NATO renewal: Russia instead of Turkey?

116
The inclusion of Turkey into NATO in 1952 was a short-sighted decision, says Sierra Rein, a journalist and doctor of science. In her opinion, the union of the West with Turkey is the same as the deal with the devil. There was no benefit to the alliance from Ankara, but there were plenty of problems: for example, in the 1970s, the alliance went through a crisis period due to Turkey’s invasion of Cyprus. And at the beginning of the XXI century, the Turks showed a clear inclination towards Islamism. So, shouldn't NATO replace Islamist and unpredictable Turkey with an open and understandable Russia?

NATO renewal: Russia instead of Turkey?


Sierra Rain It has Ph.D. in chemistry and regularly publishes articles on the environment, energy, and national security in the press.

Her new article was published in a magazine. "The American Thinker". Publicist is regular contributor to this edition.

When Turkey joined NATO in February 1952, its membership supporters argued that the country was needed by the West as an ally to prevent “Soviet expansion” in the region. But that was a deal with the devil.

Once there was anxiety about the likely "Soviet aggression," notes Rhine, and this "was understandable at the time." True, it is not clear to the extent to take and accept Turkey into NATO. At least in rational terms, this decision cannot be explained. The decision on Turkey’s membership in NATO “was short-sighted and unforgivable.” Ultimately, it gave the West more problems than it did before Ankara was admitted to the alliance.

For many years, Turkey has been a “difficult teenager” in NATO. The Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974 caused a real split in the alliance. Greece announced its withdrawal from NATO and returned there only in 1980 year.

In 2012, Syria was hit by a Turkish fighter, “completely deliberately flown into Syria’s airspace,” reminds the journalist. Later in the same year, Turkey launched artillery fire on government facilities in Syria in response to some "Syrian artillery strikes" into Turkey.

A political realist would most likely note that for decades Turkey has been using NATO membership to achieve its own political goals. And "such goals, which, as a rule, do not coincide with the interests of NATO."

Perhaps “NATO’s naivety towards Turkey” could have been forgiven in the 20th century, but later it was impossible not to notice another thing: at the beginning of the 2000s. Turkey began to "clearly signal its commitment to Islamism." If we recall the long and difficult history Turkey, it will become clear: Islamist ideas have always been there demanded. And the one who knew how to take off rose-colored glasses could see everything properly.

Islamists have always been far more terrible and obvious threat to civilization of the West than the Soviets, the author believes.

However, the West preferred to flirt with the Islamists. The latter were “useful idiots” throughout the Cold War and a quarter of a century after it.

The time has come to rectify the situation and take Russia as an ally against the Islamists, including the "Islamic state" and the aforementioned Turkey, the journalist said.

Putin’s Russia has been beating the drum for many years, warning of the Islamist threat. The West, however, seems to be incapable of listening to the Russians.

But here’s the reality: French President Francois Hollande is now asking the United States to leave its differences with Russia and finally begin to fight the terrorist army of the Islamic State with a broad and unified coalition.

As V.Putin correctly noted, the Rhine continues, Turkey is in alliance with the “IG” and is buying oil from terrorists, thereby supporting the “Islamic State”.

“A lot has changed in the last two years,” writes a journalist. - The approach to the former opponents should be reconsidered, since other old “allies” are not at all and have not been from the very beginning. Many in the West admire Putin, and for good reason. His geostrategic vision is clear, his strength is palpable, and he is successful in rebuilding the Russian economy. ” According to Rhine, the Russian society, in particular the military, objectively assess its achievements.

So, the time has come: Turkey should be “withdrawn from NATO”, and Russia should be invited into the alliance. The common interests of the West and Russia are “significantly higher” than the joint interests with the Islamic world, the Rhine sums up.

В "New York Times"Let us add to this, they are already openly writing that Turkey has substituted NATO.

The American edition reminds readers that Turkey, especially when reinforcing R. T. Erdogan’s authoritarian manners, was brutal at the so-called protection of airspace: in the past, the Turks shot down Syrian aircraft.

Now Ankara adheres to its former Islamist goal: Erdogan wants the Syrian President Assad to resign from power, and the Syrian-Turkish border would be an accessible "checkpoint" for Syrian militants, including Islamist terrorists.

Recall also that the emergency summit meeting of NATO, convened at the request of Turkey, did not develop a concrete solution. Secretary General Stoltenberg, who supported the Ankara accusations against Moscow with reference to the "allied information", nevertheless called on Moscow and Ankara to "diplomacy" and "de-escalation." Such a cautious statement indicates that there is no common understanding of the situation at the top of NATO, as well as among members of the alliance who are aware of the danger of a military confrontation with Russia. And if it’s too early to talk about a split in the ranks of NATO, then it’s about time for a rift. And Ankara is responsible for this crack. More precisely, the local “Sultan” is responsible.

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
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    116 comments
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    1. +8
      30 November 2015 06: 25
      No, you’re better off with us. Yes
      1. +48
        30 November 2015 06: 32
        Quote: Vladimirets
        No, it’s better you are to us

        Poles (1609), French (1812), Germans (1941) Better not!
        1. +18
          30 November 2015 07: 39
          We don’t need NATO .....
          1. +10
            30 November 2015 08: 49
            We don’t need NATO ...

            We do not need NATO, of course. But of two evils, they choose the lesser. Although I strongly doubt that even if, suppose we were accepted, we would not have been full members, and the states with England would constantly put pressure on the Russian Federation, and then they would still be kicked out, the Americans and others need an enemy, the enemy is not a real one. " theoretical "so that defense spending is to be credited to.
            1. 0
              1 December 2015 00: 01
              Quote: sergeybulkin
              Although I strongly doubt that even if, for example, we were to be accepted, we would not be full members


              Considering that NATO is actually "Anti USSR" (and then "AntiRF"), then yes.
              Not, there is still China and India, but it is unlikely.

              Well, given that all agreements with the West over the past 25 years are either unprofitable, or are carried out selectively by Western countries, then it is fucking.
              1. +1
                1 December 2015 02: 20
                Russia in NATO and under the West is the dream of Russian liberals (the school of Academician Likhachev, etc.) Gorbach and Eltsin openly went to this. Loss of sovereignty, fragmentation of the USSR - and then further on to Russia (because NATO and the West, like any predator, cannot "digest" prey without first tearing it apart)

                And further, the scenarios are also unambiguous, to use a torn, weakened, but "very democratized" Russia as a battering ram and a buffer against the MAIN COMPETITOR of the Western world and the FRS in the 21st century - CHINA (like now they use the Square against the obstinate RF)

                Read Gumilyov, Mack Kinder, etc. - this is geopolitics - and Russia in NATO is simply mortally dangerous.
                It was about alliances with European countries that the tsar said the very phrase that there are no allies except the army and navy. There are no allies in the west and will never be

                Russia (and Belarus, as a matter of fact part of Russia) clearly needs to integrate with us, with Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, another part of the great steppe (Tatars, Bashkirs and Altai) is part of Russia itself - thus a new Union will be reborn, in place of the Golden Horde, the tsarist Russia and the USSR.

                And be friends with China and Iran. And also to bring internal policy in line with external - from the outside everything seems to be correct - while inside while the liberals headed by Medvedev Dvorkovich Shuvalov, oligarchs, etc., are "rampaging"
        2. +14
          30 November 2015 07: 40
          So, the time has come: Turkey should be "withdrawn from NATO", and Russia should be invited to the alliance.

          They just want Russia to do the dirty work for them - it knows how well in Syria. Nothing personal just business. Although this Rhine gives the impression of sane logic with signs.
          The common interests of the West with Russia are “significantly higher” than common interests with the Islamic world, the Rhine summarizes.

          What about the Saudis? "The master has appointed me the main wife!"
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +19
            30 November 2015 07: 56
            Nevertheless, the EU decided to allocate Turkey’s money, and cancel visas

            It won’t reach where the terrorists come from.

            Not only Russians slowly harness

            And the fact that Russia will not come up with NATO in order to powder our brains with us.

            It looks like a carrot in front of a donkey.

            This suggests that they will look for any means to stop Russia.




            1. +11
              30 November 2015 08: 23
              We do not need to join NATO.
              We need NATO.
              In pieces.
              In the cold.
              am
              1. +5
                30 November 2015 08: 35
                NATO renewal: Russia instead of Turkey?
                -Friends, this is speculation, and empty delusion. And there are different points of view, in different countries. If Venediktov is "ashamed of Russia" in our country, it does not mean that our foreign policy will change. In the same way, Felgenhauer or El-Murid do not reflect the present state of affairs and trends in the foreign policy of the Russian Federation.
                1. +3
                  30 November 2015 08: 52
                  American Thinker (American thinker) -Internet publishing.
                  From the explanation of the position of the publication:
                  ... There are no restrictions on topics appearing on American Thinker. National security in all its dimensions - strategic, economic, diplomatic, military, is basic. The right to existence and survival of the state of Israel is of great importance to us. Business, science, technology, medicine, management, economics and in their practical and ethical aspects is also an important component of American culture ...
                  1. +2
                    30 November 2015 12: 08
                    Quote: mirag2
                    The right to existence and survival of the state of Israel is of great importance to us.

                    Well then, it’s clear where the ears grow from.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
            2. +4
              30 November 2015 11: 19
              Quote: bulvas
              Nevertheless, the EU decided to allocate Turkey’s money, and cancel visas

              nu-nu! But they did not take this into account ... history was taught poorly ... although so far there is unverified data, but "there is something in this."
              Turkey squeezes the ring around Syria, and with the support of the United States, dares to attack Russia. According to unverified data, which should be treated with caution, anonymous sources say - "Russia is going to terminate the Kars and Moscow Treaties, as a result of which Turkey may lose up to 30% of its territories."


              The Moscow Treaty (1921) is a Russian-Turkish treaty of "friendship and brotherhood", signed on March 16 and 1921 in Moscow between the government of the Turkish Grand National Assembly and the government of the RSFSR. In accordance with the agreement, the Armenian cities of Kars and Ardagan departed to Turkey. Mount Ararat also appeared in Turkey.

              According to the Treaty, Russia prolongs it every 25 years, and now the time is right for the next signing of the Treaty, which Russia may not legally do. In this case, Turkey will be forced to return vast territories.
              It is worth recalling that these lands in Turkey are still deserted after the Armenian Genocide 1853 -1923gg, since Turkey always considered the possibility of returning the territories occupied at the beginning of the century, and therefore there was no investment involved and there was no modern infrastructure.
              http://novorus.info/news/analytics/42947-putin-mozhet-lishit-turciyu-30-ee-terri
              toriy.html
              1. +1
                30 November 2015 12: 15
                Quote: Egoza
                According to the Treaty, Russia prolongs it every 25 years, and now the time is right for the next signing of the Treaty, which Russia may not legally do. In this case Turkey will be forced to return vast territories.



                Hmm ... To this I can only say, like you: "Nu-nu" ...

                Nobody will return anything, and there will be no war over this Kars and Mount Ararat ...
              2. +1
                30 November 2015 12: 26
                In accordance with the agreement, the Armenian cities of Kars and Ardagan departed to Turkey. Mount Ararat also appeared in Turkey.

                Armenian cities! And it was part of Armenia, it means Armenia could (theoretically) claim its rights to! Its former! territories, we need another hot zone near our borders, Armenia and look at NATO will be accepted together with Georgia ( laughing lol Georgia lol fellow ) The territory is more like a stone desert why do we need it ... recourse
                1. +4
                  30 November 2015 13: 18
                  There is an arbitration award of the Lygia of Nations (UN) on the Armenian-Turkish border, with the obligatory access of Armenia to the sea. The United States, Britain, France, and Russia signed this decision. The decision has no statute of limitations; it is binding. Naturally, everything depends on the powers.
              3. 0
                30 November 2015 12: 29
                Quote: Egoza
                Quote: bulvas

                Nevertheless, the EU decided to allocate money to Turkey, and visas - to abolish the nu-nu! But they did not take this into account ... history was taught poorly ... although so far there is unverified data, but "there is something in this."



                Dear Elena (Egoza), what is the connection with my study of history?
                As for visas and money from the EU, this is still a foreseeable future.



                1. +2
                  30 November 2015 12: 44
                  Quote: bulvas
                  what is the connection with my study of history?
                  As for visas and money from the EU, this is still a foreseeable future.

                  Firstly, to study history, I didn’t mean you, but those who were going to cancel the visa. And secondly, does it make sense to invest in a country and cancel visas if a pretty piece is chopped off from this country? and it is still unknown which neighbors will receive.
                  1. +3
                    30 November 2015 13: 12
                    Quote: Egoza
                    First, to study history, I had in mind those who were going to cancel their visas. And secondly, does it make sense to invest in a country and cancel visas if a pretty piece is chopped off from this country? and it is still unknown which neighbors will receive.



                    Agree

                    It is becoming increasingly difficult to believe that the EU has some sane plan to combat the influx of migrants

                    It would seem that help the Russian Federation cleanse Syria of bandits, invest these billions of euros in rebuilding the country, creating jobs - migration will stop and people will go back.

                    And so, invest in the creation of refugee camps?

                    The future hotbed of terrorism and new waves of migration in the EU?

                    A future black hole for pouring humanitarian aid there?

                    Who runs it all?

                  2. The comment was deleted.
              4. The comment was deleted.
              5. +1
                30 November 2015 13: 45
                Quote: Egoza
                In accordance with the agreement, the Armenian cities of Kars and Ardagan departed to Turkey. Mount Ararat also appeared in Turkey.

                According to the Treaty, Russia prolongs it every 25 years, and now the time is right for the next signing of the Treaty, which Russia may not legally do



                And what side is Russia to Armenian cities and territories? wink
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. The comment was deleted.
          5. The comment was deleted.
        3. 0
          30 November 2015 15: 44
          Poles (1610), French (1812), Germans (1914)
          exactly 102 years. Who is 2016?
          1. 0
            30 November 2015 21: 37
            Yes, not a good trend! History teaches us that it teaches nothing!
      2. +6
        30 November 2015 06: 34
        That's it.
        Better to us, to Kolyma hi
        1. 0
          30 November 2015 12: 17
          Quote: ImPerts
          Better to us, to Kolyma



          All the Turks, or what ??? They will eat, even the whole reindeer under the root will be taken out ...

          PS But actually - how many almost free builders (only for feeding) would be ... It was possible in Kolyma to build such an infrastructure ...
      3. +5
        30 November 2015 06: 41
        NATO renewal: Russia instead of Turkey?
        cognitive dissonance damn ... what
        1. +13
          30 November 2015 06: 44
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          cognitive dissonance damn ...

          Estimate, Ukraine joins NATO, and there .. op-pa! Already Russia. laughing
          1. +2
            30 November 2015 07: 41
            Quote: Vladimirets
            Estimate, Ukraine joins NATO, and there .. op-pa! Already Russia.


            To hobble with NATO is the same as not to wash your hands when leaving the toilet, because you still have to take a shower and brush your teeth, and even take your laundry ...
          2. +6
            30 November 2015 07: 49
            Quote: Vladimirets
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            cognitive dissonance damn ...

            Estimate, Ukraine joins NATO, and there .. op-pa! Already Russia. laughing



            A terrible, nightmare dream for Ukraine, let them sleep peacefully, this will never happen.
          3. +3
            30 November 2015 07: 59
            Quote: Vladimirets
            Estimate, Ukraine joins NATO, and there .. op-pa! Already Russia.

            Have you heard how fires are extinguished by oncoming fire? That is why Russia needs to join NATO! laughing The Baltic states and Eastern Europe will immediately run away from it, Ukraine will cease to ask there. And the United States will look at the meaninglessness of the organization and dissolve it themselves ...

            Of course, America may try to create some kind of duplicate organization, but this is like today's attempts to revive Soviet organizations (pioneers, Komsomol), stupidly crossing out the words "Soviet" and "socialism". The old ideology is not pleasant, but the new one is not invented, there is nothing to base it on. This is how the dead-born organizations of careerists turn out. So it would be with NATO's double ...
            1. +3
              30 November 2015 08: 40
              Oncoming fire here - strong blocs with our majority role, BRICS, CSTO, TC, etc., and not go under the NATO troops ruled on Wall Street ...
              1. 0
                1 December 2015 10: 00
                Quote: Lance
                Oncoming fire here - strong blocs with our majority role, BRICS, CSTO, TC, etc., and not go under the NATO troops ruled on Wall Street ...



                Something I did not hear the votes of the CSTO members in the situation with the downed plane ...
          4. +1
            30 November 2015 12: 18
            Quote: Vladimirets
            Estimate, Ukraine joins NATO, and there .. op-pa! Already Russia



            It’s better to pretend to fantasize that Ukraine will soon have no place to enter except for cow cakes ...
      4. +2
        30 November 2015 06: 45
        Quote: Vladimirets
        No, you’re better off with us.


        Dude and Volodin always +, write correctly. And as for Europe - where to go, to whom to surrender, that’s the whole philosophy ... There is a place beyond the Ural Stone - wilcomm. We will not break the ridge, but we will bend. If you can’t work, you will die out like a mammoth.
      5. 0
        30 November 2015 07: 01
        Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer!
      6. +2
        30 November 2015 07: 07
        Let the goat into the garden, and hire the wolf in the shepherds.
      7. 0
        30 November 2015 08: 14
        Joining the ranks is not necessary. But to create a certain system of closer interaction will be useful in today's difficult conditions. At least for the time of the destruction of daishas.
      8. +3
        30 November 2015 08: 42
        Oh yes this is nonsense, someone blurted out about Russia in NATO. Now, on the news, they showed how this Turkish Oglu attends a climate conference and feels more confident and needed than Putin, everyone around him curls like a hero, so it's time not to feed on the illusions that someone is looking in our peaceful direction, they are all terrorists, except some Slavic states.
        1. +1
          30 November 2015 12: 17
          I was a deputy, I will not name nationality, but from there, close, so to speak to .. mmm, to the Turks, a cross. So the one when he does it hard, the next day and the whole week an important one came in, in a white shirt and suit, with all of them independent, proud, smart speeches pushed and stupid, just to keep an eye on. When I was at work, without any scrutiny, I was chastising a little, affectionately, sweating like a horse, I fawned, his face was red, my eyes were running. But all this is one on one. The mentality seems to be like that. By the way, now this deputy is already delivering pies to the forwarding agent, he got sick.
      9. +2
        30 November 2015 13: 45
        Well, I do not!
        To hell they are not needed here!
        In general, discussing such articles is ridiculous. What is only this:
        Sierra Rhine holds a Ph.D. in chemistry
        .
        What is it like?
        It’s cleaner than a state-run cook.
        Why NATO Turkey, it is understandable, we need control over the Bosphorus and Dardanelles, and influence on the Islamic world. THAT they (NATO) indirectly and have this control.
        But it seems that this control is largely virtual, the Tureks will never want to completely lose their influence in the region.
        But Russia is not interested in NATO, do not meddle in us, and everything will be the status quo.
    2. 0
      30 November 2015 06: 27
      Such a cautious statement indicates that at the top of NATO, as well as members of the alliance, who are aware of the danger of a military confrontation with Russia, there is no common understanding of the situation.
      Thus, it becomes clear that NATO is not a monolithic structure and also has its weaknesses despite the fact that it has grown to the size of a fat pig.
      How with such fat on their belly they are going to fight with the wolves is not clear to me.
      1. +2
        30 November 2015 06: 54
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        Thus, it becomes clear that NATO is not a monolithic structure and also has its weaknesses despite the fact that it has grown to the size of a fat pig.

        Well, how can it be monolithic? She was never monolithic. NATO was created by the United States when Europe was weak after WWII and the United States simply took advantage of this moment, everywhere deployed its bases and troops there, and where did Europe go? So they are still suffering dictates, and dictates are becoming stronger and stronger, while Europeans are suffering and suffering, and they don’t see any clearance. Enlightenment for Europe will appear in Syria, now it is, it can be said, created there.
        1. 0
          30 November 2015 07: 51
          Quote: Tatar 174
          She was never monolithic.


          So the point is in the staffing and organizational structure :: the member states surrender their aircraft under the command of NATO, as it were, for rent, for disposal and use, but not for possession. And NATO can dispose of these troops (by the way, of variable composition for different operations and for different periods) ONLY in agreement with the member countries and if a member does not want to speak out against Russia, for example, then he will be forced to surrender his forces under NATO in operations against Russia no one can.
          This is the reason for the weakness of NATs.
          But there is no unanimity in the NATO General Council and never will be.
    3. +12
      30 November 2015 06: 27
      Regarding Cyprus ... Turkey continues to occupy Northern Cyprus..and sanctions .. for 40 years now no one has been declaring and no one is demanding the withdrawal of Turkish troops ...
    4. 0
      30 November 2015 06: 30
      There was no benefit to Ankara from the alliance, but there were enough problems

      The opinion of the doctor of philosophy is amusing, it is a pity that little is feasible for many reasons, although the idea is worth developing, perhaps in some other way.
    5. +6
      30 November 2015 06: 37
      Russia in nature and the Amer’s general in glavnyuk? Nothing beguiled, dreamers? fool
    6. 0
      30 November 2015 06: 42
      As long as there is Russia, NATO will indulge Turkey, well, maybe they will scold it in a whisper.
    7. +1
      30 November 2015 06: 42
      No NATO. We will not dance to the tune of those who have significant weight in this alliance.
    8. +8
      30 November 2015 06: 49
      NATO is an organization created against Russia, so no one will pay attention to such articles and attention!
      1. +4
        30 November 2015 07: 17
        Quote: Good cat
        NATO is an organization created against Russia,

        Right at the bull's eye, and an article in a series of dull attention, calculated on the fact that we will blur in tenderness. Once praised, then they are preparing some sort of dirty trick.
        But in fact, it is not necessary with such friends and enemies.
        I think that the easiest thing politically and militarily is the fight against Daesh. But the most difficult thing is to force the EU and the US to fight with their overgrown offspring, which will drive their parents under the table.
    9. +3
      30 November 2015 06: 54
      If Russia joins NATO (which is ridiculous in itself, an oxymoron, to put it mildly, turns out), then what will the States do there?
      1. +2
        30 November 2015 07: 52
        Quote: inkass_98
        If Russia joins NATO (which is ridiculous in itself, an oxymoron, to put it mildly, turns out), then what will the States do there?



        Here, and the United States into oblivion.
    10. 0
      30 November 2015 06: 57
      it would be interesting to look at proto-ukrov if Russia joins NATO + the EU :) Russia will never be in NATO, it is physically stupidly impossible, in NATO and Russia only 5.45 caliber is common :)
      1. +2
        30 November 2015 07: 14
        it would be interesting to look at proto-ukrov if Russia joins NATO + the EU :) Russia will never be in NATO, it is physically stupidly impossible, in NATO and Russia only 5.45 caliber is common :)

        Caliber NATO 5,56 x 45
    11. +1
      30 November 2015 06: 58
      Quote: sanya.vorodis
      "Yes, really ..." ©
      "... has a Ph.D. in CHEMISTRY ..." !!! belay wassat

      "COOKER !!!" ©

      Nothing funny, dragging. You are in vain to sneer. If you are not aware of the terminology of the Western education system, these are your problems. "Doctor of Philosophy" (Ph.D) on the Western table of ranks corresponds to the domestic "candidate of sciences". Please study: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Philosophy
    12. 0
      30 November 2015 07: 00
      Never Russia to be in NATO. This is nonsense!
      Neither do they need us, nor do we need them. Too different concepts and tasks for us, and NOTs.
      And to dream, S. Rain, is not forbidden, and therefore there is a good saying: Fools are rich in thoughts! laughing
    13. +1
      30 November 2015 07: 03
      In NATO, only when the United States leaves there)) or else sit at the same table with them ... fuuuu.
      And if, without jokes, the world follows the path of globalization at a steady pace, we all live on the same planet and dividing it into closed borders is a crime against humanity. wassat IMHO.

      I believe that sooner or later mankind will realize this ... and the borders will remain only on paper as in Europe, only this will be an all-planetary alliance. But unfortunately, an understanding of human nature gives me reason to think that we are more likely to kill each other and the planet and send it there, rather than unite.
    14. +1
      30 November 2015 07: 04
      People, what are you talking about? Remember why NATO was created !!!!!!!!!!!
    15. +1
      30 November 2015 07: 09
      In the New York Times, we add to this, they openly write that Turkey set up NATO.
      The New York Times writes a lot of things, but if anyone substitutes the same Turkey, the whole of Europe, it is the United States itself. Probably, one must be a very naive person, believing that Turkey could independently decide to attack a Russian Air Force aircraft. Just like François Hollande "independently", at one time, decided not to supply two helicopter carriers already paid for by Russia. The same can be said about Frau Merkel, who got involved in sanctions against Russia. The Americans need a regional war, and on the one hand, Bandera Dill is ideal for it, with our unsolved problems in the former Ukraine. This is Crimea, that Poroshenko vows to return, and whose departure to Russia is not recognized by the West, these are also problems in Donbass. All this can blaze. Secondly, this is Syria, where Russia intervened, after the obvious or depicted insolvency of the United States, it will cope with ISIS, which the United States created, and, in one way or another, is still being protected. We were in no hurry to help Assad in time; we complied with the requirements for sanctions, without supplying the much-needed weapons. When it came almost to the point, the militants had already reached the Damascus areas, we, in fact, responded to the US arguments that the fight against ISIS is a common cause, that a coalition is needed, and got involved in the war. The brazen provocation of Turkey, the eternal historical enemy of Russia, has brought the situation to the brink of war. However, it is not necessary to exclude the Turks from NATO, it is enough for Turkey to find a reason to consider Russia an aggressor, just to see a threat to its security. Everything, it will be possible to put on the obscure convention on the straits, and to restrict the passage of our ships, our grouping in Syria will be cut off from the Black Sea, as well as the Black Sea Fleet will be blocked. If Turkey is excluded from NATO altogether, this can be considered a direct incitement to a conflict with Russia. Poroshenko and Erdogan, two problems, which are not at all ridiculous, given that Ukrupia is actively being prepared for war, and the Turkish fleet does not look weak at all, like the Turkish army. There is no reason for optimism that the Turks will be trampled on from NATO, as well as the story, who invite us to NATO (the WTO is enough here to understand that this is no better than an open war, there will be quiet disarmament and destruction of Russia's independence).
      1. +2
        30 November 2015 09: 07
        The straits are straits, and it was necessary to blurt out someone, and ... now all and sundry "experts" have worked it out! The Turkish army may not be ridiculous, but Porosenkov's army ... yes, I beg you .. laughing ! Remember 08.08.08 five days ... but the Georgian army was not even the current dill, all the weapons are brand new, L / C full set, fully instructed by amers, and .... and five days .. soldier ! Skethe Ossetians also played a significant role, and Donbass will do no less, if not more, so with a direct order to capture Cueva-Kukueva, and a maximum of a week or two .. as all of Ukraine will become part of Russia and the people of Ukraine may breathe a sigh of relief ! Well, of course, Turkey will have to tinker with it, and it’s purely because of the Air Force and Navy, but the Navy can be lowered right from the Crimea, the ground forces are not so strong! And do not forget the Turkish military did not forget the Erdogash’s poddyanki, not the fact that a stupid coup will not happen, no one else has rotted the Turkish military like Erdogan! Generals can do a lot in BV, and betray and overthrow, and this is not uncommon !!! But to be honest, it seems like they give me a gray cardinal in Turkey !!!
        1. 0
          30 November 2015 13: 45
          Quote: igorka357
          The Turkish army may not be ridiculous, but the Poroshenko army ... yes, I beg you ..
          And you remember how the Hitlerite Wehrmacht began, how the Germans rolled plywood tanks, it was funny to many then in the same France, which in 1940 was crushed by not Guderian's plywood tanks at all. Hitler would never have come to power, and even more so he would not have gained strength, if it had not been allowed to him by those who needed the antipode of communism, the antipode of the Soviet Union. Now from Dill, babbling is more terrible, wanting to make anti-Russians out of Russians, from Dill the antipode of Russia. What is now happening near the borders of Crimea and in the Donbass does not clearly indicate a stabilization of the situation, and does not inspire optimism for a quiet life. The Turks do not have to get involved in a war with Russia; it is enough for them to help some "moderate opposition". Our bourgeois themselves are not in a hurry to break ends with Tucy, building nuclear power plants at their own expense for the Turks, about 3 billion have already been invested, and in the calculation 20. Speak about the "gray cardinals", because the United States has all of Europe a puppet. And in vain you are comparing the Georgian army with the Ukrop army, the potential is different, all the more, the army of the former Ukraine can be made in such a way, where everything will be even newer than the Georgians had. With the straits, everything is far from so simple, you shouldn't be talking about "experts". Actually, Turkey was not to a small extent also taken into NATO because of the straits at one time. If the situation aggravates, and even more so the threat of Turkey itself, even within the framework of the convention, Turkey can close the straits for warships of other countries (in our case, for Russia). If we took threats more seriously, did everything in a timely manner, there would now be no problems either with Ukraine or in Syria.
    16. +2
      30 November 2015 07: 10
      Many banners and coats of arms in the "old world" are decorated with the severed head of a Turk. It's time to return to this tradition and for the company and the heads of the most zealous NATO members to add ...
    17. +2
      30 November 2015 07: 13
      Correctly! To join NATO, excluding Turkey and the United States from there, with the goal of the alliance to proclaim a confrontation with America, as the main accomplice of terrorism.
    18. +2
      30 November 2015 07: 14
      yes no, we’ll somehow live without NATO, and it’s not very bad
    19. +2
      30 November 2015 07: 15
      Ukrainians, of course, dream of stealing all the NATO capters and warehouses, because they sleep and see themselves in this alliance. And why do we need this very NATO. Let self-dissolve and deal with the end.
    20. +1
      30 November 2015 07: 19
      The author writes - "Islamists have always been a much more terrible and obvious threat to civilization in the West" - but what about tolerance ?? belay
    21. +1
      30 November 2015 07: 19
      Western alliance with Turkey is the same as a deal with the devil

      Then, according to the laws of the genre, the time should come when the Evil One demands the fulfillment of another part of the contract. But I would better call Turkey’s entry into NATO a deal to the detriment of common sense, but with an eye to use against Russia for many years. Which was observed from 1952 to the present.
    22. +2
      30 November 2015 07: 21
      Quote: Vladimirets
      No, you’re better off with us. Yes

      Only if Russia becomes the leader of NATO.
    23. +2
      30 November 2015 07: 30
      Breyadtina. With the same success, it would be possible for the USSR to side with Hitler Germany. Join the ranks of the Reich. This is called a drain, a loss. Absurd!
      1. Riv
        0
        30 November 2015 07: 35
        What scares you? That pizza in Manhattan would cost eight Reichsmarks, or that London would be renamed Zhukovo?
    24. +2
      30 November 2015 07: 32
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      cognitive dissonance damn ...

      Estimate, Ukraine joins NATO, and there .. op-pa! Already Russia. laughing

      Ahiret !!!!!!!! laughing
    25. +1
      30 November 2015 07: 36
      The old bike, if Russia goes into NATO, then according to Copenhagen itself .. And hypothetically, Russia can become a NATO member only as a result of a change in the political course of the leadership to a pro-Western one, with complete surrender of independence (remember the damned Yeltsin), according to the looming version of Montenegro.
    26. +2
      30 November 2015 07: 38
      I hope Russia will not be offered this, and if they do, it will be a refusal.
      Otherwise, again they will simply crush us with the majority.
      Russia itself creates blocks (BRICS, SCO) and it decides with whom.
    27. Riv
      +1
      30 November 2015 07: 42
      Is Russia in NATO? But what about the hegemony of the States? Now the alliance is managed, in fact, from one headquarters - and so is strong. All kinds of Estonia, Poland and other shells do not solve anything and do not change anything. But accepting Russia there means, firstly: separation of command, and secondly: the impossibility of further expansion of the alliance, because Russia will block such attempts in the future. Goodbye, Georgian dreams ...
      One more nuance: does Russia need it? Today you can troll Erdogan S-400 without consequences, but in NATO he will be "our son of a bitch." The game may not be worth the candle.
    28. +2
      30 November 2015 07: 45
      "Ankara was no use to the alliance ..."
      Well, of course, the geostrategic location, control of the straits, a powerful fleet in the Black and Mediterranean Seas, about 70 different military facilities are located on its territory, including several large bases. For example, Incirlik Air Force Base, the easternmost base of the United States Air Force Command in Europe. The "Cuban Missile Crisis" was preceded by the deployment of medium-range Jupiter missiles in Turkey in 1961 by the United States, which directly threatened cities in the western part of the Soviet Union, reaching Moscow and major industrial centers.
      So the alliance from Ankara was and is useful. hi
    29. +5
      30 November 2015 08: 00
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      NATO renewal: Russia instead of Turkey?
      cognitive dissonance damn ... what

      No, Yurich, this is the view of the chemist-philosopher: Sierra Rhine holds a Ph.D. in chemistry I’m even afraid to imagine how a pizza delivery man with the degree of doctor of ichthyology would express himself on a subject ...
    30. Fox
      +1
      30 November 2015 08: 04
      article plus ... and it would be better for a woman to do chemistry. well, not that.
    31. +2
      30 November 2015 08: 07
      Invite a bear to a dog pack created to hunt a bear.
    32. +1
      30 November 2015 08: 24
      Is Russia in NATO? No, solve your own problems yourself. And we will help if we need to.
    33. +1
      30 November 2015 08: 31
      NATO will lose its meaning when Russia enters it. Since Russia and NATO, led by the United States, are two centers of power, opposite pluses. Russian entry is impossible.
    34. +2
      30 November 2015 08: 50
      Sierra Rein has a Ph.D. in chemistry .... what is it? who would explain
      1. +1
        30 November 2015 09: 31
        Quote: Alekst
        Sierra Rein has a Ph.D. in chemistry .... what is it? who would explain


        In our opinion - Ph.D. in chemistry.
      2. 0
        1 December 2015 01: 43
        While some chemists, she talks to others teeth! laughing
    35. +1
      30 November 2015 08: 57
      Russia is in NATO, now this is out of the question. This question was worked out. GDP has been covering this possibility for a long time. Even a change in the political system did not change the attitude towards Russia. We are still being examined how the Russian Empire is located within the pre-revolutionary borders. And Turkey could have been expelled from the bloc for a long time, because of the invasion of Cyprus. As you can see, if it is beneficial to them, there are no principles. There are always explanations. If the United States gave the go-ahead to intercept the SU-24, then what is the question.
    36. 0
      30 November 2015 09: 01
      They are not stupid people at all, then NATO will not be needed at all ... Is there really such a fantasy? (cool car moderator substitutes words, only the meaning immediately changes)
    37. 0
      30 November 2015 09: 03
      Quote: Vladimirets
      No, you’re better off with us. : Yes:

      Enough konfrashka is enough! They know that Russia will immediately occupy the dominant
      position in the block, and will force home-made demagogues out of the ocean
    38. 0
      30 November 2015 09: 18
      Well damn it and jokes early in the morning, already invigorates! Nafig nafig this graph
    39. 0
      30 November 2015 09: 25
      I absolutely do not want my country to be a member of any NATO, there are already enough members there!
      Moreover, every day I am more and more convinced that those who are members of NATO with full confidence can be called the most real members! One of the meanings of the word member is a part of the body (more often about limbs).
    40. 0
      30 November 2015 09: 43
      Russia in NATO is hard to believe in it, but NATO, although confused by the latest events, will still not refuse the Turks, well, someone has to do the dirty work in the world, because NATO will always have such bastards in stock, good the turn is always to line up with noticeable constancy, these are Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, and other scratches of World War II, and now Ukraine ...
    41. 0
      30 November 2015 09: 47
      They all went crazy there!

      NATO was created against the USSR. As well as other blocks: SenTO, for example.
      You have to be a complete idiot to offer such a thing - Russia to NATO, can even lather a rope for themselves ... Nerds "dogs" ... fool
      1. The comment was deleted.
    42. +1
      30 November 2015 09: 59
      So there was this proposal at EBN, even Pasha did not conduct big military games with NATO soldiers. It’s true after NATO’s answer that for them we’ve made a very big joke.
    43. 0
      30 November 2015 09: 59
      It is clear that the title of the article is such a marketing ploy - to lay the intrigue in other words.
      Russia has always been and will be the number one adversary for NATO.
      But what about Erdogan and Turkey? No news here. Even after all the hype in supporting ISIS in Turkey and gaining economic benefits for the Erdogan family personally due to the smuggling of oil from the territories captured by bandits. NATO and its political leadership knew about this and was silent - because this is their son of a bitch.
      Now, NATO, through France, is probing Russia's ability to stay in Syria. NATO's mission is to oust Russia from Syria.
    44. 0
      30 November 2015 10: 42
      NATO was not created in order to fight, but in order to scam. And to fight only with dystrophics. They are even afraid to touch a country with several regional nuclear weapons. And Russia has more than a thousand and they pretend that they are not afraid? Complete stupidity! They just change diapers and make their face look like they have constipation by blowing a vein on their forehead. And at night they cannot fall asleep as it is scary. We need to act as we started and want to. And Turkey needs to be taught a lesson specifically. She just completely overwhelmed.
    45. 0
      30 November 2015 10: 50
      Utopia)))
      The NATO bloc was created in opposition to the USSR (Russia). Changing the format to include Russia in its composition casts doubt on the need for its existence.
    46. -1
      30 November 2015 11: 05
      The author clearly suffers from "Manilovism". Now NATO is considering abolishing the Russia-NATO commission and some countries are proposing to revise the provisions of the 1997 treaty on preventing the construction of NATO bases near the border with Russia. Now there can be no talk of improving relations between Russia and NATO. The positions of the two sides are based on mutually unacceptable concepts. Russia - on the theory of the times of Tsarist Russia and the USSR about "buffer" states. NATO on the modern theory of the 21st century. In Europe, the majority of residents are not interested in who owns the border territories between France and Germany, Austria or Italy, etc., although hundreds of years during these lands they fought among themselves. Europe has already been ill with "childhood buffer diseases."
      1. iov
        0
        30 November 2015 14: 51
        And what did it give them ???! The EU is bursting at the seams ... as for me: so some civilization ... Except £, perhaps ... it will gradually come to an end if it is not turned off its path .... And this some is not Russian. ..so here;)
    47. 0
      30 November 2015 11: 17
      Quote: sergeybulkin
      the states with England would constantly put pressure on the Russian Federation, and then they would still be kicked out anyway,

      They kick the cat off. Simply, the arrogant Saxons would create such conditions that Russia itself left. But Russia in NATO is a fantasy.
    48. +1
      30 November 2015 11: 23
      Our entry into NATO is impossible. NATO is a criminal organization that has established itself exclusively as an instrument of US geopolitical claims. It is clear that their claims are fundamentally at odds with our vision of the world order. NATO's crimes have been proven and confirmed by many documents. Our very big mistake is that we are trying to "make friends" without conflict with our "partners" and make little use of these facts. And in what capacity could we be in this organization?
    49. 0
      30 November 2015 11: 25
      Quote: sergeybulkin
      We don’t need NATO ...

      We do not need NATO, of course. But of two evils, they choose the lesser. Although I strongly doubt that even if, suppose we were accepted, we would not have been full members, and the states with England would constantly put pressure on the Russian Federation, and then they would still be kicked out, the Americans and others need an enemy, the enemy is not a real one. " theoretical "so that defense spending is to be credited to.


      I think it would be the same rake as "PERESTROIKA" - promises with the aim of total total destruction !!!!!!!!!!! Only not the USSR, but Russia. And also the further theft of our inventions ...
      It turns out that the author thinks: can Russia “lead?” Is there a new Tagged One?
    50. +1
      30 November 2015 11: 40
      "So is it possible to replace Islamist and unpredictable Turkey with an open and understandable Russia in NATO?"...

      "Fig - fig" - I hope our boyars in the State Duma will shout this way, if such a question suddenly arises ...

      To involve Russia in NATO, if it is in no way possible to involve it in the war, it means to tie her hands and feet ... The purpose of this "entry" will be only one - to subjugate Russia at any cost ... As they say, if you do not you can defeat the enemy in open combat - pretend to be his friend for a while, and then shoot him in the back with a knife ... This is how they want to do ...

      But in general, the problems of Islamism did not arise yesterday, but for some reason only Russia and its president Putin see it, and it’s hard for the rest to get through ... France probably got through the ass, and staffers, until the devil begins on their territory will not come to their senses ...

      But we do not need such friends ... We are enemies in life, and such an assessment of our "friendship" could appear only as a result of the actions not of the USSR-Russia, but of the West ...

      There was the USSR, the communists in power - we were enemies ... the CPSU left, the USSR - fell apart, we now have the same wild system as in the west - and, however, we still remain enemies ... Actually, not us, people, and our territory and subsoil ...

      We don't need their blocs-alliances-coalitions ... Over the past couple of years, all the i's have been dotted ...
    51. 0
      30 November 2015 12: 03
      The NATO organization was created as a counterbalance to the Soviet Union and has not lost its aggressive essence to this day, although in today’s Russia there seems to be no smell of communism... This means that the point is not at all in the opposition of two political systems, but in the fundamental difference between civilizations - Western and Russian, as well as their values. That's all . Joining NATO is the death of the Russian world and everything else too, so either we are them, or they are us... And the current situation is a state of unstable equilibrium, no one knows what will happen next request
    52. 0
      30 November 2015 12: 13
      Russia acts as a bogeyman. “Go to NATO, otherwise no one will protect you from the evil, barbaric Russia.” And then suddenly accept Russia? The poor Balts will then immediately break away from NATO?!? lol
      In addition, intimidation by Russia made it possible to squeeze out military budgets. Some strange "growing Russian threat" located in NATO wassat So you shouldn’t pay attention to such crazy articles.
    53. +1
      30 November 2015 12: 15
      Good idea. Russia is in NATO! Let them invite, Lavrov and Putin will consider their proposals. Interests must be protected anywhere. The main thing is that NATO headquarters should be in Moscow.
    54. 0
      30 November 2015 12: 59
      Is this the NATO that urinates on store windows or the Koran? Which increased the flow of drugs from Afghanistan tenfold? I'm disgusted to shake hands with you!
    55. 0
      30 November 2015 13: 13
      Since the creation of NATO, the United States began to gather everyone under its wing. First they gathered “their own”, and then whoever they found, the will of the “elder brother” was dictated to them, they were fed with money, etc. While everything was “chocolate” there were no special speeches, but when the modern crisis arose, “reasons” were immediately needed to escalate the situation. Invading Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and so on, imposing “democracy” in one’s own way to maintain dominance and not allow free thought. But you don’t want to get involved in everything with your own hands, but here we have NATO allies, and then you can write them off. This is the main reason for all the recent conflicts.
    56. 0
      30 November 2015 13: 14
      Joining NATO, but why? Dancing to Amer’s tune, well, that’s without us.
      First, restore the Russia-NATO dialogue.
      And we'll see.
    57. 0
      30 November 2015 13: 19
      join NATO. There can be two reasons for this - 1st to change from within, 2nd to change ourselves.
      1st it's not real.
      2nd? How long have we been to our liking for NATO’s actions?
      I have the honor.
    58. +1
      30 November 2015 13: 22
      Some nonsense has been written.
      Türkiye was needed in NATO because of the Dardanelles and missile bases.
      In response to the missiles in Turkey, the USSR had to drag missiles to Cuba, which led to the Cuban Missile Crisis.
    59. iov
      0
      30 November 2015 14: 45
      Quote: Lance
      We do not need to join NATO.
      We need NATO.
      In pieces.
      In the cold.
      am

      Hmm...yes...you can do it while it's hot
    60. 0
      30 November 2015 15: 03
      Putin announced Moscow's readiness to cooperate with the coalition led by the United States.

      Moscow. November 26. INTERFAX.RU - Russia respects the international coalition against ISIS in Syria, led by the United States, and is ready to cooperate with it, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.

      “We respect the coalition led by the Americans and are ready to cooperate with it,” Putin said at a press conference following negotiations with French President Francois Hollande.

      He noted that “if our partners are not ready for this, fine, we are ready, on our part, to work in another format, in one that is acceptable to our partners.”

      “We are ready to cooperate with the coalition led by the United States, but, of course, incidents like the destruction of our aircraft and the death of our military personnel, the pilot and the Marine who came to the rescue of his comrades, are absolutely unacceptable,” the president emphasized.

      “We proceed from the fact that this will not happen again, or we do not need such interaction with anyone, with any coalition of any country,” the president concluded.

      Putin agreed with Hollande on bilateral cooperation and interaction with the international coalition under the auspices of the United States to fight ISIS in Syria.

      “We agreed on how we will interact in the near future, including in a bilateral format, and with the coalition as a whole, led by the United States,” Putin said.

      “This is precisely what was the subject of detailed negotiations with the President of France,” he emphasized.

      The head of state noted that “we are talking about determining the territory on which strikes can be launched, on which it is better to refrain from striking, about the exchange of information on certain issues and coordination of actions, as they say, on the battlefield.”

      http://www.interfax.ru/russia/481840
    61. 0
      30 November 2015 16: 10
      yes, everything is fine, let them invite you. Russia can join NATO without any problems... the only question is, against whom will NATO exist? I think that now it’s already against Ukraine))))
      1. 0
        30 November 2015 17: 33
        Obviously against China. Ukraine has nothing to do with it. In general, there are few places where there is no lard. And the Ukrainians will immediately shout how much they love the Russian Federation and the GDP personally.
    62. 0
      30 November 2015 17: 05
      Why do we need this?
    63. 0
      30 November 2015 17: 18
      In 1999 (just before Hungary, Poland, and the Czech Republic joined the alliance), one of the American newspapers conducted a survey among fellow citizens. The question was: “Do you know what NATO is?” The majority of Americans from the proposed options chose the name of the North American Trucking Organization - North American Trucking Organization. good
    64. 0
      30 November 2015 17: 30
      What is it called... "Let's just stay friends." To join NATO means to go under the amers entirely, in all directions, this is worse than any Tatar Mongol yoke. This is not for Russia. Especially considering the fact that the Amers have problems with the same Chinese and others. And we are neighbors. I think you don’t have to be a genius to understand that then they’ll stupidly pit us against each other. They themselves will stand on the sidelines, helping with loans. Why do we need it?
    65. +1
      30 November 2015 17: 57
      Sierra Rain is so naive. NATO was created against the USSR. The USSR wanted to join NATO in 1955. But we were not accepted there. Then we created the Department of Internal Affairs. And the fact that Türkiye was useless to NATO is completely nonsense. 1. The USSR is forced to concentrate forces on the border with Turkey. 2. A strike can be launched from Turkish territory with the aim of capturing Baku and its oil fields. 3. Missiles with nuclear weapons can be placed on Turkish territory to strike the Urals and ZapSib. (By the way, the deployment of 1962 US missiles in 15 was the beginning of the Cuban Missile Crisis). 4. With the hands of Turkey, you can carry out your policy in the BV. It was the threat of a Turkish attack on Iraq in 1990-1991 that prevented Sadaam Hussein from unleashing the full power of his army on the UN troops.
    66. 0
      30 November 2015 19: 22
      Sierra Raine has a PhD in Chemistry.....I'm breaking the mold!
    67. 0
      30 November 2015 19: 55
      Sierra Rain has a PhD in Chemistry - how's that? philosophizes in chemistry or chemists with philosophy?
    68. 0
      30 November 2015 22: 03
      I would like to answer simply, Where were you looking, madam, in those days. Like reaches out to like. This is your entire alliance, you no longer need Turkey and a couple of others like them. If we had our way, we would eat each other whole. May the Almighty forgive. Are we talking about Russia in NATO? This is nonsense, it’s unlikely for a white person to be black. Good can only happen with fists! So good, so weighty! Type S-400, etc.
    69. 0
      30 November 2015 23: 16
      - Who knows... who knows... Confrontation between political systems is a thing of the past...
      - Communism versus capitalism is irrelevant... Christians versus Muslims? Black versus white? Eurasia versus America?
      - New problems require new approaches and new solutions, and therefore - who knows...
    70. 0
      1 December 2015 00: 15
      For what? Should we join NATO? Someone else is entertaining illusions about some kind of allies! Europe already pays tribute to Turkey in the amount of 3 ml. So what should we pay? No, we are like ourselves with our relatives, the army and navy.
    71. 0
      1 December 2015 00: 26
      Russia in NATO? This will be a misalliance. NATO was created to counter the Soviet Union (a version of the Russian Empire, only more united and powerful), and Russia today is its successor. And being a member of this alliance is nonsense for us. A more logical proposal would be to dissolve NATO and other military alliances around the world. Then there will be much fewer reasons for wars. And it would be even better if the West remembered the history of its campaigns in Russia and their results. Over the past couple of hundred years, we have not attacked the countries of Europe, much less America.
    72. 0
      1 December 2015 00: 34
      But this is a bunch of terrorists and their henchmen, who have done shit and are afraid of getting bullied, so they get into this nata. Russia is not like that, it is not at all like this gop-company, and accordingly it has nothing to do there
    73. 0
      1 December 2015 10: 11
      Of course, it’s not harmful for a Doctor of Philosophy to dream. But Russia will never be accepted into NATO.

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