Military Review

From the seventh of November to the fourth: how to create a red calendar day

50
The continuity and interconnectedness of the National Unity Day and the Soviet November 7 are understandable. Someone looks at this connection as an attempt to replace - so do the "left". Someone, on the contrary, sees the reconciliation of the “red” and “white” in 4 in November. They say that the war against the Polish interventionists and the "unreal" king was common, therefore, the contradictions were removed - this is the point of view of the conservatives and the “zaputintsev.


But the point is not in contradictions. Anyway, no holidays, these contradictions will not smooth out. They were, are and will be in the next 30 years, while generations are alive, who believe that the development model set by the Soviet Union was fairer and more effective than the modern model. Also in the coming 30 years there will be those who believe that only with the collapse of the USSR they were able to breathe freely.

In our political culture, the image of the Soviet Union will prevail for quite some time. And not because there is a Stalinist, dissident or farmer living inside us, but because it is too large and historical was a project of the USSR. Each era leaves a memory in material culture - from metallurgical plants and the Moscow metro to the Baikonur spacecraft and the VAZ 2109. As long as the material culture of the USSR lives around us, the image of the Soviet Union will be relevant. And any ideology at the level of the masses is always a set of images, and not a harmonious system of theorems and evidence.

The main dissonance between the Day of National Unity holiday and its Soviet forerunner is that the state has not yet succeeded in making 4 November a “red calendar day” as the USSR did in 7 November.

There are practically no correct mass cultural interpretations about the 4 sense of November - movies, animations, commercials, posters and computer games. The film "1612" came out with some kind of mud with unicorns, and nothing else in wide release and did not come out in fact.

This is more than strange: Smoot, which, in theory, should tell the holiday of November 4, did not become a source of content for state propaganda and agitation.

But the historical material of the Troubles of the XVII century gives a lot of instructive material.

How the boyars became oligarchy. As the elite split, powerful families supported the Polish intervention. How the Romanov family was balanced between the camps and then received the crown. As a folk hero, Pozharsky was lost in palace intrigues. As a trade oligarchy (that is, the boyars and courtiers) speculated during the famine.

The fact that the militia, which Minin organized and commanded by Pozharsky, is a popular phenomenon — peasant, handicraft and unemployed. That is proletarian. The Minin-Pozharsky militia looked more like the Red Army than the contract-draft army of the Russian Federation or the estate-recruit army of the Russian Empire, as Comrade Semin rightly says.

There may be a lot of interesting things in the November 4 celebration. But this, unfortunately, is not in state propaganda and agitation. Therefore, it is impossible to make November 4 a “red day”. Today the form in the form of balls, flags and solemn public relations of the administration prevails. A must be the primary political content. Then the holiday will turn out.

In order to understand the continuity of 4 and 7 in November, the Day of Popular Unity should become the day when the whole country remembers (watches movies and cartoons, reads in newspapers and on the Internet, passes lessons and listens to lectures) about some important events and heroic people .

This means that the state should explain in an accessible and massive way how the Troubles arise. What is this phenomenon? Why did the Poles manage to end up in Moscow without winning a single battle, and how did the influential Russian clans join the interventionists and swear allegiance to the False King?

In order to understand how this should be done in popular culture, it is worth relying on the political experience of the mythologization of November 7 within the framework of the USSR. At first it was generally a celebration of the beginning of the World Revolution. Then he was transformed on the day of the Great Proletarian Revolution. And only then he became the actual day of the Great October Socialist Revolution - which we remembered.

November 7 for every Soviet citizen was the point of the watershed. Appeared "before the revolution" and "after the revolution." Accordingly, the picture of the world was described in two realities: before and after.

A new political reckoning began. A citizen felt a part of history and was born into a new era.

And for the involvement with the story and need those same films, cartoons and computer games. In addition to the school and university programs.

It is necessary to explain in the language of the broad masses of the people, why, actually, 4 November is the beginning of a new stage in the history of the Moscow kingdom. What if there was no victory over the interventionists, then Russia would become an ordinary colony of Polish colonialists, as South America became a colony of Spanish and Portuguese. Today we can watch it from Moscow to Warsaw from the height of the country from the Baltic to the Pacific Ocean. And at the beginning of the XVII century it was exactly the opposite. The huge densely populated Polish state from the Baltic to the Black Sea is against the Muscovy torn apart by the civil war, where power was shared between a hundred separatist princes and oligarch boyars.

Actually, if it were not for 4 November in the history of Muscovy, it is not clear whether Russia would have appeared later.

And, by the way, it’s not a fact that the uprising of Bogdan Khmelnitsky in Ukraine would have been successful, would remain under the rule of puppet Polish magnates in Moscow. It is not clear what would have happened to the eastern regions of Muscovy at that time — most likely, numerous Turkic and Finno-Ugric peoples had settled away from Moscow, and then they were firmly colonized, as happened with the natives of India, the Americas, Australia and Oceania.

This is what the November 4 holiday should be about. About the real problems and challenges of Russia through the prism of history. Only then is there a chance that our citizens will develop a clear understanding of the Troubles as a political process that must be cauterized at any cost. Just as it should be explained that the collapse of the Soviet Union is also a consequence of the Troubles. Only the Troubles in the political conditions of the late twentieth century. Actually, this will finally be able to marginalize the political battles between the “red” and “white” ones.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.odnako.org/blogs/ot-sedmogo-noyabrya-k-chetvyortomu-kak-sozdat-krasniy-den-kalendarya/
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  1. Decathlon
    Decathlon 10 November 2015 13: 08
    28
    Maybe later, when there are no us born in the 40s, 50s, 60s, November 4 will become a full-fledged holiday. But, in my opinion, there will probably not be that enthusiasm, joy and feeling of unity, as with the word "November 7". Each era has its own holidays and its own values, forgive the old man's muttering and sentimentality! crying hi
    1. Tor5
      Tor5 10 November 2015 13: 22
      +9
      I completely agree, as I was born in the late forties, I neither perceive nor perceive this "alteration".
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 10 November 2015 13: 27
        +6
        Quote: Tor5
        as born in the late forties, I neither perceive nor perceive this "alteration".

        In principle, it is impossible to bring out at least any important date and instantly make it a national holiday. The same New Year, how many took root?
    2. oldseaman1957
      oldseaman1957 10 November 2015 13: 40
      -1
      Quote: Decathlon
      But, in my opinion, there will probably not be that enthusiasm, joy and feeling of unity, as with the word "November 7".

      And how many philologists we have - political scientists (?!). So let the guys don’t eat bread in vain, they play a joke on TV between the friends. Let them justify the importance for Russia of the 4th of November!
      1. Burmistr
        Burmistr 10 November 2015 17: 03
        -7
        Quote: Decathlon
        But, in my opinion, there will probably not be that enthusiasm, joy and feeling of unity, as with the word "November 7".


        It’s time to know that all this time the country celebrated the birthday of Leibo Davidovich Bronstein (Leon Trotsky). Now think carefully whether we need this holiday.
        1. ALABAY45
          ALABAY45 10 November 2015 18: 45
          +2
          And you, try to explain to the country that it has celebrated the wrong holiday and continues to celebrate! The country will answer you ... And, regarding the Holiday .. Maybe you don’t need it, but don’t touch the old people and generalize! hi
    3. varov14
      varov14 11 November 2015 04: 25
      0
      If we interpret the article in this way, it turns out that the current "oligarchs" are not far from the turmoil. Who in power dares to go for this, the same boyar duma.
    4. Stelth1985
      Stelth1985 11 November 2015 05: 20
      0
      I completely agree with you. While the Soviet generations are alive, it is simply not possible to break what was laid in us!
  2. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 10 November 2015 13: 09
    +3
    In the light of how world events are developing now, in a hundred years, if we mark all the significant dates, we can generally go to 365 days off a year.
  3. Altona
    Altona 10 November 2015 13: 12
    +8
    Actually, yes, it could have been, but there is little information about this day and that era ... In a nutshell, one part of the Russian people did not agree with the Moscow authorities and announced that "the tsar was not real" (why didn’t agree? Taxes were high, crop failure -drought, the coin was made copper, and they demanded to submit it in silver) ... Since there was no way to cope with the "mos.cali", they called on the "Polish army" for help, and Poland at that time was a powerful military power. Next is the epic with impostors and the people's militia. In general, one to one, the Maidan situation ... And so we got out of this color revolution, and became a powerful power, attached to our kingdom the Trans-Ural lands to the Pacific Ocean ... The holiday is about that ... But the date is so distant, that it is difficult to associate yourself with her and it turns out, whatever one may say, the celebration of the 403rd anniversary of the Romanov dynasty ... And on November 7, as it were, the other way around ... This is such garbage, gentlemen-comrades ...
    1. Altona
      Altona 10 November 2015 13: 26
      0
      Quote: Altona
      ..Here is such garbage, gentlemen, comrades ...

      --------------------
      Well, a little digression into history, and two traitor pshek galloped off with minuses ... laughing lol good
    2. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 10 November 2015 13: 53
      +7
      Altona
      Actually, yes, it could have become, but there is little information about this day and that era ..

      I completely agree with the author of the article! What is Kremlin officialdom presenting to us through the media - A CALL FOR REconciliation ... TO CELEBRATE NOVEMBER 4 ... TO CELEBRATE THE EXCLUSION OF POLES ...
      And why and why it was required to collect more than 50 militias to expel the Poles, who were fewer than 000 people ??? .. SILENT !!!!
      After all, in essence, it is necessary to TELL ABOUT THE TROOPS OF MININ AND POZHARSKY'S Militia went against the mercenaries in the face of the boyar sold to the Poles. That for more than 3 months there was a so-called "standing" in TUSHINO of militias and mercenaries of boyars. THIS BOYAR NOW CAN BE BOLDLY CALLED - "THE FIFTH COLUMN".
      But this is so similar to the current state of affairs in Russia - IN FACT RUSSIA ALREADY DOES NOT BELONG TO THE RUSSIANS: FROM THE END OF JUNE 2011 MORE THAN 50% OF PRODUCTION CAPACITY IN THE COUNTRY OWNS FOREIGN CAPITAL! To protect their interests ... WELL ... JUST A VERY AND VERY MANY RUSSIAN (including officials) REPRESENTATIVES ... OF THE PRESENT FIFTH COLUMN!
      What is not your situation in society back in 1612?
      Therefore, we are encouraged to celebrate November 4th ... not intelligibly muttering that this is the date of the expulsion of the Poles (!!!) ... and not VICTORY OVER THE FIFTH COLUMN! This gave impetus to the development of Russia as a state at a new, higher level!
      1. Altona
        Altona 10 November 2015 13: 56
        +2
        Quote: KazaK Bo
        But this is so similar to the current state of affairs in Russia - IN FACT RUSSIA ALREADY DOES NOT BELONG TO THE RUSSIANS: FROM THE END OF JUNE 2011 MORE THAN 50% OF PRODUCTION CAPACITY IN THE COUNTRY OWNS FOREIGN CAPITAL! To protect their interests ... WELL ... JUST A VERY AND VERY MANY RUSSIAN (including officials) REPRESENTATIVES ... OF THE PRESENT FIFTH COLUMN!
        What is not your situation in society back in 1612?

        -----------------------
        And what did I write about? I wrote in a nutshell "Maidan situation", with the involvement of a foreign contingent ... Or do you need to write a historical work in one post?

        But this is so similar to the current state of affairs in Russia - IN FACT RUSSIA ALREADY DOES NOT BELONG TO THE RUSSIANS: FROM THE END OF JUNE 2011 MORE THAN 50% OF PRODUCTION CAPACITY IN THE COUNTRY OWNS FOREIGN CAPITAL! To protect their interests ... WELL ... JUST A VERY AND VERY MANY RUSSIAN (including officials) REPRESENTATIVES ... OF THE PRESENT FIFTH COLUMN!
        -----------------------
        So this is a big hello from the 90s, when we could not pay the debts of something there. Remember the $ 500 billion public debt? So the IMF began to set conditions for us, and one of the conditions was large-scale privatization with the participation of foreign capital, they say, give it in kind, since you can’t give it money.

        PS Regarding the "expulsion of the Poles", they would have died in a week and so, their boots had already been eaten by them ... So I don't know why this date is remarkable. There was essentially a civil war. If then the Zemsky Sobor was assembled and the new tsar was anointed ... And the militia? What is the militia? We won the war, why does the ruling class need it?
        1. dmb
          dmb 10 November 2015 14: 47
          +2
          Well, I didn’t give you a minus, and I cannot agree with the use of “maidans” and “fifth columns” to describe the events of four hundred years ago. Nowadays, these concepts are molded with a plug in all the holes. In general, of course, it turns out funny, but the victims of the exam believe that this is true. As for the date, November 4, as a public holiday associated with the expulsion of the Poles, even under the tsars-priests, it was not celebrated when it was born, from what Budun it should be celebrated in this "social state with a democratic form of government", and therefore will become obsolete before returning to a socialist society.
      2. Stelth1985
        Stelth1985 11 November 2015 05: 23
        0
        I am glad that there are people who understand everything in the same way as I do. Think soberly and do not bribe.
    3. plebs
      plebs 10 November 2015 15: 53
      +1
      Since there was no way to cope with the "mos.cali", they called for the help of the "Polish army"
      Why cope with "mos.cali"? You did not understand the essence of the holiday, Muscovites, after the death of Godunov, they began to drag all kinds of trash to the Russian throne. Then those who did not please were overthrown and invited to the throne of new thieves. In the end, the provinces got tired of this mess. They gathered an army and came to Moscow and piled on everyone, including Muscovites. In general, we put things in order. This is the kind of unity we celebrate now!
      1. Stelth1985
        Stelth1985 11 November 2015 05: 26
        0
        It was also necessary to do the same in the year 91m. But then the army betrayed its country, as well as the people themselves.

        For the Honor and Glory of the ancestors!
  4. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 10 November 2015 13: 13
    +9
    The continuity and interconnectedness of National Unity Day and Soviet November 7 are understandable

    The continuity and interconnectedness of these holidays is only in that they are both celebrated in the first ten days of November. There is nothing in common in them, neither in essence nor in meaning. This is the same as comparing March 8 and May 1. request
  5. SAM 5
    SAM 5 10 November 2015 13: 15
    0
    Respect to the author, I rightly noticed.
  6. vicdoc63
    vicdoc63 10 November 2015 13: 19
    -4
    I would like to get an answer to a question that has been haunting me lately. But if we imagine there is no USSR, that is, there was no Revolution and the Romanovs remained in power. Would there be a Great Patriotic War? After all, as you know, our kings were in kinship with blood.
    1. Altona
      Altona 10 November 2015 13: 23
      14
      Quote: vicdoc63
      I would like to get an answer to a question that has been haunting me lately. But if we imagine there is no USSR, that is, there was no Revolution and the Romanovs remained in power. Would there be a Great Patriotic War? After all, as you know, our kings were in kinship with blood.

      ---------------
      So in World War I, Kaiser Wilhelm was a cousin of Nikolai, a cousin, and nothing, they were cut in full on the whole front ... Politics, nothing personal ...
      1. vicdoc63
        vicdoc63 10 November 2015 13: 26
        +1
        I remember it. The question is, under what idea, under whose guidance, who would inspire?
        1. vch62388
          vch62388 10 November 2015 13: 44
          +2
          In our understanding, there would be no second world war, if the Kaiser remained in power. This could not be. He lost in the best conditions for him - Russia's way out of the war. The severe crisis and the Nazis' rise to power was almost inevitable. This implies the inevitability of another major war in Europe.
          As an alternative, the Communists came to power in Germany. Again, the inevitability of a clash between the two systems.
          War would have happened anyway. But when and in what scenario ...?
    2. ALEA IACTA EST
      ALEA IACTA EST 10 November 2015 17: 49
      +1
      Quote: vicdoc63
      Would there be a Great Patriotic War?

      Only one thing prevented the USSR from crushing Hitler in the 30s: Poland, Romania and Czechoslovakia did not let the Red Army through. If Russia remained within its former borders, then such a problem would not have arisen.
      And Hitler would hardly have come to power: on anti-Semitism alone he would not have gone far ...
    3. Per se.
      Per se. 10 November 2015 19: 47
      +3
      Quote: vicdoc63
      . Would there be a Great Patriotic War?
      Good question, Victor, as they say. To answer it, first of all, you need to understand the main thing, the fight for world leadership did not begin in the Second World War, and, even, not in the First, the founders of capitalism, the British, began this fight much earlier, where the first and most grandiose battle became their struggle with France, and Napoleon, who came to power on the wave of the Great French Revolution. The cunning and insidious British have successfully formed an alliance, in fact substituting Prussia, Austria and Russia in their place, which bore the brunt of the war in Europe. For France, Russia was not seen as an enemy, Napoleon himself, after the assassination of Paul I, considered this an intrigue of England, and tried to find an alliance with Russia. The challenge thrown by Napoleon to the dominion of Great Britain was lost by France, the Anglo-Saxons warmed their hands the most. The second challenge to the Anglo-Saxons was thrown by the Germans, their young capitalism wanted to squeeze England, but the smart-ass British formed an alliance again, again drawing Russia into it, although the Germans and I did not have any special contradictions and, even, could be allies. As a result, four main empires collapsed, Russian, German, Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman. Who warmed up their hands again by eliminating competitors? That's right, UK. A pole of power begins to take shape, capitalism becomes transnational, and the Anglo-Saxons have leadership in it. But, a mistake came out, the Bolsheviks did not destroy Russia, which England always wanted to see in its grave, but created a counterweight, a new pole of power, socialism, not controlled by world capital, began to create a socialist superpower. Here they remembered about Germany humiliated and offended by Versailles, fed Hitler, first of all, against the communists, against the USSR. If it weren't for the communists and the Soviet Union, they were preparing an unenviable fate for Russia, Yeltsin is not Hitler, but who did more harm to us? So think what would happen if Britain needed Russia, if not dead, then certainly not prosperous, and, definitely, not a superpower, which she, by definition, could not become a leader at the pole of capitalism. This is still relevant now if our liberals talk about a "multipolar" world, being in capitalism and playing by someone else's rules.
  7. marinier
    marinier 10 November 2015 13: 19
    +6
    Yeah!
    with all due respect to the Reds and the Whites.
    Reconcile Messrs. At the end!
    Knots of Vi Natsia Suvorov, Kutuzov, and many others you don’t understand, 4
    exaggerated by the fierce confrontation, you pour water into the mill of your
    and secret enemies !!!
    Mr. yes the knots of history didn’t find you ???
    Recognize the comrades Reds and gentlemen Bely, 4th sei4as without exaggeration 4 RUSSIA
    there is in a dense ring miagko speaking unkind-greening.
    Remember! In unity you are strong! In harmony and full of harmony within society
    You are not overpowered!

    Ms. with the best appeal to RUSSIA, YOUR GOOD WAN!

    P.S. Divide and Conquer. This principle in politics has not yet been exchanged !!!
  8. bydanoff.val
    bydanoff.val 10 November 2015 13: 20
    -7
    In a thieves' and corrupt state afflicted with an epidemic of profit. Holidays, especially Unity, are not possible at all, if not PR
    1. marinier
      marinier 10 November 2015 14: 18
      +3
      Vy est provokator, i ne-dobrozilatel RSSKOGO Naroda.
      Bolee togo smeu zametit vAM vY EST VRAG zestokij ras4etlivyj
      ina4e kak rascenit vASH avatar, familia 4elovek bez-uslovno
      sloznoj sudby, i pavshego zertvoj obstiatelstv.
      Obi4no ia izbegal temy vnutrenij politik ROSSIJSKOJ Federacii, no vY i vAM PODOBNYE provocirovat protivostianie
      i vyzyvat svoim disonansnym zayavlenie vyzyvat provokacii.
      Takih iudushek kak vY ranshe predavat ANAFEMA.
      Po moemu predstavilsa slu4aj vozrodit etot tradicij, v
      otnoshenij k vAM.

      PS S neuvazeniem i prezreniem k vAM i vAM podobnjm.
      4EST! V otli4ie ot vAS imet !!!
  9. Per se.
    Per se. 10 November 2015 13: 26
    +8
    The French do not sprinkle ashes on their heads, they celebrate the Great French Revolution, in which they also broke a lot of firewood, and the nobles were executed and generally shed blood. Not the Bolsheviks of Nicholas II, forced to abdicate from the throne, like the rest of the Romanovs. Were it not for the October Revolution, what happened after 1991, with the Chubais, Gaidars and Yeltsin, would have started already in 1917, Russia would have been "formatted" much earlier, put under the West, it was not for nothing that they gave us loans at interest. they dragged into the Entente and pitched them against the Germans. The Bolsheviks saved Russia from collapse, made it a space and nuclear superpower, which Russia, under tsarism and governments like Kerensky, would never have become. The Soviet Union is a fait accompli, and we are still using Soviet achievements, riding on the strength of the legacy of the USSR. Removing the holiday on November 7 is stupid and dishonorable; it's like demolishing Soviet monuments. So far, the bourgeoisie have not done anything more significant for Russia, and if they use the results of the achievements of the Soviet Union, it would be more decent to return the holiday on November 7
  10. SPLV
    SPLV 10 November 2015 13: 28
    +1
    Sadness. With the propaganda everywhere at the international level of opposition to the rewriting of history, the efforts of this particular rewriting are so clearly visible within the country. "Devastation, it is not in the closets, but in the heads!" Another opus for making confusion in the head and an attempt to wishful thinking.
  11. DPN
    DPN 10 November 2015 13: 31
    +6
    As long as at least one SOVIET MAN is alive, the holiday will be alive on November 7, day, "hangs a poster of LOTS OF GENTLEMEN, LOTS OF GENTLEMEN, so in OCTOBER THE DREAM COMES TRUE WORKERS and PEASANTS"
    November 4 is a church holiday, they gave a left turn on the left cheek, he was born a slave, a slave and die this is what we came to in 1991.
  12. marxlight
    marxlight 10 November 2015 13: 34
    +2
    Thanks to the author! Plus!
    Finally, all the pros and cons of this day were clearly and intelligibly chewed. In reality, with the right presentation, it can unite people and become a holiday with great meaning.
    Favorite article, show many!
  13. atamankko
    atamankko 10 November 2015 13: 43
    +1
    Only traitors and scum rewrite history for themselves.
  14. roskot
    roskot 10 November 2015 13: 44
    +2
    Actually, if it were not for 4 November in the history of Muscovy, it is not clear whether Russia would have appeared later.

    So there were new shamans conjuring a new holiday.
    And how then with Dmitry Donskoy, with Kutuzov, etc. Holidays? Definitely.
    Only do not conjure. The people will figure it out.
  15. Gardamir
    Gardamir 10 November 2015 13: 45
    +6
    Remember how the holiday was organized on June 12? On this day, Boris Nikolaevich, beloved by the current government, became president of the RSFSR, however, a year earlier, deputies adopted a declaration on the state sovereignty of the RSFSR. Now we understand that both of these steps were the path to the collapse of the USSR. But the winners made this holiday celebrate as Independence Day. The people did not accept this and the authorities had to consider this day to be the day of Russia. although agree is not a reason for celebration.
    What does this have to do with this topic? The most direct. Power rummaged in calendars for a long time to block November 7th. Found as much as four hundred years ago. But after the prescription of years, the people did not rejoice at such a holiday. For the unity of the oligarchs and people living with hopes of justice is impossible.
    Then the authorities found an elegant solution, because the Russian from Dagestan and the Russian from Yakutsk are united. But for some reason, the Russian from Pskov wants to be called Russian.
  16. 31rus
    31rus 10 November 2015 13: 48
    +4
    dear ones, it’s not a holiday, but politics, an attempt to "forget", to rewrite history under a favorable interpretation, this is what is actually happening, is it worth it to be surprised at the inaction of the higher officials, at the "mockery" of monuments in other countries. In general, holidays should unite people, but here it's the opposite
  17. DPN
    DPN 10 November 2015 13: 59
    +4
    November 4 is a holiday of unity of Serdyukov and Vasilyeva and the like, but not working with the oligarch.
    1. Altona
      Altona 10 November 2015 14: 23
      +3
      Quote: DPN
      November 4 is a holiday of unity of Serdyukov and Vasilyeva and the like, but not working with the oligarch.

      -----------------------
      If you wish, this holiday is easy to turn inside out ... It turns out that Tatar Minin gathered the Nizhny Novgorod Mordovians and other Volga peoples and freed the Russians from the Poles ... But now the authorities do not bother with this ... We are the Champions of the World ... This sauce is served ...
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 10 November 2015 15: 34
        +5
        Quote: Altona
        Tatar Minin collected Nizhny Novgorod Mordovia

        Severely noticed! And now, after 400 years, they made a holiday and began to widely celebrate! hi
  18. gladysheff2010
    gladysheff2010 10 November 2015 14: 24
    +1
    It makes no sense to interfere with everything in a common heap: there are (and apparently will still exist for a long time) celebrating November 7, but there are enough people who respect November 4 - and this is a fact! There is no need to draw a watershed line between those and these people, especially that no one interferes with these views. Isn't it better to do more relevant things than digging in your own dirty laundry, be sure to dig up contradictions - this is the way to nowhere! Historians do not count - this is their profession. Leave people to determine their own beliefs, but it is not worth agitating for a "correct" view of things and objects, because the human worldview is the result of one's own experience, combined with upbringing and education, and if the former can be influenced only indirectly (propaganda including cinema, TV, etc.) ), then the second should be subject to direct government influence (you came to study in the Russian Federation, study according to our manuals, if you want European education, go to Europe). And for everything else there is a LAW, so it should be observe! hi
  19. engineer74
    engineer74 10 November 2015 14: 45
    0
    ... to the spaceship "Baikonur"...

    I did not read further ... It was not for this author to talk about the USSR ... negative
  20. igordok
    igordok 10 November 2015 14: 51
    +2
    I agree with the author. 4 of November was a day off, but not HOLIDAY.
  21. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 November 2015 15: 11
    +2
    Look, dear comrades, how little Poland is behaving now! Remember the articles that are written here about Poland and the USSR, about Poland and Russia. Until I read these articles here, I did not think about November 4 in general. Since all the relatives, their acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances, etc. think like most of you. Imagine what would happen if
    Quote: roskot
    Actually, if it were not for 4 November in the history of Muscovy, it is not clear whether Russia would have appeared later.

    So there were new shamans conjuring a new holiday.
    And how then with Dmitry Donskoy, with Kutuzov, etc. Holidays? Definitely.
    Only do not conjure. The people will figure it out.

    Before this Day, I watched a lot of children's stories on the network on this topic. Schools teach that this is a holiday. Why should I separate from the children? I still don’t know when they will be, but many write about their grandchildren. And on this day then you can prepare by November 7th. There were some skeptical friends and family friends and I explained when I congratulated. And on November 7th I congratulated everyone again. I liked the photo on November 7th very much in Donetsk. Like the pictures. We have a lot of books on the art of the USSR, there there are holidays.
  22. Mercury
    Mercury 10 November 2015 15: 34
    -7
    They returned the old holiday in 1917. The Communists took off the holiday on November 4 and celebrated their Maidan, and as it was said above, reformatting the Russian world to the Western one. For some reason everyone forgets that communism is not ours and reformatted Russia even then under atheism and German Marxism alien to Russia. people under the USSR cannot be overestimated but who worked for Lenin and Stalin? only a few scumbags of the rest forced people to stupidly be afraid to be against the communists. If they forgot the dissenters they shot and exiled to the camps. And as soon as people were given the opportunity to choose communism fell. Communism now in the DPRK do you want this with us?
    1. Geronimo73
      Geronimo73 10 November 2015 16: 56
      +4
      Communism has never existed anywhere - do not smack nonsense.
    2. Geronimo73
      Geronimo73 10 November 2015 16: 56
      0
      Communism has never existed anywhere - do not smack nonsense.
  23. Geronimo73
    Geronimo73 10 November 2015 16: 52
    +2
    what stupidity? the events of the 17th century before the formation of nation-states were essentially a feudal squabble of a local scale, mixed with religious Catholics and Orthodox, and included in Romanov’s mythology .... November 7 and 4 (if it was November 4 at all) are completely different the scale, nature and consequences of the event and extort one another is stupid and dishonorable!
    it would never occur to anyone in France to replace the day of the capture of the Bastille with the day of the Battle of Poitiers or in the United States to place the Mayflower landing in replacement on July 4. therefore, no red day will ever come out on November 4th.
  24. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 November 2015 17: 22
    +1
    Why replace? Let November 4 be a holiday, and November 7 --- a completely different one. It turned out that when I was studying --- they stopped celebrating one holiday and weren’t used to another. Can you celebrate a house? Even in stores there are all sorts of interesting goodies were. For example, tea is very good, long gone at a normal price. I participated.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 10 November 2015 18: 59
      0
      When I wrote that I stopped celebrating, I meant that there was a vacuum in the school at all. Like there wasn’t anything at all. And not everyone at home was talking about November 7, because the parents did not want to conflict with the school.
    2. Geronimo73
      Geronimo73 10 November 2015 20: 03
      0
      in fact, there is an attempt to substitute. although very clumsy
  25. evgmiz
    evgmiz 10 November 2015 17: 57
    0
    Unity with whom? .. I do not mind combining, say, my beggarly pension with incomes, for example, Sechin.
  26. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 10 November 2015 17: 58
    0
    In my opinion, it’s better to take it and set it as a holiday on November 5 or 6, otherwise you’ve already got all these disassemblies ...
  27. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 November 2015 18: 51
    0
    Relatives say under socialism by November 7 there were food packages and mother, aunts and uncles say that the Bolsheviks came to schools who saw Lenin and Stalin, as well as participants in the Great Patriotic War. At home there was a good table on November 7 and watched clips of revolutionary songs. Good performers.
  28. Vladimir 1964
    Vladimir 1964 10 November 2015 19: 54
    0
    As long as the material culture of the USSR lives around us, until then the image of the Soviet Union will be relevant. And any ideology at the level of the masses is always a set of images, and not a harmonious system of theorems and evidence.


    Properly said. Indeed, the state at the present stage with a national ideology does not bother. In 10-15 years, the next generations will grow up and they won’t even know that once there were free kindergartens, a good and free education, affordable children's vacations at sea and much more, and there were no oligarchs and EDRs who had plundered the country. yes
  29. Vladimir 1964
    Vladimir 1964 10 November 2015 20: 05
    +2
    The troubles, which, in theory, the holiday on November 4 should tell, did not become a source of content for state propaganda and agitation.
    But the historical material of the Troubles of the XVII century gives a lot of instructive material.
    How the boyars became an oligarchy. As the elite split, powerful families supported the Polish intervention.


    So this is why this holiday will be so "empty and not nationwide" at the present stage, because if those events of the Troubles are explained to the people, in order to educate citizens and patriots, then new Minins and Pozharsky will appear again, who will carry the present troubles together with influential families who supported the American liberal intervention and plundered their homeland. yes
  30. beer-youk
    beer-youk 10 November 2015 20: 16
    +1
    In my opinion, a nationwide holiday can be born from an event in which people who lived then were able to pass on or witness their holiday to descendants. And to appoint a holiday the day of the event of five centuries ago is a perversion!
  31. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 11 November 2015 12: 18
    0
    Posted yesterday:

    REFLECTIONS
    So how old is November coming,
    And I do not know what to say ---
    What a strange holiday
    Will we celebrate again?

    Consent and reconciliation? Or fear of loss and pain of loss?
    Suffering or oblivion?
    What are we celebrating now?

    Betrayal of the top? Their meanness?
    And G.M.S., and E.B.N.?
    Our fear of loss? A sob in the voice?
    What are we celebrating now?

    And the children that were born later
    We will smile and again
    Find out how they studied,
    And we will celebrate the holiday.

    All children become older ---
    Learn the Truth and understand
    The country will rise and rise
    In a worthy life they will find meaning!