Military Review

American portal: Russian squall missile "Squall" - one of the best in the world

147
American resource We Are The Mighty, specializing in military topics, called the missile "Squall", designed to destroy underwater targets, one of the best in the world among similar weapons, reports RIA News.


American portal: Russian squall missile "Squall" - one of the best in the world


The publication notes that “Flurry” moves in the water, like a torpedo, while creating an “air pocket”, which reduces friction and allows the rocket to literally “fly” under water at speeds above 380 km / h. ”

“A missile warhead in 463 pounds, detonating at a set time, can destroy nearby enemy submarines and approaching torpedoes,” write the rating authors.

According to the resource, "Flurry" is produced from a standard 533-millimeter torpedo tube at a depth of about 100 m, and the rocket itself leaves the machine at a speed close to 93 km / h, after which the rocket engine starts, which leads weapon to speed, which in 4-5 times exceeds the capabilities of conventional torpedo missiles. "

The authors also note that the rocket "retains a high level of probability of hitting the target (80%) at a distance of 7 km."

The edition also included the American MK torpedoes, the French F-21 torpedoes, and another Russian T-5 rocket into the top list.
Photos used:
http://army-news.ru/
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  1. Svyatogor
    Svyatogor 25 October 2015 09: 08 New
    11
    Who would doubt that? It's only the beginning.
    1. Tor5
      Tor5 25 October 2015 09: 11 New
      +1
      Мощная и "умная" штука!
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 25 October 2015 09: 58 New
        20
        Here you went over! Powerful it all depends on the warhead, but smart is unlikely. She moves with uncontrollable speed. High speeds achieved with the help of chemical reactions, which then create the draft of the exhaust gases, are generally not controlled. Therefore, until an engine is created capable of creating such speeds and on a controlled function specified by the operator, it is premature to speak of a smart torpedo. In addition, the so-called. fuel does not stock up on a long range.
        1. demo
          demo 25 October 2015 10: 54 New
          +2
          Yes.
          The question immediately arises for our designers.
          А ракета-торпеда меняет направление, если образуется "воздушный карман"?
          Those. hit in a straight line?
          1. Thronekeeper
            Thronekeeper 25 October 2015 14: 12 New
            +3
            Cable guidance. But initially it was uncontrollable. With the expectation that the attacked ship will not have time to evade. It seems that the Iranian copy is uncontrollable, although cable guidance, both off-board and autonomous - the likeness of an acoustic seeker with a coil ejected from a TA along with a torpedo, is not at all a complicated technology.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Throw
              Throw 25 October 2015 18: 28 New
              +8
              There is nowhere to poison the cable from - the Flurry is accelerated by the accelerator, which then shoots back and the hydro-jet engine starts to work.

              In the note, by the way, this is not indicated, as well as the depth of 30 m. In general, there are mistakes in each sentence.

              The air cavity is called a pocket. Good not a suitcase. laughing

              And how much can you copy this picture with some kind of carrot-warhead on the props?
              In half of the articles about Flurry the same thing, http://topwar.ru/29683-novaya-torpeda-na-smenu-shkvalu.html

              Here are the torpedo clippers for maneuvering in the cavity:


              And here is the cavitator creating it:
              1. gridasov
                gridasov 25 October 2015 19: 08 New
                -1
                Without a doubt, this is the right decision in a small part of the fact that there should be a hole in the end of the torpedo and cavitator. But it is worth noting that on the previous samples the solution was different.
            3. The comment was deleted.
          2. nemets
            nemets 25 October 2015 20: 40 New
            +1
            да она идет только по прямой ,это ее единственный минус.правда минус небольшой если расстояние до противника менее 7-8 км поражение или повреждение гарантировано.если же расстояние больше то выстрел будет в "молоко".
          3. sodick
            sodick 26 October 2015 09: 12 New
            0
            YES, ONLY DIRECT, TK IN DOMESTIC RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS SIT ONE. THERE DO NOT EVEN A HEARNESS, IT SHALL PUNCH THROUGH AT SUCH A SPEED
        2. just exp
          just exp 25 October 2015 10: 54 New
          13
          не совсем так , то что обеспечивает торпеде высокую скорость к хим реакции отношения не имеет , так как сопротивление воды угробит любой реактивный двигатель ,точнее его работу . тут трабла в физическом процессе называемом кавитация (по крайней мере так в статьях и фильмах о шквале преподносили), если упрощенно , то это когда спереди , на наконечнике торпеды образуется воздушная подушка , в которой и движется торпеда , и сопротивление "воды" становится как на "воздухе" , но главная проблема в том что из за этой воздущной прослойки невозможно применить самонаведение , прослойка глушит все . сейчас работают над этим . но получится или нет хз хз хз .
        3. adept666
          adept666 25 October 2015 11: 24 New
          +6
          Here you went over! Powerful it all depends on the warhead, but smart is unlikely. She moves with uncontrollable speed.
          Ох уж этот пан gridasov... Что значит с неуправляемой скоростью? У этой торпеды прямоточный гидрореактивный двигатель, при желании его точно так же можно дросселировать как и обычный ракетный двигатель, только ещё в более широком диапазоне. Вы же изучали химию и прекрасно знаете, что чем меньше по массовой доле прореагирует химически активных веществ, тем меньше выделится энергии. Те самые ваши химические реакции достигнуты взаимодействием реагента и обычной забортной воды. Подайте меньше воды в камору, получите меньшую "тягу", приоткроете заслонку - получите больше. Другое дело, что в данной конкретной торпеде делать двигатель допускающий дросселирование нет смысла из-за других ограничений, а именно по системе наведения, обычное телеуправление по проводу из-за конструктивных ограничений и скорости невозможно, гидролокатор на неё не поставишь во-первых из-за каветатора на носу реактивной торпеды(да из-за размера), а во-вторых из-за шума от двигателя ни хрена не услышишь, а РЛС под водой почти не робит. Поэтому дросселирования нет так как надо по прямой выйти и как можно раньше в расчётную точку с целью.
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 25 October 2015 12: 34 New
            +1
            Все не так просто ! Массив хим реагента вступает во взаимодействие с активатором -т.е водой лавинообразно и не лукавьте сами себе -дросселированию не поддается. То что называется "каветатором" это опять самообман это банальные сопла выводящие продукты хим реакции в переднюю часть дабы создать оболочку. Поэтому мы и говорим о такой турбине , у которой даже нет передней головки вызывающе сопротивление. Напорный поток только увеличивает эффективность работы турбины. А вот выходные сопла и образуют не воздушную оболочку а слои более высокодинамичных струи потоков. Более того управляемых потоков. Поэтому если кто -либо понимает , что суть кавитации это массив плазменных эффектов вокруг каждой микрочастички воды, то нашим методом мы исключаем эти процессы и они не мешают ни тишине плавания , ни радиоуправляемости , и при этом скорости останутся сверхвысокими и более, поскольку динамические потоки струи потоков истечения будут на порядки более высокоэнергетичными чем от химических реакций.
            1. adept666
              adept666 25 October 2015 17: 34 New
              +1
              It is not that simple !
              After these words, your not-so-healthy fantasies usually begin.
              An array of a chemical reagent interacts with an activator, i.e. avalanche like water
              And here they are laughing
              do not dissemble yourself - it is not throttling.
              Yes, and why? Is the sine wave of the wrong system? laughing
              То что называется "каветатором" это опять самообман это банальные сопла выводящие продукты хим реакции в переднюю часть дабы создать оболочку.
              I hasten to upset the chemical reaction products that create the main driving force, and the fact that the front is not the so-called, but the most important thing to eat is the cavitator, and behind it there is a gas generator, which when the launch rocket accelerator operates at stages of movement up to 170-190 km / h (boundary speed) from liquefied gas produces gaseous products to create the initial cavity and squeezes them through the front nozzles to the last stage of the cavitator. After entering the cruising mode, the torpedo shoots the accelerator and the movement continues on the marching engine, and the cavity is maintained by natural gas-hydrodynamic processes (super-cavitation), and is not constantly created by the torpedo gas generator.
              Therefore, we are talking about such a turbine, which does not even have a front head defiant resistance.
              This head is a cavitation; otherwise, how would a professor take a torpedo? laughing She just has a water intake there, see a colleague: http://i037.radikal.ru/0908/72/5267e93c395b.jpg wink
              Pressure flow only increases
              I will tell you even more, and only he creates it at a speed of over 200 km / h lol
              Therefore, if anyone understands that the essence of cavitation is an array of plasma effects around each microparticle of water
              I do not agree! Effects are created by the coagulating cosine of the tangent! (God forgive me not to laugh at sick people lol )
              by our method we exclude these processes
              And here is more in detail please what such method?
              will be orders of magnitude higher energy than from chemical reactions.
              good laughing
              1. gridasov
                gridasov 25 October 2015 18: 56 New
                +2
                Your mockery does not catch me much. Therefore, if you think you have created the perfect device, then okay. You can only congratulate.
                In general, it is pleasant to feel like a Russian, but a stranger to the country in which the ancestors were born and lived, to whom he swore and for whom he became an outcast. And Ukraine is no longer the motherland because the ghouls in power made us Russians hostage to their stupidity. In short, everyone pushes to the panel. And so I do not want to sell. Anyway . It will be as it will.
                1. adept666
                  adept666 25 October 2015 19: 57 New
                  +1
                  Your mockery does not catch me much.
                  If this were so, my friend, then you would not have focused on this. Nevertheless, I'm sorry if I offended you, I will try to improve wink
                  Therefore, if you think you have created the perfect device, then okay.
                  Until a perpetual motion machine has been created, a perfect device has not yet been born, when do you already have plans there?
                  In general, it’s nice to feel like a Russian, but a stranger to the country in which the ancestors were born and lived
                  I didn’t quite catch the essence of the problem, to be honest.
                  that the ghouls in power made us Russians hostage to their stupidity.
                  Well, are you so passive and you allowed a bunch of rabid scumbags to destroy your beautiful (now without irony) country? But even in this case I do not see a problem. Pack your suitcase and go in the Russian Federation.
                  And so I do not want to sell.
                  So nobody forces. Come to any design bureau on the subject, but not with your plasmatrons, but with drawings and sound mathematics that can be verified by full-scale experiment (designers only understand the language of numbers, not abstractions) if all that you offer is not fiction to tear off with your hands and it will be your holiday soul. Dare! (And if it doesn’t work out again, start writing science fiction, you have a strong syllable, and the flight of imagination seems to be unlimited). Good luck my friend hi
                  1. gridasov
                    gridasov 25 October 2015 20: 36 New
                    -1
                    I really am not offended. Words remain words and are a manifestation of certain qualities of the one who pronounces them.
                    We are not talking about a perpetual motion machine. I would cease to respect myself for being naive if I thought it was a perpetual motion machine. The idea is to create such a turbine, which should work at ultrahigh conditions not of rotation speed, but of the flow rate of hydro-gas-dynamic flow in it. Then in the hands of man will be tools for managing the potential energy of the substance of the medium. Which is what we ultimately call CAVITATION.
                    We Russians in Ukraine are not passive. May traitors and renegades come out. War is always CLEANER. And those women and children, old people and young people who died as a result of a meaningless massacre and those who went about false leaders, are just an excuse to establish themselves more firmly in the strength of our ideals and traditions and this gives us strength and readiness to do our part in due time work. But going wall to wall is not our method.
                    I do not know how to ask and ask. It is possible to cooperate, but asks, somehow not in my opinion. But thanks anyway for the advice.
                    1. nemets
                      nemets 25 October 2015 20: 44 New
                      0
                      не обращай внимания человек "думает" что он думает,потому и пишет сам не понимая что)
                      1. gridasov
                        gridasov 25 October 2015 21: 02 New
                        -1
                        Действительно ! Уметь думать это еще та задача. Говорить о методике расширенного "думания" - это еще и поиск человека с высокими исходящими параметрами рассуждения.
                      2. adept666
                        adept666 26 October 2015 08: 08 New
                        +1
                        не обращай внимания человек "думает" что он думает,потому и пишет сам не понимая что)
                        Yes, sometimes it’s sometimes I don’t understand ... but what’s characteristic is it often also works correctly sometimes laughing
          2. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 25 October 2015 14: 53 New
            0
            Quote: adept666
            , conventional wire remote control due to design limitations and speed is not possible,

            Why is it impossible, who said that? ATGMs fly with greater speed and are nevertheless driven by a wire.
            1. adept666
              adept666 25 October 2015 17: 45 New
              0
              Why is it impossible, who said that?
              Well, let's say I say that.
              ATGMs fly with greater speed and are nevertheless driven by a wire.
              They fly a little in the wrong environment (moreover, this is the same medium), but in the case of the Flurry there are two of them and a serious pressure drop between them. Have you ever seen how at the installation site of a thermocouple in a high pressure pipeline it cuts it due to a defect or incorrect operation? If not, I'll tell you aki with a Jedi laser sword and a couple more meters of metalwork in addition laughing what kind of wires are there ...
            2. nemets
              nemets 25 October 2015 20: 44 New
              0
              not by wire but by radio
              1. adept666
                adept666 26 October 2015 05: 59 New
                +2
                not by wire but by radio

                With the propagation of radio waves in water, there are mildly slight difficulties. wink
        4. Homo
          Homo 25 October 2015 12: 43 New
          +1
          Quote: gridasov
          Here you went over! Powerful it all depends on the warhead, but smart is unlikely. She moves with uncontrollable speed. High speeds achieved with the help of chemical reactions, which then create the draft of the exhaust gases, are generally not controlled. Therefore, until an engine is created capable of creating such speeds and on a controlled function specified by the operator, it is premature to speak of a smart torpedo. In addition, the so-called. fuel does not stock up on a long range.

          А чего это Вы мелочитесь? Говорите сразу, пока не будет силового поля и гиперпространственного двигателя о "умности" говорить не стоит! am
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 25 October 2015 12: 50 New
            +2
            A hyperspace engine is a complete abstraction. But a turbine with fundamentally new sequences of processes in it and which are able to transform the potential energy of a hydro-gas-dynamic flow is a reality.
        5. meriem1
          meriem1 25 October 2015 13: 22 New
          -6
          Quote: gridasov
          Here you went over! Powerful it all depends on the warhead, but smart is unlikely. She moves with uncontrollable speed. High speeds achieved with the help of chemical reactions, which then create the draft of the exhaust gases, are generally not controlled. Therefore, until an engine is created capable of creating such speeds and on a controlled function specified by the operator, it is premature to speak of a smart torpedo. In addition, the so-called. fuel does not stock up on a long range.


          Yes, and this is enough !!! Something On the fleet of Ukraine there is nothing even similar !!! Envy modestly !!!
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 25 October 2015 13: 30 New
            +3
            Maybe you advise me to deal with the Americans?
        6. evge-malyshev
          evge-malyshev 25 October 2015 14: 34 New
          0
          Quote: gridasov
          Therefore, until a propulsion system is created capable of creating such speeds at controlled function specified by the operator It’s premature to talk about a smart torpedo


          1. Что такое "управляемая функция, заданная оператором"?
          2. 463 pounds - approximately 100 kg and a speed of 200 knots under water - are impressive.
          3. Авторы отмечают также, что ракета «сохраняет высокий уровень вероятности поражения цели (80%) на расстоянии до 7 км». Думаю, что это опечатка. В противном случае она не может быть отнесена к категории "одной из лучших в мире".
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 25 October 2015 14: 44 New
            0
            The controlled torpedo movement function specified by the operator is tantamount to controlling an unmanned vehicle. But this is possible only in the complex of the fact that you have a turbine or so-called device that is capable of performing these functions, namely, to slow down or stop, rotate or turn around in all axes of azimuth. I believe it is clear that with chemical propulsion processes this is very difficult to do. But the device we are positioning performs all these tasks.
            Further . Speeds can be much higher. It all depends on the distribution processes of polarization of the surfaces of the outflow with the external environment. However, it is already difficult for people outside competencies to understand this.
            Somehow we are used to being irresponsible in their statements. If everything was clear and mastered, it would have developed, but it did not. Therefore, everything came down to CALIBERS and Dr with propulsion systems, but the mover remained the same.
          2. tolian
            tolian 25 October 2015 18: 57 New
            0
            463 pounds is 180 kg.
        7. evge-malyshev
          evge-malyshev 25 October 2015 14: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: gridasov
          Therefore, until a propulsion system is created capable of creating such speeds at controlled function specified by the operator It’s premature to talk about a smart torpedo


          1. Что такое "управляемая функция, заданная оператором"?
          2. 463 pounds - approximately 100 kg and a speed of 200 knots under water - are impressive.
          3. Авторы отмечают также, что ракета «сохраняет высокий уровень вероятности поражения цели (80%) на расстоянии до 7 км». Думаю, что это опечатка. В противном случае она не может быть отнесена к категории "одной из лучших в мире".
        8. Sterlya
          Sterlya 25 October 2015 18: 27 New
          0
          Quote: gridasov
          Here you went over! Powerful it all depends on the warhead, but smart is unlikely. She moves with uncontrollable speed. High speeds achieved with the help of chemical reactions, which then create the draft of the exhaust gases, are generally not controlled. Therefore, until an engine is created capable of creating such speeds and on a controlled function specified by the operator, it is premature to speak of a smart torpedo. In addition, the so-called. fuel does not stock up on a long range.

          And if you think a little? that seems to be manageable.
          The truth is I do not like it when shit-guns praise what is not really worth it, everything has a measure. At least we have smart people no less than in the United States, who buy brains from around the world for dead condoms.
          BUT it seems to me. Until they publicly start executing embezzlers, there will be no improvement in Russia in the economic sphere!
          And without the Economy, there is no State.
      2. Shveps
        Shveps 25 October 2015 12: 24 New
        0
        Quote: Tor5
        Мощная и "умная" штука!


        In the Soviet Union, others were not made.
      3. Samaritan
        Samaritan 25 October 2015 14: 43 New
        0
        Видео о "шквал"
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 25 October 2015 15: 01 New
          -1
          By the way, the title picture looks completely wrong. At the rear, the aquatic environment closes. And much more is not natural.
    2. Ruslan
      Ruslan 25 October 2015 09: 17 New
      +9
      a flurry-2 should be homing and hit 50-100 km. then the fleet will be able to genocide any enemy pl :)
      1. venaya
        venaya 25 October 2015 09: 43 New
        +8
        Quote: ruslan
        a flurry-2 should be homing and hit 50-100 km.

        At that speed? Range and speed: mutually exclusive things, here you need to choose one thing. Under water, in general, miracles happen, swordfish, sailing fish scamper at speeds up to 130 km / h, with its own power of about 1 l / s - this is a record. Even birds in the air fly slower, up to 110 km / h, if not at the peak. "Flurry» - сама по себе почти "чудо природы", правда чисто искуственного происхождения, в действительности это engineering miracle, о таком и мечтать никогда не приходилось. За счёт кавитации «Шквал» полностью нарушает базовые приципы движения тел в жидкости, определяемые "вечным" Bernoulli's law.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 25 October 2015 10: 19 New
          +2
          Sorry, but cavitation has nothing to do with it. More reasonable may be the argument that the intensity of the exhaust gases from the front of the torpedo body creates a gas shell. Therefore, if the configuration is correctly selected at the rear, then the water compression vector, and it is directed inside the topological space and this vector will push the torpedo forward. Cavitation, in turn, is the process of transformation of the energy structure of matter and not only water. In other words, it is the absence of cavitation on the surface of contact or the outflow of water with the body that allows it to move easily. In general, this is a whole system of knowledge at the electronic level. magnetic interactions of bodies and the medium during their highly dynamic relative motion. It should be said that using cavitation it is also possible to significantly increase this potential to accelerate the movement of bodies without fighting this effect, but strengthening it.
          1. Snake831
            Snake831 25 October 2015 10: 41 New
            +4
            The number of dithyrambs, our weapons, has recently been directly alarming!
          2. demo
            demo 25 October 2015 10: 56 New
            0
            Good comment.
            Prapor really annoying.
          3. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 25 October 2015 11: 58 New
            10
            Гридасов! Вы опять за свое: заумными рассуждениями замыливаете существо дела в надежде, что вашу псевдонаучную хрень никто не сможет снять с ушей форумчан? Ну-ну... "Ученый", давай поумчаем:
            Quote: gridasov
            cavitation has nothing to do with it.
            В ней-то все и дело. Именно она создает паро-газовую каверну, в которой движется тело. Вода не смачивает всю поверхность изделия, а только кавитатор (чашечки в носу ракето-дорпеды), чем многократно снижается сила трения и волнового сопротивления движущемуся в воде телу. Отсюда и скорость "полета" в воздушном пространстве под водой.
            Quote: gridasov
            the intensity of the exhaust gases from the front of the torpedo's body creates a gas shell.
            Вы уже замучили со своим "борбулятором"!Никаких газов навстречу движения Р/Т не выбрасывается!Не нужен нам "реактивный тормоз"! Чашечки кавитатора за счет скорости выбивают растворенный в воде воздух, чем и создается парогазовая каверна.
            Quote: gridasov
            Therefore, if the configuration is correct in the back, then the water compression vector, and it is directed inside the topological space and this vector will push the torpedo forward
            Впечатление такое, что с реактивным движением вы вообще не знакомы! Вектор, говоришь!Сжатия воды, говоришь!А я наивно полагал, что скорость и масса истекаемых газов...А оказывается "ВЕКТОР"!(Гектор? Виктор?-- кто там еще может быть?)
            Quote: gridasov
            Cavitation, in turn, is the process of transformation of the energy structure of matter and not only water.
            Cavitation is the process of vaporization and subsequent condensation of air bubbles in a fluid flow, accompanied by noise and hydraulic shocks, the formation of cavities in a fluid filled with vapor of the fluid itself ... Simple and intelligible. Why be clever?
            Quote: gridasov
            In other words, it is the absence of cavitation on the surface of contact or the outflow of water with the body that allows it to move easily.
            В точности до "наоборот"!Чашечки -- часть корпуса Р/Т. Именно они создают парогазовую каверну --условие "несмачиваемого" движения корпуса в газовой среде.
            Об остальном "околонаучном умствовании" -- yes I will keep silent, as if not related to the product VA-111. lol
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 25 October 2015 12: 46 New
              -1
              Ну во -первых я никого не мучаю . А во -вторых "только за ширмой блаженного можно оставаться чистым в своих рассуждениях и поиске истины ". Ну а поиск истины это уже кто какой выберет путь. Главное результат, а если этот результат появиться вдруг у врага, а Вы за своей нетерпимостью прозеваете , что были в шаге от разумного решения , Тогда кто враг -я потому , что мучаю . Или Вы -потому , что пренебрегли тем , что не способны были оценить.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Throw
                  Throw 25 October 2015 19: 01 New
                  +2
                  I agree, it’s sad when Gridasov, with his alternative physics, the orderlies turn off the Internet again and we have to sadly use the boring dogmas of the orthodox sciences .. laughing

                  Nevertheless, in a discussion with the Boa constrictor. Gridasov suddenly hit the spot:

                  Boa kaa
                  Quote: gridasov
                  the intensity of the exhaust gases from the front of the torpedo's body creates a gas shell.

                  Вы уже замучили со своим "борбулятором"!Никаких газов навстречу движения Р/Т не выбрасывается!

                  In Shkval, behind the cavitator, there really is, no, not quite a burbulator, but almost)) gas generator, which additionally pumps gas into the cavity, maintaining its stability and increasing size.

                  hi
                  1. gridasov
                    gridasov 25 October 2015 19: 15 New
                    +1
                    Excuse me, but I do not get guessing. I have full-cycle algorithms in the sequence that must be observed, but the creators of SQUALL experiment and experiment without a theoretical basis. In addition, I do not consider myself an alternative physics. On the contrary, modern physics and academic knowledge need to be deepened, but with some adjustments. On top of that, I always welcome well-grounded arguments and don't be ashamed to repent if I'm wrong.
                    1. adept666
                      adept666 25 October 2015 20: 05 New
                      +2
                      I have full-cycle algorithms in the sequence that must be followed.
                      Yes, the Nobel Prize is crying for you.
                      but the creators of SQUARE are experimenting and experimenting without a theoretical basis.
                      Alas in the discipline, the dynamics of liquid and gas without full-scale experimentation is nowhere.
                      In addition, I do not consider myself an alternative physics.
                      In vain, believe the person who completed the physical education smile
                      On the contrary, modern physics and academic knowledge need to be deepened, but with some adjustments.
                      I agree!
                      On top of that, I always welcome well-grounded arguments and don't be ashamed to repent if I'm wrong.
                      Oh ...
                    2. Throw
                      Throw 25 October 2015 20: 34 New
                      0
                      Of course, the theoretical base is needed only to launch the air defense igilogandons with explosives, and our shatan pipe rivets the shaitan pipe that whistles under 400 km / h under water wassat
                      А про "углубления с корректировками" -это правильно. Ждем от Вас углубления кавитационных каверн и корректировки постоянной Планка и числа Пи! Или Е! bully
                      1. Bayun
                        Bayun 25 October 2015 22: 55 New
                        -2
                        Не смешно. Соотнося количественно ПРЯМОЕ и КРУГЛОЕ(Пи) мы, мягко говоря, "забываем" для удобства матмодели об их качественно различной природе. То что запретно для физика("измерять груши яблоками") - разрешено математику;) Граница сред, да еще с активным воздействием - реально сложная штука. Может, человек действительно формализовал - взяли бы КОМУ НАДО, и проверили.
                      2. gridasov
                        gridasov 25 October 2015 23: 15 New
                        -1
                        Moreover, I do not deny that the mathematics used to analyze low-potential processes, namely, that it is and it can still be called calculated, but it is absolutely not suitable for the analysis of high-potential processes. And this mathematics can be called analytical, when absolute accuracy in the statement is required, and most importantly, you need to see all the flow algorithms of the associated processes, which means that you always see the multivariance of the development of a particular situation. I would say - dispositions of a mathematical situation. You are one of not many who noted the difference in the nature of the analysis of processes associated not only with geometry and number, but also with numerical flows that determine the dimensionality in the parameters of the numerator and denominator. But these are fundamental principles for the analysis of the entire topological local space. And even more so in its dynamic state of transformation not only laminar, but also turbulent and higher energy transformations. That is, you can talk about something that previously it was not even conceivable to even reason. And that is not for everyone.
                      3. gridasov
                        gridasov 25 October 2015 23: 18 New
                        0
                        The only catch. There is no one to check me. This can be explained only by myself.
                      4. The comment was deleted.
                      5. gridasov
                        gridasov 25 October 2015 23: 48 New
                        0
                        Well done! Good little insert! And that’s all you can say.
                      6. Throw
                        Throw 26 October 2015 02: 46 New
                        +1

                        Bayun
                        Не смешно. Соотнося количественно ПРЯМОЕ и КРУГЛОЕ (Пи) мы, мягко говоря, "забываем" для удобства матмодели об их качественно различной природе. То что запретно для физика("измерять груши яблоками") - разрешено математику;) Граница сред, да еще с активным воздействием - реально сложная штука. Может, человек действительно формализовал - взяли бы КОМУ НАДО, и проверили.

                        Bayun, one nature can even be COLD and HAIRY.
                        If it's a dead hair laughing

                        Что касается соотношения числом Пи "круглого и прямого", то там соотносятся ДЛИННА окружности и отрезка прямой. Которые вообще никакой природы не имеют, поскольку являются аксиоматичными абстракциями.

                        It may break your perception matrix, but the straight line is the circle.
                        Infinite radius.
                        wink

                        And if something, WHO needs to be checked, so take it and study the works of Gridasov and formalize the material for anyone to check.
                        Formulas.
                      7. gridasov
                        gridasov 26 October 2015 10: 49 New
                        0
                        You are absolutely right that the line, only it is not of infinite radius, but always of fixed dimension and not of infinite radius, but of a radius depending on the potential on the surface of contact with a new topological space of the same nature. Therefore, a wildlife cell or a drop of water divides. But!!! And the circle is always a process that can be measured by the dimensionality of straight line segments of always exact size. However, you are talking only about particularities, and transformation algorithms can be measured and determined at any point not in a circle, but in a sphere or any other configuration of the system right up to its transformation into new ones. So blow up your brain!
              2. Izotovp
                Izotovp 25 October 2015 23: 46 New
                0
                I would add to this also the pulsations of flows and the dimensionality of time of processes hi
                Yours faithfully !! smile
              3. gridasov
                gridasov 25 October 2015 23: 54 New
                0
                Well, there are no other words and terms to describe the depth of the processes. And I repent. So I am trying to describe the whole content with at least those words that are known. But in general, do you know how people who can know a lot communicate? They give only the direction of reasoning. And then everyone does everything himself.
              4. Izotovp
                Izotovp 26 October 2015 00: 17 New
                +1
                Further, there may be discrepancies in understanding the essence of the ongoing processes and the loss of the thread of communication (((.
                By the way, even at school I received an interesting result of manipulation with the gravitational constant: the dimensionality of our space turned out to be M3 / C2. That is, our space is equally accelerated by definition and this cannot be ignored. I thought a lot ... I didn’t have enough education ... and now I don’t remember the chain of transformations, but because of the lack of need for ordinary life, the latest knowledge of mathematics fell off, so I don’t always quickly get into your thoughts.
              5. gridasov
                gridasov 26 October 2015 01: 01 New
                0
                Мы ведем разговоры о весьма важных явлениях . Поэтому нужна не просто уверенность в том о чем говоришь , а необходим комплекс качеств , которые выражаются в высокой ответственности за каждое произнесенное слово. Нужна терпимость и толерантность к любой позиции, которую выражают оппоненты. Жизнь превращается в исследовательский процесс в первую очередь собственных способностей , а только потом в понимании сути человеческого мышления. В свое время я желал похоронить свои рассуждения в собственном сознании. Но нечто все время меня обязывает очень аккуратно и спокойно делится знаниями. При этом не разбрасываясь ими направо и налево и не корысти ради. Не зря говорится , что "умного человека всегда много ". При этом нельзя себя переоценивать , но и не позволительна недооценка. Поэтому нужно, прежде всего, оставаться самим собой и быть искренним и ответственным , а главное не лукавить опять -таки самому себе. И все придет в свое время. Человеческая жизнь не только дарована нам , но это и важная доверенная нам работа , которую нужно выполнять. Но, это еще и обязанность от которой нельзя отказаться. Ученый должен быть одновременно и верующим . Верующим в разумность и обоснованность сути всего происходящего . Тогда он может соприкоснуться с глубиной понимания того , что в этом мире всему и вся определено свое место и значение . Всему определено время и путь. Путь в последовательности происходящих событий и к той цели , которая определена в помыслах и деяниях наших мирских.
              6. Throw
                Throw 26 October 2015 02: 11 New
                +2
                Izotovp
                even at school I received an interesting result of manipulation with the gravitational constant: the dimensionality of our space turned out to be M3 / C2. That is, our space is equally accelerated by definition

                I consider it necessary to add that as a result of such school experiments we discovered in the metric М3 / С2 the next and main part of the denominator С2. This is N5ON, which is a tensor of isotropic spatial acceleration.
                And as you correctly noted, when the value of the operator M is equal to 3 (i.e., somewhere on the third), a complete gravitational convolution of the space tensor in time occurs ...
              7. adept666
                adept666 26 October 2015 08: 34 New
                +2
                smile what interesting experiments you had ... I'm afraid to suggest how far you went in the study of universes of pathogenic N-dimensions ...
              8. Izotovp
                Izotovp 26 October 2015 09: 17 New
                +1
                This part of the denominator was actively used in the knowledge of the world a little later, at the Academy laughing
              9. Throw
                Throw 26 October 2015 15: 29 New
                0
                So a little later, at Univer, it was applied even more actively, and, most importantly, more creatively, in combinations, and even in the study of universes went far into the most unexpected dimensions, but N-dimensions really liked repeat
  • adept666
    adept666 25 October 2015 19: 45 New
    0
    In Shkval, behind the cavitator, there really is, no, not quite a burbulator, but almost))
    it doesn’t work all the time (you won’t get any gas smile ), I already wrote about this in the comments here.
    1. Throw
      Throw 25 October 2015 22: 54 New
      0
      The question is that there is still a bulbator and accelerates forward)

      But I won’t say anything about the operating time, but I think that the TTU will accelerate the torpedo without a bulb, kick it off in 4 seconds, as stated, but on the march the gas generator turns on.
      А "напастись" газа на 2 минуты хода- несложно.
      1. adept666
        adept666 26 October 2015 06: 07 New
        +1
        But I won’t say anything about the operating time, but I think that TTU will accelerate the torpedo without a bullet with a kick,
        It will accelerate, but the question is structural strength, and not the possibility of acceleration, until the object in the cavity, its tail collapsing completely cuts off a piece of it, so at the stage of dispersal, a cavity is created specifically for transient cavitation-supercavitation modes.
        А "напастись" газа на 2 минуты хода- несложно.
        There, the consumption is quite serious, and the torpedo is not very large, so there is really enough gas for 30 seconds.
      2. Throw
        Throw 26 October 2015 18: 58 New
        0
        Then it is unclear why gas for 30 seconds, when enough 5?

        And why the closing cavity of the torpedo tail will cut off ?? This is not a cutting torch with an abrasive, where the jet speed is about 1000m / s. And the Flurry is not cardboard, I felt it with my hands - the piece of iron is still there. Clippers control, again, does not cut ...
      3. adept666
        adept666 26 October 2015 21: 53 New
        0
        Then it is unclear why gas for 30 seconds, when enough 5?
        Because creating a stable cavern at a depth of 1 m and 30 m is two very different things; moreover, creating a cavern at a depth of 5 m in the Black Sea does not equal creating a cavern at a depth of 5 m in the Okhotsk (water density is different). Even after reaching supercavitation, the cavity is still not stable, it is subject to vortex pulsations (turbulence) of the flow, especially in the tail part (it takes time to stabilize).
        And why the closing cavity of the torpedo tail will cut off ??
        Well, good: breaks structural integrity and collapses under the influence of various forces
        And the Flurry is not cardboard, I felt it with my hands - the piece of iron is still there.
        he cannot be different, otherwise he will add up as a accordion smile But only a transverse hydroblow of such strength, alas, he will not stand it.
        Clippers control, again, does not cut ...
        firstly they are solid, and not hollow like a torpedo, and secondly they do not resist the flow, but are built into it.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • adept666
    adept666 25 October 2015 18: 17 New
    0
    Вы уже замучили со своим "борбулятором"!Никаких газов навстречу движения Р/Т не выбрасывается!Не нужен нам "реактивный тормоз"! Чашечки кавитатора за счет скорости выбивают растворенный в воде воздух, чем и создается парогазовая каверна.
    In fact, during the operation of the starting engine, gas is released (only this is not the gas that the flu says, but the liquefied gas passed through the gas generator), and then, when the speed allows, the cavity is maintained exclusively due to the speed. Nozzles are clearly visible here http://static.laodong.com.vn/uploaded/phamthuhien/2014_11_19/d%20(14)_fawd.jpg Otherwise I agree hi
  • adept666
    adept666 25 October 2015 17: 54 New
    +2
    Cavitation, in turn, is the process of transformation of the energy structure of matter and not only water.
    Campaign potion ...
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 25 October 2015 19: 27 New
      0
      Вообще-то я задаюсь вопросом , что может я все-таки не последний , когда обосновываю процессы с позитивным использованием кавитации в турбине. Ведь кавитационные процессы бывают поверхностными , но можно их организовать во всей полноте того объема . которые проходит через сопло. Тогда в тот момент когда происходит схлопывание такого совокупного объема воды происходит взрыв . И именно эта часть процесса используется дополнительно в так наз "бурбуляторе", а по моему новой турбине.
      1. adept666
        adept666 25 October 2015 20: 18 New
        0
        Actually, I ask myself, maybe I’m not the last one when I justify processes with the positive use of cavitation in a turbine.
        Um, the product discussed in this article is just an example of such a positive use, isn’t it?
        "бурбуляторе"
        Do not look for a black cat in a dark room, it is not there smile I already wrote to you what the device stands for and how it works, a cylinder with liquefied gas, a gas generator, nozzles on a cavitator. During acceleration, since it starts it can be said brutally (starting speed under 90 km / h), so that the torpedo does not collapse like a concrete wall (and a full-fledged cavity at this speed cannot be created because the phenomenon is just beginning to nucleate) an artificially created gas generator is used, up to transition mode until the phenomenon becomes stably self-reproducing (by natural physical laws) due to the high speed, then it turns off (or rather, the gas ends, therefore it is impossible to slow down as in ramjet, the bubble will collapse and destroy the product, and even if it does not destroy the product will not be able to reach the previous speed).
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 25 October 2015 20: 57 New
          0
          Either I misunderstand something or you are not sincere. Then let's fantasize. I would take a well-known medically dispersed substance produced again known in not many ways and put it in a hopper. this substance interacting with seawater creates excess pressure produced by the chemical. gas reaction. This gas is directed to the front rather than the rear of the torpedo hull, not against the pressure stream of water. and through the nozzles in the opposite direction from the movement. This gas creates a cavity in the mass of the moving medium. . Marching engine creates an additional jet waste mass. Everything is simple and clear. By the way, the latest torpedo models show upgraded cavitators. That is, the pressure flow in the injection method coincides with the gas flow from the bunker-reactor. I think fantasies are not very different from realities. In this case, I do not understand what kind of gas cylinders you are talking about.
          1. adept666
            adept666 26 October 2015 08: 02 New
            +1
            Or I misunderstand something
            It seems that we do not understand each other because we are talking about different things, I comment on the design of the product, which is discussed in the article, and you about possible new designs. So or not?
            This gas is directed to the front rather than the rear of the torpedo hull, not against the pressure stream of water. and through the nozzles in the opposite direction from the movement.
            Too large specific impulse, no structural material known today can withstand such a flow turn in the nozzle.
            This gas creates a cavity in the mass of the moving medium.
            And itself is the main driving force, which is very tempting, the idea is undoubtedly interesting, but to realize this it is not possible to achieve huge values ​​of temperature and pressure will be an insurmountable obstacle.
            By the way, the latest torpedo models show upgraded cavitators.
            This is a banal modernization, but not an innovation.
            I think fantasies are not very different from realities.
            I think it’s different smile
            In this case, I do not understand what kind of gas cylinders you are talking about.
            Ordinary liquefied inert gas or oxygen, the cylinder stands behind the control unit in the same place as the gas generator in the bow of the reactive torpedo. The operation of the main engine and the creation of the initial cavity are in no way interconnected except by synchronization of the operation mode, i.e. these are two separate devices: the first is water / reagent, the second is liquefied gas / gas generator.
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 26 October 2015 12: 04 New
              0
              There are no prerequisites that it is generally worth using high-strength structural materials.
              Secondly, correctly set outflow from nozzles will create all transient speeds. That is, the main engine itself is not necessary to set. This simplifies the design. Makes it soundly. Lets make manageable. And its cost is reduced.
              The installation of our turbine completely eliminates the chemical process and creates a combination of positive parameters.
              1. adept666
                adept666 26 October 2015 12: 47 New
                0
                There are no prerequisites that it is generally worth using high-strength structural materials.
                Seriously? And what do we put? Paper, wax, eggshell? Forgive me, I promised not to be ironic, but here I can’t just resist. I have a question for you, have you done anything apart from theory in your life?
                Secondly, correctly set outflow from nozzles will create all transient speeds.
                And do you take into account the temperature of the gases of this outflow? Where will the heat be removed from the body walls of the product in contact with them?
                That is, the main engine itself is not necessary to set. This simplifies the design.
                It simplifies in theory, but in practice is not feasible, or with such costs that you will cry ...
                Makes it soundly.
                What is this conclusion based on?
                Lets make manageable.
                Yeah, what will you create a direction vector for? Any slightest turn and your torpedo itself is the cavern of that same cartilage slice and chop off somewhere in the tail laughing
                And its cost is reduced.
                With such structural difficulties, it will be California smile
                The installation of our turbine completely eliminates the chemical process and creates a combination of positive parameters.
                A couple of clarifications: 1 whose is yours? (Does the group work for you or is it about yourself in a respectful tone) 2: does your turbine in metal exist / drawings / thoughts?
              2. gridasov
                gridasov 26 October 2015 13: 03 New
                0
                У меня сегодня нет времени . Поэтому извиняюсь. Отвечу только на часть вопроса. Поскольку я рассматриваю взаимодействие гидро газодинамического потока с поверхностью материала на уровне магнитных силовых взаимодействий ,то по моему анализу необходимы намагничивающиеся материалы . Т.е банальное легированное железо. А уже форма поверхности истечения формирует усиление или понижение ионизационных или намагничивающих процессов , что приводит к эффектам сверхтекучести и д.р. Это позволяет манипулировать магнитными силовыми потоками и потенциалом вызывающим так наз. давление и температуру. На этих принципах и сама турбина построена . Добавлю , что и температура и давление это все градиенты магнитных силовых взаимодействий. Поэтому в анализе высокопотенциальных процессов от них придется избавится и "играться" с магнитными потоками
              3. adept666
                adept666 26 October 2015 17: 30 New
                0
                Поэтому в анализе высокопотенциальных процессов от них придется избавится и "играться" с магнитными потоками
                This is all wonderful, but the question arises of how we will do this?
              4. gridasov
                gridasov 26 October 2015 18: 07 New
                0
                You do not read all posts. Especially mine. I often talk about an analysis methodology built not on a variable function of a number, but on a constant function of a number, i.e. building an analysis system not on computational processes with numbers, but on distribution ones. In other words, the construction of an analysis system that allows you to take into account all the multivariance of associated processes. In general, if I start to tell, but I’ll hear enough from you.
          2. gridasov
            gridasov 26 October 2015 13: 19 New
            0
            Slightly freed. I will give an example. If you put such our turbine in front of the aircraft. In front of the wing. That aircraft does not need to be dispersed in order to obtain lift on the wing. The same on underwater vehicles, the propulsion in the front creates a whole range of advantages over the rear propeller. Firstly, the cavitation zone is used in the closed part of the turbine as a stage of the reactor and all cavitation noises are controlled. Secondly, modern turbines and high-energy devices have been developing for a very long time because each stage of the process and part are adjusted during the experiment. Calculation of our turbine is made only by two or three parameters. And most importantly, the radius. That is, having a radius and statistics, all other energy levels of turbines at other scales are built very easily. All construction and calculation is carried out as a harmonious extension of the calculation and drawing. A working sample of the turbine is, by the way, in Russia. But this is a laboratory layout, and with a shortage of funds, the development process is slow and at the expense of its own capabilities. Since I can’t always be, I don’t fully open myself to other people. They themselves are not very proactive. But something is being done. In general, everything is obvious and without illusions.
          3. adept666
            adept666 26 October 2015 17: 34 New
            0
            A working sample of the turbine is, by the way, in Russia.
            Intrigued straight.
            But this is a laboratory layout, and with a shortage of funds, the development process is slow and at the expense of its own capabilities.
            If it’s no secret, what kind of group of designers in the Russian Federation works on this topic?
          4. gridasov
            gridasov 26 October 2015 18: 25 New
            0
            Who is a dreamer is you. Where did I pronounce -group? I am an artist-designer with engineering skills. And then we do not deal with torpedoes, but developed the fundamental principles for the operation of the turbine on new algorithms in it processes. Those who wish to join are already enough to represent the problem. Everyone wants to sit on their tail and do nothing at the same time. By the way, most want to resell abroad. Therefore, while fighting off. Yes, you yourself can’t imagine that we are reasonably arguing for ideas and already a technology on the basis of which you can create and will create aviation and all other types of turbines. This is not the turbine itself. These are new approaches to analysis and technology and production and use. And believe me, for decades I feel inside me who and where in the world is following a similar path. BUT alas!
          5. adept666
            adept666 27 October 2015 05: 59 New
            0
            Where did I pronounce -group? I am an artist-designer with engineering skills.
            2 people are already a group.
            on new algorithms in her processes
            the power of this phrase my brain, alas, cannot digest smile
            Yes, you yourself can’t imagine that we are reasonably arguing for ideas and the technology on the basis of which you can create and will create aviation and all other types of turbines. This is not the turbine itself.
            You know, I heard this many times, but the reality turned out to be more commonplace, let me remain a skeptic in this matter smile
          6. gridasov
            gridasov 27 October 2015 11: 12 New
            0
            С Вами нельзя не согласиться , что вокруг масса не продуманных до глубины идей и рассуждений. Однако и в "стоге сена есть иголочка",которую мы ищем. Поэтому я вполне осознанно воспринимаю тот процесс, что мы русские тушим пожар , когда он уже" разошелся до немогу". Как про анекдот , что главное в любом анекдоте -это его своевременность произнесения. Так и у нас.
          7. adept666
            adept666 27 October 2015 14: 28 New
            0
            Однако и в "стоге сена есть иголочка",которую мы ищем.
            Well, what quite sincerely I want to wish you good luck in this difficult matter.
            As about the joke, the main thing in any joke is its timeliness of utterance. So it is with us.
            The main thing is that the sense of humor did not leave you, otherwise I began to experience some pessimistic notes in this thread in your comments that are noticeable, which was not the case before.
          8. gridasov
            gridasov 27 October 2015 15: 12 New
            0
            Everything is fine! We need to work and continue to move on. You also have success.
  • scorpiosys
    scorpiosys 25 October 2015 18: 00 New
    0
    Скорость движения "воздушного пузыря" в воде тоже не безгранична. Возможно она где-то в районе 380 км/ч при данных его размерах и есть.
  • dauria
    dauria 25 October 2015 10: 36 New
    +2
    Range and speed: mutually exclusive things, here you need to choose one thing.


    Well, Yuri Gagarin immediately flew and faster than anyone and farthest. wink Конечно, согласен с Вами- «Шквал» - сама по себе почти "чудо природы". Идея использовать всегда "вредную" кавитацию- шедевр наших изобретателей. И даже если ценность как оружия сомнительна , всё равно мы останемся первыми .
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 25 October 2015 11: 18 New
    +1
    Quote: venaya
    Range and speed: mutually exclusive things, here you need to choose one thing.
    Well, why! You have probably heard about dual-mode torpedoes that have marching (50-60uz) and search (30-40uz) speed. For example, the Amer’s Mk-48 is dual-mode, with approximately such parameters for underwater travel.
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 25 October 2015 13: 00 New
      0
      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
      having marching (50-60uz) and search (30-40uz) speed. For example, the Amer’s Mk-48 is dual-mode, with approximately such parameters for underwater travel.

      MK-48 at a maximum range of 30 minutes. And I doubt that she does this absolutely silently. Even at 30 knots a torpedo will be easy to spot.
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 25 October 2015 13: 25 New
    +2
    Quote: ruslan
    a flurry-2 should be homing and hit 50-100 km.
    I am afraid that this is in principle impossible at the current level of development of science and technology. At least not a g / a way to detect a target. Air wall, own free flow noise ...
    Where is the way out? Вынести Р/Т из воды в воздух, преодолеть (быстро -- скорость 2М!) расстояние до цели, приводниться в районе цели и атаковать ее самонаводящимся снарядом! Для этого наши ПЛ вооружаются комплексом "Водопад" с ПЛУР 91Р.
    General principle of action. After entering the firing data into the onboard SU (EDC, if any, received from the Institute, if not, then P-D + estimated N course of the submarine) Next, the 91P district is fired at the VIC zone (detecting enemy submarines). As a means of hitting a missile, the 91P carries a homing small-sized torpedo of the UMGT, belonging to the 3rd generation PLURO. It provides independent search and detection of submarines in a silent mode, high-speed rapprochement with it and defeat before it begins to perform evasion and counteraction maneuvers.
    Баллистическая ракета 91Р класса "ПЛ-ПЛ" запускается в зону обнаружения цели из ТАТА калибра 533мм с глубины от 20 до 150 м при скорости хода до 15 уз. (Д стрельбы с Н=20-50 м составляет 5-50 км, а при пуске с глубины 150 м -- 5-35 км. В залпе может быть до 4-х ракет. Время предстартовой подготовки -- 10 с).
    The solid propellant rocket motor of the 1st stage of the PLUR 91P provides its movement on the underwater section of the trajectory, out of the water and climb. Then there is the separation of the solid propellant rocket engine, and the second stage flies into the target zone. When flying in an air section of the trajectory, the onboard inertial control system ensures stabilization and guidance of the rocket at a given aiming point. Anti-submarine torpedo (UMGT-2) is parachuted. (This is a universal small-sized torpedo, has an acoustic active-passive homing system, the radius of response through the active channel is 1 m. The energy source is a silver-magnesium battery activated by sea water. Caliber - 1500 mm. V max. - 400 knots.)
    Next is the search for submarines in a diverging spiral, its capture and destruction.
    In the photo the PLUR exits from under the water.
  • kepmor
    kepmor 25 October 2015 12: 16 New
    +1
    А что собственно будет? Вы поговорите с флотскими спецами на эту тему. Думаю,что десятиминутная матерная тирада из их уст резко остудит ваш "урапатриотический" порыв!
  • oberon 1
    oberon 1 25 October 2015 12: 41 New
    0
    We had a lot of really embodied technologies that nobody had !!
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 25 October 2015 12: 58 New
      0
      Still, the range would have been 50 kilometers and would have been controlled at similar speeds and there would have been no price.
  • Hubun
    Hubun 25 October 2015 09: 12 New
    0
    impressive features
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 25 October 2015 09: 35 New
      +6
      I read about this development for a long time ... Really?
      1. gjv
        gjv 25 October 2015 09: 56 New
        +6
        Quote: MIKHAN
        I read about this development for a long time ... Really?



        Torpedo M-5 complex VA-111 "Flurry"


        Quote: Anton Gavrilov
        She has a ridiculous range and depth of travel.

        TTX “Flurry”
        Caliber - 533,4 mm
        Length - 8 meters
        Torpedo weight - 2700 kg
        Warhead power - 150 kt in the nuclear version, or 210 kg of conventional explosives
        Marching speed - 375 km / h
        The range is about 7 km, up to 13 km (new version). The old version is 2 km.
        Engine - ramjet engine

        TTX "Shkval-E"
        Caliber, mm - 533,4
        Length, mm - 8200
        Weight, kg - 2700
        Range, km - to 10
        Speed ​​on the march, m / s - 90-100
        The angle after a volley reversal, degrees - ± 20
        Depth of stroke on the march, m - 6
        Type of warhead - high explosive
        Mass of warhead (TNT equivalent), kg - not less than 210
        Type of launch - surface or underwater
        Underwater launch depth, m - up to 30
        Direct-flow hydraulic jet engine

        Disadvantages
        Due to the enormous speed (200 knots), the torpedo produces a lot of noise and vibration, which unmasks the submarine.
        The short launch range (only 13 km) unmasks the submarine, which negatively affects survivability.
        The maximum depth of the course (up to 30 m) does not allow hitting submarines at great depths.
        The specific impulse of a ramjet engine is 2,5-3 times higher than that of known rocket engines, which can cause damage to the sonar of the submarine, in addition, the bow of the torpedo does not allow the homing head to be installed on it - outboard water flows through the bow.
        Low probability of hitting a target with a conventional warhead and without a seeker.
        1. MIKHAN
          MIKHAN 25 October 2015 10: 28 New
          +1
          Thank ! They did it all ... And this is just the beginning!
      2. user1212
        user1212 25 October 2015 11: 13 New
        +7
        Quote: MIKHAN
        I read about this development for a long time ... Really?

        В каком смысле "неужели получилось"? Она принята на вооружение в 1977 году...
      3. serega73
        serega73 25 October 2015 18: 15 New
        0
        yes, it’s been heard about her for a long time ... The beach of Poseidon, it seems, she was also called so
  • Anton Gavrilov
    Anton Gavrilov 25 October 2015 09: 17 New
    +4
    Пропаганда с целью запугать свое руководство русской "супер торпедой" чтобы вытрясти из руководства деньги на свои разработки.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. VALERIK_097
        VALERIK_097 25 October 2015 09: 34 New
        0
        I agree with your opinion 100%
      2. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 25 October 2015 09: 54 New
        0
        Quote: Anton Gavrilov
        our torpedo weapon in some cases was made essentially like a pistol, and in the west, in the usa, in particular as a sniper rifle

        The Americans, basically, have fiber optic control, which is not such an abstruse technology, but reliable and convenient, it is not clear what makes it difficult to do this in Russia.
        A flurry can be combined, in a certain area it would go as usual and in the end as a torpedo.
        1. Anton Gavrilov
          Anton Gavrilov 25 October 2015 10: 44 New
          +1
          Normal remote control prevents you from introducing a vicious outlook on many things that has persisted for a long time. Now it seems like they started to do it right.

          Unfortunately, the capabilities of the new boats, specifically the 885 / 885М and 955 / 955А projects, are unknown, since the PUTs are of great importance, and on the new boats the name of the PUTs is not known, what can I say about the possibilities.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. gjv
          gjv 25 October 2015 10: 58 New
          +1
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          The Americans, basically, have fiber optic control, which is not such an abstruse technology, but reliable and convenient, it is not clear what makes it difficult to do this in Russia.

          ТЭ-2 - Экспортная универсальная телеуправляемая самонаводящаяся электрическая торпеда. Создавалась ЦНИИ "Гидроприбор" на базе опытной УЭТТ - универсальная электрическая телеуправляемая торпеда выпуска 1987, как экспортный вариант торпеды УСЭТ-80КМ с системой телеуправления. В период с 1990 по 2002 ЦНИИ "Гидроприбор" по контракту с Китаем выполнил разработку торпеды УЭТТ, произведена поставка изделий и необходимой документации заказчику. По данным 2009 г. разработка торпеды для ПЛ пр.677 LADA под наименованием ТЭ-2 начата в 1990-е годы. Торпеда ТЭ-2 предназначена для поражения подводных лодок, надводных кораблей и неподвижных морских объектов. Серийное производство торпед предполагается на заводе "Двигатель" (г.Санкт-Петербург). Испытания (МВИ) торпед ТЭ-2-02 должны были пройти в 2007 г. Предлагается на экспорт по состоянию на 2009 г. и ранее. В некоторых источниках торпеда носит ошибочно присвоенный шифр "Игрушка".

          The TE-2 torpedo in the TE-2-01 version at the exhibition of arms of the naval saloon IMDS-2009 in St. Petersburg (photo - ABL22, http://military.tomsk.ru/forum)

          Modifications
          TE-2 model 01 - designed for 533-mm torpedo tubes with mechanical data input;
          TE-2 model 02 - designed for 533-mm torpedo tubes with electrical data input;
          TE-2 model 03 - has increased speed and homing radius for submarines and low cost, designed for 533-mm torpedo tubes with electrical data input
          The torpedo TE-2 has a cigar-shaped shape divided into 7 main compartments:
          The head compartment is a universal acoustic homing system (active-passive - for firing at submarines and sub-jet - for firing at NK).
          In the combat charging compartment there are non-contact and contact fuses and an explosive charge such as a marine mixture, which ensures effective destruction of the target.
          In the instrument compartment there is a small-sized specialized computer, an electronic unit of a telecontrol system, and elements of an automated control system.
          In the battery compartment - a disposable battery activated by sea water.
          In the power compartment there is an electric dual-mode power-plant (bi-rotational electric motor), a depth setting unit and a course setting unit with mechanical (spindle) data input (for TE-2-01) and a telecontrol torpedo coil (TKTU).
          In the aft compartment with a tail section there are propellers and four feathers with vertical and horizontal rudders for controlling the torpedo in direction and depth on the bearing planes of which a connector for electrical data input is fixed (for TE-2-02).
          Remote control boat coil.
          Weight 2450 (2400 without CTU) kg
          Length 8300 (7900 without CTU) mm
          Diameter 533 mm
          MC warhead, 250 kg
          Speed ​​45 knots (1 mode) 32 knots (2 mode)
          Range 15 km (1 mode) 25 km (2 mode)
          Depth of the submarine when firing 5-350 m
          Homing control with NK Telecontrol with submarine
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. gjv
          gjv 25 October 2015 11: 05 New
          0
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          The Americans, basically, have fiber optic control, which is not such an abstruse technology, but reliable and convenient, it is not clear what makes it difficult to do this in Russia.

          TEST-71 / TEST-71M - Anti-submarine remote-controlled electric homing torpedo. Developed by TsNII-173 (TsNIIAG) and TsNII "Gidropribor" in the course of work on the "Dolphin-2" design and development project. Chief designers - ZM Persits and MP Baluev, according to some sources - VA Golubkov. The R&D task was to install a telecontrol system on the SET-65 homing torpedoes. The tests of the Dolphin-2 complex were carried out in the Baltic and on Lake Ladoga. The torpedo and the Dolphin-2 telecontrol system were put into service under the name TEST-71 and KTU-71 in 1971. Later it was upgraded to TEST-71M. The TEST-71ME-NK modification is universal in terms of carriers and targets.

          Torpedo TEST-71 (Proshkin S., Marinin V. Russian torpedo weapons. // Military parade. No. 3/1997)


          Torpedo TEST-71M at the exhibition of the marine salon IMDS-2005, St. Petersburg, 2005 (http://paralay.iboards.ru)

          In the instrument compartment - acoustic active-passive homing system.
          In the combat charging compartment there is a non-contact acoustic fuse, an igniter and an explosive.
          The battery compartment has a silver-zinc battery.
          In the instrument compartment of the telecontrol - control devices, an electronic unit and a torpedo coil.
          In the rear part there is a power plant and mechanisms that control the movement of the torpedo, two propellers and four feathers with vertical and horizontal rudders to control the torpedo in direction and depth.
          At the helm of the tail is a towed coil.
          Weight 1750 kg
          Length 7900 mm
          Diameter 533,4 mm
          Warhead 205 kg
          DC motor
          Speed ​​35 knots and 24 knots
          Range 15 km at 24 knots
          SSN range of 800 m at 35 knots
          Depth up to 400 m
          TEST-71 - removed from the arsenal of the Russian Federation.
          TEST-71M - request
        6. The comment was deleted.
        7. gjv
          gjv 25 October 2015 11: 10 New
          0
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          The Americans, basically, have fiber optic control, which is not such an abstruse technology, but reliable and convenient, it is not clear what makes it difficult to do this in Russia.

          TT-1 - Export remote-controlled thermal torpedo. The torpedo was created on the basis of one of the promising torpedoes for the Russian Navy. Developed by the Central Research Institute "Gidropribor".

          The layout of the torpedo TT-1

          The control and guidance system is a strapdown inertial control system. The remote control of the torpedo is carried out until the target is captured by the homing system (SSN). CCH torpedoes on the wake track provides minimal loss of catch-up speed by aiming inside the wake track of the target. When used with surface ships, telecontrol is not used.
          The engine is a dual-mode thermal axial piston engine powered by a unitary fuel (monofuel) with a jet propulsion device.
          TTX torpedoes:
          Caliber - 533.4 mm
          TT-1 Russia TT-1 NATO
          Length 7200 mm 5895 mm
          Weight 2000 kg 1700 kg
          Weight of explosives 425 kg 425 kg (in TNT equivalent)
          Warranty period of storage on the carrier - 12 months
          Assigned service life - 10 years
          Assigned service life with average repair - 20 years
          Carriers: submarines and surface ships (without remote control).
          Export:
          China - in the period from 1990 to 2002, the Central Research Institute "Gidropribor", under a contract with China, carried out work on the development of the TT-1 torpedo - the work was completed by the supply of individual product compartments.
      3. gridasov
        gridasov 25 October 2015 10: 27 New
        -1
        You are absolutely right that no one has systemic knowledge to justify the physical processes that accompany the movement of this torpedo. But it is precisely on this dashboard that those axioms are confirmed that it is already possible and time to create turbines using those physical effects that are obvious. You just need to carry out the analysis according to new methods and organize the processes themselves according to the algorithms, and not think uniformity.
      4. adept666
        adept666 25 October 2015 20: 28 New
        0
        Add to this the zero stealth of the torpedo, because there is such a noise that there is not even any talk about any stealth of the boat after the salvo.
        And also the fact that because of her nightmarish specific impulse, she can easily damage the case ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. qQQQ
      qQQQ 25 October 2015 09: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: Anton Gavrilov
      Пропаганда с целью запугать свое руководство русской "супер торпедой" чтобы вытрясти из руководства деньги на свои разработки

      I maintain that high speed and a cavity make it impossible to aim at a target during movement, so shooting is carried out at a given point, on the basis that the target will not be able to go far and perform a maneuver in a short period of time. I strongly doubt the sufficient effectiveness of firing a torpedo with a conventional warhead. Even if you take into account the shooting from 10 km, then, in fact, the submariners turn into suicide bombers. No wonder this torpedo never became the main one for our Navy.
    4. Vladimir 1964
      Vladimir 1964 25 October 2015 10: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: Anton Gavrilov
      Пропаганда с целью запугать свое руководство русской "супер торпедой" чтобы вытрясти из руководства деньги на свои разработки.

      Думаю, что Ваш комментарий, Уважаемый Антон, наиболее близок к реальности, ибо действительно нет никаких веских оснований вдруг вспоминать разработку более чем двадцатилетней давности. Причем, как правы некоторые коллеги, торпеда эффективна при использовании с "ядерной" БЧ. Что конечно не умаляет её достоинств как перспективное направления в развитии подобных видов вооружений.

      Something like that, colleague. hi
  • Igor39
    Igor39 25 October 2015 09: 18 New
    +2
    TTX "Shkval-E"
    Caliber, mm - 533,4
    Length, mm - 8200
    Weight, kg - 2700
    Range, km - to 10
    Speed ​​on the march, m / s - 90-100
    The angle after a volley reversal, degrees - ± 20
    Depth of stroke on the march, m - 6
    Type of warhead - high explosive
    Mass of warhead (TNT equivalent), kg - not less than 210
    Type of launch - surface or underwater
    Underwater launch depth, m - up to 30
    Direct-flow hydraulic jet engine
    Disadvantages
    Due to the enormous speed (200 knots), the torpedo produces strong noise and vibration, which unmasks the submarine. [5]
    The short launch range (only 13 km) unmasks the submarine, which negatively affects survivability.
    The maximum depth of the course (up to 30 m) does not allow hitting submarines at great depths.
    The specific impulse of a ramjet engine is 2,5-3 times higher than that of known rocket engines, which can cause damage to the sonar of the submarine, in addition, the bow of the torpedo does not allow the homing head to be installed on it - overboard water flows through the bow. [6]
    Low probability of hitting a target with a conventional warhead and without a seeker.
    1. Penetrator
      Penetrator 25 October 2015 09: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: Igor39
      The short launch range (only 13 km) unmasks the submarine, which negatively affects survivability

      In general, the weapon of death row. The justification for the use is only an unequal exchange of submarines for a more significant target (the same aircraft carrier)
      1. Andrey NM
        Andrey NM 25 October 2015 10: 21 New
        +4
        Вы о чем? Какое оружие смертников? Оно и придумывалось, чтобы не стать смертником, это оружие самообороны. У нее "башка" ядерная, выстрелил по всей группе и удрал.
        А придумали "Шквал" в результате дезы, американцы слили информацию, якобы у них есть торпеда со скоростью более 100 узлов. Думали, что это сверхзадача, наша промышленность пупок надорвет. Не надорвали. Потом Эдмонд Поуп на чертежах попался, изображал больного раком. ЕБН его отпустил, а зря. Поуп теперь пишет книжки, как он на "параше" в Лефортово сидел. Я нисколько не утрирую. Почему-то "параша" ему запомнилась особенно, он и в интервью об этом говорил.

        And the picture in the head of the article - here is the Shark, and the rocket under water, and the dolphin stunned laughing
  • bashmak
    bashmak 25 October 2015 09: 18 New
    +3
    An interesting unit-380km per hour under water? Fantasy!
    1. Sharky
      Sharky 25 October 2015 09: 29 New
      +5
      Никакой фантастики, только законы природы. Вокруг ракетоторпеды создаётся область с низким давлением, из-за чего появляется такой эффект как кавитация. Кавитация - это образование паровых пузырьков воды в зонах с пониженным давлением, поэтому ракетоторпеда движется в "газовом кармане" (газ - водяной пар). В таком режиме существенно уменьшается сила трения между поверхностью среды (морская вода) и поверхностью Шквала. Что и является основной причиной развития достаточно большой скорости под водой. Кавитация является отрицательным эффектом и её стараются уменьшить в случае с гребными винтами или крылатками в центробежных насосах. Производятся новые материалы и сплавы, так как при всхлопывании пузырька пара выделяется энергия, которая разрушает материал винта или импеллера. Появляются каверны на поверхности. Но, учёные нашли и положительное применение данного эффекта (эффекта кавитации) в данной ракетоторпеде или подводных боеприпасах (подводный автомат АПС). hi
      1. bashmak
        bashmak 25 October 2015 09: 39 New
        0
        Вы все правильно описали.Но просчитайте расход энергии для создания 'газового кармана'плюс энергия на движение,плюс боевой заряд!В лаборатории можно-но это серийные устройства!
        1. Sharky
          Sharky 25 October 2015 09: 48 New
          +2
          "Газовый карман" создаётся посредствам насадки на носу ракетоторпеды. Насадку (форма и размеры) рассчитали один раз в КБ, и по шаблону делают остальные (методом литья или на токарном станке - тут уж не знаю). А раз такую ракетоторпеду создали, значит было целесообразно в плане отношения расхода топлива к эффективности. Ради скорости пришлось кое-чем пожертвовать (читайте недостатки).
          1. bashmak
            bashmak 25 October 2015 10: 28 New
            -1
            Well, let's calculate, sharpen and put a nozzle on the bow of a motor boat-380km per hour? Something is not visible. And as for expediency, I completely agree with you.
            1. Sharky
              Sharky 25 October 2015 10: 39 New
              +1
              A motor boat moves through a section of two environments. Cavitation is possible only in a liquid medium. Therefore, it is not possible to calculate the nozzle. A submarine - yes, theoretically possible. Just how to navigate under water and get coordinates? Can a person be in such a submarine because of all the associated vibrations and overloads? It would be possible - they would have already calculated and built, you can not doubt it.
              1. bashmak
                bashmak 25 October 2015 13: 51 New
                -1
                And who is stopping to put the nozzle on the keel? I was engaged in hydrodynamics and affirm that it’s theoretically impossible to give such a speed to a vessel with a displacement of thousands of tons! And as for the human factor, you are right, but there are devices that do not care about acceleration-robots. By the way, cavitation is possible not only in a liquid medium.
      2. gridasov
        gridasov 25 October 2015 10: 39 New
        -2
        Почему Вы думаете , что оболочка представляет из себя область низкого давления. Это наоборот область сверхвысокого давления меняющая поляризацию корпуса или поверхности истечения торпеды из взаимодействия с водой на взаимодействие с газом. Если бы кавитация происходила на поверхности истечения корпуса , то разрушения этого материала было бы неизбежно . Ни один материал существующий на планете не выдержит температуру кавитационого импульса . С другой стороны очевидно , что кавитационные процессы происходят на границе соприкосновения газа и воды где и образуется слои взаимодействия газа в воде и воды в газе. И именно в этих слоях образуется акустический эффект сопровождения кавитации. Поэтому рыбы и используют "технические" природные эффекты понижающие кавитацию , но при этом используют концентрацию и распределение магнитных силовых потоков по корпусу всего совокупного тела и на поверхности истечения .
        1. Sharky
          Sharky 25 October 2015 13: 10 New
          +2
          Cavitation is precisely the formation of vapor bubbles in low pressure areas. Imagine a propeller spinning in water that carries water along with it. On some areas of the propeller blades, areas of pressure rarefaction and the appearance of bubbles will occur. When the pressure decreases (there is a rupture of the water flow near the surface of the propeller blade), the water passes from the liquid state to the gas state (bubbles), since when the pressure decreases, the boiling point decreases. Then the blade turns and the profile changes. Discharge zones disappear and the bubbles soak, releasing energy. This energy destroys the surface of the screw. The destruction of the material is inevitable, but not as intense as you think. Modern propellers can work for years, like lionfish in centrifugal pumps. There are special alloys that are resistant to cavitation, and the life cycle of a rocket torpedo is low. During her approach to the goal, cavitation will not cause noticeable wear to the body.
  • Andryukha G
    Andryukha G 25 October 2015 09: 18 New
    +3
    Ракета "Шквал" предназначена (в большей своей задаче) уничтожить знаменитые американские авианосцы (которые из-за своих огромных размеров являются отличными целями для подводной ракеты летящей под водой на скорости 380 км/ч).
    1. andranick
      andranick 25 October 2015 10: 31 New
      +1
      Rather, to destroy the carrier groups using special. warhead. At least in terms of performance characteristics, it is difficult to imagine another application. In this case, the unmasking effect is not important, the speed and power of the impact are important
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 25 October 2015 09: 20 New
    +2
    Flurry has its drawbacks, so I wouldn’t really be happy.
    In particular. engines start to work even in the torpedo compartment,
    which immediately identifies the boat.
  • Federal
    Federal 25 October 2015 09: 22 New
    -1
    The pundits in Russia have not yet transferred, not everyone has sold themselves to a foreign paradise, it takes a sense of pride for our scientists from the defense industry. I bow to them for such inventions and developments.
  • Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 25 October 2015 09: 30 New
    +1
    This underwater rocket flies only in a straight line. Of course there are minuses, but missiles used to fly only in a straight line. Our kulibins, I think, will teach her how to maneuver.
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 25 October 2015 09: 40 New
      +1
      Quote: Alexander 3
      This underwater rocket flies only in a straight line. Of course there are minuses, but missiles used to fly only in a straight line. Our kulibins, I think, will teach her how to maneuver.

      Be sure to teach ..! Give time, money and do not bother! hi
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 25 October 2015 12: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: Alexander 3
      Our kulibins, I think, will teach her how to maneuver.
      Maneuver at such a speed, in such a dense environment? Well, what strength characteristics of the body do you need to have?
      Further in a circle: strength pulled weight, weight - energy, that weight again, etc.
      (Be in Kolyma - I beg you! - No, you’re better off to us, to Moscow! (S) laughing
      1. Alexander 3
        Alexander 3 25 October 2015 15: 29 New
        0
        And with a decrease in speed on a course change, I think I will be able to maneuver.
      2. gridasov
        gridasov 25 October 2015 15: 37 New
        0
        Ask any physicist. Maneuverability at any ultra-high linear speed is achieved by changing the plane. Or along a simple, linear plane to the plane of rotation.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 25 October 2015 16: 02 New
          -1
          Maybe someone misunderstood that the body itself does not have to be moved to the plane of rotation. For this, you just need to control the magnetic force flows around the object of motion.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. dgiguli1962
      dgiguli1962 25 October 2015 10: 29 New
      0
      This refers to nuclear warheads.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 25 October 2015 14: 15 New
        0
        yeah, bch for anti-torpedo defense? yes
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 25 October 2015 10: 02 New
    0
    Seeing such a development in Russia, the Americans are doing their best to harm Russia.
    Russia is gaining strength no matter what.
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 25 October 2015 10: 20 New
      +2
      This is a development of the USSR, and Americans need horror stories to knock out the military budget, and that’s what scares taxpayers
  • Old26
    Old26 25 October 2015 10: 25 New
    0
    Quote: ruslan
    a flurry-2 should be homing and hit 50-100 km. then the fleet will be able to genocide any enemy pl :)

    Yeah and the dimensions of the torpedo T-15 ... laughing Какое же у всех желание "придумать" что-то лучше, чем конструкторы той же торпеды. Если торпеду типа "Шквал" - то на 100 км (кстати, а почему не на 300)? если КР - так в любую "дырку затычка", готовы хоть на подводы ставить...

    Quote: Tlauicol
    They write to Herney: "A 463-pound missile warhead detonating at a set time can destroy nearby enemy submarines and approaching torpedoes," the authors of the rating write.

    Flurry can neither submarines (except that in the water position), nor torpedoes to hit

    I agree, it can be written (or translated) clumsily, but she could hit boats and surface ships (no torpedoes). The truth is probably not with detonation at the set time, i.e. remotely. Although an explosion of 210 kg of explosives can cause damage to the boat in case of non-contact detonation, it will certainly put you off course or hit torpedoes
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 26 October 2015 00: 15 New
      0
      In principle, you can create a torpedo without a cavitator, capable of developing even 1000 kilometers per hour.
  • razv35
    razv35 25 October 2015 10: 26 New
    0
    Что мешает п/л выпустить такую торпеду "по тихому", навести на цель и лишь на конечном этапе включить двигатели и 100% поразить цель.
    This is a fundamentally new weapon and it must be used in a fundamentally new way.

    An underwater unmanned vehicle in search of a target, upon detection of such, produces one or more shots by such missiles. Win-win option
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 25 October 2015 10: 32 New
      0
      Dimensions: add one more step to 8200 mm
      Mass: 2700 +++ how much? a couple more tons?
      The new TA will need to be developed, longer, possibly wider
      Accordingly, new submarines
      Homing ??? The nose part sucks in water, where to put the GOS?
      Yes, hundreds of problems will arise ..
    2. VALERIK_097
      VALERIK_097 25 October 2015 17: 42 New
      0
      razv35: read something about sea mines and you don’t have to invent anything.
  • Old26
    Old26 25 October 2015 10: 37 New
    0
    Quote: MIKHAN
    I read about this development for a long time ... Really?

    It has already been removed from service, more precisely from ships and submarines, but you just heard what happened ??? laughing
  • ASG7
    ASG7 25 October 2015 10: 49 New
    +1
    Ну вот опять, извечная борьба оптимистов и пессимистов. Скажем так, конструкция "Шквала" имеет огромный резерв для модернизации и что в него уже запихали наши конструкторы и что могут запихать в будущем всегда останется нестерпимой головной болью для наших потенциальных противников под грифом "совершенно секретно".
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 25 October 2015 12: 08 New
      0
      Exactly! All that is associated with this torpedo is part of the algorithms for cognition and development of technologies. This is primarily an understanding of the essence of physical processes. And I can say that I am again and again asserting that we are still able to create a turbine using such algorithms for organizing physical processes, in which the processes associated with this torpedo are used as part of some private stages. How secret it is, one can only guess.
      1. ASG7
        ASG7 25 October 2015 13: 36 New
        +1
        Несомненно. Экспликация фундаментальных физических процессов не может привести с созданию неординарных технических решений. Для их реализации в железе необходимы и эмпирические познания, выраженные в конструкторских школах, и везение в определениях взаимодействий на уровне процессов зависящих от бесконечного числа неизвестных и переходящих в область фантастики, под грифом "особой важности".
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 25 October 2015 14: 09 New
          0
          Должен Вас предупредить , что на страницах этого сайта меня знают как не совсем нормального , но слава БОГУ терпят. Поэтому я приму любой ответ и без обид. Отвечу на Ваши цитаты из последней строки. На современном математическом уровне невозможно найти единственно правильного математического решения исходя из комплекса ограниченного вводных параметров и при этом получить бесконечное множество неизвестных. И при этом пользуясь исключительно двоичной логикой в "анализе". Поэтому и многие технические решения балансируют на грани того , что воспринимаются как фантастика. При этом сами они находятся в шаге от реализации. Итак . Комплексные , высокоемкие , высокодинамичные и стоит уточнить -разнодинамические совмещенные процессы можно подвергнуть математическому анализу во всей полноте только в случае если пользоваться не функцией числа основанной на его переменном значении , а на постоянной функции числа. Тогда можно не просто без ограничений вводить исходные параметры анализа , но и получать систему выраженную не единственно правильном ответе , а получать именно систему сопоставительных параметров. Иными словами в современной математике и не знают , что такое суть самого анализа. Это ведь не то единственно правильное решение , которое мы ищем и которое можем только обратным процессом перепроверить. Анализ этот именно возможность рассмотреть математически диспозицию выделенного решения с позиций разных соприкасающихся математических процессов. Надеюсь я понятно выражаюсь? Короче . Тот же процесс кавитации необходимо рассматривать как комплексный и с учетом развития всей совокупность отдельных процессов и в воде и в разных ее частях и на поверхности истечения и др. Поэтому если мне говорят , что кавитация происходит в области низкого давления , то это уже тест на проф пригодность. И когда я говорю о технических решениях , которые уже можно осваивать и применять , то конечно я понимаю почему я не нормальный
          1. ASG7
            ASG7 25 October 2015 15: 07 New
            +1
            Sorry if I offended, I did not want to. That's just why so simplify my judgments to such a state that any first grader will digest them.
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 25 October 2015 15: 10 New
              0
              No, this did not apply to you. This is so preemptive. An interested person wants to explain and do it with pleasure, but self-confident in his erroneous conviction and also being rude to the right and left, patience needs to be obtained somewhere else. Sorry to take this to yourself.
            2. gridasov
              gridasov 25 October 2015 15: 18 New
              0
              А Вы знаете , что очень уместно заметили . Я когда рассказываю о построении комплексной системы анализа на постоянной функции числа , то меня люди мало знакомые с математикой понимают гораздо быстрее, чем те, кто знают тонкости азов современной высшей расчетной математики. Я и сам десятки лет думал , что схожу с ума в одиночку. Но ведь числа и очевидные процессы с ними это слишком реальные " вещи ", которые -то и с ума не дают сойти.
              1. ASG7
                ASG7 25 October 2015 15: 30 New
                +1
                I just wanted to ask, where is the line between reality and fantasy, from the point of view of mathematical calculations.
                1. gridasov
                  gridasov 25 October 2015 16: 00 New
                  0
                  I would say differently. Where is the line between the illusion that ensures our vitality in this or that world and the reality that we are able to perceive in order to remain human.
        2. gridasov
          gridasov 25 October 2015 15: 06 New
          0
          Let me also note that it is empirical spontaneous decisions that can no longer give a breakthrough effect both in ideas and in the analysis and development of what will be created and developed. Why? Because I highly note that high-potential physical processes are again complex, and single correct decisions will be ruined by the next stage of the transient transformation of the process. I also note that high-potential processes have an equivalent growth in their transience, if I may say so.
          1. ASG7
            ASG7 25 October 2015 15: 15 New
            +1
            Уже боюсь комментировать, но рискну. Все эти выводы и утверждения наверно из собственного опыта. И поясните в каком значении слово "комплексные" (ну в смысле - сложные или с мнимой единицей)?
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 25 October 2015 15: 33 New
              -1
              You do not beware. I'm the same first-grader in this area as everyone else, Just a little earlier I came into contact with this. Therefore, self-conceit does not torment me. I will say right away that any person, neither in the past nor in the future, can invent all of this. Too everything is diverse and extraordinary. Therefore, sometimes you have to take everything on yourself, so as not to scare people. I just involuntarily have the ability to see what others do not see and no more.
              Integrated is not abstractly complex. This is a perfect and not ambiguous statement in the form of mathematical constructions by numbers. Everything that we see in these structures is already the deepest content. But what we see is only and only numbers, their flows, their interconnectedness and algorithms. Their comparability and latent dynamics and potential. But we see all this and rather perceive it, and the terminology is already a derivative. Therefore, nothing imaginary or veiled. Everything is absolutely accurate and clear. Therefore, I’m saying that information can have not just an expanded space, but also the potential for depth or richness. And so I just applied some aspects of this analysis to processes that we sometimes call chaotic, turbulent, etc. In fact, everything is very simple and accessible to our understanding, and most importantly, it is applicable to the practical development in the form of the devices of which I speak.
              1. ASG7
                ASG7 25 October 2015 15: 39 New
                +1
                Thank. I think your answer is exhaustive for me and there are no more questions.
                1. gridasov
                  gridasov 25 October 2015 16: 23 New
                  0
                  Я приведу пример. Откуда "растут ноги" у числа ПИ. С одной стороны мы решаем геометрическую задачу , а с другой расчетную и связанную с числами. С геометрическим определением мы берем статическое определение формы окружности для любой размерности ее и не помышляем себе , что любая окружность это производное многоугольника в сторону увеличения или уменьшения его углов. ЭТо я не говорю о полноразмерной фигуре -СФЕРЕ. Размерность же мы определяем относительно выбранного нами определенного числа. И мы делим размерность длины окружности на диаметр и делим . И будем делить это до бесконечности. На самом же деле . размерность длины окружности всегда может быть сведена к целочисленному значению , как и диаметр . И алгоритмы размерности трансформации размерности числа этой длины меняется как алгоритм , а равно так же идет процесс и с диаметром. Т.е это два самостоятельных процесса транформаций размерности. Но которые имеют не только собственные алгоритмы изменений , но и алгоритм трансформации их соотношения.Математически все это показывается совершенно просто и наглядно , чтобы не говорить , что это бред. Но ! Мы не задаемся вопросом , а как же меняется и расширяется или сжимается эта окружность или сфера в соответствии с изменением размерности ее длины окружности и диаметра? А ведь существует закон , что с изменением размерности топологического пространства каждая точка этого пространства меняет свою диспозиции и по размерности и по местоположению и по тому пути как она движется. Поэтому назвать нас -людей примитивными это мало сказать. А отсюда и вытекает понимание того почему капля отрывается от массива основного потока ли почему формируется и зачем и почему образуется струя и как она движется. Почему и зачем капля схлопывается , но прежде образует определенную размерность и др. А мы все это называем КАВИТАЦИЯ. Смех да и только. Порой мне кажется , что быть простым и наивным человеком это высшее счастье.
                  1. ASG7
                    ASG7 25 October 2015 18: 14 New
                    +1
                    Excuse me. but with your description of Pi, you reminded me of a student from China, when in his textbook on hydrodynamics, instead of the basics, I saw that they were studying specific designs of hydraulic devices. For me, the Pi number is the coefficient of transition of a linear quantity to a nonlinear one, in order to simplify the calculations.
                    1. gridasov
                      gridasov 25 October 2015 18: 49 New
                      0
                      In my opinion, I did not write anything from myself. I have described only the real things that we neglect. Why did you attribute this to my fantasy. You yourself say that for you this is only an opportunity to solve the problem of the transition of linear quantities to nonlinear ones, and I have shown an even greater depth of the content of the process associated with the Pi number. And it turns out I look like a student. In general, the star shines for us, the path is illuminated, everyone knows how and what to do. Go ahead for orders.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • 35lisment35
    35lisment35 25 October 2015 11: 32 New
    0
    Kursk died because of this torpedo
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 25 October 2015 12: 10 New
      0
      Why not? The chemical reactions that underlie the movement of this torpedo obviously remain uncontrollable. And that is a fact. You don’t even need to touch the mass of water, but the level of humidity of the environment is enough to activate the reaction. If this happened in the case, then the end is inevitable. Therefore, the prospects for these technologies are not entirely bright.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 25 October 2015 23: 01 New
        0
        You are familiar with the concepts of the level of interaction of the microdispersed material produced by its emission when using high current with a level of dispersion of water in a vapor state. If not, then I stop raving.
  • Old26
    Old26 25 October 2015 12: 06 New
    0
    Quote: 35lisment35
    Kursk died because of this torpedo

    Everyone always said that from the 65th she died ...
  • PPD
    PPD 25 October 2015 12: 33 New
    0
    The torpedo is designed to use Yab. He has no guidance. In fact, bang somewhere there. We have nowhere else to put special ammunition? In general, the idea is beautiful, but unfinished.
  • Resistance
    Resistance 25 October 2015 13: 01 New
    0
    Already got this buggy VA-111. Okay zhurnalyugi without brains, but the rest? Before she shoots, you get stuck on a boat to create the required launch conditions. And the distance? It is forbidden for an opponent to approach the distance of 2 times as much into the aft sector of heading courses. If our submarine weapon has a travel distance of less than 30 km, it’s a useless load (the enemy will either not get it, or will have time to leave). If a weapon cannot be shot in emergency mode for 45 seconds without the shadow sector of the KKU, at V = up to 16-18 knots, at depths to the working one - thank you, no need.
  • sir_obs
    sir_obs 25 October 2015 17: 51 New
    +1
    Diluted again butiaga.
    The question is, who didn’t actually attack the ships and submarines on the pl.
    Who generally held the tactical leadership on the tactics and combat use of torpedo weapons?

    It is especially funny to hear about the fact that we have a topopedia pistol, while the United States has a sniper rifle.

    In fact, a torpedo is a gun, especially when compared with missile weapons.
    So from the experience of combat use. The effective range of torpedoes for a surface ship is 45 cable, for a submarine is 25 cable.
    And if the torpedo has a range of 30 kilometers, this does not mean that at such a distance you will get somewhere. The homing system works at a very small distance from the target, first you need to bring the torpedo to a point where it can capture the target, but the target does not go in a straight line and the greater the distance, the more difficult it is to get into it,
    As for the barrage, he’s exactly a gun, shooting on a bearing in the real place of the target, when there is no time to determine its elements of movement, it is a weapon, first of all, of self-defense.
  • evge-malyshev
    evge-malyshev 25 October 2015 18: 52 New
    0
    Quote: gridasov
    The controlled torpedo movement function set by the operator is tantamount to controlling an unmanned vehicle


    Понял, но если по-русски, то - "функция управления...". Спасибо за подсказку.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 25 October 2015 22: 07 New
    0
    Germany has developed an analogue of Flurry, with good characteristics, also uncontrollable. Application - firing on the course with a preemptive fan.
  • gridasov
    gridasov 25 October 2015 23: 31 New
    0
    By the way, on the same site it will not be out of place to see that DARPA is very actively engaged in the development of engines based on new process organization algorithms. Therefore, the question of time is who will come first to those decisions that already exist in some form.
  • meriem1
    meriem1 26 October 2015 16: 57 New
    0
    Lovers minus !!! Take off your bras and at least in PM you need to defend your position !!!! Even there is no suit. Hiding is easier !!!! And then everything does NOT LIKE !!! Russian troops are not like that. And the technology is not the same! Just break away from the American DUDA .... if at least something Russian is left in you. I'm not always right. Sometimes I drive. There is no doubt about it ... But no one will say that I’m bending the soul.