China has tested the airship-hunter aircraft carriers

China has tested a new helium stratospheric airship Yuanmeng, capable of rising to an altitude of 100 kilometers, reports "Russian newspaper" with reference to People's Daily Online.

The aircraft of the new type is filled with 18 in thousands of cubic meters of helium and can be airborne for up to 48 hours. In its upper part there are solar panels that generate electricity for engines, and communication and reconnaissance equipment is located in the gondola.

The Chinese authorities did not provide information on the appointment of a new airship, however, according to experts at People's Daily Online, he may become a hunter for enemy aircraft carrier orders.

“Yuanmeng could be the pinnacle of the military food chain, hovering high above the South China Sea in search of targets. Together with the information collected by the satellites, aviation, submarines and drones, Yuanmeng will allow the People's Liberation Army of China to get a complete picture of the maritime theater of operations,” the material notes.

The aircraft will operate at altitudes that are inaccessible to most modern air defense systems.

“The main problem in creating an almost cosmic airship was a sharp temperature differential day and night,” said Yuanmeng development team leader, academician Yu Quan.

Comments

[Penetrator]

What can you imagine when there is no full-fledged satellite constellation. And the title of the article actually killed "Airship-hunter for aircraft carriers", yeah. Next up will be the ICBM Interceptor Kite?

[bulvas]

Is it really easier to lift the apparatus of air almost into space?

Quote: Penetrator

What can you imagine when there is no full-fledged satellite constellation.

The satellite will not hang over one place, like an airship

[vladimirZ]

In China, tests of the new helium stratospheric airship Yuanmeng, capable of rising to a height of 100 kilometers, ...
- from article

Well, give the Chinese, the space blimp did!

[_Vladislav_]

Quote: vladimirZ

The satellite will not hang over one place, like an airship

Maybe a satellite in geostationary orbit. He is more inaccessible.

In addition, when it comes to countering the Americans, each destroyer of the URO class has Standard-3 missiles that hit targets at an altitude of 250 km. What is a fixed dimensional airship at an altitude of 100 km.

In an era when anti-satellite weapons are gaining momentum, such means as an airship (aerostat, etc.) are simply useless.

[Rus2012]

Quote: _Vladislav_

What is a fixed dimensional airship at an altitude of 100 km.

In an era when anti-satellite weapons are gaining momentum, such means as an airship (aerostat, etc.) are simply useless.

"fixed dimensional airship" :)))))))))))))))))
First, try to find it ...
If its characteristics practically do not differ from the surrounding environment and are made of absorbing materials ... Stealth technology in its purest form!
On the other hand, inflated foil balloons - light and cheap snag - hovering in the hundreds in the patrol area ... Try to highlight the "true target"!

[_Vladislav_]

Quote: Rus2012

. Stealth technology in its purest form!
On the other hand, inflated foil balloons - light and cheap snag - hovering in the hundreds in the patrol area ... Try to highlight the "true target"!

This is a development that will be implemented in 5-7 years. At what level will there be anti-satellite weapons of other countries by that time, including detection means, which will inevitably develop due to their high demand.

Objectively, it will be possible to look at the possibility of practicality and expediency of such an airship in 2020.

[Falcon]

Quote: Rus2012

"fixed dimensional airship" :)))))))))))))))))
First, try to find it ...
If its characteristics practically do not differ from the surrounding environment and are made of absorbing materials ... Stealth technology in its purest form!

It should at least have a power source, radar and transmitter.

It is very easy to detect, the more against the background of space and not the earth. There’s nothing to bring down.

[kizhe]

Not so pessimistic. Need to be-knocked down (or knocked down).

[Bayonet]

Quote: Falcon

There’s nothing to bring down.

For a long time already there is something! Anti-satellite missiles launched from aircraft easily get low-orbit spacecraft.

[Talgat]

but the Chinese are well done anyway. Constantly coming up with something against the USA AUG

And they already have ballistic missiles against aircraft carriers, and long-range drones for control, and anti-ship missiles are making - now an "airship"

I’m sure that by the announced dates (the Chinese general promised 10-15 years), China will have the opportunity to face Japan and the United States on the Pacific Ocean (+ the Russian fleet in allies)

[Penetrator]

Quote: Rus2012

. Stealth technology in its purest form!
On the other hand, inflated foil balloons - light and cheap snag - hovering in the hundreds in the patrol area ... Try to highlight the "true target"!

Yeah, but solar panels of this size, can't you find it? And how are you going to deliver the foil balloon to such a height? Well, suppose, somehow, they delivered, so the false target will stand still, imitating an airship? All your "light and cheap snag" will gather in a heap and drift with the air currents. Or not in a bunch, but they will fly away anyway

[Rus2012]

Quote: Penetrator

solar panels of this size cannot be detected

... for starters, they stand on top. Secondly, the new solar cells are film and flexible.
About -

Quote: Penetrator

A foil ball

this same synthetic film, the basis of modern and future aircraft is lighter than air, only slightly "for radio visibility" with a light vacuum deposition ...

Quote: Penetrator

All your "light and cheap snag" will gather in a heap and drift with the air currents.

- it already depends on the tactics of their joint application, taking into account the conditions and given flight characteristics, don’t you?

[Penetrator]

Quote: Rus2012

it already depends on the tactics of their joint application, taking into account the conditions and given characteristics of the flight, don’t you?

No, I can’t find it. So you have not answered the question, how are you going to uncontrollable false goals to give characteristics of a practically motionless airship?

[Rus2012]

Quote: Penetrator

how are you going to uncontrollable false targets to give the characteristics of a practically motionless airship?

... man, do you really want to be revealed to you the tactics and technologies of disguise and the creation of "false targets" in this area?

Think for yourself ...

[Penetrator]

Quote: Rus2012

Think for yourself ...

Fucking answer. It seems you yourself do not know him. Even at the level of assumptions.

[Rus2012]

Quote: Penetrator

Fucking answer. It seems you yourself do not know him. Even at the level of assumptions.

... let it be for you Fucked up. You can express yourself stronger, but oh well - the Lord is the judge!

PS: My classmate and friend is engaged in them, and already with 2 decades ...

[Penetrator]

Quote: Rus2012

My classmate and friend is engaged in them, and since the twentieth anniversary ..

Judging by the fact that Russia has no obvious shifts (in two decades) in this area, your friend is simply getting his salary in vain. Or does he work for the Chinese?

[sniper]

Quote: _Vladislav_

Maybe a satellite in geostationary orbit. He is more inaccessible.

If I don’t confuse anything, then the geostationary orbit is in the plane of the equator and at an altitude of about 36 kilometers ... So there’s a little sense from such a remote spy ...

[just exp]

with good equipment, it is quite capable of detecting AUG.

[delvin-fil]

There is also geosynchronous. It's like in the pictures of the MCC. In the form of a figure eight. May be below 20000 km. above sea level.

[Falcon]

Quote: _Vladislav_

What is a fixed dimensional airship at an altitude of 100 km.

Nonsense. The article has a typo. An aerostat cannot rise to a height of 100km. He will not overcome the force of gravity.

In the best case, there will be km in the 50 area.

There’s nothing to bring down.

KKV from sm-3 does not work there. Such a blank cannot fly in the densities of mesosweers. Fall apart.

And other air defense does not operate above 35-40km. Since aerodynamic rudders are not effective in low density.

[srha]

Yeah, 100 km, an aircraft carrier fighter, the top of the military “food chain”, soaring high, at the maritime theater of war ...

The article is again from the category - for humanities, managers with other office plankton and superiors.

It is even hard for them to guess and climb into VIKI to see "the record for an unmanned balloon is 51,8 km", since there are no logical connections between balloon-airship-stratosphere. I will not say that the stratosphere ends at 50 km and the mesosphere begins, which is characterized by a decrease in temperature after the stratopause. About the calculation of the lift with an air density at an altitude of 100 km - 0,000555 grams per cubic meter, with which one should actually start, at first I did not want to write, but after a two-hour rzhach I found the strength to give a calculation - 0,000555 * 18000 cubic meters = 10 grams or 0,01 kg - uh-ha-ha ... ten gram carrier hunter...

Or maybe science and education have already died?

[Penetrator]

Quote: srha

Or maybe science and education have already died?

Do not throw beads in front of representatives of the order of certain mammals. They said: "The Chinese have trampled all the laws of physics and chemistry and were able to create a space airship" - that means that it is so. Let people believe in Chinese folk tales - there is no need to kill a dream with your science

[Zefr]

Or maybe you, too, go into Yandex, type in "Space airship" and see what is happening in the world?

[kizhe]

They’ll test it once, and then they will ride tourists.

[Bayonet]

Quote: _Vladislav_

Maybe a satellite in geostationary orbit. He is more inaccessible.

How much does he make out from there? All the same, 35786 km.

[YARUSSIAN39]

And what’s funny, our MO seems to be also in the development of airships with a rigid body ..: D

[Penetrator]

Quote: bulvas

The satellite will not hang over one place, like an airship

Only this airship, in the event of nothing, no one is allowed to hang for a long time. Excellent overall fixed target. In addition, I do not believe that the Chinese could lift the airship almost into space. They ride on the ears, and you are being driven.

[goose]

I think he could climb 24 km without problems, or even higher, where the battery power would be several times greater than on the surface. In fact, this means that for medium-range air defense systems it is already slightly vulnerable. Radar visibility is the same in question.

[venaya]

Quote: bulvas

The satellite will not hang over one place, like an airship

In order for the airship to hang over one place, it must be firmly tied to the fulcrum on the ground, as it was in WWII, otherwise the air currents will carry it to another continent.

[DIVAN SOLDIER]

Imagine a cable 100 km long ??

[Penetrator]

Quote: DIVAN SOLDIER

Imagine a cable 100 km long ??

On the fishing line they’ll raise what.

[Mikhail Krapivin]

Your will, comrades, but you are not saying something. Why cable 100 km., Why fishing line? With the help of GPRS it will position itself and the engines will constantly adjust its location. And taking into account an unlimited amount of energy, the idea is valid, ours should be adopted. To achieve more time of non-stop work, a greater resource and to problem points - let him hang, watch, listen.

[g1v2]

In my opinion, the idea is great. For intelligence, for example - for example, a pair of such airships was hung over Ukraine or Syria and we get a constant picture. Everything is simpler and cheaper than launching a new satellite and installing it in a geostationary orbit. MATRASNIKES WILL FINALLY SUCCESS, BUT THERE IS OTHER - UNlikely. AT A HEIGHT OF 100 KM, FAR EVERY COUNTRY HAS MEANS OF DAMAGE. In my opinion, the idea is quite credible. And you never know what you can hang on it - intelligence, drones, for example, weapons. In general, I think that the idea is worthwhile and deserves to be implemented here.

[voyaka uh]

for g1v2;
I totally agree. In Israel, several companies make military balloons:
RT Aerostats Systems, RAFAEL.
who sell balloons to our army and police and export to America.
Balloons operate at altitudes inaccessible to MANPADS and most anti-aircraft guns.

The Chinese went further with a stratospheric balloon. Well done.

[Penetrator]

Quote: voyaka uh

The Chinese went further with a stratospheric balloon. Well done.

This is not a "stratospheric balloon", but a thermospheric one. I can't imagine how such a technique will behave at a temperature of -90 C.

[xtur]

> you never know what you can hang on it - intelligence equipment, drones for example, weapons. In general, I think that the idea is worthwhile and deserves to be implemented in our country.

Well, yes, for example, a mirror repeater for a center that is on Earth. And if it will be protected by its own air defense / missile defense system, it will not be so easy to bring down

[Penetrator]

Quote: Mikhail Krapivin

Using GPRS, it will position itself and the engines will constantly adjust its location

Do not get tired of adjusting (there are not weak winds)? Plus, a lot of energy will go to the de-icing system. What kind of power should solar panels give out so that all this functions properly? Yes, questions also arise for the lining material .. In my opinion, an unrealizable and meaningless project.

[Rus2012]

Quote: Penetrator

Plus, a lot of energy will go to the de-icing system.

... the question is - to what heights does the risk of icing extend?
More precisely, what is the content of water vapor in height?

[Penetrator]

The fact of the matter is that I am confident in the inability of the Chinese to raise such a device above the stratosphere.

[Rus2012]

Quote: Mikhail Krapivin

our need to adopt

... well, where and where, and with us these opportunities have always been in sight. A whole design bureau and factory has always existed in the USSR-RF, in the glorious city of Dolgoprudny ...

And now the work is in full swing!
Dozens of different types of aircraft are lighter than air created and tested for various applications ...

[venaya]

Quote: DIVAN SOLDIER

Imagine a cable 100 km long ??

Here I am about the same. Satellite projects with a geostationary orbit and a cable of more than 100 km existed. Currently, there are no materials of the required strength and specific gravity capable of implementing this project, although in the future, with the development of the science of materials science, everything is possible.

[Rus2012]

Quote: venaya

So that the airship hangs over one place

... for this he has E engines!

[venaya]

Quote: Rus2012

So that the airship hangs over one place ... it has E engines for this!

In the upper atmosphere, the air velocity is much higher than that of the earth. To stay in one place, with such a windage facility, you need engine power in excess of the power of an economical aircraft. It makes no sense to fence a garden.

[Rus2012]

Quote: venaya

In the upper atmosphere, the air velocity is much higher

But bring me the wind speeds at altitudes of 36km ...

[venaya]

Quote: Rus2012

But bring me the wind speeds at altitudes of 36km ...

Due to the friction of the air, given its viscosity, the speed of air flows decreases with decreasing altitude. This is a general law. "... wind speeds at 36 km"- given the ultra-low density and viscosity of the remnants of the atmosphere at these altitudes, the possible flow rate is even higher. Analyze it yourself.

[Rus2012]

Quote: venaya

, air velocity decreases with decreasing altitude. This is a general law. Given the ultra-low density and viscosity of atmospheric residues at these altitudes, the possible flow rates are even higher. Analyze yourself.

... speed of what and relative to what?
Or are you confusing the "velocity of mass movement" with "track" and "instrumental"?
The airship does not need to "go against the wind", as a rule, they fly using the directions and the wind rose.

Getsteam stream flows (stream) can have speeds 100-400km / h, affect only ground speed. As in physics, with the passing one it develops with the speed of truth, and the counter component is subtracted from the truth ..
With height, the wind intensifies relative to the earth (a stationary observer) and, as a result of the Coriolis acceleration, turns to the right.
In our hemisphere, western winds prevail (from where to where).

An aircraft "bumpiness" occurs at the entrance to the jet flow zone, at the convergence and divergence of flows, at a sharp change in the direction of the flow.

Below is the wind speed in height relative to the ground ...

[Penetrator]

Quote: Rus2012

The airship does not need to "go against the wind", as a rule, they fly using the directions and the wind rose.

So, I don’t understand how it is not necessary to "go against the wind"? The Chinese created this apparatus for observation, that is, it should be located in a certain area. And, in your opinion, let him fly an arbitrary course "using the directions and the wind rose"?

[Rus2012]

Quote: Penetrator

that is, it must be located in a specific area.

... changing course, direction, altitude, so that using the wind (force and direction), he can - "loit in a given area."
Including "hovering" modes - dynamic parrying of flow parameters with the help of its propellers.

[Penetrator]

Quote: Rus2012

. changing course, direction, altitude, so that using the wind (force and direction) it can - "loit in a given area".

And, shining with its solar battery, give out its location in space? But what about the invisibility declared by you? Confused, dear?

[Zefr]

Wait. That alone they say, he can not rise, because there is no air, and then there is a version that it will blow away with the wind (!). So is there air or not?
And it is said that it does not hang for a long time, only two days. So it can’t. Perhaps it needs to be refueled for corrective jet (possibly) engines.

[lelikas]

Quote: bulvas

The satellite will not hang over one place, like an airship

Geostationary orbit.

[Rus2012]

Quote: lelikas

Geostationary orbit.

And what can he discover with 36tkm?
That's right - only torches starting ICBMs ...

[Now we are free]

Count Zeppelin is returning ...
I remember how he bombed London at an altitude beyond the reach of the English fighters. Now it is the turn of the Americans with their aircraft carriers ...
Of course, all this can be a fake thrown by the Chinese, BUT after a missile salvo from the Caspian Sea through the territory of Syria, I personally am not surprised at anything in this world ...

[roman_pilot]

Really ?! Have you heard about the geostationary orbit?

[shuhartred]

Quote: bulvas

The satellite will not hang over one place, like an airship

Geostationary will be. The height of the orbit is 36000 km.

[Maksus]

The stratostat with Baumgartner rose to 39 068. The question is, will this Chinese be inhabited or unmanned?

[just exp]

will be called a geostationary satellite.

[Blondy]

Guys, 100 km is journalistic ravings
There, atmospheric pressure is 2,4 * 10-4 mmHg (-4 - degree), i.e. almost a vacuum - what kind of ballooning airships can.

[srha]

Quote: Blondy

this is journalistic nonsense

Now, I not only fall in love with blondes, but also begin to respect them.

[mealnik2005]

"The satellite will not hang over one place like an airship"

You tell this satellite dish ...):

[Bayonet]

Quote: bulvas

The satellite will not hang over one place, like an airship

It will be at an altitude of 35786 km. and then over the equator

[varov14]

Something, I doubt that he will hang in one place, he is strong for 48 hours, apparently so that he does not take far from the house.

[Same lech]

then you can’t imagine when there is no full-fledged satellite constellation.

Well, it’s cheap and cheerful and can completely replace the low-orbit constellation of satellites in terms of efficiency and low cost.

However, it’s difficult to imagine 100 km of altitude .... it’s hard to imagine .... how much time it will rise and fall.

[Oladushkin]

You shouldn't laugh. Now the style of warfare is the economic style. Do you think you blew up an enemy aircraft carrier - just destroyed a ship as a military force? It is not correct to read between the lines this way - caused damage in so many milliards of money. And therefore one inexpensive airship, which "from above" sees almost as an expensive satellite, will be very useful against the expensive "toys" of the Pentagon.

In order to kill a fly, you will not even run after it with a plasmogan or aim a robot at it in the 21 century? It’s easier to take a fly swatter, not to lie a sample, since the 10 century :) (presumably)

[Temples]

How is confidence that an airship is inexpensive?
Has anyone already climbed 100km on a similar technique?
If everything is so cheap and just like that, why are there no examples?

[Rus2012]

Quote: Temples

How is confidence that an airship is inexpensive?
Has anyone already climbed 100km on a similar technique?
If everything is so cheap and just like that, why are there no examples?

Here are some examples ...
40km - quite achievable. And with new materials and higher ...

[Temples]

Do you really think that 40km and 100km are nearby ???
In this case, there’s nothing to talk about.

[Corsair]

Quote: Temples

How is confidence that an airship is inexpensive?

I think in comparing the lower cost of the airship or hundreds of airships with the cost of one aircraft carrier - the victory will obviously not be the last.

[Temples]

I think in comparing the lower cost of the airship or hundreds of airships with the cost of one aircraft carrier - the victory will obviously not be the last.

So you first create ONE airship, which is ABLE to climb 100km.
And then tell me how much this event got up.
And then think and guess.

ps By American standards, this is generally space!
According to the classification of the United States Air Force (United States Air Force, United State Air Forces, USAF), a space flight is considered to be a flight whose height exceeds 50 miles (80 km 467 m).

[Corsair]

Quote: Temples

So you first create ONE airship, which is ABLE to climb 100km.

And why exactly 100 km is needed? why not choose 40-50 as the most optimal?

[The Chat]

How can a metal cylinder of helium with a volume of 18 thousand cubic meters be inexpensive, despite the fact that helium is terribly flowing, the smallest hole - and there is none ..., incl. it’s enough with some kind of laser (from a satellite or from the earth) or just a micro-rocket, which will fly up to 100 km up to reach this giant (!!!) target - and there is none ....

[Rus2012]

Quote: Penetrator

What can you imagine when there is no full-fledged satellite constellation.

... finally, stratospheric balloons and high-altitude airships are much cheaper. As a conclusion to the duty height, and production. Many companies in the world have been doing this right now. Both in matters of intelligence, surveillance, and for communication purposes.
There is a project of round-the-world 24-hour polar stratostats.

placed solar panels that generate electricity for engines

... there is a problem in the types of propulsion - the propeller is not good. But I know one young Russian genius who solved this problem! :)

* There are doubts that the altitude will reach 100km. Here is 40-60 - quite ...

[Rus2012]

... what kind of pi ... is it minus?
For "smart" - and how will the system of observation, reconnaissance and target designation be built in the polar regions of the Arctic, where the entire military district of the Russian Federation is "imprisoned" now?
Exactly round-the-clock quasi-heliostationary "24-hour stratospheric balloon airships!"
For the ignorant, hanging a satellite on the pole is unrealistic ...

[Penetrator]

Quote: Rus2012

there is doubt that the altitude will reach 100km. Here 40-60 - quite.

Damn, what was I originally talking about ?! About the stratosphere! And you, personally, were rubbing me here about the hundred-kilometer height achieved by this device. Did you turn on the back?

[Rus2012]

Quote: Penetrator

And you, personally, were rubbing me here about the hundred-kilometer height achieved by this device.

... re-read all my posts on the topic!

[i80186]

Quote: Penetrator

The next will be the "ICBM Interceptor Kite"

In 2005, the Pentagon announced the development of a program for the construction of military balloons and airships, which will operate in the uppermost layers of the atmosphere, almost at the lower boundary of space. These balloons will keep in touch, carry out reconnaissance from the stratosphere, in which airplanes cannot fly.
In 2005, the Pentagon's Advanced Defense Research Projects Agency (DARPA) also commissioned the U.S. Air Force to conduct research into the development of a reconnaissance balloon capable of operating on the upper border of the stratosphere, that is, at an altitude of about 80 km. In fact, it will be a suborbital apparatus.(W)
Such are the things. If the Chinese really succeeded, then only one thing can be said - handsome.

[Rus2012]

Quote: i80186

If the Chinese really succeeded, then only one thing can be said - handsome.

... yes, and we are not far behind

[Penetrator]

Quote: i80186

Such are the things. If the Chinese really succeeded, then only one thing can be said - handsome.

You can draw a lot of beautiful pictures. And the Americans, instead of engaging in similar projects, would at least bring their conventional weapons to mind. At least the same F-35th or even the notorious missile defense system.

[Vek]

Quote: Penetrator

What can you imagine when there is no full-fledged satellite constellation. And the title of the article actually killed "Airship-hunter for aircraft carriers", yeah. Next up will be the ICBM Interceptor Kite?

In general, YES =))) the title of the article is gasping =))) Bliiiinnnn, the author of the ukroSMI campaign re-read and learned a lot from there =))) The main thing is a powerful headline, and the censor doesn’t bite the aftara for the campaign, but our orderlies managed to introduce an antidote before the patient passed away. Unfortunately, the poison managed to disrupt some of the mosquito’s neural connections and the article does not quite match the title =))))

[varov14]

Apparently they have such high-precision bombs that from a hundred kilometers they will fall into the "Football field, envy.

[Scoun]

Something that comes to my mind is Pavel Volya's banter from the gum ... about the fact that an airship in a hard shell was developed in Skolkovo ...))) Although rigid airships are still called "zeppelin" according to Count Zeppelin.
it’s necessary to google this topic ... but the airship building was bent after a series of terrible disasters .. maybe modern technology will breathe life into the industry that came with aeronautics together but ahead of its time.

[Rus2012]

Quote: Scoun

But the blimp was bent

... in the Union it never finally bent!
Read the history of the Dolgoprudninsky Design Bureau "Dirigible Building" ...

[Scoun]

Quote: Rus2012

Read the story

At one time I read a lot about airships and their inglorious demise ... but the issue with airships is still not closed .. even as a TRUCK, an airship is a great thing .. that's just to make it less combustible, dangerous and safer.

[Zefr]

I never watched Comedy, but all of Volya’s appearances in him are somehow ragged. As if he woke up one morning and was very surprised by the world around him.

[jaguarstas]

Speed ​​characteristics are very modest.
Big target and no armor. Etc.
The pros are clearly not enough to outweigh the cons.

[NOMADE]

Yeah of course. especially "no armor" BGG))) it as such, practically on airplanes.
on the topic, the Chinese were surprised again! As far as I know, no one has ever launched an airship (controlled) at 100 km in height, and this is essentially the lower part of space. this airship can be an excellent alternative to low-altitude "disposable" satellites (reconnaissance, relay and even AWACS)! a serious weapon, of course, while hardly able to carry. this is a variant of "asymmetric" control measures. 100 km - airship, just very impressive! I wonder how he moves? there is already practically a vacuum, movement with the help of propellers and turbojet engines is practically impossible .. can someone tell me? Or is there a line to correct the direction of movement?

[Yon_Silent]

As a propulsor under such conditions (at 100 km of flight altitude), only the reactive principle can be used. If something else could have been done, then they would have worked for a long time on satellites.
The question here is different. Preamble: there are so-called automatic drifting balloons (ADS) with a flight altitude of up to 40 km (on average). At the same time, the volume for a closed-type balloon (the smallest) that lifts a centner load is about 30 thousand cubic meters. For a free-type ADA, this figure is even higher ... there it can reach up to 80 thousand m3. This is due to the fact that the Archimedean force is directly proportional to the pressure difference in the shell and overboard. At altitudes of 40 km and above, this difference becomes miserable - so you have to get the right value by increasing the volume. In addition to the fact that the film thickness should not exceed 20 microns, otherwise it will not reach the desired height.
Now the ambulance: and at what height can a Chinese balloon with a volume of 18 thousand cubic meters be able to rise, if we assume that the mass of the structure and the payload is not more than 100 kg? (which is a big understatement, because an unmanned airship is structurally more complicated than a usual drone - there should be gas ballons and a valve system, a battery station, a temperature control system, heating of important components, etc.). Places where the shell structurally has stress concentrators (tail tail adjoining, suspension, cable routes, bow reinforcement) should be reinforced - there the thickness can in no way be less than a millimeter - also weighting.
I am inclined to believe that the figure of 100 km is a little exaggerated and an extra zero is attributed. The figure of 10 km is more real.

[venaya]

capable of rising to a height of 100 kilometers

We closely monitor the handles. We are waiting for reports on the establishment of a new world record for the height of lifting devices lighter than air.

[lelikas]

Quote: venaya

We closely monitor the handles. We are waiting for reports on the establishment of a new world record for the height of lifting devices lighter than air.

So far it has been rising no higher than 20 km. The name Yuanmeng is Dream.

[Penetrator]

Quote: lelikas

So far it has been rising no higher than 20 km. The name Yuanmeng - in translation Dream

Alexei, do you understand that this phrase destroyed the world of children's fantasies? Here a lot of people believed in the practical implementation of such a project, and you ... How not ashamed!

[tchoni]

Height may not become an obstacle to the American system of ...

[kil 31]

The aircraft of the new type is filled with 18 in thousands of cubic meters of helium and can be airborne for up to 48 hours. In its upper part there are solar panels that generate electricity for engines, and communication and reconnaissance equipment is located in the gondola.

Something small he will be in the air. How much time will he rise and go into position? How long does it take to get to base?

[Zefr]

I also draw the attention of physicists to this. Doesn't hang for long. Means the fuel is running out. In this case, "capable of climbing 100 km." Do not fly, but climb! Probably in dynamic mode, on engines.

[rassom]

Konstantin Eduardovich Tsiolkovsky believed that the future lies with missiles and airships.

[pvv113]

can be in the air for up to 48 hours

Interestingly, and by what parameters is this time limited?

[venaya]

Quote: pvv113

can be in the air for up to 48 hours
Interestingly, and by what parameters is this time limited?

Time is limited only by the need to refuel, so to speak, "solar panels".

[Engineer]

Quote: bulvas

The satellite will not hang over one place, like an airship

About geostationary did not even hear? The satellite is not subject to icing and wind is not an obstacle to it. But this sailing is huge, and stratospheric winds are not even earthly hurricanes for you. Well, no one canceled the icing due to large temperature differences. In general, for the time being it smells like a fake to me like with an anti-ship missile, which somehow got into a path in the sand using a radar head. It’s ridiculous.

[NOMADE]

yes, I agree. somehow it smells like information "stuffing" .. after all, 100 km altitude for an airship, this is not a joke, but already a serious application .. I would certainly like to be wrong, but ..

[pts-m]

you look. the clever Katayans still begin to conduct experiments with a cable league to hold the space station and deliver all kinds of goods along the cable. so the speed of the Earth’s rotation might decrease or a huge surface crusher will be pulled out of the planet. wow, there will be a problem.

[Penetrator]

Quote: PTS-m

or a huge kusman of the surface is pulled out of the planet. wow, there will be a problem.

Will the Chinese send themselves into space? With all of China?

[Monster_Fat]

Do not forget how much the stratospheric probes, which were used for exploration by our "sworn partners" in the 60s, were spoiled by blood. Even now, there are no sufficiently effective means of dealing with them, in terms of "cost-effectiveness".

[Rus2012]

Quote: Monster_Fat

Do not forget how much the stratospheric probes, which were used for exploration by our "sworn partners" in the 60s, were spoiled by blood. Even now, there are no sufficiently effective means of dealing with them.

+ 1! Exactly!
Schoolchildren-failing students and stupid kreakly-"minuses" have no idea both about the problems of interception and the construction of modern aircraft lighter than air - they carry a blizzard about the ease of destruction and the impossibility of building such devices!

Link - Stratospheric balloon hunting - from "cats" to rockets
http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2011-02-25/12_stratostaty.html

At the beginning of the 60 of the XX century, at the height of the Cold War, it became known about violations of the USSR state border by “meteorological probes” in the Baltic region. Several similar cases have been reported on the southern borders. Weather balloons were shot down by fighter aircraft. When the "probes" began to appear over the USSR regularly, it was discovered that in containers suspended from them were equipment for aerial photography and anti-Soviet literature.

The ball was a multi-sectional structure, and if one of the sections was damaged, then this did not affect the lifting force of the ball. It was known that a ball having in the lower half of the “hole” remained in the air even before 12 hours.

Gradually, the design of the "weather balloons", the material from which they were made, the contents of the suspension changed. The material was thinning and hardening, the diameter of the shells grew, and the suspension became heavier. At first, the flight altitude was several kilometers, then it increased so much that the probes became unattainable for fighter aircraft. Its attacks were increasingly unsuccessful, which led to the penetration of "weather balloons" deep into our territory. There was a need for a serious assessment at first glance of a new real threat that arose from nothing.
It was decided to conduct military exercises to assess the effectiveness of the fight against the "balls" using all available in the arsenal of the Air Force and Air Defense aircraft equipment and weapons.

To this end, according to Alexander Makurenkov, in the summer of 1970, a group of specialists was formed, consisting of military and civilians, led by aviation marshal Savitsky. At one of the air bases, they assembled domestic aviation equipment designed to intercept and destroy all types of air targets. All Soviet firms that developed fighter jets, interceptors, aircraft weapons and weapons, airborne radars, radar and other weapons control systems were represented here.

By that time, a sufficient number of "weather balloons" had been shot down and their design analyzed. Among experts, “weather balloons” by that time received the name - automatic drifting balloon (ADA).

The ADA was well detected visually and P40P guided missiles were launched, having a warhead weighing 50 kg, P98, C5 and C9 unguided missiles, and an air gun was used. The tests gave interesting results. Heavy guided missiles were powerless against the ADA - they passed through it, leaving a hole equal to the diameter of the rocket, the fuses did not fire, and the ADA remained in the air. Unguided shells also proved to be ineffective for the same reasons. The best results were obtained when firing from aircraft guns, the shells of which had particularly sensitive fuses. But this turned out to be an ineffective means of combating ADA ...

[edeligor]

Do not tell my tomatoes! Our "outnumbered" Eastern ally invented the spacewalk airship? Well, this is at least a BREAKTHROUGH! Now it is mono to put cargo into near-earth orbit practically free of charge! To the author - 1, and a small footnote for development: The International Aviation Union established a 100km outer space boundary, because at this altitude the first space velocity is needed to create lift.

[srha]

Still, these are different things, to reach 100 km altitude, they say (I do not quite believe) that this was done by the FAU in the 40s of the 20th century, or "to put the load into low-earth orbit" so that it does not fall. The difference in the required energy is an order of magnitude. You can calculate the costs of kinetic (speed) and potential (height) energy necessary to overcome gravity.
And so, completely agree with you, crazy article.

[Mountain shooter]

Well, nonsense. Balloons barely climb 40 km, there is not enough lift. In an almost vacuum at 100 km height, the weight of the shells will have nothing to compensate for. Well, the Chinese are such Chinese ... and their laws of physics are Chinese. Not like Lao Vayev.

[Jurkovs]

It would be better if they did not do it. Some kind of creative impotence. After all, you can create a drone for an altitude of 10 km., By the way, the Raptor in my opinion just flies at such an altitude. I’m not talking about satellites. After all, Rogozin suggested that we buy rocket engines from us, and go ahead.

[Mentat]

Quote: pvv113

can be in the air for up to 48 hours

Interestingly, and by what parameters is this time limited?

Crew breathing reserve.

[roskot]

Chinese know-how. The move for the Americans.

[kill the fascist]

if you don’t go into technical details, the idea is not bad.

[Whowhy]

For a helium airship, the altitude limit is 22km.

[chunga-changa]

You have a bit outdated information.

The current record was set on October 24, 2014 by Alan Eustace, climbing to a height of about 41 meters in a spacesuit attached to a balloon over the US state of New Mexico.

The altitude record for the unmanned ball is 53,0 km (173 feet). The ball was launched by JAXA on May 882, 25 from Iwate Prefecture, Japan. This is the highest altitude ever achieved by a balloon apparatus.

Both numbers fit between 20-100km.)

[lilian]

In some sources, the figure of 48 hours appears as the duration of a test flight, in another, questionable for me, as autonomy. Most likely the first is more correct. It indicates autonomy for half a year, this already explains the presence of solar panels, otherwise what for they are needed.

The Chinese did not say why they need this airship, so its role as an aircraft carrier hunter is fiction. It is possible that about the ceiling of 100 km fantasized. After all, its mover is a screw. The role of the airship, as I understand it, is the communication center. This is not bad, he doesn’t even need to be in the front line, from a height of several tens of kilometers hundreds of thousands of square kilometers are accessible to him.

[imugn]

For those who are too lazy to search:

The geostationary orbit can only be accurately provided on a circle located directly above the equator, with a height very close to 35 km

[nrex]

Everything is correct. They spied on a condom with explosives from ISIS and invented a space derizbandel. Everyone wants to come up with something new, well, at least fantasize. And then Russia and Armenia are spilling the Middle East, but these are out of work. Yes, sounds like a menacing, "airship-hunter for aircraft carriers"

[Svetlana]

At a height of 100 km, an airship can take off only if it is equipped with a rocket engine.
Archimedean lifting force is too small at this height.
1,80E+04 m3 airship volume filled with helium
5,55E-07 kg/m3 air density at 100 km altitude
9,99E-03 kg Archimedean lifting force

[sa-ag]

Come on, hunt for aircraft carriers, that's why not try to make an air launch out of it, pulls out a rocket on the suspension by about 50 km, drops it, it starts the engines and go into orbit? Interesting engineering challenge, unlike these "aircraft carrier killers" :-)

[The Chat]

To lift a rocket weighing several tons on an airship, calculate the volume of the airship ... better from a slingshot - a million Chinese people pull a giant slingshot and shoot the rocket 50 km up. Here it is! This is an interesting engineering task ...

[Corsair]

Quote: Le Chat

To lift a rocket weighing several tons on an airship, calculate the volume of the airship ... better from a slingshot - a million Chinese people pull a giant slingshot and shoot the rocket 50 km up. Here it is! This is an interesting engineering task ...

Incidentally, the theme of the slingshot was already in development - the only thing there is not a slingshot in real form, but an accelerating shaft of several hundred meters, in which a rocket / projectile was accelerated. Well, space is still in development - there is a desire to create a launch block in orbit of the earth and send satellites and ships to deep space already from there, after collecting the necessary layout directly in orbit.

[gladysheff2010]

Quote: Jon_ Quiet

Now the ambulance: and at what height can a Chinese balloon with a volume of 18 thousand cubic meters be able to rise if we assume that the mass of the structure and the payload is not more than 100 kg? (which is a big understatement, because an unmanned airship is structurally more complicated than a usual drone - there should be a valve system, a battery station, a temperature control system, heating of important components, etc.). Places where the shell structurally has stress concentrators (tail tail adjoining, suspension, cable routes, bow reinforcement) should be reinforced - there the thickness can in no way be less than a millimeter - also weighting.

... and that’s all, not counting the working fluid and the propulsion system of such a machine itself !!! The result is Doubtful!

[nrex]

Quote: sa-ag

Come on, hunt for aircraft carriers, that's why not try to make an air launch out of it, pulls out a rocket on the suspension by about 50 km, drops it, it starts the engines and go into orbit? Interesting engineering challenge, unlike these "aircraft carrier killers" :-)

Respected. To this height, an empty Derzhbandel does not get wet, not like a rocket.

[brr1]

They filled it with "dark matter" or what? 100 km is serious

[van zai]

Simply in the Russian newspaper "zeros beguiled". 10km is quite what you need.

[Riv]

Che hardly believes in this superproject. The wind speed in the stratosphere is tens of meters per second. No engine can hold an airship caught in high-altitude air current. The cable will not hold either. During the war, Japanese balloons reached the United States, and even with explosives.
And above the stratosphere, the air is too discharged (tens of times less pressure than above sea level) and a completely fantastic balloon will be required to lift at least any significant weight. In general, for a device that is lighter than air, the world record for lifting heights is just over 50 km. And here - a hundred.
Tales of it all.

[Tjeck]

[quote = bulvas] Is it really easier to lift the apparatus of air almost into space?


in military use, of course, nonsense, but you can raise it. here a balloon with an iPhone flew into space:

[made13]

Red Alert gains reality :-)

[Mentat]

Quote: Riv

In general, for a device that is lighter than air, the world record for lifting heights is just over 50 km. And here - a hundred.
Tales of it all.

50 km is not just a record, it is the theoretical maximum lift of the device lighter than air.

The record for lifting a person on a stratosphere balloon today is 39 km.
So this is not a fairy tale, but a duck under a side dish of spreading cranberries with noodles.

[Free Island]

flight time is only 48 hours .. I understand that the Chinese airship will hunt for its own Chinese aircraft carriers in the waters of its own Chinese sea ????

[classic46]

Oh well, yes, well, yes, such stuffing periodically appears. The Chinese can not fight, not their path, and they do not need

[Wildfox]

In my opinion, the idea is interesting and realizable, even if not 100 km (this is most likely just the height of the stratosphere added for the wow effect), but let's say the same 50 km is completely nothing. At this altitude, the entire South China Sea should be in full view.
My little one, but the forum users wrote about sailing, it will be at such a height no more than a light aircraft near the ground, resistance in the discharged air also falls. The second for adjusting the course is important engine power (should be equal to energy consumption, with a small air resistance not very large). And the third is for fans of satellites in geostationary orbit, it’s very expensive to know if they reorient to separate land areas, look for options for this problem and if you do not take into account the reorientation, the photo will be bullshit. + The width of the data transmission channel affects the delay of information. Qualitative photos can be considered in my opinion only 2-4 hours after they are captured. Crochet a gun and elephants.
At the expense of the efficiency of the screws, it depends on the swept area, and in order to achieve the same thrust at a pressure 100 times less than that of the earth, the screw roughly speaking is enough to increase only 10 times. I think we will see how it will fly at an altitude of 30-35 km and briefly rise to an altitude of 50 and that's it.
No need to pounce on the Chinese that they can't !!! Yes, they have gaps in the fundamental sciences and, as you can see, they fill them. It is unlikely that you will say that they completely "xeried" this derivative.

[Rus2012]

Quote: WildFox

Yes, they have gaps in the fundamental sciences and, as you can see, they fill them. It is unlikely that you will say that they completely "xeried" this derivative.

... You basically correctly noted the appropriateness and necessity of using the aircraft lighter than air. I will add only some touches.
1. Chinese designers do not create these devices from scratch. I note that many developers in this field work in cooperation (not only Russians, Jews and Chinese, but many others who joined - the same Africans, Indians ...)
2. Ultra-high-altitude aircraft - it will not even be a stratospheric balloon or an airship in its usual form, but something completely futuristic with fantasy elements, which was not there before: heavy-duty nano-film material, new film solar cells, composite carbon-fiberglass-construction materials, avionics-light-emitting diodes with artificial intelligence elements for an unmanned version, propulsion systems on new principles ...)

Military airships: what will be the Russian Air Force of the future - http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201507061801-4yph.htm
excerpts -

The fact that inhabited airships can be armed with the Russian army has been said more than once. And so it became known that by the end of the 2018 year the Atlant airship will be built in the interests of the Russian Ministry of Defense.
...
Avgur-RosAeroSystems, which offers to produce airships for the Russian army, has the ability to conduct a full cycle of work to create aeronautical equipment. The design of the apparatus is carried out by its own design bureau, and multifunctional production includes a unique section for the assembly of shells and a modern welding line. There is also its own flight test complex and aviation training center.
...
The current airships are no longer the simple devices of the last century, and not even the Gindenburg giant. Their body is based on a multilayer composite fabric, and the shell is made of modern high-strength materials. By the way, the use of composite materials provides an airship and another plus: stealth for air defense systems. The device is transparent to radio waves and does not radiate heat. The shells are filled not with explosive hydrogen, as before, but with non-combustible helium. In modern airships, an autopilot system and other high-tech equipment are also used.
...
The military future of airships and balloons is very real. The Dolgoprudnensky Automation Design Bureau is currently working on the Peresvet device, which is capable of detecting Tomahawk and Tomahawk cruise missiles at a distance of up to 400 kilometers. As the representative of the Design Bureau Sergey Bendin emphasizes, the radar station installed at Peresvet simply “hangs” at a height of several kilometers, so it does not have “dead zones”.
...
Today, the emphasis is on transport and reconnaissance use, as well as on the use of these devices for warning and emergency response. In the 2014 year, the Military Industrial Commission under the Government of the Russian Federation included in the program “Innovative Transport of the North” the introduction of a monitoring system for the Arctic regions using airships equipped with thermal imagers, radars, laser sensors and video cameras.

[chunga-changa]

Yuanmeng carries communication systems and sensors for optical and electronic intelligence, which allows it to act as a support base for Chinese military aircraft and unmanned aerial vehicles in the event of the outbreak of large-scale hostilities and the loss of satellite communications and reconnaissance.
... Yuanmeng can always be in direct line of sight from over a hundred thousand square miles. The vast Yuanmeng radar coverage means an increase in warning time about such threats as cruise missiles and UAVs, giving Chinese troops a great opportunity to detect and destroy such threats.

From a height of 20 km, a radio horizon of approx. 250km That is, at an altitude of 25 km, he will detect a missile at the time of launch and give guidance to ground-based missile defense systems, he will detect aircraft from an even greater distance. Now imagine that he flies in the depths of defense in a hundred kilometers. from the front line. He sees almost everything in his rear and 150km in the rear of the enemy, it can only be shot down theoretically. As you can see for all this 100km of height he does not even need to be close. They say that he will be able to fly up to six months, this is the time of a normal, small war. Before us is AWACS in Chinese, in my opinion a great idea.
Of the minuses - in the stratosphere there are winds up to 300 km / h, here no engines except jet engines can cope. Vulnerable to strikes from space.

[Karlovar]

It is clear to Kot that the main purpose of this apparatus is AWACS, relaying signals, pointing at altitudes of 30-40-50 km. (Behind the eyes) ... No bombs, missiles, machine guns ....

[Svetlana]

By warming the airship’s shell and helium inside it with a laser beam from the Earth, you can increase the maximum height of the airship, and you can increase the flight altitude even more by raising the air pressure under the airship’s bottom, heating the air under the airship with focused microwave radiation from the Earth. So that focused microwave radiation at pre-breakdown levels of microwave power can be absorbed in the air, streamer RF discharges are created under the airship’s bottom for preliminary ionization of the air using a Tesla high-frequency on-board transformer.

[YaMZ-238]

And where is the inscription made in china ???

[Svetlana]

Tesla's resonant HF transformers are made not only in China. Radio amateurs call it "kacher". The circuit of the modern version of the kicker is similar to the circuit of the bridge-type welding inverter on IGBT transistors. But instead of a voltage-lowering resonant HF transformer on a toroidal ferrite core, a Tesla air-core resonant HF transformer is used. To ignite a non-self-sustaining microwave discharge under the bottom of the airship at pre-breakdown strengths of microwave electromagnetic fields (with a frequency of 10..11 GHz) focused from the Earth, just as in an electric-discharge CO2 laser, a high-frequency capacitive discharge (with a frequency of 30 ... 900 KHz) is used. ... see Yu.P. Raiser. Gas discharge physics, 2009;