Military Review

Updated "Admiral Nakhimov": when "Ohio" and "Zumvalty" are not terrible

61



So far, the project of the promising heavy destroyer air defense / missile defense 23560E Shkval exists only on paper and in computerized 3D-modeling programs of the Krylov State Scientific Center (KSCC), the most powerful and advanced ships fleet the upgraded heavy nuclear missile cruisers, Project 1144 Orlan, and the more compact and technologically advanced frigates Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov will remain. At least until 2025, these warships will be the main instruments of air defense / missile defense and fleet strike operations on an ocean theater in likely major regional military conflicts.

To date, the most developed ship of the project "Orlan" is the flagship of the Northern Fleet of Russia TARKR "Peter the Great". The ship is distinguished by the most balanced composition of shock and defensive armament complexes, where the C-300F “brahter kar” (48H6E) and C-300FM Fort-M (ZNR 48H6X2) and “Dagger” are able to provide for the cover of the body armor's bodywork. in which friendly ships dispersed within a radius of 30-35 km from the flagship (this range is due to the small radio horizon at the surface), high-altitude targets can be hit within a radius of 160 km and at speeds up to 6500 km / h.

In the photo, the vertical built-in eight-dimensional launcher of the revolving type B-203А of the C-300F "Fort" complex. Each TLU accommodates 8 standard TPK for the 48Н6Е / 5В55РМ SAM, and the launch of the SAM to the launch corridor (hatch in the TLU cap) is performed by rotating the drum with TLC. It is worth noting that this design is much more reliable than the design of individual hatches of the American UHPU Mk41, in which the ammunition load and the edges of the WPC may be damaged by a fragmentation warhead warhead missile or any other tactical ammunition. In the B-203, significant damage can be caused mainly to the missile, which is derived to the position of the launching hatch. And the TLU B-203A themselves are located at some distance from each other, which is good in the designs of most missile systems


The C-300F KZRK modification, installed in the stern of the ship, differs only in the 48HNNUMXE SAM, which is unified with the C-6PMU-300 ground attack system (its range is 1 km), and also the C-150F has a slightly lower velocity of the target (300F) km ) due to lower energy and scanning performance MRLS 1300R3 "Wave" (a takeover target at a distance of 41 93 km against km for the C-160FM) also 300R3 - 41-hkanalny radar and 3R4 - 48-channel. The maximum speed of the targeted target for the C-6F SAM systems, limited by 1300 m / s (4700 km / h), indicates that the complex is no longer ready to effectively stop the strikes of promising hypersonic air-assault weapons, which include such missiles as X-300A. Waverider ”,“ Fort-M ”is still able to fight with such goals. But C-51F is still quite capable of such goals as the PLLR AGM-300 “HARM”, “ALARM”, the anti-ship “Harpoons” and other missiles, and therefore is quite ready for the likely war of “today”. The lack of combat capabilities of this complex for the war of the near future outlined the necessary framework for the modernization of the air defense image of the Orlan cruisers, which are already underway.

A similar situation was observed with six KZRAK 3M87 "Dirk", covered the immediate borders of nuclear-powered cruiser "Peter the Great" and "Admiral Nakhimov", despite the high-performance computing facilities CVM governing MSA 3S87 modules allowing SAM 3M11 / 3M11-1 intercept 6 targets per minute, flying at 500 speed m / s. The indicators are impressive to this day, given that the American "Ticonderogs" and "Arly Burke" nothing but the ineffective "Volcano-Falanks" is not observed. But the "Kortikov" in the conditions of the modern MRAU will be completely insufficient.

The low speed of the targets hit for the Dirk (1800 km / h) allows you to intercept only subsonic anti-ship missiles and some air-to-surface missiles in the final leg of the flight, where their speed is about 1,5M (these include short-range tactical missiles JAGM, anti-ship modifications AGM -65F “Maverick”, as well as “SLAM-ER” missiles and “Harpoon”, “LRASM” anti-ship missiles), but there is an unpleasant snag: 3М311 SAM has an altitudinal reach of about 3700 m and 8 km range for standard targets of the RGM type -84 “Harpoon”. The promising low-profile LRASM missiles have an EPR near 0,05 m2, and therefore it will take more time to destroy them, which will affect the overall survivability of the ship during a massive enemy missile attack (all hope is on the Kortik complex).

BM ZRAK 3М87 "Dirk" launches anti-aircraft missile 9М311. Radio command guidance strictly at the command of a precisely directed RLPK and optoelectronic complex does not allow the rocket to intercept the most highly manoeuvrable means of air attack. The rocket is able to maneuver only within the 0,7-kilometer spatial corridor, passing the solid angle of sight of the 3М87 sighting systems, while the maximum speed of the targeted target for the standard version of the Cortica is no more than 7 units, which is absolutely not enough to fight against promising anti-ship missiles. In opposition to such tactical CDs as SLAM-ER or “Harpoon” anti-ship missiles, the system is still fully operational. The latest modification of the Kortik-M is offered along with the central radar for detecting and targeting the Positiv-МE1.2, which significantly increases the performance of a system of several BM 3М87


Another short-range KZRK is the Dagger. The complex forms the middle line of defense of our supercraisers, and, in my opinion, practically has no flaws. Vertical built-in drum PU revolving type 4C95 have a high structural similarity with the TLU B-204А (С-300М complex). Such TLUs allow for the implementation of a more reliable and full-range application of the 9М330-2 missiles, unified with the 9М331 missiles from the Tor-M1 armament set. The MRLS with the HEADLIGHTS, located at the K-12-1 antenna post, allows the Dagger to simultaneously fire at 4 air targets at a distance of 12000 m and speed of 2500 km / h. An important feature of the complex is an automated control system that allows it to work without participation of the calculation.

Most powerful in stories PKR P-700 "Granit", presented by 20 underfloor inclined PU CM-233 with heavy "smart" PCR 3М-45, and today is a formidable weapons capable of breaking through the air defense system organized by the shipboard Aegis BIUS based on the Standard – 2 / 3 KZRK. The 3M-45 missiles have a developed intelligent group application system and the ability to perform energetic anti-aircraft maneuvers on the way up to the target, but against such KZRK as the European “PAAMS” or the Japanese-Dutch version “ESSM” (“Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile”) of the “Granit” rocket may have much lower efficiency, not to mention the B-500 “Basalt” type missiles. The above “Aster-30” (“PAAMS”) and RIM-162 (“ESSM”) missiles are characterized by excellent maneuverability (55 - 62 units) due to the use of gas-dynamic transverse control engines for the first one and for the secondary body with the second, thanks to which they are able to withstand and CRP 3M-45. Thus, the “PAAMS” air defense missile system of the British Daring class (Type 45) destroyers is distinguished by the most powerful MRLS “Sampson”, which allows simultaneously to fire at 12 air targets and accompany around 1000. The detection range can be up to 400 km (targets with 3-4 m2 EPR), and the ESSM SAMs of the Japanese destroyers Akizuki and EM helicopter carriers Hyuga are even more advanced: they are based on the high-performance antenna post with the 4-radar SLCC -3A (AFAR), and each side has a large antenna array (detection and tracking) and small (backlight), they work in the decimeter and centimeter ranges, respectively, the actual firing capacity of the complex (around 30 targets simultaneously) is much higher than that of " Aegis a ”, since the latter formally has 3 to 4 channels, depending on the number of 1-channel radar AN / SPG-62, the official number“ 18 ”is just the number of corrected RIM-67 in the air. The radar FCS-3A corresponds to the parameters of the Russian MRLS “Polyment” and the Dutch APAR, developed by the companies “Thales” and “Mitsubishi Electronics”.

Based on the above parameters of armaments and avionics of modern warships of developed fleets, it is possible to make a disappointing conclusion that the overall combat potential of the surface component of the Russian Navy has many flaws, which can be corrected only by accelerating the pace of construction of new ships and at the moment it is happening with TARKR pr. 1144.2 "Admiral Nakhimov", which 12 has been idle for years at the pier of OAO PO Sevmash, waiting for at least some plans for its further fate.

And in December 2011, the further direction of work on one of the best warships in history was clarified. The then General Director of Sevmash, Andrei Dyachkov, said that the work on improving the Admiral Nakhimov cruiser, which would begin as early as 2012, would primarily affect the expansion of the rocket armament range, and a significant improvement in the parameters of the onboard electronic equipment of the ship, which gave an overview of his future appearance and appointment in the Russian Navy.

At first, it was believed that the updated Nakhimov air defense system - PRO would be represented by the C-400 air defense missile system, but just a few days ago it became known that the element base would remain the same, with the only difference being that the upgraded cruiser will receive equivalent bow and stern ships The S-300FM “Fort-M” air defense missile system with significantly increased combat capabilities in comparison with those installed on the Peter the Great TARKR and all RKR Atlant 1164 (Glory class).

TARKR "Admiral Nakhimov" in the dry dock "Sevmash". The photo clearly shows that the main antenna post DRLO (RLK "Sunrise") is dismantled. It is likely that it will be replaced by a much more modern and accurate radar type "Podberezovik-E"


Tactical and technical parameters of the "Fort" is planned to increase at the expense of improvements in software and mathematical control algorithm MRLS 4R48, including an increase in capacity and energy potential PFAR, as well as through the introduction of ammunition, not only does anti-aircraft missiles 5V55RM, 48N6E / E2 but completely new long-range missiles 48H6DMK with active radar seeker, which will finally open up new opportunities for the air defense of our fleet, which is slightly lower. Information on the modernization of Fort-M at Admiral Nakhimov appeared thanks to the Sevmash procurement website, where at the end of 2014, data were published regarding the Sevmash contract with the Almaz Scientific and Production Association for the supply of two Fort-M complexes "Total cost of about 5 billion rubles.

WHAT IS THE SECRET OF SUCCESS OF THE MODERNIZED FORT-M VERSION?

It is quite clear that sometimes a small correction and refinement of the existing architecture can be much more profitable and faster than complex restructuring, especially since new, much more attractive projects are already on the horizon. This is also the case with Nakhimov in the light of the first developments and plans for the Squall project of the super-destroyer Ave. XNUME. “Sevmash” acted quite prudently, not to install the C-23560 or Polimen-Redut complex on the cruiser, because the installation of absolutely new equipment, including the fitting of the TLU B-400A caliber to the 203X9X96 or 2X9 caliber, as well as the installation of new the firing MRLS would have resulted in absolutely astronomical sums exceeding 100 billion rubles; and at stake were spending on replacing the ship's anti-ship missile system.

The 48H6DMK anti-aircraft missiles that will be part of the Admiral Nakhimov updated Forts are the most radically modernized modifications of the well-known 48H6Х2 / Е3. Their maximum range is increased by 50 km and is 250 km, but unlike the previous ones, it is equipped with ARGSN, which will allow our cruiser to conduct full-fledged over-the-horizon shelling of low-flying air targets, which will be greatly facilitated.

For missiles equipped with a semi-active radar GPS, constant illumination of a multi-purpose ground or shipborne radar is required, which for high accuracy of the missile defense system to reach the target should work exclusively in G / X (centimeter) or even at higher frequency bands , the US Patriot AN / MPQ-30 complex on-load tap-changer, and anti-aircraft missiles with active radar seeker only need to correct the missile’s flight (target designation) on the cruise and final trajectory; ARGSN interceptor missiles (usually work on the J / X / G-bands). When shooting beyond the horizon at a cruise missile, RCC or UAV, targeting missiles with active hf is greatly simplified, since for conventional target designation (not to be confused with light and accurate auto tracking) almost any ground, air or sea radar can be used, including S-or E-range radars. At such frequencies, many surveillance radars, including Fregat-MAE / M6E type surveyed radar, ground-based 3НХNUMXЕ round-robin satellites, as well as the radar stations of the RTR Nebo-M mobile complex, A-41 and D-AO helicopter, and 4. In other words, targeting a missile at a target can be accomplished by any multi-purpose fighter or a flying radar, in the zone and radius of which the air target is located, which is unattainable for shipborne radar weapons due to low radio horizon.

At these frequencies, Sampson radars of British EM Dering and EMPAR French frigates La Fayette function. But there is also a lack of S-band type of target designation: a two-way or one-way MRLS cannot adjust the convergence with a target at the time of turning the antenna array, when the radiation pattern for a moment leaves the direction of the missile to see if at that moment ARGSN gives a fault, the radar may not have time to correct the missile again on the target, so the concept of shipboard defense, in which SAM systems are equipped with ARGSN, and the MRLS work in the X-band, continues to be the most advanced. Such a principle will be applied just in the improved Fort-M KZRK and the new Polyment-Redut complexes. The most well-known foreign example of such KZRK can be considered the Israeli “Barak-8”, which is installed on board the Indian destroyers of the 15A Ave. “Calcutta”.

The use of long-range missiles 48H6DMK as a means of over-the-horizon interception in the Nakhimov ammunition will make the survivability of the NG CG of the Northern Fleet higher than ever before, in my opinion all ships of the 1144 and 1164 projects must be reequipped for such ZUR. The high-speed flight of the ZNUMXN48E family of missiles (up to 6 km / h) allows you to intercept almost any speed targets in pursuit, which only such systems as the Patriot PAC-7000 and SM-2 can do today. So, for example, in the US Navy, the advantages of over-the-horizon interception were seen a long time ago and even several large ocean tests were conducted with the participation of the Aegis system ships, the last of which was held in the autumn of 3.

The American missile cruiser “Chancellorsville” (CG 62) of the “Ticonderoga” class launched two new SM-6 ERAM (RIM-174) anti-aircraft guided missiles at a remote out-of-horizon target. carrier "Chancellorsville", then control over the radio link tactical communications "Link-99" passed to "Aegis" - the destroyer DDG 16 "Sampson", which had already made the final targeting in his area of ​​view, - a classic of the genre of network-centric warfare. Low-altitude LA-imitators of anti-ship missiles were successfully intercepted, which suggests the correct concept of the implementation of over-the-horizon qualities of sea-based anti-aircraft missile systems.

As I mentioned at the beginning of the article, the long-range characteristics of the Dirk “Dirk”, as well as their very low speed of the target to be hit, will not allow to confidently “hold” the ship’s near line from the blows of modern high-speed EHVs, therefore it was decided to re-equip the Admiral Nakhimov with an upgraded version of the famous ZRAK - “Kortik-M” (3М87-1), which differs from the standard “Dirk” by the upgraded element base of the RLPK and OLPK, as well as the possibility of using two quadruple quadruple systems with the 57Е6 complex "Pantsir-С1" or "Pantsir-M" ("Mace").

These missiles have a maximum range of 20 km and an interception ceiling of 15 km, and the maximum speed of the targeted target is 1000 m / s, which makes it possible to shoot down six combat modules not only of the 36 flying PKR or PRLR, but also ballistic objects at speeds of 3600 km / h. However, in the standard “Kortik” configuration with 3М311 / -1 missiles, the number of target channels will not be lower than 6, and the speed of the target being hit will increase to 900 m with an appropriate refinement of the radio-electronic part of the RLC of the combat module and the installation of a higher-quality matrix optical-electronic sight. / s, it is these target speed limits that are indicated for the 3М311 SAM in the relevant literature of authoritative sources.

The second most important advantage of KZRK Kortik is the developed aerodynamic controls of the 9М331 SAMs, which allow it to intercept targets maneuvering with overload up to 11ed.


KZRK "Dagger" is a kind of integral part of self-defense both on ships of small displacement and on Nakhimov. Unlike the Pantsir-M and Kortik-M anti-aircraft missile and artillery complexes, the Dagger is an all-view system, in fact, like all versions of the Fort. 9М331 anti-aircraft missiles are located in vertical launchers 4C95. The rocket has a vertical ejection type of launch with a further inclination towards the target in the initial accelerating part of the trajectory. Vertical launching completely removes the restrictions on the zones of shelling of the Dagger EC, which are observed in all ship-based SPACE, shooting only at the targets in sight (direct fire), which on combat ships is limited to the architecture of the superstructures: for example, combat modules. "Installed on the right side of the stern of the ship, will not be able to fire on anti-ship missiles flying up from the side of the left side, or from the direction of 30 degrees from the longitudinal axis from the front hemisphere (this zone overlaps the main Adstroykoy), "Dagger" and the new air defense system "Shtil" have no such problems.

Special attention is also riveted to the new universal shock anti-ship missile system, which according to the statements of specialists will become the most advanced means of air attack of a naval theater. From now on, 20 heavy P-700 anti-ship missiles, which can be easily intercepted by Aster-15 / 30 or RIM-162 ESSM missiles, will be replaced with more advanced weapons - Onyx and Caliber-NK family anti-ship missiles, work on the universal built-in PUs are maintained by the “KB of special engineering” at the request of Sevmash. It is known that “Admiral Nakhimov” will receive 10 octopus UHFU ZS-14-chem NNXX-less caliber 11442 mm (diameter of the fuselage of the Onyx 670М3 rocket), which can also be equipped with more “thin” 55-3E-type anti-ship missile system with the -year control system. , including the long-range version 54М1 (analogue of "Tomahawk"), and the promising hypersonic RCC 3K-14 "Zircon"; The UHF of the ship will now be designed for 3 prospective anti-ship and strategic cruise missiles that can not only penetrate any conceivable and inconceivable air defense of NATO AUG OVMS, but also deliver crushing blows at enemy command ground points at a distance of 22 km, which was demonstrated by the Caspian Flotilla in a massive rocket attack on the positions of the IG.

CRC 3М55 "Onyx" is much more compact than 3М45 "Granit", their flight speed at an altitude of 20 meters by 500 km / h is higher, maneuverability by a dozen "G" exceeds the "Granite" indicator, below and radar visibility, therefore, intercept such the object is hardly “in the teeth” even of the “sophisticated” SAM “Aster-30”. The impact of the Onyxes will be much more swift and complex than the “skullcapes” “Harpoons” and “LRASMs”, especially considering the fact that all American SAM systems of the SM-2 family have low speed of flight (3,5М) and mediocre maneuverability. At the same time, our SFG of the SF, led by the advanced Nakhimov, the frigate Admiral Gorshkov and the modified BOD Ave 1155, Udaly, will be able to crush any American AUG within a radius of 500 km.

The most formidable strike naval armament of the US Navy, in addition to SSBNs, are Ohio-class multipurpose nuclear submarines and the low-profile attack destroyers Zamvolt. SSGN “Ohio” strategic submarine-carrying submarines, including SSBNs with re-equipment for Tomahawks and silos, can carry up to 154 SLCM BGM-109C / D with a range up to 1000 km, and Zumwalt's 80 to 109 SCRMB BGM-XNM CHMB D-XN CHMB, and EM “Zumwalt” - up to 2500 SCRMB BGM-XNM CHMB DGN CHMB / XNMX / CHNB CHMB, and ZMW “ZHMW” in UVPU Mk57. Also on the 56 "Tomahawks" can take on board all 65 EM "Arly Burke", which leaves a huge imprint on the further modernization of the naval structure of the air defense of the Russian fleet.

Mine launchers of the "Trident-II D5" 4 ICBMs of the Ohio submarine missile-carriers, re-equipped into 7-powered TLUs SKRMB BGM-109C "Tomohawk". In accordance with the START-2, 4, Ohio-class submarines were turned into multipurpose Tomahawk 616 attack missile systems on board, including: Ohio, Florida, Georgia and Michigan; These submarines have become one of the most formidable and secretive underwater strike systems of the US Navy.


After the launch of the Admiral Nakhimov TARKR, the Northern Fleet will finally acquire all the qualities characteristic of modern naval groups, strengthen these qualities and the new frigates of 22350 Ave., but after that only half of the way to the formation of the future fleet will be completed, as SF - a group of regional importance capable of providing guarantees of security only for parts of the Arctic and Atlantic frontiers of our state, while for a full strategic balance with the West in the area of ​​responsibility of the Pacific Fleet, the Baltic Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet is neo We only need to accelerate the production of new destroyers of the Squall project, which in the foreseeable future will completely replace our honorable "veterans" - the Orlans and Atlants.
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  1. PPD
    PPD 16 November 2015 06: 54 New
    13
    And great!
    How much can ships scatter !!
    It is necessary to save, restore and increase at least something!
    1. umah
      umah 16 November 2015 15: 07 New
      +8
      "Sevmash" acted quite prudently, not becoming installed on the cruiser complex C-400

      I used to think that the modernization of ships is carried out as follows:
      - Required requirements for the modernized project
      - Designers work out, create and protect the updated project
      - A construction or repair plant embodies the modernization of the project.

      And while reading the article, I learn that everything is at the discretion of the plant: if they wanted to - they pricked up a new radar station, they wanted to - they replaced one air defense system with another.
      1. Kalmar
        Kalmar 16 November 2015 16: 35 New
        +9
        And while reading the article, I learn that everything is at the discretion of the plant: if they wanted to - they pricked up a new radar station, they wanted to - they replaced one air defense system with another.

        I strongly doubt that they themselves made such decisions. After all, the result of such an initiative is always the same: the customer refuses to sign the acceptance certificate and, accordingly, pay money. Who needs such risks?

        Most likely, Sevmash simply objectively assessed the feasibility of installing the S-400 on a cruiser, shared its findings with the military, and there they decided collegially that it would not grow together with the S-400.
        1. umah
          umah 16 November 2015 17: 01 New
          0
          All such issues are resolved at the design stage and agreed with the customer. And all this with the alteration of estimates and design documentation. I was just skewed by how the author just does it.
          1. Kalmar
            Kalmar 16 November 2015 22: 20 New
            +1
            All such issues are resolved at the design stage and coordination with the customer.

            "It was smooth on paper, but forgot about the ravines" :)

            This happens all the time: at the design / approval stage everything looked more or less even, and then the subcontractors did not have time to complete their part of the work, then some sudden underwater rakes were discovered, or something else. And you have to redraw the project on the fly, in the end, to get at least something sensible.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Russian Uzbek
        Russian Uzbek 16 November 2015 16: 53 New
        -6
        an amateur wrote an article don't take it to heart
      4. Dart2027
        Dart2027 16 November 2015 19: 49 New
        +6
        As Academician Spassky said, if the design bureau, the fleet and the factory do not quarrel, then the project is worthless
      5. Ustinov 055 055
        Ustinov 055 055 24 March 2016 11: 09 New
        0
        I’ll tell you 1 secret when in your campaign 1 desalination plant does not work and the second one spends a ton of fuel per ton of water, it’s not even a matter of rockets. We saw these modernizers, they cannot make a desalination plant, I am silent already about the replacement of more complex systems. Friends WHEN ALREADY there are normal professionals and they upgrade 2 and 080 upon and not BLABBLABLA
      6. Ustinov 055 055
        Ustinov 055 055 24 March 2016 11: 09 New
        0
        I’ll tell you 1 secret when in your campaign 1 desalination plant does not work and the second one spends a ton of fuel per ton of water, it’s not even a matter of rockets. We saw these modernizers, they cannot make a desalination plant, I am silent already about the replacement of more complex systems. Friends WHEN ALREADY there are normal professionals and they upgrade 2 and 080 upon and not BLABBLABLA
    2. Civil
      Civil 16 November 2015 16: 34 New
      +2
      I just can’t wait for the updated Nakhimov! good
  2. AlNikolaich
    AlNikolaich 16 November 2015 07: 33 New
    +1
    Now Oleg Kaptsov will come and ... am
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 16 November 2015 07: 41 New
      +3
      Now Oleg Kaptsov will come and ...


      The article is interesting and informative and it will be interesting to read the opponent.
    2. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 16 November 2015 08: 13 New
      +7
      The author of the article is inaccurate
      SAM “PAAMS” of the English destroyers of the “Daring” class air defense (Type 45) is distinguished by the powerful “Sampson” radar, which makes it possible to simultaneously fire at 12 air targets and accompany about 1000

      British destroyer has two radars

      powerful S1850M able to see targets in space :, surveillance radar decimeter (S) range (anthracite black, aft)

      and a centimeter X-band radar for tracking the Sampson horizon (a ball at the top of the foremast). It is not as powerful as the first (in fact, it does not need to search for targets beyond a couple of tens of kilometers). About correctly installed at an altitude of Xnumx meters above water. High data refresh rate - especially against low flying CR

      Both radars have active phased array antennas (AFAR)
      At these frequencies, the Sampson radars of the British EM type Daring and the EMPAR of the French frigates La Fayet operate. But there is also a drawback of the S-band type of target designation: two-sided or one-sided radar systems cannot correct the proximity with the target at the time of rotation of the antenna array

      here is complete nonsense
      1. as stated above, sampson does not work in S-band, for that there is S1850M
      2. What is the relationship of the number of antenna posts with the working range of the radar. No. as in a joke - "Horse, chair, 28"
      there are rotating antenna posts of a radar of any range, there are motionless PFAR / AFAR
      four HEADLIGHTS at the Aegis - S-band
      four HEADLIGHTS of Japanese Akizuki - X-band (centimeter)
      At first, it was believed that the updated Nakhimov air defense missile defense system would be represented by the marine version of the S-400 air defense system, but just a few days ago it became known that the element base would remain the same, with the only difference being that the upgraded cruiser would receive equivalent bow and stern ship S-300FM Fort-M

      This is because the allocated funds, as usual, were stolen.

      as a result, instead of an ambitious modernization program, they put rusty junk of the mid-90 level, the ancient radar Fregat, etc.
      with such air defense / missile defense and detection tools Nakhimov Daring is not a competitor
      1. Malkor
        Malkor 16 November 2015 08: 57 New
        -2
        can not hear how the volley of onyx is going to repulse the British destroyer, radar?
        horse, chair, 28 - this is just about you
        1. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 16 November 2015 09: 05 New
          -1
          Quote: Malkor
          can not hear how the volley of onyx is going to repulse the British destroyer, radar?

        2. Falcon
          Falcon 16 November 2015 13: 24 New
          +1
          Quote: Malkor
          can not hear how the volley of onyx is going to repulse the British destroyer, radar?


          You are based on this statement by the author:

          Quote: Author
          Intercepting such an object is hardly "tough" even for the "sophisticated" Aster-30 missiles


          It is not clear from what it follows only. Aircraft radars see EPR 0,1 for 150 km. What can we say about ship megawatts, which they should see against the backdrop of literally "space" at 20km 2,5 ton carcass? The most classic goal for Astera - for which Aster was created, Standards, etc.

          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          The author of the article is inaccurate


          I liked it more
          Quote: Author
          High speed flight missiles 48N6Е family (up to 7000 km / h)


          And what is not 10000 km / h at once. Just such an ultrahard sound rocket. We then will not need S-500 PRO ...
          1. patsantre
            patsantre 16 November 2015 16: 20 New
            -2
            Quote: Falcon
            Aircraft radars see an EPR of 0,1 m per 150 km.

            Here is a dreamer.
            1. Falcon
              Falcon 16 November 2015 20: 32 New
              +3
              Quote: patsantre
              Here is a dreamer.


              For specials:





              x * 0,5623 = 400 * 1,316.

              EPR detection range 0,1m radar Irbis 170km.
              wink
      2. Fulcrumxnumx
        16 November 2015 13: 20 New
        +2
        In the "specialist", dabble in decent sources, Table. on "Paralay", etc., and logically think, if there is one, "Sampson" works in the S-band, and most Western MRLSs work in this range if the SAM systems of the complex are equipped with ARGSN, since ARGSN do not need constant backlight X-band radar. In Akizuki, of course, FCS-3A works in the CM (X) -band, since the RIM-162 SAMs with PARGSN and need continuous illumination. And the overview S1850M does not work in the S-band, but in the lower D-band (1-2 GHz) ..!
    3. Kvazar
      Kvazar 16 November 2015 22: 02 New
      0
      and why he should come the ship is armored, it is a pity only because of overloading the 150mm armor, the belt had to be cut out and go for other booking measures). Although they could have let go of disu that he is not there). Just with these boats everything is fine)
  3. Mera joota
    Mera joota 16 November 2015 07: 44 New
    +9
    "Everything mixed up in the house of Oblonsky ..."
    Oh, how the author likes to sprinkle with indices ... Confusing to horror.
    Each VPU contains 8 standard TPKs for 48N6E / 5V55RM missiles, and the missiles exit to the launch corridor (the hatch in the VPU hood) by rotating the drum with the TPK. It is worth noting that this design is much more reliable than the design of the individual hatches of the American UVP Mk41, in which the ammunition and the edges of the TPK can be damaged by a rupture of a fragmentation warhead of an anti-radar missile or any other tactical munition. In B-203, significant damage can be caused mainly by the rocket that is brought to the position of the launch hatch.

    Zhuuuut. Why exactly anti-radar missiles? Maybe I’m clinging, but the rumor is already cutting ... Why not just write a warhead of ammunition? What is the type of warhead carrier?
    And why is it a rotary drum structure (whose rotary mechanism can be jammed, as the author puts it, “breaking a fragmentation warhead of an anti-radar missile”) is more reliable than an armored UVP Mk41 in which damage to one cell does not affect the performance of neighboring ones?
    The limited 1300 m / s (4700 km / h) maximum speed of the target being hit for the S-300F air defense system indicates that the complex is no longer ready to effectively “stop” the strikes of promising hypersonic air attack weapons, which include missiles such as the X-51A " Waverider ",

    X-51A "Waverider" experimental rocket for engine development. Why stop it?
  4. Mera joota
    Mera joota 16 November 2015 07: 57 New
    +1
    Modification KZRK S-300F, installed in the stern of the ship, differs only in the modification of SAM 48N6E

    As far as I understand, we are talking about the ship of the Order of Nakhimov atomic cruiser "Peter the Great" b / n 099 Project 1144 "Orlan" (in imitation of the author). As if knowing the layout of weapons on this ship, I thought for a long time, maybe I missed something in my age and some abuse of alcohol. It seems that in the aft part of the ship there is a below-deck helicopter hangar and a towed ASG of considerable size ... where is the notorious S-300F missile defense complex?
  5. Mera joota
    Mera joota 16 November 2015 08: 07 New
    +2
    When shooting horizontally at targets such as a cruise missile, anti-ship missile or UAV, guiding missiles with an active seeker is significantly simplified, since almost any ground, air or sea based radar system can be used for conventional target designation (not to be confused with illumination and accurate auto tracking), including S- or E-band radars. In other words, targeting a missile at a target can be performed by any multi-role fighter or flying radar, in the area and radius of view of which there is an air target unattainable for naval radar air defense systems due to the small radio horizon.

    Yeah ... The author somehow forgets to mention the need for a data transfer system compatible between the missile and the guidance ...
    1. Fulcrumxnumx
      16 November 2015 13: 25 New
      -2
      Do not worry, if the transfer of the WTO flight control between the Super Hornet and the F-35A has already been worked out, then we will not have any difficulties with the system linking of EHV and various carriers ..
  6. NEXUS
    NEXUS 16 November 2015 09: 31 New
    +5
    The article is interesting. Especially in the installation section of Zircon project rockets on Nakhimych. There is one inaccuracy regarding the long-range Caliber-NK, where the author writes about a range of up to 1500 km. Let's just say this is the demonstrated range of Caliber, but the numbers were called up to 4000 km and even up to 5000 km.
    Best regards hi
  7. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 16 November 2015 09: 33 New
    +2
    it is only necessary to accelerate the production of new destroyers of the Flurry project, which in the foreseeable future will completely replace our honorable "veterans" - the Orlanes and Atlantes.
    What are the Flurry destroyers ?! There is no destroyer "Flurry", except for the layout - this is known to everyone who is at least a bit in the subject. Developments are only for the destroyer "Leader" and it is not known when the project will be ready.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 16 November 2015 09: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: Stirbjorn
      What are the Flurry destroyers ?! There is no destroyer "Flurry", except for the layout - this is known to everyone who is at least a bit in the subject. Developments are only for the destroyer "Leader" and it is not known when the project will be ready.

      The leader is also only in the layout so far. And as for the Flurry, many agree that it will be an export destroyer. Although, in my opinion, our fleets need destroyers with a nuclear power plant and a gas turbine power plant.
      Best regards hi
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 16 November 2015 12: 59 New
        +4
        Development work on the "Leader" was included in the state defense order last year. That is, real funding has been allocated for them. It is not the first year that the Northern Bureau has been engaged in it. A flurry was provided by the Krylov Research Institute, simply as a PR move in fact. There are no serious developments there, for this it is necessary to disrupt financing. In the meantime, a purely advertising product in the form of a layout. As well as udk Surf or Avalanche there, as well as an aircraft carrier. Well, it’s not serious to discuss layouts. hi
        I do not believe in Squall's export prospects either, because the destroyer is a very expensive ship, piece goods can be said - a few countries are ready to order it. And the fact that he is currently worth nothing - well, who will order it? It's easier to wait for work on the Leader.
        1. Eugene-Eugene
          Eugene-Eugene 16 November 2015 16: 45 New
          0
          Regarding the UDC, you are in a hurry with the conclusions - let's look at the construction program 2016.
  8. marinier
    marinier 16 November 2015 11: 07 New
    +1
    GOOD time of day, Dear!
    In my opinion, the modernization resource of the above-described ships did not exhaust itself.
    This is especially true with regards to systems for early warning and detection of the enemy.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. atalef
      atalef 16 November 2015 11: 18 New
      0
      Quote: marinier
      GOOD time of day, Dear!
      In my opinion, the modernization resource of the above-described ships did not exhaust itself.
      This is especially true with regards to systems for early warning and detection of the enemy.

      i.e. you wink
      What rank are you there? - officer naval infantry of Holland laughing
      1. Good me
        Good me 16 November 2015 11: 54 New
        +4
        Quote: atalef
        What rank are you there? - officer naval infantry of Holland

        Would be asked which is easier, for example:

        What tanks are in service with the Dutch MP?

        OR :

        Who is in charge of the Dutch MP, and what is the name of his post?

        In which city did they receive a naval education, what time did they study? In which school, what is it called?
        1. atalef
          atalef 16 November 2015 12: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: Good I
          Who is the leader of the Dutch MP, and what is the name of his post? In what city did they receive a naval education, what time did they study? In which school, what is it called?

          Hi, why? This is how to interrogate a Negro on the issue of belonging to the Rurikovich family.
          And so everything is clear.
          1. Good me
            Good me 16 November 2015 12: 18 New
            0
            Quote: atalef
            Quote: Good I
            Who is the leader of the Dutch MP, and what is the name of his post? In what city did they receive a naval education, what time did they study? In which school, what is it called?

            Hi, why? This is how to interrogate a Negro on the issue of belonging to the Rurikovich family.
            And so everything is clear.

            Hey.
            And I fool..., his cerebellum, already weakened, went crazy trying to understand WHERE THE FOREIGN CITIZEN knows about such a deeply code-conspiratorial strategic product belay lol ?

            Quote: marinier
            P.S. Dase and I won’t think of listening to you, you thwarted the object of recruitment for implementation
            This site. The crisis is not a crisis, fulfill the conditions under which they were recruited.
            No nal4nyh, I can take kind (gaskets, diapers,product number2).
            We are not squeamish !!!
            1. Manul
              Manul 16 November 2015 17: 01 New
              +1
              Quote: Good I
              Hey.
              But I ..., my cerebellum, already weakened, went crazy trying to understand WHERE THE FOREIGN CITIZEN knows about such a deeply code-conspiratorial strategic product?

              And he reminds me of a giant of thought. Almost all comments are generally sneaky - "put a plus sign, please." And after all, it’s not too lazy for a person to put “4” instead of “" ”for so long. I would have not been able to bear it in my place for a long time and would have“ learned ”Russian lol
  9. Kalmar
    Kalmar 16 November 2015 11: 34 New
    +4
    The article is interesting.

    But it’s not clear on the S-300F: who will ultimately provide over-the-horizon target designation for anti-aircraft missiles? As I understand it, the potential of the AGSN anti-aircraft missiles will be fully revealed only in the coastal zone, where the cruiser can be accompanied, say, by coast-based AWACS.

    Quote: article
    At the same time, our KUG SF, led by the advanced Nakhimov, the frigate Admiral Gorshkov, and the modified BOD Project 1155 Udaloy, will be able to defeat any American AUG within a radius of 500 km.

    The thing is small: to be able to fit the KUG to the AUG for the indicated 500 km :)
    1. Manul
      Manul 16 November 2015 20: 22 New
      0
      Quote: Kalmar
      But it’s not clear on the S-300F: who will ultimately provide over-the-horizon target designation for anti-aircraft missiles? As I understand it, the potential of the AGSN anti-aircraft missiles will be fully revealed only in the coastal zone, where the cruiser can be accompanied, say, by coast-based AWACS.
      Here I understand the general problem and the snag. Whoever learns first from space to track enemy ships and direct missiles of his Navy on him will conquer the world.
      1. Kalmar
        Kalmar 16 November 2015 22: 26 New
        0
        Quote: Manul
        Here I understand the general problem and the snag. Whoever learns first from space to track enemy ships and direct missiles of his Navy on him will conquer the world.

        As I understand it, you don’t need to learn anything special, the only question is the price of the issue. Satellites capable of detecting a destroyer or a cruiser with good resolution exist. But if you need to keep an eye on the entire oceans, and even in real time, you need quite a few of these satellites.

        We cannot afford it yet, and the Americans do not really need it: AWACS and electronic warfare aircraft as part of carrier-based aviation can quite successfully solve the tasks of reconnaissance and target designation.
        1. Manul
          Manul 17 November 2015 02: 25 New
          0
          Quote: Kalmar
          As I understand it, you don’t need to learn anything special, the only question is the price of the issue. Satellites capable of detecting a destroyer or a cruiser with good resolution exist. But if you need to keep an eye on the entire oceans, and even in real time, you need quite a few of these satellites.

          We cannot afford it yet, and the Americans do not really need it: AWACS and electronic warfare aircraft as part of carrier-based aviation can quite successfully solve the tasks of reconnaissance and target designation.

          Yes, it’s very expensive and cool. We had a “Legend”. And the satellite navigation system for marine missiles is sure to appear. I think of several countries at once (the Chinese will be the penultimate). This is too strategic a concept. Nobody will know about it until it takes off.
  10. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 16 November 2015 12: 02 New
    0
    Quote: Stirbjorn
    it is only necessary to accelerate the production of new destroyers of the Flurry project, which in the foreseeable future will completely replace our honorable "veterans" - the Orlanes and Atlantes.
    What are the Flurry destroyers ?! There is no destroyer "Flurry", except for the layout - this is known to everyone who is at least a bit in the subject. Developments are only for the destroyer "Leader" and it is not known when the project will be ready.


    This is especially so, given the fact that the Leader now has great layout difficulties. So he is still very far from metal. First you need to establish the constructive appearance of all products, and there is almost no one to do this.
  11. yumis1
    yumis1 16 November 2015 12: 03 New
    -1
    Quote: atalef

    What rank are you there? - officer naval infantry of Holland laughing

    And what to eat? The teachers just did not tell them about the titles so far.
    1. Good me
      Good me 16 November 2015 12: 27 New
      0
      Quote: yumis1
      And what to eat? The teachers just did not tell them about the titles so far.


      Have you learned to make a pot, though?
    2. atalef
      atalef 16 November 2015 15: 50 New
      +1
      Quote: yumis1
      Quote: atalef

      What rank are you there? - officer naval infantry of Holland laughing

      And what to eat? The teachers just did not tell them about the titles so far.

      did you mean orderlies?
      1. andj61
        andj61 16 November 2015 16: 59 New
        +6
        Quote: atalef
        Quote: yumis1
        Quote: atalef

        What rank are you there? - officer naval infantry of Holland laughing

        And what to eat? The teachers just did not tell them about the titles so far.

        did you mean orderlies?

        hi Today, something has begun to actively minus those who express caution, negatively, or even indifferent to the “Dutch” “mariner” Anthony, who writes his posts like Ostap bBnder, but only with a typewriter with a Turkish accent and with a Chinese accent! wassat
        Dissuade me - I began to suspect that this Anthony is an ordinary psychological warfare in the electronic segment; new "daughter of the Crimean officer" ... bully drinks
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 16 November 2015 19: 43 New
          +1
          Quote: andj61
          Today, something has begun to actively minus those who express caution, negatively, or even indifferent to the “Dutch” “mariner” Anthony

          Do not kick the pianist - he plays as he can
        2. Manul
          Manul 16 November 2015 20: 25 New
          +2
          Quote: andj61
          Today, something began to actively minus those

          I beg you - this gang has grazed here for a long time and their name is not a legion, but ...
  12. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 16 November 2015 13: 30 New
    +5
    I remember when the first time I came to Frunze (Admiral Lazarev), it was most struck by the presence of sparkling water in the aisle). And yes ... they inspired respect ... the animal grinned at socialism ... sorry for the ship.
  13. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 16 November 2015 14: 52 New
    12
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    The author is inaccurate
    it was believed that the updated system ... would be a marine version of the S-400

    instead of modernization - they put rusty junk Nakhimov Daring is not a competitor


    I agree. The article has a number of dubious facts and often not relevant issues. The author apparently did not set the task to understand the air defense system of the ship as a whole. The task was to create a digest (set) of facts for those interested.
    It’s bad that “the author didn’t even notice the elephant” ... It is impossible to parse every inaccuracy. I’ll pay attention only to some “elephants”. What is the statement that "there was an opinion that the air defense system would be a naval version of the S-400." Where is it interestingly "existed"? People have at least a drop immersed in the topic, it did not "exist". This is not real.
    And is the C-300F / FM not the "marine version" of the S-300? They have little in common (TPK and rocket). And the air defense system is mainly made by the locator and control system. And they are developed by different offices (Diamond and Altair). And Fort M is the same Fort only in profile. You won’t help missiles. They are not the weakest points.
    To give Fort S-400 features, you need to demolish add-ons and build others, which is impossible. With existing antenna posts instead of an integrated system with 360-degree continuous view. sectors of 45-60 gr are obtained.
    And the C-300F is not an independent system; it receives target designation from a ship target detection system. By the way, its modernization is the most important.
    SAM output ... by rotating the drum

    The revolving system is a drawback. They didn’t do it because it was better. It reduces the rate of fire, it is harder, harder, reloading it is difficult to say the least. She has one major advantage; she compiles better on deck, increasing her strength. The reason for its use is the limited capabilities of shipbuilding. By the way, a classic scheme is laid in our new projects. With a revolver already ate ...

    In general, how many do not upgrade the ships of these projects, they will not come close in combat capabilities to the modern ships of potential opponents. A black male is not home to white. The solutions applied in the ships of these projects were not the best even in the 80s. From a coordinated and competent attack by "air" means of destruction, even then they were not sufficiently protected, and even more so now.
    In contrast to the decent ground-based S-300 / C-400 systems (approximately equal to the American ones), the S-300F (Fort, Fort-M) air defense systems are inferior to the potential enemy’s air defense systems.
    The modification of the ship is not intended to create a ship to confront the NATO fleet in a large-scale conflict in the vast oceans. On the one hand, it is compelled - to maintain the combat readiness of the ship in its current form has become difficult (something is no longer being produced, something requires dismantling for repair, etc.). On the other hand, modernization will pull the ship to a level at which it will be quite adequate in local conflicts with non-leading sea powers or in local water areas, provided that ground forces support it or to protect against accidental, not massive attacks from any air attack means.

    It will turn out to be a quite adequate ship, which can serve for many more years.

    Everything that I wrote relates only to the air defense system. I already told all this.
    Leavened patriots can begin to minus.

    Although I do not agree with the conclusions and logic of the article, despite the “elephants” and inaccuracies, the article will probably be interesting and useful for many readers.

    PS I don’t want to speak on other ship systems. I do not have sufficient qualifications and knowledge.
    1. Antokha
      Antokha 24 September 2017 22: 44 New
      0
      But do not tell me how to minus? I’m probably a fervent patriot. Or a cheer patriot, or a padded jacket, or something else there. In general, this one who is offended by the state. And I don’t know how to minus (stupid). )))
  14. mvg
    mvg 16 November 2015 15: 52 New
    -2
    Good day to all. Most importantly forgot to say. And the Anglican pr 26, pr 45, and the Japanese Akizuki, and the State Berks with tikanderogs, and the frogman's LaFayet, as well as Korean, German, Spanish boats are already sailing (go to sea and can shoot), while in an amount of indescribable, and Nakhimova when they let them go, Vanga "said in two". And he will be the only one so “beautiful”, since Petya will go into the dock right after him. So what we will "brush off" from the adversary will be incomprehensible.
    PS: Well, if only to the Great and Mighty CALIBER, which flies, it really is GLORY TO IDIOTS (urapatriots), not as much as 1500, but 4000, and even better (well, if you get lost) then 5000 km. Or ZIRCON, which still does not fly ..
    And, urapatriotam, do not care that the RCC family Caliber declared 300 km. And it cannot be otherwise. It is made on the basis of Onyx (Yakhont), which has a maximum speed of 260 km.
    Still it is necessary to see the target at this distance, then lure it (AUG) into the affected area (I don’t know what, probably Coca-Cola and chips), and then then brazenly and cynically shoot nafig to hell .. and to the base, for the next an asterisk.

    Sincerely. The article is a plus, but Fort's capabilities are greatly exaggerated .. Both by the number of targets fired and by the shortcomings of the location of the radars.
    1. Falcon
      Falcon 16 November 2015 16: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: mvg
      Made on the basis of Onyx (Yakhont), which has a maximum speed of 260 km.


      This is an export version. On a high-altitude trajectory under 500 km.

      Otherwise, I completely agree hi
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 16 November 2015 21: 57 New
      -1
      Quote: mvg
      And, urapatriotam, do not care that the RCC family Caliber declared 300 km

      Calculate how much from the Caspian to Iraq
      1. Falcon
        Falcon 16 November 2015 22: 09 New
        0
        Quote: Pilat2009
        Calculate how much from the Caspian to Iraq


        And why are you sorry?

        What does 3M-14 have to do with which they shot from the Caspian Sea to RCC 3M-54?

        Or maybe you know the TsU method for RCC at large distances with a moving target?

        Or can you create a shipborne radar with diffractive surface propagation to realize a range comparable to the ZM-14?

      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 16 November 2015 22: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: Pilat2009
        Calculate how much from the Caspian to Iraq

        Comrade mvg, in his paranoid desire to denounce all the patriots, he only hears himself and he doesn’t give a damn about his interlocutor (by and large) ... I talked about the Caliber of the Kyrgyz Republic, and my friend said something about the Caliber of the RCC , with a range of 300 km on surface targets ... KR Caliber flew 1500 km and it is a fact, but not the fact that these missiles do not fly beyond this distance ... so the numbers flickered and 2600, and 4000 and even 5000 km. I can’t believe it, because the real TTX of the Kyrgyz Republic Caliber so far, as far as I know, has not been voiced anywhere.
        And about the fact that by the engine and dimensions of the rocket you can easily determine its range ... then really, why impose vultures "secretly", state secrets, if visually everything is so easy and simple.
        Sincerely. hi
    3. Dart2027
      Dart2027 17 November 2015 19: 23 New
      0
      Quote: mvg
      And, urapatriotam, do not care that the RCC family Caliber declared 300 km

      They just know that this is the range declared, but the truth from lies is like eyes from ears.
  15. Old26
    Old26 16 November 2015 19: 52 New
    +1
    Quote: NEXUS
    The article is interesting. Especially in the installation section of Zircon project rockets on Nakhimych. There is one inaccuracy regarding the long-range Caliber-NK, where the author writes about a range of up to 1500 km. Let's just say this is the demonstrated range of Caliber, but the numbers were called up to 4000 km and even up to 5000 km.

    I thought you were hesitant about installing Zircon. for no one at all knows what it is. Hyper or supersonic rocket, what are its mass-dimensional characteristics. And you were struck by the mention of 1500 km at Caliber. Believe me, the fake is the mention of its range of 4000 or 5000 km. Jade with respect to the X-101/102 there is no guarantee that they have such a range, and they are superior in mass and size not only to the "Caliber", but also to the X-55 SM with a range of 3000 km. No need to be seven spans in the forehead, so that knowing the parameters of the engine and the weight (at least approximate) of the rocket, calculate its maximum range ....
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 16 November 2015 21: 55 New
      +2
      Quote: Old26
      I thought you were hesitant about installing Zircon. for no one at all knows what it is. Hyper or supersonic rocket, what are its mass-dimensional characteristics.

      I think it’s rather hyper-sound ... but we won’t find out about TTX of it, even if it’s approximate, if they bring it to mind.
      Quote: Old26
      Believe me, the fake is the mention of its range of 4000 or 5000 km.

      Comrade mvg, and as I understand it, you also know the real TTX of Kalibrov-NK, and I hope not from the wiki or what they write in the media ... Then sound them. Talk about what range these missiles can have for a long time, and call and 1500km, 2000km and 4000km (speech, dear Vladimir is not about you, but for those who have not learned to hear the interlocutor, I’m talking about respected mvg, I say the syllables-ON-THE-ZE-MANY TSE-YAM!).
      Quote: Old26
      Jade with respect to the X-101/102 there is no guarantee that they have such a range, and they are superior in mass and size not only to the "Caliber", but also to the X-55 SM with a range of 3000 km.

      X-101/102 is only being tested, and you pass off your assumptions almost as a fait accompli.
      Then why the hell do you need state secrets, special services, etc., if everything is so easy to figure it out sitting on the couch with beer then?
      Sorry if I answered too harshly ... sincerely not from evil ... with respect, Vladimir hi
  16. 31rus
    31rus 16 November 2015 20: 16 New
    0
    Dear ones, I read with interest both the article and the comments, thank you, it’s very interesting, the question is, is this a “cut of money” or for not having better opportunities?
  17. mvg
    mvg 16 November 2015 21: 06 New
    0
    Quote: Old26
    Quote: NEXUS
    The article is interesting. Especially in the installation section of Zircon project rockets on Nakhimych. There is one inaccuracy regarding the long-range Caliber-NK, where the author writes about a range of up to 1500 km. Let's just say this is the demonstrated range of Caliber, but the numbers were called up to 4000 km and even up to 5000 km.

    I thought you were hesitant about installing Zircon. for no one at all knows what it is. Hyper or supersonic rocket, what are its mass-dimensional characteristics. And you were struck by the mention of 1500 km at Caliber. Believe me, the fake is the mention of its range of 4000 or 5000 km. Jade with respect to the X-101/102 there is no guarantee that they have such a range, and they are superior in mass and size not only to the "Caliber", but also to the X-55 SM with a range of 3000 km. No need to be seven spans in the forehead, so that knowing the parameters of the engine and the weight (at least approximate) of the rocket, calculate its maximum range ....

    There, on the other end of the phone, there’s a big Caliber fan who sincerely believes that with the appearance of 3M14 Hitler’s Kaput appears to everyone, and you tell him about some kind of mass dimensions .. and some Xs. 102/102/55/555 - air, they still have a margin in height and launch speed, minus the mass of the accelerator. And at supersonic (hypersound) kerosene is consumed less than at M = 0.7 - 0.9. In general, tremble the "adversaries", we have the channel "Star" (almost Discovery ") and Caliber .. and the harsh reality - not for the" real "guys. And the Cyclones, Cyclops and the like" real "missiles will find and destroy , at least on that end of the Earth.
    PS: How evil happened, I didn’t want ... I just got Caliber, Granite, and Grenade already. Some of them didn’t figure it out in a month, what is the difference between ground-based missiles (BGM) and anti-ship missiles and air (AGM).
    If only out of the corner of my eye, at least with one peek to see how it took off, it flew 1500 (even 1000) km and where the thread hit. Well, if not to the bearded’s head, then close ..
  18. Old26
    Old26 16 November 2015 21: 32 New
    +2
    Quote: mvg
    and harsh reality - not for "real" boys

    You know, to defuse the situation. I read about the "real" boys and remembered a joke

    Evening. To one steep bro come two of the same. He leads them around his house, go into a small room where there is a drum kit.

    One of those who came:
    - Bro, what is this?
    Master:
    - Yes, I got it
    The guest:
    - and cho, firms?
    Master:
    - And then !!! This is the real Stradivarius ...

    The Moscow Art Theater pause, then the second came:
    - Listen, bro, but I heard that Stradivarius did violins ...
    Master:
    - He did this for suckers of a violin, and for REAL BOYS - drums
  19. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 16 November 2015 21: 51 New
    +2
    Quote: Falcon
    Quote: mvg
    Made on the basis of Onyx (Yakhont), which has a maximum speed of 260 km.


    This is an export version. On a high-altitude trajectory under 500 km.

    Otherwise, I completely agree hi


    What a mess with these Caliber! Here 260 and 500 and 1500 and 4000 and 5000. This naturally does not happen.

    In fact, there are different and completely different calibers.
    There are those that are designed for use on ground objects so they have a range if you do not need to overcome air defense of about 1600 km.

    And there are completely different anti-ship calibers of their range of 300-450 km. depending on the application scheme. There is practically nothing in common between these calibers and different people did them.
    There are also slightly truncated export versions of anti-ship missiles.

    As regards the range "along a high-altitude trajectory", except for barges now work according to the high-high-high scheme. So this range is purely theoretical.
  20. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 16 November 2015 22: 24 New
    +1
    [quote = Falcon] [quote = mvg] Made on the basis of Onyx (Yakhont), which has a maximum speed of 260 km. [/ quote]
    This is an export version. On a high-altitude trajectory under 500 km.
    [/ Quote]

    What a mess with these Caliber! Here 260 and 500 and 1500 and 4000 and 5000. This naturally does not happen.

    In fact, there are different and completely different calibers.
    There are those that are designed for use on ground objects so they have a range if you do not need to overcome air defense of about 1600 km.

    And there are completely different anti-ship calibers of their range of 300-450 km. depending on the application scheme. There is practically nothing in common between these calibers and different people did them.
    There are also slightly truncated export versions of anti-ship missiles.

    Each rocket for its own and they can not replace each other. Just do not reach the goal

    As regards the range "along a high-altitude trajectory", except for barges now work according to the high-high-high scheme. So this range is purely theoretical. [/ Quote]
    1. mvg
      mvg 17 November 2015 00: 28 New
      0
      I read about all 4 versions of Caliber .. I can imagine how rockets and design bureaus differ, what they were made of. And on the basis of what missiles they were made (new - this is very rare, and not for a country that has vegetated for 15 years).
      About Onyx - 260 km is a high-altitude trajectory, and not an export version. On a low trajectory - about 120 km. Give links?
      About RCC and "ground" Gauges, I also roughly imagine what mapping of the area is and what to map to the sea there is nothing.
      I also studied in detail, did not teach, but studied Termite, Mosquito, and Basalt. Here is the 3M10 Garnet only superficially. True, it was a long time ago and not true.

      What I wrote is for uriapatriots who were just too lazy to get on the Internet and use the media. And they write that the Caliber, and even anti-ship bullets as much as 4000 and 5000 ... in general they fly until they get tired of flapping their wings.
      1. opus
        opus 17 November 2015 02: 43 New
        +3
        Quote: mvg
        Here is the 3M10 Garnet only superficially. True, it was a long time ago and not true.

        ZM-14 is a modern clone 3K10 / S-10 Pomegranate (or ground version of RK-55 / 3K12 Relief)
        And ZK10 and RK-55, kk, according to unconfirmed data, but according to the INF
        2900-3000km (true inclined start -50g).




        Or maybe it’s all 5500 km (it appears in the contract, then 5000 km, then 5500 km)
        In this case, the specific fuel consumption at the maximum mode is 0,71 kg / kgf per hour.
        In those distant eighties.
        1) It is enough to reduce the specific fuel consumption, we get the range (product 36-01 differs from product 37-01).
        2) Element base: nevertheless, one cannot be compared with the current one (the same iPhone and PC "Pravets, I didn’t stand nearby)
        3) Tare (empty CD) -this is another option for increasing range.
        4) BIP, I will not even give an example of how much easier they are now
        5) those gyroscopes and CLG VOG should not even be compared
        6) fuel: it is not necessary to use 80x fuel (T-1 (aviation kerosene), TS-1, T-10 (decylin))
        7) pencil case capsule, only for submarines. Its no-weight (mass) is less, and this is the range
        8) the starting solid propellant solid propellant rocket engine (382 kg) is no longer used, lighter and the thrust is greater
        9) The control and guidance system RK-55 is an autonomous inertial with correction from a relief-correlation-extreme correction system. The correction system includes a digital computer, a radio altimeter, a storage system for digital matrix maps of correction areas and a flight task.
        and the ZM-14, as it were, has an ARGS-14 (E) (weighing no more than 40 kg;) - and what missing?
        10) and so on.
        What can these “little things” together give?
  21. Anisim1977
    Anisim1977 16 November 2015 22: 26 New
    0
    You just need more new ships, and already yesterday and the coast you close the Bastions tightly. And when there is more or less real quantity, then the wunderfaff can be designed.
  22. Radikal
    Radikal 16 November 2015 23: 23 New
    0
    In other words, targeting a missile at a target can be performed by any multi-role fighter or flying radar, in the area and radius of view of which there is an air target unattainable for naval radar air defense systems due to the small radio horizon.
    And where will they come from (multi-role fighter or flying radar) if the ship is acceptable at a distance of 1000 miles from the base?
  23. Old26
    Old26 17 November 2015 00: 43 New
    0
    Quote: NEXUS
    I think it’s rather hyper-sound ... but we won’t find out about TTX of it, even if it’s approximate, if they bring it to mind.

    Here I agree. Although some doubts that it is hypersonic still remains. Its dimensions are so insignificant that the range should also be small ...

    Quote: NEXUS
    Comrade mvg, and as I understand it, you also know the real TTX of Kalibrov-NK, and I hope not from the wiki or what they write in the media ... Then voice them

    You understand very well that even if I know the TTX “Caliber” I can’t voice them, because they are covered by the bar.
    But real performance characteristics can really be calculated if you know some basic principles of collecting and processing information.
    I usually quote Mayakovsky in such cases. He has these lines:
    Poetry is the same production of radium
    In grams of production - in years of labor
    You harass a single word for
    Thousands of tons of verbal ore

    Only instead of poetry can one mean the search for information, instead of radium - information. And thousands of tons of verbal ore is the whole array of information that needs to be processed.
    And then - everything is quite simple. the engine is known, its weight and traction - too, second fuel consumption - too. Warhead weight, cruising speed about the same. as well as the starting weight (again, it may not be exactly accurate, but it is known.
    And then just compare several sources (the more the better) and find the remaining missing data.
    By the way, Wiki would not talk about her quite a good resource. especially if you read not only the Russian version. In every article, “by the grain” - that's it.
    So, on the basis of approximately such reasoning, we can conclude that the range of the "Caliber" 3M14 in no way can be 4 or 5 thousand kilometers

    Quote: NEXUS
    X-101/102 is only being tested, and you pass off your assumptions almost as a fait accompli.

    In exactly the same way as I wrote above. The starting weight of the X-101 is about 1 ton more than that of the X-55CM. Fuel about 800 kg more. More powerful engine, more fuel. Therefore, I do not think that the figure of 5500 km, and even more so as some write 10000 km, does not correspond to reality

    Quote: NEXUS
    Then why the hell do you need state secrets, special services, etc., if everything is so easy to figure it out sitting on the couch with beer then?

    But do you think that the work of the special services is much different from the process I described above? Not at all. At one time, Rudolph Abel said something like this:
    A scout ends when he starts firing a pistol and scooting the rooftops from the police after breaking the safes.
    Just the work of intelligence mainly comes down to the routine processing of a huge amount of materials, from rumors to printed materials and their electronic versions. The difference is that they have a huge array of background information, unlike most of us.
    Well, vultures really have certain characteristics, although IMHO it is not always justified
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 17 November 2015 01: 00 New
      +2
      Quote: Old26
      So, on the basis of approximately such reasoning, we can conclude that the range of the "Caliber" 3M14 in no way can be 4 or 5 thousand kilometers

      Vladimir, if you carefully read my posts, you should have seen that there was no statement about the range of the Caliber, but there was only a remark that after the "Caspian salute" the numbers were different, including such as 4000 and 5000 km, but that’s not it means that I claim that they really are. I just think that all the same about 2000 km (maybe a little more). I'm talking about the Kyrgyz Republic on ground targets.
      I repeat, this is my opinion. Although the Caliber and the missile are similar to an ax, then the TTX should be approximately the same plus or minus ...
      Best regards hi
  24. mvg
    mvg 17 November 2015 01: 14 New
    0
    wink I missed a couple of comments. About 3M-14, I will not look for a link and reliability, for memory, but with the numbers I usually make friends .. The maximum range is declared 2100 km. The 3M-54 has 480 km, however, as I understand it, you need either a carrier-based AWACS helicopter, or something else to put it at least .. Put a black man on top with a compass .. request
    And here also confuses me. About RCC, because there are countries that are not inferior (minimum) to us in the development of rocket science and guidance methods, but neither Sweden, nor Japan, nor Germany, France, nor Korea, nor Israel did, and, in the future, will not do RCC further 200-250 km .. Well, not all the same fools ..
    At the same time, in each of these countries there are AWACS, and satellites, (and a Negro can buy). It is evident that the problem of aiming at the target at such a distance (500 km) has not been resolved. True, there is a second option: They are not considering the possibility of an AUG attack, but closer, AUG will not let it go. Although AUG will soon be in China, India, and Japan ...
    In general, it is strange. Thinking out loud.
    PS: It remains to remember about Pershing (Pioneers) and DF-21 .. Suddenly, that the Chinese will succeed ..
    1. opus
      opus 17 November 2015 02: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: mvg
      not inferior (at least) to us in the development of rocket science and guidance methods, but neither Sweden, nor Japan, nor Germany, nor France, nor Korea, nor Israel did, and, in the future, will not make anti-ship missiles further than 200-250 km .. Well, not all the same fools ..

      1. All listed are inferior
      2. All of the above fall under the MTCR
      South Korea truth develops Hyunmu-3C (500-600 miles)


      To the question of "fools"
      3. There are "fools"
      LRASM (Long Range Anti-Ship Missile - “Anti-ship long-range missile”) A and B
      RATTLRS (Revolutionary Approach To Time Critical Long Range Strike - "The revolutionary principle of reducing flight time").
      ArcLight must hit targets at a distance of up to 2300 miles (about 3700 km) from the launch site.
      The French are wise with GZA LEA



      MBDA UK tormented with CVS401 PERSEUS