Military Review

Russian Su-35 vs. Chinese J-11: Who Will Win?

59
Sukhoi Su-27 aircraft was originally created in the Soviet Union to fight for air superiority with the American F-15 Eagle. But gradually its design was developed and improved, going far beyond the framework of ideas that aircraft designers had. Su-27 variants are created not only in Russia, they are quite successfully copied by China.


Russian Su-35 vs. Chinese J-11: Who Will Win?Russia produces a variety of modifications of the Sukhoi aircraft - from the rather simple Su-30М2 model to the newest Su-35С. But China also makes many copies of these machines. He continues his efforts to create more modern and sophisticated versions of the basic Soviet design. Most of them are unlicensed copies, which Beijing reproduced according to the original Russian models, and then modified it. It is likely that Chinese and Russian samples of Sukhoi aircraft in the coming years will fight in the sales market. It is easy to imagine such a scenario in which the Su-35 confronts J-11D head-on in future export battles.

But while the "drying" of Russian production have the technical advantages over Chinese copies. Su-35S - is the most modern version of the fighter built at the moment. It has high-end on-board electronics, an improved airframe and new engines with three-dimensional thrust vector control. This is a very effective combat vehicle, and if it is adopted in large numbers, it will create a powerful threat to the Western Air Force. Other Su variants, such as the Su-30CM and Su-34, are also very efficient and combat-capable aircraft.

But the Chinese are not far behind and even catch up. They went further than reverse engineering and began to create their own options. One senior American representative aviation The industry told me that the "aerospace renaissance" is beginning in China. The main problem of the Chinese is that they are far behind in the design and manufacture of engines. In the laboratory, engineers can create a workable engine, but they are not yet able to establish reliable mass production. This is their main vulnerability.

China is probably catching up with the rest of the country in the field of avionics and detection equipment, but today it is not clear how effective their systems are. Obviously, the Chinese are developing passive and active antenna arrays with electronic scanning, but we cannot say how perfect they are. In the same way, the Chinese are creating their own electronic countermeasures, infrared search and tracking systems, and electro-optical aiming systems. But although brochures and catalogs are quite impressive, there is very little information about how these systems actually work. Considering the fact that the Chinese are still relatively new to the creation of domestic combat aircraft and their components, it is likely that the original versions of Russian-made dryers still outnumber Chinese copies.

Nevertheless, the Chinese aviation industry produces an impressive selection of clones of Su-brand aircraft. In addition to the original J-11, J-11A and licensed J-11B, China is working on modern options, including J-11BS, J-11D and the J-16 strike fighter. The Chinese also designed the J-15 carrier-based fighter based on the Su-33 prototype. The most effective Chinese copies of the dryers are J-15, J-11D and J-16. The J-11D is in many ways the Chinese equivalent of the Su-35, although inferior to it in maneuverability, on-board electronics, and the propulsion system. But, perhaps, it is cheaper and may turn out to be more attractive as an export product, if the Chinese manage to create operational engines. But this is still far away.

Over time, China will be able to compete in the military aviation industry with Russia, and someday even surpass it. The Chinese have a lot of money, and they are willing to spend it on the development of their military potential. They also readily steal technologies they don’t have yet, which helps save development time and money. Moreover, now, having more or less robbed Russia in terms of useful technological innovations, Beijing is beginning to make raids on the American military aerospace industry, trying to get its technologies and production secrets.

But China is clearly hampered by a lack of its own innovations, as well as a terribly poor quality control. This is one of the main reasons why Beijing is still not able to create a workable jet engine. Until he improves their design and production, his aerospace industry will not be able to attract customers regardless of Russia.
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  1. S-cream
    S-cream 15 November 2015 00: 33 New
    17
    Another "expert opinion" from Dave Majumdar is such an expert.
    1. oldseaman1957
      oldseaman1957 15 November 2015 06: 23 New
      15
      Quote: S-cream
      Another "expert opinion" from Dave Majumdar is such an expert.

      - In one thing, he is right: while the Chinese are strong only in copying. But ... there is a base and a lot of money. They can break through.
      PS If their equipment becomes at least comparable to ours, then with their number it will be very alarming for Russia.
      1. Kostyar
        Kostyar 15 November 2015 11: 35 New
        +3
        The expert sits on the expert, and the expert is driven ....
    2. Malkor
      Malkor 15 November 2015 10: 35 New
      +1
      Aircraft brand Su. Su-2 is also a brand of Su. Even the Su-27 - T-10 platform was too lazy to learn. Last time, the author of the Su-27 was confused with the Su-35.
      The excrement of the author is not interesting.
      1. Very old
        Very old 15 November 2015 11: 01 New
        0
        And I wonder -
        - scanned SU
        can you copy the pilot? hi
        1. Mujahiddin777
          Mujahiddin777 15 November 2015 12: 18 New
          0
          They will be engaged in theft)))) Theft of intelligence, but I'm afraid their brain will not survive. From one "6 fly fly" it will overheat and burn out)))
    3. War and Peace
      War and Peace 15 November 2015 11: 08 New
      +8
      Russian Su-35 vs. Chinese J-11: Who Will Win?


      hats won, the Chinese bought su35 ...
    4. War and Peace
      War and Peace 15 November 2015 11: 08 New
      0
      Russian Su-35 vs. Chinese J-11: Who Will Win?


      hats won, the Chinese bought su35 ...
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 15 November 2015 13: 57 New
        +4
        No doubt - the Chinese plane is worse, but if there are 10 Chinese on one of ours, then the result of air combat will not be so unambiguous.
        1. Bath
          Bath 16 November 2015 20: 14 New
          +2
          and put a gravitsap on this pepelats? Without a gravitsapa from the garage, neither
        2. gvozdan
          gvozdan 6 February 2016 21: 49 New
          0
          ICBM around the answer
  2. ALEXXX1983
    ALEXXX1983 15 November 2015 00: 36 New
    11
    Quote: S-cream
    "expert opinion" by Dave Majumdar

    agree
    While China does not have its normal engine, it makes no sense to compare yes
    1. Sirocco
      Sirocco 15 November 2015 09: 27 New
      +3
      Quote: ALEXXX1983
      While China does not have its normal engine, it makes no sense to compare

      The most amazing thing is that such a rich country like China does not have an engine, so it’s not just about money, but also about brains.
      As one familiar businessman says, about money.
      Earn this nonsense, the main thing is how to save and increase them.
      Well, at the expense of copying technology, and other things, then you should not overestimate China, everything is as in nature, Chameoeon will never become a branch or a leaf. So with China, with their industriousness and adaptability, they still need something. And this "something" apparently gives the one who is over.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 15 November 2015 13: 06 New
        0
        Quote: Sirocco
        The most amazing thing is that such a rich country like China does not have an engine, so it’s not just about money, but also about brains.

        No engine? And what's that ?
        1. Hammer
          Hammer 15 November 2015 14: 36 New
          +3
          Quote: Odyssey
          No engine? And what's that ?


          What follows from this photo?
          Yes, there are two engines on a plane with Chinese identifying marks, but most likely these are engines of either Russian production or Chinese copies, but which have a resource of a little over 500 flight hours. By modern standards, it’s also not funny ...
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 15 November 2015 16: 13 New
            0
            Quote: Hammer
            What follows from this photo?

            Pictured is a J-11BS with Chinese WS-10A engines. Sirocco- "China has no engines." Accordingly, a direct refutation of this thesis follows from the photo.
            Quote: Hammer
            but which have a resource of just over 500 flying hours

            Once again, the initial thesis "China has no engines," where is there even a word about the resource? As for the resource, can you determine the engine resource from the photo? Well then it's aerobatics smile
            In fact, we do not know their resource, but the fact that Chinese engines are on the serial fighter suggests that the Chinese are satisfied with their resource.
            1. Hammer
              Hammer 15 November 2015 17: 25 New
              +4
              Quote: Odyssey
              ... Once again, the original thesis "China has no engines" ...


              Dear Odysseus, do not cling to words ... 500 hours of motor resources, this is exactly what you can say - "China has no engines." The point was this. wink
  3. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 15 November 2015 00: 53 New
    15
    S-400 wins. wink
    1. Siberia 9444
      Siberia 9444 15 November 2015 07: 07 New
      +1
      I think an experienced pilot who has more raids is praetics. As an example, the bombers in Syria and those who have never bombed in combat.
    2. mihai_md2003
      mihai_md2003 16 November 2015 00: 10 New
      +1
      Unfortunately, the Chinese will be able to make more aircraft than we missiles to the C400. And it will not matter what kind of resource the engine has, they will be riveted by hundreds or even thousands. And what if 100 aircraft in an engine resource of 500 hours fly and with other equal parameters will not destroy 10 aircraft in battle?
      1. gvozdan
        gvozdan 6 February 2016 22: 01 New
        0
        What are you from China doing some kind of Mordor. Why the hell are these thousands of airplanes ??? And what the hell is this threatening us with? As long as China does not have its missile defense capable of intercepting our promising ICBMs, you can sleep soundly.
  4. Bryanskiy_Volk
    Bryanskiy_Volk 15 November 2015 01: 00 New
    16
    Who will win: Dave Majumdar or Oleg Kaptsov ?? laughing
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 15 November 2015 02: 00 New
      +2
      Quote: Bryanskiy_Volk
      Who will win: Dave Majumdar or Oleg Kaptsov ??

      Both, those more ....... s.
      1. AlNikolaich
        AlNikolaich 15 November 2015 07: 37 New
        +9
        Quote: cherkas.oe
        Quote: Bryanskiy_Volk
        Who will win: Dave Majumdar or Oleg Kaptsov ??

        Both, those more ....... s.

        Well, this is a topic for more extensive research like:
        "" Oleg Kaptsov tore Majumard to shreds ""
        or "Majumarda is a colossus with feet of clay" wink
        1. Throw
          Throw 15 November 2015 10: 23 New
          0
          All of me "who will win whom" and similar articles with "comparisons" remind cartoons of the series "Chrum Chrum Baby" laughing
    2. Grim Reaper
      Grim Reaper 15 November 2015 07: 42 New
      +7
      Do not touch Oleg. ☺ His articles are read with a bang. And the comments to them are worthy of a separate book. ☺
    3. Odysseus
      Odysseus 15 November 2015 16: 16 New
      +3
      Quote: Bryanskiy_Volk
      Who will win: Dave Majumdar or Oleg Kaptsov ??

      There can’t be two opinions - Oleg will tear it like a tusik heating pad wink
      1. Bongo
        Bongo 15 November 2015 16: 18 New
        +5
        Quote: Odyssey
        There can’t be two opinions - Oleg will tear it like a tusik heating pad

        The last time Oleg took up writing about aviation, he himself was torn. lol
        1. Odysseus
          Odysseus 15 November 2015 16: 27 New
          +4
          Quote: Bongo
          The last time Oleg took up writing about aviation, he himself was torn.

          And still, we strongly support our Oleg against the bourgeois Dave fellow
          Moreover, his articles are full of witty ideas which Dave is not observed at.
          1. Bongo
            Bongo 15 November 2015 16: 32 New
            +4
            Quote: Odyssey
            And still, we strongly support our Oleg against the bourgeois Dave

            Certainly yes
            Quote: Odyssey
            Moreover, his articles are full of witty ideas which Dave is not observed at.

            That's for sure, having read the last time in his publication “Su-34 vs F-15E. The Fury of Heaven” about the mass of 1,5 t in the tail of Su-34, I neighing for 15 minutes. laughing
  5. marinier
    marinier 15 November 2015 01: 58 New
    +5
    Hello dear!
    Such a sensation develops about this unfortunate expert, but he is not adequate.
    With minimal performance characteristics, this individual berets
    Obiat is not obiative.
    Priam ho4etsia sent him (not to the forest by 3 letters) but to Siriu.
  6. Shiva83483
    Shiva83483 15 November 2015 02: 30 New
    -7
    Why is there such a weak space program in China? For no sane astronaut will board a rocket bearing the mark "made in China" .... under the threat of death.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 15 November 2015 11: 12 New
      12
      They have been successfully sending people into space since 2003.
      On their rockets.
      Already 10 Chinese astronauts went into space, including
      one woman. They made spacewalks.
      1. AUL
        AUL 15 November 2015 12: 11 New
        +3
        I recall a joke of the 60s.
        The Chinese General Staff is planning an attack on the USSR.
        - Let’s put cavalry on the right flank, infantry on the left, and hit tanks in the center!
        - And how many tanks do we use?
        - Both ...

        Golden was the time then!
      2. Odysseus
        Odysseus 15 November 2015 13: 12 New
        +7
        I will add that last year the Lunokhod was successfully launched, the next one is experiencing a heavy launch vehicle, by 2020 they will have their own orbital station, and then the Moon.
        Indeed, a very weak space program ... laughing
    4. Kos_kalinki9
      Kos_kalinki9 15 November 2015 12: 11 New
      0
      Ask Majumdar, he knows. laughing
    5. Bongo
      Bongo 15 November 2015 13: 20 New
      +7
      Quote: Shiva83483
      Why is there such a weak space program in China?

      Perhaps because you just don’t know anything about her? At present, there are four cosmodromes in the PRC.
      Cosmodromes of the world
      http://topwar.ru/37927-kosmodromy-mira-chast-2-ya.html
  7. Aleksiy
    Aleksiy 15 November 2015 02: 40 New
    +3
    The further, the more there will be such articles, reflections. China is also that partner: put him at the table, so he’s not just eating his feet, but eating everything and isho will require money from the owner, with a smile, of course, as the great Sun Wyn Kui Li bequeathed.
  8. yuriy55
    yuriy55 15 November 2015 04: 11 New
    +5
    If the Russian Su-35 competes with the Chinese J-11, then the F-22 Raptor will remain the winner ...
    or, as S-400 already said ...
  9. staryivoin
    staryivoin 15 November 2015 05: 10 New
    +1
    Expert Majumdar again pushes Russian and Chinese. And how does he know everything ... And why doesn't he compare J-11 with the same F-15. What is afraid of - probably the fact that 2 Chinese J-11 will make useless 1 F-15 ...
  10. CRASH
    CRASH 15 November 2015 05: 21 New
    +1
    Their fifth generation, maybe only try to compete with our 4, without pluses.
  11. Grim Reaper
    Grim Reaper 15 November 2015 07: 39 New
    0
    All of course is very interesting. But who will defeat Superman or Batman? For so many years the question has tormented me ... ☺
    1. Peterhof 73
      Peterhof 73 15 November 2015 16: 51 New
      +1
      Quote: Ecilop
      All of course is very interesting. But who will defeat Superman or Batman? For so many years the question has tormented me ... ☺

      "Captain America" ​​will win if he does not grab Obviousness from "Captain."
  12. hghg
    hghg 15 November 2015 07: 44 New
    +4
    My opinion. Dave Majumar manages to compare planes without using the characteristics
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 16 November 2015 00: 04 New
      +2
      Quote: hghg
      My opinion. Dave Majumar manages to compare planes without using the characteristics

      Most of the audience that reads his masterpieces of analysis are people who almost or completely do not understand anything in weapons and military equipment.
      And about the "Chinese" I will say this: NO GOOD ENGINE, NO GOOD FIGHTER.
  13. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 15 November 2015 08: 35 New
    +6
    I have already said and will repeat again: Dave Majumdar writes for the WESTERN reader in the WESTERN press! There is a completely different mentality !!! His articles are not designed for in-depth analysis of the reader (the local reader has the task of believing what was said, not analyzing it!) Personally, such articles cause me only a smile laughing
    hi
    1. Rader
      Rader 15 November 2015 18: 37 New
      +1
      Andrei, I agree with you, except for a smile ... The first articles of Majumadar were funny, but now this nonsense has become boring. It’s a pity to spend time on an expert. So there is a wish to the moderators: right in the title of the article to indicate that Manmad wrote it ... tfu ... well, you understand, in short lol wassat
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 15 November 2015 20: 48 New
        +1
        But on the other hand, we know the real state of affairs (or at least imply it because of our skeptical thinking) and can adequately evaluate these or other comparisons (although for me personally any comparison should include ALL possible factors, only then it will be relatively objective).
        The comrades of the Western mindset are deprived of this, for if you can still find the media and other points of view on the open spaces and compare, then there you will believe what they say to you from the screen. Moreover, we have totalitarianism, and there is democracy .... The paradox ... request wink
        So reading such articles by such "analysts" and "experts" (I’ll quote it for our understanding - in the West I would write without quotation marks lol ) we know that it is hammered into the head of the population wink
        So sometimes it is necessary to extract the pros from the minuses of such comparisons hi
        Ps. To be honest, I read such comparisons with humor, although over time, probably, they will become boring and nasty wink laughing
        1. Rader
          Rader 15 November 2015 21: 16 New
          +1
          So sometimes it is necessary to extract the pluses hi from the minuses of such comparisons

          This, you deeply dug ... laughing I’m trying to “extract” the pros from the minuses, but it doesn’t always work out ...
          Yes, and laughter prolongs life ... But to compare planes without their LTH (as a friend noted, a little higher) is very ... very western laughing hi
  14. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 15 November 2015 10: 41 New
    0
    So who will win that ???
    1. NIKNN
      NIKNN 15 November 2015 10: 58 New
      +2
      Dimon19661 (1) RU Today, 10:41

      So who will win that ???


      The topic is who is stronger than an elephant or a whale? Affected more than once. The use of any technology cannot be considered in isolation from a bunch of factors, ranging from airfield support, reconnaissance, electronic warfare, and ending with State policy in this region. wink
    2. Grim Reaper
      Grim Reaper 15 November 2015 15: 35 New
      0
      I put 5 chat rooms on supreme! Yyyyy ????
  15. NIKNN
    NIKNN 15 November 2015 10: 53 New
    +5
    I read who the author put the minus, swearing and ....
    Authors should be indicated in the article annotations request
  16. HaKim
    HaKim 15 November 2015 11: 00 New
    0
    Clowning arranged.
  17. yan 2015
    yan 2015 15 November 2015 11: 34 New
    0
    it’s from the series if my grandmother had grandfather causals. she would also be grandfather. here it sometimes seems to me that this Mamujar Dave .. and there is that grandmother of American Indian descent.
  18. Wolverine 1234
    Wolverine 1234 15 November 2015 15: 14 New
    +3
    Oh Lord, how many articles you can already write. How can you compare who will defeat whom, if these planes have never met in battle and I hope that they never meet. They can only be compared by summer characteristics. And to say who seems to be stupid only on this parameter
  19. Diviz
    Diviz 15 November 2015 15: 36 New
    0
    The project that they buy wins. So this project is so complicated in production that no one knows how much. And the main thing is that it is the basis for the co-project. The question is where the Russians have such knowledge. No answer. Everything is classified.
  20. Peterhof 73
    Peterhof 73 15 November 2015 16: 46 New
    0
    That’s why Mujamar writes about airplanes, but let's say not about watches? What is better than the original Rolex or their Chinese replica for 1500 rubles? Ah, Mujamar?
    Some kind of stupidity.
  21. glavnykarapuz
    glavnykarapuz 15 November 2015 20: 11 New
    0
    Regular pearls from the “couch strategist and specialist in everything” Majumdar. wassat
    It’s interesting, but who puts advantages to such an “article”? The same "sofa"? wink
    Yes, on Saturday “kebabs” the reasoning is deeper and more thorough (unless of course you cross the boundaries “do you respect me?”) Compared to the author of this school essay. laughing
  22. Dam
    Dam 15 November 2015 20: 22 New
    0
    I saw the title of the article, immediately guessed the afftor. He was convinced and did not even read. There is only one question: who and why is publishing the articles of this great iksperd! Enough of Madjumar already, it’s even more harmful than Mr. Kaptsov’s literary statements
  23. staviator
    staviator 15 November 2015 21: 05 New
    0
    fellow Long live the videoconferencing! The most cosmic forces in the world! And the rest, as Professor Preobrazhensky said: - "Into her stove!"
  24. aba
    aba 15 November 2015 21: 56 New
    0
    Many here do not know that computers on the so-called “white” and “yellow” assemblies sold in our computer market, but now no one remembers this.
    The same situation is with cars: everyone who wants to open their production in China, the government simply obliges to build a joint production with Chinese companies, so that Western technology goes into production by leaps and bounds, as well as Western specialists. Specialists from Europe, who were sent home at retirement, are attracted to the same auto industry.
    So whether we like it or not, they will succeed.
  25. Balagan
    Balagan 16 November 2015 04: 13 New
    0
    Our tanks also once began with the copying of the French. The only question is how creatively the guys decide to develop their ideas. The fact that the Chinese are stealing is no secret to anyone. So you need to think about how to hide the most delicious from them. Let them invent.
  26. Engineer
    Engineer 16 November 2015 11: 31 New
    0
    Well, nonsense ...
  27. iouris
    iouris 16 November 2015 11: 41 New
    0
    Thus, only representatives of states that are going to buy planes from the Russian Federation or from the PRC can raise the question.
  28. Wolka
    Wolka 16 November 2015 12: 49 New
    0
    Well, yes, such an expert opinion can no longer be expert ...
  29. Horly
    Horly 16 November 2015 22: 30 New
    +1
    The article, of course, is complete bullshit - to compare aircraft virtually without having even more or less real TTX (mainly Chinese, and ours too) is completely absurd. But ... The most unpleasant thing is that the Chinese are investing in research and technology for processing titanium ... In our research institutes! At the same time, in our country a minimum of attention and funds is surprised at this - that’s what works for the Chinese. So we ourselves will create the technological groundwork for the Chinese, and then we will be indignant at why we are so smart and so poor. I know about working with the Chinese from a relative working in Prometheus. Say that research on titanium processing technology is conducted at a minimum and funded at a minimum. But it was precisely we who were pioneers in this and have always been ahead of the rest in titanium processing technologies! But, apparently, it is not interesting to our “deceptive managers” - whether it’s a matter of pumping gas and oil over a hill and having your own profit from it!