Who will be appointed guilty of the Egyptian tragedy and who will benefit from it?

Who will be appointed guilty of the Egyptian tragedy and who will benefit from it?



In fact, they don't wave their fists after the fight. This is folk wisdom in the rank of axioms. However, all such events have consequences that even we are not able to assess today.

Of course, the investigation will be, and there will be the perpetrators. The whole question is who. And what to do next.

At the moment, there are three main versions:

1. External influence.
2. Internal impact.
3. Technical failure of the aircraft.

After talking with people who are much better than me who understand everything that flies, we came to such conclusions.

1. External influence. This item is quite satisfied with the company "Kogalymavia", but the Egyptian authorities are absolutely not satisfied. We have removed this item from the agenda. The launch of a rocket capable of “getting” an aircraft from 10 thousands of meters overlooking is difficult. Yes, and the initial inspection of the wreckage did not show the presence of any traces of external exposure or fire.

2. Internal impact. That is, a terrorist attack. On the one hand, it is difficult to dismiss such a probability, on the other hand, even when the plane is undergoing preflight training, refueling, etc., these actions are under the control of the crew. Must be at least. And again, the survey of debris showed no signs of a fire in the cabin. And you will agree (I agreed with such arguments) that an explosion without a fire is a very rare matter. And an explosion with no trace of an explosion is even more so.

This version, we are also postponed. The bomb in the baggage also has a certain probability, but this could happen where control of the flight is so-so. But not at the international airport of the country, which is not enough, depends heavily on the tourist business, and even is in such a company around him, where only the lazy do not fight. It’s generally easier to find a place where it’s quiet. And fingers on one hand are enough to count.

3. Technical failure. Here is a wider choice of versions. Yes, this item does not suit first of all the management of Kogalymavia airline. Because according to our legislation, at least a criminal case is coming under the relevant article. For guidance. And this manual will go to great lengths to prove that the plane was all good. But...

However, there are many nuances. And in order to properly assess the likelihood of something, we will come from afar. That is, from the creation. Not the world, of course, but the plane. Because it was the plane that caused the tragedy in the first place.

For a start, I asked myself a question, but whose is this “Airbus”? It turned out that the American. The owner is International Lease Finance Corporation (ILFC), an American leasing company specializing in leasing, leasing and selling aircraft. Headquartered in Los Angeles.

Some sources say that this is an American-Irish company, but from Ireland there is only a semi-offshore registration. And the rest is in the USA.

This is a very large company. The first in terms of assets in the United States and the second in terms of the number of aircraft offered in the States. The company, like its like, works according to the following scheme: the plane is bought, and then rented to various airlines. During the life of one aircraft it has time to pass 5-6 companies. What happened to the person involved in our case. The plane managed to visit Lebanon, the Saudis, and Malaysia. And in 2012, I got into Kogalymavia.

Usually, when renting complex mechanisms, the owner guarantees his initial good condition. Unfortunately, the practice and rules of aviation international leasing were written by transnational banks and financial companies in their own interests.

According to the recommendations of IATA (International Air Transport Association), the majority of contracts for operational leasing (i.e. lease) of aircraft are concluded in such a way that the leasing company has no obligations at all in terms of the condition of the aircraft and its hidden defects.

"This implies that the lessee is obliged to accept the aircraft in the condition in which it is located during the inspection before buying or leasing, even if the aircraft is damaged or defective, without modification and without any explicit or implied warranty." Quote from the documents of this association.

In general, it turns out that you rent a plane and must pay for this rent. And the rest is your problem. In principle, what else can you expect from American companies that play by their own rules?

Today the situation is such that if the lessors succeed in “pushing” a defective aircraft to someone, then they will not bear any responsibility for the consequences. Moreover, provide the lessee with accurate information about stories aircraft, in general, is also not required.

This does not remove the responsibility of operating the aircraft, but still the scheme itself is frankly mean to the passengers.

By the way, the company ILFC itself does not have a very clear reputation. Relatives of the victims of plane crashes, which she leased, tried to sue her repeatedly, but without success. One such lawsuit is that the ILFC already had one major disaster in Sharm el-Sheikh: On January 3, Flash Airlines airliner Boeing 2004-737Q3 from the Red Sea, which leased a plane from the ILFC, crashed into the Red Sea near the coast. Killed all 8 passengers. Investigators from different countries could not reach a joint conclusion about the causes of the disaster. Opinions were divided between pilot error and technical malfunction of the aircraft. A California state court refused to consider the claims of the relatives of the victims to the ILFC.

"We don’t give up ours?" Obviously, do not pass.

So, whatever the results of the examination, the air traders from Los Angeles will not be punished. And it saddens no less than the fact that such aircraft, "competitive" and "modern and economical" in our airlines, are more than enough.

Let's go back to the Airbus. The plane is not old. But pretty "well-worn." And had already noted in the state of emergency. The aircraft was built in the 1997 year, and he received a “tail kick” in the 4 year of operation by the Lebanese airline MEA. It is logical that no one will be able to write off a broken aircraft after all 4 years of operation, but then the question arises whether it was repaired well, and whether subsequent operators knew that they were flying on an aircraft that has the risk of simply falling apart. the air.

Maybe they knew. That's why they tried to quickly get rid of him. Finally, he got to ours. And now, we have what we have.





The plane received a "tailstrake" - this is a blow from the tail section of the aircraft to the runway. Apparently, the aircraft underwent repairs after this incident. Repair in such cases is considered a difficult and expensive operation.

There are at least two confirmed cases in which improper repair of such damage led to the subsequent destruction of the aircraft in the air:

Japan Airlines Flight 123 - 12 August 1985 (520 dead);
China Airlines Flight 611 - 2002 year (224 dead).

In the aforementioned catastrophes, the investigators came to a definitive conclusion that the incorrectly repaired “tail-strip” was the cause of the disaster.

It can be considered proven that aircraft that survived a tail strike and did not receive adequate maintenance, can be destroyed in the air, which, in turn, can lead to accidents with human victims. Could Kogalymavia's plane suffer the same fate? Tailstrike in 2001, plus possible inadequate repairs and / or maintenance could have caused the plane to fall apart in the air.

Everything stated is quite vital.

Moreover, the experience of already occurring catastrophes shows that years may pass from the moment of improper repair of the aircraft to the subsequent accident, and the problem may go unnoticed with numerous routine checks that simply do not involve the search for such structural problems. And to say that it could well be in the United States, and we, somehow, the language does not turn.

The photographs of the wreckage of the "Airbus A321" show a more or less intact "tail", which seems to be separated from the aircraft. How this is vital and fair, of course, will show a consequence.









And one more thing that attracted the attention of the flight crew. Lack of stabilizer and rudders on the separated tail section. There is such a term for pilots, called "stabilizer shears". This is when the stabilizer fulfills the off-design mode. And then it is quite possible such an evolution of the aircraft, which may well lead to its destruction.

Plus joystick control system. The joystick is not a steering wheel, which you can at least try to hold. In a situation of emergency, the joystick has to be grabbed. In any case, the pilots had something to do in the last minutes of life. The evolution of the aircraft confirms this.

When the investigation is completed, whatever the results, the conclusions will have to be made. And after the conclusions comes the time for action.

1. It is necessary to urgently consider and legally adopt a ban on the purchase and rental of "broken" aircraft by Russian companies. The risk to the lives of passengers is not worth the discount with which such aircraft are offered on the market.

2. The most active way to do the real import substitution in the aviation sector. And not on paper, but in practice. Without buying new or "slightly used" Boeings and Airbuses, and Tu, Su, Elah.

Buying new Russian aircraft, not arguing about the imaginary inability to compete and economy. "Efficiency", rolled back into the pockets of procurement officials, is a tragedy. And the lives of Russians.

We, Russians, are worthy of flying aviahlam gone into oblivion. And left forever.
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  1. Andrea 4 November 2015 06: 18 New
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    All of the above is reasonable. I am also inclined to consider the cause of old injuries, but there is still a thought, sacrilegious of course, but I can’t get rid of it.
    Modern explosives are not immediately detected. A fire explosion may not cause. Subtle examinations, of course, will show everything.
    And if there is a terrorist attack, I think you should check the accounts of Ukrainian citizens who were on the plane.
    In the current economic situation and attitude towards Russia, this version has the right to life. ISIS + impoverished Svidomo hellish couple.
    1. Andrea 4 November 2015 06: 36 New
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      PS If you destroy the container under high pressure, there will be no traces of substances or fire and you can disguise it as a diver’s equipment.
      1. USSR 1971 4 November 2015 06: 52 New
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        I am inclined to the version about the technical condition. The thirst for profit as a sacrifice of security destroys people constantly. For merchants, an airplane is primarily a commodity and a means of earning, rather than an aircraft. In the Union, Aeroflot was the only state carrier with a domestic fleet of vehicles, so the approach was different. And here the money is primary. Remember the motor ship Bulgaria.
        100% is the result of the destruction of the domestic passenger aviation industry and the country's politics from the nineties.
        1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 08: 28 New
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          Quote: USSR 1971
          I am inclined to the version about the technical condition.

          When flying, the most dangerous are take-off and landing. There are very rare cases when a plane that has reached a train crashes. In short, until the reasons are established, there is nothing to guess about the reasons.
          1. USSR 1971 4 November 2015 09: 21 New
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            Of course, the conclusions are made by experts and specialists. Just at the time of climb, the processes of destruction of old cracks and other injuries that began ten minutes later could begin. I hope to establish the truth. Unfortunately, people cannot be returned.
            1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 09: 39 New
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              Quote: USSR 1971
              . It’s just that at the moment of climbing, the processes of destruction of old cracks and other damage could begin

              There was a fire on board! But what caused this is another question.
            2. bondarencko 5 November 2015 23: 16 New
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              Of course the case is terrible. But ... Here for some reason there is always BUT! Why does everyone suddenly roam to Egypt, the Turetschina, and other lands, and every year there is news of an accident with ours, attacks, or even similar disasters from everywhere. And still the rod, even when the war is near. And then we turn the snot on a fist and pay multimillion-dollar subsidies. By the way from OUR pockets. And no one will give birth to a thought, or maybe it would be better to invest these funds in the development of their own resorts, and even tour operators - practically pumping money out of the country. And there were no reverse injections due to foreign tourism to our country. THERE HERE NEEDS TO SEEK THE REASONS OF ALL OUR DISASTERS!
              1. igorka357 6 November 2015 05: 54 New
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                If you work in Kogalymavia it is possible from your pockets, but if you are a simple Russian then forgive me ... could you tell me what went out of your pocket in favor of the victims of the crash?
                1. lukewarm 6 November 2015 10: 02 New
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                  I think that the previous commentator had in mind payments to the families of the deceased. I don’t know where they are coming from. Most likely from the budget. And what then will be reimbursed by a soggy air, that the insurance company (probably the passengers were insured) - this is unknown to us. But the amounts are already named. This is paid by the state, that is, indirectly - we are with you. Although, I emphasize, groans about "our pockets" are inappropriate here. Even if you thought it’s better to keep silent.
                  1. igorka357 6 November 2015 16: 11 New
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                    The airline will not reimburse anything, the payments will be from the insurance company, if the resonant business is possible the state will also connect, but mainly from the budget only natural disasters, technological disasters, and negligence of rescue services! So I wrote to Bondarenko that personally, he had gone from his pocket and he couldn’t miss the bread, since he asked such a question! According to his ideas, I need to yell ... I won’t pay personal income tax, this money goes to the victims of air crashes and natural disasters, let the state help them .... These are the people just as this comrade Bondarchuk does not paint the nation, from time immemorial, "they buried and married the whole world" in Russia, Rusichs were united from this!
                2. Lenin 6 November 2015 23: 18 New
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                  The work of the Ministry of Emergency Situations and everything related to emergency rescue operations. This is certainly all out of the pocket of the Russians. not Kalymavia pays ..
              2. Valentine 6 November 2015 12: 06 New
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                The causes of all our troubles in the domestic aviation industry, or rather in its winding up for the sake of foreign manufacturing companies that simply removed their competitors from the aviation market, with claims to excessive engine noise, emissions of harmful components of jet fuel, etc., etc., that do not meet European standards. .. IL-86, beautiful, wide-body
                domestic, passenger aircraft, in 1993 was “hacked” by our European readers. If it weren’t for our “guardians” of cleanliness of the European sky, then these planes would line up buyers from all over the world - time does not stand still, and with them technical progress , so we urgently need to restore their production already
                on new technologies. Stop looking in your mouth
                Euroleth and the USA, where the question is about the national security of the country and its people.
            3. Lenin 6 November 2015 23: 13 New
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              I understand everything except one. If the company knew about the accident and repair, and knew that destruction was possible, then why they did not conduct a periodic inspection with a flaw detector for cracks, metal was tired. Is it technically impossible or just worth the money?
          2. igorka357 6 November 2015 05: 52 New
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            Specialists listened on TV in the first hours after the disaster, so you should at least get acquainted! Unfortunately, cases of falling from the train are not uncommon!
        2. Nikolay K 4 November 2015 09: 36 New
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          Yes, businessmen are guided by profit, it is their job. But people buy tickets. Do you think that after this disaster, the demand for cheap charter tours fell sharply? No matter how, fly as before. Business always offers what is in demand. And the financial situation of most people does not allow the use of new aircraft. Moreover, in our country the economic situation is such that the local tourism industry and air carriers are not competitive in world markets due to high lending rates. Anyway, the security problem is, first of all, the work of regulatory authorities. So the questions are not for greedy business, but for inefficient public policy
          1. perm23 5 November 2015 06: 09 New
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            What do you want to say that the cost of a ticket for a new plane and for an old plane is different. Well no . It is only with us this can be. It is only with us this can. And it’s not necessary to reduce everything to loans, and see how the directors of these companies do not save on themselves. A loved one does not take a limousine with an 18-year life. And about control, our business everywhere screams that it does not work well due to the fact that it controls a lot. So the security problem is primarily in the greedy and arrogant business, in the inhuman morality of the business and the absence of a real harsh punishment.
            1. Starley from the south 6 November 2015 00: 39 New
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              Yes, everything fell into a heap! And greedy officials, eager for kickbacks, seem to be all for the development of the domestic aviation industry, but things are not moving. There is only one reason - this is unprofitable for officials, there are no kickbacks, because everything is inhibited. Second, the legacy of the collapse of the 90's, when there was a deliberate destruction of the civil aviation industry. Third, big business, not only in our country, does not give a damn about everything except profit, because cheap (in the West, and not ours - kickbacks to officials) and used airplanes from Geyropa and the states. It so happened that business does not bear any responsibility for such things. The fourth, imperfect, if not h.r.e.new legislation in this area. Hence the conclusions on how to fix this.
          2. Starley from the south 6 November 2015 00: 28 New
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            Quote: Nikolai K
            So the questions are not for greedy business, but for inefficient public policy
            ... which is basically the same thing. One is closely related to the other.
          3. lukewarm 6 November 2015 10: 04 New
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            And in my opinion, greedy business and inefficient state policy are two sides of the same coin.
          4. Lenin 6 November 2015 23: 42 New
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            I agree, it’s partly our fault that we are buying tickets for such pimped ones. I THINK THIS SITUATION I CAN TRY TO CHANGE. Should be required to Komersant when buying a ticket on a plane provided by the passenger DECLARATION BY PLANE: YEAR, HOURS touch in the percentage of total service life (in fact, how much is left to LIVE aircraft to critical deterioration) Well necessarily indicate all the information about the accident and non-standard situations and especially with VICTIMS . I WOULD NOT BECOME BUYING A PLANE TICKET WITH A BAD HISTORY, SORRY I LIKE TO LIVE ANYTHING !!!
        3. Vadim237 4 November 2015 09: 56 New
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          I will be inclined to the version of a collision with a drone, especially at the crash site they found fragments of the aircraft not belonging to.
        4. Xsanchez 4 November 2015 13: 15 New
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          Again huckster ....
        5. karatau 5 November 2015 12: 42 New
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          Another news from the amblodrom which shows that the global media, including Russian ones, are hiding some critical circumstances!

          It turns out that Israel at the time of the crash of the Russian aircraft carried out the largest air defense maneuvers in its history, which ended only on November 3 and was called the “Blue Flag” “Blue Flag”, and the Russian plane fell only 20 km from the Israeli border!

          According to The Times of Israel, not only the Israeli Air Force and the Iron Dome air defense with a radius of up to 260 km from the Israeli border, but also the US Air Force, Greece, and Poland took part in the air defense exercises. The exercise “Blue Flag”, which is continuing through November 3, pits the Israeli Air Force, the United States Air Force, Greece's Hellenic Air Force and the Polish Air Force against a fictional enemy state, the captain in charge of all IAF exercises told The Times of Israel Thursday night. http: //www.timesofisrael.com/israel-hosts-its-largest-ever-international-air-for
          ce-exercise /
          - And this hidden fact significantly changes the matter! And the attempt to hide it is sharply alarming! At least the amblogger, the Jew himself, does not believe in such insidiousness of his fellow countrymen, says that it was possible that they shot down a Russian plane by mistake, well, as happened in America in 1995 with flight TBA 800 "" Did something "get away" from them and hit the Russian jetliner? That was the case with TWA 800, likely the case with MH370, and military accidents killing passengers jets are a little-reported fact of life! "- But he asks you to note that maneuvers were carried out on September 11 in the United States Air Defense! London 5 Police exercises were also held in July 2007. In Boston, during the marathon - ALSO! And during the downing of a German airliner in spring, there were also NATO air defense maneuvers!
        6. larand 6 November 2015 17: 48 New
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          Quote: USSR 1971
          I am inclined to the version about the technical condition.


          And I think that this is a “proposal” of the Russian Federation and personally the GDP to leave Syria and generally reduce activity in foreign policy.
      2. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 07: 22 New
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        1. External exposure. This item is quite suitable for Kogalymavia,
        And who in Russia is interested in what suits Kogalymavia?
        And again, a survey of the wreckage showed no signs of a fire in the cabin.
        There is no official data on this.
        . Yes, this item does not suit the management of Kogalymavia Airlines in the first place
        I repeat, And who in Russia is interested in what suits Kogalymavia?

        Back to the Airbus. The plane is not old.
        Trash!
        The joystick is not a helm that you can try to at least hold on to. The joystick in an emergency situation still needs to be grabbed
        On all fighters there are joysticks and at the same time, the overload on the fighters is much stronger. Will we replace the helms?
        1. It is urgent to consider and legislate a ban on the purchase and rental of broken aircraft by Russian companies. The risk to the lives of passengers is not worth the discount with which such aircraft are offered on the market.
        These small companies lease used planes. For example, Aeroflot has about 100 leased planes and all new ones.

        2. The most active way to deal with real import substitution in the aviation sector. And not on paper, but in practice. Not buying new or “slightly used” Boeings and Airbuses, but Tu, Su, Ila.

        Buying new Russian planes, without talking about the alleged inability to compete and profitability. "Efficiency" rolled into the pockets of procurement officials comes out of tragedy
        The slogan of Roma, look at the comments in the articles about the superjet, take it as you could. In general, the aircraft should be competitive, then the companies will buy it. An example of a superjet is the 100th they are buying. The silos and carcasses are not competing now. If you start producing such aircraft without paying attention to economy, then you will forget about the idea of ​​flying on airplanes, since the price of the ticket will be such that it’s easier to walk on foot and no subsidies from the state will help. You need to build new planes, but they must be better than their Western counterparts. Ultimately, this will be safety and flight availability.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 09: 20 New
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            Quote: parafoiler
            In the cockpits of modern Russian fighters are full-fledged aircraft control sticks (RUS)

            Ole, Ole, Ole, Ole
            1. WUA 518 4 November 2015 09: 56 New
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              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Ole, Ole, Ole, Ole
              1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 10: 26 New
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                Quote: WUA 518
                WUA 518

                Hi Sanya! Well dzhostik so what?
                1. WUA 518 4 November 2015 11: 01 New
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                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Well dzhostik so what?

                  San sidestick. After the disaster in Mezhdurechensk, it turned out that with the receipt of opposing commands, the aircraft’s computer control system (ABSU) cannot issue a control signal to the executive bodies. Roughly speaking, it hangs and the plane flies with tilted steering surfaces, at the last command from the system that controls them. So, to put it simply, if the commander pressed the control joystick left and down, and the right right and up, the computer system did not issue any control commands to the circuit of the executive control mechanisms of the aircraft, and he continued to fly with the authorities rejected in accordance with the last passed command.
                  And it must be assumed that the crew was in a stupor when they realized that the aircraft did not respond to their control. The Airbus-320 control system operates as follows - the system adds control signals from the handles. For example, if the left pilot gives the handle half away from himself, and the right pilot gives half away from himself, then the signals are added (according to a certain law) and on the rudders it turns out in the area of ​​full speed. If the left pulls towards itself, and the right pulls away with the same moves, then when adding signals of different signs, the sum is zero and the rudders remain in the same position. This is similar to if there were regular helms with a rigid connection - the result depends on the overpowering by any pilot. If one presses on himself and the other on himself with equal effort, the result is the same - zero! Here we get a similar "electronic overpowering." This is the first.
                  Second: on Airbus, the non-pilot pilot has no idea what is going on with the control - no information about the sidestick position. Now imagine that this happens during sharp evolutions and alternating overloads. I read that F-16s are taught from scratch, pilots who flew with traditional RUS do not retrain.
                  1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 11: 22 New
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                    Quote: WUA 518
                    San sidestick

                    Well, the essence is the same.
                    Quote: WUA 518
                    . This is similar to if there were regular helms with a rigid connection - the result depends on the overpowering by any pilot.

                    Sanya wasn’t quite like that. I looked at Boeing and its control features. When the aircraft was dumped in a tailspin and the pilot’s attempt to level the plane with the helm didn’t lead to anything. The peculiarity was that in this situation it was just necessary to release the helm, i.e. the airplane’s safety system duplicates the pilot and operates autonomously. But with pilot errors, the airplane’s control does not fulfill his commands.
                    1. WUA 518 4 November 2015 12: 04 New
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                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      I watched about Boeing and its management features.

                      Sasha, I also remember this video, the output from the tailspin on the simulator. It’s one thing when the pilot drives the plane to critical mode, then the system will work, and another when you get into this mode due to equipment failure. And what’s called an avalanche-like increase in the emergency when the penny fuse "flies", and then it started .....
                    2. patr 5 November 2015 10: 11 New
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                      Do you have vast experience in operating such aircraft ???
                  2. Cook 4 November 2015 12: 33 New
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                    Near Mezhdurechensk, the A-310 crashed, with a helm and normal, mechanical control wiring. A lack was recognized as the lack of alarm for disconnecting one channel of the autopilot, the alarm rang only when the complete shutdown of the AP. Only one pilot can control the side stick on the A320; to transfer control from one pilot to another, you must use the switch.
                  3. Bayonet 5 November 2015 04: 29 New
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                    Quote: WUA 518
                    If the left pulls towards itself, and the right pulls away with the same moves, then when adding signals of different signs, the sum is zero and the rudders remain in the same position.

                    It is strange that the system does not set a priority, for example, of a commander.
            2. NIKNN 4 November 2015 12: 37 New
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              Quote: parafoiler
              In the cockpits of modern Russian fighters are full-fledged aircraft control sticks (RUS)

              You do not need to compare these aircraft, although similar systems with a joystick are also used on fighter jets (though not with us). This system is very reliable. Repeated duplication, even in power supply (if all of the power is turned off in the aircraft, will be emergency-powered), control of such an aircraft without hydraulic systems (mechanically) is practically impossible, and even with mechanical duplication there was nothing to control, the steering planes (stabilizer and keel) fell separate from the cockpit.
        2. venaya 4 November 2015 09: 40 New
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          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          ... It is necessary to build new aircraft, but they must be better than their Western counterparts. Ultimately, this will be the safety and affordability of flights.

          You need to build - that's right. What criteria determine which aircraft is better? Is it really possible in principle? My proposal is simple: you need to build airplanes that can compete, first in the domestic market, and if you succeed, then simultaneously and tighten the monopolists in international markets. You need to start small, stride broadly, you can break something, it is impractical.
          1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 09: 46 New
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            Quote: venaya
            What criteria determine which aircraft is better?

            And you will forgive the machine for what signs determine whether they are good or bad. The plane is the same machine in fact.
            Quote: venaya
            you need to build airplanes that can compete, first in the domestic market, and if you succeed, then in parallel and squeeze the monopolists in international markets

            If the aircraft in the domestic market can compete with Boeings, then in the international market, it will be the same.
            Superjet 100 to help you hi
            1. venaya 4 November 2015 11: 56 New
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              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              And by what signs do you determine whether they are good or bad cars.
              If the aircraft in the domestic market can compete with Boeings, then in the international market, it will be the same.

              You have too loose ("liberal" in Latin, and possibly obscene) views. Practice and real life show that any country strives and really protects its own, domestic market. Yes, international agreements are trying to exclude this, but cunning politicians still find loopholes as these provisions on free trade are not very noticeable to circumvent. All this is noticeable when a careful examination of both the domestic legislation of the countries is so evident in real practice. If you do not notice this, then I am very surprised. winked
              1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 13: 08 New
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                Quote: venaya
                Practice and real life show that any country strives and really protects its own, domestic market

                Now, name the countries that the liners are building wink
                1. venaya 4 November 2015 13: 38 New
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                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Now, name the countries that the liners are building

                  Take for example the United States, too, is building. But in Germany and Japan, staff members fundamentally do not allow building anything aviation, they completely crushed it from the 45th, and they had a developed aviation industry, though now they are already obvious colonies. Here it is, the policy of monopolization. List all countries? There are so many of them, you won’t remember everything. The honored test pilot explained to me the problem in detail, there are a lot of things, little known.
            2. Susul 6 November 2015 10: 19 New
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              You will first get a license =)
              And then there will be an answer from antitrust police that your plane exceeds the required parameters - degrade
              Or the Airbus and Boeing directorate will sit with the commission and come up with the necessary chassis tread pattern ...

              Well and further - the main problems why the Russian planes do not fly:
              1. There is no Russian leasing. Either buy the plane immediately, on credit at 20%, or don’t buy at all.
              2. There is no service network. Boeing will bring you a new landing gear in 12 hours anywhere in the world, you will wait two months from the IL.
              3. There are no services, the same Boeing is being repaired in almost every aerodrome.
              4. There is no competitive engine. It is not sad, but in Russia there are no competitors to the RollsRoys engines. the new PD is only being tested and when it will not be clear yet, and imported engines impose restrictions on the service, and they may not be sold

              Solving these problems requires injecting a huge amount of money. And where to get them releasing 10 aircraft per year?
        3. ism_ek 4 November 2015 13: 10 New
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          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          These small companies lease used planes. For example, Aeroflot has about 100 leased planes and all new ones.

          First, how to count. Aeroflot transfers old planes to subsidiaries (State Customs Committee Russia, Orenburg Airlines, Don Avia, Aurora) The average age of aircraft in Aurora is 29 years old !!!!
          Secondly, Aeroflot is bankrupt. At the beginning of the year, Aeroflot's total debt (excluding subsidiaries) amounted to 293,1 billion rubles. (taking into account currency debts at the current exchange rate of 56,9 rubles / dollar).
          At the same time, the company's assets amount to 277,7 billion rubles.,
          ..............

          46% is short-term debt ...
          1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 13: 21 New
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            Quote: ism_ek
            Secondly, Aeroflot is bankrupt.

            Smile and wave smile
        4. intuzazist 5 November 2015 19: 57 New
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          Dear! Joystick and control stick are not the same !!!!!
        5. intuzazist 5 November 2015 19: 57 New
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          Dear! Joystick and control stick are not the same !!!!!
      3. Nikolay K 4 November 2015 09: 28 New
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        There was a fire in the back of the compartment; people burn 90%; surface bodies plus lacerations. And the author is still developing a version about air junk. On such rubbish the floor of the world flies, who is more victorious, and the plane fell with us.
      4. wartex 4 November 2015 11: 14 New
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        Accidents are not accidental! Personally, I do not believe that the plane took off more than ten years after the repair and suddenly fell apart. I don’t believe in the fact that a pilot with 20 years of experience could not notice the prerequisites that could portend this disaster. Why do you think Puchkov is knocking on the table and screaming -See through every inch of the desert! - Surely modern diversionary means are hard to detect.
        The catastrophe in Egypt is "great luck for our" Western partners. "
        If you want, this is another spit in the direction of Russia and the entire Russian people.
        The question is what to do if it turns out that it was a diversion?
      5. BEGA2015 5 November 2015 10: 43 New
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        According to today's report by German mass media, such as NDR, with reference to British and American sources, an explosion likely occurred on board the Russian liner.
        And also DWN: "Der Absturz der russischen Passagiermaschine über dem Sinai könnte nach Einschätzung der US-Behörden von einer Bombe der Dschihadistenmiliz Islamischer Staat (IS) verursacht worden sein. Dieses Szenario schmithermitchritte yrmitchethert schmithertrichtrichtricht der Nachrichtenagentur AFP in Washington "
        Translation: The crash of a Russian passenger airliner over Sinai, according to American services, could have occurred as a result of a bomb detonation established by jihadists of the Islamic State (IS). This scenario is "very likely," a senior US official said on Wednesday at the AFP news agency in Washington.
        According to other German sources, the Anglo-Saxons point to 7 facts confirming this version. One of them is the analysis of telephone conversations of Egyptian airport employees at the time of the preparation of the Russian airliner for the flight to St. Petersburg.
      6. Starley from the south 6 November 2015 00: 24 New
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        Quote: Andrea
        If you destroy the cylinder under high pressure, there will be no trace of substances or fire.

        But there will be an aircraft covering turned outward! And this will immediately notice, not even very experts.
      7. igorka357 6 November 2015 05: 50 New
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        For example, how to destroy a balloon with a high pressure do not tell me?
        1. Susul 6 November 2015 10: 22 New
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          pump it to the limit, and there hope for low pressure in the cargo compartment
    2. antikilller55 4 November 2015 06: 40 New
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      Russia now has too many “partners and friends” wishing it well and prosperity except for the citizens of the Ukranian and all can safely think bad. We are waiting for the results of the investigation.
    3. ancient 4 November 2015 11: 24 New
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      Quote: Andrea
      Everything stated is reasonable


      The article is very reasonable .. "in my opinion", put +! drinks

      But I do not agree on two points:

      1. This is where the author “pushes aside” the version where it excludes the possibility .. well, hereinafter, the pre-flight preparation and especially the “loading” of baggage and food .. It’s just never been there (on the African continent) .. you won’t see a BIGGER Nowhere ... "shove" you can .. at least ..... soldier especially when throwing luggage crying

      2. Now on the "stabilizer scissors." Strongly disagree .. the effect of "scissors" occurs only in the presence of differentiated stabilizers (because the flaps become "apart" and at critical angles), but this is preceded by a complete failure of the CSB or the failure of the "subchannels" in roll and pitch ... then yes, it will turn on the back in the blink of an eye or the failure of the stabilizer control drives or both for some reason), and the "burdocks" begin to "hang out then by themselves and the plane goes to the" buildup "(well, like a" progressive goat "when landing) with access to supercritical angles, overloads, etc.
      But if such a refusal occurred, then the first .. "imported Rita" would scream ... all the displays and lamps of the SORC would light up ... that is, there would be a "New Year tree" in the cockpit .. well and of course everything this is the "recorded" recorder.

      We must consult with reputable SSI and AR -518, especially since Sasha is now online drinks
      1. WUA 518 4 November 2015 11: 54 New
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        Quote: ancient
        Sasha is now online

        I wish you good health. About the so-called "scissors" of the stabilizer, I told Roman. I’ll explain what I meant, in no way pretending to be a conclusion, just an observation. Yes, “scissors” is a differential control system, but by that I meant that one of the stabilizers got into an emergency position and started working like an aileron in roll. this prompted a photo of the tail fragments, as you can see, the break line is almost on the frame, and there are no stabilizers themselves, part of the vertical tail.
        1. ancient 4 November 2015 12: 03 New
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          Quote: WUA 518
          but by that I meant that one of the stabilizers got into an emergency position and started working like an aileron along the roll. This led to a photo of the tail fragments, as you can see, the break line is almost on the frame, and the stabilizers themselves, part of the vertical tail, are missing.


          Hello, Sasha, +! drinks And even if you "judge" according to the "flight", then there was such a "longitudinal tale" that belay ... these are the pitch casts that should be .. (I’m not talking about attack angles), because after such "lengthy maneuvers", exit to the second mode ... "as a hello", with the subsequent transition to flutter recourse

          In short ... we must wait for the results of the "showdown" ... everything should be reflected there soldier
          1. WUA 518 4 November 2015 12: 11 New
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            Quote: ancient
            then there was such a "longitudinal tale",

            Two "throws" in height, and not very weak. Very similar to the "pickup".
          2. Turbo rabbit 4 November 2015 14: 45 New
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            Is there no mechanism for turning off the "scissors"? In the "citizens" and their design, I am not strong.
            And he caught flutter on a corkscrew. I lost speed, fell there and caught. Here is the tail of sovereignty and declared.
        2. Turbo rabbit 4 November 2015 14: 45 New
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          Is there no mechanism for turning off the "scissors"? In the "citizens" and their design, I am not strong.
          And he caught flutter on a corkscrew. I lost speed, fell there and caught. Here is the tail of sovereignty and declared.
        3. Walker 4 November 2015 22: 59 New
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          Expert read the air forum any of you there stuck on the very scissors
        4. The comment was deleted.
      2. FID
        FID 4 November 2015 14: 04 New
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        Quote: ancient
        We must consult with reputable SSI and AR -518, especially since Sasha is now online

        Greetings to both of you, colleagues! On this device, elevators, and not the stabilizer, could play the role of “scissors”, but I hardly think so ... With the Japanese Boeing, it painfully resembles ... The depressurization and failure of the HS, and very quickly, and the “watermelon” pouring very playfully down. With side sticks, pilots cannot straighten anything. Not without reason, at the “Bobby” helms remained ... Somehow, I think ...
    4. volot-voin 5 November 2015 13: 04 New
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      A great alternative to Boeing, Airbuses and other foreign air junk. http://www.tupolev.ru/grajdanskaya_aviatsiya
      http://www.ilyushin.org/aircrafts/passenger/
      Although kill, I don’t see any sense of saving on airplanes and paying for service abroad. It is beneficial only to the little huckster-huckster, harmful to our security and to the economy and industrial potential of the country.
    5. Rarahin 5 November 2015 15: 32 New
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      With the author "figured out" with paragraph two, strongly disagree.

      1. It was impossible to carry a bomb on board. It’s impossible and that’s it. Sat is very cool, you know.
      2. No explosion without fire. All. Dot. The expert said!

      The article is a minus.
      And bold.
    6. Lenin 6 November 2015 23: 08 New
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      I agree with you. I think the most profitable in this situation is to blame everything on the attack. In addition, the British and everyone suddenly sharply banned flights to Egypt, is not all this strange? In my opinion, they simply diligently bring us to the version of the attack.
      1. Lenin 7 November 2015 00: 06 New
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        Well, as expected, we are led to the version of the attack http://ria.ru/incidents/20151106/1315150065.html Так будет удобней всем.
        And one more link http://www.kp.ru/online/news/2214457/. But here’s what’s interesting in this situation, at the time, Kerry said that Russia “can see its falling planes in Syria” and therefore stupid thoughts that they didn’t succeed in Syria, so they recouped in Egypt.
  2. magician 4 November 2015 06: 38 New
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    Condolences. We are waiting for the results of the commission.
  3. veteran66 4 November 2015 06: 46 New
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    "Profitability, rolled into the pockets of procurement officials, comes out of tragedy. And the lives of Russians."
    This is the most correct conclusion in general, and not only applicable to this disaster.
  4. Good cat 4 November 2015 06: 47 New
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    You need to fly on your liners, stop collecting rubbish all over the world!
    1. almamatkulov. 79 4 November 2015 07: 09 New
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      I go to work in the countryside in my native PAZik, so one winter morning the flight in the dark went after heavy snow, equipped with a trainee driver who did not know the route and was generally not local, without a conductor, and even the gears did not switch . The road forgives a lot, but the air does not. If there is a mess around the country, then such sad news will soon become the norm. They have already become.
    2. Bayonet 5 November 2015 04: 38 New
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      Quote: Good cat
      You need to fly on your liners, stop collecting rubbish all over the world!

      This "trash" was only 18 years old, normal age. Do you know how old the domestic airplanes, which are still in full operation? 30 year old can be easily found.
  5. rotmistr60 4 November 2015 07: 02 New
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    Isn’t it easier to wait for the results of the investigation, and only then to discuss and reason? Initially, in the media, all the arrows are transferred to the airline, which already suffers not only financial, but also image losses. And if in the end it turns out that the attack was the cause of the disaster? Companies still do not launder. The fact that in civil aviation we have a complete blockage has long been known and everyone who needs to know this. But as usual, the question arises sharply after another disaster.
    1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 07: 49 New
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      Quote: rotmistr60
      It’s not easier to wait for the results of the investigation.

      Quote: wizard
      We are waiting for the results of the commission.

      Quote: antikilller55
      We are waiting for the results of the investigation.

      The most reasonable thing is to wait for conclusions.
      1. Armored optimist 4 November 2015 07: 59 New
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        According to the Malaysian 777th, we are all waiting.
        1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 08: 06 New
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          Quote: armored optimist
          According to the Malaysian 777th, we are all waiting.

          You will learn the truth about Malaysisk in 777 years ... in 20. And our conclusions will be published very soon on our plane. There is no politics, because everything will be quick and open.
          1. venaya 4 November 2015 11: 16 New
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            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            ... conclusions about our aircraft will be published very soon. There is no politics, because everything will be quick and open.

            If this were an accident, then yes, there would be no politics. And who said that in the affirmative? Why draw such hasty conclusions? We will wait for the answers and conclusions of the commission, but for now we have the right and the opportunity to express our own opinions. Personally, I am sure that there are more politicians here than we would all like, this is my opinion, and I am ready to defend it.
          2. Bekas1967 4 November 2015 11: 39 New
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            Politics is fucking up here! Egypt from the very beginning shouted that the versions of the explosions were untenable, that they couldn’t bring down either, that the crew talked about problems ..... asked for a landing .... Do you believe them? They will come to tourism, if it turns out that there was no proper control during the maintenance of H. All airlines are already flying around Sev.Sinai. At the moment, there is an approval of the official version !!! approval. Where the recordings of the negotiations of the pilots ??? is this a secret? Cannot be laid out ??? and many questions will disappear! But for those who are not yet aware: there is a war ...
    2. venaya 4 November 2015 09: 46 New
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      Quote: rotmistr60
      And if in the end it turns out that the attack was the cause of the disaster? Companies still do not launder.

      Maybe one of the tasks was to prevent our company from laundering. This will already be beneficial to the customers of this disaster, and our task is to calculate the one to whom it was beneficial. So, I think we can deal with such disasters.
      PS: "wait for conclusions"it is impractical, since the whole press is full of speculation, and it is precisely with this that we must fight. Sitting in an ostrich pose: not the best solution, can also cost a lot.
  6. Armored optimist 4 November 2015 07: 58 New
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    In my opinion, the time has come for the competent authorities to make out the transistor avionics of one watermelon and one bobik. Bitmap software. And finally, find the bookmarks that are there without a doubt, and reveal them to the world. If this is done, Airbus and Boeing will not sell more than a single aircraft. That would be sanctions!
    And then, you know, only Hollande and Merkel flew to Putin - the next day (or after a couple of days, it doesn’t matter) a crazy pilot drives an airbus uphill, only Egypt became friends with Russia, said that he would put Russian equipment and helicopters on the Mistral, as another airbus is falling apart in the sky. Add here the 777th, one foolishly crossed into Antarctica, the other turned right under Buka.
    Something too many mysterious disasters is becoming in the world.
    1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 08: 09 New
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      Quote: armored optimist
      Something too many mysterious disasters is becoming in the world.

      Another Malaysian side disappeared in the Pacific archipelago. Another side from France disappeared in the Atlantic. How could I drag politics here?
    2. goblin xnumx 7 November 2015 01: 25 New
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      the tractor on the strip, too, let them sort it out for bookmarks, well, the one that the head plane totally stopped on takeoff
  7. Michael_59 4 November 2015 08: 01 New
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    Quote: AUTHOR
    inspection of the wreckage showed no signs of fire in the cabin

    1. Only the front of the passenger compartment was not affected by the fire.
    2. There was a fire, but could have occurred outside the cabin. In the luggage compartments, for example.


    1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 08: 10 New
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      Quote: Michael_59
      2. Fire could have occurred outside the passenger compartment. In the luggage compartments, for example.

      The photo shows soot from smoke.
      1. Michael_59 4 November 2015 08: 55 New
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        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        soot from smoke is visible.

        That's right, we see that in the compartment for the emergency ladder, located under the door, there was a fire. The smoke from which came out from under the hatch. And it is clear that this was burning in the air, and not on the ground.
        1. science fiction writer 4 November 2015 10: 17 New
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          1. Only the front of the passenger compartment was not affected by the fire.
          2. There was a fire, but could have occurred outside the cabin. In the luggage compartments, for example.

          That's right, we see that in the compartment for the emergency ladder, located under the door, there was a fire. The smoke from which came out from under the hatch. And it is clear that this was burning in the air, and not on the ground.

          Who are you from yourself reprimanded !!!! ?????
          20 minutes of flight of fuel on board to the eyeballs, the stump is clear that this fuel burned during a crash, and here already from the photo what, where and when it burned installed fool
          1. Michael_59 4 November 2015 12: 13 New
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            I ignore your emotional outburst. That's about the stump you are good, timely.
        2. Walker 4 November 2015 23: 13 New
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          this part was where everything burned i.e. front part below
      2. WUA 518 4 November 2015 09: 52 New
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        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        The photo shows soot from smoke.

        Hi Sasha, these are the debris. Located next to the fire on the ground.
        1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 10: 28 New
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          Quote: WUA 518
          Located near the fire on the ground

          Well, clearly, it means you need to wait, and not to build the version.
        2. Michael_59 4 November 2015 12: 16 New
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          Quote: WUA 518
          these fragments


          This is the main part of the aircraft - the fuselage without a tail and wings. Lies "on the back", the chassis is not let out.
          1. WUA 518 4 November 2015 12: 31 New
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            Quote: Michael_59
            Lies "on the back", the chassis is not let out.

            Thank you, I am in the know.
    2. Bekas1967 4 November 2015 11: 41 New
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      That's it.
    3. Walker 4 November 2015 23: 09 New
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      in your photos the front of the plane is the one in front of the wing
  8. Yellow 4 November 2015 08: 04 New
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    If they prove that this is a terrorist attack, then the blood of the dead on those who started the adventure in Syria, as well as on those who rejoiced so thoughtlessly.
    1. Andrea 4 November 2015 08: 14 New
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      Judging by your conclusion, there should be a "Boeing Fall" all over the world now, because the states and allies have organized so many international adventures that they can’t even count.
    2. killganoff 4 November 2015 08: 24 New
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      The attack? Set up a population like September 11th in the US?
      1. Lenin 7 November 2015 00: 22 New
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        All is correct. All in the fight against terrorism.
  9. killganoff 4 November 2015 08: 21 New
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    Read one old article on the MK from 2010 "analysis of the pilots" and then everything will fall into place.
  10. samarin1969 4 November 2015 08: 23 New
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    Egypt helps investigations on a large scale, politicians in Russia and Egypt are silent, the operation in Syria has quieted down media and the number of flights ... probably the media operation is being developed to "cover" the attack ...
    1. Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 08: 31 New
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      Quote: samarin1969
      politicians in Russia and Egypt are silent

      And what they have to say, PR at the tragedy, there will be only a complete nerd. The results of the investigation will be ready, then they will say.
      Quote: samarin1969
      , the operation in Syria has quieted media and the number of departures

      Chet did not notice, although maybe you missed something.
      Quote: samarin1969
      . probably the media operation "cover" the attack ...

      Oh well with that on Rent TV
  11. wild 4 November 2015 08: 48 New
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    Already the article is outdated, there are charred bodies and explosive injuries, the terrorist attack is likely.
  12. Michael_59 4 November 2015 08: 52 New
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    Quote: AUTHOR
    an explosion without fire is a rare occurrence. And an explosion without a trace of explosion - even more so.


    1. And if we consider the explosion is not a burning process? Explosion of a charged cylinder on the ground, for example, with oxygen? And get an instant increase in pressure inside the fuselage, capable of creating abnormal loads on the structural elements of the aircraft.
    2. And if there are two such cylinders?
    3. And if in one of these cylinders there is oxygen, and in the other, let’s say, hydrogen? And the valves are slightly ajar when loading baggage?

    It is clear that this is a comprehensive and multi-stage approach to the implementation of the terrorist attack and this reduces the likelihood of its implementation being limited by the intelligence of the ISIS’s nonhumans. But they could have been led ...

    Quote: AUTHOR
    Owner - International Lease Finance Corporation (ILFC) - an American leasing company specializing in the rental, leasing and sale of aircraft. Headquartered in Los Angeles.

    I didn’t know, thanks, I was impressed.
    1. Walker 4 November 2015 23: 17 New
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      Are there no charged cylinders in the plane, especially oxygen?
      1. Peterhof 73 5 November 2015 11: 43 New
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        What about diving equipment? Who will tell you whether it is fashionable to load such refilled cylinders into luggage?
        Quote: Voker
        Are there no charged cylinders in the plane, especially oxygen?
  13. Hello 4 November 2015 08: 52 New
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    He put an interesting article +, but I would not make assumptions before the expert reports. First you need to wait for the facts, but there is no invoice on this issue. hi
    1. Michael_59 4 November 2015 08: 58 New
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      Quote: Hello
      did not make assumptions before reports


      Think never bothers. And then some are still think believe guided by the information that the twin towers from a collision with airliners fell.
  14. Yarik 4 November 2015 08: 59 New
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    "Efficiency" rolled back into the pockets of officials - I would like to believe that the work of the leadership of our country will not end at the next publicized window dressing.
  15. Michael_59 4 November 2015 09: 21 New
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    Quote: armored optimist
    And finally find the bookmarks that there are no doubt


    With tongue removed. For a long time they could not find stabilizers at the dead liner. Very durable structural element. But if the plane at a speed "in the echelon" of about 900 km / h exceeds the maximum vertical deviation angles (it too "touches" or "lowers" the "nose"), the pressure-impact on the stabilizers will be such that they will not withstand and fall off. What actually happened. What keeps the plane from reaching extreme limits of deviation, as a result of, let's say, errors in piloting? On-board electronics. And if she suddenly stops working? The answer is obvious.
    1. Petrix 4 November 2015 13: 13 New
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      Quote: Michael_59
      The answer is obvious.

      Plus, you can choose any plane. The one that is being repaired. And, depending on the situation, voice the right version for the people. For those in power, the version may be completely different. But the TV will tell the people what is needed.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  16. Million 4 November 2015 09: 46 New
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    It is unlikely that they will tell us the truth. But in Egypt, our military base may appear
    1. alicante11 4 November 2015 12: 58 New
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      Ah ... what for? Extra money appeared? Nearby (relatively) Syrian Tartus and an almost ready air force base. And you want one more base in one region ... you live widely.
  17. made13 4 November 2015 09: 59 New
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    The crash of the plane with the victims is an occasion. It will be necessary to bomb Qatar under the guise of this fact - as ISIS sponsors - in this case, the topic with external influence will actively pedal.
    It is necessary to increase the sales of domestic equipment - there will be a technical malfunction followed by a ban on rent under IATA conditions - the cost of leasing will increase along with the sale of domestic aircraft.
    It is necessary to increase domestic tourism - a terrorist attack.

    And, I’m sure, there are groups in the leadership of Russia that benefit from one or another option. Who will win - we'll see.
  18. Old26 4 November 2015 10: 08 New
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    Quote: USSR 1971
    I am inclined to the version about the technical condition. The thirst for profit as a sacrifice of security destroys people constantly. For merchants, an airplane is primarily a commodity and a means of earning, rather than an aircraft.

    I must agree with this statement. In 1998, the AN-24 died, flying on the Stavropol-Trabzon flight. The plane was 24 years old, underwent 7 repairs ... Well, etc. He would have a place in a landfill, but money, money ... And as a result, the death of all 50 people on board

    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    When flying, the most dangerous are take-off and landing. There are very rare cases when a plane that has reached a train crashes. In short, until the reasons are established, there is nothing to guess about the reasons.

    Nevertheless, they do. The one I wrote about a little higher. "Tail" fell off after enelon

    Quote: Nikolai K
    Do you think that after this disaster, the demand for cheap charter tours fell sharply? No matter how, fly as before. Business always offers what is in demand. And the financial situation of most people does not allow the use of new aircraft.

    Alas, this is true. In addition, the bulk of people who fly on holiday to the same Turkey or Egypt can not always choose a carrier. First of all, there is the question of the cost of such a trip. For example, I flew to Turkey in 2011. It was necessary to go from Stavropol to Rostov. They flew by a Utair company plane (the plane was 3 or 4 years old at that time. Boeing 757). A friend flew from Mineralnye Vody to Yak-42, whose age was 4 times more. And before boarding the plane it was generally not known which plane everyone would fly on, more precisely the age of this plane)

    Quote: Good cat
    You need to fly on your liners, stop collecting rubbish all over the world!

    Entirely for. That's just not available and in sufficient quantity
    1. asiat_61 4 November 2015 17: 15 New
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      There was a marshal of aviation Shaposhnikov at one time, and so he was just advocating for imported airplanes. He and others like him also ruined everything they could.
  19. maestro123 4 November 2015 10: 39 New
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    1. It is urgent to consider and legislate a ban on the purchase and rental of broken aircraft by Russian companies. The risk to the lives of passengers is not worth the discount with which such aircraft are offered on the market.

    2. The most active way to deal with real import substitution in the aviation sector. And not on paper, but in practice. Not buying new or “slightly used” Boeings and Airbuses, but Tu, Su, Ila.


    The most important point is missing: To pay due attention to the maintenance of aviation equipment (and not only it), regardless of the country of manufacture.
    Metal fatigue is such a thing that is noticeable only with flaw detection.

    A flaw detector (lat. Defectus “defect” + other Greek. Σκοπέω “observe”) is a device for detecting defects in products from various metallic and nonmetallic materials using non-destructive testing methods. Defects include violations of the continuity or uniformity of the structure, zone of corrosion damage, chemical deviations. composition and size, etc. The field of engineering and technology involved in the development and use of flaw detectors is called flaw detection.


    And we have everything for this.
    1. Turbo rabbit 4 November 2015 14: 38 New
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      As a flaw detectorist, I tell you. Very much not always.
  20. bad
    bad 4 November 2015 11: 00 New
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    Who will be appointed guilty of the Egyptian tragedy and who will benefit from it?
    -the gunner will always find ..
    1. sa-ag 4 November 2015 11: 37 New
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      Quote: bad
      -the gunner will always find ..

      Most likely, small airlines will cover up, as once banks
  21. sabakina 4 November 2015 11: 53 New
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    Moscow, November 4. In South Sudan, the Russian An-12 cargo plane crashed. RIA Novosti, citing eyewitnesses, reports that more than 40 bodies were found at the scene of the tragedy. Now information about the crash is checked by Russian diplomats in Juba.

    What's happening?
    1. Bayonet 5 November 2015 04: 47 New
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      Quote: sabakina
      What's happening?

      Features of African Cargo Aviation! But easier - a mess. smile
  22. MahsusNazar 4 November 2015 11: 59 New
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    I have written my opinion about disasters more than once and will repeat myself.
    Never, friends, NEVER a single violation leads to disaster.
    I will not speak about the causes of the destruction of the aircraft, the investigation will give an answer professionally, but the conditions that made this possible are systemic violations and ignoring the rules. The rules of everything are safety, operation, repair and just politics.
  23. Pak_c_TonopoM 4 November 2015 12: 02 New
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    I’m on airplanes like a pig in oranges ... But something is happening wrong ... Malaysian Boeing ... Boeing in the Alps ... Our airbus ... And today our cargo board AN-12 fell in South Sudan .. Does it make sense to consider a version of a new weapon capable of:
    1) Take control of the system aircraft
    2) "crazy" the brains of an airplane?
    1. NIKNN 4 November 2015 13: 06 New
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      I’m on airplanes like a pig in oranges ... But something is happening wrong ... Malaysian Boeing ... Boeing in the Alps ... Our airbus ... And today our cargo board AN-12 fell in South Sudan .. Does it make sense to consider a version of a new weapon capable of:
      1) Take control of the system aircraft
      2) "crazy" the brains of an airplane?

      Why naminusovat. it’s not decent to minus it without comments ... you need to explain the position belay
      It is real to take control of computers (since the exchange of information with other client programs is considerable, but not in this case.
    2. Colonel 4 November 2015 13: 54 New
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      Quote: Pak_c_TonopoM
      "crazy" the brains of an airplane?

      As far as I understand, in this case only the crew has brains.
  24. sevtrash 4 November 2015 12: 38 New
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    What is the reason - soon it will be clear or almost clear. It seems that so far it’s still going to a terrorist attack, a bomb in an airplane.
    The question arises - who. The first ISIS suspect is possible, but it seems to them so far it makes no sense. After all, the videoconferencing forces iron the “moderate” more, first those who crush Assad, which is absolutely reasonable from a military point of view. And there will be many willing to substitute ISIS with the expectation of shifting the attention of the videoconferencing to ISIS, or it may provoke a full-fledged ground operation of Russia against ISIS with an unknown final effect, but losses from all sides, both material and human.
    So the list of those who could organize the attack is very wide. Even some now considered friends. Another question is what next. If ISIS is substituted or someone similar to Russia lights up, there will be an occasion to introduce ground forces. And there are already a bunch of options.
  25. konvalval 4 November 2015 12: 50 New
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    I won’t guess anything until the investigation is completed, but I’m sure of one thing: Medvedev’s “not a nightmare business” and the greed of this business itself will still bring a lot of grief to the Russian people.
  26. NIKNN 4 November 2015 13: 00 New
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    1. External exposure. This item is completely satisfied with the Kogalymavia company, but the Egyptian authorities are absolutely not happy with it. We removed this item from the agenda. Launching a rocket capable of “reaching” an airplane from 10 thousand meters is difficult to “overlook”. And the initial inspection of the debris did not show the presence of any traces of external exposure or fire.

    Israel is silent ... But they have the “DOME” system there and they all saw 400%, they would say though that there was nothing next to the plane or something like that ... they are silent. By the way about MANPADS, in one of the photographs from some exhibition I saw "Stingers" under the wing of drones.
    2. Internal impact. That is, a terrorist attack. On the one hand, it is difficult to dismiss such a probability, on the other hand, even when the plane is undergoing preflight training, refueling, etc., these actions are under the control of the crew. Must be at least. And again, the survey of debris showed no signs of a fire in the cabin. And you will agree (I agreed with such arguments) that an explosion without a fire is a very rare matter. And an explosion with no trace of an explosion is even more so.

    Many pilots who know this airport not by hearsay note the rare disorder in the security system. Read this forum http://www.forumavia.ru/forum/9/8/558846479219543256391446276598_51.shtml
    So to belittle this item among others is a mistake.
    3. Technical malfunction. Here is a wider selection of versions. Yes, this point does not suit the leadership of Kogalymavia Airlines in the first place. Because, according to our legislation, at least a criminal case is due under the relevant article. For guidance. And this manual will go all out to prove that the plane was good for everyone.

    But this version, although it really has serious advantages, is only due to the fact that the aircraft has an uncountable number of systems and each has claims to be refused.
    However, according to the results of the decryption of voice recorders, the crew did not mention any problems with the equipment. This is essential but not the fact of its serviceability.
    Article +
    1. Orakul2000 4 November 2015 20: 39 New
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      In one of our news releases, our specialists stated quite confidently that in this case there was a terrorist attack (this is to the point that our frontier dome operators should have seen something).

      With respect.
      1. andj61 4 November 2015 21: 26 New
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        Quote: Orakul2000
        In one of our news releases, our specialists stated quite confidently that in this case there was a terrorist attack (this is to the point that our frontier dome operators should have seen something).

        Sorry, Boris, hi Could you give details (if, of course, they are) - on the basis of what is such a conclusion drawn? This sounds like a terrorist attack, but some experts say that there could well be a technical reason: engine failure - its destruction - a fragment falls into the tail part - depressurization and tearing of the tail (which had repaired damage). The tracking satellites did not seem to see the missiles, but there could, of course, be an explosive device inside the aircraft.
        1. kuz363 5 November 2015 07: 49 New
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          In fact, the tail is far from the engine. And if the engine is destroyed, then the turbine blades at a tremendous speed will cut the fuselage directly opposite the engine. There should be pieces of vanes in front of the aircraft.
  27. ism_ek 4 November 2015 13: 19 New
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    Quote: AUTHOR
    The plane received a “tail strike - it’s a tail strike on the runway. Apparently, the plane was repaired after this incident. Repair in such cases is considered a complicated and expensive operation.

    There are at least two confirmed cases in which improper repair of such damage led to the subsequent destruction of the aircraft in the air:

    Japan Airlines Flight 123 - 12 August 1985 (520 dead);
    China Airlines Flight 611 - 2002 year (224 dead).

    Japanese and Chinese aircraft were repaired in artisanal conditions with a violation of technology; the Kolymavia board was repaired at the manufacturer's factory in Toulouse.
  28. Cook 4 November 2015 13: 29 New
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    I think that it will be very difficult to hide the true cause of the disaster. The reason is the great resonance of the event and the number of parties involved in the investigation. They are all interested in taking the blame away from themselves, and therefore it will be very difficult to agree on the conclusions of an investigation that suits everyone. It’s possible to hide or try to somehow change the results of the investigation when investigating the An-2 emergency landing somewhere in Novoebunovo, when the investigation is being carried out by the territorial administration, and it’s hard to hide the secret, as they say "that two people know, the pig knows."
    As for ILFC, this is indeed the largest leasing company owned by a consortium of banks. But according to the rules, airworthiness is the responsibility of the civil aviation authority of the country of registration of the aircraft, in this case, Ireland. This is enshrined in the agreement on the separation of powers for maintaining airworthiness, according to Article 83bis of the annex to the Chicago Convention of the Civil Aviation. If you noticed, in the case of this aircraft, the country of registration does not coincide with the country of the operator in three cases: Lebanon - registration France, Turkey - CA, Russia - Ireland. The second case can be neglected, since it is clear that the plane was transferred to Saudi Arabia from the Turkish Onur Air to sublease, and was returned there. So, a mismatch between the country of registration and the country of the operator occurs when the lessor does not trust the authorities of the country of the operator due to the lack of clear legislation in this area, or due to the lack of normal specialists to carry out appropriate supervision. I do not know anything about the Lebanese Aviation Administration, but the Federal Air Transport Agency has neither one nor the other. The fact is that having entrusted the PLG to such comrades, the lessor risks that, upon returning the aircraft and transferring it to the next operator, the country's authorities supervising the PLG may require the lessor to re-perform all maintenance work, that is, re-checking, it is very expensive and nobody needs it. That is why the aircraft operating in Russia, to our shame as a great aviation power, are registered in Ireland, Bermuda and hell even knows where. Of course there are originals, such as a bank - the owner of VIM-Avia aircraft, which, unknowingly, registered them in Russia. But now he is deprived of the opportunity to pick them up and attach them somewhere at an affordable price. By the way, the transfer of an aircraft from one operator to another occurs mainly not because of some unsatisfactory technical condition, but after leasing contracts, because this model didn’t really fit the airline’s route network, it may be due to the unification of the AK fleet, maybe be associated with the policies of the lessor or the operator. How is airworthiness maintained? If the country of the operator does not coincide with the country of its operation, the topic is for a separate post if not an article, but believe it there very seriously.
    1. Walker 4 November 2015 23: 23 New
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      about mh-17 also sprinkle
      1. Cook 5 November 2015 00: 30 New
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        You know, unfortunately, I don’t have any original thoughts about this catastrophe. And in vain to rub, I think unproductive.
  29. Petrix 4 November 2015 13: 33 New
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    Interesting. And the data on-board DVRs will not clarify the picture?
  30. vladimirvn 4 November 2015 13: 35 New
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    The blogger Maxim Volokh, who posted a video on the Internet with insults at the victims of the crash of the Russian A321 airliner in Egypt, was found murdered in his apartment in Kiev, reports tatpressa.ru.
    According to preliminary information, the unknown inflicted numerous stab wounds on the blogger, from which he died on the spot. http://ya62.ru/news/society/ubit_bloger_oskorblyavshiy_zhertv_krusheniya_a321/
  31. 16112014nk 4 November 2015 13: 42 New
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    The risk to the lives of passengers is not worth the discount ...
    "At 300% profit - there is no crime that he would not risk, at least under the threat of the gallows ..."
    K. Marx "Capital"
  32. Old26 4 November 2015 14: 35 New
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    Quote: NIKNN
    Israel is silent ... But they have the “DOME” system there and they all saw 400%, they would say though that there was nothing next to the plane or something like that ... they are silent.

    Are you sure you didn’t say anything? Or the conclusion that they are silent, do on the basis that the media are silent?
    1. NIKNN 4 November 2015 15: 31 New
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      Based on the media, of course, there are no links in the Competent Authorities. request And if you look at how the rhetoric of the press is changing, then a certain semblance of "management" of information is clearly traced, which leads to unpleasant thoughts.
  33. Urri 4 November 2015 15: 15 New
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    Quote: vladimirvn
    logger Maxim Volokh, who posted a video on the Internet with insults at the victims of the crash of the Russian A321 liner in Egypt, was found murdered in his apartment in Kiev, tatpressa.ru reports.
    According to preliminary information, the unknown inflicted numerous stab wounds on the blogger, from which he died on the spot. http://ya62.ru/news/society/ubit_bloger_oskorblyavshiy_zhertv_krusheniya_a321/


    Bayan and fake, repeatedly already exposed. Poganets was in his account yesterday.
  34. Denis Skiff 4 November 2015 16: 43 New
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    the question is not who, but who? Who is this appointee? Boxes and negotiations with the tower today do not solve anything?
  35. Denis Skiff 4 November 2015 16: 49 New
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    Quote: almamatkulov.79
    I go to work in the countryside in my native PAZik, so one winter morning the flight in the dark went after heavy snow, equipped with a trainee driver who did not know the route and was generally not local, without a conductor, and even the gears did not switch . The road forgives a lot, but the air does not. If there is a mess around the country, then such sad news will soon become the norm. They have already become.


    -----------------------------------------------
    tenzORUD. the helm. where is the helm on the plane? Rus and ores and the rest of the pens.
  36. Awaz 4 November 2015 16: 57 New
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    in the process, everything goes to the point that a compromise will be found. the terrorist attack is convenient for the authorities of the Russian Federation, air officials and owners of Kogalymavia. It is not convenient for Egypt, but under certain circumstances they may accept it. But in reality, most likely this is the destruction of the liner from improper operation. But this version will not find support from either Russian officials from the aviation or the leadership of the airline ..
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. CB activist 4 November 2015 17: 29 New
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    "Internal exposure. That is, a terrorist attack ...
    We will move this version as well. A bomb in baggage also has a certain probability, but this could happen where the flight control is so-so. But not at the international airport of a country that, moreover, is heavily dependent on the tourism business, and even located in such a company around itself, where only the lazy do not fight. It’s generally easier to find a place where it’s quiet. And the fingers on one hand are enough to count. "

    R. Skomorokhov collapsed from oak? In Russia, every dog ​​knows that at the Sharm el-Sheikh airport, baggage inspection is carried out formally, the level of security against terrorist attacks is zero.
  39. Cook 4 November 2015 18: 31 New
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    It is unlikely that anyone other than a suicide bomber will drag a bomb in his luggage, Egypt is not Egypt, but there is a risk of detection during inspection. Charter flight means there should be no strangers. If this is a terrorist attack, then it is more realistic to bribe an employee of the airport services or introduce his own person there.
    1. Bayonet 5 November 2015 04: 56 New
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      Quote: Cook
      It’s unlikely that anyone besides a suicide bomber will drag a bomb in his luggage,

      If your man is at the airport, why not show up the extra suitcase along the path of luggage to the plane?
    2. kuz363 5 November 2015 07: 39 New
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      to put a bag in your luggage for big money - a holy thing for a Muslim
  40. twincam 4 November 2015 19: 36 New
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    Yes, most likely, what thread is “convinced” working at the airport and planted a bomb.
    some expert from MAK was already speaking on the box, drew attention to the fact that the inner surface of the luggage compartment was all black from soot .....
  41. Support 4 November 2015 20: 06 New
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    The article is correct. I agree with the conclusions. But only the author has forgotten the fundamental principle of capitalism - profit and superprofit in any, I repeat, in any way. No matter what - there is only one thing - to cut loot. So, air junk, if it is profitable, will fly.
  42. Dikson 4 November 2015 20: 34 New
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    The British canceled ALL flights from this airport. Cameron was informed that the cause of the crash of our plane was a terrorist attack ... The British are double-checking their planes ... These are the things.
  43. wow
    wow 4 November 2015 21: 23 New
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    That's right. Aviation is not the kind of human activity where the mistakes of pilots, navigators, engineers, technicians, and many, many more involved experts are forgiven. As snotty cadets taught us, all the laws of aviation are written in blood ....
  44. pilot bin-bom 4 November 2015 22: 10 New
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    As already noted in the articles on the website in the Russian Federation, there is currently a complete mess with the regulatory framework regarding aviation security for civilian vessels. Over the past two years, the Republic of Belarus has developed about 10 aviation rules, more than 5 aviation rules are under development, the Flight Safety Program of the Republic of Belarus has been developed (in accordance with the standards of Appendix 19 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation in order to further develop safety oversight processes and achieve acceptable level of effectiveness of ensuring the safety of civil aviation) and the program for the development of civil aviation for 2016-2020. So if it’s interesting for specialists - well, to take a type of experience, then come to Minsk
  45. Radikal 4 November 2015 22: 17 New
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    2. Internal exposure. That is a terrorist attack. On the one hand, it is difficult to eliminate such a probability, on the other hand, even when the aircraft undergoes preflight training, refueling, etc., these actions are under the control of the crew.
    A small remark, Roman. There is another weak link - the luggage of passengers on a particular flight, or rather, its delivery from the check-in to the "board"! And this is done by airport staff, i.e. "local" frames! At this stage, you can put the "left" suitcase, bag, etc. in the luggage. things. And not the fact that this "process" can control the crew of the aircraft. hi
    1. Dikson 4 November 2015 23: 27 New
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      In this case, is not too much left at the scene of the accident unburned baggage? Judging by the video, several suitcase cars were collected .. And in case of a bomb explosion in the luggage compartment, the idea was to burn the luggage first of all ..
    2. kuz363 5 November 2015 07: 35 New
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      Of course. The crew can not control the entire stage of preparation of the aircraft. They have their own business - to get food, baggage, arrange a bunch of documents ...
  46. mr.vasilievich 4 November 2015 22: 17 New
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    The most reliable aircraft are ILs. Where are they now?
  47. pilot bin-bom 4 November 2015 23: 47 New
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    Question. Which explosives leave no trace?
    Answer. Hydrogen-oxygen mixture. The combustion product is water.
    Two small plastic balloons are enough and a lot of pressure will rise in the closed volume.
    1. kuz363 5 November 2015 07: 31 New
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      But methane with oxygen is not suitable? It will also produce water and carbon dioxide.
    2. Mister22408 5 November 2015 21: 54 New
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      And at the same time, nothing will be melted along the break line?
  48. boris117 5 November 2015 00: 57 New
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    Quote: venaya
    You need to build - that's right.

    And not to build is a crime. Aircraft industry is a strategic industry, which absolutely must not depend on imports. Civil aircraft industry has always played a dual role in our country. Our aircraft are still the best and are not inferior to the American. IL-86 what is bad? Economism has crawled into all holes and determines everything. The economic manager does not see anything beyond his pocket. The industry should be led by a specialist !!!. And even more so, such as aircraft manufacturing. We must energetically carry out what goes without saying and we must start with people. Disperse economic trash. Climb everywhere like cockroaches. In science, the main nano-organizers. Technical branches are heading. Little Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station ?. This is the work of Chubais. Now the nuclear industry is led by Kinder Surprise. We will wait for a surprise there too, but there will be a lot of Chernobyl. Let them sit in accounting. Once the proletariat was set to lead the factories. Now similarly, economists are at the head of everything. Crime, this. Cadres define everything.
    1. Bayonet 5 November 2015 05: 07 New
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      Quote: boris117
      Now the nuclear industry is led by Kinder Surprise. We will wait for a surprise there too, but there will be a lot of Chernobyl. Let them sit in accounting. Once the proletariat was set to lead the factories.

      Now, if God forbid, the "proletariat" will begin to rule the nuclear industry - there will definitely be a lot of Chernobyl!
      1. goblin xnumx 7 November 2015 01: 39 New
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        do you think Chernobyl is the fault of the proletariat?
  49. The comment was deleted.
  50. Kelwin 5 November 2015 01: 32 New
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    Threat. So, catch-up - logs are also not ice.
  51. Bayonet 5 November 2015 05: 11 New
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    There is no need to run ahead of the engine when the data of the "black boxes" is deciphered, the expertise data is received - then we will wave our hands! hi
  52. kuz363 5 November 2015 07: 25 New
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    Yes, the Chinese plane is closest in the number of deaths. Almost the analogy is complete. It is necessary to attract the Chinese to investigate this accident. But the United States is not necessary, although they beg. The result will be done as they want.
  53. waiting in 5 November 2015 09: 26 New
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    somehow the plane crash coincided with an operation in Syria. And the same region. I bow to the attack.
  54. sledge 5 November 2015 10: 08 New
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    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: USSR 1971
    I am inclined to the version about the technical condition.

    In short, as long as the reasons are not established, there is nothing to guess about the reasons.

    There is no point in guessing, there is no point in procrastinating this topic, as it is being procrastinated in all kinds of forums and in all mass media !!! So many people have had a tragedy, and all around you can only hear how they discuss possible options .....
  55. Volzhanin 5 November 2015 11: 45 New
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    Instead of developing earlier the best aircraft manufacturing in the world and building your own aircraft, we purchase Western crafts - that’s the result. Capitalism, his mother! But someone made a dough that now the great-grandchildren can’t even spend it, although the Westerners will take it away sooner or later.
    Although finding the one who cherished domestic aircraft construction and lobbied for the purchase of Western ones is not the focus. These people are not so many - why do not they go to prison?
  56. Straight 5 November 2015 14: 11 New
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    In any case, these flaws in our system led to disaster.
  57. Stalnov I.P. 5 November 2015 14: 37 New
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    The article is reasonable, but not fully understood, it is necessary not to pull out individual problems, but to look at all the problems in our national economic complex, the lack of power in the vision of the development of the complex in all its areas, strategic planning, the role of control bodies, the lack of professionals from the economy in higher to the authorities and simply not a desire to develop their industry, the media went through it somehow, and then it suddenly disappeared that Deputy Prime Minister Dvorkovich was putting a stick in the wheels of a pipeline to China and the SI had to call the GDP, although there were no refutations. It turns out the person responsible for such an important area as transport, industry, energy has a destructive policy in the government, which already does not shine with professionalism. So it turns out that the power itself against our planes, by the way, since the beginning of 2000, all experts from the aviation have been talking about this, but neither the president nor the prime minister have heard them, the question is when will the authorities begin to listen and how many should be banged "so that she would hear or a little green candy wrapper would hang above their eyes.
  58. Inq
    Inq 5 November 2015 16: 07 New
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    Who benefits? A few years ago, news was full of headlines about the increasing attacks of sharks in resorts in Egypt. Later, in an article, there was information that tankers passing not very far from the beaches dumped carcasses into the water. A kind of bait, so to speak. After this, a revolution took place, after which, fortunately, radical Islamists were pressed, but during this period the news too was full of dangers of Egypt. Many (according to the media) European tourists refused to fly to Egypt. The tragedy with our aircraft is completely in line, assuming that someone wants to do the most damage to the tourism industry in Egypt. So the option with an explosion on board should not be ruled out.
  59. Old warrior 5 November 2015 17: 54 New
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    "Kappittalizm" (c) film "Red Heat". What do you want - the pursuit of profit affects aircraft repair and flight safety. Surely he has long recaptured his value and even paid to the families of the victims 1-2 million rubles. will not inflict much damage to the company's finances.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Turkir 6 November 2015 00: 04 New
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      "Kappittalizm" (c) film "Red Heat".

      By the way, k \ f is called "Red cop". Second-year translator error.
      Yes, and we still have capitalism in red jackets, at the same level as the knowledge of this translator.
  60. Buffalo 5 November 2015 19: 48 New
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    For the umpteenth time I am convinced that Skomorokhov is an extremely frivolous author.
    His articles are provocative. One feels that a person has an idea of ​​the activities of experts and specialists - arrogant and dismissive.
    I got to the article, as in the city.
    Ugh!
  61. Lunic 5 November 2015 20: 20 New
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    Another opinion:
    (Test pilot and former commander of the Vnukovo flight squad, Yuri Sytnik, on the most likely causes of the crash of the Airbus A321. (Stolen from Lenta.ru)
    http://lenta.ru/video/2015/11/03/airbus_versia_experta/
  62. eleronn 5 November 2015 23: 47 New
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    I ask the author of the article! You have nothing to do? Is it hard to wait for the investigation to finish? Why all this ??? !!! What for?
  63. Starley from the south 6 November 2015 00: 21 New
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    Where did Roman get such productivity? And essentially true. I would just like to say once again about domestic aircraft: they are no worse than foreign ones. The point is unfair competition, to say the least. A business, especially a large one, is a thing ... not very clean, and a gay one is a dirty and mean thing. It is entirely possible that defects were specifically overlooked in Geyrop; they were not the ones to fly. The saddest thing is that, most likely, those who overlooked this (intentionally or not) will not be punished. This is Geyropa! angry
  64. svu93 6 November 2015 11: 06 New
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    A little off topic, but still ....
    Just read that Charlie magazine has published cartoons on the topic of disaster ....
    I have only one question. Charlie’s magazine. What is the theme for the cartoons? Just overwhelmed with indignation !!!!!!
    1. sergio3004 6 November 2015 20: 56 New
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      God be their judge.
  65. cap54 6 November 2015 13: 19 New
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    I grieve with everyone about the dead and the children to a greater extent !!!
    Each of the proposed versions has the right to be! But no one will ever tell the true reasons for the tragedy for a simple reason - this, as always, may not be beneficial for anyone ... So - nefig now waving his pants over the bathhouse, anyway it's like fortunetelling on coffee grounds, you have to wait at least the "official version" ... then it’s worth organizing an adequate response to the culprits!
  66. _Mitrich_ 6 November 2015 18: 20 New
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    Quote: fiction
    1. Only the front of the passenger compartment was not affected by the fire.
    2. There was a fire, but could have occurred outside the cabin. In the luggage compartments, for example.

    That's right, we see that in the compartment for the emergency ladder, located under the door, there was a fire. The smoke from which came out from under the hatch. And it is clear that this was burning in the air, and not on the ground.

    Who are you from yourself reprimanded !!!! ?????
    20 minutes of flight of fuel on board to the eyeballs, the stump is clear that this fuel burned during a crash, and here already from the photo what, where and when it burned installed fool

    I would venture to disagree ... If the fuel in the tanks was too tight, a spot the size of a football field would burn on the ground .... but no Egyptian firefighters at the crash site showed "hard-working people" in any news video. Only ambulances