Large capacity stores for handguns

In any gunshot weaponsStarting with pistols and ending with machine guns, today shops are used. The store is a special mechanism for feeding cartridges. At the same time, stores can be detachable or inalienable. There is a wide variety of types of shops: box, disk, screw, tubular and many others. IN stories modern small arms are used by all types of stores. At the same time, the first stores were used in China in the XII century, they were found in the design of crossbows.


Since then, much has changed, but one of the most important characteristics of a firearm is its combat rate of fire. Fighting rate of fire is the number of shots that can be made in a minute with the exact implementation of techniques and rules of fire, taking into account the time spent on reloading weapons, adjusting and transferring fire from one target to another. This characteristic of small arms has a great influence on the design of shops. First of all, there is a tendency to increase the combat rate of fire by reducing the time spent on reloading weapons. In turn, to achieve a reduction in reloading time, it is necessary either to increase the capacity of the store, or to improve the skills of the shooter in handling weapons.

Increasing the capacity of stores is more preferable, since in battle situations arise quite often when the shooter simply doesn’t have time to reload a weapon, or simply doesn’t have to replace an empty store with a full shooter. In addition, large-capacity stores have other advantages: they can significantly increase the density of fire, this is especially important in tense moments of battle. But a simple increase in the size of small arms stores leads to an increase in their mass, which means an increase in mass and dimensions and the entire weapon system. Along with this, designers have to change the feed mechanism of cartridges and increase the spring stiffness of the magazine. All this, in turn, leads to a deterioration in the operational characteristics of the store and complicates the shooter’s process of equipping it with cartridges. All these problems have to be solved, since the weapon’s firing rate is very important.



In military tactics, the rate of fire of weapons has always played an important role. Even before the emergence and widespread use of automatic weapons, rapid-fire magazine rifles made it possible to achieve cardinal superiority over the enemy, which was armed with single-shot rifles. For the first time in history, this clearly manifested itself during the years of the American Civil War. And the appearance of smokeless powder at the end of the 19th century led to the development of even more rapid-fire automatic weapons, which, in turn, required the designers to develop more capacious and reliable stores and mechanisms for feeding weapons with ammunition. Even the very first automatic rifles and machine guns were able to use the contents of a typical rifle magazine at that time (5-6 ammunition) in literally a split second. At the same time, the use of shops of different types and capacities increased the possibilities of individual small arms, especially automatic ones. And one of the most common types of stores for such weapons became box stores.

Box Shops

In the box magazine cartridges are parallel to each other. Today it is the most common type of store in the world. These stores are characterized by ease of use and a high level of reliability, but most often they have a small capacity (with the exception of four rows). In addition, in practice, various ways of fastening between two or three box magazines together in order to speed up the process of reloading weapons are used: handicraft (insulating tape), or factory execution (brackets).

Box-type stores belong to one of the oldest power systems for small arms. Early versions of such shops were used on very well-known manual reload rifles, including the Russian Mosin three-line rifle of the 1891 model of the year (single-row non-detachable magazine for 5 cartridges), the German Mauser of the 1898 model of the year (dual-row non-detachable magazine for 5 cartridges) and the British Li-Enfield rifle (double row detachable magazine on 10 cartridges). Most often, box-shaped stores contained cartridges in one or two rows (in a checkerboard pattern). At the same time, the volume of rifle stores was limited by a set of practical considerations, which included survivability and spring strength, reliability (the larger the magazine’s capacity and its length, the higher the total friction forces in it) and the dimensions of the weapon.



Most often, box magazines for light machine guns designed for rifle cartridges had a capacity of no more than 30 cartridges, while similar box magazines for automatic and self-loading rifles contained from 10 to 20 cartridges. For some models of light machine guns, there were box stores with 40 ammo capacity, but such models were very rare. With the advent of lighter and more compact intermediate cartridges, box magazines for them began to hold up to 40-45 cartridges (for light machine guns) and up to 30 cartridges (for automatic rifles).

For mass-produced submachine guns, the capacity of box magazines sometimes reached 50 cartridges, as was the case with the German MP.28 and its English clone "Lanchester". But in most cases, the capacity of box magazines for submachine guns did not exceed 30-35 cartridges. Variants of stores with a capacity of 40 cartridges were very rare. For example, in the well-known German MP38 / 40 machine guns, the capacity of the magazine was the 32 cartridge. This limitation was due to both the inconvenience of loading long stores (due to the need for strong springs) and the inconvenience of wearing them both on the arms and in the pouches.

Twin box stores

Since the capacity of box magazines was limited to practical considerations, and the fighters wanted to always have “on hand” as many cartridges as possible, some weapons designers began trying to combine several box magazines into one unit. The simplest solution to this problem was to wind up two or three stores side by side using the most common electrical tape, but this solution still required a certain amount of time for the soldier to change stores. Box-like stores, which were physically combined in pairs, that is, in one building, became a logical development of this idea. These stores required the presence of a special receiver in the weapon, thanks to which the process of switching from one compartment to another took place, which would take no more than a second from a trained fighter.



One of the first samples of small arms with a similar scheme was the American submachine gun M35 system Hyde. In this submachine gun, two box-shaped two-row stores were combined with each other in one block "side by side". The block of stores was inserted into the receiver from the side. Thus, on the supply line of cartridges turned out to be one of the compartments of the store. After the cartridges in the first compartment came to an end, the shooter pressed a special latch and shifted the block of shops, so that the second compartment turned out to be on the cartridge supply line.

A similar scheme was later used in HAFDASA “La Criolla” machine guns of Argentine production. But here the shop, consisting of two compartments, did not move sideways, but swung to the right or left of the vertical, so that one of its two compartments was on the supply line of cartridges. During World War II, German designers tried to solve this problem in their own way, using a receiver-pistol sliding in the transverse plane into two standard 32-charging stores. This solution has even been introduced into production. The MP.40 / I submachine gun from Erma was released in a small series, and the submachine gun EMP-44 remained experienced.

Large capacity stores for handguns
Experienced American submachine gun Hyde M35 with power from twin stores


Four-row box stores

Although coupled box stores provided an increase in the capacity of cartridges, they demanded that the shooter perform very specific conscious actions aimed at switching between the compartments of the store. For this reason, it was quite logical to develop the idea of ​​combining two compartments into one common outlet so that the cartridges from the store could be simultaneously fed into the weapon from two compartments at once, without requiring distraction of the soldier’s attention until the entire store was replaced.

Already at the end of 1930, Swede Schillstrom (Schillstrom) patented a system that can be attributed to one of the first successful attempts to develop such a store. The store he proposed, which was adopted by the Swedish and Finnish Suomi machine guns, in its lower part represented two combined box-shaped compartments with a double-row arrangement of cartridges in each of them. In the upper part of this store had a trapezoidal shape, in this place cartridges from four rows were rebuilt first in two, and then in one. These stores had a capacity in 50 or 56 cartridges and had a length that was comparable to the length of the usual double row box magazine on 30 cartridges.



The price that had to be paid for the gain in size was the price of the stores, the reduced level of reliability due to significant friction in complex rebuilding of cartridges from four rows into one, and the impossibility in practice to fill such a store with cartridges manually without using special tools due to the installation stiffer springs. After the end of World War II, a similar system was created in Italy for use in SITES Specter machine pistols. And nowadays, four-row box stores for an intermediate cartridge have been created for automatic machines.

For example, 60-charging four-row shops for RPK-74 and AK-74 were developed in Russia, and in the USA they created 60- and 100-charging four-row shops for 5,56-mm M-16 assault rifles; Surefire was engaged in the development of such shops . At the same time, the popularity of such box magazines is limited by their lower level of reliability (as compared to the usual 30 cartridges), as well as by a rather high cost. For example, 60-charge Surefire store in the USA can be purchased for 120 dollars, for the same amount you can buy from 6 to 10 ordinary 30-charging stores.



Tandem shops

Another way to combine the two box stores into one to increase their capacity was to place the stores in one building in tandem, that is, one after the other, and not side by side, as described above. One of the earliest models that embodied this concept was the Vesely submachine gun, a Czech designer designed it in the UK in 1942-43. In his system, cartridges were first fed from the front compartment, and then from the back, where cartridges were initially held below the feed line using a special cut-off. After the cartridges ended in the first compartment, this cut-off was automatically turned off, after which the weapon began to receive cartridges from the rear compartment. This scheme complicated the design of the weapon and, despite the number of attempts to use it, it never went into mass production.

Drum Shops

Drum shops are cylindrical shops in which cartridges are arranged in one or several rows parallel to the axis of the drum near the walls. Such stores have a large capacity, but they are less convenient to use and weigh more, the supply spring in such stores is often cocked separately, with a special key or fingers. Drum shops were used in some light machine guns and submachine guns, extremely rarely in self-loading pistols, machine guns and self-loading shotguns. Drum shops appeared in the XIX century. In some American Gatling bullpen, Acles drum shops were used. The typical capacity of such stores was 50-100 cartridges. In this case, one of the most famous examples of their use is, of course, Thompson submachine guns (magazines on 50 and 100 ammunition), the Finnish Suomi submachine gun (71 cartridge) and the Soviet PPSh submachine gun and PPD (71 cartridge).

Drum shop for PPSh


For more modern light machine guns, which were created under the intermediate cartridge, 75 cartridges (cartridges of the Soviet RPK caliber 7,62-mm) and 100 cartridges (Singapore Ultimax caliber 5,56-mm) were developed. But the real popularity of these stores was prevented by their significant mass and size, as well as the inconvenience of ammunition equipment. It is no coincidence that in the years of the Great Patriotic War, the PPSH drum shop was replaced by curved box-shaped stores (35 cartridges). Affected and the price of such stores. For example, the 50 drum magazine for the Thompson submachine gun in 1940 prices of the year cost 21 dollars, while the 20 magazine for this submachine guns could be purchased for 3 dollars, that is, once in 7 times cheaper. At the same time, the 50-charging drum magazine for Thompson weighed 1,14 kg (and this without cartridges) against the 0,18 kg for the 20-charging box magazine. The situation is similar with the Soviet RPK, whose 75-cartridge drum shop weighs 0,9 kg (without cartridges), and the 40-cartridge box magazine has just 0,2 kg.

PCA


Twin drum shops

But the matter was not limited to simply drum shops. In history, paired drum shops also met. The first production samples appeared in Germany in the 1930s. They were used along with the MG-13 and MG-34 infantry machine guns and aviation machine gun MG-15. These stores consisted of two separate drums, which had a common outlet neck. Such stores were notable for their significant weight, high manufacturing price, as well as the difficult process of filling cartridges. The advantage was the small overall height when installing magazines on weapons. This was due to the fact that the outlet neck was between the drums.

MG-34


This system was revived at the end of the XX century and is represented by the line of stores of the American company Beta-C, which produces 100-cartridge twin drum shops for various cartridges for different types of weapons: from 9x19 mm to 7,6251 mm. The problem of overweight of such stores was partially solved due to the widespread use of modern plastics, but in terms of price and overall reliability, these stores are still inferior to the usual box-shaped ones. For example, for the cost of one dual drum Beta-C for cartridges of caliber 5,56 mm (worth 250 dollars) you can buy from 15 to 20 ordinary 30-charging box magazines for cartridges of the same caliber.

Screw shops

Cartridges in auger stores are parallel to their axis, spiraling forward. They are supplied separately cocked spring. This store has the shape of a long cylinder that has a spiral guide for cartridges inside - this is the auger - which ensures the movement of cartridges to the exit window. The first screw shops appeared at the end of the XIX century. In 1870, the American Evans developed a magazine rifle, into which the store was built on the basis of an auger (Archimedean screw). This store had a very significant at that point in time capacity - 34 cartridge.

However, due to the total design of such a store, it very quickly disappeared from the scene of arms, reviving only after more than 100 years. The most famous system of small arms, which currently uses auger stores, was a family of American self-loading carbines and submachine guns manufactured by Calico. These samples use auger magazine on 50 and 100 cartridges. Shops are made of plastic and join the arms on top. Shops of a similar design, but already attached to the weapon from below, are Russian submachine guns PP-19 "Bison" and PP-90М1.



Because of their shape and size, screw shops are more convenient to carry on arms and in pouches than classical drum shops, and the problem of their weight helps in part to solve the use of modern plastics. But such stores still remain very complex in design and therefore have a high cost.

Disc shops

Disk shops are often simply called “discs”. This shop is like a drum, but the cartridges in it are located perpendicular to the axis of the disk, in one or several rows. Due to the large weight and size of these stores are mainly used in light machine guns. Less commonly, they were used in aircraft and tank machine guns (Soviet DT and YES). In this case, the use of disc shop with a submachine gun were extremely rare. Examples of such weapons include the American submachine gun “American-180” and the experienced submachine gun Degtyarev 1929 of the year. Due to the large diameter, disc magazines are inconvenient to carry, especially when attached to a weapon. Their distinctive feature is that they are very well adapted to the storage and supply of cartridges with a protruding lip and a large taper of the liner.

For these reasons, these stores had some success in the early stages of developing light machine guns, when standard rifle cartridges with protruding rims still prevailed in the armies of many countries of the world. Usually, single-layer disc magazines had a capacity of 50 cartridges, and multi-layer, depending on the number of layers and design, could hold up to 150 cartridges.

Lewis Machine Gun Disc


At the same time, capacity champions among the mass-produced stores for handguns are multi-layer disc magazines designed for the American-180 submachine gun. Such shops could hold 160 to 275 cartridges depending on the number of layers. Such high capacity stores was achieved through the use of small-caliber 5,6-mm round-ignition cartridges (.22LR), which had a small mass and size. At the same time, a disk of comparable capacity for more powerful rifle cartridges would most likely weigh more than the light machine gun itself in the charged state. In fact, the disk magazine on 100 ammunition for the English Bren Mk.1 light machine gun weighed in with 5,45 ammo kg, without ammo - 2,9 kg. When using ordinary box magazines, four fully equipped 30-charging stores would have the same mass, and in addition to this a couple of dozen cartridges in bulk.

Information sources:
https://www.all4shooters.com/ru/glavnaya/tekhnika/2015-statyi/Magaziny-bolshoy-yemkosti-dlya-ruchnogo-avtomaticheskogo-oruzhiya/?p=2
http://zbroya.com.ua/mag/2000/2000-1/2000_1_4.htm
Materials from free sources
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  1. AlNick 26 October 2015 07: 12 New
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    For more modern light machine guns, which were already created under the intermediate cartridge, stores with a capacity of 75 rounds were developed (Soviet RPK caliber 7,62 mm)
    1. self-propelled 26 October 2015 11: 11 New
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      and like on 60 cartridges for "Kalashnikov"
    2. Civil 26 October 2015 18: 11 New
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      I wonder why there are no one-time shops ?!
      1. psiho117 26 October 2015 19: 56 New
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        Quote: Civil
        I wonder why there are no one-time shops ?!

        Why is there. Shotgun Jackhammer for example ...
        Further, a quote from one little-known site, authorship of a certain M. Popenker bully
        Two types of stores were provided for Jackhammer. The first type had ordinary chambers, designed for special reinforced cartridges of 12 caliber. After removing from the weapon, such a magazine could be freed from empty cartridges and equipped with cartridges again. The second type of store should be equipped in the factory, with gunpowder, shell (buckshot, bullet, etc.) and a capsule equipped directly in the drum, without shells. A fully-equipped drum ("Ammo Cassette") was hermetically sealed in plastic film and in this form was to be delivered to users. Before loading, the shooter had to rip off the plastic wrapper from the drum and load it into a weapon, and after using up all the charges, throw it away (or, if the situation allows, save for later returning to the factory for reloading). Based on such stores, Andersen also developed a special anti-personnel mine - Bear Trap (a bear trap), which was a fuse attached to the store. When it was fired, charges from all the chambers were fired simultaneously, creating the effect of a fragmentation mine with directional action.
        1. Lekov L 28 October 2015 10: 05 New
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          Concerning "a certain M.Popenker".
          I recommend:
          Mr Popenker, M.N. Milchev "World War II: Gunsmiths' War" M .: Yauza, Eksmo, 2009. Very informative, a very large amount of work, interesting even to a specialist, although in some places m. controversial.
          Sincerely ...
      2. prosto_rgb 27 October 2015 07: 08 New
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        Quote: Civil
        I wonder why there are no one-time shops ?!

        Yes, they are, as it were, all in wartime are considered disposable, at least in the parts of NATO that is exactly what is indicated. But, nevertheless, it is recommended to collect them, of course, if possible, and if not, then throw them into fresh air smile
      3. ProkletyiPirat 10 November 2017 00: 44 New
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        Quote: Civil
        I wonder why there are no one-time shops ?!

        In short, it is not effective.
        If in detail, then you need to look from two sides
        First on the manufacturer’s side, there is a huge benefit, because a one-time magazine provides better cartridge integrity especially if it is airtight (rejects and deviations from the norm in cartridge business are the biggest hemorrhoids and the most common problem of weapon malfunction). The only drawback with the finished magazine is the spring fatigue due to which the cartridge does not reach or warps in the magazine.
        Second on the part of the consumer, you would probably think that the "ready-made store" here is also very good (provided that the spring problem is solved), BUT in fact, with the exact opposite. Because very often different cartridges are loaded into one store. For example, mixing regular and armor-piercing or the most common option is mixing the main cartridge with tracer. For example, I once read the post of one mercenary, he mixed the main cartridge and added one or two tracer cartridges of different colors, he explained his idea like "I have no time to look at the transparent store! And so, the red tracer flew out, it means the store is already empty or schA empty, then you need to leave the position to reload ... ", well, at night \ in the evening he put another tracer every 1-2 rounds but a different color.
  2. bandabas 26 October 2015 07: 42 New
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    There are few cartridges, but you have to pay for everything. And in the literal and figurative sense :(
  3. KBR109 26 October 2015 08: 15 New
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    Mistake: there are not many rounds. They are either "few" or "few, lol but we won’t take it anymore. "
    1. self-propelled 26 October 2015 11: 08 New
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      Quote: KBR109
      Mistake: there are not many rounds. They are either "few" or "few, lol but we won’t take it anymore. "

      that's for sure. the main measure to know smile
      1. Colonel 26 October 2015 18: 47 New
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        Quote: self-propelled
        the main measure to know

        "measure" (Starorussk) - a unit of volume equal to 26,24 liters. Usually after this (recognition of the measure) they switch to such "large-capacity" stores lol
        1. Nikoha.2010 26 October 2015 20: 50 New
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          Quote: colonel
          switch to such "high-capacity" stores lol

          Thank you Valery for paying attention! hi I didn’t know my word about such a store to PM!
          1. gross kaput 26 October 2015 20: 58 New
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            And no one knew about him until "daddy muller" (not the same character, but rather well-known in the weapons Internet laughing ) didn’t pile it for fun on the knee from a tambourine from the PPSh and the PM store - so this is a fake old.
            1. Nikoha.2010 26 October 2015 21: 15 New
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              Quote: gross kaput
              so the fake is old.

              Thank you namesake, well then a little from the old days ... laughing
          2. Bad_gr 26 October 2015 23: 30 New
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            Quote: Nikoha.2010
            I didn’t know my word about such a store to PM!

            Glock-18
          3. 4thParasinok 31 October 2015 14: 35 New
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            Quote: Nikoha.2010
            Thank you Valery for paying attention! hi I didn’t know my word about such a store to PM!
            fool

            this is not a store for PM, but just such a joke. They hooked a drum from the PPSh to the store, or maybe they just stuck it in the neck, which is more likely.
            1. 4thParasinok 31 October 2015 15: 03 New
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              belay which are all offensive, however ... What to put down cons, learn to look carefully at the pictures first and understand the weapons.
              1. Bad_gr 31 October 2015 15: 47 New
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                Quote: 4-th Paradise
                What to put cons, learn first to look carefully at the pictures and understand weapons.

                And at the same time and read the comments of the posting photo, where it is written that this device has an author. There is also an article on this store (not in this topic, but you can find it if you wish), where its designer ("daddy muller") describes what tasks it took to solve, bringing this store to working condition.
      2. prosto_rgb 27 October 2015 07: 09 New
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        Quote: self-propelled
        the main measure to know

        We need more shops;)
        1. Aleksandr81 27 October 2015 18: 52 New
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          here is the unloading just
  4. tchoni 26 October 2015 09: 52 New
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    Due to all the problems listed in the article (by the way, plus. A good review), the solution to increasing the capacity of a regular store is seen in reducing the diameter of the sleeve to diameters close to the diameters of the bullet. A similar solution was used in m1 carabiner. But, at higher ammunition capacities, such a solution rests on the difficulties of extracting a spent cartridge case. Nevertheless, it is thought that with cartridge energies up to 1500 joules and a 5.45 - 6.5 mm cartridge, a solution can still be found. Otherwise, an alternative is shellless ammunition. But, with him, there are more questions than answers, in my opinion.
    For example, with a sleeve diameter of 7 mm and a caliber of 5.45 (against 11 existing cartridges), it is possible to actually increase the capacity of a standard magazine to 45–50 rounds, and increased capacity to 60–70, with some reduction in thickness and without significant structural complication
    1. Major_Vortex 26 October 2015 12: 04 New
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      Cartridgeless cartridges for hand-held automatic weapons have not yet gone out of the category of laboratory rabbits. Not a single army in the world has adopted such automatic weapons, although the development has already been a hundred years old by lunch. The Germans took a test batch of such assault rifles into service and the case died out. Lousy automation, fragile ammunition, exorbitant price of weapons ... - one cons. It is worth working with the liner materials, making the cartridges lighter while maintaining other advantages. But the rejection of the sleeve is a transition to the century before last. Where it is rational to refuse shells, they have already abandoned shells without noise and dust.
      The cartridge sleeve of 5,45 mm, for example, is very light. Disassemble and see its device. At the same time, this is a normal cartridge for a full-fledged combat weapon.
      1. tchoni 26 October 2015 13: 50 New
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        Regarding shellless ammunition, I say that this is a very difficult path and very foggy in its future. Although, DIFFERENT options are here. Let’s say, a burning sleeve and a convict capsule flying away with a bullet ... But this is from the field of scientific science fiction. But the improvement of the normal sleeve is a reality ..
      2. gladcu2 26 October 2015 20: 14 New
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        Major vortex

        When storing cartridges, the quality of the cartridge case is also important.

        The strength of the liner itself cannot be lowered. The separation of the bottom during the extraction of a burnt, contaminated sleeve, has not been canceled.

        By the way in the top photo. First store
        , Colt 1911. Then Thompson. Then an ultrasound.

        And the latter did not recognize.
    2. Forest 26 October 2015 15: 17 New
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      Could do it, but the defense departments on the spot will declare such an inventor an enemy of the people - they should knock out money for millions of new ammunition)
    3. serega.fedotov 26 October 2015 18: 32 New
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      Quote: tchoni
      For example, with a sleeve diameter of 7 mm and a caliber of 5.45 (against 11 existing cartridges), it is possible to actually increase the capacity of a standard magazine to 45–50 rounds, and increased capacity to 60–70, with some reduction in thickness and without significant structural complication

      You can also increase the length of the sleeve, and reduce the diameter, then you will not have to reduce the thickness of the walls of the sleeve. It is also possible to use a triangular section of the sleeve, due to a denser placement of cartridges in the store, there will be a significant increase in ammunition without increasing dimensions.
      Only the replacement of ammunition will cause such a crap ....
      For example, I’m not thinking that now it’s necessary to change the ammunition, let the gunsmiths rivet different systems, they’ll run around, and only when they work one hundred percent then start, otherwise it will work out like a “gyrojet” (sorry if I wrote incorrectly, I don’t have much English) - so many great reviews, beautiful justification, and as a result a bunch in a puddle!
      1. tchoni 26 October 2015 21: 31 New
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        Quote: serega.fedotov
        You can increase the length of the sleeve, and reduce the diameter, then you do not have to reduce the thickness of the walls of the sleeve.

        Here also troubles begin wink A long and cylindrical sleeve DEMANDS epic walls - otherwise it will be pressed against the chamber so that you cannot pull it out of it with any force ... (therefore, with such casings we mostly have pistol cartridges, not very powerful, not very long .) For an assault rifle, you will most likely have to make the sleeve a little on the cone, which will inevitably lead to an increase in the diameter of the sleeve and, all the same, the sleeve will be removed worse than a sleeve with a bottleneck.
        Therefore, all that mono can save on caliber 5.45 is a couple of millimeters. On 15 rounds it’s 3 * 15 = 45 mm (let’s save 3 mm - I’m not greedy - although it’s really difficult) 45/7 = 6 additional rounds in a row and 12 in a magazine - the result is a magazine from the PKK in standard dimensions. But, as the cartridges from such a cartridge will be removed - this secret is great. I think that this will reduce reliability.
        Quote: serega.fedotov
        For example, I’m not thinking that now it’s necessary to change the ammunition, let the gunsmiths rivet different systems, they’ll run around, and only when they work one hundred percent then start, otherwise it will work out like a “gyrojet” (sorry if I wrote incorrectly, I don’t have much English) - so many great reviews, beautiful justification, and as a result a bunch in a puddle!

        That is why, and due to the above reasons, they do not change it. Thoughts roam the mind.
        1. gross kaput 26 October 2015 22: 28 New
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          Quote: tchoni
          For an assault rifle, you will most likely have to make a sleeve a little on the cone, which will inevitably lead to an increase in the diameter of the sleeve and, all the same, the sleeve will be removed worse than a sleeve with a bottleneck.

          It will probably be a revelation for you that all automatic and rifle cases have a taper laughing to ensure extraction, a taper of 2-3 g is sufficient. for even such a small taper, even for a stuck sleeve, will require an axial shift of 1-2 mm for its further free extraction. Bottling affects another - so as not to write a lot - just read the page from the textbook.
          1. tchoni 27 October 2015 06: 43 New
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            No, not news, imagine. That is why I interpret that a lot, saving will not work
            1. gross kaput 27 October 2015 09: 25 New
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              Mdya you unfortunately did not understand anything sad and didn’t even bother to read the page sad but the ambition for three academicians is enough laughing
              Bottling is a consequence of ensuring not the necessary extraction but the required volume of the cartridge case and affects the dimensions of the magazine and weapons, a large bottle ratio (small cylinder liner length and large maximum diameter) - large transverse razieres of the magazine's receiver and bolt; small coefficient - small transverse dimensions but large long receiver and store. It does not affect anyone's extraction because all rifle-automatic cartridges have a taper which ensures extraction, because of this taper even the sleeves require a minimum axial shift - for example, for the Mauser 98 rifle, the sleeve is secured by sliding the cocking handle along the inclined jumper receiver and is expressed in axial mixing of 3 mm - which is enough with a margin even for heavily seized sleeves.
  5. Tankist_1980 26 October 2015 10: 27 New
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    Like. Definitely.
  6. igordok 26 October 2015 10: 39 New
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    Thank you for the article.
    Question. How were the MG-34 twin drum stores charged? With or without disassembly?
    To disassemble the magazine, unscrew the 10 screws. In a battle, it’s difficult.

    One of the instructions (of poor quality) depicts a hand that supposedly charges the store manually one at a time.
    1. Nikoha.2010 26 October 2015 20: 47 New
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      Alive smoking room. 2-drum magazine Beta C-Mag for 100 rounds, for the HK G36.
  7. Traveller 26 October 2015 11: 11 New
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    As for attaching the stores with electrical tape to each other, I heard that officers with real combat experience were not very welcome, and they tried to stop such amateur activity, since the stores were clogged with dirt, which accordingly led to misfires when firing. True or not, please enlighten?
    1. michell 26 October 2015 17: 02 New
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      Quote: Reisender
      As for attaching the stores with electrical tape to each other, I heard that officers with real combat experience were not very welcome, and they tried to stop such amateur activity, since the stores were clogged with dirt, which accordingly led to misfires when firing.


      In Soviet times, I watched the program "Serving the Soviet Union" with the participation of Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov. In the story, Kalashnikov visited a military unit, talked with the fighters about the features of the operation of the machine. One of the fighters just asked such a question (citing the example of the Afghan experience in pairing stores with electrical tape) - is it possible to make dovetail connectors on the side surfaces of stores or something similar to connect stores in pairs? Kalashnikov replied roughly as follows: “The machine is a very pollution-resistant mechanism. For example, I allow you to open the receiver cover and pour a handful of sand into the receiver - there will be no delay in firing - I guarantee you. But pairing stores, as you suggest, is categorically not, because in this case, dirt will fall on the cartridges in an open magazine, which will inevitably and guaranteedly lead to delays in firing. " I can not vouch for verbatim, but the meaning was just that.
      1. Traveller 26 October 2015 20: 04 New
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        Thanks, helpful
        1. 4thParasinok 31 October 2015 14: 55 New
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          this is more the case with stitching shops with their necks in different directions. But if in one direction (the third photo in the article), and even the dual stores are used only in battle, then it's okay. The Germans for the G-36 in the design of the stores added latches for connecting several pieces at once, at least ten at once. if true the owner will be able to carry such a crap lol
  8. Andrey77 26 October 2015 11: 20 New
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    I will put the article plus. But Captain evidence, this forum is not about boys gathering ...
    1. Alf
      Alf 26 October 2015 21: 07 New
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      Quote: Andrey77
      But Captain evidence, this forum is not about boys gathering ...

      Do you know about the Soviet T-39 tank? And I know, but because of this, I’m not saying that everyone around me is “boys”.
    2. gfs84 27 October 2015 12: 00 New
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      I will put the article plus. But Captain evidence, this forum is not about boys gathering ...


      Yes?..
      Are you absolutely sure?
      But I am sure that boys and girls are also present here.
      And let it be better, ”Large-capacity stores are interested in than“ weed ”or something else like that.
  9. _KM_ 26 October 2015 11: 44 New
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    The article is interesting, but it’s a pity that only straight-shot cartridges are examined. It is advisable to supplement the story with a story about "shops with a turn" - FN P90.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/FNP90MAG01.JPG/800px-F
    NP90MAG01.JPG
    1. Bad_gr 26 October 2015 23: 40 New
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      Quote: _KM_
      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/FNP90MAG01.JPG/800px-F
      NP90MAG01.JPG

  10. Leeder 26 October 2015 12: 14 New
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    Great review!
    Perhaps the topic of sleeveless stores remains. :)
  11. chunga-changa 26 October 2015 13: 15 New
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    Cartridge boxes in ribbons? Widely used and applied from "maxim", to today for.
    1. Nikoha.2010 26 October 2015 20: 31 New
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      Quote: chunga-changa
      Cartridge boxes in ribbons?

      And not just boxes ...
  12. Grigorievich 26 October 2015 15: 00 New
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    The Germans did not stuff stores until 32 cartridges for MPNUMX, and 40 because the spring quickly set, if not used immediately.
    I liked the article +
  13. Oladushkin 26 October 2015 15: 57 New
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    The article is wonderful! I learned a lot of interesting things, although I rather systematized them. Particularly pleased with the comrade's machine gun store. Sukhova is a store from a Lewis machine gun.
    By the way, there were 5 kopecks for the article. Veterans of the Great Patriotic War said that the store for PPSh should be refueled at 3 \ 4, otherwise the spring could misfire.
    1. Alf
      Alf 26 October 2015 21: 05 New
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      Quote: Oladushkin
      that the store to the PPSh needs to be refilled by 3/4, otherwise the spring could misfire-skew.

      I heard that not 71, but 68-69 rounds.
  14. xomaNN 26 October 2015 19: 31 New
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    Thanks to the author for the detailed material.
  15. By001261 26 October 2015 20: 03 New
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    Thanks learned a lot of new and interesting great article !!!
  16. Nikoha.2010 26 October 2015 20: 34 New
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    Yes, thanks to the author. I’ll add a little. The PU-1 machine gun with a high-capacity disk magazine
  17. Nikoha.2010 26 October 2015 20: 36 New
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    Machine gun PU-21, included magazine feed + belt feed.
  18. Mikros 26 October 2015 23: 17 New
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    Megaextreme
    1. gross kaput 27 October 2015 10: 41 New
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      just reincarnation of Shosh - but it’s not clear who designed it - is a student a dummy?
    2. TanakaKenshin 1 November 2015 21: 07 New
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      There is still such garbage:
      1. Rader 4 November 2015 20: 01 New
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        There is still such garbage:

        Well this "bullshit" is called Kim Jong-un laughing
        Well, if you are talking about stores at his guard, it seems to be screw screws, about which the article mentioned hi
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. moskowit 27 October 2015 21: 09 New
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    Very interesting, thanks. It is a pity it was not presented and not told with what tricks the disk store was charging for the DP (Degtyarev Infantry). It would be nice to continue about various tapes: rigid, canvas and steel ...
  21. moskowit 27 October 2015 21: 22 New
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    In one of the films about PPSh, not from the series “Weapons of Victory” or “Small Arms of the Great Patriotic War” they told and showed that PPSh was equipped with two drum magazines, which were debugged to adjoin a submachine gun directly at the factory. So not every store could approach any PCA ... I was very surprised by the information of this, about three years ago ... They say that PCA could be done in almost any workshop, the quality still suffered. The film shows that teenagers were involved in this work ... Yet impressive numbers. 6 000 000 PCA was released! How many shops? million 20 of different types?
    1. Colonel 27 October 2015 21: 41 New
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      Quote: moskowit
      not every store could fit any PPSh

      Come on. Not so long ago, in one on-duty unit, a screw rotor assembly was snapped to a Bison from an adjacent barrel, and the kids frolic after cleaning their weapons. Unfastened with the head of the department, crowbar and ..... (well, you know). Trunk release 2009.
    2. Alf
      Alf 27 October 2015 22: 14 New
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      Quote: moskowit
      on the assembly of PPSh with two drum shops,

      Three. One for PPSh and 2 to recharge.
  22. Nikoha.2010 28 October 2015 19: 20 New
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    Quote: igordok
    Question. How were the MG-34 twin drum stores charged?

    Igor Hello! Actually, this roulette is from aviation MG15-17. c \ The back cover is removed, and then as in the PPSh, only the cartridges are equipped with a bullet down. . Moreover, the cartridges are fed when shooting alternately! hi
    1. gross kaput 29 October 2015 00: 00 New
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      Quote: Nikoha.2010
      c \ The back cover is removed, and then as in the PPSh, only the cartridges are equipped with a bullet down. .

      Well, no, with the same success in the same way, removing the back cover, you can try to charge the RPK tambourine laughing , only on the trommel everything will be even sadder for two springs. Trommel are charged exclusively by the machine, though the first two three cartridges can be shoved with your hands
      1. gross kaput 29 October 2015 00: 04 New
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        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-nZT-Cspco
        In the first seconds, the charging process is clearly visible, there is also a "hidden" part - the axis of the levers are connected with the axes of the springs with the slots of the springs and when the lever is pressed, the springs are compressed - the same as the loading lever in the RPK tambourine, without this shaking even with the machine it is impossible to charge a tambourine.
        1. igordok 29 October 2015 22: 28 New
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          Quote: gross kaput
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-nZT-Cspco
          In the first seconds, the charging process is clearly visible, there is also a "hidden" part - the axis of the levers are connected with the axes of the springs with the slots of the springs and when the lever is pressed, the springs are compressed - the same as the loading lever in the RPK tambourine, without this shaking even with the machine it is impossible to charge a tambourine.

          Thank you for the answer and the video.
          Those. charging the store is not a quick matter, and during the battle it is better not to do this, but to have a supply of these charged stores.
          1. gross kaput 30 October 2015 11: 06 New
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            Quote: igordok
            Those. charging the store is not a quick thing,

            Well, as it were, and with charging the tape, not everything is so fast - especially if it is loose laughing
            Yes, and they wouldn’t carry automatic stores, they would be a dozen - it would be enough, 1-2 and B / C in packs - and easier and easier to shove laughing
            Well, with regards to the tromells, they were used mainly in the MG-15 aviation turret, there it was really important - for reloading the tape in an actively maneuvering aircraft is an extremely fun and developmental reaction and coordination laughing and the infantry increasingly gravitated toward the banal tape - on easel ones in separate boxes, on round round cans adjoining the receiver manually on 50 cartridge belts.
            1. igordok 30 October 2015 13: 54 New
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              I was interested in the use of MG-34 in tanks and other armored vehicles. After all, they used not tape, but shops. After all, the tanks did not switch to MG-42, which worked only with tapes. And in the tank you can carry shops with “yourself” a lot.

              Tell me, is it possible to refuel MG-34 shop without a machine?
  23. gross kaput 30 October 2015 22: 07 New
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    Quote: igordok
    Tell me, is it possible to refuel MG-34 shop without a machine?

    No, not really, unlike PPSh - where there is a drum stopper with a spring that allows you to fix the feeder at the beginning of the stream and the deep walls of the snail stream into which the cartridges are placed and not stacked, the trommel has no spring stopper and the streams only play in it the role of the guides is on one side of the tip of the bullet on the other bottom of the sleeve and it is simply not possible to put or place cartridges in them with a half-open magazine.
    Quote: igordok
    MG-34 in tanks and other armored vehicles. After all, they used not tape, but shops.

    Let's just say - I was not specifically interested in this topic, and the special literature usually does not specify the type of food - but for example, the photographs of those years PZ-1 has installed receiver covers for stores, and using the trommel involves replacing the receiver cover with your own, and using photographs The interiors of the Panther’s towers and the royal tiger have coaxial machine guns fitted with covers for the tape receiver, so it’s possible the MG-34 was registered in the Panzerwaffe due to the unification of armaments - in the first tank gunners they needed a lot less than the infantry, and secondly for example coaxial machine gun because of the closeness of a gun mask would not allow use protruding from both sides of the egg and had tape and gun at the wireless operator could use supply stores as a more convenient recharging in cramped and shaking in movement.
  24. aleks177 25 February 2016 13: 41 New
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    Quote: tchoni
    the solution to increasing the capacity of a regular store is seen in reducing the diameter of the sleeve to diameters close to the diameters of the bullet

    What contradicts the internal ballistics - the closer the volume of the sleeve to the ball, the more optimal the combustion of gunpowder. “short magnums” based on a very shortened sleeve of large diameter appeared exactly like that.