Military Review

Offensively, Turkey Su-24 involving the United States and Saudi Arabia

214
Offensively, Turkey Su-24 involving the United States and Saudi Arabia



Interview of a military expert, a regular contributor to the magazine Arsenal of the Fatherland, a specialist in the field of application of the Military Space Forces, Aleksey Leonkov

Alexey Petrovich, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin called the unprovoked attack of a Turkish fighter on a Russian plane, returning to base after an attack on the positions of ISIS, "backstab." Do you agree with this assessment?

How can you argue with the president? Only it seems to me that he, in addition to the commonly used meaning of this phrase, he had in mind an additional meaning. The analysis shows that the attack on the Su-24М2 of the Russian HQs was pre-planned by Turkey and its military partners. In this case, we are already talking about the operation "Backstab."

Indeed, our plane was waited in ambush by Turkish interceptors, a sabotage and reconnaissance group disguised as local Turkomans was located on the ground, the CNN and FOX crews were delivered in advance ...

This is only tactical support for the finale. The operation itself began much earlier. Throughout the entire period of the operation of the Russian air forces, the intelligence of NATO countries was not idle. Behind our actions aviation constant monitoring was carried out by means of space, air and ground reconnaissance. The attack itself involved several reconnaissance and targeting systems - at least 3, as well as two F-16s with the latest AIM-9X missiles.

How it all happened?

US Air Force plane Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS took off on November 24 from Preveza airbase in Greece. The second E-3A Saudi Air Force took off from the Riyadh airbase. Both aircraft performed one common task - determining the exact location of the aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Force. They chose the "victim".

The American E-3A was to determine the mode of operation of the radar control weapons Su-24М2 aircraft, to check whether it is in a state of search or has already completed the capture and accompanies the target, generating data for firing. It is known that AWACS can control the actions of aviation in combat and transmit information to the BREO and PNK aircraft for combat operations.

That is, to determine how defenseless our plane?

It turns out that yes. As is known, Su-24М2 returned from a mission, and his NCP worked in the “navigation” mode together with GLONASS, he went to the base and was not preparing for action. E-3 all the time passed detailed information about the Su-24М2 pair of Turkish patrol F-16CJ. This aircraft is specially produced for Turkey. Its feature is the presence of a computer that controls the new radar AN / APG-68 and performs the role of the second pilot-navigator.

But this information is not enough to enter the high-speed target. I used something else?

Indeed, the accuracy of the F-16CJ fighter aircraft was additionally provided by the Patriot US air defense systems deployed in Turkey, or rather their multifunctional AN / MPQ-53 radar. Patriot air defense system can work with E-3 and MENTOR electronic intelligence satellites, it is possible that the Geosat satellite also participated in the satellite constellation.
The flight path of the F-16CJ indicates a high-precision triangulation target: a pair of E-3A plus a Patriot radar system plus geostationary SAR satellite MENTOR and, possibly, the Geosat satellite.

At the same time, E-3 gave directions to where our plane was in the air, determined its flight level, speed, weapon control status, the Patriot radar, together with the MENTOR radio-electronic reconnaissance satellite, provided Su-24М2 radio telemetry relative to the surface - that is, it gave the exact predicted appearance sector aircraft relative to the mountainous terrain.

It turns out that Turkish fighter exactly know where our plane waiting in ambush?

Of course. The F-16CJ went into the launch area and, from a distance of 4-6 kilometers, it almost at all ((!)) Launched an AIM-9X Sidewinder air-to-air missile into the rear hemisphere of the Russian bomber. At the same time, the AN / APG-68 radar of the fighter launched the missile operated in the target illumination mode: it turned on at the moment of launch and turned off after the rocket confidently captured and hit the target.

I did our pilots the ability to save the plane?

No. Chance to avoid defeat crew Sioux 24M2 were zero.
Against the rocket AIM-9X with a new matrix infrared homing head, which forms an image of the target in the infrared range and is insensitive to heat traps, Su-24М2 does not have countermeasures. His countermeasures: the SSE-15 radar irradiation warning station, the LOE-82 radar radiation warning station, the SPS-161 active jamming station, and the APP-50 false thermal target ejection device cannot confront the new rocket AIM-9X.

And if there was support for the fighters?

Now it will be. Of course, the tragedy could have been prevented by a couple of Su-30CM, which are equipped with the Khibiny-U armored military unit. But no one expected a stab in the back from an ally, much less warned about the details of the operation by our partner.

Do you mean “American partners”, the very ones who own the “Patriots” and “Avaksy”, as well as satellites, possibly involved in the operation?

Yes, with a high degree of probability. No Turkey's own capacity for such meticulous and very precise work. And do not forget about the second E-3, assigned to the Air Force KSA. The whole scenario quite fleeting, the score went to second.

Is everything went so smoothly?

The Turks still made a mistake, because of which the provocation was not entirely successful. F-16CJ came out to be defeated late in 2 minutes when Su-24М2 left the area of ​​the disputed 68-kilometer territory in the north of Syria (it took 1,5 minutes to reach its maximum). The F-16CJ “to defeat” command was not canceled, so the launch of the missiles was made a little further than the calculated point. This confirms that the shooting of the Su-24М2 fall was planned both from the territory of Syria and from the territory of Turkey, however, the “Syrian” shots are more detailed. It seems that it saved our navigator. He was able to go to the "Zelenka" and wait there for the search party.

Interviewed expert of the Commission on Security MHD Dmitry Efimov
Originator:
http://regnum.ru/news/polit/2021108.html
214 comments
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  1. Baikonur
    Baikonur 27 November 2015 14: 31 New
    107
    Absolutely immediately said this! AND MANY IT UNDERSTAND, KNOW, FEATH!
    Kherdogan could not (he is just a dirty performer, b ...) to break the chain of command of SsnAto!
    Especially, it is already known to ALL WHO KNOWS that it was C P L A N I R O B A N O!
    EVERYTHING! DID EXPRESSLY KNOW, BUT DON'T REALLY SPEAK THAT - PLANNING IS ONLY ANGLO.USA.КrySY!!!
    1. Denis Obukhov
      Denis Obukhov 27 November 2015 14: 33 New
      87
      Hmm .... It seems like it was. No wonder the Americans screamed that our planes would fall. This is how Turkey set up the priest for the pleasure of the United States. But it seems they miscalculated again. As in Ukraine, apparently there were plans to drag us into the war in full, and Putin, as usual, broke the game for them all. He took and closed the whole sky over Syria without succumbing to provocation.
      1. Major Yurik
        Major Yurik 27 November 2015 14: 46 New
        18
        It is very embarrassing that for the long first hours after the tragedy, all the media and the Defense Ministry said that the SU was shot down by ground-based air defense systems! Only then, when the Turkonoids recognized the f-16 attack, did the info already come about that. Something is not clear how, with objective control, you can confuse the way to destroy your aircraft? There are fewer questions and answers, the meanness of the turbans is obvious, but the truth is somewhere nearby! hi
        1. Temples
          Temples 27 November 2015 14: 56 New
          14
          It is very embarrassing that for the long first hours after the tragedy, all the media and the Defense Ministry said that the SU was shot down by ground-based air defense systems! Only then, when the Turkonoids recognized the f-16 attack, did the info already come about that. It’s not clear how, with objective control, you can confuse the way to destroy your plane

          Everything is explainable here.
          Control is not the media.
          The media can only say what they are told.
          The media are just repeaters.
          Here, as they say with a tongue, grind not turn bags.
          And the Moscow Region says what it considers necessary at one time or another.
          MoD is responsible for the country's security.
          1. aktanir
            aktanir 27 November 2015 15: 37 New
            +7
            NATO was worried about the appearance of the latest missiles, against which our old, albeit modernized, bombers can not oppose anything. I hope that we are not behind in these rocket technologies and our su-30cm and others have something to answer for the second case
            1. Throw
              Throw 27 November 2015 16: 17 New
              27
              military expert, permanent author of the journal Arsenal of the Fatherland, a specialist in the field of the use of the Military Space Forces, Alexei Leonkov

              Expert wide in profile on non-existent troops laughing

              How did he determine from the couch a type of rocket that even pilots did not detect? Did he get turbanoid debris?

              To direct a fighter at a target, it is enough to give a command center from one source, from the ground or from another fighter, and not to raise an aerospace brigade into the air, otherwise such fighters are needed.
              And while doing a bunch of extra witnesses!
              Brad.
              "Xpert" has forgotten only "Death Star" to drag to the heap .. am

              And why would a fighter turn on a radar "for illumination" if the rocket, from the words "application specialist", with a heat head ??
              Infrared radar on f16? Shaitanama ...
              Moreover, the drying navigator said that irradiation, except for ground-based radars, was not recorded.
              But iksperdy do not read interviews, but they themselves give them ..


              In general, an empty article with a cosyrological darling, to talk and talk smart words and abbreviations ..
              negative
              1. Temples
                Temples 27 November 2015 16: 35 New
                +9
                Darn!!!
                I’ve broken it off, but I’m getting a grasp of it, trying to struggle with contractions! crying
                1. Throw
                  Throw 27 November 2015 16: 52 New
                  +4
                  Such iksperds themselves do not understand them, so on the couch they are invincible! bully
                2. Throw
                  Throw 27 November 2015 22: 02 New
                  0
                  By the way, for abbreviations of 24 systems here, for example, you can read http://aviation.gb7.ru/Su-24.htm
              2. igorka357
                igorka357 28 November 2015 03: 26 New
                +1
                I also read and was surprised ..))) I didn’t want to write anything, but I’ll support you .. I’ll really be an “expert”, well, everyone is chasing a sensation and wants to be an expert !!!
                1. GYGOLA
                  GYGOLA 30 November 2015 11: 08 New
                  0
                  But no one expected a stab in the back from an ally, all the more warned about the details of the operation by our partner.
                  Putin knew whose business (oil refineries, transport) we were bombing (G-20 statement), he just did not expect Erdogan to dare to let him go such a “bream.” Analysts didn’t seem to work, emotions were boiling during an interview with the king of Jordan -that means I didn’t expect, or blinding by "star disease", in any case, the result is only on hand. The crew commander and the Marine died ... Eternal memory. The hero was appropriated, given courage, families will not leave, everything was closed, we could have foreseen and warn, but what is the result of this price, the sky is completely under the gun, we fly only , Assad on the spot, in Syria, the IG has nothing to do - the base in Libya has been created.
              3. Allend
                Allend 28 November 2015 20: 50 New
                +7
                The task was not just to bring down, but to bring down at the indicated point, and so that our plane crashes on Turkish territory, and given the short distances and high speeds, all this needed to be used ... The Turks simply went around.
                And do not be clever about empty articles.
                1. go21zd45few
                  go21zd45few 29 November 2015 08: 39 New
                  +1
                  Yes, the article is not correct. Why do we need F16, if in order to bring down one bomber with a modern rocket, it is necessary to use almost half of the US aerospace forces. And then to the author that they reported from the Pentagon which missile they would shoot down, and even so on, the missiles were laid out. Vobschem shallows Emelya your week.
            2. Alexanast
              Alexanast 27 November 2015 16: 48 New
              25
              Yes, not rockets. A bomber, even equipped with air-to-air missiles, is not enough to oppose the fighter. And the mattress and the utur knew very well that our bombers were working without cover, which is why this provocation became possible. If would were in the sky would Su-30, I think our "partners" were unlikely to take such a step. Too much, we trusted these crap. I hope the last time.
            3. zvereok
              zvereok 29 November 2015 15: 37 New
              +1
              There is only one good thing in this story - at the time of the plane’s crash, both pilots remained alive and were able to eject, which in itself is not bad. Figs with her with a bird - the lives of pilots are important, which for many years - to teach and learn.
          2. ancient
            ancient 27 November 2015 17: 10 New
            19
            Quote: Temples
            And the Moscow Region says what it considers necessary at one time or another.
            MoD is responsible for the country's security.


            Well, "right," and what else should the MO have to say .. that they were sitting on the CP and calmly watching how the Avaxes rise, how the Patriot works, how the F-16s hang in the zone ... and WHAT?
            After all, we signed .. a "piece of paper" and we told them all the flight plans and navigation calculations FULLY .. like they did everything belay
            And now ... yes ... we know ... here they are some kind of ..... and here we understand .. again we flew to the air darts, but here is the WAR? belay

            And for the expert, “Mak-ul” should have reacted to a rocket (its thermal trail, “Birch .. if it wasn’t turned off .... both Avax and Patriot would“ shine ”(both with sound and course LEDs).
            To shoot at the LTC in one gulp and try to leave with a coup ... the altitude allowed .. speed all the more ...- the angle of attack, the pedal and the RUS all the way and the rus on themselves .. MG engines .... there might be a chance recourse

            Well, the "definition of Avaxam .." operating mode "" PNK "..... this is nonsense ... how is it, this mode can affect the safety of the Su-24M? And if the" work "is carried out on LTPS? wink And what if with SVP-24?
            In general, the expert "heard the ringing, but does not know where he is."

            And P.S. when I was still under a different Nick wrote (it was a long time ago) that the modernization of the Su-24M is good .. even the "flawed Hussar" is good..but that .. that as it was not there is no BKO, but what there is ... this .. "complacency" and for the Papuans it’s just going to go and that .. not for everyone .. for that I got all the titles- "white pillar, fifth column .. well, etc ... and the State Department .. forgot. "
            True Samoilovich, who was categorically against "Gardenia" and "Geranium" .. by the way, and Simonov supported him in this (even at the design stages), but ... The party said it was necessary and the person answered there recourse

            Quote: Temples
            MoD is responsible for the country's security.


            And for the safe personnel not ...? belay Although what is the correct security of personnel when you talk about the "security of the whole country" belay
            1. Black Colonel
              Black Colonel 27 November 2015 18: 04 New
              +5
              Hi friend!
              It seems to me that for the AIM-9X at a distance of 6 km, the SU-24 had no chance, because the pilots did not expect such a trick. If they were on the alert, then of course the chance was possible. I wonder why the "Birch" did not work (if it worked, then of course, there would already be some sort of suspicion of flight safety).
              1. ancient
                ancient 27 November 2015 21: 09 New
                11
                Quote: Black Colonel
                Hi friend!


                Yes, they are very harmful .. that the "Siren", that the "Birch" ... "shine" like New Year trees, and on the "ears go so" that .. "Rita .. rests" .. but you can’t turn off Rita, because lifted the front desk on the take-off run and that's it ... it turned on automatically, but not here .. only in the On-Off itself.
                And it is located ... like a "thorn ... right in the center of the dashboard" .. you have all the instruments (indicators) for monitoring the operation of the engines and the "state" of the arms of the navigator, the "machine" considers .. and here .... "New Year Tree "... well ... not an ale recourse

                It is on M




                It is on M2



                Of course, the chances are scanty ... but it was possible to try ... if you react ... otherwise I read Bondarev’s report now, and there ... yes, we saw, but they reported with the Syrian Air Defense Command. that in the zone there is also ... so which ...... fighters did not send there for ..... at least for that ... "Schaub Bulo?" request
                And then .. beautiful schemes for "parsing"
                1. Secta
                  Secta haki 27 November 2015 22: 04 New
                  +3
                  If the sidewinder is matrix, then it is already, as it were, not the sidewinder, there are systems for suppressing and withdrawing matrix IR missiles.
                  1. Saburov
                    Saburov 29 November 2015 18: 25 New
                    +1
                    IR STRs or Missile Attack Warning Systems (SPRAs), which have functions completely identical to STRs, already exist. When installed on an airplane, they warn the pilot about the approach of a rocket. IR sensor or detects heat (IR energy) emitted by the rocket during launch; or during the active phase of its flight (when the engine is running. Approx. translator); or detects thermal heating of the hull caused by rocket friction in the atmosphere. Such an early warning allows the pilot to perform an appropriate anti-aircraft maneuver, shoot infrared traps or turn on infrared systems to affect the flight path of a rocket if it has infrared guidance. Such jamming devices or misleading missiles with infrared seekers are based on new concepts, such as laser radiation, which can damage or even burn out the infrared sensor. Another IRCM method is to heat a special membrane with a combustible material emitting infrared energy modulated according to a special law. In other systems, propane gas or arc lamps burned in special containers are used to generate infrared energy affecting the infrared seeker rockets.
                    During the Yom Kippur War, the application of IR-false targets brought significant success. To remove missiles from the infrared seeker, pyrotechnic devices were thrown or fired: infrared pyro ammunition and traps that generated significantly more energy than the target they protected, but with the same infrared parameters. A completely new area of ​​electronic warfare has opened.
        2. WKS
          WKS 27 November 2015 15: 56 New
          +5
          The main question for today with no clear answer is - Why? And for what? Tear down the Russian operation in Syria or drag it even further into this conflict? What did you want to have at the exit? To embroil Russia with Turkey? But why then did the Turks participate in this?
          1. Temples
            Temples 27 November 2015 17: 18 New
            10
            There is another feature.
            If you look wider. For centuries, so to speak.
            That picture is interesting. The Russian Empire and the Ottoman (Ottoman) Empire reign in vast territories.
            Over the past 200 years, it is these empires that have been built up and are willing to be cut further.
            But the cutters have not changed !!!
            And the foreheads of the Russians with the Turks are pushed by the same cutters that earlier, now.
            Modern fires are going on in the territories of these empires - Ukraine, Syria (hello Israel!) Egypt and neighbors
        3. dr. sem
          dr. sem 28 November 2015 12: 23 New
          +2
          This does not bother me ... The Moscow oligarchic elite was in prostration. That's all. Just arrogant Saxons once again this "fed" elite poi .. m ... ate ...
          1. _GSVG_
            _GSVG_ 30 November 2015 11: 49 New
            +1
            I think that it’s time for Vladimirich to take over the skills of a mentor Vissarionovich, I mean the struggle with the oligarchs and the OPA., And the age is suitable and experience, and the situevroznu 1 / 6 of the land has not changed at all since the time of Tsar Ivan the Grzon, all creatures want to rob us and destroy.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Proxima
        Proxima 27 November 2015 14: 49 New
        +9
        I think that retribution for this clinical psycho (Erdogan) will definitely come. This is not forgiven !!! What is it about, the plane crashed in Syria. He was shot down bypassing all kinds of international law, without warning, etc. etc. Everything else (17 seconds over Turkish territory) is an unproven excuse that smells of cheapness per kilometer.
        1. _GSVG_
          _GSVG_ 30 November 2015 11: 56 New
          0
          It’s a ride to Kherdagan, the heads of state are not killed from the outside, it’s been so long ago that Russia will put pressure, maybe Turkey has been living on the map for the last years.
          Geopolitics is a matter of centuries, see the actions of the Nuggosaxes.
      4. mitrich
        mitrich 27 November 2015 14: 51 New
        16
        ... He took and closed the whole sky over Syria without succumbing to provocation.

        Do not confuse anything? I think the sky is closed to the Turks, and the "coalition" will fly, unfortunately. We will not begin to shoot down amerovsky, frog or british gliders? This is a confrontation with everyone.
        And the Turks, when flying into the sky of Syria must be brought down. And, if possible, to "close" the sky with electronic warfare, so that, you bastards, would know less.
        1. Rus2012
          27 November 2015 15: 56 New
          +5
          Quote: mitrich
          I think the sky is closed to the Turks, and the "coalition" will fly, unfortunately. We will not begin to shoot down amerovsky, frog or british gliders?

          Entering С400 and “Fort” / “300” “Moscow” databases onto the DB - almost the entire sky over Syria is closed.

          Firstly, a “no-fly zone” for all is declared over Syria! For someone to fly, they will have to declare: where, why, for what purpose? Those. application procedure. Moreover, the "master of heaven" can refuse the petitioner without explanation. Point.
          Secondly, everything that is illegitimate will go astray. Those. not contacted, not identified ...
          1. mitrich
            mitrich 28 November 2015 00: 52 New
            +3
            Do not you think that the Americans will score on our "no-fly zone"? And they won’t coordinate anything. And we will bring them down ??? I doubt it. This is not what we need.
            1. _GSVG_
              _GSVG_ 30 November 2015 11: 44 New
              0
              do not score, piss.
          2. Marconi41
            Marconi41 28 November 2015 01: 11 New
            +4
            Quote: Rus2012
            Entering С400 and “Fort” / “300” “Moscow” databases onto the DB - almost the entire sky over Syria is closed.

            I do not think so. S-400 shoots far, of course, but nobody canceled the physics. TTD S-400 to which all refer in range - this is detection under ideal conditions, i.e. in the open field. In Russia, there are early warning stations that also issue TsU, but in Syria, what? When flying Turks at low altitudes, “Moscow” is unlikely to detect targets on its own. Who will give her target designation? The A-50 could help here, but unfortunately they are not in Syria.
            1. _GSVG_
              _GSVG_ 30 November 2015 11: 59 New
              0
              Probably there will be a-50, not all the same in the General Staff of the Ministry of Defense as Shoigu, I hope there are staff officers and just military generals with a military and not an emergency education.
          3. igorka357
            igorka357 28 November 2015 03: 35 New
            +5
            Do not tell the sky of Syria "fort" of Moscow with its 90km ... I agree on the S-400 .. partly ..))
        2. _GSVG_
          _GSVG_ 30 November 2015 11: 45 New
          0
          the coalition will now fly only with our permission and 3x multiple notice, "well, how do these crazy evil Russians shy away from us"
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. Yuriy3005
        Yuriy3005 27 November 2015 15: 08 New
        27
        One gets the impression that our special services knew about the impending provocation, there were signals about it, but they were ignored, spoiled or knowingly?
        From the beginning of our operation in Syria, the Turks were becoming more aggressive and boorish, and we signed papers with the Yusovites ... it looks like a multi-level game of the special services - we gave them the bait, they swallowed it to the very stomach. Yes, 2 people, a plane and a helicopter, were lost from our side, but ... But now, without any protests from the states, Israel and Europe, we are deploying the S-400, completely extinguishing the Basmachi in the areas bordering the Turks, giving the Syrians the opportunity to restore full control on the border with Turkey. Yes, plus internal contradictions among the "allies" in NATO ... And this is the minimum that is already known at the moment, but how much is hidden from our eyes?
        1. V. Salama
          V. Salama 27 November 2015 15: 33 New
          +6
          Quote: Yuri3005
          One gets the impression that our special services knew about the impending provocation, there were signals about it, but they were ignored, spoiled or knowingly?

          And what does our special services have to do with it? Reading our media, any citizen knows that the Turkish special services also financed terrorists in Chechnya; that Turkey, as a member of NATO and the sixth United States, makes money on terrorism, treats and restores wounded militants in its hospitals; She dreams of restoring the Ottoman Empire, has rolled her lips to our Crimea and is doing subversive work there, sleeping and seeing where to harm Russia. Part of its elite plan to transform the country from a secular to an Islamic state. That Turkey wants to overthrow Assad, divide Syria and seize part of its territory ...
          Quote: Yuri3005
          ... how much more is hidden from our eyes?
          Well, yes, what else needs to be opened so that the eyes open?
          Here, only one thing is not clear - how did we think of substituting a back for such an “ally”?
          Quote: Yuri3005
          ... ignored, spoiled, or knowingly?

          Unconsciously, damn it ...
          1. V. Salama
            V. Salama 29 November 2015 11: 03 New
            +1
            PS I looked at how they vote and wonder - are there really so many naive people?
            But now we are deploying the S-400 without any protests from the states, Israel and Europe ...
            In this, does someone believe that "without protests"? Yes, their anger for a thousand miles is felt. These "protests" have not yet begun. Now the "second front" will be raining down ... It was already, we know what we are striving for. And this is at best.
        2. OlegLex
          OlegLex 27 November 2015 15: 48 New
          0
          Perhaps I will agree with you, it seems very similar, the fact of rewarding the deceased pilot fits very well into this hypothesis, our guys clearly knew that such a strike was possible.
          1. Vita vko
            Vita vko 27 November 2015 16: 14 New
            +2
            All the same, you need to deal not only with the Turks, but also with our intelligence and management of the General Staff of the Russian Federation:
            Firstly, just a day before the advent, Turkey tried to bring the issue of bombing the border territories to the UN Security Council.
            Secondly, this is not the first incident, and after several short-term violations of the border with Turkey, Erdogan warned that he would bring down Russian planes.
            And most importantly, the destruction of the oil industry of the IG VSK, which according to media reports is directly connected with Erdogan’s son, simply could not remain unanswered.
            Now, the facts of radar reconnaissance about the pallets of American and Saudi E-3 DRLOs, which are clearly not intended to provide attacks on ground targets, are still surfacing.
            In addition, there is little faith in coincidence, the approach of the aircraft carrier de Gaulle exactly one day before the strike on the Su-24. Obviously, he also took part, maybe in the dark they used to take off flight tasks from the dispatch control system.
            It is hard to believe that naive people are sitting in the General Staff of the Russian Federation, unable to predict the danger level for a single Su-24 when approaching the Turkish border. Our guys were obviously framed.
            1. V. Salama
              V. Salama 28 November 2015 13: 48 New
              +6
              Quote: Vita VKO
              All the same, you need to deal not only with the Turks, but also with our intelligence and management of the General Staff of the Russian Federation: ...

              My opinion is that there is no reason to blame our intelligence in this case. She gives the necessary information. It seems that the leadership has not yet been ill with the liberalism of the 90s, when they already know that the strategic concept of the West is unshakable - to survive due to the destruction of Russia and that they do not need our (homegrown) elite, but still believe that they can get on an equal footing in this club, demonstrate openness and trust. When you know that black is black, but you believe that it is white and, on the basis of these ideas, you make important decisions, then this is akin to cretinism. Therefore, it turns out in Chernomyrdinsky - they wanted the best, but it turned out - on the same rake.
              1. shamil
                shamil 28 November 2015 21: 28 New
                +4
                I agree. Many still do not believe in the vile essence of the West. I hear the French for a coalition with Russia. Yes, the main thing for them is to find someone who will protect them and present victory on a silver platter. And the Turks were framed using the corrupt Erdogan, the servant of the gentlemen of the bankers. Again hurt the future, a guarantee against the creation of a friendly union of Russia and Turkey, which would be death similar to the West.
                1. V. Salama
                  V. Salama 29 November 2015 10: 35 New
                  +1
                  Quote: shamil
                  I hear the French for a coalition with Russia. Yes, the main thing for them ...

                  This is a tactic to protect their national interests, and they have a common strategy. Why then, at the last meeting with the guarantor, Hollande continued to sing the Amerian mantra: "Assad must be removed." Having done this, a chain of events will start sharply increasing the risks for Russia, and they all understand this very well.
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        3. dgiguli1962
          dgiguli1962 27 November 2015 18: 15 New
          -2
          Absolutely to the point!
        4. _GSVG_
          _GSVG_ 30 November 2015 12: 10 New
          0
          One gets the impression that our special services knew about the impending provocation, there were signals about it, but they were ignored, spoiled or knowingly?

          Develops.
          One gets the feeling that the navigator is not real, otherwise it makes sense to hide the hero’s face in an interview with reporters when it is said to the whole country and the whole world who they are our Russian pilots?
          But if the downing of our “drying” is that pebble that will be thrown off Everest to create a gigantic avalanche, I hope for the purposes that Russia needs, then do not care who the navigator is there, and how beautifully they talk about his salvation, I think it is necessary to the Ministry of Culture, this animal is similar to the Ministry of Education, but close up quickly spectacular kina about salvation.
          I’m not sure that the navigator is alive, but I sincerely worry and sympathize with the family of our pilots and our marine.
          They rest in peace. "There is such a profession - to defend the homeland" (C) They defended our country.
      7. dr. sem
        dr. sem 28 November 2015 12: 20 New
        0
        It is very likely that if the GDP continues to break the game so much, then you can forget about the Russian Federation as a country ....
        Constantly "dodging a blow" is impossible. The twirl will break.
        It seems that not the GDP of the “game breaks”, but the arrogant Saxons are twisting Russia as they want ....
      8. zelenii75
        zelenii75 29 November 2015 18: 12 New
        0
        Oh, guys, I’m afraid to crap! ... Look, there’s a lot of enthusiasm for the “flights” of the States and others like them (like England)! It didn’t work out in Ukraine, it didn’t bother with Syria either, Turkey went like that for herself ... Do pawns donate to us in some kind of cunning game? Well, okay, the States are defective by nature, but Germany, England are also bili? request
    2. 79807420129
      79807420129 27 November 2015 14: 36 New
      24
      Quote: Baikonur
      He said it right away!

      You didn’t say this one year, star-striped ears stick out of all the cracks, Erdogan was just a wit, immediately rushed to hide under the skirt of NATO. Yes, and now the arrogant Saxons will push Erdogan again to some dirty trick.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 27 November 2015 14: 45 New
        15
        Quote: 79807420129
        Yes, and now arrogant Saxons will push Erdogan again to some sort of dirty trick.

        An ideal option for them is to drag Turkey and Russia into the war with conventional weapons, but ... without official and direct support from NATO. Then the war will be exhausting and costly for both sides, and the Turks will also be able to profitably sell weapons.
      2. demo
        demo 27 November 2015 15: 13 New
        18
        Erdogan has a business in oil, weapons, refugees.
        And the black guy knows about this business. And some more.
        Try and refuse to fulfill the requirement?
        They will instantly voice, arrest accounts, accuse of aiding terrorism, etc.
        Well?
        What will you do?
        That is the whole independence of both Turkey and Erdogan.
        The US paw holds everyone by the throat tightly.
        And here we dreamed about the sunset of the hegemon.
        We will have to roll it more than one decade.
        Unless God helps.
        1. Luga
          Luga 27 November 2015 16: 15 New
          0
          Quote: demo
          Erdogan has a business in oil, weapons, refugees.
          etc.

          Sound, logical and, very possibly, the way it is. It remains only to find out what is the proportion of drums in this very business.

          And about the "sunset of hegemon" is also correct. The word "sunset" in this case I understand not as a result, but as a process - difficult, lengthy, but pleasant and necessary. And, most importantly, we must remember: there is no such deepest place on earth and in its environs, where one could roll the "hegemon", there will always be even deeper.
        2. unknown
          unknown 28 November 2015 21: 58 New
          0
          According to forecasts, it will be necessary to roll up exactly one decade: until 2025.
    3. Denis Obukhov
      Denis Obukhov 27 November 2015 14: 42 New
      +4
      "This means that the F-16 was waiting for him!" - But not Turkish, F-16, but American from the American air base INSIRLIK, from which it is only 5 minutes of flight from the point where the SU is shot down! That is why "Erdogan discussed with Obama the incident with the downed Russian and apparently Obama promised Erdogan some kind of carrot, for the fact that he would take the incident on himself!
    4. Denis Obukhov
      Denis Obukhov 27 November 2015 14: 52 New
      +5
      Two F-16s with the latest AIM-9X missiles.
      AIM – 9X have been shipped since 2002.
    5. podpolkovnik
      podpolkovnik 27 November 2015 14: 53 New
      17
      Quote: Baikonur
      Absolutely immediately said this! AND MANY IT UNDERSTAND, KNOW, FEATH!
      Kherdogan could not (he is just a dirty performer, b ...) to break the chain of command of SsnAto!
      Especially, it is already known to ALL WHO KNOWS that it was C P L A N I R O B A N O!
      EVERYTHING! DID EXPRESSLY KNOW, BUT DON'T REALLY SPEAK THAT - PLANNING IS ONLY ANGLO.USA.КrySY!!!

      My dear, with something your pompous, vysprennye and pathetic comments remind me of this:
      1. Proxima
        Proxima 27 November 2015 15: 26 New
        +9
        I absolutely agree with Lt. Col. Baikonur technology is simple to primitiveness. At first, he reserves the first post by writing a phrase like “absolutely immediately said about it”, then he adds this post with phrases no more “intellectual”. Personally, I have observed this from Baikonur at least four times. The question is, why does he need this? Get the epaulettes of the generalissimo or "master of the universe"? Dear Baikonur, for whom do you take members of the forum? Such cheap "tricks" of authority obviously do not add to you.
        1. podpolkovnik
          podpolkovnik 27 November 2015 15: 39 New
          +7
          Quote: Proxima
          I absolutely agree with the UNCONTRACTOR. Baikonur technology to the primitive is simple. Initially, he reserves the first post by writing a phrase like "absolutely immediately said this", then appends this post with no more "intellectual" phrases. I have observed this from Baikonur at least four times. The question is, why does he need it? Get epaulets generalissimo or "ruler of the universe"? Dear Baikonur, for whom do you accept the members of the forum? Such cheap "tricks" of authority are obviously not added to you.

          I have been watching for a long time. It became annoying. I'm tired. Spoke out Glad I'm not alone think so
          1. andj61
            andj61 27 November 2015 15: 50 New
            +3
            Quote: podpolkovnik
            I have been watching for a long time. It became annoying. I'm tired. Spoke out Glad I'm not alone think so

            good hi
          2. Bayonet
            Bayonet 27 November 2015 16: 17 New
            +3
            Quote: podpolkovnik
            Glad I'm not the only one to think so

            Support! hi
          3. lis-ik
            lis-ik 27 November 2015 18: 27 New
            +1
            There were a lot of such people on this forum, why they didn’t need to understand it, also tried to fight them before, but having only achieved their known goal, they themselves disappear, so you spit on it.
          4. igorka357
            igorka357 28 November 2015 03: 47 New
            +2
            Well, to you, what’s up to his rating, well, if a person wants to achieve anything in life, the toad presses you ... I don’t care at all whether I’m a general or a mummy ... I like IN my patriotic orientation and information, I’m I’m not hiding it, and your title is also absolutely on the drum ... you need to achieve titles in life .. and you put it up here, you can answer why .. I doubt it very much!
        2. moL4yn
          moL4yn 27 November 2015 18: 46 New
          0
          But why? Look at the number of advantages, everything works. But the normal comments from this comrade really was not noticed.
          1. podpolkovnik
            podpolkovnik 27 November 2015 19: 10 New
            +3
            Quote: moL4yn
            But why? Look at the number of advantages, everything works. But the normal comments from this comrade really was not noticed.

            Thank you all for your support! hi good
            A comrade is trying to “butt” with me in a personal, but somehow he does it unconvincingly ... already ridiculously ... Shows me a violation of subordination, they say, I reprimanded an equal in rank before the formation ... I patztalom .... lol
            In my opinion, he has something with a psyche. fool
            1. shamil
              shamil 28 November 2015 21: 35 New
              +1
              Do you have personal scores or some points? The man spoke clearly, in all the handwriting of the Anglo-Saxons. And I have the same opinion. But what you are leading to is not clear.
    6. Yars
      Yars 27 November 2015 14: 59 New
      +4
      Quote: Baikonur
      Absolutely immediately said this! AND MANY IT UNDERSTAND, KNOW, FEATH!
      Kherdogan could not (he is just a dirty performer, b ...) to break the chain of command of SsnAto!
      Especially, it is already known to ALL WHO KNOWS that it was C P L A N I R O B A N O!
      EVERYTHING! DID EXPRESSLY KNOW, BUT DON'T REALLY SPEAK THAT - PLANNING IS ONLY ANGLO.USA.КrySY!!!

      I agree, the Turks themselves would not dare to do this!
    7. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 November 2015 14: 59 New
      0
      Most likely, the “Sultan” acted alone, at its discretion, but NATO and the United States remained unaware of the action.
      1. shamil
        shamil 28 November 2015 21: 37 New
        0
        Yeah, keep your pocket wider. And when they found out the words, they didn’t find them? Yes, everything comes from the United States.
    8. Vend
      Vend 27 November 2015 15: 02 New
      +3
      Quote: Baikonur
      AND MUCH UNDERSTAND IT, KNOW, FEEL!

      And I am most pleased that the citizens of Russia reacted with a single impulse. And the traitors and liberals subsided.
    9. Fregate
      Fregate 27 November 2015 15: 03 New
      +1
      I’m thinking if the Yankees are behind this and they were waiting for certain retaliatory actions from Russia and did not wait for them. Then they can arrange another provocation, but with a Turkish plane. "Land" him in Turkey and dump on us.
    10. vkl-47
      vkl-47 27 November 2015 15: 05 New
      +2
      Here, for this, KRET made a lever. With this IR system turned on, the missile head cannot capture the target. For future electronic warfare. Such systems must be put on all missions then the antivirus will have to use only the directional gun
      1. Fregate
        Fregate 27 November 2015 15: 09 New
        0
        Here, for this, KRET made a lever. With this IR system turned on, the missile head cannot capture the target. For future electronic warfare. Such systems must be put on all missions then the antivirus will have to use only the directional gun

        I'm not special and I'm interested. How electronic warfare systems can place a missile with an infrared seeker, which is aimed at heat, and not at a reflected radio beam.
        1. aleks 62 next
          aleks 62 next 27 November 2015 15: 28 New
          +5
          .... I'm not special and I'm interested. How can electronic warfare systems place a missile with an infrared seeker, which is aimed at heat, and not at the reflected radio beam ....

          ... Visit it then it will be visited ..... But it will not fly ... With a high degree of probability ... laughing ... As far as I know, there are several types of fuses on the rocket: remote - on the early types it was optical, now it’s radio (it works when flying near the target and not more than a certain distance) and usually contact, self-destructive (well, if it misses, so that head did not fall laughing ) ..... And you can work on a radio fuse at a certain distance (i.e., undermine a warhead missile at a certain safe distance) .... This is the whole trick .... By the way, such a system fights perfectly with MLRS (large caliber) missiles ) .... There usually is a radio fuse (triggered above the surface of the earth) ..... Somehow on Zvezda there was a film about the operation of such a system .... The spectacle is impressive - when MLRS shells exploded high in the air ... .. hi
        2. Rus2012
          27 November 2015 16: 06 New
          +4
          Quote: Fregate
          How electronic warfare equipment can place a missile with infrared seeker

          ... there are special sources of IR generators. The emission spectrum of which is comparable with aircraft engines. The intensity is even higher so that the motors do not shine in the "shadow" of such generators. The generators have a pulse signal with a special algorithm for changing the duty cycle and frequency. This ensures that they "drive crazy" IR-GOS missiles.

          An example of a pulsating infrared jammer ALQ-144 "Hot Brick" on the fuselage of the aircraft OV-10D "Bronco"
          1. Manul
            Manul 27 November 2015 18: 09 New
            +1
            Quote: Rus2012
            ... there are special sources of IR generators. The emission spectrum of which is comparable with aircraft engines. The intensity is even higher so that the motors do not shine in the "shadow" of such generators. The generators have a pulse signal with a special algorithm for changing the duty cycle and frequency. This ensures that they "drive crazy" IR-GOS missiles.

            Well, so it is with “them.” And we have something like that and why planes that are participating in hostilities in modern times are not equipped with this ..
            1. Rus2012
              27 November 2015 23: 41 New
              0
              Quote: Manul
              Well, so it’s with “them.” And we have something like that and why planes are not equipped with this

              there is a complex "President-S" - http://nevskii-bastion.ru/president-s/
              and something else.
              Why not installed? We didn’t have time ... and it wasn’t supposed to meet the AIM-9X with the new matrix infrared homing head.

              In general, the topic is closed ...
              1. Manul
                Manul 28 November 2015 00: 12 New
                +1
                Quote: Rus2012
                Why not installed? We didn’t have time ... and it wasn’t supposed to meet the AIM-9X with the new matrix infrared homing head.

                It is clear that it was not intended. But the planes are sort of modernized. and from the latest modifications I want all the possible improvements that are possible. Especially when it comes to security.
            2. igorka357
              igorka357 28 November 2015 03: 50 New
              +1
              The time is modern .. but L / A ...?
      2. Manul
        Manul 27 November 2015 15: 49 New
        +1
        Quote: vkl-47
        Here, for this, KRET made a lever. With this IR system turned on, the missile head cannot capture the target. For future electronic warfare. Such systems must be put on all the heels.

        "Lever" is the Mi-8. It is the helicopter that must be present in the zone of the alleged military operations. It is hardly possible to place such a system even on a bomb, not to mention fighter jets. But of course, some means of counteraction must urgently be developed. Or I hope they are already being developed.
        1. Rus2012
          27 November 2015 16: 14 New
          +3
          Quote: Manul
          Or I hope they are already being developed.

          IR jammers were already at the end of the Afghan company. They were put on attack aircraft. It was possible for the bombers.
    11. Sashka
      Sashka 27 November 2015 15: 08 New
      +1
      And I'm talking about ... Many wrote here that everyone turned away from Turkey, NATO, the USA, the West, etc. I objected, they stuck with my minuses ... I won’t be surprised if Merkel and Olnad are aware of all this.
      1. Pilot
        Pilot 27 November 2015 17: 08 New
        -2
        Quote: Sashka
        I would not be surprised if Merkel and Olnad are aware of all this.

        I think, Madame Merkel, deep down to pee ..you who you are and hakuyu huh ... yy you are carrying. Sorry for the vulgarity. Something inspired.
    12. Pilot
      Pilot 27 November 2015 15: 16 New
      +8
      Quote: Baikonur
      He said it right away!

      The providence of couch generals and other marshals has always been astounding ... :)
    13. varov14
      varov14 27 November 2015 15: 28 New
      0
      Tsu.ki of course, but how did our “bubble” burst?
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet 27 November 2015 16: 23 New
        +5
        Quote: varov14
        Tsu.ki of course, but how did our “bubble” burst?

        And you believe in fairy bubbles less! It’s all from the haters. hi
    14. FiremamRescueS
      FiremamRescueS 27 November 2015 19: 42 New
      0
      And what, someone had doubts that Edorgan did not plan it in one person?
    15. Maz
      Maz 28 November 2015 14: 04 New
      +2
      Well, now it's our turn to crush this perdogan in a planned way, let's see whose plan is better, but for now Hmm. Recep's hysteria is satisfied. So we are doing everything right
    16. Djubal
      Djubal 28 November 2015 23: 18 New
      0
      Right. Many are now shouting something like “Well, Turkey is now stuck!” ... Turkey is an instrument! It’s the same as someone hit you with a club and you say .. well, you got a club and then ... whoever hit the club doesn’t need to damage you, and you shouldn’t respond to such a blow with the club who hit you with it.
    17. python2a
      python2a 1 December 2015 16: 48 New
      0
      Quite right, the operation to destroy our bomber was carried out under the direct supervision of the Americans. Let the earth burn under their feet!
  2. AdekvatNICK
    AdekvatNICK 27 November 2015 14: 32 New
    11
    In this region, it is rather necessary to make Iran a leader and restore Syria.
    1. vladimirw
      vladimirw 27 November 2015 14: 38 New
      +7
      Iran today seems to be an ally, and tomorrow?
      1. Zai pali
        Zai pali 27 November 2015 14: 43 New
        +4
        Russia has allies in the army and navy. Well and VKS ..
    2. iliya87
      iliya87 27 November 2015 14: 43 New
      +4
      One could agree with you, but there are significant BUT. 1) Iran in the region is not neutral, a number of countries will not talk to them at all, for example, Israel. 2) Iran does not have sufficient military equipment to carry out a similar kind in quality and power of the air operation.
      I would like from Iran more expanded actions on earth in support of Syria, that is what they can implement.
      1. Zai pali
        Zai pali 27 November 2015 15: 21 New
        0
        The question is why do not conduct ground operations. It seemed like there was news about this, but after the death of 2 generals, everything was dry. Looks like the generals are over.
      2. Zai pali
        Zai pali 27 November 2015 15: 22 New
        0
        The question is why do not conduct ground operations. It seemed like there was news about this, but after the death of 2 generals, everything was dry. Looks like the generals are over.
    3. Asadullah
      Asadullah 27 November 2015 14: 54 New
      +5
      need to be a leader Iran


      Iran is a Shiite country, how will you “make” a Shiite leader among Sunnis?

      It is necessary to do the state of Kurdistan. For this, Iran, Iraq and Syria must come to an agreement. The easiest action, with Iraq. In essence, this state does not exist, from which it must be divided into three parts, the Sunni Levant, Iraq, Shiite and Kurdistan. Syria is harder than it should be, it must give up part of the territory de jure. This is possible gradually, first autonomy of Syrian Kurdistan, then an agreement with Iraqi Kurdistan and in the distant future, unification. The most difficult thing with Iran, it will never give up its territories, and the creation of a Kurdish state can create a centrifugal force in the country. Well, the most archaeological thing is to unite the Kurds in such an opportunity. For they will be distorted even at the stage of drawing administrative boundaries. With all this, Turkey will not look at such a "disgrace" and will immediately begin b / d in Iraq. Perhaps in Syria.
  3. DOMINO100
    DOMINO100 27 November 2015 14: 32 New
    +9
    the Russians! learn to punish enemies from israel!
    1. AdekvatNICK
      AdekvatNICK 27 November 2015 14: 34 New
      21
      I would see how your Israel punished enemies if it weren’t for the United States)))
      1. perm23
        perm23 27 November 2015 14: 50 New
        +4
        And what the hell all the time to look at the United States. Let them be afraid, not us. How much is already possible. War is war, and walking bent over and under blows all the time is not life.
    2. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 27 November 2015 14: 38 New
      +5
      Quote: DOMINO100
      the Russians! learn to punish enemies from israel!

      I set it up for you, but by accident .. Well oh well! And you did not think that Israel was also involved there (of course there is no evidence and will not be) And yet .. Look for someone who benefits! hi
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet 27 November 2015 16: 27 New
        0
        Quote: MIKHAN
        And you did not think that Israel was also involved there (of course there is no evidence and will not be) And yet ..

        Well, what without Israel: smile
        - Who the shit?
        - Daughter!
    3. vladimirw
      vladimirw 27 November 2015 14: 39 New
      +3
      mister with the british flag do not engage in provocation
      1. Turkir
        Turkir 27 November 2015 15: 01 New
        +2
        We have many commentators giving out advantages, as it were, "on the run."
        Abroad these enjoys.
    4. Asadullah
      Asadullah 27 November 2015 14: 41 New
      23
      the Russians! learn to punish enemies from israel!


      If Russia were the size of the Oryol province, and it was supported by the most powerful country on Earth, and its enemies would be illiterate demigods armed with flying telegraph poles stuffed with pyroxylin, then you could probably learn. And who to learn from, if the most developed countries of the world come out with all their intellectual and military power against you, using consumables that are the most vile of people?

      It OUR the cross, and our method, and our secrets. It is with this cross that we will punish, and those who wish to study, teach. Method on the forehead.
      1. Kamchatsky
        Kamchatsky 28 November 2015 21: 16 New
        0
        I will not put the pros and cons, I am not a judge, but I can recommend about the punishment - and Svidomo identity will go.
    5. zekaze1980
      zekaze1980 27 November 2015 14: 43 New
      +5
      Jews or Israelis are also behind the Penosians like Turks, so there is nothing to learn there.
    6. NEXUS
      NEXUS 27 November 2015 14: 45 New
      +7
      Quote: DOMINO100
      the Russians! learn to punish enemies from israel!

      Don’t worry, we will punish. At the time when our bomber was shot down, we just had nothing to strike a retaliation against, unfortunately. The VKS group in Syria was equipped and equipped taking into account the fight against ISIS, and not with Turkey, which has both air defense and fighter jets Interceptors in good numbers.
      I believe that following the S-400 it would be necessary to deploy the Iskanders in Syria and at the bases in Armenia so that there would be a ground retaliation strike tool.
      1. roadsmell
        roadsmell 27 November 2015 15: 25 New
        +2
        Everything is not easy with the Armenians - the rooks are understandable, but the Asiks already practice closing corridors for transport aircraft
      2. andj61
        andj61 27 November 2015 15: 55 New
        -1
        Quote: NEXUS
        I believe that following the S-400 it would be necessary to deploy the Iskanders in Syria and at the bases in Armenia so that there would be a ground retaliation strike tool.

        Instead of the Iskanders, it is better to place several fours of the Mig-31 - this is more efficient. And the role of the Iskander can well be performed by Caliber - both from ships in the Caspian Sea and from the Black Sea.
        1. Persistent
          Persistent 27 November 2015 18: 18 New
          -2
          And the role of the Iskander can well be performed by Caliber - both from ships in the Caspian Sea and from the Black Sea.

          And since when did the Caliber become an air-to-air or ground-to-air missile ??? fool
          1. andj61
            andj61 27 November 2015 18: 49 New
            +2
            Quote: Persistent
            And the role of the Iskander can well be performed by Caliber - both from ships in the Caspian Sea and from the Black Sea.

            And since when did the Caliber become an air-to-air or ground-to-air missile ??? fool


            And since when did Iskander become an air-to-air or ground-to-air missile ??? fool
            "Iskander" (the index of the complex is 9K720, according to the classification of the US Defense Ministry and NATO - SS-26 Stone, the English stone) is a family of operational-tactical missile systems (OTRK): Iskander, Iskander-E, Iskander-K, Iskander-M.
            The purpose of the complex.
            Designed for engaging combat units in conventional equipment of small and area targets in the depths of the operational formation of enemy forces. It is suggested that it could be a tactical nuclear weapon delivery vehicle.
            Most likely goals:
            fire weapons (missile systems, multiple launch rocket systems, long-range artillery)
            missile and air defense systems
            airplanes and helicopters at aerodromes
            command posts and communication centers
            critical civilian infrastructure

            And where are the planes in the air? what
            If you do not know what is at stake, then do not say phrases that confirm incompetence!
            1. Persistent
              Persistent 27 November 2015 19: 28 New
              -1
              MIG - 31 and "Iskander" are two different things ... "You are our competent" !!!! fool
              1. andj61
                andj61 27 November 2015 19: 54 New
                +2
                Well, you are even more competent! If I say that it is better to cover the air with the help of the Mig-31 fours - and this is actually a mini-AWACS system, but without the vulnerable exclusively radar component, and instead of Iskanders in Armenia use much more long-range and already available sea-based gauges - then you generally think that the Iskanders are an air defense weapon. And which of us is more competent?
                Do you at least admit that you are wrong and stop bearing the blizzard!
    7. Denis DV
      Denis DV 27 November 2015 14: 46 New
      +3
      But who taught Israel to punish enemies? They grew up on Panfilov’s, and until the teachers surpassed hi
    8. Comrade Bender
      Comrade Bender 27 November 2015 14: 56 New
      +4
      Actually, it was Israel who studied with the USSR how to punish its enemies.
      And my minus for some reason turned into a plus.
    9. Persistent
      Persistent 27 November 2015 15: 00 New
      +1
      the Russians! learn to punish enemies from israel! fool


      "Teacher" does not need to teach us how to teach lesson national minorities. England which in the 40s after the fall of France could not (if Hitler had attacked it) protect itself, will teach the country that buried Adolfica !!!! Funny !!!! laughing fool
      1. Oprychnik
        Oprychnik 27 November 2015 15: 14 New
        0
        DOMINO100
        "! Learn to punish the enemies of Israel!"
        Dominoes - Empty-empty, like a comment.
    10. murking
      murking 27 November 2015 15: 12 New
      +1
      Israel is a minor player whom he can punish there, except for terrorists. When the Turks pressed him, he licked their ass, not to aggravate licking.
  4. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 27 November 2015 14: 32 New
    64
    It has long been clear who planned everything ... Erdogan is a coward by his own nature and is not capable of this on his own initiative! Answer scum for everything!
    1. DmitryU
      DmitryU 27 November 2015 14: 37 New
      40
      so write?
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 27 November 2015 14: 41 New
        +5
        At all write that only on one, laziness? Apologize, so apologize. And on the S-300, S-400 missiles, too, necessarily. Turks, it seems to me how a little time will pass, they will again be instructed to fly over Syria, and then it will be necessary to apologize.
      2. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 27 November 2015 14: 42 New
        +5
        Quote: DmitryU
        so write?

        Right! Bravo great photo! bully
        1. lelikas
          lelikas 27 November 2015 15: 09 New
          +5
          Quote: MIKHAN
          Right! Bravo great photo!

          And this is a second before writing!
    2. vladimirw
      vladimirw 27 November 2015 14: 41 New
      +5
      it's east and backstab east style
      1. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 27 November 2015 15: 01 New
        +4
        Quote: vladimirw
        it's east and backstab east style

        And this is our style ....!
        “The launch complex 3S90E.1 SAM" Shtil-1 "is an innovative development of the company" Start ". One of the advantages of a launcher is its modular construction. The product includes modules of 12 transport launch containers (TPK) with missiles placed vertically below the carrier deck, which significantly reduced the radar visibility of the ship, ”said the resource.

      2. Uncle VasyaSayapin
        Uncle VasyaSayapin 27 November 2015 15: 22 New
        +6
        For us Russians, a stab in the back is through the chest.
        1. sharp-lad
          sharp-lad 27 November 2015 20: 33 New
          +2
          And it’s time to start hitting enemies in Russian in Russian!
  5. sinukvl
    sinukvl 27 November 2015 14: 32 New
    +2
    Someone doubted !!!
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. Sharky
    Sharky 27 November 2015 14: 36 New
    12
    Here, a fairly competent article and interesting. I am not at all surprised that the “partners” planned everything in advance. And Erdogan is only a pawn in this game, so to speak, a performer of dirty work. Well, mu ... to concurrently!
  8. Vladimir71
    Vladimir71 27 November 2015 14: 36 New
    +9
    Putin himself said in an interior view during a meeting with Åland that ours provided data to the pind-wasps where, when and at what height our bombers will be located and it’s not clear that we are all so honest and adhere to agreements with the enemy, whether bad, or both together it's even worse. Honest and evil is always the loser to a smart and mean enemy ...
    1. perm23
      perm23 27 November 2015 14: 51 New
      +2
      All of us want to be honest before this pack, not realizing that these jackals do not need honesty.
      1. Urals
        Urals 27 November 2015 15: 15 New
        +1
        Ours do not want to be honest, they are honest. What you need is a scale, the bear is not ept. hi
    2. An64
      An64 27 November 2015 15: 08 New
      +4
      The article is interesting. But it would not be bad if the author indicated where the real facts are, and where are his assumptions ... I mean theses on space reconnaissance, on the interaction of the Patriot radar and with AWACS.
      And this promise
      But no one expected a stab in the back from an ally, all the more warned about the details of the operation by our partner

      not at all clear. When were the Turks our allies?
      And they didn’t shoot down UAVs? And we didn’t put notes on violation of borders? What are allies?
  9. fox21h
    fox21h 27 November 2015 14: 36 New
    +2
    I think we will repay the debt with interest and I'm not talking about a crushed column, the flowers have not even begun, and the berries will be across the throat to our dear and adored "partners"
  10. Stiletto
    Stiletto 27 November 2015 14: 37 New
    +4
    No one really doubted this, "where the ears grow from." The question now is only to document all the above, so that the aggressor countries could not get out. Well, only then can we reasonably deal with this “coalition” by all means available to us.
    1. TVM - 75
      TVM - 75 27 November 2015 14: 56 New
      +3
      Documents and evidence do not apply to this impudent lads. They admit only one argument - a big fist from acceleration on the forehead!
  11. Engineer
    Engineer 27 November 2015 14: 38 New
    +8
    That is, he said that our air defense and electronic warfare forces in that area did not conduct any monitoring of airspace at all and did not know that two Avax and Petriota radar monitors the airspace over Syria, did not interfere with them, i.e. didn't share anything at all? Signed on our helplessness to close the sky over Syria? Then this is complete sloppiness and the entire leadership of our VKS in Syria must be stopped.
    1. DobryAAH
      DobryAAH 27 November 2015 14: 46 New
      +1
      They say they didn’t expect a blow, they thought that from this side it would not fly. Incorrect assessment of the global situation. Previously, it was believed that the United States was troubled by everything, now - and the rest of the West. Turkey was considered friendly until they got the pitchfork in the side.
      By the way, it’s good that they said about the leadership, we’ll send you to lead.
    2. Stinger
      Stinger 27 November 2015 14: 52 New
      +2
      You are very famously commanding from the couch. Maybe try on the spot?
    3. TVM - 75
      TVM - 75 27 November 2015 14: 57 New
      +1
      The old Jew said: "If I were as smart as my wife later!"
    4. sharp-lad
      sharp-lad 27 November 2015 20: 50 New
      0
      Learn from mistakes! If you remove the command after each error, then you will always have unprepared, error-prone commanders.
  12. Trailer
    Trailer 27 November 2015 14: 38 New
    +7
    So what? And what will ours do now? They didn’t know who was standing behind the 5 militants for years, but here is a sensation.
    1. Comrade Bender
      Comrade Bender 27 November 2015 15: 00 New
      +2
      There are many ways, which or which of them will be involved in the MO will decide for themselves. And there is no sensation, there is a concept of politics. If you do not understand this, then our Foreign Ministry perfectly understands this and implements it if necessary.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 November 2015 15: 18 New
      +3
      There isn’t any sensation. This is most likely a personal initiative to bring down the Su 24 Turkish leadership most likely and spontaneous - to frighten our VKS that it’s not worth flying in that area, to show who dominates the region and graters after this incident with NATO and the USA confirm this.
      1. shamil
        shamil 28 November 2015 22: 03 New
        -1
        This is serious? Turkey threatens Russia? Do not make me laugh! This Erdogan worked out some of his duty to his masters.
  13. Abakan
    Abakan 27 November 2015 14: 40 New
    +2
    as from dill with a Boeing blasphemed, so these cyborgs too hi all west cybogs, flooded the entire Planet, as Lavrov says))
  14. DobryAAH
    DobryAAH 27 November 2015 14: 41 New
    13
    They occupied the heights and it's great!
  15. SAM 5
    SAM 5 27 November 2015 14: 41 New
    +9
    The actions of our aviation were constantly monitored by means of space, air and ground reconnaissance

    And our command before that thought that all do not care why fighter cover. Gross tactical error. There is guilt here and our commanders-leaders.
    1. vladimirw
      vladimirw 27 November 2015 14: 48 New
      +5
      I completely agree, the punishment of terrorists and the punishment of their own gouging should be inevitable
    2. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 27 November 2015 14: 50 New
      11
      Quote: SAM 5
      Gross tactical error.

      It’s hard to judge. Imagine a neighbor n on the landing, a normal guy, you greet him, sometimes even drink, go fishing and repair the car. And one fine morning at the site you say hello to him! And he told you without talking to the right in the nose. It seems that you should be prepared for this, because, theoretically, it was possible. But! Who would have thought. request
      1. Turkir
        Turkir 27 November 2015 15: 06 New
        +5
        Imagine a neighbor on the landing, a normal guy, you greet him, sometimes even drink, go fishing and repair the car.

        As I noticed, you did not include the main thing in the list - you do not know anything about it.
        The result is quite expected.
        As venereologists say, beware of random connections. no
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 27 November 2015 15: 39 New
          +2
          Quote: Turkir
          you don’t know anything about him.

          Well, as with Turkey, in principle.
          Quote: Good AAAH
          Did a neighbor grab a squirrel?

          And who knows, maybe he thought that you and his wife were sleeping.
      2. DobryAAH
        DobryAAH 27 November 2015 15: 13 New
        +1
        Did a neighbor grab a squirrel?
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Shark Lover
        Shark Lover 27 November 2015 15: 21 New
        +8
        I do not agree. Here is not a roommate, here are the whole VKS of the Country, here they must THINK. Here, you don’t even have to think, there are instructions, charters, etc., we must fulfill them. Based on this, I think, or rather, it is possible that everyone knew and saw. Not for nothing, they loudly said that there is not enough cover, we will fly one at a time, and even next to the border. With 400 near by the country of NATO is cool, what will happen next? Iskanders? Maybe. When the operation began, any of YOU, we thought, at least once thought, provocations are possible. If not for the earth, the Commander would be alive. In Afghanistan, we did how, the PP (reconnaissance) sat down on the path, loudly rattling bowlers, mats, at night, quietly pulled up two PB (reconnaissance platoons) of the battalion (there was only 10 km from the base). After two days, the PP rattled and farted all, acted in film and left, not infrequently ambushed when leaving, but THINKING and guessing about it left without losses, with a maximum of 300 lungs. But on the same night we covered such meat on the trail, then we took out weapons, infantry and all kinds of crap with helicopters. Result, bandos did not receive food, how many lives were saved? And all this was thought out by NS and HP brigades !!! And here is the country videoconferencing.
  16. belovur
    belovur 27 November 2015 14: 42 New
    +6
    The article once again confirms that you can’t relax, even when Tagil hits Igil!
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 27 November 2015 14: 49 New
      +3
      Quote: belovur
      The article once again confirms that you can’t relax, even when Tagil hits Igil!

      And when did we relax in Russia ....? And the eternal battle, we can only dream of peace! We will be alive, we will not die men ... We will break through this time! hi
      1. SAM 5
        SAM 5 27 November 2015 15: 46 New
        +3
        And when did we relax in Russia ....?

        Often.
        1. sharp-lad
          sharp-lad 27 November 2015 20: 59 New
          +1
          Unfortunately too often. I would like something less!
  17. Yunik
    Yunik 27 November 2015 14: 42 New
    +4
    I think our special services know this very well. But there is one thought, it may not be very correct, the situation with the plane, however terrible it may be, is in the hands of the Russian Federation. Turks and igilovites in tandem, it was not realistic to officially close the border, but now it’s all buzzing. Well, and how to limit their coalition in the possibilities of making this a no-fly zone, now it’s buzzing again.
  18. Airborne Major
    Airborne Major 27 November 2015 14: 43 New
    +5
    For this reason, as the president said, EW funds will be further deployed. Blindly, the Kindturks are unlikely to be able to harm something.
    1. nik1321
      nik1321 27 November 2015 15: 02 New
      +3
      Pindoturks - well said, you need to remember.
  19. barclay
    barclay 27 November 2015 14: 43 New
    +1
    As always. Stink from overseas!
  20. starshina pv
    starshina pv 27 November 2015 14: 43 New
    0
    without the striped Turks they wouldn’t jerk !!! in fact, Erdoshka-bzdimo himself !!!!
  21. falikreutov
    falikreutov 27 November 2015 14: 45 New
    +3
    Yes, pin.dos fully framed the Turks! They remembered everything - both the refusal to impose sanctions against the Russian Federation, and the preparations for the construction of the Turkish Stream! And now, as if they weren’t to blame - Turkey itself shot at a Russian plane! Answer one h.ren Turkey !!! Russia has no right to leave it just like that - the answer must be, and it must be tough !!!
  22. Ima tsoh
    Ima tsoh 27 November 2015 14: 46 New
    +2
    Turks remain Turks and Americans used them, understanding their essence, but the Saudis are a mistake of history which, using religion, muddies the mind of this region. Sooner or later they will get their own and necessary. Do not forget and do not forgive. These entities as countries are vile ulcers.
  23. mik0588
    mik0588 27 November 2015 14: 46 New
    0
    Turkish planes cannot be shot down because it will write off their debt to us and then return back - neither friend nor enemy. Something like this.
    1. kil 31
      kil 31 27 November 2015 15: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: mik0588
      Turkish planes cannot be shot down because it will write off their debt to us and then return back - neither friend nor enemy. Something like this.
      Maybe you still propose to fix the debt, let them bring down another plane?
    2. Uncle VasyaSayapin
      Uncle VasyaSayapin 27 November 2015 15: 25 New
      +1
      You can’t shoot down. Is it to burn at the airfields?
  24. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 27 November 2015 14: 49 New
    +2
    How unexpected. Who would have thought that the endorgan first agreed with "our respected partners", and only then it will begin. And who would have thought that our generals only understand combat drillings and the quality of bedding, and that they are not capable of any real combat work with a real enemy. It’s the same as appointing the son of a childhood friend as vice-premier, and then wondering if he failed.
  25. HAM
    HAM 27 November 2015 14: 49 New
    26
    Comrades, let us remember the good word of our WARRIORS!
  26. chelovektapok
    chelovektapok 27 November 2015 14: 50 New
    +5
    It turns out that he was the second airplane of unknown origin. And here I was instructed of the minuses for the "target rented from the skakovs" with identical flight characteristics. How would the infantry explain? Well, for example, prepare an ambush a little more cunningly than trees cut across the road .... Well, there is equipment that needs to be set up, calibrated, tied to the coordinates so that you don’t miss the right moment. For this, you need a “standard” living on all the laws of purpose. By adhering to it (an analogue of targeting the area for scorers and snipers), it is possible to suppress or destroy up to a split second. And the tip itself is late to the point of "phantoms." The shadow falls off the course in advance, the goal is conducted, as in a textbook. Who needs this? Yes, those whose AWACS were hanging out there. Unreasonable negligence on the part of our electronic intelligence, especially when the "bomb bomb" went home, bombing. There is no question of covering the bombers with fighters. The science of at least the Second World War .... Bad!
  27. Neserg
    Neserg 27 November 2015 14: 51 New
    +1
    said, well, so say B

    http://pravosudija.net/article/scofield-interesnye-detali-poiskovo-spasatelnoy-o
    peracii
  28. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 27 November 2015 14: 54 New
    +2
    In our world, the country is already doing nothing alone. Especially NATO. The sheep hid, and Erdogan himself figured out everything. Time will tell ..
  29. pts-m
    pts-m 27 November 2015 14: 54 New
    0
    whoever doubted the “friendly” relations between the Turks and the Yankees. but our miscalculation and us to live with it. Indeed, life does not teach our government anything, but it undoes the ill-conceived actions of those in power.
  30. Belarus
    Belarus 27 November 2015 14: 55 New
    +5
    No one doubted that it could have been otherwise. The whole puncture of this provocation consisted in the time during which drying was able to escape into the airspace of Syria. That's why Perdogan ran like a faithful dog to his master of the United States. And apparently hysteria over the fact that the Americans he was framed in full (apparently, Perdogan did not know that proverb about friends and the United States). The Americans apparently assured him that they would cover him, but as always, they threw him here (all in the spirit of the Americans and their policies).
    I’m curious about something else: how can Russia behave in this situation? Although I live in Minsk, I still worry about Russia and share with it all its troubles and joys. and I want her to stand and put in all the haters at most do not indulge
  31. marna
    marna 27 November 2015 14: 55 New
    +2
    This sweet couple has already gotten to the end ... we must somehow start to deal with the Saudis.
    Interestingly, we will continue to transmit information about the whereabouts of our pilots to partners? ...
  32. 34 region
    34 region 27 November 2015 14: 57 New
    +2
    It is interesting now to learn the opinion of domestic businessmen. Do they still believe in an honest west? Will they continue to invest in their economy ignoring their own? What happened to the plane at any moment can happen to their business. Or do they find this impossible?
    1. DenZ
      DenZ 27 November 2015 15: 23 New
      +1
      It is interesting now to learn the opinion of domestic businessmen. Do they still believe in an honest west? Will they continue to invest in their economy ignoring their own?
      Although I’m not a businessman, I’ll say that many businessmen would be happy to invest, but the policy of our Central Bank (in which, in my opinion, it’s time to put it through one wall to the wall) does not allow them to borrow money from Russian banks. Hence what development? But all kinds of imported bullshit are bought mainly by officials on shell trading (where kickbacks are easy to get). In short, why is everything so weak with the economy in our country?
    2. WU 37
      WU 37 27 November 2015 15: 26 New
      +2
      Business is only interested in money !!! All our large and medium-sized businessmen have money over the hill And all their children study there
  33. Hiw
    Hiw 27 November 2015 14: 57 New
    +4
    And what does the Frenchwoman blurted out at the meeting with the GDP - the coalition against the ig, led by the United States ???? what kind of kaolitsiya in the ass, what is this, led by the usa. This presidential French painfully resembles a decoy duck with his suggestions about anti-Igil kaolitsiya, to hell with that - let down your second aircraft carrier so start bombing jackals at least with a frequency of 30-40 sorties per day and hit targets. It seems so far the only ally concerned is Assad and his soldiers
  34. Starik72
    Starik72 27 November 2015 14: 59 New
    +1
    Russian Avos played a terrible joke with us. AVOS our "partners" (I deliberately put the word partners in quotation marks) will act within the framework of the agreement and partnerships, but it turned out the opposite. There is only one conclusion, do not believe the "partners" and do everything so that even your mosquito (well, YOU you know what I meant) did not slip into our actions. And the current Turkish leadership, led by Erdogan, is the evil chain dogs that rush at everyone at the command of their US master.
  35. mik0588
    mik0588 27 November 2015 15: 00 New
    +6
    all repeats?
  36. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 27 November 2015 15: 01 New
    +2
    All this is strange.
    We all understand that terrorism is an American project, that they do not spare their citizens, but strangers, even more so.
    Why was such a provocation missed? My questions are not for the military, but for the special services. Why the information does not add up and there is no necessary response?
    Here’s Hollande’s visit to Moscow, they accepted it well, it’s normal, but did they understand that he was nothing more than a pawn in someone else’s game and any agreements with him were not worth a penny? He cannot be taken seriously for a partner; his position on the Mistrals proves his utter dependence and non-independence.
    Any forces can be trusted only for a short time, when coinciding interests are vital for a partner, a strong partner.
  37. COBA
    COBA 27 November 2015 15: 01 New
    +1
    People, do not tell, while we are buying green candy wrappers with Jewish-Masonic symbols, Putin has nothing to reproach with "respected partners" bully
  38. Shkodnik65
    Shkodnik65 27 November 2015 15: 02 New
    +7
    Well, the situation with the SU-24 at the moment was laid out on shelves, sucked on the bones, everything seems to be clear. One thing I don’t understand is the principle: where was our intelligence ??? !!! GRU, SVR, etc. were where ??? !!! Well, after all, how should one be gullible, so that after the Americans say that our planes will fall, knowing that Erdogan is BLOODly interested in ISIS and oil supplies from them, knowing that even the CP a month ago, the Turks warned that a provocation was being prepared not to take ELEMENTARY safety measures or in general, the protection of bombers flying off the Turkish borders individually. Is it credulity? No, this is sloppiness. The airbase commander (and even higher, up to the General Staff) should not have any kind of trust in anyone at all, especially if he is in the territory of another state, where there is a real war. And now, eyebrows frowning and clattering hooves. You know colleagues, but in my opinion, there are some who need to pinch genitalia, or even to kick out or punish in public. After all, people died, perished stupidly. I am especially sad, because the SU-24M is my first plane, my first love, so to speak, so I am especially close to its crash and the death of the guys. But I think that if you do not slam the headache, sloppiness and nonsense, people will continue to perish, all the more so since it was precisely such a situation that had to be foreseen and prevented.
    1. Uncle VasyaSayapin
      Uncle VasyaSayapin 27 November 2015 15: 49 New
      0
      So everything goes according to plan. what
  39. mitrich
    mitrich 27 November 2015 15: 05 New
    +1
    The fact that this was done, at least with the tacit consent of the amers, do not go to a fortuneteller. They are enemies to us, definitely enemies. Or at worst, "sworn partners." I think this is one chain, the termination of email. supply to the Crimea, downed Su-24. We must still go .. to wait from these gn.d. It would be good for them, as in that joke, to us .. to get compote.
  40. non-placeholder
    non-placeholder 27 November 2015 15: 08 New
    +5
    But is there evidence of everything described in the article (intercepted negotiations, recorded activity of AWACS) or speculation? Okay, the pilots turn off the “birch”, in Latakia the center has already been deployed, and not just the air base, and in general they do not follow the sky — Ф16 they had to see and calculate the combat course.
  41. Simara
    Simara 27 November 2015 15: 09 New
    +2
    The main goal was not the destruction of the Su-24, but the capture of both or at least one pilot ... then the Turks would have played "intermediaries" and given the recent statements by Hakan Fedat that the West should recognize the IG and need to open their representative office in Istanbul the option of capturing prisoners seems very likely ... only the Syrians didn’t get scared and helped to repel the surviving pilot ... the result ... the last bridgehead of the Turks in Syria will be dusted ... Erdogan’s sanctions .. and given the difficult situation in Turkey, possible coup and mortal to zn Rezhepu Tayypychu with all his relatives ... whatever you can not to ... s not torture Well ... I ...
    regarding the idea that this is a planned US action .. it is extremely unlikely ... s and NATO instantly disowned this incident ... and yes, Barak Husseinich is of course a ram, but even the rams have a self-preservation instinct ... plus we add to this that even the most stupid An analyst at the Pentagon could well have guessed what the consequences of this attack would be ... full control of Syrian airspace by the air forces of the Russian Federation, strengthening of the air defense forces, transfer of additional ground forces if necessary, and the loss of a bridgehead in the form of a "buffer zone" and, consequently minus one means of pressure on the Russian Federation in the form of Erdogan ... so that the United States there does not tally. But the frostbitten and stupid Erdogan and the Qatari money is quite.
    1. DenZ
      DenZ 27 November 2015 15: 29 New
      +1
      and NATO instantly disowned this incident ...

      And we just believed them all right there. Well, do not tell. They disowned because they could do it and not because they were not to blame.
      1. Simara
        Simara 27 November 2015 15: 41 New
        +2
        Suppose you don’t believe ... And what did NATO get as a result of a downed plane?
        1. Turkey is a member of NATO of the very western coalition and now the Russian Federation can send Obama with his good coalition to a good conscience to hell and completely within the framework of law, etc.
        2. Turkey as an instrument of influence on the Syrian issue is no longer rolling.
        3. Russia has only strengthened its presence and now any incidents are excluded. Again, Turks, igil or Turkoman have no prisoners of war, and now they will also be rolled into dust.
        4. NATO will now be considered not only by other countries but also by NATO members themselves as an unpredictable submarine which, due to one dormant crew member, can sink. To the joy of all Lepen and other opposition and Eurosceptics.
        5. If the Russian Federation completely takes it (and taking into account the incident now the VKS and SSA will simply roll everyone on the Turkish border), the idea of ​​gas from the Middle East to the EU will die down for a long time.
        And these are only the visible consequences for the USA, NATO and the EU, I am silent about the consequences for Turkey.
        After all this, do you still believe that the USA was involved?
        As for the United States, I do not have any illusions ... if they could have wiped the RF from the face of the earth long ago and with the use of nuclear weapons .. but as they say to a cheerful cow ...
        But NATO’s IMHO is not interested in this incident.
    2. Not served
      Not served 27 November 2015 16: 13 New
      +1
      The main goal was not the destruction of the Su-24 but the capture of both or at least one pilot captured ... then the Turks would have played the "intermediaries"


      Bullshit, 10 thousand unarmed tourists are quietly sunbathing at their side. If you wish, you can catch it on drugs.
      1. Simara
        Simara 27 November 2015 20: 27 New
        0
        there is a big difference between a captured pilot and a tourist ...
        in the first case it’s quite conventional .. they say the war .. the soldier was captured by a soldier .. in the second case this is a serious crime.
        There are not only Russian tourists ... if they begin to steal tourists in Turkey, this is the end for Turkey ... and there is a big difference between the theft of a tourist in Turkey by the Turks and the captivity of the pilot by the "moderate opposition" ... it would give leverage to give legitimacy to the Turkmens "and it is possible to create autonomy controlled by the ankara as opposed to the Kurds ... and if you start to steal or cut off the heads of the tourists, Erdogan will not turn away and not a single tourist from ANY country will go to Turkey ... how do scumbags know how to distinguish a European from a Russian in appearance then they are for basurm the same ...
  42. Polovtsian
    Polovtsian 27 November 2015 15: 10 New
    +2
    Offensively, Turkey Su-24 involving the United States and Saudi Arabia
    I somehow didn’t doubt it, and after such a reasoned article, there was no doubt at all.
  43. individual
    individual 27 November 2015 15: 11 New
    0
    The jackals already got the bear in the den.
    It's time to go out in the taiga to restore order!
  44. Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 27 November 2015 15: 12 New
    13
    Do not go to a fortuneteller - actions from an ambush, as in a textbook.
    I do not agree with the author that everything was so complicated. Banal guidance and use of Sidewinder, even the radar is not necessary to include - the range will tell. Overlap of the airspace there is likely multiple, bastards must have accompanied constantly, but here the task was set. MiG-31 cries for them, even SR avoided it.
    I would like to believe that the leadership will draw a plan from his pocket on how to punish those who "blessed" and gave the command. Well, about those who performed, especially fired at the guys under parachutes - I remember there is a structure in the sun professing the principle of blood feud - a green light.
  45. Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 27 November 2015 15: 13 New
    0
    But are there facts, or only empirical conclusions? so I can say that Turkey itself took the initiative.
    1. padded jacket
      padded jacket 27 November 2015 15: 22 New
      +1
      I don’t think that only the United States cost here, and Saudi Arabia probably knew about the strike on our plane, and Israel, which is a strategic ally of the United States and possibly Qatar.
  46. WU 37
    WU 37 27 November 2015 15: 22 New
    +5
    The Americans are systematically forcing Russia to fight. At first, they unleashed a madhouse in Ukraine, hoping that ours would get bogged down, it didn’t work out !!! Now, with the hands of the Turks, they are trying to instigate the war of Turkey + NATO against Russia in Syria. I am sure that our plane is only the beginning! We need to wait for even more heinous antics of the Americans. Well, people
  47. Rostislav
    Rostislav 27 November 2015 15: 24 New
    +1
    Thanks for the detailed analysis of the attack. This is very necessary for people thinking, because it is not a specialist who will be able to build a picture of events.
    It would be necessary to show this analysis of a TV specialist on all news channels - RT, Vesti, Today, etc.
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 27 November 2015 16: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: Rostislav
      It would be necessary to show this analysis of a TV specialist on all news channels

      This is not necessary - just speculation. There are a lot of such "specialists" on REN TV. smile
  48. win
    win 27 November 2015 15: 32 New
    +2
    The pilot pressed the "Start" button.
    And the determination of the exact location of the aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces was chosen by the AWACS USA и Saudi Arabia.
    If there are problems with military intervention with Turkey and the USA, then the saudis can be free shandarah.
    Saudi Arabia - helps terrorists in every possible way, i.e. terrorist accomplice.

    Companions also need to wet.
  49. Zeus
    Zeus 27 November 2015 15: 41 New
    +1
    The air-to-air missiles are just good because you don’t need to irradiate the victim plane with your radar, which will give you your radio emission. Using a infrared sensor, a fighter plane captures a target with data transmission to a missile with an infrared seeker, launches, the missile goes to the target by thermal radiation.
    In such an attack, the victim’s aircraft is never irradiated by a fighter and cannot determine the capture of itself by the fighter, nor the launch of a rocket by itself.
    Therefore this
    At the same time, the AN / APG-68 radar of the fighter launching the missile worked in the “target illumination” mode: it turned on at the time of launch and turned off after the missile confidently captured and hit the target.


    shows that Alexei Petrovich Leonkov is not an expert, but hell knows who.

    Interesting that it
    AIM-9X with a new infrared matrix homing head, imaging the target in the infrared range and insensitive to heat traps


    precisely copied from pedagogy.

    The infrared homing head operates on the basis of infrared electromagnetic radiation, in which heat traps emit, so all this is garbage about insensitivity. If you "look" in the IR, then you can influence it with IR sources. You can’t deceive physics.



    Quote: Vladimir71
    Vladimir71
    Putin himself said in an interior view during a meeting with Åland that ours provided data to the pind-wasps where, when and at what height our bombers will be located and it’s not clear that we are all so honest and adhere to agreements with the enemy, whether bad, or both together it's even worse. Honest and evil is always the loser to a smart and mean enemy ...


    All states whose planes fly over Syria pledged to each other to transmit information about their flights, so that such incidents would not occur. But Turkey violated these obligations. Official sources have repeatedly stated this and that in the press.
    So don’t be smart, smart critic.
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 27 November 2015 17: 06 New
      +1
      Quote: Zeus
      It cannot determine the capture of itself by a fighter, nor the launch of a rocket by itself.

      How so - "can not"? The Karpaty airborne defense complex includes an SPO-15S Bereza radio reconnaissance station (L-006), which records the fact of aircraft being exposed to enemy radar and fighter radar stations and determining the direction of the emitting radar (also installed on the latest Su 24);
      heat locator "Mack" warning crew about launching air-to-air and ground-to-air missiles.
      1. Zeus
        Zeus 27 November 2015 19: 22 New
        +1
        About "Mac" did not know. However, to irradiate an attacked aircraft with a radar before attacking with a missile with IR - is this for good?
        Bullshit is all.
    2. kuz363
      kuz363 29 November 2015 11: 14 New
      +1
      "The infrared homing head works on the basis of electromagnetic radiation in the infrared range in which heat traps emit, so it's all bullshit about insensitivity." Maybe not bullshit. If the thermal radiation of the traps coincides with the radiation of the engines along the wavelength, then yes. And if not, then the rocket will hit the engine. But it is possible that the rocket still has other channels duplicating the infrared head in other ways. Suppose an optical channel. Or acoustic. So they will work
  50. Rom14
    Rom14 27 November 2015 15: 42 New
    +6
    Eh Russia, you are Russia .., seven bends a mile away ... How many you beat, how many you need to kill. So that you finally understand the truth - do not believe, do not be afraid, do not ask ... One hope, Army, Navy, and yours long-suffering people. And of course, no one in the world dares to fart without the permission of the main terrorists of the planet. Will the scots and briggs of Russia help in this fight?