Military Review

The last flight of the Buran

149
When the Soviet reusable Buran spacecraft touched the runway near the Baikonur cosmodrome, there was no limit to the jubilation of the MCC staff. It's no joke to say: the flight of the first Soviet "shuttle" was watched all over the world. Tension was beyond, and one hundred percent guarantee of success, as is always the case when it comes to space, no one could give.


The last flight of the Buran


15 November 1988 of the year the Soviet drone "Buran", overcoming gravity and going into a given orbit, made two circles around the Earth in 3 hours. 25 minutes, then calmly landed exactly at the specified place, deviating from the specified trajectory of everything ... on 5 m . Truly filigree work included in history space exploration as a true triumph of domestic science and technology! Unfortunately, the first flight of the Buran turned out to be the last.

... The idea to create a reusable spacecraft excited the minds of scientists at the dawn of cosmonautics. So, in June 1960 of the year, long before the first manned flight into space, a meeting of the Politburo was held, at which it was decided to begin work on creating spacecraft for orbital flights around the Earth with a landing at a given aerodrome.

The development of such devices engaged in the two leading design bureau of the Soviet aviation industry: Mikoyan and Tupolev. And in 1966, the specialists of the Gromov Flight Research Institute joined the work. As a result, by the middle of the 1970-ies, an experimental model of a manned orbital plane, called the "Spiral", was created. It is known that this predecessor of the Buran 10 t weighed, could accommodate a crew of two people and very successfully passed the necessary flight test program.

It is also known that around the same time in the Soviet Union a reusable aerospace system (MAKS) was created. Starting from the An-225 carrier aircraft, an orbital plane could deliver two cosmonauts and a payload of up to 8 tonnes to a near-earth orbit. A two-stage light-weight rocket “ Burlak. The rocket weighed no more than 1000 t and could launch into outer space from a Tu-30 aircraft carrier.


Experimental orbital plane, created by the program "Spiral"

So, work on creating a reusable spacecraft in our country has been going on for a long time and very successfully. However, despite the obvious achievements, reusable spacecraft in the USSR did not launch into mass production for a long time. The reason for this was the fundamental differences among the leading designers of space technology. Not everyone considered the development of “shuttles” expedient. Among the principal opponents of reusable spacecraft belonged, for example, the chief designer of the OKB-1, Sergey Korolev.

He considered the most promising in those conditions, the accelerated development of rocket production - even to the detriment of other space programs. And they had their reasons, because at the end of 1950-x - the beginning of 1960-s, the forced development of powerful launch vehicles dictated military necessity: we needed reliable means of delivering nuclear weapons. And Korolev and his comrades brilliantly fulfilled this task. Thus, the country's leadership was able to solve two strategic problems at once: to begin exploring space and ensure nuclear parity with the United States.
And later, in the 1970-s, the development of the national astronautics, obviously, went according to the thumbnail. It was easier to improve the existing equipment than to undertake radically new projects, the outcome of which was impossible to predict.

And yet in the middle of 1970-x at the highest level, they again returned to the idea of ​​reusable spacecraft. For the development of the Soviet serial "shuttle" in the 1976 year was established NPO "Lightning". It includes the design office of the same name, which has already been engaged in the creation of reusable space systems, as well as the Tushinsky Machine-Building Plant and the Experimental Plant in the city of Zhukovsky. The union was led by Gleb Lozino-Lozinsky, who by that time had vast experience in designing reusable spacecraft.



The result of a decade-long work of Lozino-Lozinsky and his team was the retired orbital cruise ship Buran, or the product 11Ф35, according to secret terminology of those years. The “product” was intended for launching into orbit of various space objects and their maintenance, for returning malfunctioning or outdated satellites to Earth, as well as performing other passenger-and-freight services along the Earth-to-space-to-Earth route.

In order to launch the Buran into orbit, a universal two-stage launch vehicle, Energia, was developed. The power of its engines is such that the rocket, together with the Buran, reaches an 150-kilometer altitude in less than eight minutes. After that, both stages of the launch vehicle are successively separated, and the engines of the space shuttle itself start automatically. As a result, “Buran” in a few minutes rises another 100 km and enters a given orbit. During the first flight, the maximum height of the shuttle orbit was 260 km. However, this is not the limit. The design features of Buran are such that they allow 27 tons of cargo to be raised to a height of up to 450 km.

In just ten years, under the program "Energy-Buran" three reusable spacecraft were built, as well as nine technological dummies in various configurations for conducting various tests. Two more ships, laid down at the Tushino Machine-Building Plant, were never completed.

However, the next round of interest in reusable space systems again did not lead to tangible results. Just at that time, the Space Shuttle program was actively developed in the United States, and free competition with the Soviet Buran was not part of American plans. That is why the Yankees made unprecedented efforts in order not only to force the Russians to curtail their work in this area, but also to discredit the entire Soviet space program altogether.


"Buran" at the launch site. Albert Pushkarev / TASS photo chronicle

Through their agents of influence, the Americans, beginning in the middle of the 1980s, began to forcefully place in Soviet society views on space as the main brake on the country's socio-economic development. Say, why do we even fly into space, and even more so expensive projects like Buran, if the stores do not have enough sausage? And such “arguments”, unfortunately, worked. A timid explanation of scientists about the importance of basic space research, which already brought a huge economic effect, drowned in the general flow of "anti-cosmic" psychosis. It is not surprising that under conditions when even the obvious achievements of Soviet power (and space belongs to them) in the era of “Gorbachev perestroika” were perceived as a burping of the totalitarian regime, the Energy-Buran project had opponents of the highest political caliber.

Moreover, those who were obliged to defend the interests of the national astronautics suddenly began talking about the uselessness of the Buran. The arguments that Roskosmos officials brought were as follows. Say, the United States already has its own Shuttles. And we are friends with the Americans. Why do we need our own “Buran” when we can fly with our American colleagues on the Shuttle? The logic is amazing. If you follow it, it turns out this way: why do we need our own auto industry when the Americans have Ford and General Motors? Or why do we need our own airplanes, if Boeings are manufactured in the USA? However, the “argument” turned out to be reinforced concrete: at the beginning of 1990's, all work on the Energy-Buran project was abandoned. We voluntarily ceded leadership to the United States ...


Gleb Evgenievich Lozino-Lozinsky in his study

The fate of the already built "Buranov" was sad. Two of them were practically rotted at Baikonur, the unfinished shuttles and test samples were either sold cheaply for the cordon, or they were taken apart by parts. And only one “Buran” (011 number) was lucky: for a long time it was used almost for its intended purpose. October 22 1995, an outstanding creation of Russian engineering thought, was towed to the Gorky Park of Culture and Leisure in Moscow and opened a unique attraction there. Anyone wishing to pay for the entrance ticket could experience the full illusion of space flight, including artificially created weightlessness.

The dream of the ideologists of “perestroika” and reformers of the Gaidar spill came true: the cosmos began to bring commercial income ...
Author:
Originator:
http://историк.рф/special_posts/последний-полёт-бурана/
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  1. Ruslan
    Ruslan 21 November 2015 06: 23 New
    +2
    inertia of the mind. it is unfortunate that they did not overcome the rocket lobby. could greatly reduce the dependence on spaceports. maybe it wasn’t even necessary to build an eastern one, if max and burlak were in the series. maybe their time will come.
    by the way, I once read that Lozinsky himself was against blind copying of the shuttles and offered a more perfect version, but the main ones decided to stupidly copy.
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 06: 50 New
      -7
      And what exactly was copied there?

      half of the article is turbidity, like recent ones about reactive submarines (in their entirety) and hypersonic Concorde, which is perverted.
      apparently someone became completely bored.
      1. Secta haki
        Secta haki 21 November 2015 08: 25 New
        -4
        minusers: can the color of materials be? Or a delta wing? wassat

        or it was necessary to make the huge doors of the "bomb bay" carriers and open them down?
        And make yourself a triplane (but in no case paint it red) to get away from the "similarity"?
        1. Secta haki
          Secta haki 21 November 2015 08: 40 New
          -16
          still minusers: I can’t help anything ... try to apply for the green card, there you will be accepted into the scouts laughing
          1. Secta haki
            Secta haki 21 November 2015 20: 06 New
            -5
            and also to the minusers: are you already there and are you well there?

            to the rest, maybe then in Arabic it will come? laughing
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdnEx13C904
      2. atalef
        atalef 21 November 2015 10: 19 New
        +5
        Quote: SectaHaki
        And what exactly was copied there?

        You know, on our site there is (already a marshall) VCs officer (who finished Mozhaika) belay laughing ) BAIKONUR
        The strange fact is that he NEVER visits and does not comment on any topic related to space and space forces in particular.
        BAIKONUR !!!
        Reply !!!
        Enlighten the people on the topic
        1. Secta haki
          Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 26 New
          -14
          "Marshall VKS", etc.? yes

          ...clinic...
          1. atalef
            atalef 21 November 2015 10: 29 New
            +3
            Quote: SectaHaki
            "Marshall VKS", etc.? yes

            ...clinic...

            Marshal VO (he positions himself as a major VKS)
            real laughing
            1. Secta haki
              Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 30 New
              -13
              + gateway ... tell us more about your familiar
              1. atalef
                atalef 21 November 2015 10: 50 New
                +7
                Quote: SectaHaki
                + gateway ... tell us more about your familiar

                There are a lot of couch generals, experts (fluffy after getting back from school), and of course a group of powerful loud URYAYAYA, shouting down another group of glorifying technicians who have no analogues in the world, backed up by statements by the economic bloc of commentators (like the Russians never lived so well, and after tomorrow morning the dollar will die - they will live even better)
                In general, the most interesting of all the forums (in my opinion) is from the ones I know.
                1. Secta haki
                  Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 55 New
                  -5
                  tell me more ... bully

                  And "Professor" hde? Is everything okay with him?
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 21 November 2015 11: 09 New
                    +2
                    Quote: SectaHaki
                    tell me more ... bully

                    And "Professor" hde? Is everything okay with him?

                    don't worry, I hope this is not something that keeps you awake.
                    1. Secta haki
                      Secta haki 21 November 2015 11: 16 New
                      0
                      ... and why? wassat
                      1. Baikonur
                        Baikonur 21 November 2015 12: 14 New
                        21
                        Through their agents of influence, the Americans, beginning in the mid-1980s, began to intensely instill in Soviet society views on outer space as the main brake on the country's socio-economic development ... those who, on duty, suddenly started talking about the futility of the Buran obliged to defend the interests of the national cosmonautics ... why do we need our own auto industry when the Americans have Ford and General Motors? Or why do we need our own aircraft if Boeings are launched in the USA? However, the “argument” turned out to be reinforced concrete: in the early 1990s, all work on the Energy-Buran project was curtailed. We voluntarily ceded US leadership ...

                        This is the second part of the program of assassination of the Energia-Buran program! The first one is banal - by that time the state has run out of money! And the brain is Humpbacked!
                      2. Simon
                        Simon 21 November 2015 17: 35 New
                        10
                        Humpbacked, with his moronic perestroika, destroyed the entire space economy, you bastard.
                      3. Alex
                        Alex 22 November 2015 12: 16 New
                        +5
                        Quote: Simon
                        Humpbacked, with his moronic perestroika, destroyed the entire space economy, you bastard.

                        If only this ... He let the whole country go under the knife, and now he is hanging around in Europe.
                    2. saturn.mmm
                      saturn.mmm 21 November 2015 19: 12 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Baikonur
                      This is the second part of the program of assassination of the Energia-Buran program! The first one is banal - by that time the state has run out of money! And the brain is Humpbacked!

                      Tell me at least about the weather in Baikonur, and that about space is generally not clear.
                2. SOB
                  SOB 21 November 2015 15: 28 New
                  +1
                  Experiencing for bro?
            2. Kuzyakin15
              Kuzyakin15 21 November 2015 20: 36 New
              -2
              Quote: atalef
              Quote: SectaHaki
              + gateway ... tell us more about your familiar

              There are a lot of couch generals, experts (fluffy after getting back from school), and of course a group of powerful loud URYAYAYA, shouting down another group of glorifying technicians who have no analogues in the world, backed up by statements by the economic bloc of commentators (like the Russians never lived so well, and after tomorrow morning the dollar will die - they will live even better)
              In general, the most interesting of all the forums (in my opinion) is from the ones I know.

              GOOD ALEXANDER !!! GOOD, oh all three groups! 100 +++ ....
            3. Felix1
              Felix1 22 November 2015 11: 42 New
              -2
              A very clear description of the inhabitants of VO. LATERAL !!!!
      3. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 21 November 2015 18: 51 New
        -2
        Quote: SectaHaki
        ...clinic...

        What clinic, he just considers shoulder straps, is busy.
    2. Mikhail m
      Mikhail m 21 November 2015 18: 32 New
      17
      Excuse me, uncle. I’ll try to puff out for the VKS officer, although in my time a mozhayka graduated from the Strategic Missile Forces officers.
      The Buran, as well as the Shuttle, becomes profitable with a sufficiently large cargo turnover of earth-space-earth. At this stage in the development of astronautics, the volume of profitability has not been achieved. In this connection, the program is economically disadvantageous. I do not presume to talk about the military capabilities of the complex, but, apparently, they also do not reach the level of profitability. To revive the project in the current conditions when economic relations between the republics of the former USSR are broken (the same notorious Ukraine) is fraught with overwhelming costs.
      There is hope that thought cannot be killed, and the exploration of the moon will lead to the revival of the project at a new technological level. No one has canceled the development spiral.
      Respectfully, an officer who graduated from PWVCU, who has the honor to serve in Baikonur.
      1. AVESSALOM
        AVESSALOM 22 November 2015 12: 46 New
        +1
        You are absolutely right. Well, that was exactly what the intensive flight plan was planned for. And the disaster happened.
  2. vladimir_krm
    vladimir_krm 21 November 2015 12: 53 New
    +4
    Yeah. Firstly, Korolev once dreamed about rocket planes, and objected only situationally: since they were forced to follow in the footsteps of the FAA (it was faster, but the loaf was needed urgently) and gained groundwork, it was unreasonable to drop all this.

    Secondly, Lozino-Lozinsky himself was against copying the shuttles, despite a direct order from the authorities "shob bulo like theirs." Buran looks like a shuttle only externally: one has a tank hanging nearby, and its engines, the other has a rocket. And according to rumors, L-L was simultaneously developing something completely different, believing that a pepelats with Buran's parameters would be unclaimed. He was right.

    Well, etc. The information value in the article will not be enough ...
  3. AVESSALOM
    AVESSALOM 22 November 2015 12: 42 New
    +2
    Get a salary in the Ministry of Education and Uzbeks ...
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 22 November 2015 13: 20 New
      -2
      no, I will use it when you teach "Buran" to start from the back of the An-225 ...

      Quote: AVESSALOM
      This is especially true in the "Mriya" - "Buran" combination. Start from a vehicle taking off from any airfield ..
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 22 November 2015 16: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: AVESSALOM
      uzbogsya ...

      And that expression is Babayan! Where are you from?
  • avt
    avt 21 November 2015 10: 02 New
    +2
    Quote: ruslan
    , I once read that Lozinsky himself was against blind copying of the shuttles and offered a more perfect version, but the main ones decided to stupidly copy.

    Quote: SectaHaki
    And what exactly was copied there?

    This is a natural question. Or maybe no less stupidly knock on the keyboard and see what they could not put into orbit before launching the Buran into orbit and on what? And then compare it with the US Shuttle? I’m not talking about "getting inside" the machines. If you don’t see the difference then - byada-ah. wassat
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 16 New
      -10
      Well, knock and write here, since this ...
      1. avt
        avt 21 November 2015 10: 39 New
        +4
        Quote: SectaHaki
        Well, knock and write here, since this ...

        Do not boil with your brain, but read the entire post as a whole and think to whom I am addressing through your question.
        Quote: atalef
        You know, we have on our site (

        Ascetic is still quite in the know.
        1. Secta haki
          Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 50 New
          -2
          he had no question ...
        2. atalef
          atalef 21 November 2015 10: 58 New
          0
          Quote: avt
          Ascetic is still quite in the know.

          Yes, I know, but I would like to hear (at least once) BAIKONUR laughing
    2. Mikhail m
      Mikhail m 21 November 2015 18: 55 New
      +8
      What really is about the insider. Compare at least appearance. The shuttle uses its engines to put into orbit, Buran turns on the engines after putting into orbit. The Shuttle and Buran orbital maneuvers simply differ by an order of magnitude in favor of the latter. The shuttle requires the presence of a crew upon landing; the Buran is completely autonomous. RKK Energy can remove any load, not just Buran. The shuttle can't do this.
      So, avt, keep stupidly banging on the clave.
  • Svetoch
    Svetoch 21 November 2015 10: 05 New
    +4
    Quote: ruslan
    but the main ones decided to stupidly copy.

    You are mistaken here. The differences both in the launch vehicle and in the descent vehicle itself, are quite strong. The glider is similar as all planes are similar. It is this form of glider that is suitable for the delivery of overall cargo. People think before you speak.
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 23 New
      -13
      Who told you that these are people? They just learned to speak ... and they write here.
  • Cat man null
    Cat man null 21 November 2015 10: 05 New
    +5
    Quote: ruslan
    by the way, I read it somehow

    A strong argument .. on the fence, probably .. laughing

    Buran was not a "copy" of the Shuttle. Completely different vehicles, let us remember that the Shuttle has never flown without a crew. Maybe he just could? wink

    Quote: ruslan
    could greatly reduce the dependence on spaceports

    This is with no fright? The energy to launch the spaceport, like, is low .. it was possible to launch directly from Red Square, not otherwise .. belay

    PS: What’s going on with the flag ?? Whoer shows that I am from Russia (which is true). IN yesterday painted some kind of blue rag, today - generally a mattress .. some kind of nonsense
    1. atalef
      atalef 21 November 2015 10: 23 New
      0
      Quote: Cat Man Null
      Buran was not a "copy" of the Shuttle. Completely different vehicles, let us remember that the Shuttle has never flown without a crew. Maybe he just could?

      Hello Roman
      Systems were structurally different
      I think if Amer needed, they would have made an unmanned version.
      The question is why? Why drive such a system in an unmanned version? Can anyone explain?
      Unmanned output can also be Protons, an order of magnitude cheaper
      1. avt
        avt 21 November 2015 10: 41 New
        +2
        Quote: atalef
        I think if Amer needed, they would have made an unmanned version.

        And they did - X-37, only the question is - When? Well, unlike Buran.
        1. Secta haki
          Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 46 New
          +1
          No questions asked - bought, like almost everything on the ISS.
          It’s more difficult to enter and land an airplane on a runway than to unmanned drones in orbit - they didn’t even master this, almost half a century behind in such automation.
          1. atalef
            atalef 21 November 2015 11: 10 New
            -4
            Quote: SectaHaki
            No questions asked - bought, like almost everything on the ISS.
            It’s more difficult to enter and land an airplane on a runway than to unmanned drones in orbit - they didn’t even master this, almost half a century behind in such automation.

            Well, here's another URYAYAYAAYA, at least whose reincarnation are you? Or is it originally like that?
            1. Secta haki
              Secta haki 21 November 2015 11: 18 New
              0
              initially up to date ...
              1. atalef
                atalef 21 November 2015 12: 17 New
                -5
                Quote: SectaHaki
                initially up to date ...

                By the way, why the flag of Angola?
                1. Secta haki
                  Secta haki 21 November 2015 12: 39 New
                  +2
                  why a bat?

                  and why didn’t answer about the countdown?
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 21 November 2015 12: 40 New
                    0
                    Quote: SectaHaki
                    why a bat?

                    Are you a Jew to answer a question with a question?
                    1. Secta haki
                      Secta haki 21 November 2015 13: 03 New
                      +1
                      But are you? If suddenly not, then I can two? laughing
          2. Simon
            Simon 21 November 2015 17: 44 New
            +3
            Interesting! Then why did the Americans hunt for the program that Buran conducted automatically and then put on the cosmodrome with an accuracy of 5 meters, because Buran was without a pilot?
        2. atalef
          atalef 21 November 2015 10: 59 New
          0
          Quote: avt
          Quote: atalef
          I think if Amer needed, they would have made an unmanned version.

          And they did - X-37, only the question is - When? Well, unlike Buran.

          Yes, the x-37 has completely different dimensions and was originally conceived as an unmanned reusable system.
      2. datura23
        datura23 21 November 2015 18: 15 New
        0
        Yes, and the first test flight
        they did manned because they were ABSOLUTELY confident that they would not fall ...
    2. sevtrash
      sevtrash 21 November 2015 12: 45 New
      0
      Quote: Cat Man Null
      that the shuttle had never flown without a crew. Maybe he just could?

      Shuttle take-off seems to be going automatically, landing can also be automatic. But the Americans conducted studies that showed that a person can fend off more contingencies and, most importantly, more unpredictable situations.
      1. Secta haki
        Secta haki 21 November 2015 13: 05 New
        0
        Landing cannot be automatic, otherwise the first flight would also be unmanned. Much simpler and more reliable capsules are then thrown and lowered several times in unmanned mode.
      2. Simon
        Simon 21 November 2015 17: 53 New
        +2
        The Shuttle did not have an automatic landing program; it was not developed. Under Yeltsin, they hunted for this program in Russia, but they saved its designer, although Yeltsin demanded that it be handed over to the amers.
        1. sevtrash
          sevtrash 21 November 2015 19: 28 New
          +2
          ... The ability to implement systems of this level of complexity and reliability. An automatic landing machine as it was in Buran is possible only with a digital self-propelled gun. She, like the digital EMDS, aboard the Shuttle was in flight condition in 77. Next is the work of programmers, by the way, the calculator on both stood very similar ...
          ... Shuttle pilots write that they like to get into the machine, but only if there are engines and the possibility of leaving for the second round if something fails, the Shuttle has no clear chance. They also confirm the presence of problems with the machine, for example, that it holds too high, according to the pilots, touch speed and can break pneumatics, the pilots extinguish it by slightly pulling the handle, and the machine does not know how. Therefore, they always sit in the director mode, and the automatic landing machine stands as a backup system. There was one case when we were ready to give the command to land in the machine, but in time spread out on the runway. A set of equipment for a fully automatic landing with the release of the chassis was made and transported to the ISS in case the doctors forbid the pilot to land manually after prolonged weightlessness. In principle, you can dig deeper in the details of the tests, but serious articles only in paid access alas ...
          ... There were no shuttle flights in 79. Enterprise flew off at 77m. The entire system of automatic landing in a closed control loop was not worked out on it - they made a full automatic approach, sat down once in director mode and caught several failures of the microwave system. I wrote about the second and third Shuttle flights at 81m and 82m when they began to test the automatic landing system after its modifications turning off the autopilot at all later stages of the flight ...
          1. sevtrash
            sevtrash 21 November 2015 19: 50 New
            +1
            ... it is necessary, however, to note that in all sorts of cheers - patriotic forums, automatic landing (by the way, extremely accurate in difficult weather conditions) becomes in 99% of cases the first arguments "Buran's superiority over God damned only for its American origin by shuttles". However, in reality, the shuttles are also equipped with automatic landing systems, but priority was given to manual control by a joint decision of the astronauts and NASA - it is much easier and more reliable. Moreover, the Soviet cosmonauts led by Igor Volk also insisted on manual control of Buran) ...
            ... Evil tongues assert that even the automatic landing of Buran was not actually carried out by a computer, but was carried out from the Miga-25, piloted by Magomet Tolboyev. True, at one forum I talked with an engineer who was involved in the development of the ship, and he told me that "according to his data, Buran still landed himself," although he confirmed that the system flew completely unfinished and it was a miracle that it was able to return. The famous test pilot himself adheres to the same critical views on the described program as the Wolf (http://2002.novayagazeta.ru/nomer/2002/37n/n37n-s19.shtml) ... http://krasulin-st
            as.livejournal.com/16900.html?page=
          2. Secta haki
            Secta haki 21 November 2015 19: 54 New
            -2
            Are you sure that they even write the truth to you in paid access?
            The set for automatic docking with the ISS itself without the release of the chassis included two blacks playing with joysticks and watching from the actions of the white. lol
    3. Ruslan
      Ruslan 22 November 2015 04: 25 New
      +1
      You see, you were not lucky to read Lozinsky’s interview, but I was lucky.
      technically, the snowstorm was not a copy, I did not say this, but in meaning it was. which Lozinsky did not like, he wanted to give him the shape of a case like that of a boron, from a program a spiral. but they didn’t allow it and said to do the same shuttle.
      read carefully so as not to ask stupid questions. max and burlak will reduce dependence, not energy. because they can work with conventional airfields. Of course not from Red Square, but from Moscow airports for sure :)
      1. Secta haki
        Secta haki 22 November 2015 13: 52 New
        0
        and why did the Americans leave about the same "hogs" to the shuttle?
        in the USA there were also a lot of such "spirals": X-24A, M2-F3 and HL-10
  • Svetoch
    Svetoch 21 November 2015 10: 14 New
    +5
    And the Buran ejection system? In the shuttle, before the project was closed, the shuttle could only be left with the help of an intricately curved telescopic rail extended several meters through the side hatch. And then this is possible only with controlled planning at an altitude of not more than six kilometers and a speed of not more than 370 km / h. And you say ...
    Quote: ruslan
    but the main ones decided to stupidly copy.

    soldier
    1. Throw
      Throw 21 November 2015 10: 27 New
      -2
      Copy is not a copy ...

      ANALOGUE! wink
    2. atalef
      atalef 21 November 2015 10: 32 New
      -3
      Quote: Svetoch
      And the Buran ejection system?

      I don’t understand what to comment on, that I’ve never made a flight, what was it intended to prove to the point of exhaustion that Shuttle is better?
      Shuttles made more than a hundred flights.
      To date, the similarity of the systems lies only in the fact that the USSR and the USA closed the program (only with a difference of 30 years)
      1. Secta haki
        Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 34 New
        +4
        Quote: atalef
        I don’t understand at all what to comment on that has never made a flight


        Buran has never made a flight?

        take from your shelf 29 silver pieces lol
        1. atalef
          atalef 21 November 2015 10: 54 New
          +2
          Quote: SectaHaki
          Quote: atalef
          I don’t understand at all what to comment on that has never made a flight


          Buran has never made a flight?

          take from your shelf 29 silver pieces lol

          Quote: SectaHaki
          I don’t understand what to comment on, that I’ve never made a flight, what it was intended for

          can't read?
          Quote: SectaHaki
          take from your shelf 29 silver pieces

          one still clamped wink
          1. Secta haki
            Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 59 New
            0
            take 28 ... bully
            1. atalef
              atalef 21 November 2015 11: 11 New
              -1
              Quote: SectaHaki
              take 28 ... bully

              Another steal?
              1. Secta haki
                Secta haki 21 November 2015 11: 19 New
                +3
                I didn’t steal but did not finish ... 27. laughing
                1. Serhio
                  Serhio 21 November 2015 22: 00 New
                  +2
                  You have an unproductive tax policy yes lol
                2. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 22 November 2015 16: 37 New
                  0
                  Quote: SectaHaki
                  I didn’t steal but did not finish ... 27.

                  In the end, he will also have to you! I repeat his question -
                  Quote: atalef
                  Are you Jewish?
                  laughing
                  1. Secta haki
                    Secta haki 23 November 2015 06: 26 New
                    -1
                    with gold ...

                    Look at the answer there.
        2. Simon
          Simon 21 November 2015 17: 58 New
          0
          Gorbach cut the program "Buran" for it.
      2. Svetoch
        Svetoch 21 November 2015 13: 48 New
        +4
        Quote: atalef
        at the same time, to the point of exhaustion, to prove that the Shuttle is better?

        I did not prove to exhaustion that the Buran is better than the shuttle, or that the shuttle is better than the Buran. I just said that this is not a copy. atalef You’re kind of a literate person, and although I don’t always agree with you, I used to put pluses for your posts, as there was a reason. You often speak quite objectively, but sometimes that's how it now blows you for some reason. Explain why you said so?
        Quote: atalef
        while proving to exhaustion
        I cited the catapult as an example of differences, and not in any way as evidence of the steepness of one of the products.
      3. datura23
        datura23 21 November 2015 18: 17 New
        -1
        how not to lick something, how?
    3. Simon
      Simon 21 November 2015 17: 56 New
      +2
      That's because of this, the amers have 7 cosmonauts and burned out in space.
    4. Ruslan
      Ruslan 22 November 2015 04: 32 New
      0
      in the technical part, the snowstorm is undoubtedly more perfect (many years younger than the shuttle) and completely independent development. but here's the meaning of a copy. appeared because the authorities who saw the shuttle wanted the same.
      1. Secta haki
        Secta haki 22 November 2015 14: 00 New
        -1
        this is an explanation for a children's sandbox ... although this sometimes happens when a completely degenerate power becomes.
  • Oberon812
    Oberon812 21 November 2015 13: 09 New
    +2
    I recommend a film from the Roskosmos television studio about Lozino-Lozinsky. There is about "Spiral", and about "Buran", and generally interesting:

    There are 5 parts, a total of 45 minutes.
  • python2a
    python2a 21 November 2015 13: 41 New
    +2
    So say amateurs!
    The similarity of form comes from the laws of aerodynamics.
    1. Ruslan
      Ruslan 22 November 2015 04: 36 New
      +1
      that’s because the paradox is not an amateur, but Lozinsky wanted to give the storm a form of boron from a spiral, but they didn’t allow it, they said to do it like a shuttle. and what does aerodynamics have to do with it?
      1. Secta haki
        Secta haki 22 November 2015 14: 03 New
        -1
        despite the fact that the cargo compartment turned out nothing at all, and with the wing still better ...
  • AVESSALOM
    AVESSALOM 22 November 2015 12: 41 New
    +2
    This is especially true in the combination "Mriya" - "Buran". Start from a carrier taking off from any airfield ....
  • akendram
    akendram 24 December 2015 17: 29 New
    0
    he said that according to the specified TTX, the Buran will visually resemble shuttles, there was no talk about copying. Indeed, if you need to deliver a cargo with a volume comparable to that of the shuttle, it just has to have an external similarity. And the filling is completely different ...
  • list79
    list79 21 November 2015 06: 25 New
    +2
    There was a model in Gorky Park.
  • bionik
    bionik 21 November 2015 06: 39 New
    11
    November 15, 1988. Landing "Buran" at Baikonur. At the top of the MiG-25 piloted by Magomed Tolboyev.
    1. VALERIK_097
      VALERIK_097 21 November 2015 09: 24 New
      +9
      A unique shot, but few people know that the Buran's automatic equipment took it to the second run, and after that it landed perfectly. But even at the MCC there was a shock when the ship left the course on its own.
      1. atalef
        atalef 21 November 2015 09: 38 New
        10
        Quote: VALERIK_097
        A unique shot, but few people know that the Buran's automatic equipment took it to the second run, and after that it landed perfectly. But even at the MCC there was a shock when the ship left the course on its own.

        In general, Buran was not able to be launched the first time, the mast cable did not move (on time) and the gtroscopes did not spin.
        The start was postponed for 2 weeks.
        I was part of the shift on duty both at the first (unsuccessful) and at the second (successful) start.
        1. VALERIK_097
          VALERIK_097 21 November 2015 09: 56 New
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          The start was postponed for 2 weeks.

          I think in 2 weeks, I’ll also share the good news (see Avatar).
          If the media is not ahead))))
          1. atalef
            atalef 21 November 2015 10: 05 New
            0
            Quote: VALERIK_097
            Quote: atalef
            The start was postponed for 2 weeks.

            I think in 2 weeks, I’ll also share the good news (see Avatar).
            If the media is not ahead))))

            And what is this submarine? somehow it’s hard to see.
        2. Secta haki
          Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 04 New
          +1
          Actually, the countdown would have been stopped if at least one of this had happened, so - to slander the USSR - not toss the bags ...
          1. atalef
            atalef 21 November 2015 10: 24 New
            0
            Quote: SectaHaki
            And the Buran ejection system? AT

            Do not understand ? Do you doubt that Buran was not launched the first time? belay
            1. Secta haki
              Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 31 New
              -1
              Did you really use it?

              you get confused and rave ...
              1. atalef
                atalef 21 November 2015 10: 56 New
                0
                Quote: SectaHaki
                Did you really use it?

                you get confused and rave ...

                The cancellation command took place 3 or 4 minutes before the engines started, then the fuel was drained and inspections began.
                1. Secta haki
                  Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 58 New
                  0
                  did not answer about the countdown.
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 21 November 2015 11: 12 New
                    0
                    Quote: SectaHaki
                    did not answer about the countdown.

                    Countdown what?
                    1. Secta haki
                      Secta haki 21 November 2015 11: 20 New
                      0
                      probably start.
        3. Mikhail m
          Mikhail m 21 November 2015 19: 04 New
          +2
          The whole of Leninsk on the roofs was like houses stood.
      2. sevtrash
        sevtrash 21 November 2015 12: 48 New
        +1
        Quote: VALERIK_097
        but few people know that the Buran's automatic equipment took it away for the second pass, and after that it landed perfectly. But even at the MCC there was a shock when the ship left the course on its own.

        Is it like a second run? On what engines could he leave for the second run?
        1. VALERIK_097
          VALERIK_097 21 November 2015 13: 12 New
          +3
          Unlike the shuttle, the Buran had an almost unmeasured supply of fuel, for work in space, we will assume that it was still a combat ship.
          Upon landing, the ship's ACS calculated that the landing speed was too high, and gave the command for a second approach. So, the "Buran" was performing maneuvers on its engines.
          1. ultra
            ultra 21 November 2015 14: 55 New
            +7
            Not on the second approach, but on landing almost across the runway to compensate for the strong side wind. I read this for a long time in Wings of the Motherland.
            1. Secta haki
              Secta haki 21 November 2015 15: 03 New
              +2
              Itself chose another, and correct, approach route.
          2. avt
            avt 21 November 2015 15: 36 New
            -1
            Quote: VALERIK_097
            Unlike the shuttle, the Buran had an almost unmeasured supply of fuel, for work in space, we will assume that it was still a combat ship.

            wassat laughing A new word in technology and mathematics - to the question - How much fuel is in grams, or liters? IMMEDIATELY wassat add more - either Celsius or Greenwich Mean. laughing
            Quote: VALERIK_097
            . So that "Buran" on its engines and performed maneuvers.

            So he took it straight and AHU-e-rode his engines to the second round .... laughing
            Quote: ultra
            Not for the second approach, but for landing almost across the strip, to compensate for the strong side wind.

            Well ! He came and broke off the whole evening of humor!
            1. VALERIK_097
              VALERIK_097 21 November 2015 18: 43 New
              +1
              Well, why immediately be rude.
              I did not try to go into the technical requirements for the Buran ship and the conditions for its landing. The site is visited not only by specialists like YOU, but also by people who are very far from military subjects. I think this is how everything is clear.
              1. mvg
                mvg 21 November 2015 23: 36 New
                +1
                Well, why immediately be rude.

                "Valerik", but even I, after your words about the "second run", almost choked on soup .. For some reason, I immediately imagined that we were throwing the cable onto the MiG-25, and he was helping Buran'chik with the second run ...
                And the engineers themselves take a dip at such a picture ... I think AVT is right. hi
          3. sevtrash
            sevtrash 21 November 2015 19: 13 New
            +1
            Quote: VALERIK_097
            Upon landing, the ship's ACS calculated that the landing speed was too high, and gave the command for a second approach. So, the "Buran" was performing maneuvers on its engines.

            At least read Wiki. He had no engines, there was the possibility of only one approach.
            1. avt
              avt 21 November 2015 23: 33 New
              +4
              Quote: sevtrash
              At least read Wiki.

              This is you in vain. It had two engines - kerosene / oxygen, but they worked for launching into a higher orbit, maneuvering on it and de-orbiting. And then, after working out in braking, it worked just like a shuttle. Maneuvers in the atmosphere were twisted only by the Wolf from with my own "wolf pack" on a flying stand with engines attached to it, which ones I don't remember now, like it was he who was installed in the Gorky Central Exhibition Hall in Moscow.
              1. sevtrash
                sevtrash 22 November 2015 00: 17 New
                +1
                Quote: avt
                This is you in vain. It had two engines - kerosene / oxygen, but they worked for launching into a higher orbit, maneuvering on it and de-orbiting. And then, after working out in braking, it worked just like a shuttle. Maneuvers in the atmosphere were twisted only by the Wolf from with my own "wolf pack" on a flying stand with engines attached to it, which ones I don't remember now, like it was he who was installed in the Gorky Central Exhibition Hall in Moscow.

                Yes in the course - overclocking engines, they are also for maneuvering. He had no engines for descent. The wolf flew on a variant with 4 Al31.
                1. avt
                  avt 22 November 2015 10: 03 New
                  0
                  Quote: sevtrash
                  - after-throttle engines,

                  After. smile
  • Vityok
    Vityok 21 November 2015 06: 46 New
    13
    The dream of the ideologists of "perestroika" and the reformers of the Gaidar spill came true: such a project was ruined! angry
    1. atalef
      atalef 21 November 2015 09: 14 New
      -5
      Quote: Vitek
      The dream of the ideologists of "perestroika" and the reformers of the Gaidar spill came true: such a project was ruined! angry

      He ditched himself.
      I served in the VCS and participated (some) in the launch of the Buran.
      Even then, the officers talked about the exorbitant cost of the program.
      1. Throw
        Throw 21 November 2015 09: 47 New
        +4
        So they write about it, they began to discredit the idea from them.
        1. Secta haki
          Secta haki 21 November 2015 09: 50 New
          +1
          Who are you explaining this to? bully yes
        2. atalef
          atalef 21 November 2015 09: 57 New
          -1
          Quote: Lance
          So they write about it, they began to discredit the idea from them.

          Any idea should be not only economically justified, but also economically uplifting from the point of view of the state.
          At that time, the USSR was not able to pull this, the launch of the Buran cost about 100 million rubles.
          1. Secta haki
            Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 08 New
            -2
            The USSR somehow pulled, but Israel would not, did not pull ...

            US pulled more than 135ti

            Launches are generally not made unnecessarily if they are not cost-effective for the national economy.
          2. 16112014nk
            16112014nk 21 November 2015 17: 08 New
            +2
            Somewhere, I don’t remember now, I read information that the entire program cost 16 billion rubles. When the developers and designers calculated this, they realized that the Council of Ministers and the Central Committee, due to the excessive cost of those days, would not agree to finance the program. Let's go to the trick. We decided to break it into pieces and submit it for approval in a metered way. This worked and the program was given a move.
            1. datura23
              datura23 21 November 2015 18: 22 New
              -1
              interesting, but what prevented the printing of money to finance the program, we were driven out of debt to the moon
      2. Secta haki
        Secta haki 21 November 2015 09: 48 New
        -1
        Well, what kind of nut did you screw in there, and on which self-prop laughing
      3. andj61
        andj61 21 November 2015 11: 49 New
        -2
        Quote: atalef
        Quote: Vitek
        The dream of the ideologists of "perestroika" and the reformers of the Gaidar spill came true: such a project was ruined! angry

        He ditched himself.
        I served in the VCS and participated (some) in the launch of the Buran.
        Even then, the officers talked about the exorbitant cost of the program.

        And generally not just Buran - the whole system was prohibitively expensive. For its functioning, 5-6 Buranes were needed, but there were no goals and the meaning of their flights into orbit, and for Energy there were no cargoes that could justify its existence and operation. After the fall in oil prices in the early 80s, the Union simply did not have the funds for this space program. All existing goals were achieved two orders of magnitude cheaper means.
        Greetings, Alexander. hi
      4. Secta haki
        Secta haki 21 November 2015 15: 04 New
        +4
        The officers were accountants?
    2. Ronino
      Ronino 21 November 2015 09: 23 New
      +4
      Someone receives orders and grandmothers for the creation, and someone for the collapse and destruction ...
  • Nik_One
    Nik_One 21 November 2015 07: 04 New
    +6
    Of course, I understand .. Pride in our engineers and designers, romanticism and nostalgia for the achievements of the USSR. All this is and all is justified. But...

    You can of course throw me with minuses, but do not be like a neighboring country, for which Putin is to blame for everything, and blame all the events on the machinations of the Americans. It is necessary to separate the flies from cutlets.
    It is worth remembering that "Buran", just like assembling it "Shuttle", was originally a military project and in this regard lost its relevance even before its first flight. It was not because of the Americans that it turned out exactly the way it turned out. In this regard, he became hostage to the interests of various ministries and departments, defending their interests in the implementation of such an expensive project. As a result, even in the great and mighty Soviet Union, they ceased to find its relevance. It was this that explained the constant delays in the flight of the second ship and the third launch with people on board.
    Soviet space has always been primarily military, civilian use was secondary. And this is normal for any country, especially for a great country, which should first of all think about its security.
    The author writes:
    Through their agents of influence, Americans, beginning in the mid-1980s, began to intensively instill in Soviet society views on outer space as the main brake on the country's socio-economic development. And the timid explanations of scientists about the importance of basic space research, which even then brought a huge economic effect, were drowning in the general stream of “anti-cosmic” psychosis.

    The dream of the ideologists of “perestroika” and reformers of the Gaidar spill came true: the cosmos began to bring commercial income ...


    The Gaidar "reformers" did not need any space at all ...
    But the fact that space is generating revenue is completely normal. How else? For the country's economy, everything should be profitable. Otherwise, where do the funds for defense and science come from, etc.

    I repeat, at the end of the 80s, neither for Buran, nor for the Energia launch vehicle on the horizon was clearly visible any intelligible application. Therefore, the project was almost mothballed.
    It is sad and sad, it does not beg the talents of our scientists and engineers, but we can’t get away from it. You can certainly try to blame everything on the machinations of enemies, but it will only be a consolation ...
    Of the entire project, Energia could be relevant today, precisely as a super-heavy launch vehicle. But again, it is not realistic to recreate "Energy" in that form, neither for political nor for economic reasons. It is necessary to remember "Energy - Buran" as the last great project of a great country, but at the same time move on in the right direction and, relying on the past, not make the same mistakes.
    1. Ruslan
      Ruslan 21 November 2015 08: 23 New
      0
      then the minus should be minus the Lozino-Lozinsky. he, too, was opposed to the creation of snowstorm, and offered cheaper and more effective alternatives. I tried in every possible way to improve the project and the result in person: a space robotic plane. here max was such an alternative. although the energy is needed, as I understand it, also to launch the Scythian laser, which was also launched once and burned in orbit. and this is 80 tons.
    2. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 08: 26 New
      +1
      The orbiting space station MIR (and MIR-2) was such an orbiting space military station ...
    3. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 08: 52 New
      +2
      Launching a large Skylab orbital station in one, two, three, or with six launches to fly to Mars or further - is this not a sensible application?
      Or for the weekend fly to the moon for Helium-3?

      And why now fly by airbus and not on the Tu-145-2B?
  • Basarev
    Basarev 21 November 2015 07: 07 New
    -16
    But in general, Buran is nothing more than a copy of the Shuttle ... The spiral is not a self-contained device, it still relied on the accelerator. That’s really a pity, it’s the Myasishchev M-19 nuclear spaceship.
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 08: 30 New
      +4
      And what exactly was copied there? Boeings are not copies of Airbases?

      Is this RTTU apparatus or a bunch of meteorological rockets impossible to launch exactly? wassat Well, pity yourself ...
    2. atalef
      atalef 21 November 2015 09: 19 New
      +4
      Quote: Basarev
      But overall Buran is nothing more than a copy of the Shuttle

      he is not a copy, aerodynamics determines the appearance
      The main difference is that the Shuttle engines are running during the launch, while Buran does not.
    3. Cat man null
      Cat man null 21 November 2015 09: 30 New
      +7
      Quote: Basarev
      overall Buran is nothing more than a copy of the Shuttle

      Sometimes it's better to chew than talk ..
  • Vityok
    Vityok 21 November 2015 07: 53 New
    +2
    In my opinion, the time has come to name the people by name "HEROES" who put their dirty hands to the collapse of this project. Gorbachev and his team ... angry
  • Just BB
    Just BB 21 November 2015 08: 01 New
    +5
    If available outward similarities - this still does not give the right to say that the second is a copy of the first.
    It's a shame that in addition to the Buran-Energiya system itself, how many other technologies and materials have "died"
    1. Nik_One
      Nik_One 21 November 2015 09: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: Just BB
      If there are external similarities - this does not give the right to say that the second is a copy of the first.

      Totally agree with you. "Buran" cannot be called in any way a copybecause It was developed from scratch using its technology.
      In this case, to emphasize the similarity, the word would be more appropriate analogue, fellow.
  • Old26
    Old26 21 November 2015 08: 19 New
    0
    Quote: ruslan
    Lozinsky was against blind copying of the shuttles and offered a more advanced version, but the main ones decided to stupidly copy.

    Alas, the Politburo turned out to be "stronger". Both Gleb Evgenievich and many of the leadership of the space industry were against, trying to prove that, unlike the Shuttle, for ours there was (at that time) such target loads, but all to no avail

    Quote: SectaHaki
    And what exactly was copied there? Half of the article is muddy, like the recent ones about the reactive submarine (in its entirety) and the hypersonic Concorde, which is perverting. Apparently it became completely boring to someone.

    The first version of Buran was generally ABSOLUTE a copy of the Shuttle. The article, of course, is not without flaws, but to call it dregs - you bent it. For many, the history of the creation of "Buran" is generally unknown. And for a short article, it is quite normal. Article plus despite some blunders of the author ...

    Quote: Nik_One
    It is worth remembering that "Buran", just like assembling it "Shuttle", was originally a military project and in this regard lost its relevance even before its first flight. It was not because of the Americans that it turned out exactly the way it turned out.

    I do not quite agree with your remark. Yes, of course, shuttles were primarily military projects (but the Americans were able to find the possibility of its commercial use). Nevertheless, nevertheless, the decision on the architecture of our shuttle was made under pressure from senior management. Namely, it was done according to the principle: "don't think you're smarter than the Americans. They're not stupid, so do the same as theirs."
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 08: 34 New
      +4
      "Old26", do not compose the brain - when something is copied, it is the work of technologists and not designers, because the sample or drawings are already there.
      After the perestroika, the Soviet one copied everything that I did not buy from kamaz and ejection seats to the ISS. Now from bottom to top they have reached RPG-7 ...
      following the Chinese and Israelis, the Kalashnikovs did not disdain to get hold of them either.
    2. Nik_One
      Nik_One 21 November 2015 08: 52 New
      0
      I do not quite agree with your remark. Yes, of course, shuttles were primarily military projects (but the Americans were able to find the possibility of its commercial use).

      The fact is that the Shuttle was also largely influenced by the Ministry of Defense, and its characteristics were set mainly by the military. But it was designed precisely as a system of delivery and return of goods. Therefore, they continued to use it both for military and commercial purposes as a means of delivery, on the basis that output objects had already been painted for the program. Although the Space Shuttle militarily also did not realize itself as originally intended.
    3. Ronino
      Ronino 21 November 2015 09: 31 New
      +3
      Do not judge by their appearance ... Our energy flew by itself, but shuttle tanks cannot, a snowstorm without a crew wrote turns and a shuttle?
      1. atalef
        atalef 21 November 2015 09: 43 New
        -2
        Quote: RoninO
        Do not judge by appearance ... Our energy flew by itself

        Why in the plural?
        The first launch of the Energy is partially successful, the orbit to the desired orbit was not made and the weight model was not planned to separate (in the desired orbit)
        The second launch - with Buran, that's all.
        The energy was not reusable (more precisely, it was thought so), but after both launches the rocket was rebuilt

        Quote: RoninO
        a snowstorm without a crew wrote bends, and a shuttle?

        Buran did not write any turns, the landing scheme was tough and implied the writing of aerobatics.
    4. avt
      avt 21 November 2015 15: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: Old26
      the architecture of our shuttle was made under pressure from senior management

      laughing laughing And where is the Buran building now?
      Quote: Old26
      ... Namely, it was done according to the principle: "do not consider yourself smarter than the Americans. They are not fools, so do the same as theirs."

      Who specifically told you this? That's what Grechko said about aircraft carriers - yes, it was. He said that they would design as "Nimitz". And in relation to "Buran" they simply pushed to make the first device with a load commensurate with the "Shuttle" put into orbit.
      Quote: Old26
      The first version of the "Buran" was generally an ABSOLUTE copy of the "Shuttle"

      wassat What is the first option and where did you see that ??? Initially, Glushko set himself the goal of making a carrier for a flight to the moon, so Energia became the carrier of Buran in fact. so unlike the Shuttle with an additional tank and solid propellant boosters, the Energiya - Buran system consisted of TWO machines, one of which, Energiya, could operate autonomously from the orbital reusable Buran, which was confirmed by the launch with the Skif combat module, which was drowned in the spirit of peerstroika.
      Quote: atalef
      Energy wasn’t reusable (more precisely, it was thought so),

      They planned to use accelerators, but it was planned to develop their return already during the flight program.
      Quote: atalef
      Buran didn’t write any turns,

      I wrote down - the glide path was so steep and the automation introduced a correction for the weather - there was a wind, that they decided on the escort side - right now ... it will hit. wassat And he, the bastard, sat down like a glove and did not grunt.
  • Old26
    Old26 21 November 2015 08: 20 New
    -2
    Quote: Nik_One
    I repeat, at the end of the 80s, neither Buran, nor Energia launch vehicle could clearly see any intelligible application on the horizon.

    In the late 80s, only after two flights of Energia did they start talking about creating loads that only she could carry, although logically this had to be done in parallel

    Quote: Nik_One
    It is sad and sad, it does not beg the talents of our scientists and engineers, but we can’t get away from it. You can certainly try to blame everything on the machinations of enemies, but it will only be a consolation ...

    To blame on the machinations of enemies is the easiest. But this is not right. In this case, the mistake of the leadership, or rather its practice of dictating to designers what is needed and what is not, has led to such results. A small shuttle would be in demand in both the military and civilian sectors.

    Quote: Nik_One
    Of the entire project, Energia could be relevant today, precisely as a super-heavy launch vehicle. But again, it is not realistic to recreate "Energy" in that form, neither for political nor for economic reasons.

    Yes, that would be a solution, but alas, it is not feasible. "Energy" was created by the entire Soviet Union. And now the same Yuzhnoye is located in Ukraine ...

    Quote: Basarev
    But in general, Buran is nothing more than a copy of the Shuttle ... The spiral is not a self-contained device, it still relied on the accelerator. That’s really a pity, it’s the Myasishchev M-19 nuclear spaceship.

    "Spiral" could also be launched by a carrier rocket. EMNIP "Zenith" and "Proton". The overclocker himself, although it was an interesting idea, was, alas, impossible for those years (and even now). As well as the M-19, which is still just a "paper" project
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 08: 36 New
      +3
      in this case, it simply betrayed the leadership ... but it was like with the Tu-160 on the square and the machinations of enemies.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Pachan
    Pachan 21 November 2015 08: 37 New
    +2
    Amateur Article
    "It is also known that at about the same time in the Soviet Union, a reusable aerospace system (MAKS) was created. An orbital aircraft in this system, starting from the An-225 carrier aircraft, could deliver two cosmonauts and a payload to near-earth orbit weighing up to 8 tons. And to launch artificial satellites weighing up to 1000 kg into near-earth orbit, a two-stage light-class Burlak rocket was created. The rocket weighed no more than 30 tons and could be launched into space from a Tu-160 carrier aircraft. " As far as I understand, we are talking about the beginning of the 70s, but the An-225 began to be designed in 1984, and the Tu-160 - in 1972.
    Read better the interview of Magomed Tolboev: “Only from space today can you protect the country” http://www.stoletie.ru/obschestvo/magomed_tolbojev_tolko_iz_kosmosa_segodna_mozh
    no_zashhitit_stranu_891.htm
    and “BURAN”: PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE http://aviator.guru/blog/43612159686/%C2%ABBURAN%C2%BB:-PROSHLOE,-NASTOYASCHEE-I
    -BUDUSCHEE
  • s.melioxin
    s.melioxin 21 November 2015 08: 44 New
    +4
    On November 15, 1988, the Soviet drone “Buran”, breaking the Earth’s gravity and entering a given orbit, made two circles around the Earth in 3 hours 25 minutes, after which it calmly landed exactly in the indicated place, deviating from the given trajectory by only ... 5 m
    I will just share it as a performer of "hardware" to the product 228. Shifts are not enough, we do not have time for 2 shifts, organized by 3. And we did. And after how much alcohol was drunk, no one measured it. WE did for us for everyone. We are winners.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • 1536
    1536 21 November 2015 08: 45 New
    +8
    Unfortunately, not only the Energia-Buran project itself was ruined, but also hundreds of scientific and technical achievements created in more than 10 industries at hundreds of factories, research institutes and design bureaus, which were used in its development and construction. There were people who said that "Buran" is not gentle to anyone, expensive, the American "Shuttle" is cheaper and more technologically advanced. "Why do we need" Baran "when there is no sausage for 2.20 rubles per kilo?" This was the general attitude then, created in the Soviet party media on a command from the "raspberries" of the CPSU.
    Why, then, after a small number of years, when the USSR had already disintegrated, these scientific and technical achievements began to "emerge" and be used in the development of various foreign units, coatings, technologies? And here, too - in commercial enterprises, as a rule with joint ventures with Western capital. It turns out that it was profitable to sell in parts, but to achieve implementation in your country, at your enterprises, then, no. This is one of the results of the perestroika, organized by Gorbachev and his gang to destroy the domestic industry and science.
    1. APASUS
      APASUS 21 November 2015 22: 28 New
      +1
      Quote: 1536
      Unfortunately, not only the Energia-Buran project itself was ruined, but also hundreds of scientific and technical achievements created in more than 10 industries at hundreds of factories, research institutes and design bureaus, which were used in its development and construction

      On the example of Buran, a scheme for destroying the industry of the USSR was worked out. The scheme itself was formed around rumors of prohibitive cost and unprofitability. The Americans formed in those days a system of interdependence of the press, rumors and specific suppression of a competitor and attracted the best lobbyist of their interests Gorbachev.
      As a green student, he took part in the production of thermal protection. Thanks to the restructuring, now there is no longer that plant and research institute. But what a crush was given to the national economy, how many technologies have been worked out.
  • Old26
    Old26 21 November 2015 08: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: SectaHaki
    "Old26", do not compose the brain - when something is copied, it is the work of technologists and not designers, because the sample or drawings are already there.
    After the perestroika, the Soviet one copied everything that I did not buy from kamaz and ejection seats to the ISS. Now from bottom to top they have reached RPG-7 ...

    Both the article and the comments are not talking about copying technology. We are talking about the architecture of the ship, about its aerodynamic design.

    Quote: Pachan
    Amateur Article
    "It is also known that at about the same time in the Soviet Union, a reusable aerospace system (MAKS) was created. An orbital aircraft in this system, starting from the An-225 carrier aircraft, could deliver two cosmonauts and a payload to near-earth orbit weighing up to 8 tons. And to launch artificial satellites weighing up to 1000 kg into near-earth orbit, a two-stage light-class Burlak rocket was created. The rocket weighed no more than 30 tons and could be launched into space from a Tu-160 carrier aircraft. " As far as I understand, we are talking about the beginning of the 70s, but the An-225 began to be designed in 1984, and the Tu-160 - in 1972.
    Read better the interview of Magomed Tolboev: “Only from space today can you protect the country” http://www.stoletie.ru/obschestvo/magomed_tolbojev_tolko_iz_kosmosa_segodna_mozh

    no_zashhitit_stranu_891.htm
    and “BURAN”: PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE http://aviator.guru/blog/43612159686/%C2%ABBURAN%C2%BB:-PROSHLOE,-NASTOYASCHEE-I

    -BUDUSCHEE

    MAKS began to design, work on it was launched, after the completion of work on the "Buran", that is, in 1988.
    The MAX system was not created in the USSR, it was only being created. A technological layout of the orbital aircraft and fuel tank was made. But this OS did not complete a single flight due to the fact that no flight model was created
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 09: 08 New
      +2
      Quote: Old26
      Both the article and the comments are not talking about copying technology. We are talking about the architecture of the ship, about its aerodynamic design.

      however, for the first time such a clarification ... and what kind of scheme and architecture is there like a tricky one like an ax?
      There was a particular choice: more resistant materials appeared - immediately returned to a simple scheme, not like the ones before BOR-5
    2. atalef
      atalef 21 November 2015 09: 28 New
      +4
      Quote: Old26
      Both the article and the comments are not talking about copying technology. We are talking about the architecture of the ship, about its aerodynamic design.

      Does it surprise you that the appearance of the aircraft is similar? Torpedo? Submarines? Parachutes? Hang gliders? Gliders?
      --- Do you know what aerodynamics is?
      She dictates the rules.
      By the way, about copying, the Shuttle flew 8! (1981) years earlier than Buran,
      The construction of Colombia was launched on March 27, 1975., and on March 24, 1979, Columbia was transferred to NASA.

      Чshuttle drawings and photographs were first obtained in the USSR through the GRU in early 1975 years [5] [6]. Two examinations on the military component were immediately carried out: at the military research institutes and at the Institute of Applied Mathematics under the leadership of Mstislav Keldysh. Conclusions: “the future reusable ship will be able to carry nuclear weapons and attack the territory of the USSR from virtually anywhere in near-Earth space”

      The tactical and technical task for the development of a reusable space system was issued by the Main Space Administration of the USSR Ministry of Defense and approved D.F.Ustinov November 8, 1976.

      it’s probably worth completing the mantras on this - who copied from whom and what.
  • Old26
    Old26 21 November 2015 09: 03 New
    0
    Quote: Nik_One
    The fact is that the Shuttle was also largely influenced by the Ministry of Defense, and its characteristics were set mainly by the military. But it was designed precisely as a system of delivery and return of goods. Therefore, they continued to use it both for military and commercial purposes as a means of delivery, on the basis that output objects had already been painted for the program. Although the Space Shuttle militarily also did not realize itself as originally intended.

    So I wrote the same thing. That the project was primarily military, but the Americans were able to find a niche for commercial use.
    And the performance characteristics of the shuttle were really set based on the parameters (weight and size) of large military satellites. It was supposed to be able to launch and remove from orbit satellites like Lacrosse and Key Huol ...

    Quote: s.melioxin
    I will just share it as a performer of "hardware" to the product 228. Shifts are not enough, we do not have time for 2 shifts, organized by 3. And we did. And after how much alcohol was drunk, no one measured it. WE did for us for everyone. We are winners.

    That's for sure. When they handed over the products, they forgot about the dream and everything else ...
    1. atalef
      atalef 21 November 2015 09: 36 New
      0
      Quote: Old26
      So I wrote the same thing. That the project was primarily military, but the Americans were able to find a niche for commercial use.

      no - it was not primarily a military project.
      Or why does he need such a payload and a huge hangar? Do you carry fabs?
      For YaB a lot of space is not needed.
      1. andj61
        andj61 21 November 2015 11: 58 New
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        no - it was not primarily a military project.
        Or why does he need such a payload and a huge hangar? Do you carry fabs?
        For YaB a lot of space is not needed.

        Is military use limited to FABs and nuclear weapons? Launching dozens of satellites at a precisely defined orbit at a time is also clearly a military target, and the Shuttle has done this repeatedly.
        And when in one of the first flights the Shuttle made a "dive" into the atmosphere over the European part of the Union - even Brezhnev realized that this urgently needed to be countered! But instead of a shield, again - as was practiced then - they decided to make a similar sword. The USA could "pull" such a program, but the USSR in the 80s did not. request
        1. atalef
          atalef 21 November 2015 12: 04 New
          +1
          Quote: andj61
          Is military use limited to FABs and nuclear weapons? Launching dozens of satellites at a precisely defined orbit at a time is also clearly a military target, and the Shuttle has done this repeatedly.

          Andrey, that's why I write that it was not exclusively a military project.
          Exclusively military implies the restructuring of civilian products under the characteristics, dimensions, etc. of the military.
          Here, for use in both civilian and military purposes, no alterations were required
          Quote: andj61
          And when in one of the first flights the Shuttle made a "dive" into the atmosphere over the European part of the Union - even Brezhnev realized that this urgently needed to be countered

          Well, of course, there was Hol.voyna and the Americans never missed the opportunity to mount
          Quote: andj61
          But instead of a shield, again - as was practiced then - they decided to make a similar sword. The USA could "pull" such a program, but the USSR in the 80s did not.

          Here I am about the same hi
        2. avt
          avt 21 November 2015 15: 19 New
          +2
          Quote: andj61
          And when in one of the first flights the Shuttle made a "dive" into the atmosphere over the European part of the Union - even Brezhnev realized that this urgently needed to be countered!

          laughing laughing Good joke! good The first time I heard him from a single political officer about how the Shuttle descends into lower orbit, throws a vigorous bonboy and flies up. laughing And in life Ustinov called Kazakhstan, where his favorite toy, a laser "rangefinder", was located and ordered to "measure" the distance from the shuttle to the ground, but not at full power. We measured it, so that along the "red line" that was really flushed from the cry of the Yankes, they squealed - What are you doing there! Astronauts began to cook hard-boiled in a microwave oven.
          Quote: andj61
          ... The USA could "pull" such a program, but the USSR in the 80s did not.

          request Well, damn it, why give out your glitches for knowledge ??? Moreover, in general terms on the site, this topic has ALREADY been covered! Even about the first attempt to bring out a real laser warhead, called "Skif" by the mock-up. Well, don't be lazy - get into the archive on the topic and you will have knowledge that is power.
          1. andj61
            andj61 21 November 2015 21: 40 New
            0
            Quote: avt
            Well, damn it, why give out your glitches for knowledge ??? Moreover, in general terms on the site, this topic has ALREADY been covered! Even about the first attempt to bring out a real laser warhead, called "Skif" by the mock-up. Well, don't be lazy - get into the archive on the topic and you will have knowledge that is power.

            What are the glitches? Those that the USSR could not pull space programs at that time? Do you think you could? And what does this laser layout have to do with it?
            And about the "dive" of the shuttle over the European part of Russia up to 80 km (and this is already the upper layers of the atmosphere) in those days just rumors circulated. And I am inclined to believe them - these were rumors from military unit 73790, and they were precisely engaged in providing our military space, and at that time I worked after university in the city of Kaliningrad as an engineer in the neighboring military unit 25840 - this is NII- 4 Ministry of Defense of the USSR, just the Strategic Missile Forces. And they also talked about the use of a laser rangefinder you mentioned then, but only about the squealing of the Americans - this was from the field of assumptions! That shuttle range finder could not heat up so that they felt it, the power would not be enough, the distance is more than 100 km, of which 40 kilometers are dense layers of the atmosphere.
            1. avt
              avt 21 November 2015 23: 15 New
              0
              Quote: andj61
              ? Do you think you could?

              But I don’t voice my thoughts, but try to mention only those facts that have already been voiced in the media in particular.
              Quote: andj61
              And about the "dive" of the shuttle over the European part of Russia up to 80 km (and this is already the upper layers of the atmosphere) in those days just rumors circulated.

              laughing Yes, not even rumors, but the MO film studio even shot a movie with a Soviet Vulture chipboard with an animation of a shuttle with missiles in the cargo compartment, that’s exactly what the young people are calling fake now, the political leaders and voiced.
              Quote: andj61
              ! That rangefinder could not heat the shuttle in such a way that it would be felt, there wouldn’t be enough power, the distance is more than 100 km, of which 40 kilometers are dense layers of the atmosphere.

              laughing You didn’t even bother to see what I took in quotation marks "rangefinder". Laser topics and some other topics were DF Ustinov's favorite topic, a lot has now been discovered and even shooting tests with "pumping" at the test site flashed on TV, well, from those that were prepared for "Skif", but still no one learns much, although even on the site the beginning of a glorious journey, in the Navy in particular, was highlighted on the site.
              1. andj61
                andj61 22 November 2015 08: 15 New
                +1
                Quote: avt
                and the MO film studio even filmed a movie with a Soviet signature stamp of chipboard with a shuttle animation

                Film Studio MO is not just rumors, it was in reality. And the film is based on specific information coming from specific people, the impetus for this was specific facts. By the way, inquire WHERE this film studio was geographically located, the very team that filmed this film and compare it with the numbers of the military unit indicated by me - it will be curious. The history of the creation of this film is another story of the Soviet period, only confirming the story of the same "dive" at which I mentioned and which you ridiculed. But apart from tales in those days, there was no reliable information - one had to be content with them, analyzing the degree of their reliability, and comparing with the information that he himself possessed due to his official activities. By the way, the stamp "DSP" in those days, by the way, meant absolutely nothing (in the present it is like "secret" in those), except that it was impossible to show in cinemas for money.
                And according to the range finder - it is a range finder or a combat laser it does not matter! - nothing from the earth - from the word absolutely - well, perhaps he could not make a shuttle for some optical devices - shuttle. And the distance, and in the atmosphere, and the sheathing of the shuttle itself simply would not allow this to be done. And with the nuclear pumping of the lasers themselves we didn’t have (although at least the technical task for the development of the possibility of creating it was issued), but even such a laser could not do anything to the shuttle from the ground. Quite by accident (not only this test was carried out simultaneously, not only weapons, but also detection and tracking devices) I witnessed a laser test to protect the perimeter of strategic missile forces from aircraft. The tests were successful, but the effective range was about 2 km - such a laser was then recognized as a failure. And now a little more effective in the United States and Israel with a range of defeat of a kilometer of 3 pass as a breakthrough!
                1. Secta haki
                  Secta haki 22 November 2015 14: 10 New
                  +1
                  too many: "could not", "could not have done", "bike", "rumors", "not possible", "absolutely unimportant", "would not have allowed", "did not exist", "quite by accident", "but "," failure "... this NLP doesn't work anymore lol

                  Renmetall, an iron dome, and others like that without nuclear pumping ...

                  the movements of satellites in space were monitored, the shuttle was even more so .. he dived over Moscow, and violated the airspace of the USSR (below 100 km) in fact - they just aimed at him with the "Terroy", the astronauts inside became ill and the equipment malfunctioned, and which and completely refused ... there was nothing to "dive" into the wrong hole.
  • Nik_One
    Nik_One 21 November 2015 09: 10 New
    0
    Quote: Old26
    So I wrote the same thing. That the project was primarily military, but the Americans were able to find a niche for commercial use.

    Well, yes, we are talking about the same thing.) It's just that in the USSR this niche was occupied by the Proton launch vehicle, which was cheaper to launch.
    1. atalef
      atalef 21 November 2015 09: 36 New
      0
      Quote: Nik_One
      Quote: Old26
      So I wrote the same thing. That the project was primarily military, but the Americans were able to find a niche for commercial use.

      Well, yes, we are talking about the same thing.) It's just that in the USSR this niche was occupied by the Proton launch vehicle, which was cheaper to launch.

      These are completely different things and comparing the Proton and the Shuttle, it’s like comparing the soft with the warm.
      1. Nik_One
        Nik_One 21 November 2015 09: 48 New
        0
        Please tell us what is the difference between the output of a certain number of tons of payload between the Shuttle and Proton?
        1. atalef
          atalef 21 November 2015 10: 00 New
          -1
          Quote: Nik_One
          Please tell us what is the difference between the output of a certain number of tons of payload between the Shuttle and Proton?

          The shuttle did not think for stupid orbiting, for this they had enough proton-type launch vehicles
          The shuttle was conceived for
          1. Manned flights
          2. Maneuver in orbit
          3 Output payload.
          4 Orbit from satellites
          5. Repair of satellites in space
          Few ?
          1. Nik_One
            Nik_One 21 November 2015 10: 10 New
            +1
            atalef, in this case, you are comparing, something that does not need to be compared. Operations with satellites and the return of particularly valuable and dangerous objects from outer space were exactly the same as originally planned for the military component of the project, and we are talking specifically about the commercial component.
          2. Secta haki
            Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 14 New
            +2
            Shitty ...
            1. manned capsules and skylabs can also be launched with missiles
            2. capsules can also maneuver in orbit
            3. use for this - nowhere worse
            4. maybe even strangers ... because why take it off when you can repair it, and larger capsules the same size can do it too.
            5. Capsules can do this too.

            if only paragraph 4 and a little 2 - not a lot.
  • Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 21 November 2015 09: 16 New
    +3
    including artificially created weightlessness.

    Really.!? The author, yes, you made a breakthrough in science.
  • Old26
    Old26 21 November 2015 09: 49 New
    +1
    Quote: SectaHaki
    however, for the first time such a clarification ... and what kind of scheme and architecture is there like a tricky one like an ax?

    What architecture? Yes, in principle, the same first version of the shuttle, known as the OS-120, had, like the Shuttle, three engines on the ship itself (there were none on the central tank). Dimensions are about the same as the Shuttle:
    Length = OS-120 (37,5 m), shuttle (37,5 m)
    Wingspan = OS-120 (22 m), shuttle (23,8 m)
    Load compartment = OS-120 (18,5 x 4,6 m), shuttle (18,3 x 4,55 m)
    Starting weight = OS-120 (119,35 t), shuttle (111 t)
    Dry weight = OS-120 (68 t), shuttle (68,1 t)
    Output loads = OS-120 (30/20/16 t), shuttle (26,5 / 18/14 t)
    Return loads = OS-120 (20 t), shuttle (14,5 t)

    The second version of our shuttle was already different from OS-120. Three engines were transferred to the central tank, and the OS appeared two jet engines. The dry mass became 51 tons in general, which would allow transporting it with the AN-22 aircraft.

    Well, the culmination was the 11F35 product. "Buran"
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 00 New
      +3
      There were more than a dozen and a half options as well as amers. We came to different. Soviet is better. Especially when revising the returnability of the second stage engines of the Energia launch vehicle (the engines are reusable). In the first, second (and last) launch, this was not yet, because they were in a hurry ...
      1. atalef
        atalef 21 November 2015 10: 09 New
        -2
        Quote: SectaHaki
        There were more than a dozen options, like the Amers. Came to different. Soviet is better.

        Soviet - worse, you know why?
        He did not fly in reusable mode and all these ideas - remained ideas and the question - could they be implemented
        Quote: SectaHaki
        In the first, second (and extreme) launch it was not yet this, because they were in a hurry ...

        Because they could not - these systems were only in the project.
        I wonder why the Shuttles from the first launch were reusable, but here - if there wasn’t (although it should have been like that) - the answer was --- just rushed.
        1. Secta haki
          Secta haki 21 November 2015 11: 03 New
          +1
          And in which he flew? repeat

          because they stupidly carried with them a part of the dead cargo of the second stage (three engines), which even for bringing into orbit, and not just leaving it, was no longer used.
          1. atalef
            atalef 21 November 2015 11: 08 New
            -2
            Quote: SectaHaki
            because they stupidly carried with them a part of the dead cargo of the second stage (three engines), which even for bringing into orbit, and not just leaving it, was no longer used.

            Who cares ? He was so conceived and he flew.
            1. Secta haki
              Secta haki 21 November 2015 11: 15 New
              +2
              It was badly conceived, and flew accordingly. Bad car. If he had not yet dropped the TTU and the external tank (the same one-time second stage), then he would not have a price at all ...
              1. Secta haki
                Secta haki 21 November 2015 11: 41 New
                +2
                But each snack was a good show with popcorn, and about manned space exploration beyond low Earth orbit, and even about Skylab, with a machine like the Shuttle, you could forget for more than 40 years ...
    2. Poplar505
      Poplar505 21 November 2015 11: 50 New
      +3
      I apologize.
      The product is usually pH.
      An object is an output payload in a so-called outer space or into the orbit of the Earth.
      Sincerely.
  • Old26
    Old26 21 November 2015 10: 01 New
    +1
    Quote: atalef
    Does it surprise you that the appearance of the aircraft is similar? Torpedo? Submarines? Parachutes? Hang gliders? Gliders? --- Do you know what aerodynamics are? It dictates the rules.

    Heard. But take two planes of the same class. And yet, despite the same conditions, they are different from each other in detail. In the arrangement of engines, wings, etc. Nobody says that BURAN is ABSOLUTE COPY OF THE Shuttle, but his first studies had exactly the same scheme as the shuttle. There was an order to do the same. And they started to do it, although the last option is already different from the American shuttle ...
    And they did it themselves, on their technologies and developments

    Quote: atalef
    no - it was not primarily a military project. Or why did he need such a load-carrying capacity and a huge hangar? To carry fabs? For YaB a lot of space is not necessary.

    I generally consider the delusions of using the shuttle as a bomber. In addition, those who write now that he could bomb and so on would see what the inclination of the orbit was, and to what latitudes it reached in the USSR. Perhaps in the future he could be used as an orbital bomber, equip it with warheads. But first of all, it was designed for the needs of the United States Department of Defense and its cargo compartment was designed to enable the withdrawal and return of bulky loads. Well, then the Americans just started its commercial use, removing for pay a load of other countries.
    1. atalef
      atalef 21 November 2015 10: 15 New
      0
      Quote: Old26
      Heard

      Gut good
      Quote: Old26
      But take two planes of the same class. And yet, despite the same conditions, they are different from each other in detail.

      Stickers?
      Quote: Old26
      that BURAN is an absolute copy of the shuttle, but its first studies had exactly the same scheme as the shuttle.

      Which one is the same?
      Quote: Old26
      And they started to do it, although the last option is already different from the American shuttle ...

      Launch schemes differ fundamentally, do you understand the word fundamentally?
      It is impossible to redo it on the road, these parameters are laid in the initial stage -TEXPORTS
      Quote: Old26
      And they did it themselves, on their technologies and developments

      well did, well? What in the USSR was there a lot of sensible designers?
      I never said Buran is a copy of Colombia.
      Shuttle - Buran systems - in theory identical, in design decision - different

      Quote: Old26
      But first of all, it was designed for the needs of the United States Department of Defense and its cargo compartment was designed to enable the withdrawal and return of bulky loads. Well, then the Americans just started its commercial use, removing for a fee the load of other countries.

      One second did not interfere initially.
      1. Secta haki
        Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 36 New
        +1
        They also have different ideas and purposes ... Americans just don’t know how to think deeply, and you just watch. laughing
    2. Nik_One
      Nik_One 21 November 2015 10: 18 New
      0
      Quote: Old26
      I generally consider the delusions of using the shuttle as a bomber.

      The shuttle was not designed exactly as a bomber. Military assignment is not just about bombing. The shuttle was supposed to launch reconnaissance satellites and elements of the missile defense space system to service them, as well as return especially valuable satellites and especially dangerous objects with nuclear materials or weapons on board.
      1. atalef
        atalef 21 November 2015 10: 33 New
        0
        Quote: Nik_One
        Quote: Old26
        I generally consider the delusions of using the shuttle as a bomber.

        The shuttle was not designed exactly as a bomber. Military assignment is not just about bombing. The shuttle was supposed to launch reconnaissance satellites and elements of the missile defense space system to service them, as well as return especially valuable satellites and especially dangerous objects with nuclear materials or weapons on board.

        Great, and he did it all perfectly.
  • Old26
    Old26 21 November 2015 10: 10 New
    0
    Quote: SectaHaki
    There were more than a dozen and a half options as well as amers. We came to different. Soviet is better. Especially when revising the returnability of the second stage engines of the Energia launch vehicle (the engines are reusable). In the first, second (and last) launch, this was not yet, because they were in a hurry ...

    There were really a lot of options. Especially at the very initial stage, when the competition began (in the USA). At one time at work in the safe we ​​had a volume of 600 pages dedicated to the beginning and all stages of the choice of schemes. Much later, 5-7 years after this, "extracts" from this "work" appeared in the open press in the form of the book "Reusable Rockets".

    I'm not saying that the Soviet is worse. We just made it, but there were no loads under it. And when finalized, it would really be better
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 41 New
      +2
      Why did they get that there were no loads under it? He was better already.
  • midshipman
    midshipman 21 November 2015 10: 48 New
    13
    It was very nice to read the article. I began to work in this area since 1964 after defending a dissertation (candidate). Participated in all developments. For all aircraft OKB A.I. Mikoyan created integrated AFS, then created an automatic landing. He worked at NII-33.
    In the direction of G.E. Lozin-Lozinsky, our work was headed by V.D. Filatchenkov, an outstanding scientist. Now his son Zam. Director General of RIRV JSC. For the ISS "Buran" I proposed to place the navigation and landing antennas not in the nose, but on the sides. And put two antennas. This allowed us to provide transmission and reception of signals even in the presence of plasma during the descent. Then, after I was transferred to Moscow to the USSR MINRADIOPROM (6GU), I was responsible for the entire ISS program from my ministry. Was a member of the State Commission for the launch of the ISS. Those were glorious times. In NII-33 (JSC "VNIIRA") there are practically no performers of this outstanding work left. I have the honor.
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 10: 53 New
      +2
      Well Semen-Semenovich ...
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4laH4zZgYvA
    2. Nik_One
      Nik_One 21 November 2015 10: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: midshipman
      I began to work in this area since 1964 after defending a dissertation (candidate).

      You must be at least 76 years old ...
      1. atalef
        atalef 21 November 2015 11: 14 New
        +1
        Quote: Nik_One
        Quote: midshipman
        I began to work in this area since 1964 after defending a dissertation (candidate).

        You must be at least 76 years old ...

        Yes, no less.
        It is strange then why nickname is MICHMAN?
        1. WUA 518
          WUA 518 21 November 2015 11: 25 New
          +6
          Quote: atalef
          Yes, no less.
          It is strange then why nickname is MICHMAN?

          Well, judging by the profile: Yury G. Shatrakov, Doctor of Technical Sciences, Professor, Honored Scientist of the Russian Federation, member of the Russian Academy of Technological Sciences.
          Since 1963 he worked at NII-33, since 1966 he was the chief designer of multifunctional antenna-feeder aircraft systems, highly interference-protected command radio control lines for fighter-interceptor guidance, with his participation and scientific guidance, radio engineering systems for automatic landing of aircraft were created, including on aircraft carriers ships 1979 - transferred to Moscow to the State Department of the Ministry of Radio Industry, chief engineer, was responsible for the automation of air traffic control, was a member of the Commission for the launch of the Buran orbital ship, was responsible for the creation of color televisions with a large screen; 1989 - Academy of Defense Industries (since 1999 - Moscow Acad. Labor Market and Information Technology), Rector; The author of new scientific directions in the field of radio engineering systems, prepared more than 25 candidates and doctors of sciences.
          1. atalef
            atalef 21 November 2015 11: 31 New
            +5
            Quote: WUA 518
            judging by the profile: Shatrakov Yuri Grigoryevich, Doctor of Technical Sciences, Professor, Honored Scientist of the Russian Federation, member of the Russian Academy of Technological Sciences.

            If this is really this person, then nothing but respect can cause hi
      2. midshipman
        midshipman 21 November 2015 12: 37 New
        13
        So for sure, 77 years old. Five years ago, he returned to St. Petersburg from Moscow, for family reasons. I work as the Scientific Secretary in one of the research institutes, which were previously subordinate to me, I head one dissertation council, I am a member of another. I head the basic department at the University, a member of the editorial boards of a number of journals. In recent years he has published more than 10 monographs, textbooks, and received many patents for inventions. I offer many defense systems, I often visit the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. I publish a lot of fiction. I have the honor.
        1. atalef
          atalef 21 November 2015 12: 41 New
          +3
          Quote: midshipman
          So for sure, 77 years old. Five years ago, he returned to St. Petersburg from Moscow, for family reasons. I work as the Scientific Secretary in one of the research institutes, which were previously subordinate to me, I head one dissertation council, I am a member of another. I head the basic department at the University, a member of the editorial boards of a number of journals. In recent years he has published more than 10 monographs, textbooks, and received many patents for inventions. I offer many defense systems, I often visit the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. I publish a lot of fiction. I have the honor.

          Regards to you hi
          1. Throw
            Throw 21 November 2015 17: 50 New
            +2
            Well, finally there is a real Professor! wink hi
  • Dikson
    Dikson 21 November 2015 11: 16 New
    +1
    "having entered a given orbit, I made two circles around the Earth ..." - I read up to this point and threw it ... the author should at least have found out before writing an article that circling the globe in an orbit is called a revolution .... My friend was on launch of "Buran" - served at that time. He said that compared to the launch of Energia, all the other launches at which he was present, were like New Year's crackers compared to the Grad salvo ...
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 11: 29 New
      +1
      I cut circles at the latitude of Peter or Soskva, inappropriately ... or strictly along the Pulkovo meridian. winked
  • noWAR
    noWAR 21 November 2015 11: 44 New
    0
    Would you like to listen to the head of the transport department (Baikonur) is he in the hall? fellow Honestly, the argument about Buran is purely in the past tense and skeptical. Sorry. Baikonur is coming - the order is over. laughing
  • veksha50
    veksha50 21 November 2015 13: 24 New
    0
    " We voluntarily ceded US leadership ..."...

    A controversial issue ... If everything was so good and economically viable with the Shuttles, then why was this program curtailed in the USA ???

    To find out the true reason, and not in the way they are announced in the media ...

    PS And now latently slipping information about conversations in the government about the resumption of the "Buran" program ... And immediately a lot of questions arise - in what capacity, by what forces and means ??? For what purpose - I am not asking a question ... Having such a "fighter" one can solve many questions in space ...
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 21 November 2015 13: 33 New
      +1
      When did they turn it off?

      It’s not very correct to spend 2 days out of 9 in space on the inspection of the bottom on which the ice flakes during removal.
      Or try to "land" one shuttle with a pierce knowing in advance what will happen, and hope for something, or forget that part of the first one before the start turned into an iceberg altogether, because someone was lazy to drain the fuel and oxidizer - so they came, looked, walked under him with crowbars, took pictures ...
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 21 November 2015 13: 59 New
    +1
    I consider the creation of "Buran" a labor feat of Soviet scientists, engineers and workers. The bitterness at the news of the closure of this project is comparable to the feeling when Mir was drowned. On "VO" there was a series of photos about the state of the hangar, where the "Buran" and its layout are.
    "We do not regret what we have, having lost, we cry."
    With respect and good health, Shatrakov Yu.G.
  • Old26
    Old26 21 November 2015 14: 01 New
    +2
    Quote: RoninO
    Do not judge by their appearance ... Our energy flew by itself, but shuttle tanks cannot, a snowstorm without a crew wrote turns and a shuttle?

    If the machines have different purposes, will they be completely alike? They could not fly. I have KAMAZ, you have a Gazelle. It is necessary to transfer 4 tons of cargo. Can you gazelle? so here. The Americans did not set themselves the task of launching something with the help of a tank and 2 TTU except the Shuttle.

    Quote: SectaHaki
    Why did they get that there were no loads under it? He was better already

    So what is better? And loads, alas, were not.

    Quote: atalef
    Stickers?

    Yeah laughing

    Quote: atalef
    Quote: Old26that the BURAN is an ABSOLUTE COPY of the Shuttle, but its first studies had exactly the same scheme as the shuttle. What is the same?

    The same layout as the shuttle. Three engines, like a shuttle. Mass and overall characteristics are very close. And Alexander, a big request. if you quote - take the phrase in full. and then the meaning is completely different. It’s written to me: Nobody claims that BURAN is an absolute copy of the Shuttle, but you did not quote part of the phrase - ... no one claims and the meaning immediately became completely different

    Quote: atalef
    The start-up schemes differ fundamentally, do you understand the word fundamentally? It is impossible to redo the road, these parameters are laid down at the initial stage

    And I did not say that "on the way", but the TTZ for the same "Energy" also changed. I honestly do not understand the subject of our dispute. We both do not claim that the shuttle and Buran were an absolute copy, we do not claim that the launch scheme is different, we do not claim that you said that Buran is a copy of Columbia and that both systems are identical in concept, but different in design. In the same way I am not claiming that the shuttle was either purely military or purely civilian. He combined both of these segments
  • Robert Nevsky
    Robert Nevsky 21 November 2015 14: 02 New
    +1
    Oh, what a power lost ...
  • Old26
    Old26 21 November 2015 14: 12 New
    +2
    Quote: atalef
    I was part of the shift on duty both at the first (unsuccessful) and at the second (successful) start.

    I envy. And I flew on a business trip 10 days after the second attempt
  • Old26
    Old26 21 November 2015 14: 16 New
    0
    Quote: veksha50
    A moot point ... If everything was so good and economically viable with the Shuttles, then why was this program curtailed in the US ??? To find out the true reason, and not the way it was announced in the media ...

    You could say that. The economic effect they were counting on did not work out for them. According to their plans, the launch was supposed to go every week, that is, 52 a year. But it did not grow together. The inter-flight period was too long. Therefore, the cost of withdrawal was quite large, but nevertheless there were situations when there was no other option - only the shuttle
  • Old26
    Old26 21 November 2015 14: 16 New
    0
    Quote: veksha50
    A moot point ... If everything was so good and economically viable with the Shuttles, then why was this program curtailed in the US ??? To find out the true reason, and not the way it was announced in the media ...

    You could say that. The economic effect they were counting on did not work out for them. According to their plans, the launch was supposed to go every week, that is, 52 a year. But it did not grow together. The inter-flight period was too long. Therefore, the cost of withdrawal was quite large, but nevertheless there were situations when there was no other option - only the shuttle
  • Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 21 November 2015 14: 48 New
    +3
    And before Buran, they launched the Polyus, aka Skif-DM, aka 17F19DM, aka a mock laser orbital combat platform. While there was 100% of the chatter in the US about laser orbital weapons, 100% of the case ended up in the USSR.
    As they say, greetings to the Gorbachev-wrecked USSR.
  • Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 21 November 2015 15: 20 New
    0
    Gorbachev sought political asylum in the United States; Yeltsin grabbed the squirrel ... laughing

    ... Soviet people fly to Mars.
    1. IAlex
      IAlex 22 November 2015 16: 43 New
      0
      Do you think a branch of the USSR still exists on Mars?
  • SOB
    SOB 21 November 2015 15: 23 New
    +1
    All this is sad. In the sense that we are so naive and trusting. It is almost impossible to defeat us in open battle, but it is likely to deceive, bribe, implement.
  • Ostrovnoy
    Ostrovnoy 21 November 2015 15: 31 New
    +3
    such things could only happen in the Soviet Union, now science is the foundation of capital, which puts enrichment by any means above all, no matter what. Therefore, in the near future we will not see such programs
  • Diviz
    Diviz 21 November 2015 19: 44 New
    0
    The last flight of the USSR. And then offline Gagarins transferred remained Gorbachev.
  • Gardener91
    Gardener91 21 November 2015 23: 41 New
    0
    Buran from orbit could deliver 20 !!! tons of cargo, three controllable degrees of position, and the parallel development of "Spiral", I hope, is still in the current perspective.
  • Izotovp
    Izotovp 22 November 2015 00: 50 New
    +1
    Much and not only that. There were also new, larger modules of automatic plants in the projects, they built a pier for Buran in orbit. But the USSR was destroyed, Mir-2 was not withdrawn, the commercial load almost disappeared, and without it, Buran is not needed.
    Energy itself was a good carrier, while the next stage - Burlak - should have been even more powerful, but our "friends" explained to us that we did not need it.
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 22 November 2015 13: 41 New
      +1
      and what do we ourselves don’t need ourselves ... only the Americans didn’t explain it but the television and the press and not in English
  • Bob
    Bob 22 November 2015 16: 17 New
    0
    "The fate of the already built" Burans "turned out to be sad. Two of them practically rotted at" Baikonur ", unfinished" shuttles "and test samples were either sold for a cheap price for the cordon, or were stolen in detail. very lucky "

    It only seemed to me that the article did not indicate the final of the same Buran that had been in orbit ?!
    Photo: collapsed floors of the workshop buried the top of the Soviet space program. The collapse occurred on May 12, 2002.
  • Bob
    Bob 22 November 2015 16: 22 New
    +1
    Here is another photo of the ditched "Buran"
    I have no words. Heart bleeds.
  • Izotovp
    Izotovp 22 November 2015 16: 35 New
    0
    We rolled back around 1970: neither our own orbital station, nor a coherent program where and how to move in space, nor our scientific programs in deep space ..
  • IAlex
    IAlex 22 November 2015 16: 39 New
    -3
    One feels the article smacks of wild patriotism ...

    If there were enough sausages and groceries in the USSR in the 80s, it would not have collapsed, but it would have collapsed due to one-time projects in which the satellite, which was launched by the satellite, needed an expensive one-time rocket, which the ship itself was a ballast because on such a rocket it would be possible to fly into space a whole station ...

    Rare rarity, that the task was completed efficiently and most importantly promisingly - thanks and goodies to developers. And the fact that TK itself was idiotic, thanks to Soviet economists and managers for whom: the economy should have been economical, and not expedient for ensuring the production and consumption of goods. Moreover, they were thrown from dope from guns to missiles, from potatoes to corn, or from electronics to such shit ...

    By the way, having thrashed such grandmothers, the people finally got a wooden model at the All-Russian Exhibition Center ... That's what I understand the Wishlist's victory over common sense, by the type: We wanted so much to get the result that we wondered: "Can we" when it was necessary to ask the question "Is it necessary" ...

    For the headstock of such a program, it would be possible not only to develop satellite-cellular communications throughout the country and push for export, but also to build a satellite communications group ...
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 23 November 2015 06: 37 New
      +1
      on the contrary, more thoughtful than a shuttle.

      "Energia" could put into orbit itself, but the TTU and the suspension tank of the Shuttle system, no - the shuttle was on the contrary ballast.
      in subsequent launches on Energy, nothing would have disappeared except the tanks of the second stage.
      "Buran" was needed only to carry out serious and specific for the MCC assignments and not for stupid "removal" of cargo, when in most cases the Shuttle took out mainly itself ...
  • Bob
    Bob 22 November 2015 16: 47 New
    +1
    Unfortunately, in history there are always people who are ready to "warm their hands" on other people's bones. So it happened in this case: from reliable sources at Baikonur it is known that three dummy copies of the RD-0120 (11D122) oxygen-hydrogen engine:
    - 11D122, serial number 5351231151;
    - 11D122, serial number 5351231154;
    - 11D122, serial number 5351231153;
    those under the ruined roof were sold to China. To do this, each of the engines was carefully cut along the technological joint into two parts (nozzle and turbo pump unit). For fans of the homeland sale, the fall of the MIC's roof played "into the hands", allowing with one stroke to write off everything that was under the collapsed roof for scrap. However, photographs indicate that the condition of the engines after the roof fell down remained quite suitable for qualifying this sale as paid espionage in favor of another state. Judge for yourself:
  • Cat man null
    Cat man null 22 November 2015 16: 54 New
    -1
    How many people, so many, of course, and opinions, but:

    1. I recommend an article. The article is sensible, and there are many references to other, also sensible, articles.
    Here it is: http://www.buran.ru/htm/spirit.htm

    2. "Buran" was not going to be used in the national economy. The system was intended exclusively for military use.

    Something like this..
    1. Secta haki
      Secta haki 23 November 2015 06: 27 New
      +1
      experts forgot to draw wings ...
    2. b79w
      b79w 25 November 2015 13: 38 New
      +1
      "2. Nobody was going to use" Buran "in the national economy. The system was intended exclusively for military use."
      What we are peremptory. Does the phrase "dual-use systems / technologies" mean anything?
      Yes, there were systems for exclusively military purposes, but they were called "Almaz".