Military Review

Universal soldier and his equipment. Part of 2

40

The use of 40-mm grenades reached its maximum during the fighting in Afghanistan. However, the constant development in this area contribute to the fact that these munitions remain popular and are widely used in modern combat situations


Mortality

Mortality remains one of the priorities for the dismounted soldier and special operations forces (MTR), while many countries in the military debate about the optimal caliber assault and sniper rifles, as well as pistols and revolvers. In Afghanistan, the multinational forces of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) expanded their arsenals and added a 5,56-mm caliber sniper rifle to the traditional 9-mm assault rifles and 7,62-mm pistols. mm assault rifles have a maximum range of real 800 fire meters. In addition, during this conflict, 5,56-mm rifle-grenade automatic grenade launchers entered the armament of branches and settlements in large quantities.

However, besides increasing the range of real fire, another important requirement was the arming of one of the members of the department weapons 7,62 caliber mm. NATO forces have long criticized the 5,56 mm cartridge for its insufficient power and destructive power, which could incapacitate targets for a long time, and even better forever. During the Cold War, the "humane" 5,56-mm bullet was intended not only for the temporary removal of targets from combat, but also for those military personnel who were forced to provide medical assistance.

Nevertheless, the operations of the international contingent in Afghanistan to clean up the territory, as well as to clean up the buildings of the American army in Iraq, have shown that soldiers need a sufficient stopping effect to ensure the destruction of enemy soldiers. That is why, during the initial period of these campaigns, many units sometimes took out suitable weapons in various ways and carried out their operations, armed with 7,62-mm machine guns and sniper rifles, and not 5,56-mm assault rifles.

One of the representatives of an industrial enterprise, closely associated with the NATO MTR, explained: “The error with 5,56 mm lies in the length of the barrel. In order to maintain the kinetic effect necessary to inflict bodily injury, the weapon must have a barrel at least 508 mm long. ” The M16A4 Colt assault rifle and the modernized SA80A3 Heckler & Koch rifle, which are in service with the American and British armies, respectively, currently have barrels of exactly this length.

Starting to use 5,56 mm weapons in combat operations in urban areas during the Gulf War in 1991 and subsequent operations, the US military realized that the shortened barrel version of the M16 carbine is still capable of delivering enough kinetic energy to a living target to kill it from the distance 300 meters. The Colt M4A1 carbine variant received a barrel with a length of 368 mm and entered service with the US military in 1994 year.

At distances greater than 300 meters, the 368-mm barrel did not have enough length to disperse the M5,56 855-mm bullet to the desired speed and is guaranteed to disable the target. As a result, there were very often reports from Afghanistan and from other theaters of war, when the soldiers, responding to insurgent fire, firing AK-47 machine guns from a distance of 600 meters, felt at the same time “insufficiently armed”.

This obvious inequality of opportunities requires certain changes in the future equipment of soldiers and special forces, and here many countries see the solution in promising weapons systems of various calibers and with barrels of different lengths. In order to fix this obvious problem, the US Navy and the Special Operations Command decided to concentrate on achieving the “knockdown effect”, which was made possible by refining the usual M855 bullet into an open-tip bullet that more likely tumbles inside the target than goes straight through her Such a bullet causes more serious injuries to the internal tissues, that is, it has an increased lethal force. The development of a bullet with an open tip led to the appearance of the 5,56-mm cartridge Mk.318 Mod.0 and the 7,62-mm cartridge Mk.319 Mod.0 with soft lead bullets, which entered service with the USMC 2010 year.

Universal soldier and his equipment. Part of 2

The Iraqi security forces soldier is undergoing combat training. Like his opponents from the Islamic state, he is armed with an AK-47 assault rifle, which has remained the favorite small arms of many rebel groups for several decades.


The 5,56 mm HK416 assault rifle from Heckler & Koch was adopted by NATO special forces along with the 7,62 mm version of the HK417. This 7,62mm rifle with increased lethality is used by snipers in close combat

In these new bullets, the lead core sits freely on the copper core, the edges of which unbend when they hit the target and release the lead core. Curved edges and the lead core itself cause catastrophic damage to the internal tissues of a person, passing through the tissue without deviations. According to one of the specialists in the ammunition industry: “This means that when hit into the windshield of a car, the lead core forms a hole, which with sufficient accuracy passes through the core that follows it. Such a bullet is just suitable for shooting the head of a suicide bomber driving a car with explosives. This type of bullet is known under the designation OTMRP (Open-Tipped Match Rear Penetrator - open tip, high-precision, with a rear core) or "bullet that does not notice obstacles". "

Recent developments in the field of small arms ammunition include the Enhanced Performance Round (EPR) Enhanced Performance Round (EPR) cartridge and the Orbital ATK Special Operations Science and Technology (SOST) 5,56 cartridge. They were developed jointly with the Research Center for Arms of Naval Surface Weapon Systems in Dahlgren, after which they began to be delivered to the US Navy special forces. 5,56-mm SOST with a smaller muzzle flame was created to improve accuracy and improved penetration of obstacles. Deliveries under the contract worth 5,56 million dollars must be completed this year. Also available 49-mm version of this cartridge.

Discussing a similar experience gained in operations in Afghanistan in recent years, the head of weapons programs in the New Zealand defense forces, Phil Collet, said that conventional infantry units clearly felt the superiority of the Taliban AK-7,62 X-guns. Army units were armed with the Steyr Mannlicher GmbH F47 Austeyr assault rifle, firing standard 88-mm cartridges; thus, the face was a great illustration of the debate on caliber. However, he clarified that there are advantages when working with 5,56-mm ammunition, especially when conducting urban operations. "In densely populated areas, you should always think about the civilian population ... At least with the 5,56-mm cartridge you know that it will not pass through the target, unlike other larger calibers."

The military, along with industry, is also making great efforts to develop 6,5-mm ammunition for assault rifles. For example, PNW Ammunition, in conjunction with the Research Center for Surface Naval Weapon Systems, is developing a cartridge with optimal characteristics that will replace the 5,56-mm cartridge. As a substitute, other cartridges are also being actively promoted, for example .260 Remington and 6.5 Grendel. The latter is an optimal compromise on the combination of ballistic qualities, striking effects, recoil momentum and dimensions and mass of ammunition, occupying a niche between the NATO 7.62x51 NATO and NATO 5.56x45 cartridges.

Based on the extensive practice of using the 6,5 mm caliber in civilian long-distance shooting competitions, it was recognized that the ballistic coefficient (an indicator of an object’s ability to overcome aerodynamic drag in flight) is significantly higher than that of 5,56-mm or 7,62-mm ammunition. The ammunition specialist continued further: “It passes through the air more smoothly and, therefore, better keeps its trajectory. In addition, it is not so slow in the air and with its heavier bullet (120 grams compared to 62 grams for 5,56-mm bullets) retains kinetic energy at much greater distances compared to bullets of 5,56 mm and 7,62 mm. This means that AK-47 will no longer be able to surpass it at a distance of more than 300 meters. ”

In fact, the US military wants to get a more accurate cartridge that is able to deliver more kinetic energy from shorter stems and, apparently, the 6,5 mm cartridge represents a real proposal with an additional bonus in the form of a polymer sleeve, which allows you to reduce weight by 34 percent compared to conventional cartridges. In addition, a soldier will be able to load 25-mm cartridges into the 6,5 magazine compared to 30 5,56-mm cartridges and 20 7,62-mm cartridges. “The probability of hitting and the likelihood of injuries increases so much that for sniper rifles, assault rifles and machine guns the overall probability of hitting the target increases significantly. From this moment you begin to change the rules of the game. "

In August 2015, a demonstration was conducted by the British Ministry of Defense. Specialists at the same time say that the best solution is to combine a barrel with a length of 406 mm and an 6,5 mm bullet with an expansive tip, which is capable of piercing mud walls (similar to those found everywhere in Afghanistan) and the water column in 600 mm. According to experts, the caliber 6,5 mm is able to inflict more damage to the target, in addition, it has a sufficient stopping effect even after overcoming an obstacle. “The damage inflicted on the object by the 6,5-mm-7-mm bullet eliminates all the disadvantages associated with the transition from the 5,56 mm caliber to the 6,5 mm caliber, while also the 6,5-mm-7-mm caliber due to the mass, jet impulse and combat charge It has the greatest impact on the final trajectory compared to 5,56-mm and 7,62-mm ammunition. An intermediate cartridge (type of cartridge for firearms, intermediate in power between rifle and pistol cartridge) with characteristics similar to those of the 6.5 Grendel cartridge is considered as a candidate. In addition, the possibility of using lightweight polymer sleeves for an intermediate-caliber cartridge, which can later replace 5.56x45 mm and 7.62x51 mm cartridges, is being explored. ”

However, any revolutionary transitions from the 5,56 mm to the “optimal caliber” will require significant costs and a lot of logistic work and most likely will require the leadership of the US Department of Defense, which will help organize work among other NATO members. Whether members of the alliance have a similar desire for change, especially in light of current financial constraints, remains to be seen, but there is certainly an interest in this topic.

Until then, the design of the assault rifle most likely will not change, although there is information about the development, with the participation of the British Laboratory of Defense Science and Technology, of a demonstration rifle, which should confirm the concept of 6,5-mm ammunition. There is no more information on this issue, although experts say that the transition from the 5,56 mm caliber to the 6,5 mm caliber will not be so difficult, you just need to replace the barrel and the upper part of the receiver.


The NATO MTR and the Afghan National Security Forces perform the same tasks, while their equipment is significantly different in everything, from small arms to helmets, instruments, communications and uniforms

In the meantime, NATO forces continue to make the most of 5,56mm assault rifles from the best manufacturers, including Heckler & Koch, whose HK416 (5,56mm) and HK417 (7,62mm) remain the first order MTR weapons of choice. , including the first special forces group of the American army "Delta", which has been in service with these systems for several years. Other NATO and First Order MTR countries use the same or similar weapons, including the C7 Colt Canada assault rifle family and variants of the M4 Colt carbine with different barrel lengths (for different types of combat operations). But experts warn that at the global level (with the exception of the United States), there remains a serious lack of doctrinal support regarding which path the rest of the first-order MTRs should take regarding their future weapons. Then they reason: “The world is just following the US model. Britain, Canada, and other countries simply cannot afford to adapt the same tactics as the United States, because the wars in which we will participate and the methods we will fight in them will require a different impact. Are we fighting an enemy with good protection and, therefore, we need good armor penetration (increased probability of bullets to pass through the target with less damage) or are we fighting unprotected Taliban fighters who just need to be killed by the kinetic impulse of the bullet? "

Given the fact that in the next ten years, many programs should be launched to replace assault rifles, such considerations undoubtedly have a great influence on their further development. Any change of caliber entails many problems, including organizational and logistical, but saving the life of a dismounted soldier is paramount. Meanwhile, the world continues to follow the program of the US Army on the service modular pistol MHS (Modular Handgun System), the draft requirement for which was published on June 17. Under this program, several alternative calibers are considered for a Beretta M9 pistol of 9 mm caliber in service.

The US Department of Defense recently stated that they did not deny the possibility of developing special ammunition for a new pistol, as is already happening with ammunition for 5,56-mm rifles. As expected, the overall need will make 500000 pistols, not only for the army, but also for the US Air Force and Navy, including 7000 compact options for special tasks. The final request for proposals is expected in 2016 year, and the issuance of the contract is scheduled for 2017 year.

Many renowned small arms specialists are showing interest in this program, including Glock, Sig Sauer, Beretta, Smith & Wesson and others. Heckler & Koch, for example, wants to offer their P30 pistol in two versions, chambered for 9mm and .40; this pistol has a short bolt carrier and a barrel without external safety. If the US Army wants to opt for a larger .45 weapon, the company will be able to offer its own HK45 pistol in this case, which has interchangeable butt plates of various shapes and sizes. Another interested company, FN Herstal, can offer their FNX-45 pistol, available in several versions, chambered in 9mm, .40, .45 and .57 cartridges. The FNX-45 pistol is built on the principle of using recoil energy with a short barrel stroke.


An expansive 6,5 caliber cartridge mm is offered as a solution with more lethal force. It guarantees the destruction of targets from the first shot, which is not the case with 5,56 mm ammunition, which is criticized for the lack of stopping power.

Materials used:
www.forces.gc.ca
www.gov.uk
www.navsea.navy.mil
www.orbitalatk.com
www.armada.ch
www.mku.com
www.baesystems.com
www.generaldynamics.com
www.coltcanada.com
40 comments
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  1. ArcanAG
    ArcanAG 1 December 2015 06: 51 New
    +3
    Are expansive bullets not prohibited for use in hostilities?
    1. would
      would 1 December 2015 07: 10 New
      +5
      Forbidden. Therefore, it is not completely clear why they are here ...
    2. bunta
      bunta 1 December 2015 18: 44 New
      +2
      In hostilities between states. The Taliban and ISIS are not states, they do not apply.
  2. inkass_98
    inkass_98 1 December 2015 07: 24 New
    +5
    Quote: rait
    An expansive 6,5 mm caliber cartridge guarantees the destruction of targets from the first shot

    If such a pretzel with expansive rounds is taken alive on the battlefield, then he will die for a very long time and painfully, there can be no doubt.
    Expansive ammunition is used in hunting and police weapons, with the goal of destroying an object with the first hit due to the large stopping power of the bullet. But in police weapons (pistols), the flight speed of a bullet is incomparable with a machine gun or an assault rifle, when the victim's insides turn into mincemeat or a hand comes off after the first hit.
    1. would
      would 2 December 2015 14: 45 New
      +1
      incomparable with an assault rifle or assault rifle, when the victim’s insides turn into mincemeat or the hand comes off after the first hit.


      Well, about the detachment of the hand, this is clearly a bust if it is not a monstrous 12 gauge. It really can in theory lead to traumatic amputation of the arm, but such cases are unknown to me. Well, except that the ultramagnum and with an accurate hit in the bone. The Americans, by the way, use expansive bullets in assault rifles and other types of police weapons. For civilians, in the same way, for the necessary defense, it is recommended to use semi-swept ones.

      In general, the Yankees overtook us in bullets very much, they have very serious developments, including those related to half-enveloped bullets.
  3. cobalt
    cobalt 1 December 2015 07: 46 New
    +9
    Here it is the first automatic machine operating under the 6.5 mm cartridge that was actually used in combat
    1. rotmistr60
      rotmistr60 1 December 2015 08: 01 New
      +3
      Again a return to yesterday. Fedorov assault rifle, cartridge calibers. This is a topic that is constantly raised in the specialized press and which gunsmiths do not forget. So let's see what our gunsmiths decide and we will "dance" from this.
      1. avt
        avt 1 December 2015 10: 31 New
        0
        Quote: rotmistr60
        So let's see what our gunsmiths decide and we will "dance" from this.

        No. It’s not gunsmiths who decide, but the Moscow Region and the country's leadership, who shouldn’t throw in the money to replace weapons, fire stock for them and re-equipping existing production. Well, what’s the result? Will the effect be an order of magnitude higher, as with Kalash? I doubt very much. Even the US does not bother with the transition to a new caliber in the army with 5,56.
        1. IS-80
          IS-80 1 December 2015 11: 36 New
          0
          Quote: avt
          I doubt very much. Even the US does not bother with the transition to a new caliber in the army with 5,56.

          I wonder what next? Rifle cartridge return? As far as I remember, the heavy "Warrior" holds 7,62x54.
          1. jogin
            jogin 1 December 2015 12: 18 New
            0
            Quote: IS-80
            Interesting, and then what? On rifle cartridge return?

            Watching from whom. The Americans have nothing. Everything is more or less optimal.
            In Russia, they may soon mature to replace 5,45x39 mm. If there will be money. Or, do not ripen. If they will not be.
            The 5,45x39 mm cartridge itself is rather weak, but not to say that it’s really bad, in the most extreme case you can put up with it. It is the ultimate in power for the AK-74. So if they will change, then only together with the AK-74.
            The situation will change dramatically if they invent another kind of bullet of a new, third type.
        2. jogin
          jogin 1 December 2015 12: 09 New
          0
          Quote: avt
          Even the US does not bother with the transition to a new caliber in the army with 5,56.

          And who said that weapons in the caliber of 6,5 mm would be better than weapons in the caliber of 5,56 mm? Definitely will be worse. What is repeatedly proved by tests. Therefore, it will never be replaced. At least on the types of bullets that are now in use.
    2. Hon
      Hon 1 December 2015 09: 23 New
      0
      Quote: cobalt
      Here it is the first automatic machine operating under the 6.5 mm cartridge that was actually used in combat

      Typical features of the machine are: the use of an intermediate cartridge, Fedorov’s assault rifle, uses rifle cartridges and does not quite fit the definition of an assault rifle. The designer himself initially called his weapon “a submachine gun,” and it was adopted as the “2,5-line Fedorov rifle." In concept, Fedorov’s product is closer to Browning (M1918) rather than to machine guns.
      1. jogin
        jogin 1 December 2015 12: 34 New
        0
        Quote: Hon
        Fedorov assault rifle, uses rifle cartridges and does not quite fit the definition of an assault rifle.

        Fedorov’s product uses an intermediate cartridge with a capacity of 1960 J. The fact that this cartridge is somewhat longer and narrower than the 7,62x39 mm cartridge does not make it rifle at all.
        In addition, the Japanese Arisaka rifle with a barrel length of 800 mm, which used the same 6,5x51SR Arisaka cartridge with a charge of 2,15 g, also used an intermediate (NOT SCREW) cartridge. The energy of a bullet fired from this rifle is 2570 J or 1895 ft-lb (foot pounds). While FROM THE MIDDLE OF THE PAST CENTURY rifle cartridges are considered, bullet energy which is more than 2000 ft-lb.
        Yes, at the time of Fedorov and Arisak (and there were also very obese Carcano) there were no intermediate cartridges, and anything more powerful than 1000 ft-lb was called a "rifle cartridge". But in 65 years one could already get used to the new terminology. Moreover, the Japanese Arisaka rifle, from a modern point of view, is not quite a real rifle.
      2. bunta
        bunta 1 December 2015 18: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: Hon
        "Submachine gun carbine"

        Shotgun-machine gun. And the term "machine gun" was given by General Filatov to Fedorov's machine gun. Although the AF used a 2,6KJ Arisakov cartridge, the AF produced 2KJ - a power comparable to the AK-47. This allowed automatic fire without bipods.
        1. jogin
          jogin 1 December 2015 18: 57 New
          0
          Quote: bunta
          AF issued 2KJ - power comparable to the AK-47. This allowed automatic fire without bipod.

          It is difficult to judge how accurately the product of Fedorov was able to fire automatically. The strength of its recoil is 3% more than the recoil of the AK-47. And the latter, due to the imbalance of the design, already knows that the second bullet with automatic fire flies where God knows. I don’t think that Fedorov’s balance of weapons was better. Most likely, even worse, and this is with even greater returns.
          More or less accurate automatic fire can only be fired from the AK-74. For this, the return had to be reduced as much as 40% !!!!!!! By the way, hence the deadness of his patron.
          So the AK-47, and I'm sure Fedorov’s product, too, have a right to exist only in the bipod version. Otherwise, questions arise about the advisability of automatic fire.
    3. jogin
      jogin 1 December 2015 12: 06 New
      0
      Quote: cobalt
      he is the first active and actually used in hostilities automatic machine chambered for 6.5 mm

      The first real operating machine gun (automatic weapon) was called the Maxim machine gun.
      If you use the term "automatic" as the Soviet designation for an assault rifle, then alas. The automatic rifle (the terminology of the author) Fedorov was an assault rifle only on a formal basis. Those. the cartridge was the capacity of the intermediate cartridge. Fyodorov's product had nothing more to do with assault rifles (machine guns). And in terms of efficiency, it was at all a carbine-machine gun, and not very good. A junior gun on a senior cartridge by any measure means design failure. What we finally saw.
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 1 December 2015 14: 47 New
        0
        Why not try it? I'm not talking about a complete re-equipment, but at least as an experimental design assignment for weapons bureaus. Let them make several options for trial, work out the technology, and identify shortcomings. So that it does not have to be implemented at an urgent pace in pursuit of the West. Unfortunately, in terms of ammunition types, we are far behind "our partners" request
        Run-in at special forces. Not so big amounts. In the end, they can also be produced on a commercial basis for sale abroad.
        Here's a quick excerpt on Grendel:
        The 6.5 mm Grendel cartridge (6.5 × 39 mm) is an intermediate low-pulse central-ignition cartridge. Currently, this ammunition is purely commercial. Manufactured by Alexander Arms and Lapua. Weapons for it are made by several private arms companies.

        Infa slipped that several AK-12 assault rifles were also manufactured under this cartridge.
        1. jogin
          jogin 1 December 2015 15: 18 New
          0
          Quote: Ka-52
          Why not give it a try? I'm not talking about a complete re-equipment, but at least as an experimental design assignment for weapons bureaus. Let them make several options for testing, work out the technology, and identify shortcomings.

          So everything is already tested. About 10 years ago. What else to try?
          Quote: Ka-52
          In order not to have to introduce at an emergency pace in pursuit of the West.

          In this case, do not have to. There is nothing to introduce.
          Yes, and the West must be chased wisely. Once already "rushed ahead of the horse", adopted a cartridge 7,62x39 mm and weapons on it. Such "haste" of the USSR cost a lot as a result. And there was a lot of laughter in the world.
          Quote: Ka-52
          Unfortunately, in terms of ammunition types, we are far behind "our partners"

          Not very much. Only the 5,45x39 mm cartridge is a bit weak. Unfortunately, he is the main one. And so, the new Para pistol cartridge and the old rifle cartridge are quite normal. I would also have adopted a 7,62x47-49 mm cartridge with a bullet energy of 2600-2900 J. It is necessary to replace the defective 7,62x39 mm with something. And that's all, nothing more is needed.
          Quote: Ka-52
          Run-in at special forces.

          What for? Ergonomics can be done without it. And ballistics is calculated elsewhere.
          Quote: Ka-52
          In the end, they can also be produced on a commercial basis for sale abroad.

          Does it lie? High cost at a low selling price. May not pay off.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  4. The Sparkle
    The Sparkle 1 December 2015 08: 02 New
    +2
    Here in the text only I see an error? Is the weight of the bullets correct?
    "(p.) The ammunition specialist continued further:
    “It passes through the air more evenly and,
    therefore, better holds his
    trajectory. She is also not so
    slows down in the air and with its more
    heavy bullet (120 grams compared to 62
    grams in a 5,56 mm bullet) retains
    kinetic energy at significantly
    longer distances compared to bullets
    calibres 5,56 mm and 7,62 mm ... "
    1. Blitz
      Blitz 1 December 2015 09: 41 New
      +1
      I agree. Something with a mass of bullets messed up. If you consider that the bullet weighs 120 grams, and 30 rounds in the horn, then the weight of the horn will be 4 kg. I would not want to run with such a machine.
    2. Izotovp
      Izotovp 1 December 2015 11: 37 New
      +1
      Inattention when translating: most likely not grams, but grains.
      1. jogin
        jogin 1 December 2015 12: 42 New
        +1
        Quote: Izotovp
        most likely not grams, but grains.

        They are the bullet SS109 weighs 62 grains or 4,02 grams.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    3. castle
      castle 1 December 2015 12: 56 New
      +1
      And I'm with my fly in the ointment.
      I quote the author of the article: "In addition, during this conflict, 40-mm automatic grenade launchers entered service with squads and crews in large quantities."
      Maybe I didn’t understand what? Which grenade launcher is automatic? What company produces?
      1. the47th
        the47th 1 December 2015 13: 13 New
        +1
        M301 semi-automatic three-shot grenade launcher. Created in 2535 to replace the obsolete M319 grenade launcher.
  5. IS-80
    IS-80 1 December 2015 08: 43 New
    0
    Interesting Alex Alexeev is a pseudonym for Dave Majumdar?
    1. gladcu2
      gladcu2 1 December 2015 16: 03 New
      0
      Is-80

      This article is too professional and worth a lot of attention. The experience gathered in the article was obtained in the same area of ​​the use of civilian weapons. It is unique, as well as for general and special education.

      Comparing with a turkey is not correct even as a joke.
      1. IS-80
        IS-80 1 December 2015 16: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: gladcu2
        This article is too professional and worth a lot of attention. The experience gathered in the article was obtained in the same area of ​​the use of civilian weapons. It is unique, as well as for general and special education.

        Comparing with a turkey is not correct even as a joke.

        This article is too superficial. Just in the style of Majumdar.
  6. erased
    erased 1 December 2015 09: 37 New
    0
    What is clear in the West. work is going on there, not always structural, but still. But how about us? There are new types of cartridges in calibres 5,45 and 7,62. But other calibers are not considered. Justified or because of an economic nature?
    1. jogin
      jogin 1 December 2015 12: 39 New
      0
      Quote: erased
      Justified or because of an economic nature?

      Justified.
      Each type of bullet has its own optimal caliber. They will come up with something third, it is quite possible there will be a third caliber.
  7. Noisy
    Noisy 1 December 2015 09: 42 New
    0
    Another translation of a foreign article by a person far from reality? Do not waste time people, move on.
  8. Vladimir
    Vladimir 1 December 2015 10: 44 New
    0
    Quote: Noisy
    Expansive ammunition is used in hunting and police weapons,


    I think that soon the question of controlled expansiveness will also arise for army munitions, and humanity will recede into the background.
  9. the47th
    the47th 1 December 2015 11: 26 New
    +1
    I’ll show you a scary video about the difference between 5,45x39 mm and 5,56x45 mm. The 5,45 mm bullets shown in the video, by the way, are gradually being replaced by armor-piercing ones, because modern protesters do not penetrate.
  10. Jackking
    Jackking 1 December 2015 12: 29 New
    +2
    Not a text, but a bunch of small ... It turned out that 7,62 bullet weight as much as 120 grams! And the gun works, no less, on the principle of using recoil with a short barrel stroke - that’s how it is, Mikhalych! This is apparently the greatest revolution in the design of weapons.
    And with a caliber of 6,5 - it was just that initially SGA did not have an intermediate of 7,62, like ours - 7,62x39 (their caliber of 7,62x51 is almost equal to our rifle 7,62x54R)
    1. the47th
      the47th 1 December 2015 12: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: Jackking
      7,62 bullet weight as much as 120 grams

      A small mistake, not a gram, but a gran, 120 gran - this is about 7,7 grams.
      Quote: Jackking
      And the gun works, no less, on the principle of using recoil with a short barrel stroke - that’s how it is, Mikhalych!

      And then what is it? The FNX-45 does work.
    2. gladcu2
      gladcu2 1 December 2015 16: 17 New
      +1
      Jackking

      The translator did a very good job. I read a bunch of material, links provided. In his opinion, he selected important aspects and put out good work for general display. Errors within tolerance. If the weight of the bullet is not correct, this is not a reason to blame the author. It conveys a general concept.

      The article has 3 reasons that make you pay attention to it.

      First one. A good overview of the different opinions of weapon users.

      The second one. Scientific cognitive.

      Three. This is the stage of learning.
  11. jogin
    jogin 1 December 2015 13: 36 New
    -1
    The military, along with industry, are also making great efforts to develop 6,5 mm ammunition for assault rifles.

    Something I do not recall such efforts is all 5,56 mm completely satisfied.
    Other cartridges, such as .260 Remington and 6.5 Grendel, are also actively promoting as a replacement. The latter is an optimal compromise in combining ballistic qualities, striking effects, recoil momentum and dimensions and ammunition mass, which occupies a niche between the NATO ammunition 7.62x51 and 5.56x45 NATO.

    From the point of view of a person who understands ballistics, this is a very funny anecdote. And about the "promising Hryundel" I have heard for more than the first decade (the second, to be more precise). From amateurs. And nothing has changed.
    Based on the extensive practice of using a 6,5 mm caliber in civilian long-range shooting competitions

    Amateurs do not know how hunting weapons (and army weapons are a type of hunting weapons; for game of certain sizes) are different from sports ones. The main difference is that a sports weapon bullet does not do any work after hitting a target. She doesn’t need it. A bullet of hunting weapons must effectively do a certain job. For each type of bullet worked out optimal calibers. This is 7.62 mm (approximately, a slight +/- is possible) and 5,5 mm (also approximately). Therefore, 6,5 mm is completely unsuitable for army weapons. Which does not exclude the possibility that a small amount of weapons for special operations in such a caliber can be fired.
    This means that the AK-47 will no longer be able to surpass it at a distance of over 300 meters. "

    Bullshit, of course. The latest Barrett REC7 Gen II in a caliber of 6,8 mm at a distance of over 300 mm is exactly as ineffective as the AK-47. Is it worth it then to change the flea, but for a lot of money? And then, what is this crafty comparison with the ancient AK-47? There is also an AK-74. And especially M16A2's. In comparison, Barrett has nothing to boast of.
    which is able to deliver more kinetic energy from shorter trunks

    Oh, crafty author. Maybe he will then explain why this is needed? It's funny. The energy should not be "as much as possible." Energy should be "as much as needed." For bullets of different types and calibers, this figure is different. And just in the 6,5mm caliber, it is very difficult to deliver the optimal amount of energy.
    what is the best solution is a combination of a 406 mm barrel and a 6,5 mm bullet with an expansive tip

    And then the international tribunal and the gallows. For the tip.
    An intermediate cartridge (type of cartridge for a firearm, intermediate in power between a rifle and a pistol cartridge) with characteristics similar to the characteristics of the cartridge 6.5 Grendel is considered as a candidate.

    I repeat, they are considering the second decade. All will not be considered. Because there is nothing to consider.
    This garbage is all the hype about the 6,5 mm caliber. For two types of modern bullets, it is unpromising. It can be used if they come up with some third type. Or, if they spit on the convention and adopt expansive bullets. But then it will be a complete finish.
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 1 December 2015 15: 14 New
      +1
      if they spit on the convention and adopt expansive bullets.

      In my opinion, if need is forced, no one will look at this convention.
      Conventions prohibit the use of cluster munitions and mines, but Americans have never bothered with this. Conventions prohibit the use of incendiary ammunition such as phosphorus, termite mix or napalm, all of which were used during conflicts in Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan. And this is not to mention the depleted uranium shells that are not prohibited and are actively used, and much more harm is done.
      1. jogin
        jogin 1 December 2015 15: 22 New
        0
        Quote: Ka-52
        however, the Americans never bothered with this

        Didn't bother. But not all are "US". Hussein's "not the USA" was hanged for lesser sins. And for the expansive bullets, they would have hung up directly 2 times in a row. On 2 ropes.
        1. the47th
          the47th 1 December 2015 15: 56 New
          0
          Expansive bullets will be used to "democratize" third world countries, so the fighting can be called a "police operation" or ATO (after all, the "great Ukrainians" used incendiary phosphorus munitions and nothing, the international community does not care). Expansive bullets will be useless against a modern army equipped with "Warriors", because the bulletproof vest will not penetrate.
          1. jogin
            jogin 1 December 2015 16: 22 New
            0
            Quote: the47th
            Expansive bullets will be useless against a modern army equipped with "Warriors", because the bulletproof vest will not penetrate.

            Do not need. Limbs for such a bullet are enough.
            1. gladcu2
              gladcu2 1 December 2015 16: 24 New
              0
              jogin

              Great comments on the topic.
            2. the47th
              the47th 1 December 2015 17: 45 New
              0
              Do you think that someone will heal limbs in the heat of battle? No. Even snipers do not aim. While the soldier will be aiming his arm or leg, he is at this time stuffed with armor-piercing offhand. And statistically there are much fewer hits in the limbs than in the body.
              1. jogin
                jogin 1 December 2015 17: 53 New
                -1
                Quote: the47th
                Do you think that someone will heal limbs in the heat of battle?

                Of course no. But the weapon is automatic. Therefore, getting into a limb is not at all difficult. Especially if they will seek to get there. Knowing in advance that the enclosure is useless.
                1. the47th
                  the47th 1 December 2015 18: 43 New
                  0
                  I wonder how to strive to get into a limb, say, three hundred meters, when the front sight (or holographic mark) covers half the target? The soldiers will aim at the center of the target, there can be no talk of any desire. The probability of hitting a target will greatly decrease if part of the bullets that hit it has no effect. Ammunition consumption will increase many times.
                  1. jogin
                    jogin 1 December 2015 19: 00 New
                    -1
                    Quote: the47th
                    Ammunition consumption will increase many times.

                    Quote: the47th
                    The soldiers will aim at the center of the target,

                    Will increase.
                    He will be able to pose as a sower. Aiming approximately at the center of the target.
                    1. the47th
                      the47th 1 December 2015 19: 41 New
                      -1
                      Quote: jogin
                      He will be able to pose as a sower. Aiming approximately at the center of the target.

                      This does not change the essence. It is foolish to use ammunition that will not hit the target with a probability close to 1 when it hits the enemy. It’s the same as shooting at a BMP from a machine gun - it’s almost impossible to break through armor anyway. Against unprotected parts of the body, only fragmentation grenades and shots will work well.
                      1. jogin
                        jogin 1 December 2015 19: 47 New
                        -1
                        Quote: the47th
                        It is foolish to use ammunition that will not hit the target with a probability close to 1 when it hits the enemy.

                        It will hit with such a probability. In contact with limbs. I repeat once again, getting from an automatic weapon into a limb is quite simple. With a slightly increased ammunition consumption.
                        Quote: the47th
                        Against unprotected parts of the body, only fragmentation grenades and shots will work well.

                        I don’t think only they.
                      2. the47th
                        the47th 1 December 2015 20: 22 New
                        -1
                        Quote: jogin
                        It will hit with such a probability. In contact with limbs. I repeat once again, getting from an automatic weapon into a limb is quite simple.

                        Not getting into a limb from an automatic weapon is also simple. Suppose that there are half hits in the limbs. It turns out the probability of defeat when hit on the target is less than 0,5. A hit with an armor-piercing cartridge in the limb and in the body will hit the target. That is, the probability of hitting the target with armor piercing is twice as high. Increased ammunition consumption also increases the time for hitting a target.
                        As a result, when using armor-piercing bullets, manpower will be affected faster. Combat rate with AK-74 bursts is 100 rounds per minute, let the hits be 1% of the number of rounds. When using armor-piercing cartridges, we get about 1 hit target per minute. When using expansive ammunition, we get 1 target defeat in 2 minutes.
                      3. jogin
                        jogin 1 December 2015 20: 38 New
                        -1
                        Quote: the47th
                        A hit with an armor-piercing cartridge in the limb and in the body will hit the target.

                        You forget about the different effectiveness of the lesion.
                      4. the47th
                        the47th 1 December 2015 21: 00 New
                        +1
                        Efficiency in battle will be about the same. With a high probability, the soldier will not be able to fight. If an expansive bullet hits, the soldier is likely to die from heavy bleeding or shock, but when hit by an armor-piercing bullet - no. The probability of an instant return to battle after a successful dressing and anesthesia will not be very different. The big difference will be in the likelihood of a successful cure and the cost of the cure.
  • gladcu2
    gladcu2 1 December 2015 16: 23 New
    0
    Ka-52

    For violations of these conventions are not taken prisoner.
    If in a store they find these cartridges from a wounded enemy, then pity will turn into ruthlessness. Therefore, not all of them will want to carry with them
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 2 December 2015 22: 04 New
      -1
      Quote: gladcu2

      For violations of these conventions are not taken prisoner.
      If in a store they find these cartridges from a wounded enemy, then pity will turn into ruthlessness. Therefore, not all of them will want to carry with them


      What kind of nonsense? Belligerents either adhere to conventions (the Anglo-Argentine conflict, for example), or not.
      If everything is according to the rules on both sides, then no one will do anything to the prisoner, all his rights are guaranteed, and no type of bullet will affect it.
      If they are at war with some non-humans, which it’s even better not to get to them in a dead form (IS, Wahhabis, UkroNatsiki) - then all the more they will not give a damn what bullets you have in the store, they will torture you anyway, painfully kill you, and then mock them over the corpse.
  • would
    would 2 December 2015 14: 48 New
    +1
    Conventions prohibit the use of cluster munitions and mines,


    No, they don't. And by the way, it is not prohibited to use phosphorus weapons either, it is only limited to the level of "use against combatants where there are no civilians and only against combatants" and these restrictions apply to all incendiary weapons in principle. Cluster shells in my memory are somehow not specifically limited. Definitely there voluntary Convention on the rejection of cluster munitions, but the main players in the world (including Russia) did not accept it, much less ratified it.
  • Denimax
    Denimax 1 December 2015 16: 14 New
    0
    I thought that in the future the caliber would still decrease, the core would be from heavier tungsten and the bullet would be dispersed to 1500 m / s.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 1 December 2015 17: 39 New
    +4
    "when the soldiers responding to the fire of the rebels firing AK-47
    from a distance of 600 meters, at the same time felt "insufficiently armed". "////

    What kind of shootings at 600 m from personal weapons? Stop wasting ammo
    and let your machine gunner work - push the Taliban to the ground.
    And let the mid-range sniper practice - this is his distance.
    1. Massik
      Massik 1 December 2015 17: 45 New
      +1
      Well, maybe the rebels are a little smarter and with AK dragged Dasha on a tripod?)
  • jogin
    jogin 1 December 2015 18: 24 New
    -1
    Option Colt M4A1 carbine received a barrel length of 368 mm and entered service with the US Armed Forces in 1994.
    At distances greater than 300 meters, the 368-mm barrel did not have enough length to disperse the M5,56 855-mm bullet to the desired speed and is guaranteed to disable the target. As a result, there were very often reports from Afghanistan and from other theaters of war, when the soldiers, responding to insurgent fire, firing AK-47 machine guns from a distance of 600 meters, felt at the same time “insufficiently armed”.

    Not too lazy and counted ballistics. In terms of effective range, the Colt M4A1 is approximately equivalent to the Colt M16A1 and RPK-74 (slightly more than 400 m). Those. AK-47 (a little more than 300 m) before it, like cancer before (everyone can choose a city on their own). Well, the fact that fear has big eyes is not a secret.
    NATO forces have long criticized the 5,56 mm cartridge for its insufficient power and lethal force, which could incapacitate targets for a long time, and even better forever. During the Cold War, the “humane” 5,56-mm bullet was intended not only to temporarily withdraw the target from the battle, but also to those military personnel who were forced to provide medical care.

    Humane SS109? Who wrote this article? In combination with the M16A2-x, this is the most destructive individual weapon on the planet.
    that soldiers need sufficient stopping power to guarantee the destruction of enemy soldiers.

    Much more than the M16A4?
    That is why, in the initial period of these campaigns, many units sometimes got various weapons in various ways and carried out their operations, armed with 7,62 mm assault rifles and sniper rifles, rather than 5,56 mm assault rifles.

    So fools are everywhere. They still would have carried it to themselves. For reliability.
    With these new bullets, the lead core sits freely on the copper core, the edges of which are unbent when they hit the target and release the lead core.

    With such cartridges in the horn, soldiers are categorically contraindicated in captivity. Death will not be long and will be received with great joy.
    Phil Collet, the head of weapons programs in the New Zealand Defense Forces, said that conventional infantry units clearly felt the superiority of the 7,62 mm AK-47 assault rifles of Taliban fighters.

    I feel sorry for the New Zealanders if such a Phil exists at such a post. And if he said that.
    However, he clarified that there are also advantages when working with 5,56 mm ammunition, especially when conducting urban operations. "In densely populated areas, you should always think about the civilian population ... With at least a 5,56 mm cartridge, you know that it will not go through the target, unlike other larger calibers."

    And what about the civilian population? Missing the bullet right through suggests just that the defeat was of high quality. And all the energy of the bullet is transferred to the victim. A wound right through, it's a marriage. Part of the energy of the bullet went with her.
    Something is some strange article. And the conclusions are somehow strange. And the arguments.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 2 December 2015 01: 04 New
    +2
    Why are they talking about a new caliber again? Or the experience of the wars and conflicts that have taken place has shown that the 5.45 and 5.56 calibers are "lightweight"? Or is there a "stagnation" in the arms companies, and you want to get a new order to re-equip armies with a new caliber? And this is tens of millions of barrels, billions of cartridges, secured loading of factories for tens of years. No one has canceled capitalism, and the defense order - a guaranteed multi-year contract - is such a tasty slice that to obtain it, you can carry out any research you like, and catch up with science to a previously known result.
    Alas, modern science has become corrupt, and really reliable data on the basis of which decisions can be made on the re-equipment of the army with small arms. Yes, research is necessary. It is necessary to attract specialists from units, to give them try new weapons for new calibers. There is no mistake in this extremely expensive matter.
    1. would
      would 2 December 2015 14: 55 New
      +1
      Or the experience of the wars and conflicts that have taken place has shown that the 5.45 and 5.56 calibers are "lightweight"?


      In my opinion, any caliber that does not instantly annihilate the target is "lightweight" for the military. Only now the weight, recoil, dimensions, cost (not only of such cartridges but also of weapons for them) are those limiters that do not allow the massive use of such cartridges. So IMHO the song about "too weak patron" will be eternal ...
  • Major_Vortex
    Major_Vortex 2 December 2015 03: 06 New
    +1
    Based on the extensive practice of using the 6,5 mm caliber in civilian long-distance shooting competitions, it was recognized that the ballistic coefficient (an indicator of an object’s ability to overcome aerodynamic drag in flight) is significantly higher than that of 5,56-mm or 7,62-mm ammunition. The ammunition specialist continued further: “It passes through the air more smoothly and, therefore, better keeps its trajectory. In addition, it is not so slow in the air and with its heavier bullet (120 grams compared to 62 grams for 5,56-mm bullets) retains kinetic energy at much greater distances compared to bullets of 5,56 mm and 7,62 mm. This means that AK-47 will no longer be able to surpass it at a distance of more than 300 meters. ”

    The author incorrectly translated the units of the weight of bullets. In the source, the weight was indicated in American grains, and not in the grams we are used to. 1 Gran = 0.064799 Gram. 120 grams - that would be prohibitively much for a rifle bullet of a self-loading rifle of the usual dimensions and mass. For comparison, a bullet from a shell of a Soviet ShVAK air gun with a caliber of 20 mm weighs no more than 99 grams:
  • 3danimal
    3danimal 29 February 2016 20: 15 New
    0
    Increasing the caliber reduces the accuracy (efficiency) of firing bursts, due to the increased momentum.
  • 3danimal
    3danimal 2 March 2016 05: 03 New
    0
    It makes sense a reasonable reduction in caliber to 4-4.5mm with an increase in lateral load to 18 g / cm ^ 2 against 13-14 for a 5,45mm caliber. The mass of the bullet will be 2.2-2.5g.
    Advantages: improved ballistic coefficient (less energy loss), a smaller pulse will allow you to effectively shoot bursts at a greater distance, the specific energy of the bullet (j / mm ^ 2) will be higher - therefore, with the same core material, armor penetration will be higher.