Military Review

From the seventh of November to the fourth: how to create a red calendar day

50
The continuity and interconnectedness of the National Unity Day and the Soviet November 7 are understandable. Someone looks at this connection as an attempt to replace - so do the "left". Someone, on the contrary, sees the reconciliation of the “red” and “white” in 4 in November. They say that the war against the Polish interventionists and the "unreal" king was common, therefore, the contradictions were removed - this is the point of view of the conservatives and the “zaputintsev.


But the point is not in contradictions. Anyway, no holidays, these contradictions will not smooth out. They were, are and will be in the next 30 years, while generations are alive, who believe that the development model set by the Soviet Union was fairer and more effective than the modern model. Also in the coming 30 years there will be those who believe that only with the collapse of the USSR they were able to breathe freely.

In our political culture, the image of the Soviet Union will prevail for quite some time. And not because there is a Stalinist, dissident or farmer living inside us, but because it is too large and historical was a project of the USSR. Each era leaves a memory in material culture - from metallurgical plants and the Moscow metro to the Baikonur spacecraft and the VAZ 2109. As long as the material culture of the USSR lives around us, the image of the Soviet Union will be relevant. And any ideology at the level of the masses is always a set of images, and not a harmonious system of theorems and evidence.

The main dissonance between the Day of National Unity holiday and its Soviet forerunner is that the state has not yet succeeded in making 4 November a “red calendar day” as the USSR did in 7 November.

There are practically no correct mass cultural interpretations about the 4 sense of November - movies, animations, commercials, posters and computer games. The film "1612" came out with some kind of mud with unicorns, and nothing else in wide release and did not come out in fact.

This is more than strange: Smoot, which, in theory, should tell the holiday of November 4, did not become a source of content for state propaganda and agitation.

But the historical material of the Troubles of the XVII century gives a lot of instructive material.

How the boyars became oligarchy. As the elite split, powerful families supported the Polish intervention. How the Romanov family was balanced between the camps and then received the crown. As a folk hero, Pozharsky was lost in palace intrigues. As a trade oligarchy (that is, the boyars and courtiers) speculated during the famine.

The fact that the militia, which Minin organized and commanded by Pozharsky, is a popular phenomenon — peasant, handicraft and unemployed. That is proletarian. The Minin-Pozharsky militia looked more like the Red Army than the contract-draft army of the Russian Federation or the estate-recruit army of the Russian Empire, as Comrade Semin rightly says.

There may be a lot of interesting things in the November 4 celebration. But this, unfortunately, is not in state propaganda and agitation. Therefore, it is impossible to make November 4 a “red day”. Today the form in the form of balls, flags and solemn public relations of the administration prevails. A must be the primary political content. Then the holiday will turn out.

In order to understand the continuity of 4 and 7 in November, the Day of Popular Unity should become the day when the whole country remembers (watches movies and cartoons, reads in newspapers and on the Internet, passes lessons and listens to lectures) about some important events and heroic people .

This means that the state should explain in an accessible and massive way how the Troubles arise. What is this phenomenon? Why did the Poles manage to end up in Moscow without winning a single battle, and how did the influential Russian clans join the interventionists and swear allegiance to the False King?

In order to understand how this should be done in popular culture, it is worth relying on the political experience of the mythologization of November 7 within the framework of the USSR. At first it was generally a celebration of the beginning of the World Revolution. Then he was transformed on the day of the Great Proletarian Revolution. And only then he became the actual day of the Great October Socialist Revolution - which we remembered.

November 7 for every Soviet citizen was the point of the watershed. Appeared "before the revolution" and "after the revolution." Accordingly, the picture of the world was described in two realities: before and after.

A new political reckoning began. A citizen felt a part of history and was born into a new era.

And for the involvement with the story and need those same films, cartoons and computer games. In addition to the school and university programs.

It is necessary to explain in the language of the broad masses of the people, why, actually, 4 November is the beginning of a new stage in the history of the Moscow kingdom. What if there was no victory over the interventionists, then Russia would become an ordinary colony of Polish colonialists, as South America became a colony of Spanish and Portuguese. Today we can watch it from Moscow to Warsaw from the height of the country from the Baltic to the Pacific Ocean. And at the beginning of the XVII century it was exactly the opposite. The huge densely populated Polish state from the Baltic to the Black Sea is against the Muscovy torn apart by the civil war, where power was shared between a hundred separatist princes and oligarch boyars.

Actually, if it were not for 4 November in the history of Muscovy, it is not clear whether Russia would have appeared later.

And, by the way, it’s not a fact that the uprising of Bogdan Khmelnitsky in Ukraine would have been successful, would remain under the rule of puppet Polish magnates in Moscow. It is not clear what would have happened to the eastern regions of Muscovy at that time — most likely, numerous Turkic and Finno-Ugric peoples had settled away from Moscow, and then they were firmly colonized, as happened with the natives of India, the Americas, Australia and Oceania.

This is what the November 4 holiday should be about. About the real problems and challenges of Russia through the prism of history. Only then is there a chance that our citizens will develop a clear understanding of the Troubles as a political process that must be cauterized at any cost. Just as it should be explained that the collapse of the Soviet Union is also a consequence of the Troubles. Only the Troubles in the political conditions of the late twentieth century. Actually, this will finally be able to marginalize the political battles between the “red” and “white” ones.
Author:
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http://www.odnako.org/blogs/ot-sedmogo-noyabrya-k-chetvyortomu-kak-sozdat-krasniy-den-kalendarya/
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  1. Decathlon
    Decathlon 10 November 2015 13: 08 New
    28
    Может быть, потом, когда не станет нас, рождённых в 40-е, 50-е, 60-е , 4 ноября и станет полноценным праздником. Но, на мой взгляд, не будет наверное того энтузиазма, радости и чувства единения, как при слове " 7 ноября". Каждой эпохе - свои праздники и свои ценности,простите за бурчание стариковское и сентиментальность! crying hi
    1. Tor5
      Tor5 10 November 2015 13: 22 New
      +9
      Полностью согласен, как рожденный в конце сороковых, эту "переделку" не воспринимаю и не восприму.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 10 November 2015 13: 27 New
        +6
        Quote: Tor5
        как рожденный в конце сороковых, эту "переделку" не воспринимаю и не восприму.

        In principle, it is impossible to bring out at least any important date and instantly make it a national holiday. The same New Year, how many took root?
    2. oldseaman1957
      oldseaman1957 10 November 2015 13: 40 New
      -1
      Quote: Decathlon
      Но, на мой взгляд, не будет наверное того энтузиазма, радости и чувства единения, как при слове " 7 ноября".

      And how many philologists we have - political scientists (?!). So let the guys don’t eat bread in vain, they play a joke on TV between the friends. Let them justify the importance for Russia of the 4th of November!
      1. Burmistr
        Burmistr 10 November 2015 17: 03 New
        -7
        Quote: Decathlon
        Но, на мой взгляд, не будет наверное того энтузиазма, радости и чувства единения, как при слове " 7 ноября".


        It’s time to know that all this time the country celebrated the birthday of Leibo Davidovich Bronstein (Leon Trotsky). Now think carefully whether we need this holiday.
        1. ALABAY45
          ALABAY45 10 November 2015 18: 45 New
          +2
          And you, try to explain to the country that it has celebrated the wrong holiday and continues to celebrate! The country will answer you ... And, regarding the Holiday .. Maybe you don’t need it, but don’t touch the old people and generalize! hi
    3. varov14
      varov14 11 November 2015 04: 25 New
      0
      Если так интерпретировать статью, то получается нынешние "олигархи" не далеко ушли от смуты. Кто во власти посмеет пойти на такое, та-же боярская дума.
    4. Stelth1985
      Stelth1985 11 November 2015 05: 20 New
      0
      I completely agree with you. While the Soviet generations are alive, it is simply not possible to break what was laid in us!
  2. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 10 November 2015 13: 09 New
    +3
    In the light of how world events are developing now, in a hundred years, if we mark all the significant dates, we can generally go to 365 days off a year.
  3. Altona
    Altona 10 November 2015 13: 12 New
    +8
    Собственно да, мог бы стать, но мало информации об этом дне и той эпохе...В двух словах, одна часть народа русского не согласилась с начальством Москвы и объявила, что "царь ненастоящий"(почему не согласилась? налоги были большими, неурожай-засуха, монету сделали медной, а подать требовали серебром)...Так как совладать с "мос.калями" никакой возможности не имелось, призвали на помощь "войско польское", а Польша в ту пору была мощной военной державой. Дальше эпопея с самозванцами и народным ополчением. В общем, один в один, майданная ситуация...И вот так мы из этой цветной революции выкрутились, и стали мощной державой, прицепили к царству нашему зауральские земли до Тихого океана...Праздник как бы об этом...Но дата настолько дальняя, что ассоциировать себя с ней трудно и получается как ни крути празднование 403-летие дома Романовых...А 7 ноября как бы наоборот...Вот такая фигня, господа-товарищи...
    1. Altona
      Altona 10 November 2015 13: 26 New
      0
      Quote: Altona
      ..Here is such garbage, gentlemen, comrades ...

      --------------------
      Well, a little digression into history, and two traitor pshek galloped off with minuses ... laughing lol good
    2. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 10 November 2015 13: 53 New
      +7
      Altona
      Actually, yes, it could have become, but there is little information about this day and that era ..

      I completely agree with the author of the article! What is Kremlin officialdom presenting to us through the media - A CALL FOR REconciliation ... TO CELEBRATE NOVEMBER 4 ... TO CELEBRATE THE EXCLUSION OF POLES ...
      And why and why it was required to collect more than 50 militias to expel the Poles, who were fewer than 000 people ??? .. SILENT !!!!
      Ведь по - существу, надо РАССКАЗЫВАТЬ О ТОМ, ЧТО ВОЙСКО ОПОЛЧЕНЦЕВ МИНИНА И ПОЖАРСКОГО ПОШЛО ПРОТИВ НАЕМНИКОВ В ЛИЦЕ ПРОДАВШИХСЯ ПОЛЯКАМ БОЯР. Что более 3-х месяцев было так называемое "стояние" в ТУШИНО ополченцев и наемников бояр. ЭТИХ БОЯР СЕЙЧАС МОЖНО СМЕЛО НАЗВАТЬ -- "ПЯТОЙ КОЛОННОЙ".
      А ведь это так похоже на нынешнее положение дел в России -- ВЕДЬ РОССИЯ УЖЕ НЕ ПРИНАДЛЕЖИТ РОССИЯНАМ: С КОНЦА ИЮНЯ 2011 г. БОЛЕЕ 50% ПРОИЗВОДСТВЕННЫХ МОЩНОСТЕЙ В СТРАНЕ ПРИНАДЛЕЖИТ ИНОСТРАННОМУ КАПИТАЛУ! На защите их интересов... НУ... ПРОСТО ОЧЕНЬ И ОЧЕНЬ МНОГО РОССИЙСКИХ (в т.ч. и должностных лиц) ПРЕДСТАВИТЕЛЕЙ... "НЫНЕШНЕЙ ПЯТОЙ КОЛОННЫ"!
      What is not your situation in society back in 1612?
      Поэтому нас и призывают праздновать 4-е ноября... не вразумительно бормоча, что это дата изгнания поляков (!!!)... а не ПОБЕДА НАД "ПЯТОЙ КОЛОННОЙ"! Что и дало толчок к развитию России как государства на новом, более высоком уровне!
      1. Altona
        Altona 10 November 2015 13: 56 New
        +2
        Quote: KazaK Bo
        А ведь это так похоже на нынешнее положение дел в России -- ВЕДЬ РОССИЯ УЖЕ НЕ ПРИНАДЛЕЖИТ РОССИЯНАМ: С КОНЦА ИЮНЯ 2011 г. БОЛЕЕ 50% ПРОИЗВОДСТВЕННЫХ МОЩНОСТЕЙ В СТРАНЕ ПРИНАДЛЕЖИТ ИНОСТРАННОМУ КАПИТАЛУ! На защите их интересов... НУ... ПРОСТО ОЧЕНЬ И ОЧЕНЬ МНОГО РОССИЙСКИХ (в т.ч. и должностных лиц) ПРЕДСТАВИТЕЛЕЙ... "НЫНЕШНЕЙ ПЯТОЙ КОЛОННЫ"!
        What is not your situation in society back in 1612?

        -----------------------
        А я о чем написал? Я в двух словах написал "майданная ситуация", с привлечением иностранного контингента...Или вам в одном посте надо исторический труд написать?

        А ведь это так похоже на нынешнее положение дел в России -- ВЕДЬ РОССИЯ УЖЕ НЕ ПРИНАДЛЕЖИТ РОССИЯНАМ: С КОНЦА ИЮНЯ 2011 г. БОЛЕЕ 50% ПРОИЗВОДСТВЕННЫХ МОЩНОСТЕЙ В СТРАНЕ ПРИНАДЛЕЖИТ ИНОСТРАННОМУ КАПИТАЛУ! На защите их интересов... НУ... ПРОСТО ОЧЕНЬ И ОЧЕНЬ МНОГО РОССИЙСКИХ (в т.ч. и должностных лиц) ПРЕДСТАВИТЕЛЕЙ... "НЫНЕШНЕЙ ПЯТОЙ КОЛОННЫ"!
        -----------------------
        So this is a big hello from the 90s, when we could not pay the debts of something there. Remember the $ 500 billion public debt? So the IMF began to set conditions for us, and one of the conditions was large-scale privatization with the participation of foreign capital, they say, give it in kind, since you can’t give it money.

        P.S. Насчёт "изгнания поляков", они бы через неделю и так сдохли, свои сапоги уже были доедены ими...Так что не знаю я, чем эта дата примечательна. Была же гражданская война по сути. Ежли потом Земский Собор собрали и нового царя помазали...А ополчение? Чё ополчение? Войну же выиграли, зачем оно нужно правящему классу?
        1. dmb
          dmb 10 November 2015 14: 47 New
          +2
          Ну ни "пшек" я и минуса Вам не ставил, а согласиться применением "майданов" и "пятых колонн" к описанию событий четырехсотлетней давности не могу. Ныне эти понятия лепят затычкой во все дырки. В целом конечно получается смешно, но жертвы ЕГЭ верят что это истине соответствует. Что же касается даты- 4 ноября, так она, как государственный праздник, связанный со изгнанием поляков даже при царях-батюшках отродясь не праздновалась, с какого будуна его надо праздновать в этом яти его "социальном государстве с демократической формой правления", а потому изживет себя еще до возврата к социалистическому обществу.
      2. Stelth1985
        Stelth1985 11 November 2015 05: 23 New
        0
        I am glad that there are people who understand everything in the same way as I do. Think soberly and do not bribe.
    3. plebs
      plebs 10 November 2015 15: 53 New
      +1
      Так как совладать с "мос.калями" никакой возможности не имелось, призвали на помощь "войско польское"
      Чего с "мос.калями" справляться? Вы суть праздника не поняли, москвичи, после смерти Годунова начали тащить на русский престол всякую шваль. Потом тех кто не угодил свергали и приглашали на престол новых воров. Провинции этот бардак в конце концов надоел. Собрали армию пришли в Москву наваляли всем, в том числе и москвичам. Вобщем навели порядок. Вот такое единение и празднуем теперь!
      1. Stelth1985
        Stelth1985 11 November 2015 05: 26 New
        0
        It was also necessary to do the same in the year 91m. But then the army betrayed its country, as well as the people themselves.

        For the Honor and Glory of the ancestors!
  4. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 10 November 2015 13: 13 New
    +9
    The continuity and interconnectedness of National Unity Day and Soviet November 7 are understandable

    The continuity and interconnectedness of these holidays is only in that they are both celebrated in the first ten days of November. There is nothing in common in them, neither in essence nor in meaning. This is the same as comparing March 8 and May 1. request
  5. SAM 5
    SAM 5 10 November 2015 13: 15 New
    0
    Respect to the author, I rightly noticed.
  6. vicdoc63
    vicdoc63 10 November 2015 13: 19 New
    -4
    I would like to get an answer to a question that has been haunting me lately. But if we imagine there is no USSR, that is, there was no Revolution and the Romanovs remained in power. Would there be a Great Patriotic War? After all, as you know, our kings were in kinship with blood.
    1. Altona
      Altona 10 November 2015 13: 23 New
      14
      Quote: vicdoc63
      I would like to get an answer to a question that has been haunting me lately. But if we imagine there is no USSR, that is, there was no Revolution and the Romanovs remained in power. Would there be a Great Patriotic War? After all, as you know, our kings were in kinship with blood.

      ---------------
      So in World War I, Kaiser Wilhelm was a cousin of Nikolai, a cousin, and nothing, they were cut in full on the whole front ... Politics, nothing personal ...
      1. vicdoc63
        vicdoc63 10 November 2015 13: 26 New
        +1
        I remember it. The question is, under what idea, under whose guidance, who would inspire?
        1. vch62388
          vch62388 10 November 2015 13: 44 New
          +2
          In our understanding, there would be no second world war, if the Kaiser remained in power. This could not be. He lost in the best conditions for him - Russia's way out of the war. The severe crisis and the Nazis' rise to power was almost inevitable. This implies the inevitability of another major war in Europe.
          As an alternative, the Communists came to power in Germany. Again, the inevitability of a clash between the two systems.
          War would have happened anyway. But when and in what scenario ...?
    2. ALEA IACTA EST
      ALEA IACTA EST 10 November 2015 17: 49 New
      +1
      Quote: vicdoc63
      Would there be a Great Patriotic War?

      Only one thing prevented the USSR from crushing Hitler in the 30s: Poland, Romania and Czechoslovakia did not let the Red Army through. If Russia remained within its former borders, then such a problem would not have arisen.
      And Hitler would hardly have come to power: on anti-Semitism alone he would not have gone far ...
    3. Per se.
      Per se. 10 November 2015 19: 47 New
      +3
      Quote: vicdoc63
      . Would there be a Great Patriotic War?
      Как говориться, хороший вопрос, Виктор. Чтобы на него ответить, в первую очередь надо понять главное, схватка за лидерство в мире началась не во Вторую мировую, и, даже, не в Первую, отцы-создатели капитализма, британцы, начали эту схватку намного раньше, где первой и самой грандиозной битвой стала их борьба с Францией, и Наполеоном, пришедшим к власти на волне Великой французской революции. Хитрые и коварные британцы удачно сколотили союз, фактически подставив вместо себя Пруссию, Австрию и Россию, что и вынесли на себе основную тяжесть войны в Европе. Для Франции Россия не виделась врагом, сам Наполеон, после убийства Павла I, считал это кознями Англии, и пытался найти союз с Россией. Вызов, брошенный Наполеоном владычеству Великобритании, был проигран Францией, англосаксы больше всех нагрели руки. Второй вызов англосаксам бросили немцы, их молодой капитализм желал потеснить Англию, но, хитрожопые британцы снова сколотили союз, опять втянув в него Россию, хотя мы с немцами не имели особых противоречий и, даже, могли быть союзниками. Итог, рухнули четыре основных империи, Российская, Германская, Австро-Венгерская и Османская. Кто нагрел снова руки, устранив конкурентов? Правильно, Великобритания. Начинает складываться полюс силы, капитализм становиться транснациональным, и лидерство в нём у англосаксов. Но, вышла ошибочка, большевики не развалили Россию, которую Англия всегда в гробу хотела видеть, а создали противовес, новый полюс силы, социализм, не подконтрольный мировому капиталу, начали создавать социалистическую сверхдержаву. Здесь и вспомнили про униженную и оскорблённую Версалем Германию, вскормили Гитлера, в первую очередь, против коммунистов, против СССР. Не будь коммунистов и Советского Союза, России готовили незавидную участь, Ельцин не Гитлер, но кто вреда больше нам нанёс ещё вопрос. Вот и думайте, что было бы, если Россия Британии нужна была если не мёртвой, то уж точно не процветающей, и, однозначно, не сверхдержавой, которой она в полюсе силы капитализма лидером по определению стать не могла. Это и сейчас актуально, если наши либералы говорят о "многополярном" мире, находясь в капитализме и играя по чужим правилам.
  7. marinier
    marinier 10 November 2015 13: 19 New
    +6
    Yeah!
    with all due respect to the Reds and the Whites.
    Reconcile Messrs. At the end!
    Knots of Vi Natsia Suvorov, Kutuzov, and many others you don’t understand, 4
    exaggerated by the fierce confrontation, you pour water into the mill of your
    and secret enemies !!!
    Mr. yes the knots of history didn’t find you ???
    Recognize the comrades Reds and gentlemen Bely, 4th sei4as without exaggeration 4 RUSSIA
    there is in a dense ring miagko speaking unkind-greening.
    Remember! In unity you are strong! In harmony and full of harmony within society
    You are not overpowered!

    Ms. with the best appeal to RUSSIA, YOUR GOOD WAN!

    P.S. Divide and Conquer. This principle in politics has not yet been exchanged !!!
  8. bydanoff.val
    bydanoff.val 10 November 2015 13: 20 New
    -7
    In a thieves' and corrupt state afflicted with an epidemic of profit. Holidays, especially Unity, are not possible at all, if not PR
    1. marinier
      marinier 10 November 2015 14: 18 New
      +3
      Vy est provokator, i ne-dobrozilatel RSSKOGO Naroda.
      Bolee togo smeu zametit vAM vY EST VRAG zestokij ras4etlivyj
      ina4e kak rascenit vASH avatar, familia 4elovek bez-uslovno
      sloznoj sudby, i pavshego zertvoj obstiatelstv.
      Obi4no ia izbegal temy vnutrenij politik ROSSIJSKOJ Federacii, no vY i vAM PODOBNYE provocirovat protivostianie
      i vyzyvat svoim disonansnym zayavlenie vyzyvat provokacii.
      Takih iudushek kak vY ranshe predavat ANAFEMA.
      Po moemu predstavilsa slu4aj vozrodit etot tradicij, v
      otnoshenij k vAM.

      PS S neuvazeniem i prezreniem k vAM i vAM podobnjm.
      4EST! V otli4ie ot vAS imet !!!
  9. Per se.
    Per se. 10 November 2015 13: 26 New
    +8
    Французы себе головы пеплом не посыпают, празднуют Великую французкую революцию, в которую тоже немало дров наломали, и дворян казнили и вообще крови пролили. Не большевики Николая II, заставили от престола отречение сделать, как и остальных Романовых. Не будь Октябрьской революции, то, что у нас случилось после 1991 года, с чубайсами, гайдарами и Ельциным, началось бы уже в 1917, Россию намного раньше бы "отформатировали", положили под Запад, не зря же нам в долг под проценты давали, в Антанту затянули и с немцами стравили. Большевики спасли Россию от развала, сделали её космической и ядерной свердержавой, которой Россия, при царизме и правительствах типа Керенского, никогда бы не стала. Советский Союз свершившийся факт, и мы до сих пор пользуемся советскими достижениями, едем на силе от наследия СССР. Убирать праздник 7 ноября глупо и непорядочно, это всё равно, как сносить советские памятники. Ничего более существенного буржуины пока для России не сделали, а если пользуются результатами достижений Советского Союза, так порядочнее бы было и праздник 7 ноября вернуть
  10. SPLV
    SPLV 10 November 2015 13: 28 New
    +1
    Печаль. При пропаганде повсеместно на международном уровне противодействия переписыванию истории, внутри страны так явно видимы старания именно этого переписывания. "Разруха, она не в клозетах, а в головах!". Очередной опус для внесения сумбура в головы и попытка выдать желаемое за действительное.
  11. DPN
    DPN 10 November 2015 13: 31 New
    +6
    Пока жив хоть один СОВЕТСКИЙ ЧЕЛОВЕК будет жив праздник 7 ноября день ,"висит плакат ДОЛОЙ ГОСПОД,ПОМЕЩИКОВ ДОЛОЙ,так в ОКТЯБРЕ МЕЧТА СБЫЛАСЬ РАБОЧИХ и КРЕСТЬЯН"
    November 4 is a church holiday, they gave a left turn on the left cheek, he was born a slave, a slave and die this is what we came to in 1991.
  12. marxlight
    marxlight 10 November 2015 13: 34 New
    +2
    Thanks to the author! Plus!
    Наконец то, внятно и доходчиво разжеваны все "за" и "против" этого дня. Реально при правильной подаче он может объединить народ и стать праздником с большим смыслом.
    Favorite article, show many!
  13. atamankko
    atamankko 10 November 2015 13: 43 New
    +1
    Only traitors and scum rewrite history for themselves.
  14. roskot
    roskot 10 November 2015 13: 44 New
    +2
    Actually, if it were not for 4 November in the history of Muscovy, it is not clear whether Russia would have appeared later.

    So there were new shamans conjuring a new holiday.
    And how then with Dmitry Donskoy, with Kutuzov, etc. Holidays? Definitely.
    Only do not conjure. The people will figure it out.
  15. Gardamir
    Gardamir 10 November 2015 13: 45 New
    +6
    Remember how the holiday was organized on June 12? On this day, Boris Nikolaevich, beloved by the current government, became president of the RSFSR, however, a year earlier, deputies adopted a declaration on the state sovereignty of the RSFSR. Now we understand that both of these steps were the path to the collapse of the USSR. But the winners made this holiday celebrate as Independence Day. The people did not accept this and the authorities had to consider this day to be the day of Russia. although agree is not a reason for celebration.
    What does this have to do with this topic? The most direct. Power rummaged in calendars for a long time to block November 7th. Found as much as four hundred years ago. But after the prescription of years, the people did not rejoice at such a holiday. For the unity of the oligarchs and people living with hopes of justice is impossible.
    Then the authorities found an elegant solution, because the Russian from Dagestan and the Russian from Yakutsk are united. But for some reason, the Russian from Pskov wants to be called Russian.
  16. 31rus
    31rus 10 November 2015 13: 48 New
    +4
    уважаемые,да дело не в празднике,а в политике,попытка "забыть",переписать под выгодную интерпретацию историю,вот,что на самом деле происходит,стоит ли после этого удивляться бездействию высших чинов,над "издевательствами"над памятниками в других странах.Вообще то праздники должны объединять людей,а тут все наоборот
  17. DPN
    DPN 10 November 2015 13: 59 New
    +4
    November 4 is a holiday of unity of Serdyukov and Vasilyeva and the like, but not working with the oligarch.
    1. Altona
      Altona 10 November 2015 14: 23 New
      +3
      Quote: DPN
      November 4 is a holiday of unity of Serdyukov and Vasilyeva and the like, but not working with the oligarch.

      -----------------------
      If you wish, this holiday is easy to turn inside out ... It turns out that Tatar Minin gathered the Nizhny Novgorod Mordovians and other Volga peoples and freed the Russians from the Poles ... But now the authorities do not bother with this ... We are the Champions of the World ... This sauce is served ...
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 10 November 2015 15: 34 New
        +5
        Quote: Altona
        Tatar Minin collected Nizhny Novgorod Mordovia

        Severely noticed! And now, after 400 years, they made a holiday and began to widely celebrate! hi
  18. gladysheff2010
    gladysheff2010 10 November 2015 14: 24 New
    +1
    Нет смысла мешать все в общую кучу:существуют(и видимо долго ещё будут существовать)празднующие 7 ноября,однако достаточно есть людей,относящихся с уважением к 4 ноября-и это факт!Не стоит между теми и этими людьми проводить линию водораздела,тем более,что никто не препятствует этим воззрениям.Не лучше ли заниматься более актуальными вещами,чем копаться в собственном грязном белье,обязательно откапывая противоречия-это путь в никуда!Историки не в счет-это их профессия.Предоставьте людям самим определяться со своими убеждениями,но не стоит вести агитацию за "правильный" взгляд на вещи и предметы,ибо человеческое мировоззрение-результат собственного опыта сложенный с воспитанием и образованием,и если на первое повлиять можно лишь опосредованно(пропаганда в т.ч. кино,ТВ и т.д.),то второе должно быть подвержено прямому государственному влиянию(приехал учиться в РФ-учись по нашим пособиям,хочешь европейское образование-езжай в Европу).А на все остальное существует ЗАКОН,вот его и надобно соблюдать! hi
  19. engineer74
    engineer74 10 November 2015 14: 45 New
    0
    ... to the spaceship "Baikonur"...

    I did not read further ... It was not for this author to talk about the USSR ... negative
  20. igordok
    igordok 10 November 2015 14: 51 New
    +2
    I agree with the author. 4 of November was a day off, but not HOLIDAY.
  21. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 November 2015 15: 11 New
    +2
    Look, dear comrades, how little Poland is behaving now! Remember the articles that are written here about Poland and the USSR, about Poland and Russia. Until I read these articles here, I did not think about November 4 in general. Since all the relatives, their acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances, etc. think like most of you. Imagine what would happen if
    Quote: roskot
    Actually, if it were not for 4 November in the history of Muscovy, it is not clear whether Russia would have appeared later.

    So there were new shamans conjuring a new holiday.
    And how then with Dmitry Donskoy, with Kutuzov, etc. Holidays? Definitely.
    Only do not conjure. The people will figure it out.

    Before this Day, I watched a lot of children's stories on the network on this topic. Schools teach that this is a holiday. Why should I separate from the children? I still don’t know when they will be, but many write about their grandchildren. And on this day then you can prepare by November 7th. There were some skeptical friends and family friends and I explained when I congratulated. And on November 7th I congratulated everyone again. I liked the photo on November 7th very much in Donetsk. Like the pictures. We have a lot of books on the art of the USSR, there there are holidays.
  22. Mercury
    Mercury 10 November 2015 15: 34 New
    -7
    They returned the old holiday in 1917. The Communists took off the holiday on November 4 and celebrated their Maidan, and as it was said above, reformatting the Russian world to the Western one. For some reason everyone forgets that communism is not ours and reformatted Russia even then under atheism and German Marxism alien to Russia. people under the USSR cannot be overestimated but who worked for Lenin and Stalin? only a few scumbags of the rest forced people to stupidly be afraid to be against the communists. If they forgot the dissenters they shot and exiled to the camps. And as soon as people were given the opportunity to choose communism fell. Communism now in the DPRK do you want this with us?
    1. Geronimo73
      Geronimo73 10 November 2015 16: 56 New
      +4
      Communism has never existed anywhere - do not smack nonsense.
    2. Geronimo73
      Geronimo73 10 November 2015 16: 56 New
      0
      Communism has never existed anywhere - do not smack nonsense.
  23. Geronimo73
    Geronimo73 10 November 2015 16: 52 New
    +2
    what stupidity? the events of the 17th century before the formation of nation-states were essentially a feudal squabble of a local scale, mixed with religious Catholics and Orthodox, and included in Romanov’s mythology .... November 7 and 4 (if it was November 4 at all) are completely different the scale, nature and consequences of the event and extort one another is stupid and dishonorable!
    it would never occur to anyone in France to replace the day of the capture of the Bastille with the day of the Battle of Poitiers or in the United States to place the Mayflower landing in replacement on July 4. therefore, no red day will ever come out on November 4th.
  24. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 November 2015 17: 22 New
    +1
    Why replace? Let November 4 be a holiday, and November 7 --- a completely different one. It turned out that when I was studying --- they stopped celebrating one holiday and weren’t used to another. Can you celebrate a house? Even in stores there are all sorts of interesting goodies were. For example, tea is very good, long gone at a normal price. I participated.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 10 November 2015 18: 59 New
      0
      When I wrote that I stopped celebrating, I meant that there was a vacuum in the school at all. Like there wasn’t anything at all. And not everyone at home was talking about November 7, because the parents did not want to conflict with the school.
    2. Geronimo73
      Geronimo73 10 November 2015 20: 03 New
      0
      in fact, there is an attempt to substitute. although very clumsy
  25. evgmiz
    evgmiz 10 November 2015 17: 57 New
    0
    Unity with whom? .. I do not mind combining, say, my beggarly pension with incomes, for example, Sechin.
  26. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 10 November 2015 17: 58 New
    0
    In my opinion, it’s better to take it and set it as a holiday on November 5 or 6, otherwise you’ve already got all these disassemblies ...
  27. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 November 2015 18: 51 New
    0
    Relatives say under socialism by November 7 there were food packages and mother, aunts and uncles say that the Bolsheviks came to schools who saw Lenin and Stalin, as well as participants in the Great Patriotic War. At home there was a good table on November 7 and watched clips of revolutionary songs. Good performers.
  28. Vladimir 1964
    Vladimir 1964 10 November 2015 19: 54 New
    0
    As long as the material culture of the USSR lives around us, until then the image of the Soviet Union will be relevant. And any ideology at the level of the masses is always a set of images, and not a harmonious system of theorems and evidence.


    Properly said. Indeed, the state at the present stage with a national ideology does not bother. In 10-15 years, the next generations will grow up and they won’t even know that once there were free kindergartens, a good and free education, affordable children's vacations at sea and much more, and there were no oligarchs and EDRs who had plundered the country. yes
  29. Vladimir 1964
    Vladimir 1964 10 November 2015 20: 05 New
    +2
    The troubles, which, in theory, the holiday on November 4 should tell, did not become a source of content for state propaganda and agitation.
    But the historical material of the Troubles of the XVII century gives a lot of instructive material.
    How the boyars became an oligarchy. As the elite split, powerful families supported the Polish intervention.


    Так по этому этот праздник и будет на современном этапе таким "пустым и не всенародным", ибо если те события "Смуты" народу разъяснить, с целью воспитания граждан и патриотов, то снова появятся новые Минины и Пожарские, которые нынешнюю смуту снесут вместе с влиятельными семьями поддержавшими американскую либеральную интервенцию и разграбившими Родину. yes
  30. beer-youk
    beer-youk 10 November 2015 20: 16 New
    +1
    In my opinion, a nationwide holiday can be born from an event in which people who lived then were able to pass on or witness their holiday to descendants. And to appoint a holiday the day of the event of five centuries ago is a perversion!
  31. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 11 November 2015 12: 18 New
    0
    Posted yesterday:

    REFLECTIONS
    So how old is November coming,
    And I do not know what to say ---
    What a strange holiday
    Will we celebrate again?

    Consent and reconciliation? Or fear of loss and pain of loss?
    Suffering or oblivion?
    What are we celebrating now?

    Betrayal of the top? Their meanness?
    And G.M.S., and E.B.N.?
    Our fear of loss? A sob in the voice?
    What are we celebrating now?

    And the children that were born later
    We will smile and again
    Find out how they studied,
    And we will celebrate the holiday.

    All children become older ---
    Learn the Truth and understand
    The country will rise and rise
    In a worthy life they will find meaning!