Military Review

Check AS "Val"

148
Check AS "Val"



I think people interested in small weapons, have repeatedly heard negative reviews about the VSS “Vintorez” and AS “Val” complexes. They say that they are no good as a combat weapon: tying up and imbalance, a flash when shooting at night and other troubles constantly accompany their unfortunate owners. I heard similar reviews and I. It’s not possible to check in practice whether it is true or not: “Val” and “Vintorez” are auxiliary weapons here, that is, they are not often fired from it, and VSS-ku snipers are not considered to be a sniper weapon.
It would have lived further by rumors, but another conversation on this topic with friends pushed our company into an argument: we shoot hundreds of BSS cartridges at a fast pace, let's see how and what. BCC eventually turned into the AU by chance, and a hundred rounds of ammunition turned into five hundred (plus minus 20 pieces). They shot at the gongs on 75 and 170, the size is somewhere in the head. First single - quick and sighting, then a couple of shops in a long queue. There are no delays, five hits on the far head. Go ahead, the second hundred, the same thing, but already with complications: a clod of earth from above (one of the heard tales heard: “it doesn’t just shoot when dusting”). Works. The comrade went on: turned the outfitted store with a feeder down and generously poeled them on the ground. Everything is working properly, and even Orthodox AK does not always tolerate such tricks.

Then there were dipping in the snow, long lines, and again in the snow. Dipped with a goal and cool, because the haze from the heated PBS did not give an opportunity to aim, and to check one more rumor: “Val” does not work after overheating and cooling, it does not give carbon deposits. Everything worked fine.





Recently I heard, they say, “Val” does not like other people's stores. We took them at random from the box, only five pieces. In the end, they checked by aiming shooting at a distant gong, everything lay down precisely, so that a critical loss of accuracy was not noticed. As well as loss of penetrability when shooting wood. The SP-5 bullets entered a live pine tree about five centimeters, which will completely allow them to fulfill their mission: defeat an unprotected target.
Once again we did not set the tasks to disassemble the pros and cons, the main thing was to see for ourselves that everything works and works normally, which we achieved.
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148 comments
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  1. nirutha
    nirutha 22 November 2015 06: 11
    20
    helpful information.
    1. hedgehog in the fog
      hedgehog in the fog 22 November 2015 07: 42
      20
      I had a chance to shoot from 1a9 in the army 91 time on shooting, a noble thing is no worse than a screw cutter, this is a weapon for special operations, and you have requirements for them, like aka 47.
      1. datur
        datur 22 November 2015 20: 21
        +7
        lucky !!!! and we were only given the paws to hold these devices in our paws, and click idle !!!! and they didn’t give the cartridges, it hurts dear !!!! wink but even so sea impressions !!!! apparatus THING !!!
        1. Duke
          Duke 24 November 2015 20: 40
          0
          Special silent automatic machine AS "Val" (Russia)
          Caliber: 9x39 mm (SP-5, SP-6)
          Length: 875/615 mm (butt unfolded / folded)
          Barrel length: 200 mm (without silencer)
          Aim range: 400 m
          Weight: 2,5 kg without magazine
          Magazine capacity: 10 or 20 cartridges
          The special machine gun (AS) “Val” was created at the Central Research Institute of Precision Engineering (TsNIITOCHMASH) under the leadership of P. Serdyukov in the second half of the 1980s, and was intended for arming various special forces of the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR. The machine was created on the basis of a special 9mm VSS Vintorez sniper rifle within the framework of a single 9mm silent complex of special-purpose weapons. The AU entered service with the USSR Armed Forces and the Ministry of Internal Affairs in the late 1980s along with a specially developed for it 9mm SP-6 subsonic cartridge with an armor-piercing bullet, and to date, along with the VSS, it is used in the Armed Forces and structures of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB of Russia. The machine allows effective fire at a range of up to 400 meters against the enemy in modern personal protective equipment (body armor, helmets), with a low level of unmasking factors (sound and flame of a shot). Such characteristics are achieved through the use of both specially developed 9mm rounds with a heavy subsonic bullet, and a shot silencer integrated into the weapon design. Thanks to these solutions, the sound pressure level of a shot from a speaker is about 130 dB, at the sound level of a small-caliber rifle shot. The armor-piercing bullet of the SP-6 cartridge allows you to hit targets protected by protective equipment of class 3 according to GOST at ranges up to 300-400 meters. It is also possible to use sniper cartridges SP-5 designed for the BCC rifle, but they provide less armor-piercing.
          Automatic weapons are in many ways unique weapons, since in other countries the majority of “silent” systems are created by more or less deep modernization of existing models of army weapons, and not developed from scratch. In combination with armor-piercing cartridges SP-6, “Val” assault rifles provide high firepower and combat effectiveness against opponents in modern personal protective equipment, with a low level of basic unmasking signs.
          AS “Val” assault rifles, as well as VSS “Vintorez” sniper rifles, are serially produced in Tula, at the Tula Arms Plant.
          1. anew
            anew 29 December 2015 01: 42
            -2
            Like, they are no good as a military weapon: sticking and warping, a flash when shooting at night and other troubles constantly accompany their unfortunate owners.

            This is the mechanics. Whether this is so or not, let the arrows find out.
            I will dwell on the ballistics of this "weapon". On wound ballistics. She's totally worthless. Because such a damaging factor as damage to the central nervous system is completely absent. And without this normal hunting (and army, this is a special case of hunting) weapons do not exist. There is simply no such thing in the NORMAL ARMY SHOOTING WORLD. Another soviet bespontovy drink * breathe. Extremely brilliant, of course. Like all other Soviet "rifle creations".
            Therefore, apart from the low volume of the shot, this "weapon", that Vintorez and Val, have no positive qualities. Absent and invented by cunning propagandists. Such a "weapon" is good to pierce pieces of paper on the shooting range. These pieces of paper do not have a central nervous system and they, wounded, cannot get upset and specifically close up in response from a normal weapon. Therefore, these products (I can't call them army weapons) are not for combat. Perhaps for some kind of special operations. I don't know, this is no longer the same army as the army.
            It is not clear only what prevented us from making a normal high-quality weapon of low volume? Although, there must have been some "reasons" of their own. These "reasons" were always in the USSR, but there was no normal army small arms. Better the opposite.
      2. gross kaput
        gross kaput 23 November 2015 21: 19
        +1
        In Belarus - nude-nude laughing
    2. Juborg
      Juborg 22 November 2015 13: 30
      29
      In addition to crooked hands, any weapon also needs a brain (yes, yes, what they think!). BCC and AC, great examples, and to be honest I have not heard about that criticism told by the author. A great weapon that is still being hunted.
      1. Mooh
        Mooh 22 November 2015 14: 28
        +6
        I have also never heard of the shortcomings described and debunked in the article. I heard that they have trouble with the resource and workmanship, but I did not hold it in my hands, I can’t confirm or refute it.
      2. OlegLex
        OlegLex 23 November 2015 18: 33
        +2
        I haven’t met with such criticism either, the only minus is ammunition, since it is subsonic and, accordingly, special, the weapon is not intended for long battles. Probably from here and all those fables about which the author wrote, apparently at the subconscious level, because of such limitations, they came up with.
        1. goose
          goose 24 November 2015 13: 47
          0
          Quote: OlegLex
          I haven’t met with such criticism either, the only minus is ammunition, since it is subsonic and, accordingly, special, the weapon is not intended for long battles. Probably from here and all those fables about which the author wrote, apparently at the subconscious level, because of such limitations, they came up with.

          I have not heard the same about the problem. The only thing that impedes the introduction of a very massive - the cost of cartridges and, accordingly, the power for their release. But still not Lapua Magnum. Enough for special forces and intelligence.
          1. Basarev
            Basarev 24 November 2015 15: 22
            0
            I didn’t hear such stories about Val and Vintorez, but there are a lot of stories about GS-18: what it cuts fingers, the workmanship is crap, and it’s extremely expensive.
            Yes, and he is ugly ...
    3. ksan
      ksan 25 November 2015 00: 04
      +1
      nirutha RU November 22, 2015 06:11
      helpful information.
      I didn’t shoot a lot with BCC, only in training as a familiarization, the device is good and I have never heard bad reviews about it, about which the author writes. hi
  2. region58
    region58 22 November 2015 06: 27
    68
    Rumors of everyone are always immeasurable. Some shout that from the "Kalash" a squirrel will get into the eye 500 meters away, others that it is impossible to get an elephant in the ass from the SVD from 50 meters. True, both of them held weapons only in computer shooters. And a professional will overwhelm any of them even from the squeak, and he also knows that our weapon, although very reliable, but it is necessary to clean and lubricate it.
    1. hedgehog in the fog
      hedgehog in the fog 22 November 2015 07: 47
      18
      I will not say for the squirrel in the eye, but from ax 74, a well-targeted collimator, from 450 to the growth target lie in the head 4 out of 5,
      1. vostok68
        vostok68 22 November 2015 09: 00
        14
        The key is "well shot"! Well, the collimator sight will not be superfluous! I fully support you!
        1. KBR109
          KBR109 22 November 2015 09: 27
          +8
          Repeatedly shot at the growth without any collimators at 600m. Automatic (AK-74), however, personally shot. 2 out of 5 (bursts) the target is hit.
          1. vostok68
            vostok68 22 November 2015 09: 42
            10
            "True, personally shot" - I emphasize again! It should be! So that myths about the superiority of some Western crossbows are not born!
            1. gross kaput
              gross kaput 23 November 2015 21: 38
              15
              Have already got the arrows from the sofa into the monitor - "personally targeted collimator" is certainly strong - and at what distance may I find out? 450 meters? For sofa shooters, it will probably be a revelation that, unlike a conventional AK mechanical sight or PSO type optics, quick range corrections are not provided in kaliki, therefore they are usually nailed to one fixed range, which is the most advantageous in the user's opinion (usually 100 meters). Especially for the hedgehog - after work, I took a specially Belarusian PC-A, a wide, well-lit avenue passes by my side, I found the landmarks I needed in google map and went out to look - so the maximum range at which PC-A allows aiming at the head target is 150 m, at a height of 300m (it completely overlaps, but you can still get there somewhere) by 450 meters, the mark completely hides the figure of a tall man much higher than a standard growth target, even taking into account the shaking, so even zeroing "under the feet" of a tall figure at exactly 450 m will not allow not just hitting her in the head but will give worse results than with conventional mechanics. So you either cut your meters down to real or stop telling stories.
            2. jogin
              jogin 25 November 2015 08: 51
              +2
              Quote: vostok68
              That myths about the superiority of some Western gunshots would not be born!

              Which ones, do not specify? And in comparison with what?
              Yes, there you go. Defeat a target and destroy a target are two different things. For army weapons (a type of hunting), the second indicator is more important. For sports weapons, first.
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 23 November 2015 12: 08
            +8
            "Repeatedly shot at a height without any collimators at 600m" ////

            And how did you manage? fellow Already somewhere around 500 m the front sight is larger than the target,
            obscures the target ...

            Our militants are more realistic: with more than 150 m ambush with Kalash
            never satisfied. If more, they didn’t open fire.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. cast iron
            cast iron 23 November 2015 23: 30
            +7
            Tell grandmothers and young girls tales about 600m from the "Kalash".
          5. nicolay338
            nicolay338 24 November 2015 12: 03
            +2
            Nichrome yourself ... Do you have built-in optics in your eye? belay I’m afraid for 600 meters and I won’t see my head. And you have it like that. From the open bar, a queue for 600 m, 2 out of 5 in the head. What can I say - top-class pros smile
            1. goose
              goose 24 November 2015 13: 51
              0
              Quote: nicolay338
              Nichrome yourself ... Do you have built-in optics in your eye? I’m afraid for 600 meters and I won’t see my head. And you have it like that. From the open bar, a queue for 600 m, 2 out of 5 in the head. What can I say - top-class pros

              What nonsense? From the AK-74, shooting at 400 m is quite normal with a regular sight without any collimator. At 600 m it’s different, of course, just not all the bullets in the stomach will go away, but will be all over the target. Well, what's the difference the target will be hit. On AK-47, the same result will take longer than on AK-74, but it will be achieved. Especially normal, if RPK-74, it has a heaped and heavy barrel.
          6. ksan
            ksan 24 November 2015 23: 48
            +3
            KBR109 (2) SU November 22, 2015 09:27 ↑
            Repeatedly shot at the growth without any collimators at 600m. Automatic (AK-74), however, personally shot. 2 out of 5 (bursts) the target is hit.
            I will not argue that you got to 600 from Kalash 2 out of 5, but this is rather a case and not a pattern. With Kalash you can’t aim fire at 600m. It’s like from a cannon on sparrows - let it fall into someone, and from Kalash at 600m. If you let go of a demonstration or infantry column, you might kill someone. Respectfully, sergeant reconnaissance company 1st class specialist. ORR 86 - 88 UGV. soldier
          7. jogin
            jogin 25 November 2015 08: 56
            +1
            Quote: KBR109
            Repeatedly shot at the growth without any collimators at 600m

            Apparently you are a mutant. Ordinary people on an open sight beyond 400 m will not be able to aim.
        2. Azitral
          Azitral 22 November 2015 12: 40
          +5
          It's still a sniper result. Shooting from AK is a special discipline, very different from shooting from SVD or "Vintorez".
      2. avt
        avt 22 November 2015 09: 44
        15
        Quote: hedgehog in the fog
        I won’t say for the squirrel in the eye,

        Nope! Not this way ! It should be like in "Gorodok" - I always get into the eye. I can't get into a squirrel. laughing The only thing I heard about him - in the first models, the receiver cover is supposedly liquid. Probably someone hiked nuts on the armor with her. wassat
        1. Razvedka_Boem
          Razvedka_Boem 22 November 2015 20: 55
          +1
          Not liquid, but when shooting from the grenade launcher on the ak74 there were problems.
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 23 November 2015 22: 29
          +2
          Quote: avt
          Nope! Not this way ! It should be like in “Gorodok” - I always get into the eye. I can't get into a squirrel. The only thing I've heard about it is that the first models have a liquid receiver cover. Probably someone stabbed the nuts on the armor with it.

          Now it seems they have tested Heather (SR-2M) ...

          They say a good machine.
          1. gross kaput
            gross kaput 23 November 2015 22: 31
            +2
            about ten years ago, well, maybe for someone it is now.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 23 November 2015 22: 36
              +2
              Quote: gross kaput
              about ten years ago, well, maybe for someone it is now.

              You are right, it was developed in the 99th ... but we started talking about it quite recently ... hi
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. NEXUS
                NEXUS 24 November 2015 00: 04
                +3
                Quote: NEXUS
                You are right, it was developed in the 99th ... but we started talking about it quite recently ...

                Here is a film about some examples of Russian small arms ... an entertaining video. Although, I think nothing is new for some.
      3. adept666
        adept666 22 November 2015 18: 57
        0
        I will not say for the squirrel in the eye, but from ax 74, a well-targeted collimator, from 450 to the growth target lie in the head 4 out of 5,
        Did you beat counter strike? laughing
      4. OlegLex
        OlegLex 23 November 2015 19: 00
        +2
        In the eye of the squirrel, I think it’s an accident, especially when you consider that it is not possible to confirm this to the author, it’s not possible after such a hit from a poor squirrel if the tail remains. But they sent me to a cadet life when I was sent to district competitions to shoot after standing up and tearing a shovel with three triples from two hundred meters. But with 450 in the growth target in the head, this is shamanism. At one time, the SVD was invented for combat contact at precisely this distance. However, I’ll honestly say that I didn’t shoot with the AK-74 with a collimator sight, only when I studied I had to shoot with the 12 go-ahead and with diopter and with the collimator, but you land one in three meters from a lying position, so there’s weight and descent so not surprising
      5. ksan
        ksan 24 November 2015 23: 51
        0
        Something like a fairy tale "Ax 74, well-aimed kolyimator, from 450 to the growth target to lie in the head 4 out of 5" During two years of service in RR, 3 trunks by resource were changed, 1 class by service, but with 450m and even to the head .. wassat
    2. Azitral
      Azitral 22 November 2015 12: 38
      +8
      "Val" did not hold in his hands, I can not say anything. "Vintorez" is extremely accurate up to 400 meters, it couldn't be better. Further - you need to switch to another weapon. From the AK, with all due respect, for 500 meters, not just in the eye, but in the squirrel itself, S.K.M. himself would not have gotten, although in the part of Kalashnikov's machines, not just a master, but straight still a grandmaster. He won all-Union competitions during the ona.
      1. Lord of Wrath
        Lord of Wrath 22 November 2015 17: 12
        +5
        Quote: Azitral
        Vintorez is extremely accurate up to 400 meters,

        How accurate is it to 200 meters. But 400 is the ultimate shooting distance
    3. Disant
      Disant 22 November 2015 15: 40
      +3
      here it’s not a matter of cleaning and lubrication - MoON correctly heard that the resource is small. The author in the article shoots 5 hundred rounds of Special Weapon ammunition, without sparing it. This is a lot. This is not a Kalash, in which the muzzle, the chamber for removing powder gases and the bolt frame in red and fixed scab, but he continues to thresh. This is a violin, and you need to be able to play it.
      then the owner of the weapon will hammer out of it a couple of times 500 rounds at a time and problems will begin, although he will lick it like a cat ... AS (BCC) is very light and compact, but for this they paid their price - a resource.
      To the author - go take a look at the AC (BCC) resource, I think (I know!), You will be surprised.
      Songs about poking, skewing, delays - the absolute truth.


      For me - that’s how it is necessary to attach good spare parts to each special machine gun (rifle), mufflers as consumables (as they are pouring), put into use a shot card.
      1. Whitesnow
        Whitesnow 22 November 2015 21: 18
        +1
        It has long been. I don’t remember everything about spare parts, but I had a little book for accounting for shots for OTs-14. And I don’t remember about the resource: 5000 or just 500 shots. But certainly not enough. And the maximum aiming range was 200, although a confident 100.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. jogin
      jogin 25 November 2015 08: 48
      0
      Quote: region58
      A professional will flood any of them even out of squeak

      The elephant will not fill up. TTX squeaked will not allow. Each animal relies weapons of its own format. You can do more. Less is impossible.
  3. La-5
    La-5 22 November 2015 06: 38
    +6
    If so, every rumor is checked, then life will not be enough. Such rumors are usually spread either by delitants or krivoruky users. In general, the performance problems of automatic weapons are a consequence of low-quality cartridges, if cartridges G, then the most reliable machine will not shoot.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 22 November 2015 21: 23
      +1
      Quote: La-5
      Such rumors usually spread either amateursor crooked Users.

      I would also add a marriage that they drove in the 90s, and military representatives were either on the side or in proportion ...
  4. Shiva83483
    Shiva83483 22 November 2015 07: 06
    +4
    Quote: region58
    Rumors of everyone are always immeasurable. Some shout that from the "Kalash" a squirrel will get into the eye 500 meters away, others that it is impossible to get an elephant in the ass from the SVD from 50 meters. True, both of them held weapons only in computer shooters. And a professional will overwhelm any of them even from the squeak, and he also knows that our weapon, although very reliable, but it is necessary to clean and lubricate it.

    Well, if those who cry are congenital disease have handshake, then ... who do they dohtur? SHAFT and BCC in the skilled hands in skilled hands, and in the hands of usherny and glass .... well, you understand, for three days: As a result, it will be like a move, and it will break, and cut your hands ... laughing
    1. Victor Demchenko
      Victor Demchenko 22 November 2015 11: 29
      +1
      Quote: Shiva83483
      VAL and VSS nalaman iron in skilled hands, and in the hands of usherny and glass .... well, you understand For a three days: As a result, it will be like a success, and it will break, and cut its hands ...

      not a brother, so for a couple of hours, before the first "piss" (I ask for a pardon) to pee, and then and
      Quote: Shiva83483
      As a result, it will be like a success, and it will break, and cut its hands ...

      wink
    2. Azitral
      Azitral 22 November 2015 12: 42
      0
      It is correct to write: "washed out".
  5. dmi3
    dmi3 22 November 2015 07: 25
    -16 qualifying.
    The article is nothing to talk about the unreliability of weapons for special forces is like gossiping about youth at the entrance. There is a huge amount of information about this weapon in nete, so there is a minus for debunking gossip!
    1. Manul
      Manul 22 November 2015 23: 15
      +2
      Quote: dmi3
      The article is not about anything

      Not a bad debut. Apparently you don’t expect to hold back.
      By the way, the article pleased me very much. And it was a very interesting topic, and we were already tired of a little discussion about cruise missiles. The evening just disappeared today - I read out interesting discussions of interesting articles. I did not expect it from Sunday.
  6. Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack 22 November 2015 07: 43
    +9
    I did not experience problems with the reliability of the screw cutter .......... just care is needed like with any weapon.
  7. zadorin1974
    zadorin1974 22 November 2015 07: 55
    14
    I won’t say anything smart at the expense of BCC and AC, I held it a little bit in my hands and told me to use it. If honestly, for me, the AKSU is somehow dearer (AK-105 is your personal story for me). And at the expense of tales, a personal example: with PM the tests were handed over through liquid currency (more than half flew even where but not at the target) the foreman put a bold cross on me, respectively, and I had the opinion that you could only shoot from Makar. And then we bought the PMM for armament, at the very first firing fulfilled the standard! It turns out that the business was in an uncomfortable handle (the PM dangled in the palm of the hand, the increased handle of the PMM sat like a glove). Here are the main tales and do not arise from good or bad weapons, but from the fact that this weapon does not suit you.
    1. Azitral
      Azitral 22 November 2015 12: 44
      +2
      As for "105" I envy with black envy.
    2. Whitesnow
      Whitesnow 22 November 2015 21: 21
      +3
      Most likely you did not catch the point. Not the convenience of the handle, but the degree of wear of the barrel.
      1. BARKHAN
        BARKHAN 22 November 2015 22: 37
        +7
        The bulk of the wear on the barrels is precisely in the improper cleaning of the weapon, and not in the shooting ... if the commanders are stupid or do not know themselves, then the soldiers use ramrods to cut the muzzle, so that sometimes quite decent barrels are lost for two calls by "diligent" cleaning .. ...
        The same thing with the PM, with its regular and shot problems should not be on the test 25 meters.
        I often come across shooters with "extensive" experience who have no idea about external ballistics ... and when asked about the table of exceedances they make big eyes ...
        So they do not bother firing a direct shot ... well, then the lottery ...
        P.S. A direct shot is a shot at a distance at which the height of the path of the bullet does not exceed the height of the target ...
        1. zadorin1974
          zadorin1974 22 November 2015 23: 14
          +1
          So we had completely different tasks. Have you ever seen the infantry training of the teaching staff, collectors and SG groups of departmental subordination?laughing Just a straight shot.
      2. zadorin1974
        zadorin1974 22 November 2015 23: 08
        +1
        Yes, you really didn’t grasp the essence, each test passed from his own (in the SG you won’t shoot, with all the exercises and tests, you hit a maximum of a thousand), and on the wave, his sight was knocked down, tried with several, the result was not happy. the unit from which to get is equated to a roulette - "Cedar". And in the case of PMM in comparison with Makar, a masterpiece of ergonomics.
      3. Manul
        Manul 22 November 2015 23: 23
        +1
        Quote: Whitesnow
        Most likely you did not catch the point. Not the convenience of the handle, but the degree of wear of the barrel.

        I do not want to scuffle or offend zadorin1974, but asks for it in my head - the fruits of long workouts finally gave the result lol repeat . I agree with both of your arguments.
      4. gross kaput
        gross kaput 22 November 2015 23: 40
        +2
        Quote: Whitesnow
        Not the convenience of the handle, but the degree of wear of the barrel.

        And how many guns have you personally seen near the PM? A cartridge with low pressure, low lateral load and speed and low steepness of the grooves, so that the barrel lives for a long time and even after 1500-2000 chrome begins to peel off, after five a grid of heat appears, but this does not affect the accuracy. Even with a shot of tens of thousands, when a crack appears on the shutter in the region of the extraction window and a large peening on the "beard", the rifling is still clear and the accuracy is quite decent (one of our sportsmen had an approximate shot before the shutter burst was about 40000 - a very approximate figure for accurately counting it was not possible - and until the very moment the crack appeared, he had no complaints about accuracy with the pistol).
        1. zadorin1974
          zadorin1974 23 November 2015 00: 31
          +4
          I mean too, but from the other end repeat Where has it been seen that the barrels were shot in the department of internal affairs, air traffic police, and various Vedomosti? There’s probably enough open beer (each one) for a tanker.
  8. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 22 November 2015 08: 35
    +2
    Good weapon for your tasks. The main thing is reliable. What the author was convinced from his own experience. And confidence in your weapons in battle is needed, no one argues. And then everyone will hear enough, or you will read.
  9. Karavan-150
    Karavan-150 22 November 2015 09: 28
    +9
    It is immediately explicitly said that this machine is SPECIAL !! That is, not for standard army combat, but for very delicate and specific tasks !! I served in intelligence, we had these beauties.
    For those woodpeckers who don’t know why this is a special machine, I’ll explain - it was created for combat in residential quarters. To do this, he has a silencer and a special cartridge. The presence of a silencer vryatli need to explain to woodpeckers. But about the cartridge will have to:
    If you saw it in the context and if compared with standard rifle cartridges, you might notice that the SP has a bullet to powder charge ratio of almost 1 to 1, and you can also notice that the performance characteristics of conventional army machine guns are several times faster than bullet VALA (and his relatives). The reason is the high likelihood of ricochets of conventional bullets, which can lead to disastrous consequences in residential areas, and since the speed of the bullet is small and the weight is great, the rebound (they can be from any projectile) quickly loses energy. Also, the mass of the bullet plays in favor of using this weapon instead of PP due to kinetic energy, while maintaining penetration at the level of machine guns.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 22 November 2015 10: 08
      23
      Quote: Karavan-150
      For those woodpeckers

      Let's be without rudeness.
      Quote: Karavan-150
      as you may have noticed that on performance characteristics of conventional army assault rifles the speed of a bullet is several times greater than that of VALA (and its relatives). The reason is the high likelihood of ricochets of conventional bullets, which in residential areas can lead to disastrous consequences.

      Oh really? And I, by the simplicity of my soul, thought that the cartridges were made subsonic for acceptable noiselessness. recourse
      1. Karavan-150
        Karavan-150 22 November 2015 10: 19
        +1
        I will accept as sarcasm! And where is rudeness here ?!
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 22 November 2015 10: 26
          11
          Quote: Karavan-150
          And where is rudeness here ?!

          About woodpeckers. hi
          Quote: Karavan-150
          I will accept as sarcasm!

          What does sarcasm have to do with it? You write that the main task that the developers of the cartridge tried to solve is the absence of rebounds, but this is clearly not the case.
    2. Juborg
      Juborg 22 November 2015 15: 44
      +3
      Respected Karavan-150, I did not serve in reconnaissance, but I know for sure that the 9 × 39 mm cartridge (SP-5, SP-6) is not exactly what the AK-74 (5.45) shoots with. Cartridge 9 × 39 mm (SP-5, SP), armor-piercing, the difference between SP-5 and SP-6, in the bullet itself, where SP-6 has an armor-piercing core 2 times larger than that of SP-5. Cartridges from "Kalash" and BCC (VS) are not comparable.
    3. gross kaput
      gross kaput 22 November 2015 23: 55
      14
      For woodpeckers, such as regular couch reconnaissance intelligence officers, I explain that the most important condition for fulfilling a combat mission on enemy territory is the presence of stealth operations, so weapons with small unmasking factors (sound and fire) are being developed for these units. In TTZ on Vintorez, the maximum sighting range of 400 m was laid and initially the penetration of a steel helmet at this range and then the defeat of targets protected by bulletproof vests.
      Quote: Karavan-150
      The reason is the high probability of ricocheting regular bullets

      The reason here is only one - the preservation of sufficient energy at a subsonic speed of the bullet, hence the large mass of 16 grams and a caliber of 9 mm.
      Mister who believes that weapons are developed specifically for a particular theater - you can expand your thought further - AK - for the forest, SVD for the steppe and NSV for the desert, so you are the woodpecker.
      PS I am pinned that in any topic about special weapons, a huge number of "scouts" of "special forces" and other certified cosmonauts are immediately announced.
  10. martin-159
    martin-159 22 November 2015 09: 52
    11
    The speed of the bullet is reduced so that the muffler works. When the speed of the bullet is more audible (330 m / s), the muffler is not effective.
    1. Karavan-150
      Karavan-150 22 November 2015 10: 16
      -24 qualifying.
      Bullet cartridge SP-5 weighing 16 g and "5.45 Bullet weight -3,4 g"
      Since the bullet is 9 mm, long-range penetration is lower than that of 5.45 or 7.62, but the energy of the heavy bullet is such that even if the bulletproof vest is not pierced, the person receives a blow of such strength that does not survive, the chest, the soft-boiled ribs are the main focus. Zhigulenok when hitting such a bullet in the trunk simply unfolds around its axis.
      1. guzik007
        guzik007 22 November 2015 10: 44
        37
        Zhigulenok when hitting such a bullet in the trunk simply unfolds around its axis.
        ------------------------------
        it's Pearl of the week! yapstalom!
      2. sniper
        sniper 22 November 2015 12: 13
        15
        Quote: Karavan-150
        . Zhigulenok when hitting such a bullet in the trunk simply unfolds around its axis.

        I always said that cheating in toys should be in moderation ... Or are you mixed up with a howitzer ??? wassat Even when hit in the trunk, not a bullet, but the exact same Lada, does not always turn the car around ... Tin is shorter. And what toys do you play?
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 22 November 2015 12: 29
          +9
          Quote: sniper
          Even when hit in the trunk of the exact same Lada, it does not always turn the car around ...

          American fighters of the 80s - 90s remember? There, a hit from any pistol led to an explosion in the gas tank, and bumpers, racks, hoods flew out of the shotgun. winked
      3. Azitral
        Azitral 22 November 2015 12: 49
        +6
        You haven’t tried it with a Zhigul, have you? And a 12-gauge "Jacan" won't deploy. And a bullet from a PKV at no distance.
        1. sniper
          sniper 22 November 2015 12: 56
          +7
          Quote: Azitral
          And a 12-gauge "Jacan" won't deploy.

          Duc ... And due to what? The body is assembled from a sheet of 0,7 mm ... Any bullet will pierce it right through and safely fly on ... Just a friend in computer shooters will not play enough ...
          1. Mooh
            Mooh 22 November 2015 14: 21
            +7
            There are nuances. Firstly, the thickness of the sheet in different places is different, secondly, there are various strength elements, and thirdly, inside up to fig upholstery and noise insulation. Accordingly, through lumbago is completely optional. Especially soft hunting bullet. As for the comrade and shooters - I agree.
            1. Manul
              Manul 22 November 2015 23: 31
              +2
              Quote: MooH
              There are nuances. Firstly, the thickness of the sheet in different places is different, secondly, there are various strength elements, and thirdly, inside up to fig upholstery and noise insulation. Accordingly, through lumbago is completely optional. Especially soft hunting bullet. As for the comrade and shooters - I agree.

              If you defend a theory, then you must protect a comrade. Suddenly, a man will bring facts that he works in some kind of special equipment and shot at all kinds of targets (Audi, as I understand it, doesn’t deploy) a lot of rounds of ammunition. And even on real tasks. And you all will sit in a puddle wassat
          2. Manul
            Manul 23 November 2015 01: 50
            0
            Quote: sniper
            Any bullet will pierce it right through and safely fly on ...

            Well, getting stuck in a bullet also has certain chances.
      4. Vladimir 1964
        Vladimir 1964 22 November 2015 17: 11
        +2
        Quote: Karavan-150
        Zhigulenok when hitting such a bullet in the trunk simply unfolds around its axis.


        Exactly, exactly, colleague, in the vertical plane, almost like in the "American Boyvik". yes
      5. BARKHAN
        BARKHAN 22 November 2015 23: 55
        +7
        Do you know why this bullet is so heavy? Yes, because it flies with a subsonic speed, like from a hunting rifle. And it needs weight to maintain destructive power. Subsonic speed is a payment for "noiselessness".
        About Lada is already an RPG. And that is not a fact that will unfold.
      6. gross kaput
        gross kaput 22 November 2015 23: 57
        +2
        Young man you would not be disgraced and would not take a vacant place in the ranks of "real special forces" of which there are already enough here.
        1. BARKHAN
          BARKHAN 23 November 2015 11: 46
          +3
          It’s not clear who you are talking to ... But just in case, I’ll write ... SP-5 and SP-6 bullet speed -280-300M / s. Sound speed-343,3m / s. Sound speed is required to exclude sound from ballistic waves ... It was originally planned to use cartridges 7,62US, but although they corresponded to noiselessness, did not have the necessary accuracy ... And then they decided to create a new cartridge SP-6 and SP-5.
          The history of the creation of this weapon and its ammunition is in the public domain and is not a secret, as there is a huge amount of video shooting from it at different targets. Their penetrative abilities and ballistic characteristics are also well known. I generally don’t understand what is arguing or clever about.
          Optics on standard PSO-1 complexes of half a century ago development.
          1. gross kaput
            gross kaput 23 November 2015 12: 24
            0
            Quote: Barkhan
            It’s not clear who you are contacting

            You simply wedged your post between the Karavan-150 post and my answer, so do not take it personally.
            1. BARKHAN
              BARKHAN 23 November 2015 17: 54
              +8
              I understand. But I did not "wedged in" of my own free will. I answered this masterpiece ... Bullet cartridge SP-5 weighing 16 g and "5.45 Bullet weight -3,4 g"
              Since the bullet is 9 mm, long-range penetration is lower than that of 5.45 or 7.62, but the energy of the heavy bullet is such that even if the bulletproof vest is not pierced, the person receives a blow of such strength that does not survive, the chest, the soft-boiled ribs are the main focus. Zhigulenok when hitting such a bullet in the trunk simply unfolds around its axis.

              But for some reason I was carried below.
              It's just that I communicate with such experts in a day, including on a hunt ... So, a spoon brought down from the SVD at 600 meters is not the top of the limit in stories. Well, but I do not have PSO-1 with me, I offer them a civil replica 6-fold POSP. Look tell them what a human figure looks like at this distance laughing not to mention a spoon.
              Computer games and feature films, in which authors rush from one extreme to another, make a big mess in fragile brains.
              In this regard, I’m very upset by the state’s policy, which does not completely pay attention to the development of shooting sports in the Russian Federation.
              I apologize for importunity hi
      7. Deaddakon
        Deaddakon 23 November 2015 19: 34
        +3
        AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA))))))))))))))))) YES WELL * FUCK)))))
      8. Horn
        Horn 25 November 2015 08: 28
        0
        Quote: Karavan-150
        Bullet cartridge SP-5 weighing 16 g and "5.45 Bullet weight -3,4 g"
        Since the bullet is 9 mm, long-range penetration is lower than that of 5.45 or 7.62, but the energy of the heavy bullet is such that even if the bulletproof vest is not pierced, the person receives a blow of such strength that does not survive, the chest, the soft-boiled ribs are the main focus. Zhigulenok when hitting such a bullet in the trunk simply unfolds around its axis.

        - Yes Yes! And the pseudo-giant is so easily thrown a dozen steps!
      9. Horn
        Horn 25 November 2015 08: 28
        0
        Quote: Karavan-150
        Bullet cartridge SP-5 weighing 16 g and "5.45 Bullet weight -3,4 g"
        Since the bullet is 9 mm, long-range penetration is lower than that of 5.45 or 7.62, but the energy of the heavy bullet is such that even if the bulletproof vest is not pierced, the person receives a blow of such strength that does not survive, the chest, the soft-boiled ribs are the main focus. Zhigulenok when hitting such a bullet in the trunk simply unfolds around its axis.

        - Yes Yes! And the pseudo-giant is so easily thrown a dozen steps!
    2. PSih2097
      PSih2097 22 November 2015 21: 10
      -1
      Quote: martin-159
      At a bullet speed, a more sonic (330m / s) silencer is not effective.

      effective, but for one - two shots ... soldier although I saw homemade products that held up to 10 shots.
      1. gross kaput
        gross kaput 23 November 2015 00: 03
        +4
        Quote: PSih2097
        effective, but for one - two shots ...
        the muffler expands and cools the gases before they enter the atmosphere - the closer the temperature and pressure to atmospheric, the quieter the muzzle wave from the powder gases will be. Only now, the supersonic ammunition has a second source of sound - Have you heard how the fighter goes to supersonic? - cotton is such that glass shakes in houses. A sharp pop is heard with a bullet when switching to supersonic sound; no muffler can cope with this component either home-made or any other - physics however.
        1. BARKHAN
          BARKHAN 23 November 2015 12: 46
          +7
          Here I agree. As if "silent" I put it in quotes yesterday in the commentary. For the noiselessness is conditional. The silencer on these complexes distorts the sound of the shot, and for a person it becomes "indistinct", not allowing to identify the sound of the shot and the location of the shooter.
          Personally, I prefer the SP-4 cartridge, weapons for it and other devices. There is a good video on this subject ...
  11. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 22 November 2015 10: 26
    -1
    I read somewhere about the reception of a sniper, when the enemy special forces are advancing forward and starting to shoot the last soldier from the air force in the back, and so on ... in silence.
    1. Horn
      Horn 25 November 2015 19: 51
      0
      Quote: Zaurbek
      I read somewhere about the reception of a sniper, when the enemy special forces are advancing forward and starting to shoot the last soldier from the air force in the back, and so on ... in silence.

      And where to get the shutter sound? Is this even assuming that the shot itself is completely silent, although this is far from the case? They say to you: only a knife and a noose are completely silent. Even the crossbow and bow make distinctive sounds.
  12. SIMM
    SIMM 22 November 2015 10: 45
    +1
    I don't know where these "rumors" and "negative reviews" come from, but it's not hard to guess ...
    It seems to me that everyone who is at least somehow interested in small arms, already knew what the VSS and VAL are capable of and how reliable they are.
    All this has long been known.
  13. Vega
    Vega 22 November 2015 10: 51
    +6
    Like Vysotsky: "Like flies here and there, there are rumors in the ears ...". Someone compares weapons exclusively on the Internet, someone hates everything domestic, extolling imports, and someone is just an oak tree. Excellent systems, tested.
  14. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 22 November 2015 12: 16
    +3
    The subtle soul of aesthetes does not tolerate anything domestic! love
    They would only smell the roses! love
    1. 2s1122
      2s1122 22 November 2015 13: 35
      +1
      Quote: 16112014nk
      The subtle soul of aesthetes does not tolerate anything domestic! love
      They would only smell the roses! love

      accidentally not those that stick out of the ass laughing
    2. The comment was deleted.
  15. Forest
    Forest 22 November 2015 12: 52
    +5
    The main thing in the weapon is the hands of the shooter. Half of the rumors about bad weapons come from people who before that held nothing more powerful than air. After that, they and the AK-74 have incredible returns, and their foreheads are broken with pistols.
    1. martin-159
      martin-159 22 November 2015 14: 04
      +1
      That's right. My acquaintance with the MP-512 takes more ducks from hunting than others with 12 gauges.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 22 November 2015 14: 34
        +4
        Quote: martin-159
        than others with 12 gauge.

        You have other bad ones if you shoot them with pneuma. yes
      2. BARKHAN
        BARKHAN 23 November 2015 00: 02
        +7
        Your friend Murka is most likely squandered under a more powerful spring, which is a violation of the Criminal Code. And hunting with this type of weapon is prohibited in the Russian Federation. So, that will fly twice.
        You found a very good place to talk about it ... Don’t be stupid.smile
  16. Buran
    Buran 22 November 2015 13: 59
    +3
    flash when shooting at night


    After that I stopped reading, and the photo is offset and plus the article!
  17. Massik
    Massik 22 November 2015 17: 42
    +2
    Somewhere, the hundredth article on a site about weapons under 9x39, it’s not very thick with the development of new calibers.
    1. Razvedka_Boem
      Razvedka_Boem 22 November 2015 21: 09
      +1
      There are developments, but not everyone shines. And with finances so-so .. As for BCC and AU - a good weapon, there are essentially no analogues. Still it’s yours, instead of SVD, which, for all its merits, is now outdated .. There are models that are not inferior to Western counterparts .. but something does not go into series ..
      1. gross kaput
        gross kaput 23 November 2015 00: 04
        +1
        Quote: Razvedka_Boem
        Still yours, instead of SVD, which, for all its merits, is now outdated

        How is it outdated?
        1. Razvedka_Boem
          Razvedka_Boem 23 November 2015 06: 18
          -5
          The optics and the SVD cartridge do not already meet the modern requirements for sniper shooting, when a guaranteed target hit is required at distances of more than 1 km. Of course, there are unique ones who can shoot with SVD at distances of more than 1 km and hit, but for a regular army sniper, and SVD was in every department, without a new cartridge, under a different caliber, such as Lapua Magnum and new, powerful optics, a problem sniper shooting at a distance of over 1 km can not be solved.
          The effective firing range, ensuring guaranteed target destruction, should now be at least 1.5 km, which means a slight increase in caliber, with an acceptable weight of the rifle itself.
          Of course, there are rifles for the 12.7 mm caliber, but they are primarily intended to disable equipment, radar, and other material assets.
          1. gross kaput
            gross kaput 23 November 2015 12: 18
            +8
            Quote: Razvedka_Boem
            Of course, there are unique people who can shoot with a SVD at a distance of over 1 km and hit,

            The 7,62X54 bullet switches to subsonic at 800-900m, at the moment of transition the bullet receives disturbances from the Mach cone that has caught up with it, i.e. You can shoot 1 km from SVD or other sniper weapons at 7,62X54, only the result will not be connected with the quality of the shooter or weapon, but with banal luck.
            The SVD was created as a weapon for a sniper soldier acting as part of his unit, in his interests and in all forms of battle (offensive, defense) and hitting the most threatening targets on the battlefield. But for this, the SVD is made self-loading and even has a bayonet-knife in the kit. According to American terminology, such a shooter is called a Marxman, and the same Yusovites are armed with self-loading or automatic rifles made on the basis of standard ones but with increased accuracy of fire - the United States Marine Corps Designated Marksman Rifle, Mk 14 Mod 14 Enhanced Battle Rifle were created on the basis of M-0, M39 Enhanced Marksman Rifle - based on the M-16: SDM-R, SAM-R, etc.
            The most recent for service in the states was the M110 - a further development of the AR-10 \ SR-25. So the sniper of the infantry squad (Marksman) of the SVD is just right - yes, it can be upgraded, "tune" it needs new optics instead of the old PSO, spit on the unification of production and again return to the 320 rifling step, etc. but there is no point in changing it, but
            Quote: Razvedka_Boem
            The effective firing range, ensuring guaranteed target destruction, should now be at least 1.5 km, which means a slight increase in caliber, with an acceptable weight of the rifle itself.
            Of course there are rifles under the caliber 12.7 mm,

            all this should come to the arsenal of sniper reconnaissance and is not a replacement for the SVD but an armament of another class for arming other combat units.
            1. Razvedka_Boem
              Razvedka_Boem 23 November 2015 16: 47
              +1
              The experience of the American forces in Afghanistan and, in general, their experience of recent local conflicts, showed the insufficient effectiveness of the M14. There were frequent situations when there was fire contact at distances over 800 meters. The terrain and various weather conditions showed the M14 flaws clearly enough to begin the transition to Lapua Magnum. Also, the tactics of using snipers with amers, involves working as a couple. We are just starting to come to this. I don’t know what they’re minus me. I just noted the objective weaknesses of SVD. This rifle, still remains in demand, but in its current form, is suitable only for self-defense forces, but not for the regular army.
              In addition, modern means of electronic intelligence, suggest, if possible, the maximum distance from the enemy.
              The Russian army at this stage has no experience in conducting military operations in open spaces. And there the range of effective firing from SVD is insufficient.
              1. Razvedka_Boem
                Razvedka_Boem 24 November 2015 09: 40
                -1
                I’ll also add that modern, automatic weapons are quite accurate and with optics, can carry out fire missions at distances up to 600 m, that is, in principle, you can refuse a sniper in each compartment. It is more profitable to have a sniper group (2 pairs), as part of a platoon.
                1. jogin
                  jogin 25 November 2015 09: 27
                  0
                  Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                  I’ll also add that modern, automatic weapons are quite accurate and with optics, can carry out fire missions at distances up to 600 m

                  Yeah How can an individual weapon designed for combat at a range of 350-450 m fulfill tasks at a range of 600 m? Hit the target a little. It is necessary to destroy this goal. And here, no sight will help you. A more powerful cartridge can not do.
              2. gross kaput
                gross kaput 24 November 2015 11: 15
                +2
                Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                I don’t know what they’re minus me

                They pass for ignorance of the subject - and quite rightly (by the way, don’t touch me - I minus only boorish posts laughing)
                Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                Also, the tactics of using snipers with amers, involves working as a couple. We are just starting to come to this.

                Once again, for those who do not read other people's posts and then wonder why they are minus - in the US Army, to which you refer, there are also "infantry snipers" - designated marksman and sniper-scouts - sniper. Marksmen act as part of their unit in his interests, in his battle formations, in all forms of battle and hit the most dangerous targetssince the targets quickly appear from different directions and the time to prepare the data also disappears quickly and there is usually no input of corrections, therefore the most widespread firing range for them is from 300 to 400-600 maximum i.e. from the point where shooting from small arms of the squad is already ineffective. They are armed with self-loading or automatic rifles for full-time rifle / machine-gun or machine-gun cartridges, the rest of the equipment is completely identical to the rest of the squad, i.e. perform exactly the same functions as a sniper in the infantry squad of the USSR / RF Armed Forces armed with SVD and occupy exactly the same place in the staff list of the squad. And those brutal guys smeared with makeup in shaggy coveralls crawling in two are sniper-scouts - organizationally they are not part of the company staff and have their own sniper units. The main tasks are reconnaissance and the defeat of particularly important targets at long distances, and in order to prevent their detection, they are forbidden to fire from small or even medium distances. Sniper pairs are given to infantry units only in the form of reinforcement for performing any specific tasks, but even in this case they act not in the unit orders but from independently chosen and prepared positions, usually far beyond the battle lines. Exactly snipers scouts and are armed with magazine rifles under long-range cartridges.
                Those. if you can comprehend all of the above, you will understand that there are two types of snipers in the troops in parallel, each with its own type of weapon and in the form in which it was created - the infantry sniper / Marxman SVD weapon fully meets the requirements and requires modernization (primarily in the new sight ) and not replacements.
                1. Razvedka_Boem
                  Razvedka_Boem 24 November 2015 16: 30
                  -3
                  About Marxists, etc. I know. But the fact that they are still armed with the M14 and its derivatives is already underway. I repeat once again - modern, automatic, small arms equipped with normal optics allow us to achieve a sufficient accuracy of fire for solving fire tasks at distances up to 500-600 m. That is, sniper M14, SVD, in principle, are no longer needed. We need other weapons, more long-range and accurate. And here the sniper in each compartment is redundant. Enough sniper group in the platoon, which may even have 2-3 weapons each for a different range of tasks.
                  And those sniper scouts that you mentioned, organizationally, should be in the reconnaissance platoon of the battalion.
                  1. psiho117
                    psiho117 24 November 2015 23: 32
                    0
                    Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                    modern, automatic, small arms equipped with normal optics, we can achieve a sufficient accuracy of fire for solving fire missions at distances up to 500-600 м.

                    I missed something, and the infantryman did get a railgun into service?
                    No, say, still 5,56mm? Yes, and from a long trunk in the face of M-ki everyone is reluctant, are they shorter to serve?
                    Well then, uncle, you carry absolute bullshit. Moreover, with a clever look.
                    Minus.
                  2. aws4
                    aws4 25 November 2015 00: 18
                    +2
                    I heard how the races the opposite of M-14/21 began to be reduced in the infantry formations of the United States since standard weapons under 5,56 rounds provided almost the same ballistics and accuracy with them at distances of up to 600 meters and the infantry sniper gunner was armed with the same version of the M16 with optics BUT it was in Afghanistan and Iraq that the nuances and disadvantages of this approach were revealed, it turned out that cartridge 7.62 51 was much more suitable for the tasks being solved and m14 / 21 began to be returned and modernized, and besides, new self-charges began to be introduced under this cartridge .... in my opinion even here was an article about it ... in my opinion the amateur SVD is a wonderful army self-loading, but the fact that he needs to change the optics is right, but this is not news, since they came to the USSR in the late 80s and began to replace PSO with PSP but for various reasons this did not happen
              3. psiho117
                psiho117 24 November 2015 23: 22
                +2
                Quote: Razvedka_Boem

                The Russian army at this stage has no experience in conducting military operations in open spaces. And there the range of effective firing from SVD is insufficient.

                Then let's turn to the experience of the army in which it (similar experience) is - to the tactics of the American troops. What do these battle-hardened democracy advocates do if the target is outside the range of destruction of regular weapons?
                Maybe they scornfully discard the regular M4 Carbine, and get grandfather Barrett?
                No? It’s strange.
                Well then maybe they get the poster "We believe in you, Bob!" and shouts support a prudent comrade-in-arms (who listened to mom's advice, and now, with a sense of his own superiority, is aiming at the enemy from his ultra-precise L115A3)?
                Also no. Well, strange, how so? What do these poor fellows do, eh?
                But what we see! Yes! The commander remembered that it was not just that he had the ring of a West Point graduate on his finger, and months of studying statutes and instructions! It is written in black and white - spread out, lie down and ... * fanfare sound * trigger fire support.
                And in the process, you can still comb out the Ma Dews or a grenade launcher with a Hammvi.
                Brilliantly simple, right?

                ... in its current form, suitable only for self-defense forces ...

                Forgive me for my amazing ignorance, but hto are they ?!
      2. zadorin1974
        zadorin1974 23 November 2015 00: 56
        +3
        KMP yusovskoe M-14 does not want to refuse it. SVD is a good apparatus, the problem is in optics (PSO is really outdated) and gross cartridges. The sniper SP is probably still only seen on holidays. But with the special cartridge you can return to sports cutting under 320mm as designed by Dragunov.
        1. bazilio
          bazilio 24 November 2015 13: 04
          0
          I’ll insert my 5 kopecks - you forgot about the SVDK under 9,3x64mm. and indeed you should not expect indiscrimination from self-arduousness as from boltovikov. I agree that SVD already has obsolete optics.
        2. bazilio
          bazilio 24 November 2015 13: 04
          -1
          I’ll insert my 5 kopecks - you forgot about the SVDK under 9,3x64mm. and indeed you should not expect indiscrimination from self-arduousness as from boltovikov. I agree that SVD already has obsolete optics.
          1. Massik
            Massik 24 November 2015 16: 25
            0
            There is nothing to remember about her, under a hunting cartridge who needs it? At that time it was already 8.6x70, while in the neighboring country, there was no need to invent your own.
  18. Gvfrog
    Gvfrog 22 November 2015 22: 05
    +1
    Quote: hedgehog in the fog
    I will not say for the squirrel in the eye, but from ax 74, a well-targeted collimator, from 450 to the growth target lie in the head 4 out of 5,

    I agree it is not necessary to drive the army to the AK personally AKMS 7,62 distance 300 standard sight 80 out of 90 on the same firing a guy with 86 out of 90 shooting discharge. I personally did not hold VALA and VINTOREZA in my hands, but I think this special weapon and handling requires more delicate than AK.
    1. jogin
      jogin 25 November 2015 09: 35
      0
      Quote: GVFrog
      I agree that it is not necessary to drive AKMS personally to AKMS 7,62 distance 300 standard sight 80 out of 90 at the same shooting guy with a shooting range 86 out of 90.

      1. The standard is not less than 400 m. The fact that for the AK 7,62 mm the distance is reduced to 300 m is already a reason to "drive" it.
      2. The distance is reduced for a reason. Further 300 m in the hunt for people (in the army) AK 7,62 mm have nothing to do.
      Conclusion - AK 7,62 mm ersatz army weapons. It looks very similar to a real army weapon. But actually it is not it. On TTX does not reach. It can be successfully used for hunting game, the size is noticeably smaller than a person.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  19. SashOK
    SashOK 22 November 2015 22: 06
    +1
    In the Caucasus, I happened to use the "vortex". In principle, the same shaft and VSS, only without PBS.
    The feelings are not unambiguous. He really wedged when firing, every 5-6 shots, and even powder gases constantly went into the face. Maybe the design of the compensator is so unsuccessful, I do not know.
    As a result, he was forced to abandon the vortex.
  20. SashOK
    SashOK 22 November 2015 22: 13
    +4
    by the way about the "unfolding" Zhigulenka)
    I personally shot the windshield of a 15-ke from PMa moving towards me, managed to hit 4 times, but all the bullets went ricochet, only the stripes on the glass were left.
    I understand that the bullets of the shaft and PMA are not comparable, but the trunk is not glass. Weight Lada about a ton so.
  21. Kim Klimov
    Kim Klimov 22 November 2015 23: 23
    0
    The barrel is cool.
  22. Dam
    Dam 23 November 2015 00: 27
    +1
    In my practice, I had to shoot a little from a screw-cutting in the glorious village of Chicago near Ryazan. Struck by accuracy and very soft feedback. But the biggest impression was the search for spent cartridges for 2 hours in the rain throughout the village. Secret cartridge pancake
  23. SashOK
    SashOK 23 November 2015 00: 41
    +1
    never searched for cartridges, and the cartridge is not secret
    special business yes but never secret
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 23 November 2015 11: 41
      +3
      The secrecy was removed in the period from 1989 (then, by the order of the Ministry of Defense, the first decryption of noiseless PB (6P9), MSP "Groza" (6P24), APB (6P13) to 1993 - showing VSS, AU and PSS based on the US ILC, began.
  24. Droid
    Droid 23 November 2015 17: 41
    +1
    Quote: gross kaput
    spit on the unification of production and again return to the step of rifling 320, etc.

    It is not a matter of unification of production, for 10 years they have been let out in increments of 320 mm and no one has been floating. And then the unpleasant facts were revealed: the results of the firing from the SVD with armor-piercing, tracers and PZ are frankly bad, but she should have fired normally with the whole range of rifle cartridges, and not just the SN and LPS. Because in 73g and began to produce in increments of 240 mm.
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 23 November 2015 22: 58
      +2
      Quote: Droid
      then unpleasant facts were revealed:

      Well, if you really got into such a jungle, then "suddenly" nothing opened the barrel of the SVD was calculated for specific ammunition in order to achieve maximum accuracy about the lack of stabilization of long bullets, of course, knew, and even at the level of calculations. In the early 70s, we revised the range of tasks that a sniper should perform, and if earlier only cartridges with a PS bullet were included in the SVD ammunition, then in 1974 cartridges from B-32 and T-46 were introduced into the SVD c / c and, accordingly, the rifling pitch was changed, although some hint that the economic factor also played a role - since the SVD was staffed in each infantry squad.
      1. Droid
        Droid 23 November 2015 23: 30
        +2
        Well, if you really got into such a jungle, then "suddenly" nothing opened the barrel of the SVD was calculated for specific ammunition in order to achieve maximum accuracy about the lack of stabilization of long bullets, of course, they knew, and even at the level of calculations.


        And nobody seemed to count any bullets except LPS. Because the Nobles writes ...

        In the TSNIITOCHMASH report 1972 years it is written:
        In a letter from 12.07.71 of the year, the Barnaul Machine Tool Plant reported that when testing 7,62 mm rifle cartridges with B-32 and PZ bullets by firing with an SVD rifle at a distance of 200 m, up to 60% of oval holes from B-32 bullets and 100% of the breakdowns of PZ bullets from rifling were found the trunk. In this regard, TsNIITOCHMASH conducted extensive research on the nature of the flight of the LPS, T-46, B-32 and PZ bullets when firing from the SVD rifle and other weapons.
        .
        During various tests in the process of experimental testing and after the adoption of the SVD rifle for service, separate checks were made of the possibility of firing from this rifle with 7,62 mm cartridges with a T-46 tracer bullet.
        .
        However, when firing from SVD at the accuracy of the battle, it was found that individual holes from the T-46 bullets are oval in shape (see report TSNIITOCHMASH from 20.03.1970/XNUMX/XNUMX).
        Verification of the SVD rifle by firing 7,62 mm cartridges with B-32 and PZ bullets, including the stability of the flight of these bullets, was not previously performed at TsNIITOCHMASH.
        1. gross kaput
          gross kaput 24 November 2015 00: 20
          +1
          Quote: Droid
          Because the Nobles writes ...

          Duc noblemen writes about TSNIITOCHMASH, and SVD was developed by Dragunov at factory No. 74 - i.e. Izhmash, so if Dvoryaninoa wrote about Simon’s SHS this could be pulled to this version because it was developed there in KB at Scientific Research Institute 61 — now Tochmash, and the transition to step 320 itself must have been justified before the military and by the manufacturers and, most likely, with calculations with comprehensive tests, including the possibility of using special bullets (it couldn’t be otherwise in those Dorogozin times) - just in those conditions it was considered that the gain in accuracy by an ordinary cartridge outweighs the non-stabilization of special ones, and in the beginning The 70s decided that special bullets are still needed in the SV SVD.
          1. Droid
            Droid 24 November 2015 11: 25
            0
            1. SVD at the mining stage passed preliminary tests at NII-61 in the future TsNIITOCHMASH.

            2. The story with a pitch rifling is as follows:
            - in 1971, the BSZ, when testing cartridges, detects frankly unsatisfactory results when firing from SVD and reports this.
            - In 1972, TSNIITOCHMASH conducted extensive research on this topic and presented the results to GRAU.
            - 12.01.73g GRAU decides to change the pitch of the rifling and conduct comparative tests. Tests were conducted from 15.10.73/14.01.74/XNUMX to XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.
            - after additional checks of the results of the GRAU tests in 1974, it was decided to stop the production of SVD with a pitch of grooves of 320 mm and produce them in increments of 240 mm.

            The question is - if everyone knew everything back in the late 50s and early 60s, then why all these gestures with trials?
            1. gross kaput
              gross kaput 24 November 2015 12: 17
              0
              Quote: Droid
              SVD at the mining stage passed preliminary tests in NII-61 future TsNIITOCHMASH.

              The key word is preliminary, as far as I remember, only two questions were raised - the assessment of accuracy and reliability under normal conditions - the main goal is the selection of structures for further comprehensive tests and recommendations for finalizing the selected structures.
              Quote: Droid
              The question is - if everyone knew everything back in the late 50s and early 60s, then why all these gestures with trials?

              And why was this not known by the 50s? By that time, a domestic weapons school had already fully formed with its own institutes, training grounds and laboratories, for a long time all the components of the weapon were completely mathematically calculated and calculated before manufacturing, the times when Degtyarev for an experienced software company picked up a suitable eye from the box with dozens of different springs had long passed. In general, in the evening I’ll send papers - we’ll try to figure out how and what.
  25. Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 23 November 2015 21: 56
    0
    Everything works properly, and such tricks even the Orthodox AK ...
    is it Orthodox?


    Komenty very interesting))) You are reading))
  26. Bryanskiy_Volk
    Bryanskiy_Volk 24 November 2015 00: 56
    +1
    Who in their right mind would "kill" regular military weapons ??? Is this a factory landfill, or what? Where is the guarantee that tomorrow, after such "experiments", it will not fail in the present case in view of premature deterioration (this is not even touching on the issue of damage to military property from a legal point of view) ??
    And why should 500 MO rounds spent on mischief have the MO budget pay (taxpayers)?
    belay
  27. Wolka
    Wolka 24 November 2015 05: 44
    0
    good cars, plus for the author, and in general these small arms models were developed to solve special problems and designed to conduct close combat, but not to solve combined arms tasks, although the article eloquently says that they can cope with this task as well ...
  28. Alex1977RUS
    Alex1977RUS 24 November 2015 13: 31
    0
    Quote: gross kaput

    PS I am pinned that in any topic about special weapons, a huge number of "scouts" of "special forces" and other certified cosmonauts are immediately announced.

    Well, all the professional special forces, scouts, and other "sea devils", if you believe the books, massively failed, moved, abducted by aliens. And now doing good in the past-future-parallel world-constellation Orion ...
    Hitmanism is generally the main reason for non-combat losses of special forces of the Russian army.
    Apparently, they were completely worthless, who couldn’t overwhelm the Dark Lord and Khrushchev, re-sing Vysotsky, or attach the commander’s turret to the T-34 ...
    Even the Princess Vendian ... in general, to become the Emperor of the Galaxy and to establish industrial delivery to the bins of the Motherland of all sorts of nanonishtyaks are even incapable. What shots - such and comments)))
  29. gross kaput
    gross kaput 24 November 2015 17: 25
    +1
    Quote: Razvedka_Boem
    I repeat once again - modern, automatic, small arms equipped with normal optics allow us to achieve a sufficient accuracy of fire for solving fire missions at distances up to 500-600 m

    In my opinion, you do not understand what you are writing about - until 2003, SDM-R, SAM-R made on the basis of the standard M-16 rifle were the standard rifles of the Marksmen in the US Army and the ILC. Before being drawn into Afghanistan, it seemed that this was quite enough, but the experience of operations in Afghanistan showed that this "modern automatic weapon equipped with normal optics" does not pull at the ranges of Afghanistan and in a hasty order, the Marksmen began to re-equip, first in a fire order, to the warehouse M-21 and M-14 with the optics installed and then on the hastily modified versions -M-14 EBR and others, the Germans also hastily returned the warehouse G3A4 with optics for their "infantry snipers". After the fire was extinguished in the USA and Germany, the Marksmen adopted not bolts under .338 Lapua as a standard weapon, but self-loading based on the far from modern AR-10. - machine gun cartridge 110X28. So before you write, first study the chronology and it turns out that the Westerners realized the role of weapons such as SVD only now and hastily caught up with us.
    1. Razvedka_Boem
      Razvedka_Boem 24 November 2015 22: 10
      -1
      Now, let's take a look at what I wrote and what you say. I wrote that the SVD does not meet the modern requirements of the battle. I wrote that often fire contact in Afghanistan with amers occurred at distances of more than 800 meters. M14, like SVD, you will probably be surprised, it does not provide, at such distances, solutions to tasks and requirements for existing sniper weapons. The adoption of weapons is not under Lapua Magnum .. I hope you have not forgotten about the powerful, western military-industrial complex? Which is now spreading a pretty good G36, for orders for another rifle.
      To be honest, our discussion goes beyond the scope of this commentary. Only war can decide who is right or wrong. I would prefer that all this remain a theoretical debate.
      1. gross kaput
        gross kaput 25 November 2015 13: 15
        +1
        Quote: Razvedka_Boem
        I wrote that often fire contact in Afghanistan with amers occurred at distances of more than 800 meters.

        don’t carry it, and on the other hand, shooting from a rifleman at such a distance will simply be shooting somewhere in that direction, at such ranges completely different means of destruction rule.
        Quote: Razvedka_Boem
        M14, like SVD, you will probably be surprised, it does not provide, at such distances, solutions to tasks and requirements for existing sniper weapons.

        Are you really that tight or are you just kidding? Realize in the end that there are TWO types of "well-aimed shooters" and each with its own tasks and TWO types of sniper weapons, each sharpened for its own task, they do not replace each other but complement each other. For fire impact in battle on targets located at a great distance, other standard company weapons are used - BMP / armored personnel carriers, AGS weapons and large-caliber machine guns, company mortars, as well as aviation and artilrian support. Long-range snipers simply do not "roll" there - targets appear and disappear too quickly, they are in battle formations due to the specifics of weapons, but they are unable to react quickly and adequately to targets (and often just see the target from their position). They have different goals and other specifics, but unfortunately you either cannot or don’t want to realize this.
  30. 2nd 12th
    2nd 12th 24 November 2015 18: 36
    +1
    The AK does not need to "drive".
    I saw a people who from Saigi 5.45 * 39 standing with their hands 10 out of 10 into the chest target at 200 m with an open sight. The distance has been previously measured. Such people will shoot and hit him at 500.
    I would like to shoot with BCC or AU.
    In the photo, dirt directly splashes from the trunk. Well, is that possible with a friend.
    Sorry for the automatic ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. jogin
      jogin 25 November 2015 09: 50
      0
      Quote: 2-th12-th
      The AK does not need to "drive". Such people will shoot and hit 500 from him.

      If they hit from 500 m, then they will probably hit from 400-450 m. Only then will the "upset target" from М16А4 slap the offender with a reply, and yeah. Because at such a distance, the victim of a quality AK hit has a lot of options. And the victim M16A4 has no options. Only one.
      Now it’s pretty much clear what is the difference between these weapons?
  31. DIMbor
    DIMbor 24 November 2015 18: 58
    +1
    A beautiful weapon. I made a son a gift for the new year.
  32. PRACTICIAN
    PRACTICIAN 25 November 2015 01: 08
    0
    OAHAHA! PIZDY YOU A SNIPER !!! ROLLING UNDER THE TABLE! 450 meters from the AKS-74 to the head 4 out of 5 !!! And even with a colimator! Go to those who have cut off from the army this HUYNYU CARRY! Sorry for the mate, but when you read this! If such MONSTER ARROWS, at least 10 people per region, met, it would be possible to disband all "infantry" units and subunits, as one such soldier could wrap up an entire attacking battalion!
  33. Geraldcer
    Geraldcer 25 November 2015 02: 22
    -3
    Greetings ...
    check out my site
    ---------------------------------
    http://nedforspid.weebly.com/