Military Review

Erdogan made worse than a crime - he was wrong

141
Erdogan made worse than a crime - he was wrongRussia will force Turkey to apologize in various ways - to ensure non-repetition of sabotage and to teach a lesson on how to behave with our country. But with all the need and imminence of bringing Erdogan back to life, one should not forget who benefits from the escalation of the Russian-Turkish conflict and its transfer to the stage of long-term confrontation. Certainly not Moscow, and not Ankara.


The Turkish leadership is already trying to mitigate the consequences of the destruction of the Russian military aircraft for bilateral relations. But, for example, the president is doing this in such a way that only worsens the situation - Erdogan’s statement that the Turks did not know whose plane they shot down cannot be called anything but a blatant lie. Prime Minister Davutolgu said that Ankara is not interested in exacerbating relations with Russia, because he considers her "friend and neighbor", but he also did not bring any apologies - the Turks continue to insist that they defended their territory.

Of course, Erdogan understood that the destruction of the aircraft would cause an acute crisis in relations with Russia, but at the same time he still believed that Putin would take his actions the way the Turkish president himself wanted: the Turks should be reckoned with more in the Syrian crisis, their role Syria cannot be understated in determining the future structure, and their position regarding both the Syrian Turkoman and the Syrian Kurds should be accepted by both Russia and the United States. Russia did not seek to annoy Turkey with its military operation, but objectively after the start of our actions aviation Erdogan felt humiliated. The fighting of the Syrian army with the support of Russian aviation in the area of ​​residence of the Syrian Turks, who are fighting both ISIS and Assad, pushed Ankara to make some kind of decision. Because it was silent to watch how troops consisting of even Syrian, but practically Turks, squeezed out of their territory, Ankara could not.

But instead of trying to agree with Russia and Damascus on the future of the Turkic population of Syria, Erdogan decided to go all-in - to demonstrate his coolness to Putin. It is not known what the two leaders spoke about ten days ago in Antalya, but it is clear that Erdogan was not satisfied with that conversation, and only after it and just a few hours after Putin’s trip to Tehran, that is, to historical Turkey’s rivals and Assad’s main allies, he decided to exponentially destroy the Russian aircraft. The solution, which, as it seemed to him, guarantees Turkey, albeit through a crisis in relations with Russia, an increase in the value of its shares both in the "Syrian hub" and in the Middle East as a whole, and even at the global level.

Did Erdogan have any reason to believe that Russia, although it will react violently to the destruction of the aircraft, will not threaten bilateral relations and after a while everything will return to normal? Most likely, he incorrectly assessed the soft reaction of Russia to his spring (after Putin’s trip to Yerevan) and autumn (after the start of the Syrian campaign) harsh statements to Moscow. Then Erdogan rather rudely publicly blackmailed Russia by the fact that it risks losing such an important partner as Turkey - in the first case because of the recognition of the genocide, and in the second because of the military support of Assad.

Putin did not respond in the same tone, and Erdogan most likely decided that bilateral relations and joint plans were the most expensive for the Kremlin. Turkey is very much needed by Russia, and nowhere will Moscow get away from it, especially in conditions of conflict with the West. Erdogan most likely did not consider the decision to bring down the plane as fateful: yes, the risk, yes, the increase in the rates, yes, the big game, but nothing, give it a ride. But it’s strange that during 12’s years of acquaintance with Putin, Erdogan, “Anatolian Putin,” as the West calls it all, as he used to measure all patterns, the West did not understand the character of the Russian president. Turkey is really very important to Russia - not only because of the current conflict with the United States, but also strategically - but Putin, like our country, does not forgive the betrayal, which was a stab in the back from the Turkish side. They do not forgive not the Turks, but Erdogan personally.

That is, the relationship is likely to recover even under Erdogan, when he apologizes for November 24, but the two leaders will not have personal confidence. This is the same thing that happened to Putin with Obama and the European leaders after the coup in Kiev in February 2014, when they first asked him to persuade Yanukovich to sign an agreement with the Maidan, and the next day, after his overthrow, they recognized the new government and " forgotten about the need to comply with the agreements guaranteed by the West. After such a personal relationship can be maintained, but with a person who does not comply with personal agreements, it is impossible to make plans for the future. And in the case of November 24, there was also a public insult to the country, that is, the situation is even worse.

But Putin, that is, Russia, offered a truly strategic partnership in the person of Erdogan of Turkey: while both parties remember the historical, and even today's geopolitical contradictions, it was possible to build mutually beneficial relations. All issues are solvable - and even Syrian - provided that both partners do not try to deceive each other and have at least partially coinciding interests. We have common interests: like Russia, Turkey is a sovereign state (NATO’s limiter is rather conditional, and in general Atlantic and supranational control over Turkey is much weaker than, for example, Germany), interested not just in strengthening its role in world, but also in the work on a new global architecture that will replace the “American-style world”.

Regional, national and even religious ambitions of Turkey do not necessarily have to conflict with the geopolitical and national interests of Russia. Especially if both countries agree that the main task for them is to strengthen their own civilization, and are ready to help each other in this work, and not to fight each other. One of the components of the Russian civilization is the Turkic element (starting with the same Tatars), and soon after the last Russian-Turkish war, which ended a hundred years ago, Moscow helped a lot to even leave a strong Turkish state from the Ottoman Empire.

Now there is a rivalry for influence in the Caucasus, but even a clash of interests in Georgia and Azerbaijan can, with a mutual desire, be translated into cooperation. Ankara’s attempts to become a leader for the Turkic peoples of Central Asia were largely unsuccessful, but the pan-Turkic project was doomed to failure anyway after Russia began returning to the post-Soviet space as an integrator and security guarantor. If Turkey does not pretend to oust Russia from Central Asia and does not play against us there, then everything else, including the delimitation of economic interests, can be agreed.

Pan-Islamic or pan-Arab ambitions of Turkey are not in fundamental contradiction with the interests of Russia (although they require us to take into account the interests of Iran), if, again, it does not consider itself as a “patron” of Russian Muslims. A large number of immigrants from the North Caucasus in Turkey, including former Chechen militants, does not mean at all that Ankara is doomed to be a center of anti-Russian forces. Experience the old, 19 century, Muhajir emigration from the North. The Caucasus (when, for example, many Adygs who fought with Russia during the Caucasian War left) shows that their descendants in their absolute majority no longer carry any special anti-Russian charge.

The rivalry in the Balkans, because of which, as well as because of the Caucasus, we mainly fought in the past, remains now, but even here both countries have at least a common competitor - the Germans and the European Union. Simply put, Turkey and Russia could work together and develop in the expanses of Eurasia - as heirs, even so different, of the Second Rome (Byzantium). As civilizations opposing the Atlantic project of a global melting pot, after all, Erdogan and Putin are patriots and nationalists, independent statesmen, and they are in favor of strengthening the traditional foundations of their civilization countries.

Agreeing on strategic cooperation with Russia, China, India and even Iran’s traditional rival Turkey would be much more profitable than playing games with the West, which each time ended for Istanbul, and then Ankara by simply using and deceiving them. And used in recent centuries, mainly for anti-Russian purposes.

And the most offensive for Turkey is that the current Erdogan adventure, which will not bring any benefits to the Turks, but only losses, can be used in the same way. True, the maximum damage would have been if Russia had led to provocation and, instead of teaching Erdogan, to start playing against Turkey as such, including playing the Kurdish card.

But, fortunately Turkey, Russia will not do this, because it is not in its strategic interests. We need a strong, friendly Turkey, just as it is needed by the nationally thinking and self-sufficient part of the Turkish elite, who understand the importance of serious relations with Russia. Turkey, like Russia, is not the West, and if Russia no longer plays other people's games, then, alas, Turkey can now be drawn into the anti-Russian combination, thanks to Erdogan. Of course, Erdogan did not want this, but he himself created a situation in which the atlantists have new opportunities for “playing Turkish”.

What Erdogan did was more than a crime, it was a mistake, and those who tried to organize a blockade would try to take advantage of it, and now they are doing everything to contain Russia. Now they will try to slay Russia and Turkey - naturally, while not acting openly - to do so in order to block the possibility of joint work between our two countries for decades. And to place Turkey in that anti-Russian redoubt, which the Atlantists gathered to build around Russia - from the Baltic to the Caucasus.

Another thing is that Russia is simultaneously working on building a broad front against the Atlantic project as such, and plans to build an anti-Russian redoubt will not be possible. But “forgetting” about Turkey or starting to spoil it wherever possible would be completely wrong. Hard to teach Erdogan a lesson should and should be, but without insulting Turkey and not pushing its people away from Russia.
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http://vz.ru/politics/2015/11/26/780299.html
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  1. gal
    gal 27 November 2015 11: 07 New
    67
    warning from 2010 on Turkey
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 27 November 2015 11: 11 New
      14
      27.11.2015, 10: 28


      Turkish military aviation suspended flights over Syrian territory as part of an international coalition operation against the “Islamic State” after the incident with the downed Russian Su-24 bomber. This was reported by local media with reference to diplomatic sources.

      Original news RT in Russian:
      https://russian.rt.com/article/133064
      1. Baikonur
        Baikonur 27 November 2015 11: 13 New
        19
        Erdogan committed worse than crime
        - having shot at our plane, he shot at the temple of Turkey!
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 27 November 2015 11: 24 New
          0
          Quote: Baikonur
          firing at our plane, he fired at a temple in Turkey!

          While there was no military response from Russia! Instead, Putin begs for some kind of apology and compensation that no one thinks to give. But Erdogan is already threatening! Erdogan: If the S-400 in Syria is shot down by a Turkish plane, we will answer!
          http://rusnovosti.ru/posts/397436
          It seems like our aviation and MLRS worked on the site of the crash of Su-24, and reported that they had left the scorched earth, but then why did the Syrian army still not take this place, since they killed all the militants?
          Russia will shoot at the temple of Turkey if it supports and arms the Kurds! Why are you shy? Turks are arming terrorists and nothing!
          1. djqnbdjqnb
            djqnbdjqnb 27 November 2015 11: 31 New
            38
            Quote: Stas157
            While there was no military response from Russia! Instead, Putin begs apologies and compensation.

            Do you want a missile strike in Turkey? But they want this in the USA too! This provocation was launched for this! Putin understands this, but you do not.
            1. Stas157
              Stas157 27 November 2015 11: 44 New
              19
              Quote: djqnbdjqnb
              Do you want a missile strike in Turkey? But they want this in the USA too! This provocation was launched for this! Putin understands this, but you do not.

              I did not write that I want this. I think it is urgent to help the Syrians occupy the Turkish border, it continues very slowly! And arm the Kurds! They themselves ask for it!

              A group of Kurds raising funds for Christian refugees in Kurdistan wrote on their social media page that the Kurds wanted to avenge the dead Russian Su-24 pilots in the sky over Syria.

              “Dear Russia, we Kurds will be happy to avenge your pilots. Just give us MANPADS, we will make a good no-fly zone for Erdogan, ”the report said.
              1. Al_oriso
                Al_oriso 27 November 2015 12: 58 New
                +4
                Kurds overdo it, it is indisputable. And it is dangerous.
                What is better to do to Putin?
                Punish Erdogan himself (how? So far no one knows), and not Turkey.
                This is the meaning of the author of the article, which (meaning) I do not quite like.
                You can’t get involved in a shootout.
                Although, if Turkish aircraft and equipment appear in Syria, they should disappear, otherwise why the hell they brought so many weapons there.
              2. Johnny51
                Johnny51 27 November 2015 15: 12 New
                0
                The enemy of my enemy is my friend? You forgot that Putin is not engaged in subversive activities, i.e. Does he deal ONLY with a legitimate government? It is “our Western partners” that rely mainly on the opposition. So what to do the same ?! "End justifies the means"?! V.V. Putin works for the long term in international relations, he is a strategist, not a tactician!
                1. Finntroll
                  Finntroll 27 November 2015 17: 02 New
                  +4
                  Those who choose shame between war and shame will end up with both. Nobody longs for a third world war. She already goes and goes a long time. It’s just that shots are still being fired in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and one of the theater of war is already close to the Russian borders (I'm talking about Ukraine). Turkey must be kicked like a naughty dog, kicked so that Ankara howls long and loudly (it’s not necessary to bomb, as many have noticed, you can arm the Kurds, help them arrange a couple of sabotage at Turkish military facilities, infrastructure facilities, etc. that is, to do what Turkey was engaged in the 90s in our Caucasus), what drool and snot about the fact that supporting separatist movements is not our method? Are we in the sandbox or where? "the enemy of my enemy is always friend, as long as the common enemy lives," what kind of slobber about working with the "legitimate" authorities? "legitimate" US proteges turned everyone and everything, it's like talking to the deaf! There is one principle: "live with wolves howling with wolves", you must pay the aggressor with his own coin! otherwise the downed Su-24 will be the beginning.
            2. Stepan stepanovich
              Stepan stepanovich 27 November 2015 13: 57 New
              -3
              Do you want a missile strike in Turkey? But they want this in the USA too! This provocation was launched for this! Putin understands this, but you do not.


              yes



              We are waiting for the 2nd series about Turkey!
              "How are we all nae..li!"
              1. Scraptor
                Scraptor 27 November 2015 14: 10 New
                0
                Well, then Crimea was considered Ukraine, troops were sent there, and so what? Now not Ukraine ...
            3. Scraptor
              Scraptor 27 November 2015 14: 01 New
              0
              But doesn’t the USA want to get its bases in Alaska?

              If the Turks continue to officially conduct themselves in this way, then they will definitely get to their bases, even without re-shooting.
              If they do not continue, then perhaps everything will work out only by knocking down their F-16s (from 2 pcs or more).
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 27 November 2015 15: 17 New
                +1
                Quote: Scraptor
                But doesn’t the USA want to get its bases in Alaska?

                Do you crave the Third World?
                Quote: Scraptor
                If the Turks continue to officially conduct themselves in this way, then they will definitely get to their bases, even without re-shooting.

                What will they get? So far there is nothing ... Iskanders need to be pulled up. It is possible even with a small YBCh.
                1. Scraptor
                  Scraptor 27 November 2015 15: 47 New
                  0
                  Well, let them start later if they want ...
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Perhaps even with small BJ.

                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Do you crave the Third World?

                  bully
            4. Karlovar
              Karlovar 27 November 2015 15: 12 New
              +2
              Plus for you ... The author of the article, Pyotr Akopov, in the original Hakobyan, although Armenian is, by history, a fierce enemy of the Turks, but he painted everything soberly and correctly .... To the author and article plus ... And our liberals are trying to dissolve Putin through " public "opinions on sharp as non-military retaliatory actions ... A year and a half ago, these same comrades tried to force Putin to send troops to Ukraine ... They didn’t succeed, but this time too ... I think in the end finally Erdogan, gritting his teeth, will apologize (otherwise his businessmen will tear him up) and the incident will be hushed up ... what will be right ...
              1. dude_not_in_theme
                dude_not_in_theme 27 November 2015 16: 18 New
                -1
                Erdogan will apologize, the incident will be hushed up and will it be right ??? Are you out of your mind, Czech ??
          2. kolyhalovs
            kolyhalovs 27 November 2015 11: 51 New
            26
            If the S-400 in Syria crashes a Turkish plane, we will answer!

            And since there will be no Turkish aircraft in Syria anymore, Erdogan turned out to be formidable and no one will take down the plane and no one will answer. So what did Erdogan achieve by shooting down a plane? He has ensured that we now have all of Syria at gunpoint. He didn’t go there. His country is suffering losses (albeit not fatal). The Turkmen for whom he allegedly harnessed, they simply urinate, and he looks at it. Free oil both burned and burned. And what did he win? Who did he do worse?

            Do you think he wants to start a war with Russia? Nothing of the kind. What for!!!? So that later his country would be torn into pieces by the powers that be, as is now happening with Syria? There are no bad people to become front-line in the global war.
            1. nekot
              nekot 27 November 2015 11: 59 New
              +5
              Our aircraft near the Turkish border will also not be. According to the same media reports ("sources on condition of anonymity said that this decision (to suspend flights) was made jointly with Russia, which supposedly also suspended flights near the Turkish border") is a mutual cessation of flights on the "dangerous" section. So the Turks achieved what they wanted. Let's see what happens next, in theory it will depend on how much Erdogan is overcharged.
              1. TVM - 75
                TVM - 75 27 November 2015 12: 59 New
                +3
                To clear a section of the Syrian-Turkish border, transfer it to the Syrian army and then declare it a no-fly zone. Whoever breaks the S-300.
              2. Taranchello
                Taranchello 27 November 2015 13: 59 New
                0
                Those. you want to say that the Turks wanted to achieve a ban on flights to Syria ??? Our kind of people didn’t fly to Turkey anyway, at least on purpose ...
                Clearly, the skin of dressing is not worth it ...
                The Turks will lose VERY much, and have not gained anything (Erdogan may have personally acquired it from an exclusive Negro), ours will also fly to the Turkish border, but only now accompanied by fighters !!!
              3. 11 black
                11 black 27 November 2015 16: 25 New
                0
                Quote: nekot
                Our aircraft near the Turkish border will also not be. According to the same media reports ("sources on condition of anonymity said that this decision (to suspend flights) was made jointly with Russia, which supposedly also suspended flights near the Turkish border") is a mutual cessation of flights on the "dangerous" section. So the Turks achieved what they wanted. Let's see what happens next, in theory it will depend on how much Erdogan is overcharged.

                Already refuted - were and will be!
              4. 11 black
                11 black 27 November 2015 16: 25 New
                0
                Quote: nekot
                Our aircraft near the Turkish border will also not be. According to the same media reports ("sources on condition of anonymity said that this decision (to suspend flights) was made jointly with Russia, which supposedly also suspended flights near the Turkish border") is a mutual cessation of flights on the "dangerous" section. So the Turks achieved what they wanted. Let's see what happens next, in theory it will depend on how much Erdogan is overcharged.

                Already refuted - were and will be!
            2. shtanko.49
              shtanko.49 27 November 2015 13: 59 New
              0
              You need to be friends with the Kurds, in general, you need to move faster.
            3. avva2012
              avva2012 27 November 2015 14: 35 New
              0
              Europeans both wanted and used Turkey, grabbing pieces of territory from them. Their rulers have learned nothing.
          3. 3axap82
            3axap82 27 November 2015 11: 53 New
            -9
            Erdogan (removed by site censorship), but certainly not a coward. Honestly, the situation showed that who has more courage, some who did not even call Turkey Turkey at a press conference.
            1. murking
              murking 27 November 2015 12: 35 New
              +2
              The courage to economically lower your country to please the Americans? We do not need such courage.
              1. 3axap82
                3axap82 27 November 2015 12: 54 New
                -2
                So far we have humiliated us. Have something to answer?
                You did not think that we also have nuclear weapons. But the Turks knew whose plane they were shooting down and declared that they were right, i.e. they weren’t afraid of him.
                For a downed Turkish plane, we were not subjected to rocket fire.
                Wars begin because of very good reasons, and not because of high-profile occasions.
                1. murking
                  murking 27 November 2015 13: 11 New
                  +5
                  I don’t know what they promised him and how Obama divorced him at the g20 summit, where they discussed this topic, but Turkey is losing a lot and gaining nothing. (The fact that they defended the Turkamans there can only be crazy if you believe it, especially since the elections were held, how PR is unnecessary) Syria will still be divided into 2 parts, Americans with NATO, they will not give their part to us, in any case. Well, we will release the so-called useful Syria, namely the coast. We will sell their plane, which will become easier for you, economic a blow where they lose their position as a gas hub, nuclear power plant and much more, costs hundreds of planes. Do you want a complete break, with Turkey, forever or is it profitable for us to crush them economically so that when the new government comes, they crawl to us with an apology .Now they are trying to isolate us, from all the cracks, it’s wiser to be, if Turkey still gets into it, they’ll break it, there’s no doubt about it, but only in Syria, we can’t attack its territory, since there is the largest base of NATO nuclear weapons.
                  1. 3axap82
                    3axap82 27 November 2015 13: 22 New
                    -4
                    Everything is very simple. As you put it, if Turkey climbs and smashes it, THEN THE CONSEQUENCES WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME, as in the case of "revenge for the sake of honor."
                    Erdogan will consider aggression if the Russian S-400 crashes a Turkish plane over Syria.
                    I think if we don’t beat us down, they will "help" us again - they will bring down our plane like "Turkish air intruder" again and declare it an aggression.
                    http://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/2477667
                    If a country, choosing between war and shame, chooses shame, it receives both war and shame. Winston Churchill
                    1. dude_not_in_theme
                      dude_not_in_theme 27 November 2015 16: 31 New
                      -1
                      With Zakhar, I agree completely. We were kicked into the anus, and we just grimaced a little and mooed something about sanctions, an economic response, and other guano for sad patriots. What sanctions will we introduce to the Turks ??? Do not make me laugh God. As always, the population of Russia itself will suffer the most from these sanctions. Unfortunately, the greatness of Russia occurs only in words in the studios of all Solovievs and Tolstoys
                2. Travian
                  Travian 1 December 2015 12: 22 New
                  0
                  The West has a reason (for a thousand years now), and a big reason is not needed. a downed plane is enough to declare war.
            2. Alexei
              Alexei 27 November 2015 13: 47 New
              +3
              Quote: 3axap82
              Erdogan (removed by site censorship), but certainly not a coward.

              What else (removed by censorship of the site), but do not confuse courage with arrogance. However, big politics is not a short showdown on the street, requiring lightning-fast actions and decisions, take this into account a little when setting out your conclusions.
              1. 3axap82
                3axap82 27 November 2015 15: 03 New
                -2
                What is Erdogan? He is the hero of Turkey now and the hero of Ukraine, probably, of Georgia and the Baltic states, Poland.
                And about the tricky moves and the big politics of Russia. Over the past 8 years, we have been surrounded in the West and South by some enemies who used to be part of our country, speak the same language with us, have the same education and upbringing. Ally only Belarus.
                A good result of big politics? We can’t give a quick tooth job or plan for years.
                Any constructive objections? Questions?
            3. Johnny51
              Johnny51 27 November 2015 15: 23 New
              +2
              And you do not confuse courage with frostbite! Erdogan showed himself to be a complete scumbag and his political rating collapsed. He simply confused politics and show business ... Erdogan reminds me of Dzhigurd: a lot of show-offs, a lot of shocking and do not care that serious people look with condemnation (or - with disgust) ... In general - a classic leader of the Stone Age tribe.
              1. 3axap82
                3axap82 27 November 2015 15: 43 New
                -1
                The difference between courage and "frostbite" is only a negative or positive assessment of this phenomenon. It is like a scout and a spy. If ours is a scout.
                Where did his political rating collapse? He is the hero of all the enemies of Russia which she has a lot of. And a precedent since the Great Patriotic War. When our military aircraft were still openly shot down not invading the territory of the shot down, not in the war, officially declaring that they were not Syrian, Egyptian or Vietnamese, but Russian? Yes, and did not receive an answer.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 27 November 2015 19: 42 New
                  +2
                  to the question of our downed planes (quickly found one case, but there were more)

                  October 08 1950 in 16.17 local time two US Air Force fighters Lockheed F-80C “Shooting Star” (“Meteor”) violated the state border of the USSR and, going deeper by almost 100 km, attacked the Sukhaja ​​Rechka military airfield in 165 km from Vladivostok, in the Khasansky district. As a result of shelling, seven aircraft of the Soviet squadron were damaged by US Air Force aircraft in the parking lot, one of which was completely burned out.
                  Not so long ago, one of the owners of Coca-Cola Bottling Co. (a former participant in the fighting in Korea) in Washington, DC, asked a Russian journalist: “What do you know about the incident that occurred in 1950 at the Sukhaya Rechka airfield? In your opinion, was it a provocation or a mistake? "Replied:" This incident has become a disgrace for the United States. The very idea that the two pilots did not know where they were, did not know the location of the Soviet border and were not able to understand what they were attacking at the airfield seemed incredible.
                  The United States said the strike was hit due to a navigation error and an incorrect assessment of the situation. The Air Force commander was withdrawn, and the pilots punished. States offered to pay the damage. USSR decided not to inflate scandal ". And another former participant in the fighting in Korea added: “The incident on the Dry River is hushed up until now, and most likely you will not be able to find a person in the USA who has heard of him ...”

                  If then the USSR would plummet in response, we might be there wouldn’t be now ..
                  I.V. Stalin was not a pacifist, he was responsible for the people and knew what war was ..
                  Think with your head fool Are you ready for a war with NATO? Yes, it is unlikely - but there are 1-2% ...
                  “War is not poker for you! It cannot be announced when it pleases! ”© The same Munchausen
                  1. 3axap82
                    3axap82 28 November 2015 09: 36 New
                    0
                    "The United States said that the strike was caused due to a navigation error and an incorrect assessment of the situation. The Air Force commander was withdrawn and the pilots punished. The States offered to pay the damage. The USSR decided not to inflate the scandal." And another former participant in the fighting in Korea added: “The incident on the Sukhaya River is still hushed up, and most likely you will not be able to find a person in the USA who would hear about him ...”
                    They then apologize, plus the Soviet aircraft destroyed the American in Korea at that moment. No shame.
                    My grandfather’s brother fought in Korea and shot down Americans, and there was even a case when both planes crashed. Amer shouted, "Ivan, I’m going there, and you are breaking up here," so they did.
          4. Oleg14774
            Oleg14774 27 November 2015 12: 04 New
            -4
            Quote: Stas157
            Instead, Putin begs for some kind of apology and compensation

            If he thought so, he would pick up the phone when Erdogan called.
          5. maxxdesign
            maxxdesign 27 November 2015 12: 08 New
            0
            then why has the Syrian army still not taken this place

            maybe this is now strategically disadvantageous! as soon as the front line began to level out .. and then squeeze out such an appendix so that the Ishilovites surround and take it into the boiler?
          6. Fin
            Fin 27 November 2015 12: 18 New
            +4
            Quote: Stas157
            Why are you shy? Turks are arming terrorists and nothing!

            Take your time, everything has its time. Suddenly, such issues are not resolved. He still has a roof.
            1. Woker
              Woker 27 November 2015 12: 25 New
              +2
              It has been said repeatedly: "Revenge is a dish that needs to be served cold."
          7. cyberspace
            cyberspace 27 November 2015 14: 24 New
            +2
            Quote: Stas157
            While there was no military response from Russia! Instead, Putin begs for some kind of apology and compensation,

            Putin does not need to beg for anything, he, like that bull from a joke, slowly descends from the mountain and plows the whole herd. With the plane, he created a situation in which the Turks look bad on either side, any performance by Erdogan and Davutoglu only worsens their position within the country and their attitude to Turkey in the world. Almost everything is turned away from them, starting with NATO allies. Of all the countries bordering Turkey, it has no disputes only with Azerbaijan, and that is only because it has some kind of accession in any form.
          8. Mercenary
            Mercenary 27 November 2015 14: 42 New
            +1
            Do not write! (joke) we will wait when our tourists parted. We don’t need thousands of hostages?
        2. Altona
          Altona 27 November 2015 11: 27 New
          +5
          Quote: Baikonur
          - having shot at our plane, he shot at the temple of Turkey!

          ----------------------
          The author of the article is somehow too optimistic about Erdogan. Because Recep Taipovich imagines himself, if not the grandmaster of geopolitics, then certainly the queen on the board, he just hit the wrong pawn (Russian fighter) and it’s not possible to retreat ...
          1. Nyrobsky
            Nyrobsky 27 November 2015 12: 29 New
            0
            Quote: Altona
            The author of the article is somehow too optimistic about Erdogan. Because Recep Taipovich imagines himself, if not the grandmaster of geopolitics, then certainly the queen on the board, he just hit the wrong pawn (Russian fighter) and it’s not possible to retreat ...

            The fact that the work of the Turkish F-16s on the implementation of Erdogan’s “provocation” was coordinated by two Avax mattresses suggests that this “mistake” was imposed by “partners” from the USA.
            Here, American ears are not so noticeable, they generally stick out like two bast shoes, for show.
            And Erdogan will have to answer - do not go to the grandmother ...
        3. sovetskyturist
          sovetskyturist 27 November 2015 11: 34 New
          +5
          The Russian-Turkish conflict forced the Greeks to recall the prophecies of the elder Paisius Svyatogorets http://mixednews.ru/archives/91931
          Specifically, Paisius’s prediction was as follows: “Some events will occur that will end in the fact that we will again regain Constantinople. There will be a war between Turkey and Russia. In the beginning, the Turks will think that they are winning, but this will lead to their defeat. The Russians will ultimately win and capture Constantinople. After that, he will become ours. They will have to give the city to us. ”

          The text goes on to say: “The Turks will be defeated. They will be scattered, because this nation was created without the blessing of the Lord. The third part of the Turks will return back to where they came from, deep into Turkey. Another third will be saved, because they will accept the Christian faith, and the rest will be killed in this war. " This is based on the prophecy of St. Cosmas of Aetolia.

          Elder Paisius rested on July 12, 1994. Among his notes were found the words: “I only dreamed that the Lord would save my life for several more years. Then I would see my country expanding its possessions. And this will happen ... "

          “Turkey will be fragmented. It will benefit our country. Thus, our villages will finally gain freedom, our enslaved homeland. Constantinople will be liberated, it will again become a Greek city. Hagia Sophia will be open again, ”the text reads.

          “Turkey will be divided into three or four parts. The countdown has already begun. We will regain the lands that belong to us, the Armenians will receive their lands back, and the Kurds - theirs. A lot of people will rejoice. And all this will happen in these years. The time has come ”.http: //mixednews.ru/archives/91931
          The mess is not in closets, but in the minds - the reason for all the troubles, probably the Russians are again being pushed to drag chestnuts for others. , and Muslims will be shown in Russian as enemies.
          1. kil 31
            kil 31 27 November 2015 12: 03 New
            +7
            They will have to give the city to us What is it like? We shed blood, and give the territory to the Greeks? Let them at first stop being afraid of shooting down Turkish planes.
            1. 3axap82
              3axap82 27 November 2015 12: 10 New
              +6
              in 1996, a Greek fighter shot down a Turkish Air Force fighter, killing a Turkish pilot. There was an air battle by the way.
              Handsome!
              http://www.utro.ru/articles/2015/07/16/1249993.shtml
              http://fxstock.ru/230220-Mezhdu-VVS-Grecii-i-Turcii-edva-ne-proizoshel-vozdushny
              iy-boiy.html
              https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon#.D0.9F.D0.BE
              .D1.82.D0.B5.D1.80.D0.B8
          2. Oleg14774
            Oleg14774 27 November 2015 12: 13 New
            +1
            Quote: sovetskyturist
            There will be a war between Turkey and Russia. In the beginning, the Turks will think that they are winning, but this will lead to their defeat. The Russians will ultimately win and capture Constantinople. After that, he will become ours. They will have to give the city to us. ”

            What the hell is that! Our country is at war, and the land is to the Greeks. I respect the Greeks, but to fight in order to give the land to someone later! Not they are also cunning.
            1. kergudu straight
              kergudu straight 27 November 2015 13: 06 New
              0
              Actually, it meant it would become again the Greek faith, and not the territory of Greece
              1. 3axap82
                3axap82 27 November 2015 13: 50 New
                0
                Yes, as all of us Orthodox are called orthodox or schismatics.
            2. Travian
              Travian 1 December 2015 12: 31 New
              0
              Well, probably because Constantinople was Greek.
          3. grandfather68
            grandfather68 27 November 2015 12: 52 New
            0
            Dear, do not disgrace - learn the RUSSIAN language !!! Well, the right to read is impossible.
          4. grandfather68
            grandfather68 27 November 2015 12: 52 New
            0
            Dear, do not disgrace - learn the RUSSIAN language !!! Well, the right to read is impossible.
          5. Scraptor
            Scraptor 27 November 2015 13: 11 New
            0
            Yes they ... so what?
            http://rusnovosti.ru/posts/397436
            apparently they don’t understand that they will stray over their Turkey, and not only in Syria.
            and will be beaten at their airfields and KP

            he and psaka are the same geeks as Hitler, the Turks are almost entirely nationalists and they wanted to fight. There is nothing to be done about it, it can only be treated.

            If America participated in this, then it will definitely get its own!

            then they can start a big or nuclear war if they want ...

            The American Avax was already knocked down and more than once off the coast of Syria in 1983-84.

            In the Caucasus, the ranks of the militants were mainly Turks (with Turkish passports), and more than three divisions were killed there !!! This is as of a few years ago.

            They block the straits - for example, we block them both from the north and from the south, but in general, the violation of the international status of the straits will already be an act of war on their part ...
        4. 3axap82
          3axap82 27 November 2015 11: 49 New
          0
          Having shot at our plane, he shot at our plane, shot it down, publicly announced this and stated that he was right.
        5. Hardy
          Hardy 27 November 2015 11: 53 New
          +6
          Quote: Baikonur
          Erdogan committed worse than crime
          - having shot at our plane, he shot at the temple of Turkey!

          Let's not lie to ourselves then. In fact, NATO shot at us.
          Previously, they fought with us through intermediaries, but now they hit directly. Erdogan himself would never have taken such a step. Maybe I would like to, but did not go.
          Turkey and Erdogan, of course, are still ... uh ... bad people. But they do not solve anything. All our answers to Turkey are just ridiculous ... I understand that it is easier to be offended by Erdogan and all other Turks than by those who set them on us. But no matter how you hide from the problem behind your illusions, reality will not go anywhere.
          But the reality is this. NATO (the power block of transnational business) is already directly hammering us. And it will hammer further. I won’t be surprised if a rocket flies from the Baltic ...
          Moreover, the puppeteers do not care even if we destroy all the Turks. It’s even more profitable for them.
          1. Belousov
            Belousov 27 November 2015 12: 15 New
            10
            Erdogan has already backed off. The vaunted Nato thrust the advertised 5th article into one dark, deep place, thereby showing that they did not burn with desire to arrange a real batch with an angry Russia, especially if the reason for the batch was only Turks. Incidentally, this should be taken into account by other particularly noisy countries, which all reiterate, "Nato come, protect us." As it turned out, Nato comes only when it is profitable for him and there is no danger to grab the lyuley and spoil his own beautiful glamorous face.
            The Kurds must be unequivocally armed. Yes, we control the territory of Syria, however, the Kurds will be able to provide Erdogan with a sweet life on the territory of Turkey itself. Erdogan wanted to build a buffer zone in northern Syria supposedly to help refugees? Well, let's bring this good purpose to life. That's just the buffer it will be for the PKK. First, clean everything there, we are from the air, on the ground, the Kurds themselves, clean. Then block the border (which means depriving ISIS of money, ammunition, medicine and other pleasures of life) and launch the Kurds there for the settlement. The Turks, of course, will be indignant, but they will not be able to fly anyway, because the slightest flight beyond the territory will be severely suppressed.
            The bottom line:
            1) Isil will remain with a pretty battered wallet, without regular replenishment of weapons and militants,
            2) Erdogan will simply be left without money, but it will gain even greater problems with the Kurds than now,
            3) Kurds keep the northern regions of Syria "clean", which will allow concentrating attacks in other directions,
            4) we will take revenge as a whole and show that you can’t get in touch with Russia, the answer will be extremely unpleasant.
            1. Hardy
              Hardy 27 November 2015 12: 41 New
              +1
              Quote: Belousov
              Erdogan has already backed off. The vaunted Nato thrust the advertised 5th article into one dark, deep place, thereby showing that they did not burn with desire to arrange a real batch with an angry Russia, especially if the reason for the batch was only Turks.

              Well, how can you be so naive))) The owners of NATO do not need a military victory over us. They need a war. And for the sake of war they are to us and Ossetia, and Abkhazia, and Crimea (They allowed to occupy Crimea, but banks, mobile, didn’t let the business go, and whose then tell me the Crimea? Our?))))) ) ... yes, whatever you want to feed. Stalin was even allowed to occupy half of Europe ...
              The more states destroy each other physically and financially, the better the dollar will feel.
              Our common enemy, for all states, is a global financial system that is not controlled by society.
              Yes, the Fed, if desired, will give Erdogan as much dough as he wants))) Like Hitler, money was filled up with money in due time. You can certainly kill the oil caravans of the IG, so they will directly throw off the loot))))

              Well, you are all like children)))
              Putin especially pinned when he said: “Do they want to put NATO at the service of ISIS?” “But does Turkey, IS and NATO have more than one boss?)))) Our guarantor did not know this?)))))))) ) And who doesn’t manage our financial system, Putin, too?))))
              Come on, inflate each other to the delight of the moneybags))))
          2. Belousov
            Belousov 27 November 2015 12: 15 New
            0
            Erdogan has already backed off. The vaunted Nato thrust the advertised 5th article into one dark, deep place, thereby showing that they did not burn with desire to arrange a real batch with an angry Russia, especially if the reason for the batch was only Turks. Incidentally, this should be taken into account by other particularly noisy countries, which all reiterate, "Nato come, protect us." As it turned out, Nato comes only when it is profitable for him and there is no danger to grab the lyuley and spoil his own beautiful glamorous face.
            The Kurds must be unequivocally armed. Yes, we control the territory of Syria, however, the Kurds will be able to provide Erdogan with a sweet life on the territory of Turkey itself. Erdogan wanted to build a buffer zone in northern Syria supposedly to help refugees? Well, let's bring this good purpose to life. That's just the buffer it will be for the PKK. First, clean everything there, we are from the air, on the ground, the Kurds themselves, clean. Then block the border (which means depriving ISIS of money, ammunition, medicine and other pleasures of life) and launch the Kurds there for the settlement. The Turks, of course, will be indignant, but they will not be able to fly anyway, because the slightest flight beyond the territory will be severely suppressed.
            The bottom line:
            1) Isil will remain with a pretty battered wallet, without regular replenishment of weapons and militants,
            2) Erdogan will simply be left without money, but it will gain even greater problems with the Kurds than now,
            3) Kurds keep the northern regions of Syria "clean", which will allow concentrating attacks in other directions,
            4) we will take revenge as a whole and show that you can’t get in touch with Russia, the answer will be extremely unpleasant.
          3. marna
            marna 27 November 2015 13: 50 New
            +1
            Quote: Hardy
            In fact, NATO shot at us.

            They shot at NATO, and at us. And shot a member of NATO. In order to wreak havoc already in Europe. Judge for yourselves, is war with us really beneficial for Europe, and right now, when they have their own problems to the neck. And now they will abandon everything and begin to fight with a nuclear power. Yes, while they will be gathering an army, Russia will cover half of Europe with its S-400 in a day or two. What’s next? .. Look at how NATO behaves, it seems that everyone supported the Turk together, and then each spoke for himself that this is a personal matter of the Russian Federation and Turkey, let them shake it together. In Russian speaking - they threw Erdogan, disentangle himself. Someone who was even able to “get through to the Kremlin,” personally expresses his condolences. We need to look deeper who is the beneficiary here. In my opinion, not Europe at all.
            They chose a strong enough, ambitious, eccentric leader and set up in full. From here and throwing all yesterday: they knew - did not know whose plane; did not get through to the Kremlin (at least someone in the world can believe this?); We will not apologize, but we do not want to spoil the relationship; in the end, generally a pearl, F-16 itself fired, of its own free will, and professional cameras accidentally ended up in the bushes ... He then (Erdogan), thought he was now a hero, swung at this, and the customer sent him ... to himself to disentangle everything.
            I understand that this sounds corny, but all traces lead overseas ... IMHO
        6. Scandinavian
          Scandinavian 27 November 2015 12: 13 New
          0
          Erdogan: If the Russians bring down our plane over Syria, we will declare war


          Turkish President Recep Erdogan said he would consider an act of aggression against Turkish sovereignty a situation if a Turkish military plane that violated Syrian airspace was shot down using a Russian anti-aircraft complex. He stated this in an interview with CNN.

          “Of course, this will be an act of aggression against our sovereignty. We, like any other state, will defend it with military force, ”the Turkish President said.

          Erdogan also noted that he considers such a development of events quite probable. He specified that in such a situation Turkey would take “urgent measures”, but did not specify which ones.

          Relations between Russia and Turkey sharply escalated after the Russian Su-24 bomber was shot down on the Syrian-Turkish border on November 24. The pilot was killed on the ground after the bailout, and the navigator was later rescued by Russian special forces.

          Erdogan, commenting on the incident, said that Turkey did not know about the belonging of the aircraft to the Russian Air Force and that otherwise the reaction could have been different. Russian President Vladimir Putin later called Erdogan’s statement “nonsense” and “excuse”.
        7. PQ-18
          PQ-18 27 November 2015 12: 56 New
          0
          - having shot at our plane, he shot at the temple of Turkey!

          Is Turkey Already Dead?
          it can be compared to a shot in your own pocket
          1. Scraptor
            Scraptor 27 November 2015 13: 59 New
            0
            It depends on whether he is on the chest or where (there are many options).
      2. Vend
        Vend 27 November 2015 11: 16 New
        +3
        Quote: vorobey
        27.11.2015, 10: 28


        Turkish military aviation suspended flights over Syrian territory as part of an international coalition operation against the “Islamic State” after the incident with the downed Russian Su-24 bomber. This was reported by local media with reference to diplomatic sources.

        Original news RT in Russian:
        https://russian.rt.com/article/133064

        We can cope without them. It will be a shame when the victory is in one step, the Turks will rush to fight. And they will hysterically declare their great merits, and the rest of the West will do the same. Damn already coming. It is enough to listen to the statements of Bardak Obama.
      3. aleks 62 next
        aleks 62 next 27 November 2015 11: 19 New
        10
        ..... Turkish military aviation suspended flights over Syrian territory ...

        ... This news is already 2 days .... The Turks are already singing differently .... In general, an article with a sweetheart .... Somehow it raises the question of money (loss) .... There is such an impression .... request
        1. Grbear
          Grbear 27 November 2015 11: 40 New
          +9
          aleks 62 next

          .... The Turks are already singing differently .... In general, an article with a sweetheart .... Somehow it raises the question of money (loss) .... There is such an impression .... request

          I agree. With a sweetheart ... The author "merges" Erdogan, but asks for mercy political elite, disguising it as the Turkish people and economic feasibility. There is a complete misunderstanding of exactly the Russian attitude towards such manifestations. Russian can forgive a lot, but not treason. Turkey will have to “launder” for a long time. hi
      4. Lepila
        Lepila 27 November 2015 12: 41 New
        +5
        Only smoke from shot down Turkish aircraft can serve Russia as compensation for the humiliation inflicted. And of course, the no-fly zone for the Turks over the northern part of Syria (including Kurdistan)
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Atrix
      Atrix 27 November 2015 11: 17 New
      14
      Lord does not seem to you that our World is rushing at full speed to World War III.
      1. lelikas
        lelikas 27 November 2015 11: 22 New
        +7
        Quote: Atrix
        Lord does not seem to you that our World is rushing at full speed to World War III.

        He always rushes somewhere. But edorgan is already beckoning -
        He said that he would consider aggression a situation in which a Turkish military plane that violates Syrian airspace would be shot down with the help of the Russian S-400 anti-aircraft complex.
        1. Mr.
          Mr. Fun 27 November 2015 11: 52 New
          0
          He would walk in the forest ... That is, he himself says: we will fly and break! Unbeknownst to the Syrian authorities, we will fly and violate!
          What did they do with our Su-24 allegedly violating their border ?! Right, shot down, without trial. Well, it will be so with your jackal, which will fly where they are not asked.
          Comrade Erdogan was circumcised in full, and now he is trying to get out, and for one more, and, supposedly, to threaten. Only all this contradicts his own logic, which they were guided by, shooting down our Su-24.
          1. Abakan
            Abakan 27 November 2015 12: 16 New
            +1
            On PARASHAENKO looks like something))
        2. Petrof
          Petrof 27 November 2015 12: 10 New
          0
          Quote: lelikas
          But edorgan is already beckoning -


          I think it’s called differently, for example, it’s
        3. DenZ
          DenZ 27 November 2015 12: 14 New
          +2
          considers aggression a situation in which a Turkish military plane that violates Syrian airspace will be shot down with the help of the Russian S-400 anti-aircraft complex.
          And if the plane is shot down with the help of the Fort and from the cruiser Moscow or the air-to-air missile, then this, apparently, is no longer aggression. Well, this idle talk Erdogan. Stsit is evident even from his statements.
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. demo
          demo 27 November 2015 12: 24 New
          0
          Erdogan is in an inadequate state of mind.
          To make such a decision (to deliberately shoot down our plane) was something on the map that the damage, both political and economic, and everything else, could not be compared to losses.
          All the same, oil, money from its sale and everything related to the war is simply a business for Erdogan.
          And very cool.
          It remains to find those who bought from him.
          Not all for cash.
          Bank transactions were also?
          And serious buyers are alive and well. Sit in Europe.
          Those. you can bring a guy to "clean water".
          And then the career will be minimized.
          And the prison.
          And there he will not sit for long.
      2. syndicalist
        syndicalist 27 November 2015 12: 59 New
        0
        Quote: Atrix
        Lord does not seem to you that our World is rushing at full speed to World War III.

        The war has long begun. The only question is whether it will use nuclear weapons.
      3. The comment was deleted.
    4. a52333
      a52333 27 November 2015 11: 18 New
      +6
      Bagdasarov is an Armenian, for him Turks, like a red rag to a bull. One of the best guests on Vesti FM.
      1. ssergn
        ssergn 27 November 2015 11: 37 New
        +3
        Bagdasarov, primarily a Russian.
        1. jjj
          jjj 27 November 2015 12: 14 New
          +4
          And for some reason it seems to me more and more that at the helm of the F-16 there could have been non-Turks
          1. Mikhail Krapivin
            Mikhail Krapivin 27 November 2015 13: 09 New
            0
            Quote: jjj
            And for some reason it seems to me more and more that at the helm of the F-16 there could have been non-Turks



            And not for you alone. Egerlic is very close. And the Americans arrived there quite by accident a week before the events. And quite by accident on the F-16 with the very same missiles. But this is of course just a coincidence.
        2. Oleg14774
          Oleg14774 27 November 2015 12: 16 New
          0
          Quote: ssergn
          Bagdasarov, primarily a Russian.

          But not simple, but of Armenian origin! Consider this, I think it's worth it.
          1. Gur
            Gur 27 November 2015 14: 22 New
            0
            He said something not objective about the Turks and about the Armenian oligarchs with the brain of a guest worker
    5. nik1321
      nik1321 27 November 2015 12: 56 New
      0
      well done gal !!!
    6. Sharikov
      27 November 2015 19: 18 New
      0
      Bagdasarov well done. Unfortunately, "specialists" are not appreciated in our country. We are in favor of "effective managers." By the way, this is Baghdasarov speaking in the Duma, and now he is not even a deputy
  2. avvg
    avvg 27 November 2015 11: 10 New
    +4
    For Erdogan’s mistakes, undoubtedly Turkey will face considerable upheavals.
  3. Tor5
    Tor5 27 November 2015 11: 13 New
    +5
    For each Erdogan there is an item with a screw, I really hope that it will be used.
    1. rf xnumx
      rf xnumx 27 November 2015 11: 18 New
      10
      Quote: Tor5
      For each Erdogan there is an item with a screw, I really hope that it will be used.
  4. Same lech
    Same lech 27 November 2015 11: 13 New
    10
    But with all the necessity and inevitability of bringing Erdogan to life, one must not forget who benefits from the escalation of the Russian-Turkish conflict and its transfer to the stage of long-term confrontation.


    I agree.
    When emotions calmed down, you can now calmly analyze in detail all the details of this provocation.
    I am inclined to the version of PROKHANOV ... he quite intelligibly explained that the successes of RUSSIA in the Middle East will try to nullify with the help of provocation.
    Since the F-16, which is in service with TURKEY, manufactured by the United States, the US State Department set the conditions for those who use it to give prior notice and obtain permission to use it in dubious cases ... ERDOGAN received approval from the United States for provocation and this explains his impudence.

    The United States does not want to disclose all the details of this case to Lavrov, although he asked this direct question to Washington officials.

    In general, all indirect evidence leads to the US State Department.
    1. gjv
      gjv 27 November 2015 11: 29 New
      +3
      But with all the necessity and inevitability of bringing Erdogan to life, you need ...

      The need to bring Erdogan, Davitoglu and all their gang of blat to a state of ashes is the necessary feeling!
    2. mihasik
      mihasik 27 November 2015 12: 11 New
      +6
      Quote: The same Lech
      I am inclined to the version of PROKHANOV ... he quite intelligibly explained that the successes of RUSSIA in the Middle East will try to nullify with the help of provocation.

      Nevertheless, Putin, trusting Erdogan, sent undefended aircraft to the war (he said this yesterday). Well, at least the willpower was enough to admit it.
      Sorry, what happened? Such unconditional trust in the NATO bloc? This is excuse me, the specific "SCAM" Shoigu as Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation and Putin as Commander-in-Chief.
      Where are the KS-418E KHIBIN electronic warfare systems that were supposed to be on the SU-24M? Saved on safety for the sake of more ammunition? The result of trust in "partners" is obvious and bitter.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 27 November 2015 13: 59 New
        0
        Most likely, these electronic warfare systems, in principle, like the rest, are very few in our army.
      2. Gur
        Gur 27 November 2015 14: 25 New
        +1
        I understand that electronic warfare from a thermal missile does not help, but I agree with the basic idea, or we were waiting for a provocation ....
  5. red_october
    red_october 27 November 2015 11: 14 New
    12
    On the one hand, Erdogan simplified our lives - after the representatives of the “moderate opposition” danced on our pilot’s body, ISIS everywhere has the same saturated color, without “moderate” shades.

    That is, paint for repainting shells in moderate, light tones is now no longer necessary.

    On the other hand, Germany sends its ship to the coast of Syria, the "coalition" works with its aircraft (is everything clear with the Turks, but with the rest?) - how to coordinate efforts with them and explain to our S-400 who is the ally and who is not?
    1. DIVAN SOLDIER
      DIVAN SOLDIER 27 November 2015 11: 17 New
      +6
      There are no allies! Beat it all! For the French for the Americans, especially for the Turks, as promised by our promise, for everyone who poses a danger to our VKS!
      1. AlexTires
        AlexTires 27 November 2015 11: 20 New
        +1
        may they hate us while they are afraid!
    2. dali
      dali 27 November 2015 12: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: red_october
      ... - how now to coordinate efforts with them and explain to our S-400 who is the ally and who is not?
      How does the S-400 hinder coordination of efforts? !!! belay
      Or do you think the S-400 decides on its own who to shoot down and who not? !!! belay

      shl
      S-400 in this case, on the contrary, will very much help coordinate efforts ... how ...? - At least three times guess!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. red_october
        red_october 27 November 2015 12: 47 New
        0
        the plane flies, the pilot does not answer and does not turn off, how can he understand Turkish or not? On the basis of the Air Force in Turkey, and the Americans are based.
        And if everything is clear with the Turks and they set themselves up in the eyes of the whole world, then we have to think with the Americans ... Now it’s also possible to wait for the provocations from the Americans, who are struggling to make us an aggressor by stepping out of the water. Our Su-24, they say, was driven by an American electronic warfare aircraft and the ground-based Patriot insured (they write, I don’t know if it’s true, but I won’t be surprised), it turns out that the Turks pushed them to attack our "drying". Schemes of substitutions, when the Turks can be pushed forward (who will respond in the event of an unsuccessful combination of circumstances, since they have nothing to lose), and they can beat them secretly, depending on the situation, a certain amount can be realized. It may be necessary for air defense crews to request directions from above. This is a policy, the military does not always need to take responsibility.
        If anyone knows how the calculation of air defense works in such cases - explain, it’s interesting.
        Of course, I hope that C-400 will keep the “coalition” together with the Turks in good shape and sane. But no one can guarantee
    3. Mikhail Krapivin
      Mikhail Krapivin 27 November 2015 13: 12 New
      0
      Quote: red_october
      How to explain to our S-400 who is the ally and who is not?


      Let in all who are not ours, the Lord will understand.
  6. solovey
    solovey 27 November 2015 11: 14 New
    +6
    An urgent need to resolve the issue of Kurdistan !!! And EVERYTHING will be good !!!
  7. AlexTires
    AlexTires 27 November 2015 11: 15 New
    +9
    Did the author himself understand what he wrote? The author indirectly offers Russia not to harm Turkey, to forgive it. In other words, to take a prostitutional position. Mistake more than crime? It’s the same as proving to a woman that soft is better than hard ...
  8. Name
    Name 27 November 2015 11: 15 New
    +5
    Lavrov refused to meet with the Turkish Foreign Minister, the GDP doesn’t answer the phone for the "Sultan" ... Although Turkey is one of the "whole" 65 countries of the "coalition" .... but they piled it in the pants .... bully NOT NUMBER, AND ABILITY! - Suvorov is not in their memory.
  9. Scoun
    Scoun 27 November 2015 11: 16 New
    +1
    But instead of trying to agree with Russia and Damascus on the future of the Turkic population of Syria, Erdogan decided to go all-in - show Putin his coolness.

    Erdogand ** back in 2008 wanted to show his “coolness” in Adjara, Erdogand ** chopped off part of Georgia from Saakashvulli (if anyone doesn’t know) and this erdogand ** with his idea of ​​Ottomanism ... completely blundered and they also flatter him the words of Shaitan Anglo-Saxon that he will be helped by a second front ..
    One gets the feeling that the Russian Federation is forced to declare an instant nuclear strike in the event of the start of hostilities of one of the NATO countries against the military of Russia in Syria.
    The Anglo-Saxons just won’t play this Middle East “card” ... they plan to sit for a while.
  10. jekasimf
    jekasimf 27 November 2015 11: 17 New
    +3
    Russia really needs Turkey, and Moscow will not get anywhere from it, especially in a conflict with the West .......
    The author is clearly trying to suggest to us that we need to wipe ourselves off and smile at the Turks and on. Believe me, Asians have always been jackals, and respect only strength. And as soon as you turn your back on them, give a slack, they will immediately decide that you are weak and attack like a pack of jackals It is Turkey that has now decided.
  11. cap
    cap 27 November 2015 11: 17 New
    +1
    Quote: vorobey
    27.11.2015, 10: 28


    Turkish military aviation suspended flights over Syrian territory as part of an international coalition operation against the “Islamic State” after the incident with the downed Russian Su-24 bomber. This was reported by local media with reference to diplomatic sources.

    Original news RT in Russian:
    https://russian.rt.com/article/133064

    Sit down. So sit. In the "F". hi
  12. Gunther
    Gunther 27 November 2015 11: 18 New
    +3
    The lying rat, guilty, in my opinion, of the death of our veins, stated the following:
    Forbes: Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said he would consider aggression a situation in which a Turkish military plane that violates Syrian airspace would be shot down with the help of the Russian S-400 anti-aircraft system. He said this in an interview with CNN. Answering the question of the presenter about the possible reaction of Ankara in a hypothetical incident, the president replied that he considered such a development of events quite probable and Turkey would "forced to take immediate action".
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 27 November 2015 11: 23 New
      +1
      Quote: Gunter
      The lying rat, guilty of the death of our veins, stated the following:

      The largest rat in the world ...
    2. sinukvl
      sinukvl 27 November 2015 11: 23 New
      0
      And then he gives orders to his Air Force not to fly.
      27.11.2015, 10: 28


      Turkish military aviation suspended flights over Syrian territory as part of an international coalition operation against the “Islamic State” after the incident with the downed Russian Su-24 bomber. This was reported by local media with reference to diplomatic sources.

      Original news RT in Russian:
      https://russian.rt.com/article/133064
      . He is not a lying rat, he is a lying and cowardly jackal!
      1. epsilon571
        epsilon571 27 November 2015 12: 37 New
        0
        sinukvl (2) SU Today, 11:23 ↑
        And then he gives orders to his Air Force not to fly.


        Yesterday they tried, but the wind blew. Now the Americans decided to substitute their cutthroats, they detect anti-aircraft installations along the border with Turkey, and in the event of an attack on Russia they will begin to put pressure. S-400 undoubtedly tempered the ardor, but in this situation this is not enough, if necessary, it is necessary, without fear of anyone, to show the whole world in action. But whether this will be a big question.
  13. Vadim237
    Vadim237 27 November 2015 11: 19 New
    +2
    Mistake - no, just another one appeared, like Parashenko, with delusions of grandeur that everything was allowed to him and he decided to demonstrate it, only the demonstration turned into a good pig lodged by himself.
  14. fa2998
    fa2998 27 November 2015 11: 20 New
    +3
    Somewhere on TV I heard the phrase- “revenge should be cold”. Several days passed and the reaction of Russia was unintelligible. The “recommendations” to travel agencies, finding worms in Turkish apples are somehow weak for Russia. If you decide to punish economically, punish dollar, then a complete rejection (embargo) of everything Turkish, and a complete ban on exports to Turkey. Or someone in Gazprom has a closer pocket! hi
    1. DobryAAH
      DobryAAH 27 November 2015 11: 23 New
      +3
      Calm down, the time will come we will not leave stone unturned in Turkey. Until everything ripens. There will also be less provocations against us.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. sa-zz
      sa-zz 27 November 2015 11: 28 New
      +1
      Unambiguously, revenge should be cold, definitely in Gazprom someone has a closer pocket.
      Most likely food supplies from other countries are calculated (food security). Today, the deadline given by the Talking Head (Medvedev) to the bureaucrats for the development of measures. We will watch.
    4. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 November 2015 11: 55 New
      +1
      The end of Turkish molasses - Gazprom now has other more "tidbit" directions - this is Nord Stream 2 and a contract for a gas pipeline to India.
  15. sa-zz
    sa-zz 27 November 2015 11: 21 New
    +5
    ErDogan said that if there is evidence that Turkey, in his person, is cooperating with terrorists, he will resign himself. I hope there is evidence. And this is his only option!
    His departure will not ruin the relationship completely (all the same, a lot of effort has been made). But to punish so that "smoke" should be.
    Eternal memory to the heroes who died on November 24!
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 November 2015 11: 37 New
      +3
      He already two journalists who convicted the Turkish authorities with ties to ISIS, demanded that he be sentenced to two life sentences and add another 41 years of imprisonment to them - to see evidence really appeared.
  16. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 27 November 2015 11: 23 New
    +5
    Erdogan should be taught a good lesson, but without offending Turkey and not pushing her people away from Russia.

    At the political and state level, Turkey was not only not insulted, but also spoke with it in a diplomatic language. GDP told the truth, which is based on facts, calling Turkey an accomplice of terrorists. Unlike Russia, the Turkish "leaders" in an ultimative and brutal form turned to our country. In recent weeks, direct threats have been heard against us. And Erdogan pushed Turkey away from the people of Russia, and this is beyond doubt.
  17. Darth Vader
    Darth Vader 27 November 2015 11: 27 New
    +8
    Erdogan had to think about the interests of his country, and not about personal selfish interests .... Now let them get what they deserve !!!
  18. Turkir
    Turkir 27 November 2015 11: 27 New
    +4
    You can’t offer too greasy gifts to the Turks - they perceive this as a weakness.
    Let them feel the loss of financial flows - they will immediately become more accommodating.
    1. Mikhail Krapivin
      Mikhail Krapivin 27 November 2015 13: 16 New
      0
      Quote: Turkir
      Let them feel the loss of financial flows - they will immediately become more accommodating.



      What are these rabid monkey babies talking about? About kalym for the killed pilot and marine? Or so that they no longer bring down our planes? About what?
  19. COBA
    COBA 27 November 2015 11: 29 New
    +3
    Erdogan "believed in himself", after guarantees and promises from the United States, and of course went nuts.
    1. 34 region
      34 region 27 November 2015 12: 11 New
      +3
      In my opinion, here the elementary substitutes framed him. Of course with your goals. It's like with Saakashvili in 2008. One pulled the strings, but got another. Set a dog. So the dog would not have thought to bark and bite, and so the owner vouched and ordered. Fas!
  20. nekot
    nekot 27 November 2015 11: 30 New
    +3
    Yes, a fun article. On the one hand, it is directly said that Erdogan decided that he would get away with everything when Putin did not answer his boorish statements this year and decided to provoke the SU-24, and then the author directly suggests that he continue to do so, stating that we need a strong turkey! Which supports separatism in the Caucasus and in the Crimea and is a direct enemy of our current allies, and it is clearly not against conflict with us, despite all the cries of our observers that they (the Turks), the poor, are "pushing" to this. So we clearly do not need a strong Turkey, because it is unlikely to be another in the foreseeable future. article is a solid minus.
  21. Stas57
    Stas57 27 November 2015 11: 30 New
    +1
    I need your vote.
    Question: Is Turkey justified by shooting down a Russian fighter?

    https://twitter.com/euronews

    As I understand it, this is more of a world referendum in support of, or vice versa, Russia on the Syrian issue, and not a vote about a downed plane
  22. Masya masya
    Masya masya 27 November 2015 11: 31 New
    +6
    Why do we need his apology? False as Erdogan himself ...
  23. Metallurgist
    Metallurgist 27 November 2015 11: 31 New
    +5
    Something I did not understand sending the article ...
    Who is Turkey and who is Russia?
    For starters, the author needs to understand who is who: who is a world power, and who is regional. Who is the center of power, and who rotates in orbit. Now when he understands this, then the article will be different, and now I have the impression that the Turks paid him for this article.
    Bottom line: article minus.
    Conclusion: blame all the blame on Erdogan and "whitewash" the Turks will not work. Not that situation, and Erdogan calculated it, taking into account his own people. So, so ...
    There are two conclusions: the author, and whose will you be?
    1. Mikhail Krapivin
      Mikhail Krapivin 27 November 2015 13: 19 New
      0
      Quote: Metallurg
      Something I did not understand sending the article ...
      Bottom line: article minus.
      Conclusion: the author, and whose will you be?


      The same result of reading the article, the same question to the afftor.
  24. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 27 November 2015 11: 32 New
    +4
    This article is not intelligible. Like, Erdogan can crank up and be listened to. NATO surrendered Erdogan with all his giblets; Matrasia, too. President of the parliamentary republic! Is this position or title? And his political rivals will sleep and see pink dreams? Soloviev said well. The fate of the dog, which is poisoned by the bear, is not of great interest to the hunter.
    1. Masya masya
      Masya masya 27 November 2015 11: 37 New
      +3
      Traitors despise not only friend but also enemy ...
  25. Fight cat
    Fight cat 27 November 2015 11: 34 New
    +5
    this is not a mistake, but a deliberate action, a hostile act towards Russia! and I always said, Turkey has never been friendly to us! soldier
  26. Stiletto
    Stiletto 27 November 2015 11: 35 New
    +3
    Article minus, the author is still a provocateur. "Understand and forgive," mean? - No problem! But why wait for concessions only from us? What prevents Turkey from taking the first reconciliation steps with respect to the injured party, after which it would be possible, in principle, to resume political dialogue? All that is required:

    - Guilty plea;
    - A public apology to Russia and a public condolences to the relatives of the victims;
    - Compensation to the country for two lost cars;
    - Payments of lifelong monetary support to the families of the deceased pilot and marine.


    That's it!

    And who is torpedoing all this, are we, or what? No, Perdogan. For which the first two points of the necessary minimum are not feasible because he is too proud, and the second two because, apparently, he is too greedy. Therefore, in all likelihood, and he will get what he deserves. And, it seems to me, his losses will be calculated not only by reputation costs, wormy apples and rotten tangerines.
    And by the way, the Turks themselves in this place also never feel sorry for me - I don’t see the media for their sympathy for us or at least for the indirect disapproval of the actions of their own president and government.
  27. Gunther
    Gunther 27 November 2015 11: 35 New
    +1
    sa-zz Quote:
    ErDogan said that if there is evidence that Turkey, in his person, is cooperating with terrorists, he will resign himself. I hope there is evidence. And this is his only option!

    It seems he is not very responsible for his words, since the journalists who published the facts of the sale of weapons by the Erdogan regime to thugs of igles, he accused them of espionage and requires two life sentences for them.
    Erdogan, if I am not mistaken - a warrior, and from this lying jackal, a warrior as from a well-known bullet product.
    Tobacco is now his name.
  28. C2H5OH
    C2H5OH 27 November 2015 11: 38 New
    +6
    I also think that Russia should apologize to Edragan. Urgently write on C400 rockets - "Forgive us Edragan."
  29. Dezinto
    Dezinto 27 November 2015 11: 42 New
    +5
    Apparently he was taught the tactics of psaking-claiming, in an inadequate-ukro-style ....
    1. Mikhail Krapivin
      Mikhail Krapivin 27 November 2015 13: 21 New
      +1
      Erdogan will show us a decent political reaction when his planes start sticking into the ground.
  30. Oznob
    Oznob 27 November 2015 11: 44 New
    0
    http://werewolf0001.livejournal.com/3012322.html тут немного о турецких раскладах. Болото то ещё, не удивлюсь, если его свои же военные подставили.
  31. a housewife
    a housewife 27 November 2015 11: 45 New
    +2
    "Error? Errors are not recognized. They are washed away. Blood" Caucasian captive. And the mistake is a synonym for the word sin. Of course, Russia needs a friendly Turkey. Only when was she like that? Never. The heirs of Byzantium? So they captured her, destroyed her. Is the killer the heir to the slain? By no law. Of course, sometime we’ll make peace. Well, if you reconciled with the Germans! But there is no trust for Turks for centuries and never will be. For centuries, their prowess is stabbing in the back.
  32. gg.na
    gg.na 27 November 2015 11: 48 New
    +2
    He was not mistaken! He is a traitor !!! And now there’s only one DISCUSSION to him !!! negative am
    1. Travian
      Travian 1 December 2015 12: 48 New
      0
      to be a traitor, you must be listed as a friend. and the Turks never had a friend
  33. Gunther
    Gunther 27 November 2015 11: 51 New
    +2
    I look forward to the effective operation of the S-400, in response to the threat of Erdogan:
    Erdogan said he would consider the use of the Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile system against the Turkish Air Force - in case of violation of the Syrian airspace - an act of aggression, followed by immediate counter attack.

    Scared the hedgehog perdogan.
  34. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 27 November 2015 11: 52 New
    +2
    In general, the emphasis is made correctly in that the problem now is not in Russia and Turkey, but in the shameful act of Erdogan personally! He, in order not to slide into the abyss, needs to try to smooth out as soon as possible, at least somehow miss his personal meeting and do everything that is necessary in these cases. Russia is a generous country, but everything must be done in a timely manner and not crafty.
  35. Polite Moose
    Polite Moose 27 November 2015 11: 53 New
    +2
    Summing up the summary from the article, I singled out 2 main ideas from the author: (citations)

    1. We need a strong, friendly Turkey, just as we need a nationally minded and self-sufficient part of the Turkish elite, which understands the importance of serious relations with Russia.

    2. Erdogan should and should be thoroughly taught a lesson, but without offending Turkey and pushing its people away from Russia.

    The third thought suggests itself: we are ready to cooperate with Turkey without Erdogan. There can be no more faith for him. Let the Turkish elites decide what is dearer to them: lost money (quite sickly) or the leader of the nation, dreaming of the Great Ottoman Empire, but at the same time capable of idiotic actions. I really hope that our leadership and GDP in the first place will not talk with a person who is capable of vile deeds. Whoever he is for us. Starting to revive the Ottoman Empire, it would be worthwhile to look back at the neighbors and at least ask their opinion, not to mention taking into account interests. And now a unique case appears to test the unity of the Turkish nation. Either the Turks, together with Erdogan, go to the address that they can easily find in any Russian beer house and continue confrontation with Russia, or send Erdogan there in splendid isolation, and then, following all reconciliation procedures, return to good-neighborly relations with us. For this, the pressure on the turiks from our side should be maximum in all directions.
  36. Pak_c_TonopoM
    Pak_c_TonopoM 27 November 2015 11: 56 New
    0
    The Arab world recognizes only power. Erdogan is now poured, etc. His own waxed hate. And we have proven our strength. The question of time remains. Glory to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation!
  37. Same lech
    Same lech 27 November 2015 11: 57 New
    +1
    The head of Turkish intelligence calls for the recognition of the IG

    November 26th. FINMARKET.RU - The head of the Turkish National Intelligence Organization, Hakan Fidan, spoke out in support of the Islamic State terrorist organization.
    "ISIS is a reality, and we must admit that we cannot destroy such a well-organized and popular state system as the Islamic State," said H. Fidan, who is quoted on Thursday by the weekly release of Rossiyskaya Gazeta.
    He called on his Western colleagues "to reconsider their views on the Islamic political movement, put aside their cynical mentality and thwart Vladimir Putin's plans to crush the Syrian Islamic revolutionaries."
    H. Fidan also believes that in order to resolve the problem it is necessary to open an IG office in Istanbul.
    According to the publication, many wounded IS fighters move to Turkish territory and receive assistance in Turkish military hospitals, in particular in the Hatay province.

    http://www.finmarket.ru/database/news/4168369


    Here is another piece of evidence supporting TURKEY’s DAISH militants.
  38. EvaFerrari
    EvaFerrari 27 November 2015 11: 58 New
    +1
    In a confrontation with Putin, most world politicians are trying to make cheap PR for themselves. This is a fashion or something ... However, against the backdrop of our GDP, all these cheap things remain cheap, only once again they trample themselves deeper into political non-existence.
  39. Peter endo
    Peter endo 27 November 2015 12: 03 New
    +1
    It's time to call a spade a spade: Turkey is an aggressor country that attacks all its neighbors - Cyprus, Greece, Armenia, Syria, the Caucasus, Kurdistan. The poisonous snake needs to pull out its teeth. Let them trade, receive tourists and enjoy life, not dreaming of the revival of the Ottoman Empire!
  40. mvg
    mvg 27 November 2015 12: 06 New
    +2
    Quote: Stas157
    Quote: djqnbdjqnb
    Do you want a missile strike in Turkey? But they want this in the USA too! This provocation was launched for this! Putin understands this, but you do not.

    I did not write that I want this. I think it is urgent to help the Syrians occupy the Turkish border, it continues very slowly! And arm the Kurds! They themselves ask for it!

    A group of Kurds raising funds for Christian refugees in Kurdistan wrote on their social media page that the Kurds wanted to avenge the dead Russian Su-24 pilots in the sky over Syria.

    “Dear Russia, we Kurds will be happy to avenge your pilots. Just give us MANPADS, we will make a good no-fly zone for Erdogan, ”the report said.

    And then from these MANPADS Syrian planes will fall.
  41. 3axap82
    3axap82 27 November 2015 12: 11 New
    +1
    Look, guys. There was an air battle by the way!
    in 1996, a Greek fighter shot down a Turkish Air Force fighter, killing a Turkish pilot.
    Handsome!
    http://www.utro.ru/articles/2015/07/16/1249993.shtml
    http://fxstock.ru/230220-Mezhdu-VVS-Grecii-i-Turcii-edva-ne-proizoshel-vozdushny

    iy-boiy.html
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon#.D0.9F.D0.BE

    .D1.82.D0.B5.D1.80.D0.B8
  42. gergi
    gergi 27 November 2015 12: 13 New
    +1
    Always been enemies and always will be.
  43. vladimirw
    vladimirw 27 November 2015 12: 16 New
    +5
    We need a strong, friendly Turkey,
    This is for us, you darling do not speak for the Russian people, not even when, temporarily, the Turks were not our friends.
  44. maxxdesign
    maxxdesign 27 November 2015 12: 18 New
    -1
    those who fly to Turkey every year to rest, will fly again in January .. and will spend even more money there! what are you talking about? stop tourism ... shut off gas ... take away the nuclear power plant ... already in January-February everything will be almost the same as before November 24! because for those Russians who have money to chew their asses, I’ll go far for patriotism and my country!
    1. vvp2412
      vvp2412 27 November 2015 13: 12 New
      +2
      those who have grandmothers at least sing Opoy do not fly to Turkey!
      There fly those who have no more to any foreign country!
      1. Scraptor
        Scraptor 27 November 2015 13: 37 New
        0
        In general, I never understood those who fly there and who are specially poisoned there with fake vodka ...
        To Turkey, despite the fact that they fought only in the first of the two world wars, there was greater rejection than to any of the neighbors because of the Stabmbul centuries-old slave trade (unless the descendants of those who participated in it fly there).
        Serbian transplants from Kosovo also went to Israel through them.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  45. triglav
    triglav 27 November 2015 12: 43 New
    -2
    Thanks to the author. Everything about the case. I put everything on the shelves.
  46. 3axap82
    3axap82 27 November 2015 12: 48 New
    -2
    The position of many ordinary people supported by the Russian media (Solovyov’s guests deputies) regarding the dead pilot and the downed plane reminds me of pink shameful safety glasses to preserve the psyche and dignity.
    joke.
    a man bought a car, took his wife and mother-in-law with him, and went for a drive.
    driving on a highway, standing at the curb a man catches a wheelbarrow, a husband drives
    past and the wife begins to cut him, that would be a normal husband
    I’d give a ride like I would do a good deed and earn money
    he gives back and picks up a man. They are coming, he brings them
    takes a gun into the forest belt and puts it to the wife’s head. Thinks
    young beautiful - you have to fuck, did your dirty job, to mother-in-law -
    thinks the old can only fang, tore ... and the man thinks to her husband
    what to do with it - heaped a bunch of shit and made him eat. A husband ate shit,
    and the izvat said goodbye and disappeared ...
    They go further, the wife begins the first excuse ... but he did not fuck me,
    crawled a couple of times and that's it. Mother-in-law, in turn - and I say, by mouth
    took by the cheek just stuck it and that's it. The husband thinks he was eating shit ... as if
    otmazyvatsya and says - but I didn’t eat shit, I only picked potatoes from there ...

    Humiliation is humiliation, you can come up with thousands of cunning plans and explanations but respect only the one who answers.
    1. Mikhail Krapivin
      Mikhail Krapivin 27 November 2015 13: 25 New
      -2
      The joke is so-so, and your view on the position of most Russians is openly negative. Be lenient to most, not all are as advanced and globally analytic as you.
      1. Scraptor
        Scraptor 27 November 2015 13: 30 New
        +1
        They just lower everyone through the TV ...
  47. Wolka
    Wolka 27 November 2015 12: 49 New
    +1
    conclusion: you can’t get involved in the war in any way, even if it seems to you that everything is under control, and the East, as Comrade Sukhov used to say, is a delicate matter ...
  48. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 27 November 2015 12: 51 New
    0
    Tricky plan 2, well, well.
    Will the plan include gas discounts for reputable partners and free gas supplies? Then another kind of debt will be forgiven.
  49. Mikhail Krapivin
    Mikhail Krapivin 27 November 2015 13: 00 New
    +3
    "We need a strong, friendly Turkey, just as we need a nationally minded and self-sufficient part of the Turkish elite, which understands the importance of serious relations with Russia."

    But personally, I don’t need a strong and friendly Turkey for nothing. She is, by definition, neither strong nor friendly. And to hope for something else is fiction and self-deception. We will not fight with them, it makes no sense, and we will punish without war, but playing with the Judas in arms is definitely not worth it. And by the way, about the groans of colleagues on the topic - this is damned Erdogan, but the Turks themselves are good, we still love them very much. It is worth looking at the reaction of these most beloved Turks to the news of our downed plane - they hugged, kissed, praised Erdogan, and in general arranged some kind of fiesta from our grief. And with these people I am offered to maintain good neighborly relations? Should these people be strong and friendly? Yes, let them continue to stand before the black gentleman in the pose of a beloved concubine, which Turkey, in essence, is.
  50. X
    X Y Z 27 November 2015 13: 11 New
    0
    Most likely, he incorrectly assessed Russia's mild reaction to his spring (after Putin’s trip to Yerevan) and fall (after the start of the Syrian campaign) harsh statements against Moscow ... and Erdogan most likely decided that the Kremlin had bilateral relations and joint plans are the most expensive. Russia really needs Turkey, and Moscow will not get anywhere from it, especially in a conflict with the West.


    And here are our flaws. With someone it is possible to plant ceremonies and smooth the corners, but someone needs to be put in place immediately, in order to avoid provoking relapses of megalomania. We must finally learn how to respond to arrogant attacks immediately and in the face in full. Goodwill and peacefulness are good and worthy things, but you can not use them always and everywhere, because for some, they are simply incomprehensible and indicate exclusively weakness.