Military Review

Party "Putinslil". Our differences

146
Somehow imperceptibly we formed this informal party, the banner of which was the hero of the defense of Slavyansk from Bandera Igor Strelkov. The latter circumstance forces to pay attention to it.


The position of this party is, in fact, that it puts forward claims to Moscow and Putin about myopic politics in Ukraine, the lack of determination to send troops to the south-eastern regions of Ukraine, historical New Russia, which, according to Putinslill, will have long-term negative consequences for Russia. It will lose these lands of its own, the Russian population will be fooled by them and anti-Russian, we will receive a hostile Bandera state and a bridgehead of the West on its southern borders.

At the same time, it was proposed to extend the “Crimean scenario” to Novorossia as an alternative policy, which allowed to reunite Crimea with Russia in the spring of 2014. By default, this party proceeds from the fact that Washington would have had to “swallow” and the “Novorossiysk scenario”, and everything would have been reduced, in general, “to today's confrontation, only Novorossiya, from Odessa to Kharkov, would be free from Bandera and have at least the "Abkhaz" status.

With this approach, it turns out that Novorossia was “merged” by Putin, fragments in the form of DNR and LC — nothing more than a pitiful remnant of it. Moreover, this situation, believes “Putinslil” for a long time ... Indeed, the bleak picture, that's just realistic?

Yes, the “Crimean” expectations of the Pitmen, who voted at the referendum in the “Russian Spring”, did not materialize. Perhaps, Moscow’s expectations were not met. After the "revolution of dignity", Bandera Kiev sent nationalist gangs under the guise of "friendship trains" to the south-east to establish Bandera's "terrible order" by killing activists and intimidating the rest.

And Europe fully supported such a clearly neo-fascist government in Kiev! This "fullness" was still unexpected. The APU in this dramatic situation did not split, which, in my opinion, was very much hoped for in Moscow, based on the Crimean experience. Bandera managed to partially strip, partially intimidate the officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Almost all of April, Moscow was analyzing the consequences of the deployment of troops, and at the end of the month the Federation Council revoked the permission to deploy troops. Russia did not spread the Crimean scenario to Donbass ...

Because the confrontation with Washington, and in general with the West, reached its apogee: the question of a big war in Europe was at stake, and Ukraine would become the main field of this war. With quite understandable consequences ... I remember well the alarm that was poured in the air in the summer of 2014: there was talk of “big war” in the media, important “sources” were talking about it, they were confirmed by the statements of world leaders. In Russia, there were exercises of entire military districts ...

The party “Putinslil” or really does not see this issue, they say, everything would have done and came to today's confrontation with the West, but would have reunited a sort of “big Crimea”. Or internally, she is ready for a hot "big war", that is, the war of Russia with Europe and America, and not with Bandera Kiev.

America also waited for Russian troops to enter Ukraine. American analytic hawks, like Brzezinski, talked about the inevitable war in Europe, in which the West would have to repel Russia's aggression in Ukraine. With the help of the Ukrainian army, with the support of the entire world community.

“As a result, we will have two destroyed economies: the Russian and the Ukrainian,” said Brzezinski, and kept silent that the European economy would also have been destroyed. Europe understood this well, and began to slow down the Americans, suggested the “Norman format”, with Russia, but without the Americans.

In Normandy, Moscow also took a step towards Europe, reaffirming the "integrity" of mainland Ukraine, which would not send troops to Ukraine, but Putin also said that he would not allow the Donbass to be suppressed by force. Thus began the hybrid, sanctions and information war between Russia and the West, under the umbrella of the “Norman” negotiation format with the tacit assistance of Russia to Donbas. By doing this, Moscow balanced both official and tacit aid from the West to Bandera. Heavy fighting in the Donbass, in the end, ended with the Minsk agreements. Putin kept his word, Donbass resisted.

In my opinion, the Minsk Agreements, which consolidated the status of the DPR and LPR, resemble the “Brest Peace”, which Lenin called “obscene”, but a step in the right direction, because he foresaw the German revolution, which would make the Brest Agreement with the Germans invalid. So it happened.

Today's Minsk agreements are much more likely to "cover up with a copper basin," and already in the 2016 year. And, in general, for the same reasons. The revolutionaries of "gidnosti" need to study Lenin, he was a great politician of the era of revolutions, and not to demolish his monuments. He's getting revenge ...
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  1. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 9 November 2015 07: 39 New
    31
    Big politics is somewhat different even from serious chess, and even from a game of dominoes ... Were we seriously going to "conquer" Dill with arms in hand? It’s clear that no NATO could interfere in this process, and in a maximum of a couple of weeks, our units would have stood on the western borders of the territory. What then? And why is Russia? Crimea - it is clear, this is the Black Sea, who owns the Crimea, he dominates in this area. And the American military base in Sevastopol is obviously an unacceptable condition. Moreover, if Mattressniki would not spare any funds to create such a base, then NATO (read, striped-eared) will have neither the means nor the desire to create bases in the steppes of eastern Dill. The battalion was smeared across the Baltic states for a year.
    1. SSR
      SSR 9 November 2015 07: 50 New
      15
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Большая политика несколько отличается даже от серьезных шахмат, а уж от партии в домино ... Мы что, всерьёз собирались "завоёвывать" Укропию с оружием в руках? Ежу понятно, что никакое НАТО помешать в этом процессе не могло, и максимум через пару недель наши части встали бы на западных границах территории. А что потом? А России это зачем?.

      And the permit for a simplified stay of Ukrainian citizens in the Russian Federation issued in the spring, in the warmth ..... And closed in the fall)))) and closed for the especially relaxed for three years now ... looks different. Now they returned home in the cold .. .. And three years (will have) without work ....... Probably their priorities will change. ))))
      1. Insurgent LC
        Insurgent LC 9 November 2015 10: 46 New
        11
        about priorities, who, for various reasons, lost his documents and received an LPR passport to Russia was not allowed at customs, though in October they started but only in the Rostov Region, here are the priorities
        1. Mahmut
          Mahmut 9 November 2015 14: 28 New
          +7
          How many people have so many opinions. Everyone has the right to express their opinion, including publicly. But Strelkov has the right to refuse. And why.
          For example, Strelkov has information that the LDNR army is emasculated and bloodless. The best commanders are knocked out and in the event of an assault on the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the BCH army will be crushed. There is no assault yet, but where is the guarantee that there will be no assault. No warranties. Where is the guarantee that the bombing of the Russian Aerospace Forces is enough to destroy ISIS. Again no guarantees. Assad’s army is almost marking time. And what will happen when the time of the operation of the videoconferencing expires. So nothing is clear yet. If the thunder has not yet struck, this does not mean that it will not strike at all. And therefore, I see no reason for keyboard strategists to flood Strelkov with mud almost every day.
          1. g1v2
            g1v2 9 November 2015 15: 10 New
            -2
            Personally, I believe that Strelkova’s raid was organized by the States in order to get a formal reason to crush the Russian spring by force, to force the Russian Federation to get involved in a war against part of its people and to achieve UN sanctions after that. All the behavior and words of Girkin point to his masters. The phrase Surkovian propaganda alone is worth. This is my personal opinion, based on the analysis of information for a year and a half. If I am right, then he will either be killed, accusing the Kremlin of this, or made leader of a pseudo-patriotic Maidan. This version for me personally explains all the inconsistencies and behavior of the parties. Well, the fact that Girkin lied to those who believed him when he said that he was an emissary from the Kremlin and that official authorities had sent him to organize the uprising, I think many understand. Even the last ram will not believe that an intelligence officer going on a mission to another country will publicly announce that he is an FSB officer and is waiting for armed assistance from the Russian Federation. AWESOME SECRET JOB. belay And most likely, many in the Donbass cannot stand it for a lie. Of course, you can completely expand all the rationales for the points, but this is not required. Those who believe in it will put a minus without reading, but someone may think and try to think and explain it themselves.
            1. I am Russian
              I am Russian 9 November 2015 17: 57 New
              +4
              Quote: g1v2
              Personally, I believe that Strelkova’s raid was organized by the States in order to get a formal reason to crush the Russian spring by force, to force the Russian Federation to get involved in a war against part of its people and to achieve UN sanctions after that. All the behavior and words of Girkin point to his masters. The phrase Surkovian propaganda alone is worth. This is my personal opinion, based on the analysis of information for a year and a half. If I am right, then he will either be killed, accusing the Kremlin of this, or made leader of a pseudo-patriotic Maidan. This version for me personally explains all the inconsistencies and behavior of the parties. Well, the fact that Girkin lied to those who believed him when he said that he was an emissary from the Kremlin and that official authorities had sent him to organize the uprising, I think many understand. Even the last ram will not believe that an intelligence officer going on a mission to another country will publicly announce that he is an FSB officer and is waiting for armed assistance from the Russian Federation. AWESOME SECRET JOB. belay And most likely, many in the Donbass cannot stand it for a lie. Of course, you can completely expand all the rationales for the points, but this is not required. Those who believe in it will put a minus without reading, but someone may think and try to think and explain it themselves.


              So in the Crimea Strelkova also pindo.ssy sent ??

              Further, marmots (dudaev !!!!) - the person who worked? (Works) for Khodarkovsky.

              November-December 2014, Nathaniel Rodschild (Jr.) personally flew to Moscow — and guess who he met? True with Surkov and Dvorkovich.

              Lieutenant General of the SVR of the Russian Federation Leonid Petrovich Reshetnikov, head of the RISI in combination. In Crimea, he worked with Strelkov. And then turn on the brain itself ....

              You have no right to speak out for me, because I am a resident of Donbass.
              I will be glad if Igor Ivanovich returns to his post in New Russia.
              1. g1v2
                g1v2 9 November 2015 19: 15 New
                +3
                I don’t speak out for you - you have your own opinion, but I have my own. Everywhere where Girkin was, he was on the orders of his boss - the oligarch Malofeev, in whom he served as the head of the security service. By the way, bearded (that's a coincidence belay ) is also his employee. Well, about Malofeev AND HIS RELATIONS, you yourself read, if it becomes interesting. As for Surkov, fans of Girkin’s fad, I won’t attack the sore spot. And by the way, when Kurginyan shouted at Strelkov and transferred how much was delivered to him, it never occurred to you - how did he know this and with what fright did he yell at a stranger, accusing him of something? wink And the answer is simple - Kurginyan was one of the group WHAT GIRKIN SENT TO DONBASS. That is, he simply yelled at the subordinate who did not fulfill the order. But who was behind this group in my opinion, I said earlier. soldier Well, now a black box in the studio. Reshetnikov - served in the army, girkin served in the FSB before. That is, the structures are at least different. That is, two retired servicemen from different structures. If you aren’t in the know, then the Rescuers have retired since 2009. And if they worked for a couple in the Crimea for whom, then certainly not for the Kremlin. And the question is - what did they do and who sent them? Well, a little thought - only the high-level military man with communications could receive armaments sent to Girkin from old storage depots, for example, a retired general of the Soviet Union. hi Well it is - to think. Well, I advise you to understand one thing: either the DPR is holding on to the Russian Federation and, in fact, to Governor Zakharchenko at the moment with the prospect of practical (but not yet legal) entry into the Russian Federation and all the ensuing pros and cons - humanitarian aid, military cooperation, protection of the north wind and integration into our economy. Or are you headed by the Girkins building xs that - democracy or an empire of any kind, but without us, without a military agency, without finance from the Russian Federation and protection, that is, YOURSELF. Either Girkin or the Russian Federation - something like that in my opinion. hi That is my personal opinion, formed from information from various sources. Absolutely not impose it on anyone. Well, about the alleged fact that the GDP sent Girkin to dill. Look at the level of preparation of the Crimean operation and what happened in the Donbass. Do you really think that the same person who carried out the bloodless annexation of Crimea, protected by the best Ukrainian military group at that time, and the one who started a mess in the Donbass - is the same person? Seriously?
                1. I am Russian
                  I am Russian 9 November 2015 19: 53 New
                  +4
                  Well, now a black box in the studio. Reshetnikov - served in the army, girkin served in the FSB before. That is, the structures are at least different. That is, two retired servicemen from different structures. If you aren’t in the know, then the Rescuers have retired since 2009. And if they worked for a couple in the Crimea for whom, then certainly not for the Kremlin. And the question is - what did they do and who sent them?


                  At the expense of Reshetnikov - in the course. The tactics of the annexation of Crimea were partly worked out in RISS (Russian Institute for Strategic Research), which is headed by Reshetnikov. And I am aware that they have extended the supply of weapons. Only you don’t understand, they would have started killing us all the same .. How many visitors were driven with sticks, not only in Crimea there was a "train of friendship".

                  The shooters in the Crimea were Aksenov's "protégé" and the commander of a special unit, they gathered Uropov's deputies of the Supreme Soviet to put Aksenov in the right place. You are not right about the Kremlin lol

                  What does it mean either Strelkov or the Russian Federation. New Russia was created and is being created with only one goal - to become part of Russia. Do not invent, I know better, saw with my own eyes how people in Lugansk went to protests and with what flags, and how the Russian anthem sang, not dill, but Russia.
                  And shooters. Under him, we fought, and did not sit in the trenches under regular shelling. Doesn't exist either ... or ...



                  You yourself know when the President’s petition was submitted to the Federation Council on the use of aircraft in Ukraine !!!! But then either frightened by sanctions, or something else (I don’t enter the immediate environment repeat ), while the war broke out and people began to die under shelling, the entry of troops was canceled. It is precisely that Russia did not come. sad
                2. I am Russian
                  I am Russian 9 November 2015 20: 12 New
                  +1
                  I have a question too. And not because of the Crimea they beat us like that ?? Maybe Strelkov is not to blame, but the annexation of Crimea ?? Still, two months have passed?
            2. ALEA IACTA EST
              ALEA IACTA EST 9 November 2015 21: 20 New
              -3
              Quote: g1v2
              Personally, I believe that Strelkov’s raid was organized by the States

              Not by the States, but by his ambitions. He wanted to "take a walk" in Donbass, and then return to Russia like Bonaparte from Egypt to France ...
            3. Uncle Joe
              Uncle Joe 9 November 2015 23: 46 New
              -1
              Quote: g1v2
              Personally, I believe that Strelkov’s raid was organized by the States
              You don’t think so, because you don’t have your own opinion in principle - the media think for you.


              g1v2 July 8, 2014 11:14
              About the fact that in Donetsk they sabotage Novorossia and merge Strelkov, I spoke for a long time. There was a lot of evidence that while Lugansk was being strengthened and cleaned up, nothing was being done in Donetsk. The DNI has a lot of equipment and weapons, but no one helped Strelkov. Ours along the way realized that everything was rotten in Donetsk and began to actively help only Lugansk, and after it became clear that Donetsk was still the city of Akhmetov, to negotiate with him. Moreover, the goal of independence of Donbass was not originally set. The goal was - federalization of the whole of Ukraine and its GDP was the one that pierced it. Akhmetov also wants federalization, as in Kiev his enemies are now. However, Strelkov and Brain are the supporters of the branch and their goals are different from the people of Akhmetov. If Strelkov can create a real New Russia, and not virtual, as it was until now, then ours will support him more powerfully. There was no point in sending serious weapons to the people of Akhmetov, and after the drain of the storming of the airport, where many volunteers from the Russian Federation died, they tried to send volunteers the same less. In general, the first thing to do is Strelkov and Bolotov agree on a common command and government, as well as headquarters and rear. Well, then it all depends on them, if there is success, there will be more help.

              g1v2 July 14, 2014 11:59
              It is not a matter of fear, but discipline. Discipline is the basis of any regular army and the key to successful databases. But modern Cossacks love Makhnovism, and they don’t like to follow orders. In general, a mess - I wanted to come, I wanted to go on vacation. Strelkov needs specialists and retired officers, and not just another Makhnovist gang. It’s a pity that the woman was so publicized and now the Ukrainians will laugh and shout that the separatist leaders are fleeing to Russia. I would not leave Cossack units together in Strelkov’s place, but scatter them over others in order to instill the concept of discipline.
              1. g1v2
                g1v2 10 November 2015 11: 57 New
                +1
                I'll tell you a secret - I don’t watch TV xs for how many years. If, somewhere, what I say coincides with what they say in the media, this is not bad. Information from people is quite limited, and so do I. What I said then was based on the information that I had then. However, after any event, over time, more and more information appears from various sources that change the point of view. I’m still not a stubborn ram and I try to independently assess the situation on the basis of the available data. If the new information refutes my point of view, then I am ready to change it. Then there was very little information and the point of view based on logic was such, now there is much more information - the point of view has become such. It is likely that some new pieces of information will appear tomorrow and everything will turn out completely wrong. Information is a mosaic and each new piece of the puzzle allows you to put together a picture and understand what is shown on it. And by the way, I am for the return of ALL UKRAINE AND 45 MILLION RUSSIAN POPULATION IN RUSSIA. But at the same time, this does not mean that I agree that it is necessary to send troops and go to Kiev with a funny hoot. hi
    2. Andrea
      Andrea 9 November 2015 08: 05 New
      +8
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      And why is this for Russia?
      It’s not for me to evaluate Putin’s actions.
      I will only express my opinion.
      Without introducing troops to Ukraine, we received:
      - all the same sanctions for the full program,
      a hostile state under its nose and it’s not Lithuania and Latvia, it’s much worse
      - huge economic losses due to breaking ties,
      And finally, most importantly, countless sacrifices.
      Unfortunately, I don’t know the motives on which it was decided not to send troops ... for sure, they outweighed all these considerations ...
      1. samara-58
        samara-58 9 November 2015 08: 31 New
        +4
        Not far-sighted. There have been similar situations in our history and the government has made similar decisions. (FER)
      2. Victor Kamenev
        9 November 2015 08: 34 New
        21
        These are Putin's theses, I showed in my article that they are being manipulated. We got a hostile state on the Maidan, and saved Crimea and Donbass from it. Russia received sanctions and other things for the fact that it began to oppose the policy of the Maidan of the West, not only in Ukraine, but also in Russia, informationally. The formal pretext is Crimea. In the case of the introduction of troops, there would be a war in Ukraine with the participation of the "NATO contingent" and a complete rupture of relations with Europe - feel the difference.
        1. Gardamir
          Gardamir 9 November 2015 08: 49 New
          13
          and saved Crimea and Donbass from him.
          Why only the Crimea and the Donbass. what's worse the rest? In the spring of 2014 Kharkov was ours. Now Bandera. About the war with NATO did their NATO chief tell you?
          To the Dnieper, this is all our land, but why do we go around our ears about Syria is a question. The Kremlin does not want to recognize the terrorist attack in Egypt
          1. Stas57
            Stas57 9 November 2015 08: 59 New
            24
            Quote: Gardamir
            spring 2014 Kharkov was ours. Now Bandera.

            Do not believe the Censor, Kharkov is very big, the pro-Russian sentiments have not disappeared, it’s just that it’s open to speak now, it’s very dangerous, the fight went underground,
            и кроме "бывших русских", скачущих сильнее самих украинцев, очень много тех кто за воссоеденение, за нас, грубо говоря.
            There is resistance!
            1. tomket
              tomket 9 November 2015 09: 16 New
              -10
              Quote: Stas57
              pro-Russian moods are still here

              Oh well...
            2. Siberian
              Siberian 9 November 2015 19: 25 New
              +7
              ПОсле бандеровской революции гыдности не хватило напора Харькову. Алексей Чалый (Крым) в интервью рассказал, что подъем был, перезвонились и договорились встретиться в Харькове и решить как действовать. "Мы сели на машины и поехали в Харьков. Приехали около 12 часов. А разговаривать не с кем". Харьковчане разошлись и все. И тогда Крым понял, что надежда - только на себя. И начали действовать САМИ. А дальше все пошло и прошло так, как пошло...
          2. SibSlavRus
            SibSlavRus 9 November 2015 09: 52 New
            20
            The newspaper “Top Secret” published an excerpt from the book “The Torch of New Russia” by Pavel Gubarev, in which he talks about the beginning of the armed confrontation in Donbass. Here is an interesting excerpt.
            LOST OPPORTUNITIES
            If at this moment Moscow had decided on the “Crimean option” in the Donbass, it would have been a resounding success. The local authorities did not have a will to resist. The Ukrainian Armed Forces of Ukraine had only 17 thousand combat forces. Even the Ukrainian special forces did not really know how to fight: the events in Konstantinovka will show it. Local police were ready to sell: cities could be borrowed for small - compared to the war - money. To surrender cities, the local "power" authorities requested from 50 to 200 thousand dollars. The riotous was negotiating, but the militia did not have this money anyway - they took the city by force. But at that moment - if it were really a pre-planned and well-thought-out operation of Moscow to buy up the regional elite, then, figuratively speaking, a donkey loaded with gold could take the whole Donbass. This is at least.
            For several million dollars it was possible to buy the police, the SBU, and the command of local units. They were not eager to fight. It could be done like in Iraq in 2003, when the Americans simply bought Hussein’s generals. Then there would have arisen not just the DNI and LC, but one Novorossia. With untouched industry, with working mines and its ports in Mariupol and Odessa, with hefty foreign exchange earnings, with undisturbed agriculture. There would be no hellish destruction, nor so many killed, crippled, refugee ousted. Such a New Russia quickly had its own army. And Kiev, deprived of the income of Donbass, instantly received the collapse of the state budget, and could not fight in an organized way.
            Now for this reason you can only sigh bitterly. All this is now lost. Now that so much blood has been spilled, Ukraine has received an army with combat experience, and ideological, motivated fighters, and internal rallying, and a thirst for revenge. Then we still did not know what lies ahead ”...

            The media reported that Pavel Gubarev was detained in St. Petersburg during the presentation of his book The Torch. The FSB accused Pavel Gubarev of illegally crossing the border, and detained him to clarify the circumstances. As it turned out later, Gubarev was released on a subscription and put a tracking bracelet on his leg for security reasons (there is a photo).

            IMHO: The Kremlin is annoying something cool.
            В отличие от Сирии, на Украине Кремль очень боится популярности Русского мира и его лидеров, на которых я бы лично, с радостью, обменял большую часть "кремлевского содержимого" (особенно пришедших на волне событий российского госпереворота 1991-93) и ГосДуры с СовФедом.

            For the ideas of New Russia bear the spirit of socialism. That's because of disagreements with the Liberoid Government and the leadership of the Russian Federation.
            1. tomket
              tomket 9 November 2015 10: 06 New
              +9
              Quote: SibSlavRus
              To surrender cities, the local "power" authorities asked from 50 to 200 thousand dollars.

              So who will share the hard-earned money?)))) In general, after the collapse of the Iraqi army, ten years passed by bribing the generals, and our almighty FSB could not even repeat such a tracing-paper. Although it may not want to ....
              1. Zhaman-Urus
                Zhaman-Urus 9 November 2015 13: 53 New
                +4
                Вообщето после развала и подкупа иракской армии весь мир получил ИГИЛ командование которого как раз из тех самых "подкупленных" офицеров. Вам бы хотелось получить такой "халифат" на границе с Ростовской облостью? Пусть даже православный и социалистический? Вы готовы содержать окупационые войска расположенные от Одессы до Донбаса? Вы готовы к отправке десятков тысяч солдат стреляющих в Украинцев и сотнях тысяч украинцев желающих убивать русских стоящих на их земле с оружием в руках.
            2. tolancop
              tolancop 9 November 2015 10: 20 New
              +7
              “The local militia was ready to be sold: cities could be taken for a little money - compared to the war. cities were taken by force. But at that moment - if it was really a pre-planned and well-thought-out operation of Moscow to buy up the regional elite, then, figuratively speaking, - a donkey laden with gold could take the whole Donbass ... "
              Наверное, купить указанное было бы можно. Весь вопрос в том, удалось бы удержать "покупку"... Или ее пришлось бы постоянно перекупать заново?

              "...Не было бы ни адских разрушений, ни стольких убитых, искалеченных, беженцев-выгонцев. У такой Новороссии быстро появлялась своя армия..." Well, and from what place in this case came the army of New Russia? It’s clear about the current one - she was born in the war. But about that hypothetical big question.

              1. Scoun
                Scoun 9 November 2015 10: 32 New
                14
                Quote: tolancop
                Наверное, купить указанное было бы можно. Весь вопрос в том, удалось бы удержать "покупку"... Или ее пришлось бы постоянно перекупать заново?

                My applause! It's like buying a poisonous viper.
                Well bought .. and what to do with it?
                Hold in hands? .. bad .. hands are busy,
                Release at home? Forever bitten walk.
                Give the neighbor? why then at all bought?

                It makes no sense to buy a sellable "essence" .. it is high time for the ruin to be cleansed of rye and scale ...
            3. igorka357
              igorka357 9 November 2015 13: 49 New
              +6
              Кароче простыми словами "Отстоял ты Русский Ванька нашу независимость ДНР-ЛНР спасибо...а теперь домой Ваня,домой иди спасибо" хекр вам уважаемый Губарев...ушлые вы все,если бы наши войска отстояли вашу независимость,то потом вы бы попросили независимости от нас,такой вот каламбур..в итоге имеем краину2.0 а за ней краину оригинал,и не известно что еще хуже!Хотели Русских солдат,надо было орать Путин мы Русские прими нас блудных в Россию,а не..Путин помоги отстоять независимость,от кого независимость то?И еще одно уважаемый товарисч Губарев...Москва и так добилась оглушительного успеха взяв Крым обратно в состав РФ!И кто интересно Киев финансировал после того как на Донбасс пришла война,если бы без доходов Донбасса Киев воевать не смог...Армия Новороссии только и появилась потому,что воевать мужичкам донбасским самим пришлось!
              Yes, shorter bullshit this torch ... written by the brow from the same opera "putinslil" !!!
            4. Yars
              Yars 9 November 2015 15: 26 New
              +2
              Quote: SibSlavRus
              The newspaper “Top Secret” published an excerpt from the book “The Torch of New Russia” by Pavel Gubarev, in which he talks about the beginning of the armed confrontation in Donbass. Here is an interesting excerpt.

              Pavel Gubarev wrote a book? Do you believe that he personally wrote it !? He's just a puppet of Akhmetov!
            5. the most important
              the most important 9 November 2015 16: 02 New
              +3
              Unfortunately, a part of the elite leaked, sold, scared, about ... a possible victory in Ukraine ...
            6. qQQQ
              qQQQ 9 November 2015 22: 45 New
              0
              Quote: SibSlavRus
              If at this moment Moscow had decided on the “Crimean option” in the Donbass, it would have been a resounding success.

              In the short term, yes, in the future, with obvious economic difficulties, a constant headache and the opinion of the overwhelming majority of the population that everything was better in Ukraine. It's just that the majority simply do not suspect the level of brainwashing against Russia for 23 years. All propaganda there worked on the principle - it's a shame to be Russian. People really there, well, probably pitied us for our "Russianness", and not very many people from the race of "great ukrov" wanted to go down to earth.
            7. The comment was deleted.
          3. tag
            tag 9 November 2015 14: 00 New
            +6
            Давайте говорить откровенно! Вся бадяга с присоединением Крыма и Севастополя - это ни что иное, как превентивный ход, дабы навсегда закрыть даже гипотетическую возможность размещения ВМС стран НАТО в Севастополе и всё! Хотя моё личное мнение, что даже и без этого Крым надо было забирать, при чём ещё в 1991 году, при разделе территорий, но нашему Эльцину было не до этого, его видимо "потненькая" на банкете после распила страны интересовала в большей степени!(...чтобы гореть ему в АДУ!!!) Вы что думаете, если бы все эти "демократические силы" в мире не понимали правоты России в этом вопросе мы бы отскочили только такими "недосанкциями" что ли?! А с Донбассом другое дело, ведь в чём разница, в Крыму народ сразу заявил о желании быть в составе РФ, а на юго-востоке Украины другое дело, они хотели суверинетета и федерализации, но никак не в состав России(это желание части населения ДНР и ЛНР) и ввод ВС РФ на эту территорию - вот это уже для всех была бы открытая интервенция!!! Так что надо чуть глубже смотреть на проблему..... Хотя, опять же лично я сам, только за возвращение исконно российских территорий и городов черноморского побережья и юго-востока в состав Российской Федерации!
        2. Andrea
          Andrea 9 November 2015 09: 13 New
          +4
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          In case of the introduction of troops, there would be a war in Ukraine with the participation of the "NATO contingent" and a complete break in relations with Europe - feel the difference.
          NATO will never "sign" for Ukraine, although there are rabid sub-American mongrels sitting there, they are probably still able to think ... and relations with Europe are already below the plinth, which is much worse.
          Once again I note that I do not blame everything that is happening now, and I think that at the moment everything is being done as it should, but I repeat, my opinion was that troops should be brought in.
          Put things in order, transplant Bandera trash, and politely leave.
          Europe and the United States would not even have time to blush with anger.
          1. Baikonur
            Baikonur 9 November 2015 09: 35 New
            +7
            NATO will never "sign" for Ukraine
            Wrong! NATO ALWAYS signs up for a war against Russia !!!
            And if in Ukraine, such as the forces of urkaina - so it is in general - a tasty morsel, a holiday would be for them!
            1. tomket
              tomket 9 November 2015 10: 08 New
              +5
              Quote: Baikonur
              NATO ALWAYS signs up for a war against Russia !!!

              NATO did not sign even when the Russian army was in deep decline. The events in Pristina showed this.
              1. kotvov
                kotvov 9 November 2015 19: 48 New
                0
                NATO did not sign even when the Russian army was in deep decline. The events in Pristina showed this. ,,
                but where did Kosovo come from? Direct clashes they (NATO) may not work, but it can spoil greatly.
            2. igorka357
              igorka357 9 November 2015 13: 52 New
              +3
              Always subscribes, but ... never comes ..))) !!!
          2. kotvov
            kotvov 9 November 2015 19: 46 New
            -2
            Restore order, transplant Bandera trash, and politely leave. ,,
            How do you imagine this? Will you be reminded of how many Banderas drove after the war? Were you ready to take 45 million to dependents? Are you ready to spit 50% in the back, accusing you of depriving your dream of lace European-integration panties?
          3. mAgs
            mAgs 12 November 2015 07: 59 New
            0
            Oh, comrades, the "pandora's box" is still open. Everyone will be afraid that Russia is organizing a Crimean scenario in a country where there is a Russian population. Yes, of course, Russians began to be oppressed in Ukraine, while it is not worth discarding the work of the Russian media covering oppression (nobody canceled the hybrid war), but the response to oppression turns out to be terrible, with blood, victims. Those who disagree may say that independence is forged this way, but they are cunning. Previously, independence was forged in this way, who now has such a forged independence? And when all this for an ordinary family living in the LPR / DPR ends, God knows ... Respectfully. hi
          4. The comment was deleted.
        3. the most important
          the most important 9 November 2015 09: 45 New
          +4
          Кто на Китай накладывает санкции??? Нет таких придурковатых стран! А всё от того, что Китай большой и сильный!!! А весь рев на Россию происходит от того, что "партнеры" не желают, что бы и Россия стала большой и сильной. А задачи России как раз противоположны желаниям "партнеров". Так зачем России слушать всех подряд??? Надо становиться большой и сильной! На сильных не бурчат, сильным угождают!Какая война с европой за Украину??? Европе всё одно, что Украина, что Тумба-юмба... Франция, Польша, Германия уже наобещали Януковичу золотые горы... Теперь России обещают... Нам необходима более жесткая внешняя политика! дожили, уже и Катар фактически воюет с Россией! Четыре года ждали в Сирии!!! Позор! Так вообще все союзники разбегутся...или свергнут всех и тогда будет полный диктат "партнеров". Украина - часть России и все это должны уяснить раз и навсегда!!!
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 9 November 2015 12: 15 New
            +6
            Quote: the most important
            And all from the fact that China is big and strong !!!

            Not therefore. Who will chop the chicken that lays the golden eggs? China understands the same thing, but it also understands that the entire Chinese economy is export-oriented, and sanctions will be reflected primarily in it. So they took a wait and see attitude, neither ours nor yours.
        4. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 9 November 2015 12: 06 New
          +8
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          We received a hostile state on the Maidan, and saved Crimea and Donbass from it.

          Only Crimea. There are no prerequisites for at least the Abkhazian scenario. Kharkiv, Odessa and Mariupol, we pros..li.
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          In case of the introduction of troops, there would be a war in Ukraine with the participation of the "NATO contingent" and a complete break in relations with Europe - feel the difference.

          Yeah, it's kind of like a Ukrainian break-up - they brand us enemies, but they ask for a discount on gas. Victor, you in the article do not mention the presence of legitimacy of the introduction of troops into the territory of Ukraine, but it does exist. The troops could be brought in on the basis of the statement of the LEGITIMATE president Yanukovych, and ONLY to ensure a federal referendum. And only along the Dnieper. And NATO would not have jerked, the cause of the egg is not worth it. hi
        5. bayard
          bayard 9 November 2015 13: 43 New
          +1
          I’ll add from myself, Victor, that a war on the territory of Ukraine would lead to technological disasters of an unprecedented scale: nuclear power plants. chemical plants, hydroelectric power stations of the Dnieper cascade ... and the factor of readiness for a big war in 2014. Girkin completely disavowed himself with his activity because such obstinacy of a ram in obvious things is at least alarming.
          1. DEMENTIY
            DEMENTIY 9 November 2015 15: 03 New
            +1
            Quote: bayard
            I’ll add from myself, Victor, that a war on the territory of Ukraine would lead to technological disasters of an unprecedented scale ...


            And how many technological accidents happened in Crimea in the process of t.s. posting?
            1. tomket
              tomket 9 November 2015 15: 10 New
              +1
              Quote: DEMENTIY
              And how many technological accidents happened in Crimea in the process of t.s. posting?

              And even against Russia in Ukraine would have risen elements and the Galactic Commonwealth !!!!
              1. DEMENTIY
                DEMENTIY 9 November 2015 15: 24 New
                +3
                Quote: tomket
                And even against Russia in Ukraine would have risen elements and the Galactic Commonwealth !!!!


                I thought so! Reptilians just waited!
                А если серьёзно, то после Сирии (территории извечной "Большой игры"!) все эти разговоры про третью мировую просто смешны.
                But you can understand people (in the Kremlin) of course - that Ukrainian failure must be justified somehow ...
                1. tomket
                  tomket 9 November 2015 15: 32 New
                  +2
                  Quote: DEMENTIY
                  Reptilians just waited!

                  There, until the last moment, they wanted to send volunteer divisions "chameleon" and "lake frog" to Ukraine.
                  Quote: DEMENTIY
                  А если серьёзно, то после Сирии (территории извечной "Большой игры"!) все эти разговоры про третью мировую просто смешны.

                  Суицид в планы американцев не входит. На то и "Большая игра" , что бы играть чужими руками на поле третьих стран.
                  Quote: DEMENTIY
                  But you can understand people (in the Kremlin) of course - that Ukrainian failure must be justified somehow ...

                  You just give free rein, and the people will convince themselves. As with Serdyukov for example. If during UDL Vasilyeva about the conspiracy theory of CCP - Serdyukov chuckled ironically, now it is almost the light in the window.
                  1. DEMENTIY
                    DEMENTIY 9 November 2015 15: 38 New
                    0
                    Quote: tomket
                    You just give free rein, and the people will convince themselves.


                    Now Alexander will write us in the Riflemen, Putin Slivs, liberals, etc. etc. and so forth laughing
                    1. tomket
                      tomket 9 November 2015 16: 22 New
                      +4
                      Quote: DEMENTIY
                      Now Alexander will write us in the Riflemen, Putin Slivs, liberals, etc. etc. and so forth

                      Yes, any fair criticism, for example Serdyukov on the hunt 08. and how the beginning of 08.08 was slammed. causes the frank anger of the people. -Serdyukov slammed the beginning of the war 08. - in response - Oh, you're a finished liberal! Yes, you know that everything was conceived so !!! Yes, that would take the West's eyes !!! ... and so on. In general, now is the golden time, let's say for the dissertation "Where did 4 million denunciations come from in the days of Stalin." Or "the formation of the cult of personality and the ideal of infallibility against the will of Stalin."
                      1. DEMENTIY
                        DEMENTIY 9 November 2015 16: 30 New
                        +1
                        Quote: tomket
                        Вообще сейчас золотое время скажем для диссертации"Откуда во времена Сталина появились 4 million denunciations". Или "формирование культа личности и идеала непогрешимости вопреки воли Сталина".


                        You're right! Taking off my hat! hi
        6. g1v2
          g1v2 9 November 2015 14: 17 New
          +2
          The party of Putin's leader does not matter what to blame, the main thing is whom. In the economy, in that the tricolor is still not hanging over Kiev, in that the plane crashed, in the fact that oil fell in price or in the fact that their house has a poor road. The main thing is to constantly throw Mr. servings on the fan. It is useless to argue with them - you cannot argue with logic. There will always be something in the internet that they will triumphantly pull out. In fact, they wait and rejoice at any of our failures in order to yell triumphantly - and I said that nothing will work! yes Fortunately, the dog barks, and the caravan moves on. While the drafters talk about zrad and about the fact that Serdyukov ruined the army, bam - the army became many times stronger than it was. They shout that our money will run out, bang external debts are reduced, and reserves and funds are growing. They shout that they threw Donbass, bam - the nm corps has more tanks than some armies in Europe, even there are subunits of reb. They shout that tomorrow the lessons will enter Donetsk, bam - they have been entering for a year and a half. wink So far, while the creamers are rolling tantrums, the people they smear with D-dom are working and doing business. hi
          1. the most important
            the most important 9 November 2015 16: 11 New
            +2
            It was promised 25 million new high-tech jobs. Where are they??? The bureaucrats are fattening, but beyond the MKAD they saw what was happening ???
          2. Gardamir
            Gardamir 9 November 2015 19: 58 New
            +3
            you can’t argue with logic
            This is your faith, against logic. what do you think? Raising the retirement age, Serdyukov is now the main pilot, soon Vasmlyeva will be given an important post, because she did not pass her own. By the way, if you are so off your knees. Well, anyone can humiliate my homeland, although take the noise with doping. Speaking of Serdyukov, how could an accountant improve the army? You really don’t know about the closure of military schools. hospitals decreasing military airfield?
        7. Yars
          Yars 9 November 2015 15: 24 New
          -1
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          These are Putin's theses, I showed in my article that they are being manipulated. We got a hostile state on the Maidan, and saved Crimea and Donbass from it. Russia received sanctions and other things for the fact that it began to oppose the policy of the Maidan of the West, not only in Ukraine, but also in Russia, informationally. The formal pretext is Crimea. In the case of the introduction of troops, there would be a war in Ukraine with the participation of the "NATO contingent" and a complete rupture of relations with Europe - feel the difference.

          and Strelkov is a Cossack sent by the West, and the "Russian world" is an analogue of Euromaidan only in Russia. After all, just listen to what Girkin is carrying and what the "Russian world" demands at their rallies - their goal is to overthrow Putin, and then go to war against Ukraine, dragging Russia into such a swamp where there is no way out, Russia will fall apart in it - this is all there is a plan west!
        8. I am Russian
          I am Russian 9 November 2015 18: 02 New
          +4
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          These are Putin's theses, I showed in my article that they are being manipulated. We got a hostile state on the Maidan, and saved Crimea and Donbass from it. Russia received sanctions and other things for the fact that it began to oppose the policy of the Maidan of the West, not only in Ukraine, but also in Russia, informationally. The formal pretext is Crimea. In the case of the introduction of troops, there would be a war in Ukraine with the participation of the "NATO contingent" and a complete rupture of relations with Europe - feel the difference.


          Well, yeah-hhh .... Especially Donbass .... Half cut ?? In what areas was the referendum held ??? And under whom are they (areas)?

          The war with NATO. And who told you that there is no war with NATO ???
      3. Oleg14774
        Oleg14774 9 November 2015 09: 03 New
        +6
        Quote: Andrea
        And finally, most importantly, countless sacrifices.

        And we didn’t ask ourselves the question only honestly. How many victims would have been if we had brought in troops. Hardly less, but more among Russians, yes! I think there is no need to argue here. And there could be no question of economic consequences, plus it would be a direct "intervention" and the same Germany would be officially against her people too, and these are completely different things!
        1. tomket
          tomket 9 November 2015 09: 20 New
          +8
          Quote: Oleg147741
          And they didn’t ask themselves the question honestly. How many victims would there be if we brought in troops.

          Are you bullying yourself again? If we really have such a combat-ready army as the media draw it, the victims would be counted by a few. First, moral superiority would have spoken.
          There would be no casualties among the pro-Russian population. The Ukrainian army has not yet been conquered. Have you seen a lot of victims in Crimea? Have you seen a lot of people wanting among Ukrainian soldiers to shoot at the Russians? The surrender of weapons in Slavyansk-all the same- READY TO FIGHT! And by the way I had to force for quite some time.
          1. Insurgent LC
            Insurgent LC 9 November 2015 10: 56 New
            13
            Yanukovosch’s official appeal on establishing constitutional order in connection with the coup d'état and in three four days Ukraine would be your plus a firm Russian position and an immediate investigation without delay until the evidence destroyed the execution on the Maidan and then to beat the state department with facts if you dare to open it, and so the time has passed the piglet has recognized everything now the cat will pull the cat for a long time
        2. Andrea
          Andrea 9 November 2015 09: 21 New
          +7
          Quote: Oleg147741
          And they didn’t ask themselves the question honestly. How many victims would there be if we brought in troops.
          And you did not ask yourself the question - how many victims would there be in Crimea, if Russia did not intervene? You don’t have to go far for an answer.
          1. tomket
            tomket 9 November 2015 09: 41 New
            +4
            Quote: Andrea
            You don’t have to go far for an answer

            Well yes. Kharkov with Mariupol at hand.
        3. andre
          andre 9 November 2015 09: 57 New
          +4
          Да и мне не очень бы хотелось,чтоб наши парни гибли на той войне. Вспоминаю "славные" мои 95-97 года. Это не компьютерные игры,где гибнут только враги!!!
      4. Vend
        Vend 9 November 2015 09: 20 New
        +8
        Quote: Andrea

        I will only express my opinion.
        Without introducing troops to Ukraine, we received:
        - all the same sanctions for the full program,
        a hostile state under its nose and it’s not Lithuania and Latvia, it’s much worse
        - huge economic losses due to breaking ties,
        And finally, most importantly, countless sacrifices.
        Unfortunately, I don’t know the motives on which it was decided not to send troops ... for sure, they outweighed all these considerations ...

        And what would we get by introducing troops?
        - sanctions
        - an excuse for the West that Russia is an aggressor (now it is sewn with white thread)
        - justification for NATO expansion and its preservation
        - Strengthening US hegemony
        - protracted gangster conflict with the Nazis
        - huge financial injections into the destroyed infrastructure of Ukraine
        - and the continuation of the established opinion about the "damned maskals"
        Maybe I missed something.
        1. Andrea
          Andrea 9 November 2015 09: 29 New
          +3
          Quote: Wend
          And what would we get by introducing troops?
          But all this is available now, except that then industry was not destroyed.
          I admire how fast Yatsenyuk and his team managed to ruin a rather decent economy.
          Just some geniuses.
          1. Vend
            Vend 9 November 2015 11: 33 New
            +4
            Quote: Andrea
            Quote: Wend
            And what would we get by introducing troops?
            But all this is available now, except that then industry was not destroyed.
            I admire how fast Yatsenyuk and his team managed to ruin a rather decent economy.
            Just some geniuses.

            Maybe I'm wrong, but the impression is that Ukraine is being deliberately destroyed. After all, the US already knows in advance that they will give it to Russia.
        2. Tra-ta-ta
          Tra-ta-ta 9 November 2015 09: 39 New
          +6
          And what would we get by introducing troops?
          Ukrainians themselves must figure out this shit ..
          Lazy, but the masses are ripening ..
          1. tomket
            tomket 9 November 2015 10: 10 New
            +4
            Quote: Tra-ta-ta
            Ukrainians themselves must figure out this shit.

            Maybe the Syrians themselves have to figure out this shit? On what basis is Russia considered a power? Based on her self-conceit?
            1. Tra-ta-ta
              Tra-ta-ta 9 November 2015 10: 50 New
              +2
              Maybe the Syrians should figure it out themselves ..
              They were waiting for us in Syria .., but in Ukraine so far the bulk of the people blame Moscow for everything ..
              They hadn’t been to us before so much .. Remember the 91 year when they sold normal food on cards in stores .. I was just in Nikolaev at the reception of the ship.
              So even then they confidently declared that they fed the entire Union, and they themselves were undernourished ..
              I don’t have many neighbors now that I’m stop ringing relatives in Ukraine .. It’s impossible to talk even with our peers who remember the Union .. And what about the youth ..?
              1. DEMENTIY
                DEMENTIY 9 November 2015 15: 33 New
                +6
                Quote: Tra-ta-ta
                In Syria, they were waiting for us ...


                In the Donbass are still waiting ...
                1. Tra-ta-ta
                  Tra-ta-ta 11 November 2015 00: 11 New
                  0
                  In the Donbass are still waiting ...
                  Dem, in the Donbass are not waiting, but are waiting (with us).
          2. DEMENTIY
            DEMENTIY 9 November 2015 15: 13 New
            -1
            Quote: Tra-ta-ta
            Ukrainians themselves must figure out this shit ...


            It was hard to argue with such an argument. It’s hard to Syria.
            What about letting the Syrians deal with theirs?
            Or do you think that 40 thousand bearded men per thousand kilometers are worse than 40 million banderlogs at hand?
            1. Tra-ta-ta
              Tra-ta-ta 11 November 2015 00: 05 New
              +1
              banderlog near by?
              Do not confuse cards and do not replace concepts ..
              Bandera is not 40 million, but Mabut 0,001 million will be typed ...
              But this is no longer for military operations, but for special services ..
        3. igorka357
          igorka357 9 November 2015 13: 57 New
          +1
          That's right, I painted beautifully right !!!
      5. c3r
        c3r 9 November 2015 19: 03 New
        0
        And where is the guarantee that by introducing troops we would not get all this and plus the need to conduct military and special operations against Bandera, the remnants of the Armed Forces and other evil spirits in the rear (by the scale of Chechnya you would nervously smoke). Besides, you probably did not study the issue of life in Crimea after joining. So in short: the amount of funding for 2015 alone is 90 billion rubles, but not much has changed, but why yes because there are about 10 major anti-corruption cases in Crimea, and small ones for 100. Again, the local population is no different homogeneity, there are people who are hidden, and some openly support Ukraine. This is a region that has independently expressed a desire to become part of Russia, and now imagine how much moral, material and human resources would have been spent on humanizing the rest of Ukraine, which is 20 times more than Crimea and there are much more dissatisfied with Russia there than in Crimea. I think that we would have been tight without World War I. And yet, I’m writing about Crimea not on the basis of an Internet, but on personal observation Niyah, because I’ve been living on this blessed land for more than a year and I’ve been working here for at least 5 years (and now imagine how long it would have been if we had entered the troops and conquered Ukraine) hi
      6. ALEA IACTA EST
        ALEA IACTA EST 9 November 2015 21: 24 New
        +1
        And they could get a war. And not the fact that in a foreign territory.
    3. alexej123
      alexej123 9 November 2015 09: 33 New
      11
      Everything is correct and logical for you. One "BUT" - how about people? Russian people? I understand VVP and I don't turn my tongue at him and I would not like to be in his place at that time. But there are OUR PEOPLE for whom RUSSIA is MOTHER.
      1. kotvov
        kotvov 9 November 2015 19: 56 New
        0
        But there are OUR PEOPLE for whom RUSSIA is MOTHER. ,,
        time, time will put everything in its place. sometimes it’s better to wait.
    4. twviewer
      twviewer 9 November 2015 11: 02 New
      +5
      inactivity in Ukraine for 20 years is now justified by the need \ impossibility to send troops? And would the support of the Russian movement not be in Russia's interests and could not resolve the situation? and who forced the junta to recognize?
      Threat one appointment as ambassador to Ukraine of a diplomat from God the Apothecary Zurabov is very significant
    5. Wanderer22
      Wanderer22 12 November 2015 18: 06 New
      0
      And the fact that there are 30-35 million of our people you live, you, they forgot up there? Or is it just a bridgehead and territory that interests you?
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 9 November 2015 07: 45 New
    +8
    The revolutionaries of “guides” should have studied Lenin; he was a great politician in the era of revolutions, not demolished monuments to him. He will take revenge ...... revenge, oh revenge ... do not understand, fools ..
    1. creak
      creak 9 November 2015 10: 07 New
      +7
      Quote: parusnik
      The revolutionaries of “guides” should have studied Lenin; he was a great politician in the era of revolutions, not demolished monuments to him. He will take revenge ... .... Revenge, oh, revenge ... they don’t understand, fools


      I am also against the demolition of monuments, including and to Lenin.
      However, history is a stubborn thing and it is now taking revenge on Lenin.
      The fact is, the mass demolition of the monuments erected before 1917 began precisely under Lenin. In the memoirs of one of Lenin’s closest associates, Bonch-Bruevich describes how, on May 1, 1918, a monument to the mayor of Moscow, V.K., was demolished by members of the Council of People's Commissars and the All-Russian Central Executive Committee. Sergei Alexandrovich, killed by a terrorist ...
      Later, the monuments to Alexander II and General Skobelev were demolished (and the national hero Skobelev did not please?
      It was true that it was noticed - if you shoot into the future with a pistol, it will shoot at you from a cannon ...
      Fighting the dead and monuments is an unworthy matter, no matter who commits it ...
      1. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 9 November 2015 10: 23 New
        +2
        Quote: ranger
        I am also against the demolition of monuments, including and to Lenin.

        Brother told. In Samara, near the railway station, a monument to the tsar was demolished. The statue was removed, but they could not destroy the pedestal. Then they put a statue of V.I. Lenin. Who is lifted today, I don’t know. wink
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 9 November 2015 12: 19 New
          +1
          Quote: There was a mammoth
          Then they put a statue of V.I. Lenin. Who is lifted today, I don’t know

          He is. I saw on Friday.
          1. dmb
            dmb 9 November 2015 14: 17 New
            +1
            And you, dear Victor, are not embarrassed that the monument to Nikolai "Palkin", who personified the reaction, remained, not to mention other tsars. And the monument to the tsarist general Ermolov in Grozny was demolished already in 1921 and restored in 1951. I'm not even talking about the monuments to the Tsar's field marshals Suvorov and Kutuzov. It is probably worth turning to the decision to demolish the monuments. It directly says: "Monuments erected in honor of the kings and their servants and not of interest from either the historical or artistic side, are subject to removal from the squares and streets and partly transferred to warehouses, partly using a utilitarian nature." So what to demolish and what not was determined by a commission. What great feats in the name of Russia were listed by the mayor of Moscow, hardly anyone will say, and Skobelev with even the same Ermolov can hardly be compared. But artistic value is a relative concept. Of course, there were excesses. So the monuments were demolished according to the principle. there are epaulettes, it means a white reptile. But claims about the lack of education of the people, again, should not be made to the Bolsheviks, but exclusively to the relatives of the Moscow mayor.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 9 November 2015 15: 23 New
              +2
              Quote: dmb
              Yes, and Skobelev with even the same Ermolov hardly compare

              Can’t you compare this general with Ermolov? belay
              1. dmb
                dmb 9 November 2015 16: 04 New
                -1
                Well, try, based on the benefits for the Fatherland. I do not say at all that the monument to him was erected unfairly, but you must admit that Yury Dolgoruky in the center of Moscow is more appropriate. And for the new government, the loyal tsar's servant, whom Skobelev was, was generally nonsense, not much correlated with the defense of the Motherland.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 9 November 2015 16: 17 New
                  +2
                  Quote: dmb
                  . And for the new government, the loyal royal servant, whom Skobelev was, in general, is nonsense, little correlated with the defense of the homeland.

                  He was demolished only because of the prefix to his name - White, although he did not belong to the white movement, because died in the 19th century. And he has no less merits for Russia than Yermolov. The revolutionaries were the first to fight the monuments, and are now reaping the benefits. I do not feel sorry for demolished monuments as a symbol of Lenin the revolutionary, I feel sorry for them as a symbol of JOINT HISTORY. It is this hypostasis of monuments that is now being destroyed. hi
                  1. dmb
                    dmb 10 November 2015 16: 05 New
                    0
                    В целом мысль (про Белый) логики не лишена, но хотелось бы вместо домыслов знать мотивацию решения о сносе тех, кто его принимал. По поводу "первыми". Стоит припомнить что до 1914 года город на Неве носил нынешнее название, а никак не Петроград. А уж древнюю столицу и Кремль, как только цари батюшки и царицы-матушки не перекраивали сообразно собственным прихотям, не сильно заботясь о историческом наследии.
                2. ALEA IACTA EST
                  ALEA IACTA EST 9 November 2015 21: 32 New
                  +2
                  Quote: dmb
                  little correlated with the defense of the homeland.

                  Protecting the interests of a country is no less significant than protecting its territory.
            2. ALEA IACTA EST
              ALEA IACTA EST 9 November 2015 21: 32 New
              +2
              Quote: dmb
              You can hardly compare Skobelev with even the same Ermolov.

              He presented Russia on a silver platter Central Asia!
    2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 9 November 2015 07: 55 New
    +4
    "The Minsk agreements, which secured the status of the DPR and LPR", these "Minsk agreements" between the party "Putin leaked" and the representatives of the EU, in fact - "bullshit", no one will ever fulfill them, and even more so they are nothing like that " not fixed. "
    1. Victor Kamenev
      9 November 2015 08: 44 New
      +4
      "Минск" закрепил перемирие! ДНР и ЛНР серьёзно укрепились как республики, это и есть статус, с которым придётся всем считаться, и который уже может признать Москва. При этом "Минск" не выполним для Киева, и это будет иметь последствия. Но об этом в следующих статьях.
      1. DEMENTIY
        DEMENTIY 9 November 2015 16: 18 New
        +3
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        Minsk has cemented a truce!


        I’ll probably record a Skype conversation with my brother - listen to the "truce" ...

        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        At the same time, Minsk is not feasible for Kiev, and this will have consequences.


        Look at the consequences for kuev! I am interested in the consequences for Russia. The consequences of living with a crazy neighbor! In the long run ...

        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        But more on that in the following articles.


        So write. About the long-term neighborhood.
    2. Oleg14774
      Oleg14774 9 November 2015 09: 04 New
      0
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      The Minsk agreements, which secured the status of the DPR and LPR ", these" Minsk agreements "between the party" Putin leaked "and the representatives of the EU, in fact -" bullshit ", no one will ever fulfill them, and even more so they are nothing like that" fixed ".

      Вообще-то они подписывались не для того чтобы "выполняться", а для того чтобы ими манипулировать!
  4. Same lech
    Same lech 9 November 2015 08: 12 New
    +8
    “As a result, we will have two destroyed economies: the Russian and Ukrainian,” argued Brzezinski, and was silent that the European economy would also be destroyed.

    For the sake of it all started ... WASHINGTON very often manages to fight with the wrong hands, achieving his goals.
  5. paxil
    paxil 9 November 2015 08: 13 New
    +3
    К Стрелкову-Гирькину сперва относился с некоторой симпатией после Славянска. Но потом его понесло в политику,начал вылазить со своими дурацкими прогнозами,честно говоря уже это начинает очень бесить когда наёмники лезут в политику.Каждый должен заниматься своим делом а не лезть на чужие грядки.Призывы ввести войска на Украину и всё такое, он что не понимает что матрасы вместе с каклами этого и добиваются уже полтора года чтобы втянуть Россию в этот конфликт? Короче идут лесом эти все прорицатели вместе с их партией "Путин слил".
    1. Johnny51
      Johnny51 9 November 2015 08: 26 New
      12
      In vain you consider Strelkov an ordinary mercenary ... He seems to be an ideological patriot-monarchist, and this is not the worst opposition to the ruling power. In any case, much more decent than our liberals who eat up "cookies" at the US Embassy! For me, it's much more pleasant to deal with him than with "rear-wheel drive" ...
      1. SibSlavRus
        SibSlavRus 9 November 2015 10: 11 New
        +1
        I am very impressed with the opinions of Pavel Darts (writer, very good analyst, author of several works in the dystopian genre) on his personal website (http://paveldarts.ru/):
        "... Who is he, why you need to listen to him.

        No doubt a man of business. A person who took a direct and direct part in the events in the Crimea and the Donbass. Not yap at all. A patriot and an imperial in the strongest sense - even despite the fact that Putin clearly and strongly dislikes him (he didn’t send troops, although everyone hoped that he continues to surround himself with liberoids (primarily in the Finnish economic sphere), In no case does he oppose him (and always emphasizes it!), because he understands perfectly well that “they do not change horses at the crossing” and at the time of the national crisis the people must rally around the Tsar (Secretary General, President). and redistribution of power is the worst thing that can happen now.

        To the personality of Strelkov.

        Not a strategist, good tactician and excellent military man. One could say that “he is not a military man” by profession - no, he’s exactly that military man. The military man is not the one who “received a military education”, such very often simply “officials from shoulder straps” who are unable to fight. A military man is a man born for war - like Zhukov, Budyonny, Chapaev, Voroshilov, Makhno, Stalin's marshals. Academy has nothing to do with it. Moreover, I met a well-founded opinion that “real high-level military personnel are made only by war”! It is extremely difficult, almost impossible, to make a real “military for war” out of “peacetime war”. War makes war (a modern example - Shamans).

        Since Strelkov is purely a tactician, he is not able to calculate all the consequences of the proposed "entry of troops", but he quite feels the situation at the tactical level ... "
    2. tomket
      tomket 9 November 2015 09: 22 New
      +7
      Quote: paxil
      to drag Russia into this conflict?

      Is Russia not in conflict? We have no refugees? There are no supplies of a military trade? Special forces and vacationers do not act on the side of the militia? Is there no external political and economic pressure on Russia?
    3. Buffalo
      Buffalo 9 November 2015 10: 36 New
      +3
      Are you sure you have a volume of information similar to that of Strelkov? You misspelled his last name, "expert"! "Girkin" !!!
  6. Ivan Slavyanin
    Ivan Slavyanin 9 November 2015 08: 17 New
    +3
    Girkin may be a good tactician, but as a strategist and statesman, he is completely nonexistent! Destined to be a field commander!
    1. tomket
      tomket 9 November 2015 09: 25 New
      +8
      Quote: Ivan Slavyanin
      Girkin may be a good tactician, but as a strategist and statesman, he is completely nonexistent! Destined to be a field commander!

      Have you visibly appreciated your long-standing political baggage earned in the halls of power? or is a good politician for you the one who openly lies with a smile on his face?
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 9 November 2015 12: 22 New
      +3
      Quote: Ivan Slavyanin
      Girkin may be a good tactician, but as a strategist and statesman, he is completely nonexistent! Destined to be a field commander!

      One hundred years ago, Stalin’s lot was the same — robbing mail vans.
    3. ALEA IACTA EST
      ALEA IACTA EST 9 November 2015 21: 38 New
      -1
      Quote: Ivan Slav
      Girkin may be a good tactician, but as a strategist and statesman, he is completely nonexistent! Destined to be a field commander!

      I agree, he does not have a place in politics.
      Его амбиции не соответствуют способностям, к тому же он слишком горяч и особой прозорливостью не блещет: одни его "прогнозы" наступления ВСУ чего стоят.
      1. tomket
        tomket 9 November 2015 21: 41 New
        +2
        Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
        : his "forecasts" of the APU offensive alone are worth something.

        His forecasts and Basurin's forecasts are practically the same.
        1. ALEA IACTA EST
          ALEA IACTA EST 9 November 2015 21: 54 New
          +1
          Something I have not heard from Basurin's speeches like "today or tomorrow dill will climb to Donetsk, everyone is khan, Putin has leaked everything, it's time to blame! 1111". request
          And Basurin does not meddle in domestic Russian affairs.
          1. tomket
            tomket 9 November 2015 21: 57 New
            +2
            Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
            "сегодня-завтра укроп полезет на Донецк,

            Around August, and almost every week about the impending offensive ...
  7. GYGOLA
    GYGOLA 9 November 2015 08: 51 New
    -1
    Putin's party is from resentment, annoyance. And what do you want Putin to bring in troops, show aggression, trample sovereignty, become the instigator of World War 3, to the delight of the United States? He is doing everything possible, costing little casualties. He stopped military operations in to a foreign country. It was necessary to think, when they were separated from Russia. Here you need to rise up. You didn’t go to war like Chechnya, just because you are a brotherly people, closer than Chechnya. a bone in the throat, a moment is needed.
    1. tomket
      tomket 9 November 2015 09: 27 New
      +4
      Quote: GYGOLA
      What would Putin bring in troops, show aggression, trample sovereignty, become the instigator of the 3 world, to the delight of the United States? Does he do everything possible, cost little casualties. He stopped military operations in a foreign country. It was necessary to think when it was separated from Russia.

      Is America ready to go into the heat of nuclear war over Russians in Ukraine? I don’t think ... but Russia is ready to fight for the Russians? it turned out that there is no .... Well, yes. There were a surprisingly few victims .... Actually, the population of the USSR voted in a referendum to preserve the Union. Only who was interested in their opinion?
      1. GYGOLA
        GYGOLA 9 November 2015 11: 21 New
        -1
        Example-Nato defends Ukraine and attacks Russia — whom do you turn into the hell of a nuclear war? Lithuania, France, England, or maybe Italy with Germany, Greece and Bulgaria, or all of Europe with America and Canada, with Australia? ... And Russia is ready fight for the citizens its countries ... A few thousand people are nothing compared to the state ...
        Only who was interested in their opinion?
        And now who is interested in their opinion? Before, it was necessary, it was ...
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 9 November 2015 12: 26 New
          +3
          Quote: GYGOLA
          -Nato defends Ukraine and attacks Russia, whom do you turn into the hell of a nuclear war? Lithuania, France, England, or maybe Italy and Germany ?.

          Do you seriously think that if Russia sent troops, then Europe would send its army? The maximum would be a raid similar to ours in Pristina. And only peacekeepers. But Ukraine along the Dnieper would be 100% pro-Russian.
          1. GYGOLA
            GYGOLA 9 November 2015 12: 34 New
            -2
            Я всерьёз думаю,что если-бы Россия ввела войска,то вся "шайка", не малая,признала-бы нас агрессором (они и так кричат Гитлер,т.е.Путин)А ответные меры одному богу известны.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 9 November 2015 13: 06 New
              +3
              Quote: GYGOLA
              would recognize us as an aggressor (they already shout Hitler, i.e.Putin)

              And now? The same yell. And in terms of aggression, the United States did not give a damn about the UN, starting an invasion of Yugoslavia and Iraq, Libya. Despite the fact that there were LEGITIMATE rulers. And a little grumbling, everyone swallowed, including us.
              1. GYGOLA
                GYGOLA 9 November 2015 13: 43 New
                -1
                Yes, I agree. Here and Crimea "swallowed", and if there is also Donbass, LPR, Odessa, Kharkov, the entire southeast, I think no one would "swallow" this. Help LPR and DPR, you can't quit the rest. Therefore, only Crimea. Although it seems to me that if something starts, then with shouts- "For Crimea." My opinion ...
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 9 November 2015 14: 09 New
                  +5
                  Quote: GYGOLA
                  , and if there is also Donbass, LPR, there is Odessa, Kharkov, the whole southeast, I think no one would "swallow this

                  Who now recalls Abkhazia with South Ossetia? And at the beginning of the stink it was ...
                  But Georgia had a closer relationship with the United States. It is difficult to give one hundred percent forecasts, but I think it would not be worse.
                  1. GYGOLA
                    GYGOLA 9 November 2015 14: 38 New
                    0
                    Yes, I forgot. I don’t know ... It turns out the spirit was not enough at the top. Convincing ... So it turns out Putinslill? But what is it like?
                    Nat1961 (1) SU Today, 13:50 ↑
                    Oh, if it were only a matter of conquering or not conquering Ukraine! We are talking about a huge piece of territory that would suck funds for restoration and huge resources to suppress the Bandera gangs throughout the west of Dill! Putin is well aware of what he would have gained in this case! With today's resource of the economy - 20 years of stagnation and decline in the standard of living of citizens! Now the standard of living is extremely low, and with the option "ukropiyanasha", we would fall into an even bigger hole! Putin plays competently calculating all the moves, including the state of the country's wallet! And now, be so kind as to restore the dill "Worldwide"! Well done Putin!
                    1. tomket
                      tomket 9 November 2015 14: 59 New
                      +4
                      Quote: GYGOLA
                      А сейчас, будьте добры восстанавливать укропию "Всемиром"! Молодец Путин!

                      Ha ha !!! America ahead of Europe runs to rebuild Ukraine!)
            2. SibSlavRus
              SibSlavRus 9 November 2015 14: 52 New
              +1
              Question: what is more important in the world of all, the irritant for Russia is nobody needs (and already dangerous) in the West, Ukraine or European wasteland covered with nuclear ash, where material and financial values ​​will no longer matter.
              And the states fall off somehow, because on another continent it is somehow safer.

              The NATO myth falls apart when words need to be confirmed by deeds.
              This is not a crowd of unfortunate Yugoslavia (with outdated air defense) to score, where even the ground operation did not have enough spirit. And then more than three months of daily massive attacks.
        2. SibSlavRus
          SibSlavRus 9 November 2015 14: 45 New
          +2
          In 2008, they did not allow our citizens to be destroyed with impunity. It is a pity that the aggressor’s capital was not touched.
          Foreshadowing your question, I’ll answer: one doesn’t see anything who want to test Russia for strength by military methods. And tryndet- do not turn coolies.
          1. GYGOLA
            GYGOLA 9 November 2015 14: 59 New
            0
            It is a pity that the aggressor’s capital was not touched.
            That, yes. In Odessa now.
            Russia cannot be tested for strength by military methods. And tryndet-do not turn coolies.
            Very optimistic, although it may be necessary ...
    2. KGB WATCH YOU
      KGB WATCH YOU 9 November 2015 11: 11 New
      +3
      Putin sent troops, showed aggression, trampled sovereignty


      Putin brought troops into the Crimea, blocked them Ukrainian military units (a colossal violation of international law) - is there a theory of 3 world?

      Putin sent troops to the Donbass (and without even admitting it as in the Crimea, that is, the Hague shines for him) T-72B3, captured paratroopers, captured GRU special forces soldiers, Shots and Vodniki in the LPR, Vintoreza and other riflemen, Cornets - is there already 4 world?

      Putin brought troops into Syria - officially legal, but here NATO scares us, and from the point of view of NATO B, Assad is a dictator and a very bad person in general. - began the 5th world?

      Therefore, leave all your excuses in the form of the Intergalactic War, NATO, "what should we do with the occupied Ukrainian cities" to the zombie, he keeps the electorate well, already 89,9%.
      1. GYGOLA
        GYGOLA 9 November 2015 11: 52 New
        0
        Normul, there will be nothing, I’ll go all the countries in the union to knock together the presidents (the former USSR) to clean the presidents. But only for the zomboyaschik .... Crimea swept, it’s not necessary to have patience. They saved a few million that they could ...
        Putin sent troops to the Donbass (and without even admitting it as in the Crimea, that is, The Hague shines for him for this) T-72B3, captured paratroopers, captured soldiers
        Volunteers, what could they do, we have nothing to do with it, how can you forbid them? We scold them, of course, even put several ... In Syria, we are legitimate, and in which case, Putin is no longer the aggressor. PS For the Crimea tribunal, it’s not shining, because. this is the will of the majority! Maybe this is the majority, under the tribunal?
        1. I am Russian
          I am Russian 9 November 2015 18: 12 New
          +1
          Quote: GYGOLA
          Normul, there will be nothing, I’ll go all the countries in the union to knock together the presidents (the former USSR) to clean the presidents. But only for the zomboyaschik .... Crimea swept, it’s not necessary to have patience. They saved a few million that they could ...
          Putin sent troops to the Donbass (and without even admitting it as in the Crimea, that is, The Hague shines for him for this) T-72B3, captured paratroopers, captured soldiers
          Volunteers, what could they do, we have nothing to do with it, how can you forbid them? We scold them, of course, even put several ... In Syria, we are legitimate, and in which case, Putin is no longer the aggressor. PS For the Crimea tribunal, it’s not shining, because. this is the will of the majority! Maybe this is the majority, under the tribunal?


          On the T-72B3? hijacked means ??

          Most just kill, cut.
  8. CONTROL
    CONTROL 9 November 2015 09: 02 New
    +6
    "...Путинслил..."А не надо было наливать "до краёв"! не понадобилось бы и "сливать"...
    Конфронтация России и Запада достигла опасных пределов, и дело здесь не только и не столько в Украине! Враг Украина, или не враг - время покажет, люди разберутся (несмотря на всю "гидность" укров добровольно резать себе горло тупой косой "нема желающих"...)И несмотря на родившуюся и сильно окрепшую в последнее время взаимную неприязнь - русским и украм вместе жить, как с нелюбимой жинкой...А куда деться - детей цельный выводок, свои опять же, не бросишь так вот просто; и алименты - что так, что эдак - но платить придётся! так лучше уж изредка, с зубовным скрипом, но пользовать "нелюбимую"...когда сама захочет! А хочет она - постоянно, без "месячных перерывов", как мы все видим...
    But if you "glance over" the retrospective - coupled with the present day - it will become almost obvious without glasses: the transfer of the civil war in Ukraine into a "sluggish conflict" through the Minsk agreements is the right decision!
    "Работа" ВКС в Сирии показала всему миру - Россия может! и могла бы и Украину, без особых усилий! Но...
    Termination of flights with Egypt - ??? Was there information about an impending terrorist attack? or was it carried out? or simply - an accident? ... And if a terrorist attack - is it ISIS? or ISIS is just a disguise, and agents of the Western special services, which are a dime a dozen in Egypt, Turkey, and in general in the region. you will not block it ... Egypt, followed by Turkey (as it seems ...): a joint operation of local "competent authorities" and Russian special services to identify and terminate activities ... damaging "international authority ... business ... citizens and guests ... "
    Demonstration - a). military power, "necessary and sufficient ... to protect interests ..." - and b). the ability of the special services to be legitimate !!! grounds with the knowledge and assistance of legal !!! relevant bodies and services of allied partners ... to suppress illegal ... even terrorist activities of "some representatives of some special services ... exceeded their powers ..." and te teh ...
    Option? or where? ...
  9. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 9 November 2015 09: 17 New
    +4
    Somehow imperceptibly, we formed this informal party, the banner of which was Igor Strelkov, the hero of the defense of Slavyansk from Bandera.
    Dear, name specifically what kind of party, its members and organizers are and why it Strelkov became its banner, so that he himself confirms this. And then it smells like a custom article, for denyuzhku.
  10. Yurmix
    Yurmix 9 November 2015 10: 04 New
    +4
    Quote: Victor Kamenev
    In case of the introduction of troops, there would be a war in Ukraine with the participation of the "NATO contingent" and a complete break in relations with Europe - feel the difference.

    Victor, there is no true statement for this as if events could develop, but I don’t really see the gap with the geyropa, for as such a gap it practically exists in the form of sanctions and assaults. Well, it’s just not necessary to talk about empty things. They didn’t refuse gas, there is no better alternative to the Russian one, and less pressing issues such as whether or not to be on the advice of geyropa are no problem.
  11. Buffalo
    Buffalo 9 November 2015 10: 32 New
    +2
    Viktor Kamenev, probably, Strelkov stepped on something, or something significant pinched the door. - Squeals and barks without stopping, Victor.
    A complete analogy with the Pug that barks at the Elephant. Apparently, Judas earns this.
  12. Mestny
    Mestny 9 November 2015 10: 35 New
    -2
    Quote: Andrea
    It’s not for me to evaluate Putin’s actions.
    I will only express my opinion.
    Without introducing troops to Ukraine, we received:
    - all the same sanctions for the full program,

    Etc.
    We would get the same thing, plus even more likely a full-scale war with NATO.
    Смогла бы Россия "потянуть" всё это? Сомневаюсь.
    Obviously, the possible consequences and real possibilities of Russia, both the army and the economy, were analyzed. And it was fortunately a decision was made to act as it is happening now, and not tank wedges and carpet bombing.

    There is generally an opinion that the Kiev coup is such a global game of some oligarchic clans of Ukraine and Russia with the participation of the United States of course (note the strange "softness" of the treatment of the Poroshenko regime by Russia. Who knows them there, these oligarchs. Maybe they are Crimea, how once and exchanged for something else ...
    But in this game, the United States made an attempt to finally resolve the Russian question through ardent participation in organizing a protest in southeastern Ukraine. Say, "brothers help, they are killing," and at the same time to clean up the most efficient Natsiks with the hands of the southeast and Russia, of course.
    But ... Russia did not enter the troops. And as soon as it finally became clear that Russia would not get involved in this matter in spite of any cries, the real world outlook of some heroes of New Russia immediately climbed out. And key figures, pay attention. It turned out (surprise!) That Russia is bad, the Russians betrayed everyone, and in general. A little more, and they will begin to curse us at every corner no worse than ukrov.

    Here is such a conspiracy thesis.
    1. tomket
      tomket 9 November 2015 10: 51 New
      +7
      Quote: Mestny
      plus, most likely, a full-scale war with NATO.

      Allegedly yes if ....
      Quote: Mestny
      Смогла бы Россия "потянуть" всё это? Сомневаюсь.

      Would NATO pull a nuclear strike?
      Quote: Mestny
      The possible consequences were obviously analyzed.

      After the dispersal of the division on the border with Ukraine, and then it was urgently restored ... I doubt that at the top they generally analyze something further tomorrow ...
      Quote: Mestny
      But in this game, the United States made an attempt to finally resolve the Russian question through ardent participation in organizing a protest in southeastern Ukraine. Say, "brothers help, they are killing," and at the same time to clean up the most efficient Natsiks with the hands of the southeast and Russia, of course.

      The final question is a nuclear strike, all that you listed earlier are the elements of the "big game" we lost.
      Quote: Mestny
      Russia will get involved in this matter, despite any screams,

      The cries of the murdered children, mothers, the elderly ....
      Quote: Mestny
      so right away the real worldview of some heroes of Novorossia crawled out.

      Well, how else ... when children and old people are killed before your eyes?
      Quote: Mestny
      that Russia is bad, Russians betrayed everyone, and in general

      Putin protect! Putin save! It was ? It was? Protected? Spas?
      1. GYGOLA
        GYGOLA 9 November 2015 12: 09 New
        0
        Would NATO pull a nuclear strike?
        For whom? Please specify.
        1. tomket
          tomket 9 November 2015 12: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: GYGOLA
          For whom? Please specify.

          Will you list all the capitals of the European Union? Or can it be limited to say London?
          1. GYGOLA
            GYGOLA 9 November 2015 12: 25 New
            0
            That is, in your opinion, for Donbas and the likely attack of NATO, you need to incinerate all the countries of the European Union? Yes, for such aggression ... however, an empty conversation of goodbye.
            1. tomket
              tomket 9 November 2015 12: 32 New
              +4
              Quote: GYGOLA
              , for Donbas and the likely attack of NATO you need to incinerate all the countries of the European Union?

              I tell you that an open clash with NATO leads to a nuclear conflict. And the prospect of this alignment is well understood in the West. If you are not ready to defend your compatriots by any means, then yes. goodbye...
          2. ALEA IACTA EST
            ALEA IACTA EST 9 November 2015 21: 42 New
            -1
            Would we pull a retaliatory strike?
    2. Buffalo
      Buffalo 9 November 2015 10: 54 New
      +3
      I do not know who you are or what you have done for Russia and New Russia. But, the fact that Strelkov is a real hero of Russia, I have no doubt. Moreover, Novorossia is not the first hot spot where he fought. Vitya Kamenev is a fan of Lenin, a sadist and a Russophobe who destroyed in Russia several million Russians, primarily the military, the nobility, merchants, breeders, clergy, doctors, workers, peasants, and the Cossacks. He was ready to destroy 2/3 of the population of Russia, for the sake of fulfilling his crazy idea of ​​the world revolution.
      I understand why he so hates Strelkov, professing Orthodoxy, patriotism and monarchism. - They are ideological enemies. Lenin, an agent of German intelligence, hated Russia and Russians, avenged his brother, a traitor and a terrorist. He was the same woman kept in the West as Nemtsov, Tyutyukin, Kasparov, Navalny.
      1. ALEA IACTA EST
        ALEA IACTA EST 9 November 2015 21: 48 New
        0
        Quote: Bison
        But, the fact that Strelkov is a real hero of Russia

        The same hero as Skosyrev ... lol
        He is an adventurer. He fought not for Russia, but out of his ambition - glory and power, he wanted ...
  13. runway
    runway 9 November 2015 10: 49 New
    12
    The statements are surprising: "Shooters are not a strategist, he is a tactician!"
    You might think that those who argue for this have long completed strategist courses themselves ....
    With the forces and means at the disposal of Strelkov, it was simply impossible to carry out a strategic operation to liberate Ukraine from neo-fascists.
    "Strelkov has no military education!" local experts say ...
    But the school of special operations Strelkov was successful. This is evidenced not only by an extract from his personal file, but also by his associates.
    As for the entry or withdrawal of troops, it was not only Strelkov who expected events to unfold according to the Crimean version. But promises remained promises, and now those who ask the question: "Why?" Are no longer only objectionable, but also dangerous. That is why a campaign has been launched to denigrate Strelkov. IMHO.
    1. Buffalo
      Buffalo 9 November 2015 10: 59 New
      +3
      Exactly!
      "Everyone imagines himself a strategist,
      Seeing the fight from the side ... " laughing
      1. Monetniy
        Monetniy 9 November 2015 11: 55 New
        +1
        Only from the outside and you can be a strategist, but from the inside it is already a tactical unit wink
  14. Dimon-chik-79
    Dimon-chik-79 9 November 2015 10: 59 New
    +4
    Yes, in the days of the USSR, it was impossible to imagine such a thing! What would the Yankees so hosted near the borders of the country in the zone of our interests! What prevented Americans from clicking on the nose less than five hundred kilometers from the capital of our country? It seems that there is a nuclear triad and the army is one of the strongest in the world. In this situation, it is unlikely that anyone would dare tuck in someone else's cabbage into someone else's garden located behind a very large puddle. So what makes it impossible to dictate your adamant will? How are we so dependent on the West?
  15. Buffalo
    Buffalo 9 November 2015 11: 08 New
    +5
    To all those who sincerely consider Strelkov (Girkin) an apostate, I want to recall the words of the wonderful Avar, Rasul Gamzatov.

    Take care of friends

    Know my friend, enmity and friendship price
    And a hasty trial do not sin.
    Anger at a friend, maybe instant,
    Pour out while not in a hurry.

    Maybe your friend hurried himself
    And you offended by chance.
    Guilty friend and obeyed -
    You do not remember him sin.

    People, we grow old and dilapidated,
    And with the passage of our years and days
    It's easier we lose our friends,
    Finding them is much more difficult.

    If the faithful horse hurt his leg,
    Suddenly stumbled, and then again,
    Do not blame him - blame the road
    And the horse does not hurry to change.

    People, I ask you, for God's sake,
    Do not be shy about your kindness.
    There are not so many friends on earth:
    Be afraid of losing friends.

    I adhered to others
    In weakness, seeing evil.
    How many friends have I left in my life,
    How many friends have left me.

    After it was all a lot.
    And it used to be on steep paths
    How I repented, how lacked
    I have lost my friends!

    And now I see you all thirsty,
    Once loved me
    I have not forgiven once
    Or not forgive me.

    Per. N. Grebneva
  16. 31rus
    31rus 9 November 2015 11: 11 New
    +7
    A very convenient phrase "Putin leaked", first of all for supporters of the official development of the situation, there is a wide field to blame any point of view for anything, but the essence remains the same, Russia has lost Ukraine for a long time. Why is it that "hurray-patriots" are sure that everyone will return, where is this from? Ukraine is under the most powerful influence and this will affect all relations with Russia, and only now, after 2 years, the Kremlin saw a real threat. No matter how further our relationship develops, the most important thing is that the West managed to "disunite the once united people", to break the economic, cultural ties. At least a "buffer zone" is being prepared, quite possibly a bridgehead against Russia. Ukraine is a failure of the Kremlin's policy, comparable to the collapse of the Warsaw Pact and the withdrawal from Europe. The consequences of this are only forming and are clearly not in favor of Russia
  17. 35lisment35
    35lisment35 9 November 2015 11: 35 New
    +7
    The media completely discredited Strelkov, although he says the right thing that Ukraine is part of Russia
  18. Buffalo
    Buffalo 9 November 2015 11: 51 New
    +9
    Kamenev here pushes today’s fashionable theory that the introduction of troops into Ukraine would entail serious problems - a conflict with NATO and with Ukrainian nationalists.
    I want to remind those who have a short memory of how the USSR fought with such sores.
    They simply fought - they sent troops into the capital, blocked and eliminated the leaders, and dispersed the crowd. - And that’s it!
    So it was in Hungary, in Czechoslovakia.
    But with Poland there was a bummer. - Hunchback didn't have enough spirit.
    Then the Baltics rained down. In Vilnius, they did not finish off the local Nazis, led by special services of the West, and now the infection has spread to Latvia and Estonia.
    We are all embarrassed to stain our hands with the blood of enemies, but they are not! They are impudent, each time.
    We would seize the Bandera leadership, immediately after the expulsion of Yanukovych, and the coup, destroy them, along with the traitor Yanukovych, and plant your people in Kiev, there wouldn’t be so many victims in the civil war and such destruction in the Donbass. Ukraine could feed itself and continue to supply its products to Russia. And the people would also be grateful to us, would not live as they are now - in poverty.
    1. Nat1961
      Nat1961 9 November 2015 13: 50 New
      -6
      Oh, if it were only a matter of conquering or not conquering Ukraine! We are talking about a huge piece of territory that would suck funds for restoration and huge resources to suppress the Bandera gangs throughout the west of Dill! Putin is well aware of what he would have gained in this case! With today's resource of the economy - 20 years of stagnation and decline in the standard of living of citizens! Now the standard of living is extremely low, and with the option "ukropiyanasha", we would fall into an even bigger hole! Putin plays competently calculating all the moves, including the state of the country's wallet! And now, be so kind as to restore the dill "Worldwide"! Well done Putin!
    2. ALEA IACTA EST
      ALEA IACTA EST 9 November 2015 21: 51 New
      0
      Quote: Bison
      how the USSR struggled with such sores.

      Russia is not the USSR, we no longer have such opportunities. Throwing divisions to the right and left is an inadmissible luxury ...
  19. Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 9 November 2015 11: 51 New
    -7
    Putinslill hang out in one of the topics, they carry Zyuganov in their arms and pray to Lenin. You only need to shout Putinslill.
  20. Monetniy
    Monetniy 9 November 2015 11: 51 New
    +8
    Contrary to the article, the result of comments: Putin leaked it all the same!
  21. mamont5
    mamont5 9 November 2015 11: 52 New
    -1
    Quote: Andrea
    Once again I note that I do not blame everything that is happening now, and I think that at the moment everything is being done as it should, but I repeat, my opinion was that troops should be brought in.

    I agree that now everything is being done as it should.
    I do not agree that it was necessary to send troops back then. And not because of a hypothetical war with NATO. We did not have full support even in the south-east of Ukraine, as in the Crimea. By introducing troops, we would have alienated many of those who were for us, just as now Ukraine, having sent troops to the LDNR, received a complete rejection in Novorossia and it is unlikely that, under the current "power" (junta), they can be reunited.
  22. Tambov Wolf
    Tambov Wolf 9 November 2015 12: 15 New
    12
    Again, the order went to Strelkov. That's what makes 10 rubles or more. Let's start from the very first. We will not take until 000. There was a complete mortality. Then it seems that they caught themselves, seeing that Russia was like amen, and the West wanted to spit on the traders with high Bell towers. Until 2000, how many years have you been playing the fool with Ukraine? Can you tell me what kind of work you did, who was appointed ambassador? Yes, the whole top was up to the lamp, until the loot for oil still somehow went. Then the American invasion began in Ukraine (we did not do anything there), the reformatting of the country from a friendly to an enemy began. We were sleeping again, and our comrades were "effective managers" They counted the grandmas. They counted, Ukraine gave a thump from Vorkuta. They began to flap their wings, but it was already late. Well, someone, not from the friends of the oligarchs and liberals of all Russia, said that with the seizure of Crimea we will have a complete priest, because. this peninsula is the control over the Black Sea. And then we will have to call the American cat "you", and we will swim with the permission of the State Department. Most likely someone from the military, who have the oath and service to the Motherland in the first place. We took Crimea. The pro-Russian people are on the rest of Ukraine perked up, under the cries of our everything that the Russians do not abandon their own and the Russian World - we are for him. And at this time they plant patriots under Article 2013 and do not put anyone else (the liberals are their own). Aspirations of the pro-Russian part of Ukraine covered with a copper basin There are shelling, killing children, old people, women. They shut up about our own people and about the World. Agreements were signed, imposed on us by the West (grandmothers are better than any kind of Russians, in some kind of Ukraine). The shelling continues, the dill are arming, and our authorities are hanging noodles on our ears with sweet speeches. Next, Syria. It is necessary. But four years ago, at least by a "military trade". write that there was either a terrorist attack, but e ISIS, and the Saudis' special services or was shot down by an Israeli missile, which held the Blue Sky exercises with air battles 282 km from the crash site. And what will our guarantor answer again, if with the Kursk he said she drowned, then here he will probably say, he fell. Solid noodles. Enjoy your lunch.
    1. GYGOLA
      GYGOLA 9 November 2015 14: 20 New
      -5
      A man with NTV, probably? Well, you have to hate your country so much. Why did the inhabitants of Ukraine not come to Kiev, for Yanukovych? Why did Putin have to defend him? I agree they yawned, they could help, maybe they did not appreciate the scale, which cannot be said about Syria. And about the loss of the plane and "Kursk" - Would it be easier for you if you ignite the war? Although, judging by the comments, then yes ... You need to see the marsh, although it's useless, we won't look at the Ukrainians, we will definitely not look at the number of all "revolutionaries". of every Tambov there is a night ...
      1. Tambov Wolf
        Tambov Wolf 9 November 2015 15: 49 New
        +4
        What do you have there, the uryakalschik, except for the brains that are not, I do not give a damn, they have not seen such. But what people like you, this is the most "swamp". Urya everyone whoever sat at the helm, but then, all you will have reptiles when they are thrown. We have already passed this when you were not in the project yet. Such as you shouted "Urya" to the Tsar, the Bolsheviks, then Gorbachev, then Yeltsin, now Putin and people like you with a dance on coffins, your former "idols" were buried.
        1. GYGOLA
          GYGOLA 9 November 2015 16: 05 New
          0
          Why such confidence?
      2. Buffalo
        Buffalo 10 November 2015 15: 15 New
        0
        Take a chance with a group of night and you run into a group of Tambov comrades. I am one of them.
    2. DEMENTIY
      DEMENTIY 9 November 2015 21: 06 New
      +2
      Quote: Tambov Wolf
      That's what 10 000 rub and more does.


      From the Soul! good hi
  23. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 9 November 2015 12: 48 New
    +9
    An alternative "Putinslil", allegedly under the leadership of Strelkov, we have "Cunningplan", allegedly under the leadership of Kurginyan. Why "Tricky Plan" is better than "Putinslil" I absolutely do not understand. Two flocks of rams are butting in the meadow, which of them is the cooler, and the shepherd sharpens a knife and smiles - everyone will go to barbecues, except for the leaders. Some will bleat - "we knew it, but we did nothing," the second - "but what for us, we did everything we ordered." The result is a mountain of meat for dear partners.
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. Karabanov
    Karabanov 9 November 2015 15: 04 New
    +7
    I'm curious ... Is this your speculation, or do you really get information from the General Staff? I can’t presume to judge Putinslil, but there is more evidence of this.
    Why did they stick to Strelkov, find a whipping boy?
  26. alicante11
    alicante11 9 November 2015 15: 26 New
    +1
    I well remember the alarm that was poured in the air in the summer of 2014: in the media there was talk of a "big war", important "sources" were talking about it,


    Yes, in our techie, the boys who recovered from the army, then summons came and after visiting the military registration and enlistment office they were ordered not to leave the city.
  27. Turkir
    Turkir 9 November 2015 16: 22 New
    +4
    It would be nice, here, to recall such names as Bednov and Brain.
    Also, probably, the "wrong" were ...
  28. GYGOLA
    GYGOLA 9 November 2015 16: 51 New
    -1
    Мы удивляемся,что нас запад(сша,евросоюз) "критикует".У нас своих,в личном составе,власть,страну помоящих полно.Информационная война,или родину не любят,на кол.А может им платят за это,а?Тамбовский волк как думаешь?Демократия...Распустили.
  29. Peaceful
    Peaceful 9 November 2015 18: 19 New
    -4
    In Donetsk, there was such a ferment ... What is impossible to compare the situation with the Crimea. And Mr. Strelkov knows this .. That it was impossible to act as with the Crimea .... It would be a war and not in our favor ... And not Strelkov should judge Putin ....
    1. DEMENTIY
      DEMENTIY 9 November 2015 21: 20 New
      -1
      Quote: Peaceful
      There were such fermentations in Donetsk ...


      Donchanin !?
      1. tomket
        tomket 9 November 2015 21: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: Peaceful
        There were such fermentations in Donetsk ..

        Well, remember. The referendum is under bullets. Instead of "polite people" there were punishers behind them. You're right. In Crimea, a unique situation has developed for the expression of the will of the people in the form of the 20 thousandth contingent of the Russian Federation. Where are the Donetsk and Luhansk people. The fact that they began to defend the results of the referendum with arms in hand is not an argument for you. Did the Krymans survive many Grad attacks?
        Quote: DEMENTIY
        Donchanin !?

        Putin said so in the film "Crimea-Returning Home". He said so - a unique situation.
  30. trantor
    trantor 9 November 2015 19: 37 New
    +1
    To me, the Minsk agreements, which established the status of the DPR and LPR, resemble the “Brest Peace”, which Lenin called “obscene”, but a step in the right direction, because he foresaw the German revolution ...


    Someone "leaked" something there or "did not merge", but such analogies are not needed. Further information for reference:

    In March 1918, in Brest-Litovsk, a delegation led by Trotsky signed a peace treaty with Germany:
    - From the territory of Russia were rejected: Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, part of Belarus, Kara and Batumi regions (Caucasus).
    - The army and navy should have been demobilized;
    - The Black Sea Fleet was transferred to Germany and its allies;
    - Compensation for Germany in the amount of 6 billion marks and 500 million gold rubles;

    From 1613 to 1917, Russia survived about 40 wars. Not always won, but never lost territory, only gained. Not paid a penny of military compensation. The Bolsheviks, in order to maintain power, gave (there were no other reasons) a territory with a population of 56 million (1/3 of the total population) in which were:
    - 27% of farmland;
    - 26% of railways;
    - 33% of the textile industry;
    - 73% steel;
    - 89% of coal production;
    - 90% of sugar production;
    - factories and factories: 918 - textiles, 244 - chemicals, 615 - cellulose, 1673 - mechanical engineering;
    - 40% of workers lived.

    And all this is one step away from victory in the war. It is in the step. So there is no need to talk about "brilliant foresight", something else is visible here, but this is not a topic for comments to this article.
  31. Weaving
    Weaving 9 November 2015 20: 38 New
    +2
    The authorities have their own views on the situation, I am sure this is dictated by the possession of more information than we have, and a clear plan, thought out and repeatedly calculated.
  32. onix757
    onix757 9 November 2015 21: 00 New
    +1
    Everything is very simple. Real patriots began to distance themselves from power, as this bacchanalia of liberal / bourgeois ideas was tired of it under patriotic sauce.
  33. onix757
    onix757 9 November 2015 21: 09 New
    +2
    Although I am not a supporter of the monarchy, I nevertheless respect Strelkov. And no matter how hard the gentlemen from the party try to "hurray to Putin, Surkov, Medvedev, etc." denigrate Strelkov, everything will come of nothing. You will only smear yourself.
  34. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 9 November 2015 21: 17 New
    0
    Those whom you don’t feed with bread - let them wave your saber, have been, are and will always be.
    Suddenly, you won’t achieve much in politics; rather, you’ll just die ...
  35. Aleksiy
    Aleksiy 10 November 2015 02: 37 New
    +2
    Donbass was given for slaughter to the Zhidobandera and the Anglo-Saxons, so that they would reconcile with the annexation of Crimea by Russia. Killing tens of thousands of Russians in Ukraine, the Zhidobandera satisfies his hatred of everything Russian, trying to KILL Russia, even in its current territory. In addition, soon the Polish chickens will drive the Galitsians from the original Polish lions, while the Bandera must go somewhere else. And p.ed.do.s in Navara: slandering Ukraine, preparing a bridgehead for aggression against Russia, knocking out Russians every day. When Starikov and his ilk begin to procrastinate about the hopes of the inhabitants of Donbass 2014, it’s sickening to watch. People came out to protest with RUSSIAN flags, and that would become part of Russia, and not be any separate state. Naive Russian Ukrainians believed that if they did what the Crimeans did, or even more, then the RESULT would be the same, but no. Politics, it’s such a partnership, beeeee.
  36. rope
    rope 10 November 2015 12: 05 New
    0
    yes how dare you russian and chinese brothers forever