Military Review

The origins and meaning of Turkish provocation

167
The origins and meaning of Turkish provocation



In the early spring of 2014, when Crimea was already Russian, and the civil war in Ukraine was just beginning, and it seemed to many that the worst could be avoided, I happened to notice in several articles and comments that the actions of the US and the EU in Ukraine have all the signs of provocation whose obvious goal is to involve Russia in the war. Then I said that if someone wants to force someone to fight, then sooner or later he will do it, the only question is when and how.

Since then, almost nothing has changed, except for one moment - rates have risen. In the spring of 2014, the US and the EU together pulled Russia into a war in Ukraine, hoping that they would tie up Russian resources there, and they themselves would perform at a convenient time, in a convenient place and easily achieve a geopolitical win.

Now we are talking about the fact that the United States, in an attempt to involve Russia in an unfavorable war for it, is ready to sacrifice its allies from the EU and NATO.

The official version and not very

It was here that the Turkish provocation was born. I have no doubt that this is precisely a provocation prepared in advance.

I can still believe that the professional operators of the Turkish media accidentally found themselves in a place from which they could best attack the Russian bomber and accidentally aimed their lenses at the right point, at the right moment. Anything can happen.

But the official version of the events presented by the Turkish authorities irrefutably confirms both the provocative nature of the actions of the Turkish Air Force fighters and the fact that the decision to organize a provocation was taken by the country's top officials.

Turks can not deny that the plane fell on Syrian territory. They also shot and published by them recorded that the plane collapsed immediately after being hit by a rocket. That is, this is not the case when it can be said that, they say, they hit him right under Ankara, he just flew for a long time before he fell. So, even if the plane violated the airspace of Turkey, it would have lasted for some seconds, and the strike on it was delivered when it was definitely in the airspace of Syria.

Such a blow after it could be partially justified if the Russian bomber struck at Turkish territory and immediately flew back abroad. But this was not, and the second intersection of the air line is difficult even to accurately fix.

However, according to the official version of Ankara, the Turkish Air Force warned the Su-24 crew ten times within five minutes that it was not flying there, and only then it was shot down. And they managed to get the sanction of the prime minister - Ahmet Davutoglu said that he personally gave the order to attack the bomber.

It is clear that the Turks were counting on a completely definite informational reaction of the West when the EU countries and the USA, despite the facts, accept the anti-Russian version, even if it is refuted by the facts.

When it turned out that the West was critical of the Turkish position, that neither NATO nor the EU could achieve an unequivocal support for Ankara, that the US would not act independently (without Europe), Erdogan tried to modernize the version. In the new version, the aircraft was in Turkish airspace from 7 to 17 seconds, and was shot down before it was determined by its type and nationality.

Ends meet in Turkish versions now do not converge at all. The pilots did not know whom they shot down, and the Turkish General Staff immediately announced that a Russian bomber had been shot down. The premiere is informed that they are going to destroy some unknown aircraft - and he immediately gives the go-ahead, even though Russia, the USA, France and even Canada are flying in the region. No only IG planes. The most important thing is to raise the fighters, warn 10 once, get the prime minister's sanction and shoot down the plane, according to Erdogan, the Turks have time for no more than 17 seconds.

In general, they were preparing a provocation, counted on one of its information and political support, got another and were confused. The main thing is that Putin said that the Russian bomber had never crossed the border of Turkey. The President of Russia cannot err in publicly assessing the situation that could lead to a military conflict between Russia and the NATO country. He is not Erdogan.

Who commands the parade

Ask yourself a question. Could the Turks go on a similar provocation, without coordination with senior partners? If it were a question of a spontaneous decision in a critical situation, I would say that Erdogan and his team are able to make ill-considered confrontational decisions. But we have already noted that the provocation was prepared ahead of time. It was not action in the heat of passion. It was a cold-blooded and planned murder.

Ankara, like Tbilisi in 2008, relied on the protection of the United States and NATO. The Turks had more grounds than Georgians - yet Turkey is a NATO country. But the result was the same. The United States stepped aside and pretended that they had nothing to do with it. Erdogan rushed about, but it was too late.

Now, many experts are discussing how Russia will close the sky of Syria with the C-400 complex, arm the Kurds and defeat Turkey (not immediately, but soon). I think that talking about tough measures is premature. Yes, the air defense of the group will be strengthened, and aircraft that pose a potential threat to Russian aircraft can be shot down. Yes, Russia will try to take the sky of Syria under tighter control. Yes, tacit economic sanctions against Turkey have already begun to act. But with regard to who will be arming whom, how and against whom, we must still wait and think.

Of course, the assessments of the President of Russia, who called Ankara’s actions “a backstab” and the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, who accused Turkey of aiding terrorists, are unprecedentedly tough for modern Russia and are obliged to take concrete measures. But in order that the measures do not prove to be beneficial to your enemies, it is also necessary to figure out who and why Fraud Erdogan was substituted.

And Erdogan framed. He was persuaded to attack the Russian armed forces (to commit an act of unprovoked aggression, giving rise to a military response) and was thrown alone with fate.

A country that could give Erdogan such guarantees that would convince him to attack the Russian videoconferencing can only be the United States (the rest can not guarantee anything when it comes to Russia).

In the year 2014 in Ukraine, the United States could expect Russia to react to the coup and the beginning of the civil war according to the Georgian scenario and send troops.

But in 2015, in Syria, Washington clearly could not count on Russia's spontaneous reaction. Moscow couldn’t start a war with Turkey simply because it’s necessary first to take out tourists, then create and deploy a group capable of defeating the weak Turkish army, providing logistics (including for Syria, due to the inevitable closure of the straits in the event of war) ) and only then proceed to action. All this requires more than one week of time, really - two or three months, at least, or even six months or a year.

Consequently, the United States did not count on a spontaneous conflict between Russia and Turkey. Just as they hardly expected that the EU and NATO would be seriously impressed by the awkward Turkish lies and rush to save Ankara from Moscow.

But Washington is actively trying to play with the Kurds. Kurds dream of Kurdistan. Kurdish territories in Syria and Iraq already enjoy sufficiently broad autonomy. In Iran, the Kurds are much smaller, and the problem is not so acute. But under the control of Turkey is about 50% of the territories of potential Kurdistan, in its own territory lives from 40% of Kurds (and now, taking into account refugees, it may already be 60%). Turkey is the only country leading the war against the Kurds for several decades, and in the territories of Syria and Iraq too. The plans of Ankara and Washington regarding the Kurds diverge diametrically.

Washington cannot openly oppose its NATO ally and publicly support the forces fighting for the dismemberment of the Turkish state. But now Kurds rushed to ask weapon, financing and support from Russia, hoping that Moscow will easily agree to help the enemies of its enemy.

And the Turks do not like not only the Kurds. Armenians remember not only the 1915-1917 genocide, but also the Turkish blockade of Armenia in connection with the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh. And they certainly remember that the Great Armenia under Tigran II the Great went out to the Black, Caspian and Mediterranean seas, and the Armenian kingdom in Cilicia existed until the 1515 year. Yes, and the Greeks did not forget the massacre massacre, nor did they lose the desire to return Constantinople. That is, there will be enough people willing to participate in the partition of Turkey, and all of them will come to Russia with a request to help their just struggle.

Everything is just beginning

The destabilization of Turkey is not in Russia's interests. But turning it into a branch of the IG is even worse. So it’s possible that someone will have to help restore historical justice. For example, today, many in Russia, the establishment of the Greco-Armenian border in Asia Minor would be perceived as a blessing, although it is far from the fact that Greece restored within the borders of Byzantium from the time of Basil II or returned to the borders of Tigran II Armenia would be reliable partners for Russia. And the views of the United States on Kurdish statehood make one wonder at all who might actually be the main beneficiary of the Russian-Turkish confrontation.

In general, I can repeat that once the task of drawing Russia into a war is worth it, the provocations will continue. From whom to expect the next (from Turkey, Ukraine, the Balts) is unknown. However, in terms of the specific Russian-Turkish crisis caused by the attack on a Russian plane, this is still only beginning. Tourists will leave Turkey, economic ties will be cut off, the Foreign Ministry will still require an apology. The question may still consider the UN Security Council. And more will go to Moscow for money and weapons walkers from all those who are not averse to finally resolve the Turkish issue.

We have time to make a decision on how to respond to provocation by Ankara, so that we can observe our own interests and it was not for anyone to try again. In the meantime, Russia has already used the situation to strengthen its position in Syria. After the implementation of the intentions voiced by the General Staff, Shoigu and Putin to completely close the sky of Syria with Russian air defense systems and increase the number of fighters based on Hamim, permission to fly in Syrian airspace will have to be asked to both French and Americans, and everyone who will fly there. Just to not accidentally be taken for "an aircraft that carries a potential threat to Russian aircraft." And it is unlikely that Turkey will be able to continue to actively participate in the Syrian settlement.

But we are only at the beginning of the process. We have not escaped the war, only postponed it. And the trick is that in the current conditions, for Erdogan (provocation from Su-24, he seriously undermined his domestic political positions, and Turkey’s positions in the international arena), the war may be the best way out of the possible. If he does achieve a war with Russia, the problem will come to another level. NATO will have to decide on its future fate, and inside Turkey Turkey will count on the consolidation of society to repel the enemy. For him, it is extremely risky, but the way out. As for Poroshenko risky, but the only way out is to resume the war in the Donbass.

If Erdogan and Poroshenko manage to agree on concerted actions, then the US dream can become a reality - Russia will face the prospect of simultaneously drawing into a military conflict with Ukraine and the NATO state (Turkey).

So no need to wait from the Russian leadership for simple linear solutions. The situation on the world chessboard is becoming more complicated. The United States is sacrificing more and more new allies. Sooner or later, the victim will have to accept. This is best done in time.
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  1. hedgehog in the fog
    hedgehog in the fog 27 November 2015 15: 26 New
    -64
    Russia’s patience is not unlimited, but the fact that the Turks were in NATO, and Georgia was in NATO, so what? helped them fagots 8.08.08 ??
    1. sever.56
      sever.56 27 November 2015 15: 29 New
      50
      Quote: hedgehog in the fog
      , and the fact that the Turks in NATO, and Georgia was in NATO, so what?


      You mixed up something ... Georgia has never been to NATO. NATO, represented by advisers from the United States, was in Georgia, but I don’t want to!
      1. Baikonur
        Baikonur 27 November 2015 15: 39 New
        20
        This hedgehog in the head - fog! laughing

        And I completely agree with the author !:
        Erdogan was set up and left alone with fate.
        popolzovali as a boat, holed!
        And now, because of this turbodown, which stupidly performed the command of the jackal "FAS"
        It's only begining
        1. podpolkovnik
          podpolkovnik 27 November 2015 15: 53 New
          50
          Quote: Baikonur
          This hedgehog in the head - fog! laughing

          And I completely agree with the author !:
          Erdogan was set up and left alone with fate.
          popolzovali as a boat, holed!
          And now, because of this turbodown, which stupidly performed the command of the jackal "FAS"
          It's only begining

          I have to ask about your comments. Stop writing all kinds of heresy. Do you want to describe all your technology? Please, because it is primitively simple. First, you reserve the first post by writing a phrase like "absolutely immediately said about it", then add this post with phrases no more "intellectual". I've been watching this for a long time. The question is, why do you need this? Get the epaulettes of the generalissimo or "master of the universe"? Dear Baikonur, for whom do you take the members of the forum? Such cheap "tricks" do not add authority to you! I am sure that in my opinion I am not alone. I sent you a similar letter to your e-mail.
          I have the honor to bow out!
          1. Now we are free
            Now we are free 27 November 2015 16: 07 New
            68
            Good article, informative. All this reminds me of 1940 ...
            Shakhnazarov said an interesting phrase yesterday in a program with Solovyov
            -USA as a hunter poisons the Russian bear with a pack of its dogs, dogs bite from different sides of the bear, but not one of them can not only kill him but cause at least some significant harm. The goal of the dogs is to drive the bear out of itself and substitute it under the hunter's shot. Although a bear can lift a couple of dogs ...
            Solovyov interrupted Shakhnazarov
            -Karen Georgievich And when was the hunter interested in the fate of the dogs? ..

            With all the competent approach of the leadership of the Russian Federation to the solution of provocations on the part of the United States, these provocations (as well as potential fronts) really are becoming more and more.

            But again, speaking in the terminology of hunting - At worst, no one will prevent the bear from rushing immediately to the "hunter" (USA) and even though he will shoot, take off his head under the condemning (such an act) barking of dogs and then, if he has enough strength, to fill it and " Second issue "(England) and lastly, take with you a couple of especially barking mongrels (Poland, the Baltic states).

            P.S. Oh, yes, and the usually cautious poacher (China) who approached the carnage (China) and is already going to remove the skin from the killed bear, rip the belly out, finally leaning on the "Cunning ... friend of animals".

            P.P.S. The question is not who is stronger, but who goes to the end.
            1. 222222
              222222 27 November 2015 16: 26 New
              0
              Now we are free (2) RU Today, 16:07 ↑
              Good article, informative. All this reminds me of 1940 ...
              Shakhnazarov said an interesting phrase yesterday in a program with Solovyov
              -USA as a hunter poisons the Russian bear with a pack of its dogs, dogs bite from different sides of the bear, //// @@
              // from the article. "So no need to expect simple linear decisions from the Russian leadership. The situation on the world chessboard is becoming more and more confusing. The United States is offering more and more of its allies as a sacrifice. Sooner or later, the sacrifice will have to be accepted. It is best to do this. during."\
              laughing laughing laughing
              ..the situation .. and if we assume the PLAN .Putin-Erdogan .. to get rid of annoying American "friends" and part of the hated Europe .. the so-called "royal gambit" on a large geopolitical chessboard .. in which sacrificing a Pawn you get a Queen ?? ??? laughing
            2. ancient
              ancient 27 November 2015 16: 28 New
              -19
              Quote: Now we are free
              Solovyov interrupted Shakhnazarov
              -Karen Georgievich And when was the hunter interested in the fate of the dogs? ..


              Your comments, honestly .. did not like it, but the example with Solovyov ... in general .. "past everything" negative
              1. NORMAL HUNTER .. ALWAYS TAKE CARE OF YOUR DOGS.
              2. Solovyov is .. "RUPOR OF POWER" .. though a few days ago he "sat in such a puddle" wassat - there was a program where, as always, we touched on the topic ... why are we "GREAT" if we have everything .. "through one locally" .. well, Solovyov .. "loyal PROTECTOR" immediately- .. "it's all 90 -e years .. it's all Yeltsin's team, "etc. etc. lol
              And then bATS-ea the next day the President of Russia with the Chairman of the Government of Russia at ... the opening of the MEMORIAL (and what kind of one) and who is right for Boris Nikolaevich ... and what SPEECHES .. uttered ..... "Savior of the Fatherland and All Russia" .. without him at all .. nothing would have happened, etc.
              The next day, Mr. Srorviev, as if nothing had happened .. did not even mention .. about his .. "lapse", although he substituted his "boss" .. in full. wink

              Quote: Now we are free
              With all the competent approach of the leadership of the Russian Federation to the solution of provocations on the part of the United States, these provocations (as well as potential fronts) really are becoming more and more.


              Since when is TOLERASTY .. called the "competent approach"? belay You, like the amers ... ". We are fighting IS", and its territory is getting bigger and bigger. " wassat

              And here is P.S. and P.S.S. honestly liked it, therefore +! drinks
              1. avdkrd
                avdkrd 27 November 2015 22: 30 New
                22
                Quote: ancient
                2. Solovyov is .. "Mouth of power" .. though a few days ago he "sat in such a puddle" - there was a program where, as always, they touched on the topic ... why are we "GREAT" if we have everything .. "through one locally ".. well, Solovyov .." a loyal DEFENDER "right away .." this is all the 90s .. this is all the Yeltsin team, etc. etc.

                Why do you think Soloviev "sat in such a puddle? Soloviev expressed his opinion and the opinion of tens of millions of Russians. I personally do not have any acquaintances who positively comment on the board of this Yeltsin’s sandwich. I myself put an equal sign between the labeled hook and the drunken president. Both are traitors, but Boriska did one Act - he left and left the “heir” of a truly worthy man, for which BB apparently shows respect. It is unlikely that Solovyov will be "blamed" for his position.
                1. BVTKKU86
                  BVTKKU86 29 November 2015 19: 01 New
                  -6
                  Borisku "left" GDP and others like him
              2. little man
                little man 29 November 2015 19: 54 New
                +4
                as I agree with you about the "mausoleum" in Eburg.
              3. spiriolla-45
                spiriolla-45 30 November 2015 09: 17 New
                0
                Have to accept, the main thing on time ?? So already slap the time when it was necessary to seize New Russia. Ukrainians would not be able to buy IGILOVSkuyneft from the Turks, and Crimea couldn’t get sad without light, and the sanctions and screeching from the geyropa were the same as now.
                lost time with the transition to a mobilization economy, the Medvedev government, already three years, as it should have sunk into oblivion.
              4. V. Salama
                V. Salama 1 December 2015 15: 19 New
                0
                Quote: ancient
                The next day, Mr. Srorviev, as if nothing had happened .. did not even mention .. about his .. "lapse", although he substituted his "boss" .. in full.

                Maybe this only means that he has no "boss" at all? It looks like you are not good at understanding people or simply forgot that until relatively recently he, together with his friend Kolya Zlobin and our "democrats", led the country to a dead end. Now they are not friends in public, this is understandable - the feeding troughs are different and the situation, but they don't leave each other without work - they argue, damn it. I would not be surprised if they are tightly friends with families. People like him have the same principle - everything is right and useful, which ensures safety and food for him and his family. If necessary, if he does not prove that fascism is the most humane ideology in the world, he will quite convincingly justify that all the others are no better. When Russia is in danger and on an emotional upsurge, and there is no reason to blame abroad, he turned from a Russophobe to a Russophile and a superpatriot. This is a talented showman capable of taking any advantageous position and only who has found his niche.
              5. The comment was deleted.
            3. Zoldat_A
              Zoldat_A 27 November 2015 17: 12 New
              25
              Quote: Now we are free
              With all the competent approach of the leadership of the Russian Federation to the solution of provocations on the part of the United States, these provocations (as well as potential fronts) really are becoming more and more.

              For some reason, when the skakak jumped on the Maidan, I once told my wife in the morning that, according to the laws of the genre, blood was about to spill. Moreover, the idea of ​​living without sacrifice is not good. We need heroes and sacrifices, but better if in one glass. In the evening, we were shown on TV snipers and rodents screamed that there Peskov with a berdanka personally shrouded in the bushes. My words were then a pure coincidence in terms, but they absolutely accurately explained the pattern.

              Why am I? And to the fact that now, in order to continue the banquet, near the border of Syria and Turkey, but from the Turkish side, a plane should be shot down. Better if a civilian. The debris will not fall yet - they will blame Russia and its S-400. Experts, especially ours, will not be allowed to the wreckage (only Turkish, American and Dutch investigators who understand everything except flight accidents will have access), Erdogan will show some can from an old Ford and say that “this is a part of the C rocket -400 ". Another round of hysteria, accusations, the United States is rubbing its hands pretty much and saying that Turkey itself must deal with Russia, Erdogan is carrying on another rubbish ...

              A curtain.

              And again everything will be sewn with white threads, again funny inconsistencies like "10 warnings to an unknown aircraft in 17 seconds", in general, all this has already been seen ...

              Who would know how I do not want to guess again! Especially if the Turks do not regret their own civilian plane ...
              1. igorka357
                igorka357 27 November 2015 17: 45 New
                -14
                Such a non-obsessive inclination to "like I'm wanging" ... wink ?
                1. Zoldat_A
                  Zoldat_A 28 November 2015 03: 03 New
                  +8
                  Quote: igorka357
                  Such a non-obsessive inclination to "like I'm wanging" ...?

                  Wang is quackery. And to analyze the situation, knowing that "William is our Shakespeare" also explained that something new, what the hell can be invented, is completely different. Everything was already once. Always a great event needs dead heroes - take any religion, any revolution - everywhere and always it cannot do without martyrs. They needed them on the Maidan - they organized. And now America and Erdogan need them to show the whole "coalition" who is bad here ...
              2. vsoltan
                vsoltan 27 November 2015 18: 30 New
                +3
                Zoldat a

                Ha, as an option, perhaps ... but I have another bifurcation in a bad head ... is it not a comedy of all these "leaks" of Erdogan from the SGA? Maybe it is calculated that we will believe, we will start a confrontation in full ... well, and then those who have withdrawn, supposedly, the SGA and NATO ... will come to their senses and support Turkey in full ... I do not work at the General Staff, therefore, I cannot even assume that it is likely possible multi-moves and gambits ... just shared, I would like to hear other opinions. I have the honor ...
                1. region58
                  region58 27 November 2015 23: 18 New
                  +2
                  Quote: vsoltan
                  I would like to hear other opinions

                  Also all sorts of thoughts roam on this subject. A simple question - why did the Turks need this? Well, then they should have some kind of brains ... Maybe someone else is third to whom all this is beneficial? And it is interesting to what extent the Americans, on their Air Force base, coordinate their actions with the Turks? Incirlik is not very far from where everything happened.
                  1. bif
                    bif 28 November 2015 02: 05 New
                    +2
                    Quote: region58
                    And it is interesting to what extent the Americans, on their Air Force base, coordinate their actions with the Turks? Incirlik is not very far from where everything happened.

                    "Throughout the entire period of operation of the Russian Aerospace Forces, the intelligence of the NATO countries did not sit idly by. The actions of our aviation were constantly monitored by means of space, air and ground reconnaissance. The attack itself involved several reconnaissance and target designation systems - at least 3, as well as two F-16 with the latest AIM-9X missiles.

                    How it all happened?

                    US Air Force plane Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS took off on November 24 from Preveza airbase in Greece. The second E-3A Saudi Air Force took off from the Riyadh airbase. Both aircraft performed one common task - determining the exact location of the aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Force. They chose the "victim".

                    The American E-3A was supposed to determine the mode of operation of the weapon control radar of the Su-24M2 aircraft, check whether it is in a search state or has already performed a lock and accompanies the target, generating data for firing. It is known that AWACS can control the actions of aviation in battle and transmit information to avionics and PNK aircraft for warfare .... "Further in the article http://topwar.ru/86916-v-atake-turcii-na-su-24 -uchastvovali-ssha-i-saudovskaya-a
                    raviya.html
              3. Yars
                Yars 29 November 2015 14: 43 New
                0
                Quote: Zoldat_A
                Quote: Now we are free
                With all the competent approach of the leadership of the Russian Federation to the solution of provocations on the part of the United States, these provocations (as well as potential fronts) really are becoming more and more.

                For some reason, when the skakak jumped on the Maidan, I once told my wife in the morning that, according to the laws of the genre, blood was about to spill. Moreover, the idea of ​​living without sacrifice is not good. We need heroes and sacrifices, but better if in one glass. In the evening, we were shown on TV snipers and rodents screamed that there Peskov with a berdanka personally shrouded in the bushes. My words were then a pure coincidence in terms, but they absolutely accurately explained the pattern.

                Why am I? And to the fact that now, in order to continue the banquet, near the border of Syria and Turkey, but from the Turkish side, a plane should be shot down. Better if a civilian. The debris will not fall yet - they will blame Russia and its S-400. Experts, especially ours, will not be allowed to the wreckage (only Turkish, American and Dutch investigators who understand everything except flight accidents will have access), Erdogan will show some can from an old Ford and say that “this is a part of the C rocket -400 ". Another round of hysteria, accusations, the United States is rubbing its hands pretty much and saying that Turkey itself must deal with Russia, Erdogan is carrying on another rubbish ...

                A curtain.

                And again everything will be sewn with white threads, again funny inconsistencies like "10 warnings to an unknown aircraft in 17 seconds", in general, all this has already been seen ...

                Who would know how I do not want to guess again! Especially if the Turks do not regret their own civilian plane ...

                Well, when Arseny shouted on the Maidan, "I smoke in the forehead, I smoke in the forehead," it was already clear that there would be an execution of innocents on the Maidan, it is sad that not all of this is understood in Ukraine today!
                Erdogan, listening to the west and knocking down the SU-24, trapped himself, he pitted his state with Russia (it is not profitable for him first), set a precedent for social unrest, which, as we see the West, easily warms up and sets up revolutions, because killing an opposition lawyer is not just it happened! The West does not need such an unfaithful as Erdogan, then he is friends with Russia, then he is suddenly a friend with America again, the Western elites need a faithful servant! The trouble is that Erdogan does not understand this and his future is sad ....
                1. little man
                  little man 29 November 2015 20: 00 New
                  +6
                  why are you bothering for Erdogan. What do we care about his fate. The fate of our country is at stake.
                2. SCHWERIN
                  SCHWERIN 30 November 2015 11: 42 New
                  +1
                  EEE miles sorry. 2 years ago they said that a scribe would soon be gunpowder and Yaytsenyuhu. So what. Where is he, I write about the scribe? Mishiko will drive Odessa residents! Where is the scribe? Lithuanians will drive Dasha Mushroom away, bros will not support the anti-Russian sentiments of their politicians!
                  Nothing will happen to Erdogan. As he sat, he will sit and received the candy.
                  Correctly someone wrote. Wait for the civilian plane. Netherlands or better USA. And it doesn't matter who will shoot down, the Greeks, the "lads" or the Poles. Russia will be to blame ...
              4. little man
                little man 29 November 2015 19: 57 New
                0
                do not need such a scenario !!!!
              5. Xsanchez
                Xsanchez 29 November 2015 20: 18 New
                +1
                In general, the aviation provocations (catastrophes) of the skates of the SGA and Small Britain analysts are even sickened (they don’t want to invent anything new since the 1960s). (although there is only one world)). There are inconsistencies with other countries: either the victims will survive, or there are witnesses. All the jambs cannot be eliminated. There are questions, there are no answers.
            4. igorka357
              igorka357 27 November 2015 17: 29 New
              +6
              Well, actually a hunter always saves a working dog, and never sets him up, and if he accidentally kills or injures him, it’s like losing a child to him, you just don’t need to compare the hunter with the fucking USA, hunters are people of the forest, they are more than they should they don’t take it, and they’re not going to take all the taiga, I myself am from Siberia, grew up in a hunting village in the middle of the taiga, so Solovyov didn’t get there at all, but he froze nonsense !!! Yes, and you’re not looking very good at hunting, don’t count for insulting, the working dog will never let the bear rush at the hunter, even if there is one, it will just set him up, giving him the opportunity to shoot! Cases of attacks on hunters have always occurred either in the absence of dogs or with dogs that are not intended for hunting animals, and therefore, they simply left when they sensed a Bear ..)) some even left a very impressive mark with such large heaps, these mongrels are probably similar to the mongrels of the USA, although I repeat, the USA itself is not a hunter at all!
              1. free
                free 29 November 2015 20: 25 New
                0
                I think you do not distinguish flies from cutlets, you do not need to understand everything so literally, the hunter and dogs are figurative!
            5. tehnic
              tehnic 28 November 2015 01: 06 New
              +3
              If without a bear and dogs. He who knows how to really fight, chooses from the crowd the most arrogant and most important. He puts all his strength to knock him out first. Roll his jaw to his side and preferably his neck, and then catch in turn his jackals and wet them. That's the way it is with the USA, otherwise there will be no peace, like flies torment. I am convinced whether sooner or not, but I have to fight with them. And you need to carefully watch that / their / behind did not make the bandwagon.
            6. albezdelev
              albezdelev 29 November 2015 19: 19 New
              0
              All of the above is very, very sad, although very similar to the truth
            7. free
              free 29 November 2015 20: 20 New
              0
              I agree one hundred percent, if there is nothing to lose, then there is no one to spare!
            8. Semen Semyonitch
              Semen Semyonitch 30 November 2015 07: 07 New
              0
              Quote: Now we are free
              And when was the hunter interested in the fate of the dogs? ..

              A good hunter always.
            9. spiriolla-45
              spiriolla-45 30 November 2015 09: 09 New
              0
              It is important that the bear is awake, and not fall into hibernation. For, then, without dogs, they will kill with a horn.
            10. host
              host 30 November 2015 12: 53 New
              0
              And Turkey is the dog that will "rush" seriously.
              They have a "trump card" in the form of straits, if they are blocked by Turkey, then the United States will force NATO to get involved in the problem ...
              One must be prepared for such a development of events ...
          2. Terner38
            Terner38 27 November 2015 16: 15 New
            +7
            I’m far from the Internet business, but there’s always a question- For shoulder straps they give loot or is it just an end in itself ??
            1. Uncle VasyaSayapin
              Uncle VasyaSayapin 27 November 2015 16: 18 New
              +4
              See it simply as a game.
          3. vsoltan
            vsoltan 27 November 2015 18: 23 New
            0
            podpolkovnik

            I agree.
          4. Terrible_L.
            Terrible_L. 28 November 2015 04: 25 New
            0
            I agree, a solid plus
          5. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 17: 51 New
            +2
            Quote: podpolkovnik
            I am sure that I am not alone in my opinion.

            not alone, I already wrote, in the summer it seems, to the marshal, though then he still went to the generals laughing
        2. SPACE
          SPACE 27 November 2015 16: 59 New
          -2
          Quote: sever.56
          You mixed up something ... Georgia has never been to NATO. NATO, represented by advisers from the United States, was in Georgia, but I don’t want to!

          Quote: Baikonur
          This hedgehog in the head - fog!

          What the hell of a hedgehog person to minus? and smart people ?, he absolutely correctly said, even if not in fact, but in essence! and spit on the nuances.
          NATO can help Turkey just like Georgia, nibbling ties ...
        3. Absurdidat
          Absurdidat 27 November 2015 17: 35 New
          +8
          Yes, no one used him or instigated him, his personal initiative, the guy got hot, he lost the shores, he considers himself an incredible cool guy in a region that no one decides to. And how not to get hot when his business, the business of his people, relatives, nullify the only hope of grabbing a huge piece of Syria for themselves, because for this it was decided to create a buffer zone there. Erdogan is a guy with bells, and they work like a man's, and not like a gay-European leader, so he freaked out on testosterone. Yes, I ran into not those. There is euphoria in turchland now, the Russian plane has been soaked and we have nothing to do with it, we are cool, we warned, the drone was shot down, you don't understand - get it. Only we understood everything, and the Turchland will now pay in blood and money, as it should be. It is amazing that this narrow-minded politician decided to rely on internal nationalist and patriotic forces, what's the point? Moreover, he just won the elections, here in the international arena it was necessary to leave at the expense of Russia, but no - the project of weaning a tidbit of Syria and its oil turned out to be preferable. Debiloid. Our Darkest One explained to him and to everyone else at the UN: we will cut the igil, Syria will exist, WE will buy oil, and from Syria, and not from the igils, even if it is more expensive, there will be no gas pipe from the shitcatar. Of course Erdogan was upset, the investment was zero, and with the help of the Jews, such a profit came from oil. By the way, the Jews do not seem to sniff money at all, 80% of all Ishilov's oil is legalized from them, bam in tankers and pipes. The Israeli government, which seems to hate terror and radical Muslims, does not notice its "businessmen" in blood. Yap shorter is the same, this Israel, corrupt.
        4. xtur
          xtur 27 November 2015 20: 50 New
          -2
          >> Erdogan was framed and left alone with fate.
          > And I completely agree with the author!

          in vain.
          The Turks always had an exclusively thought-out foreign policy, and never the states were able to force them to do something that was not beneficial to Turkey itself. Because now no one has set up the Turks, they decided that the fate of ISIS is in the balance. ISIS is their only chance to enter the world major league, because at one time, until the 19th century, the Turkish sultan was also a caliph - the religious leader of Muslims, that is how the meaning of the Ottoman Empire was, to be a single state of Muslims.

          Now very strong circles of the American elite are betting on ISIS for the sake of fomenting a global mess that will help the United States get rid of debt, as it has already been several times over the past 100 years.


          > that Greece, restored within the borders of Byzantium during the time of Basil II, or Armenia returned to the borders of Tigranes II, will be reliable partners for Russia.


          The territory of all historical regions of Armenia does not exceed the territory of Germany / Spain. In the modern world, a state of this size without allies, without a geopolitical roof is not able to exist - for example, France, which has an excellent military-industrial complex.

          Even an independent Armenia within its historical borders will need Russia to protect itself from Western Europe / USA / Saudis / Iran ...

          So Ishchenko deliberately drives a blizzard.

          In the current situation, when the Kurds live in most of Historical Armenia, without such an ally as the Russian Federation, the Armenians will not be able to survive in the state united with the Kurds - after all, in the current realities, the Kurds will not be able to expel Kurds from these territories.
          And at one time, most of the Armenians were killed by the hands of the Kurds, who zealously participated in the genocide.

          So Ishchenko deliberately drives a blizzard.
        5. The comment was deleted.
      2. Temples
        Temples 27 November 2015 15: 42 New
        +3
        We have not yet escaped the war, only postponed it.

        This world is that very period of the postponed war.
        And we always live in this state.
        God grant wisdom and restraint to our rulers.
        A provocateurs must be punished.

        At the moment, relations between Turkey and Russia are, to put it mildly, trying to freeze.

        If in numbers, then Turkey buys us 25 billion.
        And we at the Turks at 7bn.
        And who benefits from breaking the relationship ???

        With whom else do we have such trade relationships?

        This attack on our plane does not fit somehow with the realities of life.
        1. kg pv
          kg pv 27 November 2015 17: 16 New
          +1
          Can you measure everything in money ???? sad
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. bulvas
        bulvas 27 November 2015 15: 50 New
        +5

        The US can show that it is not going to intercede for Turkey in order to lure Russia into an answer, and then blame it for aggression

      5. Serhio
        Serhio 27 November 2015 17: 18 New
        +1
        Hedgehog is really in the fog. laughing
    2. Alex240Magnitka
      Alex240Magnitka 27 November 2015 15: 29 New
      +1
      Georgia was not in NATO!
      1. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 27 November 2015 15: 34 New
        22
        If Erdogan and Poroshenko manage to agree on agreed

        These sixes agree clearly .... They are scared alone! bully But it is right that the "liver" shakes them in front of Russia!
        1. Oleg14774
          Oleg14774 27 November 2015 15: 50 New
          0
          Quote: MIKHAN
          These sixes agree explicitly.

          What rush from one extreme to another ?! Wait and see. If it were so easy to agree, then we already agreed. Something is in the way. And probably this is something so serious that the United States and Europe did not officially support Erdogan!
          1. Sashka
            Sashka 27 November 2015 16: 11 New
            12
            Quote: Oleg147741
            The United States and Europe have not yet officially supported Erdogan!

            Well, unofficially supported the same. Already answered Igorka, who stated that everyone turned away from Turkey, but I repeat:
            they support morally, at least, without commenting in a negative way, without condemning. So, let’s substantively:
            "Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Barack Obama agreed that such incidents should not be repeated, measures are needed to prevent them. According to the White House, Barack Obama emphasized the quote," The United States and NATO support Turkey's right to defend national sovereignty. "(C) Vesti Where is Lamb turned away from the Turks ?! Maybe he is not going to use Article 5, but de facto approved the actions of Turkey, after which Erdogan said that he would continue to do the same.
            Next:
            "" This is a very serious incident and I am sorry that this happened. I spoke about this to President Erdogan and the President of the Russian Federation. It is clear that at this point and at this time, any risk and any possible recurrence of such incidents must be avoided. The main thing is to refrain from escalation. The only goal that we must all set for ourselves is the fight against ISIS and the destruction of terrorists. We have no other goals, "- stressed Mr. Hollande." (C) Finam. And here, France "clearly condemned" the Turks !!! Here, even between the lines, there is no smell of condemnation, there is only regret and a call to refrain from escalating because of the SU-24 (tell this to the relatives of the victims).
            Who else is there ?! Merkel:
            "I hope that yesterday's events with the downed Russian bomber will not become a step backward in the Vienna process," Merkel said "(c) KP. Where did Frau scold the Turks ?! Show?!
            Next is NATO:
            Jens Stoltenberg, NATO Secretary General: “The data received from other allies are consistent with the version of Turkey. I have already expressed my concern about the consequences of the hostilities of the Russian Federation near the borders of NATO. This underlines the importance of having and enforcing measures to avoid similar incidents in the future. ” (c) NTV. Be that as it may, the NATO Secretary General said this, which means that this is an official position.
            Well, our allies:
            "Such tragic and very dangerous incidents cause deep regret and extreme concern. Especially when they occur in a region where a bloody armed confrontation has been going on for several years already, and when our brotherly Russia and friendly Turkey become participants in such incidents," says the message. (c) RIA. Here, as always, both yours and ours. And where is the lapel from Turkey ?!
            I regard such neutral statements as approval, or at least not condemnation. What Turkey regards as "good". Of all, only the Greeks reacted more or less adequately to this!
            And you say they leaked ... They should have merged when they would have waited for the outcome of the confrontation between Russia and Turkey, so that would have nothing to do with it. And such sluggish reactions indicate that the West has adopted a wait-and-see policy, so that later there would be no complaints against them from both sides. Sincerely.
            1. igorka357
              igorka357 27 November 2015 17: 56 New
              -2
              I don’t even understand, but your sayings like "sluggish reactions, a wait-and-see attitude, so that there are no complaints against them," this is not called merged! You stupidly substitute three people in place of Russia, the United States and Turkey ... the Turkish whip kicked the walking uncle down the street and ran, he chased after him and caught up in the gateway of the Turk-Snooper saw next to the US bigot talking to the Sneak ... why did you do that, I respect your right to defend yourself from the uncle ... but let's not fight ... then I was expecting something completely different, and sooner or later this uncle-Russia will come across .. !!!
              1. Sashka
                Sashka 27 November 2015 22: 13 New
                +1
                Likewise, only close to the situation. Shnir flunked the student's grandmother, the student is indignant, and the bumpkin says: "You probably did it in vain. But you had every right to do it. Try not to fight." In such situations, the shny agrees (Turkey did not even agree), and at least simply remains unpunished, or he realizes that the ambal will not do anything and bluntly knocks down the student's grandfather. And it would be leaked if the hulk said that you did not right, and if a student piles on you, then he will do the right thing.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 27 November 2015 15: 44 New
        +1
        Georgia was not in NATO - it was an armpit of NATO.
        1. dr.Bo
          dr.Bo 27 November 2015 15: 50 New
          +3
          Quote: Vadim237
          Georgia was not in NATO - it was an armpit of NATO.

          Rather, in the groin area at 4m0, it was! (Speech about the manual of course) negative
        2. Uncle VasyaSayapin
          Uncle VasyaSayapin 27 November 2015 16: 16 New
          0
          Georgia, of course, is a small country, and Georgians themselves are usually low. But so that it’s direct not even under some kind of person, but under the mouse in general, this is in my bust.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 27 November 2015 17: 02 New
            0
            Under the mouse and fleas are found.
        3. Spnsr
          Spnsr 27 November 2015 16: 38 New
          0
          Quote: Vadim237
          Georgia was not in NATO - it was an armpit of NATO.

          belay and that nata has a mouse belay wassat
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 27 November 2015 16: 57 New
            0
            Yes, armpit in the mouse.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. The comment was deleted.
    3. andj61
      andj61 27 November 2015 15: 32 New
      +4
      Quote: hedgehog in the fog
      Russia's patience is not unlimited, but the fact that the Turks were in NATO, and Georgia was in NATO, and so what? helped them fagots 8.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX ??

      Georgia was not in NATO, but was just about to be. Now this is not even a question.
      And we do not need a conflict with Turkey, but a conflict personally with Erdogan after his art is inevitable. So Turkey will not be merged as an ally, but only Erdogan. And by the way, now everyone is interested in this, including the United States - he has his position on Kurds and Islamists across his throat, and Europe - the problem with refugees - is the work of Erdogan to a very large extent.
    4. Denis Obukhov
      Denis Obukhov 27 November 2015 15: 32 New
      +7
      Undoubtedly, the United States is the main puppeteer of all this and they have a lot of possibilities in store where Russia can be drawn into the war, except for those mentioned in the article - Transnistria, Nagorno-Karabakh, Central Asia and others. Therefore, of course, you will have to respond to provocations, but you need to create problems for the United States itself so that it has less opportunity to create problems for Russia and other countries.
      1. Al_oriso
        Al_oriso 27 November 2015 16: 16 New
        0
        The USA is strong in strategy, they can lay out cards. We need a trick in addition to accurate calculation. This is our strength.
    5. Tatarus
      Tatarus 27 November 2015 15: 32 New
      0
      [quote = sever.56] Something you mixed up ... Georgia has never been to NATO [/ quote]

      [quote = Alex240Magnitka] Georgia was not in NATO! [/ quote]

      [quote = hedgehog in the fog]
      So out of the fog that Georgia, that Turkey ... laughing
    6. vkl-47
      vkl-47 27 November 2015 15: 39 New
      +1
      we all know this. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan warned Russia against “games with fire” and said that Ankara was not satisfied with Moscow’s attempts to transfer the dispute due to the downed bomber to other areas of relations.

      He also called unacceptable commentary by Russian President Vladimir Putin after meeting with French leader Francois Hollande on Thursday, the Reuters microblog on Twitter said.

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      Erdogan said that he could talk with Russian President Vladimir Putin at the summit in Paris on November 30.
      Following talks with a French counterpart, Putin criticized a US-led coalition in connection with the attack on the Russian Su-24.
      1. win
        win 28 November 2015 19: 26 New
        +3
        Erdogan said that he could talk with Russian President Vladimir Putin at the summit in Paris on November 30.


        Erdogan will be allocated 17 seconds
    7. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 27 November 2015 15: 40 New
      +1
      Georgia has never been to NATO, and will not be, as long as there are disputed areas on its territory.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. win
        win 28 November 2015 19: 37 New
        +2
        Georgia has never been to NATO, and will not be, as long as there are disputed areas on its territory.


        Everything flows, everything changes...

        Example: Ukraine does not want to pay Russian debt 3 billion
        According to the rules of the IMF, it is impossible to give her further loans and it is necessary to declare default.
        But the IMF finds some loophole and continue to lend to Ukraine.
        In the Montreux Treaty on the Bosporus and Dardanelles, some loopholes and Turkey may close the straits for Russia.
        In the case of Georgia, they will also find loopholes.
    8. shooter18
      shooter18 27 November 2015 15: 46 New
      +1
      Erdogan is fighting for power, the Americans are holding him by the balls, by bribing the moderate opposition within Turkey which, at the direction of the Amers, will immediately go to Ankara Square (which we have already seen) .. plus the igil attacks in Ankara and Erdogan chooses power ...
    9. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 27 November 2015 15: 50 New
      +1
      Quote: hedgehog in the fog
      Russia’s patience is not unlimited, but the fact that the Turks were in NATO, and Georgia was in NATO, so what? helped them fagots 8.08.08 ??

      Georgia has never been to NATO. Therefore, Russia reacted very quickly to the Georgian attack on the Russian contingent of troops in South Ossetia and even walked through the territory of Georgia with red-hot iron in revenge for the attack. A little bit to Tbilisi did not reach.
      1. AUL
        AUL 27 November 2015 16: 05 New
        +7
        Do not hope that NATO, in which case, will merge the Turks. Hearing about this is an element of information warfare, strategic misinformation. Mattresses desperately need Russia to get bogged down in some kind of war, to ditch our economy and eliminate a competitor on the world stage. So I wish our leadership enough wisdom, so that without a proper answer such bl..stvo is not left, and the interests of the state are not infringed!
        1. Uncle VasyaSayapin
          Uncle VasyaSayapin 27 November 2015 16: 32 New
          +1
          To merge then she would merge. But this drain will cost us dearly. The defeat of Turkey is bloody and expensive. The occupation of Turkey is also not a simple thing. Just bomb them? Help the US create Kurdistan under their protectorate? RF all this is completely unnecessary. The Russian Federation is drawn into a conflict that we do not need. And Putin will not get drawn into it. Therefore, I think Putin is angry. Erdogan himself or his son, who trades with ISIS, could give a good answer. I think they’ll come up with something.
          1. Serhio
            Serhio 27 November 2015 17: 52 New
            0
            Russia doesn’t need a war with Turkey, but it’s impossible to leave it unpunished. That means the answer must be symmetrical, that is, one or two Turkish planes must be shot down as part of the defense of Russian aviation. I think sooner or later this opportunity will present itself.
    10. Constructor1
      Constructor1 27 November 2015 16: 02 New
      +1
      Of course, the assessments of the Russian president, who called Ankara's actions "a stab in the back" and the Russian Foreign Minister, who accused Turkey of aiding terrorists, are unprecedentedly harsh for modern Russia and oblige to take concrete measures. But so that the measures are not beneficial to your enemies, we still need to figure out who and why framed Erdogan.

      That's it to the point!

      And by the way, the question of backfill, which country has a favorite game to provoke with airplanes? The answer is clear.
      1. Seal
        Seal 28 November 2015 10: 10 New
        0
        It would still be nice to figure it out, and who actually in this situation steered by the Americans themselves? Whose lobby is the second (after the Jewish) in terms of influence in the USA? But it is precisely these gentlemen from the second most influential lobby in the United States who were extremely concerned about Turkey’s rapprochement with Russia, which has taken place in recent years.
    11. gjv
      gjv 27 November 2015 16: 09 New
      +9
      Quote: hedgehog in the fog
      Russia’s patience is not unlimited, but the fact that the Turks were in NATO, and Georgia was in NATO, so what?

      The patience of Russia is truly limitless. In the liberal search for benefits, have the Government, the Federation Council and the State Duma gone too far? What did you think going towards rapprochement with Turkey?
      An honest Russian Armenian Semyon Baghdasarov back in 2010 warned that Erdogan was leading Turkey to a fascist Islamist dictatorship.

      Why didn’t you listen to a knowledgeable person ?! Now we have a multifaceted problem !!! From a military point of view, Turkey is by no means Georgia, even without NATO. What simple and effective answer, besides open war, is possible under such conditions ?!
      1. ancient
        ancient 27 November 2015 16: 30 New
        +2
        Quote: gjv
        Why didn’t you listen to a knowledgeable person?


        Is he ... "a member of the Ozero cooperative"? Or is it included in the "circle of friends and close to ..." to listen to him? wassat (sarcasm wink )
        + from me drinks
      2. kit-kat
        kit-kat 27 November 2015 16: 59 New
        +2
        I thought that no one brought to these shiny faces a real state of affairs. It turns out there are people. Thanks to Bogdasarov. Just the same, do not itch. They take something bad instantly, good, useful decisions either do not find implementation, or they are implemented extremely slowly. It is a crime.
      3. Seal
        Seal 28 November 2015 10: 08 New
        0
        Well yes, this one speaks from a professional point of view. A state in which the titular nation in one way or another has survived all the non-titular and now the percentage of titular in it is approaching 99% - is this not a Nazi state in fact?

        Still need to see who actually in this situation steers the Americans themselves? Whose lobby is the second (after the Jewish) in terms of influence in the USA? But it is precisely these gentlemen from the second most influential lobby in the United States who were extremely concerned about Turkey’s rapprochement with Russia, which has taken place in recent years. Which is most explicitly expressed by Mr. Baghdasarov.
    12. 79807420129
      79807420129 27 November 2015 16: 18 New
      +9
      Quote: hedgehog in the fog
      Russia’s patience is not unlimited, but the fact that the Turks were in NATO, and Georgia was in NATO, so what? helped them fagots 8.08.08 ??

      You were mistaken, hot guys from the country of mandarins, with their whole Georgian soul, have been eager for NATO for the second decade, but they are not allowed in, by the way, in the EU too.
    13. Nick
      Nick 27 November 2015 16: 19 New
      +1
      Quote: hedgehog in the fog
      Russian patience is not unlimited,

      Not infinite, but enough to not rush headlong into the set traps
    14. varov14
      varov14 27 November 2015 16: 28 New
      +4
      You have to fight with a cold head, but inside the country there are so many "well-wishers" that when you watch TV, you are taken aback. There is a mess in the ranks.
    15. max702
      max702 27 November 2015 16: 39 New
      +3
      I would have delayed saying that NATO turned its back on Turkey ... No! Everything is really just beginning .. Now "the truth is on the side of Russia, she is a victim and so on, that's why everywhere a neutral tone of comments with a predominance of sympathy sounds BUT! As soon as we shoot down the Turkish plane, everything will change dramatically! We will immediately turn into an aggressor, now it is simple they are waiting for this, knowing perfectly well that we can’t not shoot down a Turkish plane, it’s just a matter of time .. And then the "victim" of aggression will receive everything he needs, both military support and information .. the whole question is, are we able to give an intelligible answer with ordinary funds? Do we have enough military, material and human resources? As you correctly noted, the response to our activity will be at least from two sides from Ukraine and Turkey, and it is possible that in Central Asia it will blaze .. Everything will be done to tear our attention and resources. Now we are doing everything correctly, we are taking out tourists, we are building up a military presence, we are pressing economically. The best way out for us would be the headErdogan (resignation thereof), but this is very unlikely, since those who started it will not allow it. So we look how it all can end? Everything is heading towards a protracted conflict in very uncomfortable conditions for us, and whether we will win it, I still think, given the "economic" bloc that is, it will not be possible to do this now. It seems to me that the puppeteers have considered and calculated all the answers from our side that there are economic, military and, accordingly, there are options for decisions that are beneficial to them. Alas, but it looks like we DO NOT SOLVE this situation in ordinary usual ways. fast. There is only one way out, hitting the head with a nuclear club! You say it is very risky and the third world may end! I agree very risky! But other options are even worse, even in the worst case there will be a draw .. no matter how cynical it sounds. We do not consider losing because the darkest options will be a happy ending in comparison with reality, but in case of victory, if we wipe Qatar, CA, and partially Turkey from the face of the earth, showing the whole world that we have steel Faberge, then everything will completely change, yes there will be some whining. there will be menacing statements, BUT no real action will follow! For no one will doubt the answer ALREADY, we have nothing to lose, any other development for us leads to defeat, but they have a completely different picture of special threats in the near future, the question of life and death is not worth it, they just need moderate appetites and can live happily ever after. So, in response, they will not shoot vigorous loaves at us! Nothing .. So I suggest taking a closer look at this option ..
      1. KG_patriot_last
        KG_patriot_last 27 November 2015 17: 19 New
        0
        The war between Russia and Turkey is automatically the Third World War. Opponents of Russia will claim on its territory. And the allies of Russia will pretend to redistribute the current world order and reformat the disputed and Middle Eastern territories.

        I am sure against Turkey without hesitation, together with Russia, Greece will attack Cyprus, the Kurds for independence, Armenia for the border areas.
        Bulgaria and Syria / Iran will be very much in thought.

        And this in turn will involve more and more new countries.
        1. max702
          max702 27 November 2015 20: 53 New
          +2
          In the case of the use of nuclear weapons against Turkey, Qatar, the SA, the opponents will not have any hope of gaining Russian territory, because Russia is capable of destroying any country separately or the entire globe as a whole (by the way, for the same reason, the United States is sleeping quietly) . And it is precisely the fact that Russia applied this argument in a rather local conflict will just confirm the inevitable answer in case of an attack on it .. Accordingly, there can be NO world 3 because of the use of nuclear weapons by Russia .. Opponents perfectly understand the injustice of their actions, and the exceptional compulsion of this application, respectively, will not raise rates, they have something to lose, but we DO NOT!
      2. tolian
        tolian 27 November 2015 21: 29 New
        0
        Max is a provocateur. Kill him.
      3. TOR2
        TOR2 28 November 2015 00: 35 New
        +2
        Yes, you are absolutely right. If briefly now you need to pop out the brains of some kind of mattress mongrel. Nuclear weapons will do just that. Reaped tails I think we will see.
      4. Seal
        Seal 28 November 2015 10: 02 New
        0
        There is only one way out, to shake a nuclear club on the head!

        Well, where in a couple of days there will be a radioactive cloud? In our Crimea and Krasnodar Territory? Thank you very much.
        In Greece, Bulgaria and further in Europe?
        In Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan?
        In Iraq and Iran?
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 17: 58 New
          0
          Quote: Seal
          Well, where in a couple of days there will be a radioactive cloud? In our Crimea and Krasnodar Territory? Thank you very much.
          In Greece, Bulgaria and further in Europe?
          In Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan?
          In Iraq and Iran?

          Yes, a crazy offer at all. Then NATO is guaranteed to strike a preemptive strike against us. The Americans didn’t even dare to beat Vytenam, as did the USSR in Afghanistan at one time.
    16. -kuzmich-
      -kuzmich- 27 November 2015 17: 10 New
      0
      Georgia is not a member of NATO, nor was it. Just a dick.
    17. Airborne Major
      Airborne Major 29 November 2015 18: 18 New
      +1
      Quote: hedgehog in the fog
      and the fact that the Turks in NATO, and Georgia was in NATO, so what?

      You are in fact in a "fog" ... The situation in Georgia was completely different from what we are seeing now. At that moment, Russia did not yet face the problems that we have now. The treasury was full, there were no sanctions, in Ukraine the Maidan was not even planned yet, with NATA everything was almost even.
      Now, everything is much more complicated. The threat of war on two fronts has become more real than ever. And any war, it devours any warring party, right and wrong. People will die and burn the country's material resources. Russia cannot afford such luxury now. The forces are not the same. Another five to seven years is needed, like air. The economy has not yet been mobilized, the army has not undergone modernization and training in new methods of command and control of hostilities. It is clear that there’s still no way to get away from the war, but so far you can do without it, you need to do it. War is the last argument. Moreover, Putin is squeezing everything possible out of this situation.
  2. Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov 27 November 2015 15: 28 New
    +6
    All laid out on the shelves. It turns out that the United States came up with another plug: - either inadequate, Erdogan will leave the stage, or Russia will wash himself and get drawn into the NATO massacre ... Something will work. The US specifically framed Erdyu! But the main goal of the USA is not ISIS and the fight against it, but of course Russia. The main thing is that we have a smart president and he understands this.
    1. padded jacket
      padded jacket 27 November 2015 15: 30 New
      11
      Report from the area of ​​the fall of the downed Su-24
    2. Alexey-74
      Alexey-74 27 November 2015 15: 51 New
      +4
      You still have to play the Turkish gambit .... but the author is right, this will not end there. Striped will constantly look for weaknesses around Russia, but there are enough of them .... it is necessary to strengthen the army and navy
      1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Asadullah
      Asadullah 27 November 2015 15: 59 New
      +9
      The US specifically framed Erdyu!


      Yes, no one set him up, this is one arba on which they all sit, and Uncle Sam chases. It was interesting what Russia would do? In my opinion, the main mistake of Russia, in its flirting with Turkey. The end of the USSR, under the leadership of the CPSU, was adopted as a victory for the bright capitalist tomorrow. This is the most idiotic error yesterday and today. And probably tomorrow. There is no capitalism; there is a struggle for domination by any means. And Russia took capitalism at face value and introduced it as a calculated asset of diplomacy. There is no such thing. There is the Machiavelli principle. For twenty years, Ukraine has masturbated an oligarchic causal place, masturbated. Now 15 years doing the same with Turkey. As a result? Maybe it's time to stop?
    4. 1976AG
      1976AG 27 November 2015 16: 02 New
      0
      And the plug is actually not bad. In the light of Erdogan’s recent statements, it turns out that his Air Force has the right to invade Syria (and if they have the right, they will certainly invade). If we do not react (knock down), we will not ensure security for our forces, which is unacceptable. And if we shoot down - practically a war, he trumpeted too much about retaliatory actions to reverse. That is a dilemma.
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 27 November 2015 16: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: 1976AG
        And if we shoot down - practically a war, he trumpeted too much about retaliatory actions to reverse. That is a dilemma.

        belay What a dilemma they shot down on foreign territory - no questions, everyone in the bathhouse. They won’t climb up themselves, close the bay - you need something more provocative, like our attack on their airfield.
      2. Stanislas
        Stanislas 27 November 2015 17: 20 New
        +3
        Quote: 1976AG
        In the light of Erdogan’s recent statements, it turns out that his Air Force has the right to invade Syria
        Has he yet to declare himself Darth Vader?
    5. SPACE
      SPACE 27 November 2015 16: 20 New
      +2
      The attack on Su-Xnumx by Erdogandon is the highest degree of nonsense, he himself was overexcited by emotions and gave orders or stupid Americans helped by pushing the fool clown under the tanks, in any case it was idiocy of the highest standard and there was no benefit to the Turks here and it never even smelled of it .
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      The US specifically framed Erdyu! But the main goal of the USA is not ISIS and the fight against it, but of course Russia. The main thing is that we have a smart president and he understands this.

      You can’t argue with that.
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      or Russia will wash and get involved in the massacre with NATO

      Everyone is blown away, either individually or NATO and Turkey, and they have no chance against Russia, and even the United States will not help.
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 18: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: SPACE
        Everyone is blown away, either individually or NATO and Turkey, and they have no chance against Russia, and even the United States will not help.
        I wonder what we will do. You, like Ishchenko, forget that we do not have a land border with Turkey, just like with Georgia, and the Georgian army is not like the Turkish, which is the second largest in NATO, after the United States. What are our chances in the war with Turkey? Comparison of the Black Sea Fleet and the Turkish Navy, to begin with. How will we fight at all? Rollers on the Internet and caricatures ?! Erdogan understands this, so his fingers continue to bend. They will clamp our group in Syria and block the straits - that’s the whole war.
  3. serg1970
    serg1970 27 November 2015 15: 29 New
    10
    I do not know. So many versions have already been made up, more or less reasoned, that I personally would prefer to wait for the development of events before leaning towards any.
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 27 November 2015 15: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: serg1970
      I do not know. So many versions have already been made up, more or less reasoned, that I personally would prefer to wait for the development of events before leaning towards any.

      You are the only one who correctly evaluates the situation. How events will unfold - no one knows yet.
      1. Reducer
        Reducer 27 November 2015 16: 29 New
        +1
        There really are more than more versions ... One thing is clear, the Americans will not stop, the situation is too sweet.
        Well, to continue the storyline, it now remains to overwhelm some non-Syrian / Russian aircraft over Syria (after the deployment of the C 400, this is now Russia's area of ​​responsibility). Again, the maritime theme is not covered: the French and Russians are warmed up, everything is on emotions, the ships are standing next to each other - why not be popular here ...
        1. Seal
          Seal 28 November 2015 09: 57 New
          0
          Not covered yet another topic. And who actually in this situation steers the Americans themselves? Whose lobby is the second (after the Jewish) in terms of influence in the USA.
          These gentlemen from the second most influential lobby in the USA were extremely concerned about Turkey’s rapprochement with Russia, which has taken place in recent years.
  4. Vladimir71
    Vladimir71 27 November 2015 15: 30 New
    +4
    You can’t believe the "partners" for this and we grow up understandably the soul has a wide chest for plowing, but in a closet with snakes no one will appreciate this, so it is better to do your job quietly as it was with the beginning of the operation in Syria and forget about all the "partners" around us
  5. venaya
    venaya 27 November 2015 15: 31 New
    +1
    the result is the same. The United States stepped aside and pretended to have nothing to do with it. Erdogan swept over, but it was too late.

    Their main principle: you guys are fighting, and we will receive the gesheft, as usual.
  6. Johnny51
    Johnny51 27 November 2015 15: 34 New
    +4
    It is necessary to accept the sacrifice if Erdogan will consistently pursue this policy ... Do you think he has time and money for this? I doubt it ... Time has always worked AGAINST scumbags. And then, normal people do not store condoms after using them ...
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. OlegLex
    OlegLex 27 November 2015 15: 37 New
    +4
    The fact that we came back in the 2014 year of Turkey to our beloved mazol called Crimea did not doubt either of us or anyone, but we didn’t doubt that we stepped on the eggs of the President’s family and began to bombard oil caravans in the dust Erdoganov’s tartle wasn’t very strong. Now we already live in a different world, now the priorities will change, and probably before the new year Dombas will blaze, although maybe later, it all depends on what kind of response we will throw NATO in the person of Turkey, I don’t take the economy, because in fact Erdogan, like Poroshenko, doesn’t give a damn about his people, but when they lose money it’s hard, so a caravan of weapons multiplied by zero is only the beginning.
    1. 1976AG
      1976AG 27 November 2015 16: 14 New
      +1
      And since Erdogan’s patience is weak, you can expect anything from him, up to an armed conflict (even without NATO support).
    2. Asadullah
      Asadullah 27 November 2015 20: 35 New
      +2
      but the fact that we stepped on the eggs already The family of their president began to bomb dust the oil caravans


      Come on, this is nothing more than an element of the media struggle. Can you really seriously assume that Erdogan’s family is missing something and they will start buying up Igilovskie fillers? laughing This is a feeding trough for the secondary composition of interested parties, for the bureaucratic crowd supporting the election of the ruling party. It was necessary to support, otherwise the new government would suddenly close the feeder ....

      And Erdogan himself is a fabulously rich man, for he has a share in all national projects. Any Turk who was educated before reading newspapers will tell you this. To get dirty yourself with some kind of fuel .... there is someone to do this. To make it clearer, the average lousy seamstress in the suburbs of Istanbul and the store on Lalali has a turnover of fifty lemons green. Acting as an intermediary between IS and "Genel Energy", you will not earn so much. And now you can imagine the state of the Erdogan family, scattered around the world in stocks and other assets ... this is what the Americans are pushing on all world leaders. No wonder they were looking for Putin's secret accounts for four years at the suggestion of Nemtsov ...
      1. OlegLex
        OlegLex 30 November 2015 21: 42 New
        0
        in some languages ​​a rich synonym is greedy. Maybe of course the element of media war in this version is present, but why is Erdogan’s son needing tankers?
  9. DobryAAH
    DobryAAH 27 November 2015 15: 38 New
    +2
    Russian President is harsh but fair
    http://cont.ws/post/154481

    One gets the impression that a scout from the West was arriving. How is the mood in the GDP, is it going to wet it further? Well, reassure, if that. Mol can’t be so wrong with Perdogan wrong. Now they will calm me down, then they will incriminate Ukrainians, 100 people in Russia will be strangled, and immediately reassure them again so that they don’t go to pieces. Then over again, the ship will sink and calm.
  10. Vadim237
    Vadim237 27 November 2015 15: 39 New
    +2
    There is someone to fight against Ukraine, just on the territory of Ukraine - the guys will cope, they have already proved this more than once, but with Turkey everything is many times more complicated.
  11. Tatarus
    Tatarus 27 November 2015 15: 40 New
    0
    Com versions are growing every day. And somewhere in this stream of truth, half-truths, fiction or uncovered lies it is very easy to miss the truth. It feels like we are being overwhelmed with information. That would be to blur eyes and brains for ... crap. This info attack is not verified or not verified information. So I agree

    Quote: serg1970
    So many versions have already been made up, more or less reasoned, that I personally would prefer to wait for the development of events before leaning towards any.


    Probably the most sensible way out. No, who is impatient, then forward to the embrasures. Well, there or at the controls. And then we are flooded with info, we still produce something. The truth is buried behind small "personal truths". IMHOtepy alone around.
    1. Oprychnik
      Oprychnik 27 November 2015 20: 27 New
      0
      It is of course. Better not IMHOepy, but a line of guiding and guiding. And you are the Chief Political Officer.
  12. Mobilized
    Mobilized 27 November 2015 15: 40 New
    +6
    And this crazy guzzling bear on a caricature is the image of Russia ?!

    Where did you divide the previous editorial staff of VO ?! What happens to a resource?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 November 2015 15: 42 New
      0
      A bear is best replaced by a Tiger.
      1. Mobilized
        Mobilized 27 November 2015 15: 50 New
        +1
        better to replace the editor. VO is becoming another resource. Very sorry.
    2. DobryAAH
      DobryAAH 27 November 2015 15: 50 New
      +1
      Where did you see the good bears, and even in this situation? The bear is very angry.
      1. Mobilized
        Mobilized 27 November 2015 16: 08 New
        +1
        on a caricature - degenerate
    3. The comment was deleted.
  13. Alexzora
    Alexzora 27 November 2015 15: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: hedgehog in the fog
    Georgia was in NATO and what

    Georgia was not in NATO, not when. but Turkey, not only is it a member of NATO, is also the most active and combat-capable member of this organization.
    Well, as for the "victim", the only most anemic "victim" for us is the disbandment of the armies of the couch, and the granting of at least some real powers to the GDP.
  14. Neophyte
    Neophyte 27 November 2015 15: 44 New
    +1
    An accurate analysis! However, giving weapons to the Kurds is simply necessary, through the government
    Syria, which will strengthen its political status and the confidence of the Kurds. It would be nice, behind the scenes
    to support Greece, Cyprus and Armenia for the liberation of the land occupied by the Ottomans! The union of Turkey and Ukraine is unlikely, since difficult times are coming in Ukraine.
  15. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 27 November 2015 15: 44 New
    +1
    If you wrap the facts on your finger and continue to pick it, you can go far in reasoning. Only Ukraine is not capable of fighting at all because of the lack of everything! But Turkey is not able to resist alone, because Russia is far away and Russia itself will not organize great tank and land battles there. There are military facilities that are destroyed by high-precision weapons, which we already have in abundance (there will definitely be enough for Turkey), after which the country will be able to do real damage. Another question is whether the United States will directly harness? This will depend on many factors.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 November 2015 15: 50 New
      -3
      We cannot deal with ISIS like militants, but all about the war with Turkey, as they go and went to Turkey - only now they are doing this in small groups of cars of 10-20 with their headlights turned off.
      1. 1976AG
        1976AG 27 November 2015 16: 28 New
        +4
        We are not the ISIS fighters, but the Syrians have not yet managed, because the territory is considered occupied (liberated) only when it was occupied by infantry. And the infantry must be Syrian. From the air we only help. And judging by the fact that the emaciated Syrian army is advancing, we are doing it quite well !!!
  16. Starik72
    Starik72 27 November 2015 15: 45 New
    +2
    I fully agree with the author of the article. Very thoughtfully and competently, everything was explained and sorted out, even I didn’t have any questions about a simple layman. Thanks to the author, and more of such explanatory articles here in VO.
    1. Seal
      Seal 28 November 2015 09: 54 New
      +1
      There is really some kind of homespun truth in this. Especially, considering the degree of influence in the USA, the lobby is in second place (after the Jewish one).
      These gentlemen from the second most influential lobby in the USA were extremely concerned about Turkey’s rapprochement with Russia, which has taken place in recent years.
  17. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 27 November 2015 15: 45 New
    +4
    Erdogan's result was exactly the opposite of what was expected. He thought that NATO would "fit in" for him and start fighting with Russia. So he was mistaken for almost two centuries. The first defense of Sevastopol, when the United Europe fought on the side of Turkey, forever discouraged the desire to fight with Russia.
  18. Humpty
    Humpty 27 November 2015 15: 46 New
    +4
    The last 7 years, all who organized armed provocations against Russia as a result had territorial losses.
  19. dojjdik
    dojjdik 27 November 2015 15: 47 New
    +1
    yes no, no matter how we were told that Ukrainians are fierce enemies to fight with us, we will not be any destructive and full-blown war with the Ukrainian people as if the Jews did not want this; another thing is Turkey - a state completely alien to us constantly and in everything supporting Israel and Saudi Arabia in the hope of overthrowing the legitimate president of Syria; an experiment with Iraq conducted by these countries will fail; therefore, with Turkey we will fight with Israel and with the sheikhs
  20. Vik66
    Vik66 27 November 2015 15: 47 New
    +1
    But this question: no one wondered what happened to the body of a downed pilot? Where is it? No one is looking for? It would be nice if only the body of the Hero could be returned to their homeland and buried humanly with honors!
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 November 2015 15: 57 New
      0
      I have exactly the same question - can this pilot repeat the fate of the fact that he disappeared in Georgia in 2008 - he was never found.
  21. Oprychnik
    Oprychnik 27 November 2015 15: 47 New
    +1
    Rostik, as always, lived up to my expectations. A lot of verbal diarrhea at the beginning, and the essence, as always, in the last 2 phrases:
    "If Erdogan and Poroshenko manage to agree on concerted action, then the US dream may become a reality - Russia will face the prospect of being simultaneously drawn into a military conflict with Ukraine and the NATO state (Turkey)." Fashingtong dreamer ...
  22. MT266
    MT266 27 November 2015 15: 51 New
    +1
    I also did not understand what kind of picture for the article and why it ????
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. Bepdukt
    Bepdukt 27 November 2015 15: 51 New
    0
    See how the conflict is settled, like Erdogan tried to reach Putin after 8 hours, but he couldn’t, either the explosives didn’t have money on the phone, or they didn’t take Erdogan in the basement in the bunker. What should I call it? Says Peskov!
  25. ermak.sidorov
    ermak.sidorov 27 November 2015 15: 51 New
    +2
    The author seriously and interestingly surprised!
    But it really costs the staffers nothing to "push Turkey there to maintain the combustion temperature" of the Middle East boiler. Territory, neighbors, army, nationalities, nationalism, Islamism, megalomania and almost no brains - in this situation, Turkey can blaze for a long time and with high quality. And it is very promising to use Syria and the Russian Federation and the Kurds and the Islamic State (etc., etc.) as a source of ignition and maintenance of combustion. As the saying goes: "Burn, burn it is clear - so that it does not go out!" Considering the resources and internal complexity of Turkey, it may last for a very long time. This is how they are - Western portners wassat

    I do not agree with the author only on the account of Ukrainian-Turkish vise. It seems to me that if ukrovoyaki decide to start a steep mess again (I mean the end of the summer of 2014), our current situation will crush this yellow-blue circus in a matter of days using MLRS and front-line aviation.

    And the Turks can be dragged directly and indirectly for a long time and in a multidisciplinary manner - Syria, Iran, Armenia, Ayzerbajan, Iraq, etc. and everything will be indirectly or directly a good "heartburn" for the Russian Federation.
    1. ancient
      ancient 27 November 2015 16: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: ermak.sidorov
      It seems to me that if ukrovoyaki decide to start a steep mess again (I mean the end of the summer of 2014), our current situation will crush this yellow-blue circus in a matter of days using MLRS and front-line aviation.


      FORGET about it finally ... THEM has .. "colleagues and partners" together with .. "brotherly people" recourse
    2. Seal
      Seal 28 November 2015 09: 52 New
      0
      Especially, considering the degree of influence in the USA, the lobby is in the second (after the Jewish) place.
      These gentlemen from the second most influential lobby in the USA were extremely concerned about Turkey’s rapprochement with Russia, which has taken place in recent years.
  26. cap
    cap 27 November 2015 15: 52 New
    +1
    Quote: Vadim237
    Georgia was not in NATO - it was an armpit of NATO.

    But they didn’t guess. Under the tail! laughing
  27. Landwarrior
    Landwarrior 27 November 2015 15: 53 New
    0
    A typo is cool laughing
  28. mmmsoc
    mmmsoc 27 November 2015 15: 55 New
    0
    The Turks were waiting for approval from the States, but they simply "threw"
  29. Denis DV
    Denis DV 27 November 2015 15: 56 New
    +1
    Something like a NATO hop company reminds. They sent a petty thug to provoke a fight, and there, as it happens, they will either rob or assert themselves.
  30. slaw14
    slaw14 27 November 2015 15: 58 New
    0
    Erdogan chased two birds with one stone - Russian gas and IG oil. Greed failed left with nothing. strike on a plane - revenge for lost oil tanks after the destruction of oil storage tanks and convoys to our aerospace forces in Syria captured by his friends from the IS
  31. Bepdukt
    Bepdukt 27 November 2015 15: 59 New
    0
    For me, a duck I draw an analogy, 41 years-not to shoot is a provocation, 2015 not to shoot is a provocation, then what? I’m mentally ready, but for my daughter and son for what? Do not you think that in the May region the beginning?
  32. marna
    marna 27 November 2015 16: 03 New
    0
    A very balanced analysis, as always in Ischenko's articles. Everything is just beginning, there is no need to spoil the fever, all movements should be thought out not even ten, but one hundred steps forward. Very serious things are really at stake.
  33. Starik72
    Starik72 27 November 2015 16: 05 New
    0
    Wow, even for such an offensive comment they put a minus, as if to get acquainted with this person - AU where YOU are.
    1. ancient
      ancient 27 November 2015 16: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: Starik72
      Wow, even for such an offensive comment they put a minus, as if to get acquainted with this person - AU where YOU are.


      I didn’t minus you, but .. I’ll try to justify it .. this minus wink

      Most likely the "answer" is hidden in your second sentence. wink , because there are no words in it, in my opinion, in my vision or just .. I liked it .. and there is a comparison ... what if for me .. just the average man everything is clear, then for everyone else ... it's generally .. AXIOM , and between the lines (and if not, it means you do not even reach the level of the layman) wassat
      And this is an insult to the personnel or resembles "dill" .. "if you don't jump, then you ...."
      So minus you, in my opinion, got deservedly! soldier

      I personally did not like the conclusion of the article at all .. everything is "smooth and streamlined" according to the principle, if grandmothers had one subject, then she would be .. a grandfather " lol
      Yours faithfully, drinks
    2. Oprychnik
      Oprychnik 27 November 2015 21: 12 New
      0
      Why hide. I put it to you minus. I would like you to shake off the noodles from your ears. And not thoughtlessly admired the author, who has a stone in his bosom.
  34. ava09
    ava09 27 November 2015 16: 07 New
    +2
    (C) Now we are talking about the fact that the United States, in an attempt to draw Russia into a war unfavorable for it, is ready to sacrifice its allies from the EU and NATO. (C)
    I would like to clarify: the United States is creating NATO allies precisely with the goal of selling them in the future at the moment when it will be possible to get a price for them on the global geopolitical exchange that suits the world financial mafia. Without exception, all "allies" of the United States, before them Great Britain, ended badly if they did not understand in time that they were just a bargaining chip, a bargaining chip at the right time.
  35. solovey
    solovey 27 November 2015 16: 12 New
    +1
    It seems that the Americans do not live behind a puddle but on another planet !!! After Poplar, nobody will need anything !!!
  36. saltickov.
    saltickov. 27 November 2015 16: 12 New
    +1
    Well, that the bear brand is untwisted, let them be afraid, I personally do not mind.
  37. NordUral
    NordUral 27 November 2015 16: 14 New
    +4
    The more I live, the more curses on the vile soul of an insignificant person who, for us, become an unhappy fate at the head of the USSR. So that he and the whole rotten top of the Union of that time will be cursed forever.
  38. LINKor55
    LINKor55 27 November 2015 16: 36 New
    0
    Yes, the last conclusion is very relevant. I also see the situation that the GRK "Moscow" has been withdrawn from the Black Sea region to Syria, Ukraine sighed a little more calmly from this, and Turkey's actions made it so that it would hardly be possible to go back (although it is impossible under international law, but nobody is provocative) canceled - they will substitute fishing and tourist boats under the board - that's the reason for the accusations).
    I agree with the author that this is a continuation of the promotion of the conflict in Ukraine and the blocking of Russia in the Black Sea (I will add the likelihood of the resumption of the Transnistrian conflict).
    It is necessary to take out citizens from Turkey and prepare the Black Sea Fleet.
  39. Alcoholic
    Alcoholic 27 November 2015 16: 48 New
    +1
    All versions are good.
    Can be forgiven: stupidity and greed wassat
  40. Aleks_good
    Aleks_good 27 November 2015 17: 43 New
    0
    Turkey ordered 100pcs f35

    Of course they will not be delivered tomorrow, but what to do with them in a similar situation in 10 years?

    Does the S-400 to f35 work? And at what distance? They seem to be visible only to ancient radars up to 100 km ...
  41. Russia
    Russia 27 November 2015 18: 30 New
    0
    The United States is sacrificing more and more of its allies.

    In one phrase, the whole essence of US politics!
    So in turn "allies"! Don't push!
  42. Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 27 November 2015 19: 07 New
    -1
    I can still believe that the professional operators of the Turkish media accidentally found themselves in a place from which they could best attack the Russian bomber and accidentally aimed their lenses at the right point, at the right moment. Anything can happen.
    there is no moment of attack on the video
  43. UZBEK TASHKENT
    UZBEK TASHKENT 27 November 2015 19: 37 New
    +4
    Hara whine bzduny liberal. The war with Turkey is not the beginning of World War 3 if you give poplar and really not only in the Turks, but also in sa and Qatar. This is the only effective way to show who is actually steel. Whining will be unconditional, but is it really not enough without it? If we remain silent for a long time and move away from the inevitable, we get exactly one more outskirts issue, several St. Petersburg charters, dozens of dryers and many, many power lines, well, and a bunch more ... on. They would give into the embryo, would not now fall on such problems. No need to be afraid of mongrels, do your job and preferably without the back - to the end!
  44. cormorant
    cormorant 27 November 2015 19: 39 New
    0
    I do not agree that NATO has turned its back on Turkey. They pretend that Turkey is easy prey for us. And as soon as the war breaks out, they will gather a coalition and immediately remember all their duties. Although, of course, if Turkey’s allies fit in, it’s clear that the batch will go in an adult way. Little will not seem to anyone.
  45. Bayun
    Bayun 27 November 2015 19: 42 New
    +1
    Reading about 15 years ago the prophecies about the war in Syria, I wondered where our people came from: I was thinking nonsense. And it came true. There was also information that China would bring up an army of almost a million to the Middle East, and we would again burn German (!) Tanks near Smolensk. The alignment of the allies will be as follows: Russia-Great Britain-France-China, and against the USA-Germany-Turkey-Israel. I perfectly understand that such a trash on the Web is a wagon and a small cart. But in fact, England and France are ALREADY not opposed to acting at the same time with us, and the Turks, despite all the benefits, are opponents. In the same article, the use of tactical nuclear weapons was predicted, but who and by whom is not clear. Later, we came across altered options: from the capture of Constantinople by us, to our defeat from the use by opponents of 2 real German "wunderwafels", non-lethal sleep gas and beam weapons.
  46. wiwa
    wiwa 27 November 2015 20: 08 New
    +1
    the war will be sooner or tomorrow, even if you don’t go to your grandmother, because the Russians are constantly trying to run away from her - the whole world takes it for weakness, and for the weak that in the yard, which in politics quickly tilt ... a big mistake of the gdp, in my opinion that accumulates problems, but does not solve as they arise ....
    with su24 shot down, I think that this is a trap masterfully put by Putin for the Turks, because they will no longer be able to fly over Syria, plus Turkey is an accomplice of terrorists, and Russia is a victim, plus s400 legalization, which means they will do their trousers while flying over Syria. ..
  47. gammipapa
    gammipapa 27 November 2015 21: 21 New
    0
    Absolutely true, just a golden phrase from comments - The question is not who is stronger, but who goes to the end.
  48. Woodman
    Woodman 27 November 2015 21: 56 New
    0
    I did not quite understand from the article why the states should substitute one of their strongest allies ... Erdogan, of course, is unpredictable and obstinate, but in my opinion there is no special sense in randomizing this territory ... If the chaos in Turkey had begun before the entry of Russia in the fight against the igil, it would be clear there - it would be done to create a caliphate ... Now there will be no benefit to the states from the collapse of Turkey, so I suppose the purpose of the provocation was not in a direct military clash between Russia and Turkey ... More likely unsuccessful ( because the plane was shot down in the sky over Syria) an attempt to create a certain information background for pressure on Russia ...
    1. Seal
      Seal 28 November 2015 09: 50 New
      0
      And yet there is some kind of homespun truth in this. Especially, considering the degree of influence in the USA, the lobby is in the second (after the Jewish) place.
      These gentlemen from the second most influential lobby in the USA were extremely concerned about Turkey’s rapprochement with Russia, which has taken place in recent years.
    2. 1536
      1536 28 November 2015 22: 32 New
      0
      Everything is simpler, dear. If we have a real military conflict with the Turks, I assure you that the Americans will immediately introduce their fleet with a pair of aircraft carriers into the Black Sea on a permanent basis, block the Crimea and our fleet, including in Novorossiysk, the Black Sea straits, the Montreux doctrine will be lowered into the latrine of their destroyer D. Cook and will be the sovereign masters of the situation in the Black Sea region and the Mediterranean and Marmara seas. And God created the Turks so that by their stupidity they would contribute to solving the problems of intelligent peoples, such as the British, for example.
  49. tehnokrat
    tehnokrat 27 November 2015 22: 40 New
    +3
    And in my opinion, everything is simpler: pushing Turkey to a conflict with us, the SGA is not in any way in any way:
    the war does not flare up, so unexpected for all and unwanted for them will just end
    rapprochement between Russia and Turkey. "Turkish Stream" kirdyk, the dispute over the straits is back on the agenda,
    so the revival of our Black Sea Fleet on the basis of the Crimea they lost is depreciating.
    Or here's a sharper script:
    Already on the net are suggestions of Turkey’s exclusion from NATO. It’s clear to get involved
    do not want; want us and Turkey to blaze. Erdogan, realizing that they are throwing him, freaks out,
    substitute for the S-400 or something else soak, a million ways, and away we go: we
    pay off something! It turns out that he needs to hurry, start a mess before they kicked out of NATO.
    Or maybe they are rushing him with these threats? The SGA has run out of time, it’s necessary to burn the debt somehow!
    And the French aircraft carrier (by the way, it is somehow strange after the "Mistrals" Hollande flared up to us ...),
    and Fritz somewhere on the way, albeit a little, but still - just where they will be.
    It remains to shut the Bosphorus, and not to leave the battle.
  50. Koldunja
    Koldunja 27 November 2015 22: 52 New
    +3
    There will be no war with the Turks - it hurts a lot of honor. But we’ll punish them with a ruble. And we wanted to spit on their apologies (that is, the absence thereof). The time of the Luzhkov and Ismailovs has long gone.
    1. Zhiharka
      Zhiharka 29 November 2015 15: 47 New
      0
      They will not punish them, but read us "Products may rise in price due to anti-Turkish sanctions"
      Rest has already been banned, now prices will rise, which was required to prove. All this is a rigged realistic performance so that you and I do not relax. It’s necessary to raise prices like that, etc., here you are !!!