Military Review

What we lost with Mistral

195



It is quite clear that this topic is already the button accordion and even the standard button accordion, however, I would like to discuss it. As if from the outside and as a whole. Canvas this stories they know everyone who has access to the Internet, which certainly saves a lot of time. Discussions on the Internet have been going on for many years - needed or not needed, hi-tech or trough, expensive or cheap, healthy or not healthy.

Any active forumchanin one way or another was involved in such discussions. But for some reason, the majority looks at the situation here and now. Let's try to look at the picture as a whole. So, what we have: 2011 year, 6-day war in Ossetia has already died down long ago. Allegedly, France has taken some position there ... The shipyards in Saint-Nazaire are not loaded, and Mr. Sarkozy allegedly suggests, and Mr. Medvedev agrees to acquire those universal ships.

In this case, the characteristics and the combat value of these Mistrals are not so important, the other is important. It is not even important in itself to transfer technology. The main thing - in the modern world, no nation, with the exception, perhaps, of the Chinese, can produce everything - from binoculars to satellite - it is difficult, expensive and unprofitable.

Yes, the US 50-ies 20-th century did almost everything - from needles to passenger aircraft. Yes, the USSR also suffered something similar, but, alas, those heroic times are long gone. You can, of course, build those shipyards, design a Russian landing ship for our requirements, build it. And when will the result? And how much will this result cost?

All note-taking patriots, as a rule, miss this important point, namely: price and time. Speaking frankly, in the case of creating a Russian analogue, it is impossible to determine in advance the price and terms. Such a large surface ship in Russia for a long time did not build. The French guaranteed absolutely exact cost and terms. The conversation was about cooperation, and not about the fact that advanced French are building a fleet of Russian barbarians. We have at that time - free euros and the need for large ships. The French have “free shipyards” that could potentially burn out. And in the case of a transaction on the basis of all good. Yes, I have the audacity to argue that the Mistral deal was quite reasonable, on both sides, I emphasize, on both sides.



The euro in reserve is the euro in reserve, cut colored paper. A warship afloat is something real. Russian shipyards at that time are overloaded and do not have such a project. Plus, we are friends with beautiful France, and not at our expense. Yes, it would be good to build Russian light aircraft carriers, “sharpened” under our fleet, under our tasks, at our shipyards. It would be nice, but unreal at this stage. In any case, it is not very fast and very expensive.

As everyone remembers - Mistrali planned for the Pacific Ocean, namely for Japan. Based on the political situation, it was not bad to have ships “already tomorrow”, even if they are not the best. This, excuse me, is the very case when, having a small lousy lemon, they make lemonade out of it. And yes, yes, build a carrier fleet with a cruising cover in Vladivostok and send it to Hawaii in the footsteps of Admiral Yamamoto. It would be nice, but, alas.

This is the case when globalization is a blessing. Do you want to agree - do not want. In theory, Russia very quickly receives two large helicopter carriers in the Far East. Tomorrow. And it significantly changes the balance of power, despite the relatively low combat characteristics of these. Plus, having received these same ships, the Pacific Fleet receives the opportunity to "live" run in certain operations. On a computer, this is not modeled, on the staff map, too. Well, yes - plus modern shipbuilding technology.

What we lost with Mistral


We know what happens next - Ukraine goes on. By the way, the link to Ukraine sounds quite funny. Mistral contract is one of the consequences of the 08.08.08 war. This war has shown that Russia will defend its interests in neighboring states. What, forgive, a fundamentally new happened in Ukraine? Everything is somehow harnessing this topic - Ukraine, sanctions. But from the point of view of the French, what has changed in principle? Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova ... It is not clear.

What is the paradox of this situation? Not every, not every country can afford to order two Mistral. Not everyone needs it, not everyone has money, not everyone will sell it. Russia in this case is a unique client. The client to cling to. Indeed, in the long run in the Russian market, the French could push the Anglo-Saxons, due to "special relations". Further, Russia is not Libya for you, it will not work “to throw” it, under any circumstances.

By the way, in general, such a pause with the adoption of a decision on the “shipment” from November to April leads to bad thoughts, very bad ones. If a school burned down at night, tomorrow you don’t have to write a checklist. If a war has begun with Russia, even if in words, which Mistrals are the enemy? And here is April 2015: both Mistrals are ready, the war has not begun and we need to decide something already.



In fact, President Putin’s phrase - about the decency of the French partners - is a manifestation of the extreme degree of irritation. Those. in the Kremlin, they waited, they waited, and finally patience was exhausted. Thus, the pause was by no means agreed, and no negotiations at that time were underway. Just the French "pulled the rubber."

Hollande had two good solutions:
1. In spite of everything, to supply Mistrali - this sharply raised the prestige of France as an independent state and solved all the problems under the contract.
2. Demonstratively refuse to supply Mistrali and start negotiations about breaking the contract. What would not be so good for France, but clearly, clearly and clearly for everyone. The policy of a serious world power.

The French president chose the third line - "neither peace nor war." That is, the contract does not vomit, and until we deliver the Mistral to Russia. Only a very naive child can believe that this is a wise compromise solution. In fact, that was the place to be - France comes under fire from two sides. "Allies" curse her for softness and self-interest.



Russians are kicking off a contract. By the way, a typical example of how not to act commander in a crisis situation. Any solution is better than uncertainty. But I still not about that. The question is much more serious: how, in principle, to build relations between the EU and the Russian Federation? On what basis, sorry? What was interesting about commerce with Europe for the USSR, except for the main - economic incarnation?

We signed contracts with the “bourgeois”, and these contracts were strictly enforced. Confidence and certainty arose in relations, if not on the basis of the ideals of socialism, but nonetheless. The “Mistral” situation — it can also be called the “South Stream” or “Mulin” (a training center not completed by the Germans) - creates fundamentally new realities in which any contract can be broken for political reasons.

Do not underestimate this aspect of the problem: we will deal with Mistrals, Mulino and even South Stream. The problem is deeper - Europe fundamentally poses the question in such a way that ideology (naturally, their ideology) goes ahead of the economy. And this is much more serious. At one time, the mega-ideologized USSR was able to gently push Lenin aside and calmly build relations with the EU in the 70s. Actually, the USSR sought to do this: no matter what anyone said about Brezhnev and the company, they preferred to trade rather than fight with the West.



Now we have the opposite picture: the EU deliberately limits or breaks economic ties with Russia: “because we don’t like your position in Ukraine”. A clear “democratic” ideology has been formed, where Europe is always right - because it is Europe, and Russia is always to blame - because it is Russia. And under this sauce, relations with Russia begin to “line up” anew. No illusions - it's not in the Crimea and not in Ukraine. The point is the status of relations in the EU-RF bond. The position of Europeans is simple - we are right, but you are not, and we will reprimand you, and you will make excuses. Refusal of this kind of relationship is considered as Russian nationalism and aggression.

You see, it is very important to realize that a certain “window of opportunity” that some “democrats” like to talk about so much for us is closed tightly. In the sense of - participation in the "certain elite club of powers." And even the assignment of the Crimea and the Donbass does not solve anything here, we lost to Eastern Europe without a single shot, but this did not bring us peace or respect, just the opposite.

I will cite the idea encountered on the Internet: The West proceeds from the fact that Russia has lost the cold war and this is what determines its attitude to us. Who was interested in the opinion of Germany in 1919? Or the opinion of France in 1815? We proceed from the fact that it was we who stopped the cold war and abandoned socialism as an alternative social system. According to their version, we are crushed and have no political rights. This explains their extremely tough attitude to the Donbass and Crimea. It does not matter who is right and who is to blame - Russia has no right to actively intervene in politics in Ukraine. The United States has, the EU has, and Russia does not - the status is not the same.

It’s not politically correct today to openly voice ideas about losing Russia, so there is a serious misunderstanding - and you invaded Yugoslavia, Libya ... And from their point of view, everything is fine - their status allows them to bomb Belgrade. Our problem: we assume that equal relations with Germany or France are a matter of course. And sincerely wondering what is wrong? The problem lies precisely in this - in our low status, from the point of view of European elites.

So, once again returning to the ill-fated French troughs, they, like a drop of water, reflected all the “features” of Russia-EU relations. If Russia-France relations are built on the principle of full equality (in fact, Russia will be more significant), then the position of Monsieur Hollande is incomprehensible a little less than completely. Just categorically. This is what most commentators pay attention to: “How are the French ?!” But if you leave the principle of equality, then yes - “good” France has the right to punish “bad” Russia. Everything is great, simple and logical. In reality, unfortunately, for Hollande this did not quite work: there is a contract with Russia and there is a bad Putin who insistently demands his execution.



By the way, this reality is not too pleasant for us either - the French didn’t deliver Mistral and didn’t comment on this topic seriously. Agree, from a business point of view, the situation is paradoxical - the contract is not executed and the money is not returned. And no one is in a hurry to apologize either. On the contrary, there are "smart" conversations about the correctness of such a decision. Doesn't this remind you of a madhouse? Any way out to a new reality?



That is, once again returning to the beginning of the reasoning, I propose to break away from the specifics of Mistral and look at the picture as a whole: there is Russia with its resources and there is an overpopulated Europe with its excess industrial capacity and excess population. And it seems that, at first glance, we need each other ... And still, olives are better grown in Europe, and oranges, and grapes. However, it is worth remembering about the struggle for "energy independence" from Russia, the execution of the contract for Opel and the French steel company, which the guys from Russia also wanted to buy, as there will be no end to the surprise.

Commercial contracts just don't work. As it turns out, the main thing is politics, ideology, but not commerce. A feature of Mistral is only the high level of signing the contract and the fact that it was, in fact, executed at 99 percent. That is, the money is paid, and the ships are built, but they do not transfer it to us. Who will now believe in an ordinary commercial contract with the French? Are they fly away into space? Talking about politics there, Ukraine and the Americans with Mistrals, and we will always put our goods in the best possible way, this is agitation in favor of very poor classes. Who will actually guarantee that Ukraine and the Americans will not enter into your case either?




Any serious contract in the energy, transport, aerospace, shipbuilding industry implies confidence in a partner for many years to come. Payments and delivery of goods divorced in time is very significant. What should cooperation look like? Payment after the fact? That's just how they in Europe are very fond of one hundred percent prepayment when working with Russia. But the supplies themselves do not guarantee, making them dependent on political decisions. There is such an interesting concept - transaction costs, and so they in this case soar to the skies.

Call me an alarmist, but it seems to me that Russian-European business has been dealt a very heavy blow, not fatal, but nonetheless. To make the situation more transparent - you did not try to trade with Ukraine? Here is the same thing. The same infection is total uncertainty. No, you can, of course, sign a contract, but in fact - this is a paper certificate. For example, our beloved Germans proceed from the fact that the Russian-German contract and its execution must be governed by German laws and German politicians. This is the "zrada of all zrad".

While the EU-Russia relations were relatively cloudless, it was all not so important, but now, if someone does not understand, the Europeans have openly declared their goal to destroy the Russian economy - by launching sanctions. Excuse me, how serious business can be developed in such conditions? With a sharp increase in political risks, the business itself becomes less profitable. When the German battleship Bismarck, breaking through the blockade, entered the expanses of the Atlantic, insurance rates in London soared, which made shipping unprofitable.

It’s hard to believe, but Bismarck itself, in the Atlantic, killed British trade without even firing on specific ships. Here we have something similar: the demonstrative position of Brussels, Paris, Berlin and others on the execution of large contracts with Russia and on the safety of bank deposits makes big business Russia-EU meaningless (in the long run, of course). As an example: you made 10 profitable deals, with a reasonable margin, and on 11, the counterparty refuses to execute, and the money is frozen in an account in a European bank. And they pretend to be "friends of Ukrainian democracy" or "friends of the Syrian democracy." And the press, which is typical, on their side.

Further, there was information that Russian customers were politely asked to leave the Swiss banks. Cause? They are Russians. Doesn't this remind you of anything? No, of course, you can ask: "And what do we care about some fat-souls?" The answer is simple: "Yesterday they came for Abramovich, but I was silent because I was Abramovichus." Once again, it’s not so immediately a mass, like the Jews in Auschwitz, however, the Holocaust also began with a small one. Here you can just remember Cyprus and the “Russian criminal money” confiscated by “honest Germans”. Which simply seized - without trial and without investigation. Or where do you think the endless problems of Gazprom in Europe come from? We seem to be accustomed to this standard - "civilized relations of civilized countries." And it seems that, according to this standard, there should be no fundamental problems for white firms - there are laws, business principles, intergovernmental agreements, etc. The same Gazprom in the EU only under a magnifying glass is not examined. No crime in such conditions is impossible in principle, from the word at all.

The only reasonable strategy in such conditions is “to be white and fluffy” for one hundred percent, unless, of course, the company's management consists of clinical idiots. Rem Vyakhirev is not a cretin like, and, nevertheless, claims against Gazprom are pouring in buckets. Once again I make this very (extremely unpleasant) conclusion - we have no one to build “civilized relations” in Europe. Roughly speaking, this very propaganda picture of cultural Europe does not correspond to the truth.



It is unpleasant to talk about it, but all these problems will not go anywhere and will not “resolve”, as many people dream of. And the “turn to the East” or to other parts of the world is perhaps the most reasonable solution in this situation. You just have to abstract away from the specific problems of the specific “third energy package”, “the acquisition of the Opel plant” and look at the situation in an abstract, schematic way. Russia is trying to play by the very “civilized rules” and within their framework take certain actions in the financial and economic sphere. In response, an extremely tough administrative "bluff" follows. It is just a series of administrative decisions / prohibitions that make those very actions meaningless or impossible.

In the case of Mistrals, we simply reached the apotheosis of absurdity, but the situation with the revision of already concluded contracts — after the adoption of the third energy package — is no less absurd. If you want to fight Gazprom’s monopoly, invite alternative gas suppliers, let them come and compete. But instead, we have, in fact, the direct administration of international trade. The EU, for example, will not build gas pipelines for Russian gas itself, but it doesn’t allow Gazprom either, after which you can talk a lot about the “unreliability of gas supplies from Russia”. No one will build a gas pipeline from which you can use only 50%. This is absurd. In fact, it is an indirect administrative ban on economic activity. And then we are long and popularly told about the need for economic freedom and reform in Russia. But these people themselves live on completely different principles.

The reasons for such a policy are even more interesting. Over the last 22 of the year, Russia has changed a lot - this is a fact. Although this somehow escapes the attention of foreign observers. Those reforms, the need for which they taldychat us, have already passed, as it were, not always and not very successfully, but passed. But the EU has changed a lot over the last 22 of the year. There is less economy and more, much more politics. Once upon a time (very long ago!), The EU was a club of rich European nations, and especially in big politics did not climb, amid the confrontation between the USSR and the USA. This one - a quiet, peaceful, thriving European Union - was remembered by many. And when this abbreviation sounds in a stream of speech, it is the picture of Western Europeans rolling like cheese in oil that appears in our mind. Yes, there is still unemployment, but this is more - Soviet propaganda.



With the collapse of the USSR, the European Union came firmly into politics and left the economy. The situation, as it were, has changed. Past well-being has become the subject of memories (even in Germany, the standard of living has subsided very much), but the political activity of this entity has sharply increased. From that moment, the European Union began to turn into the “Eurokolkhoz” The EU cannot and does not want to solve the economic problems of its southern and eastern European countries. Imagine that Hungary, Latvia, Bulgaria and Greece really flourish, just imagine. Whatever the blow to the Kremlin’s policy. Indeed, a strong blow. However, these countries are very far from prosperity, both now and in the foreseeable historical perspective.



And their many and acute problems in Brussels are not particularly worrying. But gentlemen from Brussels are actively moving further south and east ... Does this remind you of anything? Why carry out NATO exercises in Latvia and Georgia if it is possible to create a standard of living there, both in Belgium and freedom, as in Holland? The Russians will see and be shocked to the core. But no, it turns out Tanks instead of oil plus a full boost in ideology. So, all this talk about Mercedes for beginners should be completely forgotten. Europe is seriously spending on expansion, and it cannot offer anything good for millions in the “annexed territories” - expansion is too rapid by historical standards, and the streets in Bucharest and Kiev are definitely not paved with gold.

Yes, in Western Europe there is a certain margin of safety, but it is not limitless and it will definitely not be enough for Ukrainians. As a matter of fact, an internal degeneration of the European Union took place - the tasks of integration and economic development of already prosperous territories were replaced by the tasks of territorial expansion with its rigid ideological justification. By the way, in this phase, the standard of living always “subsides”, any expansion is expensive - that is why. Thus, Eastern Europe can and "megapriz", but not Eldorado. In this case, the "war" can not feed itself. Alas, that's the way - war and expansion. As soon as the process stopped in the Donbas, guns and tanks went into action.

From the above, the following sad conclusions can be drawn. The first is that a rise in the standard of living in the novice countries of the European Union is impossible in principle, which makes these countries even less stable and more aggressive. Secondly, the era of close economic ties between the EU and the Russian Federation is becoming a thing of the past, we are disturbing them. They absolutely do not need an independent decision-making center in Moscow. Third - the military confrontation will increase. And it's not even in the USA. The project of Greater Europe is simply balancing on the verge of failure, while Russia in this case is a serious rival in economics, politics and ideology (traditional values). If they could provide salaries in 3 000 Euros in Latvia and Romania, there would be no problem. But, not being able to provide economic superiority, they are forced to resort to direct force methods, as in Kiev. They did not give Yanukovych money, but they made a notable putsch. Meet - this is a new European Union.

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  1. vorobey
    vorobey 14 November 2015 11: 09 New
    +2
    EU in 70 years ... author two points for homework ... Half of the EU was then part of CMEA

    and in general status, status ... without a quo, this status is nothing ... but we have a quo .. as shown recently .. so Europeans have something to think about ...
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 14 November 2015 11: 15 New
      26
      Over the past 22 years, Russia has changed a lot - this is a fact

      Russia has always been by itself and they are afraid of it! And they’re doing it right, we are not conquerors, in essence .... But we are punishing hard! And you gentlemen understand this very well ....
      1. venaya
        venaya 14 November 2015 11: 20 New
        44
        Quote: MIKHAN
        Russia has always been by itself and they are afraid of it! And they’re doing it right

        Our task, in the end, is to not be afraid but respected. Although, for these Western savages, apparently this is the same thing, but it's a pity.
        1. lelikas
          lelikas 14 November 2015 11: 52 New
          40
          Quote: venaya
          Our task, in the end, is to not be afraid but respected. Although, for these Western savages, apparently this is the same thing, but it's a pity.

          Enough to just be afraid. Why are the Yankees respected in Europe? - Yes, there is nothing to respect them for, but they are boiling over and walking on their hind legs.
          Everyone to whom they did good - just threw us down and everything, because we became not terrible, "entered" into the "civilized" world. And now it's time to restore the "Evil Empire", we know that we are not like that, but the rest of the "partners" do not need to know this.
          1. gispanec
            gispanec 14 November 2015 17: 40 New
            +4
            quote from the article - or “Moninskaya” (a training center not completed by the Germans),.... thought a typo ....but here is the following quote - with Mistral, Monino and even South Stream we will figure it out.This speaks of the qualifications of a journalist .... I did not read further .... an article, more precisely, a fat minus to the author .... before you say - turn on your head .... learn the equipment .....M U L I N O
            1. mad
              mad 14 November 2015 20: 11 New
              19
              Quote: gispanec
              I didn’t read further .... the article, more precisely, the author has a bold minus .... before saying - turn on your head .... learn the materiel .....


              С Mulino Of course, the author was pierced, but the article is very worthy.
              1. Cherdak
                Cherdak 16 November 2015 14: 57 New
                +8
                Quote: mad
                very worthy article

                It is curious that the Europeans themselves find a certain similarity with the "stagnant" USSR
                1. Darkmor
                  Darkmor 17 November 2015 04: 39 New
                  +2
                  The author of the article is not technically savvy in some things, because of what are wrong conclusions.
                  For example, the author thinks that Mistrals are ships, or blueprints for ships.
                  And from this point of view it seems to him that we have not acquired anything - they say, all that we can do is copy the mistral.
                  No. This is the technical documentation for THOUSAND mechanisms, bundles, blocks, connections, etc.
                  As a particular example - lift lifting equipment. It can be used on any ship (if this is, of course, advisable), and not just on a helicopter carrier. It can be applied even on coastal equipment-based structures.
                  Mistral itself, like a ship, is useless to us. I can not think of a tactical application for him in any current theater.
                  This is an attacking or expeditionary weapon, in its meaning.
                  He is not even needed in Syria for nothing - we only bothered to get into conflict when we were fully prepared.
                  I am not saying that Mistral is completely useless - but you can do without it.
                  Therefore, we received the necessary technology, and did not receive the unnecessary ships, for which they returned the money to us. In my opinion, this is a winning situation.
                  In addition - as a result, we also resell the Ka-52m helicopter fleet. Those. The Mistrals also sent us an export order for the same amount as the price of the Mistrals. What could be better? So that they would send French whores tied with bows to us with forfeit for the Mistrals?

                  And about the political aspect, "window of opportunity" and other things.
                  Maybe this will sound rude - but there is NO reason for us to strengthen friendship with a limp slave. Better make friends with his master.
                  1. derik1970
                    derik1970 17 November 2015 08: 30 New
                    +1
                    Well, my friend you are 100% savvy. You need to develop your technology, and not buy a mechanism for an elevator at the price of a mistral !!! Rossi wiped his nose with the Mistrals. And nobody will play honestly with us in Europe in business! Thanks for everything to whom? Of course, liberals and those citizens who ride around Europe and admire her, these are all liberal accomplices, no patriots, no !!! Neither among civilians nor among the government, respectively. The article is wonderful, a huge plus to her !!!!!
                    1. Darkmor
                      Darkmor 17 November 2015 10: 52 New
                      +1
                      Need to develop your technology

                      Yes, yes, yes, everyone has heard about it a thousand times.
                      That's just no one is skipping to develop technology at an accelerated pace.
                      rather than buying a mechanism for an elevator at the price of mistral

                      Well, when you, specifically, can reproduce the same mechanism (and a thousand others) on a domestic basis - you will discuss the feasibility and price of the purchase.
                      I read a lot of opinions on the Mistrals, even before the Ukrainian crisis - and there wasn’t something there, among our shipbuilders, to create an analogue for the same amount and at the same time. So they do not know how. Well, if you can - go ahead ...
                      no patriots

                      Yes, a lot of patriots. There are no brains. Some patriots think that it is enough to fart, and you can fly to Mars, or to degenerate the Russian helicopter carrier on the same patriotism and holy spirit.
                      nose wiped with mistral

                      I don’t know to whom they have lost something. As a result, in France there were major indignations under the terms of the termination of the transaction, and in Russia, everyone was happy. So, Russia has so politely and courteously wiped its nose (is it?) That we even liked it.
                  2. Olezhek
                    17 November 2015 08: 46 New
                    0
                    The author of the article is not technically savvy in some things, because of what are wrong conclusions.
                    For example, the author thinks that Mistrals are ships, or blueprints for ships.

                    These are technical documentation for THOUSAND mechanisms, bundles, blocks, connections, etc.


                    These details are not important.
                  3. lukewarm
                    lukewarm 17 November 2015 10: 41 New
                    0
                    Quote: Darkmor
                    Better make friends with his master.

                    Already tried. Even worse. On the use of mistral. Here is the Nicaraguan Canal.
                    http://www.mk.ru/politics/2015/01/12/novaya-tochka-protivostoyaniya-rossii-i-ssh
                    a-mezhokeanskiy-kanal-v-nikaragua.html
                    On the net I read the opinion that the Mistral there would be very useful.
                    1. Secta haki
                      Secta haki 18 November 2015 16: 21 New
                      0
                      there are no ports where you can unload in the usual way?
            2. Siberian1965
              Siberian1965 16 November 2015 18: 44 New
              +8
              In your opinion, if the counterpart in the heat of the moment misinterpreted the title of the book, the general meaning of his entire speech will be equal to zero. And if he tries to tell you about the murderers at the entrance of your house. In general, pulling commas out of the text, inaccuracies in the construction of phrases or some factual errors, moving away from the general idea of ​​the text or speech, is a long-standing, since the time of Greece, a way to "troll" the interlocutor. This, by the way, is what ladies often do in scandals. I liked the article. For a long time, the very same thoughts wander, throw us everywhere. Calibers from the Caspian, I think, are still a necessary measure, to bring the Western rotten stuff back to life, otherwise they are completely morose.
            3. The comment was deleted.
        2. avdkrd
          avdkrd 14 November 2015 15: 42 New
          17
          Quote: venaya
          Quote: MIKHAN
          Russia has always been by itself and they are afraid of it! And they’re doing it right

          Our task, in the end, is to not be afraid but respected. Although, for these Western savages, apparently this is the same thing, but it's a pity.

          Western culture respects only power, and in the subject of the article, Russia has lost the illusion that it is possible to deal with the West as partners
          1. bastard
            bastard 16 November 2015 12: 06 New
            17
            Quote: avdkrd
            Western culture respects only power, and in the subject of the article, Russia has lost the illusion that it is possible to deal with the West as partners

            I hope that I will survive and see with my own eyes how Russia will get rid of the illusions that one needs to keep an eye on the East and not turn the soul inside out. No Europeans and all kinds of Chinese there will ever and never build for us a quality economy and infrastructure until we do it ourselves. There will be no Western investment (unprofitable) or the latest technology (no fools) for any carriage. We must remove the noodles from our ears and rebuild the country ourselves, as we need, without looking at the opinions and positions of anyone else. I already have no hopes for the current president and government, who have been telling tales for a quarter century, but those who will really engage in the country will light a fire in people, wake up the desire for knowledge and creation, until they make out, while I see some hucksters and talkers. But there is a feeling that someone should appear. We are waiting, sir.
        3. Maj.
          Maj. 15 November 2015 00: 25 New
          0
          right-afraid, then respected.
        4. Siberian
          Siberian 15 November 2015 18: 25 New
          +4
          "Respect is the key to managing people; fear is the highest form of respect." And, mind you - I didn't say that.
      2. Lelek
        Lelek 14 November 2015 11: 53 New
        19
        Quote: MIKHAN
        Russia has always been by itself and they are afraid of it!


        They respect only the strong, but they wipe their feet on the weak.
        (picture from the Western press)
        1. bulvas
          bulvas 14 November 2015 12: 00 New
          12

          The main attraction of the European Union for new members is the opportunity to go to work in Germany or Britain


          Britain is going to change the rules (to limit the influx of labor from Eastern Europe) Germany has its own "negros" - refugees.

          If everything develops as it is now, soon for new (Svidomo) EU members there will be no work in the EU

          It is interesting to see how things will develop in this case.





        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. dima mzk
          dima mzk 16 November 2015 18: 40 New
          0
          and where to get this ???? wrap the box good
        4. msm
          msm 16 November 2015 19: 44 New
          0
          Ukraine is already to gloss cleaned her boots about us. Yes Yes...
      3. Alexey Boukin
        Alexey Boukin 14 November 2015 12: 40 New
        0
        As far as I know, the unfinished training center is located in Mulino, Nizhny Novgorod region, and not in Monino, as the author presents to readers. To the minus author ...
        1. Ros64
          Ros64 14 November 2015 13: 51 New
          36
          The article is very smart, knowledgeable. And to put a minus due to an error (or typo) in the name - a lot of mind is not necessary.
          1. Karabanov
            Karabanov 14 November 2015 15: 16 New
            22
            Quote: Ros64
            The article is very smart, knowledgeable.

            I also liked the article. The author has reasonably laid out everything.
          2. vladimir_krm
            vladimir_krm 14 November 2015 22: 27 New
            +3
            Yes, I also put a plus. Sumptuously. Although I will make a reservation that the principle “Give me my cars, take your dolls, I don’t play with you anymore” does not work so directly. It's a little more complicated ...
        2. Mikado
          Mikado 14 November 2015 14: 28 New
          30
          Quote: alexey bukin
          As far as I know, the unfinished training center is located in Mulino, Nizhny Novgorod region, and not in Monino, as the author presents to readers. To the minus author ...

          If we talk about Pearl Harbor, then let Admiral Nagumo mention, and not Yamamoto.
          In short, the author’s confusion with history and geography.
          You can beat yourself with a heel in the chest for a long time, and scream that two troughs did not need to be ordered. But, if ordered, two ships of this class would clearly not be superfluous! And so there are few ships, and the main part of the BDK is Polish built in the 70-80s.
          And the embarrassment with the transfer of "Mistrals" showed only one thing - it is not necessary to replace your own with an imported one, if something happens, we will guess.
          Tsar Peter built a fleet from scratch, and poured his cannons. Now is not the 18th century, but the progress is not like in the 18th century. There is not enough money - let the deputies cut their salaries, and so there is no sense from them. Let Gazprom not buy another Negro in Zenit for $ 100 million, and so it will not help.
          It would be a political will, but you can create anything you want, and acquire any technology.
          1. V.ic
            V.ic 14 November 2015 16: 23 New
            -5
            Quote: Mikado
            Tsar Peter built a fleet from scratch, and his guns poured.

            As a result, Efimkov bought the lands conquered from Sweden for two lemons. Was it worth fighting for 20 years, ditching a lot of people ... The result is the result and cannot be revised, except in the "alternative reality".
            1. Secta haki
              Secta haki 14 November 2015 19: 37 New
              0
              Well, maybe it was necessary ...
            2. Mikado
              Mikado 14 November 2015 21: 44 New
              +3
              Due to this, we made a decent peace, and Sweden, bending all in the Baltic in the 17th century, has forever become a regional power. They tried to fight a couple of times, got lule, calmed down, they got a semblance of the Baltic states, only industry was bigger and social payments were bigger too. Remember what war crimes the Swedes committed during the Northern War ?? Does the surname Rönschild not say anything? These are crimes that could not have occurred to us! Think about it.
              And we built a worthy fleet and factories, the army acquired invaluable EXPERIENCE.
              1. V.ic
                V.ic 15 November 2015 14: 43 New
                +3
                Quote: Mikado
                And we built a worthy fleet and factories, the army acquired invaluable EXPERIENCE.

                "And we plowed," said a fly sitting on the ox's neck ... Well, where did that fleet go under Petrusha's successors? Rotted! Anna Ioannovna would not have had enough money for the maintenance of the fleet for pins. In reality, the Russian fleet, as a combat unit, was needed only under Catherine # 2. The army is - yes ... it is, of course, but Boris Petrovich Sheremetev, without any regiments of the new system, with the old army cleaned Livlandio from the Swedes.
              2. Secta haki
                Secta haki 16 November 2015 04: 22 New
                +1
                But was Sweden supposed to pay the indemnity as the losing side?
                And then how many wars were there with her that rose on this money? How much more blood has he shed?
          2. Olezhek
            14 November 2015 19: 52 New
            +6

            If we talk about Pearl Harbor, then let Admiral Nagumo mention, and not Yamamoto.


            In short, the author’s confusion with history and geography


            The developer of the attack on Pearl Harbor was Admiral Yhoroku Yamamoto. .
            Suddenly......
            Without Nagumo, Pearl Harbor would still have happened, would have found another performer
            Without the "crazy" Yamamoto, such an "outrage" was theoretically impossible.
            As a matter of principle, the bet on aircraft carriers in the Japanese fleet is largely his merit
            Legendary person.
            Now in Japan such "do not".
          3. Olezhek
            14 November 2015 20: 29 New
            +4
            If we talk about Pearl Harbor, then let Admiral Nagumo mention, and not Yamamoto.


            Yamomoto was so brutal that some in Japan accuse him (unfairly) of starting a war with the US
            But the creation of a powerful aircraft carrier fleet in Japan is largely his merit as well as his preparation and planning of his actions.
            I admit, I have always disliked Americans and always respected Yamomoto.
            Russia is now relevant to the creation of the carrier fleet and its training and organization.
            And this is what Isoroku Yamomoto was famous for.
            So I mentioned it absolutely consciously.
            Nagumo is not enough here.
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 14 November 2015 21: 42 New
              +2
              I had no doubt that you mentioned it consciously, in a global sense. But, speaking in terms of tactics and history, he mentioned Nagumo. Do not be offended. Deficiencies in the article and without me were revealed, Oleg, I just mentioned the features of the attacker tactically.
              There were many crazy people in Japan, write the following articles under Hommu Masaharu and Yamashita Tomoyuki, the "tiger of Malaya". It will be even more devastating for our "Western partners". You shouldn't write about Yida, Mutaguchi, Terauchi and Kumatsubaru, they only have one defeat.

              Oleg, we are waiting for further articles! Yours faithfully, hi
              1. Olezhek
                15 November 2015 16: 29 New
                +2
                I already knew that on this site is dangerous
                mention anybody or anything military in passing am

                Zagryzut and no bones left

                Let's be careful ... lol
      4. Maj.
        Maj. 15 November 2015 00: 24 New
        0
        Bye, I'm sorry, we chew snot
      5. 78bor1973
        78bor1973 16 November 2015 12: 45 New
        0
        And everything is simple - why do we need two half-aircraft carriers if we have just acquired a mega-aircraft carrier called "Crimea"! laughing
    2. KGB WATCH YOU
      KGB WATCH YOU 14 November 2015 11: 18 New
      11
      The year of the formation of the so-called European Union is 1951, when Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, France, Italy signed some kind of "coal and steel" agreement (I do not remember the exact name).

      Then this union expanded to the East, new agreements were signed, which led to the formation of the modern EU (Maastricht Treaty, 1992).
      1. jjj
        jjj 14 November 2015 11: 40 New
        +8
        Quote: KGB WATCH YOU
        1951, when Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, France, Italy signed some kind of "coal and steel" agreement (

        EUSC - European Coal and Steel Association
      2. Basarev
        Basarev 14 November 2015 11: 49 New
        +3
        And why, in general, did the EU accept all sorts of garbage countries as part of the nineties? They are of no use, only losses.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. bulvas
          bulvas 14 November 2015 12: 09 New
          +6
          Quote: Basarev
          And why, in general, did the EU accept all sorts of garbage countries as part of the nineties? They are of no use, only losses.


          The United States crushed. They could not accept them as their new states.

          And Europe was not profitable to abandon them.

          The USSR used to contain them (not only by direct injections, but also by developing their industry and integrating within the CMEA framework, providing demand and marketing of products), without new support, they would be mired in poverty and, eventually, would go back to Russia.

          Of the new members, unless Czechoslovakia was sufficiently developed, they divided it up and bought up industry.

          All other "Young Europeans" survive thanks to the opportunity to work in old Europe.

          In the big cities of Germany, the quarters are divided into "Turkish", "Romanian", "Polish" and others, each with its own contingent.
          Not to mention legal industries.

          Thus, tens of millions of Eastern Europeans are employed, so these countries cling to Europe
        3. Wheel
          Wheel 14 November 2015 14: 01 New
          12
          Quote: Basarev
          And why, in general, did the EU accept all sorts of garbage countries as part of the nineties? They are of no use, only losses.
          How is this why?
          Guaranteed sales markets, almost free labor.
          In fact, the same colonies, only at hand.
        4. I am Russian
          I am Russian 14 November 2015 15: 39 New
          +5
          Quote: Basarev
          And why, in general, did the EU accept all sorts of garbage countries as part of the nineties? They are of no use, only losses.


          Markets, markets, and again markets. On the contrary. From the EU, the signatory country will be sent to the eurozone, the conditions (for each his own) are sent for entry. The country of the signatory, fulfills - so it stands in line. But at the same time, under the conditions, it opens its market for goods from the EU. The signatory country industry is falling apart and falling into decay.
          1. Russiamoy
            Russiamoy 14 November 2015 17: 36 New
            +1
            I totally agree. Sorry did not see your koment and repeated.
        5. TVM - 75
          TVM - 75 14 November 2015 16: 14 New
          +1
          And this is the policy involved. They teased the east with their abundance, and so they asked for a visit.
        6. Russiamoy
          Russiamoy 14 November 2015 17: 29 New
          +3
          firstly, EU members = NATO members. secondly, these are labor resources and markets. many more advantages for Germany and other EU locomotives. and I also think that they want the local population to come to naught, to the level of the local ethnic group (a small minority) and the territory is free. brainwashing, referendum, the main thing is to forget about self-identity and attach.
        7. Alf
          Alf 14 November 2015 23: 12 New
          +1
          Quote: Basarev
          And why, in general, did the EU accept all sorts of garbage countries as part of the nineties? They are of no use, only losses.

          One of the pluses was the reduction in labor costs in the countries of old Europe (where is now Bulgarian pepper, Bulgarian nuclear power plant, Hungarian Ikarus, Baltic WEF and RAF?) And the emergence of new markets.
      3. dr.Bo
        dr.Bo 14 November 2015 11: 57 New
        +8
        Russia will have to defend its position from the attacks of the West ALWAYS! The main thing is to have it. And it is impossible to forget these betrayals (with the Mistrals) under any circumstances, let alone forgive.
        France must answer to the Russian Federation for its spineless posture. Yes, it’s a dog-like pose!
        1. dr.Bo
          dr.Bo 14 November 2015 11: 58 New
          +2
          I express my condolences to the French about the attacks.
    3. 79807420129
      79807420129 14 November 2015 11: 36 New
      40
      Note to the author: Rem Vyakhirev died on 11.02.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX, and has not driven Gazprom for a long time, we need to develop our own production and agriculture so that we do not depend on the vagaries of any Western monkeys, though this takes time and performers, but not an iPhone , you can’t trust him a doghouse, and Mistral and to hell with them, but now we know that the EU is not a kind of partner, not independent serfs of mattresses.
      1. Olezhek
        14 November 2015 11: 42 New
        +5
        Note to the author: Rem Vyakhirev passed away on 11.02.2013 of the year, and has long been no longer driving Gazprom,


        I know who steers Gazprom - and who created Gazprom and planned further expansion into Europe?
        The consequences of strategic decisions are manifested through the years, decades.
      2. Stena
        Stena 14 November 2015 12: 41 New
        +4
        Quote: 79807420129
        we need to develop our own production and agriculture ourselves, so as not to depend on the vagaries of any Western monkeys

        + 1!!!
        Quote: 79807420129
        and Mistral and to hell with them, but now we know that the EU is not holding a word like a partner, not independent serfs of mattresses

        Jews took their strength by force when there was a similar case ...
    4. milann
      milann 14 November 2015 12: 02 New
      +5
      Quote: vorobey
      EU in 70 years ... author two points for homework ... Half of the EU was then part of CMEA

      and in general status, status ... without a quo, this status is nothing ... but we have a quo .. as shown recently .. so Europeans have something to think about ...

      Did the author give reason to doubt your statement?
      It seems that the thoughts in the article are reasonably balanced and objective.
      1. vorobey
        vorobey 14 November 2015 14: 13 New
        +5
        Quote: milann
        It seems that the thoughts in the article are reasonably balanced and objective.


        I agree, but the general conclusion is given in the title ... we have not lost anything as it seems to me .. on the contrary, our eyes have opened even wider to the "partners" and we are no longer as loyal as we used to be ready to endure their antics ...

        Yes, and conclusions on the Mistrals such as investing extra money in useless ships, it’s not profitable as it is ...
    5. PlotnikoffDD
      PlotnikoffDD 14 November 2015 12: 21 New
      +1
      The European Economic Community (abbreviated EEC) is a regional integration association of twelve European states that existed from 1957 to 1993.
      1. BMW
        BMW 14 November 2015 13: 40 New
        +4
        The article is good, everything is sorted out.
        I disagree on one thing, we don’t need the Mistral sideways, it was a squat in front of the west. For this deflection we were given in the face. In addition, in fact, we funded French shipbuilding at a difficult time for her.
        With this money we had to build our own shipyard, we need it like air.
        In this story, we are on all sides at a loss. There is no shipyard, there are no mistrals, they did not even give interest on loans. hi
        1. lonovila
          lonovila 14 November 2015 16: 24 New
          +4
          - "Mistrals" would always come in handy for Russia ... - Although in the Far East (against the Chinese and Japan), ... and even now ... - during the military operation in Syria ... - How many tasks could they solve? really provide when performing combat operations ...
          -And provide full, very accurate intelligence, and fire adjustments, and support for the operation directly from their decks, and completely "muffle and neutralize" all radio ... television ... satellite messages from Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc. ... - and deprive ISIS of all means of communication ... - "Mistrals", in addition to their "helicopter-carrying" and landing functions ... - these are the newest universal command posts ... and that says it all ... -It is a pity that they did not go to Russia ...
    6. Tor5
      Tor5 14 November 2015 12: 49 New
      +3
      The only plus of the article is that it is confirmed that we already know: decisions are made across the ocean.
    7. The comment was deleted.
    8. Vadimsh
      Vadimsh 14 November 2015 15: 27 New
      0
      Yes, there was no EU in the 70s, but this is not the point, there was still trade (which even July 22, 41 trade contracts with Germany were still being fulfilled, and bombs were already falling). That's right Europe is constantly under the silent cry constantly turning backwards to mutually beneficial contracts
      1. marinier
        marinier 14 November 2015 21: 09 New
        0
        Dear!
        You wanted to write 22 Junia.
        With respect!
        1. The comment was deleted.
    9. onizhe
      onizhe 15 November 2015 10: 39 New
      +3
      Why 2 points? The EU already existed then, only we called it the "common market". Just in case, the author even drew a map of the then EU, and there are definitely no CMEA countries there. The message of the article is clear. What was the "common market" has become a political entity with exorbitant ambitions. We are not on our way with them, even if some momentary problems become common to us. Their goal is clear, to make the EU a unitary state, i.e. empire, but for this it is necessary to destroy the nations that make up this EU. To do this, it is necessary to destroy the value system that supported the existence of nation states. Therefore, the church, family values, national traditions are subjected to persecution and ridicule. But atheism, homosexuality and multiculturalism are supported in every possible way. By the way, the latter requires not just a few, but crowds of migrants. We are a multicultural empire with 500 years of experience. For the existence of our culture, new value systems are not needed, we completely manage with the traditional ones. Therefore, we are entering into a contradiction with Europe, and again into an ideological one. Only now they are "revolutionaries", while we are conservative traditionalists. This alone pushes them to active actions, sometimes thoughtless. In fact, the confrontation with a united Europe is now even at a higher level than in the 70s, as the author mentioned. The question of our survival is the preservation of traditional values, which, oddly enough, do not contradict our multiculturalism. The question of their origin is the destruction of these values.
    10. 2ez
      2ez 16 November 2015 11: 06 New
      0
      Take your time to put a mark on the author ... Look at the 1973 map, where the countries of the West are clearly shown, without CMEA ... the author of greatFF!
    11. max702
      max702 16 November 2015 15: 19 New
      +4
      Bravo to the author! Great article, especially the first part! It is explained in simple and understandable language that we will NEVER DO BUSINESS HONESTLY! For one simple reason, in this case they are not able to compete with us, and this is where these "unthinkable" violations of everything and everything come from. There will be no business and mutual understanding, but only a brazen robbery! The most important thing is for our "elite!" To understand that they will be listened to and heard only if behind their back there will be a strong country in which they all "earned" with "overwhelming" work! That if she (the country) can protect their interests, then only successfully they will be able to conduct their own affairs .. And no matter how they go to bed, no matter how they lick their foreign "partners", they will never become equal to them, and they will be needed only as long as they supply any values, a very good example of BA Berezovsky, as he is for them (partners) did not try as soon as the country (which gave him everything) did not destroy / sell .. but became unnecessary (worked out its resource) was milked to the skin and hung on a scarf in the bathroom serving as an example for others .. It must finally reach them that you need to think about your country, invest money in it, work for it, and they will have everything.VP have said many times - Come back, I will forgive everything! That's all, the division of THEIR honestly earned not only has begun, but has already ended and goes banal paper legalregistration to whom how much .. After all, invoices and unfulfilled contracts are only the first swallow, followed by the arrest of all kinds of business, the arrest of real estate, yachts and other nishtyaks. the next stage will be the departure of children from Yale and Harvard, the imprisonment of household members for drugs or for some other reason, and as the apotheosis of all this, the accusation of espionage, followed by sending immigrants from Russia to concentration camps like the Japanese in World War II in the USA .. Someone will say that I am exaggerating? No! I'm afraid that I am looking at the world through rose-colored glasses, and the reality will be an order of magnitude tougher and more terrible .. Let's admit that Ukraine now would have the opportunity to take control of Russia .. And what do you think the case would have risen behind the concentration camps? Or behind mass shootings? Or with the removal of something valuable from the Russian population, who would have any questions? No! All this would be with smiles and approval. whoever wants can see the chronicle and numerous photos of the invaders from Europe during the Great Patriotic War .. All this has already happened! So we need less sentiment towards Europeans and other riffraffs, THEY ARE ENEMY! And he treats them accordingly, without repeating past mistakes.
    12. FM-78
      FM-78 16 November 2015 21: 52 New
      0
      Have you tried to watch a map?
    13. Just BB
      Just BB 17 November 2015 06: 54 New
      0
      The European Community is an association of states striving for political and economic unity with a partial renunciation of their national sovereignty.
      The European Union was created on the basis of the Treaty of Rome, signed on March 25, 1957 by Belgium, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Germany and France. In 1973, Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom joined these countries, in 1981 - Greece, and in 1986 - Spain and Portugal.
      Austria, Finland and Sweden became members of the Union in January 1995, after the issue of EU accession was approved in June, October and November 1994. The issue of Norway joining the EU was positively resolved during the negotiations, but during the national referendum on November 27-28, 1994, 52,5% of the Norwegians who participated in the referendum voted against membership in the European Union.

      The European Community was created as a result of the merger of the European Coal and Steel Association, founded on April 18, 1951, with the European Economic Community and the European Atomic Energy Agency (EURATOM), founded by the 1957 Rome Agreement.
      The goal of the creation of the UES was to achieve the “comprehensive development of economic activity” across the entire community, “constant and uniform development, increasing stability, speedy improvement of living standards and closer ties between the states that it unites” by creating a “Common Market”.


      Somehow about balls for "homework" it turns out "dumb" - you can not smoke lessons!
  2. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 14 November 2015 11: 11 New
    +5
    "Misrali" is short ... I am very glad that it happened!
    1. jjj
      jjj 14 November 2015 11: 46 New
      +5
      Look at this matter under what plane. In order to stimulate not the sale of the Mistrals to Russia, the events with the Charlie and the simultaneous terrorist attacks came to the fore. The Mistrals were sold to Egypt. A plane built in France with Russian tourists falls behind in Egypt. The tourist blockade of Egypt begins. And in France on Friday, the 13th, terrorist attacks with the seizure and killing of hostages took place in several places. The explosion was even in the vicinity of the stadium, where the French President watched a friendly football match between France and Germany.
      1. Olezhek
        14 November 2015 11: 50 New
        +9
        And in France on Friday, 13-th in several places there were terrorist attacks


        And all journalists overlooked this fact - and the name for the article is killer ...

        Paris. Friday. Thirteenth
    2. lelikas
      lelikas 14 November 2015 11: 53 New
      10
      Quote: MIKHAN
      "Misrali" is short ... I am very glad that it happened!

      But not me . They are now really needed on the Syrian Express.
      1. lukke
        lukke 14 November 2015 12: 48 New
        +5
        But not me . They are now really needed on the Syrian Express
        and not container ships?
        1. lelikas
          lelikas 14 November 2015 16: 49 New
          +1
          Quote: lukke
          and not container ships?

          Yes, even supertankers are a warship, in addition to being adapted for transporting equipment, no one has the right to detain, stop and inspect it, we also stole our civilian fleet, now we take it from the Turks with the introduction of the fleet.
    3. I am Russian
      I am Russian 14 November 2015 15: 46 New
      +1
      It was necessary to ask the Italians for the DKVD. They still collaborated with the Union. Fleet, atomic bombing ... etc.
      1. Rader
        Rader 14 November 2015 22: 14 New
        +1
        Quote: lelikas
        Quote: lukke
        and not container ships?

        Yes, even supertankers are a warship, in addition to being adapted for transporting equipment, no one has the right to detain, stop and inspect it, we also stole our civilian fleet, now we take it from the Turks with the introduction of the fleet.

        The lack of military transports is a huge problem. Not long ago the "liberals" were yelling: why does Russia need military transports, who is Russia going to attack !? And now the BDK and all the trash are used as trucks.
        Quote: I-Russian
        It was necessary to ask the Italians for the DKVD. They still collaborated with the Union. Fleet, atomic bombing ... etc.

        The Italians? ... And how are they fundamentally different from the French? Why do you think Italians would have done otherwise?
    4. gispanec
      gispanec 14 November 2015 17: 45 New
      +3
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Misrali "in short ... I'm very glad it happened!

      Misrali for Michali shorter ... instead of stupid posts, I would include my head
  3. venaya
    venaya 14 November 2015 11: 13 New
    15
    in the modern world, no nation, with the possible exception of the Chinese, can produce everything

    On the one hand, I agree with the author, but on the other, it’s unpleasant. We live in a world where we need to produce everything that is required for the defense of our country.
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 14 November 2015 11: 25 New
      10
      Quote: venaya
      in the modern world, no nation, with the possible exception of the Chinese, can produce everything

      On the one hand, I agree with the author, but on the other, it’s unpleasant. We live in a world where we need to produce everything that is required for the defense of our country.

      We in the USSR demonstrated that we are able to produce everything ourselves .. (from needles to orbital stations))) The West didn’t like it terribly ... We tried the economic scenario of theirs ... Blood, war, and there is nothing to eat but a beautiful wrapper! am
      1. Olezhek
        14 November 2015 11: 40 New
        0
        We in the USSR demonstrated that we are able to produce everything ourselves .. (from needles to orbital stations))


        It is possible, but expensive (the curse of small series)
        They in the EU also need our resources
        1. onix757
          onix757 14 November 2015 11: 44 New
          +3
          The problem is that we cannot refuse to import and at the same time block export. Any slap should be answered that Russia is not going to respond to sanctions.
        2. MIKHAN
          MIKHAN 14 November 2015 11: 48 New
          +5
          Quote: Olezhek
          We in the USSR demonstrated that we are able to produce everything ourselves .. (from needles to orbital stations))


          It is possible, but expensive (the curse of small series)
          They in the EU also need our resources

          Yes, expensive! Our economy is being destroyed by "dumping prices" .. It's easier to buy, and not to produce ourselves .... THERE IS ONLY SANCTIONS THERE ARE INTRODUCED! If they don’t like something! Thank God they aren’t completely addicted to this "needle" of the West ...
        3. sniper
          sniper 14 November 2015 12: 09 New
          +6
          Quote: Olezhek
          They in the EU also need our resources

          We need, of course, but on their terms ... And they are not going to reckon with us and our interests. We must pay tribute to the author, a competent analysis of the situation has been carried out, albeit with some inaccuracies and controversial points, but in the main he is completely right. Why not remember Krylov’s fable:
          ... You are only guilty of what I want to eat ...

          Toka, the lamb was toothy ... wassat
          1. Stena
            Stena 14 November 2015 12: 52 New
            +5
            Quote: sniper
            We must pay tribute to the author, a competent analysis of the situation has been carried out, albeit with some inaccuracies and controversial points, but in the main he is completely right

            Yes, all who at least a little bit came across and studied history knew about it.
            About the fact that the French are an unreliable partner - after the refusal to supply boats to the Jews ...
            About how the business is conducted - no one hid anything, they just led us and we led ourselves to beautiful wrappers ...
            About the fact that the collapse of the USSR made rich and extended life to capitalism in Europe and the United States, which were already on the verge ...
            And most importantly, in Russia the economy has never stood ahead of the national idea. That's when nat. there was no idea - the hucksters got out on the first place, which they bought cheap stuff cheaply, and sold at exorbitant prices - their favorite thing. Now we disentangle ...
            Therefore, the author did not say anything new, and the analysis, to put it mildly - weak - all the evidence - from the heading - OBS. There are no digits ...
            I am glad that at present the national idea is being revived and actions are being taken that will further allow us not to depend on the whims of "business partners" ...
  4. izya top
    izya top 14 November 2015 11: 14 New
    +3
    I don’t understand, but will there be a visa-free visa for skakame? wassat
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 14 November 2015 11: 49 New
      +1
      Quote: izya top
      I don’t understand, but will there be a visa-free visa for skakame?

      No, there will be new geyropeytsy to them. From the Middle East. They are needed there as cannon fodder.
    2. Vladimir 1964
      Vladimir 1964 14 November 2015 12: 39 New
      0
      Quote: izya top
      I don’t understand, but will there be a visa-free visa for skakame?

      Will, Izzy, of course it will, only twenty years have to wait. yes
    3. The comment was deleted.
  5. APASUS
    APASUS 14 November 2015 11: 18 New
    10
    In many ways, exactly what happened in Ukraine and the ensuing war gave the United States a chance to retain NATO and slowly return Europe to political control. Actually, the Americans compensate themselves for all the economic losses due to the new Europe, and subsequent enslavement is inevitable.
    Russia needs a strong president or our days are numbered. Recent events show that you can play with the West only by their methods. No laws, rules on their territory apply. There is also a doping scandal, MH-17, showdowns with Volkswagen, the IMF for Ukraine, according to essentially the rules of the game are written and changed by the writer !!!
  6. sichevik
    sichevik 14 November 2015 11: 20 New
    +3
    Well, maybe enough about the Mistrals. What is done is done. How much they gained, why and how much they lost. But now we know perfectly well who is hu. It is time to begin to become more self-sufficient. And do not be dependent on someone. I understand that not everything is so simple and not all at once ... But when something needs to be started.
    1. Olezhek
      14 November 2015 11: 32 New
      +4
      Well, maybe enough already about Mistral. What is done is done. How many acquired, what and how much lost.


      Opel theme also died.
      Europe has remained.
      The matter is in principle or in its absence
    2. Karabanov
      Karabanov 14 November 2015 15: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: sichevik
      Well, maybe enough about the Mistrals. What is done is done. How much they gained, why and how much they lost. But now we know perfectly well who is hu. It is time to begin to become more self-sufficient. And do not be dependent on someone. I understand that not everything is so simple and not all at once ... But when something needs to be started.

      It is wonderful that you, I, and many others understood this ... But unfortunately this is not enough to change the situation. This requires awareness by those who are responsible for making decisions. And this, as you can see, does not happen ...
      At the same time, the option is very acceptable when those who make decisions fully understand their harmfulness and harm. In this case, we are talking about the deliberate betrayal of the interests of the country or banal greed ... That the essence is the same. This seems to me and is our main problem and trouble.
  7. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 14 November 2015 11: 21 New
    +4
    Who writes the rules, he changes them. But you can always get a chessboard and get it on the head.
  8. atamankko
    atamankko 14 November 2015 11: 21 New
    +3
    Recently, Russia's forecasts are usually justified,
    The West is extremely angry, but the right conclusions are not made.
  9. Koshak
    Koshak 14 November 2015 11: 22 New
    +6
    There is only one conclusion - you need to act in YOUR interests yes ... And let the "partners" take care of themselves hi
  10. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 14 November 2015 11: 23 New
    +3
    I do not know what to say. On the one hand, we were treated like a pig, on the other, we returned the money, and the prestige of France, as a trading partner, has been undermined. And of course, you need to develop your technologies in order not to be dependent on everything and everyone.
  11. Shilochnik
    Shilochnik 14 November 2015 11: 25 New
    +5
    I absolutely agree! The only question is, why do they give up obvious economic benefits? In whose favor? Although the answer is obvious ..... :) it’s like at school ... One hooligan leads the whole class of nods and nerds who agree with everything .... Europe with a thousand-year history silently takes in from 200-year-old cowboys ..... Shame on their bad heads ....
  12. Mihalich17
    Mihalich17 14 November 2015 11: 26 New
    -1
    And where does the article Rem Ivanovich Vyakhirev ?????????????????????????????????
    He died on February 11, 2013.
    1. Olezhek
      14 November 2015 11: 36 New
      +3
      Rem Ivanovich Vyakhirev?


      With him, the problems in Europe were no less than under Miller ...
      I simply designated Gazprom - and Gazprom and its creation are connected with Vyakhirev
      The point is not in the head of Gazprom, but in the EU and their rules.
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts 14 November 2015 13: 26 New
        0
        If we talk about the founding fathers of Gazprom, then this is to Chernomyrdin. It was he who broke the corporatization and created the OJSC from the ministry. Vyakhirev was his deputy. And he ruled it after Chernomyrdin left for politics.
        1. Olezhek
          14 November 2015 13: 28 New
          0
          Well, you can write Chernomyrdin, Vyakhirev .... Miller - not fools even once.
          But I wrote shorter.
  13. provincial
    provincial 14 November 2015 11: 30 New
    +2
    again, someone is longing for the Mistrals. The whole train was gone, not we lost, but the French face and reputation of a reliable partner.
    1. Olezhek
      14 November 2015 11: 44 New
      0
      All the train left, we did not lose, and the French face and reputation of a reliable partner.


      And how do we continue to build relationships with them?
      1. provincial
        provincial 14 November 2015 11: 58 New
        +1
        time will tell
      2. vorobey
        vorobey 14 November 2015 19: 01 New
        +2
        Quote: Olezhek
        All the train left, we did not lose, and the French face and reputation of a reliable partner.


        And how do we continue to build relationships with them?


        Us? no way ... let them think .. or did we make a puddle?
  14. NordUral
    NordUral 14 November 2015 11: 33 New
    -4
    Tears of a liberal.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 14 November 2015 21: 41 New
      0
      And what does not like my remark? And have friends of liberals already made their way to us?
  15. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 14 November 2015 11: 38 New
    +8
    And this is how they "pushed" us "Mistrals
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 14 November 2015 11: 55 New
      12
      Quote: VohaAhov
      And this is how they "pushed" us "Mistrals

      And so - we cannot replace them with anything ....
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 14 November 2015 21: 43 New
        0
        Why do you need "mistrals"? Where are you going to land?
  16. evil partisan
    evil partisan 14 November 2015 11: 40 New
    10
    A wonderful, clever article with excellent argumentation. I will follow the publications of this Author. hi
  17. Altona
    Altona 14 November 2015 11: 42 New
    +4
    So many words, and practically not a single bright thought ... Well, the French did not fulfill the contract, others will fulfill, what is the problem then? Let France itself dissolve the consequences of its policy, obey whom it wants, accepts whom it wants ... Yesterday's terrorist attack is again a call to them that they are doing wrong ...
    1. andj61
      andj61 14 November 2015 11: 55 New
      +8
      Quote: Altona
      So many words, and practically not a single bright thought ... Well, the French did not fulfill the contract, others will fulfill, what is the problem then? Let France itself dissolve the consequences of its policy, obey whom it wants, accepts whom it wants ... Yesterday's terrorist attack is again a call to them that they are doing wrong ...

      And the Mistrals themselves - as well as a host of other similar moments - are evidence that Europe (England, France, Germany - first of all) does not treat Russia as an equal partner - here the author is right. And for any reason, pursue a discriminatory policy against us.
      1. Altona
        Altona 14 November 2015 12: 42 New
        +1
        Quote: andj61
        And the Mistrals themselves - as well as a host of other similar moments - are evidence that Europe (England, France, Germany - first of all) does not treat Russia as an equal partner - here the author is right.

        ------------------------------
        And we have never been equal partners, this is an axiom, and we should never have deceived ourselves ... It has been since the days of the USSR ...
        1. onix757
          onix757 14 November 2015 12: 48 New
          +2
          Just in the times of the USSR they were equal, though not partners but potential opponents. It was necessary to keep half the world for coca in order to hold the Olympics, scoring the opinion of "civilized" countries. Today it is not possible to carry out such an action while ignoring the West, nobody will come to us corny.
    2. Chiropractor
      Chiropractor 14 November 2015 12: 38 New
      +3
      The problem is not specifically in France and the Mistrals, but the fact that we are not partners for them, but savages got out of the snowdrift: if they want, they will give back the value or resource they have already bought, they don’t want to - they will not give it back. And you won’t do anything with them - because you can only survive, and it’s wonderful to create in your leisure time. And you can tear off your bosom with a light slap to the back of their head - therefore, you cannot reason with the slap, and you will not make a word of it, they have no conscience.
  18. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 14 November 2015 11: 44 New
    +5
    The author thickens the colors. The whole politics of Europe is a strange mixture of "the position of the ostrich" and the "position of the fighting cock." Moreover, it crows - without any reason, and at the slightest sign of danger it sticks its head in the sand. With "Mistrals" Russia "came out beautifully", not only returning the money, but also receiving a contract for helicopters, and the use of two practically Mediterranean ships in the Pacific Fleet, not only for me, an artillery gunner, raised doubts, but also for the "Sea Wolves" who know those places not by hearsay. We still didn’t have enough to save these pelvis during a storm somewhere in the region of the Northern Kuriles.
    1. gjv
      gjv 14 November 2015 14: 22 New
      +2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      helicopter contract

      Past the topic of a helicopter carrier, but I will report on helicopters.
      In the coming days, a state contract will be concluded for the supply of six Ka-226T helicopters in the deck version for deployment on the project 22460 border patrol ships. In the first tender, announced in September, the KumAPP application was rejected on formal grounds. In a second auction in November, KumAPP became the only bidder, and therefore the contract will be concluded at an initial price of 2,248 billion rubles.

      What kind of equipment is being pushed into the offshore border Ka-226T, what is the price noticeably higher than the Mi-8AMTS? request
  19. Stinger
    Stinger 14 November 2015 11: 44 New
    +6
    The article is good.
    Does this remind you of a madhouse?
    asks the author. It has long been reminiscent of. and the delights of capitalism, so beloved by our liberals and not only them. And democracy is reminiscent of a pure water breeder. And the story with the Mistrals only confirms this.
  20. amba balamut 77
    amba balamut 77 14 November 2015 11: 45 New
    +6
    Author and article plus. There is nothing to replace them now. And for a long time there will be nothing. Soviet BDK level lower, they are few and will soon leave the stage. The main trump card of the French project is autonomy, which is very important for maintenance. How much do we build Grena? Let's be clean, the Russian fleet is needed, the fleet needs ships, with the Mistals we were sent a year ago, how much during this time the fleet received the ships of our construction? When did the fleet replenish with a surface ship of more than 10 tons? Look at the map, the Kuril Islands, Kamchatka, Chukotka, is this land from which we immediately forget in a serious mess? If not, how can I bring reinforcements there? BATM, RS, STR? Maybe I'm wrong, but the Pacific Fleet lost a lot and that means all of us.
    1. provincial
      provincial 14 November 2015 12: 01 New
      -2
      You offend our military-industrial complex, already what we are doing, the time will come show.
    2. ZAV69
      ZAV69 14 November 2015 13: 12 New
      +2
      For tof, the Eagle and Borodino would be more useful than these Mistrals. What is Mistral? Landing ships. Are we going to land an assault somewhere? Unfortunately, Mistrals without a warrant are just targets, do we have five frigates to accompany them? No. If you look at the composition of the Japanese naval self-defense forces ..... They will trample the tof faster than Togo Rozhdestvensky under Tsushima and the Mistrals will be taken as a prize. The only thing that is holding back Japan right now is nuclear weapons. But all the same, Japan has already set its sights on RPE 2. It seems that they are quietly riveting about now, with their technological development in 3-5 years they will have it. Now for the Pacific Fleet we need to build new frigates and corvettes with calibers, repair Atlanta and eagles, transfer ash, rivet lad and Warsaw, arm the Kuril Islands with coastal complexes.
      Mistrals unfortunately are politics, European politics, but all European politics is tightly controlled from the USA. And since the author is right, business with Europe is possible only in small things.
      1. lelikas
        lelikas 14 November 2015 13: 48 New
        +5
        Quote: ZAV69
        Landing ships. Are we going to land an assault somewhere?

        Ask the Syrians how our "old men" amphibious from one run to another. Or from the Turks who happily sold us transport ships. Having not received the Mistral, they really got the trough.
        1. ZAV69
          ZAV69 14 November 2015 14: 31 New
          0
          It is foolish to use a fishing vessel where a bulk carrier or container ship is needed. Do not allow to carry civil courts? We put an artillery mount on the same dry cargo ship, raise the Andreev flag and get an auxiliary cruiser. It seems that even in the Second World War they were used. And carry
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. gjv
        gjv 14 November 2015 14: 17 New
        0
        Quote: ZAV69
        equip the Kuril Islands with coastal complexes.

        + good
  21. Skif83
    Skif83 14 November 2015 11: 49 New
    +2
    An article, in my opinion, with a liberal foul.
    Here is the beginning about prices and terms ... blah blah blah.
    What can we say about prices and terms, when you need to initially talk about EXPEDIENCY and NECESSITY!
    All that is said about international cooperation is all, essence, liberal nonsense.
    This "cooperation" has already resulted in the destruction of its own heavy machine building, machine tool building, electronics, etc. Actually, like the destruction of their own "brains", that is, qualified personnel.
    What? Not enough of this nonsense?

    As in the legendary film: - I will not give the pipe, the horse and the wife to anyone!
    Or all I carry with me!

    In short, YOU MUST HAVE YOUR OWN, and when it is lost, of course, there will be songs about "cooperation" ...

    As for the Mistralek, the cost of one Yuri Dolgoruky-class nuclear submarine was 23 billion rubles at the same time.
    Transferring to eureka, it turns out we could build the 4 nuclear submarines with the same money, which the Yankees are really afraid of!
    And who was afraid of Mistralek?
    And besides, it is the restoration and development of their own technologies, a bunch of jobs, etc.

    And the main thing, in my opinion, Russia has always been a tidbit for the West, because all the creeps in terms of any kind of cooperation should be considered as a creeping intervention. And even more so in the field of defense.
    This is the same as letting the enemy collect and charge their barrel - NONSENS, in my opinion!
    1. Stena
      Stena 14 November 2015 12: 56 New
      0
      Quote: Skif83
      An article, in my opinion, with a liberal foul.

      Absolutely.
      I'm sorry - some kind of nonsense - put you a plus, but instead of rating 2 you displayed 1. Nothing is clear ....
    2. ImPerts
      ImPerts 14 November 2015 13: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: Skif83

      As for the Mistralek, the cost of one Yuri Dolgoruky-class nuclear submarine was 23 billion rubles at the same time.
      Transferring to eureka, it turns out we could build the 4 nuclear submarines with the same money, which the Yankees are really afraid of!
      And who was afraid of Mistralek?
      And besides, it is the restoration and development of their own technologies, a bunch of jobs, etc.

      Money was and is. Shipyards, people, etc.
      When Sevmash restored Vikramadityu, they were looking for welders all over the country.
      "MOSCOW, June 18 - RIA Novosti. Russia has decided to purchase Mistral-class helicopter carriers in order to obtain technologies for the construction of large-displacement ships - helicopter carriers and aircraft carriers," Chairman of the All-Russian Fleet Support Movement, Captain First Rank Mikhail Nenashev told RIA Novosti.

      Earlier, Alexei Dikiy, director of the military-technical cooperation department of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), told RIA Novosti that France had transferred to Russia the large-block assembly technology used in the construction of the Mistrals.
      http://vpk.name/news/134219_nenashev_tehnologii_mistralei_nuzhnyi_rossii_dlya_sv
      oih_avianoscev.html? last
      1. Olezhek
        14 November 2015 17: 16 New
        0
        When Sevmash restored Vikramadityu, they were looking for welders all over the country.


        Taki country needed no current managers and bandos?
        I do not believe! belay
  22. vmo
    vmo 14 November 2015 11: 49 New
    -2
    The author is two points for knowledge of history! And the misrali were chosen by the workers of the "strategist" Serdyukov, who were not needed by their name.
  23. Mikhail Krapivin
    Mikhail Krapivin 14 November 2015 11: 53 New
    +3
    Quote: provincial
    again, someone is longing for the Mistrals. The whole train was gone, not we lost, but the French face and reputation of a reliable partner.


    The article is not about the Mistrals, the article about relations with Europe, or rather about the prospects for their absence. From myself I can add with all my familiar words - let them not love, if only they were afraid. And France received her yesterday, both for Charlie, and for the Mistral, and for all the good ...
  24. ImPerts
    ImPerts 14 November 2015 11: 56 New
    +4
    Mistrals are a ball of interests. One of the poles is problem 08.08.08. Sarkozy traveled a lot in Europe and South Ossetia with Abkhazia de facto independent states, no sanctions were imposed.
    Further, technology transfer. 1 technology (as I understand it, this is a large-block assembly) went to USC, the other two to the Ministry of Defense (which I don’t know, I suspect that the CIUS). Technologies always cost money, but they even returned it.
    Another plus is the loading work of domestic manufacturers. Parts of the case were made in the USC, so to speak, they worked out the technology. Equipment, helicopters, etc.
    And who won or lost?
    Our country certainly did not lose.
  25. Tambov Wolf
    Tambov Wolf 14 November 2015 11: 58 New
    +5
    With "Mistrals" for a long time everything is clear. First, with his blessing they were ordered, and then with his blessing and refused. The guarantee did not ruin the "partners", demanding fines in the amount of about one and a half billion euros. Forgiven, out of kindness. From Switzerland they called , the guarantor replied there is. This is in the country, his government with the people can do whatever they want, no one will call. On the contrary, the more they take a break, the better. stupid economy outside. A malicious liberal policy inside, the same outside. Until now, we dance to the tune of the EU, the USA. Even with fines we could not restrain anyone. Soon we will either give Ukraine a gift, or "brotherly" we will knock off the loot. The US is already "asking" Greetings from Ulyukaev and Nabiullina. Yes, and in Rusnano, 42 billion rubles were pledged to Chubais. For a long time, the comrade did not ask. Well, the people will pay, like truckers now to Rotenberg, they will pay the guarantor friend. Google.
    1. question
      question 14 November 2015 12: 46 New
      0
      They are going to hang Ukraine on us in general! And then too much money has started up in Russia.
    2. Ros64
      Ros64 14 November 2015 14: 29 New
      0
      100%, nothing to add!
  26. sabakina
    sabakina 14 November 2015 12: 03 New
    +4
    Quote: vorobey
    EU in 70 years ... author two points for homework ... Half of the EU was then part of CMEA

    and in general status, status ... without a quo, this status is nothing ... but we have a quo .. as shown recently .. so Europeans have something to think about ...

    In the 70s there was no EU!
    The status quo .... Only one association is ...
    1. your1970
      your1970 14 November 2015 12: 32 New
      0
      sabakina love
      The EU was in the 70, and there was an ecu, and there was much more ...
      But the clip is wrong - it's not about our army song
      (and the song is certainly cool)

      Holidays in another country
      Uncle Sam did everything he could
      Now you're in the army
      Yes, now you are in the army.

      Now you understand what you promised
      legislators -
      Do nothing and lay in bed
      Now you're in the army
      Yes, now you are in the army.

      You became a hero in the area
      Nobody knows that you left for good
      Now you're in the army
      Yes, now you are in the army.

      Smiles on your faces while you gonna
      But as soon as you are there, nobody cares
      Now you're in the army
      Yes, you are now in the army.

      Hand grenades flying overhead
      Missiles flying overhead
      If you want to survive, get out of bed
      Now you're in the army
      Yes, now you are in the army.

      Shots rip through the night darkness
      The sergeant shouts: “Get up and fight”
      Now you're in the army
      Yes, now you are in the army.

      You are ordered to shoot right at
      target.
      Your trigger finger
      But it seems wrong
      Now you're in the army
      Yes, now you're in the army
      Now you're in the army
      Yes, now you are in the army.

      The night comes down and cannot be made out
      Is it an illusion or reality
      Now you're in the army
      Yes, now you're in the army
      Now you're in the army
      Yes, now you are in the army.
      Yes, now you are in the army.
  27. Rom14
    Rom14 14 November 2015 12: 20 New
    +3
    .... we are Europe and we are always right, you are Russia and you are always guilty and will be making excuses ... Indeed, our politicians are constantly making excuses to the Westerners, the military in Syria report where they went, now the athletes are also to blame, make excuses .. And what the more WE will make excuses, the more US will bite., and our media will contribute to this to the fullest - someone farted somewhere, such a stench is carried around the world, and farted glad, honor and respect from the tribe. THE GREAT COUNTRY DOESN'T LEAD MYSELF AS A BAG TO THE CORNER .., but where to go if everything is loot in the west.
    1. Ros64
      Ros64 14 November 2015 14: 34 New
      0
      Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye!
  28. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 14 November 2015 12: 21 New
    +7
    Horses mixed up in a heap, people .... An article about everything and nothing. The author knows the geopolitics of the 70s very superficially and absolutely does not understand the topic of a balanced fleet. Sorry, but at the moment it’s not able to effectively cover the operation of airborne assault landing. The last new buildings (BOD, destroyers) arrived at the Pacific Fleet in the very beginning of the 90s, by the end of the same 90s, most of the ships of the first and second ranks were decommissioned (including almost new ones). Therefore, the fleet to a greater extent in this the moment we need minesweepers, watchdogs, destroyers, anti-submarine ships. And only after bringing the Pacific Fleet to the level of neighboring Japan, we can start talking about the construction of the BDK. As for the latest Western shipbuilding technologies, the stern parts were built in Russia.
    1. Olezhek
      14 November 2015 13: 18 New
      +1
      Sorry, but at the moment it is not possible to effectively cover the landing operation of the Pacific Fleet
      And just moving the Pacific Fleet to the level of neighboring Japan


      Where do you have to start "in the metal" right?

      Or toko to sit with papers in staffs rustle?

      Mistrali is bad - but better than nothing.
    2. Rom14
      Rom14 14 November 2015 15: 35 New
      +2
      He served as an emergency service on the Northern Fleet and is 100% sure, the more submarines Russia has located along the known perimeter, the greater the respect of all kinds of "partners" ...
    3. The comment was deleted.
  29. question
    question 14 November 2015 12: 41 New
    0
    That's right, the law of the jungle! And we forgive them all. Catherine must be recalled more often, more often. And sneezing sometimes.
  30. Han Solo
    Han Solo 14 November 2015 12: 42 New
    0
    Thanks to the author for the article. Enlightened.
  31. water
    water 14 November 2015 12: 43 New
    +6
    As far as I understand, the main idea of ​​this talkative article can be raised like this - Well, why did the West keep its word in front of the commies from the USSR, and it sends us cunningly like us !? And from that he sends that we have thieving traders in charge of the affairs of the State. Only when we finally understand that the public interest is always higher than the private interest, then both the West and America will tighten their tails and begin to utter an ingratiating whimper.
  32. Mikhalych
    Mikhalych 14 November 2015 12: 44 New
    +1
    Yes, the USSR also suffered something similar, but, alas, those heroic times are long gone. You can, of course, build the very shipyards, design the Russian landing ship to our requirements, and build it. And when will the result be? And how much will this result cost?

    When will the simple truth finally reach the responsible persons ?! You need to be able to do EVERYTHING! But you need to buy not 100% of imported products, but no more, let's say 30%. Then we will not depend on "friends", and you can see advanced technologies.
    1. Olezhek
      14 November 2015 13: 19 New
      0
      You need to be able to do EVERYTHING!


      Today, no one knows how.
      Neither the Japanese nor the Chinese nor the Germans
      none
      1. onix757
        onix757 14 November 2015 13: 23 New
        0
        They do not need it. No one will ever impose sanctions against them (for various reasons), but this does not negate the development of their industry and the presence of strengths in the world division of labor.
  33. rudolff
    rudolff 14 November 2015 12: 49 New
    +5
    Respect to Oleg. Great analysis. Back from the investigation to the causes, and from the causes to the prospects. Only two remarks. The first one. Mistrals in their class are far from the worst ships, and certainly not troughs or barges. This is just such a class of ships. And the second one. Putin put an end to the Mistrals when he said that we didn’t need these ships, that we simply decided to help France by loading their shipyards and that no penalties would be imposed. This, to put it mildly, a strange statement and untied the hands of Hollande. Before that, he was really between two fires, was afraid to make a decision and simply pulled the rubber.
  34. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 14 November 2015 12: 51 New
    0
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Over the past 22 years, Russia has changed a lot - this is a fact

    Russia has always been by itself and they are afraid of it! And they’re doing it right, we are not conquerors, in essence .... But we are punishing hard! And you gentlemen understand this very well ....

    There is no question of respect at all. Each of them is afraid of all the others, but to a different degree. And at the same time they hate and despise everyone. The indicator is the Mistrals and their reaction to Charlie's taunts. As if nothing had happened. Elementary feelings and rules are absent. Do not expect from them neither respect nor commitment. Only the worst.
  35. bobba94
    bobba94 14 November 2015 12: 51 New
    +2
    The author somehow blurred his thoughts on the tree. The first one. In our troubled and volatile, read corrupt world, weapons should only be domestic. The second one. The contract was a purely political action. The contract on the Mistral brought a split and confusion into a close-knit chorus of Western politicians, the military, the media, together accusing Russia of aggression. Mistradi left, and figs with them, Mistral did their job.
  36. The comment was deleted.
  37. kriten
    kriten 14 November 2015 12: 56 New
    +2
    Today, Europe is dominated by leaders who were picked up by the United States and imposed on the European elites and peoples. People incapable of analysis, but only fulfilling the commands of the US (including the "strongest" leaders - Merkel and Oland), in the countries of the new democracies are already being made frank, like the President of Lithuania, a former currency prostitute with a corresponding intellect. They quickly lead Europe to the desired result for the United States - the disintegration and gradual destruction of the economy, freeing up the market for the United States. But the process proceeded quickly, people were not able to completely deprive them of their reason, so that they would take it as a blessing. A threat to the process was imposed - in many countries leaders began to appear worried about their country, not the United States. If these leaders come to power - together with Russia will already be a formidable force, and they will turn to Russia immediately - this is beneficial for the country. And Merkel and Oland today consider any issue from the point of view of protecting the interests of the United States. The intimidation tool is now coming into play. A few days will pass and the United States (and the satellites, naturally) will scream that if we do not further support the moderate ISIS, we will die every day, which means that the main enemy is not an Islamic terrorist, but Russia, which is bombing them and why they are killing Europeans.
    1. Rom14
      Rom14 14 November 2015 15: 59 New
      0
      They are already yapping that WE have made a beehive ...
    2. Rom14
      Rom14 14 November 2015 15: 59 New
      0
      They are already yapping that WE have made a beehive ...
  38. ImPerts
    ImPerts 14 November 2015 12: 58 New
    0
    Quote: Dimon19661
    With regard to the latest Western shipbuilding technologies, the aft parts were built in Russia.

    Quite right, within the framework of a contract and technology transfer, under the supervision of French specialists.
    Large-block construction allows you to speed up the construction of ships, from container ships to aircraft carriers.
  39. pia
    pia 14 November 2015 13: 00 New
    -1
    I agree with the author. Summing up the "total", who is the winner? We have not lost anything, even gained. "Mistrals" are "sharpened" for Russia, the buyer of these helicopter carriers (I don’t want to say "troughs", nevertheless ships) will buy our helicopters. France has lost a lot more, only the concept of "reliable partner" is worth a lot. And Russia has risen from its knees. And who from the EU will tell us what? Sprotlandia? Frogs? Remind them of the Russian Cossacks on the Champs Elysees? Russia kneels down just to kiss the flag or lace up the ankle boots. The motto of the Military "Uncle Vasya" is "Nobody but us" (and it is necessary) to transfer to the whole of Russia.
  40. Alfizik
    Alfizik 14 November 2015 13: 09 New
    +1
    "" The problem is precisely this - in our low status, from the point of view of the European elites. "

    No, the problem is not our status! The problem lies in our future. The EU and the US are scared of our future, scared of our morality. And they hit first of all on "morality" - on our successes. For our future successes. So the "doping case" came in time. The West trembles with fear. And "bends fingers". But oppression, "breaking off" them. I feel sorry for them - the rainbow-wicked losers. Losers of their future.
  41. Strashila
    Strashila 14 November 2015 13: 11 New
    +4
    "As everyone remembers, the Mistrals were planned for the Pacific Ocean, namely for Japan." ... to plan a ship that is not designed for low temperatures to apply in Russia the initial stupidity or betrayal.
    Plan to use against Japan ??? ... everything is squared, saying Japan means the United States with its bases there ... and this is an unprotected ship ... with drop dead dimensions.
    Get a NATO-style ACS ... somebody tried to wrap a bolt with an inch thread in a hole with a metric ... this is an attempt to live not implantable in our control system. But our craftsmen would have come up with something that would have screwed up the entire fleet by opening the doors for our opponents to intervene ... I just don’t even mention the bookmarks.
    Dependence on suppliers of consumables and spare parts ... this is especially significant today.
    1. ImPerts
      ImPerts 14 November 2015 13: 40 New
      +1
      Quote: Strashila
      plan a ship not designed for low temperatures; apply in Russia primordial stupidity or betrayal

      They were built with this in mind, i.e. with gain.
      Quote: Strashila
      plan a ship not designed for low temperatures; apply in Russia primordial stupidity or betrayal

      Everyone uses Windows, chromos, android ... Nothing, they sharpened a bolt.
      Or do you seriously think that technology transfer involves the sale of a finished product?
      ZY Microsoft, at the request of the FSB, disclosed the software product code, do you think the French have handed over to the Ministry of Defense a closed box with Zenit-9, provided they do not open it in an honest kid? So enjoy?
      З.З.Ы. There is still a lot we don't know. For example, who is this impudent man who managed to knock hard disks from the ship's control systems from the "Vladivostok"? The police have not yet been read in front of the French taxpayers ...
      1. Strashila
        Strashila 14 November 2015 16: 56 New
        +2
        “They were built with this in mind, that is, with amplification.” ... I doubt very much, for this it would have been necessary to design the ship from scratch, just like that and not otherwise.
        The question is not only in amplification, but also in the heating of all rooms and ventilation in general, this is a completely separate project ... -30 and this is not the lower limit, but you are not Mediterranean +7.
        And the behavior of materials, and therefore the whole body, is designed for such an operation ... and these are completely different steel grades and everything else.
        Actually, it was tested for suitability for use by our specialized institutes or not, a model was made and it was tested ... no one reported this.
  42. Dyusseldorf
    Dyusseldorf 14 November 2015 13: 16 New
    0
    "EUROCOLHOZ" - pleased. And so, chewing on banal truths, which in geyrope all who are not completely stupid people understand perfectly well.
  43. Denis DV
    Denis DV 14 November 2015 13: 24 New
    -3
    In the furnace, you lose something, you find something. We build on our own and ourselves drinks
  44. Cord
    Cord 14 November 2015 13: 25 New
    0
    In short, Westerners are scammers and liars. It’s a pity they don’t talk about it in their eyes when they meet. And how interesting it would be, “Hello Mr. Throwing” or “Hello Mr. Liar" and see how they will smile and shake hands after that ...
  45. LEX SU
    LEX SU 14 November 2015 13: 32 New
    +4
    article is good. I really liked. only the author greased the ending IMHO ...
    And I read it with great pleasure. For a long time, so clearly and openly reborn policy of the "West" was not disclosed
    1. Olezhek
      14 November 2015 13: 42 New
      +1
      only the ending author smeared


      We will grow and improve ourselves ... yes
  46. Yura
    Yura 14 November 2015 13: 37 New
    +6
    The article is one of the best that I read on this topic. The well-known to all is consistently stated, and the arguments given to me do not cause objections. Let me give you an example from the life of our village: we had an entrepreneur who was not even an average businessman, he simply did what was available in our places, that is, he had a couple of construction crews, received orders for building houses and received orders, built. Things went smoothly. So in winter, while there are a few orders and the price of building materials, most often at discounts, he made stocks and stored in his territory. When buying a timber, he stored it on frozen ground, putting a couple of lags, the stacks turned out to be high, but there is one thing in it, in the spring this pile becomes live because of the soil that has melted and is not stable. What happened next could happen and could carry it, he walked past his pile talking on the phone, and the pile slipped on him, he had no chance. So Europe, it did not and could not have, a solid foundation at the time of the formation of the European Union, in order to raise that burden of responsibility that they arrogantly took upon themselves. Or an simpler example: they put a light bulb in their mouth, but in order for them not to suffocate, they need a doctor or someone to give them a jaw.
  47. asiat_61
    asiat_61 14 November 2015 13: 51 New
    +1
    Europe is a card cheater with whom we sat down to play, but this should never be done. And now they are changing the rules during the game. It looks like the game will end with a chessboard on the head of Europe.
    1. deminbv
      deminbv 14 November 2015 15: 58 New
      +2
      If gentlemen don’t have a game, gentlemen change the rules, and we, since we are not gentlemen in the European view, cannot change the rules, that’s the essence of the article
  48. The comment was deleted.
  49. kabnb
    kabnb 14 November 2015 13: 56 New
    0
    after "neatly pushed aside Lenin" interest disappeared
  50. Gora66
    Gora66 14 November 2015 14: 45 New
    0
    "Yes, it would be nice to build Russian light aircraft carriers," sharpened "for our fleet, for our tasks, at our shipyards. It would be nice, but unrealistic at this stage." ... the author apparently does not know that the aft part for the Mistral "was built in Russia, from which it follows that if there was documentation for the bow, they could completely build such a helicopter carrier ...
    1. deminbv
      deminbv 14 November 2015 15: 56 New
      +2
      You can do it yourself, but then the nose would be at the price of gold
      1. Indifferent
        Indifferent 16 November 2015 18: 10 New
        0
        And what is so valuable in the nose of the Mistral that it was at the price of gold. This is not a Raptor.