Military Review

Once again to the question of the reconstruction of the armor of the era of the Trojan War. Warriors with Shields (part 11)

49
So, the theme of the Trojan War and used in it weapons and the armor is coming to an end. Actually, it was considered almost everything that is possible, attracted significant iconographic material. As already noted, a significant amount of works of English-speaking historians were used, including those involved in the reconstruction of ancient artifacts. However, we have not touched the most important thing - the reconstruction of the armor of the era of the Trojan War as a whole, so to speak - full-scale reproductions of its military equipment "from head to toe." Someone makes swords and daggers, but what about the armor? So far in the previous article, we met with the work of only one person - the Greek reenactor Katsikis Dimitrios. But surely there are other and even whole societies?


Here, however, one should distract from the personalities and see what kind of thing this is - “historical reconstruction ”and what purposes does it serve? To begin with, the drawings by Giuseppe Raw are also a reconstruction. But this type of reconstruction is the simplest. The reconstruction in which the author reproduces the material and its processing technology is more complicated. That is, the fabric for the shirt is made from flax, which is spun and bleached, then there comes the turn of the loom, and so on and so forth. Here, it turns out that even a bronze sword is easier to copy: it got the metal of the required composition, cast in a modern crucible (although you can do it the old way!), Processed it with modern tools and okay! Although it’s possible it’s the same as pants, and a shirt can be made using “that technology”. And, therefore, the first type of reconstruction is a 100% complete immersion in antiquity. In fact, this is an extremely expensive experiment, reminiscent of immersion in the past. There’s a wedge everywhere! It’s not tricky to fake a blade, but you need an anvil and a hammer of that time. And what to polish? Sand? How to drill holes? How to drill? What clothes and, sorry, underwear? A lot of questions and all of them affect the purity of the experiment. That is why such experiments, due to their complexity and high cost, are extremely rare.

Once again to the question of the reconstruction of the armor of the era of the Trojan War. Warriors with Shields (part 11)

Ancient tools can also be obtained from Neil Barridge! A copy of those who worked the ancient masters!

The second option is simpler, this is when the goal is important, and not the means to achieve it. That is, we pour it into a chill mold, drill it on a machine tool, buy thread in a store, fabric too, dye it with aniline dye, and use “leatherette” instead of leather. There is also a benefit from such reconstruction, because as a result we see a “living image” of a person of that time. Can we experiment with whether it was convenient for him? Could he do this or that, besides such reconstructions are often made in films. Finally, the third view is reconstruction for ... children! The most, in my opinion, are “not historical,” and ... the most “grateful,” because they well awaken the children's love of history. A number of schools deal with them, even if their number is small. Several years ago, in the Levsha magazine (appendix to the Young Technician magazine) I published a series of articles on how to make the most “cheap and cheerful” (that is, reliably) armor and weapons of different peoples of the past, starting from Egyptian warriors and ending with the knights of the Middle Ages. It is clear that armor and weapons made according to this principle are nothing more than toys, but they are interesting and useful to children - it has been tested in practice.

Well, adult uncles play seriously and buy themselves armor and weapons worth several thousand dollars!
For example, in England there is an organization called Ermine Street Guard. They reconstruct the weapons of the warriors of Rome, are shot at the movies, they have their own fortress, where they serve and "click" with tourists. The price of one set of armor (not a centurion!) - 3000 pounds!


“All this is mine! Return, please! "

Many professionals that collaborate with museums. For example, Mike Simkins, who makes copies of Roman weapons using museum samples, and museums spread them next to the “antiques” for comparison. But Neil Barridge (about him here was told when it came to swords and other ancient "iron") decided to reconstruct the ancient shield of the Bronze Age!


Shield of Clonbrin

He himself writes about it this way: “The Clonbring Shield” (from Clonbrin) is the only surviving leather shield of the Bronze Age, and it is quite possible that it was made in the 13th century BC. It was found in 1908 during peat cutting near Clonbrin in Longford and is now on display at the National Museum of Dublin. Due to the fact that he was in peat bog, his safety was almost perfect, which allowed him to study well.


This photo clearly shows the pattern of the shield, and even those places where it was sewn with threads.

It turned out that the shield was made from a single piece of very thick natural leather, probably from the skin of an ox, and has some traces of combat damage on it. For additional protection, his hands were made of an umbron, and also made of leather. Although there is no other such thing, there are surviving bronze shields with a similar pattern from the Bronze Age, and they were found in places far from England, such as Spain and Southern Scandinavia.


Shield inside.

The comparative simplicity of making leather shields compared to bronze shields confirms the theory that leather shields were probably the most popular means of protection in the bronze age, and this was a good defense. The replica of the shield was made in the technology of the time with the use of a wooden stamp and hot water. The entire shield after molding was covered with beeswax. In 2009, he was tested for durability with a bronze sword and showed himself much better than expected, even when he was attacked with a spear. The shield was damaged, but after that it was immersed in the lake for the night and when the next morning it was taken out of the water, there were practically no signs of damage on it. The cost of a replica of such a shield is £ 350. ”

The works of most reenactors are performed exceptionally accurately, and this is understandable: nobody needs a bad product! Well, the sources are again archaeological finds.


Here, for example, Mycenaean bronze greaves from the burial in Kallithea, the Archaeological Museum of Patras (XII century BC).


And this is their reconstruction!


Well, this is a Mycenaean warrior, of course. Dressed, shod and armed in the local fashion!


This is his "shoe" (something really looks very modern, I think, but God is their judge)!


Tunic…


And a shield. And then to him umbons of different styles.


Well, this is his wicker base.

But this is a replica of the shield, which could be used by the warriors of the "peoples of the sea" and the sherdans from Egyptian reliefs. The base of the shield is a braid of slats covered in leather with a bronze rim around the edge. The wetted skin is well stretched and straightened, and soaked with hot wax becomes waterproof. There are three bronze umbrons on the shield. His total weight is 7 pounds 12 oz. So it is not very heavy.


Warrior with ... "warrior vases." It is possible that he looked that way.

However, inaccuracy immediately catches the eye. Not that shield! On the vase, it is cut from the bottom and ... now we see how its replica is made. First, the base of the shield is glued from boards that are turned around the edges. Then the tree is covered with leather, riveted umbon and handle.


Umbon




And, finally, we get the finished shield.

But a replica of the shield and armor of the work of the already known to us Greek reenactor Katsikis Dimitrios. His shield is a simple “pletenka” in the manner of a bottom from a basket, covered with goat skin with fur outside. The shield handle closes the umbron, and three smaller umbons are attached not so much for protection, but for beauty. The armor of the warrior - Dimitrios himself calls them "armor of Menelaus", made of leather with numerous umbrellas superimposed on them.


"Armor of Menelaus" - view of the front side of the shield.


"Armor of Menelaus" - view of the back side of the shield.


His work is also the “Warrior of the“ peoples of the sea ”(shardan).
At the “legs” of the “armor of Menelaus” we see the original four-pointed helmet, But this will already be the topic of the following material ...

The author thanks Neil Barridge (www.bronze-age-swords.com) and the site http://www.larp.com/hoplite/bronze.html for the photos and information provided by the Greek reenactor of the armor Katsikis Dimitrios (http: // www. hellenicarmors.gr), as well as the Greek Association for the Study of the History of Korivantes (koryvantes.org) for the photos provided.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Weapons and armor of soldiers of the Trojan War. Swords and daggers (part one)
Armor of the Trojan War (part two)
Armor warriors of the Trojan War. Helmets (part three)
http://topwar.ru/83250-schity-troyanskoy-voyny-chast-chetvertaya.html
Weapons of the Trojan War. Spears (part five)
Weapons of the Trojan War. Bow and Arrows (part six)
The Trojan War and its reconstruction (seventh part) - ending
Trojan War: ships and chariots
The Trojan War and the "peoples of the sea." “English historians report ...” (part nine)
"Peoples of the Sea". Armor and weapons (part ten)
49 comments
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  1. kumaxa
    kumaxa 3 November 2015 06: 39 New
    +2
    wow - I got lucky again! I will issue the first koment. for completing and photo-material of the ATP to the author. ++++ w in turnips. but the view from entih replicas is no matter what. Chesh word sand people-people worked. somehow the enti of art does not fit in with the description of this civilization. some gray buddy grandfather which granddaughter worked on her knee, and that was even a blindly young. Yes, something-mythical leaders in such squalor could walk !! ?? at such a squalor could talk oratai-the rural plowman himself to tuck such a skin. the plowman had no time for delights. but the pro-warrior-pro, I think the armor was more refined. but still there is an idea of ​​how it could be. thank you for the continuation.
    1. kalibr
      3 November 2015 07: 37 New
      +4
      This is again the case when a person can exclaim - "but I see it." That is, after all, there is no 100% safety of artifacts. The drawings on the walls do not explain 100% anything. There is always something unknown. This is what we have to conjecture about. Someone thinks better, someone worse. Different possibilities, different skill levels again. People write differently in Russian, but here metal, skins, wood ... By the way, in our "epic" Black Tomb, one iron was also preserved (and badly)!
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 3 November 2015 07: 58 New
    +2
    Photographic materials ... interesting, thanks ...
  3. Glot
    Glot 3 November 2015 08: 58 New
    +3
    Quote: kumaxa
    wow - I got lucky again! I will issue the first koment. for completing and photo-material of the ATP to the author. ++++ w in turnips. but the view from entih replicas is no matter what. Chesh word sand people-people worked. somehow the enti of art does not fit in with the description of this civilization. some gray buddy grandfather which granddaughter worked on her knee, and that was even a blindly young. Yes, something-mythical leaders in such squalor could walk !! ?? at such a squalor could talk oratai-the rural plowman himself to tuck such a skin. the plowman had no time for delights. but the pro-warrior-pro, I think the armor was more refined. but still there is an idea of ​​how it could be. thank you for the continuation.


    I think the plowman fought without armor at all. If you had to. He was not up to armor - he plowed and plowed.
    The pros, too, could not shine with sophistication of the armor, the pros on the front page would have the convenience of the armor, its combat properties and not beauty and sophistication. The search and beauty is among those who are not in the forefront chopped and standing behind the system, directs the type.
    So it's quite normal for a grunt that time armor and weapons.
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 3 November 2015 19: 15 New
      +2
      The plowman was not crazy, and did not go to slaughter with the stupidity of a bull in a slaughterhouse. The plowman did not have money for bronze, but yes, yes. But he had every opportunity to convince himself, for example, of hoofed armor, very strong. The sawn hooves connected by the straps are rather thick. There was plenty of material on the farm, cattle were often beaten, hooves were not particularly needed. The holes for the straps can be drilled in a thick hoof so that the strap is not outside but inside the hoof.
      At worst, a few oak planks soaked in urine (we made a set of airplane cases in urine in the Great Patriotic War, soaked in urine. Literate people were aircraft designers, had an idea of ​​antiquity) and tied together, gave some chance against a not so strong blow, everything is better than nothing.
    2. kumaxa
      kumaxa 3 November 2015 19: 32 New
      0
      dear you are wrong. for example, mono again take Rome. to the early republic. take a look. at least from of sources. ent one. the second is the convenience of exploitation of the protection of the body in battle. I'll disappoint you, this current is again from Rome. in the forefront are precisely the plowmen with spears and growth shields. then shock infantry fighters and chariots as you like. let's say cavalry. governor and prince ent in nasenski. stand in the center and lead the battle. at the peak moment, they are led by a strike of the main forces + reserve.
    3. Aljavad
      Aljavad 4 November 2015 01: 24 New
      +3
      I think the plowman fought without armor at all. If you had to. He was not up to armor - he plowed and plowed.
      The pros, too, could not shine with the sophistication of their armor. I think the plowman fought without armor at all. If you had to. He was not up to armor - he plowed and plowed.


      These were the days of "military democracy". A free man = warrior. And in my free time - to fish. Or plow. Look, the "king" Odysseus built a wedding bed for himself with his own hands. It did not fall. Don't exaggerate the standard of living of the barbarians. And the level of property stratification. The rich more often ate meat and cottage cheese.
      Pros, too, could not shine with sophistication of armor,

      I agree. A fur sleeveless jacket is quite a budget option. And the "tsar" will decorate the same sleeveless jacket with gold plates.
  4. marline
    marline 3 November 2015 10: 40 New
    +3
    Great article and great photos. good
    1. kumaxa
      kumaxa 3 November 2015 19: 35 New
      0
      I +++ l author!
  5. brn521
    brn521 3 November 2015 12: 53 New
    +5
    This is his “shoe” (something looks very modern, it seems to me,
    Why does it look modern, do you need to weave shoes from straps or what?
    Something I have a doubt that shoes from a vase of warriors can be easily assembled with straps and something full-fledged will turn out from this. This is clearly not a string, but a kind of power structure. From the then rather thick belts, you can assemble it and sew it together, I do not argue. But the skin in water and mud hardens, warps. The edges will start to cut into the skin of the foot with a strap and rub. Whereas a solid structure will not have such a problem. And again, the reenactor did the right thing, he protected his toes. The soles are okay, the skin on the feet of the tramps becomes rough and very thick. But this will not make your fingers iron, you stumble, knock your finger out, and that's it, in a mobile battle you’re not a fighter, you will waddle on 1,5 feet. So there were even such reconstructions. Now this is clearly not like a "vase of warriors".
    1. kalibr
      3 November 2015 13: 51 New
      +3
      Perhaps here I agree with you, and not even because of the imported image. You correctly write that the belts, getting wet, will be overloaded and they will rub your legs.
    2. Aljavad
      Aljavad 4 November 2015 01: 40 New
      +3
      brn521 RU Yesterday, 12:53 PM New
      This is his “shoe” (something looks very modern, it seems to me, Why does it look modern, do you need to weave shoes from straps or what?
      Something I have a doubt that shoes from a vase of warriors can be so easily assembled with straps and something complete will come out of it. This is clearly not a tie, but a kind of power structure. From the then rather thick belts, it can be assembled and sewn together, I do not argue. But the skin in water and mud hardens

      By and large - I agree. But one doubt remains.
      We draw all the conclusions "conveniently or inconveniently" from the point of view of ourselves and our national culture of the 21st century citizens.

      When he first put on a kimono, he was horrified at the inconvenience of this dress.
      When I put on a Russian overcoat, the feeling was the same. It took TIME, to get used to and "akin to these clothes. So are boots with footcloths.

      And again, the reconstructor did the right thing, protected his toes. Soles okay, the skin on the feet of the bare feet coarsens becomes very thick. But the fingers will not become iron from this, stumble, knock out a finger,


      And Russian people (peasants) 150-200 years ago could well have made a march of versts like that 100 BOSICOM, and when they arrived, they took out their saved shoes and entered shod. Decently.
      And to knock a finger somewhere between Orenburg and Saratov, of course, is not fatal, but obviously not sugar. Looks like they rarely knocked out.
      We are barefoot and they are barefoot - two big differences.
      The Elins were amazed, how are barbarians fighting in their pants? This is inconvenient! Obviously worse than the Holozadic Elins.
      The Romans - later - wore trousers, but the Caligi did not cover their toes.
      The Indian, who came out to people in the 1920s in California, quickly got used to a "civilian" suit, but never accepted shoes. Lost balance and could not walk.
      It is simply a matter of convenience and practicality.

      IMHO. All truly scientific reconstructions (about convenience and practicality) can be considered reliable only if they lasted at least a year. And they were carried out "with immersion".
      1. brn521
        brn521 4 November 2015 12: 54 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        and not even because of the imported picture

        Pulled from here http://aldanov.livejournal.com/627182.html. In general, something outright in Runet no other sensible author on ancient shoes was found, he has articles there three or four. And the author himself is strange. Paid account, Prague, Czech Republic, writes in Russian. There are such.
        Quote: Aljavad
        We draw all the conclusions "conveniently or inconveniently" from the point of view of ourselves and our national culture of the 21st century citizens.

        I went a lot. On the grass, on the forest, on the stones even. Realistically, but you have to walk differently. More time, more effort, more attention. The habit, of course, is developed. But then again, a walker in good shoes without any problems will give a head start. However, there is for example a mention on Wikipedia that Chaka the Zulus zoomed and thus obtained improved mobility from them. Something is not believed, except that before that they had very bad shoes. Or their country was laid out with asphalt and swept regularly.
        Quote: Aljavad
        When he first put on a kimono, he was horrified at the inconvenience of this dress.

        It's not about clothes. Shoes soldier needs the best that you can get. So that on the march the legs do not wear off, and do not burn in the heat, and at the same time you can not worry about what you are stepping on. An ordinary passer-by can afford to look under his feet and step cautiously if there is grass, wood or stones. And in battle there’s no time to do this. It is necessary to look at the enemy and adapt to it. We had comic fights, but how many times flew on a rebound backwards, then in the bushes, then in the ravine. There was no time to control what and where, especially when against two or three, or the sun in the eyes or something else. Those. step on what you have to, without hesitation. In combat combat, it’s probably even worse, you’ll stomp along the anthill and break branches with snags, if the formation passes through such an obstacle. And about running and nothing to say, barefoot unless on a good road to run.
        Quote: Aljavad
        And Russian people (peasants) 150-200 years ago could well have made a march of versts like that 100 BOSICOM, and when they arrived, they took out their saved shoes and entered shod.

        It is forced. Either he was not with him, or there was no place to pull the bite. Well, or the road is good, although in those days it was such a funny thing, like sharp rusty horseshoe nails lying around anywhere. Weaving bast shoes is a matter of minutes, only you can’t blame them barefoot. By the way, I don’t remember something about sandals, although the ancients weaved and wore them a lot. http://aldanov.livejournal.com/625300.html Strange, it will be necessary to search somehow, maybe all the same our peasants had something similar. And it turns out that for some reason they also needed to protect their fingers and foot with shoes. However, as for me, in the same forest you don’t look any different. Yes, and in the grass that just does not come across. It would seem a trifle some, a rotten mole for example. And the rib from this skeleton can enter the leg like a steel needle if you gape.
        I note one more moment of walking barefoot. We have everything in openwork now. And in those days, a wounded leg, or even just a fingernail broken up to blood, but in mud or some dung. And all, hello, blood poisoning, inflammation, gangrene and other delights. There are no antibiotics, but to the nearest bathhouse, where you can steam your leg, stomp and stomp. However, people in those days didn’t die of anything.
  6. dvg79
    dvg79 3 November 2015 13: 43 New
    +3
    I remember wearing a robe in armor similar to the plate cuirass of that era, in an hour I only dreamed of how to remove it. After that, you begin to understand why the armor and weapons in real life were tried to make it as easy as possible. And certainly no one ever pulled armor.
    1. kalibr
      3 November 2015 13: 54 New
      +5
      I walked for two hours in chain mail up to my knees. I understood why the knights had a "proud bearing". It was hard to walk in another way - "I pressed on my hump." And I understood why they wore quilted knee pads. He hit the bruises above the knees with blows to his legs. Through your pants! In general, I set up a number of such "excretions" and there were very surprising results.
      1. kumaxa
        kumaxa 3 November 2015 19: 12 New
        -1
        you have a rather interesting and specific experience. I envy you. tell the caliber. you are a role player or a pushed. or just an experimenter ???
        1. kalibr
          3 November 2015 20: 59 New
          +3
          Neither one nor the other, nor the third. I am a historian, since 1995 I have been engaged in the English-language historiography of the knightly arms of Eurasia. That is, who, what, and how writes about it in English. I practically do not communicate with the clubs of role-playing and reenactors, there is no time. But when I need it, I can put on armor (and put on) and chain mail and ride a horse. And I rarely do experiments. The most curious one was at the Penza Hippodrome. I put the girls on a horse without a saddle on a blanket and they, with a spear in their hands, galloped at the enemy in Sarmatian style. And an amazing thing turned out: the horse is afraid of the "stick" near the eye. Serves to the left, does not go straight at a gallop and it is very difficult to hit the target. That is, the Sarmatians could not mount the first horse they came across and rush with a spear to attack. That is, horses must be prepared and trained regularly.
          1. Aljavad
            Aljavad 4 November 2015 01: 57 New
            +1
            I put the girls on a horse without a saddle on a blanket and they, with a spear in their hands, rode at the enemy in Sarmatian style. And an amazing thing turned out: the horse is afraid of the "stick" near the eye. Serves to the left, does not go straight at a gallop and it is very difficult to hit the target. That is, the Sarmatians could not mount the first horse they came across and rush with a spear to attack. That is, horses must be prepared and trained regularly.


            From memory (i.e., approximately), a war horse of the prairie Indians (I don’t remember the tribe) in the period before the Great War in the USA (the heyday of the culture of equestrian hunters) was worth 40 pack horses.
      2. Kombrig
        Kombrig 3 November 2015 22: 35 New
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        I walked for two hours in chain mail up to my knees. I understood why the knights had a "proud bearing". It was difficult to walk in another way - "I pressed on my hump." And I understood why they wore quilted knee pads. He hit the bruises above the knees with blows to his legs. Through your pants!



        Have you tried to "adjust" the chain mail with a belt strap so that you don't hit your legs, or take your own size? ))) And I would press less on the hump ...
        1. kalibr
          4 November 2015 06: 30 New
          0
          The size was just mine. But why reduce the length? "I got this one." That is, it was easier to wear quilted knee pads.
    2. kumaxa
      kumaxa 3 November 2015 19: 19 New
      0
      ahha pushed all the same admitted !!! hosh one! your personal experience in our debate will be invaluable in terms of operating armor. maybe you enlighten us about jewelry and armor jewelry. and I agree with you that sales of 5 kg of iron should be carried on itself, not to mention the fact that fencing is like a sword in reconstructions. weight does matter.
  7. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 3 November 2015 14: 33 New
    0
    Live it all looks somehow strange. Previously, people were lower, replicas increase proportionally?
    1. kalibr
      3 November 2015 17: 59 New
      +1
      This is not quite true. Average height was lower. And not the average as it is now. So it makes no sense to increase. Take it and do it on yourself! In the museum of Kislovodsk, I saw a roman helmet kulus. It is very big. Even taking into account the balaclava. That is just a big head!
      1. kumaxa
        kumaxa 3 November 2015 19: 37 New
        +1
        Greeks and Romans did not know plastic, but sea sponges were enough for you and the damper !!
        1. kalibr
          3 November 2015 21: 00 New
          0
          Yes, sponges could be used. This is an interesting idea, but most likely the liners were from felt.
    2. kumaxa
      kumaxa 3 November 2015 19: 51 New
      0
      and what do you want? The average growth of a European and the sales of a resident of central Russia did not exceed 1.70. but wild. that is, nomads had a standard of modern 1.80 and higher. scientists claim this because of food products.
  8. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 3 November 2015 18: 58 New
    0
    The first part of the article says that we will be shown some cool reconstruction, right down to the original underwear at the blacksmith. I froze ...
    Leggings - cast pattern, with traces of forging for revision and editing. Leggings-reconstruction - roughly curved from a rolled sheet (through and through the modern) similarities, on which an even rougher chasing on a rubber sheet is made. The same applies to the shield, cuirass on the reconstructor, and much more (though not to all), which is photographed below.
    The guys shown in the photo are not even reenactors, they are just roleplayers who spent a couple of evenings drinking beer on outfit. And the beer was drunk with a fair amount. The only thing I see reconstructed on the photographs is an anvil and a hammer, cast according to the old drawing. On this, the fuse of the "reenactors" completely dried up (apparently it was necessary to urgently run for beer) and people simply grinded the working surfaces of the hammer with an anvil with a grinder. By the way, you can't use a hammer! The handle is made of large-pored wood with a distinct grain pattern, like pine, without a trace of any impregnation, processing, firing ... all this will burst after the first blow. Apparently, well-dated rollers stably hit the "hammer" on the soft ground, and not on the anvil, this is the only way to survive for such a "tool", especially since the anvil (cast into a detachable plaster mold) has never been driven into a tree for work.
    Author, for the publication of this, did you receive special permission from these children ?! Take a trip to any role-playing party in the suburbs, they will show you absolutely everything that you showed in the photo, only the work done is much better and closer to the samples. This is a miserable, not camouflaged cheap thing, not bearing even a drop of historicism. Historians ... these people call themselves scientists. Tree sticks...
    1. kumaxa
      kumaxa 3 November 2015 19: 10 New
      0
      Here, dear, I'm talking about too! the photo documents schematically show the samples. speaking the modern language of ammunition. and here I am not talking about what is shown on the bottle. common sense among our contemporaries must also be present. I'm talking about a greaves. there is no point in closing the bare bone; there is a need to close the joint. but this is true current in the ranks. if you are a special combatant fighter. then they shouldn’t take the best armor, but take the weapon effective in defeating the enemy.
    2. kalibr
      3 November 2015 21: 05 New
      +3
      The article says that renovations are different, right? Photos of Katsikis Dimitrios did you see? Saw! I specifically did not draw any conclusions. In my opinion, everything is so obvious that there is a different level, isn't it? In addition, it is not yet evening, for comparison, the continuation as always will be and there will be other photos. But permission must always be obtained, it is legally correct.
      Shield again from the skin you saw? Neal worked with him for a long time. This is a sample of a good reconstruction. That is, someone who likes pop, who gets hit, who needs a pop daughter, said the devil, took off his panties and sat in the nettle!
  9. Stilet
    Stilet 3 November 2015 19: 33 New
    +1
    And I was right that these were not pennants on spears, but bags! ... By the way, I agree with the first comment - somehow the reconstruction doesn’t look like that. I don’t want to offend anyone, but there’s no harmony or something ... The Villanova culture helmet photo 2 (with tubes) seems to be similar, but if you look closely, the script looks stronger than that .... and the armor in the form of a cape is more impressive. In the Hermitage, I saw a bronze helmet of the Chalkidian type, so in it the helmet and the cheeks must apparently fit snugly against the face and head. In ancient images, the helmets of the warriors look elegant, functional and tight. And apparently the armor, forgive me if I am mistaken were cast and not stamped / minted.
    And how does the Shardan helmet on the head of the reenactor look like ?! Of course, the master can say that I see this way, but when the line is on the line, or from ship to ship, you can only jump over in such a helmet because of its inconvenience. Leggings on a person are generally a "song". Do not be offended if you did not say so - I speak as I see. hi
    1. kalibr
      3 November 2015 21: 09 New
      +2
      Your opinion has exactly the same right to exist as the opinion of Dimitrios Katsikis. So like this! Something he has is very impressive, something is not. It also needs talent - to reconstruct the old. Someone he more, someone less. And about the bags you are right. I looked and so and so, alas, did not think that these were bags. But it’s obvious ...
    2. Aljavad
      Aljavad 4 November 2015 02: 05 New
      +1
      not pennants on spears, but bags! ..

      "wineskin" is called! The most valuable thing on the hike!
  10. Bashibuzuk
    Bashibuzuk 3 November 2015 20: 37 New
    +1
    What are you, Narod.
    No sooner said than reconstruction.
    To whom money was enough and imagination.
    After all, the author writes this in an amazing Russian language.
    Or forgot how to read?
    Some for 3 pounds sterling their armor, exclusive, so to speak.
    Others spring from the tractor Belarus cost.
    .
    I liked the very leather shield, made of peat.
    The rest is a remake.
    ..
    Thank kalibr
    .
    .
    Now, logically, it's time to take up arms of the pre-Hispanic period of America.
    Will be?
    1. kalibr
      3 November 2015 21: 19 New
      +1
      In fact, the article was about arming the Aztec and Maya. Was! Make another one ... you can try. But we must look for those who do it there! In Mexico or in England.
      While the plans are: to make a series of articles on small arms. My friend has finally designed his entire collection on the wall ... come and study! Then go back to the samurai - not everything about them is finished ... then again, the knights of the West - there are a lot about them. Crusaders, their castles ... well, this is the first look.
      On the Trojan War there will be another material and, if it is interesting to many, the final material with historiography and outlandish weapons. I was asked to find about axes and I found the same ... As you can see - all for the most varied tastes.
      I signed a contract with a publishing house for a book about samurai. 25 author's sheets of text. Knights - too - 30 sheets! But ... where do we live? So when all this will see the light of day, or see at all, I do not know! On the other hand, ha-ha - my novel "People and Weapons" will be published once a week on the website of the Ukrainian journal Science and Technology. This makes me happy!
      1. Bashibuzuk
        Bashibuzuk 3 November 2015 22: 28 New
        +2
        Vyacheslav, why not a word about Iranian and Indian weapons.
        There are also unusual finds there.
        Some of these "oval" swords, supposedly for cutting through shell armor ...
        I read about them, became interested, but did not finish the job. I do not understand, simply put.
        In general, the complex of Indian weapons is strange for me, I’ll tell you straight. Unusual.
        Some kind of logic .... Indian.
        Multi-blade, light weapons ... I do not understand. Shave, or something?
        .
        Respectfully....
        I am far from publishing. I only know that it’s a job worse than shutting down OJSC.
        Good luck and do not get sick in this field!
        Volumes ... in 25 and 30 pl ... arouse respect ... on their own.
        .
        This is not Glotov’s scribble-poisoning.
        Success.
        Heartily.
        1. Bashibuzuk
          Bashibuzuk 3 November 2015 23: 02 New
          +1
          Once I saw a movie.
          I don’t remember the name. Just now, a Russian monk with a fighting ax in his hand was confronting a knight, one must assume, the Teutonic or Livonian Order. The monk himself on the ship made some journey.
          Very successfully opposed, and there it was a trifling matter. But interesting.
          ....
          It would be very interesting for me to find out if it is true that Yaroslav ceded these lands to Prussia and Latgallia to the Teutonic Order.
          How much, under what conditions? Why did they then oppose the suzerain ... well, here as usual.

          .
          I don’t know who how, but, for example, I imagine the worst northern history of Russia for myself. How we mastered Pomerania, as Mangazeyu. Coke how?
          The giant layer of culture is not mastered.
          1. kalibr
            4 November 2015 06: 35 New
            0
            Alas, we are in the same position ...
        2. kalibr
          4 November 2015 06: 33 New
          +1
          Thank! Now, about Iran and India. Ha! What a score! My former student made a career in India and specifically traveled to remove the fortress and Indian weapons. And I found an interesting book in English. about indian weapons. So I will definitely write about him. Although when I do not know. And the fortress ...
  11. Denimax
    Denimax 4 November 2015 03: 43 New
    0
    These sandals are not boots and boots. You can make all kinds of copies, but how practical are they? I can imagine how sand or small pebbles can get into them, and consider that you won’t shake them on the go. Just unlacing.
  12. Denimax
    Denimax 4 November 2015 03: 50 New
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    I put the girls on a horse without a saddle on a blanket and they, with a spear in their hands, rode at the enemy in Sarmatian style. And an amazing thing turned out: the horse is afraid of the "stick" near the eye.

    I can not imagine at all horsemen with spears, and at a gallop or trot rushing towards the enemy. Wash at the first poke, he will lose a spear or he will fly out of the saddle.
    1. kalibr
      4 November 2015 06: 40 New
      +3
      It wasn’t I who thought they were jumping like that, right? There are descriptions by ancient authors. That was what it was interesting to know: one thing is a "constant war horse" and another - a horse from the herd. And rightly so - this is why the Sarmatian cavalry is not knightly, because it did not have a stable landing! And they held the spear with both hands and stabbed them !!! And the horse + man did not hit with a mass! Otherwise, according to the law of action-reaction, it was really possible to fly off the horse. And about this, by the way, the ancient authors have. In the description of the Battle of Moesia, where due to muddy roads the Sarmatians became an easy victim of Roman legionnaires.
    2. brn521
      brn521 4 November 2015 13: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: Denimax
      Wash at the first poke, he will lose a spear

      Will lose. Either it will release, or the spear will be specially made with a limited margin of safety. After which it will move on to plan "b", the infantry will begin to knock on the heads with one-handed weapons. And here it is already incomprehensible to me. Business, then, with a shield from the rider to close and cut his horse. Either they defended the horses with particularly powerful blankets, or they pitied them, I don't understand. Knights seemed to consider it indecent to beat horses. And what about the infantry? For example, I took a hook with a reverse sharpening to the spear. And the horse's tendon can be cut with one movement, and the rider can be hooked on some protruding part. And add something shock anti-armor - and you will become all a gussite.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 4 November 2015 19: 12 New
        +1
        A horse knocks down an infantryman. The rider has a huge bonus - height and speed. A heavy blade dispersed from a height did not even need to minimize the impact surface to concentrate the force of impact - it pierced any armor. On the contrary, it was necessary to make the blade curved so that it would cut rather than cut it, otherwise it would go far into the body and strive to get stuck there, otherwise it would break.
        The infantryman easily took the knight not even on a spear but on a knife, but only if he managed to stop the horse. Because getting on the tendon of a galloping horse is from a bad movie. No tricks from modern versions of the BI, by the way, are not applicable in the infantry system - there is no place! Very limited opportunity for any movement.
        In fact, the infantry system was a passive barrier, the main function of which was to stop the mass of riders. Subjected to blow skulls. Cut belly so to speak ... Horseman stopped - a corpse! Instantly slaughter, kill, trample. Saved speed - broke an infantry system, you can chop defenseless in the back, until the hand gets tired.
        Break through the back of at least five equestrians - death order! And then terribly reluctance to die ... Such a confrontation. They stood on foot - the horse only flee. They didn’t resist - they were running on foot, although they knew that they wouldn’t run away from the cavalry; But it’s scary to run, higher than reason, stronger than considerations.

        The author received an avan for a new book! At the same level of "professionalism" and awareness! Mom dear ...
        1. brn521
          brn521 5 November 2015 14: 39 New
          0
          Quote: Mikhail3
          A horse knocks down an infantryman.

          Single yes.
          Quote: Mikhail3
          A heavy blade dispersed from a height did not even need to minimize the impact surface to concentrate the force of impact - it pierced any armor.

          There was a slight increase in impact efficiency, and nothing more. Well, he is aimed at the upper part of the body and head. Because of which, even the mace made sense and was applied.
          Quote: Mikhail3
          No tricks from modern versions of the BI, by the way, are not applicable in the infantry system - there is no place! Very limited opportunity for any movement.

          That's what it is about, a tight formation, the horse there will get stuck tightly.
          Quote: Mikhail3
          In fact, the infantry system was a passive barrier, the main function of which was to stop the mass of riders.

          Heavy riders can be stopped altogether without any infantry, with only slingshots. True for a while.
          Quote: Mikhail3
          Break through the back of at least five equestrians - death order!

          How will they chop the rear, if they even poke their spears, or even use the rest of the Hussite arsenal? A too large and devoid of maneuver target is obtained. Another thing is if suddenly any rondusher or halberdists jump out of the rear, type dragoons.
          Quote: Mikhail3
          pedestrians are running, although they know that they don’t run away from the cavalry; But it’s scary to run, higher than reason, stronger than considerations.

          This is if nothing can be done with the horseman. He will lose his spear from the very first collision. And the infantry of this business will remain in bulk. As a result, several infantrymen will be able to reach one horseman, but the horseman cannot. Another thing is who will organize, arm and teach this "rabble". This is apparently the whole point. Well, demographics and economics again. Apparently, the heavy cavalry was strong not due to some particularly effective tactics, but due to the insufficient development of all other inhabitants of that world.
  13. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 4 November 2015 09: 51 New
    +1
    Thank you very much, Vyacheslav! The article is wonderful !!! This day I will be in a good mood after your article! Very good photos. As if I saw the exhibits myself.
    By the way, jewelry on one of the helmets shown by you is very similar to one of the letters of one very ancient language.
    Sincerely.
  14. Denimax
    Denimax 4 November 2015 18: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    That was what it was interesting to know: one thing is a "constant war horse" and another - a horse from the herd. And rightly so - this is why the Sarmatian cavalry is not knightly, because it did not have a stable landing! And they held the spear with both hands and stabbed them !!!

    So I'm interested in the technique of striking. What can strike, I have no doubt about that. And what will happen then if the tip of the spear contains a body under 80 kg? And it’s galloping that it’s unlikely that you can pull out a spear.
    It was as if the paintings of artists of the Middle Ages were sorted out in one topic, as the drawing corresponded to reality. The author was surprised that the knights had tournament spears, that is, with a blunt tip. And in my opinion it’s more logical, the knights simply delivered stupid ram attacks, thereby knocking them down or out of the saddle. The blow could not be weak, before the fractures of the ribs.
  15. Warrior One Hundred
    Warrior One Hundred 4 November 2015 19: 13 New
    0
    Liked, but expensive)))!
  16. Stilet
    Stilet 4 November 2015 22: 50 New
    +1
    The Sarmatians did not immediately, a little later, a spear on a cord / belt was attached to the side of the horse’s neck, at a level between the knee and the horseman’s thigh. The cataphract only directed him and supported him at the moment of the ramming strike, so that he wouldn’t roll sideways. The blow was of decent strength, as the horse’s mass and inertia were invested in it. The loop was released and the spear released. And as they say ... a sword in his hands! soldier
  17. Molot1979
    Molot1979 24 October 2016 12: 32 New
    0
    Moderators, what's the problem? When you try to go to the previous parts, it simply throws it to the main page