone there!"
              1. Semen Semyonitch
                Semen Semyonitch 1 December 2015 12: 45
                0
                Quote: aksakal
                Mlyn, now what, do you need to take nuclear weapons from the Russians?

                Try laughing
                Quote: aksakal
                And then already get to the use of nuclear weapons

                Thank God, Zhirinovsky is not chosen. And people who so easily call for the use of nuclear weapons are in virtual reality.
                1. a housewife
                  a housewife 2 December 2015 17: 57
                  0
                  Everything that Zhirinovsky calls out must be divided by 8. He would never have used nuclear weapons. But when he says something quietly and calmly, one must listen, always on business.
                2. The comment was deleted.
            2. Valentine
              Valentine 2 December 2015 21: 31
              0
              Do you think that it will be "all ahead"?
        2. Victor Demchenko
          Victor Demchenko 30 November 2015 15: 54
          +5
          Quote: Semen Semenych
          Quote: max702
          according to the mind, after confirming that our plane was shot down by the Turks at the base from where this plane took off, a blow of 20-50 kilotons should have been struck ...

          Thank God that you are not an adviser to Putin.

          it’s bad that VV doesn’t listen to us! Did you watch the last meeting of the ONF? then we would see HOW the guarantor liked the work of our volunteers, when they started on the facts, with documents in their hands to show him HOW officials work, how they violate and circumvent his orders and decrees. And at the end of the meeting these his words: ... but in fact all the officials are crystal-clear and decent people ... and this applies to Serdyukov, Vasilyeva, to the judge who signed UDO Vasilyeva, and I would not forget Chubais ... yes their legion, and all white and fluffy ... angry
      5. 11 black
        11 black 30 November 2015 17: 01
        +1
        Quote: max702
        will lead to the use of nuclear weapons ..

        Quote: max702
        On the other hand, there is a firm belief that WE ARE NOT APPLICABLE! And by ordinary means they will squeeze us there

        I answer - we have a sufficiently effective means of non-nuclear deterrence to destroy the Turkish group if they are trampled on, I have already spoken about this today - well, okay, I’ll say it again, its name is AVBPM, aka "Daddy of all bombs"
        90 m. From the epicenter - the complete destruction of even the most fortified structures.

        170 m. From the epicenter - the complete destruction of unfortified structures and the almost complete destruction of reinforced concrete structures.

        300 m. From the epicenter - the almost complete destruction of unfortified structures (residential buildings). Reinforced structures are partially destroyed.

        440 m from the epicenter - partial destruction of unfortified structures.

        1120 m. From the epicenter - a shock wave breaks the glass.

        2290 m. From the epicenter - the shock wave is able to knock a person down.


        Adopted by 2007 - so now there are enough of them, 1 Tu 160 presumably (no data, but based on the suspension points) carries 12 of such beauties.
        1. Fregate
          Fregate 30 November 2015 22: 00
          +1
          Quote: 11 black
          I answer - we have a sufficiently effective means of non-nuclear deterrence to destroy the Turkish group if they are trampled on, I have already spoken about this today - well, okay, I’ll say it again, its name is AVBPM, aka "Daddy of all bombs"
          90 m. From the epicenter - the complete destruction of even the most fortified structures.

          What are you saying? And how do you deliver this bomb to their heads through aviation and do not tell me about air defense? Maybe you will be at the helm?
        2. max702
          max702 30 November 2015 23: 45
          +1
          Do you know that it weighs 7 tons? Do TU-160 40t have 12 payloads? And the size of the bomb bay will allow at least a couple to shove? Its TNT equivalent is 44 tons so that there is something similar to Hiroshima (13cc TNT), 13000 \ 44 =295 pc and now we consider how many planes it takes to deliver at least half of this quantity .. You google before writing nonsense ..
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 1 December 2015 00: 17
            0
            Quote: max702
            And the size of the bomb bay will allow at least a couple to shove? Its TNT equivalent is 44 tons so that there is something similar to Hiroshima (13cc TNT), 13000 \ 44 = 295 pcs are needed, and now we consider how many planes it takes to deliver at least half of this number .. You should google before writing nonsense ..

            - the dimensions of the TU-160 bomb bay allow you to place 12 hefty missiles of the X-101 type, in terms of tonnage and size, I think the TU-160 is three to four (four are more likely) to drag such beauties to the target. Such bombs are NOT DISCHARGED on attacking and moving columns, but on important and motionless, important infrastructural targets, for example, on the same airfield in Diyarbakir and Engineerlik, you can cover all planes with a pair of such bombs. Something like this Maskhadov was covered by all the planes at the beginning of the second Chechen campaign, in this case, the attack will be delivered from the side of Armenia, but before this massive attack on the Su-34 and Su24 the Turkish air defense will be suppressed, which is very slop
        3. Pavel_J
          Pavel_J 1 December 2015 09: 13
          +1
          The combat load is 45 tons, the ABBM weighs 7,1 tons, it turns out that 6 pieces should carry, but will it fit? And in the modernized Tu-160 there is no place for bombs, only a drum with missiles. = (What for then AVBPM and what I do not know how to throw it off (they drop it from famous transport shots on famous frames).
      6. IrOqUoIs
        IrOqUoIs 30 November 2015 18: 39
        +1
        This is the worst case scenario for us.
        And the best for our main opponent. That is war by the wrong hands. It’s far away, and it’s as if it had nothing to do with it, and Russia will be attacked by satellite countries (mongrels).
        We need a cardinal method, for example, to find out the whereabouts of the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers and bang them, passing off this incident as an ISIS blow to the infidels. The effect will be - breathtaking.
      7. samuil60
        samuil60 30 November 2015 22: 53
        0
        A difficult case ... We here more than once accused the United States of being easy to rattle with atomic weapons - they say, they behave like a monkey with a grenade! And themselves, that, are ready to unleash a nuclear war because of one shot down, albeit treacherously. aircraft !? People, do you want the remnants of mankind that survived in the hellfire to curse Russia until they die from X-rays and burns? There are many ways to win a war without destroying humanity, and our president is not at all stupid. There is no need for dusty fumes for the Internet audience, just let people work.
      8. Valentine
        Valentine 2 December 2015 21: 15
        +1
        How I, Max, agree with you! One hit at 50 kilotons
        and silence around the globe .... The whole world will "chew" and analyze what happened, but do we need it? Or, my hut is on the edge. And NOBODY will peep. Time is lost, but ... We must expect from them another meanness , after which no longer chew snot, but answer
        tough and cruel. The hysteria will be terrible, and, to warn, one more provocation, will be even worse. The Yankees are not fools, they know that if our
        nuclear warheads will burst through the US missile defense, at least a few, they will not find it enough .. And only in this way, and not otherwise.
  5. Al_oriso
    Al_oriso 30 November 2015 07: 52
    +6
    new incidents may well be thought out in the "flat" minds of the Turkish elite

    It was not in vain that the Turkish military were arrested, most likely those who did not support the new anti-Russian provocations of these "flat" minds.
  6. Gray 43
    Gray 43 30 November 2015 08: 33
    -2
    And what about the Straits? Information passed that the Turks closed them for our ships
    1. inkass_98
      inkass_98 30 November 2015 10: 23
      +5
      Quote: Gray 43
      urki closed them for our ships

      On what grounds? Try to close the passage of the straits for the same cruiser "Moskva" without military influence, it will not work. And coercion by military methods will be a declaration of war, in a state of which we are not with Turkey now.
      1. denis02135
        denis02135 1 December 2015 05: 00
        +2
        Dear inkass_98

        It is elementary to flood two prepared dry cargo ships in the strait and no "Moscow" will pass because rescue and restoration work will take place within a month or two. And their thought will also adopt a law on the priority of national laws over international ones, and what will you say after.
        1. a housewife
          a housewife 2 December 2015 18: 04
          0
          And what will the other countries of the Black Sea region say to this? But Turkey itself does not need straits? They will not sink anything in the straits.
        2. The comment was deleted.
  7. Kalmar
    Kalmar 30 November 2015 08: 38
    +7
    Quote: article
    As you know, excessive tolerance towards those who quietly interact with our direct enemy behind our backs can lead to a “stab in the back” at the most unexpected moment and in the most “weakened” zone.

    They are still bombing: why even Yevgeny Damantsev knew this, but not to our military commanders? A pair of cover fighters would fly next to the bombers, nothing would happen. I’m all waiting until someone is brought to justice for such a slob.

    I do not think the S-400 is an adequate response measure: they will not prevent Turkish fighters from "dropping" any of our aircraft again and quickly sweeping deep into Turkish territory while we are figuring out what happened. Unless ours will preemptively bring down everything that is within reach, but this is unrealistic.

    It would be so easy to establish regular patrols of the Syrian-Turkish border with our fighters (at least during Russian air missions "on business"), and to keep any potentially dangerous aircraft immediately at gunpoint. And also add an electronic warfare plane to the patrol, so that the Turkish air defense officers, day after day, only contemplate porridge on their radars.

    Well, it would be very nice to miss another ISIS column into Turkey, after which it would be indicative to bomb it (without violating the air borders, essno). This could be a worthy response to the slap in the face that Erdogan gave us.
  8. NeRTT
    NeRTT 30 November 2015 08: 55
    +1
    Quote: Gray 43
    And what about the Straits? Information passed that the Turks closed them for our ships

    It is not profitable for them to do this: since the Russian Federation will cut off gas and electricity to Turkey !! And that's not all .. I don't remember where I read, but neither Russia nor Turkey will exchange "KOZYRYAMI" !!
  9. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 30 November 2015 08: 56
    +4
    There can’t even be an alternative to a very harsh reaction for Russia. Otherwise, we will lose not only Syria, but then Donbass and we may lose our sovereignty.
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 30 November 2015 09: 47
      +5
      Quote: dchegrinec
      Otherwise, we will lose not only Syria, but then Donbass, and we may lose our sovereignty.

      Well, Syria and the Donbass, for example, are not ours, but I agree about sovereignty: if the world feels that even some Turks there can kick Russia with impunity, it will be rubbish.
      1. denis02135
        denis02135 1 December 2015 05: 03
        +1
        Dear Kalmar

        The whole world does not need, China alone is enough.
  10. iliya87
    iliya87 30 November 2015 09: 20
    +4
    I've already read a bunch of articles of this kind. I personally have a couple of questions. 1) Why they did not imagine and did not provide the necessary protection before (I can still assume that the deployment of the S-400 and a bunch of destroyers would give us a reason to accuse us of all mortal sins, BUT this would not have happened or f16 had been shot down in response)
    2) MAIN. if before that we knew which Erdogan was a goat, and only the lazy one doesn’t talk about it now and shows all kinds of evidence and assumptions of the recent past, then why did you calmly cooperate with him?
    Those. it turns out they knew that he was helping ISIS at the same time and conducted economic transactions and talked like a friend "PS Putin's words" and how he shot down the plane immediately became a goat. Guys, what did you think about before? Let ISIS help lizh not knock us down? Or what?
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 30 November 2015 09: 56
      +4
      Quote: iliya87
      1) Why they did not anticipate and provide the necessary protection before

      The answer is simple - arrogance. Say, we are a Great Power, who dares to raise a hand against us? The Turks, unfortunately, were not in the know and raised. Well, without our traditional sloppiness could not have done.

      Quote: iliya87
      2) MAIN. if before that we knew which Erdogan was a goat, and only the lazy one doesn’t talk about it now and shows all kinds of evidence and assumptions of the recent past, then why did you calmly cooperate with him?

      But big politics: in it, "goats" or "good guys" are all purely situational. Each big politician can be viewed from different angles: from some he will be good, from some - bad.

      Let's say we support the same Assad - like, our boyfriend, the correct one, a legitimate president, and so on. And somehow we do not remember that he supported and supports Hezbollah, and indeed his stigma is pretty much in the cannon.

      Another thing is that if we call someone a "good guy", closing our eyes to suspicious moments, this does not mean that you can turn your back on such a "good guy". Alas, our leaders have either forgotten about this, or have not thought about it.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 30 November 2015 13: 01
        +4
        Quote: Kalmar
        The answer is simple - arrogance. Say, we are a Great Power, who dares to raise a hand against us?

        Too quickly forgot the experience of Afghanistan. But the situation there was similar: a limited contingent of a great power and a neighboring state that supported the terrorists. And the air forces of this state attacked Soviet aircraft repeatedly - even outside the borders of Pakistan.
        Quote: Kalmar
        Let's say we support the same Assad - like, our boyfriend, the correct one, a legitimate president, and so on. And somehow we do not remember that he supported and supports Hezbollah, and indeed his stigma is pretty much in the cannon.

        Heh heh heh ... yes, we are also working with Hezbollah now. Remember the officially announced composition of the group that pulled out our navigator.

        Who could imagine a picture about 30 years ago: Hezbollah special forces rescues our pilot. belay
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 30 November 2015 19: 31
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          And the air forces of this state attacked Soviet planes repeatedly - even outside the borders of Pakistan

          By the way, why didn’t they shoot down in response, why didn’t they cover them with fighters *?
      2. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 30 November 2015 16: 20
        +2
        Quote: Kalmar
        Let's say we support the same Assad - like, our boyfriend, the correct one, a legitimate president, and so on. And somehow we do not remember that he supported and supports Hezbollah, and indeed his stigma is pretty much in the cannon.

        To begin with, what do you dislike about Hezbollah? I understand that they are enemies for Israel, but on the other hand they are fighting for the creation of a Palestinian state.
        As for the stigma in the gun, so life is like this, give slack and end to the state
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar 30 November 2015 21: 50
          0
          Quote: Pilat2009
          For starters, what do you dislike about Hezbollah?

          They’re like terrorists and all that. As for me, it’s a good argument in favor of a cool attitude towards them. And the fact that now we are conditionally on one side of the barricades does not make them better.

          Quote: Pilat2009
          but on the other hand they are fighting for the creation of a Palestinian state

          Well, yes, but ISIS is fighting to create an Islamic state. Will we be friends with them too?
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 30 November 2015 22: 38
            +3
            Quote: Kalmar
            They’re like terrorists and all that. As for me, it’s a good argument in favor of a cool attitude towards them

            You know, the Germans also called partisans terrorists. In general, I am not a supporter of close ties with Iran, for example, he has his own policy and is striving for the creation of WMDs, but since we have our own interests in the Middle East (what kind of a different conversation is this, can we argue ) you have to look for allies
    2. GYGOLA
      GYGOLA 30 November 2015 16: 33
      +2
      At the G-20 summit, Putin thanked Erdogan for his independent media policy. He deflected, that is to say. Such "bream" flew in in response. The Turks have personal interests above all, they have been and will be. Damn, these are obvious things V. AT.
    3. Victorio
      Victorio 30 November 2015 21: 01
      +2
      Quote: iliya87
      I've already read a bunch of articles of this kind. I personally have a couple of questions. 1) Why they did not imagine and did not provide the necessary protection before (I can still assume that the deployment of the S-400 and a bunch of destroyers would give us a reason to accuse us of all mortal sins, BUT this would not have happened or f16 had been shot down in response)
      2) MAIN. if before that we knew which Erdogan was a goat, and only the lazy one doesn’t talk about it now and shows all kinds of evidence and assumptions of the recent past, then why did you calmly cooperate with him?
      Those. it turns out they knew that he was helping ISIS at the same time and conducted economic transactions and talked like a friend "PS Putin's words" and how he shot down the plane immediately became a goat. Guys, what did you think about before? Let ISIS help lizh not knock us down? Or what?

      ===
      it can be added that none of the military-political leadership of the country took responsibility for this, to put it mildly, incautiously
  11. Neophyte
    Neophyte 30 November 2015 09: 32
    0
    Yes, is the situation quite serious? It is not excluded that repetition of provocations of the Turks with
    US and NATO? We hope that Russia will find a worthy answer!
  12. Olezhek
    Olezhek 30 November 2015 09: 35
    0
    .... From my point of view, if the war with Turkey starts, it must be decisive, large-scale and fast ...

    ... It seems that she just wants to get a preemptive strike with cruise missiles with cluster warheads on the airfields based on the Turkish Air Force and the PRR on all of its radar stations in the region. At the second stage, if the rhetoric of Ankara does not change, you will have to sink their fleet (ships with missile strike weapons). Apparently, still hopes that NATO will come to the aid of Turkey with all its combat power ...
    http://voprosik.net/vojna-s-turciej-mneniya-bloggerov/
    people "lose" the situation
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 30 November 2015 11: 46
      +4
      It’s just that it’s impossible to get fast.

      The population of Turkey is 77 million people. There is a fairly developed industry,
      including military. Mobilization potential is high. The army is large
      highly mechanized. The fleet is big. Aviation and air defense are modern.
      The straits overlap in a couple of hours (scribble thickly min - a couple of trifles).
      There is no land border with Russia. The Black Sea Fleet is relatively weak.

      In addition to strategists and the Kyrgyz Republic, Russia has no means against Turkey in the conventional war.
      It will be a protracted war without the possibility of victory. Turks won't be able to win either
      clear business, but they do not need. Fighting off is a victory for them.
      1. Olezhek
        Olezhek 30 November 2015 12: 56
        0
        In addition to strategists and the Kyrgyz Republic, Russia has no means against Turkey in the conventional war.
        It will be a protracted war without the possibility of victory.


        And why is it all? In a sense - a victory over Turkey? What are these modern air force? against Greece yes ..
        I think - perhaps something like inflicting a dozen "pinpoint" strikes on important military targets ...
        And how will Turkey respond?
        Will invade Syria? The landing in the Crimea will land?
        And the initiative overlap of the straits is a serious step (politically)
        So "knocking them on the head" is quite real.
        They invade Syria - suddenly TNW ...

        Well, imagine - early Sunday morning, while at Erdogan the aviation burned down at night ...
        So what to do?
        Iraq also had a great army ...
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 30 November 2015 18: 06
          +3
          "Iraq also HAD a great army ..." ///

          Right. Hussein's army was strong. And to the Americans
          needed a full operation of 200 thousand land
          troops, hundreds of aircraft to triumphantly enter Baghdad.
          And then, the war dragged on for 8 years.
      2. Karlos
        Karlos 30 November 2015 15: 09
        +3
        ".. the population of Turkey is 77 million", of which 30 million are not Turks, 25 million are Kurds, and 5 are other Armenians, Greeks, Assyrian, etc., they will not fight, and if they do, then against the Turks
      3. Razvedka_Boem
        Razvedka_Boem 30 November 2015 17: 33
        +2
        Inside Turkey, too, not everything is smooth, though Erdogan rigidly suppresses everything. If the Turks go ahead with the drill .. I think Russia will also take off his gloves, start helping the Kurds, agree with Iran .. In general, there are options, up to the division of Turkey ..) In the end, they shoot a rabid dog .. and Erdogan is angry at the roof already gone and such a NATO ally is not needed.
      4. aksakal
        aksakal 1 December 2015 18: 53
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        The population of Turkey is 77 million people. There is a fairly developed industry,

        - on a compact territory, which is shot through with the same "Caliber". Around Turkey, ALL ENEMIES - no one else. Kurds, Syrians, Greeks, even Bulgarians, and those have a tooth, Iranians and Iraqis, Armenians and Russians laughing You won't wish it on your enemy. So, over Turkey we declare a no-fly zone, and the S-400 from the side of Armenia and from the side of Syria will make it easy. And we begin to crumble with "calibers" the entire Turkish vaunted industrial potential and military infrastructure - ammunition depots, weapons factories - EVERYTHING !, airfields with aircraft and even all power plants. At the same time, the Syrians and Kurds are actively fighting, provoking the Turks to waste ammunition while the factories producing these ammunition will be destroyed by "calibers." And the Americans will not help neither Greece nor Bulgaria will not let weapons through, they will try to ukram across the Black Sea - don’t tell my slippers, by sea - don’t tell my slippers either, the Kurdish people and the Iranians will not let them through Iraq ...
        Warrior, with all your sanity - the Turks themselves DO NOT DONE. Only the direct intercession of the Americans will save them, otherwise re-read my post, they will last for a maximum of three months, and even the Most High will not help them without ammunition. DO NOT AGREE TO YOU,
  13. spravochnik
    spravochnik 30 November 2015 10: 31
    0
    "Literally in the very first hours after the tragic incident with the Su-24M, the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces decided to send the RKR pr. 1164.5" Moscow "to the coast of Latakia
    There is no such project, "Moscow" - pr. 1164.
  14. Vyacheslav73
    Vyacheslav73 30 November 2015 11: 15
    +6
    Quote: max702
    About that and speech .. Again, another 41st ... For a REAL answer and further effective action, the supply of our group in Syria must be increased by ORDER! Both in the air and in the land component, and we practically cannot do this, the fleet does not have supply ships for such purposes (gas turbine ships of the Atlantika series of project 1609 http://topwar.ru/18367-sovetskiy-korabl-v-sostave -sil-bystrogo-reagirovaniya

    -vms-ssha.html), aviation is even more incapable of performing such an air supply, and the Khmeimim base is not designed for this, the port in Tartus is extremely far from the concept of the Navy base .. A protracted confrontation will lead to two things, is it either a defeat exhaustion of funds in the conditions of the overwhelming advantage of the enemy in this region (count the number of opponent bases from Turkey to Israel), or a sharp escalation which ultimately results (if we do not want defeat) will lead to the use of nuclear weapons..
    Do not indulge yourself with the illusion that the economic pressure that the government of the Russian Federation is trying to organize will work, this is nonsense! The bourgeoisie will always agree with each other and the losses will be compensated (at least Turkey will promise it), from a military point of view, too, everything is not fun Turkey will be provided with ANY technical support, from intelligence data of any level, and to the supply of the latest technology (f-15 USA and others are already there), Turkey has an abundance of meat for ground operations and will not be embarrassed by considerable losses, this is not "Europe" who are accustomed to blood there .. And what do we see? With economic pressure, nothing will come of it, with the military, we can bite very painfully BUT for a very short time, then it will be stupid with nothing .. You say this is a war between Turkey and Russia! Well, why not? On the other side there is a firm belief that WE WILL NOT APPLY YAO! And by conventional means they will squeeze us there, at least the contingent in Syria will be destroyed, the combat stability of our forces there is now negligible! One armored division will be enough for the Turks to roll everything into dust and it will take them 5-6 hours for this. How and how will we react? Only .. TNW comes to mind .. And now the main question. but will you have the guts for that? After all, after this you can lose everything! And I'm not talking about the third world, it will definitely not be (the enemy has something to lose, and the stakes are not so high), I mean everything that "our elite" has received in recent years, these are accounts, businesses over the hill, real estate and households, kids at Harvard and Yale ... What to do? What is the way out? The question is both simple and complex, in the mind, after confirming that our plane was shot down by the Turks at the base from which this plane took off, a blow should have been struck that way 20-50 killotons ... And that's all, questions about the conflict with Russia would be removed! It is precisely such an inadequate response in terms of proportionality and determination to use all forces and means that would put an end to this confrontation. It would become clear to everyone to play these games with Russia it is necessary to be less honest, otherwise it will zero everyone .. And this applies not only to the situation in Syria, but also in general terms of the confrontation between "world capital" - Russia .. All other scenarios for the development of the conflict by the enemy calculated and lead to our defeat, it will just be stretched out in time from two to 5-10 years ..


    In my opinion the most adequate statement! It’s necessary to respond to every such kick with tactical nuclear weapons, after one or two times they won’t be willing ... Otherwise, you won’t be able to reassure all this Caudle ... But there’s no strength to endure silently ...
  15. Olezhek
    Olezhek 30 November 2015 11: 23
    +2
    First of all, it should be noted that the destruction of the Russian bomber and the murder of the pilot is a very serious political step by Erdogan. These things are not a joke. Until this moment there was one situation, now it is different. The political picture of the world has changed. We need to assess this, calculate further moves, evacuate our tourists from Turkey ... Think over what next and how. And nervous and sudden movements are not necessary - they do not lead to success. Undoubtedly, options for military "retaliatory" responses to Turkey are now being actively worked out. So as a last resort, something will be done. But better not. In general, the game around Syria is not over yet. But in general, in this situation, the main thing is political moves, not military ones. Erdogan, as everyone understood, will not apologize, so we are starting to play against Turkey in the Middle East ... yes
    1. Razvedka_Boem
      Razvedka_Boem 30 November 2015 17: 36
      0
      By this action, I think Erdogan committed political suicide. This will be especially clear after the entry into force of sanctions against Turkey.
  16. Rosty
    Rosty 30 November 2015 11: 24
    +2
    Deficiency of the General Staff. All threats had to be considered in advance. Deployment of the C400, support for fighter bombers, air interceptors on duty. The Turks were afraid to fly close to the Syrian border before. All this had to be done BEFORE, not AFTER. And if you answer, then within 30 minutes after the incident. Locally, but tough.

    Strength is respected in the east - they carry weapons for show on a belt.
    1. Olezhek
      Olezhek 30 November 2015 11: 36
      0
      A flaw in the General Staff. All threats had to be considered in advance.


      It is impossible in principle.
      1. Kalmar
        Kalmar 30 November 2015 11: 55
        +2
        Quote: Olezhek
        It is impossible in principle

        Well yes. Let's bomb fuel trucks going to Turkey near the Turkish border. The Turks were going to raise a lot of money on them, so it is extremely unlikely that the destruction of this column will somehow sadden them ... So what? In other words: the General Staff could and should take this specific threat into account, but, it seems, did not even try.
      2. Rosty
        Rosty 30 November 2015 12: 03
        +1
        Technically, it turned out to be possible. And to envisage possible options for the development of events and create conditions for responding to them is precisely the work of the General Staff. For example, to voice the statement on combat duty C400, MIG 31 in air-watch mode - the Turks would have thought whether it was worth shooting down or not. Now you have to wave your fists after the fight.
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar 30 November 2015 12: 10
          +1
          Quote: Rosty
          to voice the statement on combat duty S400, MIG 31 in air-watch mode

          You don’t even need to voice it. Our aviation in Syria operates close to NATO aviation. Yes, the very NATO, which seems to be our main adversary today. It seems to me that it should be obvious that under such conditions bombers / attack aircraft should hide behind fighters from possible air attacks.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 30 November 2015 13: 07
      +1
      Quote: Rosty
      Deficiency of the General Staff. All threats had to be considered in advance.

      Threats have been addressed. Otherwise, it is impossible to explain the presence of Su-30 fighters as part of the VKS group.
      Someone just relaxed too much and did not take into account the statement of the Turks on the "flight". As a result, the Su-30, instead of being on duty in the zone, when ours were working near the border (standard practice during the Afghan era) began to be distracted by work on the ground.
  17. aud13
    aud13 30 November 2015 11: 28
    +5
    Apparently, the struggle against oil carriers and oil refineries of the Russian Aerospace Forces was very painful both for ISIS and for their patrons. Therefore, they decided to do a provocation with our SU-24.
    It may be based on this to somewhat diversify the fight against this oil flow.
    Well, firstly, maybe, through satellites, it can track which oil depots the stolen oil is going to and show it to the international community. Westerners will certainly deny the role of Turkey, but we will at least insist on it.
    Next, why not think about using Syrians not to ambush and intercept a couple of caravans of oil. After all, Assad also needs oil, but besides this, if you manage to capture the drivers of this caravan (preferably Turks of course), then again you can convey all this through the media to the whole world, so that anyone who does not want to take the Turkish and American point of view regarding the financing of ISIS, I could get confirmation of this.
    Further, if we argue, then perhaps some "Kurdish guerrillas" (and maybe ISIS itself) mine trucks with stolen oil, and so that they rush to the territory of a tank farm or oil refinery in Turkey, where they are being transported. If this happens, then those who buy this oil will probably have to seriously think about whether it is worth doing it further.
    I remember the oil storage facility exploded near Kiev, and then they extinguished it for two weeks.
    1. aleks26
      aleks26 30 November 2015 12: 02
      +2
      still pirates can capture / sink Turkish tankers. They are.
    2. aleks26
      aleks26 30 November 2015 12: 02
      0
      still pirates can capture / sink Turkish tankers. They are.
  18. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 30 November 2015 12: 41
    0
    There is no need to "flog a fever" on this issue, but in no case should the Turks' meanness be left unpunished! But revenge is a "cold dish", and haste is needed only in those cases: ... (you know in which ones)! I think it's too early to doubt the response of our leadership, let's wait a little, because "chickens are counted in the fall!"
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Victorio
      Victorio 30 November 2015 21: 11
      +1
      Quote: kartalovkolya
      There is no need to "flog a fever" on this issue, but also leave unpunished the meanness of the Turks in no case is it possible! But revenge is a "cold dish", and haste is needed only in those cases: ... (you yourself know in which ones)! I think it's too early to doubt the response of our leadership, let's wait a little, because "chickens are counted in the fall!"

      =====
      Yes, not the Turks, but the current leadership of Turkey. the best option for everyone would be the removal of this Turkish leadership by the military or a vote of no confidence in the people.
    3. NIKNN
      NIKNN 30 November 2015 21: 41
      +2
      kartalovkolya (2) RU Today, 12:41

      There is no need to "flog a fever" on this issue, but in no case should the Turks' meanness be left unpunished! But revenge is a "cold dish", and haste is needed only in those cases: ... (you know in which ones)! I think it's too early to doubt the response of our leadership, let's wait a little, because "chickens are counted in the fall!"


      That's exactly what cold revenge is served ......., and eight count the chickens! lol
  19. ILIA
    ILIA 30 November 2015 12: 49
    +1
    What friends we have no friends ..
  20. Leks69Rus
    Leks69Rus 30 November 2015 13: 10
    +8
    Dear experts and patriots. I understand everything, Turkey is so bad, now we’ll tear it like an ace rag, etc. But here is my question. I am a person who likes to delve into the details and before shouting something it is unfoundedly used to figuring out how things are in this or that sphere. So here we are talking about the actual hypothetical conflict between our Air Force (VKS) and the Turkish Air Force. So Turkey has about 200 F-16s in service, which is certainly quite a lot for such a relatively compact country. But about our VKS I have a grain of doubt. Finding information on the quantitative composition of at least an example is not difficult. But the quality of information is contradictory. I'll start with Mig-29, according to Wikipedia we have 200 of them, which is not enough. But here is the quality, the comment goes further that of them only about 30 have been modernized! The rest is recognized to be impractical to upgrade due to wear and tear on the machines. It is not possible to assess the state of these other 100-odd cars, but it seems that the original MIG-29 has been deprecated, it is subject to decommissioning and preference is given to modern aircraft at the Su-27 base. And this is sad, since the direct competitor of the f-16 turned out to be extremely successful, about 4500 thousand cars were produced, the success of the f-16 is relatively inexpensive, a universal fighter-bomber. Why our moment did not become so incomprehensible, although apparently the car is successful, at least in terms of design and flight characteristics. We pass to the su-27 family of the same about 250+ of all modifications. But only 27 of them upgraded to the su-50cm version, about 40 su-30s, and 40 su-35s are still modernized. Moreover, for example, India has more than 200 Su-30s with a procurement panel of up to 300. And these are modern fighters. The total that we have, apparently, the usual MIG-29 can be deleted from the list of modern combat-ready aircraft. You can take into account only 30 mig-29 modernized. Further, su, total of the order of 50 su-27cm + 40 su-30 + 40 su-35. Altogether, there are about 120 fighters for our entire great and great power that have undergone modernization or were bought anew, in general those aircraft that can be considered modern, combat-ready and capable of repelling a serious enemy, such as Turkey. I don’t take the su-34, but in a certain situation he can and can stand up for himself, for example, against some outdated types of fighter jets, but will they lie on the shoulder to conduct a full-fledged battle with modern fighters. So the question is, how did we get to such a life that countries like India have a more modern fighter fleet than our country. Yes, I understand that our armed forces are much more extensive than in India (submarines, nuclear weapons and much more). But the fact is that in a modern war it is the air force that decides the outcome of the war, and we have about 100 su-35 plans in total by 2020, and there will still be a total of 60 su-35cm. But this is not enough! at best, by 2020 we will have 200 modern fighters and is that a decent figure? I can assume on the fly that for a country like us, the minimum is at the level of 400 cars.
    1. Trigger-Happy
      Trigger-Happy 30 November 2015 16: 40
      +3
      You write everything right, for 25 years of wild capitalism everything has been stolen in aviation, and you need to restore it! Although now, apparently, this has become clear and steps are being taken in this direction. The technology update program is designed until 2020 (though at other oil prices), and apparently this figure should be danced. Until that time, any sharp movements of the military character are canceled.
      1. Leks69Rus
        Leks69Rus 30 November 2015 20: 25
        0
        I don’t understand why the rearmament program started so late, actually after 2010. What prevented in the fat years 2004-2010 start urgent modernization, the same su-30cm was delivered to the whole of India, which prevented us from acting on the principle of 1 India 1. Either the same t-90s, or at that time could upgrade the t-72 to b3, it was more justified than now.
    2. Olezhek
      Olezhek 30 November 2015 19: 12
      0
      Parsing
      http://fapnews.ru/203634-razbor-vvs-turtsii-ankare-nechego-protivopostavit-rossi
      i/
    3. Valentine
      Valentine 2 December 2015 22: 04
      0
      Read the calculations in the Russian Armed Forces superior to the Turkish army in all respects. There everything is said about the armament of both countries.
  21. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 30 November 2015 13: 12
    +6
    In principle, it is already clear that the guys died solely through the fault of the command. All of this could have been prevented at the operational duty level. They spat or hoped for a chance. I think they will soon find the switchman.
    If this is not so, then there is the second option, but it is much worse. It turns out that our locator from the S-400 did not really see either Turkish planes or missiles, or the communication was suppressed and the crew could not warn, but I do not even want to think about it, because then we have nothing at all against America.
  22. Northern Fleet
    Northern Fleet 30 November 2015 13: 14
    -7


    what do you think comrades
    1. Tanysh
      Tanysh 30 November 2015 15: 34
      +2
      I think that the equipment should be cleaned. And then you listen to hohlonovosti
      and so the hands itch !!
      Only it is necessary to send a team of builders home.
      Dill no one pulls want to wash floors in the EU let them go.
      1. Trigger-Happy
        Trigger-Happy 30 November 2015 17: 01
        +2
        I think this clever commentator would be dropped there with a big parachute so that he would fly slowly, slowly and catch a couple of kilos of lead in himself !!!!
  23. 31rus
    31rus 30 November 2015 13: 38
    +2
    Dear author, our "Wishlist" and the official policy of the Kremlin are different things, on TV they have already calculated the damage to Turkey, as before Ukraine and the EU, but who counts their own damage? The weak position of the Kremlin in this situation leads to disturbing thoughts, we all look to the West, everything we are waiting for something, we hope for everything. Why? Ukraine, relations with the EU, Syria, is it not enough already? Or are there not the right people in the country's leadership?
  24. Ze Kot
    Ze Kot 30 November 2015 13: 57
    0
    "and immediately went into the rear hemisphere (tail) of our car; thirdly, we used a short-range air-to-air missile with IKGSN, which did not allow the aircraft's radar warning system to detect the fact of a missile attack and make an anti-missile maneuver . "

    And when the plane was targeted, did the system not react either? There was any time before launch.
  25. thinker
    thinker 30 November 2015 16: 17
    0
    Quote: aszzz888
    Basurmans will not retreat from their geoplanes.
    They now need our discredit as air. For any reason, and without reason.
    We must wait for another provocation, for which the spirits are great masters.

    I hope the new concept is not only for the VKS soldier
    In the area where the Russian Ministry of Defense sent the most powerful warship of the Black Sea Fleet - the cruiser "Moscow", the Turkish Navy deployed two submarines at once, which should monitor the Russian ship. This was reported by Interfax with reference to Istanbul media.

    http://izvestia.ru/news/597618#ixzz3syoe8QOk
  26. Bjorn
    Bjorn 30 November 2015 17: 43
    +1
    I am wholly and completely on the side of those who believe that the time is coming when it will no longer be possible to do without the use of nuclear weapons. And I also think that no one will decide to start a full-fledged nuclear war even after this.
    However, I think it is necessary to remember that if a full-blown nuclear war starts, it will not be possible to relocate the plants beyond the Urals, as in an explosive. The whole territory of Russia will be under attack. The release of tanks, planes, ships and missiles will cease forever. Therefore, the war will win the one who after the exchange of blows they will remain more.
    It is necessary to make sure that in case of the enemy’s arrival on Russian soil, a shot is fired from every radioactive bush, boulder or destroyed building, so that even 34 matches from pedestals shoot.
    In the meantime ... riveting and riveting tanks, planes, ships and missiles. There is still an opportunity.
    And God forbid that I make a mistake.
  27. Blacks
    Blacks 30 November 2015 20: 07
    0
    nothing new .... everything forgotten old .... well, let's see who has stronger teeth
  28. Hitrovan07
    Hitrovan07 30 November 2015 20: 16
    +3
    Erdogan MUST BE DESTROYED.
  29. Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 30 November 2015 20: 51
    0

    Armed. But everything seems to be quiet.
  30. tovarisch
    tovarisch 30 November 2015 21: 55
    0
    Quote: Pissarro
    With all due respect to your fleet, he will not be able to compete with the Turkish one, do not go too far. He even surpasses the strength of our Black Sea Fleet and is a rather formidable force.


    Destroy the ships of Turkey will not be the fleet of Israel, but its aircraft.
  31. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 30 November 2015 22: 41
    0
    Quote: Olezhek
    Parsing
    http://fapnews.ru/203634-razbor-vvs-turtsii-ankare-nechego-protivopostavit-rossi

    i/


    Yes, you do not read this. The author heard the ringing but does not know where he is. I also found a military expert.

    in fact, it's almost the opposite.

    God praise you for turning off the Internet to the General Staff!

    Praise you, Lord, for the fact that our generals do not agree with this opinion!

    How many of our revengeless pilots and the best airplanes of the Russian Air Force could die if they did not have a completely different opinion about the capabilities of the Turkish Air Force and Air Defense.
  32. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 30 November 2015 22: 46
    0
    Quote: Leks69Rus
    Dear experts and patriots. I understand everything, Turkey is so bad, now we’ll tear it like an ace rag, etc. But here is my question. I am a person who likes to delve into the details and before shouting something it is unfoundedly used to figuring out how things are in this or that sphere. So here we are talking about the actual hypothetical conflict between our Air Force (VKS) and the Turkish Air Force. So Turkey has about 200 F-16s in service, which is certainly quite a lot for such a relatively compact country. But about our VKS I have a grain of doubt. Finding information on the quantitative composition of at least an example is not difficult. But the quality of information is contradictory. I'll start with Mig-29, according to Wikipedia we have 200 of them, which is not enough. But here is the quality, the comment goes further that of them only about 30 have been modernized! The rest is recognized to be impractical to upgrade due to wear and tear on the machines. It is not possible to assess the state of these other 100-odd cars, but it seems that the original MIG-29 has been deprecated, it is subject to decommissioning and preference is given to modern aircraft at the Su-27 base. And this is sad, since the direct competitor of the f-16 turned out to be extremely successful, about 4500 thousand cars were produced, the success of the f-16 is relatively inexpensive, a universal fighter-bomber. Why our moment did not become so incomprehensible, although apparently the car is successful, at least in terms of design and flight characteristics. We pass to the su-27 family of the same about 250+ of all modifications. But only 27 of them upgraded to the su-50cm version, about 40 su-30s, and 40 su-35s are still modernized. Moreover, for example, India has more than 200 Su-30s with a procurement panel of up to 300. And these are modern fighters. The total that we have, apparently, the usual MIG-29 can be deleted from the list of modern combat-ready aircraft. You can take into account only 30 mig-29 modernized. Further, su, total of the order of 50 su-27cm + 40 su-30 + 40 su-35. Altogether, there are about 120 fighters for our entire great and great power that have undergone modernization or were bought anew, in general those aircraft that can be considered modern, combat-ready and capable of repelling a serious enemy, such as Turkey. I don’t take the su-34, but in a certain situation he can and can stand up for himself, for example, against some outdated types of fighter jets, but will they lie on the shoulder to conduct a full-fledged battle with modern fighters. So the question is, how did we get to such a life that countries like India have a more modern fighter fleet than our country. Yes, I understand that our armed forces are much more extensive than in India (submarines, nuclear weapons and much more). But the fact is that in a modern war it is the air force that decides the outcome of the war, and we have about 100 su-35 plans in total by 2020, and there will still be a total of 60 su-35cm. But this is not enough! at best, by 2020 we will have 200 modern fighters and is that a decent figure? I can assume on the fly that for a country like us, the minimum is at the level of 400 cars.


    Well, the reality is even sadder. You didn’t notice the elephant.
    The devil is in the details as always ...
  33. tinibar
    tinibar 30 November 2015 22: 47
    0
    Quote: Glot
    Put the S-400. Well done !!! Now double the annihilation of these reptiles from all sorts of igil Shmegilov and their accomplices of the air. Shuffle them with their shit all the way !!!
    And on the NATO and US emissions to us - put with the device! You must bend your line to the end, and bend all who are against.

    The more consistent and IMMEDIATE we will be in our actions, the less desire will SUPOSTAT contact us ...
  34. Belarus
    Belarus 2 December 2015 16: 15
    0
    Lord help Russia survive, give her strength, the wisdom of patience and composure in the fight against evil that wants to destroy Russia.
  35. NordUral
    NordUral 2 December 2015 17: 17
    0
    In short - a full-scale and layered deployment of the cover forces of our air forces.
  36. BARKHAN
    BARKHAN 2 December 2015 18: 25
    +4
    I reread everything. There’s porridge in my head. And a bunch of options ...
    We need to rest and think. But still, it seems to me that we can’t get away from the big war ... But why? Because we are kind!
    Now, if in the 45th from Germany there would be one big ashes sprinkled with salt ... it is unlikely that I think, at least to anyone, it would occur to us to bullseer now ...
    And we again run into our "elite", which keeps families and money over the hill ... I don't understand why Putin's daughters live abroad? Why is Lavrov's daughter in America? I certainly trust them, but sometimes doubts gnaw ...
    And the rest have a lower rank, so without exception they keep everything of value over the hill ... with a few exceptions.
    Dear AKSAKAL, he said that it was necessary to close the nuclear topic. To be worthy of your ancestors and beat the Turks with simple weapons ... That is, as I understand it, to break through the Caucasus Mountains through the passes and gorges, being attacked by partisans, and pacifying Georgia along the way with Azerbaijan? That is, abundantly pour water on these damned mountains with Russian blood?
    Doom yourself to dozens, or maybe hundreds of thousands of dead ... instead of taking Turkey out of the game with precision and speed?
    And to hell with us such a weapon that does not protect us?
    After all, no one suggests mindlessly pouring right and left ...
    But it is necessary to formally, and best of all at the UN at all, expose Turkey an ultimatum ...
    In the event of an attack on our bases, TNW attacks on Turkish military facilities.
    In the case of overlapping straits, TNW strikes against Turkish military installations.
    In the event of an attack on our fleet, TNW attacks on Turkish military facilities.
    The same text to send to NATO. Point.
    And do not discuss anything with anyone.
    And so that the "partners" have no doubts about inflicting such a blow on ISIS bases somewhere in the desert ...
    All other options will lead to our defeat, because there are more stupid enemies!
  37. kirpich
    kirpich 2 December 2015 19: 16
    +1
    Quote: Pissarro
    With all due respect to your fleet, he will not be able to compete with the Turkish one, do not go too far. He even surpasses the strength of our Black Sea Fleet and is a rather formidable force.


    Then, I remember how in 1991, our missile cruiser Moskva (then called Slava) wanted to go from the Black Sea through the Bosphorus to the Mediterranean Sea on alert. And THREE Turkish ships stood in his way to prevent him from entering the Bosphorus. The commander of our cruiser, without slowing down, ordered to uncover the main battery guns and select targets. IN THIRTY MINUTES, THE WHOLE FARVATER WAS FREE !!!

    Who has doubts google help
    http://narod-novosti.com/armiya-i-oruzhie/?p=raketnyij-krejser-slava-protiv-treh
    -turetskih-korablej
  38. Alekspel
    Alekspel 2 December 2015 19: 24
    0
    If our air defense systems were delivered to Libya and Iraq at one time, then even then the defeat of Gaddafi and Saddam could have been avoided. And now we have to slurp what they could slurp with ameri-braids.
  39. fdg45tfh
    fdg45tfh 2 December 2015 20: 36
    -1
    Guys, I want to give advice on how to quit smoking easily! The folk remedy with which I was cured in a week also affected my wife and friends, now I recommend it to everyone - http://nnosov-d.blogspot.com
  40. xoma58
    xoma58 2 December 2015 20: 46
    0
    The Roman general and statesman Cato the Elder, the implacable enemy of Carthage, ended all his speeches (regardless of their subject) in the Senate with the phrase: “In addition, I think that Carthage should be destroyed” (Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam). I think this expression, now, is perfectly suited to the situation with Turkey (with a small letter,).
  41. facktor
    facktor 2 December 2015 21: 39
    0
    Not for a laugh, because it’s no laughing matter, to do so - a Russian fighter flies along the border of Turkey and in the open air in good English invites "a vile Turkish pilot who treacherously shot down an unarmed, albeit military, Russian plane, take off and take an honest battle ". If he refuses - a moral victory is ours, if he accepts the fight - let's see what their insides are.
  42. CRASH
    CRASH 3 December 2015 00: 50
    +1
    In Syria, a plane like a Yankee, with a 120mm cannon, machine guns there, etc. would be useful. He wouldn’t have a price if he flew for 6 hours and "relieved himself" on crazy heads.
  43. holod19
    holod19 3 December 2015 02: 38
    +2
    Quote: Pissarro
    With all due respect to your fleet, he will not be able to compete with the Turkish one, do not go too far. He even surpasses the strength of our Black Sea Fleet and is a rather formidable force.

    Dear! Do you think the advantage of the Turks in number ??? Then you are wrong! We must look at the stuffing of what floats in the Turks, and the fact that he walks with us by the sea !!!!!! (in the sense of armament)
    And another important fact is the FIGHTING SPIRIT !!! At all of us he’s just going wild! And he was never at the height of a basurman - learn history! The battle at Sinope - 1853 - the complete defeat of the Turks with their numerical superiority, the fleet of RUSSIA was headed by the ADMIRAL OF THE FLEET NAKHIMOV!
    1. demidov.evg
      demidov.evg 3 December 2015 09: 12
      0
      Quote: holod19
      Quote: Pissarro
      With all due respect to your fleet, he will not be able to compete with the Turkish one, do not go too far. He even surpasses the strength of our Black Sea Fleet and is a rather formidable force.

      Dear! Do you think the advantage of the Turks in number ??? Then you are wrong! We must look at the stuffing of what floats in the Turks, and the fact that he walks with us by the sea !!!!!! (in the sense of armament)
      And another important fact is the FIGHTING SPIRIT !!! At all of us he’s just going wild! And he was never at the height of a basurman - learn history! The battle at Sinope - 1853 - the complete defeat of the Turks with their numerical superiority, the fleet of RUSSIA was headed by the ADMIRAL OF THE FLEET NAKHIMOV!

      You are right, but you don’t need hatreds either. I do not know the details of the technical filling and other parameters of the Turkish Black Sea and our Black Sea Fleet. But it is quite possible that the Turkish fleet on the Black Sea is indeed twice as strong as ours. You have to be prepared for everything. Including, and to a heavy war with losses and even a series of military defeats. At the same time, one must always believe in one’s people and country, and the correctness of one’s cause, and inevitability of victory.
      And, of course, peace is better than war. In this case, neither Russia nor Turkey needs a war between Russia and Turkey. (But the United States and the British need it).
  44. demidov.evg
    demidov.evg 3 December 2015 08: 32
    0
    Quote: Maz
    Turkey closed the straits in accordance with the "Montreux" agreement, now what will we feed our own, by air, overflying the same Turkey? Why not throw a vigorous bomb on it?

    If you claim that Turkey has ALREADY closed the straits in accordance with the Montreux agreement, then you are either incorrectly informed, or, conversely, have exclusive information that is not yet available in any (normal) media! Most likely, the first one. Some Russian A couple of days ago, the media wrote a similar nonsense about the closure of the straits. In fact, Turkey did not close and could not close the straits in accordance with the Montreux agreement, since there was no reason for this yet. Such can only be a declaration of war or an action that could to be equated with such (it already depends on the Turks themselves, if they want to, they will equate it.) For example, if our people shoot down a Turkish plane over Syria or unilaterally cut off the gas supply. Russia will never go to the second, only as a retaliatory measure, but the first is completely but so far the Turks do not dare to provoke and do not fly over Syria.
    As for "throwing a nuclear bomb" - this will never happen, because in the Russian leadership there are no thugs and idiots. It is possible to sit on the couch and speculate, picking your nose, and not hitting Turkey with TNW ("having in mind the strategic nuclear weapons" for the Americans). Never and under no circumstances will Russia use nuclear weapons unless absolutely necessary, which can only be the prospect of an inevitable global defeat in a war, coupled with the loss of sovereignty, or a response to an enemy nuclear strike. What do you think Turkey can inflict such a defeat on Russia, take over Moscow? Or deliver a nuclear strike?
    Before writing monstrous nonsense about nuclear bombs - and this, unfortunately, very many write - it would be nice to turn to common sense and conscience.
    Sorry for the sharpness.
  45. Filxnumx
    Filxnumx 6 December 2015 18: 20
    0
    Quote: max702
    And they will squeeze us there by conventional means, at least the contingent in Syria will destroy the military stability of our forces there now is negligible! one armored division would be enough for the Turks to roll everything into dust and it would take them 5-6 hours to do this. How and how will we react? It only comes to mind .. TNW ..

    And how much will a mixed 3 squadron helicopter regiment (2 on the Mi-24 and 1 on the Mi-8) need to load the ammunition and, having received target designation on the column of the tank division, mix it with roadside dust? I answer: 3 hours, if you make 2 sorties with a full complement, with a fighter cover and special forces landing on the Mi-8.
    In fact, Latakia is quite enough to cross the relief, it is not a problem to hide the turntables in the folds of the terrain, even a whole regiment. Even if the Turks use their AWACS, it is easily knocked out of the "Moscow" or ground S-300, S-400. And for one downed helicopter, at least 5 - 6 tanks are consumed, and the Mi-8 squadron remains in reserve.
  46. Oleg55555
    Oleg55555 10 January 2018 00: 37
    0
    In response, these Turks had to be so fucked that they were shaking from only one mention of the word Russia.