Military Review

The Pentagon and its logic: Turkey is in the American coalition, but when the Russian plane was shot down, it was not considered in the American coalition ...

168
The decision of the Turkish authorities to shoot down the Russian bomber Su-24 was commented in the Pentagon. It should be recalled that some time ago, Russian President Vladimir Putin noted that the Turkish Air Force shot down a Russian plane involved in the counterterrorist operation in Syria, although the Russian side had previously agreed with the Americans to coordinate actions to prevent any incidents in the air (and Turkey is a member of NATO and US ally).


The Pentagon’s response is more like trying to justify it. According to the official representative of the US military, Turkey in this situation did not act within the framework of the American coalition. But the representative of the US defense department was immediately asked: when Turkey managed to withdraw from the American coalition to fight terrorism, after all, Erdogan himself had previously stated that the Turkish armed forces belong to coalition structures together with the United States.

The Pentagon and its logic: Turkey is in the American coalition, but when the Russian plane was shot down, it was not considered in the American coalition ...


RIA News cites the text of a statement by Lieutenant Colonel Michel Baldanza, a Pentagon representative. She stated the following:
Turkey is part of the coalition. However, we believe that all countries have the right to control and protect their airspace. These actions were undertaken by Turkey in this direction and, therefore, are not actions within the coalition.


Declaring that Turkey had the right to protect its airspace, the Pentagon does not confirm the statement made by the representative of the General Staff of the Turkish Armed Forces that the Su-24 of the Russian Federation Air Force was in Turkish airspace.

From the statement of the representative of the Pentagon Steve Warren:
The incident occurred at the border, that's all I can tell you. We are still trying to collect and analyze all the data.
Photos used:
gotuda.ru
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  1. Hubun
    Hubun 24 November 2015 18: 35
    82
    From time immemorial, the Turks of Russia have been dirty, well, I do not believe in friendship with them. Waited for meanness from them and waited, unfortunately. And I remember with an urgent poster in the materiel of the barracks, still Soviet, with samples of the armament of a potential enemy. And there were the USA and Turkey for some reason
    1. sanja.grw
      sanja.grw 24 November 2015 18: 40
      30
      From time immemorial, the Turks of Russia have been dirty, well, I do not believe in friendship with them

      The crescent is silent
      And again from the East, a mysterious wind blew.
      The crescent is silent
      And again go to war Petersburg and Istanbul.
      1. Baikonur
        Baikonur 24 November 2015 18: 41
        43
        19.11.2015/XNUMX/XNUMX: said in the commentary to the article "Bloody revenge of Tayyip Erdogan":
        Not only can they not be trusted, they must always remember in the mind that this is real - the enemies have always been!
        Here is the proof! really bloody!
        And someone set cons!
        And they said:
        -Article -vanging the final, the author himself recognizes unknown .. in the furnace
        -Judging by the cons, there are so many specialists on the history of Turkey .. think with your brain and not about the red how the bulls react ..
        1. aktanir
          aktanir 24 November 2015 19: 12
          14
          I don’t understand one thing, why did our military send only two helicopters to rescue and why did they send so late? almost in the morning we have been following the reports of the Turkish media about a Russian aircraft shot down directly by the Turkish military. It’s as if our Ministry of Defense didn’t know at all, while everything kept repeating about a certain blow from the ground on the plane. And the rescue team became known only in the afternoon. This is actually a war zone, which two helicopters were all the more late and one could have expected a horde of armed famines on the spot. This overpopulated Asia, crowds of people are everywhere, even in hard-to-reach places. So they got the loss of one turntable and are not excluded (pah-pah, God forbid) losses among search engines.
          I am not an expert, but I expected something more complex, powerful and thought out in the rescue operation. Our specialists had time to think through such actions for 2 months already, as in Syria.
          1. mad
            mad 24 November 2015 20: 50
            +1
            Quote: aktanir
            This overpopulated Asia, crowds of people are everywhere, even in hard-to-reach places.

            In general, I agree, but here the Middle East, not Asia)
            1. Scraptor
              Scraptor 25 November 2015 08: 19
              0
              When we punish her for this, she will also not be considered in the American coalition ...
        2. Asadullah
          Asadullah 24 November 2015 19: 12
          38
          And someone set cons!
          And they said:


          The concept of "wise gudgeon". Frankly, I didn't expect it so quickly. I thought this would happen after the approach of Assad's troops to the borders of Turkey. What he wrote about. The question is now what? What considerations would be?

          My considerations, the Kurds, are autonomy, weapons, air defense systems, a representative office in Moscow. Armenian Genocide - in the first media place. To move Turkmenistan in all interests in the Caspian, at the expense of Iran. Turkish business - babay-kebab, shashlik-mashlik - to their historical homeland. Turkish goods - duty called SU. Yes, we still need to start looking for "good Taliban". And it was necessary to start yesterday.

          Always despised Russian whores confused with the Turks. Now to disgust.
          1. opus
            opus 24 November 2015 19: 27
            12
            Quote: Asadullah
            I have such considerations for the Kurds - autonomy, weapons, SAM, a representative office in Moscow.

            Everything is logical.
            Another SAM (type "Buk") to Syria?
            Ban air connections with Turkey, recall of ambassadors, evacuation of tourists
            And?
            And so the question of the straits arises.
            Bosphorus and Dardanelles




            (What we inherited)


            ================
            What and how to supply the RF Armed Forces in Syria?
            If tomorrow Turkey blocks the straits.


            / I think so and that was the idea of ​​the main organizer of NATO and the attack on the Russian Su-24
            1. Max_Bauder
              Max_Bauder 24 November 2015 20: 19
              +1
              Quote: opus
              What and how to supply the RF Armed Forces in Syria?
              If tomorrow Turkey blocks the straits.


              it has no right, this is an official declaration of war, not for this the Russians died in 1877-78 so that the Turks could block the Black Sea fleet.
              1. Asadullah
                Asadullah 24 November 2015 20: 40
                +3
                has no right,


                Yes, that’s exactly what I wanted to answer. There are contracts, a convention and the attached protocols, which are not in the public domain. As I understand it, the closure of the straits automatically implies a declaration of war legally.
              2. opus
                opus 24 November 2015 22: 11
                -1
                Quote: Max_Bauder
                not eligible, this is the official declaration of war

                1. Will take and block.
                Forget it by the forces of the Navy and Air Force, it's stupid how ours blocked the exit of Ukrainian ships from Sevastopol (the same treaty, the same "official declaration of war")


                Most of the Russian cargo flow following this route (Bosphorus and Dardanelles) is oil and oil products (about 150 million tons of oil and about 105 million tons and oil products per year)

                in 2004, when the volume of Russian oil export increased significantly, Turkey imposed restrictions on the movement of vessels in the Bosphorus (losses of $ 100 per day). AND?

                2.In WW1, the British from the Dardanelles and Russia from the Bosphorus could not block the straits (or release)
            2. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 24 November 2015 20: 49
              +7
              Quote: opus
              What and how to supply the RF Armed Forces in Syria? If tomorrow Turkey blocks the straits.
              The Black Sea Straits are international, the legal status is regulated by the Mantreux Convention (1936). The blockade of the straits is tantamount to declaring war. Turkey is a bastard, but not a suicide.
              She looked more like a jackal: bit by bit on the sly, realized what would happen for it and fled to NATO (to Sherkhan) for protection. Now in Brussels, NATO ambassadors are tensing about this ...
              Quote: opus
              I think so and that was the idea of ​​the main organizer for NATO and the attack on the Russian Su-24
              States - Radish. But I do not think that they are happy with this provocation. Turkey put them in an uncomfortable position of choice: justifying Turkey means taking the side of the Islamic State, but merging a NATO member is also not comme il faut.
              I think the States will have to bustle, face the obvious - and this does not bring political devidets.
              And we will hit Turkey economically.
              IMHO.
              1. opus
                opus 24 November 2015 22: 28
                +3
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                The blockade of the straits is tantamount to declaring war.

                Hardly.
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                Turkey is a bastard, but not a suicide.

                -If they did not have NATO behind them, and specifically the United States, they would silently consider the flights of aircraft of the Russian Armed Forces over their territory
                -No using nuclear weapons do nothing with Turkey at the moment:
                1. Ground Forces (410) of Turkey are considered second strongest in the NATO bloc, after the US Army.
                (Agitation of the times of the USSR Armed Forces)

                2. Turkish Navy is superior to the Black Sea Fleet

                24 frigate URO and at least 20 modern missile boats Kiliç.
                Today in terms of the number of cruise missiles in the first salvo, the Turkish fleet is almost three times the size of the Russian Black Sea Fleet. The number of anti-ship missiles in the salvo of a naval group of the Turkish Navy is 280 (252 Harpoon, 16 Penguin, 12 Exozet), Black Sea Fleet - 84 (16 Basalt, 26 Mosquito, 18 Malachite, 4 Termite ", 4" Frontier ", 16 torpedoes).
                (excluding Caliber and recent changesth)
                Three-fold superiority of the "southern neighbor"
                + 11 Turkish submarines (the process of replacing obsolete American boats of Guppy and Tang types with German 209/1200 and 209/1400 projects is almost complete)

                + Air Force
                Tusas F-16C + Tusas F-16D = 208 units and 26x Canadair NF-5A
                + All this is at hand (how difficult was it for that alliance to take Sevastopol in the XNUMXth century?)
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                I think the US will have to bustle, muzzle

                They are not the first time "Sty in the eyes, they say God's dew"
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                And we will hit Turkey economically.

                It would be better of course (the soul requires) a couple of ZM-14 (with KBCH) here

                Yes, I am for ...
                But:
                -
                Quote: opus
                Most of the Russian cargo flow following this route (Bosphorus and Dardanelles) is oil and oil products (about 150 million tons of oil and about 105 million tons and oil products per year)

                -Turkey directly began delivering food to the Crimea
                (From October 1 to 19, 406,67 tons of products were delivered from Turkey to Crimea: 385,07 tons of fresh fruits and 21,6 tons of dried fruits)
                1. avdkrd
                  avdkrd 25 November 2015 00: 21
                  +1
                  Quote: opus
                  Without using nuclear weapons nothing can be done with Turkey at the moment:

                  And who said that one should fight with Turkey without nuclear weapons? Russia's military doctrine allows this. Regarding NATO and the "bulwark of crap" - if the strike does not touch the NATO bases, no one, seeing the seriousness of their intentions, will come out. A third of the world will not take place from this, everyone will only cross - well, not for us.
                  1. opus
                    opus 25 November 2015 01: 18
                    0
                    Quote: avdkrd
                    And who said that Turkey should be fought without nuclear weapons?

                    What about the tourists?

                    And the ecology of the Black Sea and Mediterranean basins?

                    /
                    Do not forget:
                    1. Insirlinka Air Base (Turkey) - the largest nuclear weapons storage warehouse in Europe (well, if Turkey. Considered Europe) with 25 underground storage facilities . Each storage can hold up to four bombs with a maximum full basic ability to contain up to 100 bombs. In 2000, there were up to 90 B61 nuclear munitions or 3-4 bombs in storage. This included those 40 that were destined for delivery by Turkish F-16s from Balikesir airbase and Akinci airbase. There are currently about 50 based on those. 2-3 pcs. in each of 21 stores in the new security perimeter.


                    (there is also a battery in Akinchi, in Balikesir, in Eskisehir, in Erhach where nuclear weapons were previously stored — as now, xs, but in satellite images of Eskisehir and Erhach airbases, WS3 type gas stations are clearly visible)


                    2. On September 22, 2014, in a number of influential publications (Welt am Sonntag, The National Interest, Die Welt, etc.), the former head of the planning department of the German Ministry of Defense, H. Hans Rühle, published data from the Federal Intelligence Service of Germany (BND) fully confirming our findings. In particular, according to Rühl, "the intelligence community of Germany and a number of other countries believes that Turkey is working not only on its military nuclear program, but also on a program for delivery vehicles."
                    --------------------
                    Turkish Air Force pilots (however, like all NATO pilots, except for the "newly baptized" Young Europeans, are trained to use nuclear weapons (NATO doctrine), and every year they train

                    Do you find B61 simulators?
                2. Weyland
                  Weyland 25 November 2015 02: 20
                  0
                  Quote: opus
                  Without using nuclear weapons nothing can be done with Turkey at the moment:


                  Strategic Missile Forces and without nuclear filling, a lot of things can. So the advantage of the Turks over the Black Sea Fleet will not play a role.
                  1. opus
                    opus 25 November 2015 13: 16
                    +1
                    Quote: Weyland
                    Strategic Missile Forces and without nuclear stuff can do a lot of things.

                    Naive
                    1. The Strategic Missile Forces (except aviation) do not have non-nuclear charges.
                    Strategic Rocket Forces: Intended for nuclear deterring possible aggression and defeat as part of strategic nuclear forces or self-massed or group-nuclear missile strikes of strategic objectslocated in one or more strategic directions and forming the basis of the enemy’s military and military-economic potentials
                    2. Not every ICBM Strategic Missile Forces can reach Turkey (too close)
                    On the Basically All Russian ground forces are armed with Strategic Rocket Forces intercontinental mobile and mine-based ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads.
                    RS-26 (KY-26 / SS-X-31) according to unverified data can be launched for 2000-6000 km.
                    The rest "work" from 5500 km
                    Quote: Weyland
                    So the advantage of the Turks over the Black Sea Fleet will not play a role

                    How can the Strategic Missile Forces help the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy?
                    All strategic weapons are designed for firing at FIXED AIMS
                3. The comment was deleted.
              2. TanyaKar
                TanyaKar 25 November 2015 04: 09
                0
                Yes, the States are just a radish, and the Ottomans are just hooligans ...
                And besides, economically, you can somehow throw something more serious to finally understand the Erdogans hooligans and realize
                why shouldn’t you do this to Russia?
              3. TVM - 75
                TVM - 75 25 November 2015 05: 47
                0
                It seems to me that the Turks will blame everything on their pilot. We told him, but he didn’t understand that.
            3. Kito
              Kito 25 November 2015 10: 30
              -1
              the question is solved something like this
          2. Morrrow
            Morrrow 24 November 2015 19: 38
            +1
            They need to tear their heads off, as the French tear off their own at 46
      2. just exp
        just exp 24 November 2015 19: 09
        +5
        and when the Turks come from the Russian female genital organ, with it not the one with the hair.
        the truth is not now, but later, because of Greece.
        The elder Paisiy Svyatorets (Esnepidis, 1924-1994), in the beginning of the 90s predicted the war between Russia and Turkey: “God will arrange. In this war, everyone will come out victorious. The Greek army will be a spectator. No one will return the winner. Palestine will be the arena, their grave is the Dead Sea. This will be the first half-time. But there will be a second half-time: after these events, a person will become hopeless, and then everyone will study the Gospel and the Scriptures. Christ will have pity on the world and show a sign for faith. Then look for the unbeliever ...
        Thought tells me that many events will happen: the Russians will occupy Turkey, Turkey will disappear from the map, because a third of the Turks will become Christians, a third will die in the war and a third will go to Mesopotamia.
        The Middle East will become the scene of wars in which Russians will take part. A lot of blood will be shed, the Chinese will cross the Euphrates River, having an army of two hundred million, and reach Jerusalem. A characteristic sign that these events are approaching will be the destruction of the Omar mosque, as its destruction will mean the beginning of the reconstruction of the temple of Solomon by the Jews, which was built on this site.
        In Constantinople there will be a great war between Russians and Europeans, and a lot of blood will be shed. Greece will not play a leading role in this war, but Constantinople will be given to it. Not because the Russians will revere the Greeks, but because they will not be able to find a better solution ... The Greek army will not have time to go there, as the city will be given to it.
        Jews, because they will have the strength and help of the European leadership, become impudent and behave with shamelessness and pride, and try to rule Europe .... They will build many intrigues, but through the persecution that ensues, Christianity will unite completely. However, it will not unite in the way those who want to organize a worldwide “unification of churches,” wanting to have one religious leadership at the head, want to unite. Christians will unite because in this situation, the separation of the sheep from the goats will occur. Then "a single herd and one Shepherd will be realized in practice ... I was told that the Chinese army at the moment is two hundred million, that is, the specific number that St. John writes about in Revelation. When you hear that the Turks block the waters of the Euphrates at the head of the dam and use them for irrigation, then know that we have already entered into the preparation of the great war, and in this way the way is prepared for the two hundred millionth army from sunrises, as Revelation says. ”
        Turkey already erected a dam on the Euphrates River in 1990. Ataturk Dam is the largest in a series of 22 and 19 hydroelectric dams built on the Euphrates and Tigris rivers in 1980-1990. On January 13, 1990, Turkish hydraulic engineers stopped the flow of the Euphrates to Syria for a month to fill the dam reservoir with water
        1. just exp
          just exp 24 November 2015 19: 12
          +3
          here from him
          From the article by Athanasius Zoitakis about the prophecies of Paisius the Holy Mountaineer: “Once, Mr. D.K. visited the elder Paisius. At that time, the USSR was a strong and powerful power, and no one could even suggest that it could collapse (it was back in the era of Brezhnev).
          By the way, the elder said to him:
          - You will see that soon the USSR will fall apart.
          Mr D. objected:
          “But such a powerful power, geronda, who will be able to break up?” And they dare not touch his fingernail.
          - You will see!
          The elder predicted that Mr. D. himself would be an eyewitness to the collapse of the USSR, despite his advanced age.
          The elder continued:
          - Know that Turkey will fall apart. There will be a war that will last two halves. We will be winners because we are Orthodox.
          “Geronda, will we tolerate damage in the war?”
          “U, at most, one or two islands will be occupied, and Constantinople will be given to us.” See, see! ”
          The Greek elder Paisius emphasized that the liberation of the city would occur without the direct participation of Greece itself: “We will take Constantinople back, but not ourselves. Due to the fact that the majority of our youth has fallen, we are not capable of this. However, God will arrange for others to take the City and give it to us. ”
          “Once I met Elder Paisius, who was somewhat embarrassed and upset. He treated me and began a conversation himself:
          “Some came here and began to tell me that a war would start, the Turks would enter Greece and drive us six miles to Corinth (thus they interpreted the prophecy of Cosmas of Aetolia with their corrupted thoughts). <...> Although I do not like to talk about prophecies, they forced me to explain to them the meaning of the six nimbles, which Saint Cosmas speaks of, and this is nothing but six miles of the sea shelf. This is the topic over which we have been grieving with Turkey in recent years and over which we will eventually "grapple". However, they will not enter Hellas: they will only advance these six miles, and then they will find a great calamity from the northas the scriptures say, and all their plans will collapse. ”
          1. The lead
            The lead 24 November 2015 19: 37
            0
            Quote: just explo
            here from him
            He attended a lecture of a famous Buddhist teacher in the mid-90s. He said that there is a Buddhist prophecy: a war is coming between the northern country and the southern one, which will grow into a world war. Thanks to the fact that the northern country will be led by a holy Buddha, the northern country will victory. However, the teacher did not give a date, although he added that 150 years after this world war another world war would begin.
            1. just exp
              just exp 24 November 2015 19: 46
              +1
              Well, if you still read on this topic, it is believed that precisely after this war the light of Orthodoxy will shine all over the world, the anointed Orthodox Tsar will become the head of Russia, Russia will become the main power of the planet, and it will be before the end of the world, then the Antichrist will come.
              1. The lead
                The lead 24 November 2015 21: 03
                +1
                The similarity of prophecies from various religious cultures is striking: Buddhist and Orthodox.
                Quote: just explo
                , Russia will become the main power of the planet
                As the holy Buddha is portrayed in Orthodox prophecies: a brilliant mind, iron will, fiery heart. In fact, Buddhists believe in the existence of alien civilizations is part of the usual Indian ideas, in this regard, the teacher said that the ruler had previously reincarnated as a highly developed civilization, where became a Buddha, there he died, then was born on Earth.
                Quote: just explo
                and it will be before the end of the world
                This is probably what is meant in the Buddhist prophecy that 150 years will pass between world wars, that is, the end of the world will be 150 years after the third world war.
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Finches
      Finches 24 November 2015 18: 40
      32
      It’s necessary! We should hang another shield on the gate ...! Americans do not need this hemorrhoid! They well remember how, due to the deployment of missiles in Turkey, our missiles appeared in Cuba ...! They will blow their cheeks and no more. Europe will quiet down now and will monitor how tough Russia will behave - it’s one thing to show off on the supply of cheese and pasta, it’s another thing to clearly understand that Russia is a nuclear power and a self-respecting power! And considering that Turkey is a NATO member, but Russia is a CSTO member, it’s not enough no one will seem! But Europe needs it ...?
      1. Sterlya
        Sterlya 24 November 2015 18: 50
        +2
        Quote: Finches
        Americans do not need this hemorrhoid! They well remember how, due to the deployment of missiles in Turkey, our missiles appeared in Cuba ...! They will blow their cheeks and no more. Europe will now be quiet and will monitor how tough Russia will behave - it’s one thing to show off on the supply of cheese and pasta, it’s another thing to clearly understand that Russia is a nuclear power and a self-respecting power!

        Yes, I think that another conflict amers just in favor. Sami themselves are unlikely to be hemorrhoidal, and the Turks will be further incited to provocation, to supply weapons to the Turks and ig.
        1. Finches
          Finches 24 November 2015 18: 53
          +8
          The Americans now have nothing to suit - neither peace nor war in this region! And you need to harness for the Turks - a member of NATO, but Russia is not alone! And it is not yet known how China will behave?
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 24 November 2015 19: 00
            +8
            Quote: Finches
            The Americans now have nothing to suit - neither peace nor war in this region! And you need to harness for the Turks - a member of NATO, but Russia is not alone! And it is not yet known how China will behave?

            The pity is that there are a lot of our citizens in Turkey and it’s impossible to answer all the tourists even by force. It’s clear that the answer will be now (economic and political) and most likely the military, when tourists are evacuated from Turkey.
            1. PQ-18
              PQ-18 24 November 2015 19: 08
              +3
              there, in addition to tourists, a lot of real estate of Russians on the Mediterranean coast
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 24 November 2015 19: 10
                +5
                Quote: PQ-18
                there, in addition to tourists, a lot of real estate of Russians on the Mediterranean coast

                As well as the Turks in Russia
              2. Terner38
                Terner38 24 November 2015 19: 18
                17
                For real estate I spit theirs, and my little pot-bellows are dried up, berets, an automatic machine with three horns and mobilization. That is, the landing has already been landed.
              3. AlexTires
                AlexTires 24 November 2015 19: 30
                +1
                and add shares in the travel industry ...
            2. Finches
              Finches 24 November 2015 19: 10
              16
              A small example from the story. If you remember, the German resorts were the favorite vacation spots served by the Russian Empire before the First World War - and immediately after the shots in Sarajevo, persecution of our people began there! There was no war yet, but the Germans were already spreading our tourists: they arrested, accused of espionage en masse, did not change their will and threw them out of hotels, men of draft age were closed in concentration camps without trial and investigation ... Then there were more than one western b. ..not harnessed! Neither the Americans, nor the British, nor the French! But then we killed two armies in the Masurian swamps in order to pump out German divisions from the Western Front, so that Paris could stand ...!
              And then the Turks harnessed the same for nemchuru and they were lucky that we didn’t enter Istanbul and Ankara with our Transcaucasian Front!
              1. TanyaKar
                TanyaKar 25 November 2015 04: 20
                0
                Unfortunately, Paris does not cry and does not remember that two Russian armies were killed for it ...
                it is necessary to somehow survive ... So, the battle continues again and the heart is anxious in the chest ....
            3. komendant 64
              komendant 64 24 November 2015 19: 18
              +3
              The sequence of our further actions to break the relationship is obvious. But it’s not worthwhile to bring it to open hostilities.
              In my opinion, it is necessary in every possible way to promote the creation of Qudistan in the territories of Syria and Turkey. For Assad, the creation of a buffer union zone would be a boon, for Turkey - a headache. Well, from our side - all-round assistance with weapons to the "brotherly" Kurdish people.
          2. Ka-52
            Ka-52 24 November 2015 21: 24
            +1
            This incident happened too early, Oland went to gather a coalition against ISIS, and here is such a "gift". Only relations between Europe and Russia have "warmed up", stsuki. am
        2. 222222
          222222 24 November 2015 21: 53
          +1
          "The Pentagon and its Logic: Turkey is ..."

          ..interesting if the Turks shot down an American or an Israeli plane like that ... ?? ... after how many minutes would there be a response .. ???
      2. The lead
        The lead 24 November 2015 19: 07
        -3
        Quote: Finches
        It’s necessary! We should hang another shield on the gate ...!
        It would be nice, but it seems to me that GDP will not be decided, even DAM will be more decisive, recall 2008. I would like to make a mistake.
        1. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 24 November 2015 19: 31
          11
          Quote: Lead
          It seems to me that GDP can not be resolved, even DAM is more decisive, remember 2008.

          Nano-President is more determined ???? 2008 year ??? Does someone seriously believe that he was deciding something in 2008? laughing laughing laughing They planted the zits-chairman to warm the stool for 4 years, so that they would not be stolen, but he "decided"? You will remember the joke, how exactly Kudrin was kicked out. The integral President says to him "write a statement", and he says "I need to consult with Vladimir Vladimirich". And VVP took it and merged it (and rightly so, by the way, did it - no figs with their initiative to climb where they don't ask) - and there was a reason!

          On issues such as 08.08.2008, no one with a pipe would allow the boy to make decisions. Voice - please! So, there is no need for political will or courage - only an intelligent face and mouth to speak. RUSNANO to inspire and admire 6800 rubles with bulbs for interior lighting - this is serious work for the nano-President ...
          1. The lead
            The lead 24 November 2015 21: 21
            -2
            Quote: Zoldat_A
            Does someone seriously believe that he was deciding something in 2008?
            I think so. It can be negatively related to the personality of DAM, I am very critical of him. What is your strange conspiracy theology: supposedly someone controls the president of the Russian Federation, supposedly not independent? Then DAM was the full president of the Russian Federation, endowed with all power and responsibility , therefore, it would be naive to believe that DAM remained subordinate to GDP. To say this is to show disrespect for the highest position, the highest institution of power, this is not about DAM, but about the President of the Russian Federation.
            Quote: Zoldat_A
            "I need to consult with Vladimir Vladimirich"
            Remember what LADY answered to Kudrin then: "You can go to anyone, but currently I am the President of the Russian Federation." Therefore, to say that the LADY did not play any leading role in decision-making in 2008 is just an indiscriminate defamation, which in reality does not there are no objective grounds for it. Just like the fact that the course towards rearmament of the army, an increase in defense expenditures, was started by the DAM, which is why the pick with Kudrin, which you mentioned, took place.
            1. Zoldat_A
              Zoldat_A 24 November 2015 22: 02
              +1
              Quote: Zoldat_A
              Does someone seriously believe that he was deciding something in 2008?
              Quote: Lead
              I think so.
              So am I against it? Consider ... laughing

              I myself am not at the same age that they would send me to run around the mountains with a machine gun - I would run back completely, but talked with those who were there in 2008. Therefore, his opinion about those events amounted to.

              And God forbid you! - I do not interfere with my opinion - about the decisive, guiding and guiding iron will of the nano-President. laughing
          2. 3officer
            3officer 24 November 2015 21: 40
            0
            The image of this character (Medvedev) looks inappropriate and stupid even in patriotic videos, and this is only the most innocent of his "services" to the Fatherland.
    4. sssla
      sssla 24 November 2015 18: 41
      10
      Quote: Hubun
      Well, I do not believe in friendship with them

      And who spoke of friendship with the gan-mi of the Turkish spill ??? This, with all their ambition, is only six in the hands of en Glosaks! Just SHESTERK And like their friends from the Crimea whose name is Ta Rami !!! During the Second World War they passed an excellent exam !!!
    5. 79807420129
      79807420129 24 November 2015 18: 44
      15
      Let’s little brothers don’t wave our sabers, but this Turkish scarecrow got these too, they are moving away from him, but they will not come closer to us either, we will look, as they say, but keep your head cold.
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. Grenader
      Grenader 24 November 2015 18: 45
      24
      The situation is very complicated. Turkey should be punished, but they can create problems for us. You can forget about the Turkish stream, in addition, the Turks can complicate our passage through the straits into the Mediterranean Sea, which makes it difficult to supply our group in Syria. In the general problem with many unknowns, but it will still have to be solved. And the longer I live the more I regret the collapse of the USSR. Previously, such things with us were fraught with disastrous consequences for the adversary, but now they are impudent. DISCUSSION.
      1. Andrey NM
        Andrey NM 24 November 2015 19: 06
        +9
        It seems to me that this situation frees our hands, now we can bomb the Turkomans, not paying attention to the calls of ambassadors, etc. And now there is no concept of "moderate opposition". And even there can be no talk of buffer zones.
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 24 November 2015 19: 40
          +7
          Grenader (1)
          You can forget about the Turkish stream.
          For example, I did not count on the Turkish stream. Erdogan has his own oil raider business (they already wrote about this) - he, in fact, raids (robs) for himself personally in his pocket, and for Turkey, too, oil in Syria with the help of ISIS paramilitary units. (In other words, Erdogan is a high-ranking raider bandit.) Russia, with its Turkish stream, could not have Erdogan reimbursed his raider excess profits from his commercial oil business. Therefore, negotiations between Turkey and the Russian Federation ended unsuccessfully. Moreover, the struggle of Syria and Russia against ISIS is a struggle against the raider business of Erdogan himself. More classics said that there is no such crime that the capitalist would not commit for the sake of his superprofits. Therefore, Erdogan, having bitten a bit, openly independently got involved with Russia in the war. And the Americans will look at all this on the principle of “My hut from the edge - I don’t know anything!” And rub their handles with pleasure. Their war between Turkey and Russia is quite satisfied. I think that at the same time Zrdogan will lose everything.
      2. Basarev
        Basarev 24 November 2015 19: 14
        +7
        This is because outside our Russian disorder is visible. The Frenzied Duma, megacorruption, extortion, loss of Russian rights ... Previously, in all centuries, frank pests and traitors of the Motherland were exiled and mercilessly expended ... But now they have settled in power and are ready for any baseness against Russia for the approval of the West . Therefore, I will not be surprised that, as always, we swallow this glaring incident.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 24 November 2015 19: 42
        +5
        Quote: Grenader
        You can forget about the Turkish stream, in addition, the Turks can complicate our passage through the straits into the Mediterranean Sea, which makes it difficult to supply our group in Syria.

        The Turks have no mind at all. Well, they would have waited a little longer until our Turkish Stream is completed. And then - and the experience of the "war" with Ukraine shows - war - war, and Gazprom - Gazprom. No, you have to bend over to America right now and put a bad smelly substance in your own pocket. Yes, and Turkish allinklyuziv, I think, brought good money. America won't go to Turkey - they go to Hawaii ... And now the Foreign Ministry has already called to refrain from traveling to Turkey. For example, in general, I have never been and never intended to - I have my own all-inclusive all year round on the Volga, at my dacha. But the Turks with their hotels seem to have got ...

        And about the straits ... And let them try to shoot down or sink ... GDP said the same - "stab in the back" - because they did not expect. Now we will wait ... am
        1. mmmsoc
          mmmsoc 24 November 2015 20: 44
          +1
          And, imagine that all sorts of "strategists" will come to visit them (TU-95, TU-160)
      5. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 24 November 2015 21: 40
        +3
        Quote: Grenader
        Previously, such things with us were fraught with disastrous consequences for the adversary, but now they are impudent.
        The USSR - the second world economy, the Russian Federation - occupied the 10 place in the 2014 year in terms of GDP ...
        Economics is the basis of defense. The USSR had an ATS, the Russian Federation had a CSTO, it is difficult to compare these military structures ... The power of the ATS is obvious.
        About impudence. Erdogan went all over the bank, saving his family business, a free flow of oil according to the 12doll. per barrel in the Turkish economy and the source of funding for the IG.
        As for the * DISORDER * - you are right.
    8. Sterlya
      Sterlya 24 November 2015 18: 47
      +9
      Miserable Turks, scoundrels. And also with them a visa-free regime. This is so that tourists with Ishilovites are free to go here. And what benefit is Russia from this regime?
      1. mult-65
        mult-65 24 November 2015 19: 03
        +2
        Not to Russia, but to individual representatives (from it).
      2. AUL
        AUL 24 November 2015 19: 37
        +1
        Frozen, Janissaries! They think that they are holding us by the Turkish stream? But we can also return to the South Stream - the Bulgarians already whined when we abandoned them. The answer must be given a radical one - for example, to block the flow of our tourists to them (you can find methods), curtail joint projects (nothing, our moneybags will tolerate). Such slaps cannot be tolerated, because the destruction of our aircraft in a foreign space is tantamount to declaring war on us!
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 24 November 2015 19: 49
          +2
          Quote: AUL
          Frozen, Janissaries! They think that they are holding us by the Turkish stream?

          Are you so naive, believing that this is Erdogan’s personal decision? Such decisions are made not in Ankara, but in Washington or Brussels.
          Quote: AUL
          The answer must be given a radical one - for example, to block the flow of our tourists to them (you can find methods)

          First you need to take out those who went there.
          Quote: AUL
          collapse joint projects (nothing, our moneybags will tolerate)

          Most likely it will.
          Quote: AUL
          Such slaps cannot be tolerated, because the destruction of our aircraft in a foreign space is tantamount to declaring war on us!

          I agree with that. hi
    9. arane
      arane 24 November 2015 18: 48
      42
      Quote: Hubun
      From time immemorial, the Turks of Russia have been dirty, I don’t believe in friendship with them. I waited for meanness from them and waited, unfortunately


      This is a test ball. If we do not answer, everyone will start kicking us.
      I do not propose starting a war with Turkey, but we can answer.
      1. Stop all economic relations, the ban on the import of all Turkish goods.
      2. Close a tourist relationship.
      3. Close the sky over Syria for Turkish combat aircraft (warn and shoot down)
      4. start supplying weapons (including air defense equipment) to the Kurds, recognize the Kurds as fighters with ISIS.
      5. Start covertly financing the Kurdish Workers Party in Turkey.
      6. Introduce a visa regime.
      1. U-96
        U-96 24 November 2015 18: 53
        24 th
        Quote: arane
        1. Stop all economic relations, the ban on the import of all Turkish goods.
        2. Close a tourist relationship.
        3. Close the sky over Syria for Turkish combat aircraft (warn and shoot down)
        4. start supplying weapons (including air defense equipment) to the Kurds, recognize the Kurds as fighters with ISIS.
        5. Start covertly financing the Kurdish Workers Party in Turkey.


        Excuse me, you are talking nonsense. If everything is clear with the first two points, then the rest is nonsense.
        1. arane
          arane 24 November 2015 18: 58
          +3
          Quote: U-96
          Quote: arane
          1. Stop all economic relations, the ban on the import of all Turkish goods.
          2. Close a tourist relationship.
          3. Close the sky over Syria for Turkish combat aircraft (warn and shoot down)
          4. start supplying weapons (including air defense equipment) to the Kurds, recognize the Kurds as fighters with ISIS.
          5. Start covertly financing the Kurdish Workers Party in Turkey.


          Excuse me, you are talking nonsense. If everything is clear with the first two points, then the rest is nonsense.


          This is your personal opinion. Justify. Plus to you from me

          On the 5 point, of course he got excited, but otherwise ......
          1. vorobey
            vorobey 24 November 2015 19: 04
            +6
            Quote: arane
            This is your personal opinion.


            Gentlemen .. one point is enough ... to recall the ambassador ...
          2. U-96
            U-96 24 November 2015 19: 10
            0
            Quote: arane
            This is your personal opinion. ABOUT

            hmm ... You might think that your five points are the opinion of our Foreign Ministry.
            1. arane
              arane 24 November 2015 19: 14
              +4
              Quote: U-96
              Quote: arane
              This is your personal opinion. ABOUT

              hmm ... You might think that your five points are the opinion of our Foreign Ministry.


              No need to juggle. When I wrote, I wondered if you would write something like that. Wrote. hi
              This is also my personal opinion, and I did not pretend to include my post in the discussion of the UN Security Council.
              1. U-96
                U-96 24 November 2015 19: 23
                -3
                Quote: arane
                Do not distort.

                but I don’t distort. You wrote
                Quote: arane
                This is your personal opinion.

                Whose opinion do you think?
                Quote: arane
                do you write something like that.

                sorry, not a "hunter of nonsense" (c). Leisurely speculations, of course, are in great favor, but for the most part they are absolutely primitive. Yours including.
          3. U-96
            U-96 24 November 2015 19: 18
            +1
            Quote: arane

            On the 5 point, of course he got excited, but otherwise ...

            Not only.
            all these "sky closings" are, in essence, nonsense. What are the mechanisms for implementation? Willful decision of the Russian Federation? Isn't it funny yourself? About the supply of weapons to the Kurds - the PKK is only six years old since it jumped off the list of terrorist organizations. Nothing prevents, in view of the terrorist realities, to shove it back there. Or there are doubts about our "partners", eh?
            The fifth point, of course, gives away Soviet nostalgia. Even without comment.
            1. arane
              arane 24 November 2015 19: 26
              +2
              Quote: U-96
              Quote: arane

              On the 5 point, of course he got excited, but otherwise ...

              Not only.
              all these "sky closings" are, in essence, nonsense. What are the mechanisms for implementation? Willful decision of the Russian Federation? Isn't it funny yourself? About the supply of weapons to the Kurds - the PKK is only six years old since it jumped off the list of terrorist organizations. Nothing prevents, in view of the terrorist realities, to shove it back there. Or there are doubts about our "partners", eh?
              The fifth point, of course, gives away Soviet nostalgia. Even without comment.


              You communicate on the verge of havmstva, you are our expert. Syria should close the sky with the help of Russia. The grounds are the same on which the Turks shot down the plane.
              I already wrote to the PKK that I got excited. What is the problem?
              1. U-96
                U-96 24 November 2015 19: 49
                -1
                Quote: arane
                You communicate on the brink khavmstva

                even so? Take the trouble to indicate exactly where I am ... hmm ... fucked up.
                Quote: arane
                you are our expert.

                not yours and not an expert. But I’m guessing that you consider yourself to be such. Is there a reason for this?
                1. arane
                  arane 24 November 2015 20: 01
                  +2
                  Quote: U-96
                  Quote: arane
                  You communicate on the brink khavmstva

                  even so? Take the trouble to indicate exactly where I am ... hmm ... fucked up.
                  Quote: arane
                  you are our expert.

                  not yours and not an expert. But I’m guessing that you consider yourself to be such. Is there a reason for this?


                  I wrote "on the edge".
                  My HAVMANTIES of the same nature as your WAITING. I see no reason on your part to focus on this.
                  I am an expert. But not in this area. Now I'm just a forum member.
                  You are somehow angry ...
                  1. U-96
                    U-96 24 November 2015 20: 04
                    -1
                    Quote: arane
                    I am an expert.

                    oops ...
                    Quote: arane
                    But not in this area.

                    don’t intrigue ...
                    Quote: arane
                    Now I'm just a forum member.

                    and so similar to the expert-ah ... Judging by the comments ....
                  2. Boa kaa
                    Boa kaa 24 November 2015 22: 31
                    +2
                    Quote: arane
                    I am an expert. But not in this area.

                    Well, don’t weary ... "Gulchatay, open your face!" Tell us, you are an expert in the "cocoa" field. After all, the site moderators "wrongly" position you as a "visitor".
                    We urgently need to correct this "injustice"! laughing
            2. Asadullah
              Asadullah 24 November 2015 19: 29
              0
              On the supply of weapons to the Kurds, the PKK is only six years old, as it jumped off the list of territorial organizations. Nothing prevents in view of the terrorist realities shove it back there


              Baby talk. PKK no one will officially finance. It will be financed by the Kurdish diaspora. Or do you think this is a small bunch of Kurds abroad? And the official provision of autonomy to the Kurds in Syria opens the way for the supply of anything. Or do you also declare Kurdish autonomy in Syria terrorist?
              1. U-96
                U-96 24 November 2015 20: 00
                -1
                Quote: Asadullah
                And the official provision of autonomy to the Kurds in Syria

                what is it about? Has someone provided already? By the type of northern Iraq? Did I miss something?
                Quote: Asadullah
                PKK no one will officially finance. It will be financed by the Kurdish diaspora.

                Yes, her Kurdish flag in hand. After the PKK refused to create a state, no one really finances it, and there is no particular excitement either. Kurds interfere with everyone, and this is no secret. Iraqi Kurdistan is a creature of the Americans, not the "diaspora". Well, whose will is now blinding Syrian Kurdistan?
          4. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 24 November 2015 20: 55
            +4
            Quote: arane
            On the 5 point, of course he got excited, but otherwise ......

            Yes, not a fig got excited, dear! It has become a sign of a developed democracy in our world today to support "moderate opposition". So we will support. Open. Let the Kurds arrange such a thing for them there that they will not have time for scandals with us.
        2. Ze Kot
          Ze Kot 24 November 2015 19: 15
          0
          Quote: U-96
          Quote: arane
          1. Stop all economic relations, the ban on the import of all Turkish goods.
          2. Close a tourist relationship.
          3. Close the sky over Syria for Turkish combat aircraft (warn and shoot down)
          4. start supplying weapons (including air defense equipment) to the Kurds, recognize the Kurds as fighters with ISIS.
          5. Start covertly financing the Kurdish Workers Party in Turkey.


          Excuse me, you are talking nonsense. If everything is clear with the first two points, then the rest is nonsense.



          Yes, the Turks. But after the first point, all goods within Russia will go up in price. And if you do not fulfill commercial contracts, then this is a blow to the country's reputation. What will be reflected in the future.
          And the second point ... On the one hand, yes. But on the other - travel agencies will incur losses. Employees without s \ n will remain.
          The third item is 100%.
          1. arane
            arane 24 November 2015 19: 23
            +1
            Quote: The Cat
            Quote: U-96
            Quote: arane
            1. Stop all economic relations, the ban on the import of all Turkish goods.
            2. Close a tourist relationship.
            3. Close the sky over Syria for Turkish combat aircraft (warn and shoot down)
            4. start supplying weapons (including air defense equipment) to the Kurds, recognize the Kurds as fighters with ISIS.
            5. Start covertly financing the Kurdish Workers Party in Turkey.


            Excuse me, you are talking nonsense. If everything is clear with the first two points, then the rest is nonsense.



            Yes, the Turks. But after the first point, all goods within Russia will go up in price. And if you do not fulfill commercial contracts, then this is a blow to the country's reputation. What will be reflected in the future.
            And the second point ... On the one hand, yes. But on the other - travel agencies will incur losses. Employees without s \ n will remain.
            The third item is 100%.


            I agree. But based on this logic, it wasn’t bad for us to meddle not only in Syria, but better to go to the State Department for instructions. Then no sanctions, no crisis and everything is in chocolate.
            Zf everything has to be paid. For sovereignty too. No one will just give it to us.
            On the other hand, trade with Turkey is much more necessary for Turkey. We don’t get anything so important from them. The main direction is consumer goods, fruits and vegetables, leather goods. The only thing that will rise in price is tomatoes (for some reason there are not enough of them). The rest of the shaft of other manufacturers
        3. Asadullah
          Asadullah 24 November 2015 19: 20
          0
          Excuse me, you are talking nonsense. If everything is clear with the first two points, then the rest is nonsense.


          And where do you see the bullshit? These are the most painful corns of Turkey and the only ones that now have to be stepped on. Or what, start a war with Turkey? This is just the dream of the Anglo-Saxons to drag Russia into a war with the Islamic world, at least united by collusion between the Arab monarchies and the Turanian aristocracy. The soldiers are ready, the whole ISIS. These first two points are insignificant, you can’t even sneeze from them. If you're so smart, voice your bullshit ....
          1. U-96
            U-96 24 November 2015 19: 45
            0
            Quote: Asadullah
            voice your nonsense ....

            my "neerunda" is that I refrain from any idiotic forecasts and advice from the authorities. And I'm just waiting for her reactive actions. What the local couch generals offer, inflating their cheeks with a clever look, can be safely flushed down the toilet. AND
            Quote: Asadullah
            the most painful calluses
            everyone has without exception. Stomping on them is, of course, the highest diplomatic aerobatics, yes. No need to be assimilated to xoxlam. I hope that GDP will not disappoint us.
            1. Asadullah
              Asadullah 24 November 2015 19: 56
              +1
              What the local couch general offers, with a smart look, puffing out his cheeks, can be quietly flushed down the toilet. AND


              The local "sofa generals" express their thoughts, emotions, questions. Many of these thoughts came true exactly the same. And what is your mission? To puff up the importance of the cheek and declare everyone to be fools without the right to express the product of mental activity? Modestly pursing your lips and waiting for non-charm? Do you sell cement by any chance?
              1. U-96
                U-96 24 November 2015 20: 13
                -2
                Quote: Asadullah
                Do you happen to sell cement?

                Well, judging by your
                Quote: Asadullah
                Baby talk.
                Do you happen to babysit in a kindergarten with intensive teaching of diplomacy and geopolitics? And this is -
                Quote: Asadullah
                mental product
                generally diaper laughing
                1. arane
                  arane 24 November 2015 20: 46
                  +2
                  Quote: U-96
                  Quote: Asadullah
                  Do you happen to sell cement?

                  Well, judging by your
                  Quote: Asadullah
                  Baby talk.
                  Do you happen to babysit in a kindergarten with intensive teaching of diplomacy and geopolitics? And this is -
                  Quote: Asadullah
                  mental product
                  generally diaper laughing


                  People on the forum communicate, express their opinion. These opinions are often different. This is normal and interesting.
                  You probably need a personal forum where you will be alone. Read your comments and admire ......
                  You are right one and your opinion is standard ....
                  Do not be offended by us, orphans and fools
                  1. U-96
                    U-96 24 November 2015 20: 53
                    -3
                    Quote: arane
                    Do not be offended by us, orphans and fools

                    Yes, in fact, I’m not offended by you personally. Work on self-esteem.
            2. arane
              arane 24 November 2015 20: 09
              +1
              Quote: U-96
              Quote: Asadullah
              voice your nonsense ....

              my "neerunda" is that I refrain from any idiotic forecasts and advice from the authorities. And I'm just waiting for her reactive actions. What the local couch generals offer, inflating their cheeks with a clever look, can be safely flushed down the toilet. AND
              Quote: Asadullah
              the most painful calluses
              everyone has without exception. Stomping on them is, of course, the highest diplomatic aerobatics, yes. No need to be assimilated to xoxlam. I hope that GDP will not disappoint us.


              Hmm. I do not think that there are those on the forum who give advice to the authorities. Although, who knows ...
              And you refrain from this. Only one who can can abstain!
              1. U-96
                U-96 24 November 2015 20: 45
                -1
                Quote: arane
                Only one who can can abstain!
      2. Fat
        Fat 24 November 2015 19: 03
        +1
        clause 6 should be clause 1. and the straits can be expanded unnecessarily.
      3. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 24 November 2015 19: 53
        +2
        Quote: arane
        This is a test ball. If we do not answer, everyone will start kicking us.
        I do not propose starting a war with Turkey, but we can answer.
        1. Stop all economic relations, the ban on the import of all Turkish goods.
        2. Close a tourist relationship.
        3. Close the sky over Syria for Turkish combat aircraft (warn and shoot down)
        4. start supplying weapons (including air defense equipment) to the Kurds, recognize the Kurds as fighters with ISIS.
        5. Start covertly financing the Kurdish Workers Party in Turkey.
        6. Introduce a visa regime.

        Everything is correct, only p. 4 -
        start supplying weapons (including air defense equipment) to the Kurds, recognize the Kurds as fighters with ISIS.
        it is necessary to do as noisily as possible and, moreover, to recognize the Kurds as ISIS fighters is easy - they are already at war with them.

        A. p. 5
        Start covertly financing the Kurdish Workers Party in Turkey.
        - and why HIDDEN? Has America ever been shy about giving money "for the development of democracy" to anyone?

        I think there are people here who understand boxing, and therefore I will not explain why the happy owners of the left rack immediately fall into sadness when a left-hander is put up against them. That is why many years ago we in the army deliberately "broke the stance" so that we could adequately respond and break the template to any enemy. So here - they give us "on the sly" left, well, we give them a "bad" as well ...
    10. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith 24 November 2015 18: 53
      +3
      I think Israel will help the Russian Defense Ministry with intelligence regarding the Turkish Armed Forces.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 24 November 2015 20: 51
          +1
          Quote: Gros
          God-beating us can only push disu

          That's it. Hope for them ..... Desu or not desu - but the fact that our interests will be controlled by those who have fled from us - this alone suggests that there is no need to wait for cooperation. And, given the long-standing and mutually agreeable contacts of God's chosen ones with the United States, you will not only find help there, but you will not come to harm ... No, it would be better without them ...
      2. Asadullah
        Asadullah 24 November 2015 19: 31
        0
        I think Israel will help the Russian Defense Ministry with intelligence regarding the Turkish Armed Forces.


        And what can Israel offer there?
    11. Million
      Million 24 November 2015 19: 04
      +1
      The day before yesterday I wrote that the Turks are vile people. Today it was confirmed ...
    12. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 24 November 2015 19: 17
      +3
      Quote: Hubun
      And I remember with an urgent poster in the materiel of the barracks, still Soviet, with samples of the armament of a potential enemy. And there were the USA and Turkey for some reason

      And I still remember the flight time from the airfields of a potential enemy - 8 minutes. I remember from the same time and on the same posters.
    13. sergant1.1
      sergant1.1 24 November 2015 20: 24
      +1
      Solidarity. Friendship with the Turks is impossible, as the friendship of a man and a woman is postponed sex. (In our case, it is postponed a fight)
    14. kodxnumx
      kodxnumx 24 November 2015 20: 53
      +2
      Now, as soon as they understand that the smell is fried, I think the United States and NATO will throw the Turks! Are they fools or something, but the Turks need to be punished in full!
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 24 November 2015 21: 37
        +2
        Quote: kod3001
        Now, as soon as they understand that the smell is fried, I think the United States and NATO will throw the Turks! Are they fools or something, but the Turks need to be punished in full!

        Already the United States and NATO disowned (merged) Erdogan, saying that it was his personal initiative. The cruiser Moscow received an order to destroy everything that would pose a threat to us. Now all the bombers will fly with the cover of fighters.
    15. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 24 November 2015 22: 08
      0
      Quote: Hubun
      And there were the USA and Turkey for some reason

      Why were you? They are and will be enemies until we cover.
    16. The comment was deleted.
    17. win
      win 24 November 2015 22: 45
      +2
      Waiting for meanness from them


      According to the editor of the British television channel Sky News, having shot down a Russian bomber, Turkey was only in a very embarrassing situation diplomatically
    18. Drmadfisher
      Drmadfisher 25 November 2015 01: 38
      0
      In vain the article of cons was instructed, it is written correctly. Now penguins are making bricks hard (one ping is a brick factory)
  2. PQ-18
    PQ-18 24 November 2015 18: 35
    13
    REMAINED! laughing
    from a Turkish-national Adventurer Erdogan ... angry
    a kind of carte blanche of the Pentagon - GDP .. to "kill" presumptuous accomplices of world terror
    (It’s a shame for ourselves ... to recognize Erdogan as an accomplice of ISIS!)
    1. gjv
      gjv 24 November 2015 18: 45
      +4
      Quote: PQ-18
      yourself - SHAME

      Shameless - SHAME?
      Wagging Worms. They even piss into the eyes, even poke ...
    2. Altona
      Altona 24 November 2015 18: 46
      +9
      Quote: PQ-18
      REMAINED!
      from a Turkish-national Adventurer Erdogan ...

      -------------------------
      Mishiko was also pushed in the back and then disowned by his "strategic friends" from the US and NATO ...
  3. Ross_ulair
    Ross_ulair 24 November 2015 18: 36
    16
    I'm not me, and the horse is not mine.

    Salt the Turks in this incident. They will leave one on one with the Russian bear to understand.

    The main thing has been done with mattress - the countries in conflict, the Straits can be blocked for Russia, which means that the "moderate" are safe.

    And there at least a hundred Turkish F-16s land - they do not care, they do not consider servants for people
    1. iliitchitch
      iliitchitch 24 November 2015 18: 42
      +6
      Quote: ROSS_Ulair
      I'm not me, and the horse is not mine.

      Salt the Turks in this incident. They will leave one on one with the Russian bear to understand.

      The main thing has been done with mattress - the countries in conflict, the Straits can be blocked for Russia, which means that the "moderate" are safe.

      And there they’ll land a hundred F-16 Turkish landed - they don’t care, they don’t consider servants for people


      This is from which bolt block the straits? As far as I remember, we should notify about the passage of vessels, but certainly not ask for permission.
    2. gjv
      gjv 24 November 2015 18: 47
      +5
      Quote: ROSS_Ulair
      Straits may block for Russia

      Quote: iliitch
      we must notify the passage of vessels, but by no means ask for permission.

      Blocking the straits is unacceptable without an official declaration of war by Turkey.
      1. Ross_ulair
        Ross_ulair 24 November 2015 18: 50
        +5
        gjv, iliitchitch

        Your words to God in the ears. I really hope that the Montreux Convention will work in the current conflicting times. But vague doubts torment ...
        1. Fat
          Fat 24 November 2015 19: 05
          +3
          the Moscow cruiser expands the straits in two in one gulp.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. 3officer
        3officer 24 November 2015 19: 25
        +2
        Quote: gjv
        Quote: ROSS_Ulair
        Straits may block for Russia

        Quote: iliitch
        we must notify the passage of vessels, but by no means ask for permission.

        Blocking the straits is unacceptable without an official declaration of war by Turkey.


        But technically it’s easy for the Turks to do it. So we hope for international law.
      3. Asadullah
        Asadullah 24 November 2015 19: 34
        +1
        Blocking the straits is unacceptable without an official declaration of war by Turkey.


        So.
    3. Asadullah
      Asadullah 24 November 2015 19: 33
      +1
      Straits can block for Russia, which means the "moderates" are safe.


      This is already a war.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  4. Same lech
    Same lech 24 November 2015 18: 36
    +6
    The Pentagon's answer is more like trying to justify itself.


    This confirms the version that our plane was shot down over the territory of SYRIA ... and if the death of our pilots from the fire of a moderate terrorist opposition is confirmed, then the Turks can be heavily charged.
    In general, ERDOGAN needs to pray that his stupidity is not expensive for TURKEY.
    1. dr. sem
      dr. sem 24 November 2015 19: 11
      +1
      WILL NOT ALREADY PREPARE ...
  5. The comment was deleted.
    1. Monos
      Monos 24 November 2015 18: 42
      +8
      Sorry this comment will be deleted. And the declaration is good.
      Join.
  6. arnulla
    arnulla 24 November 2015 18: 36
    11
    So you need to herat Turkish fighter over Syria. America will not fit for them
    1. Asadullah
      Asadullah 24 November 2015 19: 36
      +2
      So you need to herat Turkish fighter over Syria


      It is necessary. Only not over Syria, but over Iraq. The hands of the Kurds.
  7. serg1970
    serg1970 24 November 2015 18: 37
    10
    The United States in its repertoire - "I'm not me - not mine," - as in all operations "under a false flag" ... But the ears stick out !!!

    Erdogan is a complete Klubodok. I hope this whole story will be the beginning of his end and the end of his dreams of the New Ottoman Empire under his leadership.
  8. izya top
    izya top 24 November 2015 18: 38
    13
    you see, the pentagon did it all by itself. now the whole world froze in fear and anticipation ... well, except for skakels, of course, for those peermogs, pah
  9. Egoza
    Egoza 24 November 2015 18: 38
    +5
    The European Commission (EC) has approved the allocation of 3 billion euros to Turkey to fight the migration crisis. This is stated in the EC statement circulated in Brussels. "The total amount of funds for Turkey is 3 billion euros. The funds will begin to be provided from January 1, 2016," the document says.

    Source: http://politikus.ru/events/63743-oplacheno-evrokomissiya-odobrila-vydelenie-3-ml
    rd-evro-turcii-na-reshenie-migracionnogo-krizisa.html
    Politikus.ru

    that's where you start. "Everything is paid for" It is inconvenient for them to actively oppose to oppose, so the mercenary was found.
  10. Xocelolprox
    Xocelolprox 24 November 2015 18: 38
    15
    You are driven by the United States. I am more than sure that the United States really had no direct relation to this (which of course does not exclude the indirect). Erdogan is a nationalist who is on his own mind and who has already gone too far. NATO doesn’t have anything to do with what is happening here, for a downed plane is already a de facto declaration of war, which means that Article 5 doesn’t work with it, because Turkey is an aggressor. And even if she worked, would many harness for the distraught mustachioed idiot?
    1. Oleg14774
      Oleg14774 24 November 2015 18: 47
      10
      Quote: Xocelolprox
      Erdogan is a nationalist who is on his own mind and who has already gone too much

      Somewhere in the comments there was infa that his son had not sour grandmothers on contraband oil. So this is personal! And his nationalism is just a show. Mercantile and dirty bitch son!
      1. Asadullah
        Asadullah 24 November 2015 19: 38
        0
        Mercantile and dirty bitch son!


        Yeah. There is the ideologist of everything, the one who is Davutoglu. Damn, well, the company .....
    2. serg1970
      serg1970 24 November 2015 18: 50
      +2
      You may be right about the USA's innocence in this provocation, but this "EDUCATION" is used to protecting "its" children and will now begin to dodge, like in a frying pan, in order to shield Erdogan, hoping for the usual power of influence on the brain of the average person in its media ...
      1. Xocelolprox
        Xocelolprox 24 November 2015 18: 58
        +3
        Well, Erdogan is not so his own for the State Department. No one will cry for sure there. The United States likes people who are easy to manage and carry out any order, which certainly cannot be said about Erdogan. They have been on the counter since his last presidential term. Of course, they use it from time to time for the transit of weapons and terrorists to the places of military operations, but any other person who, in addition to the foregoing, will also be much more accommodating, can also do this successfully.
    3. Fat
      Fat 24 November 2015 19: 08
      0
      yes you can. is it possible without ov. how is it impossible. but didn’t they make it. their fashions are there. Recently surpassed to gain air superiority
  11. Comrade Bender
    Comrade Bender 24 November 2015 18: 38
    +7
    NATE would now be wiser to distance themselves from Turkey if they did not want to be publicly involved in supporting the terrorists.
    1. Canep
      Canep 24 November 2015 18: 48
      +1
      I do not think that NATO will merge Turkey, although who knows.
    2. Xocelolprox
      Xocelolprox 24 November 2015 19: 02
      +4
      Yes, NATO all the same, having at their disposal the entire Western information resource, they will turn any situation in the direction they need. But of course they will want to distance themselves from Erdogan, if only in order to get away from the fire in the event of hostilities between the Russian Federation and Turkey (after all, in this situation, no media will help you).
  12. Taygerus
    Taygerus 24 November 2015 18: 39
    +1
    They jump off, just like not the coalition, their whole nature is selfish, that some have it and others will definitely not let them sleep calmly after their deed
  13. Mario_boo
    Mario_boo 24 November 2015 18: 39
    +5
    I hope the reaction of Russia will be adequate!
  14. wandlitz
    wandlitz 24 November 2015 18: 39
    +4
    Well, apparently we need to act on the principle - an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
    1. kil 31
      kil 31 24 November 2015 18: 54
      +2
      Quote: wandlitz
      Well, apparently we need to act on the principle - an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
      It will be so. For a long time, our sharpness is not shown. I can advise them how to make it milder so that everyone would condemn Turkey and there will be no more 100% incidents. With the entire world community to say, we are leaving the peace treaty between Turkey and the Russian Federation. World alliance relations between world countries and Turkey will be borne in mind. If Turkey still zakosachat then what we have will introduce not only Turkey.
  15. Monos
    Monos 24 November 2015 18: 40
    +6
    They analyze ... Well, well. But they also have Qatar, Saudis, and the United Arab Emirates in the kaolitic. The cheerful little campaign has stolen up. America! They will merge you! Akela missed!
  16. combat66
    combat66 24 November 2015 18: 40
    +7
    I don’t feel like fighting, but they are forcing scum.
    And the first, for distribution, as usual, the weakest on the head - Turks, Poles, Balts and forelocks ... Just members of one circle, de-bills!
    1. Loner_53
      Loner_53 24 November 2015 18: 44
      0
      Quote: combat66
      I don’t feel like fighting, but they are forcing scum.


      There will be no war, the situation will be like with the Kursk, in any case, the turkofesques will be bad
      1. Wolka
        Wolka 25 November 2015 06: 11
        0
        Do you know how the incident with Kursk ended ???
    2. dmikras
      dmikras 24 November 2015 18: 56
      +1
      Rather, one member circles
  17. 3axap82
    3axap82 24 November 2015 18: 41
    +3
    Everyone is afraid of both ours and NATO. They do not want to inhale nuclear ashes. And so close it became ...
  18. gjv
    gjv 24 November 2015 18: 41
    +4
    Nothing has changed ... Twisting bastards!
    How will Putin respond real and weighty?
    It would be bad to calibrate the ISIS fighters training base in Turkey with calibers ?!
    Tor-M2 to every Kurdish village!
  19. Geo73
    Geo73 24 November 2015 18: 41
    +2
    It remains only to ask God to save the world. We are actually at war with a powerful military bloc, and how will this end?
  20. morpogr
    morpogr 24 November 2015 18: 42
    +5
    Yes, the Anglo-Saxons are masters of evading responsibility, and the Turks did not understand that they had been bred. Surely when this was planned, the mattresses promised support, and now they didn’t happen in a coalition in bushes like that, they were on their own at that time, and as we agreed with Russia, we observe everything.
  21. lexx2038
    lexx2038 24 November 2015 18: 43
    +2
    I understand that Americans do not mind if we drop a bomb on a Turkish airfield?
  22. corporal
    corporal 24 November 2015 18: 44
    +2
    Blood feud, or understand and forgive?
    I did not understand from the statement of the Supreme.
    1. Loner_53
      Loner_53 24 November 2015 18: 52
      +1
      Quote: Corporal
      Blood feud, or understand and forgive?
      I did not understand from the statement of the Supreme.

      Rather second sadBut others will now press their tails, GDP has patience not infinitely.
  23. Prisoner
    Prisoner 24 November 2015 18: 44
    +6
    Either there will be an answer and the answer is tough (preferably cruel) or after the Turks, someone else will want to kill others insolently. To paint our fighters under the Syrian and bring down everything that flies from the Turkish side. For not figs!
    1. Oldwiser
      Oldwiser 24 November 2015 19: 17
      +3
      Mironov and Zhirinovsky - to invite the leadership of the Kurdish Workers Party to Moscow and express "moral support for the just cause of the national liberation movement of the Kurdish people - the second (after the Russians) large divided people in the world"
  24. Wedmak
    Wedmak 24 November 2015 18: 45
    0
    Well, of course not in business, who would doubt it. They just sent an SMS to the Turks, a short "everything is ok, do it."
  25. skylare
    skylare 24 November 2015 18: 45
    +5
    To me alone, does our present time remind me of the first half of the forty-first year? I'm afraid the order will not follow: "Do not respond to provocations."
  26. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 24 November 2015 18: 46
    +2
    The Turks surprised the US dasha. What are the Turks counting on? Our border is long, airplanes can fall everywhere.
  27. Mihalich17
    Mihalich17 24 November 2015 18: 46
    +2
    To clean up the area where the PAPA bomb is shot down!
    To equalize the Turkish border to zero !!!
  28. Junior, I
    Junior, I 24 November 2015 18: 48
    +2
    And what brought down?
    It's time to include our umbrella at full power with the suppression of all frequencies and over the Turks, too.
    Make a no-fly zone.
  29. Clueless
    Clueless 24 November 2015 18: 48
    +4
    Quote: Geo73
    It remains only to ask God to save the world. We are actually at war with a powerful military bloc, and how will this end?


    Yes, it’s already used to fighting over its history. Well, almost the whole world will be in ruins, we will survive and heal again - not for the first time we will restore the country after the war.

    Although a bad peace is certainly better than war in this case.

    And I would probably remove the mighty word in relation to NATO, the bloc is too heterogeneous if the United States is knocked out by the first blow, the rest will be quickly turned on.
  30. katalonec2014
    katalonec2014 24 November 2015 18: 48
    +4
    Erdogan has to pay.
  31. GDV
    GDV 24 November 2015 18: 48
    +8
    Now the most important thing is to stop and correctly calculate everything, so that we could take our people out of Turkey and withdraw the capital, and then we will figure out how to pull the rubber technical product onto the globe.
  32. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 24 November 2015 18: 49
    +1
    It’s a pity that these F-16s flew off the battlefield, otherwise they would send a chase after each of them in the hollow of a rocket! Find them ... and hang with Erdogan on the hook.
  33. Dr dron
    Dr dron 24 November 2015 18: 51
    0
    Burn this place with a nuclear strike, so that for centuries the Turks inhaled the ashes of radioactive ashes! And the wild tribes were afraid even to look towards our pilots!
    1. The comment was deleted.
  34. Boricello
    Boricello 24 November 2015 18: 51
    0
    Quote: lexx2038
    I understand that Americans do not mind if we drop a bomb on a Turkish airfield?

    And this is aggression against a NATO member. In general, it is not regrettable but nothing will happen. They will talk a lot. Shake the air with loud statements. But they can’t do anything. GDP just revealingly clicked on the nose. And it is impossible not to answer, and it will not work out clearly.
    1. combat66
      combat66 24 November 2015 19: 06
      +1
      Not a fact, it can even fly to the Turks.
      NATO member attacked and shot down .....! And this is an act of aggression by a member of NATO! So, I don’t know how for US, but for the Turks, the death of people and the plane just does not work. The very first problem is that there are now thousands of our hostages! The fact that the freaks will arrive I have no doubt, but not tomorrow. You need to think about people.
    2. Consul-t
      Consul-t 24 November 2015 19: 19
      +3
      The most amazing thing is that ours after all will not stop traveling to Turkey on vacation.
      But if everyone refused at once, then they would feel.
      Only we are divided and do not stand for each other.
      It's a pity...
    3. Dry_T-50
      Dry_T-50 24 November 2015 20: 05
      +1
      Quote: Boricello
      And this will be an aggression on a NATO member.

      In fact, this is a member of NATO committed aggression. And in such cases, the 5-i article of the NATO Charter does not work
  35. Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 24 November 2015 18: 52
    +8
    Ararat to the Armenians, Cyprus to the Greeks, Kurds of Kurdistan.
  36. dmitrymb
    dmitrymb 24 November 2015 18: 52
    +5
    Erdogan --- TERRORIST !!!
  37. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 24 November 2015 18: 57
    +7
    The Turks only need to remember that according to the Turkish constitution, President Erdogan is nobody, and there is no way to call him. He did not have time to "pull" the constitution for himself. Well, now it won't be in time. They want to live, the arrows will be transferred to him, and he will have what he deserves.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 24 November 2015 23: 12
      0
      There, Prime Minister Davutoglu is his faithful younger associate. Therefore, de facto Erdogan is the most important there. In addition, he is the first popularly elected president.
  38. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 24 November 2015 18: 59
    +1
    The reaction of Russia must be made in many directions! Of course, declare a no-fly zone on the border with Turkey, destroy all planes crossing the Syrian border, impose sanctions, organize an international tribunal, an anti-terrorist operation in the border zone. Tell the bandits who shot our pilots.
  39. Stinger
    Stinger 24 November 2015 18: 59
    0
    The logic of the Pentagon is clear. It is always designed for Anchuria. Exceptional everyone understands. What will the sophisticated logic of enlightened Europe betray? In addition, Russia has surrounded NATO and wants to take away sprats.
  40. 1536
    1536 24 November 2015 19: 00
    0
    I’m thinking how can you go on vacation to a country that shot down your country's planes? Let the Germans go there to Turkey. You won’t spoil them.
    But there are those who shout that this is business and nothing personal, that the people of Turkey are not to blame and nothing to do with it. The fact that the Turkish people have nothing to do with it is understandable. Only this people chooses to itself the rulers of murderers and announcers, ready for any crime.
  41. GDV
    GDV 24 November 2015 19: 01
    +3
    I think we need to support our friends, fighters for the independence of free Kurdistan, who are fighting for their independence and against the manifestations of world terrorism.
  42. sabakina
    sabakina 24 November 2015 19: 01
    +1
    The Pentagon and its logic: Turkey is in the American coalition, but when the Russian plane was shot down, it was not considered in the American coalition ...

    I was afraid of this answer from the Pentagon ... it remains to "see":
    Or merge ...
    Or are they tired of living ...
    I’ll insert a video for those who do not understand, Silvio personifies Russia... The plot is somewhat reminiscent of today.
  43. Jackking
    Jackking 24 November 2015 19: 04
    +2
    drop off the landing, squeeze the bosphorus
  44. tinibar
    tinibar 24 November 2015 19: 07
    +1
    Quote: Hubun
    From time immemorial, the Turks of Russia have been dirty, well, I do not believe in friendship with them. Waited for meanness from them and waited, unfortunately. And I remember with an urgent poster in the materiel of the barracks, still Soviet, with samples of the armament of a potential enemy. And there were the USA and Turkey for some reason

    And how many wars did "world imperialism" wage with Russia by the hands of Turkey? Long live our allies - the ARMY and the NAVY!
  45. dr. sem
    dr. sem 24 November 2015 19: 07
    0
    Clearly there was a white day that the SSA and NATO would disown DE BIL ERDOGASHKA ... BUT WHAT NEXT?
  46. Thompson
    Thompson 24 November 2015 19: 09
    +1
    Quote: Boricello
    Quote: lexx2038
    I understand that Americans do not mind if we drop a bomb on a Turkish airfield?

    And this is aggression against a NATO member. In general, it is not regrettable but nothing will happen. They will talk a lot. Shake the air with loud statements. But they can’t do anything. GDP just revealingly clicked on the nose. And it is impossible not to answer, and it will not work out clearly.

    And the downing of the plane is not NATO aggression?
    Let's see ... Is there enough spirit for Putin to give the Turks their teeth.
    especially for a long time me infuriates them
  47. tyras85
    tyras85 24 November 2015 19: 09
    0
    To talk a lot and so to write "this topic" is humiliating. NATO should KNOW, for their jackals, they are all (NATO)
    in the ANSWER. And it is INERVATIVE. Enough of the fool to "turn on"!
  48. atamankko
    atamankko 24 November 2015 19: 10
    0
    The vile Turkish policy will still be punished,
    sorry for our guys and their relatives
  49. Delph
    Delph 24 November 2015 19: 12
    +1
    There is an opinion that in the near future someone will have a point with a negative angle on "E" . and so, I dare to assume that for this blow from the sly, our President will answer with all his, having to be, harshness. Let the maternal tears of the killed None of the guys come around !!!!
  50. Junior, I
    Junior, I 24 November 2015 19: 13
    +1
    Well, with gas, they have already flown 100%!
    They shot themselves in the head!
    1. iouris
      iouris 24 November 2015 19: 32
      +2
      Talking about gas in connection with this brutal murder of Russian pilots is the height of cynicism.
      The Turkish leadership openly sided with those who blew up a passenger plane and terrorized the population of NATO countries.
      By the way, I admit that this incident will not be reflected in the gas project, and already tomorrow thousands of fellow citizens will fly to Turkey, invest petrodollars in ISIS logistics.