Military Review

Protect aircraft: strengthening air defense in Syria

119
In response to the perfidious attack of the Turkish Air Force on the Russian bomber Su-24, it was decided to implement a series of measures aimed at improving the safety of our pilots when performing combat missions in Syrian airspace. It is planned by various methods to strengthen the air defense of the respective areas, which will allow Russian pilots to calmly engage in the destruction of these targets without risking to get under the fire of a potential enemy.


Soon after clarifying the main circumstances of the crash of the Su-24 bomber, the leadership of the Russian Ministry of Defense announced the main list of measures to be taken in the very near future. In order to protect the Khmeimim base and planes during combat sorties, the command ordered to strengthen the fighter cover of the strike aviation, and also deploy anti-aircraft missile systems to the Syrian base. In addition, the crew of the Moscow guards missile cruiser received orders to make the transition to the coast of Syria and also take part in the air defense of these areas.

It is assumed that such an increase in air defense in the area of ​​Khmeimim airbase and other areas where Russian pilots operate will cool hot heads from third countries and prevent possible new attacks on our aircraft. Officially stated that all air targets that pose a danger to Russian aviation will be destroyed. Let us consider what the potential adversary will have to face if it decides on new provocations and new aggressive actions against our planes.


Su-30SM at Khmeimim airbase. Photo of the Russian Defense Ministry


Back in mid-September, when the first reports appeared about the transfer of Russian aircraft to Syria, it became known that four Su-30CM multi-role fighters were present as part of the aviation group being formed. The main task of these aircraft is to support strike aircraft on combat missions and to counter enemy attempts to prevent the fulfillment of assigned tasks. In addition, there is information about the participation of Su-30CM in the attacks of terrorist objects as attack aircraft.

Due to the high flight characteristics, they can accompany bombers of all types with equal efficiency and engaging in the Syrian operation. By covering the attack aircraft, the Su-30CM fighters are able to detect, identify and attack a dangerous air target in a timely manner. The combat effectiveness of these aircraft is further increased due to the possibility of interaction with ground services and obtaining target designation from radar stations.

Su-30CM fighter has a fairly powerful weapon system. It is equipped with a built-in automatic cannon GSH-30-1 caliber 30 mm and 12 pylons for the suspension of weapons. When performing tasks to intercept air targets, a fighter's ammunition can consist of several missiles of different types with different characteristics. So, for hitting targets at short ranges, guided missiles P-73 or newer RVV-MD can be used. It is proposed to intercept targets at medium ranges using P-27, P-77 or, in the near future, RVV-SD missiles. Depending on the type of rocket, a target can be attacked from distances up to 70-80 km.

With the right interaction with other elements of the air defense, Su-30CM fighters are able to timely detect a potentially dangerous object and then attack it using the most appropriate weapon in this situation. Thus, the mere presence of such aircraft in the airspace can interfere with the implementation of enemy plans, since any aggressive actions can be quickly and severely stopped.

A few days ago, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported on the strengthening of the aviation group at Hmeimim airbase. The group's fighter aircraft was supplemented by four Su-27CM fighters, who, as reported, have already taken part in the fight against terrorists and have struck several blows at their targets. Su-27SM is one of the newest modifications of the base aircraft and differs from it in a number of new equipment, including the so-called. glass cabin.

In solving the tasks of covering attack aircraft, the Su-27CM can carry up to 8 tons of various air-to-air weapons. Due to the use of modern onboard equipment, this fighter can carry and use the entire range of modern domestic missiles of this class. Depending on the characteristics of the tactical situation, the Su-27CM can take on board up to eight P-27 or P-77 missiles, as well as the order of 4-6 P-73 missiles. Thus, each aircraft of this type receives sufficient ammunition to combat air targets at small and medium distances.

For several years, rumors about the possible appearance of interceptors MiG-31 in the sky over Syria have regularly appeared. Previously, without any evidence, it was said about the plans of the official Damascus to purchase such aircraft. After the start of the Russian operation, similar rumors began to mention the possible transfer of a certain number of interceptors to the Hamim base to reinforce the existing grouping. Despite a fairly active discussion of such information in various circles, the MiG-31 has not yet appeared in the sky of Syria.

It should be noted that with the right tactics of using the MiG-31, they could fully solve all the issues of protecting Syria from air attacks. These aircraft have high flight data and combat qualities. So, onboard radar stations of the “Zaslon” family allow detecting air targets at distances up to 400 km. The maximum range of destruction of detected targets when using P-33 missiles reaches 300 km. Other types of ammunition can be used to attack at shorter distances.

Despite its high performance, MiG-31 interceptors are not working in Syria yet. Moreover, there is every reason to believe that the Russian aviation group based on Hamim will not need such planes in the future. This version is supported by the current composition of the group, as well as the characteristic features of the current conflict, in which the characteristics of the MiG-31 may be redundant.


Anti-aircraft complex "Pantsir-С1". Photo author


During the deployment of the Russian air base, all necessary measures were taken to organize the air defense of the airfield and surrounding areas. To this end, the Russian military together with the Syrian colleagues built a layered air defense system based on complexes of various classes and types. Apparently, initially the purpose of these works was to protect the Chemeem base and its facilities. In connection with the latest events, the zone of responsibility of Russian anti-aircraft complexes may increase by several times. Moreover, the characteristics of some systems allow for the destruction of targets in almost the entire airspace of Syria.

From official and other sources it is known that Khmeimim’s air defense system is provided by several types of anti-aircraft systems belonging to both the Russian armed forces and the Syrian army. The latter, for example, provided short-range C-125 and medium C-200 complexes. Other equipment was delivered from Russia and is operated by Russian military personnel.

It is known that the protection of the Russian airbase at short distances is carried out by several anti-aircraft missile-cannon complexes "Pantsir-C1". Several combat vehicles of this type are located around the perimeter of the base and are responsible for intercepting targets that have managed to break through other defense echelons. It is noteworthy that in Syria there are not only Russian “Pantsiri-С1”. Dozens of such complexes were supplied to Syria under the contract of 2006.

The Osa anti-aircraft missile systems were added to the Pantsirey-S1. Both of these systems are designed to attack targets at short distances and can hit dangerous objects at distances up to 20 or up to 10 km, respectively. In the case of the Pantsir-С1 complex, anti-aircraft automatic cannons with a range of up to 4 km are an additional means of destroying targets.

According to domestic media reports, Buk-M2E medium-range air defense systems were delivered to Syria. With the help of the new 9М317 missiles, this complex can attack aerial targets at ranges up to 50 km and altitudes up to 25 km. According to reports, the maximum target overload reaches 24 units, which allows the Buk-M2E complex to effectively destroy all existing and prospective combat aircraft.

After the destruction of the Russian Su-24 bomber, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu ordered to strengthen the air defense of Hmeimim airbase using a number of new means. The ground grouping of air defense must be reinforced by the newest long-range air defense systems С-400. This decision was made on November 24, and the first reports appeared on 26 about the completion of the transfer and deployment of all the facilities of the complex.

The Ministry of Defense reports that such a high deployment speed was achieved with the help of military transport aviation. During the day, the C-400 complex was transported by military transport aviation from one of the airfields near Moscow to the Syrian base. In the future, the calculations of the complexes produced all the necessary procedures and prepared them for work.

Such statements by the Ministry of Defense are of great interest, since earlier information about the already transferred C-400 to Syria appeared in unofficial sources. Now the situation has cleared up. As it turned out, just a few days ago, one of the new model air defense systems served in the Moscow region, and after receiving the order in the shortest possible time was transported to the base Hmeimim, where he will now work until the corresponding order.


Launchers SAM C-400. Photo of Wikimedia Commons


The C-400 anti-aircraft complex includes a number of different means of detecting and processing data, as well as missile launchers with several types of guided missiles. Declared the possibility of the destruction of various aerodynamic and ballistic targets. Among other things, the C-400 can hit subtle planes and ballistic missiles with a launch range of up to 3000-3500 km.

The existence of several types of anti-aircraft missiles used by the C-400 complex is known. They are intended to attack certain targets at different ranges, and also have some differences. Of particular interest is the long-range rocket 40H6E, the launch range of which is declared at the level of 400 km. With the help of such missiles, the C-400 complex is able to "close" almost the entire territory of Syria and some of the neighboring regions.

Already on November 24, the Guards missile cruiser "Moscow", along with other ships located in the Mediterranean, received an order to approach the shores of Syria and take part in the organization of air defense. This ship has several anti-aircraft systems, but at the moment the C-300F Fort complex is of the greatest interest, allowing you to attack targets at long ranges.

The “Fort” air defense missile system is a ship version of the C-300 family systems, built using a number of unified components. The cruiser "Moscow" carries eight launchers with a common ammunition of 64 guided missiles. The complex "Fort" can use several types of missiles that have different characteristics. Different missiles offered for the Fort system can hit targets at ranges up to 150-200 km. In addition, there are missiles with a shorter range.


Launchers SAM "Fort". Photo of Wikimedia Commons


When located off the coast of Syria, the Guards missile cruiser “Moscow” is capable of carrying out air defense of Hmeymim airbase and the nearby region, as well as some remote areas. In addition, being in the northern areas of the territorial waters of Syria, the ship is able to "cover" the area of ​​the destruction of the Russian bomber and prevent new incidents of this kind.

The perfidious and treacherous attack of Turkish aviation leads to serious consequences. The Russian Ministry of Defense is no longer inclined to see an ally in Turkey and is taking measures to prevent similar incidents in the future. For this purpose, the grouping of air defense systems is strengthened, and adjustments are made to the tactics of fighter aircraft.

In just a few hours after the Turkish attack, it was decided to strengthen the fighter escort of strike aircraft, as well as to deploy in Syria new anti-aircraft systems and supplement them with the systems of the cruiser "Moscow". Thus, in the shortest possible time, an enhanced air defense system was created, capable of protecting the Hamim airbase and, under certain conditions, other areas of Syria.

Not the most far-sighted and intelligent actions of the Turkish leadership and the air force lead to serious consequences. In response to the aggression, Russia is building up its air defense systems and thereby warns potential aggressors against ill-considered actions. Available information about the reinforced grouping of Russian air defense suggests that it can not only prevent new attacks on Russian aircraft, but also disrupt the implementation of some plans of third countries related to strikes on various objects in Syria. The Russian armed forces clearly demonstrate that in no case should we quarrel with them.


On the materials of the sites:
http://mil.ru/
http://ria.ru/
http://tass.ru/
http://interfax.ru/
http://airwar.ru/
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  1. tracker
    tracker 27 November 2015 06: 48 New
    14
    I hope a no-fly zone has been established over Syria for all the so-called "allies" in the coalition. As it turned out, there is no need for enemies if there are allies like Turkey, the United States, and possibly the French ... I would not be surprised if Hollande's planes accidentally strike the Syrian army
    1. Mr. Fun
      Mr. Fun 27 November 2015 09: 53 New
      +2
      Quote: Pathfinder
      I hope a no-fly zone has been established over Syria for all the so-called "allies" in the coalition. As it turned out, there is no need for enemies if there are allies like Turkey, the United States, and possibly the French ... I would not be surprised if Hollande's planes accidentally strike the Syrian army

      Duck in general, how to drink ... And then they will cover like mattresses in Afghanistan. They say "collateral losses" ... In Fashington x * wound with our vigorous little thing, say "collateral losses, in the fight against ISIS" ...
    2. Ross_ulair
      Ross_ulair 27 November 2015 10: 05 New
      +6
      Quote: Pathfinder
      I hope a no-fly zone has been established over Syria for all the so-called "allies" in the coalition. As it turned out, there is no need for enemies if there are allies like Turkey, the United States, and possibly the French ... I would not be surprised if Hollande's planes accidentally strike the Syrian army


      Erdogan already does not see the forest trees. Judging by his statement that the landing of their aircraft in the airspace of Syria, they will be seen as an act of aggression with all the consequences.

      IMHO - and let them consider. Everything will even be much easier. The Gordian knot is not untied - it is cut with a sword.
    3. andrei.yandex
      andrei.yandex 27 November 2015 12: 46 New
      +1
      They were not when we were not allies — we think so, but in reality they have only interests and the main interest — this is again Russia, as it does not fit into their world domination, as an independent country.
  2. Waltasar
    Waltasar 27 November 2015 06: 53 New
    +7
    And how can the S-300 and S-400 help prevent such provocations? We’ll have to attack already in response (we will not be likened to these imbeciles) over the territory of Turkey and at a range close to maximum. Will the F-16 manage to get away from the rocket in this situation?
    1. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 27 November 2015 06: 59 New
      +2
      Why not? A very possible option. At any approach of Turkish aviation to the war zone.
      1. passerby1
        passerby1 27 November 2015 08: 05 New
        20
        We have already seen how "we will". Again, we will prohibit importing some tomatoes into Russia. Moreover, Erdogan has already said that the destruction of Turkish planes in the skies of Syria will be regarded as aggression, ours will again be frightened by the "3rd World War" and will only puff out their cheeks and stomp their feet. The Turks are not afraid of any "3rd World War," but calmly shoot down our planes, and politely send all the dissatisfied on a long journey on foot. It is not enough to have a weapon, you also need to have eggs in order to use this weapon. And as the story with the Su 24 showed, we have a big problem with these same eggs.
        1. perm23
          perm23 27 November 2015 08: 16 New
          12
          I’m afraid of that too. Also, the f-16 will jump out of the ambush and leave, and here the Su-30 will not help, they can also shoot down and what we will do is bring it down on foreign territory. I don’t know who will be able to make such a decision. The maximum that can help all this in time to inform the pilots about the threat. Where were all our operators, management officers, if they saw 16 on the maps, why didn’t they warn Sushka? Yes, we need steel eggs to decide and do it. And helping the Kurds with weapons is the best brainwash for the Turks.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 27 November 2015 08: 54 New
            +1
            Who told you that Su-30 will now be ceremonial at all? He is now responsible only for the losses of the escorted bombers, and not for the losses of the Turkish Air Force. It is possible to launch a missile at any foreign target at a distance of several tens of kilometers, regardless of whose territory it is on.

            Otherwise, you don’t have to fly at all, because then the Turks will still be masters over their territory and can calmly escort them from there and fire at them across the border. Turkish sovereignty will now be recognized unless in such moments as striking at targets on its territory that are not a threat to aircraft and generally flying, and a fighter, or an included radar station at the border, may well be attacked, and the pilot must be responsible for political consequences will not be.
            1. ancient
              ancient 27 November 2015 09: 59 New
              +7
              Quote: EvilLion
              Who told you that the Su-30 will now be ceremonial?


              The question was not that the Su-30SM will "stand on ceremony" or not, but that ... what is available from ... well, there is no "steel personal belongings" wassat

              The Israelis calmly "spank from their territory" on objects in Syria and WH ???? request

              Quote: EvilLion
              and the fighter, or the included radar at the border, may well be attacked


              Without announcing at least some "measures"? .. Oh well .. on fig soldier

              Quote: EvilLion
              the pilot certainly will not be responsible for the political consequences.


              They do not have ... but ours ... will have "problems" crying
              1. aiden
                aiden 27 November 2015 19: 47 New
                0
                Our pilots are people who will avenge their own, and there is no doubt about it. Catch and drop the plane.
          2. ism_ek
            ism_ek 27 November 2015 09: 57 New
            +2
            Quote: perm23
            Also, the f-16 will jump out of the ambush and leave, and here the Su-30 will not help
            From the Su-30 just do not hide. He has a radar all-round view. When nominating the F-16, he would have immediately discovered it and warned the bombers, they would have left in the overdrive from the affected area.
            Quote: perm23
            Where were all our operators, management officers, if they saw 16 on the maps, why didn’t they warn Sushka

            F-16 was hiding behind the mountain. The radars of the base in Hamim did not see him. He launched an attack on commands from the ground and launched a rocket making eye contact without using radar.
            1. ancient
              ancient 27 November 2015 10: 49 New
              +4
              Quote: ism_ek
              F-16 was hiding behind the mountain. The radars of the base in Hamim did not see him.


              Write everything correctly, +! So the Americans in the 80s in Lebanon "did", but .... they did not hide the F-16 behind the mountain, but quietly patrolled the zone and waited for a command from Avaks. soldier
              1. perm23
                perm23 27 November 2015 12: 26 New
                +1
                And how then should ours do.
                1. ancient
                  ancient 27 November 2015 15: 10 New
                  +1
                  Quote: perm23
                  And how then should ours do.


                  Well, for starters .. "continue" reading "enthusiastic prices from KRET" lol , "rejoice" in the conduct of exercises on their territory on the interaction of IA and A-50 ... where everything and everyone is intercepted (in the conditions of "active use of electronic warfare ... of a potential enemy).
                  Continue to "believe" ... "allies" and "provide, at their" request ", all information about the OBP of our aviation's actions, etc., etc.
                  Yes .. don’t forget for any reason fellow -kat .. this is the most important wassat

                  It's sarcasm!!! soldier
                2. FM-78
                  FM-78 28 November 2015 00: 37 New
                  0
                  KILL !!!
              2. NEXUS
                NEXUS 27 November 2015 14: 31 New
                +2
                Quote: ancient
                Write everything correctly, +! So the Americans in the 80s in Lebanon "did", but .... they did not hide the F-16 behind the mountain, but quietly patrolled the zone and waited for a command from Avaks.

                And something tells me that there’s not one ... moreover, I believe that it was our bomber that was flying single-handedly.
        2. ancient
          ancient 27 November 2015 09: 53 New
          20
          Quote: passerby1
          And we have, as the story of Su 24 has shown, a big problem with these very eggs.


          ABSOLUTELY ... SUPPORT! +! soldier

          In response to the downed plane, we immediately release into the arena ... "combat veterinarians" wassat and we start looking for some "harmful pistols" in everything we can ... wassat

          And I also "liked" fool - “Everyone understands that every Turkish tomato bought at Auchan or at the market is a contribution to another rocket that will fire at our guys,” Onishchenko said at the forum.

          S.tsu.k.a, why don’t you talk about why Turkey (which has a gulkin nose) supplies all of Russia with tomatoes and Egypt (desert) with potatoes? wassat

          Why can't they grow their own in Russia, "fool- woodpecker "you are a kind, but if you have grown it, then this is s.ts.u.k. and with some fright," environmentally friendly "and costs at an expensive import, despite the logistics and customs clearance? belay

          Two years ago we were told on all channels how Europe would bend without exporting to Russia. Bent over? This is how Turkey and Egypt will not bend, only prices will become higher. lol

          Now the main thing is that China does not "knock out nichrome", otherwise we will again be "smart" in brown and with a cell or with spots, an incubator, because our textile workers had no fancy for joy. wassat

          Sorry for the "rhetoric" .. but ... HURT soldier
          1. Linkor
            Linkor 27 November 2015 11: 26 New
            +3
            I agree! Our leadership needs to learn diplomacy. And then some show off.
          2. Zlatik
            Zlatik 28 November 2015 06: 48 New
            +2
            Your head is out of order! You’re foolish!
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. The comment was deleted.
      2. ancient
        ancient 27 November 2015 09: 43 New
        +2
        Quote: Cap.Morgan
        At any approach of Turkish aviation to the war zone.


        Is it possible from now on ... in more detail? wassat "After all, how do you put it" .. "to get closer" to the ZBD and ... "being on Turkish territory" so what?
        And TSAs generally allow ..nothing to enter and not to approach anything ... since then, in this case ... to act?
        An article in the style of .. "XXII Congress of the CPSU" ... no more.

        Nobody forgot I hope that our AB is only 40 km from the Turkish border and on it .. "parade line" is everything, or almost everything .. what flies from it? soldier
        1. perm23
          perm23 27 November 2015 12: 29 New
          +1
          Yes, Alexander, you have not added positive. I read, I think, and damn it. not very well. And eternal Russian questions. What to do? I will not ask about the guilty. .
        2. alicante11
          alicante11 27 November 2015 13: 47 New
          +3
          Nobody forgot I hope that our AB is only 40 km from the Turkish border and on it .. "parade line" is everything, or almost everything .. what flies from it? soldier


          Considering that on the one hand there are Jews, on the other, Turks with amers, I don’t think of any Saudis, and for all the airplanes it’s unimportant, absolutely no difference, they are in full charge or not. Plus there is no AWACS. If it goes rubilovo, then ours will be cut out for several hours even in the air. I hope that at least someone has time to take with them. But this will already be a full-blown conflict, which neither the West nor we are ready for.
          1. Zlatik
            Zlatik 28 November 2015 06: 53 New
            +1
            They will be tormented by cutting! We do not have to tighten our aircraft for a short time (read how many airplanes we have)! And there is still something else for them, goats! In general, you have long been a member of the party called ALL SURROUNDED!
    2. inkass_98
      inkass_98 27 November 2015 07: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: Waltasar
      Will the F-16 manage to get away from the rocket in this situation?

      The claimed characteristics allow you to shoot down targets flying at speeds up to 5 km / s at ranges up to 400 km. F-16 can fly at half the second space speed?
      And shooting down in response may not be necessary if the adversary does not violate the boundaries of the flight zone prescribed for him, but going beyond this zone will probably be punished immediately, even before the aggressive actions against our aircraft.
      1. Waltasar
        Waltasar 27 November 2015 07: 27 New
        +2
        If righteous anger is delayed, can we legally ban Turkish planes from flying over Turkey?
        1. WUA 518
          WUA 518 27 November 2015 07: 40 New
          11
          Quote: Waltasar
          can we legally ban Turkish planes from flying over Turkey?

          No. Based on the Chicago Convention, it is recognized that each state has complete and exclusive sovereignty over airspace over its territory.
        2. kuz363
          kuz363 27 November 2015 07: 46 New
          +4
          And in response, they will legally close the Bosphorus to Russia. They are entitled if they consider that the actions of Russia pose a danger to them. Read the Montreux Convention.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 27 November 2015 08: 55 New
            +5
            Closing the straits legally means declaring war. That is the essence of the straits treaties.
            1. ancient
              ancient 27 November 2015 10: 06 New
              +4
              Quote: EvilLion
              Closing the straits legally means declaring war.


              So yes .. but "declare" and really "start" .. these are two big differences, but for the legal justification of the closure of the straits ..... is quite suitable.
          2. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 27 November 2015 09: 05 New
            0
            Quote: kuz363
            And in response, they will legally close the Bosphorus to Russia. They are entitled if they consider that the actions of Russia pose a danger to them. Read the Montreux Convention.
            So it will be a declaration of war - by the same convection
      2. kuz363
        kuz363 27 November 2015 07: 50 New
        +1
        He will manage to leave for Turkish territory if he detects a missile launch or radar irradiation. And if the rocket catches up with him in Turkey, then there will already be embarrassment for Russia.
        1. Waltasar
          Waltasar 27 November 2015 08: 05 New
          +3
          When attacking the SU-24 F-16 and did not leave its territory.
          The question is the inevitability of punishment - a fighter that has a head start in time (let go of its territory and drape) or a rocket that has greater speed, but which fly a couple of hundred kilometers.
          In my opinion, in this scenario only cover fighters will be real protection. The complexes are more likely psychological or in a serious collision will help.
          1. FM-78
            FM-78 28 November 2015 02: 14 New
            0
            We can send the same greetings, even from Tyumen.
        2. alicante11
          alicante11 27 November 2015 13: 50 New
          +3
          He will manage to leave for Turkish territory if he detects a missile launch or radar irradiation. And if the rocket catches up with him in Turkey, then there will already be embarrassment for Russia.


          Why? Let’s make an honest person like Erdogan and say that they shot down over Syria and fell at Ankara, strong Americans make planes, damn it ...
          1. Nosgoth
            Nosgoth 27 November 2015 14: 53 New
            +4
            Experience shows that we do not know how to make such a person ... only to "categorically object" and "cause concern" in all our powerlessness. sad
            1. FM-78
              FM-78 28 November 2015 02: 18 New
              0
              Strange ... but our Jewish friends think differently!
          2. ancient
            ancient 27 November 2015 15: 15 New
            -1
            Quote: alicante11
            Let’s make an honest person like Erdogan and say that they shot down over Syria and fell at Ankara, strong Americans make planes, damn it ...


            I absolutely agree +! But ..... below you already answered dear Nosgothyes so answered good ... that there are no more questions left ... him +! drinks
          3. FM-78
            FM-78 28 November 2015 02: 15 New
            0
            It will be embarrassing, but not for us.
      3. ancient
        ancient 27 November 2015 10: 04 New
        +6
        Quote: inkass_98
        The claimed characteristics allow you to shoot down targets flying at speeds up to 5 km / s at ranges up to 400 km. F-16 can fly at half the second space speed?


        This is "what are you going to do" .. "to shoot as much as 400 versts" belay

        Again in style .. fellow- "We will tear everyone apart"? ... And the result ... there is no AWACS, Reconnaissance (although the Il-20M) seems to be as it is ... there are no cover fighters, there are no group defense planes AT ALL ... except for "urya-lozugnov from KRET about .... expandable composition " wassat
        Where is the Tu-241R .. where is the "Cutters" ????
        Or again ... on the "Russian avos" .. "go on" Broadway ".. out? wassat

        Oh yeah ... "we signed it" .. "we owe them all the flight plans" .. "we are like that .. in all white" ... and so .... what is it? soldier
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 27 November 2015 10: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: ancient
          Oh yeah ... "we signed it" .. "we owe them all the flight plans" .. "we are like that .. in all white" ... and so .... what is it?

          Sashulya, but will it fail to transfer MIG-29SE or MIG-29 M2 to Latakia soon? In order to increase the fighter component.
          1. ancient
            ancient 27 November 2015 10: 53 New
            +5
            Quote: NEXUS
            Sashulya, but will it fail to transfer MIG-29SE or MIG-29 M2 to Latakia soon?


            Mig-29M2 will not work, because ... is not available recourse , MiG-29SE the Syrians have their own .. enough, only there is now SM and .. there is a little "almost SMT" bully
            But the "Kursk SMT" could be .. quite .. just ... "put" is not where recourse
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 27 November 2015 15: 25 New
              +1
              Quote: ancient
              But the "Kursk SMT" could be .. quite .. just ... "put" is not where

              Wait, my friend, but that airfield that was recaptured from the ISIS ... it can go beyond the "jump" airfield ...
        2. alicante11
          alicante11 27 November 2015 13: 52 New
          +4
          Again in the style of .. fellow- "we will break everyone"? ... And the result ... there is no AWACS, Intelligence (although IL-20M) seems to be like


          Even if it were, it won’t help. Too disparate forces. The calculation of what will not be decided. But with such an ostrich position, perhaps, they will just decide.
          1. ancient
            ancient 27 November 2015 15: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: alicante11
            But with such an ostrich position, perhaps, they will just decide.


            What happened belay .. such a sharp metamorphosis? wink

            Although ... better late ... than never, +! drinks
        3. Zlatik
          Zlatik 28 November 2015 06: 57 New
          +1
          The hand of the provocateur is visible, filthy!
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 27 November 2015 09: 15 New
      +3
      Quote: Waltasar
      Will have to attack already in response

      Why is this in response? It’s clearly said that everything that will pose at least some danger will be stunned, and Turkish planes, by definition, are already a source of danger and they will stall without warning if they cross the Syrian border. I’m sure that MIG-31 will appear in Syria, if they haven’t yet. That is, everyone is preparing to completely nullify the fighter component of the Turks near the borders of Syria, and in the event of a Turkish aircraft being intercepted, Erdogan had no way to respond with a blow to his group in Latakia.
      1. Scraptor
        Scraptor 27 November 2015 09: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: NEXUS
        if they cross the border of Syria

        it was not said ...
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 27 November 2015 09: 53 New
          +3
          Quote: Scraptor
          it was not said ...

          Turkish President Recep Erdogan said he would consider an act of aggression against Turkish sovereignty a situation if a Turkish military plane that violated Syrian airspace was shot down using a Russian anti-aircraft complex. He stated this in an interview with CNN.

          “Of course, this will be an act of aggression against our sovereignty. We, like any other state, will defend it with military force, ”the Turkish President said.

          Erdogan also noted that he considers such a development of events quite probable. He specified that in such a situation Turkey would take “urgent measures”, but did not specify which ones.

          Do you still doubt that this geek will doubt something about decisions on our account? So that he did not create an act of aggression, but the right to self-defense, and if he will shoot down his planes, this is an act of aggression.
          It seemed to me alone that Erdogan, as a force, does not put us in anything, and that Washington is behind him?
          1. Sheikh
            Sheikh 27 November 2015 11: 55 New
            +1
            Quote: NEXUS
            Quote: Scraptor
            it was not said ...

            Turkish President Recep Erdogan said he would consider an act of aggression against Turkish sovereignty a situation if a Turkish military plane that violated Syrian airspace was shot down using a Russian anti-aircraft complex. He stated this in an interview with CNN.

            “Of course, this will be an act of aggression against our sovereignty. We, like any other state, will defend it with military force, ”the Turkish President said.

            Erdogan also noted that he considers such a development of events quite probable. He specified that in such a situation Turkey would take “urgent measures”, but did not specify which ones.

            Do you still doubt that this geek will doubt something about decisions on our account? So that he did not create an act of aggression, but the right to self-defense, and if he will shoot down his planes, this is an act of aggression.
            It seemed to me alone that Erdogan, as a force, does not put us in anything, and that Washington is behind him?


            well, Erdogan may have senile changes in consciousness, not American orders.
            and why shoot down planes? if the pilot sees that he is being irradiated in combat mode, he will not launch a rocket, if not a kamikaze; and nobody canceled the possible combat work of the electronic warfare, or everyone wants to start an air war, as in a computer, such as a shooter, I agree, it’s very good to disperse your roof in front of the monitor. nicely.
      2. ancient
        ancient 27 November 2015 10: 09 New
        +3
        Quote: NEXUS
        , Erdogan had no opportunity to respond with a strike of his aircraft against a group in Latakia.


        Andrey, dear ..... and that only Turkish aviation can strike an airbase? Measure the distance with a ruler ... you will be "surprised" that if you wish, you can reach the base .. "even from a slingshot"! soldier
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 27 November 2015 10: 26 New
          +2
          Quote: ancient
          Andrey, dear ..... and that only Turkish aviation can strike an airbase? Measure the distance with a ruler ... you will be "surprised" that if you wish, you can reach the base .. "even from a slingshot"!

          I know, Sasha ... but in order not only to reach our base with aviation, it is necessary to pull this "not only" to the firing range ... or do you think we are completely blind and will not notice the redeployment of the Turkish forces?
          1. ancient
            ancient 27 November 2015 10: 55 New
            +5
            Quote: NEXUS
            .or do you think we are completely blind and do not notice the redeployment of Turkish forces?


            Andrey .... if everything depended on us, then .... but how "to check" (I mean the shot down su-24) it turned out that not only blind, but also ... "gullible" wassat
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 27 November 2015 14: 21 New
              +2
              Quote: ancient
              Andrey .... if everything depended on us, then .... but how "to check" (I mean the shot down su-24) it turned out that not only blind, but also ... "gullible"

              Sasha, but now I think we won’t step on this rake ... let's see how everything goes further.
              Well, we'll take a closer look at the Turk.
              1. Nosgoth
                Nosgoth 27 November 2015 14: 57 New
                +1
                the key for you is "I think", i.e. the same "maybe" :-(
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. ancient
                ancient 27 November 2015 15: 26 New
                +1
                Quote: NEXUS
                but now I think we’ll not step on this rake


                Andrei ... an adult and respected by me man ... do you believe in fairy tales? wink

                Remember how in an unusual concert Obraztsova? wassat listen accented from 0.59-1.03 lol

                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 27 November 2015 15: 29 New
                  +1
                  Quote: ancient
                  Andrei ... an adult and respected by me man ... do you believe in fairy tales?

                  Sashulya drinks Well, you understand that if you don’t believe in anything (even in such tales), then the kirdyk will come much earlier. A Russian person needs to believe in something, otherwise it makes no sense to live and even more so to defend something. You are an officer and you know what I mean. I shake my hand. Although your skepticism saddens me. wink
                  Sincerely, friend. We will live! drinks
                  1. aksakal
                    aksakal 27 November 2015 17: 16 New
                    +2
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    You’re an officer and you know what I mean. I shake hands. At least your skepticism makes me sad. wink
                    Sincerely, friend. We will live!
                    - does not upset, but even jars. You read such an "expert" - and it's funny. An expert has been sitting and has been broadcasting for three years now, as in Russian videoconferencing, everything is bad - I have not read any other posts from such an "expert". So not as bad as this "expert" wrote. I urge members of the forum to be skeptical about the providence of this "expert". For four years now I have been reading his "expertise" - it seems with knowledge of the matter, the details are stated, one feels like a former flyer. Believe it. Yes, only not a single "prediction" of this expert for 4 years came true, everything happened the other way around.
                    Firstly, judging by how the Turkish pilot shot down the Russian bomber, as well as by the way the same Turkish flyers wanted to shoot down the Syrian MiG-29, and the latter thought of aiming at them in response, which led to the mass flight of Turkish flyers - the Turkish Faberge flyers are not even made of plastic, but of foam. ALL THE SCENARIOS that this would-be "expert" painted here are based on the steel Faberge flyers, who still have competent commanders. Such flyers in that area are only the Russians themselves and a little to the south - the Jews, whose plans to fight the Russians are not included. And if so, then the "expert" painted an implausible scenario. In real life, it will be like this - only the Turkish F-16 violated the Syrian border, even if he has an order to specifically do this for the purpose of provocation, as soon as it receives a signal of irradiation, it will turn around and back at the moment, or even catapult immediately, without waiting for the arrival of the rocket , which has not even been launched yet laughing
                    So if the Americans decide to attack along with the Jews, of course, they will cut the Russian group at the moment, although they will suffer good losses. And if only the Turks? laughing laughing laughing Then there is nothing to fear, the measures already taken are redundant
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 27 November 2015 17: 30 New
                      +1
                      Quote: aksakal
                      does not upset, but even jars. You read such an "expert" - and it's funny. An expert has been sitting and has been broadcasting for three years now, as in Russian videoconferencing, everything is bad - I have not read other posts from such an "expert". So not as bad as this "expert" wrote. I urge members of the forum to be skeptical about the providence of this "expert"

                      You shouldn’t be so. A man speaks sensibly and reasonably. And on the account of predictions, forgive me, he’s not Wang or even Casey. And everyone can voice his opinion here, then he is a forum. Healthy skepticism is sometimes more useful than patriotic blindness .
                      You can agree, or bring your own counter-arguments. And to go down to the level of "himself ... ak", because you do not share his point of view, in my opinion it is impossible.
            2. Stena
              Stena 27 November 2015 17: 01 New
              +1
              Quote: ancient
              it turned out that not only blind, but also ... "gullible"

              The blind are too gullible.
      3. Nosgoth
        Nosgoth 27 November 2015 14: 55 New
        +2
        said, does not mean what has been done.

        In March 2014, too much was said ...
    4. jeezar
      jeezar 27 November 2015 13: 16 New
      0
      If the attack was from Turkey - I think there will catch up and add.
  3. andrei.yandex
    andrei.yandex 27 November 2015 07: 01 New
    +2
    You can scold, say that I’m wrong, but without bringing the matter to mind in Ukraine, we are drawn into the Syrian war. Still passing information, but not yet confirmed that a conflict is brewing on the Tajik-Afghan border. There are no obvious results in foreign policy, but in the domestic one there are only failures: education, medicine, agriculture, housing and communal services. We need to think about it, the analogy with Nikolai the second can be traced, who knows the events of the beginning of the 20th century, starting in 1905, he will understand me.
    1. Stena
      Stena 27 November 2015 17: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: andrei.yandex
      We need to think about it, the analogy with Nikolai the second can be traced, who knows the events of the beginning of the 20th century, starting in 1905, he will understand me.

      An analogy, except that the whole world is against Russia. But under Nicholas the Second, betrayal took place within the country. And now this seems to be in full order (I mean - that they are actively fighting traitors of various stripes and scales).
      Quote: andrei.yandex
      There are no obvious results in foreign policy, but in the domestic one there are only failures: education, medicine, agriculture, housing and communal services.
      Nicholas II, on the contrary, had everything - both with education (up to the introduction of universal secondary education - the prerequisites were laid precisely under Him), and with agriculture and industry (in terms of economic growth were in 4th place in the world, with the prospect of exit to a dominant role).
      And now with us - in agricultural - we are taking on the first roles (bypassing the RSFSR in the production of grain, if memory serves in 2014). Unfortunately, many types of healthy fruits and vegetables, as well as plants - we grow poorly - bananas, tangerines, apparently - and tomatoes too ...
      Work is underway - new enterprises are being built. In education - the military returned to the Hamiltonian education system. There is hope that they will move away from the Bologna system everywhere ... Maybe not so fast, but you need to wait and get ready ...
    2. Albus
      Albus 27 November 2015 21: 55 New
      0
      What's the use of whining so much? Zadolbali you whiners. Sit on fat buttocks and look for analogies. Everything is done optimally, taking into account the possibilities and the current moment.
  4. blizart
    blizart 27 November 2015 07: 11 New
    +6
    After an extremely controversial decision was made on single combat sorties, the appearance of casualties was to be expected one way or another. Just because no one will suffer the loss of such money. Now the escalation of the conflict and the buildup of the group of forces is evident, which was predicted by many. The situation for Russia is very difficult both on the external front and inside the country. I would like to hope that the leadership and people of Russia are ready for a flaring up struggle.
    1. ICT
      ICT 27 November 2015 07: 19 New
      +3
      Quote: blizart
      the appearance of losses one way or another was to be expected



      Well, in general, we already understood the military and intelligence in this case is not to blame, not the finalization just by politicians (foreign ministry, pancreas), but we pay as usual for ordinary people
      1. kuz363
        kuz363 27 November 2015 07: 40 New
        +4
        Not politicians, but specialists in the General Staff. they were too lazy to pick up the Afghan archives and read how the USSR planes acted there. What tactics, cover and stuff
      2. perm23
        perm23 27 November 2015 08: 19 New
        +2
        The military is also to blame. Well, the military can’t not think about what they can attack. I must think that it was like that in Afghanistan.
      3. ancient
        ancient 27 November 2015 10: 12 New
        0
        Quote: TIT
        Well, we actually already understood the military and intelligence in this case is not to blame


        On the contrary ... the "MILITARY" are to blame for what happened (they do not mean subordinates, but only .. "BALSHE STARS" .. which flash on TV screens)
        Well .... YOURSELF, although he is something to blame ... he is in this business ... in general, "say and do" are two different things soldier
    2. kuz363
      kuz363 27 November 2015 07: 44 New
      +1
      The fact is that Turkey has the advantage of aviation in that area. Apart from US military bases. And the capabilities of the Syrian base to receive a large number of Russian aircraft are limited. Plus, you still have to overtake there, weakening other areas of defense.
    3. Inq
      Inq 27 November 2015 09: 34 New
      -7
      Does it not occur to you that the DRYER was simply "exchanged" for the ability to shoot down anything and everything?
      1. Arikkhab
        Arikkhab 28 November 2015 02: 52 New
        0
        yes, with such "cool" logic, it will be possible to say that Russia itself organized an attack on the su-24, in order to firstly direct the flow of tourists to the Crimea from Turkey, and in the course of the second to shit Edorgan in his pants
        ps this is not my point of view
    4. andrei.yandex
      andrei.yandex 27 November 2015 12: 42 New
      0
      Would you think about your country, where would you go without Russia?
  5. Ivan Tartugai
    Ivan Tartugai 27 November 2015 07: 25 New
    +4
    “The Russian armed forces are clearly demonstrating that in no case should they quarrel with them.”
    The list of proposed and executed events of the RF Ministry of Defense is impressive, but there is no special faith in the words and promises of our generals. All generals have such a psychology to exaggerate their merits and reduce their losses. Even during the Great Patriotic War, generals talked about their trophies and their victories to the very Supreme Commander-in-Chief Stalin IV. Even Suvorov AV was not sinless in this.
    Therefore, the best demonstration of the effectiveness of air defense systems is a downed jackal of Turkish F-16 or some other air force, which made an attempt to attack our planes and our other facilities. And to show on all channels how the enemy plane burns and crashes. Show, as shown by our downed SU-24.
    This will be the best demonstration of the forces and capabilities of the Russian Air Defense.
    1. Stena
      Stena 27 November 2015 17: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: Ivan Tartugay
      Even during the Great Patriotic War, generals talked about their trophies and their victories to the very Supreme Commander-in-Chief Stalin IV. Even Suvorov AV was not sinless in this.

      Never in my life Suvorov A.V. did not ask for rewards for himself. But for rewards for the wards, he fought to the end and stood a mountain.
      Quote: Ivan Tartugay
      Therefore, the best demonstration of the effectiveness of air defense systems is a downed jackal F-16 Turkish or any other air force

      Why do the Turks have animals (jackals) flying instead of pilots? Then, in general, everyone will have a khan when they put people at the wheels! He had to say something: "Oh no, I won't shoot down this plane! He is Russian." Of course wait more! They were preparing, preparing, and then bam - and the pilots' conscience woke up. The pilot did his job. And regrettably, he did it well. If he was a coward or an inept, he would not have been sent on a mission.
      Quote: Ivan Tartugay
      Show, as shown by our downed SU-24.

      And why on all channels show our SU? And in every tattered article they write, not what has been done, but because of what. If every day you see how the planes of your country are being shot down, then at a subconscious level fig thoughts begin to come to mind. This is the information war. And our torn media participate in it, unfortunately, not on our side!
      1. Ivan Tartugai
        Ivan Tartugai 27 November 2015 18: 23 New
        -1
        About Suvorov AB read JEL.
        "He had to say something," Oh no, I won't shoot down this plane! He is Russian. "
        Yes, he, the pilot of the F-16, should have said just that: "Oh no, I will not shoot down this plane! He is Russian, and the Russians are fighting IS". If he didn't say so, then this pilot is a fighter-ish, and that means a jackal.
        No, it is necessary to show how air defense of the Russian Federation is shot down by planes that are trying to attack our planes and objects. And show on all channels. Then the population will have pride in their Armed Forces, the people will feel that in the RF Ministry of Defense not only the Serdyukovs and Vasilyevs, but also similar thieves and hucksters "serve". Yes, and overseas they will really see that jokes are bad with the RF Armed Forces and that one must behave decently, otherwise you will hit your head on the ground hurt.
        1. Stena
          Stena 27 November 2015 18: 56 New
          +1
          Quote: Ivan Tartugay
          About Suvorov AB read JEL.

          What is ZHEL? If I meant - Life of Wonderful People (which described the thoughts of Kutuzov MI during the Battle of Borodino, for example ...), then the source, to put it mildly, is not. Never in my life Suvorov A.V. I did not ask myself for awards or titles.
          Quote: Ivan Tartugay
          Yes, he, the pilot of the F-16, should have said just that: "Oh no, I won't shoot down this plane! He is Russian, and the Russians are fighting IS"

          Then he’s a shitty pilot of the Turkish Air Force. He is given the task - he performs. Just like ours they set the task - they carry out. They ask before the task is completed, and not during it ... It is necessary to think before the war, and during the war - it is necessary to fight ...
          Quote: Ivan Tartugay
          No, it is necessary to show how air defense of the Russian Federation is shot down by planes that are trying to attack our planes and objects.

          How old are you?
          Quote: Ivan Tartugay
          No, it is necessary to show how the air defense of the Russian Federation shot down aircraft

          What is air defense of the Russian Federation, in your opinion? That's when they begin to show how the air defense of the Russian Federation shot down enemy planes - this means an attack on the territory of the Russian Federation - and that means - hello - 3rd World War. You need to think with your head, and not only there ...
          1. Ivan Tartugai
            Ivan Tartugai 27 November 2015 21: 03 New
            0
            ZHZL not a bad source.
            To be a “worthless Turkish Air Force pilot” or ISIS fighter, a jackal, this is the choice of the man who sat at the helm of the F-16. He made a choice, chose the second, i.e. the ISIS fighter was a jackal, but he chose freely, for example, maybe for money for old age or for an asterisk for epaulettes, or for a medal on his chest, or maybe involuntarily it doesn't matter anymore. He made a choice, he shot down the Su-24, became a fighter of Igil, and maybe he was already.
            My age doesn't matter.
            How the air defense of the Russian Federation is now considered the land group of the air defense base of Khmeimim in Syria and the air defense system "Fort" missile cruiser "Moscow".
    2. FM-78
      FM-78 28 November 2015 00: 40 New
      0
      Kazakhstan Ivan - shot directly from the tongue.
      1. Ivan Tartugai
        Ivan Tartugai 28 November 2015 06: 10 New
        0
        In Kazakhstan, too, there are Ivanes, and not a few.
  6. Sars
    Sars 27 November 2015 07: 27 New
    -1
    It is known about the transfer to Syria of 10-12 Su-27 fighters. It is clear that our fleet is not as numerous as we would like. But there is also a MiG-31. They could significantly strengthen our group. And the Russian base of Gyumri in Armenia needs to be strengthened as much as possible, in which case the Turks from there could insert a reciprocal knife in the back.
    1. WUA 518
      WUA 518 27 November 2015 07: 36 New
      +6
      Quote: SarS
      But there is also a MiG-31.

      What should Syria do to a long-range interceptor?
      1. Sars
        Sars 27 November 2015 08: 13 New
        0
        For what did the Syrians deliver them?
        1. WUA 518
          WUA 518 27 November 2015 09: 15 New
          +3
          Quote: SarS
          For what did the Syrians deliver them?
          The news of the delivery of the MiG-31 to Syria turned out to be a duck.

          Russia has not supplied Syria with six long-range MiG-31 interceptors, Sergei Korotkov, head of RAC MiG, told Interfax.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. kuz363
      kuz363 27 November 2015 07: 37 New
      +1
      And how many of these MIG-31? Can you count on the fingers?
    3. perm23
      perm23 27 November 2015 08: 21 New
      +1
      Here in Armenia it is necessary to prepare and bring down. 16 fly there
  7. WUA 518
    WUA 518 27 November 2015 07: 27 New
    +2
    Quote: inkass_98
    even before aggressive actions against our aircraft.
    The cockpit will play "music"!
  8. kuz363
    kuz363 27 November 2015 07: 35 New
    +9
    "Not the most far-sighted and clever actions of the Turkish leadership and the air force." The same can be said about the General Staff and the Russian leadership when planning operations near the Turkish border.
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 27 November 2015 09: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: kuz363
      "Not the most far-sighted and clever actions of the Turkish leadership and the air force." The same can be said about the General Staff and the Russian leadership when planning operations near the Turkish border.
      This is exactly, it is still unknown whose actions will turn out to be not the most far-sighted and smart in the end. In fact, the Turks shot down our military plane insolently and still promise to shoot down further. Our convoy in response bombed the Turkish, let's see what next
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. Belousov
    Belousov 27 November 2015 08: 57 New
    +1
    Aircraft protection is needed, incl. and from the air. But the main thing is different - the border must be cleared without being distracted by all sorts of "liberal" cries. And then on the echo of the matzah yesterday was the wording that ours had bombed a humanitarian convoy.
  11. rudolff
    rudolff 27 November 2015 09: 22 New
    +3
    It’s possible to do some trickery. Syria makes an official statement recognizing Turkey as a state supporting terrorism and that henceforth does not consider Turkey a member of the anti-terrorist coalition. At the same time he warns that any violation of airspace by Turkey will be considered an act of aggression, and all planes will be shot down. As part of the military-technical cooperation, we are transferring the necessary air defense systems to Syria, up to the S-300. Perhaps some kind of aircraft. What kind of crews will be there, the tenth matter. Ukraine delivered Buk air defense missile systems to Georgia with its volunteers who shot down our planes. Everyone knew this, but formally Ukraine was not a participant in the hostilities. What prevents us from doing so too?
    But the combined arms group in Syria, we still have to increase, whether we want it or not. Apparently there will not be a quick victory for the Syrian army with the support of our VKS. We climbed in there seriously and for a long time.
    1. ancient
      ancient 27 November 2015 10: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: rudolff
      Syria makes an official statement recognizing Turkey as a state supporting terrorism and that henceforth does not consider Turkey a member of the anti-terrorist coalition. At the same time warns that any


      Hello, friend .... drinks Everything is possible, but ... even earlier, the ban on flights over its territory, Syria did not .. "declared", but you want it ...
      And if this "appears", then the Turks will have every reason to conduct b.d with Syria .. and who in this case can fall under the "distribution"? That's right, we .. and then .. the statements of the Turks like .. "but we did not see and did not know that this is a Russian plane" .. will pass at once!
      I agree with everything else TOTALLY! + soldier
      1. rudolff
        rudolff 27 November 2015 10: 52 New
        +6
        Hello ancient friend! Yes, there are no ideal options at all. It smelled like a pie sharing and Turkey most likely won't stop. And not only Turkey. There is little chance that Syria will remain within its former borders. As for our base in Latakia, in the event of an open confrontation with the Turks, it has practically no chance of surviving. And we cannot help from our territory. We no longer have a common border with them (Georgia), there is no Warsaw Pact (Bulgaria), they have the keys to the straits, the fleet has degraded, there is no question of any landing operation. The Turks understand all this very well. They are already starting to muddy the waters in Nagorno-Karabakh. Our entire calculation was on "puffing out the cheeks", on the fright. Calibers from the Caspian in transit through a couple of states, strategists around the whole of Europe ... It seems that not everyone was impressed and the prospects are rather gloomy. As in the case of Ukraine, we missed a good chance. Had we deployed our Air Force there at least a year or two ago, the situation would have been completely different. Palmyra was handed over only in May, and now try to take it back! In short, they got into concrete.
        1. ancient
          ancient 27 November 2015 15: 31 New
          +3
          Quote: rudolff
          Our entire reckoning was on "puffing out the cheeks", on fright. Calibers from the Caspian in transit through a couple of states, strategists around the whole of Europe ... It seems that not everyone was impressed and the prospects are rather gloomy. As in the case of Ukraine, we missed a good chance. Had we deployed our Air Force there at least a year or two ago, the situation would have been completely different. Palmyra was handed over only in May, and now try to take it back! In short, they got into concrete.


          What can I say ..... VERY ARGUMENTED and CLEARLY SUBMITTED ... everything is done as the OLD WARRIORS-VETERANS OF THE SOVIET "BATTLE TRAINING" SCHOOL soldier

          SKILL .. you never .. "drink" + drinks
  12. Gray 43
    Gray 43 27 November 2015 09: 36 New
    -4
    It’s better not to immediately bring down violators, but first try to plant a lesson for yourself, a bully, and for our specialists, a visual aid
    1. INF
      INF 27 November 2015 20: 30 New
      0
      The idea is certainly good, but what to do next? Then there are two options for the development of events: bring to trial (jury ... the point is clear) or execute (call me to cut your head?) To treat with bread and salt? (And this is our everything). The remaining options are similar to masturbation, which is engaged in anyone but the Russians. Sadness.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. tasha
    tasha 27 November 2015 11: 57 New
    -1
    For modern Russia, this is the first experience of using its armed forces in military operations abroad (not counting participation in peacekeeping operations). Therefore, much will be unexpected for us. Explosions of our planes, attacks and executions of our citizens, car bombings, operations to rescue pilots from conditionally neutral / hostile territory. You have to be ready.
    Specifically on the occasion of the Su-24. Ground support for the air operation is not organized. I hope that the necessary conclusions will be made.
    1. Arikkhab
      Arikkhab 28 November 2015 02: 43 New
      -1
      ground? and how? first: we actually have a small piece of land in latakia, and with "all due respect" to the s-400 system to the place where the plane was shot down from latakia about 100 km, so even if a Turkish f-16 jumped into Syrian space for 10 seconds, then the rocket simply would not have time to reach him. it is impossible to pull up the air defense closer to the border due to the lack of control of the Syrian army in these areas. second: the terrain is mountainous, which gives blind spots in the radar coverage, both stationary and from ships, and for some reason Russia does not use drlo aircraft, although if the A-50 Avax was in the air, the loss of the aircraft could have been avoided
  15. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 27 November 2015 14: 06 New
    +1
    I wonder why it is customary for us to justify the sloppiness, laziness and unprofessionalism of generals by a treacherous attack? You understand these scoundrels, we believed them, but they wondered what - it’s not us stupid hats, they treacherously attacked. And everyone agrees - yes, yes, what treachery ah-yay, we are not to blame, champagne and orders! I wonder who else our generals trust? Will America's "treacherous" attack on us soon happen? What kind of slovens are they sitting there that they believe in everyone? Should citizens write letters to the General Staff - "Dear generals, do not believe the Turks, they have been promising in the newspapers for a month that they will shoot down our planes. Please cover them with fighters so that ours do not die, we ask you."
    In any other country, after what happened, the Minister of Defense would have resigned, and if he had not, he would have been kicked out in disgrace. Nobody even thinks about this and doesn’t stutter about it, well, they shot something down there, so what, is it now possible to ruin people’s business on the authorities?
  16. gregor6549
    gregor6549 27 November 2015 14: 34 New
    +1
    Guys, no air defense systems will solve the problem with the safety of flights of Russian aviation over Syria. Yes. these systems can with certain but not 100% reliability cover the airfields of Russian aviation in Syria from air attacks. In the case of close air combat, they are useless. The only option, sadly, is to somehow agree with Turkey and other different Swedes on the division of responsibilities and which goals can be bombed and which cannot.
    After all, Turkey made it clear that bombing Turkmen Turks is not good and that
    The territory occupied by these Turks by the Turkmens is considered by Turkey as a buffer zone between Turkey and Syria. So geese tease. It’s clear that geese will want to pinch. And pinched. And if there is a chance of an unintentional flight of Russian aircraft in Turkish airspace, and such a probability is very high, it is also necessary to determine through negotiations how to make sure that such a flight does not end badly.
    All other options are not options.
  17. From Samara
    From Samara 27 November 2015 17: 29 New
    +1
    It was just necessary to strike at Incirlik base right away ... And so Turkey will not understand anything ... War, there is war ...
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 27 November 2015 17: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: From Samara
      It was just necessary to strike at Incirlik base right away ... And so Turkey will not understand anything ... War, there is war ...

      What? Caliber? Here are many forum users such reasoning that after the Caspian salvo, the panacea in all military matters is KR. But I’m grieving you, Turkey is not Zimbabwe, and it has its own air defense and fighter interceptors ... just a volley intercepted. And today we cannot create a sufficient volley density, in view of the small number of carriers. hi
      1. From Samara
        From Samara 27 November 2015 17: 43 New
        0
        Well, Turkey’s air defense has always been a weak point, they don’t even have a Patriot air defense system. The air forces raise questions, a lot of frank trash ...

        I don’t have to upset, there’s just no other way out, I still have to strike, the question is only time ...

        By the way ... I think it’s better to strike the Incirlik base with the Iskanders ... this is a mobile complex ...
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 27 November 2015 17: 45 New
          +1
          Quote: From Samara
          By the way ... I think it’s better to strike the Incirlik base with the Iskanders ... this is a mobile complex ...

          I have talked about Iskander more than once ... but they must first be pulled into Syria and Armenia ... but this is just Wishlist, and we’ll see how it will be.
          1. From Samara
            From Samara 27 November 2015 17: 49 New
            +1
            Why pull them up? S-400s were transferred per day ... and this is a more bulky cargo ... I won’t be surprised if they have been in Syria for a long time ...

            And we do not know everything about Caliber, there are a lot of modifications, there are ground-based complexes ...
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 27 November 2015 17: 59 New
              +1
              Quote: From Samara
              Why pull them up?

              You see what’s the matter here ... Iskanders can equip nuclear warheads, and NATO doesn’t have antidotes to these missiles, let alone Turkey, it’s a supersonic missile. And the transfer of such a complex will be accompanied by a lot of stench from the west. Starting with the stupid demonization of Russia in the world media ending with statements like “Russia wants to unleash the Third World War. There are also many pitfalls in this story.”
              1. From Samara
                From Samara 27 November 2015 18: 05 New
                +1
                The main thing is that we don’t know what will come of Syria as a result? The war is unpredictable ... And it’s useless to understand anything here ...

                By the way, what can a Caliber be equipped with a nuclear charge?
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 27 November 2015 18: 08 New
                  +1
                  Quote: From Samara
                  By the way, what can a Caliber be equipped with a nuclear charge?

                  I think it’s possible ... we have one more missile launcher with nuclear weapons, it’s X-102 ... but again, there are few carriers, this is the second and the second, the use of a nuclear charge will most likely lead to the Third World War. Although, I think, even such an option in MO considered.
                  1. From Samara
                    From Samara 27 November 2015 18: 13 New
                    0
                    I am almost sure that there will be a blow to Turkey. It’s just that the Turks have such a mentality ... they only understand the power ...

                    and Qatar can be hit if their involvement in the attack is confirmed ...

                    They probably won’t arrange Armagedon from this, I think in NATO I’m not ready for the nuclear end, it’s painfully sweet life for them, and Russia is a risky country ...
              2. padded jacket
                padded jacket 27 November 2015 18: 06 New
                0
                The Commander of the Russian Aerospace Forces presented the actual picture of the attack on the Su-24M

                http://www.discred.ru/news/glavkom_vks_rossii_predstavil_fakticheskuju_kartinu_a

                taki_na_su_24m/2015-11-27-17383
    2. Sheikh
      Sheikh 27 November 2015 18: 11 New
      -1
      Quote: From Samara
      It was just necessary to strike at Incirlik base right away ... And so Turkey will not understand anything ... War, there is war ...


      Yes Yes!
      and blood, blood!
      1. From Samara
        From Samara 27 November 2015 18: 17 New
        0
        Not all of this depends on me; it was not I who started it! Does a war without blood happen? No.
        1. Sheikh
          Sheikh 27 November 2015 18: 40 New
          0
          Well, of course, the main thing is not yours and not your relatives.
          it happens.
          1. From Samara
            From Samara 27 November 2015 18: 45 New
            0
            And this again does not depend on me. They can also mobilize me, while age allows ... and relatives can also mobilize, have to fight ...
  18. INF
    INF 27 November 2015 20: 22 New
    0
    Restaurants and cafes in the Russian Federation with Turkish names, urgently change signs, change hats, I feel trouble is coming.
  19. Severok
    Severok 27 November 2015 23: 27 New
    0
    There’s nothing to add, looking in the comments ...
    However:
    - Erdogan (I want obscenities - down-and-out) started talking from the very first day when he gave the green light to the downing of our pilots.
    - achieved a unique result, only independent ones achieved more - he turned the profits received from us, Russians and all Russia to the side so far from the coast of Turkey that there was probably nowhere to go.
    - recalled, not wanting it, the historical moments of Russian communication with its predecessors, Pasha and other Ottoman Empire to us, the Russian people.
    - with all that it implies, we need to prepare for even more difficult times that might recall the immemorial 90s. If ours miss the Turks or, God forbid, the Yankees get the Joker in the world game, then it will be difficult for us - almost all the worst "friends" will pile up.

    I have the honor.
  20. Arikkhab
    Arikkhab 28 November 2015 02: 28 New
    +1
    the question is: why do not the Russian videoconferencing in Syria use the A-50 A-50 to control the situation (so that the Turks do not hide behind the hill) and guidance? Of course, the A-XNUMX is a large plane, and there is no smaller complex in Russia, but still ...
  21. Hitrovan07
    Hitrovan07 28 November 2015 07: 43 New
    +2
    Erdogan MUST BE DESTROYED.