Military Review

Seeing the year of the wooden sheep, we meet the year of the fire monkey

75
So, many have already written about the attack of the Turks 24.11.2015 g. On our bomber. God grant that the co-pilot was saved, as some media outlets write. But could our bomber in any way avoid the defeat of the American-made Turkish missile?


Let's compare the performance characteristics of the F-16 and the Su-24 in order to understand whether our bomber could have escaped from the Turk or offered him any opposition.

According to Wikipedia, confirmed from various sources of the Internet:

Su-24M is a modernized bomber. A new aiming and navigation system PNS-24М “Tiger” was installed. Able to automatically and semi-automatically fly over the topography of the terrain at an altitude of 50 m. 770 pcs.

Performance characteristics:
Empty weight: 22300 kg.
Powerplant: 2 × TRDDF AL-21F-3.
Maximum speed:
at a height of 200 m: 1320 km / h (without suspensions).
at high altitude: 1600 km / h (M = 1,35).
Unforced traction: 2 × 7800 kgf (76,5 kN)
Afterburner: 2 × 11200 kgf (110 kN)

Armament:
Gun-gun: 1 x six-barreled 23-mm gun GSH-6-23 with 500.

Combat load: 7500 kg (maximum), 8 armament suspension units (bombs (free-falling and adjustable), air-to-surface missiles, air-to-air missiles, EW and reconnaissance units).

General Dynamic F-16 "Fighting Falcon" (eng. General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon, literally - Attacking Falcon) - American fourth-generation multi-purpose light fighter. Developed in 1974 by General Dynamics. Transferred to operation in 1979 year.

In 1993, General Dynamics sold its aircraft manufacturing business to Lockheed Corporation (currently Lockheed Martin).
Due to its versatility and relatively low cost, the F-16 is the fourth-generation fighter of the last generation (2014 was built over 4540 aircraft in June) and enjoys success in the international arms market (it is in service with 25 countries, the 2014 is the most common combat aircraft in the world.

Performance characteristics:
Crew - 1 man.
Normal take-off weight: (with two air-to-air missiles, without PTB) with an F100 engine: 12723 — 14548 kg.
Dry weight: 7620 kg.
1 x Pratt and Whitney F100-PW-200 / 220 / 229 or 1 x engines General Electric F110-GE-100 / 129.
Power 1 x 129,40 kN.
Maximum speed 2145 km / h.
Armament six-barreled gun M-61A1 caliber 20 mm on 500 shots
6 x MK 82, 6 x AGM 84, 2 x CBU 65, 2 x CBU 88, 4 x CBU 87, 4 x CBU 89, 4 x CBU 97, 2 x CBM 10, 6 x MK 12, 2 x MK 9 x AIM 2.

Armament:
Air-to-air missiles of various ranges.
Air-to-ground missiles of various ranges and caliber.

What are the chances of this bomber to counter the Turkish Air Force fighter F-16?

1. Could Su-24 get away from pursuing a Turk if, before the attack of the latter, he understood that he would be shot down? The maximum speed of the F-16 is at least 545 km / h higher than that of our bomber. The mass of our Su-24, even empty, is at least 6-7 tons more than the F-16. Given that the Su-24 returned to the base Hamine already "unloaded", then its weight was just 22300 kg. Undisturbed and afterburner in F-16 is also higher than in Su-24 - more than half. It turns out that due to the speed and combination of flight characteristics by weight, thrust-weight ratio of the aircraft and speed of the Su-24, it would not be able to oppose the same characteristics to the F-16.

2. Could Su-24 resist F-16? Considering that F-16 acted from ambush, i.e. was aimed at a surprise attack of the Su-24, waited close to the border of the flight of our aircraft, had air-to-air missiles to destroy air targets and covered Turkey’s air defense, attacked from its airspace, flying 5-6 km deep into Syrian airspace after the attack, Su-16 even had no hypothetical chance of knocking down the F-24. Whether Su-24 is armed with air-to-air missiles, he still didn’t have time, and most importantly, information about the threat of destruction from the Turkish Air Force. Just the guys did not expect such a vile and vile strike "in the back" from yesterday's "good-natured and responsive" "friends and partners." In addition, the plan for the elimination of such incidents was previously agreed upon and approved by the RF AU and a coalition of countries led by the United States. Thus, the fact of surprise and unexpectedness of the attack by the Turkish aircraft of our bomber played.

3. What actions should pilots of Turkish aircraft take in accordance with international standards and established rules of conduct for the Air Force of civilized countries? First, by radio, contact the violator of the airspace not 2 times, as stated in the Defense Ministry, but at least 20 times; secondly, fly around the intruder and make it clear by rocking the wings so that he would pay attention; thirdly, to give a turn to the fighter’s course gun over the intruder, so that he understood that he had violated the airspace of another state. Fourth, if the intruder did not leave the airspace of the country or flew too far, then force him to land on the airfield of the country that owns the airspace. What the Turks did: they violated everything, they just fired a rocket, and the aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Force, which was not in Turkish airspace, was thrown into the plane, they thought that they had been shot down over their territory, but it turned out to be a full-fledged act of aggression towards the Russian Federation in the airspace of another state, and with violation of the border of Syria by the attacker.

Could the Su-24 pilots be saved immediately after it crashed and the pilots ejected? Could, if on the base of Hmeimim there was a duty rescue unit of Mi-8 + Mi-24 helicopters (cover) with their immediate take-off (after receiving information about the fall of the Su-24) in the presence of an evacuation group and covering the landing site (as in Afghanistan) . The fact that there was no such readiness was evident, the departure was clearly delayed, and the arrival of pilots at the crash and landing site turned out to be a prepared ambush of pro-Turkish militants who had organized firing points in advance and set off attacking groups in the places where our rescuers could land.

It is impossible to predict the total, but it may be that the rescuers ’departure was timely and properly conducted, but upon arrival at the evacuation site, our landing force received such a fire defeat that when the Mi-8 was lost, the attackers’ fighters did not have enough strength and fire means for isolating the landing site and organizing firing points with a sufficient number of heavy weapons. Unfortunately, a rescue operation to evacuate the pilots from the territory occupied by the enemy cannot have a 100% positive result, but the massive use of attack helicopters to cut off the enemy’s evacuation site and destroy its fire weapons, a sufficient number of troops with heavy weapons would have a different effect.

It is easy to discuss it on the couch, but the first case shows that the lessons of Afgan should be remembered and applied. Then the evacuation of the pilots was organized in several echelons. The first arrivals assessed the situation, landed and secured. The second echelon massaged the first landing force and evacuated the wounded (and rescued if they were found), and the third wave was already heavy armed (AGS, heavy machine guns, hand grenade launchers, single machine guns, defensive hand grenades (F-1), smoke grenades, flame throwers and etc.).

The exercises conducted in recent years and sudden checks of the combat readiness of units and subunits of the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation have a positive effect, but in combat the training is also not superfluous, and the planning of rescue operations is also necessary, as is the planning of an air offensive operation.

Implications for Turkey. The consequences have already been stated by the “sources” in the Kremlin: freezing of military cooperation, escorting bomber and attack aircraft with fighters, covering the air defense zone from the Russian cruiser Moscow, developing economic measures, terminating nuclear power plant projects in Turkey, banning tourist trips, and after returning all tourists - a complete ban in Egypt and others.

We will shoot down Turkish aircraft that violated the border of Syria. In this case, the reaction of NATO will be very harsh, even turning the hysteria up to the pre-war level.

What awaits Russia? Price increase for goods that are likely to stop purchasing in Turkey (fruits / vegetables, meat, clothes / shoes, furniture, building materials, etc.).

Findings. The operation of the Russian Aerospace Forces in Syria continues, we monitor the Turks in the area of ​​the straits and the passage of Russian ships, the strengthening of NATO forces on the borders with Syria, the beginning of the offensive of the Ukrainian army in the Donbas, the shelling of the border territory of Crimea with Ukraine, the aggravation of the situation around Transnistria and much more.

Maybe it was not for nothing that Wanga before her death predicted that the black president in the United States would be the last? Maybe the year of the fire monkey will fry the yellowstone volcano of many monkeys? I hope that this fire will be of natural origin, and not of human hands as a matter of fact.

Author:
75 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Decathlon
    Decathlon 27 November 2015 07: 27
    10
    "... I hope this fire will be of natural origin, and not human hands ..."
    So the Yellowstone volcano stirred ... They say ... repeat
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 27 November 2015 07: 30
      17
      Quote: Decathlon
      So the Yellowstone volcano stirred ...

      If he really "moves", it will not seem a little to anyone, only one more, others less.
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 27 November 2015 07: 44
        21
        This stupid volcano was given to you!
        When necessary, then it will explode, and no one will prove that they helped him, because it will not be up to him ... and no one!
        1. Enot-poloskun
          Enot-poloskun 27 November 2015 12: 41
          0
          Eh, but isn’t it possible to nail a shield to the gates of Constantinople, like an old one?
          1. crazyrom
            crazyrom 29 November 2015 20: 38
            0
            Fighting Falcon, verbatim - Attacking Falcon

            Indeed literally: fighting / fighting falcon.
      2. inkass_98
        inkass_98 27 November 2015 07: 45
        +3
        Enough for everyone, not only everyone will be able to use the Stalin Strait, because it will not be up to that, you will have to save yourself, since it will affect us much less than Europe itself.
    2. 79807420129
      79807420129 27 November 2015 07: 44
      16
      If Yellowstone wakes up, it will be such a fiery monkey that will bury all of America, Australia, and Asia and Africa will get it, while in the world there is one black monkey that is abominable.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    3. atalef
      atalef 27 November 2015 07: 51
      14
      Quote: Decathlon
      "... I hope this fire will be of natural origin, and not human hands ..."
      So the Yellowstone volcano stirred ... They say ... repeat

      not such analogies beg
      Year of the wooden sheep (ram) - Erdogan
      year of the fiery (burnt) monkey - Obama (flies out of the White House)
      1. ssergn
        ssergn 27 November 2015 08: 15
        +4
        Alexander, well, you gave. A lot of honor to Erdogan, to a year in honor of him. Erdogan may be a ram, but still he was a jackal, that's for sure.
    4. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 27 November 2015 08: 08
      +2
      Perhaps it was not in vain that Vanga predicted before his death that the black president in the USA would be the last?

      And Obama in the picture is himself and unlike what Strange ...
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 27 November 2015 08: 35
        +1
        Quote: Starover_Z
        And Obama in the picture is himself and unlike Strange ...

        It's better here -
    5. iliitchitch
      iliitchitch 27 November 2015 08: 23
      +1
      Quote: Decathlon
      "... I hope this fire will be of natural origin, and not human hands ..."
      So the Yellowstone volcano stirred ... They say ... repeat


      The asteroid is on the cumpole. God is not Timoshka - he sees a little.
    6. BABA SHURA
      BABA SHURA 27 November 2015 08: 45
      -2
      Give me the strait between mexico and canada!
  2. Wolka
    Wolka 27 November 2015 07: 28
    +2
    too emotional ...
    1. hydrox
      hydrox 27 November 2015 07: 47
      12
      Yes, not so emotionally, after all, 3 for passed ...
      An explanatory article and, unfortunately, truthful: we will have to tighten the straps, and if Putin does not disperse the Liberal Democratic Party with an immediate transition to a mobilization economy, we can really lean back to NG 2017.
    2. askort154
      askort154 27 November 2015 08: 35
      +8
      3. What actions should be taken by pilots of Turkish aircraft in accordance with international standards and prevailing rules of conduct for the air forces of civilized countries

      And here are civilized countries?
      There are international ICAO rules, according to which:
      - communication is established with the "intruder" aircraft on the working frequency and duplicated on the international frequency, both from the ground and from the "interceptor".
      - if the "intruder" does not react, then the "interceptor" becomes nearby and swaying from wing to wing, shows that you are an "intruder", at night, by flashing the side lights
      - the "offender" must respond with the same actions, if he understands and agrees. If he did not perform such actions, then
      - the "interceptor" becomes the "intruder" over the aircraft and
      opens fire from cannons on the course of the "intruder".
      - if the "intruder" does not react, then the "interceptor", on command from the "ground":
      either forces the "intruder" to land
      (actions are also described), or opens fire on defeat.
      So Turkey "landed" our civilian plane (several years ago), suspecting it of carrying "military cargo".
      This is how the Taliban planted our IL-76 in Kandahar.
      PS ICAO described all the points of the rule in general terms and in any form, while retaining the essence of sequential actions.
      1. Cook
        Cook 27 November 2015 10: 47
        +1
        The rules of ICAO (the international civil aviation organization) are not entirely suitable for the case with a front-line bomber, they stipulate the violation of the boundaries of airspace by a civilian aircraft. The only thing that these rules recommend is that the interceptor signals should be understood by everyone. It all depends on how the threat to their own security is assessed by the state in case of violation of its airspace borders by a combat aircraft of another country. Here the Turks, knowing full well that ours work across Syria, staged a provocation and now openly include a fool.
        1. WUA 518
          WUA 518 27 November 2015 11: 06
          +2
          Quote: Cook
          they stipulate violation of airspace boundaries by civilian aircraft. E
          Each Contracting State may, on the basis of the rules that it may establish, require any an aircraft entering the zones provided for in subparagraphs a) or b) above, land as soon as possible at any specified airport within its territory.
  3. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 27 November 2015 07: 29
    +4
    An article from the series last mushrooms reared up! Or is it easier to say, go back to sleep! You can only add that the wooden sheep is Turkey, and who will be the burning monkey?
  4. Mowgli
    Mowgli 27 November 2015 07: 29
    +9
    Could save pilots Su-24 immediately after its fall and the bailout of pilots? Could, if there was a helicopter rescue duty on duty at the Khmeimim base


    And how would this help save a pilot who was shot in the air during a parachute descent?
    1. mojohed2012
      27 November 2015 07: 49
      +4
      Do not tell. If rescuers took off not after 15 minutes after the pilots ejected and the plane crashed, but immediately, as the author writes, shooting in the air could at least be stopped by hitting the firing forces of the nearest units of the Syrian army or mi-24, which are constantly barrage, including not far from the border with Turkey.
      The Ministry of Defense has just stated that the rescue flight took place only 15 minutes after they learned about the attack by the Turks.
      Where did we have airspace control when the plane crashed? Where are the radio interceptors (radio technicians) working? Where the command looked. It’s right. If everything had been planned and worked out in case of aircraft loss, then the reaction to this fact would be faster.
      1. Mowgli
        Mowgli 27 November 2015 10: 52
        0
        If the rescuers took off not 15 minutes after the pilots ejected and the plane crashed, but immediately, as the author writes, the shooting in the air could at least be stopped by hitting the firing forces of the nearest units of the Syrian army



        About 15 minutes: how long does it take to evaluate that something happened + what exactly and where exactly happened + start the helicopter engine (well, it shouldn’t stand in the form of a buzzing fan) + (in parallel) load the rescue team (special forces)?
        So how much time will it take? Perhaps less than 15 minutes (even 5), but you also need to fly / discover ...
        Another thing is that you need to fly in pairs (triplets, etc.), then, perhaps, the second plane would have been able to "convince" the barmaley not to shoot at the descending pilots, but to cover themselves with rags and not shine.
      2. Yuyuka
        Yuyuka 27 November 2015 12: 09
        +1
        Where did we have airspace control when the plane crashed? Where are the radio interceptors (radio technicians) working? Where the command looked. It’s right. If everything had been planned and worked out in case of aircraft loss, then the reaction to this fact would be faster.

        this stab in the back was planned, is it really unclear? not yet the fact that the F-16 is not with American ears! two AWACS aircraft were in the area tracking target and guidance. The Americans knew exactly where our planes would be - the president announced! F-16 clearly headed towards ours ahead of time to be behind - seen on the map. Although he could well have calculated and found himself on a parallel course in order to displace in case of violation. But! It was not that task ... Our rescuers were expected on the ground, that's why the losses were ... And the filming of the crash? Professionals said it takes time to prepare such equipment, but here "quite by accident" the correspondents shot a video. How did you find the "beacon"? The technique used was not primitive - I wanted to take "living proof" of Russian aggression!
    2. Yuriy3005
      Yuriy3005 27 November 2015 08: 27
      +2
      It all depends on how our were prepared for a similar situation. In any case, the pilots managed to inform the MCC that they had been shot down. Already there was information that the commander could have shot himself. so as not to fall into the clutches of chocks.
      If the su-25 was on duty at the airport, it took them 10-12 minutes to take off and fly up to the landing site. 25 matches isolate the battlefield, preventing chocks from approaching the place of landing pilots. Next, crocodiles and mi-8s are already coming up which completely cut off the basmachi from our guys.
      The whole problem is that in our General Staff they simply did not expect such a development of events, although there were hints, but we believed that the "partners" would not attack us, the lessons of the Second World War were again in vain ...
  5. venaya
    venaya 27 November 2015 07: 31
    +7
    I do not believe that Erdogan independently made the decision to attack our bomber. This is not the size to take such a "rash" step. I think that one way or another he was pushed into it, there are always enough methods of influence. Considering that such a small fry is not able to organize such a number of ter. Acts all over the world.
    1. hydrox
      hydrox 27 November 2015 07: 55
      +6
      Do not believe correctly.
      This is clearly a summer preparation, when the black man was in difficulty and could not justify his inaction with the Daesh, and in September the whole world received his fist in the forehead from Putin - who would like this?
      And after 2 months the answer flew in ...
      Therefore, it is necessary to clean the Prospect of Liberals right now, until no one dares to object to Putin, and it is possible to be late by extending this moment to "afterward" (I mark the time axis from the point of view of the population, not Putin).
    2. sannych
      sannych 27 November 2015 08: 50
      +2
      I agree. If there had not been a black master behind his back, he would not have dared to do anything like that. There was information that recently at a meeting with Obama, they discussed this issue for several minutes, and Bardak nodded his head - approved. But of course, no one will confirm this information. Again, recall the recent promises of Keria that Russia will see the falling planes in Syria - then everything falls into place. Kerii talked about this because a provocation was already being prepared.
  6. mojohed2012
    27 November 2015 07: 31
    +3
    Apparently the article was not written today, but was moderated, because the co-pilot is alive.
  7. DIVAN SOLDIER
    DIVAN SOLDIER 27 November 2015 07: 32
    +4
    Everyone is looking at the response of Russia, if it is as it is now, the provocations, I think, will continue.
    1. venaya
      venaya 27 November 2015 07: 47
      +1
      Quote: DIVAN SOLDIER
      Everyone is looking at the response of Russia, if it is as it is now, the provocations, I think, will continue.

      My opinion is that provocations can only end if Russia is completely destroyed as a state, unless of course we are able to come up with antidotes for this phenomenon. First of all, it is worth finding the true organizers of this phenomenon, and then picking up the keys to them, they can calm down, of course, if we act correctly.
  8. mamont5
    mamont5 27 November 2015 07: 32
    +6
    “Could the pilots of the Su-24 be saved immediately after its fall and the pilots ejected? 8) in the presence of an evacuation group and cover for the landing site (as was the case in Afghanistan) .The fact is that there was no such readiness, the flight was clearly delayed, and the arrival at the place where the pilots fell and landed turned out to be a prepared ambush of pro-Turkish militants who had organized fire points and deployed attacking groups in places of possible landing of our rescuers. "

    Is not a fact. the provocation was prepared in advance. And the ambush of the militants, most likely, were also arranged in advance, as well as the video recording of everything that had happened.

    "We will shoot down Turkish planes that have violated the Syrian border. In this case, NATO's reaction will be very harsh, up to the level of hysteria to the pre-war level."

    I doubt it very much. Of course there will be screeching, but not very strong and will not pull the war. After all, everyone will know what THIS answer is for. They will express "regrets", but we are no strangers.
    1. Azitral
      Azitral 27 November 2015 10: 03
      0
      They will know not only "why". But also that - that on legal grounds. Nobody has officially canceled Syria. As well as her right to make alliances with anyone. And the Wood Aries is really not very smart. What kind of decisive gingerbread did he expect to achieve? Such that very likely troubles outweighed with a guarantee? And, most importantly, from whom? After all, they simply will not give, and they will even be declared guilty.
  9. Mihalich17
    Mihalich17 27 November 2015 07: 33
    +8
    All the prophecies of Vanga are at the tips of our "Topol"!
    ... "Poplars, you are my poplars !!!"
  10. sa-ag
    sa-ag 27 November 2015 07: 33
    +6
    "... Maybe it was not in vain that Wanga predicted before her death that the black president in the United States would be the last?"

    Well, white will come next, no wonder :-)
    1. mojohed2012
      27 November 2015 07: 35
      +5
      White outside. Black inside !!!
    2. DIVAN SOLDIER
      DIVAN SOLDIER 27 November 2015 07: 39
      +4
      Imagine what would happen if McCain became the US condom.
      1. mojohed2012
        27 November 2015 07: 43
        +3
        Nothing, just a tanned face would change into a wrinkled face with sagging cheeks and that’s all, well, a verbal stink would have been added.
      2. builder
        builder 27 November 2015 07: 50
        +1
        There is a Zhirinovsky for each McHain))))
      3. EvgNik
        EvgNik 27 November 2015 07: 51
        +1
        Quote: DIVAN SOLDIER
        Imagine what would happen if McCain became the US condom.

        There would be nothing. I mean - the Earth would not exist. The same thing if Clinton becomes president. Grandma has nothing to lose.
    3. rotmistr60
      rotmistr60 27 November 2015 07: 45
      +4
      So Obama was put in order to forever discourage the Americans from electing a black president. Therefore, black will be truly the last of the so-called African Americans.
      1. mojohed2012
        27 November 2015 07: 54
        +1
        God forbid that in general the last one was from the US elite, but they chose / appointed / transferred power to a president directly elected by the people and not from the 2 of the dominant parties.
        Utopia? - I don’t think so.
        Black people are subjected to hidden apartheid and discrimination, they are killed by white cops and crowds for a year, and young people. Although the small intestine and blacks rise, but Yellowstone can provoke anything ...
        1. ssergn
          ssergn 27 November 2015 08: 27
          0
          Study the US "democratic" electoral system. You will immediately understand that what you write is unrealistic. Only in the event of some kind of revolution or coup. But this is also impossible, their democratizers are such that they will not stand on ceremony. Something like this.
  11. Svarog5570
    Svarog5570 27 November 2015 07: 34
    +1
    Gogolit truth
  12. Turbo rabbit
    Turbo rabbit 27 November 2015 07: 36
    +6
    You forget about "heat traps". The rocket went to the engine, to heat. Yes, the crew did not have time, and most importantly, they did not leave the opportunity to perform the anti-missile maneuver. But why were the traps not involved? Or "maybe Russian", well, why not equip them? Or, there were NO warnings from the Turks! Since if they had warned them at least once, and the crew, seeing that their plane had become the target, and the rocket was coming, at least they would have shot the traps. Would they have worked or not, the question is. But the fact that they were not involved suggests that this is an ambush. And the plane would have been shot down ANYWHERE.
    1. DIVAN SOLDIER
      DIVAN SOLDIER 27 November 2015 07: 42
      +2
      So it seems that there should be sensors about warning rocket fire, did not work ???
      1. WUA 518
        WUA 518 27 November 2015 07: 54
        +3
        Quote: DIVAN SOLDIER
        So it seems that there should be sensors about warning rocket fire, did not work ???

        Yes, SPO (radiation warning system), but it works on everything that emits, and the sound and light indication is annoying and distracting, so I think it was "strangled". And there is another feature on radars operating in a quasi-continuous mode, it does not react. Yes, and when attacking missiles with IR seeker, the radar is switched on immediately before launch, to enter the range.
        1. Turbo rabbit
          Turbo rabbit 27 November 2015 08: 02
          +1
          Before the launch of the Turks, in any case, the onboard radar will turn on, and the trip will work. It's another matter whether they have something like our "Eye", when the plane launches a rocket according to the data received from the air defense radar.
          1. WUA 518
            WUA 518 27 November 2015 08: 08
            +2
            Quote: Turbo-Rabbit
            The radar will turn on, and the STR will work

            Even if it works, how much time do you have when attacking an ZPS practically point blank?
            Quote: Turbo-Rabbit
            when a plane launches a rocket according to data received from an air defense radar.

            And why is this in this case?
            1. Turbo rabbit
              Turbo rabbit 27 November 2015 08: 21
              0
              And then, that the onboard radar of the fighter will not irradiate you. And you will not know about the launch of a rocket from him. But this is secondary. In general, I mean that ours did not leave time for a reaction at all. So there were no warnings.
              1. WUA 518
                WUA 518 27 November 2015 08: 28
                +1
                Quote: Turbo-Rabbit
                And then, that the onboard radar of the fighter will not irradiate you.

                When working with thermal missiles, the system operates in a passive mode.
      2. Turbo rabbit
        Turbo rabbit 27 November 2015 07: 56
        +1
        Yes, we can and worked, but equipped cartridges with squibs were not. Then n1. about "Russian maybe".
        1. WUA 518
          WUA 518 27 November 2015 08: 03
          +2
          Quote: Turbo-Rabbit
          there were no loaded cartridges with squibs.

          Apparently we are talking about heat traps? Against matrix GOS, it is practically useless.
          1. Turbo rabbit
            Turbo rabbit 27 November 2015 08: 05
            +1
            I wrote, another question will work or not. I mean, was there a warning at all? And the whole script shows that there wasn’t.
        2. WUA 518
          WUA 518 27 November 2015 08: 29
          +1
          Quote: Turbo-Rabbit
          there were no equipped cartridges with squibs

          No aircraft technician will allow this when preparing the aircraft for a combat mission
          .
  13. Same lech
    Same lech 27 November 2015 07: 38
    +5
    In the photo, the old woman in the window suspiciously reminds me hehe human rights activist ALEKSEEVA living in the grandees of the US State Department ... what she lost there.
    1. mojohed2012
      27 November 2015 07: 40
      +2
      She watches as a monkey was set on fire and it rushes about the country, strikes anywhere, sputters and howls at the Russians for the offense of violated exclusivity, trying to put out the ass.
  14. jovanni
    jovanni 27 November 2015 07: 39
    +7
    There is nothing for us to hope for someone, be it God or a monkey. Even though fiery. We must work, raise our homeland. To build a new economy so that our products and goods are of better quality and in abundance. And for this oh how much needs to be done! And we started again not with the fact that the museum was opened to EBN. You see ... I hope it burns in hell, and the fire is hotter there than in Yellowstone ...
    1. mojohed2012
      27 November 2015 07: 42
      0
      Where's the bald hump museum?
      He is also one of the "first" who had a hand in the collapse of the great country.
  15. Zubexcom
    Zubexcom 27 November 2015 07: 45
    +2
    And what about the body of the commander of the SU-24? Was he taken or not?
    1. Turbo rabbit
      Turbo rabbit 27 November 2015 07: 57
      +1
      Yes, already at the base
  16. petr1965
    petr1965 27 November 2015 07: 45
    +3
    Why compare the performance characteristics - it's just a stab in the back, vile, vile. For a long time .. the sciences were preparing, but the enemy appeared and God forbid he was in the sky of Syria
    1. Turbo rabbit
      Turbo rabbit 27 November 2015 07: 57
      +1
      The Rat has already spoken out "If the Russian S-400 air defense system hits a Turkish plane that violated Syrian airspace, then Ankara will consider such actions an aggression."
  17. Al_oriso
    Al_oriso 27 November 2015 07: 48
    +4
    Any bad world is better than a good war.
    Bad world - Turkey shot down our plane, but says that Russia is her friend.
    As a follow-up, Russia will friendlyly arm the Kurds and add a little light to it.
    Donbass peacefully fights with Ukrainian battalions.
    Crimea most peacefully passed to Russia.
    For the sake of the world, Russia is bombing militants in Syria. And if some Turkish object comes to hand, it’s friendly, no offense.
    1. mojohed2012
      27 November 2015 07: 51
      0
      It would be necessary to peacefully beat down to hell several Turkish planes that fly up to the border with Syria, albeit without crossing.
      Then let's say peacefully, and you threatened us.
  18. tasha
    tasha 27 November 2015 08: 00
    0
    Here's another question. In the United States there is the US Air Force Special Forces ("red berets"), which is engaged in ground support of aviation operations, as well as the rescue of crews. As far as I know, there is no such service in our MTR.
  19. Altona
    Altona 27 November 2015 08: 00
    +1
    It is not clear what astrology was attached to. The bomber does not have a visual overview of the rear hemisphere, such a drawback. The fighter there was barraging ahead of time and launched a rocket or rockets at close range, for sure, there were almost no chances in any way. Thirdly, the prevention of such incidents must be decided ahead of time, by telephone, which the Turks had and which they still have not used.
  20. as150505
    as150505 27 November 2015 08: 03
    +2
    Find and destroy the pilot who shot down our plane. For others to think before executing criminal orders.
  21. cap
    cap 27 November 2015 08: 23
    0
    Quote: hydrox
    Do not believe correctly.
    This is clearly a summer preparation, when the black man was in difficulty and could not justify his inaction with the Daesh, and in September the whole world received his fist in the forehead from Putin - who would like this?
    And after 2 months the answer flew in ...
    Therefore, it is necessary right now to clean the Pr-in from the liberals, while no one dares to object to Putin, extending this moment to "afterward" you can be late (I mark the time axis from the point of view of the population, not Putin).

    Plus definitely.
    The fragment, I am sure, uses GDP. hi
  22. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 27 November 2015 08: 26
    +1
    Undoubtedly, the F-16 pilot needs to be eliminated, but it is necessary to think that those who planned the attack adequately suffer. And I think the responsible comrades are already dealing with the problem of Eelstone, just in case.
  23. SibSlavRus
    SibSlavRus 27 November 2015 08: 38
    +2
    ... "What awaits Russia? Higher prices for goods ..."

    To this question I would like to answer that "a holy place is never empty."
    For the Russian market there will still be economic battles.

    And with "our" merchants it will be like in this saying: "The dollar went up - the prices were raised. The dollar fell - not a single bastard lowers the price. So it's not about dollars, but about bastards."

    To the capitalist, just give a hint of the rationale for maximizing profits! Parasites, however, on the body of society.

    Protectionist measures are quite workable, the main thing is to stifle commercial lobbying. I will not be upset if several fans of "profit and cash" die in agony.
  24. Old26
    Old26 27 November 2015 08: 48
    0
    In general, the article is quite controversial and not everything can be agreed with the author. The main thing is that the conclusion is made on the basis of media data. What and how it was in reality, we are unlikely to find out, but even with respect to open data, some of the performance characteristics given by the author are not entirely correct.
    The first question was:
    Could the Su-24 get away from the pursuit of the Turk, if before the attack of the latter he realized that he would be shot down?

    I still think that he could. Still, speed comparisons are not correct enough

    The maximum speed of the F-16 is at least 545 km / h higher than that of our bomber.

    The maximum speed at altitude is at F-16 Block 60, it is also called "Viper" - it is 2134 at altitude and 1480 at sea level. And if at altitude the speed of the SU-24M is 1700 km, that is, 438 km less, then at sea level the speed of the Sushka is 1400 km / h (sometimes the figure is 1320). More? Yes, but not half a thousand. In addition, there is one important detail. The speed at the ground and at the altitude in the aircraft performance characteristics is indicated by EMNIP without suspensions. And if the SU could drop bombs (if they had not already been dropped by that time), that F-16 could not do it, because would be left unarmed. Therefore, I think it is not entirely correct to draw conclusions based only on the performance characteristics. We do not know the initial distance between the planes when the fighter went out to intercept, nor what their speeds were. We can only say that the fighter had more, but whether it was sufficient to catch up, if it would have been noticed at the "drying" in advance.


    The mass of our Su-24, even empty, is at least 6-7 tons more than that of the F-16. Considering that the Su-24 was returning to the Khmeimim base already “unloaded”, its mass was exactly 22300 kg. The afterburner and afterburner thrust of the F-16 is also higher than that of the Su-24 - more than half. It turns out that due to the speed and a combination of flight characteristics in terms of mass, thrust-weight ratio of the aircraft and the speed of the Su-24, I could not oppose anything to the same characteristics of the F-16.

    The reasoning is also quite controversial. The mass of SU-24, which the author indicates is the mass of an empty plane. We do not know what its mass was at the time of the defeat, how much fuel it had left. And we do not know what these characteristics of the F-16 were. Further, the author’s message is not entirely clear that the thrust of the F-16 was higher. Yes, the F-16 engine has higher traction characteristics than the SU-24. But by no means as the author writes "more than 50%". And besides, the twin-engine SU. AND SPECIFIC BRAKE at berserzh mode comparable to both aircraft. On the afterburner of the fighter, it is slightly higher (about 15%), again we can take the specific one solely from the data on the maximum characteristics. In particular, by maximum weight. Therefore, I think this point is completely incorrect by the author.

    As for the traps - yes, it is not clear why they were not used, according to the media, that the Turks said they would shoot down. And as for the rescue operation, the conclusion is also unfounded. We don’t know how many minutes the rescue team flew out and how long it took her to get there. And I agree with the comrade mamont5who wrote
    Quote: mamont5
    Is not a fact. the provocation was prepared in advance. And the ambush of the militants, most likely, were also arranged in advance, as well as the video recording of everything that had happened.
  25. solovey
    solovey 27 November 2015 09: 31
    +3
    Not only is the light tactical fighter F-16 designed specifically for the destruction of such targets (here, even a comparison of the TTD does not have to give them different tasks) so it (F-16) acted - whatever you want, call it an ambush, secretly, unexpectedly, etc. . ours simply did not think of such an attack. Another option if the Su24 saw an attack (entering a fighter’s ZPS and irradiating ours), then it would be possible to try to get away even from the first attack.
    OPTION subject to seeing the enemy entering the tail.
    1. F-16 fired (100%) a thermal side-by-side or mid-range Sparrow melee missile — the approximate capture and launch range for such a target is no more than 15-20km. Seeing our attack, they could set traps and, as a rule, a missile departure (subject to visual observation of the rocket) is carried out on it and down (in this way many left during my flight career).
    2. Next, the F-16 had to carry out a second attack attack - and this time, and already the hype, which is very disadvantageous for the Turks + search for Drying because after avoiding the attack, our people would have definitely gone to a low altitude and reported to the flight director on air - this is a real unleashing of air combat over the territory of Syria.
    In general, there is always a chance if you are ready !!!! That's why Putin said it was a stab in the back !!!!!
    Now pray the brave pilots of Turkey you will have to try very hard to stay alive against the Su-35SM and S-400 systems.
  26. gg.na
    gg.na 27 November 2015 09: 32
    0
    The Yellowstone miracle should be dealt with in a more dense mode. Surely there are people who are already solving this equation good !!! And so you look and see that the dark-skinned boy played too much bully . Is it too sweet to live ?! So the slip can get caught! wink !!!
  27. S_Baykala
    S_Baykala 27 November 2015 09: 39
    +1
    Compared to the performance characteristics of aircraft: during the Second World War, the chances of hitting the Tigers 2 in an open confrontation (head-on) for our thirty-fours were virtually zero, precisely because of the differences in performance characteristics, but ours learned to set up ambushes (somewhere there was an article, not I will find it now). And the tigers were burning. An ambush is an ambush. The odds were nil.
    The article must be read and evaluated as if you were reading it 2 days ago: apparently, it was in moderation, it was late.
  28. Pamir48
    Pamir48 27 November 2015 09: 57
    0
    "If the Russian S-400 air defense system hits a Turkish plane that violated Syrian airspace, then Ankara will consider such actions an aggression." WE WILL NOT KILL, WE WILL LAND WHERE IT WILL BE