Military Review

"Super prize" Ukraine

77
"Super prize" Ukraine



The ability to listen and hear the interlocutor is one of the most valuable and, at the same time, little appreciated skills. It seems to us that we hear what we are told in our native language, it seems to us that we understand the interlocutor. In fact, we only listen to ourselves, we put our own thoughts into the interlocutor's mouth, we hear only what we are ready to hear, our brain “filters out” the rest. If our interlocutor speaks a foreign language that we do not know, do not know well enough, or even speak fluently (as it seems to us), the situation is aggravated. We are told something important, on which our whole life depends, but we do not want to hear it. We listen to ourselves, our thoughts, voice our fantasies instead of carefully listening to the interlocutor, who, perhaps, already behind his back clanks the paddle valve.

What strikes me most is the “Euro-oriented” Ukrainians, and, perhaps, the Belarusians who are oriented in the same way - the ignorance of European languages ​​and the categorical ignorance and misunderstanding of Europe. This is paradoxical: people live practically close to Krakow and Vienna (by Russian standards), but mentally and culturally from them as far as possible. In order to verify this, it is enough to read the same Ukrainian newspapers and comments to them, listen to politicians, TV presenters, and “intellectuals”. You see, this is not Europe, it is not even the Middle East with its many thousands of years history civilization (which is not, by the way, in Europe). It is much worse, it is a province, a deaf province. Moreover, it is not inhabited by Chekhov characters.

So, according to my estimates, for Ukrainians, Europe after 1991, was the same “snickering Moscow”, where urgently it is necessary to bring down. The direction of thought was exactly this: milk rivers, milk and honey, salary of many thousands of non-Soviet monetary units. So, a girl from the province dreams of all of Moscow lying at her feet, and persistently offering her work at a local garment factory is absolutely hopeless. Europe for the “little Ukrainian” was a dream, a beautiful fairy tale, stirring the imagination. From the east lay a dark, totalitarian, impoverished Russian empire with its barracks, factories and secret police ... Darkness. And there, in the West, there the fairies dance to the sound of a Viennese waltz and the ink dries on the declaration of human rights.

What would you choose in this situation? Here they are too. Marketing, the magic word is marketing. What makes a great product from a good one? Advertising! That’s all. The “victory” of the West in Ukraine is a victory for marketers, no more, but no less. Of course, if we had talked in a shaggy eighty-ninth, you would have argued to me with conviction that never, not a single normal person would give up his material interests for the sake of some sort of advertising trinkets. But now we know ... We know how, instead of a three-room apartment, fob a man a pack of freshly printed MMM tickets ... Just imagine - you are trying to dissuade someone from your acquaintances or even close relatives at the beginning of 90's. What will be the reaction? You are the enemy and the envious! The kind and generous Mavrodi opens the gate to a bright tomorrow, and some angry scoop and Stalinist is trying to keep you gray and vile today. He must be immediately (and ruthlessly, guilty himself!) Pushed aside and with a brazen but happy face to follow into a bright, ememovskoye tomorrow.

Picture familiar? Unfortunately, we all succumb to manipulation to one degree or another. It's just that in the RSFSR it worked once (the end of 80's - the beginning of 90's), when everyone believed in the “holy market”. Remember? Manipulation is the most powerful weapon. Kara-Murza wrote a lot and in detail about this.
In Ukraine, it works all the time, people just don’t want to learn something. All our proposals for cooperation, about investments, about joint development of the economy do not lead to anything sensible. And today we can say with certainty, they will not. All late to cry about Ukraine, the train left. But the Ukrainians, hanging their ears and holding their breath, listened to the tales of Western manipulators about bad Russians who had offended them, all four thousand years and about a happy future in Europe. This is a deaf dead end. The man simply does not hear you, he listens to the manipulator. The manipulator can be Mavrodi, Mussolini or the god Kuzya ... There is no difference.

We all know that Mao Zedong cruelly destroyed and humiliated the Chinese intelligentsia. Here the bastard, we say, and perhaps we will not quite right. The thing is that at that time the Chinese intelligentsia was a little bit, not exactly Chinese. That is, the European colonizers introduced in China the “system of reproduction of the Latynins”. Chinese students, having passed through the Chinese education system, were ready to serve their overseas masters. Europe is there, America, but not China ... And now Chairman Mao did not like it. The end is a bit predictable. You see, in Ukraine the main problem was not the nationalists, the main problem was that the Ukrainian elite hated Ukraine. At least - the Ukrainian SSR, and they had no other Ukraine. And I wanted to make something unknown out of it ... And I began to destroy it in the bud. With the Ukrainian nationalists, the Russians would reach an agreement very quickly. Example? That same Hungary, which has to Russia the mass of historical grievances. But the Hungarian nationalists, having come to power, quickly realized that Russia was their natural ally. No more, no less. If Ukrainian nationalists came to power in Ukraine, the first thing they would do would be to negotiate with Moscow. How else? Neither Germany nor America needs a strong, independent Ukraine, just as they do not need a strong Hungary, only Russia needs them. Paradox, but that's exactly how it was. However, completely different people came to power in Ukraine. Sorry, Poroshenko Ukrainian nationalist? Maybe Yatsenyuk?

Once again, I will return to the very thought: “people do not know how to listen.” Even among my compatriots, I have heard: “The West is this and that, they want this and that.” At the same time, the person does not know, and he was not interested in the speeches of Western politicians. Did not read their press. Generally he knows everything from retellings, but he is firmly convinced. For some reason, something like this happened to the “Eurooriented” Ukrainians. They traveled to Europe, lived near Europe, dreamed of “entering” Europe, but did not understand and did not understand Europe. In principle, this is not necessary if the two systems exist in parallel. But if “merging” is intended - you need to be very well aware of what you will “merge” with in ecstasy.

So it is in life - we are not obliged to look into the soul of every passerby, but if we are going to live together, then, as a rule, we strive to “look at” the object of sympathy. It was possible to imagine that Ukrainians would carefully study the principles and norms of the European Union, will start to learn foreign languages ​​en masse, to pull the state and society towards European norms. They will especially carefully study the experience of the “Young Europeans”. But as an inveterate badger who didn’t take textbooks for a hundred years, Ukraine did not study anything, Ukraine was hoping for a miracle. That's it, Belgium, France live and live normally. Ukraine will join the European Union and also will live a normal life without poverty and corruption. The fact that, for example, Hungary and Poland, are far less successful than France, was somehow nicely ignored. Neighboring Romania, also a member of the EU, but far from French prosperity there, but this was not considered either. In Bulgaria, the situation is tragic, the Bulgarian people, in fact, are dying out: the population during the years of the “reforms” has decreased from nine to seven million. But who was interested in Kiev? In Ukrainians, there was some strange certainty that they would be taken into the “golden billion”. Here Russians will not be taken (for sivolapost), and Kiev residents will be taken. By the way, the whole game of the West was built on this. I will make a bold assumption: first of all this game was not against Russia, but against Ukraine.

Paradox? Not at all. In the West, they were well aware that “Russia could not be eaten” easily. And Ukraine is much easier. But we also have to try, the problem was that Ukraine did not have large debts, did not lead the war in the North Caucasus, the population was much more homogeneous than in Russia, the economy was completely at the Eastern European level, the population was educated. Solid pluses. Then, the Ukrainians did not waste on the army and navy, from the word altogether, the main market is Russia (that is, the West did not control it). Gas is cheap. In the case of an external threat, Russia will cover. Well, how do you eat it, Ukraine? It turns out that nothing. But the keys were found. Those "nationalists". Ukrainians had to be explained that the main source of raw materials, orders for industry and the main defense partner is the enemy. Enemy number one. The paradox was that Ukraine’s industry, economy, and defense were entirely based on cooperation with Russia.

If Western countries offered alternatives, it would at least be honest. But they were not going to offer anything. About the same thing happened with the Czech defense industry - it was closed, and the Czechs were offered to buy weapons from "senior partners." And all this happened in front of the very, “independent Ukraine”. A rich, developed Czechoslovakia was first divided, then, in fact, robbed. And all this is in front of "promising new members." In principle, small, with a population of several million, the Baltic countries could be digested. But Ukraine is something else. “Too big, too poor, too alien,” was how they talked about Turkey in a similar situation. It should be understood that even with the most favorable developments, it was absolutely impossible to “integrate” Ukraine into Europe. For this, a huge country would have to be “rebuilt” from scratch. How do you imagine that? How much would it cost? Are there any precedents?

Whether you like it or not, Ukraine inevitably had to “break” when changing poles. Well, there is no reasonable way for the development of events when such a large, complex country completely reorients its economy to where it is not expected and everything goes bang. It does not happen. That is, in fact, the murder of Ukraine was planned from the very beginning, and by no means Putin.

“Why did the West need this?” You ask. Everything is quite simple. From their point of view, let a poor and degraded Ukraine be better, but in their zone of influence, than rich and prosperous, but in a Russian one. Well, there are not quite idiots doing politics, they should have understood the consequences. And, in principle, everything turned out for them - Ukraine lost, Russia lost, but they won something. Thriving and rich, Ukraine could only be with Russia, but the European Union did not like it. Russia's choice is not due to a joint history, but to a joint economy. In order to build it from scratch, we need generations and not the fact that it will work out.

The plan of the "European elves" was simple: to embroil Ukraine with Russia, to destroy its economy focused on Russia, to pull it out from under the Russian military umbrella, to colonize. Well, in principle, almost all succeeded. European salaries? Sorry, but the Indians lived in the territory of the world's greatest British Empire, but its citizens were not and lived very modestly - “from paycheck to paycheck”. Some simply died from starvation by millions, and the British Empire flourished, and the sun never set on it. The poverty of the Indians and the prosperity of the British did not contradict each other, on the contrary, one supported the other.

Irish, and this is Europe! So Ayre’s sons were dying by millions from starvation in the middle of the 19 century in the same enlightened and industrialized British Empire. By the way, millions in Ireland are much more sensitive than in India, the population of the Emerald Isle has almost halved. However, the Indians and the Irish, tried to resist, fought for independence. Ukrainians themselves rushed into bondage, even fought for the right to be servami. A unique case in world history. The reason - socialism, but the same, Russian socialism. Ukrainians had a life experience in the USSR. Based on this experience, they planned a bright tomorrow in the Western world. That is, according to their estimates, the US and the EU (like Russia, but much richer and more glamorous), had to build factories, factories, roads and bridges at their own expense. Ukrainians would only show with their finger and were capricious. And in theory, American special forces were supposed to fight in the Donbas. So, thought the Ukrainians.

But the West is not the USSR, not even the USSR. A completely different type of system. After the Second World War, the United States waited long enough for the Soviet Union to fall apart. And only in 50-s, when it became impossible to wait any longer, the German and Japanese economic "miracles" started. And if the USSR really collapsed, the miracle would not have happened. And we would never know what “Japanese quality” is. These are the pies with kittens. With the South Korean "miracle" is also a separate story. In any case, our beloved Ukrainians are not Germans and not Japanese, and not Koreans even once. Do not build from them a modern state. In other words, for the success of this project, the Americans and Germans had to migrate to Ukraine by millions, build all the necessary infrastructure there, plow black, fill the budget in a white way, in short play the role of “quilted jackets”.

It is clear that the Americans and the Germans were not going to work for the Ukrainians. By the way, in the future, I foresee a serious conflict of interests: the Westerners did not understand that in the USSR / Russian Empire they were at war and mostly Russians stood at the machine. So it was pointless to arm the Georgians, or rather, it made sense until the first clash with the Russian army. Then silence. It is also meaningless to expect from the Ukrainians state building and filling the budget. But it was precisely this that the Western curators were waiting for them. There was a scandal in Tbilisi, which Russian paratroopers almost took, and in Kiev, which went bankrupt and completely corrupted.

That is, while the “totalitarian quilted jackets” worked, fought and ruled the state, everything functioned when they were driven away — Central Asia turned out. Isn't it funny? There was no “national rebirth” for anyone. In fact, Ukraine was indeed a colony, but a colony that lived in the USSR at the expense of the “metropolis” and better than the “metropolis”, which is the most ridiculous. Planes, spaceships, ships and buses - everything did the Ukrainian SSR. Just a mini superpower.

But as soon as the Russians “turned off” from this system, everything suddenly collapsed. Suddenly, both for the people of the West and for the Ukrainians themselves. Both were convinced that the Russians in Ukraine were the “fifth element” or the fifth wheel. But you see, as it turned out, there are no Russians in the Ukraine system, and there is no Ukraine itself. Mystic.

By the way, Ukraine will not be offended by the West. After all, Ukraine was not promised anything concrete from the very beginning. Just the Ukrainians did not listen well, inattentively.
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  1. Armored optimist
    Armored optimist 24 October 2015 05: 58 New
    43
    Coming soon.
    1. Tatyana
      Tatyana 24 October 2015 06: 47 New
      37
      Quote from the article
      Ukraine was indeed a colony, but a colony that lived in the USSR at the expense of the "metropolis" and better than the "metropolis",
      The article is correct. The existence of the Russian question in the USSR has long been said. It’s sad that, unfortunately, not everyone wants to hear about him.

      On the one hand, the Russian people, who believed in the communist idea of ​​the Bolshevik-Leninists, and, being the bearer of a sovereign mentality, really built up socialism on all fronts of social construction within the whole country as their entire multinational homeland. As a matter of fact, he had no choice but to do anything. But at the same time, on the other hand, in the former tsarist national suburbs, where feudal relations still prevailed and there was no own national proletariat, power was gained from the Bolshevik-Leninists and under their control by the petty national bourgeoisie and former local feudal lords. National industry was built by the hands of the Russian and Russian-speaking peoples. Moreover, everything that was really created national during the years of Soviet power in the once backward tsarist national suburbs - national republics - is only the local national party and Soviet bureaucracy, as well as the national creative intelligentsia that serves it (social scientists, writers, artists etc.). This national party and Soviet intelligentsia objectively retained the national bourgeois-feudal mentality not only in relation to their own working people, but also in relation to the Russians who came to “hunch on them” up to the time of the so-called Gorbachev “new thinking”.
      Thus, national problems in the Soviet Union were not only from the very beginning of Soviet power, but also had a national-bourgeois class character in relation to the Russian people. The counter-bourgeois coup in the USSR as a whole only raised national bourgeois deformations that had already taken place from the bottom to the surface during the construction of socialism in Russia, which the Soviet leadership tried not to publicize.
      1. summer
        summer 24 October 2015 12: 16 New
        -28
        Quote: Author Oleg Egorov

        The ability to listen and hear the interlocutor is one of the most valuable and, at the same time, few valuable skills. It seems to us that we hear what they say in our native language, it seems to us that we understand the interlocutor. In fact, we only listen to ourselves, we put our own thoughts into the mouth of the interlocutor, we hear only what we are ready to hear, our brain “filters out” the rest.

        This is not much in which I agree with the author. And I tried to listen and hear him.
        Usually a person, when writing an article, not a work of art, he must set himself some goal, find the arguments and competently build them. Then the maximum effect is possible.
        Some kind of intrigue is permissible and even welcomed in a work of art. Small logical contradictions, oppositions of ends and means are permissible. Fiction, in a word.
        So, this opus is an artistic whistle.
        I will try to separate flies from cutlets.
        1. summer
          summer 24 October 2015 12: 18 New
          -19
          Quote: Author Oleg Egorov

          If Ukrainian nationalists came to power in Ukraine, then the first thing they would do would be to negotiate with Moscow. How else? Neither Germany nor America needs a strong, independent Ukraine, just as they do not need a strong Hungary, only Russia needs them. It’s a paradox, but that’s how it was. However, completely different people came to power in Ukraine. Excuse me, Poroshenko is a Ukrainian nationalist? Maybe Yatsenyuk?

          Not with everything, especially in the first sentence, but I agree.
          More ..
          Quote: Author Oleg Egorov

          keys were found. Those same "nationalists."

          It seems that the author found the main thing - the main reason was determined. But then ..
          Quote: Author Oleg Egorov

          In Ukraine, it works all the time, people just don’t want to learn something. All our proposals for cooperation, about investments, about joint development of the economy do not lead to anything sensible. And today we can say with certainty, they will not. All late to cry about Ukraine, the train left. But the Ukrainians, hanging their ears and holding their breath, listened to the tales of Western manipulators about bad Russians who had offended them, all four thousand years and about a happy future in Europe. This is a deaf dead end. The man simply does not hear you, he listens to the manipulator. The manipulator can be Mavrodi, Mussolini or the god Kuzya ... There is no difference.

          The first part is a stupid unfounded hitting. The second part - the desire to listen to the manipulator is a purely Ukrainian chip? The Russians were not noticed in this desire to listen to the manipulator? It smacks of something like this .. Not serious)
          1. summer
            summer 24 October 2015 12: 20 New
            -25
            Quote: Author Oleg Egorov

            One could imagine that Ukrainians would carefully study the principles and norms of the European Union, begin to learn foreign languages ​​for the most part, and pull the state and society to European standards. They will especially carefully study the experience of the “Young Europeans”. But as an inveterate dyadnik, who had not picked up textbooks for a hundred years, Ukraine did not study anything, Ukraine hoped for a miracle.

            There are Ukrainian people. There is Ukraine - the state.
            I am not sure that the author listened and heard the PEOPLE OF UKRAINE .. Well, I do not believe in his such ability and ability. Another thing is that the author listened and heard the state of Ukraine and its "elite". This is the king and his retinue - two sides of the same coin.
            But the author himself determined - “the keys were found. Those same "nationalists". "
            Quote: Author Oleg Egorov

            The Ukrainians lived some strange belief that they would be taken into the "golden billion". They won’t take the Russians (for the silver foot), but the people of Kiev will.

            Quote: Author Oleg Egorov

            The Ukrainians themselves were eager for bondage, even fought for the right to be servs. A unique case in world history. The reason is socialism, and the very one, Russian socialism. Ukrainians had experience living in the USSR. Based on this experience, they planned a bright tomorrow in the Western world.

            Quote: Author Oleg Egorov

            Ukrainians would only show a finger and act up. And in theory, the American special forces should have fought in the Donbass. So, Ukrainians thought. .

            Quote: Author Oleg Egorov

            In any case, our beloved Ukrainians are not Germans or Japanese, nor are Koreans ever. .

            All these are the author’s speculations, not based on “the ability to hear and listen.” In Russian - gag.
            1. summer
              summer 24 October 2015 12: 22 New
              -19
              Quote: Author Oleg Egorov

              The Westerners did not understand that in the USSR / Russian Empire, mostly Russians fought and stood at the machine tool. So arming the Georgians was pointless, or rather, it made sense before the first clash with the Russian army. Then silence. It is also pointless to expect state building and budget filling from the Ukrainians.
              No one came up with a “national revival”. In fact, Ukraine was indeed a colony, but a colony that lived in the USSR at the expense of the “metropolis” and better than the “metropolis”, which is the most ridiculous. Airplanes, spaceships, steamboats and buses - everything was done by the Ukrainian SSR. Just a mini superpower.

              But as soon as the Russians “turned off” from this system, everything suddenly collapsed. Suddenly, both for the people of the West and for the Ukrainians themselves. Both were convinced that the Russians in Ukraine were the “fifth element” or the fifth wheel. But you see, as it turned out, there are no Russians in the Ukraine system, and there is no Ukraine itself. Mystic.

              Separately, I highlight the phrase - “Airplanes, spaceships, steamboats and buses - everything was done by the Ukrainian SSR. Just a mini superpower. ”
              Question - mostly Russians fought and stood at the machine, and Ukrainians built planes, spaceships, steamboats and buses with their feet not lying in the oven? Did I understand the author correctly?
              It didn’t collapse because “it was worth“ turning off ”the Russians from this system” ..
              In this case, it is not clear why in Russia it collapsed? "Turned off" the Jews ???)) And the gypsies ???)))))
              It collapsed because it was DESTROYED! ” Who! The author knows - “Those same“ nationalists ”.” After all, he himself said -
              “I will make a bold assumption: first of all, this game was not against Russia, but against Ukraine.
              Paradox? Not at all. The West was well aware that it was so easy to “not eat” Russia. And Ukraine is much easier. ”
              And such pearls -
              Quote: Author Oleg Egorov

              Once again I will return to that very thought: "people do not know how to listen." Even among my compatriots I have heard ...

              I didn’t understand this “even”. Do your compatriots have a right and a duty to faultless judgments? Are you ashamed of them?
              I could already keep silent about such phrases -
              “That's right - Belgium, France live and live normally. Ukraine will join the European Union and will also live normally without poverty and corruption. ”
              For some reason, the author considers the absence of poverty and corruption in Europe absolutely proven.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. summer
                summer 24 October 2015 12: 27 New
                -9
                If to summarize.
                First, the article is loose and ambiguous.
                The author builds on the idea - the people-creator of his achievements and misfortunes.
                This is a very controversial thesis. As well as the fact of the presence of DEMOCRACY and evidence of its advantages in current forms of existence.
                The second one. I’m not sure ... Or even so - I’m sure that such articles of Russia will not bring anything good.
                They are double bottom.
                1. user
                  user 24 October 2015 13: 57 New
                  25
                  I’m not sure ... Or even so - I’m sure that such articles of Russia will not bring anything good.


                  Well, firstly, the author did not write the Manifesto of the Communist Party, the comrade simply outlined the problem that was originally in the USSR (Remember the rise of the national suburbs). For some reason, they tried not to notice a problem of this nature (and if someone suddenly outlined it was always punished quickly and firmly), the national question was always monitored.
                  Secondly, remember any speeches in the last years of the Soviet regime, Kazakhstan, Georgia, the Baltic states everywhere in the forefront were ardent nationalists with calls for special rights and benefits for the indigenous population. After the departure of the Russian population from these republics, degradation of the economy, industry, and education takes place.
                  So the author voiced everything that everyone already sees (although it is true that the solution to the national question is a delicate matter and does not like sudden movements).
                2. summer
                  summer 24 October 2015 14: 28 New
                  -7
                  Double bottom problem

                  Double bottom - this technique in the art of illusion is used to hide any thing from the viewer's eyes. This post is not about that.

                  The double bottom is us.
                  Caucasians and Russians. One bottom and two bottom.

                  We were pitted. Etched by those who are upstairs.
                  I have a neighbor of typical hach ​​appearance. Especially when one day is not shaved. But this morning, when I went out to smoke on the balcony, he played with his niece in the yard.
                  He blew her soap bubbles and became so carried away that he did it for himself.

                  А мы их не любим... Конечно! Не всех. "Везде есть плохие люди", "никто не говорил про нормальных кавказцев" Этого я не буду говорить. Потому что если вы увидите моего соседа на улице, то подумаете, что он лично устроил Бостонский теракт.

                  It just seems to me now that nationalist sentiments have been imposed on us from above. To distract, to prevent rallying. Moreover, both on the one hand and on the other.

                  Those who are upstairs are suited millionaires. White, black, khachis, Poles ... And up there they are together, so different, against us! We are the bottom.
                  ________________________________________

                  This is a long quote. The words are not mine, but the thoughts are similar.

                  “After the departure of the Russian population from these republics, degradation of the economy, industry, and education takes place.”

                  It is a fact. But he is not self-sufficient. The departure of the Russians is not in itself dropping the economy. Of greater importance is the targeted course of local elites to destroy the entire Soviet heritage. But the Russians do not leave like ants. They are squeezed out. By force. And the author’s approach to this topic only accelerates this process. People (not everyone who wants and can) come back light and, most importantly, without territories.
                  Do you really think that's good? And, to be honest, in Russia Russians "from behind the hill" are not always welcomed with open arms.

                  “Well, firstly, the author did not write the Manifesto of the Communist Party, the comrade simply outlined the problem”

                  Обозначить проблему можно на заборе или в туалете на стене. За свои слова надо отвечать по-взрослому. А, во-вторых, "обозначенная" им впопыхах проблема набирает только «плюсы». Что очень печально..
                  1. summer
                    summer 24 October 2015 14: 58 New
                    0
                    I proceed from the fact that everyone decides for himself. If people who decide something important for themselves unite, then this is power. And if people unite according to the law of herd instinct, then this is a herd.
                    A herd can only trample everything in its path, but is not able to build anything.
                    The principle of “take someone else's” is a herd instinct.
                    1. populist
                      populist 25 October 2015 08: 41 New
                      +7
                      And if people unite according to the law of herd instinct, then this is a herd.

                      In the previous case, you replaced the national approach with the class approach, and in this case, you replace the national approach with the animal, physiological one.
                      Thus, you call your opponents animals.
                      А это уже либерастический приёмчик. Быстро вы из марксиста в либераста перестроились.Не иначе, как буалова алгебра "помогает".
                      In addition, an interesting mess with flags. Five have already changed ...
                      What affiliation will you be? World?
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. summer
                        summer 25 October 2015 10: 40 New
                        -9
                        I will not answer you a second time.
                        Read below .. And .. less unmotivated aggression. Disagreement with my position should not push you to conflict.
                        “Thus, you call your opponents animals” ...
                        Familiar - “Mom, he called me b-la-du-du”
                        PS I collect flags
                  2. populist
                    populist 24 October 2015 23: 12 New
                    +3
                    summer
                    It just seems to me now that nationalist sentiments have been imposed on us from above. To distract, to prevent rallying. Moreover, both on the one hand and on the other.

                    Those who are upstairs are suited millionaires. White, black, khachis, Poles ... And up there they are together, so different, against us! We are the bottom.

                    You are replacing a national approach with a class one.
                    The USSR acted in the same way, not wanting to notice national problems. The result of this approach was the disintegration along the borders of the Union republics.
                    1. summer
                      summer 24 October 2015 23: 27 New
                      -4
                      I noted that this is quoting .. Source - picabu.ru
                      погуглите, если есть "нагода"..)любой длинный кусок - в гугл
                      1. populist
                        populist 25 October 2015 08: 14 New
                        +3
                        I noted that this is a quotation.

                        You quoted this quote in support of your position, that is, you agreed with this quote (otherwise, why give it).
                        Now you have refused it, did not defend the most important (and erroneous) position. You just dodge.
                      2. summer
                        summer 25 October 2015 09: 44 New
                        -4
                        Thank you for writing to me again - I realized yesterday that I made a mistake. But yesterday I was in a hurry to give my answer to the respected Tatiana. Now I have a legitimate reason to deploy my answer. My answer yesterday was incomplete. You gave a quote - I unsubscribed, that this is a quote, not my words. I did not answer the second part of your post. I correct the error.
                        To replace something, you need to have something. I did not understand your position. What national approach are you talking about? If we are talking about a story with the author’s Caucasian neighbor ("The problem with a double bottom" is the name of the scene - a simple coincidence with the words from my post), then the author himself raised the problem and tried to explain its sources. If you, dear, do not understand the difference and dependence between cause and effect, these are not mine, but your problems. I tell you, since you are making a “collision,” I explain his position.
                        The author, and I completely agree with him, considers the fanning of national conflicts to be a non-native (natural, innate) phenomenon, I am a skillful manipulation. In this case, class contradictions are the cause, and the escalation of national enmity is the result, the consequence, with the aim of redirecting the protest mood of the masses. There can simply be no conflict between the effect and the cause, or substitution.
                        Another thing is that national conflicts have natural long-standing foundations. But the process of inciting conflicts is artificial.
                        To paraphrase - if the stars are kindled, then someone needs it.
                        I will give an example. Let's say that in your city the oligarchs are all liberals. They do not want to pay you (all) normal money, do not improve working conditions. You (all) express dissatisfaction .. Up to strikes. They basically do not care, because the police, justice and power in the city are “captured” by them. But, for that they are liberals - they carry out certain informational activities and direct your and your concerns in a different direction. All liberals wear glasses .. on the nose .. They form your and your negative attitude towards them on all noses where there are glasses.
                        Now you and you are already speaking under the slogan “hit on the nose with glasses.” This is exactly what they needed.
                        Now any court, and especially well-fed, will say that you are breaking the law. Although, there are no stupid judges - they perfectly understand the reasons for your discontent. But in form, you and you are wrong. Liberals will protect their noses with glasses, and, as a result, the right to milk you in the future. And you (everyone) will have a lesson - do not be fooled by provocations. The protest must be channeled for sure - the "liberals" ate the dog on legal hooking.
                        Do you understand me?
                        Yes, by the way .. In any national conflict, most of the blame lies with local corrupt collaborators. At the bazaars are those people who paid for it. And not to the budget.
                        With a compliment.
                3. user
                  user 26 October 2015 09: 12 New
                  0
                  Of greater importance is the targeted course of local elites to destroy the entire Soviet heritage.


                  From your comment, I completely agree with this, but it makes no sense to comment on the fence and other things.
                  1. summer
                    summer 26 October 2015 10: 42 New
                    -4
                    I’ll remind you where the fence came from -
                    Quote: user
                    comrade simply outlined the problem

                    Did that make sense?
                    The article resembles cow chewing gum.
                    We must look for ways to solve problems, and not engage in ideological self-satisfaction.
              3. rubidiy
                rubidiy 24 October 2015 21: 26 New
                +9
                статья как раз очень осмысленная. Другое дело, что вы, в своем желании (если оно на самом деле существует) дать ей оценку, в отличие от автора, уходите в дебри того, что я называю "подход гуманитария". Вы не произведение художественного искусства оцениваете. Да, статья написана популярно, но все утверждения и выводы весьма продуманы и просчитаны. Их просто не разбирают по косточкам, чтобы не превращать статью в томик Ленина. Проще говоря, статья о психологии народных масс. Если вы этого не поняли, так почитайте что-нибудь на эту тему, а потом вернитесь к данной статье. И тогда поймете ее не так, как вы воспринимаете и ощущаете мир, а как положено: в русле вполне конкретной науки.
                1. summer
                  summer 24 October 2015 23: 55 New
                  +1
                  If you do not understand my message, I will repeat in more detail ..
                  The author declares an excellent approach:
                  Quote: Author Oleg Egorov

                  The ability to listen and hear the interlocutor is one of the most valuable and, at the same time, few valuable skills. It seems to us that we hear what they say in our native language, it seems to us that we understand the interlocutor. In fact, we only listen to ourselves, we put our own thoughts into the mouth of the interlocutor, we hear only what we are ready to hear, our brain “filters out” the rest.

                  Naturally, I expect a balanced assessment (even personal and biased) .. And ..
                  And none of the claimed - a simple set of cliches, historical jokes and a very marginal assessment of the situation. Probably, I deceived myself - he honestly warned - "In fact, we only listen to ourselves."
                  What he successfully demonstrated ..))))))

                  My approach is not humanitarian - my working toolkit is Boolean algebra in applications. If you understand this.

                  I did not say that the article is meaningless. I said that it is ambiguous - Do you understand the difference? Ambiguity implies hidden goals. Or there is a result of the author’s misunderstanding of the purpose of his publication.

                  “So read something on this subject,” .. Did I give you advice? Do you know the volume and depth of my knowledge? I absolutely do not need empty banal advice.

                  “Then you will understand it differently from how you perceive and feel the world” ..

                  Young man, we still have a country of advice ..
                  But not the country of rams .. (this is part of the joke)
          2. gunya
            gunya 25 October 2015 20: 26 New
            +7
            summer

            All these are the author’s speculations, not based on “the ability to hear and listen.” In Russian - gag.


            Dear, do not pull phrases out of context and do not rush in big words.
            The author correctly disclosed the events taking place in Ukraine.
            1. summer
              summer 25 October 2015 23: 11 New
              -7
              My dear, for what reason? I can take the help of the classics - “Who are you?”
              The author does not prohibit, site rules do not prohibit, common sense does not prohibit, everyone does it ..
              Did I fall into the ritual of ritual? Is this the text of the scripture?
              Song? Joke?
              Which of the words you mentioned is loud?
              You say “right” and do not prove that you are right. Let's say. Then, as the lawyers say, “word versus word”.
              And I say “gag”, because the author declared his sensitive hearing and ability to hear through interference, but in fact you can hear such “arguments” of the author in public transport, on “grandmother's shops” near the house, in the store and at the bazaar.
              So gossip gossip.
              I was of a higher opinion about the VO site when I read articles on the site's profile - war, war, science, economics, history and politics.
              Unfortunately, I started reading articles from the “View».
              Damn me to jerk so hard! request
              That's really - flies separately, cutlets separately. Guess once what prevails in this section?
              And not even in the articles themselves, but in their discussion. Involuntarily I recall the pique vests from the city of Chernomorsk laughing
            2. Shurale
              Shurale 27 October 2015 08: 39 New
              +1
              The author correctly disclosed the events of what is happening in Ukraine

              This is what you decided because what is constantly being discussed here in propaganda articles and it coincides with what they say on TV? This squeeze from the propaganda of our politicians by nichrome does not reflect what happened in Ukraine.
              Free tip: Stop watching TV, get acquainted with at least one of the adequate Ukrainians (for your information there are not all the zombies there are much more adequate than ours) from which thread of the big city and chat, I assure you you will learn a lot of interesting things. To check, you can then scan the Internet for whether it is lying. You will be very surprised when your blinders fall.
              1. summer
                summer 27 October 2015 11: 45 New
                -1
                Now I will show you all the insidiousness hah-la. I will publicly put you, as they say here, Fat plus. lol
                Теперь а) «так вот, подполковник, никогда не стать тебе полковником»; б) будете теперь носить печать "хах-ляцкой пацтилки". fool
                So there will be a lesson for you to get in touch with "ha-ha-ha-ki judas"! Insidious blow in the back! recourse
                Change your nickname soon ..belay
                I wish you success in your hopeless business. drinks
                Sincerely. hi
    2. summer
      summer 24 October 2015 16: 48 New
      -1
      I confess, I first stuck my reasoning after the post of the girl, so that closer to the beginning, because directly discussed the article.
      Then I read the post of respected Tatyana.
      The author’s approach is surprising (in Ukraine it’s already so standardly accepted - prime minister, author).
      She took one sentence and devoted her entire post to another problem.

      “The article is correct. The existence of the Russian question in the USSR has been said for a long time. ”

      The author Egorov took up the topic of bad Ukrainians, and Tatyana about good, but offended Russians.
      Can I wedge about Honduras?

      But if you return to the content of Tatyana’s post directly, then:

      “The Russian people, who believed in the communist idea of ​​the Bolshevik-Leninists, and, being the bearer of a sovereign mentality, on all fronts of social construction really built up socialism within the whole country as its entire multinational homeland. As a matter of fact, he had no choice but to do anything. ”
      There is a clear contradiction - the creator and the carrier of sovereignty, which was cornered ??? It sounds unnatural. The beginning is pathetic, and the ending is pathetic. And it is in one phrase!

      "National industry was already being built by the hands of Russian and Russian-speaking peoples."
      Explicit exaggeration. If this were so, then, firstly, there would be no one to build Russian industry during the years of the Stalin five-year plans, and, secondly, Russians would become a national majority everywhere. Or did they rebuild and leave? And in Russia, did the Ravshans and Jamshuts at this very time, Magnitogorsk get bogged down? And sho is a "Russian-speaking people"?
      The idea is understandable, but the execution is clumsy.

      Next - blah blah blah .. Type -
      “National problems in the Soviet Union ... bore a national-bourgeois class character in relation to the Russian people” - how is this?
      “The national party and Soviet intelligentsia objectively retained the national bourgeois-feudal mentality not only in relation to their own working people ...” - how? and where?
      "Counter-bourgeois coup in the USSR" - is this how ?, when? and where?

      This is not Marxism ...
      And not analytics ...
      “This is not fish, not jellied fish. This is ... There’s not enough horseradish for her. "

      And, characteristically, they gave in to be healthy! What is pop, such is the coming ..

      There are prophets in their own country!
      1. Tatyana
        Tatyana 24 October 2015 19: 54 New
        +6
        Dear Summer!
        I relied on the central report of Zueva T.F. at the 1995 scientific and practical conference of the year in St. Petersburg, devoted to national problems in the Russian Federation / USSR and the beginning of the first war in Chechnya. 19 parties and social movements took part in it. The report was issued in the form of a brochure and presented at the conference, and you can personally familiarize yourself with it in detail if you wish. It is available in electronic form at the Presidential Library. Yeltsin, as well as in the Russian National Library. It was presented in the 2010 year to Putin V.V.
        Just type on the Internet just like that - “Russian question. Zueva T.F. ” - indicating the author. Start reading from the 9 page.

        Zueva T.F. Russian question. National crisis and democracy: the administrative-territorial structure of Russia. - St. Petersburg: A.S. Suvorin of the Union of Writers of Russia, 1995. - 32 sec.
        Quote from the annotation.
        In this paper, for the first time, from the position of a Marxist-Leninist methodology, the initial historical reasons for the emergence of the deepest national crisis in Russia, accompanied by bloody events in Chechnya, are investigated. (...)
        In this case, for the first time, it is precisely from the position of the Marxist-Leninist methodology that the Russian question is substantiated and formulated as the main geopolitical national question in Russia.

        So your claim to the post of Tatiana, that
        Summer
        This is not Marxism ...
        And not analytics ...

        greatly exaggerated! stop
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 24 October 2015 21: 22 New
          +3
          And now, dear Summer, we have a laugh together !!!
          ... post of respected Tatyana. Surprising ... She took one sentence and devoted her entire post to another problem.
          “The article is correct. The existence of the Russian question in the USSR has been said for a long time. ”
          The author Egorov took up the topic of bad Ukrainians, and Tatyana about good, but offended Russians.
          Can I wedge about Honduras?
          Well, if you are a clown, then why not laughing
          “The Russian people, who believed in the communist idea of ​​the Bolshevik-Leninists, and, being the bearer of a sovereign mentality, on all fronts of social construction really built up socialism within the whole country as its entire multinational homeland. As a matter of fact, he had no choice but to do anything. ”
          As in any ethnic group, in a multinational state between individual peoples, nations, there is a struggle for leadership. It is important to be able to distinguish a true leader nation from a pseudo-leader nation for a given multinational ethnic group. A true leader nation differs from a pseudo-leader nation by its mentality sovereignty. If the so-called leader nation does not possess a state of mentality, then it is only a pseudo-leader in this multinational ethnic group, since its own national mentality is NOT aimed at protecting and preserving the entire given MULTINATIONAL ethnic group “compatriots” both in general and in relation to each nation separately; not aimed at protecting its statehood inherent in this multinational ethnic group.
          National industry was already being built by the hands of Russian and Russian-speaking peoples. ” Explicit exaggeration. (...) And shaw is a "Russian-speaking people"?
          “National problems in the Soviet Union ... bore a national-bourgeois class character in relation to the Russian people” - how is this?
          “The national party and Soviet intelligentsia objectively retained the national bourgeois-feudal mentality not only in relation to their own working people ...” - how? and where?
          This is the case, you have to understand, do not ask about Ukraine? !! laughing
          "Counter-bourgeois coup in the USSR" - is this how ?, when? and where?
          Congratulations on a good night's sleep! You apparently just woke up ?! laughing
          And, which is characteristic, crying be healthy! What is pop, such is parish.
          Naturally! And what is the opponent, such is the number of minuses in the basket! laughing
        2. summer
          summer 25 October 2015 00: 16 New
          0
          Thank you, Tatyana, for the search address. Found, downloaded, read.
          What can I say - for its time it is very bold, relevant and concrete.
          And Zueva T.F. and Begunova Yu.K. Thank you very much for their work.
          I agree with almost everything I read, but ..
          First, you practically quoted p. 25 (and it’s not the most-most) .. It would be better from the 26th to the end ..
          Second, but it is closer to grumbling, the terminology on page 25 is inaccurate and the questions remain the same. The Counter-bourgeois coup in the USSR is especially worried. I honestly don’t understand what it is about - 91st, about 93rd or is this some kind of idiom? A coup against the bourgeoisie was carried out in October (November) of 1917. And that’s it! Perhaps a bourgeois counter-coup would be more accurate?
          Although I am not a humanist, I have passed all socio-political sciences at the university and have not completely forgotten the terminology.
          Historical irony - the only keeper of the book on the Internet is a library to them. Yeltsin, whom Tatyana Fedorovna smashed to smithereens.
          Thanks again for the new source of knowledge.
        3. summer
          summer 25 October 2015 00: 16 New
          0
          Thank you, Tatyana, for the search address. Found, downloaded, read.
          What can I say - for its time it is very bold, relevant and concrete.
          And Zueva T.F. and Begunova Yu.K. Thank you very much for their work.
          I agree with almost everything I read, but ..
          First, you practically quoted p. 25 (and it’s not the most-most) .. It would be better from the 26th to the end ..
          Second, but it is closer to grumbling, the terminology on page 25 is inaccurate and the questions remain the same. The Counter-bourgeois coup in the USSR is especially worried. I honestly don’t understand what it is about - 91st, about 93rd or is this some kind of idiom? A coup against the bourgeoisie was carried out in October (November) of 1917. And that’s it! Perhaps a bourgeois counter-coup would be more accurate?
          Although I am not a humanist, I have passed all socio-political sciences at the university and have not completely forgotten the terminology.
          Historical irony - the only keeper of the book on the Internet is a library to them. Yeltsin, whom Tatyana Fedorovna smashed to smithereens.
          Thanks again for the new source of knowledge.
          1. summer
            summer 25 October 2015 00: 46 New
            0
            Honestly, I did not expect such female perfidy ..)
            First I read your first constructive answer, took the time to search and download Zueva’s work, then I let a tear of emotion and wrote a touching letter of remorse, sent it to you, the page reloaded .. I was going to read my answer, correct it as needed and .. What I see, in front of you is your second letter to me .. With faces, with the intonations of a teenage girl.)))
            In essence of your second letter I will say one thing - the problem of finding the difference between a real leader nation from a pseudo-leader nation for a given multinational ethnic group in the context of this site is scholastic .. deeply scholastic .. so deep ...)))))
            Yes. The problem of pluses and minuses excites me only as a resultant illustration of the biases of the reading public. I’m not conceited - I can afford the Marshal’s epaulettes for real .. But. I’m not looking ...)
            1. Tatyana
              Tatyana 25 October 2015 01: 31 New
              +2
              Dear Summer!
              The counter-bourgeois coup refers to the restoration of capitalism of the 1917 year, and not to the 1991 year. Therefore, the bourgeois revolution of the 1991 year is called not bourgeois, but counter-bourgeois. As I understand it.
              By the way, in my post on sovereignty - this is also a whole quote from the “Russian Question” Zueva T.F.
              And also in Ukraine there is also very interesting material from June 2014 of the same author. You need to type on the Internet "What problem does America solve? Zueva TF ”- this article was published on 14 sites.
              http://topwar.ru/52987-kakyu-zadachu-rechaet-amerika.html
              ***
              Dear Summer! Do not take any resentment and nothing so close to your heart! The main thing for us is to find the truth and the right political direction in resolving the interethnic conflict in the dispute.
              Of course, we all have emotions in this painful national question. You do not blame me! But we must pay tribute to you - personally, I didn’t even think that you would so quickly turn to the source! You are just a polemicist, well done! Usually forum users polemicize among themselves, but the whole quality of the polemic remains in their original form! For people are still lazy to search and read the source. And you came to the polemic part not superficially, but really productively - you found and looked at the material. This rarely happens! So your authority as a polemicist deserves special respect in this matter!
              Moreover, and we also listen to you too - we are looking for points of understanding with you. Your opinion is not in vain for us.
              And about the cons - so I have enough of them too. So you are not alone! drinks
              All the best to you! love
              1. Tatyana
                Tatyana 25 October 2015 02: 21 New
                +1
                Summer
                Honestly, I did not expect such female perfidy ..)
                First I read your first constructive answer, took the time to search and download Zueva’s work, then I let a tear of emotion and wrote a touching letter of repentance, sent it to you, the page reloaded ..
                Dear Summer!
                You definitely won't get bored with your humor! lol drinks
                No "female deceit" fellow not here! request It's just that so many tests fail in one post - you have to divide the message into two posts. That's all! yes
                Once again, all the best to you! love
                1. summer
                  summer 25 October 2015 10: 25 New
                  0
                  Dear Tatyana (F.)!
                  For me, I will not hide. It is a great honor to talk with you.
                  And pleasure ..
                  “If I were so smart yesterday, like my Sarah then”
                  Not about the devil by the way will be mentioned ..)
                  I love Peter very much .. My childhood dream is to move Peter to the latitude of Odessa and surround it with a glass dome for
                  restrictions on passenger flow ..
                  I wish you, Tatyana, further success.
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  3. Voha_krim
    Voha_krim 24 October 2015 07: 27 New
    14
    Quote: armored optimist
    Coming soon.

    I read a fairy tale here! I advise you to read on http://analitiks.su/dura-vechernyaya-skazka/
    Here is just the beginning, then even more interesting!

    Ukraine desperately wanted to get married. After the untimely departure of the father-Union into oblivion, she, although declaring independence and even having the appropriate certificate, actually secretly dreamed of a carefree life under someone's protection.
    1. marlin1203
      marlin1203 24 October 2015 12: 27 New
      +7
      Just unlucky people with power. Some came - robbed, others with their slogans - too. And in no way is it clear that ordinary people do not care. And in a collapsing market and freebie sources - this is a real disaster.
      1. marlin1203
        marlin1203 24 October 2015 15: 45 New
        +2
        I do not understand the minus. Who believes that Ukraine is lucky with the authorities? Seem pliiiz. Very directly interesting. laughing
    2. Turkir
      Turkir 26 October 2015 10: 05 New
      +3
      secretly dreamed of a carefree life under the protection of someone.


      The theory of fish-sticking survival. Distributed along the axis of Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine.
      More precisely, it is a gentry, petty nobility thinking, a fear of strong centralized power, a fear of losing their gentry privileges.
      Thinking of the 16th century. Elections? Yes. But only among the gentry.
      Elite .. robbers robbing their own country.
  • igorra
    igorra 24 October 2015 06: 17 New
    35
    We all know that Mao Zedong mercilessly destroyed and humiliated the Chinese intelligentsia. Here is a bastard, we say, and perhaps we will not be quite right. The thing is that at that time the Chinese intelligentsia was a bit of that, not quite Chinese. That is, the European colonialists introduced in China the "system of reproduction of the Latynins." Chinese students, having passed through the system of Chinese education, were ready to serve their foreign masters. Europe is there, America, but not China ... And then Chairman Mao did not like it. The end is a bit predictable.

    Так у нас ситуация та же, везде засилье либерастов, правда научились говорить вместо "эта страна - наша страна". У Путина рейтинг - 90%, будет 120% и памятник при жизни, если всю эту шваль вместе с их бриллиантовыми детьми и латынинскособчакоской бл.дской обслугой хотя бы вышвырнет из страны.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 24 October 2015 06: 18 New
    22
    An interesting article ... So much for Europe! Thank God we came to our senses on time in Russia!
    1. BLOND
      BLOND 24 October 2015 06: 39 New
      18
      And thanks to Russia for that!
      Well, we pissed away Ukraine ...
      In the meantime, everything is on the Wang ... (Russia is the last bastion of mankind ... Syria has not yet fallen ...)
      GDP (it seems to me) knows much more than what we can’t even guess
      1. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 24 October 2015 07: 53 New
        12
        Quote: BLOND
        Well, we pissed away Ukraine ...

        Плюс вам, а вот на счет этого не совсем согласен!Я бы так ответил Украина нас "учит уму разуму",а мы ее родимую сейчас учим! Вся пена там всплыла и все видно,как и что у нас могло бы быть ....
      2. Kazakh
        Kazakh 24 October 2015 08: 44 New
        +5
        Quote: BLOND
        Well, we pissed away Ukraine ...

        It was Ukraine that pissed us off. They drifted ... in the city but with their bare feet.
  • Humpty
    Humpty 24 October 2015 06: 30 New
    11
    A number of Soviet psychiatrists drew attention to the fact that in Ukraine and Moldova, by the way, too, there was a brute force of individuals with a fool who were easy to manipulate through religious sects.
    1. Mirovey dodson
      Mirovey dodson 24 October 2015 06: 58 New
      +6
      У граждан населяющих государственное образование называемое "Украина", можно диагностировать редкое заблевание - туберкулёз головного мозга. Лечение, к сожалению только удаление оперативным путём, очагов распространения инфекции.
  • socol562
    socol562 24 October 2015 06: 30 New
    +6
    There is some truth in the article. Ukrainians do not succeed in creating the state themselves. It is people who live each for themselves and not for society, that is the problem.
    1. Xsanchez
      Xsanchez 26 October 2015 15: 31 New
      0
      But what a good example!
  • Mirovey dodson
    Mirovey dodson 24 October 2015 06: 54 New
    18
    Нет такой нации -"украинец". Граждане Украины, кто они? Территория называемая "Украина", тоже многонациональная. И титульная нация - Руские. Граждане Украины, могут мнить себя отличными, от отличительные, от Русских, со своим, особым отношением к миру, мы тоже им помогаем в этом, одна иллюзия, что "хохол" хозяйственный, чего стоит. Пример сегодняшнего "хозяйского отношения к "неньке" показывает. Парадигма "Гуляй поля" в действии. Большинство граждан, населяющих Малороссию, как жили по принципу:" моя хата с краю...", так жить и продолжают.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 24 October 2015 07: 42 New
      +8
      Цитата: Mirovey Dodson
      Нет такой нации -"украинец". Граждане Украины, кто они? Территория называемая "Украина", тоже многонациональная. И титульная нация - Руские

      Oh what you! So in Ukraine, attended ...
      The Ternopil Regional Council asks the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine to restore the record of nationality in state registration documents and to conduct a population census in 2016.
      The regional council asks to fix in the Constitution the provision that Ukrainians are the indigenous (titular) nation in Ukraine and should be represented in government and local authorities in proportion to the population of Ukraine.
      “In addition, deputies are asking to conduct a population census in Ukraine in 2016 with the obligatory indication of the column“ nationality ”in the census forms.
      Otherwise, the deputy corps notes, "with such a nationless conduct of state registration documentation, our children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, future generations will not be able to prove what kind of tribe they are, their descendants."

      Ну если Порошенко, Тимошенко, Яценюк и прочие запишутся украинцами так таки выйдет "титульная нация"
      1. meriem1
        meriem1 24 October 2015 08: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: Egoza
        Цитата: Mirovey Dodson
        Нет такой нации -"украинец". Граждане Украины, кто они? Территория называемая "Украина", тоже многонациональная. И титульная нация - Руские

        Oh what you! So in Ukraine, attended ...
        The Ternopil Regional Council asks the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine to restore the record of nationality in state registration documents and to conduct a population census in 2016.
        The regional council asks to fix in the Constitution the provision that Ukrainians are the indigenous (titular) nation in Ukraine and should be represented in government and local authorities in proportion to the population of Ukraine.
        “In addition, deputies are asking to conduct a population census in Ukraine in 2016 with the obligatory indication of the column“ nationality ”in the census forms.
        Otherwise, the deputy corps notes, "with such a nationless conduct of state registration documentation, our children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, future generations will not be able to prove what kind of tribe they are, their descendants."

        Ну если Порошенко, Тимошенко, Яценюк и прочие запишутся украинцами так таки выйдет "титульная нация"


        It's empty !!! As you name a ship, it will sail !!! They called .. Do not swim! Need a REVOLUTION !!! Urgently !!!
    2. ava09
      ava09 24 October 2015 08: 57 New
      14
      Цитата: Mirovey Dodson
      Нет такой нации -"украинец"


      "Украинец" - профессия, политическая ориентация. Придавать общую этническую окраску племенам, обитавшим на ОКРАИНЕ то одной империи, то другой - злонамеренно. Титульная нация - русские, а также поляки, венгры, румыны, греки, татары и так далее в короткий промежуток времени стали одной "нацией" - украинцами? Чушь...
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 24 October 2015 07: 29 New
    10
    Good article.
    Just do not hope for the imminent collapse of Ukraine.
    The country is big. rich, whatever they say.
    You can extrude-squeeze dry for another three years for sure.
    The fact that at the same time the population will be reduced by a factor of two to three is not essential for the current owners.
    They actually the smaller the population, the better.
    It will be more inconspicuous to tear off pieces of the country.
    So we look and build.
  • Foresterer
    Foresterer 24 October 2015 07: 40 New
    +8
    He was repeatedly convinced that for the most part the population of Ukraine is less literate, and with pleasure, almost getting into ecstasy, consumes tales of his exceptionalism. I am not talking about education, but about general education, outlook and intelligence. In the minds of the majority of the population, porridge from desires, propaganda and advertising, and real life in Europe, in the EU, they see as something like vivid pictures from comics. They don’t want to think absolutely, but maybe they don’t know how. It is necessary to treat, for a long time and thoroughly, occupational therapy, starving in the cold will help.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 24 October 2015 07: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: Foresterer
      In the minds of the majority of the population, porridge from desires, propaganda and advertising,

      Так этого и добивались все время "незалежности"
      Everyone owes us!

      Received financial assistance from the West is necessary for Ukraine, but it is necessary to seek more favorable conditions for its provision, said Gennady Korban, head of the political council of the Ukrainian Association of Patriots - UKROP.
      “What Natalya Yaresko is talking about, I personally seriously doubt: we are shown facade figures of IMF loans. But at the same time, she doesn’t tell us on what conditions we will be paying off debts to the West for many years, taking funds from future generations, ”Gennady Korban said on the air of the 112 Ukraine television channel.
      According to him, the help received today is vital for Ukraine, "but it is on enslaving conditions." “The conditions are not disclosed to us, but the devil, as they say, is in the details,” Korban added.
      In addition, the leader of UKROP believes that Western countries and Ukrainian diplomacy should pay attention to the Budapest Treaty, under which the United States and Great Britain guaranteed Ukraine territorial integrity. “But they did not fulfill their obligations, and today the only mechanism for compensating for the failure to fulfill their obligations should be financial assistance. And not on the terms of returning 40% of the country's GDP every year, replenishing their funds, ”Korban said.
      1. Xsanchez
        Xsanchez 26 October 2015 15: 46 New
        +1
        Oh! They began to think about how to give, although no, how to take it that way: without giving.
        It doesn’t work out: it’s not the USSR, it’s the IMF! And they ate the whole world on the collection of debts. Ukraine will have to watch how their land will be taken in the literal sense. (There are plans to export black soil, in payment)
    2. Turkir
      Turkir 26 October 2015 10: 21 New
      +2
      The fish rots from the head.
      Байки о собственной исключительности - любимое занятие шляхты, мелкопоместного дворянства и плавно перетекающая в недоразвитые умы недавно разбогатевших лавочников и их детей знающих все марки западных автомобилей и знающих две-три цитаты какого-нибудь грушевского, который зарабатывает деньги на восхвалении "особых черт" присущих этим лавочникам. Шляхта и мелкая буржуазия это тот навоз, та питательная среда, на котором и вырастает смрадный цветок того, что мы называем крайним национализмом.
      Then the whole body begins to rot, poisoning everything around.
      -----
      There are examples of history yesterday and today, only who uses its advice?
  • s.melioxin
    s.melioxin 24 October 2015 07: 43 New
    10
    ... Ukrainians just listened poorly, inattentively.
    Life is like a supermarket, take what you want, but don’t forget the cash desk - ahead. You have to pay for everything!
    Calm is stronger than emotions. Silence is louder than a scream. Indifference is worse than war. Ukrainians are always looking for fools ... Not realizing that they themselves are. Fear indifference. The death of any and any. And most importantly, look at yourself from the outside, it helps a lot.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 24 October 2015 07: 51 New
      +4
      Quote: s.melioxin
      Life is like a supermarket, take what you want, but don’t forget the cash desk - ahead. You have to pay for everything!

      Absolutely right. And as A. Vajra wrote ...
      "Украинцы так до сих пор и не поняли, что за всё в этой жизни надо платить.
      За убийства других людей собственной смертью. За принципиальную лживость – своей обманутостью. За жадность – собственной нищетой. Тем более надо платить за глупость. Как гласит народная мудрость, дураков и на алтаре бьют."
      А тут еще и подсказчики появляются - "Абидели Украину!"
      The famous defector and dissident, and part-time writer and historian Viktor Suvorov complained that the three great powers had once deceived Ukraine, forcing them to disarm and give up 1240 nuclear stockpiles stored since the Soviet Union. In his opinion, Ukraine is secretly from any There were partners to develop new weapons.
  • Chak
    Chak 24 October 2015 07: 47 New
    +7
    But as soon as the Russians “turned off” from this system, everything suddenly collapsed. Suddenly, both for the people of the West and for the Ukrainians themselves. Both were convinced that the Russians in Ukraine were the “fifth element” or the fifth wheel. But you see, as it turned out, there are no Russians in the Ukraine system, and there is no Ukraine itself. Mystic.

    Аплодирую автору, всё чётко изложено и по полочкам разложено. Не совсем согласен только с вышеуказанной цитатой. Проблема в том (и это уже неоднократно рассматривалось на страницах ВО), что из русских на "Украине" с момента создания этой химеры, вытравливали самоидентификацию русских, создавая из них украинских големов. Посмотрите статистику с 20-х годов ХХ века и вы увидите, что численность русских катастрофически сократилась. Вот где геноцид русских, а то в стране "У" всё повторяют мантру "голодомора голодомор"!
  • Oman 47
    Oman 47 24 October 2015 08: 01 New
    +5
    The article is a big interesting plus.

    Я бы озаглавил "Эпоха МММ. Большой самообман. Как разводят лохов сегодня."
    It turns out that b / Ukraine needs about 20 years (one generation) in order to stupidly get who needs them and who their enemy is.
    Такие вот "кружевные трусики" получаются... hi
  • bakhit
    bakhit 24 October 2015 08: 08 New
    0
    When Russia finds itself in a difficult situation, it (or rather the people) can mobilize itself and withstand it at all costs. Then she appreciates the help she received from her neighbors. But as soon as her condition improves, for some reason she turns in the direction of Geyropa, such as partners for all time. This geyropa has always betrayed Russia. There are many examples of this in history. It’s probably time to understand that its Asian allies are much more valuable to Russia. Here they were never betrayed. On the contrary, Russia often betrayed them.
  • lao_tsy
    lao_tsy 24 October 2015 08: 12 New
    0
    Well written article! Do not subtract, not add!
  • Windy
    Windy 24 October 2015 08: 36 New
    +1
    Статья-то хорошая, но "передёргивает затвор нагана" на военном сайте, это request
    1. Olezhek
      24 October 2015 10: 53 New
      0
      The word is a marker ...
      Curious to know was to see the reaction ...
      Who will notice, who knows and how much lol
    2. Colonel
      Colonel 24 October 2015 11: 31 New
      0
      Quote: Windy
      но "передёргивает затвор нагана" на военном сайте, это

      напомнило "стремительно падающий домкрат" wassat
      Although I agree with many provisions of the article and put the plus.
      1. Olezhek
        24 October 2015 11: 39 New
        -2
        In short, I understand
        Mass culture
        For all its glorious history, the company Nagant has created one sample of weapons, especially for the Russian commissars ..
        Pichalka, I will keep in mind.
        It's like listening to our radio, you might think that Louis Armstrong sang one song.
        Let my people go ...
        Those. The main source of information is children's picture books ..
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 24 October 2015 08: 38 New
    +4
    Да уж. Когда украинцы наконец поймут, что Россия с Укропией не воевала и ни на кого не нападала? Поскольку то, что происходит с противником, против которого работает всего лишь один смешанный авиаполк - можно наблюдать воочию на экранах телевизоров. Но свидомые правила формальной логики неведомы. Любое событие в России, любое её действие они воспринимают искаженно, как в кривом зеркале. Да и .... с ними. Вычеркнул я из своей базы все почтовые адреса из "оттуда". Ну не буквально удалил, а в отдельную папку, с названием "Незалежность". Может, ещё пригодится. Годика через два-три?
  • Steppe
    Steppe 24 October 2015 09: 03 New
    +9
    That is why, I believe, it is necessary to care more not about the republics within Russia, but about the areas where the Russian population traditionally lives. With the republics it is not yet known how it will turn out in history. So, maybe 1-2 republics will separate, and without Russians, all republics, without exception, will run into independence. If you do not support the Russian population, then in general there will be no state.
  • beer-youk
    beer-youk 24 October 2015 09: 04 New
    +9
    They always had a consumer complex, which everyone owes. If you carefully read the open source, you can see very well the protectionist policy of the Soviet leadership in relation to the Ukrainian SSR. Since 1955, subsidies in the Ukrainian SSR have been increasing every year. In 1984, subsidies in the Ukrainian SSR amounted to 59% of the expenditures of the Union budget, and the revenue from the Ukrainian SSR amounted to 6,81%. The whole Union fed these freeloaders !!! And then, by inertia, Russia supported. Now that it seemed that the Geyropean freebie is sweeter, they turned to the breadwinner with what they know. The bottom line is that the new freebie did not take place, the old one was offended, but throws up some scraps of kindness in order to not die from pride.
  • eaa59
    eaa59 24 October 2015 10: 08 New
    +5
    There is such an old joke:
    Мужику в раю дали тур. путевку в ад. Поехал, отдохнул две недели, каждый день девки, вино рекой,любые капризы. Возвращается он обратно в рай и подает заявление на ПМЖ в ад. Вызывают его к апостолу Петру,уговаривают его остаться, мол обратно не возьмем, он ни в какую. Вообщем, отпустили. Переезжает мужик в ад, уже ручки радостно потирает от предвкушения веселой жизни, а его сразу по приезду бац и в котел с кипящей смолой, а потом на раскаленную сковородку и т.д. Взвыл мужик, напросился на прием к старшему черту. Спрашивает: "Как же так приезжал по путевке - сплошное веселье было, а как жить приехал - семь кругов ада прошел полностью и на второй круг по ним пошел". Ухмыльнулся загадочно старый черт и отвечает: "Дорогой, ты не путай туризм с ПМЖ".
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 24 October 2015 10: 15 New
    +4
    Will the Russian people stop idiots who are not grateful to nurse? The key word is that they are not grateful. Did you like the article. How do you get different stages of development? And from the lower level higher some do not? I re-read once.
  • Grandfather Luka
    Grandfather Luka 24 October 2015 10: 25 New
    +5
    ...." Передергивает затвор нагана." - оригинально однако.
    1. Olezhek
      24 October 2015 10: 38 New
      0
      If you think that Emil and Leon created Toko a single weapon in their entire life
      I have to disappoint you ...

      Colleague, never study the history of weapons on the revolutionary Roma
      especially before lunch.
    2. Xsanchez
      Xsanchez 26 October 2015 15: 57 New
      0
      Передернуть можно в "калаше"на нагане только оттянуть:дилетанты!
  • Dragon-y
    Dragon-y 24 October 2015 11: 05 New
    +3
    Quote: Grandfather Luka
    ...." Передергивает затвор нагана." - оригинально однако.

    Это из разряда "пляшущих стрелок осциллографов". Журналисты, они такие журналисты... Нет, чтобы у знающих людей сначала спросить. :)
    1. Olezhek
      24 October 2015 11: 16 New
      -1
      How knowledgeable is it that people familiar with the history of Nagant?
  • NIKNN
    NIKNN 24 October 2015 11: 18 New
    +5
    Quote: Zomanus
    Good article.
    Just do not hope for the imminent collapse of Ukraine.
    The country is big. rich, whatever they say.
    You can extrude-squeeze dry for another three years for sure.
    The fact that at the same time the population will be reduced by a factor of two to three is not essential for the current owners.
    They actually the smaller the population, the better.
    It will be more inconspicuous to tear off pieces of the country.
    So we look and build.


    Из соседней темы про "Новый майдан":

    The inspector is going to Kiev .... On October 26, the visit of the US Secretary of Commerce P. Pritzker to Ukraine for the final act of describing the state property of UKRAINE with which I congratulate the people of UKRAINE on becoming a delicious dinner for financial sharks of the US business.

    P. Pritzker .... this lady is very rich with 2,9 billions of greens in her wallet and the same rich family of her relatives ... so they will eat YaSENYUK just like we eat dumplings ... we don’t have dumplings.

    А Вы говорите 2-3 года. Эти ребята уже бабки подсчитали, осталось как можно быстрей вступить в права. И не думается, что они "свое" имущество беречь не будут.
  • Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 24 October 2015 11: 34 New
    0
    Quote: igorra
    We all know that Mao Zedong mercilessly destroyed and humiliated the Chinese intelligentsia. Here is a bastard, we say, and perhaps we will not be quite right. The thing is that at that time the Chinese intelligentsia was a bit of that, not quite Chinese. That is, the European colonialists introduced in China the "system of reproduction of the Latynins." Chinese students, having passed through the system of Chinese education, were ready to serve their foreign masters. Europe is there, America, but not China ... And then Chairman Mao did not like it. The end is a bit predictable.
  • Azitral
    Azitral 24 October 2015 12: 08 New
    +2
    "Я бы так ответил Украина нас учит уму разуму..."
    Не то, чтобы до "Майдана" что-то было непонятно. Просто после него не осталось сомнений. "Майдан", как скальпель, показал истинное лицо, истинную цену многому и многому, что иначе осталось бы скрытым. Я по пунктам, а вы посмотрите, согласитесь или нет. 1)Украине и украинцам. 2)России и ее гражданам. 3) США. 4)ЕС вообще и отдельным ее странам и народам в отдельности. 5)Путину. 6)Армии и ВПК РФ. 7)Системе финансов в мире и у нас, - даже природе денег! 8)Психологии масс. Это только навскидку. А статье - множество плюсов. Редко бывает чтобы так точно, жестко и без мешающих эмоций.
  • IAlex
    IAlex 24 October 2015 12: 15 New
    +1
    This is some kind of super prize for sadomasochists ...
  • akm8226
    akm8226 24 October 2015 14: 04 New
    +5
    How familiar to me! Exactly the same situation in the Baltic states (who is talking about and lousy about the bath!))
    Точно так же орали "Русские оккупанты вон из Литвы!" И что? Доорались. Все предприятия рухнули абсолютно, от слова совсем. Заводы, выпускающие компрессоры для АПЛ и рулевые машины для океанских судов,теперь клепают стойки для велосипедов около супермаркетов - разницу чуете? Это мой завод бывший сейчас такое делает.Без слёз на это смотреть невозможно.Я не говорю уже что при СССР завод САМ строил свои дома, для рабочих. Вот в последнем таком доме живу и я.Больше с 1991 года ничего построено не было. А нацкадры все тупые, как брёвна. Некому слово сказать.
  • BARKHAN
    BARKHAN 24 October 2015 16: 10 New
    +5
    In this situation, the main thing is not to interfere with our erring-naive neighbors. They will do the worst for themselves. About the Russian population will dump into Russia, increasing the Slavic population. About Europe will dump Arab-Negroid blood into Europe. The patriots will remain and kill each other. The territory will self-clean up and will share between the neighbors. In any case, when we intervene, we will be enemies. Everyone is waiting for a dividend ... the Poles have already started talking about restitution.
    To be honest, I sincerely feel sorry for them, how sorry for sick people can be ... And, as you can call people who are so recklessly doing bad things to themselves.
  • Lev s
    Lev s 26 October 2015 02: 52 New
    +2
    It is time for Ukrainians to stop building cement zambaks and open plague huts for Svidomo heroes of the nation
  • Erg
    Erg 26 October 2015 08: 25 New
    +2
    Вызывает недоумение "серьёзность" полемики по поводу Украины и её народа.Диагноз уже давно поставлен, определены и течение болезни, и сроки "перерождения". Некий жонглёр флагами "летний" вообще позабавил. Удивляет то, что достаточно умные и рассудительные коллеги позволили ему утянуть себя в сторону от основной темы, и занялись сортировкой грязного белья. Статье плюс. hi
  • Shurale
    Shurale 26 October 2015 08: 37 New
    -4
    The ability to listen and hear the interlocutor is one of the most valuable and, at the same time, few valuable skills. It seems to us that we hear what they say in our native language, it seems to us that we understand the interlocutor. In fact, we only listen to ourselves, we put our own thoughts into the mouth of the interlocutor, we hear only what we are ready to hear, our brain “filters out” the rest.

    I completely agree with the author, very well expressed the position of Russia. We just forget that Ukrainians have not only ears but also eyes, and what do they see? They see Russian troops on their territory, Crimea, for example, I’m not even talking about the DPR and LPR. And you think they will listen to us after that? In my opinion, after what Russia has done, it’s stupid for her to wait for a normal dialogue with Ukraine, it’s stupid and it’s very softly said here, cynicism will be closer.
    1. Sorokin
      Sorokin 26 October 2015 10: 57 New
      0
      Немного не понятно про "свою" территорию.А как же турки-месхетинцы и крымские татары? Они тоже считают Крым своим.
      1. The Chat
        The Chat 26 October 2015 17: 07 New
        +1
        And also the Greeks, Genoese, Karaites, etc. up to the Alans ....
      2. Shurale
        Shurale 26 October 2015 18: 24 New
        -3
        Imagine that the Japanese introduced a contingent in the Kuril Islands, held a referendum there and proclaimed them their territory? And you do not have the opportunity to drive them away. What will happen? Some Russians will say - well, to hell with them with the Kuril Islands, why do we have a little land? The second part will say - bastards and ki, return our lands !!! And the Japanese will tell this that in past centuries there lived the original Japanese, and so on. Did I normally reveal the situation to you?
        1. Shurale
          Shurale 27 October 2015 08: 18 New
          0
          Vovo, there’s nothing to answer, but put your cons in your ass ....
          It is because of people like you who call us zombies in Ukraine.
      3. a housewife
        a housewife 26 October 2015 19: 21 New
        0
        At least the Meskhetian Turks have nothing to do with it. These are Georgians from Meskhetia (region of Georgia). They are called Turks for accepting Islam.
    2. vladimirw
      vladimirw 26 October 2015 12: 31 New
      +1
      And that the author recorded the troops of the Russian Federation in Novorossia? Or is it another throw of desa?
      1. Shurale
        Shurale 26 October 2015 18: 28 New
        -1
        What do you think that the forest residents of Donetsk and Lugansk themselves have been holding defense for so long? Do you have a brain? Or to make sure it is available, will you require doctors to take it out and show it to you?
  • misterwulf
    misterwulf 26 October 2015 09: 22 New
    +1
    All right. Good psycho-political-ethnographic analysis.

  • vladimirw
    vladimirw 26 October 2015 12: 30 New
    +3
    And I agree with the author. Everywhere in all the republics of the USSR was the same thing. The Russians were second-class people. If possible, they were not allowed to the leadership anywhere, and they were at posts where it was necessary to work hard in black.
    The experience of communication on business trips to enterprises of the USSR confirms this.
    And the outskirts got what they wanted. The trouble is that they will not take this ruin in the EU, but they will throw it to us in the Russian Federation
  • skrabplus.ru
    skrabplus.ru 26 October 2015 12: 56 New
    +3
    Quote: summer

    PS I collect flags

    lacking this:
    1. summer
      summer 26 October 2015 16: 29 New
      -4
      Who collects what ... crying
      I would not be surprised if you boast a collection of “contraband” vibrators. For very high domestic consumption tongue belay laughing
    2. boris-1230
      boris-1230 26 October 2015 21: 56 New
      0
      Quote: skrabplus.ru
      Quote: summer

      PS I collect flags

      lacking this:

      Не-е! Не "Задний привод",а "Задний проход"!
  • Vadimsh
    Vadimsh 26 October 2015 13: 34 New
    0
    It is true that in order to be heard you need to be able to listen, in which I agree, in something not, but you need to reflect. And about nationalism (not nationalists), you can use the works of V.I. Lenin ....
    1. Xsanchez
      Xsanchez 26 October 2015 16: 18 New
      +2
      They’ll get it and throw it back: it won’t work out. They have great debts! Not Greece, of course, but still less assets: Greece has 1,5 islands in Middle-earth, and Ukraine has one port in Illichivsk, all the rest is crap. they’ll be 300 years old, the IMF will take care of this, it’s not Russia with more expensive oil, which has repaid its debts in 5 years. And we don’t need rogue traitors!
  • Old warrior
    Old warrior 26 October 2015 16: 00 New
    +2
    Ukraine is not hoping for a miracle - it is hoping for a freebie. And in general, there is no Ukraine and never has been - it is a temporarily occupied Russian territory (Little Russia).
    1. populist
      populist 26 October 2015 20: 53 New
      +1
      And in general, there is no Ukraine and never has been - it is a temporarily occupied Russian territory (Little Russia).

      You voiced the only true position on this issue.
      A small clarification is the temporarily occupied Russian territory with the deceived Russian population.
  • Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 26 October 2015 21: 28 New
    +1
    "Кстати, обижаться на Запад у Украины не получится. Ведь Украине с самого начала ничего конкретного не обещали. Просто украинцы плохо слушали, невнимательно."

    Вот и нам надо уметь "слушать" все наши партии и движения. Но это "слушание" д.б. на самом деле анализом дел всех деятелей и не только в центре власти , но даже больше власти на местах. А это возможно только с возрастанием уровня образования населения. Сегодня этот уровень падает несмотря на очень большое количество всяких институтов, колледжей, университетов. А происходит это от того что целью этих образовательных учреждений является получение прибыли, а не собственно образование. Поэтому качество образования неуклонно падает, несмотря на все еще сохранившиеся островки действительно хороших учреждений. Качество же школьного образования падает с каждым годом, увы. Приняли за стандарт не то, что надо. Обучаем поколение потребителей, а не талантливых производителей, инженеров ученых и т.д. hi
  • populist
    populist 26 October 2015 21: 29 New
    0
    Once again I will return to that very thought: "people do not know how to listen." Even among his compatriots ...

    It turned out to be a good article, of high quality.
    Now I would have an article on why “people can’t listen,” they don’t hear and can’t figure it out themselves (come to the logical conclusions). A day in three or four, judging by the publications.
  • kusnez
    kusnez 27 October 2015 03: 02 New
    +1
    Статья верная по духу, ведь большинство жителей Украины, как и России, наследники "советского" образа мышления. На Украине, жившей тогда лучше остальных (сам бывал не раз с "наездами" за дефицитом) к концу Союза сформировалось своеобразное массовое потребительское мышление по отношению к своему большому государству, которое большинству давало все-таки больше, чем отбирало. При этом основная масса людей не задумывалась откуда что берется. Я думаю, что разработкой "отрыва" Украины от России занималась очень сплоченная и профессиональная команда, скорее всего не многочисленная и думаю, что разговаривающая между собой на русском. Результатом заказчики могут быть довольны - славяне дерутся между собой.Очень жаль. PS. Спасибо, что прочли мои мысли, буду рад услышать другие мнения.
    1. summer
      summer 27 October 2015 12: 28 New
      0
      На Украине, жившей тогда лучше остальных (сам бывал не раз с "наездами" за дефицитом) к концу Союза сформировалось своеобразное массовое потребительское мышление по отношению к своему большому государству, которое большинству давало все-таки больше, чем отбирало.

      This is not true. I tell you as a person who has lived all his life in Ukraine and by nature of activity has traveled almost the entire European part of the USSR.
      For example, we from Odessa went to work in Chisinau. I brought sausage from Minsk to Odessa. In Vilnius at the end of the 80s, I was transporting raw meat from a business trip. From St. Petersburg brought every consumer goods. I’m generally silent about Moscow. In the military towns there was everything when in the civilian cities the shelves were already empty. And I did not live in Kryzhopol or Zhmerynka. It depends on what you are comparing. The capitals (all) were supplied in the first category. Large regional centers - a notch worse .. And so on. The reasons for this are clear to me, but this is a completely different story. I can agree that the average level of supply in Russia was lower than Ukrainian. But this all-Ukrainian “mass consumer thinking in relation to its large state” does not completely follow.
      In this sense, such thinking is more applicable to Muscovites and Petersburgers, Kiev and Minsk dwellers, all “benefits” (all because of their dwarfism).
      Otherwise, I agree with you in principle. It is in principle the focus of separation and bleeding. I would like the Russians to be smarter. Still, the time of defamation of the whole of the Soviet Union was much shorter.
      Sincerely.