Military Review

Isaykin: MiG-35 have great potential and can be brought to the level of the fifth generation

128
The export potential of Russian MiG fighters is very large, for example, the MiG-35 can be increased over time to the level of the 5 generation, reports RIA News statement by the head of Rosoboronexport, Anatoly Isaikin.




“There are promising models in this brand, for example, the MiG-35. There are prospects for its development to the level of the “light” fifth generation, therefore it has a very large export potential. ”- Isaykin told reporters.

According to the developers, “MiG-35 is a new combat aviation the complex, the fifth-generation information and aiming systems are integrated into the on-board electronic equipment ”. A multifunctional aircraft is capable of using high-precision ammunition for any purpose, as well as performing a number of functions that were previously assigned only to reconnaissance vehicles.
Photos used:
http://www.globallookpress.com/
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  1. Vladimyrych
    Vladimyrych 27 October 2015 18: 21 New
    93
    Твою жешь дивизию! Опять "экспортный потенциал"!!! Подумайте сначала о собственной Армии и Флоте а потом уже барыжте пока ливер не лопнет. То Китай, то Индия то еще не пойми кто. Что же стратегические технологии продаёте? Ведь нельзя зарекаться что завтра ни Китай ни Индия не встанут на сторону англосаксов или же не начнут собственную партию против России. А верхушка продаёт настолько чувствительные технологии что диву даёшся. Идиотизм просто зашкаливает.

    Quote: iConst
    Quote: Vladimir
    Think first about your own Army and Navy
    - If the Russian Aerospace Forces are not interested in this aircraft?

    Я речь не только и не столько о МИГ-35 веду. Куда ни ткни везде этот скотский лозунг - "экспортный потенциал".
    1. iConst
      iConst 27 October 2015 18: 27 New
      12
      Quote: Vladimir
      Think first about your own Army and Navy
      - If the Russian Aerospace Forces are not interested in this aircraft?
      1. veksha50
        veksha50 27 October 2015 20: 23 New
        32
        Quote: iConst
        - If the Russian Aerospace Forces are not interested in this aircraft?



        The Russian Aerospace Forces (more precisely, its leadership) stupidly ran into the development of heavy fighters, not understanding the banal thing: we need - and desperately - both heavy and light ...

        Such a strange approach does not even border on stupidity, but on something worse ...
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 27 October 2015 20: 38 New
          +8
          В данном акценте стоит очевидно говорить о том , что что у руководства нет полного системного понимания многозначности разнопланового парка самолетов. Однако здесь и проблема технологического порядка. Для такого парка нужно банально простые методы масштабности . Иными словами на одной технологии нужно создавать шкалу моделей самолетов . Поэтому и это нужно понимать , что проблема находится в глубине вопроса -создания двигателей для различной шкалы "легкости" самолетов. А сложные в производстве двигатели и не позволяют поддерживать ни производство, ни поддержку таких разных двигателей.
        2. iConst
          iConst 27 October 2015 21: 01 New
          +9
          Quote: veksha50
          The Russian Aerospace Forces (more precisely, its leadership) stupidly ran into the development of heavy fighters, not understanding the banal thing: we need - and desperately - both heavy and light ...

          Such a strange approach does not even border on stupidity, but on something worse ...
          - Чтобы проверить правильность концепции развития ВС нужны (как это не цинично звучит) "ходовые" испытания этих самых ВС.

          По поводу тяжелых и легких, а также других классов боевых самолетов - штурмовиков, фронтовых бомбардировщиков, "стратегов" и т.п., должно быть четкое понимание возможных угроз и методов противодействия этим угрозам.

          Wishlist of the military always come up against harsh reality - the capabilities of the military-industrial complex and the country's resources.

          So far, many believe that with a ratio of one F-35 (at a price) for 10 4 ++ aircraft, these 10 will still win in the battle, although there will be two after that.
          And so it is everywhere.
          1. demel2
            demel2 30 October 2015 17: 41 New
            +1
            Quote: iConst

            So far, many believe that with a ratio of one F-35 (at a price) for 10 4 ++ aircraft, these 10 will still win in the battle, although there will be two after that.
            And so it is everywhere.

            Not a correct comparison. Where to get so many pilots? Horseradish with them with pieces of iron, the lives of pilots are much more important.
        3. Velikoruss
          Velikoruss 27 October 2015 21: 51 New
          10
          Quote: veksha50
          The Russian Aerospace Forces (more precisely, its leadership) stupidly ran into the development of heavy fighters, not understanding the banal thing: we need - both desperately - both heavy and light ... Such a strange approach does not even border on stupidity, but on something worse .. .

          Лоббирование, к сожалению, даже в советские времена часто влияло на принятие решений больше, чем прагматизм и целесообразность для государства. А про "сейчас" и говорить надоело
        4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 October 2015 22: 14 New
          +7
          Quote: veksha50
          The Russian Aerospace Forces (more precisely, its leadership) stupidly ran into the development of heavy fighters, not understanding the banal thing: we need - and desperately - both heavy and light ...

          The Russian Aerospace Forces would have long formed an order for the MiG-35 if it had been. But he is not - there is a demonstrator with unfinished equipment (for example, AFAR). And how long it will take to fine-tune is extremely difficult to say.
          1. tomket
            tomket 27 October 2015 22: 50 New
            +2
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            The Russian Aerospace Forces would have long formed an order for the MiG-35 if it had been. But he is not - there is a demonstrator with unfinished equipment (for example, AFAR). And how long it will take to fine-tune is extremely difficult to say.

            Well, not tired of stupid writing? MiG-35 is identical to MiG-29CUB. They will bring AFAR, it will be with AFAR. What are you in one word that rested on the horn? The Americans f-16 with AFAR and without it flies beautifully.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 October 2015 11: 17 New
              10
              Quote: tomket
              Well, not tired of stupid writing? The MiG-35 is identical to the MiG-29KUB.

              You would have less expression :) I certainly understand that in the designations of the MiG the devil himself will break his leg, but this is not a reason to be rude.
              The MiG-29KUB (9-47) is a two-seat analogue of the deck MiG-29K (9-41). But not the MiG-29K, the development of which was abandoned in 1991 (9-31), but the one that was delivered to the Indians along with Vikramaditya.
              In parallel with the MiG-29K (9-31), whose history ended in 1991, the MiG-29M (9-15) was created. He lived already a year longer than the MiG-29K (9-31) - the state interrupted him in 1992. Later they tried to develop it (MiG-29M2)
              Despite the greater unification of the MiG-29K / KUB and MiG-29M / M2, these are still different aircraft. And the MiG-35 is a development of this family
              Single MiG-35 and double MiG-35D are multipurpose fighters of the 4 ++ generation, representing the further development of MiG-29K / KUB and MiG-29M / M2 combat aircraft in the direction of increasing combat efficiency and universality, as well as improving operational characteristics.

              (taken from the RSK MiG website http://www.migavia.ru/index.php/ru/produktsiya/novoe-unifitsirovannoe-semejstvo-

              istrebitelej / mig-35-mig-35)
              Thus, the MiG-35 is not identical to the KUB, this is its development
              So, for example, as I understand it, the RD-33MK engine was installed on the KUB, the Mi-35 is equipped with the same RD-33MK, but with an advanced control system, etc.
        5. dauria
          dauria 27 October 2015 23: 45 New
          +4
          The Russian Aerospace Forces (more precisely, its leadership) stupidly ran into the development of heavy fighters, not understanding the banal thing: we need - and desperately - both heavy and light ...


          The MIG designers did not understand the commonplace thing — the Americans had a pair of F-15 and F-16 from the very beginning under the SAME Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-100 engine then 110. Because of this, both planes are getting cheaper, especially in operation- and 2- x and single engine.
          Now F-22 and F-35- under the SAME Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-119 engine (then 135)

          if you need a light one (but is it necessary? unless to sell), then only a cheap single-engine with an engine from PAK-fa. (A Mig-29 (35) continue to procrastinate to nothing)
          For me, both a fighter and a strike aircraft should be done on the same PAK-FA platform. (similar to Su-30 Su-34)
          1. tomket
            tomket 28 October 2015 00: 00 New
            +1
            Quote: dauria
            it’s only a cheap single-engine engine from PAK-fa.

            То то французы с европейцами запилили двухдвигательные самолеты , которые дают прокукарекаться "раптору".
          2. seos
            seos 29 October 2015 21: 16 New
            +1
            engines are not expensive, 2 engines per mig-29 are not much more expensive than 1st su-27
        6. NEXUS
          NEXUS 28 October 2015 09: 38 New
          +5
          Quote: veksha50
          The Russian Aerospace Forces (more precisely, its leadership) stupidly ran into the development of heavy fighters, not understanding the banal thing: we need - and desperately - both heavy and light ...

          Mig-35 is a good machine, but still a deep modernization on the 29th. Mikoyanovtsy are working (though on a personal initiative) on the 5th generation LFI by raising documents on MIG-1.44. And the army, I think, will not go MIG-35, namely A new machine, not a modernized fighter.
        7. DEfindER
          DEfindER 29 October 2015 15: 25 New
          +2
          Quote: veksha50
          Such a strange approach does not even border on stupidity, but on something worse ...

          I completely agree! They not only forgot that light fighters are needed (in NATO, for example, F-35 is being actively introduced), but also trivial about the competition of different design bureaus. There is such competition all over the world, in the states, for example lockheed and Boeing, in the USSR in general 4 KB competed .. In our case, Sukhoi, knowing that his planes will buy in any case, will not try to surpass anyone, and we may lose our legendary light fighter. I'm afraid Mig will have to work with the Chinese to survive ..
        8. Genry
          Genry 29 October 2015 22: 40 New
          +2
          Quote: veksha50
          The Russian Aerospace Forces (more precisely, its leadership) stupidly ran into the development of heavy fighters, not understanding the banal thing: we need - and desperately - both heavy and light ...

          Russian Aerospace Forces light fighter is not needed. With its short range, and with the capabilities of modern Russian air defense, all these light fighters will only be in vain occupy a place at the airport.
          The heavy SU-27 family and its development are designed to accompany bomber aircraft and have a comparable range.
      2. Prapor-527
        Prapor-527 27 October 2015 22: 38 New
        +6
        Quote: iConst
        Quote: Vladimir
        Think first about your own Army and Navy
        - If the Russian Aerospace Forces are not interested in this aircraft?

        That's it! Your mother ... When will they remember the MiG?
      3. GSH-18
        GSH-18 27 October 2015 22: 40 New
        +4
        Isaikin: MiG-35 have great potential and can be brought up to fifth generation

        Isaikin thinks that everything around is quiet ?? And he is one so clever that he can fool everyone into this ?! angry
        Чтоб "довести" миг до поколения 5, надо изготовить новый планер 5-го поколения, а это невероятно дорого по сравнению с планерами предыдущих поколений по известным причинам! Дальше, под новый планер нужно изготовить и испытать авионику , радар, системы оружия и боеприпасы! ВСЁ это означает что надо создавать НОВЫЙ самолёт, а не "доводить" то что нельзя довести в принципе! И тут встаёт резонный вопрос: А где деньги Зин?? И зачем нам ещё один самолёт (тем более с заранее заниженными параметрами) когда у нас уже практически готов самолёт 5-го поколения фирмы "Сухой" Т-50 (ПАК ФА)???
        Do we have any extra money appeared on swindlers from the Mig company ??
        Let their old-concept devices be fooled and sell them abroad, if there are anyone who wants it, I don’t mind. Although taxes will be paid to the budget even bread.
        1. tomket
          tomket 27 October 2015 23: 09 New
          +1
          Quote: GSH-18
          the extra money appeared on the swindlers from the company Mig ??

          they found the Pogossians as a swindler and they will find the Mikoyanites.
          1. Manul
            Manul 28 October 2015 00: 39 New
            11
            Quote: tomket
            they found the Pogossians as a swindler and they will find the Mikoyanites.

            Why is Poghosyan a swindler? Is he a crook? Or just a blanket pulls? With him, Dryers fly. So if they hadn’t flown, then yes - a swindler.
        2. DEfindER
          DEfindER 29 October 2015 15: 35 New
          +3
          Quote: GSH-18
          And why do we need another plane

          All my life, the USSR and the USA had a couple of planes light and heavy, and in all wars they were used in pairs, what has changed now that we don’t need lungs when a potential enemy has them?
        3. Nick
          Nick 29 October 2015 20: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: GSH-18
          Чтоб "довести" миг до поколения 5, надо изготовить новый планер 5-го поколения, а это невероятно дорого по сравнению с планерами предыдущих поколений по известным причинам!

          The glider can be left if not much hacked into the EPR. In addition, the stealth of the same F-22 is relevant only in a certain frequency range, from certain angles. The new engine for cruising supersonic and weapons is conditionally the 5 generation
          1. serverny
            serverny 30 October 2015 02: 18 New
            +1
            Cruising supersonic with missiles and PTB on an external sling is a very short-term pleasure.

            A new glider is needed not only because of the EPR - internal armament compartments and large internal tanks are needed.
            1. Nick
              Nick 30 October 2015 10: 45 New
              0
              Quote: serverny
              Cruising supersonic with missiles and PTB on an external sling is a very short-term pleasure.

              PTB then why? For actions in the far zone there are heavy vehicles. Although for some tasks it is possible to use PTB, but not as a permanent device.
      4. sinoptic
        sinoptic 28 October 2015 12: 54 New
        +4
        We are not so rich to buy cheap things :)
        I think that the military understands everything perfectly, just, apparently, priorities are set for the tasks.
        A light front-line fighter is an inexpensive and effective fighter of a real war (country by country), with losses.

        The likelihood of such a war is not very high, so with limited financial resources, priority is given to something more significant.
        Just imagine, in the store in front of you there are 2 cars expensive and not very (Mersedes, Toyota).
        Previously, you had enough money to buy both of them, but now you have enough money, but only for one of them.
        You can buy a Toyota, but the money is enough for Mercedes.
        Ask yourself, with this choice, what will you buy?

        That is why heavy fighters are a priority.
      5. Alexashka964
        Alexashka964 30 October 2015 07: 16 New
        +1
        Quote: iConst
        - If the Russian Aerospace Forces are not interested in this aircraft?

        Are you sure about that? Mr. Poghosyan does not need a competitor !!! He crushed even the civilian aircraft industry under his ass. And here Mikoyan’s design bureau crawls into the light ...
    2. Alex_Rarog
      Alex_Rarog 27 October 2015 18: 31 New
      15
      It’s necessary to live as it is, but running the state order is sour ... And so to maintain the pants and even development is enough ... In the 90s, everyone survived only through exports.
      1. aktanir
        aktanir 27 October 2015 18: 52 New
        18
        export potential or not export, and until the novelty is adopted by its own Ministry of Defense, no one will even look at it from the side - this is an important condition for future sales. MiG has long had to please something attractive with its own and foreign market, but so far there they are only engaged in repairing equipment shipped to partners for a long time. We have not yet seen anything new from the concern, and in a moment the 35 will not gain any real prospects. It is clear that against this background their dreams of the fifth generation, especially due to their own initiative interest, are ghostly and foggy.
    3. figwam
      figwam 27 October 2015 18: 34 New
      +1
      According to the developers, “MiG-35 is a new combat aviation complex,

      The only question on visibility in the radar range.
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 27 October 2015 18: 40 New
        23
        It is not clear how with the previous glider we can talk about the fifth generation? Where are the internal armament compartments, S-shaped ducts, inclined rudders, and not vertical ones, cruising supersonic on the RD-33MK?
        1. Garris199
          Garris199 27 October 2015 21: 41 New
          +4
          And AFAR is not even on it.
        2. tomket
          tomket 27 October 2015 22: 51 New
          +2
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          S-shaped ducts

          They are not on the T-50. what now?
          1. Lt. Air Force stock
            Lt. Air Force stock 27 October 2015 22: 58 New
            0
            Quote: tomket
            They are not on the T-50. what now?

            They are not on the first prototypes, they can appear on serial ones.
            1. tomket
              tomket 27 October 2015 23: 07 New
              +2
              Quote: Lt. air force reserve
              They are not on the first prototypes, they can appear on serial ones.

              how will they appear there? blown him up?
              1. Lt. Air Force stock
                Lt. Air Force stock 28 October 2015 12: 07 New
                +3
                Quote: tomket
                how will they appear there? blown him up?

                There are many plausible pictures on the net of how this can be done.

                1. tomket
                  tomket 28 October 2015 12: 46 New
                  0
                  тут хорошо видно что "просторов" для маневра в конструкции с воздухозаборниками практически нет.
                  1. Lt. Air Force stock
                    Lt. Air Force stock 28 October 2015 12: 54 New
                    +1
                    Quote: tomket
                    тут хорошо видно что "просторов" для маневра в конструкции с воздухозаборниками практически нет.

                    This is a strange photo, look at this one, the engine is at an angle (look at the nozzle), how can it directly go to the front air intake?
                  2. Lt. Air Force stock
                    Lt. Air Force stock 28 October 2015 12: 58 New
                    0
                    Here's another photo, look at the nozzle and front air intake.
    4. NordUral
      NordUral 27 October 2015 18: 37 New
      14
      I will subscribe to your words. In general, the slogan of profit is above all time to throw away. Such a small idea will not bring our country to good.
    5. War and Peace
      War and Peace 27 October 2015 18: 43 New
      +2
      what stealth and engine are flat? So tell me, and then immediately the 5th generation ...
      1. Observer2014
        Observer2014 27 October 2015 18: 53 New
        +6
        Isaykin: MiG-35 have great potential and can be brought to the level of the fifth generation
        It depends on what the fifth generation means.
        1. barsik92090
          barsik92090 27 October 2015 19: 02 New
          13
          But do not we immediately wave to the 6-7 generation? Very promising money and terms.
        2. Thronekeeper
          Thronekeeper 27 October 2015 19: 14 New
          +3
          Я тоже удивился. "Могут быть доведены".
          Yeah, only the fuselage and engines to change left.
          а "на основе МиГ-35"... Хотя тоже некорректно. Речь о том, что микояновцы будут лепить ЛФИ-пятёрку, со сходными ЛТХ, насколько была оная анонсирована. И, вроде, не "эконом-класс", как "Лайтнинг", а полноценную.
        3. GSH-18
          GSH-18 27 October 2015 22: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: Observer2014
          Isaykin: MiG-35 have great potential and can be brought to the level of the fifth generation
          It depends on what the fifth generation means.

          He apparently means the Chinese 5th generation lol The Chinese have their own number, they are already 7th on the way! lol
          1. The comment was deleted.
    6. Thronekeeper
      Thronekeeper 27 October 2015 19: 01 New
      25
      Firstly, from the head of Rosoboronexports it would be strange to hear about the state defense order.
      Во-вторых, поставки высокотехнологических ВВТ - главный параметр, если без обиняков говорить, вассализации, клиентизации стратегических младших партнёров. В-третьих, лучше Пе*достану по морде дать подальше от наших границ и за чужие деньги, владения базами, местораждениями и иже. И главное - сейчас стоит вопрос - выжить МиГу или нет. Для России от плана тактико-технического до доктринального удобнее Су-30СМ2, Су-35С, Т-50, МиГ-31БМ. Потому что боенагрузка ЛФИ, дальность, отсутствие "длинной руки", диаметр "зеркала" АФАР, от которого зависит дальность и "качество" обнаружения, особенно - малозаметных целей, по сравнению с сухариками - неудовлетворительна. Пока мы не можем тянуть "затыкатель дыр" вместе с ТМФИ и перехватчиками-многофункционалами. Отчасти из-за кадрового голода, что прямо не может решить экспорт. Но косвенно - бабло может победить зло, в плане повышения зарплат и открытия специальных учебных заведений, работающих в интересах ОПК.
      1. S-cream
        S-cream 27 October 2015 22: 17 New
        +4
        I will support. In the modern sky, such requirements as the range of detection of the enemy, the ability to do this before the enemy and the ability to control the enemy at the detection range come to the first place, but have already come to the fore.
        Well, the fact that MiGs are obviously inferior to the SUs in this regard should be clear to everyone.
      2. msm
        msm 30 October 2015 12: 33 New
        0
        it would be strange to hear from the head of Rosoboronexport
        Глава забывает, что не все "менеджеры", ещё и инженеры остались...
    7. mirag2
      mirag2 27 October 2015 19: 32 New
      +3
      the top sells so sensitive technology that you wonder.
      - there was no other, unfortunately.
    8. marlin1203
      marlin1203 27 October 2015 20: 07 New
      +4
      Да достали с этой малозаметностью 5 поколения и обязательным для этого новым планером. Все равно, как ни крути, летит несколько тонн металла, на реактивном двигателе, из которого вырывается пламя. Да еще след инверсионный. В общем обнаружение такого пепелаца - вопрос времени и развития технологии. И тогда все эти денежные затраты "псу под хвост".
    9. Per se.
      Per se. 27 October 2015 20: 40 New
      +9
      Quote: Vladimir
      Куда ни ткни везде этот скотский лозунг - "экспортный потенциал".
      А что Вы хотите, Максим Владимирович, у нас либеральный капитализм, а у капитализма главная политика, религия и мораль, это прибыль и деньги. Китайцам продали уже С-400 "Триумф", хотя они у нас уже содрали С-300 и составили своими клонами конкуренцию. Подобное можно сказать и по Су-35, помня продажу Су-27. Невозможно представить в советские времена, чтобы новая техника, да ещё и при её недостатке в армии Советского Союза, продавалась бы на экспорт, сейчас это почти норма. Не успели ту же "Армату" сделать, уже разговоры начались о возможных продажах на экспорт. Танк "Чёрный орёл", вообще сразу видели лишь в перспективе экспортного, так и убили интересную машину, попутно хая Т-80 и танковую газовую турбину, сделав банкротом и развалив Омский танковый завод (нет конкурента, меньше проблем российским капиталистам-монополистам). Конечно, спору нет, нужно находить и рынки сбыта, и валюта не лишняя будет, но не "экспортный потенциал" должен стоять на первом месте, а потенциал нашей российской армии, остальное здесь дело "пятое".
      1. Tusv
        Tusv 27 October 2015 21: 21 New
        +5
        Quote: Per se
        It is impossible to imagine in Soviet times that new equipment, and even with its lack in the army of the Soviet Union

        She was not sold in Soviet times, but stupidly presented. Now, for Mig thirty fifths to fly, you need an investor. All this pepelats is good and the price is sky-high. Beats all competitors in terms of performance characteristics in its class, except for the weight-bearing ratio. The same Rafal is twice as expensive without a controlled thrust vector and with EPR in the palm of your hand
    10. GSH-18
      GSH-18 27 October 2015 21: 34 New
      -1
      Isaykin: MiG-35 have great potential and can be brought to the level of the fifth generation

      In the presence of Dryers of the last generations, Migami can only trade for export. Since Migi is inferior to Sushki in almost all respects! And about the comparison with the T-50, and even ashamed to speak. Any Mig on the background of Drying looks like a stripped-down export version lol So we will sell to small countries and earn loot. good
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 28 October 2015 20: 33 New
        +2
        Quote: GSH-18
        In the presence of Dryers of the last generations, Migami can only trade for export. Since Migi is inferior to Sushki in almost all respects! And about the comparison with the T-50, and even ashamed to speak. Any Mig against the background of Drying looks like a stripped-down export version so So we will sell to small countries and earn loot.

        Dear, and you apparently do not see the difference between the FRONT LIGHT FIGHTER, which is focused on the battle over the front line and the capture of the sky above it, and the HEAVY MULTI-PURPOSE FIGHTER, the task of which is to escort the bombers deep into enemy territories, delivering strikes against objects beyond in the air in general on the territory controlled by the adversary?
        There are different tasks for which these machines are created and, accordingly, different possibilities, both in range, in terms of maneuverability, and in arsenal, etc. And only a person who has a very superficial understanding of the subject of conversation can compare an EASY FRONT FIGHTER with a HEAVY MULTIFUNCTIONAL FIGHTER.
    11. The comment was deleted.
      1. Abbra
        Abbra 28 October 2015 19: 20 New
        +3
        Colleague, with expressions regarding the president and his mother, you would know your own language where you would put it! AND?
    12. rpek32
      rpek32 28 October 2015 06: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: Vladimir
      Я речь не только и не столько о МИГ-35 веду. Куда ни ткни везде этот скотский лозунг - "экспортный потенциал".

      Products must be competitive. so that people working at the enterprise receive a salary. The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation bought a certain number of aircraft, and then what? Workers to feed on air until they (planes) are knocked down / resource does not come out? Or do kettles be made while the planes are not doing? Production has nothing to do while there is no need for this aircraft in the RF Ministry of Defense
    13. Kibalchish
      Kibalchish 28 October 2015 09: 02 New
      +2
      They talk about export potential because our VKS will never buy this aircraft! Now I will run into a bunch of minuses, but I will express my opinion - as long as this aircraft is brought to mind, it will become very out of date ... They are trying to push the modernized moment 29 as a new plane. No matter how many times you upgrade it, it will never become a 5th generation airplane.
    14. Maxom75
      Maxom75 28 October 2015 09: 11 New
      0
      Ну для начала, вы его не сделаете 5-го поколения, он не строился по технологии стелс. Центроплан построен по технологии 4 и его надо будет переделывать, также воздуховоды и прочее. Почему экспортный потенциал - это намёк на Индию. Не у всех стран мира такая территория как у России - Дай Бог нам мира и процветания! Многим тяжёлые истребители не нужны. Слишком большой радиус действия, и требования по эксплуатации (много горючего и прочее). Вот только лёгкие истребители почему-то закупают со схемой однодвигательной схемой, у нас два двигателя, что ведёт к удорожанию, но и увеличению надёжности. Требования к АФАР - это требования индусов. А на счёт нашей потребности в них ничего сказать не могу, тут спецы с минобороны должны говорить. Главное не руководствоваться принципом "нужно - не нужно, бери пока деньги дают".
      1. Abbra
        Abbra 28 October 2015 21: 15 New
        0
        Why does everyone endlessly rest in the fifth generation? Kalashnikov assault rifle - what generation of a small automatic weapon? However, it is in demand and will be in demand for many more years. Also MiG. ITS MOST IMPORTANT ADVANTAGE is the possibility (and this will be confirmed by any engineer) to endless upgrades and improvements. Such, by the way, was the Me-109 at the time. The ingenious authors have created a scheme in which no one rests yet, and does not say to himself: everything, zvizdets, it is impossible to develop IT further. That is the salt!

        Add the same Mosin rifle. Century in the market! Sighting range - 2000 m. Etc.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 28 October 2015 21: 27 New
          +2
          Quote: Abbra
          Kalashnikov assault rifle - what generation of a small automatic weapon? However, it is in demand and will be in demand for many more years. Also MiG. ITS MOST IMPORTANT ADVANTAGE is the possibility (and this will be confirmed by any engineer) to endless upgrades and improvements.

          You are mistaken. The difference in AK and MIG is that each subsequent generation of fighters must (be a prerequisite) exceed the previous one. And with the development of electronic warfare systems, air defense systems of different caliber and range, radars, anti-radars, etc., as well as the very concept of strategy and tactics war requires the development of aviation. With AK, everything is easier, although processes are already going on to improved shooting systems (more accurate, convenient and killer), these are weapons for individual use. And the same MIG is a complex capable of solving much more global tasks than an automatic weapon .
    15. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 30 October 2015 09: 39 New
      -1
      Yes, they sell everything in a row ... and they will sell the MOTHERLAND .. if they have not already sold ... am
    16. andrei.yandex
      andrei.yandex 30 October 2015 09: 40 New
      0
      Во первых Индия и Китай с школьных учебников известны, что это отдельные культуры и по этому на сторону запада они встать не могут. Поэтому их могут либо принудить,как это с ними проделал запад в последние 2-3 века, либо мы сами по отношению к ним можем вести не ясные взаимоотношения, только после этого они могут "встать" на сторону англосаксов.
      But as for the MiG-35, this project began with the MiG-29M from the end of the 80s, which, judging by the fact that it didn’t go for well-known reasons, the collapse of the USSR, went into a series of stages of the MiG-29M2, because for difficult times The MiG Design Bureau was not idle, but now the next stage of the deepest modernization has been called the MiG-35 - this is for those who are not particularly versed in aviation. Therefore, from my point of view, of course, the MiG-35 is not the fifth generation, all the more, the Design Bureau itself stated in confirmation of this, fifth-generation fighter aircraft announced the beginning of work on the initiative, by the way, they wrote about this on this site on this site.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Windy
    Windy 27 October 2015 18: 31 New
    12
    Sukhoi Design Bureau will be more modest: Su-35 is declared as 4 ++. How can an MiG with an old glider become the fifth generation ?!
    1. iConst
      iConst 27 October 2015 18: 43 New
      +7
      Quote: Windy
      Sukhoi Design Bureau will be more modest: Su-35 is declared as 4 ++. How can an MiG with an old glider become the fifth generation ?!
      - Yes, the fifth generation has just no glider because of the requirements for stealth.

      And many experts believe that if the bet on stealth is not justified (and there are prerequisites for it - detecting objects, for example, along the inversion trail), then this program will be the most deafening failure of the United States and will eclipse Reagan Star Wars.

      Наши заявили о работах в области "обратной" радиолокации - когда объект засекается не по отражению радиоволн, а по поглощению: т.е. на месте любого объекта и тем более стелс-самолета будет "дырка".
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 27 October 2015 18: 54 New
        +6
        То что именовали Вы обратной радиолокацией возможно только в том случае если совместить приемник по диапазону того излучения, которые наблюдаются и сопровождаются в естественном полете. Т.е Стелс прямо стимулирует на узловых точках совмещающих угловые плоскости такие дифракционные возмущения. Но !!! Для "воспринятия" фрактального уровня таких возмущений на этих узловых точках необходима совершено новая элементная база электронных устройств. Прежде всего по уровню плотности магнитных силовых потоков. Именно такие технологии .....Есть ли понимание таких процессов у тех кто об этом мечтает?
        1. Cube123
          Cube123 27 October 2015 21: 42 New
          +4
          There was such a great man (unfortunately in the past tense) Alexander Alekseevich Lemansky. Who does not know, is the creator of the S-300 and S-400 complexes.
          Just a quote:
          "In 1964, he defended his thesis on the results of research in the field of diffraction on weakly scattering (so-called" black ") bodies, which are slightly observable aerial targets. These studies were a kind of prediction of the appearance of future invisible targets. With a deep understanding of this problems, already at the post of general designer, he will solve the problem of effectively intercepting these goals and declare that there are no invisible goals for modern air defense systems built on Almaz. ”
          Read more: http://vpk-news.ru/articles/1785
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 27 October 2015 22: 37 New
            0
            It's not that complicated. It is commonplace and it is possible to create a generator of the same level of energy potential that the plane emits - if so simplified. And then really, there can be no invisible goals. Well, except that if it does not radiate the disinformation potential of its field.
    2. GSH-18
      GSH-18 27 October 2015 21: 38 New
      +2
      Quote: Windy
      Sukhoi Design Bureau will be more modest: Su-35 is declared as 4 ++. How can an MiG with an old glider become the fifth generation ?!

      The answer is NO! They are up to the 5th generation as before the moon cancer. The usual chatter of migrants for the purpose of getting loot for a cut. They missed their chance, now the train is gone. All that remains is export. Migi in our Air Force has nowhere to stick. All niches are occupied by Sukhoi machines, and in my opinion, they deserve it yes
      1. tomket
        tomket 27 October 2015 22: 59 New
        +2
        Quote: GSH-18
        Migi in our Air Force has nowhere to stick. All niches are occupied by Sukhoi machines, and in my opinion, they deserve it

        Была такая фраза :" Отчего то мы стали строить линкоров больше чем крейсеров".Это касательно ниш в ВВС занятых Сухим. кстати. Сухой зачастую совершенно неоправдано занимает некоторые ниши.если к примеру Су-30СМ вопросов не вызывает, то вот китайский Су-30М2 нам нужен как собаке пятая нога , особенно когда идут поставки СМ. И кстати МиГи в войсках есть. 31. 29СМт и 29к. Су-33 как показало время оказались ограниченно годными. фактически бесполезными.
        1. GSH-18
          GSH-18 27 October 2015 23: 10 New
          +2
          Quote: tomket
          And by the way, there are MiGs in the troops. 31CMt and 29k.

          An important clarification, while there is still.
          Due to the obsolescence of the concept of two fighter aircraft (light / heavy) as a result of the appearance of the 5th generation. Our Air Force does not need a light fighter now. It simply does not fit into the modern doctrine of the use of the Russian Air Force. Air Force in terms of performance characteristics and other capabilities satisfy Machines of the latest generations of Su. And soon the arrival of the 5th generation T-50 aircraft (PAK FA) will begin.
          Миг не смог предложить что то новое, концептуально новое, и понятно, остался без госзаказа. А сейчас начинает нести всякую ахинею про какие то "доводки"
          aircraft built on old technologies. Well, in general, you understand me, I hope.
          Quote: tomket
          Su-33, as time has shown, turned out to be of limited use. virtually useless.

          Interesting saying. Do you mean the lack of aircraft carriers to base them? But this is not a technical problem with the aircraft.
          1. tomket
            tomket 27 October 2015 23: 17 New
            +2
            Quote: GSH-18
            Due to the obsolescence of the concept of two fighter aircraft (light / heavy) as a result of the advent of the 5 generation.

            Everyone needs it, but you don’t need ... hmm ...
            Quote: GSH-18
            Air Force in terms of performance characteristics and other capabilities satisfy Machines of the latest generations of Su.

            do not satisfy.
            Quote: GSH-18
            And soon the entry of the 5-generation T-50 (PAK FA) into the troops will begin.

            This year I had to enter the army as a river. WHERE ???
            Quote: GSH-18
            Mig could not offer something new, conceptually new, and, of course, he was left without a government order.

            Proposed by KUB.
            Quote: GSH-18
            А сейчас начинает нести всякую ахинею про какие то "доводки"
            aircraft built on old technologies.

            The nonsense with the T-50 is now being carried.
            Quote: GSH-18
            Interesting saying. Do you mean the lack of aircraft carriers to base them? But this is not a technical problem with the aircraft.

            "Кузя" есть. Су-33 откровенно пропихнули на кузю. Кто виноват? симонов или караблестроители?
            1. GSH-18
              GSH-18 27 October 2015 23: 34 New
              +2
              Quote: tomket
              Everyone needs it, but you don’t need ... hmm ...

              Who is this for everyone? You? But fortunately you are not all hi
              Quote: tomket
              do not satisfy.

              Call the Air Force and tell them that. They will laugh with pleasure lol
              Quote: tomket
              This year I had to enter the army as a river. WHERE ???

              Making an 5 generation aircraft is not a pancake to fry. We need quality and not eagerness. Or do you propose now to give all the money to the migrants to their child prodigy ?? belay
              Quote: tomket
              The nonsense with the T-50 is now being carried.

              What are you smoking now?
              Quote: tomket
              "Кузя" есть. Су-33 откровенно пропихнули на кузю. Кто виноват? симонов или караблестроители?

              "Кузя" не авианосец. Чтоб вы знали-это ТАКР.
              And there is a very big difference. Just like between Mig and SU bully
              1. tomket
                tomket 27 October 2015 23: 47 New
                +1
                Quote: GSH-18
                Making an 5 generation aircraft is not a pancake to fry. We need quality and not eagerness. Or do you propose now to give all the money to the migrants to their child prodigy ??

                From dry you want quality. and MiG’s eagerness ... however ....
                Quote: GSH-18
                What are you smoking now?

                I don’t smoke at all.
                Quote: GSH-18
                "Кузя" не авианосец. Чтоб вы знали-это ТАКР.

                And what from this? The British called aircraft carriers ships with a much lower displacement. If you proceed from your logic zhrena with su-33 stuck on the deck of the TARK? would be waiting for a normal aircraft carrier.
              2. tomket
                tomket 27 October 2015 23: 57 New
                -1
                Quote: tomket
                Call the Air Force and tell them that. They will laugh with pleasure

                Вообще проще всего разобраться с поставками сухого в наши войска. А именно с надобностью такого количества их в войсках. итак. идут поставки в войска самолеты с двух заводов. а именно из иркутска (су-34 и су 30см) и из комсомольска(су-35 и су-30м2) таким образом воспроизводится ситуация с танковым парком времен ссср , когда идут в войска три танка практически с одинаковыми ттх. Обьясняется это все очень просто. надобности как таковой в таком разнообразии нет, но тут шибко умный погосян пропихнул в войска "китайца" су-30м2 , который в принципе уступает иркутскому Су-30. собственно и большой надобности в су-35 и су-34 по большому счету нет , потому как все они построены на базе одного самолета Су-27. да и функционал у них примерно пересекается с функционалом су-30см. Опять таки получается распыление средств на лоббизм погосяновщины. Единственное опровдание сложившейся ситуации в том , что два завода смогут насыщать войска техникой не ломая экспортный поток и не теряя время для переоснастки под единый самолет.
                1. SIvan
                  SIvan 28 October 2015 19: 57 New
                  +3
                  Quote: tomket
                  in fact, there is no great need for the Su-35 and Su-34, because they are all built on the basis of one Su-27 aircraft. Yes, and their functionality is approximately crossed with the functionality of the su-30cm.


                  Вот про Су-34 Вы сейчас глупость сказали. В Сирии сейчас и Су-30СМ, и Су-34. Причём Су-30СМ патрулируют воздушное пространство, а Су-34 наносят удары по земле. Мне кажется, что наше руководство при проведении операции в Сирии руководствуется объективными критериями, а не "лоббизмом Погосянщины".

                  Su-34 is better suited as a bomber or even, perhaps, an attack aircraft. There, the cabin is a capsule of titanium armor, a more convenient arrangement of crew members next to each other.
                  It has a maximum take-off mass of 45 tons versus ~ 35 tons for the Su-30SM. Accordingly, the combat load is greater.
                  And many more differences.
    3. tomket
      tomket 27 October 2015 22: 54 New
      +1
      Quote: Windy
      Su-35 is declared as 4 ++. How can an MiG with an old glider become the fifth generation ?!

      On the Su-35, the glider is no newer than on the MiG-35.
      1. GSH-18
        GSH-18 27 October 2015 23: 12 New
        -5
        Quote: tomket
        Quote: Windy
        Su-35 is declared as 4 ++. How can an MiG with an old glider become the fifth generation ?!

        On the Su-35, the glider is no newer than on the MiG-35.

        Dear, have you ever seen these aircraft live? Migi is exactly two times smaller than Sushki. Accordingly, their performance characteristics are as much less. What modernization potential of the old MiG gliders can we talk about ???
        1. tomket
          tomket 27 October 2015 23: 20 New
          +6
          Quote: GSH-18
          Dear, have you ever seen these aircraft live?

          Do you need to reset the photo?
          Quote: GSH-18
          Migi is exactly two times smaller than Sushki.

          And what from this?
          Quote: GSH-18
          Accordingly, their performance characteristics are as much less.

          What are you saying? Two times less thrust-to-weight ratio? or rate of climb? or speed? or ceiling?
          Quote: GSH-18
          What modernization potential of the old MiG gliders can we talk about ???

          And what kind of potential can we talk about su-35 ???? That's exactly the same thing about the instant-35.
          1. GSH-18
            GSH-18 27 October 2015 23: 40 New
            -3
            Quote: tomket
            What are you saying? Two times less thrust-to-weight ratio? or rate of climb? or speed? or ceiling?

            If a person says this, then he does not understand simple things. Sorry, but I'm not interested anymore.
            Size matters. Explain laziness. Maybe you’ll guess yourself ..
            1. tomket
              tomket 27 October 2015 23: 43 New
              +4
              Quote: GSH-18
              Size matters. Explain laziness. Maybe you’ll guess yourself ..

              Well, if you are too lazy then do not write at all.
      2. Manul
        Manul 28 October 2015 00: 43 New
        0
        Quote: tomket
        On the Su-35, the glider is no newer than on the MiG-35.

        A lot has already been written and discussed. Su-35 is much more different from Su-27 than MiG 35 from MiG 29. The glider is not so much, but still ..
  4. svp67
    svp67 27 October 2015 18: 32 New
    +7
    Isaykin: MiG-35 have great potential and can be brought to the level of the fifth generation
    Хотя МиГ 35 и не плохой самолет, но в тот момент, когда он станет "пятого поколения", то у наших противников уже будет "шестое".
    По мне МиГ35, это "переходной" тип самолета. И он будет нужен ровно на столько, сколько времени потребуется нашему ВПК на разработку, выпуск и поставку в войска полноценного легкого истребителя "пятого поколения"
    1. viktorrymar
      viktorrymar 27 October 2015 18: 38 New
      10
      Who is bl. Invented these generations? Bullshit, until they come up with a new dviglo, there are only airplanes with turbojet engines, and the rest is only modernization of the existing one. THIS IS YOURSELF, what is a full-fledged light fifth-generation fighter?
      1. queen
        queen 27 October 2015 19: 15 New
        +1
        He is a fighter, and will hold on tight
      2. SPACE
        SPACE 27 October 2015 19: 34 New
        +5
        Quote: viktorrymar
        Who is bl. Invented these generations? Bullshit, until they come up with a new dviglo, there are only airplanes with turbojet engines, and the rest is only modernization of the existing one.

        Абсолютно согласен! А вообще эти условные, искуственные терминологии, очередной рекламный трюк, способствующий продажам, показывающий вашу ведущесть и передовость)))) посредством програмирования и структурирования мышления людей, думать в "клеточку". А по факту это все сплошная илюзорная чушь, главным все таки являеться возможность реального эффективного выполнения боевой задачи, даже если железо родом из 50 х, все остальное херь. И никакие отсеки, как и пресловутая невидимость))) не являеться чем то особенным и кардинально революционным. Вот например завтра создадут какой нибудь хитро умный прибор РЭБ/П, который легко можно будет навешать на кукурузник делая его полностью невидимым для Раптора и вновь возникнит вопрос, кто есть кто? А в условиях такой логики и МИГ 29 за пятого поколения сойдет, тем более что в любом случае конкретного применения аналогичного оружия будь то МИГ-29 или Ф-35, надо подразумевать, что им будет противодействовать целый комплекс различных систем, равнозначно сведущих все их эти преимущества на нет.
      3. GSH-18
        GSH-18 27 October 2015 21: 54 New
        0
        Quote: viktorrymar
        Who is bl. Invented these generations? Bullshit, until they come up with a new dviglo, there are only airplanes with turbojet engines, and the rest is only modernization of the existing one. THIS IS YOURSELF, what is a full-fledged light fifth-generation fighter?

        There are aviation generations - and this is a fact.
        The 5th generation aircraft is distinguished by a whole list of new characteristics from generation 4, and the 4th, respectively, from the 3rd. If you are interested, you can look at the same Wikipedia, it is intelligibly painted there.
        I’m answering your last question: A 5th generation light fighter cannot exist in nature, since the 5th generation has brought all the advantages of a deuce into one 5th generation machine. According to this, all this chatter of Migovites about a light fighter of the 5th generation will remain so chatter. They themselves do not understand what they are talking about, or pretend.
        1. tomket
          tomket 27 October 2015 23: 02 New
          -1
          Quote: GSH-18
          5 generation light fighter cannot exist in nature,

          Grippen is officially the first fifth-generation aircraft.
          Quote: GSH-18
          According to this, all this chatter of Migovites about the light fighter of the 5 generation will remain so chattering. They themselves do not understand what they are talking about, or pretend.

          the chatter comes from you. and it seems that you don’t understand what you’re talking about.
          1. GSH-18
            GSH-18 27 October 2015 23: 27 New
            +2
            Quote: tomket
            Grippen is officially the first fifth-generation aircraft.

            But the Americans will argue with you with pleasure, and will insist that the first 5th generation aircraft is called the F-22.
            And for me, this is the first and currently flown and best version of the 5th generation in the army.
            As for influenza, no one takes it except the Air Force of the country of manufacture and a few unfortunate people who used it to boil down using corporate principles request . What already characterizes this wunderwaffle itself, which is bungled from what was and was not brought to the condition of the real 5th generation. request
    2. GSH-18
      GSH-18 27 October 2015 21: 43 New
      0
      Quote: svp67
      По мне МиГ35, это "переходной" тип самолета. И он будет нужен ровно на столько, сколько времени потребуется нашему ВПК на разработку, выпуск и поставку в войска полноценного легкого истребителя "пятого поколения"

      And where did you get the idea that we would still need a light fighter? This concept has lost relevance with the advent of the 5th generation. Now the emphasis is on multifunction, etc. and not on light and heavy fighters. In our version, this is the PAK FA T-50, which will soon begin to enter the Air Force. Where do you order to wind up this lightweight Migov fighter that has left the concept of air combat ??
      1. vsoltan
        vsoltan 27 October 2015 22: 49 New
        +1
        It’s known ... there can be basically no full-fledged and multi-functional equipment ... everything has its purpose ... and a flying, for example, a car on the track cannot be compared with a sports car ... it’s like a cryovodule or underwater atom with an ordinary AKM ... everything has its purpose and time ... you won’t become dig the earth with a crowbar? Or guard a flock of sheep with a saora of poodles? Something like that ... therefore, we need different planes .... And more, more, both in quantity and variety ...
        1. nemo778
          nemo778 28 October 2015 22: 21 New
          +2
          Dear vsoltan hi !Хочу попробовать вступиться за позицию ГШ-18!Приведу пример на танках ВОВ! Были "легкие""средние""тяжелые"!Т-34"средний"
          ( пушка-76мм),КВ=1,2(пушка-76мм),основная разница броня(вес), а значит скорость(маневренность) при одинаковой огневой мощи!У"тяжолой"КВ изначально больше возможностей по модернизации(увеличение башни, калибра,мощности движка итд)тк инженеры под больший вес закладывают большие ТТХ в том числе и прочностные(ходовая итд)!После войны,когда появились гладкоствольные орудия "длинной руки"для которых,толщина брони практически не имела значение!Отпала необходимость на разделение на легкие и тяжелые,появилось обозначение как "основной"боевой танк!Главным стал "много функционал"танка(автомат заряжания,стабилизаторы,прицелы ноч.виденья,баллистические вычислители итд)!Я очень люблю"МИГ",но если в нынешней ситуации(экономической)!Функционал тяжелова"СУ"лучше!Даже в "маневренности"при большем весе,а значит дальности,тяго вооружённости,дальности обнаружения( АФАР)!И себестоимости!Вряд ли за один"СУ" можно сделать два "МИГ"!На подходе Т-50, а значит пропадает понятие "тяжелый" и "легкий" истребитель!Мы живем при капитализме,а значит в острой конкурентной борьбе! Если компания "Сухой" в ней оказалась "расторопней",не в ущерб!А увеличение обороноспособности страны,флаг им в руки!!! soldier А корпорации"МИГ"Я думаю лучше сосредоточиться на создание легкого ударного беспилотника! Вот их можно штамповать много(нападать на противника по типу осиного роя)!Это лично мое мнение если, что не обессудьте! hi
          1. vsoltan
            vsoltan 29 October 2015 17: 13 New
            0
            nemo 778
            Thank you, but in this case you only confirm with me the foregoing ... namely, heavy and light aircraft, namely small Buyans and ocean-going nuclear powered ships ... everything has its purpose ... :)
  5. Aleksandr2012
    Aleksandr2012 27 October 2015 18: 32 New
    +4
    I would very much like, for starters, to see in practice fifth-generation information and targeting systems in the instant 35, or even loud statements.
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. Kyrgyz
    Kyrgyz 27 October 2015 18: 34 New
    +7
    And what is the concept of a light fighter? As I understand it, the radius is small from here and the price is lower, but the price should be noticeably lower then, and a plane with a small radius is really good for export and Russia does not need it so much. It seems that moment 29 and had the main problem in a small radius and a small resource of engines, of course if it’s cheap then it’s tolerable but judging by the volume of purchases it’s not cheap
  8. Kyrgyz
    Kyrgyz 27 October 2015 18: 39 New
    +1
    Quote: Vladimir
    Твою жешь дивизию! Опять "экспортный потенциал"!!! Подумайте сначала о собственной Армии и Флоте а потом уже барыжте пока ливер не лопнет. То Китай, то Индия то еще не пойми кто. Что же стратегические технологии продаёте? Ведь нельзя зарекаться что завтра ни Китай ни Индия не встанут на сторону англосаксов или же не начнут собственную партию против России. А верхушка продаёт настолько чувствительные технологии что диву даёшся. Идиотизм просто зашкаливает.

    Quote: iConst
    Quote: Vladimir
    Think first about your own Army and Navy
    - If the Russian Aerospace Forces are not interested in this aircraft?

    Я речь не только и не столько о МИГ-35 веду. Куда ни ткни везде этот скотский лозунг - "экспортный потенциал".

    And who needs yesterday's development? They have them anyway. Competition requires improving the quality and properties of the product or sit without sales like China France Eurofaitry Gripeny and MIG in the end
  9. gridasov
    gridasov 27 October 2015 18: 40 New
    0
    Если "пробежаться" по англоязычным сайтам программы поиска инновационных идей , то не сложно выделить задачу которые ставят военные ведомства . Прежде всего это поиск решений по созданию ГТД на новых принципах работы. Эти задачи ставят и Российские компании . Но!!?? способны ли те или другие понять эти принципы работы новых двигателей? А ведь это будущее не только самих двигателей и самолетов , но и будущее тех стран которые развиваются на индивидуальных особенностях идеологии , мировосприятия , морали и нравственных ценностях. Вот и ответ . Маленькое техническое решение является основой изменения индустриального мира , а соответственно и всей совокупности их определяющих. Ответы найденные "маленьким" человеком могут решить сильных мира сего тех "корон ", которые они носят.
    1. 31rus
      31rus 27 October 2015 18: 57 New
      +1
      Согласен,но отчасти,реальность диктует свое и если сегодня мы не "отобьемся",завтра увы будет не нашим,давно все написано,"Миг-35"нашим ВВС не нужен и вряд ли нужен кому то еще,вот и идет пиар про 5-е поколение,т.е дайте деньги будет 5-е поколение,вот так то,насколько это правильно,мне думается нужен компромисс,дать часть денег и установленное время для создания действительно легкого истребителя 5-го поколения,пойдет дело продолжить финансирование,нет ждать лучших времен,проектов,но легкий истребитель нужен России и эта тема будет возобновляться вновь
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 27 October 2015 19: 06 New
        -1
        Реальность !!!!???? Это иллюзия ! Мы не должны отбиваться. Мы должны правильно делать свое дело без оглядки . Еще старая мудрость гласит , что "целится нужно не в орла...чтобы попасть в цель ".Задачи нужно ставить не только в сравнительных сопоставлениях с другими армиями или цивилизациями. Нужно развиваться по собственным правилам. Тогда, а не только, не будет разницы между легкими и тяжелыми самолетами , но мы будем очень скоро летать на оптимальных формах полета и на тех Махах , которые и не мыслили. А сейчас мы и понять не можем почему на третьей секунде так наз гиперскоростные ракеты разваливаются.
        1. 31rus
          31rus 27 October 2015 23: 17 New
          -1
          Я вас понял,но законы аэродинамики,физики,возможности промышленности,все это "диктует"свои жесткие параметры,так что и мы и они в этом в равных условиях,согласен с вами ,что нужно вкладывать деньги в будующие,но где их взять,если бюджет дырявый
  10. biron
    biron 27 October 2015 19: 00 New
    +2
    Quote: Vladimir
    Твою жешь дивизию! Опять "экспортный потенциал"!!! Подумайте сначала о собственной Армии и Флоте а потом уже барыжте пока ливер не лопнет. То Китай, то Индия то еще не пойми кто. Что же стратегические технологии продаёте? Ведь нельзя зарекаться что завтра ни Китай ни Индия не встанут на сторону англосаксов или же не начнут собственную партию против России. А верхушка продаёт настолько чувствительные технологии что диву даёшся. Идиотизм просто зашкаливает.

    Quote: iConst
    Quote: Vladimir
    Think first about your own Army and Navy
    - If the Russian Aerospace Forces are not interested in this aircraft?

    Я речь не только и не столько о МИГ-35 веду. Куда ни ткни везде этот скотский лозунг - "экспортный потенциал".

    He served the army in the GSVG and there were 64 and 72 went to the NSC, the difference is that for themselves the worst for ZhKsport is worse, and now it’s the same. fool
    1. max702
      max702 27 October 2015 20: 41 New
      -1
      The 64th turned out to be expensive and not reliable, complicated and capricious in operation ... These are the reasons for the lack of it for export .. But according to the MIG it seems that it is hopelessly outdated .. The MiG-35 is a virtual airplane and does not exist in nature, so you need to bring it to mind LOTS of money and time .. But the most important thing is that no one can guarantee THIS on this MiG practically nothing shines ..
      1. iConst
        iConst 27 October 2015 21: 12 New
        0
        Quote: max702
        MiG-35 aircraft is virtual and non-existent in nature,
        - What is it like? The 2007 prototype was already at MAX.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_mPcn6LFNw
        And since 2016, the MO seems to be going to acquire in exchange for the 29s.
  11. Dormidont2
    Dormidont2 27 October 2015 19: 02 New
    +3
    from Mig-29 you can make a shock supersonic drone, which at low altitude hiding from radars will go to the missile launch area
  12. Tusv
    Tusv 27 October 2015 19: 06 New
    -1
    Without adoption, only Russian air defense systems are sold. Mig 35 is not accepted, then who will buy it? Although the characteristics are at the highest level
  13. Tor5
    Tor5 27 October 2015 19: 16 New
    0
    Time will show what will come of this Mig, whether it will be in demand.
  14. Kyrgyz
    Kyrgyz 27 October 2015 19: 17 New
    +1
    Can equip YAK130 with air radar and rockets and rivet a lot of them for inexpensive than not covering not the main directions? And due to the price and export, it can be delivered to those who are unlikely to encounter a strong opponent in the air in South America. Africa
    The quantity, as the great ruler said, is also quality, but at a price of 80 million greens apiece, the quantity will not work
  15. jekasimf
    jekasimf 27 October 2015 19: 34 New
    -1
    If you put a beautiful saddle on a cow, then it will not become a mustang .....
    5-th generation! Yes to the old glider, from MIG 29 .... Heh!
    That's right! Let the drone be made on its base. It will be super!
  16. nik13
    nik13 27 October 2015 20: 29 New
    +2
    We didn’t raise a moment and didn’t let die, so we hang out ..
  17. vell.65
    vell.65 27 October 2015 20: 35 New
    0
    The author is getting dark, I think on the basis of instant-35 the project instant-1.44 is brought to mind.
  18. Wiruz
    Wiruz 27 October 2015 20: 42 New
    0
    Am I alone about the MiG-35 annoying? No? Judge for yourself. About once every six months, someone from Mikoyan-Gurevich (! not from MO!) делает заявление, мол "МиГ-35 уже готов к прохождению гос. испытаний", "Он не имеет аналогов в мире", "Это уже почти пятое поколение", "Да за ним уже в очередь страны записываются", "С понедельника начнём серийный выпуск" и т.д. Ребят, МиГ-35 классный самолёт, но его нужно было строить ещё вчера, лучше даже позавчера. Не знаю каким там требованиям МО он не соответствует, или что мешает принятию его на вооружение, от проектирования (not from operation) generation 4 ++ need to move away. Isn’t it better to give up all efforts to create a new lightweight IPP?

    hi
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 27 October 2015 20: 46 New
      -1
      Does anyone understand that there will be no sixth or another generation because in physics everyone has long been flying to the limit of overcoming threshold energy processes, after which you just need to switch to new algorithms for organizing processes in turbines.
      1. Wiruz
        Wiruz 27 October 2015 21: 06 New
        0
        No, well, as far as I know, among the requirements for fifth and sixth generation fighters there is not a word about fundamentally new engines. And if the requirements for the fifth generation are more or less known, then the sixth is essentially the same, only under the control of AI.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 27 October 2015 21: 13 New
          -1
          What are we talking about! If new generations do not differ in speed at all stages of flight, do not differ in maneuverability, payload, economy, then what are these promising generations. In this case, no one discounts everything else that determines the saturation of the aircraft. But the conversation is about the aircraft and therefore everything rests on the engine and the expiring parameters depending on it - directly
          1. Tusv
            Tusv 27 October 2015 21: 40 New
            0
            Quote: gridasov
            If new generations do not differ in speed at all stages of flight

            Fact! So far, the only 5-generation pepelats - the half-cave has a speed limit at the level of f-16, although in air defense circulars the maximum speed for a combat falcon is 240, and not 210, like for Raptor
          2. Wiruz
            Wiruz 27 October 2015 21: 45 New
            0
            Нет, ну отчасти с Вами не согласен. Не только скорость всё решает. "Революционные" отличия пятого поколения от предыдущих это малозаметность и высокая степень автоматизации, т.е. бортовая электроника сама идентифицирует цели, выбирает приоритетные, подбирает конкретное вооружение для поражения и прочее и прочее. Пилоту остаётся лишь дать добро на поражение, конечно если он со всем согласен.

            The main advantage of the sixth generation (which, incidentally, causes a lot of controversy) is the lack of a pilot in the cockpit, or even the absence of it as such in principle. This allows you to avoid losses, plus makes it possible to maneuver aircraft with high overloads that are dangerous to the human body.

            For the rest, I agree, until the gravitsap is collected, you can not wait for a sharp jump in aircraft construction laughing
            1. iConst
              iConst 27 October 2015 21: 50 New
              +1
              Quote: Wiruz
              The only thing left for the pilot is to give the green light to defeat, of course, if he agrees with everything.
              laughing

              Pilot - on-board computer: what is your evidence ??? (with) laughing
      2. scorpiosys
        scorpiosys 28 October 2015 01: 15 New
        +1
        Все "современные технологии" во всём мире примерно одинаковы. Сговор. Все соблюдают "правила драки". Никто не будет внедрять двигатель работающий на воде, "низя-я-я-я....", пока все более-менее технологически развитые страны будут жить и работать фактически в одном лагере и по одним кап.принципам. Как вы счётчик денежный сможете на все водоёмы прикрутить?
        Counter... This is the main principle of our modern civilization.
  19. Manul
    Manul 27 October 2015 21: 28 New
    0
    Donavi49 apparently tired of explaining everything to everyone lol. And I love his comments so much. Well, just the best.
  20. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 27 October 2015 21: 39 New
    0
    Что бы все, что сказал коммерсант воплотить, нужно движки как минимум на 18% процентов мощнее и на 5% экономичнее поставить, не увеличивая вес и размеры. Про БРЭО,РЛС-АФАР, а так же РЛС бокового и заднего обзора- тоже АФАР, датчики ОЛС сканирования и лазерного сканирования не забыть. Новую ОЛС поставить, что бы км. на двадцать работала уверенно и в ИФ режиме. СУО для перспективных образцов ракетно бомбового вооружения. Все это потянет по времени минимум лет на шесть, при очень хорошем финансировании. И все это в том же планере? Зачем?Китайцы к тому времени свои пипелацы, в якобы "стэлс"планерах добьют и будут в два раза дешевле продавать.
  21. Aleksandr1959
    Aleksandr1959 27 October 2015 22: 05 New
    +2
    КБ им.Микояна, в силу ряда причин, в 90-х оказалось в дупе. Это и их попытка с "Авиатикой"... и прочие за..ы. При всем моем неуважении к М.А.Погосяну, как человеку достаточно долгое время , возглавлявшему ОАК и проталкивающему авиационные комплексы , в создании которых он принимал участие...стоит отметить достаточно высокую боевую эффективность этих комплексов (сразу прошу не задавать вопросы каким образом ее, эту самую боевую эффективность я посчитал). Да, Погосян и К много сделали , чтобы ОКБ им. Микояна подзагнулось. Но тогда вопрос, а что сделали микояновцы, чтобы этого не произошло? Как военный инженер-испытатель, я работал с суховцами ..ряд других наших отделов( I Управления 929 ГЛИЦ МО)работали с микояновцами. И я могу сравнить деятельность рук.состава ОКБ им. Сухого и ОКБ им. Микояна в 90-е годы, не в пользу микояновцев. Да, сейчас можно все свалить на Погосяна и К..., но чем занималось ОКБ им. Микояна. Почему только сейчас поднята буча насчет МиГ-1.44, который не летал с 2000 г?И у меня нет вответов на эти вопросы, к сожалению. Но....есть надежда, что ОКБ им. Микояна "выйдет из штопора"....
    Somehow like this . Maybe not very clearly. But. I have no answers to a number of my own questions.
    1. scorpiosys
      scorpiosys 28 October 2015 01: 17 New
      0
      Бывшая "придворность" МИГа превратилась в его "непроходимость".
  22. Gvozd
    Gvozd 27 October 2015 22: 14 New
    0
    I have a feeling that our VKS in general does not need light fighters.
    1. adept666
      adept666 28 October 2015 09: 58 New
      +1
      I have a feeling that our VKS in general does not need light fighters.
      It does not deceive you. A heavy board is easier to make multi-functional, it has more carrying capacity, fewer restrictions, more powerful energy, a greater radius of action and at the same time, modern maneuverability is not inferior to lightweights in maneuverability. Yes, they are more expensive, but the pros overlap with these shortcomings.
  23. EvilLion
    EvilLion 27 October 2015 22: 21 New
    0
    Bring, we really are against.
  24. With Siberian Cranes
    With Siberian Cranes 27 October 2015 23: 20 New
    0
    https://youtu.be/b23AjeRBXSU
  25. Marconi41
    Marconi41 28 October 2015 00: 09 New
    0
    Quote: Alex_Rarog
    In the 90s, it was only through exports that everyone survived.

    So for the MiG, nothing has changed. Small orders for the MIG-29K and that’s all that the Motherland can give them. So they write about export potential. Let them sell it, and then MiG 1.44 MFIs will bring it to mind.
  26. kostyan77708
    kostyan77708 28 October 2015 06: 58 New
    0
    Quote: dauria
    The Russian Aerospace Forces (more precisely, its leadership) stupidly ran into the development of heavy fighters, not understanding the banal thing: we need - and desperately - both heavy and light ...


    The MIG designers did not understand the commonplace thing — the Americans had a pair of F-15 and F-16 from the very beginning under the SAME Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-100 engine then 110. Because of this, both planes are getting cheaper, especially in operation- and 2- x and single engine.
    Now F-22 and F-35- under the SAME Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-119 engine (then 135)

    if you need a light one (but is it necessary? unless to sell), then only a cheap single-engine with an engine from PAK-fa. (A Mig-29 (35) continue to procrastinate to nothing)
    For me, both a fighter and a strike aircraft should be done on the same PAK-FA platform. (similar to Su-30 Su-34)

    f 35 like 1 engine
  27. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 28 October 2015 12: 45 New
    0
    There are many dissatisfied with the fact that the latest MIGIs are largely exported. Yes, it’s how the defense industry enterprises will live if they don’t get enough financial support. The state is not able to immediately change everything in the army for the latest weapons, because there is no money from the social network, from the Ministry of Health and scientific institutions, too, because many now dissatisfied at once will change their attitude, if grandfathers, grandmothers will receive a small pension.
  28. propolsky
    propolsky 28 October 2015 19: 22 New
    0
    Хорошо бы было пересмотреть все закрытые проекты и реанимировать перспективные. Ранее закрывали из-за отсутствия денег, или чьи-то пересекающихся интересов, да и чисто по разгильдяйству. Пора скрести по сусекам, авось мир восхитится от какого-нибудь давно забытого военно-промышленного "колобка"!
  29. Engineer
    Engineer 29 October 2015 14: 45 New
    +1
    Declaring that the Mig-35 can be brought up to the 5th generation level, the Mikoyanites sign their helplessness to create something new and continue to parasitize on their shared legacy, squeezing all the juices from the Mig-29.
  30. bratchanin
    bratchanin 29 October 2015 14: 53 New
    -2
    It would be nice to teach these fighters to fight in an unmanned version (6th generation).
  31. Leonid Har
    Leonid Har 29 October 2015 15: 15 New
    0
    Great fighter. The real fulcrum.
    Until 2020, 30 Mig 35s will be acquired by the Russian Ministry of Defense
  32. Taga
    Taga 29 October 2015 16: 58 New
    +1
    Кто знает, что значит"до уровня "легкого" пятого поколения"? request
  33. CRASH
    CRASH 29 October 2015 23: 56 New
    +1
    Since 2011, it continues "у него очень большой экспортный потенциал" but to sense 0 and there is no exhaust.
  34. serverny
    serverny 30 October 2015 02: 34 New
    0
    Let it be better to develop an interceptor to replace the 31st - this machine will be in demand by the VKS.

    Модернизации Миг-35 при его стоимости и врождённых ограничениях лёгких истребителей (главный минус - по определению более слабый радар) для РФ малоактуальны. Тем кто говорит "но ведь F-35 лёгкий!" рекомендую сравнить максимальные взлётные массы, нагрузку и боевые радиусы. F-35 весьма условно "лёгкий".
  35. Tishka
    Tishka 30 October 2015 02: 38 New
    0
    Gentlemen, let me make my little contribution to your argument! Under pressure from Poghosyan, MIG 1.44 was hacked, at his insistence, a promising heavy drones were killed, based on the same MIG. And you are not confused by the fact that only the MIG 31 can fly at super-sonic speed, an unlimited amount of time, in contrast to the same T-50, for the development of which Poghosyan shot money, putting an end to the development of Mig-1.44, which was made in 90 years. And now, with the T-50, everything is not so all right, it hasn’t gone into series, the procurement term has been postponed for an indefinite period, although it should have been delivered to combat units this year! And the number of purchased cars was significantly cut to 10 pieces. And Now, our much-respected Taburetkin, will lead this industry, and will put everything up for sale again, maybe Vasilyev, will attract him to this business, so, this is still flowers, berries in front! It wasn’t worth all the design bureaus, to bring it under one wing, there should be competition, and not lobbying for certain design bureaus and factories, for the reason that this leads to a deterioration in production, because for lack of a better one, they will buy it! So, it’s not worth saying that the MIG is hopelessly behind, just pushing individual design bureaus, led some to chocolate, and others suggest going to the Chinese! There should be fair competition, and then, perhaps instead of the T-50, the Mig-1.44 would already be flying in the troops!
  36. complete zero
    complete zero 30 October 2015 08: 07 New
    +1
    I don’t know, I’m certainly an amateur in aviation, but still I think it’s hardly possible to make the fifth generation of MIGA (LA) one of the criteria of which is the minimum reflecting surfaces Mig-29 clearly does not correspond to this
    1. Tishka
      Tishka 30 October 2015 12: 28 New
      0
      Sorry for the perseverance, but here is the MIG-1.44, and it was specifically designed as a 5th generation aircraft! And much earlier, the creation of the T-50. It’s just that some comrades at the helm knocked out money for the creation of PAK-FA, and for this business, they signed Sukhoi’s company for their personal reasons! And the unlimited time spent on super-sound, without afterburner, is limited only by fuel in the tank, the same T-50 is designed for 45 minutes of flight, otherwise the glider will overheat, which will lead to its destruction!
      1. SIvan
        SIvan 30 October 2015 14: 12 New
        0
        Quote: Silence
        the same T-50, designed for 45 minutes of flight, otherwise the glider starts to overheat, which leads to its destruction!

        Where does this information come from? Where did you find that out?
        1. Tishka
          Tishka 30 October 2015 14: 15 New
          0
          Talked to the pilots. Yes, and there was an article that the T-50 is not intended for a long flight on super sound, the developers themselves wrote! You can search should have been preserved.
          1. SIvan
            SIvan 30 October 2015 20: 44 New
            0
            I did not find. Perhaps I was looking badly, I do not argue. However, there are two questions:

            1. How then does the MiG-1.44 avoid glider overheating? Are there better materials used? I doubt it, given the time difference. Is the other MiG aerodynamics so much affected? (I am not an aviation specialist, I say right away)

            2. How is the MiG-1.44 doing with super-maneuverability?
            1. Tishka
              Tishka 31 October 2015 18: 31 New
              0
              По материалам информации практически нет, но можно предположить, что использованы сплавы, на основе титана. на Т-50, используются композиты, и углеродное волокно. американцы, уже столкнулись с проблемой расслаивания. К стати, в 2013 году, на авиационном шоу, из-за помпажа двигателя у Т-50, выгорела часть обшивки. Еще Бертини, для удаления тепла, предлагал охлаждать планер пропуская топливо, под обшивкой самолета. Маневренность обеспечивается за счет схемы утка. Когда передние плоскости, обеспечивают управляемость на виражах, типа Французского "Миража", а если установить двигатели с изменяемым вектором тяги, таких тогда еще не было, будет вообще супер!
    2. tyras85
      tyras85 31 October 2015 10: 00 New
      0
      From Mig-21bis, they are already doing the modification 3 ++++. Infa is on the network. Look, if interested.
  37. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 30 October 2015 12: 14 New
    0
    Quote: Engineer
    Declaring that the Mig-35 can be brought up to the 5th generation level, the Mikoyanites sign their helplessness to create something new and continue to parasitize on their shared legacy, squeezing all the juices from the Mig-29.

    I absolutely agree.
  38. cdrt
    cdrt 30 October 2015 14: 45 New
    0
    - See the gopher?
    - Not
    - And he is
    (c) DMB

    So with the Mig-35. Soon there will be several decades, as he has all the outstanding potential, but there is no aircraft.
    Already in the combat units, the MiG-29 will not remain soon (well, except for the carrier regiment).
  39. Catafract
    Catafract 30 October 2015 16: 27 New
    +1
    money ran out, and all of a sudden, moment 29 became the fifth generation? Have they even been stunned there?
  40. Psaking systems
    Psaking systems 30 October 2015 17: 54 New
    0
    The glider does not and cannot correspond to the fifth generation.
  41. Silent
    Silent 31 October 2015 01: 58 New
    0
    У меня было давно уже стойкое убеждение, что на смещении центра и фокуса внимания к моделям "Су" повлияли несчастливые и предательские для страны угоны Миг-25...27...29. Создавалось впечатление: их там что - вербуют целыми группами - миговских летчиков?.. или они такие все по-восточному обидчивые: с утра, вероятно, начальник задел или обидел чем, - вот, к обеду улетел в Турцию или на японский архипелаг...( Это была позорная и очень неприятная страница советских ВВС.

    It was logical, among other considerations, to change the main design bureau.
    This opinion is personal, of course. And MiG-31, the glory of B., took place ...
    В настоящее же время работы всем хватит! Не беспокойтесь о Миге, т.к. российское оружие получило свою настоящую оценку. И эта ниша занята нами по праву и навсегда - будем мировой кузней "мечей". Когда еще перековывать их на "орала"? неизвестно... и машиностроительный и научный комплекс давно ждали этого старта! Российская промышленность нашла свою нишу, в этом теперь смысл работ по снятию страны с нефтяной иглы. МиГ останется в строю!..