The Islamic State Underground War: Can Aviation Cope?

- “Islamic State” and “Al-Qaida” are terrorist organizations prohibited in the territory of the Russian Federation.


The Russian Ministry of Defense regularly reports on the destruction of underground bunkers and communications of Islamic State militants * and other terrorist organizations. Such messages are served almost as a critical blow to the enemy. But after all, the underground fortifications created by partisan forces during the recent local conflicts did not just cause an intolerable itch for the conventional war armies. They turned out to be a difficult goal for the bombers, forcing regular troops to create separate units specializing in combat operations underground to counter the "moles".

The Islamic State Underground War: Can Aviation Cope?

Underground tunnel

"Tunnel rats"

For the first time this unique squad appeared in the structure of the American army during the conflict in Vietnam. His fighters got the informal nickname "tunnel rats". As you can guess, the "rats" were fighting in underground communications dug by the Vietnamese, the number of which the Viet Cong and their allies brought to unimaginable limits.

The "underground troops" recruited mostly thin and low military personnel, because the Vietnamese burrows were very narrow in size. Armed with a 45 mm caliber pistol, a flashlight and "X-4" soldiers had to penetrate the underground passages and lay explosives in key communications or bunkers. Some sources reported the use of tear gas by grenades as a “rat”.


"Tunnel rats"
Howard C. Breedlove, SSG, Photographer; US Army Signal Corps

During the war, American bombers dropped almost seven million bombs on Vietnam, which is almost three times the number of projectiles dropped on Germany during World War II. It would seem that after the use of such firepower, all the underground passages should have turned into mass graves of the Vietnamese. But this did not happen and the struggle against structures of this kind by forces aviation It was recognized as ineffective. The success of the "tunnel rats" showed that the thin infantryman with the "C-4" copes with bunkers much better than the B-52 bomber.

It is worth noting that the image of the "tunnel rat" found its reflection in American cinema. In particular, in such well-known films as "Forrest Gump" and "Platoon".
Afghan qanats

Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan have repeatedly cursed this underground hydraulic system created by Afghan farmers. The qanats were much more spacious than the Vietnamese burrows. Their main function was water supply, but the Mujahideen found another use for them. Moving in the underground communications, to which a lot of “tributaries” were often added, dushmans managed to almost literally appear from nowhere behind the paratroopers' backs.

At first, the Soviets, like the Americans in Vietnam, tried to use aviation to fight qanats. Aircraft of the USSR Air Force used the bombs of the largest available capacity to try to fill up the underground passages, but as a result, they had to create a land unit for underground combat as part of the 40 Army.


Afghan soldiers at the entrance to the Qariz

Unlike the American military, the Soviet soldiers tried not to climb deep into the ground, leveling the modest range of sorties with a more powerful explosive charge. TNT did not regret the Soviet army - the explosives were placed in karizas with whole boxes.

Infantry flamethrowers were also widely used in the underground war. These are, first of all, LPO-50, and towards the end of the war, and the reactive Bumblebees.
Hardworking koreans

To understand the possible extent of the underground life of militants, you can again turn to stories. For example, during the confrontation of the North and South Koreans in 1950-1953, almost the entire Korean Peninsula was dug up. According to data from open sources, during this conflict, the parties dug up about 10 thousands of underground bunkers at a depth of 40-70 meters, and some command headquarters were built at much greater depths. Most notable is the length of Korean tunnels, reaching approximately 520 km. It is worth noting here that the length of the front line was in the 200 area of ​​kilometers. Air bombardments did not cause such fortifications any significant harm.
Palestine

A fairly well-developed network of underground tunnels and bunkers was built by Hamas fighters. According to the world media, under the Gaza Strip, they dug a whole underground city, the "arteries" of which diverge in Palestine, as well as in neighboring Egypt and Israel. The Israeli army is trying to fight these communications, but it does not achieve much success.


Hamas fighters in an underground tunnel

Even if it turns out to destroy the entrance to the underground structure, the main tunnel remains unscathed and new “gates” to it quickly appear in another place. Palestinians can also boast a fairly high-quality finish tunnels, Hamas attracts qualified professionals to their construction and widely uses reinforced concrete structures.

Shovels "faster" bombs


Military campaigns around the world have shown that one aircraft cannot cause significant damage to enemy underground communications. Yes, since the days of the “tunnel rats” a lot of water has flowed out and a whole number of air bombs have appeared in service with the air forces of the international coalition and Russian videoconferencing systems. And the number of bombers and attack aircraft involved in the operation against the IS * today cannot be compared with aviation groups during the Afghan and Vietnamese campaigns.


Adjustable aerial bomb KAB-1500

But on the territory of Syria, the war has been going on for almost five years, and all the parties in this slaughter all this time have been constantly drawing up new shelters. Participants in the conflict use entire parks of modern excavators to build a defensive line and create underground utilities. It is likely that right now the Al-Qaida excavator * is digging a new bunker near Idlib, and the captured IG * prisoners have dug up another kilometer of tunnels under the Syrian desert. Poor quality bunkers and aisles are simple and fast. It is likely that they are already in the thousands. Most of these communications are destroyed by concrete-fighting, and sometimes the usual high-explosive, bombs. But there are too few shells falling on them, and on the contrary, the militants have too many shovels and excavators.
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  1. corporal 24 October 2015 06: 46 New
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    Well now, geologists are also involved in solving the problem what
    1. GSH-18 24 October 2015 09: 01 New
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      Quote: Corporal
      At first, the Soviets, like the Americans in Vietnam, tried to use aviation to fight the kyariz.

      Yes, everything is solved much easier than it seems. Throw tear gas into holes (not prohibited by convention). Or pour water where possible. Cockroaches will climb out. Wait and take at the exit.
      1. Professor 24 October 2015 09: 09 New
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        Quote: GSH-18
        Yes, everything is solved much easier than it seems. Throw tear gas into holes (not prohibited by convention). Or pour water where possible. Cockroaches will climb out. Wait and take at the exit.

        Will not help. The Vietnamese made a "siphon" in the tunnels and they were not afraid of any gases. Water will not help either. No there is so much water.
        http://prytkovalexey.org/2014/09/04/040920142137/

        Underground Vietnamese tunnels Ku Chi
        1. GSH-18 24 October 2015 09: 20 New
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          Quote: Professor
          Will not help. The Vietnamese made a "siphon" in the tunnels and they were not afraid of any gases. Water will not help either. No there is so much water.

          I don’t think that all these holes are equipped with such devices. Probably not. According to this, my forecast: at first, gas and water will work EXCELLENT. And you can launch the explosive gas mixture and then detonate, in this case, none of your siphons will save.
          1. Professor 24 October 2015 09: 24 New
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            Quote: GSH-18
            I don’t think that all these holes are equipped with such devices. Probably not. According to this, my forecast: at first, gas and water will work EXCELLENT. And you can launch the explosive gas mixture and then detonate, in this case, none of your siphons will save.

            I repeat. Destroying tunnels is a matter of technology. The problem is finding them.

            PS
            The tunnel under the school or hospital will blow up how?
            1. GSH-18 24 October 2015 09: 28 New
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              Quote: Professor
              a tunnel under a school or hospital will you blow?

              See my comments above. We choose the appropriate method.
              1. atalef 24 October 2015 11: 34 New
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                Quote: GSH-18
                See my comments above. We choose the appropriate method.

                Which one
                1. EGOrkka 24 October 2015 18: 18 New
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                  atalef
                  Which one


                  suitable laughing
              2. igorka357 24 October 2015 13: 55 New
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                The professor, of course, is a minduk, and I don’t always agree with him, but he’s right here ... the tunnels are a problem and there’s a lot of gas and water ... that the Vietnamese could sit in the tunnels in the tunnels for up to a year, and then they climbed out understand where the hell ..
              3. gladcu2 24 October 2015 16: 25 New
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                GSh-18

                School toilet to score. Dressing tutu break. Watching half a liter and stick sausages for the weekend.
            2. i80186 24 October 2015 09: 39 New
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              Quote: Professor
              The tunnel under the school or hospital will blow up how?

              We remove schoolchildren or patients, and then do it like this.
              This is about rocket mines in Bamut in 1996.
              In total, 2,5 tons of special explosives were laid down for the explosion, in terms of TNT the equivalent would be 3,5 tons. The charges laid in all the found entrances, ventilation holes, shafts, wells, even in the hatches 20 to 20 centimeters. A total of 24 points of initiation, as sappers say. 24 explosions thundered simultaneously. A "mushroom", similar to an atomic one, rose. Hacked and swelled the earth around, the ceilings collapsed, completely blocked the entrances, the armored partitions 15 cm thick knocked out completely. Who basked at the bottom of the fire, stayed there forever ...(C)
              A couple of three such operations, and they will stop climbing underground.
              Another striking example is the actions of the Germans in Adzhimushkaysky quarries and Odessa.
              1. Professor 24 October 2015 09: 40 New
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                Quote: i80186
                We remove schoolchildren or patients, and then do it like this.

                Onishedets and under mosques dig holes. Will we blow up mosques?
                1. i80186 24 October 2015 09: 54 New
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                  Quote: Professor
                  Onishedets and under mosques dig holes. Will we blow up mosques?

                  Well, the Syrians are mostly Muslims, even if they decide it is worth calling out or simply starving them, as the Germans did. Again, here is the abundance of mosques I do not see in the photo.
                  1. Professor 24 October 2015 10: 03 New
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                    Quote: i80186
                    Well, the Syrians are all Muslims, even if they decide it is worth calling out or just starving them, as the Germans did.

                    Not all Syrians are Muslims. There are Christians, Druze and even Alawites (Muslims drinking alcohol?).

                    Quote: i80186
                    Again, here is the abundance of mosques I do not see in the photo.

                    A lot and do not. One is enough to convict you of "the destruction of Islamic shrines."

                    Quote: GSH-18
                    Dear, well, do you read so carelessly? You have to chew and repeat everything. Well, look (this is just my vision, specialists will naturally do better), we have seismic sensors, which prevents them from dropping them from a helicopter, for example, or shooting a "garland" from a special gun ??? Further, the control detonation of the special charge (s) and the voile-picture of the section already on your laptop

                    Well, if we dream and fantasize, then this is a completely different matter. I suggest X-raying the Earth. We put a source in Australia, and from the side of Syria we deploy a network of satellite detectors and shine through the Earth and through the voil-picture of the section already on your laptop. laughing
                    1. i80186 24 October 2015 10: 09 New
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                      Quote: Professor
                      Not all Syrians are Muslims. There are Christians, Druze and even Alawites (Muslims drinking alcohol?).

                      That's the news today. Did not read? http://lenta.ru/news/2015/10/24/leopard/
                      And here is the old news. http://newsru.co.il/mideast/04jul2015/mosque8005.html
                      1. atalef 24 October 2015 11: 37 New
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                        Quote: i80186
                        That's the news today. Did not read?

                        And now what?
                2. renics 24 October 2015 14: 33 New
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                  However, I must intervene to end your dispute; for this, it is not necessary to do what was suggested above. The corporal proposed to involve geologists in solving this problem. In part, he is right, especially in the defense industry there are developments of the best GPR and geoscanners that help in finding places for laying mines, the location of underground tunnels, caches, dugouts, undermines and warehouses at great depths. Good results are shown by complex devices using georadar technologies and induction, the so-called "METAL-RADAR".
                  METAL-RADAR devices can be both portable and with possible mounting on unmanned aircraft. Depth of object detection depending on the model: from 0,1 m to 100 m. Some types of equipment have the function of constructing a three-dimensional model of the object and the ability to work from a height of up to 20 meters. Having chanted a vast territory and making maps of underground tunnels. You can completely block all the moves and exits, thereby depriving the terrorists of everything they need to fight and survive.
              2. atalef 24 October 2015 11: 35 New
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                Quote: i80186
                We remove schoolchildren or patients, and then do it like this.

                Let's stop cleaning schoolchildren and patients, what should be done for this? And then already - there will be no problems
                1. i80186 24 October 2015 14: 53 New
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                  Quote: atalef
                  Let's stop cleaning schoolchildren and patients, what should be done for this? And then already - there will be no problems

                  There are many examples of this. Beirut 1982 is probably closest to you.
            3. gladcu2 24 October 2015 16: 24 New
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              Professor

              In my opinion there are principles of the search for voids at acceptable depths. In road construction. Well, if the mine detector is looking at 3 m.

              On Amazon you can see.
            4. Jan Ivanov 25 October 2015 10: 56 New
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              Here the gas will help))
          2. gladcu2 24 October 2015 16: 20 New
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            GSh-18

            Gas must be heavier than air. And the ventilation in the tunnel will favor the spread. Water is too laborious to deliver. And the gas, the tank was thrown into the hole and left.

            But on the other side. To pick a hole with a shovel, yes with the risk of collapses, and in a tactically necessary place. This is respect for the partisans. The author here in vain responds poorly in comparing shovels and bombs with shells. This does not seem to be fair.
        2. Amurets 24 October 2015 09: 23 New
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          How many centuries has been underground and how many methods have been developed to counter-fight. In my opinion, this is a "shell and armor fight" and there will be no winner.
        3. Vadim237 24 October 2015 13: 58 New
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          Against such tunnels, liquefied gas bombs and a smart fuse are needed.
        4. Nikoha.2010 24 October 2015 19: 23 New
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          Oleg [professor] thanks for the link!
        5. max702 25 October 2015 01: 58 New
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          This is not the right approach. it is necessary from an engineering point of view, here in the picture the back is drawn, and if you seal it and apply GREATER pressure? You tell me that there’s where there’s where to leak now, so there are options .. the whole question is how much is NECESSARY .. OUR people are quirky and cunning, when it is really necessary and tell at least some fairy tales if the Arabs come to this confrontation (state Israel is proof of that). Once again, the main question is the question of necessity, all this can be solved, and a lot has changed since Vietnam.
      2. atalef 24 October 2015 11: 32 New
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        Quote: GSH-18
        and everything is solved much easier than it seems. Throw tear gas into holes (not prohibited by convention). Or pour water where possible. Cockroaches will climb out. Wait and take at the exit.

        Well, for this you need to solve 3 small problems
        1. Find tunnels
        2. To clear the entire territory adjacent to them
        3 Pull up water or tear crying gas.
        And for this it is necessary ... to enter the cities.
        Let's start solving these 3 problems, and then
        Quote: GSH-18
        . Wait and take at the exit.
        1. Rivares 24 October 2015 16: 49 New
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          Quote: atalef
          Well, for this you need to solve 3 small problems
          1. Find tunnels
          2. To clear the entire territory adjacent to them
          3 Pull in water or tear gas.
          And for this it is necessary ... to enter the cities.

          Our ancestors coped with the bandera, we can cope with similar diggers))
        2. Russian jacket 26 October 2015 16: 20 New
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          I have a question. Atalef, and how in Israel there is a struggle with such holes. I'm just curious. hi
      3. renics 24 October 2015 13: 19 New
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        Quote: GSH-18
        Quote: Corporal
        At first, the Soviets, like the Americans in Vietnam, tried to use aviation to fight the kyariz.

        Yes, everything is solved much easier than it seems. Throw tear gas into holes (not prohibited by convention). Or pour water where possible. Cockroaches themselves climb out. Wait and take at the exit.

        War and cruelty are inseparable. The concept of "humanism" somehow does not fit with them. Therefore, the phrase "Convention on inhumane weapons" cannot but arouse suspicion. In this case, you can ask what weapons are considered humane? No matter what, all weapons are for killing. Here is present in this case the highest degree of hypocrisy. Take for example the prohibition of torture.
        Subject of prohibition: intentional homicide, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, intentional infliction of grievous suffering or serious injury, damage to the health of a prisoner of war. The main prohibition document: Geneva Convention (III) on the Treatment of Prisoners of War (Geneva, August 12, 1949) Entered into force: October 21, 1950. Ratified the states (as of January 2012): 194
        Additional Prohibitory Documents: Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, 1984. Islamists torture torture without any restrictions, which they only aim at revenge and intimidation. Without thinking that cruelty will give rise to retaliatory cruelty, this time to those who have already been captured by their own. What puts them themselves as violators is illegal. This means that prohibitive measures themselves cannot be applied to them. But some prohibitions apply only to civilians. Napalm, Protocol III makes the use of napalm illegal, however ... only against civilians. In addition, it should be noted that only about a hundred states of the world, including Russia, signed Protocol III. The United States joined the protocol with a reservation, reserving the right to attack with military incendiary weapons located in the midst of "civilian crowds." So, an international position should be worked out here on the tactics of fighting this radical phenomenon, but this does not happen because some countries, like the USA and their minions, use these madmen for their crawl in the geopolitical struggle for world domination.
      4. gladcu2 24 October 2015 16: 14 New
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        GSh-18

        And water, from where and with what will you carry?
      5. The comment was deleted.
    2. Mujahiddin777 25 October 2015 22: 04 New
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      My uncle is a veteran of the Afghan war. He talked about the use of the USSR Air Force against the "cave" Dushman some gas bombs. Gas quickly spread through caves and holes, after which detonation occurred and burned out almost everything. Then when the United States realized that they could lose the war, these bombs were banned by some convention ...
  2. ewgen 24 October 2015 06: 52 New
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    Quote: Corporal
    Well now, geologists are also involved in solving the problem what


    And diggers with miners. laughing
  3. sa-ag 24 October 2015 06: 58 New
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    Something the film “Remember All” surfaced in memory with the mine shields there :-)
  4. Professor 24 October 2015 07: 31 New
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    The Israeli army is trying to fight these communications, but it does not achieve much success.

    The problem is not destruction, but intelligence. Famous tunnels are destroyed quite easily, but go and know where the rest are.


    Well now, geologists are also involved in solving the problem

    Already. And geologists with GPR, and diggers, and dogs, and robots.


    1. corporal 24 October 2015 08: 18 New
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      Professor, it seems there was information about some kind of new GPR, which recently appeared at you. Can you tell me?
      1. Professor 24 October 2015 08: 24 New
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        Quote: Corporal
        Professor, it seems there was information about some kind of new GPR, which recently appeared at you. Can you tell me?

        They wrote that they had found technical solutions for finding tunnels. Details were not reported. request
        1. GSH-18 24 October 2015 09: 12 New
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          Quote: Professor
          Quote: Corporal
          Professor, it seems there was information about some kind of new GPR, which recently appeared at you. Can you tell me?

          They wrote that they had found technical solutions for finding tunnels. Details were not reported. request

          And what’s new here, I don’t understand ??? A similar device is used in geo-search for a hundred years at lunch! Itself was the case, he worked with such a technique. Allows viewing to a depth of 50-60 meters, depending on the soil. It looks like a thick wire with connectors for sensors that stick into the ground after a certain distance. The wire itself is stuck into the recording device. Then the most interesting thing: you take a canoe and a sledgehammer (a canoe is an iron heavy object, it is laid on the ground) and next to each sensor, on a command from the operator, you hit a sledgehammer with a canoe. An impact seismic wave reflecting from soil layers with different densities draws a beautiful picture of the section on the device screen. AND ALL CASES. Look for your tunnels for health. Everything has been invented before the Jews. yes
          1. Professor 24 October 2015 09: 18 New
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            Quote: GSH-18
            Then the most interesting thing: you take a canoe and a sledgehammer (a canoe is an iron heavy object, it is laid on the ground) and next to each sensor, on a command from the operator, you hit a sledgehammer with a canoe.

            The thing is that to do what you propose is necessary in the densely populated Gaza swarming with their children substituting their soldiers under sniper and mortar fire. Tunnels must be detected remotely. They did this before with airplanes. What has been done now, I do not know.
            1. GSH-18 24 October 2015 09: 26 New
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              Quote: Professor
              Quote: GSH-18
              Then the most interesting thing: you take a canoe and a sledgehammer (a canoe is an iron heavy object, it is laid on the ground) and next to each sensor, on a command from the operator, you hit a sledgehammer with a canoe.

              The thing is that to do what you propose is necessary in the densely populated Gaza swarming with their children substituting their soldiers under sniper and mortar fire. Tunnels must be detected remotely. They did this before with airplanes. What has been done now, I do not know.

              I have now described the civil work tool that we have been using for a long time. I do not think that it will be difficult for military specialists to adapt this device for military use, having achieved the specified performance characteristics.
              1. Professor 24 October 2015 09: 31 New
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                Quote: GSH-18
                I have now described the civil work tool that we have been using for a long time. I do not think that it will be difficult for military specialists to adapt this device for military use, having achieved the specified performance characteristics.

                Yeah. When clearing a city where fire is being fired at you from each slit, you "take a canoe and a sledgehammer (a canoe is an iron heavy object, is laid on the ground) and next to each sensor, on the command of the operator, you hit a sledgehammer with a canoe".
                1. GSH-18 24 October 2015 09: 47 New
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                  Quote: Professor
                  Yeah. When clearing a city where fire is being fired at you from each slit, you "take a canoe and a sledgehammer (a canoe is an iron heavy object, is laid on the ground) and next to each sensor, on the command of the operator, you hit a sledgehammer with a canoe".

                  Dear, well, do you read so carelessly? You have to chew and repeat everything. Well, look (this is just my vision, specialists will naturally do better), we have seismic sensors, which prevents them from dropping them from a helicopter, for example, or shooting a "garland" from a special gun ??? Further, the control detonation of the special charge (s) and the voile-picture of the section already on your laptop request
                  1. atalef 24 October 2015 11: 48 New
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                    Quote: GSH-18
                    We have seismic sensors, what prevents them from dropping them from a helicopter, for example, or shooting a "garland" from a special gun ???

                    Nothing interferes.
                    As it does not interfere - they are going to collect them wink
                    By the way, what is a special cannon, and as a matter of fact (as I understand it) already assembled, tested and adopted, this is a garland of seismic sensors.
              2. atalef 24 October 2015 11: 46 New
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                Quote: GSH-18
                I have now described the civil work tool that we have been using for a long time.

                Tried - it does not work with 100% result. Otherwise, the tunnels from Gaza to Israel would have been found without problems
            2. gladcu2 24 October 2015 16: 34 New
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              Professor

              Why in Gaza? Let them do what they want and do for themselves. You have built a fence from the children.
          2. renics 24 October 2015 15: 01 New
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            Read the primitive and see the photo above.
            Georadar U-Explorer. Geophysical exploration using GPR equipment to a depth of 100 meters. They have the ability to connect up to 12 antennas at the same time, they also have the ability to connect depth antennas GEKKO 80 and GEKKO 60, in static and bistatic mode.
            GPR allows in a static mode to receive a radarogram up to 40 meters, in a bistatic mode up to 80 meters. This scanning technology allows you to find voids, flooding, large objects and foundations of old buildings, which is very important for archaeologists, builders, geologists and search teams.
            Georada and antenna data can be used for searching from heights of up to 20 meters.
            Well, what analogues are used for military purposes, there is no information.
        2. Amurets 24 October 2015 09: 18 New
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          The geolocation was used to search for the remains of buildings and other archaeological objects on the territory of the Albazin fortress in the Amur region. With it, many objects were found, but I do not know the capabilities of this geolocation.
        3. atalef 24 October 2015 11: 44 New
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          Quote: Professor
          They wrote that they had found technical solutions for finding tunnels. Details were not reported.

          the most real thing that Egypt did was dig a ditch along the entire length of the border with Gaza and flood it.
          1. pv1005 24 October 2015 20: 33 New
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            Do not specify the depth of the moat? And that the depth of the tunnel below the depth of the moat can not be?
        4. gladcu2 24 October 2015 16: 32 New
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          Professor

          You are just like Stirlitz, you are talking in riddles.

          Road builders will be surprised that their military equipment has been classified.
      2. atalef 24 October 2015 11: 44 New
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        Quote: Corporal
        Professor, it seems there was information about some kind of new GPR, which recently appeared at your place.

        When we talk about Gaza, then this is a problem much simpler than what we have to face in Syria
        1Gas - sandy soil, tunnels max depth 25-30m
        2.Gas is only 65 kmnva 20 and the tunnels go either to Egypt or Israel
        3. The agents are established
        4. Israel is trying to limit the supply of materials for their laying (in particular concrete)
        ... And with all this, Israel faced a huge problem of both their destruction and detection (and in this we are somehow more advanced than other countries)
        so
        1. Detection
        2.Technical equipment
        3. Cleaning the area around.
        4. Units trained to fight in tunnels
        Without fulfilling all the previous conditions. the fight against the tunnels is not real,
        1. BARKHAN 25 October 2015 11: 40 New
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          And it seems to me that without sweeping inside the territory it will not work at all. Yes, inhumane, but they did the whole story. A living, implacable enemy ... for a long time. If possible, you can fill the entrances with concrete and undermine and collapse the entrances. say demons.
          The whole problem is the ethics of a civilized man. He wants to act in a civilized manner with an enemy who cares about all these tendernesses. And this is not only about the Jews ... The party that uses more violence wins the war. This is a fact.
          And victory in the BV will go to anyone who goes to the goal at all costs. I have long noticed that all peacekeeping efforts there are regarded as weakness and lose their meaning. There will never be peace.
    2. region58 24 October 2015 11: 15 New
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      Quote: Professor
      The problem is not destruction, but intelligence. Famous tunnels are destroyed quite easily, but go and know where the rest are.

      Perhaps they are also from utilities (sewerage, etc.) somehow it is necessary to distinguish? Or is everything arranged differently there (there is probably no stormwater and heating)?
      1. Professor 24 October 2015 11: 19 New
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        Quote: region58
        Perhaps they are also from utilities (sewerage, etc.) somehow it is necessary to distinguish? Or is everything arranged differently there (there is probably no stormwater and heating)?

        Fortunately for us in Gaza, nobody really managed to build such communications. Those that Israel created have already deteriorated and every winter the feces are flooded with Gaza, and with human casualties.

  5. fsps 24 October 2015 07: 33 New
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    Powerful infrasound emitters could be quite effective.
    1. atalef 24 October 2015 11: 50 New
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      Quote: fsps
      Powerful infrasound emitters could be quite effective.

      good
      Better yet, revive Ivan the Terrible
      He generally spoke
      - I’m forgiven (the moderators will forgive the words you won’t throw words out of) - I see right through.
      1. stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 12: 14 New
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        Quote: atalef
        - I’m forgiven (the moderators will forgive the words you won’t throw words out of) - I see right through.

        According to MANY information, Peter the Great said this when he invented the X-ray machine .... laughing
        In fact, we must pay tribute to the "digging tunnels" - the idea is time-consuming, but effective. It was proved in World War II when the Germans corrupted and walled up the entrances to the catacombs of Odessa and the Adzhimushkaya quarry. But this happened on the occupied territory, and not on the front line.
        The only option is to free the territory of OVER with tunnels, with the subsequent control of inputs and outputs.
        1. atalef 24 October 2015 12: 21 New
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          Quote: stalkerwalker
          Peter the Great said about MOTO information when he invented the X-ray machine


          There are 2 men in the Hermitage, they see an excursion ahead. they clung to her and hear
          tour guide
          - In front of you is the skeleton of Peter the 1st at the age of 3 years, let's go further
          Before you is the skeleton of Peter the 1st at the age of 18, let's go further
          Before you is the skeleton of the deceased Peter
          - the men are so perplexed, but what did Peter have 3 skeletons?
          eks - where are you from?
          -From Voronezh (hello Banshee !!!)
          - ex. - well, bring it to your Voronezh, Chukchi comrades, follow me!

          Which skeleton will we choose?
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          In fact, we must pay tribute to the "digging tunnels" - the idea is time-consuming, but effective

          And everyone here thinks that Neanderthals fight with clubs there
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          The only option is to free the territory of OVER with tunnels, with the subsequent control of inputs and outputs.

          well hi
      2. corporal 24 October 2015 12: 17 New
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        Atalef, and what is the inferiority of the proposal
        Quote: fsps
        powerful emitters of infrasound.
        ?
        1. Kaiten 24 October 2015 12: 31 New
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          Quote: Corporal
          Atalef, and what is the inferiority of the proposal
          Quote: fsps
          powerful emitters of infrasound.?

          The idea is great, as far as I know, the new tunnel determinants use it, but on a few other principles.
        2. igorka357 24 October 2015 14: 05 New
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          Yes, there was nothing to say, and showed off .. my minus is already there!
      3. igorka357 24 October 2015 14: 04 New
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        You are just scoffing now, but why ..))?
  6. Steppe 24 October 2015 07: 38 New
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    winked Hmm, an occasion to think about the invention of a new weapon that can successfully wet bandits even underground.
  7. K-50 24 October 2015 08: 10 New
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    They need to be poisoned there like cockroaches!
    But! Since BWA is forbidden, it is possible with carbon dioxide, it is not fighting gas, it is heavier than air, and therefore it will displace oxygen for breathing, it is not noticeable, it cannot be diagnosed to a dangerous concentration and loss of consciousness and death will occur unexpectedly. Otherwise, if you try differently, many human victims will be. And these are no longer people, since they are opposing themselves to normal human values.
    1. corporal 24 October 2015 08: 33 New
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      Quote: K-50
      They need to be poisoned there like cockroaches!

      As rightly noted above:
      Quote: Professor
      The problem is not destruction, but intelligence.

      You need to learn how to find, and you can destroy it with a simple explosive, and preferably with a volume-detonating ammunition.
    2. Kaiten 24 October 2015 08: 49 New
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      Quote: K-50
      But! Since BOV is forbidden, it is possible with carbon dioxide, it is not fighting, it is heavier than air, and therefore it will displace oxygen for breathing, it is not noticeable,

      The very news that Jews use gases (no matter what’s non-combat, cyclone B, also non-combat gas) to poison the Palestinians, will cause a flurry of indignation in the world. You forget that Israel is a special country and in the world they treat us differently from everyone else.
      1. GSH-18 24 October 2015 09: 40 New
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        Quote: Kaiten
        The very news that Jews use gases (no matter what’s non-combat, cyclone B, also non-combat gas) to poison the Palestinians,

        What's the problem? Do you disperse demonstrations and performances with water cannons and tear gas? Accelerate. So in the “tunnel” case, no one forbids using the same tools.
        1. Kaiten 24 October 2015 10: 23 New
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          Quote: GSH-18
          What's the problem? Do you disperse demonstrations and performances with water cannons and tear gas? Accelerate. So in the “tunnel” case, no one forbids using the same tools.

          All countries of the world use tear gas, and the use of gas in tunnels will be typical only for Israel. Immediately in the media there will be unnecessary associations, such as Jews strangled with gas 70 years ago, and now they themselves use it to turn tunnels into improvised gas chambers. You don’t think of what ethical pressure the army is subjected to, and therefore it is forced to use all sorts of methods that people from Russia and the USA (communicating with both) seem stupid and unnecessary, for example, a warning system for building residents during an air strike, limiting the use of artillery and multiple launch rocket systems, etc.
          In general, I like the method of the Egyptians, they dug a canal along the border, filled it with sea water. Water seeps into the tunnels and they fall off.
          1. GSH-18 24 October 2015 10: 48 New
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            Quote: Kaiten
            In general, I like the method of the Egyptians, they dug a canal along the border, filled it with sea water. Water seeps into the tunnels and they fall off.


            Well, great solution. Apply.
            You can still fill the contents of the OSES machines in these tunnels, immediately cockroaches will climb up!
            1. atalef 24 October 2015 11: 53 New
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              Quote: GSH-18
              You can still fill the contents of the OSES machines in these tunnels, immediately cockroaches will climb up!

              The Egyptians used - did not help.
              Count how much shit you need to fill in the 3 km long tunnel that buses used to drive?
        2. atalef 24 October 2015 11: 52 New
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          Quote: GSH-18
          What's the problem? Do you disperse demonstrations and performances with water cannons and tear gas? Accelerate. So in the “tunnel” case, no one forbids using the same tools.

          Leave the tunnels when you get to them. there is no problem
          the question is something else
          1 Discover
          2.Clean territory
          3. go inside and make sure that they do not sit there in gas masks and do not sing songs for the glory of Allah.
      2. K-50 24 October 2015 11: 34 New
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        Quote: Kaiten
        The very news that Jews use gases

        They made fun, honestly! laughing
        Carbon dioxide is practically NOT DETECTABLE!
        The fact of applying it, the more it is not possible to prove!
        Who will indicate the true reason why there is no oxygen left below for breathing? Maybe the terror themselves exhaled everything? laughing
        If you do not rub your tongue and cover it as a military operation, who will find out?
      3. igorka357 24 October 2015 14: 06 New
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        Yes, speak frankly ... we are all local here ..))
  8. Monster_Fat 24 October 2015 08: 15 New
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    There is a good film about the war in the tunnels "Tunnels of Death" in our box office, it was called "Tunnel Rats" http://www.kinopoisk.ru/film/279727/
    However, the underground war in classical form was widely represented during the First World War, the echoes of that war are constantly appearing now in the fields of Flanders, France, etc., in the form of appearing failures in the place of underground passages and bunkers, and sometimes with explosions laid back at that time. and not working "horns". In France, there is a special unit that searches and clears the dungeons left over from the Great War, there is a very interesting series of films about the work of this unit and what finds they make in the dungeons of that era.
  9. Amurets 24 October 2015 08: 44 New
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    As long as civilized humanity exists, so much underground war is fought. As soon as walls and towers appeared, undermines and mines appeared. You should not think that mines are necessarily explosives. In ancient times, under the trenches under the foundation of the tower they put backwater and when the amount of backwater was enough to get the wall collapsed or they simply set fire to their towers. This is not my idea. There are books by Yakovlev Victor, American Mitchell on fortification, and this method is given there. So the underground war with all its moves, mines and other bells and whistles has been waged since ancient times. A good mine war is described in Stepanova in the second part of Port Arthur. Moreover, this is not fiction, but real facts.
  10. Dragon-y 24 October 2015 09: 04 New
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    Acetylene generator at the entrance, shake the gas there longer, then undermine the checker ...
    1. GSH-18 24 October 2015 09: 58 New
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      Acytelen is lighter than air. But if the pressure is good, it will inflate to the bottom. And then quickly topple and set fire, then, in principle, a dick is not sickly lol
      1. Kaiten 24 October 2015 12: 25 New
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        Quote: GSH-18
        Acytelen is lighter than air. But if the pressure is good, it will inflate to the bottom. And then quickly topple and set fire, then, in principle, a dick is not sickly

        Acetylene is an expensive gas, it’s cheaper to pump the methane-butane mixture, methane is lighter than air, butane is heavier. Such a mixture will get into all the holes. True, one shot from 3-4 km from a granotometre at a tanker of such a gas tanker will make the profession of its operator one of the most dangerous - after all, gas will be injected underground in the combat zone.
    2. Vadim237 24 October 2015 14: 04 New
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      Monsoons are needed then all tunnels will be flooded, militants will crawl out like earthworms.
  11. Reptiloid 24 October 2015 09: 09 New
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    For me, the topic is little known. Thanks a lot to the Author for the article. Also, the comments are informative.
  12. MATROSKIN-53 24 October 2015 09: 16 New
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    After the Second World War there were such "forest brothers" in the Baltic. They also hid in holes. But the music did not last long, the ball did not last long ... These bastards will also be destroyed. It's a question of time...
  13. fider 24 October 2015 09: 49 New
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    Egyptians pour shit into the tunnels of Hamas. Very effective.
    1. GSH-18 24 October 2015 10: 00 New
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      Quote: fider
      Egyptians pour shit into the tunnels of Hamas. Very effective.

      laughing It's cruel!
      1. Hello 24 October 2015 10: 13 New
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        Quote: GSH-18
        Quote: fider
        Egyptians pour shit into the tunnels of Hamas. Very effective.

        laughing It's cruel!

        But valid good
    2. Bijo 24 October 2015 11: 54 New
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      Quote: fider
      Egyptians pour shit into the tunnels of Hamas. Very effective.

      Shit pork? smile
    3. atalef 24 October 2015 11: 57 New
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      Quote: fider
      Egyptians pour shit into the tunnels of Hamas. Very effective.

      No, it didn’t help.
      Egypt intends to expand the buffer zone on the border with the Gaza Strip, for which about ten thousand houses located in the vicinity of the border town of Rafiah will be destroyed, the Cursor reports.

      According to Palestinian media, in order to combat the tunnels between Gaza and the Sinai, it is planned to expand the buffer zone to one and a half kilometers, and in the future, possibly, to five. In addition, to combat the tunnels, it is planned to dig a water channel.

      Recall that the creation of the buffer zone began in February 2014. Initially, it was supposed to reach 500 meters, but after a series of terrorist attacks against the military, it was decided to expand it.

      Note, to destroy more than 10t of houses, on your own territory, to resettle people, expand the buffer zone to 5 km and dig a channel - and all to fight the tunnels and at the same time ... no one shoots or fights at them
      And now. Something like that - but in Syria, when - they shoot at the children.
  14. androv 24 October 2015 10: 13 New
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    Quote: Amurets
    The geolocation was used to search for the remains of buildings and other archaeological objects on the territory of the Albazin fortress in the Amur region. With it, many objects were found, but I do not know the capabilities of this geolocation.


    Well, if, as you say, you have found many objects, then the opportunities are not bad.
  15. donavi49 24 October 2015 10: 36 New
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    There Arkhar (Babakhi Islamists friends of Nusryat) staged a tank-mechanized strike in the north of Hama. Aviation overslept - lost two urban settlements (Markaba and Lakhai) and reached the nodal city Morek.





    In the battles with IS near Hama (another place east of Hama) - where the road to Aleppo was cut off by a sudden strike by the Caliphate, where for almost a year there was no activity at all, it seems that the regular troops of Iran were used for the first time. Officially fulfilling its duty, a soldier of Mohammad Jahromi 55 of the Iranian Army parachute division was killed.
  16. cniza 24 October 2015 12: 18 New
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    [quote = Amur] As long as civilized humanity exists, so much is an underground war.


    And plus every war brought and brings improvement.
  17. lexx2038 24 October 2015 14: 14 New
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    Scary to me underground. I crawl cautiously in the cellar, and then they throw bombs ... God forbid.
  18. akm8226 24 October 2015 14: 22 New
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    Citizens - no need to fight underground passages. We must fight with those who climb them. With their supply. A week after the end of the products, all the rats will crawl out themselves.
  19. xin-l 24 October 2015 16: 46 New
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    Quote: akm8226
    Citizens - no need to fight underground passages. We must fight with those who climb them. With their supply. A week after the end of the products, all the rats will crawl out themselves.

    Valuable remark destroying food um trucking. Nobody has yet learned to grow potatoes underground. The main thing is to know where they will get out, reconnaissance reconnaissance and reconnaissance again.
  20. sagitch 24 October 2015 18: 18 New
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    Pouring sandy soil with water is the monkey's work, at least pour the sea there.
    I join the dreamers, can I pour dry ice, more? Carbon dioxide is heavier than air, let them sleep in peace.
    1. Vadim237 24 October 2015 19: 56 New
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      The militants probably have gas masks, so carbon dioxide will not help here, but liquefied gas bombs will be very effective - a gas explosion in tunnels is a destructive thing.
      1. Rumata 24 October 2015 20: 23 New
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        Quote: Vadim237
        The militants probably have gas masks, so carbon dioxide will not help here, but liquefied gas bombs will be very effective - a gas explosion in tunnels is a destructive thing.

        They are difficult to detect. You enter a brigade of soldiers into a city the size of Grozny, for example, and under it dozens of kilometers of tunnels that even without snipers and “forays into the rear” to find with scanners will take weeks.
        1. Vadim237 25 October 2015 12: 31 New
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          I’m not talking about discovery, but about the destruction of tunnels I’m writing, and to detect tunnels we need special means of sensing earth layers for voids from a satellite or from an airplane, now technology allows creating such devices.
      2. corporal 25 October 2015 03: 54 New
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        Quote: Vadim237
        The militants probably have gas masks, so carbon dioxide will not help here,

        I’ll tell you a secret - against CO2, ordinary (filtering) gas masks are useless.
        Isolation-limited time.
        1. Vadim237 25 October 2015 12: 34 New
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          Anyway, this is a useless option, how many CO2 cylinders are needed to fill kilometer tunnels, especially since these tunnels have ventilation.
  21. 31rus 24 October 2015 18: 59 New
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    The problem is solved, in one way, when the population is loyal to power, without help and support on the ground, all this “rat war” will end quickly, for the most “persistent” methods listed above
  22. Rumata 24 October 2015 20: 11 New
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    As it turns out, everything is simple with tunnels. In Vietnam, Afghanistan, Korea, Lebanon, Gaza they could not cope, but then they gathered a site and solved the problem in a couple of hours !! Where have you all been for so many years. Geolocators and scanners do not help, because to use them you need to be in close proximity to the tunnel, that is, as you wrote above, you need to take the city. Gas is not suitable for the same reason, if a tunnel is found, destroying it is not such a problem.
    Take the example of “Indestructible Rock”, not one country at the moment has such experience in the fight against tunnels. We have - wide experience, good intelligence, technological superiority, proximity to the border, well-trained soldiers and a pre-prepared and well-developed plan. With all this, a large percentage of dead soldiers is the result of those same tunnels and guerrilla warfare with their use. At the training camp after the operation, we were introduced to the fact that they had built there, how many were mined, and this is tin. An underground city has been dug for several years below, and a big city above.

    If, purely hypothetically, the Syrian army had entered Gaza, having bombed everything before, it would have been a massacre and not of Hamas militants. By the way, there is an opinion that the destruction of the city will only complicate the fight against tunnels since it will be even more difficult to detect them
  23. Ganssh 24 October 2015 20: 17 New
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    at one time they guarded a group of comrades in the DRA in 1987. So they drove to the entrance to the underground passages aviazaprashchika. poured everything there. then set on fire. in the area of ​​700 meters all exits are visible. nobody complained.
  24. win
    win 24 October 2015 20: 26 New
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    I have already proposed the use of MERCAPTAN on another branch.
    The smell is like that of very sour pork dumplings. With even a gas mask it is difficult to withstand this terrible smell. Everyone will get out like cockroaches. No harm or damage. It does not apply to toxic substances, that is, it is not prohibited. It will disappear in a month ...
    But I was bombarded. Probably not HUMANLY for Muslims, perhaps the word "pork" is annoying.
    But there is a large class of MERCAPTANS that smell differently, or rather "terribly stink." These substances are added in very small amounts to natural gas, which is used to heat residential premises in order to sense gas leaks. Normally, the produced gas does not smell.
    So using tunnels will be very problematic, especially for Muslims.
  25. Mountain shooter 25 October 2015 02: 19 New
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    The problem is tunnel detection. When they discovered - destroy - not a problem. You throw a bottle of liquefied gas, after a few minutes - an explosion, I don’t even talk about thermobaric mixtures. After such explosions in the tunnels there will be no oxygen, but a continuous carbon dioxide.
    Now by discovery. UAVs throw a lot of simple spy robots. A lot of. You will not find everyone. Pebbles lie to themselves, and listen. Periodically dumping information on drones, and from there to the analyzer computer. Which determines the presence of extraneous sounds characteristic of tunneling, or their operation. The work of fans, steps, echoes, something else that is characteristic of underground structures.
    1. voyaka uh 25 October 2015 12: 36 New
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      Our experience has shown that reliable information is provided
      only acoustic sensors mounted deep underground.
      In short, we need to drill a narrow adit 15 meters deep
      and lower the sensor with the communication cable there.
      And such adits need a whole chain. And connect everything with a cable.
  26. rusik090 26 October 2015 15: 20 New
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    If they find oil, then I think ground drones or planes can find a tunnel, and you can also gag such a wunderwafel - a bomb falls, at the end of which a jet drill, acoustic and other sensors fall, so as not to break - a parachute opens, like the astronauts’s the earth itself, begins to dig - finds a tunnel - releases kamikaze robots into it, they crawl along it, simultaneously filling it with the freshest smell of a thermos mixture.
  27. Bumblebee 26 October 2015 23: 28 New
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    There is an option! 1. find the entrance to the hole.
    2. launch a herd of wild boars with implanted trackers in this hole
    3. track by gps
    How does it work. spirits run away from boars - boars after spirits - a network of tunnels is drawn clearly.
  28. bubla5 28 October 2015 08: 48 New
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    It is necessary to check around the airbase, to stitch in a checkerboard pattern on the outer perimeter eight meters down, lay the cc and blow up and do it constantly, it is better to overdo