Military Review

On the new patrol of the FSB border service will be Chinese engines

134
The patrol ships of the 22460 project, being built for Russian border guards, will be equipped with engines manufactured in the PRC, and not in the Federal Republic of Germany, as originally intended, reports MIC with reference to the chief engineer of the company "Almaz" Illyaz Mukhutdinova.




“We are talking about high-speed high-speed diesel engines of high power. We can say that their construction is outdated, ”said Mukhutdinov.

“German diesel engines with a higher resource were originally chosen for the guard,” he explained. “Our German partners refused to supply these products, and in Russia there are currently no high-speed diesel engines of such aggregate capacity that meets the requirements of the customer.”

“In this regard, it was decided to install Chinese high-speed engines on the ships under construction - modern, good, required power. At the moment, the contract for their supply has already been concluded, and the diesel engines of our Chinese partners will be installed on the next ships of the 22460 project, ”said the chief engineer.

The chief designer of the project, Alexey Naumov, clarified that the engines are manufactured under a German license. “These are products that the Chinese produce on the basis of the German design,” he noted.

According to Naumov, the lead ship of the 22460 (“Ruby”) project was commissioned at the end of 2009. “This is a new border ship that was designed for the first time after the collapse of the USSR,” said Naumov. - Our industry is well mastered this ship. It was possible to make a modern, not inferior to world-class technology. "

Help "MIC": “Within the framework of the existing contracts, the Petersburg shipbuilding firm Almaz has already handed over the 5 border guard service to the RSNR, is building another 3 ship and has received an order for three more ships of the 22460 project. "Eastern Shipyard" (Vladivostok) handed over one ship to the customer, the second one is planned to be delivered in November, the third one is under construction. The series is considered to be a record by Russian standards - in total, it is planned for the order of 30 ships, for the first time since the USSR. ”
Photos used:
bastion-opk.ru
134 comments
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  1. VseDoFeNi
    VseDoFeNi 17 November 2015 09: 17 New
    15
    Actually, they are buying aircraft from us. Until we establish our own production, we can also buy from them.
    1. Jack-b
      Jack-b 17 November 2015 09: 20 New
      16
      Now the main thing is not to slow down your accumulated pace. Let's make our engines, we will put our own. I look at it that way.
      1. gispanec
        gispanec 17 November 2015 09: 25 New
        11
        Quote: Jack-B
        Now the main thing is not to slow down your gained pace. Let's make our engines, we will put our own.

        following your logic, you can buy EM from China ... and when we do ours, then we stop ... so what ?? recourse
        1. Jack-b
          Jack-b 17 November 2015 09: 27 New
          +2
          Quote: gispanec
          following your logic, you can buy EM from China ...

          Do we already have a pace of procurement of EM?
          1. gispanec
            gispanec 17 November 2015 09: 50 New
            0
            Quote: Jack-B
            Do we already have a pace of procurement of EM?

            laughing ..and what is the pace of purchases ??? ... quickly quickly buy while they are ?? ... to use ??)) .... there will be a decision Shoigu ... will you and the pace and coffee with cocoa)) ... only the meaning was different ....
            1. Jack-b
              Jack-b 17 November 2015 10: 05 New
              +1
              Quote: gispanec
              and what is the rate of procurement ???.

              I would like to ask you this. I talked about the pace of production, and you told me about the EM plug. Where is your logic?
          2. umah
            umah 17 November 2015 10: 09 New
            +2
            But what did the chief engineer and chief designer say nothing when they had their own engine?
            1. Down House
              Down House 17 November 2015 11: 06 New
              +3
              Quote: umah
              But what did the chief engineer and chief designer say nothing when they had their own engine?

              В рамках действующих контрактов петербургская судостроительная фирма "Алмаз" уже передала погранслужбе 5 ПСКР, строит ещё 3 корабля и получила заказ ещё на три корабля

              With such a volume of purchases, apparently never - 11 engines is clearly not enough to start a new production.
              В данном случае нужно законодательно ограничивать использование "рухляди" в коммерческом "транспорте" (на примере тех же "Евро-Х" и пошлин) тогда и на новые двигатели будет спрос.
              1. Throw
                Throw 17 November 2015 12: 08 New
                0
                And what kind of insolence will the toxicity of the exhaust from the PSKR be measured at sea? laughing
            2. twviewer
              twviewer 17 November 2015 12: 56 New
              +1
              Quote: umah
              But what did the chief engineer and chief designer say nothing when they had their own engine?

              And you walk around the Diamond, check out the number of tenants, but look into the workshop. If the Chinese needed it, they bought a license, but they built a factory. And we are denying our owners a helmet, already at a percentage of per annum. For we have a lot of oil and we will buy everything. :)
              1. VseDoFeNi
                VseDoFeNi 17 November 2015 18: 16 New
                -1
                Quote: twviewer
                And we are denying our owners a helmet, already at a percentage of per annum. For we have a lot of oil and we will buy everything. :)

                China is not dismembered, if anyone does not know ...
        2. FREGATENKAPITAN
          FREGATENKAPITAN 17 November 2015 09: 36 New
          13
          I’m looking at Chinese dump trucks ...... and I think ... what engines are there if they carry three times more weight than the praised KAMAZ trucks ................. Why not take advantage of what we don’t have or worse ..... well, by itself, until we do better ourselves ...
          1. Dangerous
            Dangerous 17 November 2015 09: 51 New
            10
            They carry three times more, because they have higher sides, and they are often loaded with overload, which often causes failures of the brake system, damage to axles and even the frame
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. guzik007
            guzik007 17 November 2015 10: 00 New
            +2
            Kiii dump trucks ... Everything there is disposable and not repairable, unlike Kamaz.
            1. avt
              avt 17 November 2015 10: 20 New
              +9
              Quote: guzik007
              Kiii dump trucks ... Everything is disposable there

              За самосвалы не скажу - не знаю , но вот сталкивался с одной китайской продукцией производимой у них под присмотром нашего бывшего военпреда , так качество вполне приличное . Ну ни как не хуже пресловутого европейского . А в 90 сталкивался с качественной ,,европейской" одеждой пошитой в Индии . Так что с китайцами все просто - будешь лохом - получишь полные руки дерьма за дешево, будешь много платить не глядя - см предыдущий вариант, будешь платить и за свои деньги цепляться к каждой извилине производимого продукта - сделают именно так как ты хочешь . Они тяжёлые пассажиры ,но работать умеют и качество дают , при условии если владеют технологиями и под присмотром заказчика.
              1. Down House
                Down House 17 November 2015 11: 08 New
                +6
                Quote: avt
                will do exactly as you want.

                Ну они вообщем-то только так и работают, строго под потребности клиента - просто "клиенту" обычно надо как можно дешевле, потому что клиент обычно "перекуп" со всеми вытекающими.
              2. veksha50
                veksha50 17 November 2015 11: 33 New
                +7
                Quote: avt
                They know how to work and give quality, provided that they know the technology and under the supervision of the customer.


                Totally agree with you...

                At one time, Chinese products of poor quality filled the US markets ... They simply abruptly started to control their products, setting the condition: the quality will not change - the goods will not go to the market ... And literally in a short time the situation radically and radically changed ...

                So, if our customers are not stunned, and the contract will indicate both control on our part, and huge penalties, in which case, will make the engines honestly ...

                Yes, you yourself see that the same Chinese electronics sold in the Russian Federation have long been not of such poor quality as they were before ...

                PS And then, cynically speaking - do we have many alternative ways out of this situation today ???
                1. avt
                  avt 17 November 2015 12: 59 New
                  +1
                  Quote: veksha50
                  PS And then, cynically speaking - do we have many alternative ways out of this situation today ???

                  good Особенно если учесть СКОЛЬКО проектов заточено под судовые дизеля , да те же ,,Буяны", 20380 и далее по списку.
                2. Karlovar
                  Karlovar 17 November 2015 13: 08 New
                  +1
                  You can buy Bangladeshi engines ... or American at worst ...
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. guzik007
                guzik007 17 November 2015 12: 50 New
                +1
                I won’t say for dump trucks - I don’t know

                I agree completely, everything that they produce under the supervision of representatives of the buyer, very good quality. Look, in Germany, Chinese-made toys are nice to hold in your hands, environmentally friendly materials, the quality is excellent, there are even toys made of rice and corn, the child will bite off the item, it’s okay to dissolve. Ours, basically, buy all sorts of ... ny, only cheaper. So they bought for example a batch of buses for Kazan, scattered on the go, began to wonder where and how, they were horrified, almost half-underground production.
                R.S. By the way, microcircuits from Chinese toys were on the first clubs. Read the previous article, I'm not lying.
            2. kurakovp
              kurakovp 17 November 2015 10: 39 New
              +9
              Unlike KAMAZ, Chinese trucks are much stronger. For 4 years I have been working hovo in Yakutia, pouring roads and bushes under the rigs. Kamazs are pouring in and the Chinese are working.
            3. Vladimir 1964
              Vladimir 1964 17 November 2015 12: 28 New
              0
              Quote: guzik007
              Kiii dump trucks ... Everything there is disposable and not repairable, unlike Kamaz.

              Вот уж с Вами коллега, соглашусь без разговоров. "китайцы" конечно д. полное. А ремонтнопригодность КАМАЗА, не вызывает никаких проблем. Имея опыт трёхлетней эксплуатации камаза (4320) в разведроте, скажу, что первый год проблем не было вообще. Ну а потом без комментариев. В связи с тем что машина была заштатная, ремонтировалось приходилось на словацком "Лиазе" (м. Модрый Камень), там были в шоке от уровня шлифовки головок и блока. Кстати после "капиталки" у словаков, проблем не было вообще. hi
            4. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 17 November 2015 15: 06 New
              +2
              Quote: Author

              “Initially, German diesel engines with a higher resource were chosen for the watchdogs,” he explained. - Our German partners refused to supply this product


              Quote: Author
              “In this regard, it was decided to install Chinese high-speed engines on the ships under construction - modern, good, of the required power.

              Import substitution in action!
              Replaced German with Chinese, urryayaya !!!
              But the first one was launched in 2009 and for 6 years nobody scratched it ...
          4. Vladimir 1964
            Vladimir 1964 17 November 2015 12: 19 New
            +1
            Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
            I’m looking at Chinese dump trucks ...... and I think ... what engines are there if they carry three times more weight than the praised KAMAZ trucks ................. Why not take advantage of what we don’t have or worse ..... well, by itself, until we do better ourselves ...

            Вы это, коллега, аккуратней, "патриоты" обвинят Вас в антироссийской пропаганде. Хотя те кто хоть раз проехал за КАМАЗОМ по трассе, Вас поймёт. hi
        3. Bayonet
          Bayonet 17 November 2015 14: 13 New
          +2
          Quote: gispanec
          following your logic, then EM can be purchased from China ..

          And what's so, wait until we do our own? Do you know that China has the most powerful computer in the world? Since its first launch, Tianhe-2, or Milky Way-2, has been a leader for about two years now.
          Developed by the Defense Scientific and Technical University of the People’s Liberation Army of the People's Republic of China and Inspur Tianhe-2, it consists of 16 thousand nodes with a total number of cores of 3,12 million. The RAM of this whole colossal design, occupying 720 square meters, is 1,4 petabytes, and the storage device is 12,4 petabytes.
          The Milky Way-2 was designed at the initiative of the Chinese government, so it is not surprising that its unprecedented power seems to serve the needs of the state. It was officially announced that the supercomputer is engaged in various simulations, analysis of a huge amount of data, as well as ensuring the state security of China.
          Long gone are the days when the Chinese ran in blue robes with quotes from Mao. It's time to understand and accept it. hi
      2. Mechanic
        Mechanic 17 November 2015 09: 35 New
        +1
        В смысле, когда китайские движки "полетят"? Или на новые проекты будем ставить?
      3. Maxom75
        Maxom75 17 November 2015 10: 11 New
        +4
        Our engines should be better, and for this we need to again grow design staff. Gos. the program should be, and we have state. The program is written for officials to make it easier to cut the budget. When an official will answer with his freedom and life for the result, he will work for the result, not the pocket.
        1. avt
          avt 17 November 2015 10: 22 New
          +5
          Quote: Maxom75
          Our engines should be better, and for this we need to again grow design staff.

          Fasten yourself with commonplace truths. Ships are needed yesterday. They will make high-quality engines under a German license - good luck.
        2. veksha50
          veksha50 17 November 2015 11: 37 New
          +3
          Quote: Maxom75
          When an official will answer with his freedom and life for the result, he will work for the result, not the pocket.



          These are all slogans with which most members of the forum will agree (including myself), but which will not help solve the problem now and here.

          Do you propose to abandon Chinese engines and begin to grow design and production personnel ??? Well, nobody will ever give such a period for restoration to either you or our country ...
          1. Karlovar
            Karlovar 17 November 2015 13: 11 New
            +1
            There is no time at all!
        3. Karlovar
          Karlovar 17 November 2015 13: 12 New
          0
          New design personnel how much is growing-month, two, three ????
        4. Bayonet
          Bayonet 17 November 2015 14: 20 New
          0
          Quote: Maxom75
          Our engines should be better, and for this we need to again grow design staff.

          Ну ясно, опять " халва, халва ...."
    2. Baikonur
      Baikonur 17 November 2015 09: 25 New
      +6
      engines are manufactured under a German license
      Как обычно - "MERCELDEC"! А если по японски, то Panasnik, Pahasonix..., ну, кто помнит те времена! laughing
      1. Down House
        Down House 17 November 2015 11: 13 New
        +4
        Quote: Baikonur
        well, who remembers those times!

        И эти времена прошли, китайцы производят в том числе и достаточно качественные вещи, если вы конечно не хотите купить "самое дешевое что есть".
        А уж то, что из себя представляет современное "европейское качество" - то это вообще тихий ужас.
        1. Karlovar
          Karlovar 17 November 2015 13: 15 New
          0
          Bytovuha made in Germany (pay attention) after the warranty begins to mercilessly crumble, repairs are expensive, it’s easier to buy a new one ..., for which the calculation, marketing is ....
    3. Juborg
      Juborg 17 November 2015 09: 31 New
      +5
      Quote: VseDoFeNi
      Actually, they are buying aircraft from us. Until we establish our own production, we can also buy from them.


      There is one caveat, the Chinese themselves put exclusively German engines on their ships (apparently not trusting their own) Judging by the info on the network, the Chinese are very unreliable with a small (very!) Resource and practically not repairable. Maybe this is a temporary measure, but the question arises, own production and its profitability.
      1. ultra
        ultra 17 November 2015 09: 56 New
        +6
        Quote: juborg
        but the question arises about own production and its profitability.

        The question arises with the change in the economic course, but what you write is only a derivative of it. hi
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. gjv
        gjv 17 November 2015 10: 38 New
        +4
        Quote: juborg
        the Chinese themselves put exclusively German engines on their ships (apparently not trusting their own)

        On the destroyers of types 052C and 052D, a copy of the German MTU of the Chinese production of the Shaanxi factory.
      4. jjj
        jjj 17 November 2015 11: 22 New
        0
        Quote: juborg
        ut one nuance, the Chinese themselves put exclusively German engines on their ships

        So you have opened the logistics of deliveries of engines from Germany to Russia. Via china
      5. veksha50
        veksha50 17 November 2015 11: 41 New
        +2
        Quote: juborg
        There’s one caveat the Chinese themselves put exclusively German engines on their ships (apparently not trusting their own)


        Ahem ... Unlike Russia, China is not under sanctions ... Why not put German engines with a higher degree of quality and reliability ???

        But we are under sanctions ... There are no necessary engines of our own ... So what ??? Wait until they appear ???

        Yes, you need to produce your own, but as long as they are not there, you will have to do with the Chinese, but (!!!) urgently developing and restoring your production ...
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. ultra
      ultra 17 November 2015 09: 53 New
      +5
      Quote: VseDoFeNi
      Until we’ll set up our own production,

      IMHO With the current vector of economic development, this is unlikely.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 17 November 2015 10: 06 New
        12
        Quote: ultra
        IMHO With the current vector of economic development, this is unlikely.

        I agree. We’re sitting on the pipe, but there’s just talk about new productions. About one launched production will be shown on all channels, and about three closed silence. As long as our government considers Chubais and Serdyukov effective managers, it will not be better. hi
        P.S. China is only exporting children's toys, has more than we are selling gas.
        1. Jack-b
          Jack-b 17 November 2015 10: 13 New
          -2
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          We’re sitting on the pipe, but there’s just talk about new production.

          Especially for you a resource http://www.sdelanounas.ru/
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 17 November 2015 10: 49 New
            +9
            Quote: Jack-B
            Especially for you a resource http://www.sdelanounas.ru/

            Не тянет этот ресурс на подъёме, как старый "МАЗ" в горку. Количество работающих людей на вновь открытых предприятиях блекнет в сравнении с сокращенными с других.
            At one AvtoVAZ 11 thousand. people reduced (700 this year, the rest at the beginning of next)
            Who is longer and thicker? (I'm talking about the listwink)
            1. Jack-b
              Jack-b 17 November 2015 11: 30 New
              -1
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Do not pull this resource on the rise

              What is too lazy to take a calculator and calculate? That's only in October, and only where indicated the creation of new jobs:
              http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/69938/
              Total: 2006 jobs created in October only. And again I repeat: only those industries where the number of new jobs are written are taken into account. There is still a list without indicating those. And only for October. It looks like I'm longer and thicker. (I'm also talking about the list) wink
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 17 November 2015 12: 04 New
                +3
                Quote: Jack-B
                2006 jobs created in October only

                And I'm only talking about AvtoVAZ, though for a year. But there is also AvtoVAZ aggregate, successfully bankrupt by BU Anderson. This is another 2000 people. And there are other subcontractors. Can compare in the last three years, and in the whole country?
                The loser personally circumcises himself ... (list) laughing
                1. Jack-b
                  Jack-b 17 November 2015 13: 46 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  The loser personally circumcises himself ... (list) laughing

                  http://www.gks.ru/bgd/free/b04_03/IssWWW.exe/Stg/d06/213.htm
                  Something seems to me that I have more (chances to win)
                  Таблица "Уровень безработицы по полу и виду поселения"
                  Колонка "Всего". С начала 2015 в феврале небольшой скачок и затем постоянное снижение.
                  This is official data.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 17 November 2015 14: 45 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Jack-B
                    http://www.gks.ru/bgd/free/b04_03/IssWWW.exe/Stg/d06/213.htm

                    By your link, I liked the breadth of accounting for the active population.
                    Economically Active Population+15 years (labor force)
                    15 years is the initial threshold, I was not mistaken? And the upper bar 72 years? With an average life expectancy of 66 years? Why are teenagers and pensioners taken into account when calculating unemployment?
                    And yet, with surprise for myself, I found that in the Samara region unemployment is the lowest (2,4%), after St. Petersburg and Moscow (1,9%). It’s even ridiculous, since they are proposing to go to Chechnya (17,1%) and the Far East as shortened from VAZ. The lowest% in the Far East is 3,3%, which is still higher than in the Samara region. Paradox. request
                    P.S. Calculations are made only according to the employment service, and not all apply there.
                    1. VseDoFeNi
                      VseDoFeNi 17 November 2015 20: 07 New
                      0
                      “Today, under Putin, people in Russia live as RICH as they never lived in the foreseeable past. Vivid evidence of this is the courtyards of Russian cities, clogged with cars, many of which were bought with overpayment on credit. This indicates that people have money to overpay and the lack of intelligence, so as not to overpay.
                      And I will repeat it as long as there are those who do not understand this. ”© VseDoFeNi

                      According to the World Bank, in 2014, the Russian economy took fifth place in the world ranking. Also, according to a World Bank report, China came into first place by a significant margin, pushing the United States to second place.

                      This event looks particularly noteworthy against the background of Western sanctions introduced in early 2014.


                      But you are warped by the successes of Russia.
                    2. Jack-b
                      Jack-b 18 November 2015 17: 27 New
                      0
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      15 years the initial threshold, I was not mistaken? And the upper bar 72 of the year?

                      Below that table is the layout of unemployment by age. If you want to reduce the spread by age, say from 20 to 65, then given the layout by age, the overall unemployment rate will be even less. For the highest unemployment in the age group 15-19 years: up to 32%. Excluding it from the calculations, we will reduce the overall result (unemployment rate), and very significantly.
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      P.S. Calculations are made only according to the employment service, and not all apply there.

                      Those who intend to quickly get a job do not apply to the employment service. Those who do not hope to do this quickly, or cannot do it, of course go to register. Firstly, it is assistance in finding a job, and secondly, at least some kind of unemployment benefit. So the data is quite reliable.
          2. ultra
            ultra 17 November 2015 11: 43 New
            +1
            Quote: Jack-B
            Especially for you resource

            Take off your pink glasses !!!! Look at the reality !!!
            1. Jack-b
              Jack-b 17 November 2015 13: 25 New
              -1
              I don’t wear glasses at all. None. Excellent eyesight, not complaining. Maybe the problem is not in my glasses, but in your blinkers?
          3. Uncle Joe
            Uncle Joe 17 November 2015 18: 59 New
            0
            Quote: Jack-B
            Especially for you a resource http://www.sdelanounas.ru/
            1. Jack-b
              Jack-b 19 November 2015 10: 10 New
              0
              What does 2005 and 2013 have to do with it? After 2005, there was 2008.
    6. arane
      arane 17 November 2015 10: 02 New
      +5
      Quote: VseDoFeNi
      Actually, they are buying aircraft from us. Until we establish our own production, we can also buy from them.

      As if we have options!
    7. max702
      max702 17 November 2015 10: 07 New
      12
      У нас с двигателями вообще проблема .. Все что производится на поколение два отстает от мировых аналогов, что странно.. Вкосмос летаем, ракетные и авиационные двигатели вполне конкурентны, а вот с автомобильными двигателями особенно малого размера БЕДА! Где дизель на "Газель", "Уаз", "Ниву" ? НЕТУ там до сих пор стоят бензиновые двигателя! На одном на этом мы в размерах страны тратим коллосальные деньги и несем прямой убыток, ан ПАЗах автобусах тоже стоят бензинки.. Из всех грузовых дизелей малого объема только дизель от "Белоруся" с родословной в 50лет.. На Камазах и Уралах только только стали появляться относительно современные дизеля и на сколько они будут хороши покажет время.. Почему у "Хендая", "Лифана " , и прочих есть хорошие движки , а у нас нет? Может вместо покупки ценных бумаг"партнеров" и раздачи не возвращаемых кредитов выделить пару млрд\долл на разработку и внедрение современной линейки двигателей для народного хоз-ва? отдача за десяток лет окупит эти миллиарды многократно!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. War and Peace
        War and Peace 17 November 2015 11: 10 New
        +3
        Quote: max702
        In KamAZ and the Urals, only relatively modern diesel engines have just begun to appear and time will tell how good they will be ..


        эти "наши" двигателя ,как бы наши ,топливная апаратура немецкая на ЯМЗ ,ФИЛЬТРА,ДАТЧИКИ всё не наше...
        В нашем "суверенном" государстве существует запрет на изготовление ,больших самолётов,больших кораблей,больших космических кораблей,своих двигателей,своей электроники-компутеров,наша специальность -это нефть и газ и назначение -сырьевой придаток,поэтому мелкие кораблики с китайскими двигателями для этого путинского государства в самый раз...
        1. Down House
          Down House 17 November 2015 11: 36 New
          +2
          Quote: War and Peace
          В нашем "суверенном" государстве существует запрет на изготовление ,больших самолётов,больших кораблей,больших космических кораблей,своих двигателей,своей электроники-компутеров

          Yes, yes, yes, they forbid laughing
          Просто наш бизнес в это не вкладывается, потому что у нас нет пока такого бизнеса, который бы смог конкурировать с международными корпорациями в производстве современного оборудования, потому что эти корпорации товары производят и продают по всему миру - компании "национальные" уже практически не способны к конкуренции с ними.
          The brightest example is the world of cars, such monsters as Saab, Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover went bankrupt and were bought by the Chinese and Indians - why talk about any YaMZ!
      3. Down House
        Down House 17 November 2015 11: 12 New
        0
        Quote: max702
        NO there are still gasoline engines! On one of this, we are spending colossal money in the size of the country and incurring direct loss, gas tanks also cost gasoline in PAZ buses

        И вся эта техника практически массово на газе, как именно вы в этом случае посчитали "убыток" ?
      4. TROG
        TROG 17 November 2015 12: 07 New
        +1
        In PAZs that run around our cities are diesel engines. Good German engines, Oh, I’m amerikosov’s Kamenzys. In St. Petersburg, only Piteravto bought a lot of PAZs with gasoline engines, for which I paid)
        1. max702
          max702 17 November 2015 22: 00 New
          0
          I found out gasoline in the ATP .. Diesel Toko from private traders ... I asked for what they took? Cheaper ...
          1. VseDoFeNi
            VseDoFeNi 18 November 2015 06: 20 New
            0
            Quote: max702
            Cheaper ...

            That is, what is "совокупная стоимость владения" people have no idea.
    8. mQn
      mQn 17 November 2015 10: 59 New
      0
      and laughter and sin ......
    9. War and Peace
      War and Peace 17 November 2015 11: 04 New
      -2
      On the new patrol of the FSB border service will be Chinese engines


      ннда нашли "альтернативу" скоро вьетнамские ставить будем они ещё дешевле...
    10. starshina78
      starshina78 17 November 2015 11: 30 New
      +1
      Могу сказать одно - китайские движки , выпускаемые по лицензии нормальные . Вся технология сборки и изготовление деталей идет под контролем специалистов той фирмы чьи движки они собирают . Например : у нас на заводе получили " КАМАЗы " с китайскими " Cummins " - отличные движки . Наездили уже по поллимона километров и ничего . Одни расходники при ТО . В инструкции этих движков написано , что фирма дает гарантию независимо от места производства .
  2. tsvetkov1274
    tsvetkov1274 17 November 2015 09: 17 New
    +5
    And what is weak?: /
    1. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 17 November 2015 09: 20 New
      +2
      Quote: tsvetkov1274
      And what is weak?: /

      It’s not that weak. In the USSR, this production was in Ukraine. And then do not forget that we are very few. China + India + EU + USA already has more than 4 billion people. Already almost thirty times more than in Russia. 146 million are not able to produce so much.
      1. Jack-b
        Jack-b 17 November 2015 09: 22 New
        16
        Quote: VseDoFeNi
        146 millions are not able to produce so much.

        Of course in a condition. It’s just that until now it was believed that there was no need for this, you can buy abroad what we don’t have. It turned out that it is impossible.
        1. VseDoFeNi
          VseDoFeNi 17 November 2015 09: 39 New
          +2
          Quote: Jack-B

          Of course in a condition. It’s just that until now it was believed that there was no need for this, you can buy abroad what we don’t have. It turned out that it is impossible.

          Uncle, Russia has 20 million office plankton, which doesn’t do nichrome. They have a state of instability and receiving money. fool

          Once again - for every citizen of our country only in the countries I have listed, not counting Latin America and Africa, there are 30 people. You should at least try to work for THREE; you are our urapatriotic cap-breaker. fool
          1. Jack-b
            Jack-b 17 November 2015 10: 02 New
            +2
            Quote: VseDoFeNi
            You at least try to work for THREE

            When there is no head, you can tear for ten. And trample Claudia to bloody fingers. There will be no sense.
            1. VseDoFeNi
              VseDoFeNi 17 November 2015 18: 01 New
              0
              Quote: Jack-B
              When there is no head, you can tear for ten. And trample Claudia to bloody fingers. There will be no sense.

              This is empty talk. I want specifics - HOW does Russia produce more than the rest of the world ???
          2. Hello
            Hello 17 November 2015 10: 18 New
            +6
            Quote: VseDoFeNi
            Uncle, Russia has 20 million office plankton, which doesn’t do nichrome. They have a state of instability and receiving money.

            And then in China and the United States less plankton.
            Quote: VseDoFeNi
            Once again - for every citizen of our country only in the countries I have listed, not counting Latin America and Africa, there are 30 people. You should at least try to work for THREE; you are our urapatriotic cap-breaker.

            But what about the USSR in which I notice the population, too, was no more than in China. He coped like that, in many ways not perfectly but coped.
            1. Down House
              Down House 17 November 2015 11: 17 New
              +1
              Quote: Hello
              But what about the USSR in which I notice the population, too, was no more than in China. He coped like that, in many ways not perfectly but coped.

              Here the question is that in the USSR there were dumping prices and state subsidies for many types of goods and services - when the borders were opened, it turned out that our enterprises were not capable under equal conditions of producing competitive goods at the same price.
              1. Hello
                Hello 17 November 2015 11: 32 New
                +2
                Quote: Down House
                Here the question is that in the USSR there were dumping prices and state subsidies for many types of goods and services - when the borders were opened, it turned out that our enterprises were not capable under equal conditions of producing competitive goods at the same price.

                Then I agree. I just don’t understand this throw in the extremes of some, some people shout, let’s not buy anything abroad, others yell, we don’t know how to give everything abroad. A compromise would be preferable. hi
                1. VseDoFeNi
                  VseDoFeNi 17 November 2015 18: 05 New
                  0
                  Quote: Hello
                  A compromise would be preferable. hi

                  This is just a compromise.
                  Quote: VseDoFeNi
                  Actually, they are buying aircraft from us. Until we establish our own production, we can also buy from them.

                  This is my first post on this topic.
            2. VseDoFeNi
              VseDoFeNi 17 November 2015 17: 58 New
              0
              Quote: Hello
              And then in China and the United States less plankton.

              More. In the USA, ALL the world plows, and in China there are TEN times more people.

              Quote: Hello
              But what about the USSR in which I notice the population, too, was no more than in China. He coped like that, in many ways not perfectly but coped.

              Send to Russia from Israel all who dumped from the USSR? ..
              And then China was not a world factory.
          3. Karlovar
            Karlovar 17 November 2015 13: 27 New
            0
            Demography to this day plays a dominant role in economics, politics, geopolitics .... I am silent about ancient times, then the success of any enterprise depended directly on demography! Winners in wars tried to drive out the population of the vanquished through massacre, hunger, cold, disease ...
            1. VseDoFeNi
              VseDoFeNi 18 November 2015 06: 24 New
              0
              Quote: Karlovar
              Winners in wars tried to drive out the population of the vanquished through massacre, hunger, cold, disease ...

              Of course, this is not so. It is enough to recall the war with Napoleon, in which the Russians did not organize genocide, in contrast to the conquests of the Americas, in which the Europeans almost completely destroyed the population of the continents. The ideology, you see, is satanic among Europeans.
      2. Gani
        Gani 17 November 2015 10: 39 New
        +3
        146 millions are not able to produce so much.
        And you look at South Korea! Company LG shipyards - loaded, modern, high-tech, electronics, chemistry, etc.
        Samsung - most recently there was - almost a third of the global production of smartphones, and so on? - Also not sour. etc. etc.
        how much population do they have?
        1. Down House
          Down House 17 November 2015 11: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: Gani
          And you look at South Korea! Company LG shipyards - loaded, modern, high-tech, electronics, chemistry, etc.
          Samsung - most recently there was - almost a third of the global production of smartphones, and so on? - Also not sour. etc. etc.
          how much population do they have?

          And what does the population of South Korea have to do with it - if these are international MEGO corporations with an office in South Korea.
          Samsung has offices and factories around the world, including the Russian Federation.
          1. Gani
            Gani 17 November 2015 12: 09 New
            0
            And what does the population of South Korea have to do with it - if these are international MEGO corporations with an office in South Korea
            .
            And despite the fact that 146 million are not able to produce so much - this is not true and Korea is a vivid example of this (despite the huge financial and technological Western investments there and the fact that Korean corporations are international MEGA corporations with an office in South ) the fact remains that having a three times smaller population, Korea probably produces no less than our technological products (not counting factories abroad)
            And take the States, the population is 2 times larger, and how much production? (the erroneous opinion that the states is only a financial bubble, and all production in China should not be cited)

            Therefore, I say that 146 million MUCH can produce! We cannot, already or so far, but not because of the small population) ...
            1. Down House
              Down House 17 November 2015 15: 27 New
              0
              Quote: Gani
              the fact remains that having a three times smaller population, Korea probably produces no less than we produce technology

              And again, the matter is not in the population - Samsung electronics for the Russian market is produced, for example, by the population of the Russian Federation itself.
              The fact is that we can produce something, but we also need to sell our products in order to recoup the production itself - and the market for modern corporations (and those of South Korea) is the whole world!
        2. Karlovar
          Karlovar 17 November 2015 13: 45 New
          +1
          Не забывайте,Ю.Корея,Япония,Западная Европа после 2-й мировой попали под план Маршалла,что подрозумевало подгон кучи почти дармовых кредитов,дармовых технологий от "благодетелей" США...СССР же вынужден был уповать на свои силы,выкарабкиваясь из послевоенной разрухи.Понятно,что США делали это не от хорошей жизни,надо было усиливать союзников в противостоянии с СССР и КНР...Примечательный факт-помощь Японии США включили лишь в 1949 году,году образования КНР,до того и не собирались шибко...
      3. BIGLESHIY
        BIGLESHIY 17 November 2015 13: 59 New
        +3
        Quote: VseDoFeNi
        Quote: tsvetkov1274
        And what is weak?: /

        It’s not that weak. In the USSR, this production was in Ukraine.

        В СССР "Дальдизель" выпускал дизеля которые шли и на экспорт.В году 95-96 был у них в эксперементальном цехе и видел новый дизель который прошёл комплекс испытаний, они собирались его ставить на производство. Но завод развалили.
        PS But there were several other types of engines in the tests and one sheathed one that was not shown to anyone. very secret.
    2. Alexei
      Alexei 17 November 2015 09: 21 New
      -5
      Quote: tsvetkov1274
      And what is weak?: /

      What for dozens of engines to deploy production? Or if these ships are really needed now, how much time will it take to develop their engines?
      1. Jack-b
        Jack-b 17 November 2015 09: 26 New
        +7
        Quote: Alexej
        What for dozens of engines to deploy production?

        Because we must have our own military uniform. Alas, as practice has shown, you cannot rely on partners in this matter. And in order not to deploy due to several dozen, it will be necessary to adapt them to other ships and produce hundreds.
        1. veksha50
          veksha50 17 November 2015 12: 00 New
          +7
          Quote: Jack-B
          it will be necessary to adapt them to other ships and produce hundreds.



          The fleet needs to be restored not only military ...

          And civilian sea freight and fishing companies must be with mandatory state participation (51% of the shares) ...

          And state development programs should not be adopted for formal satisfaction and complacency, but real, with benchmarks and goals for achievement ... But to start - just from the small, as with these small ships and engines for them ...

          If you just shake the air, then nothing good will come of it ...

          I, too, sitting in the kitchen, see a lot of holes and shortcomings in our domestic politics and economy ... And I am able to bark at what is bad and think about what is good ... Does it make sense ???

          We have such Augean stables that they still have to be cleaned, cleaned and cleaned ... Only one of the creatures that stood at the helm of this collapse still thrives and even tries to indicate which path Russia should take ...
      2. Manul
        Manul 17 November 2015 16: 23 New
        0
        Quote: Alexej
        What for dozens of engines to deploy production? Or if these ships are really needed now, how much time will it take to develop their engines?

        There will be engines, we will find and where to put it. And what is the state of the fishing fleet in our state? And other civilian vessels necessary for the country - transport, scientific, etc. - Not needed?
    3. Good me
      Good me 17 November 2015 09: 29 New
      +9
      Quote: tsvetkov1274
      And what is weak?: /

      Bye, yes ...

      В 90х, такого "наворотили", что ещё разгребать и разгребать. А двигатели нужны УЖЕ СЕЙЧАС...

      And in this situation, it would not hurt our officials to take an excursion into the history of domestic engine building.

      History, she then remembers that, for example, the outstanding Soviet designer of aircraft engines, the nephew of the great Zhukovsky, Alexander Mikulin (brand AM), at the first stage of creating a design and production school, on the orders of the party, was engaged not only in his own work, but also in fine-tuning foreign engines, one way or another entered the USSR ...

      And it was not shameful. Such a step, allowed as soon as possible to create your own engine school and its production ...
      1. Manul
        Manul 17 November 2015 16: 25 New
        0
        Quote: Good Me
        History, she then remembers that, for example, the outstanding Soviet designer of aircraft engines, the nephew of the great Zhukovsky, Alexander Mikulin (brand AM), at the first stage of creating a design and production school, on the orders of the party, was engaged not only in his own work, but also in fine-tuning foreign engines, one way or another entered the USSR ...

        And it was not shameful. Such a step, allowed as soon as possible to create your own engine school and its production ...

        So I thought - shouldn't we include a photocopier too? And just copy these engines repeat Since sanctions and all that. Before whom are we honored to observe and observe the principles of fair trade, since everyone has turned their backs on us?
  3. Alexei
    Alexei 17 November 2015 09: 18 New
    +1
    The new FSB Border Guards will have Chinese ...
    Then my heart sank
    engines
    and after that word went again.
    1. Good me
      Good me 17 November 2015 09: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: Alexej
      The new FSB Border Guards will have Chinese ...
      Then my heart sank
      engines
      and after that word went again.


      To protect you from unnecessary heart worries:

  4. cniza
    cniza 17 November 2015 09: 19 New
    +3
    This is not entirely good, but it can be said badly ... oh, the dashing 90s were ruined ... we had good, though not very economical, engines.
    1. SSR
      SSR 17 November 2015 09: 25 New
      +3
      Creating a powerful, reliable, economically sound engine is an entire industry! Which can’t be ruined .... Reputation is gained over the years and ruined in an hour .... Our space engines are known all over the world, engines of rollsroys and pratni ..... In general, the Chinese cannot make normal engines for airplanes and tanks (maybe already could) but what can shipping? Imha is a deflection.
      1. Good me
        Good me 17 November 2015 09: 40 New
        +4
        Quote: SSR
        In general, the Chinese can’t do normal engines for airplanes and tanks (maybe they already could) but what can shipping? Imha is a deflection.


        Собственно, китайцы, не создавали двигатель "с нуля", а взяли за основу немецкий двигатель,"поколдовали" над ним, и "Вуаля" fellow , almost a new engine with new features ...

        Good, hard to spoil, even the Chinese yes

        Как пример, движки на китайских мопедах,"передранные" с 50-ти летней японской "Хонда Супер Куп"...

        ВСЁ, в мопеде ломается в ухнарь, а двигатель, по праву снискавший себе славу "неубиваемый", знай себе работает...
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 17 November 2015 10: 10 New
          +1
          Quote: Good Me
          а взяли за основу немецкий двигатель,"поколдовали" над ним, и "Вуаля" , практически новый движок с новыми характеристиками...

          And our weak to conjure?
          1. cniza
            cniza 17 November 2015 11: 00 New
            0
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Quote: Good Me
            а взяли за основу немецкий двигатель,"поколдовали" над ним, и "Вуаля" , практически новый движок с новыми характеристиками...

            And our weak to conjure?




            It turns out easier to buy than to develop your
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 17 November 2015 11: 25 New
              0
              Quote: cniza
              It turns out easier to buy than to develop your

              Stalin would quickly prove the opposite.
          2. Good me
            Good me 17 November 2015 11: 30 New
            0
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            And our weak to conjure?


            About this, as part of the article, I already wrote.
          3. Karlovar
            Karlovar 17 November 2015 14: 08 New
            0
            There is little to conjure ... Production to establish, and this is hundreds of related plants + assembly production, respectively it is money, personnel, time, a much more difficult task ...
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 17 November 2015 14: 56 New
              +1
              Quote: Karlovar
              . Production to establish, and this is hundreds of related plants + assembly production, respectively, this is money,stafftime is a much more difficult task ...

              The key word is FRAMES. Nanotechnology near Chubais, shell production - near Kiriyenko (1998)
      2. Karlovar
        Karlovar 17 November 2015 14: 04 New
        0
        They shipboard gas turbines at 40 MW were bungled, under 120 MW gas turbine engines for drilling platforms ...
  5. avvg
    avvg 17 November 2015 09: 19 New
    +5
    А Вот вопрос! Почему Китайские,а не Российские,где "импортозамещение",где национальные интересы и кто виноват?
  6. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 17 November 2015 09: 21 New
    +4
    The Germans do not want to earn, let others earn. In general, you need to develop and produce your own engines, national interests and prestige, after all.
  7. Don
    Don 17 November 2015 09: 22 New
    14
    Survived! With engines for ships, a complete ass, however, is that for boats, that for corvettes, for frigates. But we can build nuclear reactors. So it is in civilian life: domestic cars are basins, but ATTENTION! American astronauts on the ISS fly on our Unions! The mind cannot understand Russia ...
  8. Evgeny RS
    Evgeny RS 17 November 2015 09: 22 New
    +3
    Instead of German MTU, Chinese MTU?
  9. A-Sim
    A-Sim 17 November 2015 09: 23 New
    +4
    "импортозамещение", говоришь?. Хххех. (х\ф "Белое солнце пустыни")
  10. SERGEY UI
    SERGEY UI 17 November 2015 09: 24 New
    +4
    Guarded import substitution wassat
  11. region46
    region46 17 November 2015 09: 25 New
    +1
    So what x .. it is out of date with us, but the Chinese do not! why do you get a salary designer worthless there.
  12. McLuha-MacLeod
    McLuha-MacLeod 17 November 2015 09: 25 New
    +2
    We do good and powerful for diesel tanks, but can’t we do for boats?
    1. veksha50
      veksha50 17 November 2015 12: 10 New
      -1
      Quote: McLooka-MacLeod
      We do good and powerful for diesel tanks, but can’t we do for boats?



      I’m not a connoisseur, not a river boatman and not a sailor, but when I served in Kostroma on the Volga, I know that on many respectable level boats, as they say now, in VIP class, there were tank diesels ...

      PS It was a mistake when the USSR fell apart that they were in a hurry to take out nuclear weapons in the first place, but they forgot about such matters as naval design bureaus, missile and aviation ones ...
      1. Good me
        Good me 17 November 2015 14: 12 New
        +1
        Quote: veksha50
        PS It was a mistake when the USSR fell apart that they were in a hurry to take out nuclear weapons in the first place, but they forgot about such matters as naval design bureaus, missile and aviation ones ...


        Если бы "запамятовали"... Бросали "за ненадобностью",там где можно было поторговаться с местными, или США, курировавшим весь процесс,"мутили" бабло...

        Об интересах страны,в большинстве случаев, тогда не думали. Даже вывод ЯО, это плод беспокойства США о его "расползании"...
    2. Karlovar
      Karlovar 17 November 2015 14: 13 New
      0
      There the category is completely different, on ships ....
  13. user
    user 17 November 2015 09: 25 New
    +2
    This is a product that the Chinese produce based on all the same German development


    For every tricky nut there is a tricky bolt, but in general it is necessary to organize your own production of engines for military equipment, otherwise options are possible as with Ukraine.
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 17 November 2015 14: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: user
      but in general, you need to organize your own production of engines for military equipment,

      Interesting idea! smile
  14. Yak-3P
    Yak-3P 17 November 2015 09: 26 New
    +1
    not everything is good in our mechanical engineering. 20 years down the drain .. although China helps but it was previously the other way around - we organized mechanical engineering and machine-tool building
  15. Alexl
    Alexl 17 November 2015 09: 27 New
    +2
    We survived, even in China there are engines, but they themselves have naked ***.
  16. Denis DV
    Denis DV 17 November 2015 09: 33 New
    +3
    Well, right, they did without an intermediary laughing The Chinese did 80% of components for German engines hi
  17. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 17 November 2015 09: 33 New
    0
    Nothing like boats. 630 tons, six-barrel 30 mm, helicopter, speed 30 knots and autonomy 60 days.
    Жаль, "Калибры" не предусмотрены. laughing And then a series of 30 boats ... For partners, the roof would have immediately moved off.
  18. S_Baykala
    S_Baykala 17 November 2015 09: 33 New
    +6
    Сейчас сижу, пишу с компа. 99% его электроники собрано в Китае. У 99 % россиян такая же фигня. Что сказать - работает пока 3 года. Второму лет 10 (самым старым его агрегатам). Пашет. Кучу запчастей выкинул, поменял, продал не из-за того, что они поломались, а из-за того, что морально устарели. Все работает при минимальных затратах и минимальном уходе. Некоторые китайские вещи заслуженно имеют статус "дрэк", "дешевка" и т.д. А некоторые, наоборот: очень приличного качества за минимальные деньги. Надеюсь, данные двигатели из этой серии.
  19. Engineer
    Engineer 17 November 2015 09: 35 New
    +2
    Chinese ...
  20. Million
    Million 17 November 2015 09: 41 New
    +3
    You have to do yours, yours! Especially for the FSB
  21. Limon1972
    Limon1972 17 November 2015 09: 44 New
    +2
    The factory does not move sad Given how their boss spent time, it’s amazing that there’s something left ...
  22. nivander
    nivander 17 November 2015 09: 51 New
    +2
    Shaise Donervetter
  23. GUKTU
    GUKTU 17 November 2015 09: 51 New
    +3
    Shame, shame and shame! Is it really impossible for us to make diesel engines ???
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 17 November 2015 14: 50 New
      0
      Quote: GUKTU
      Is it really impossible for us to make diesel engines ???

      An agonizing question ...
  24. aleksfill
    aleksfill 17 November 2015 09: 52 New
    +2
    “We are talking about high-speed high-speed diesel engines of high power. We can say that their construction is outdated, ”said Mukhutdinov.
    Shame, when will the situation with power units begin to improve? One chatter, what about frigates
    laid in shipyards in Kaliningrad, that without Ukraine, neither a tooth nor a foot with a toe?
  25. Rash
    Rash 17 November 2015 09: 53 New
    +3
    Как-то отец купил китайскую рубашку поло фабрики "Дружба" такого красивого бордового цвета. Так он 5 лет ее носил, пока из размеров вышел (брюшком). Потом подрос до размеров рубашки мой старший брат и носил еще 5 лет, пока за размеры не вышел smile Well, I also wore 5 years repeat
    It turns out 15 years have been worn. The paint did not fade at all, but the threads, of course, were frayed.
    So there is a China brand, but there is a China golem. laughing
    1. sisa29
      sisa29 17 November 2015 10: 11 New
      +1
      What is interesting in China itself is very difficult to buy a bad thing in the domestic market. What is even more surprising is very few souvenirs.
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 17 November 2015 14: 57 New
      0
      Quote: Rash
      So there is a China brand, but there is a China golem.

      Китай делает все по желанию заказчика. Можно дешево и не качественно, а можно дорого и качественно. Наши "купцы" предпочитают дешевку. Отсюда и мнение о китайской продукции. request
  26. INF
    INF 17 November 2015 09: 54 New
    0
    Quote: avvg
    А Вот вопрос! Почему Китайские,а не Российские,где "импортозамещение",где национальные интересы и кто виноват?


    Interests, that is, quite recently everything stood, now we are developing slowly, if we take the Stakhanov pace, then very soon half of the country will work for the defense industry, and then the time will come and it will come when the pace will slow down and trample people from the workplace to the street.
    1. veksha50
      veksha50 17 November 2015 12: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: INF
      very soon half of the country will work for the defense industry, and then the time will come and it will come when the pace will slow down and trample the people from the workplace to the street.



      Have you ever thought that the same situation in the same states ???

      All the best has always come to a citizen just from the defense industry ... Just think about where the diapers, microwaves and much, much more came from.

      And if in some town some kind of defense production resumes its work, I don’t think that its inhabitants will be against ...
  27. Evgeny RS
    Evgeny RS 17 November 2015 09: 55 New
    +1
    It was reported that
    "в конце 2017-го — начале 2018 года НПО «Сатурн» начнет поставлять для кораблей ВМФ России, строящихся на верфях ОСК, свои газотурбинные двигатели".

    Read more at RBC:
    http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/557587b99a7947dd09ddf34c
  28. pts-m
    pts-m 17 November 2015 10: 12 New
    -2
    Interesting. And these boats are equipped with long oars? As an additional vehicle.
  29. Fonmeg
    Fonmeg 17 November 2015 10: 16 New
    +4
    The policy of spreading their own economy continues. The government is pretending to import substitution, and in reality, a dummy, the Central Bank for its part stupidly squeezes the money supply. Everyone knows what indicator of monetization, that is, money saturation in our economy, is no secret. It is lower than in many African countries. For comparison: in Russia in 2013 the economy was monetized by 47,1%, this is one of the lowest rates in the world. In Papua New Guinea, it is 52%, in Paraguay - 46%. And on average, the monetization of economies around the world is approximately 125%. After that, one can only be surprised at the amazing vitality of our economy. She is bled, and she is still breathing.
    1. veksha50
      veksha50 17 November 2015 12: 18 New
      +1
      Quote: Fonmeg
      Everyone knows what indicator of monetization, that is, money saturation in our economy, is no secret.



      Hmm ... here the other day flashed the news that the Central Bank decided in January to print an additional 1 trillion rubles ...

      PS But thoughts about how to saturate with financial resources the industry that is in dire need of them in the Central Bank did not occur to anyone ... But why should they ???
  30. rudolff
    rudolff 17 November 2015 10: 50 New
    +3
    Могу понять, что Россия в силу определенных обстоятельств не в состоянии в настоящее время производить современные двигатели. Могу понять, что разработка новых и запуск их в производство займет многие годы. Но вот чего не могу понять, уж коль все равно приходится закупать "забугорные", что мешало нам организовать СП с локализацией производства на собственной территории или приобрести лицензии, что бы совсем уж не зависить от "партнеров"? Китайцы штампуют технику по лицензиям, удовлетворяют свои потребности и еще на экспорт гонят. А мы? Такие гордые или нам нaфиг ничего не нужно? Ну вот теперь будем покупать теже немецкие, но в китайском исполнении. А могли бы сами делать.
  31. lopvlad
    lopvlad 17 November 2015 10: 57 New
    +1
    At the moment, a contract for their supply has already been concluded, and the diesel engines of our Chinese partners will already be installed on the next ships of the 22460 project

    shitty is all. From dependence on ukrov, Germans, French to dependence on Chinese and others.
    Who can guarantee that tomorrow or the day after tomorrow the Chinese will not refuse to supply us with engines, for example, for refusing to sell them modern technologies in the production of something?
    You need to think with your head so as not to rumble the hulls of ships without engines on the stocks and in the docks of factories.
  32. Val_y
    Val_y 17 November 2015 11: 08 New
    -2
    Quote: Jack-B
    Let's make our engines, we will put our own

    Есть такие движки дизеля ПАО "Звезда" М-507, и стоят такие на МРК проекта 1234 шифр "Овод" (водоизмещение 730т, скорость 35 узлов, РК пр.1241 "Молния" и др.) так что тов. Ильяз Мухуддинов мягкоговоря свистит, по ходу просто откат... wink, and teahouses in this regard are masters.
  33. Seventh
    Seventh 17 November 2015 11: 18 New
    0
    Quote: rudolff
    Могу понять, что Россия в силу определенных обстоятельств не в состоянии в настоящее время производить современные двигатели. Могу понять, что разработка новых и запуск их в производство займет многие годы. Но вот чего не могу понять, уж коль все равно приходится закупать "забугорные", что мешало нам организовать СП с локализацией производства на собственной территории или приобрести лицензии, что бы совсем уж не зависить от "партнеров"? Китайцы штампуют технику по лицензиям, удовлетворяют свои потребности и еще на экспорт гонят. А мы? Такие гордые или нам нaфиг ничего не нужно? Ну вот теперь будем покупать теже немецкие, но в китайском исполнении. А могли бы сами делать.
    C'mon, you can understand all this only by using conspiracy theories in practice .. winked There is nothing abstrusely complicated in a diesel engine, the design is primitive, even German .. the whole thing is only two things - materials and precision. Therefore, if desired, they are ... not bad, everyone is doing it ... from the Taiwanese, Koreans, ..to the Chinese and Brazilians. There is no desire, there is no money for it ... and the most unpleasant thing is that there is no time for it, in the 18th year it may be so .. it will no longer be up to its diesels and high-speed trains to replace the same Chinese ones. All the same, managed to tear ... all polymers .. laughing
  34. divangeneral
    divangeneral 17 November 2015 11: 19 New
    0
    Quote: Jack-B
    Now the main thing is not to slow down your accumulated pace. Let's make our engines, we will put our own. I look at it that way.


    yes, you dear, dear
    just like a defective manager gavarite
    But you know, it’s easier to just do not make your own engines, if you can just buy from Chinese partners?
    and they won’t do their own thing. will stupidly buy Chinese gamno
  35. divangeneral
    divangeneral 17 November 2015 11: 21 New
    +1
    Quote: lopvlad
    At the moment, a contract for their supply has already been concluded, and the diesel engines of our Chinese partners will already be installed on the next ships of the 22460 project

    shitty is all. From dependence on ukrov, Germans, French to dependence on Chinese and others.
    Who can guarantee that tomorrow or the day after tomorrow the Chinese will not refuse to supply us with engines, for example, for refusing to sell them modern technologies in the production of something?
    You need to think with your head so as not to rumble the hulls of ships without engines on the stocks and in the docks of factories.


    try to be consistent to the end in your logic
    and you will understand that this is just a drain of the remnants of Russian industry
    Putin’s liquidation and funeral team at work
  36. LIS 2590
    LIS 2590 17 November 2015 11: 22 New
    0
    is it so import substitution? belay
  37. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 17 November 2015 12: 05 New
    0
    With ship diesels, it was also difficult for the USSR. German diesel engines are structurally simpler than ours, but they have better metal and more accurate casting. China will produce diesel ship and tank - MTU. Only here, under a license or not, I’m not ready to say.
  38. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 17 November 2015 12: 50 New
    +2
    Quote: Maxom75
    the official will answer with his freedom and life for the result, he will work for the result, not the pocket.

    Чтобы так было - нужен Сталин. После его смерти осталось личного имущества - сапоги, шинель и китель. Это никак не сравнить с 26ю дворцами на двоих "нашего гаранта" и "айфона". В воровской власти чиновника интересует именно свой карман, тем более никакого спроса и ответственности нет.
  39. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 17 November 2015 13: 15 New
    0
    The main difficulty is the precise casting of the cylinder block. This is a separate production, profitable only with serial production.
  40. gg.na
    gg.na 17 November 2015 13: 46 New
    0
    The Chinese have good and very high quality things. I hope the engine will be at the proper level of quality! For now, let them be similar to these engines later on and develop our own. But there will be something to compare! wink
  41. glavnykarapuz
    glavnykarapuz 17 November 2015 16: 55 New
    +1
    With diesel engines from the Chinese, the expected story is quite expected.
    К сожалению, по взмаху "волшебной палочки" и даже кучей "бабла" развал производства судовых дизелей и прочего оборудования(думаю, у нас проблемы не только с отечественными моторами для судов, но и с кучей сопутствующего оборудования) в столь короткие сроки не восстановить.
    Especially the problem (this is practically in all industries) is in engineering and highly qualified workers, the old ones are already leaving (many, alas, according to statistics, do not live up to retirement), and the youth are not attracted by such small salaries and lack of support for housing and other social services.
    Кроме того, так называемая "реформа образования" настолько снизила порог как общей так и технической грамотности нынешних выпускников учебных заведений(как средне специальных так и высших) что после получения заветной "корочки" большинство из них не имеют даже "закладки" по теоретическим знаниям(хотя бы просто понимания технических и физических процессов), отсутствие практического опыта ещё можно понять(кроме рабочих специальностей, но и там практика весьма условна и низкого качества). Нынешний "краснодипломник"из тех. вуза(даже столичного) не тянет даже на "троечника" из советского прошлого, более того банальная безграмотность даже таких "отличников" поражает - элементарно не умеют грамотно писать по русски, про технические вопросы вообще молчу. Я не берусь утверждать, что данное моё частное видение можно приложить ко всем молодым людям, но смотря вокруг себя, ощущение что процент таких многократно выше чем было при Союзе только усиливается с каждым годом.
    Думаю так же играет свою пагубную роль отсутствие реальной практики у нынешних молодых инженеров и конструкторов. Их банально не берут на работу, т.к по дикому закону капитализма работодателям нужны бездетные, молодые, но имеющий опыт работы в половину своего оного возраста, со знанием английского, французского и суахили, которые работают за еду и "корпоративный дух" компании, конечно же с дикими переработками.
    Кроме того есть проблема руководства над технарями дико "далёких от темы" гуманитариев. У нас и в правителсьве такое практикуется широко.
    По итогу вышесказанного(не всё конечно расписал), откуда может возникнуть это пресловутое "импортозамещение" даже в оборонке, если просто продукты питания нормального качества не производят(дело там не только в законах и контроле, сами предприниматели такие "хапуги" в большинстве)??
    1. TOR2
      TOR2 17 November 2015 21: 21 New
      +1
      Engine building in the USSR was also not up to par. The gap with the West only widened all the time. Today this is a problem along with such industries as machine tools, microelectronics, we still have to solve it.
      Quote: glavnykarapuz
      Кроме того, так называемая "реформа образования" настолько снизила порог как общей так и технической грамотности нынешних выпускников учебных заведений(как средне специальных так и высших)

      In addition to educational reform, a large role is played by a drop in demand for knowledge. And when people do not need knowledge, the education system begins to degrade at an accelerated pace.
  42.  pistons
    pistons 17 November 2015 18: 11 New
    0
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: Jack-B
    http://www.gks.ru/bgd/free/b04_03/IssWWW.exe/Stg/d06/213.htm

    By your link, I liked the breadth of accounting for the active population.
    Economically Active Population+15 years (labor force)
    15 years is the initial threshold, I was not mistaken? And the upper bar 72 years? With an average life expectancy of 66 years? Why are teenagers and pensioners taken into account when calculating unemployment?
    And yet, with surprise for myself, I found that in the Samara region unemployment is the lowest (2,4%), after St. Petersburg and Moscow (1,9%). It’s even ridiculous, since they are proposing to go to Chechnya (17,1%) and the Far East as shortened from VAZ. The lowest% in the Far East is 3,3%, which is still higher than in the Samara region. Paradox. request
    P.S. Calculations are made only according to the employment service, and not all apply there.

    It is necessary to look at employment by areas of activity.
    for 2013-2014, a decrease in agriculture by 164 thousand .. in manufacturing by 140 thousand for 2014-2015 there is no data yet