Russian experts do not believe in the Chinese hypersonic aircraft

In China, a hypersonic aircraft has recently made its first test flight, which in its speed has bypassed all existing modern supersonic aircraft, including the famous Black-Thrush SR-71, an American strategic supersonic reconnaissance aircraft. This was reported by the media with reference to the Chinese military expert Lu Xiaodong. “It was the first test flight of our aircraft at hypersonic speed, this flight was a complete success,” said Lu Xiaodong on the air on the satellite TV channel of Hubei Province. News replicated Russian agencies, in particular TASS.


Lu Xiaodong noted: “In the USA, they have been engaged in creating a new generation hypersonic aircraft for quite a long time that could reach the speed of 5M flight (5 Mach numbers, speeds five times faster than the speed of sound), but the plans of the Americans remain on paper. This time, the PRC, one might say, has managed to exceed all the expectations of international observers. ”

Hypersonic aircraft (HLA or HZLA) are called aircraft that are able to fly in the atmosphere at hypersonic speed (equal to or greater than 5М), and also to maneuver using aerodynamic forces.

According to the Chinese expert, for the implementation of this project, it was necessary to become the owner of a technology for building a hypersonic ramjet engine, which until recently had not been in any country in the world. In addition, it was necessary to create durable, fire-resistant and at the same time light new materials that could withstand the high temperatures to which the aircraft flying at hypersonic speed would heat up. Lu Xiaodong stressed that hypersonic aircraft will be able to quite successfully overcome modern air defense systems, since the approach time is significantly reduced, and the air defense forces of the likely enemy do not have time to react and direct their missiles to a hypersonic aircraft. According to him, one of the promising areas in which hypersonic aircraft can be used will be reconnaissance from the air.

3D-model of the Chinese hypersonic aircraft from the Defense blog


The Chinese hypersonic aircraft may have received the designation Wu-14 and the Americans are already interested in it. According to the publication Defense-blog.com, due to the lack of any information on the appearance of this Chinese novelty today, representatives of the US defense department and military experts tried to create a 3D model of the new promising Chinese hypersonic aircraft. To create this model, they used satellite images. The photo was captured aviation parking located in the test center in the south-west of China. At this parking lot, a previously unknown aircraft was noticed, and experts also used information that was obtained from open sources to create their model.

At the same time, hypersonic technology does not have to be military. In August, 2015 reported that the US Patent and Trademark Office approved a patent application from Airbus for a hypersonic passenger aircraft. Experts of this European company believe that it would be possible to fly from Tokyo to Los Angeles or from Paris to San Francisco in just 3 hours in a hypersonic passenger plane. So hypersonic technology attracts not only the military.

While in the Russian press they write about the Chinese hypersonic aircraft, the American media consider the Russian developments of hypersonic aircraft. In the summer of 2015, the edition of The Washington Free Beacon (WFB) reported on tests in Russia of a hypersonic aircraft. According to the sources of the publication, in February 2015, the U-71 unit was launched in near-earth orbit, where it was delivered by the Stiletto intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) SS-19. The rocket was launched from the position area of ​​the Dombarovsky unit of the Strategic Missile Forces, located in the Orenburg region. It is this combat unit that is said to receive up to 2025 of the year 24 units Yu-71, which are likely to become equipment for the new Russian Sarmat ICBM.



Analysts believe that the creation of an experimental hypersonic device is carried out in the framework of a top-secret program under the designation "4202", which was launched in the 2009 year. The aim of the program is to develop the latest strategic strike weapons, which will significantly increase the capabilities of the Strategic Missile Forces and become a kind of response to any missile defense system. It is reported that Yu-71 can carry both conventional and nuclear warheads. In this case, the trajectory of such a hypersonic device will be unpredictable, and the flight will take place at a speed of more than 11 thousands of km / h. At the same time, the device will be able to actively maneuver, which will make the possibility of its interception by elements of the air defense or missile defense systems impossible.

According to Jane's analysts, the U-71 unit was created at the end of the “zero” years, and the tests conducted in February of this year were the fourth for it. In their opinion, the first test launch of the device took place in December 2011 of the year, the second - in September 2013 of the year, the third - in 2014 of the year. These dates are explained by the authors of the publication by the presence of some documents that relate to the construction of new military facilities. According to the WFB publication, the Pentagon press secretary declined to comment on Jane's information somehow. At the same time, the Pentagon is attentively following the developments of Russia in this field, a retired US defense official told Mark Schneider.

Also, Jane's analysts do not exclude the possibility that in the future one of the U-71 variants could be adapted to create a promising strategic bomber - PAK DA. At the same time, The Washington Free Beacon notes that today hypersonic aircraft are being developed in China, as well as by several American organizations. According to experts, the greatest results in this area have been achieved precisely in the Celestial Empire, where experimental launches have been actively carried out since the 2014 year.



At the same time, Russian experts doubt the ability of China to create a full-fledged hypersonic aircraft. Viktor Murakhovsky, editor-in-chief of the Arsenal of Fatherland magazine and member of the expert council of the Board of the Military-Industrial Commission of the Russian Federation, does not believe in reports from the Chinese media about the testing of the fastest aircraft in the world today. According to him, speed in 5 Makhov today develop combat units of ICBMs, but they are uncontrollable. If we talk about controlled aircraft, so far all the existing experimental samples that Russia and the United States have are just demonstrators of technology. Whereas no one has the final finished product. The expert believes that it will still be quite a long time before such planes actually appear. It is necessary to solve the problem with the engines - ordinary turbojet aircraft engines will not accelerate the aircraft to such speed of flight - as well as with control systems and plating materials. Therefore, reports by the Chinese media about testing such an aircraft is a stuffing, the expert believes.

Oleg Panteleev, the head of the analytical service of the AviaPort information portal, also doubts that the PRC succeeded in creating a workable plane capable of traveling at hypersonic speed, and not a flying laboratory that can fly in this mode for no more than 1,5 seconds. According to him, it’s too early to talk about whether Beijing has a full-fledged combat system capable of flying at hypersonic speeds and solving combat missions at speed in 5 in the near future. At least, until recently, none of the states of the world managed to create such a system.

Although the Russians and Americans have been able to ensure the efficiency of a key element of such aircraft (engine) for several seconds of flight. However, this is clearly not enough to create a full-fledged combat systems. Moreover, with the current level of development of satellite reconnaissance technologies and relatively inexpensive and inconspicuous UAVs, the feasibility of developing such an expensive machine looks ambiguous, but the Chinese intelligence function is one of the possible ones for such an aircraft.

SR-71 Blackbird, one of the fastest aircraft in the world, speed 3,2M


In terms of creating a new reconnaissance aircraft, American developments seem more realistic. At the end of August 2015, information appeared that Lockheed Martin had begun to create an “invisible” reconnaissance aircraft that would replace the old U-2. The main difference between the new aircraft will be the use of stealth technology, which should make the aircraft inconspicuous for air defense radars. In this case, the aircraft is supposed to combine all the best that the U-2 aircraft has and the Global Hawk drone. According to the designs of designers such an aircraft could climb to a height of more than 23 km.

Oleg Panteleev noted that the American project of Lockheed Martin, which is working on replacing U-2, looks much more realistic than Chinese statements. Still, the US Air Force can afford in a particular region of the planet to use their manned equipment with absolute impunity. Since over the territory of countries over which reconnaissance flights are made, there is often simply no serious air defense system. In addition, most likely, we are talking about the development of an aircraft that can simultaneously fly with or without a pilot.

Information sources:
http://vpk-news.ru/news/27179
http://www.rg.ru/2015/07/03/apparat-site.html
http://svpressa.ru/war21/article/132342
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  1. Nitarius 30 October 2015 06: 56 New
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    ))) I have long thought that there is both!
    1. Saburov 30 October 2015 13: 00 New
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      The Chinese are cunning ... in the foreseeable future, for years 60 they will not be able to reach hypersound. The fact is that everyone knows that, for example, Chinese (original) equipment loses in quality to both our and Western models (not to be confused with licensed production) and the military all the more so, China did not go the way of technological mode, although they actively attract specialists from abroad, and in order to create modern military equipment (for example, even a tank), not only technical documentation is required. Experience is needed to create armored steel experience on the creation of ammunition, artillery research institutes and much more, and this experience has been accumulating for decades, that China has never had and even more so combat experience (which is the most valuable), and no one will sell such technologies, since you can make billions with them. As the year of development of the industry, technology became much more complicated, and the technological chains became longer. And to restore this chain, and most importantly, the specific parameters of technological processes, having only a finished product on hand is practically impossible. Take, for example, the blade of a high-pressure turbine of the AL-31 engine. By taking and examining it, one can easily obtain information about its geometry, in particular, about the internal cooling channels. You can get more or less accurate information about the alloy used in the blade. In the end, making microsections, we conclude that the blade is a single crystal. Geometry is relatively easy to copy. Alloy copy is already more difficult. Properly cooling the melt so that there is only one crystallization center is already damn difficult. But it is precisely the totality of all these technological stages that provides the final characteristics of the product. And this is only one shoulder blade. One unit in a huge engine. How, having only a finished product on hand, find out all the stages of its production? And the rest of the engine parts? How many times have blanks been forged? Stamped? What heat treatment regimen were they subjected to? Have there been intermediate heat treatments between operations? This information is not available, and extracting it from the finished sparkling part is very, very difficult, if at all possible. That is why the AL-31F engine, which was developed back in the 70's, was only recently copied by China. And the result of this copying is extremely unsatisfactory: a much shorter resource, and less specific thrust than the original. And that is precisely why, despite having its own copy, China still buys AL-31 from Russia, so China simply decided to scare or boast of a hypersonic aircraft.
      1. gridasov 30 October 2015 13: 12 New
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        You can agree that a lot of work has been done and it’s really impossible to create anything in the way of technological experience in the production of any smallest detail that was coordinated in the whole device. However, now one can quite reasonably argue that any engine works like a turbine, but basically like a screw. has critical limits to its work. That is, it then simply collapses. Therefore, this obviously concerns precisely the blades, that the new concept of the turbine provides for fundamentally different solutions, in which the blade does not need to be cooled because it does not come into contact with the combustion chamber in a plane. This means that new engines will be created on a new technological experience. So, in the nature of the development of human knowledge there are patterns as for all other processes.
        1. Finntroll 30 October 2015 21: 27 New
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          The Chinese can not reproduce materials in particular the blades of the development of the 70s. They do not have a base for creating materials capable of withstanding the m5, not to mention a ramjet engine. Sorry here even Amerikosy who in the aircraft industry are really not stupid (although we all want to believe it) poke and bob about that year. IMHO botva is all about the fact that they (in the sense of the Chinese) have experienced something, completely agree with the comrade Saburov.
          1. gridasov 30 October 2015 21: 38 New
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            Americans are really not stupid, if only because they have applications for innovative ideas on the topic of gas turbine engines based on new physical principles. They themselves are unlikely to be able to get there, but for sure. It is important that they already understand that the "old" or modern principles of gas turbine engine operation are not that they are outdated, but that they have the limits of their capabilities. Including critical levels of modernization and development. Therefore, the question is who is the first? But the key principles of such an engine already exist.
          2. edge 31 October 2015 16: 49 New
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            Quote: FinnTroll
            The Chinese can not reproduce materials in particular the blades of the development of the 70s. They do not have a base for creating materials capable of withstanding the m5, not to mention a ramjet engine. Sorry here even Amerikosy who in the aircraft industry are really not stupid (although we all want to believe it) poke and bob about that year.

            the main idea is to yell before everyone else, and then refer to themselves and yell that they were robbed .....
        2. edge 31 October 2015 16: 46 New
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          Quote: gridasov
          However, now one can quite reasonably argue that any engine works like a turbine, but basically like a screw. has critical limits to its work

          the Chinese have not yet created, have not created their own aircraft engine (for the fighter, including, it seems, the 5th generation) and are buying them from us. what kind of hypersound is it.
      2. Appraiser 30 October 2015 15: 56 New
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        They have the main strategy first, curl and then it will be seen.
      3. Lapkonium 30 October 2015 18: 24 New
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        Here is something that seems to me that for a certain amount of money you can find out all this directly from the manufacturer. And even if not, then the Chinese, with their own tones of money, can speed up the research process to more than the Soviet pace. I think for years through 10-20, with such a frail economy as we have now, they will no longer need any samples of our technology.
        1. Saburov 30 October 2015 20: 46 New
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          Quote: Lapkonium
          Here is something that seems to me that for a certain amount of money you can find out all this directly from the manufacturer. And even if not, then the Chinese, with their own tones of money, can speed up the research process to more than the Soviet pace. I think for years through 10-20, with such a frail economy as we have now, they will no longer need any samples of our technology.

          This is not possible for one simple reason, firstly, decades will pass until they reach the minimum requirements, and secondly, at the beginning of combat operation, many shortcomings and technical errors are revealed (no one is safe from a fool) and it will take time again to eliminate them (using the example of the same engine AL-31F), thirdly, military products are produced by a complex of enterprises and design bureaus and work there is carried out according to the principle “I know what I collect” that is, by separate units and assemblies by departments and to buy all this (technical document) ation, a special department, technical safety, engineers, and so on) do not have enough money even for a long time the United States would otherwise have bought.
        2. edge 31 October 2015 16: 52 New
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          Quote: Lapkonium
          Here is something that seems to me that for a certain amount of money you can find out all this directly from the manufacturer. And even if not, then the Chinese, with their tones of money, can speed up the research process

          Okst, you won’t buy brains for money and you won’t create a theory - here we need a scientific school ....
          1. gridasov 31 October 2015 17: 03 New
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            That's for sure! Any designer, and any master of his craft, is one because he knows about the nuances that he cannot even talk about. Just know. It just feels.
      4. edge 31 October 2015 16: 42 New
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        Quote: Saburov
        The Chinese are cunning ... in the foreseeable future, for 60 years they will not be able to reach hypersound.

        I agree, this is the destiny of all the nouveau riche, yelling to prove that the super-duper ...
      5. voyaka uh 1 November 2015 11: 26 New
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        for saburov
        "This information is not, and extract it from the finished sparkling part
        very, very difficult "////

        This information is received (worldwide) in a different way.
        Hire a process engineer (pensioner) from the factory
        for the manufacture of such blades, they pay him 10 times more,
        than his former salary, and he himself tells in detail
        how many forgings, stampings, etc.
        1. Saburov 6 November 2015 00: 13 New
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          You all stroked as always, already answered your future question.
          Quote: voyaka uh
          This is not possible for one simple reason, firstly, decades will pass until they reach the minimum requirements, and secondly, at the beginning of combat operation, many shortcomings and technical errors are revealed (no one is safe from a fool) and it will take time again to eliminate them (using the example of the same engine AL-31F), thirdly, military products are produced by a complex of enterprises and design bureaus and work there is carried out according to the principle “I know what I collect” that is, by separate units and assemblies by departments and to buy all this (technical document) ation, a special department, technical safety, engineers, and so on) do not have enough money even for a long time the United States would otherwise have bought.
    2. Civil 31 October 2015 00: 15 New
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      Remember remember how we and I including:
      1. The Chinese do not finish building the Varangian - finish building.
      2. Cannot copy SU-33.
      3. No landing systems.

      Maybe enough to live in illusions?
      1. Saburov 31 October 2015 02: 48 New
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        Quote: Civil
        Remember remember how we and I including:
        1. The Chinese do not finish building the Varangian - finish building.
        2. Cannot copy SU-33.
        3. No landing systems.
        Maybe enough to live in illusions?


        1. They finished building it, but what's the point? Its combat potential fell two, if not three times. Missile weapons (for example, on Kuznetsovo P-700 Granite) air defense systems with a range of only 6 km, instead of 6 autocannons on Kuznetsovo, in China are 3 Type 1130 autocannons , there is no radio-electronic warfare complex, half of the radar weapons are missing (the Chinese are disingenuous here as well), the maximum aviation group is two times smaller and you still don’t know much. So they could just finish building, but no more than that, so it’s just dust in the eyes and bragging (the Chinese love this very much). As a result of the work, the Chinese got an aircraft carrier with pretty weakened weapon systems. In fact, a ship can only defend itself from the attack of a not very large group of ships.
        2.Shenyang J-15 is equipped with the Russian AL-31F 3 series (they sent their copy of Shenyang WS-10A to better times precisely for the reason that I described in the previous comment) and its glider resource is, to put it mildly, small. You apparently read my comment on stupid copying poorly.
        3.And you never thought that it was our specialists who helped the Chinese colleagues? Including navigation equipment.
        PS A man does not believe in anything so holy, of which he knows the least.
    3. Alexy 31 October 2015 04: 12 New
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      Even if you create such a plane. Who will fly them. Just imagine what kind of overload a pilot should withstand. A drone, a missile, yes, but a manned aircraft no, thank you.
  2. inkass_98 30 October 2015 07: 27 New
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    such an aircraft could climb to a height of more than 23 km.

    So this is not a panacea. And stealth will not help against the C-300, especially against the C-400, which can already deal with hypersonic targets at altitudes of 30 km.
    1. Mikhail Krapivin 30 October 2015 21: 27 New
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      And by the time the hypersound arrives and goes into the stream, the S-500, or even the S-600, will appear.
      1. gridasov 30 October 2015 21: 42 New
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        Do not be naive. The fact is that new technologies for achieving and stable flight in hypersound will pull a whole range of new developments. Therefore, at a certain lead time period, priorities will be in all areas and the flight of aircraft and missiles, as well as all means of their destruction.
  3. sa-ag 30 October 2015 07: 51 New
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    maybe the Chinese have a glider with solid propellant rocket motors, and accelerates it to 5M?
    1. Vadim237 30 October 2015 11: 01 New
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      One of the projects of the M 19 as a bomber, to accelerate to 6M, he had to use jet engines powered by hydrogen.
      1. NordUral 30 October 2015 13: 04 New
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        I will add. And how long ago it was, it is a pity that the stupid leadership of the USSR enthusiastically listened to the United States. But everything was feasible with our potential.
      2. NordUral 30 October 2015 13: 05 New
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        And one more option, a real project. It is a pity that Myasischev was blocked off the path to space. The decrepit and not too intellectual elite of the USSR from the second half of the 50s could only make our developers copy, blocking the way for our pioneer developments.
        1. Vadim237 30 October 2015 14: 46 New
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          The most elaborate of the VKS hypersonic projects was Tu 2000, but the collapse of the USSR buried everything.
        2. Yars 30 October 2015 19: 10 New
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          after the death of Stalin, the Trotskyists deliberately did not allow the USSR to go far!
  4. Magic archer 30 October 2015 08: 27 New
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    By the way, the Americans did not believe that the Chinese would create a ballistic PCR! So far, these rumors have not been confirmed by intelligence! So it is not worth it to be skeptical. We should continue to work in this area
    1. adept666 30 October 2015 11: 14 New
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      Until these rumors were confirmed by intelligence!
      It’s not enough to make a rocket, it’s important to teach it to hit the target. Shooting at a moving target is not shooting at a plotted area on the ground. For a stationary target, our ballistic anti-ship missiles fell already at the beginning of the second half of the 20th century (and the target was a surface stationary small-sized (<2000 t.)) Development was considered not promising.
      So do not be completely skeptical.
      When they have gas turbine engines of the level of at least our AL-31 on conventional aircraft, then it will be possible to talk about some kind of flying laboratory on ramjet, but for now it's all blowing dust into the eyes. IMHO.
      1. edge 31 October 2015 17: 02 New
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        Quote: adept666
        When they will have gas turbine engines of at least our AL-31 level

        shouts loudest than all - “hold the thief”, the thief himself.
        1. adept666 31 October 2015 20: 21 New
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          shouts loudest than all - “hold the thief”, the thief himself.
          Why is this abstract philosophy?
    2. edge 31 October 2015 17: 00 New
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      Quote: Magic Archer
      By the way, the Americans did not believe that the Chinese would create a ballistic PCR! So far, these rumors have not been confirmed by intelligence! So it’s not worth it to be skeptical.

      - I’ve bought everything I said, I’ll take it myself. Damask. Thank you, Ryu comrade, Chinese nastya for us.
  5. Engineer 30 October 2015 08: 57 New
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    What a mess in the article, horror! PAK Yes, it will not be hypersonic, and bombers do not do anything based on missiles! Sarmat will not be equipped with the so-called Yu-71, because no one will use a heavy rocket launcher to launch one Yu-71, when lighter ones can be used. This is just stupid. Hypersonic missile cannot actively maneuver, cannot! There are crazy overloads, it just falls apart! Well, I already wrote a lot about the Chinese “developments”.
    1. edge 31 October 2015 17: 08 New
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      Quote: Engineer
      Hypersonic missile cannot actively maneuver, cannot! There are crazy overloads, it just falls apart! Well, I already wrote a lot about the Chinese “developments”.

      this is disputed, you have an example of a flurry torpedo - now it is being finalized specifically on the subject of controllability. Another project was launched in the Soviet Union when the aircraft going in a plasma shell .... and atomic engines were developed in the interests of the air force.
  6. FID
    FID 30 October 2015 09: 01 New
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    The manned vehicle will NOT be able to maneuver in hypersound ... Already at supersonic overloads of up to 9g reach, not every pilot will survive. "Blackbird" only reaches 3M in a straightforward manner, try to maneuver at 3M, I think the turning radius will be hoo .....
    1. Justme 30 October 2015 12: 19 New
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      We take the school formula ... set the speed to 5M and the overload to 5g
      It turns a turning radius of 60 km.
      1. Bad_gr 30 October 2015 12: 56 New
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        If my memory serves me right, the radius of turn of the Blackbird at a cruising speed of 150 km. Here you also need to take into account the strength characteristics of these aircraft.

        Correct if I am mistaken.
      2. FID
        FID 30 October 2015 16: 12 New
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        Quote: JustMe
        We take the school formula ... set the speed to 5M and the overload to 5g
        It turns a turning radius of 60 km.

        Let's try - from the school formula - the turning radius is: speed squared divided by acceleration ... Roughly - speed is 330 * 5 = 1650 m / s, squared - 2722500, divided by 50 (5g), we get about 60 km ...
  7. Trigger-Happy 30 October 2015 09: 53 New
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    Everything with regards to hypersound, with a person inside, has no future at this stage of development. Only drones and strike weapons.
    1. Vadim237 30 October 2015 10: 10 New
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      Even as it has, now Germany, the UK, the United States are developing hypersonic airliners and spaceships.
      1. kpd
        kpd 30 October 2015 11: 55 New
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        Spaceships - maybe someday ...
        But hypersonic airliners ... do not remind me why Concorde does not fly?
        1. Vadim237 30 October 2015 14: 40 New
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          It turned out to be too noisy and expensive to operate, but in the future all these problems will be solved already in new aircraft.
        2. PSih2097 30 October 2015 20: 54 New
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          Quote: kpd
          Do not remind me why Concorde does not fly?

          because why the Tu-144 does not fly ...
        3. edge 31 October 2015 17: 14 New
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          Quote: kpd
          But hypersonic airliners ... do not remind me why Concorde does not fly?

          however, the Myasishchev t-4 flew. it was simply not visible at the time. In 1941, and the 57-mm anti-tank gun of Grabin was not adopted into service due to excessive power. Goals for it appeared only in the summer of the 43rd year.
  8. forumow 30 October 2015 09: 54 New
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    IMHO atmospheric hypersound is generally not for military use, even for long-range missiles. Unless to increase the range of SAM or universal missiles (SAM / RCC) with a relatively small range, a scramjet can be useful. The high-energy characteristics of the power plant and strong aerodynamic heating make such aircraft incompatible with the current stealth trend. All SPRN satellite systems will literally shout about the launch of such an apparatus (they track strong heat sources) and, unlike ballistic missiles, will be able to conduct it throughout the flight, giving the anti-aircraft defense forces time to prepare for repulsing the strike. With guidance on such missiles, there will also be no big problems, a rather passive infrared seeker - such missiles will be able to intercept GLA at a great range and completely autonomously. It's worth it? Spending huge amounts of money to get weapons with dubious effectiveness.
    Recently, the VKS command announced plans to create an analogue of the American GMD system - long-range missile defense, with more capabilities than the latter, IMHO bearing in mind similar goals. In the past, in the USSR, in the framework of plans to create a strategic non-nuclear deterrence system Sozvezdie-R, providing for the development of a series of long-range missiles for various purposes, based on the medium-range missile complex RSD-10 Pioneer, an extra-long missile was also planned. Apparently something like this should be expected now.
    1. Mikhail Krapivin 30 October 2015 21: 55 New
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      I liked everything in your post, except for the flag next to your avatar :)
    2. gridasov 30 October 2015 22: 03 New
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      You are mistaken. This is a task for the “first-grader” in how to distribute magnetic power flows on the hull so that the aircraft is not only visible and audible, but also not visible since the plasma is a “broadband disturbance” (if simplified as much as possible) and select contact parameters from it with the Earth is easier than simple, so as not only to get away from contact, but also to misinform the enemy.
      1. forumow 31 October 2015 07: 09 New
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        For each "bolt" there is its own "nut" and vice versa!
    3. edge 31 October 2015 17: 18 New
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      Quote: forumow
      All SPRN satellite systems will literally scream about the launch of such an apparatus (they track strong heat sources) and, unlike ballistic missiles, will be able to conduct it throughout the flight, giving the anti-missile defense forces time to prepare to repel the strike

      nonsense, hypersound is the afterburner mode of operation in the stratosphere, i.e. almost in low orbits where the minimum air resistance
      1. forumow 31 October 2015 20: 04 New
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        Even a minimal atmosphere will warm up the aircraft at high speeds. The primary factor is the speed of collision with air molecules. Watch any animated film showing the entry into the atmosphere of spaceships / landing capsules or meteorites / asteroids.
  9. Dimon19661 30 October 2015 10: 06 New
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    The author put everything together in a heap of little speculation and rumors. The Chinese still have problems with the engines of 4th generation aircraft, the 5th generation aircraft are at the level of not very clear photos. But it turns out that the hypersound is in full order ....
    1. edge 31 October 2015 17: 22 New
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      Quote: Dimon19661
      The author has put everything together in a heap of mala, continuous speculation and rumors.

      rumors, rumors and screams are the main, new-fangled trend today.
  10. Sochi 30 October 2015 10: 12 New
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    damn, they still have not solved the problem with the heat resistance of turbine blades for aircraft engines ... and then the casing of the device can withstand high temperatures? Narrow-eyed lie, oh lie.
    1. Vadim237 30 October 2015 10: 56 New
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      Most likely, cobalt will become a heat-resistant material for this device.
      1. remy 30 October 2015 11: 37 New
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        or rather, tungsten, or rather its alloys.
        there are technologies for the production of plates and the subsequent assembly of the apparatus body by arc welding in special chambers.
        By the way, in the construction of nuclear submarines of the 4th generation
        for reference:
        - Tungsten melting point 3422 degrees, density 19,25 gram / cm3
        - Cobalt melting point 1494 degrees, density 8,9 grams / cm3
        1. Mountain shooter 30 October 2015 12: 16 New
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          What do you dislike about titanium or zirconium? The problem is not only the rigidity of the lining, heated by the oncoming flow - for this there is the experience of the Shuttles and the Buran. The problem is - and where to put this excess heat so that the interiors of such an aircraft do not “weld”. And so, there are materials and more refractory than tungsten.
          1. gridasov 30 October 2015 12: 31 New
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            Heat is the gradient of the corresponding processes. You can not create it, so you do not fight with it later.
          2. voldemar_k 30 October 2015 15: 47 New
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            Who said they will use pure kerosene on their shelves? Indeed, the conditions of hypersonic flight (high skin temperature) greatly simplify the use of water and methane as fuel (СН4 + 2Н2О + (T + kat) => СО2 + 4Н2). We had a similar project, even widely discussed. It is possible that some developments on this project came to China. So anything is possible
          3. edge 31 October 2015 17: 26 New
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            Quote: Mountain Shooter
            And so, there are materials and more refractory

            yeah, they would also be hundreds of tons ......
        2. Vadim237 30 October 2015 14: 36 New
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          The tungsten body will be quite heavy, here you have to make a molybdenum frame, and the lining of graphite composites, for one problem of metal creep when heated more or less will come to naught.
      2. gridasov 30 October 2015 11: 45 New
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        An increase or even a change in temperature is a process that is a gradient of a change in magnetic force flows. In air, these are mainly processes associated with the ionization of the surface of the expiration of the aircraft body. Therefore, an increase in supersonic speeds not only increases the surface temperature itself, but also the spin shift of the direction of these magnetic force flows. This means that issues need to be solved radically different than these primitive methods.
      3. gridasov 30 October 2015 12: 28 New
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        Simple alloyed steels assembled as multilayer structures can simultaneously serve as induction devices that form the corresponding magnetic fluxes matching tasks in order to increase the braking process or weaken the polarization, if I may say so. Alloy steels are precisely the magnets in ionization processes. Just the circuits need to be properly disconnected.
        The search for any material is a decision of a private level. That is, any material has positive boundary parameters for its use. And you need to create processes in which the properties of materials will have a dominant role and secondary. For example, magnetization is a dominant. And other properties are secondary
        By the way, if you trace the history of the forms of aircraft, then the Chinese version has a whole range of parameters that do not fit into the trend. In addition, it has well-grounded negative effects.
        1. mosquit 30 October 2015 19: 27 New
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          Interesting ... laughing
          1. 4thParasinok 31 October 2015 13: 53 New
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            Quote: mosquit
            Interesting ... laughing

            I agree, so many "specialists" came running ... wink laughing
            I wonder when the full moon?
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  11. Tishka 30 October 2015 13: 27 New
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    You can believe, you can not believe, but work in this direction is necessary! Otherwise, you can be left behind, and not by one generation in the development of a new one! As it was already, when the ball was ruled not by engineers, but by "effective" managers!
  12. Aleksandr1959 30 October 2015 13: 46 New
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    Work on hypersonic aircraft was carried out as part of the program "Maximum b" and "Maximum R" during the Soviet era.

    MiG 301/321


    In the period 1975-1989. The MiG Design Bureau, under the leadership of N.Z. Matyuk, was developing a hypersonic hydrocarbon-fueled aircraft.

    It is too early to talk about the role of a hypersonic interceptor in the absence of a hypersonic enemy in the late eighties and early nineties, the USA did not conduct large-scale work in this area. Moreover, the creation of an interceptor with such a range of speeds ran into a number of associated problems, for example, the need to create appropriate air-to-air weapons.

    Obviously, the main purpose of the project 301/321 was the fight against aircraft carrier strike groups, that is, the creation of an aircraft capable of replacing the Tu-22M3, as well as reconnaissance. Obviously, the adoption of such a machine was not planned until the end of the century, since the design of the Sukhoi Design Bureau with a similar purpose - the “Product 54C” bomber - had a high priority.
    1. gridasov 30 October 2015 13: 56 New
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      If we focus only on parameters that will allow us to prevail in the air in front of the enemy, then nothing will be achieved. One must think in terms of the fact that there are objective laws of physics that can be used, strengthened, or weakened. We must strive to fly as it is possible according to the level of technology that has already been achieved and allow us to create engines that correspond to our time. We rely on the ideas of the nineteenth century.
      1. Aleksandr1959 30 October 2015 14: 21 New
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        The above topic related to the 80s of the last century.
      2. mosquit 30 October 2015 19: 22 New
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        Present something!
        Write the formula laughing
        1. gridasov 30 October 2015 19: 44 New
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          Modern man uses computational mathematics based on binary logic. This math is based on the function of the variable value of a number. Therefore, the calculations of fixed parameters are inaccurate and approximate, and the number of input and output calculation parameters is limited. Using the function of a constant value of a number, it is possible to use multivalued logic and analysis to implement any parameter of the system as a system in which the disposition of any “solution” or mathematical event is considered as an element of variability comparable with other processes. Therefore, even super-high-potential turbulent or further “on a scale” energy processes are considered to be precisely simulated and analyzed, of course, “by machine”. Based on this, there are no formulas. There is a multipolarized analysis and construction of a local mathematical space of events according to the limiting parameters of its development. . If I may say so. Sorry for the simplicity of reasoning.
          1. Aleksandr1959 30 October 2015 21: 12 New
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            The people do not understand.
            1. Rader 30 October 2015 23: 04 New
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              Quote: gridasov
              Modern man uses computational mathematics based on binary logic. This math is based on the function of the variable value of a number. Therefore, the calculations of fixed parameters are inaccurate and approximate, and the number of input and output calculation parameters is limited. Using the function of a constant value of a number, it is possible to use multivalued logic and analysis to implement any parameter of the system as a system in which the disposition of any “solution” or mathematical event is considered as an element of variability comparable with other processes. Therefore, even super-high-potential turbulent or further “on a scale” energy processes are considered to be precisely simulated and analyzed, of course, “by machine”. Based on this, there are no formulas. There is a multipolarized analysis and construction of a local mathematical space of events according to the limiting parameters of its development. . If I may say so. Sorry for the simplicity of reasoning.


              And now, if possible, the same thing, but "according to the workers and peasants" laughing

              Excuse me, / gridasov /, but not all people studied at universities (especially not all at technical) ... Your posts can cause an inferiority complex among the people ... wink hi
              1. gridasov 31 October 2015 09: 50 New
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                Is that in its simplest form. Numbers have a property that is still not used. It consists in a property or function, which is expressed by a constant value of a number. They do not need to be added, subtracted, etc. they can be correlated and, accordingly, local spaces can be constructed with an incredible capacity of variations not in a linear vector, as we do now, but simultaneously in all vectors of each number. This does not mean that old methodologies need to be denied. This means that we can move on to the analytical distribution mechanism for using numbers. This will allow us to analyze the level of high-potential processes - those to which we could not even get into the analysis.
                1. Vadim237 31 October 2015 12: 19 New
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                  And technically you can describe such an engine.
                  1. gridasov 31 October 2015 14: 02 New
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                    Actually, I would like the Russians to have priority on such technical solutions. The life of the inventor or discoverer of new technologies is short, and the priority for subsequent generations is a necessary thing. Indeed, many would like to own such an engine, or at least an understanding of the direction where to move.
                    Therefore, with hints, I have long described individual design features. In any case, you need to understand what is key in the centrifugal rotation of the rotor and how to combine this with the energy carrier in the form of a hydro-gas-dynamic flow. Unfortunately, physicists pay little attention to the key issues of precisely the conversion of the potential energy of the stream that is in contact with the surfaces of the outflow. The engine is so simple that it is technologically not much more difficult to manufacture the same propeller or propeller, but the physical processes taking place in it are fundamentally opposite to what is now being carried out in such similar devices. Imagine that the basic foundations of such a fundamental design is the basis for the development of all promising aircraft engines. They are changing approaches to solving the movement of surface and underwater floating structures. Distribution principles at the output parts of the structure allow solving fundamentally new issues of hovercraft. One engine is enough to distribute all flows or concentrate them in one direction. Structurally, the engine allows you to redistribute the directed output stream in all its potential at one moment in the directly opposite direction. Despite the fact that such decisions have already been made, but in our case it is extremely relevant. The potential potential for such an engine is unlimited in the future, contrary to modern principled methods on which modern turbines and engines based on them work. This is a small part of opportunities and open prospects. By the way, there have always been many fools who are skeptical of this, but they are not responsible for anything. So chat your own. And we will have to answer for all our words. Therefore, it makes no sense to dissemble. Having said “A”, you will have to say “B”
                    1. Anatole 2 November 2015 09: 34 New
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                      I remember the dialogue in one of the topics about a simple device, where the essence came down to using the flow energy. Because it is not possible to increase rotation speeds without fear of destruction under current principles. If it is impossible to “unfasten” the blades from the flow moving radially, the Coanda effect cannot be fooled by the EMF problem, the transition of laminar levels to turbulent ones, breakdown at the tips on the medium, not to mention centrifugal ones. Those. we have a plug not only in the device of the "blade on the shelf of history", but on the method and method of using the elasticity properties of the flight medium. Technologies where all the "positive extremes" can be combined in a completely new type of device?
                      1. gridasov 2 November 2015 11: 52 New
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                        The device itself is secondary-derivative. The main thing is to understand that if a space is filled with a substance of any dimension (i.e. gas for example), then it has a VECTOR OF ITS MOTION at every point of this space and a point of this substance. And the most important thing is that each such point has simultaneously two motion vectors. As soon as the human mind begins to accept this one-time duality of the property of motion, then it becomes clear not why the effects of COanda, Magnus and many others exist, but why such processes are needed. Therefore, the flow cannot be "detached" from the blade. It can be re-polarized. In other words, there cannot be a zero balance. It can be either an energy-consuming process or with an excess of energy transformations, but only up to certain limits. Therefore, we need to talk only about the algorithmic processes of not only analysis, but also such sequential processes when the excess energy is compensated by its absorption.
                        You see, it is very important to understand exactly the mathematical essence of the description of all these processes. I will say briefly. From any fixed value of numbers that will be accepted as a natural series of numbers, IT IS NOT possible to construct an infinite series of numbers. But this also means that from the numbers of the nat series one can construct series with large algorithmic sequences. This also means that the space in which these system series can be built on all coordinate systems and always taking into account the elements of motion. Then it becomes clear what Poincare meant and what is behind it and why it is needed. It may be difficult, but the justifications are exhaustive.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. edge 31 October 2015 17: 32 New
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        Quote: gridasov
        We must strive to fly as it is possible according to the level of technology that has already been achieved and allow us to create engines that correspond to our time. We rely on the ideas of the nineteenth century.

        it’s just not possible for loners, but when the state needs it, it creates laboratories and everything goes as it should ...
        1. gridasov 31 October 2015 17: 57 New
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          Absolutely right! Alone, this is fundamentally impossible. But at the same time everyone requires a working sample. Therefore, we are working towards popularization for and through those people who understand the essence of the problem. Naturally, this causes a lot of bewilderment and sometimes "frank attitude". And it’s absolutely true that everything has its time.
  13. voldemar_k 30 October 2015 15: 44 New
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    Why does everyone think that the Chinese cannot make hypersound?
    Firstly: they learn fast and I’m sure they already know how to do a lot.
    Secondly: in the 90s they cheaply took, sometimes simply stole, our developments, something that we did not have time to give to the Americans on the basis of passionate love, sometimes together with their creators.
    Thirdly: in the late 90s and early 2000s, it was very popular to lecture at Chinese universities. And read them, quite legally, the main designer of the products.
    Fourth: Who said they would use pure kerosene on their shelves? Indeed, the conditions of hypersonic flight (high skin temperature) greatly simplify the use of water and methane as fuel (СН4 + 2Н2О + (T + kat) => СО2 + 4Н2). We had a similar project, even widely discussed. It is possible that some developments on this project came to China. So anything is possible
    1. FID
      FID 30 October 2015 16: 14 New
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      The conversation is not about that - they will do it, they will not do it ... Everything can be done. This device will not be able to maneuver with the MAN on board, the pilot will simply die from overloads!
      1. gridasov 30 October 2015 18: 37 New
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        Only technologies based on controlled magnetic force processes can allow an aircraft to fly at its ultimate levels, and a person can provide levels of its viability inside this aircraft, as a structure inside another structure.
        1. Evgeny_Lev 30 October 2015 21: 34 New
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          then he will not need wings with stabilizers ...
          1. gridasov 30 October 2015 21: 50 New
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            Well, after all, everyone knows the physical effects, including Magnus. Therefore, an increase in the difference in polarization at the edges of the flight object due to ionization will cause the moment of rotation of the aircraft. You remember that high flight speeds cause increased effort on the pilot control lever. However, the problem is that remember where the zones of destruction of the wing surface are and you should think about why, and for the same reason, destructive processes occur on the hull. The rationale is obvious. Therefore, it is natural that stability stabilizers on various planes are either not needed, or stabilization is carried out by the distribution of magnetic power flows around the housing, by appropriate methods and methods
      2. voyaka uh 1 November 2015 11: 31 New
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        So he doesn’t have a cab (in the pictures). He is unmanned
        it's okay
  14. Megatron 30 October 2015 18: 31 New
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    I’m not sure that in the near future hypersound will be in demand.
    If the same Drozdom could effectively fight already MIG-25.
  15. mosquit 30 October 2015 19: 20 New
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    Of course, the Chinese "comrades", having failed to bring the resources of their turbojet engines to 500 hours, boldly took up the global technological project - Hypersound.
    One hundred times URA !!! fellow
    Article - minus ..
    The epilogue "pleased" ... What is what? What does Hypersound have to do with it?

    In terms of creating a new reconnaissance aircraft, American developments seem more realistic. At the end of August 2015, information appeared that Lockheed Martin had begun to create an “invisible” reconnaissance aircraft that would replace the old U-2. The main difference between the new aircraft will be the use of stealth technology, which should make the aircraft inconspicuous for air defense radars. In this case, the aircraft is supposed to combine all the best that the U-2 aircraft has and the Global Hawk drone. According to the designs of designers such an aircraft could climb to a height of more than 23 km.

  16. Mentat 30 October 2015 21: 12 New
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    This "news" is from the same opera as the mega-airship-hunter for aircraft carriers, which rises by 100 km on fans (with a theoretical maximum of 50 km).

    What is another hypersound when the Chinese are unable to copy the century-old engines (they’re not even talking about creating a new one), because they don’t have the necessary knowledge in materials science and metalworking? The author of the "news" smoked or tasted mushrooms?
  17. NIKNN 30 October 2015 21: 40 New
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    According to him, one of the promising areas in which hypersonic aircraft can be used is air reconnaissance.


    This is what kind of reconnaissance equipment in the plasma will work?
    They are realizing hypersound, and I hope soon, only in the near future, it is unlikely that it will be possible to implement any tasks other than flight on this device until there is a next generation of avionics capable of operating in these conditions. Not a specialist, but I'm afraid the principles of work in a plasma environment still need to be discovered.
    1. gridasov 30 October 2015 21: 55 New
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      But after all, everyone knows that plasma processes are accompanying the breakdown of email. magnetic circuit. It’s just that these circuits are different, and therefore, so that the ionization processes on the surface of the aircraft body or rocket’s discharge do not cause plasma effects, it’s just that, again, the “circuits” should be turned out like a bottle of KLEIN, then ... think that then. Everything is obvious.
    2. Xsanchez 31 October 2015 00: 42 New
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      Tube equipment operates in such conditions.
      1. gridasov 31 October 2015 09: 53 New
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        of course ! Because the processes in the lamps occur in a shielded environment. But such shielding can be made “layered” in depth to increase the density of magnetic force interactions and not due to external influence factors such as lamp glass, but due to the potential of the contour, which is a connecting medium for electronic binding. components.
  18. Atigay 31 October 2015 00: 09 New
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    The Chinese, who do not copy, will re-buy, would be the goods. In China, there is now a transition from quantity to quality. I agree with a comrade who showed that after reaching 5M a com of unexplored problems will begin, the solution of which will require Russian-German brains. By the way, who said that they are not there?
    1. edge 31 October 2015 17: 40 New
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      Quote: Atygay
      The Chinese, who do not copy, will re-buy, would be the goods.

      Nope. They have a rapidly aging nation, another 10-15 years and they will begin to eat up their money. Here, to provide finance, they create, wherever possible, technology parks
  19. Xsanchez 31 October 2015 00: 40 New
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    Quote: Civil
    Remember remember how we and I including:
    1. The Chinese do not finish building the Varangian - finish building.
    2. Cannot copy SU-33.
    3. No landing systems.

    Maybe enough to live in illusions?

    We, too, many did not believe in Sputnik until they started! They said: it was lucky, with whom it does not happen! Until Gagarin did not fly. And why: they set a specific task, concentrated on it, gathered resources for it, strained their brains. And why did everyone decide that China was not able to do the same, both with brains and with their resources more than ours (like the USA and the USSR in the 50s), but we could! Here, as they say: they have no choice or hypersound, or the West will gobble up, much less the first time.
  20. Mentat 31 October 2015 00: 58 New
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    Quote: Xsanchez
    Quote: Civil
    Remember remember how we and I including:
    1. The Chinese do not finish building the Varangian - finish building.
    2. Cannot copy SU-33.
    3. No landing systems.

    Maybe enough to live in illusions?

    We, too, many did not believe in Sputnik until they started! They said: it was lucky, with whom it does not happen! Until Gagarin did not fly. And why: they set a specific task, concentrated on it, gathered resources for it, strained their brains. And why did everyone decide that China was not able to do the same, both with brains and with their resources more than ours (like the USA and the USSR in the 50s), but we could! Here, as they say: they have no choice or hypersound, or the West will gobble up, much less the first time.

    Point out the breakthroughs of Chinese science and technology over the past decades. To get rid of illusions.

    Do not confuse the USSR and China with money.
    Not only did the USSR really make a number of breakthroughs in science, before it was the Russian Empire, which had been developing science for centuries, and China, the British Empire was driving into the primitive system, figuratively speaking, the Opium Wars, when half of China was stoned.

    Therefore, even with a ton of money, China cannot suck its own scientific thought out of a finger or cosmic vacuum. It needs to be carefully developed and nurtured, which requires effort, money and, most importantly, a lot of time.
    1. Xsanchez 31 October 2015 01: 06 New
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      China has no choice: either strain its sphincter, or they will lag far behind, and then they will be crushed.
      Therefore, they will seek out all possibilities in this area: theft, bribery, copying, and their developments. Do not underestimate them!
    2. gridasov 31 October 2015 10: 00 New
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      It is absolutely true that without scientific traditions, succession in a scientific school, without those mistakes that we know about and try to circumvent them, without the country itself, which throws from side to side and the "mystical" processes in which geniuses and talents are born. Without all this, apparently, conditions are impossible under which the Russian people still stand at the forefront of humanity and in its new achievements in science and technology.
    3. edge 31 October 2015 17: 45 New
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      Quote: Mentat
      Point out the breakthroughs of Chinese science and technology over the past decades. To get rid of illusions.

      over the centuries, Arabs invented gunpowder, and the Chinese attributed to themselves, the same we see now. The mental system of the electorate cannot be redone for 2 decades, millennia are needed here ....
  21. Dalnegorec1 31 October 2015 02: 08 New
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    Accounted for 1977-1978. work on SR-71, performed photocontrol on the radar in Primorye. They walked at a speed of about 2400. Most often they did one lap. Less often two. Approaching the border of a hundred kilometers. And February 23, 1978. arranged a gift: made three circles. What did not repeat earlier and later. This was probably a kind of congratulation from the "partners". After the second round of SR-71, the commander gave the command to remove the film and send it to the developer. And my inner voice says: do not rush, do not rush! But, so-and-so, he doesn’t say why you should not rush. At the KP, I changed the film, but there is no more to replace it. It is necessary to show the films and reload the cassettes that have been freed up in a new way. Chef yelling: remove the films, in the development! But at other stations you can only remove - there is nothing to replace. But his chief is oppressed; shoot films. The chef is yelling, but I remember that my inner voice spoke to me, but did not talk about it, the chief will not understand. He yells, I pretend that I am ready to break the line, but how can I sabotage the order. And here is the voice from behind the tablet (not to be confused with a computer tablet). The two-cut-off tablet player realized that the SR-71 had gone to the third round. Then the boss only changed the subject of his ora, but did not stop it. Photo control, photo control !!! Did you remove the films? No, I say I didn’t take it off, there was nothing to change. So the SR-71 will leave the third round, then I’ll change it. He won’t go to the fourth, there’s not enough fuel, and he found out everything he wanted, he made a present. Now it can bring down home. And I’ll calmly take off the films, show them, fill in new ones and establish where they should be. That was February 23, three months before the demobilization ...
  22. Vladimir 23rus 31 October 2015 07: 30 New
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    The main difference of the new aircraft will be the use of stealth technology, which should make the aircraft invisible to radar air defense systems
    Saw Shura Saw laughing
  23. gridasov 2 November 2015 18: 50 New
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    In the end, apparently it’s worth saying that techies and "no offense to them said" themselves will not come to an understanding of the key foundations for achieving hyperspeed, but I’ll explain to those who imagine themselves a physicist. An elementary example .. allows us to observe such a physical event, when two "speeds" coexist at the same point in space. These speeds combine one of its maximum value, and the other minimum. At the same time, it is neither theoretically nor practically possible to separate these speeds. Paradox!!?? No ! It only says that speed has a dimension. Not speed having parameters of the magnitude of what we mean by this, but speed having a dimension in terms of the magnitude of the combined types of speeds. But! since we have critical parameters of the combined dimension, then we have everything that is between these maxima and minima. Therefore, to say that it is important to know is to say nothing. This is a law that does not obey the degree of our neither objective nor subjective assessment. Therefore, as a conclusion, it must be said that a change in the linear velocity of any object in space (in this case, I excluded the definition in the wording that space cannot be “empty”) causes a speed that is completely different in nature and definition, but which is inextricable with this called linear speed. This is the corny "SPIN". The determination of the dimension of this spin is not determined by the method of computational mathematics that a person uses now.
  24. bad
    bad 3 November 2015 14: 31 New
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    Quote: FinnTroll
    The Chinese can not reproduce materials in particular the blades of the development of the 70s. They do not have a base for creating materials capable of withstanding the m5, not to mention a ramjet engine. Sorry here even Amerikosy who in the aircraft industry are really not stupid (although we all want to believe it) poke and bob about that year. IMHO botva is all about the fact that they (in the sense of the Chinese) have experienced something, completely agree with the comrade Saburov.
    I agree .. in China there are no such technologies ..