Military Review

Real coverage area for Caliber-NK cruise missiles

238
In the light of recent high-profile world events (I mean the Russian armed forces working out targets in Syria with sea-based Caliber-NK cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea) all analysts raced to draw impressive maps with the potential radii of these missiles from the Caspian and Black Seas . Like these ones:




One of the bloggers (I won’t call them to guess), leading his own journal in the style of “insider from Stirlitz with oranges”, even managed to present the public with a supposedly secret map from the General Staff itself with the emblem, Putin’s signature and corresponding signature on the margins. And there were such circles too. I only had one quick glance at this craft to understand that the card was fake. And because I am from childhood "an avid gambler" and "Globusophil."

Lyrical digression:

Those who flew from Russia at least once, say, to America, must have seen the flight pattern on the monitors on an airplane - it is displayed online, as in a normal navigator:



At the same time, somebody wondered: why are we flying in such an arc, and not in a straight line? Fuel, perhaps, nowhere to go?

The fact is that the usual large-scale (world) flat maps, which we see on the screens and which hang on the walls, have a strong distortion. The earth, as you know, has the shape of a ball (well, almost a ball - slightly flattened at the poles), and the map, as a rule, is a rectangle. The poles on it have the same length as the equator, although in reality the poles are points. Thus, this image of the surface of the Earth is strongly stretched to the poles and compressed in the equatorial zone:



Pay attention to the size of Antarctica in relation to other continents. What if I tell you that all of Africa is almost twice as big as Russia (30 million km2 against 17 million km2). What does the map tell us? That's right - the map is lying to us shamelessly! Therefore, most of the straight lines on such a map are not straight lines in reality, and all circles without exception are not circles in reality, and vice versa. And our plane to America, in fact, flies in a straight line:



Now back to our missiles.

In addition to the fact that all the schemes presented in the network do not take into account the above-described factor (and it is extremely important for schemes of this scale, and you will soon be convinced of this), they also neglect the size of the seas themselves. Radii are drawn from one point approximately from the centers of their waters. But the ship has the ability to move on the surface of the water, which to a certain extent expands the zone of combat use of the weapons installed on it. In this case, the size of the waters is too large to be so easily neglected: the Caspian Sea has a length from north to south of more than 1000 km, and Black - more than 1000 of km from west to east.

Guided by this simple knowledge and using it as a new introductory, we have the opportunity to take a completely new look at the information previously presented to us.

This is what a REAL defeat zone for Caliber-NK cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea will look like:



And so from the Black Sea:



Compare with previous information:



Pay attention to where now, say, Scandinavia, Paris with London, and almost all of England, with the exception of Scotland and Ireland, are now. Perhaps in all of Europe, only Portugal can sleep peacefully. But just to her we have no special complaints, as there is no special need for the transfer of missile boats of the Caspian flotilla to the Baltic "in case of what."
Originator:
http://voronkov-kirill.livejournal.com/
238 comments
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  1. Aleks28
    Aleks28 24 October 2015 05: 58 New
    20
    Pay attention to where, say, Scandinavia, Paris and London, and almost all of England, with the exception of Scotland and Ireland, are now. Perhaps, in the whole of Europe, only Portugal can sleep peacefully. But we have no special complaints about it, just as there is no special need for the transfer of missile boats of the Caspian flotilla to the Baltic "in case of anything."
    Our sworn “friends” calculated it the same way, and so they started letting them go (like we could). Europe sat down from surprise, well, some people did it in pants. Nothing, we can be more accommodating.
    1. crazyrom
      crazyrom 24 October 2015 06: 25 New
      26
      The article is certainly important, but it is already 2 of the week (15 days), somehow too late.
      1. afdjhbn67
        afdjhbn67 24 October 2015 06: 35 New
        16
        Quote: crazyrom
        but she’s already 2 weeks (15 days), somehow too late.

        This is the site administrators put, and then probably neigh from the rise of cheers-patriotism ..
        1. MIKHAN
          MIKHAN 24 October 2015 07: 00 New
          84
          "Gauges" ..How do they warm the Russian soul!
          And I especially like these surprise containers ..! hi
          1. Alex_Rarog
            Alex_Rarog 24 October 2015 07: 35 New
            17
            Yeah, I also thought about them, how would you imagine a container ship with a URO, the oceans already a malicious smile stretches itself ....
            1. Persistent
              Persistent 24 October 2015 08: 29 New
              42
              There are enough Americas !!! And how many of them can be in all ports of America at the same time ???
              1. 97110
                97110 25 October 2015 15: 34 New
                +2
                Quote: Persistent
                There are enough Americas !!!

                And how many such ships are flying the Russian flag? Or is the firing of missiles from a Cypriot Liberian inspire you more? Is it possible to shoot from a container in a stack? Even at the top of the stack?
            2. opus
              opus 24 October 2015 11: 27 New
              16
              Quote: Alex_Rarog
              , as you can imagine container ships with URO, the oceans already a malicious smile stretches itself ....

              upset.
              There are almost NO container ships under the Russian flag.
              FESCO Novik yes Norilsk Nickel yes +


              they are not ours.



              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 11: 44 New
                +6
                Quote: opus
                There are almost NO container ships under the Russian flag.
                FESCO Novik yes Norilsk Nickel yes +

                Buy container ships (under any flag) is a matter of a couple of weeks.
                Convert them accordingly - look at the British experience in the war for the Falklands.
                And then - launch them on the “big cabot” routes such as Murmansk - Kaliningrad (St. Petersburg) or Arkhangelsk - Novorossiysk.
                If these ships are assigned the status of auxiliary fleet ships (with the transfer under the flag of the Navy), and the cargo facilities are used for commercial cargo ....
                fellow
                1. opus
                  opus 24 October 2015 12: 04 New
                  20
                  Quote: stalkerwalker
                  Buy container ships (under any flag) is a matter of a couple of weeks.

                  no.
                  No free
                  construction cycle from a year, everything is planned

                  It even took several years to pump BMP (the largest in Europe).
                  Quote: stalkerwalker
                  If these vessels are assigned the status of auxiliary fleet vessels

                  the reality is that we have virtually no merchant fleet

                  A total of 1130 Russian vessels sailing in the seas and oceans with a total deadweight of 5,7 million tons. Of these: 215 tankers, 718 bulk carriers, 28 bulk carriers, 27 chemical carriers, 35 oil tankers, 11 rooro vessels, 7 bulk carriers. The tonnage of the Russian fleet is approximately 1,5% of the world. By capacity, the Russian fleet is only the 19th in the world

                  For example, in Russia there are few container ships: only 0,3% of the world container fleet.

                  All of them fly under the flag of the Russian Federation, but only 430 vessels control the state. 60% of ships sail under the convenient flags of Liberia, Malta, Cyprus and Panama. The number of ships under the Russian flag is decreasing, and under convenient flags it is growing.
                  There are almost no modern container ships, horizontal loading ships, lighter carriers (cargo transportation in lighters, barges). However, they are hardly needed. The specifics of the cargo fleet of the Russian Federation is determined by the nature of the cargo.



                  Quote: stalkerwalker
                  And then - launch them on the “big cabot” routes such as Murmansk - Kaliningrad (St. Petersburg) or Arkhangelsk - Novorossiysk

                  This is pointless. Such a route in NATO's coastal aviation zone and NATO coastal anti-ship missile
                  Norwegian NSM (Naval Strike Missile), RCC Harpoon Block 2, French MBDA (RCC Exoset) and Swedish SAAB Dynamicix (RBS-15 Mk3)

                  + ship RCC


                  same Poland:


                  The Polish Mobile Coastal Defense Battery CDB (Coastal Defense Battery) includes: six dual-container launchers of anti-ship missiles anti-ship missiles NSM, located on vehicles: two mobile radar stations for detecting surface and low-flying air targets; three KShM with fire control and data processing systems
                  1. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 12: 28 New
                    +3
                    Quote: opus
                    Quote: stalkerwalker
                    Buy container ships (under any flag) is a matter of a couple of weeks.
                    no.
                    No free
                    construction cycle from a year, everything is planned

                    Come on...
                    1. What you can’t buy for money - you can buy for a lot of money.
                    2. Give me the right and guarantee for payment - I will find you such container ships in the waters of Southeast Asia for the same couple of weeks. Rollers, bulk carriers, and other types of ships WITHOUT cargo equipment on the main deck are also constructively suitable.
                    I’ll put these containers at least for the direction finding bridge. I’ll only raise the flag of the Navy and repaint the hull in ball color.
                    1. Coward
                      Coward 24 October 2015 14: 20 New
                      0
                      40ft container on direction finding deck ?! !! belay Well, well.
                      You would temper your ur-patriotism.
                      1. stalkerwalker
                        stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 19: 39 New
                        +7
                        Quote: Coward
                        40ft container on direction finding deck ?! !! Oh well.
                        You would temper your ur-patriotism.

                        You do not confuse pleasure yachts on the Istra Reservoir with Oken ships with a deadweight of 50 thousand and more.
                        And nobody interferes with the direction finding deck to strengthen and lengthen the dimensions of 40 feet - no register limits ... wassat
                    2. opus
                      opus 24 October 2015 19: 37 New
                      +4
                      Quote: stalkerwalker
                      can be bought for a lot of money.

                      there is no money, much less "big" ones.
                      And those that "are" in government bonds of the US Federal Reserve, the ECB, Kakloobboniy, and on correspondent accounts of US and European banks.
                      adieu
                      Quote: stalkerwalker
                      I will find you such container ships in the waters of Southeast Asia

                      1. you will not find. no free. Visit Rotherdam, Bremerhaffen, any Chinese port, or US port.
                      Container ships run like subway trains. Everything is scheduled.
                      And it’s not so “easy” to sell to the seller: leasing, external financing, mortgaged, etc.
                      2 go for it
                      Alianca Alianca Navegacao e Logística
                      ANL Australian National Line
                      APL American President Lines
                      CSCL China Shipping Container Lines
                      CMA CGM CMA-CGM Container Lines
                      COSCO COSCO Container Lines
                      CSAV Compania Sud Americana de Vapores
                      CSAV Norasia CSAV NORASIA Liner Services
                      Delmas Delmas Shipping Company
                      Evergreen Evergreen Marine Corporation
                      FESCO FESCO Shipping Company
                      Hamburg Sud Hamburg South America Line
                      Hanjin Hanjin Shipping
                      Hapag LLoyd Hapag-Lloyd Container Lines
                      HMM Hyundai Merchant Marine
                      Italia Marittima Italia Marittima SpA
                      K Line Kawasaki Kisen Kaisha
                      LIBRA Libra Shipping Company
                      MACS MACS Cross Trading GmbH
                      MAERSK Maersk Line
                      MISC Malaysia International Shipping Corporation Berhad
                      MOL Mitsui OSK Lines
                      MSC Mediterranean Shipping Company SA
                      NYK Nippon Yusen Kabushiki Kaisha
                      OOCL Orient Overseas Container Line
                      PIL Pacific International Lines
                      Safmarine Safmarine Container Lines
                      SAMSKIP SAMSKIP Multimodal Container Logistics
                      SCI The Shipping Corporation of India
                      Seago Seago Line
                      UASC United Arab Shipping Company
                      YML Yang Ming Marine Transport Corporation
                      ZIM Zim Integrated Shipping Service
                      s
                      (for each Shipping Line Container Tracking Form online)
                      will sell?
                      3. Any sale may be blocked by the government of the owner’s country
                      Quote: stalkerwalker
                      Rollers, bulk carriers, and other types of ship are also constructively suitable.

                      even greater deficit
                      http://www.finnlines.com/
                      from grimaldi groups
                      http://www.grimaldi.napoli.it/en/index.html
                      "gobbled up" almost the entire Baltic, northern seas, and Mediterranean.
                      Buy it.
                      I will laugh
                      1. stalkerwalker
                        stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 20: 00 New
                        10
                        Quote: opus
                        Buy it.
                        I will laugh

                        Buy ....
                        And you laugh in vain ...
                        You provide lists of ships of eminent companies listed in the official lists in operation.
                        And how many of them are in Laid-up status, how many are unaccounted for and decommissioned (how are cars deregistered when there is no desire to pay taxes)?
                        Give the shipowners a call “Buy a container ship / bulk carrier / bulk carrier without valid register documents”, as your mailbox will burst from offers.
                        "They are not looking where it is light ..." laughing
                      2. opus
                        opus 24 October 2015 20: 53 New
                        +1
                        Quote: stalkerwalker
                        how your inbox will burst from offers.

                        maybe it will burst, only it will be junk that will drown before reaching our ports.
                        Quote: stalkerwalker
                        and (how is a car deregistered when there is no desire to pay taxes)?

                        1.Auto, we already DO NOT REMOVE, always pay taxes until you sell or recycle.
                        2. A commercial ship that does not bring money, but "stands without taxes" will devour itself, to maintain the life cycle.
                        The taxes there are spears,


                        all registered in their respective jurisdictions (Åland is an example)



                        Quote: stalkerwalker
                        how many unaccounted for and decommissioned

                        How much?
                      3. stalkerwalker
                        stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 21: 58 New
                        +3
                        Quote: opus
                        How much?

                        Take a ride on the "slop berths" from Amsterdam to Antwerp ...
                        Take a look at Hong Kong, Shanghai.
                        Count ... yourself ...
                      4. Sea Wolf
                        Sea Wolf 26 October 2015 07: 03 New
                        +1
                        Dear experts. No need to use the word ship, in relation to merchant ships. A ship is a military ship and it does not belong to merchant ships in any way. The ship enjoys the right of extraterritoriality, in contrast to the merchant ship, which obeys all the laws of the host country. I don’t understand where the illiterate people come from.
                    3. Ezhaak
                      Ezhaak 25 October 2015 13: 53 New
                      +1
                      Quote: opus
                      Cars we already "DO NOT REMOVE"

                      Dear, I must disappoint you. You simply are not up to date and measure everything from the bell of a motorist. Garage owner Deletes any car that has been repaired for a long time. And not only. A new, just bought a car can last a year or more, stand without numbers and only the owner is marked in the documents, but it is not used. What, how and why, these questions are to the owners of the garages. The main thing is that I watched this with my own eyes, how the zealot rushed into the traffic police to remove or register both tractors and trailers.
              2. OlegLex
                OlegLex 26 October 2015 20: 53 New
                0
                What a stupid thing !!! excuse me but you can’t
                What you can’t buy for money - you can buy for big money
                For example, you can’t buy a homeland, you can sell it and there are enough of them in our history, but buy it - NO !!!
                And this is yours
                Quote: stalkerwalker Buy container ships (under any flag) - a matter of a couple of weeks.
                Yes, you at least fill in the green paper with the heads of all the officials, they will say thank you, they will take the money and send it to Durkee. There is such an international law called the Law of the Sea where each object of maritime transport is equated to a property with a complex system of registration and confirmation of law, so two weeks - three times ha, I’m already silent about how all offices from intelligence are excited if suddenly someone urgently searches for container ships .
            3. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 12: 57 New
              11
              Quote: opus
              The specifics of the cargo fleet of the Russian Federation is determined by the nature of the cargo.

              And here - sad ....
              Under the flag of the Russian Federation, it shies away across the seas that you cannot call a modern fleet.
              And there are no prospects. In the fleet department of the Ministry of Transport sits chili peppers who lobby for the construction of ONLY river-sea-class ships - in this segment he has his own business.
              The Russian ocean fleet is, alas, a Tokma dream.
              1. msm
                msm 25 October 2015 16: 08 New
                +4
                And why not just shoot such cunning pepper?
            4. veksha50
              veksha50 24 October 2015 15: 26 New
              +4
              Quote: opus
              the reality is that we have virtually no merchant fleet


              Bulk carriers were needed for the "Syrian express" - how quickly they bought from the same Turkey ...

              There would be money and desire along with the need ...
              1. opus
                opus 24 October 2015 19: 31 New
                +3
                Quote: veksha50
                Bulk carriers were needed for the "Syrian express" - over there, as quickly purchased from the same Turkey ..

                This is a trifle and buckets, in fact.
                As soon as the “purchase” of container ships goes, the hedgehog is clear for what (even if not for Caliber / Club, but for the auxiliary fleet.
                Block. and no sale
          2. atalef
            atalef 24 October 2015 12: 14 New
            +6
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            Buy container ships (under any flag) is a matter of a couple of weeks.

            The use of civilian vessels as combat vessels (we are talking about the presence of strike weapons on their sides) is PROHIBITED by ALL CONVENTIONS and is equated to PIRACY.
            Point.
            Therefore, this container here, NEVER I repeat - NEVER will be loaded on board a civilian vessel and transferred to combat duty.
            The topic of dreamers can be closed hi
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 12: 21 New
              +2
              Quote: atalef
              The use of civilian vessels as combat vessels (we are talking about the presence of strike weapons on their sides) is PROHIBITED by ALL CONVENTIONS and is equated to PIRACY.
              Point.
              Therefore, this container here, NEVER I repeat - NEVER will be loaded on board a civilian vessel and transferred to combat duty.

              Quote: stalkerwalker
              If these ships are assigned the status of auxiliary fleet ships (with the transfer under the flag of the Navy), and the cargo facilities are used for commercial cargo ....
              1. atalef
                atalef 24 October 2015 12: 27 New
                +4
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                Quote: atalef
                The use of civilian vessels as combat vessels (we are talking about the presence of strike weapons on their sides) is PROHIBITED by ALL CONVENTIONS and is equated to PIRACY.
                Point.
                Therefore, this container here, NEVER I repeat - NEVER will be loaded on board a civilian vessel and transferred to combat duty.

                Quote: stalkerwalker
                If these ships are assigned the status of auxiliary fleet ships (with the transfer under the flag of the Navy), and the cargo facilities are used for commercial cargo ....

                Transferring a ship under the flag of the Navy, it automatically becomes a unit of the Navy, with all the ensuing circumstances i.e.
                Loss of stealth
                Spying on him
                The possibility of destroying it, taking it for bail, detention, etc. in the first minutes of an armed conflict or exacerbating the situation
                And if all these problems - why take a dry cargo ship. and make yourself hemorrhoids? If for the same task there are warships of the Navy, only protected and designed to perform the corresponding tasks?
                1. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 12: 38 New
                  +7
                  Quote: atalef
                  If for the same task there are warships of the Navy, only protected and designed to perform the corresponding tasks?

                  That’s why nobody boarded the converted British ships sailing to the Falklands.
                  The vessels of the auxiliary fleet of the Navy have the same rights as warships.
                  Stealth? But who needs it? The policy of the gunboats, which has become the policy of the aircraft carriers, will be replaced by the policy of raiders.
                  "Protection" of any warship within 2-3 miles - its requirement not to get closer than 2 miles. Armadillos are a thing of the past. Modern ships, in addition to heavy machine guns onboard, have nothing to protect against IMMEDIATE danger at a distance of 10-50 m.
            2. veksha50
              veksha50 24 October 2015 15: 29 New
              +6
              Quote: atalef
              Therefore, this container here, NEVER I repeat - NEVER will be loaded on board a civilian vessel and transferred to combat duty.



              As they say ... "Never say Never" ...

              Everything in this world is changing ... Of course, I’m 100% not sure - I didn’t have access to this information, according to the fleets, but during the confrontation between the USSR and the USA there was muddy information about the presence of double “chameleon ships” destination ...
              1. atalef
                atalef 24 October 2015 16: 58 New
                +1
                Quote: veksha50
                As they say ... "Never say Never" ...

                no, well, to be honest, there are lines that you can’t cross, because someone else can equip them the same way. Then catch them in the seas. Well, for example, Georgia.
                Quote: veksha50
                Everything in this world is changing ... Of course, I’m 100% not sure - I didn’t have access to this information, according to the fleets, but during the confrontation between the USSR and the USA there was muddy information about the presence of double “chameleon ships” destination.

                it wasn’t, the law of the sea, it’s generally very tough.
                1. Throw
                  Throw 24 October 2015 18: 13 New
                  +6
                  Use civilian vessels as combat vessels (we are talking about the presence of strike weapons on their sides) - PROHIBITED BY ALL CONVENTIONS

                  1. We do not use the ship as a combat ship, but simply transport a container.
                  Like tanks on dry cargo ships ..)

                  2. Weapons on civilian ships are, for example, to protect against the same pirates.

                  3. War, including cold, all conventions cheer.

                  4. During the last Cold War, there were missile and torpedo weapons on some civilian vessels.

                  Well, the law of the sea .. You still remember the international .. laughing
                2. atalef
                  atalef 24 October 2015 18: 59 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Lance
                  We do not use the ship as a combat ship, but simply transport a container.
                  Like tanks on dry cargo ships ..)

                  in this case use
                  Quote: Lance
                  Weapons on civilian ships are, for example, to protect against the same pirates.

                  nothing like that. Get acquainted with the topic
                  security companies load their personnel in neutral waters, with their weapons, when approaching territorial waters, go back to the ship.
                  Carriage of military weapons in civilian vessels - prohibited by maritime law
                  Quote: Lance
                  War, including cold, all conventions cheer.

                  Do not write nonsense
                  Quote: Lance
                  During the last cold war, missile and torpedo weapons on some civilian ships were

                  In an alternate universe
                  Quote: Lance
                  Well, the law of the sea .. You still remember the international ..

                  Peace to you hi
                3. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 19: 45 New
                  +4
                  Quote: atalef
                  nothing like that. Get acquainted with the topic
                  security companies load their personnel in neutral waters, with their weapons, when approaching territorial waters, go back to the ship.
                  Carriage of military weapons in civilian vessels - prohibited by maritime law

                  Alexander.
                  Let me give you an example, the reverse and sad, what and how can be downloaded ....
                  When a trawler drowned in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk in the spring, it turned out that there the partitions were "quietly" removed from the register, and the "guest workers" were planted past the checkout ...
                  And you say neutral waters ...
                  It would be a wish ...
                4. atalef
                  atalef 24 October 2015 21: 41 New
                  0
                  Quote: stalkerwalker
                  lexander.
                  Let me give you an example, the reverse and sad, what and how can be downloaded ....
                  When a trawler drowned in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk in the spring, it turned out that there the partitions were "quietly" removed from the register, and the "guest workers" were planted past the checkout ...
                  And you say neutral waters ...
                  It would be a wish ...

                  Understand correctly.
                  You are confusing between 2 things, a thief captain and an indication of the official state structures to use civil courts for military purposes.
                  This will instantly cause an automatic search of all Russian vessels and vessels under the suspicion of Russian ones. A ban on freight, cabotage and calls at ports.
                  There are rules and laws. get around that cost much more than deliver the caliber to the shores of America
                  After all, it’s possible to equip a hidden compartment and carry missiles in aircraft = x (civilians), in general, you can fly into the USA - doesn’t it seem that an even more interesting option?
                  Why not take it into service?
                  Yes, in a global mess there are rules that everyone understands. going them --- yourself more expensive.
                  Therefore, the CLUB will never be on civilian courts. NEVER - unless of course the authorities are adequate.
                5. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 22: 01 New
                  +2
                  Quote: atalef
                  Therefore, the CLUB will never be on civilian courts. NEVER - unless of course the authorities are adequate.

                  Alexander, I mean ONLY the vessels of the auxiliary fleet under the flag of the Navy.
                  And I do not argue that civilian vessels DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to have ANY types of weapons on board.
                6. andj61
                  andj61 24 October 2015 22: 19 New
                  0
                  Quote: stalkerwalker
                  itata: atalef
                  Therefore, the CLUB will never be on civilian courts. NEVER - unless of course the authorities are adequate.
                  Alexander, I mean ONLY the vessels of the auxiliary fleet under the flag of the Navy.
                  And I do not argue that civilian vessels DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to have ANY types of weapons on board.

                  And if the
                  Quote: stalkerwalker
                  Quote: atalef
                  Therefore, the CLUB will never be on civilian courts. NEVER - unless of course the authorities are adequate.

                  Alexander, I mean ONLY the vessels of the auxiliary fleet under the flag of the Navy.
                  And I do not argue that civilian vessels DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to have ANY types of weapons on board.

                  And if these Clabs are, for example, on American container ships?
                  In transit, no one ever inspects shipping containers in transit. bully
                7. atalef
                  atalef 24 October 2015 22: 28 New
                  0
                  Quote: andj61
                  And if these Clabs are, for example, on American container ships?
                  In transit, no one ever inspects shipping containers in transit.

                  i.e. Clabs on American?
                  Andrei - no adequate country will accept such a flagrant violation of the law of the sea.
                  Not real
                  Quote: andj61
                  firstly, on civilian planes it’s not possible to place any kind of RC - discreetly - and, moreover, to use it

                  really
                  everything is real
                  Quote: andj61
                  And the captain of the container ship transporting this container will not even know that he has on his ship one of the Caliber variants, conditionally called the Club!

                  I say it again. if God forbid it shows up, this is the end. Secret transportation of 2 KR. never be compared with the damage that it does.
                  Well, look at things adequately.

                  Quote: andj61
                  . But even if they find out - it’s difficult to identify the import option as a Russian-owned product!

                  Come on . Well Andrey. then there are no suckers.
                  Quote: andj61
                  And, most likely, they will find out and keep silent, so as not to show at what really low level the security of the greatest and most powerful country in the world turned out to be.

                  In the same day . scandal will develop to universal proportions. The entire Russian container network will be paralyzed. containers and civilian vessels to be inspected. Niodine foreign ship will not take Russian containers for transportation Niodine cargo will not be insured
                  No company will insure the goods. close the straits or complicate the full inspection - and nothing. nothing you can do.
                  The flat board. for the transport of a couple of dozen KR.
                8. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 22: 34 New
                  +2
                  Quote: andj61
                  In transit, no one ever inspects shipping containers in transit.

                  This is a huge risk for the shipowner and for the "copyright holder of the tricky container."
                  Odds - 50x50 ...
                  Remember what noise was around the Arctic sea steamboat captured in the Baltic - EVERYTHING in Europe claimed that there were Russian MANPADS on board for Arab "terrorists", because the ship made regular voyages to countries in northern Africa from Finland and Sweden.
                  Suspicions aboard the Club will lead to endless seizures and searches. None of the OWNERS will take such a risk. Unless the shipowner is a navy.
              2. atalef
                atalef 24 October 2015 22: 32 New
                -1
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                Alexander, I mean ONLY the vessels of the auxiliary fleet under the flag of the Navy.
                And I do not argue that civilian vessels DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to have ANY types of weapons on board.

                This is another matter, but what is the plus 7 all-terrain court of the fleet in this. become automatic under the supervision and in the event of the discovery of containers on board or something dangerous. will be accompanied all the way by the saloons of the NATO fleet or the NATO Air Force.
                So what have you achieved?
                Unprotected civil (military flag) ships. carry clubs. and they won’t be able to apply it all the same (unless of course the captain and team are not suicides)
              3. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 22: 45 New
                +3
                Quote: atalef
                This is another matter, but what is the plus 7 all-terrain court of the fleet in this. become automatic under the supervision and in the event of the discovery of containers on board or something dangerous. will be accompanied all the way by the saloons of the NATO fleet or the NATO Air Force.

                Let the headquarters of the Navy "headache" ... laughing
                Nevertheless ... Where is the guarantee that such containers ALREADY DO NOT STAND on the vessels of the auxiliary fleet?
                WHO DARKS to stop such a boat on the road from Novorossiysk to Latakia / Tartus, from St. Petersburg to Baltiysk?
                The Caribbean crisis is far away. But even then attempts to stop the CIVIL VESSELS heading to Cuba were unsuccessful.
                Quote: atalef
                Unprotected civil (military flag) ships. carry clubs. and they won’t be able to apply it all the same (unless of course the captain and team are not suicides)

                Well. Sasha .... This is not an argument .... ALL military sailors of ALL fleets of the world took the oath ...
          3. andj61
            andj61 24 October 2015 22: 16 New
            0
            Quote: atalef
            There are rules and laws. get around that cost much more than deliver the caliber to the shores of America
            After all, it’s possible to equip a hidden compartment and carry missiles in aircraft = x (civilians), in general, you can fly into the USA - doesn’t it seem that an even more interesting option?
            Why not take it into service?
            Yes, in a global mess there are rules that everyone understands. going them --- yourself more expensive.
            Therefore, the CLUB will never be on civilian courts. NEVER - unless of course the authorities are adequate.

            Well, firstly, it’s secretive to place any kind of RC on civilian planes, and even more so, to use it is simply not realistic. But in a 40-foot sea container - like two fingers on the asphalt! And the captain of the container ship transporting this container will not even know that he has on his ship one of the Caliber variants, conditionally called the Club! yes
            Perhaps these containers are already walking around the ball, redirected to where necessary at the right time. And no one can simply track them. By the way, in the case of transit, they are also not subject to inspection. But even if they find out - it’s difficult to identify the import option as a Russian-owned product! And, most likely, they will find out and keep silent, so as not to show at what really low level the security of the greatest and most powerful country in the world turned out to be. bully hi
          4. 97110
            97110 25 October 2015 16: 24 New
            +1
            Quote: atalef
            Therefore, the CLUB will never be on civilian courts. NEVER - unless of course the authorities are adequate.

            I agree. Given the position of shipowners, charterers, it is all the more unrealistic.
        2. 97110
          97110 25 October 2015 16: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          When a trawler drowned in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk in spring,

          Shipowners working in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk are well aware of the registry inspector. If he does not recognize them, then they know well what kindergarten (school) his children go to. You did not say that the trawler entered the Japanese (Chinese) port before drowning. Try with places of davits that do not correspond to the Paris Memorandum of 200 mm, call at the Swedish port.
      2. BARKHAN
        BARKHAN 24 October 2015 20: 10 New
        +9
        I don’t remember during the cold ... but during the Second World War, British civilian ships were equipped with guns and machine guns (I don’t remember the terminology, far from the whole sea) to fight German submarines. The guns were disguised. And the vessel looked harmless. in order not to spend a torpedo they came up, for firing a deck gun. Then the British dropped their disguises and shot the enemy themselves. According to the stories of the British, they sank more than one boat. I personally saw documentary footage on Discovery.
        If a world war starts, in our crazy time, EVERYTHING can happen. And violation of the law of the sea can seem like babble. The warehouses and laboratories are full of chemical and bacteriological weapons. Not to mention what we don’t know at all.
      3. Lenin
        Lenin 26 October 2015 18: 38 New
        0
        In fact, even after the war, civilian ships designed places for installing minimal weapons in case of military operations.
        In general, only one thing pleases. That we will cover everyone again. wassat laughing
  2. Felix1
    Felix1 25 October 2015 02: 16 New
    -11
    Well, the law of the sea .. You still remember the international.

    Is this not the first time that Russia has violated?
  3. andj61
    andj61 25 October 2015 12: 55 New
    +2
    Quote: Felix1
    Well, the law of the sea .. You still remember the international.

    Is this not the first time that Russia has violated?

    And once again? what
    It turns out interesting - gentlemen from the United States, and earlier - from the United Kingdom for hundreds of years set their own rules, and then, if it is profitable for them to break themselves, then they are changed, or they say that it was special, exclusive and unlike anything happening. And for others, the rules are set much tougher than for oneself, loved ones. If you clearly and firmly approach these rules, then the United States would NEVER be an independent state, but would now be a colony of Great Britain. At the same time, South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Crimea were denied self-determination, and Kosovo, where there was not even a referendum, was declared a special case. If the Americans and their singers think that everyone will always play according to their rules, they are mistaken, according to their rules, only vassals and satellites will play - that’s all.
  4. 97110
    97110 25 October 2015 16: 03 New
    0
    Quote: Lance
    2. Weapons on civilian ships are, for example, to protect against the same pirates.

    Do you know for sure, or did one-legged Silver remember? At one time, friends tried to convey a storm of emotions that rages in the soul of a master in, for example, the Libyan port. You can’t pour a port state representative — you don’t respect the port state with the ensuing consequences — they know about the representative offices that are in CTM. You get alcohol from a safe in a Muslim state - you do not respect the state of the port. The practice of hiring an armed guard that leaves the front of the territorial waters border exists. For the first time I hear about the modern practice of arming ships (not ships - NB!) For protection against pirates. Or is the Egoza product on the sides and a pipka with cold water a weapon?
  5. veksha50
    veksha50 24 October 2015 20: 29 New
    0
    Quote: atalef
    Then catch them in the seas. well, for example Georgia.



    Who will give them something like Caliber-Club give-sell ???
  6. atalef
    atalef 24 October 2015 20: 53 New
    0
    Quote: veksha50
    Who will give them something like Caliber-Club give-sell ???

    And what are the alternatives?
  7. Shishiga
    Shishiga 25 October 2015 17: 11 New
    0
    it wasn’t, the law of the sea, it’s generally very tough.


    Not speak what .. well, you know better wassat laughing

    Military Industrial Complex: This time, dual-purpose ships and even ships for the civilian fleet were presented at Evronaval.

    - And we go in line with these trends. The new ship, which Rosoboronexport OJSC is promoting to the world market, has become an ice-class research vessel. We intend to provide technical assistance in the organization of its construction at the shipyards of the customer. The vessel is designed to solve research problems in the Antarctic region, in particular for geophysical and seismic exploration, as well as for engineering preparation for the development of future deposits. This project has absorbed many years of experience of the Russian designers of the icebreaker fleet and is putting into practice the fundamental scientific developments of recent years.
    Read more: http://vpk-news.ru/articles/13030

    Caribbean crisis recall ??
    Something like that recourse tongue

  • Felix1
    Felix1 25 October 2015 02: 12 New
    -4
    After the discovery of such a chameleon ship on one side, the other side will have the full moral right to bomb any civilian ship of the first side,
  • Alex_Rarog
    Alex_Rarog 24 October 2015 18: 25 New
    +2
    The winners are not judged) if in order to destroy the enemy it is necessary to use a civilian vessel with such containers it is used! Mattresses have already remade civilian ships ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Tiamat2702
    Tiamat2702 24 October 2015 22: 17 New
    +2
    Quote: atalef
    The use of civilian vessels as combat vessels (we are talking about the presence of strike weapons on their sides) is PROHIBITED by ALL CONVENTIONS and is equated to PIRACY.
    Point.
    Therefore, this container here, NEVER I repeat - NEVER will be loaded on board a civilian vessel and transferred to combat duty.
    The topic of dreamers can be closed


    You are so naive
  • ancient
    ancient 24 October 2015 13: 10 New
    +2
    Quote: stalkerwalker
    If these ships are assigned the status of auxiliary fleet ships (with the transfer under the flag of the Navy), and the cargo facilities are used for commercial cargo ....


    It remains only to take these ships somewhere .. "auxiliary fleet", but the fact that they "purchased" from the Turks 8 pieces of used cargo ships ... so they .. "without tears" .. you will not look , and reviews about this .. "acquisition" you can read on the internet .. there are already a lot .. "information" wink
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 13: 20 New
      +5
      Quote: ancient
      It remains only to take these ships somewhere .. "auxiliary fleet", but the fact that they "purchased" from the Turks 8 pieces of used cargo ships ... so they .. "without tears" .. you will not look , and reviews about this .. "acquisition" you can read on the internet .. there are already a lot .. "information"

      Moscow managers are people without shame and conscience ...
      They allocated the loot for a great cause, and they filled up the entire sowing ...
      I haven’t read reviews, but I’m sure that the “dead steamers” were carried out in reports at the price of a pair of green lams, with their nominal value of 500-700 thousand.
      Such as Vasilyeva, around Moscow region like mosquitoes in a swamp .... fellow
  • vrach
    vrach 25 October 2015 08: 36 New
    +2
    Container ships, container ships, but there is the same expression Moscow port 5 of the seas. I do not understand why 5? But four for sure. Due to river communications and the use of river-sea-class ships, Lake Ladoga can also be a wonderful launch site for calibers. And the same Buyan would symbolically look on the Moscow River near the Kremlin. So, the geography of launches due to the internal river communications of the country connected by channels is much more diverse.
  • veksha50
    veksha50 24 October 2015 15: 22 New
    +1
    Quote: opus
    upset.
    Almost no container ships under the Russian flag.


    Under the Russian flag, there are a lot of ships that don’t ...

    And now for fun, but the real news today: "Pirates captured Russian floating shipping vessel flying the flag of the Komodor Islands and having crew of citizens of Russia and Ukraine"...

    In the morning I went down a bit, reading this ... by the way, RIA Novosti ...
    1. atalef
      atalef 24 October 2015 16: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: veksha50
      And now for fun, but the real news is today: "Pirates seized a Russian refrigerator ship flying the flag of the Komodor Islands and having a crew of citizens of Russia and Ukraine" ..

      Poor countries sell their flag (for freight ships) - so taxes are less
      countries with the largest merchant fleet
      Liberia - the largest merchant fleet, Panama - tanker fleet
  • varov14
    varov14 24 October 2015 20: 08 New
    0
    So under someone else’s flag is even better, a real Trojan horse.
  • Armored optimist
    Armored optimist 24 October 2015 16: 44 New
    +2
    Below is a long dispute about the placement of such containers on container ships. But they can also be transported by land throughout the country. And we measure ranges only from the Black and Caspian. Taking into account ground-based and the 2000 km range announced by the Ministry of Defense, it is not necessary to draw circles, but a strip of this width parallel to the entire border. From Kola to Nakhodka.
    1. opus
      opus 24 October 2015 19: 41 New
      +1
      Quote: armored optimist
      But they can also be transported by land throughout the country.

      Meaning?
      1. When it is possible to carry on OWN land on specialized PU KR.
      2. There are not so many KR (ZM-14), they are few.
      It takes 10-12 years to reach a potential of 1-1500 pieces
      1. Armored optimist
        Armored optimist 25 October 2015 05: 36 New
        0
        1. The meaning is disguise. "Across the country" and "by land" in my opinion is equivalent.
        2. Rogozin said - 2020 surpass in quantity and quality
  • Sergeant Pank
    Sergeant Pank 24 October 2015 11: 20 New
    +5
    And here are the photos.
    1. Sergeant Pank
      Sergeant Pank 24 October 2015 11: 24 New
      +2
      This is "Caliber." Previous rumored container "Uranus".
      1. Sergeant Pank
        Sergeant Pank 24 October 2015 18: 05 New
        +1
        Here is a photo found.
        1. Sergeant Pank
          Sergeant Pank 24 October 2015 18: 19 New
          +2
          It turns out someone should sit.
          1. Sergeant Pank
            Sergeant Pank 24 October 2015 18: 20 New
            0
            It remains to figure out who gives TSU.
    2. Altona
      Altona 24 October 2015 12: 32 New
      +1
      Quote: Sergeant Pank
      And here are the photos.

      ------------------
      It is perfectly arranged and disguised among other things ... In the spirit of James Bond, if someone likes how the West packs their weapons ... An ordinary sea container on the outside, a snuffbox with a little devil inside ...
  • akm8226
    akm8226 24 October 2015 13: 52 New
    0
    Soviet engineers can do anything!
  • meriem1
    meriem1 24 October 2015 08: 31 New
    11
    Quote: afdjhbn67
    Quote: crazyrom
    but she’s already 2 weeks (15 days), somehow too late.

    This is the site administrators put, and then probably neigh from the rise of cheers-patriotism ..



    It is better to shout URA to Russian weapons, albeit with a delay, than to chew on a useless liberal nipple !!! Of course you can bite the admins))) In our country, Freedom! Finding in your head a non-trivial phrase is much more difficult.
    1. afdjhbn67
      afdjhbn67 24 October 2015 08: 59 New
      +4
      Quote: meriem1
      Finding in your head a non-trivial phrase is much more difficult.

      Moderators do not skip non-trivial phrases .. crying wassat
      Better shout out URA to Russian weapons, albeit with a delay,

      Do not brake - sneakers .. laughing
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 24 October 2015 11: 01 New
        +2
        Quote: afdjhbn67
        Do not brake - sneakers

        I personally like our chocolate somehow more.
        1. ancient
          ancient 24 October 2015 12: 41 New
          +7
          Quote: Dart2027
          I personally like our chocolate somehow more.


          Now, if you also pointed out .. what is "our chocoladoade" .... it would be generally .. interesting .. maybe there’s also a story about "our coffee"? wassat (about a new technology for the production of coffee not from beans, but from .. husk) lol

          Although in my time I made coffee and from acorns for SA and ... nothing ... drank with pleasure drinks
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 24 October 2015 13: 46 New
            -2
            Quote: ancient
            Now, if you also indicated .. what is "our chocoladoade"

            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B8%
            D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8_%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BF%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9
            1. ancient
              ancient 24 October 2015 15: 30 New
              +1
              Quote: Dart2027
              https://ru.wikipedia


              Read (quote from your link) -"Since 2012, the factory began to be mothballed and part of the production transferred to the Razbegaevo site, in the summer of 2014 the factory was finally closed and sold to the development company Pioneer for the development of its territory by a public and business center." wassat

              So where is ... "our .. chocolate"? request
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 24 October 2015 17: 04 New
                -2
                Quote: ancient
                in Razbegaevo

                http://irecommend.ru/content/pokupayu-etot-shokolad-dlya-ukrasheniya-tortov-v-ts
                elom-ne-plokhoi-foto-ocherednogo-tortika
                1. ancient
                  ancient 24 October 2015 20: 35 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  http://irecommend.ru/content/pokupayu-etot-shokolad-dlya-ukrasheniya-tortov-v-ts

                  elom-ne-plokhoi-foto-ocherednogo-tortika


                  And read it wink The first thing I saw was in BALSTER letters ... "DARK, DESSERT with additions" .... do you feel sorry for your children? wink

                  Well, the composition: "It contains soya lecithin, without which, alas, not a single chocolate or chocolate candy can do in our time" .. the truth is that the lady didn’t write from the feeling of “urea-patriotism .....” in our RF " lol

                  It would be better to write right away .... "palm oil slightly tinted with the addition of dry cocoa (this is tinted starch)" .. but .. so write nizya lol

                  You had pretty good coffee in St. Petersburg .. "Jockey", but now .... no words ... some obscene wassat
                2. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 20: 51 New
                  +2
                  Quote: ancient
                  You had pretty good coffee in St. Petersburg .. "Jockey", but now .... no words ... some obscene

                  "Jockey" was never coffee (?) ...
                  This is a coffee drink. Like the supposedly French Jardin.
                3. Felix1
                  Felix1 25 October 2015 20: 23 New
                  0
                  or who remembers kurzeme.
          2. BARKHAN
            BARKHAN 24 October 2015 20: 22 New
            +6
            Gentlemen, eat honey! Our patriotic bees! wink Our nectar, dear! Water is generally exceptional! good I got myself bees last year, nafig chemistry. Honey, cakes, cookies, propolis, bee bread and ... HONEY !!! drinks
            1. ancient
              ancient 24 October 2015 20: 39 New
              0
              Quote: Barkhan
              Gentlemen, eat honey! Our patriotic bees!


              That's what I’m doing ... a neighbor keeps an apiary in Matveyevo-Kurgan region .. I’ll take it only from him .. in the house there is no sugar at all .. drinks

              Quote: Barkhan
              ! Water is generally exceptional!


              It's just not about the Rostov region ... worse than water, probably not anywhere recourse

              Therefore, there is no European CAR PLANT in the area .. some Asians and Chinese bully
  • ancient
    ancient 24 October 2015 12: 38 New
    +1
    Quote: meriem1
    In our country, Freedom! Finding in your head a non-trivial phrase is much more difficult.


    Freedom and "verbiage" on the topic .. and on Mars apple trees will bloom these slightly different things.

    Shouting Russian weapons URA must be done, but .. not in such a “way” as the author does! sad
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 24 October 2015 13: 47 New
      0
      Quote: ancient
      Yelling Russian weapons URA must

      Have you ever done this? So far, all of your posts that I saw one continuous "chef all gone !!!"
      1. ancient
        ancient 24 October 2015 15: 32 New
        +3
        Quote: Dart2027
        So far, all of your posts that I saw one continuous "chef all gone !!!"


        Not quite everything, something is there, but ... exactly ... SOMETHING, unfortunately.
        Well, black is called white .. it’s not for me .... there are more than half of them .. solid “Urya” and “KU” lol
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 24 October 2015 16: 57 New
          +1
          Quote: ancient
          Well, black is called white .. it's not for me

          And what is black and white here? Characteristics of spent missiles with targeting on a map?
          1. ancient
            ancient 24 October 2015 20: 41 New
            +2
            Quote: Dart2027
            And what is black and white here?


            In komenta I painted everything in detail ... the author ... "not ale" wassat

            Quote: Dart2027
            Characteristics of spent missiles with targeting on a map?


            And what does it have to do with it? belay
        2. BARKHAN
          BARKHAN 24 October 2015 20: 25 New
          +5
          And does this offend you? Everyone has the right to any statement, in any form convenient for him (of course, within the framework of the site’s rules)
  • rkkasa xnumx
    rkkasa xnumx 24 October 2015 08: 53 New
    +5
    Quote: afdjhbn67
    This is the site administrators put, and then probably neigh from the rise of cheers-patriotism ..

    I’m far from ur-patriotism (more likely even a pessimist), but if the article is good, then I don’t give a damn, admins laugh there or cry.
    If you would argue against the article, then another matter.
    1. afdjhbn67
      afdjhbn67 24 October 2015 09: 02 New
      +5
      Quote: rkkasa 81
      If you would argue against the article, then another matter.

      the article is stupid .. hedgehog it’s clear that on the map and in reality everything is different, you don’t have to be either a strategist or a tactician + calibers turned into a prodigy
      1. Das Boot
        Das Boot 24 October 2015 09: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: afdjhbn67
        the article is stupid .. hedgehog it’s clear that on the map and in reality everything is different, you don’t have to be a strategist or tactician

        I agree to all 100. The author is a cap with a theodolite.
        Quote: afdjhbn67
        + calibers turned into a prodigy

        but URAkraratia has a new favorite argument. Tests on the Bikini Atoll gave birth to a well-known trend in fashion. Interestingly, but Caliber Che, worse? Where are the marketers?
        1. vorobey
          vorobey 24 October 2015 09: 42 New
          +9
          Quote: Das Boot
          Quote: afdjhbn67
          the article is stupid .. hedgehog it’s clear that on the map and in reality everything is different, you don’t have to be a strategist or tactician

          I agree to all 100. The author is a cap with a theodolite.
          Quote: afdjhbn67
          + calibers turned into a prodigy

          but URAkraratia has a new favorite argument. Tests on the Bikini Atoll gave birth to a well-known trend in fashion. Interestingly, but Caliber Che, worse? Where are the marketers?


          why the article is stupid ... I’m not a rocket launcher for example, and for me there was something new in the article which I frankly didn’t know and did not delve into simply ...
          1. Das Boot
            Das Boot 24 October 2015 09: 56 New
            +2
            Quote: vorobey
            why the article is stupid ... I'm not a rocketeer for example, and for me there was something new in the article

            modernized dialogue of the Gogol men about the wheel.
            1. afdjhbn67
              afdjhbn67 24 October 2015 10: 05 New
              +2
              Quote: Das Boot
              modernized dialogue of the Gogol men about the wheel.


              Well, yes, and while we are conducting a dialogue, the "patriots" will give us minuses as usual when there are no arguments .. laughing
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 24 October 2015 11: 02 New
                +1
                Do you have any clear arguments proving that the article is bad?
                1. ancient
                  ancient 24 October 2015 12: 48 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Do you have any clear arguments proving that the article is bad?


                  Read above .... intelligibly, in my opinion explained, even for especially fellow it should be clear that the author fool
                2. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 24 October 2015 13: 44 New
                  0
                  The article explains in detail and clearly what is the real radius of destruction of cruise missiles from the World Cup and the Caspian. Everything is simple, intelligible and logical. If there are errors, please indicate which ones.
                3. ancient
                  ancient 24 October 2015 15: 33 New
                  0
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  If there are errors, please indicate which ones.


                  For two comments (one repeating), go down the branch and ... read .. on health drinks
          2. coconut
            coconut 24 October 2015 11: 18 New
            +1
            And why the hell!
          3. coconut
            coconut 24 October 2015 11: 18 New
            +2
            And why the hell!
      2. ancient
        ancient 24 October 2015 12: 35 New
        +8
        Quote: vorobey
        why the article is stupid ...


        Sasha, yes because ... The Earth does not have the shape of a ball, but the Krasovsky ellipsoid, and the author is trying to "pull" the orthodrome on a sphere (the shortest distance between points) on a plane.
        And in realities, even on the plane of the line, it never works out, because. all the same, there are angles of convergence of the meridians wink
        therefore, on the LZP map (the line of a given flight will look like this wink

        Now, according to his .. "new pictures" .... not at any gate (if you take the distance to the target of 2 km), or along the North-South line along the West-East line .. (Here the borders are just correctly drawn in red circles ) wink

        You can calculate it yourself - at a latitude of 45 degrees, the length of the 1 degree arc along the meridian is 111,1 km (the typical value of the orthodromic grid of all ICs (inertial systems in the Northern Hemisphere), so you take any length and ... you’ll wink
        But according to the meridian .. here, in general, the afftor .. "congestion" because the arc length is 1 degree in parallel at a latitude of 40 degrees (took the coordinates of the launch area "Caliber")
        85,4 km, then at a latitude of 70 degrees (this is already 37 km as the afftor) and its "drawing has a distance of 4 km along the line of the launch zone-Northern border (!!!!) wassat

        But the red circles are drawn almost correctly, because. The northern border of the range of application is in the Syktyvkar region wink

        So afftor a fat minus and let him go studying .. CARTOGRAPHY! soldier

        And to all who plus the article ... it should be a shame ... it is clear that "ur-patriotism" is necessary, but .. not to the same extent lol

        AND PERSONAL TO AFFORATOR your quote is “And there were also such circles there. One glance at this craft was enough for me to understand that the card was fake. But because since childhood I’ve been an“ avid gambler ”and“ globeophile. ”

        Before you "pull" yourself or "position" yourself by someone else ... you must at least have ELEMENTARY REPRESENTATIONS about what to write about .. and then .. NOT CONVENIENTLY turns out .. took and .. SUBMITTED THE SITE ADMINISTRATION recourse
        1. ancient
          ancient 24 October 2015 12: 53 New
          +2
          Quote: ancient
          therefore, on the LZP map (the line of a given flight will look like this


          Sasha, forgot the "visual aid" .. attach drinks

        2. Das Boot
          Das Boot 24 October 2015 14: 04 New
          +4
          ancient

          great human merci for comment.
          1. ancient
            ancient 24 October 2015 15: 36 New
            +3
            Quote: Das Boot
            great human merci for comment.


            Not at all, +! drinksIt is simply surprising that the article has already been TESTED already by 138 members of the forum belay
            What is this happening? request
            1. afdjhbn67
              afdjhbn67 24 October 2015 15: 42 New
              +4
              Quote: ancient
              What is this happening?


              And propaganda works well, this is undoubtedly a plus for Kremlin ideologists, but the fact that people aged do not subject critical analysis to Old is a minus .. hi
      3. BARKHAN
        BARKHAN 24 October 2015 20: 30 New
        +4
        And here, imagine the whole tolerant Europe crawling with rulers and compasses on maps and globes. Even if they stop sleeping, this is already half the battle (as our trusting neighbors say). Thank you Uncle Vova.
    2. afdjhbn67
      afdjhbn67 24 October 2015 09: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: Das Boot
      Tests on the Bikini Atoll gave birth to a well-known trend in fashion. Interestingly, but Caliber Che, worse? Where are the marketers?


      Guys will now measure with calibers ... laughing
  • rkkasa xnumx
    rkkasa xnumx 24 October 2015 09: 36 New
    +7
    Quote: afdjhbn67
    stupid article .. hedgehog it’s clear that on the map and in reality everything is different

    Approx.
    For you, the real zone of defeat may not have been a secret. I (and judging by the kamenty, not only me) did not know this. Just did not think about it.

    Quote: afdjhbn67
    calibers turned into a prodigy

    I agree.
    1. afdjhbn67
      afdjhbn67 24 October 2015 09: 50 New
      +1
      Quote: rkkasa 81
      I agree.

      You see how easy it is to reach consensus .. drinks
      1. rkkasa xnumx
        rkkasa xnumx 24 October 2015 15: 58 New
        +2
        Quote: afdjhbn67
        You see how easy it is to reach consensus ..

        drinks
        My suggestion is to blame the ancient laughing
        What did he draw for a long time with his kamenty ?! Why were we forced to wait ?! am
        1. afdjhbn67
          afdjhbn67 25 October 2015 02: 26 New
          +1
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          What did he draw for a long time with his kamenty ?! Why were we forced to wait ?!

          So he is Ancient .. laughing
  • ancient
    ancient 24 October 2015 12: 46 New
    +2
    Quote: afdjhbn67
    stupid article


    +! drinks
    1. afdjhbn67
      afdjhbn67 24 October 2015 15: 25 New
      +1
      Quote: ancient
      ancient


      after your comments relieved .. hi drinks
      tired stubborn ..
  • kepmor
    kepmor 24 October 2015 12: 55 New
    +9
    I agree with you 100%. The effectiveness of the combat use of rocket launchers directly depends on the number of missiles in a salvo. The United States in Iraq fired dozens of Tomahawks at several targets simultaneously, i.e. massively, from PLPL, NKNK and aircraft, with the calculation of the simultaneous approach of missiles to the target from different directions. Circles on the map to draw, no big mind! The CRBMs are flying toward the target, including over foreign territory with a deeply echeloned air defense and missile defense system (NATO countries) and are quite vulnerable. And screaming at the top of our lungs that we now “Caliber” put the whole world in cancer, great stupidity! Much to our regret, we do not have a sufficient number of both CRBDs or their carriers today. Moderate your ardor of "Urakryakalki"! I’m waiting for the cons, I will never be a general here ...
    1. Kuzyakin15
      Kuzyakin15 24 October 2015 19: 48 New
      +3
      Quote: kepmor
      I agree with you 100%. The effectiveness of the combat use of rocket launchers directly depends on the number of missiles in a salvo. The United States in Iraq fired dozens of Tomahawks at several targets simultaneously, i.e. massively, from PLPL, NKNK and aircraft, with the calculation of the simultaneous approach of missiles to the target from different directions. Circles on the map to draw, no big mind! The CRBMs are flying toward the target, including over foreign territory with a deeply echeloned air defense and missile defense system (NATO countries) and are quite vulnerable. And screaming at the top of our lungs that we now “Caliber” put the whole world in cancer, great stupidity! Much to our regret, we do not have a sufficient number of both CRBDs or their carriers today. Moderate your ardor of "Urakryakalki"! I’m waiting for the cons, I will never be a general here ...

      100% ++
      They got rid of the goofs, at least in the beginning they asked how many carriers of Caliber we have and how many Caliber themselves
  • ancient
    ancient 24 October 2015 12: 46 New
    +2
    Quote: rkkasa 81
    but if the article is good


    The article is not "good", but MYSTERIOUS soldier and for the "artistic eggs" painted over ... "the greatest" avid gambler "and" globeophile ", his hands would ....." tear off " wassat
    Is the "avid gambler" the one who "rummages through the minuscule without two hostesses"? lol so maybe the author should position himself with the engine driver of the engine ... since .... he will take almost everything onto the trailer wassat
  • ancient
    ancient 24 October 2015 12: 46 New
    0
    Quote: rkkasa 81
    but if the article is good


    The article is not "good", but MYSTERIOUS soldier and for the "artistic eggs" painted over ... "the greatest" avid gambler "and" globeophile ", his hands would ....." tear off " wassat
    Is the "avid gambler" the one who "rummages through the minuscule without two hostesses"? lol so maybe the author should position himself with the engine driver of the engine ... since .... he will take almost everything onto the trailer wassat
  • figwam
    figwam 26 October 2015 10: 18 New
    0
    Yes, Google maps and draws, it turns out like the author.
  • PN
    PN 24 October 2015 08: 03 New
    +5
    Additional information is not superfluous. This has always been interesting to me. I knew that the circles are so, conditionally. And here the author has stated everything in more detail. And this is even without taking into account the Baltic. Here's another thing to know where to reach the Pacific Fleet with calibers ...
  • rkkasa xnumx
    rkkasa xnumx 24 October 2015 08: 45 New
    +4
    Quote: crazyrom
    The article is certainly important, but it is already 2 of the week (15 days), somehow too late.

    Yes, even for two years.
    You need to evaluate the article not by the degree of its old age, but by whether the information is correct and useful there or not.
  • Altona
    Altona 24 October 2015 12: 28 New
    +1
    Quote: crazyrom
    The article is certainly important, but it is already 2 of the week (15 days), somehow too late.

    -----------------------
    The article is certainly informative, but why was this lesson in astronomy and geometry? If perfect and extrapolated curves almost overlap? And the ranges, too, just got a serrated edge ... This is, firstly, secondly, we still do not know the real operational range, the figure of 2600 km is still approximate ...
  • ancient
    ancient 24 October 2015 12: 36 New
    +2
    Quote: crazyrom
    The article is of course important


    An article of the FAKE level or .... a primary school student ... below in detail .. justified soldier
  • Enot-poloskun
    Enot-poloskun 24 October 2015 07: 50 New
    +7
    Well, will the Caliber fly to Berlin?
    - Fly.
    And fly to Paris?
    - Fly.
    And to London?
    - And to London!
  • War and Peace
    War and Peace 24 October 2015 10: 21 New
    +2


    But there are also ISKANDERS, there, too, the Kolomchans said they want to put a cruise racket-R500, they write that the range will be 500-700 km, but about the calibers they also said-300 km, and in fact, air-based 2600 km ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 24 October 2015 12: 42 New
      0
      In general, 300 kilometers is for the export version of Caliber missiles, while the R 500 missile has a range of 500 kilometers.
  • Nick
    Nick 24 October 2015 12: 22 New
    -3
    Quote: Alex28
    Our sworn “friends” also calculated this, so they started to let go of their own (like we can).

    The funny thing is that against the cruise missiles the missile defense system is powerless. The US missile defense system in Europe, relatively efficiently, can only work against ballistic missiles. It was on this type of missile that it was imprisoned.
    1. atalef
      atalef 24 October 2015 12: 28 New
      +4
      Quote: Nick
      The funny thing is that the missile defense system is powerless against cruise missiles

      For this there is air defense? Or is the KR an indestructible and undetectable wunderwafel?
      1. Nick
        Nick 24 October 2015 16: 22 New
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        Quote: Nick
        The funny thing is that the missile defense system is powerless against cruise missiles

        For this there is air defense? Or is the KR an indestructible and undetectable wunderwafel?

        I am talking about Euro missile defense, and not about Euro missile defense. There is some difference, consider in your comments. Or is it for you that missile defense and air defense are the same? fool hi
        1. atalef
          atalef 24 October 2015 17: 00 New
          0
          Quote: Nick
          I'm talking about Euro missile defense, and not about Euro missile defense

          So tell us about Euro chefs.
          They do not bring down the same KR
          Quote: Nick
          Or is it for you that missile defense and air defense are the same?

          And for you . if the PRO does not shoot down, then there’s nothing to shoot down?
          1. Nick
            Nick 25 October 2015 23: 03 New
            0
            Quote: atalef
            So tell us about Euro chefs.
            They do not bring down the same KR

            Quote: atalef
            And for you . if the PRO does not shoot down, then there’s nothing to shoot down?

            Theoretically, you can bring down the Caliber with the Euro-colonel of the Euro-war, but the probability is negligible. In a word, you are right, it is possible to bring down Caliber, but Europeans have nothing.
            1. mav1971
              mav1971 26 October 2015 00: 41 New
              -3
              Quote: Nick

              Theoretically, you can bring down the Caliber with the Euro-colonel of the Euro-war, but the probability is negligible. In a word, you are right, it is possible to bring down Caliber, but Europeans have nothing.


              Where do you come from?
              I'm just curious.
              First, they will separate missile defense and air defense.
              Then they say that NATO has no air defense.
              What planet are you from? With Nubiru chtoli?

              Have you heard of such an abbreviation as NATINADS at least once?
              This is, among other things, the NATO Integrated Air Defense System, which is being transformed into NIAMD (NATO Integrated Air and Missile Defense).
              Those. unified air defense and missile defense system.
              This is not less than 130 radar stations including those beyond the horizon, connected into a single network - is this not air defense?
              Those. over 40 AWACS aircraft in NATO countries - not air defense?
              Missile systems "Patriot", "Aster", C-300, with a bunch of object air defense systems (all kinds of moles, downturns, bamses, rolands, etc.) - not air defense?
              1. Nick
                Nick 26 October 2015 12: 00 New
                0
                Quote: mav1971
                Have you heard of such an abbreviation as NATINADS at least once?
                This is, among other things, the NATO Integrated Air Defense System, which is being transformed into NIAMD (NATO Integrated Air and Missile Defense).
                Those. unified air defense and missile defense system.
                This is not less than 130 radar stations including those beyond the horizon, connected into a single network - is this not air defense?
                Those. over 40 AWACS aircraft in NATO countries - not air defense?
                Missile systems "Patriot", "Aster", C-300, with a bunch of object air defense systems (all kinds of moles, downturns, bamses, rolands, etc.) - not air defense?

                Where do you come from? try to use your erudition and knowledge of terms as an argument. Stupid.
                As they say - for every sly ass there is a penis screw. The first one. The gauge goes to the target at low altitude with the envelope of the terrain. It is very difficult to detect it with a radar.
                The second one. The caliber goes to the goal bypassing the air defense / missile defense systems, i.e. not flying in a straight line. A cruise missile is not ballistic and can afford it.
                The third. Yes, object air defense is available at all significant military facilities, but the peculiarity of the Caliber is that they switch to supersonic before attacking the object. A low-flying, small-sized, supersonic, maneuvering target is a very difficult target for object-based air defense.
                Fourth. An outfit of several CDs will be allocated to particularly important objects. All this will ensure an almost guaranteed destruction of the designated target.
                Once again, NATO in Europe does not have an air defense / missile defense system capable of repelling a massive Caliber attack.
                Our air defense is no worse than the NATO one, but the experience conducted at the Astrakhan training ground a couple of years ago showed that two of the 11 simulators of the Kyrgyz Republic broke through to the target. Note simulators of the Kyrgyz Republic and not the Caliber itself. hi
                1. mav1971
                  mav1971 26 October 2015 13: 33 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Nick

                  As they say - for every sly ass there is a penis screw. The first one. The gauge goes to the target at low altitude with the envelope of the terrain. It is very difficult to detect it with a radar.


                  For detecting a cruise missile with an envelope around the terrain, AWACS aircraft perfectly help.
                  Terrain-guided missiles and digital maps necessarily need high-contrast and 100% reference points analyzed from any angle.
                  These reference points are easily analyzed by specialists.
                  They can also be perfectly covered.

                  Quote: Nick

                  The second one. The caliber goes to the goal bypassing the air defense / missile defense systems, i.e. not flying in a straight line. A cruise missile is not ballistic and can afford it.
                  The third. Yes, object air defense is available at all significant military facilities, but the peculiarity of the Caliber is that they switch to supersonic before attacking the object. A low-flying, small-sized, supersonic, maneuvering target is a very difficult target for object-based air defense.

                  Learn the materiel. Tactical Caliber does not have a supersonic flight mode.
                  Only anti-ship version.
                  And this is a completely different story.
                  Learn not to mix.


                  Quote: Nick

                  Fourth. An outfit of several CDs will be allocated to particularly important objects. All this will ensure an almost guaranteed destruction of the designated target.
                  Once again, NATO in Europe does not have an air defense / missile defense system capable of repelling a massive Caliber attack.

                  Yes, at least twenty missiles for each object.
                  But here it is not necessary to consider that if we put in the 110 troops of thousands of calibers, we bring the number of carriers to thousands - and that then NATO air defense will remain at today's level.
                  They are not fools.
                  They will also double-triple-triple the size of their air defense and maintain parity between our strike potential and their defensive.
                  According to your own words. on a cunning ass - your hell with a screw.
                  Those fools. who considers himself an abstract horse in a spherical vacuum.
                  The world is interdependent.

                  Quote: Nick

                  Our air defense is no worse than the NATO one, but the experience conducted at the Astrakhan training ground a couple of years ago showed that two of the 11 simulators of the Kyrgyz Republic broke through to the target. Note simulators of the Kyrgyz Republic and not the Caliber itself. hi


                  I do not know the conditions for the exercises.

                  But I know one thing.

                  That a real-time data exchange system and control system between AWACS aircraft (one or two dozen permanently located above the borders of Europe in peacetime) and 130 radar systems significantly increases the level of protection.

                  One division in the field is not a warrior. :(
                  1. Nick
                    Nick 26 October 2015 17: 32 New
                    0
                    Quote: mav1971
                    For detecting a cruise missile with an envelope around the terrain, AWACS aircraft perfectly help.
                    Terrain-guided missiles and digital maps necessarily need high-contrast and 100% reference points analyzed from any angle.
                    These reference points are easily analyzed by specialists.
                    They can also be perfectly covered.

                    It seems to me that there is also an inertial system and GLONASS steers, plus a homing system on the way to the goal
                    Quote: mav1971
                    Learn the materiel. Tactical Caliber does not have a supersonic flight mode.
                    Only anti-ship version.

                    Thanks for the info, I will consider. Only even in this version was the Caliber created with the ability to overcome advanced air defense. In addition, the supersonic stage is not used to increase the mass and power of warheads. The special warhead is much easier and it is possible to use the third supersonic stage with it.
                    Quote: mav1971
                    Yes, at least twenty missiles for each object.
                    But here it is not necessary to consider that if we put in the 110 troops of thousands of calibers, we bring the number of carriers to thousands - and that then NATO air defense will remain at today's level.
                    They are not fools.

                    If they are not fools, then why did they leave the ABM Treaty. Why spend the loot on EuroPRO? After all, everything is easily and asymmetrically leveled
                    Quote: mav1971
                    Those fools. who considers himself an abstract horse in a spherical vacuum.

                    The vacuum has no form.
                    Quote: mav1971
                    I do not know the conditions for the exercises.

                    But I know one thing.

                    That a real-time data exchange system and control system between AWACS aircraft (one or two dozen permanently located above the borders of Europe in peacetime) and 130 radar systems significantly increases the level of protection.

                    Every non-spherical horse knows that it is impossible to create absolute defense, there is always a percentage of probability
  • Armored optimist
    Armored optimist 24 October 2015 06: 04 New
    +2
    The author, and what range do you use? 1500? 2600?
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 24 October 2015 06: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: armored optimist
      The author, and what range do you use? 1500? 2600?

      who are you talking to now? what where is the author? request
      1. i80186
        i80186 24 October 2015 06: 36 New
        0
        And for example, I think that on such a map you can draw circles. And in the article, a piece can be drawn from it. smile
        1. Oper6300
          Oper6300 24 October 2015 07: 08 New
          +2
          Pay attention to where now, say, Scandinavia, Paris with London, and almost all of England, with the exception of Scotland and Ireland, are now.

          But in my opinion, the most pleasant thing is to see Arabia in this “circle of friends”. Payment is coming for the bombings of houses in Moscow, Volgograd, for Beslan and other arts.
    2. ancient
      ancient 24 October 2015 15: 41 New
      0
      Quote: armored optimist
      The author, and what range do you use? 1500? 2600?


      the author is silent ... maybe it dawned that he "sat in a puddle with his pictures" wassat

      The "little circles" that the author "criticizes" are exactly 2, but he, the afftor .. "creations" from 600 km and ... "more" wassat
      1. Manul
        24 October 2015 21: 30 New
        0
        Quote: ancient
        the author is silent ... maybe it dawned that he "sat in a puddle with his pictures"

        The "little circles" that the author "criticizes" are exactly 2, but he, the afftor .. "creations" from 600 km and ... "more"

        repeat This is my repost. I found the article interesting, and published it. It’s good that we have smart people who will explain everything to everyone in a scientific way, right? All the same, this is a section - Opinions, so the administration is not responsible here. You can bullet dung in me. soldier
  • Federal
    Federal 24 October 2015 06: 05 New
    65
    Well, apparently it’s enough to insult and humiliate us and impose our tolerance on us, we have our own worldview for this whole world mess that was brought about by geyropomatrasniki.
  • Strashila
    Strashila 24 October 2015 06: 13 New
    10
    And if you add the radii from the Baltic and Sulfur fleets ... beauty indescribable will.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 24 October 2015 08: 37 New
      +4
      Well, in the Baltic, the Kalibronos frigate is being completed. And in the North, another is being tested.

      Here is another. While the volley even with the building 80 missiles.

      The United States has missiles of similar range and performance characteristics - presented 2500 in a common salvo of a marine component.
      1. Manul
        24 October 2015 10: 18 New
        +2
        Quote: donavi49
        Here is another. So far, even a volley with building 80 missiles.

        In the USA, missiles of a similar range and performance characteristics are represented by 2500 in the general salvo of a marine component.

        And how many US missiles with nuclear warheads are interesting, and will they use them? And how many missiles with a conventional high-explosive warhead can solve the problem of destroying an ICBM mine, for example. And will it?
        I have an idea that most likely the United States will never shoot at military facilities - it is possible to relocate them (well, except for mines, of course, etc.) Their goals, as in Yugoslavia, are probably infrastructure and production (preferably more harmful, to create humanitarian and environmental catastrophes) So it seems to me that comparing the total number of missiles does not make sense, while we bomb military facilities, hospitals, bomb shelters, thermal power plants, nuclear power plants, oil depots, chemical plants, livestock farms, bakeries and so on will burn in our country. The US will always find rockets and weapons. And we, even if we have as many missiles as they have, can we?
        1. opus
          opus 24 October 2015 11: 47 New
          +2
          Quote: Manul
          And how many US missiles with nuclear warheads are interesting, and will they use them?

          RGM / UGM-109A TLAM-N plan 758 pieces, 367 produced. WSC W80 (5-200 ct)


          The BGM-109G GLCM had 322 KR and 95 TEL pencil cases deployed. Also 121 non-deployed missiles and 28 TEL. SBCH W-84, from 10 to 50 kT






          "Griffins" were withdrawn from service with the MGM-31C Pershing II missiles.
          But in my opinion it is in storage, and not destroyed. SBCH for sure (as from the Pershig)
          America lacks weapons-grade plutonium and uranium

          Still, of course, the AGM-86 ALCM from Boeing is 1142 pieces, with SBN W80-1, fusion
          variable energy release (5-150 (200) ct)


      2. opus
        opus 24 October 2015 11: 41 New
        +3
        Quote: donavi49
        TTX - 2500 in the general salvo of the marine component.

        I think more: up to 3600 KR "Tomahawk" only sea-based.

        since 1983, when the first modification of the Kyrgyz Republic Tomahawk was adopted, the US military in combat conditions, about 2 thousand of these cruise missiles were used. + 100-140 training starts
        English in my opinion 64 (20% of ammunition)


        from 2004 to 2013 they delivered 3,000 Tomahawk to the U.S. Navy only Block iv .

        "Thank you" Mikhail Sergeyevich:

        the last 20 years, the Russian fleet has remained virtually unarmed, and after all, many high-ranking officers then knew that there is no non-nuclear version of the RK-55 Granat.

        In the Soviet arsenal RK-55 or X-55 (we are talking about the same product 3M-10) was the only strategic KR therefore, its conventional (non-nuclear) version was not even originally planned at the design stage. The Soviet Air Force, ADD, Navy, and even the Ground Forces were armed with missiles of various types; only more than 20 types of missiles were in service. These are Navy missiles: tactical anti-ship missiles - Amethyst P-70, Malachite P-120, P-15, P-15M, Mosquito; operational-tactical - P-5, P-5D, P-6, P-500 "Basalt", P-700 "Granite"; These are ADD rockets X20, X-22, X-15. All of these missiles had both a nuclear warhead version and a conventional one.
        So they left the Kyrgyz Republic under the agreement: the Tomahawks (tactical) to the Americans, anti-ship Kyrgyzstan (without the TsU satellite constellation)
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 24 October 2015 12: 52 New
          0
          In about 15 years, or maybe even earlier, the United States will have hypersonic aerobalistic missiles and hypersonic gliding warheads, and all subsonic missiles will go by the wayside and bypass.
        2. Orionvit
          Orionvit 26 October 2015 05: 03 New
          0
          X-55 went all the time on combat duty. Engines were made in Zaporozhye in Soviet times (about 3000 pcs.) Now only terms are extended on duty. Although I heard there is an analogue to the engines in Omsk.
      3. serg2108
        serg2108 24 October 2015 13: 45 New
        0
        yes nevermind that America has 2500 of them as soon as they release at least 10 pieces at once - the end of civilization will be known for a long time bully in our direction!
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 24 October 2015 20: 19 New
          0
          There will be no end to civilization, and only two countries of Russia and the United States will end, and even that may be.
    2. veksha50
      veksha50 24 October 2015 11: 37 New
      +1
      Quote: Strashila
      And if you add the radii from the Baltic and Sulfur fleets ...



      Hmm ... There is still an opportunity to revive the Amur Flotilla, which was disbanded and now there is only a crew of border boats on the Amur ...
  • mig31
    mig31 24 October 2015 06: 13 New
    0
    No matter how it happened, the “democracy” of Geyropa and mattress is afraid of Russia, for the Russians own the sword of justice, and Heavenly Kara will not keep itself waiting long, God forbid, what happens ....
  • duschman80-81
    duschman80-81 24 October 2015 06: 23 New
    +2
    Portugal can sleep peacefully ... hi
    1. afdjhbn67
      afdjhbn67 24 October 2015 06: 38 New
      +4
      Quote: duschman80-81
      Portugal can sleep peacefully

      IT is impossible for us with our GDP (for those who are stubborn, the gross domestic product) should have come out in 10 years, so a lighthouse country wassat
      1. GRAY
        GRAY 24 October 2015 09: 20 New
        0
        Quote: afdjhbn67
        IT is impossible for us with our GDP (for those who are stubborn, the gross domestic product) should have come out in 10 years, so a lighthouse country

        Is that really necessary? Russia has never been a strong economy; liberalists love to measure the country's power in GDP. It’s just the fact that these same, more developed countries were constantly receiving stars from Russia (moreover, both together and separately) somehow breaking this stereotype.
      2. skifd
        skifd 24 October 2015 10: 14 New
        +1
        Quote: afdjhbn67
        IT is impossible for us with our GDP (for those who are stubborn, the gross domestic product) should have come out in 10 years, so a lighthouse country



        Already sickened with this Portugal am ! Only the lazy did not "meditate" ...
        Just compare the numbers and THINK !!! And do not hell speculate on the so-called "statistics":

        Portugal:

        $209 669 415 075
        GDP (Gross Domestic Product) this year
        (at purchasing power parity)
        $ 19 780
        This year's GDP per capita (annual $ 24 391)
        $ 356 056 171
        GDP for today
        $ 34
        GDP for the current day per capita
        $ 319 041 528 379
        Public debt counter
        $30 098
        Government debt per capita
        $ 6 773 784 479
        Public debt this year
        $ 0.93999
        Government debt today



        Russia :

        $ 2 297 286 584 043
        GDP (Gross Domestic Product) this year
        (at purchasing power parity)
        $ 15 697
        This year's GDP per capita (annual $ 19 334)
        $ 3 912 644 317
        GDP for today
        $ 27
        GDP for the current day per capita
        $ 420 457 756 831
        Public debt counter
        $2 873
        Government debt per capita
        $ 29 161 768 951
        Public debt this year
        $ 0.8628
        Government debt today

        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. skifd
          skifd 24 October 2015 10: 27 New
          +3
          Find me Portugal here.

          Top-30 countries in terms of GDP - 2013, billion dollars

        3. question
          question 24 October 2015 10: 34 New
          +2
          In this comparison, I am only interested in one figure-GDP per capita! And it shows that we still have room to grow!
          1. skifd
            skifd 24 October 2015 10: 52 New
            0
            Quote: question
            In this comparison, I am only interested in one figure-GDP per capita! And it shows that we still have room to grow!


            Well, who's arguing .. You just have to look at the big picture, and if you evaluate the economy of the COUNTRY, you can’t get by with a “couple of lines,” pulling out of the context is not ice-cold. So you can get to Guadeloupe.

            Well, I, too, certainly for the growth of "GDP per capita." But! Without prevailing over this indicator of "state debt" for the same "per capita". Something like this .
            1. afdjhbn67
              afdjhbn67 24 October 2015 15: 55 New
              0
              Quote: skifd
              Well, I, too, certainly for the growth of "GDP per capita." But! Without

              my comment is generally the answer ..

              I, too, for this, but I want us to live in Siberia at least as well as in the outskirts of Europe - Portugal
              something like this..
          2. Azitral
            Azitral 24 October 2015 11: 21 New
            +1
            Nobody says that everything is fine with us. No one says we have nowhere to grow. They say that when Portugal is represented by our lighthouse in terms of GDP, in which it is 11 times smaller, they lie to us. This means that they are not shy about lying in all other cases. And they are too lazy to get into the Internet and look at statistical reports, it can be Anglo-Saxon, if we consider our pro-Putin propaganda. They lie, if only to once again sow skepticism, risking that even after the first time they stop believing and start laughing. Remember Ukrainian. a journalist whom Putin asked if he had read the documents on European integration? And it became clear from the embarrassed smile of the hack man and the talker that, of course, he didn’t read it and says "in general." This same Salt of the Earth, confusing Slovakia with Slovenia, says everything “in full swing” - but she is firmly convinced that she knows everything better than anyone, it is not clear only where it came from. Not otherwise than by birthright and by virtue of faith in everything that they say in the Air Force. Here he is - lied.
  • efimich41
    efimich41 24 October 2015 06: 38 New
    +2
    Learning is light, and unlearned is darkness. People! Learn geography and other sciences not for show in a magazine, but for yourself. Useful in life.
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 24 October 2015 06: 42 New
    +1
    You need to draw from Baltiysk, that’s where the bloopers will be ...))
    By the way, what about the Nicaraguan Canal?
    I have a feeling that they quietly closed the topic.
    1. Chukcha
      Chukcha 24 October 2015 13: 06 New
      0
      The start of construction was postponed to March 2016 goals.
      The reason is indicated that technological safety for the environment needs to be worked out.
  • sibmilitary
    sibmilitary 24 October 2015 06: 43 New
    +2
    And why are polygons from the Baltic, Northern Fleet and the Mediterranean squadron not shown? There are no calibers or is it too scary for the Europeans to succeed?
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 24 October 2015 08: 38 New
      +2
      In the Baltic Sea for several years there will be no caliber carriers. They only build them (frigates and submarines).

      In the North, the Calibronos are only passing tests (Gorshkov and the Black Sea boats) for there is nowhere in the Baltic. There, then X-35 shoot, half of the Baltic must be closed.
    2. opus
      opus 24 October 2015 19: 45 New
      0
      Quote: sibmilitary
      And why are polygons from the Baltic, Northern Fleet and the Mediterranean squadron not shown?

      there are simply NO THESE "calibers", specifically the ZM-14.
      We have to wait 10 years.
      While dozens of "on balance"
      1. dvina71
        dvina71 24 October 2015 20: 31 New
        +1
        Quote: opus
        While dozens of "on balance"


        Are such statements always confusing me? Who are you actually? And where did you get the firewood from?
        This information is secret. We don’t even really know the X-100 went into the series or not .. no one officially announced .. one can only indirectly assume .. The first 855pr is accepted into the fleet, the X-100 is its full-time weaponry ... as be hinted that they are in the series let's go ..
        And here you are so numbering so boldly swing .. Be careful .. make some idler.
        1. opus
          opus 24 October 2015 23: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: dvina71
          And where did you get the firewood from?

          themselves answered
          Quote: dvina71
          can only indirectly be assumed
          .
          I assumed "indirectly"
          This is my opinion, based on the estimates of HCN.
          And KhKN, I’ll figure it out to the “nose”:
          ЗК10 (С-10) Grenade / SS-N-21 SAMPSON-а ЗМ-14 (and ЗМ-54) actually her clone (on modern eb)


          Adopted December 31, 1983 (in April 1984 according to other data and in 1985 according to the Nenoks training ground). By the end of 1988, according to Western data, about XNUMX submarines of the USSR Navy 100 3M10 Grenade missiles.

          100 !!! STO JOK KR for 5 years. and this is with the USSR, with its power (industrial), with the Central Committee of the CPSU and virtually unlimited budget (for defense)


          Quote: dvina71
          Be careful ... you will make some idlers.

          don't let it go.
          cool.
          And it will be (as always):


          =======================
          and in 1915 the shells were already over
          1. opus
            opus 24 October 2015 23: 37 New
            +1
            Quote: opus
            ZK10 (S-10) Granat / SS-N-21 SAMPSON- and ZM-14 (and ZM-54) are actually its clone (on modern e-mail)






            or RK-55 / 3K12 Relief - SSC-X-4 SLINGSHOT (ground version "Garnet")
            - October 1988, 10 - according to the INF Treaty, the last missile of 6 SPU was destroyed and 80 cruise missilessubject to destruction. In the official data published in the media, 84 missiles are mentioned, according to eyewitnesses - 80.

            80 !!!! at the USSR.

            8x10 = several tens


            1. mosquit
              mosquit 26 October 2015 12: 50 New
              0
              Marching in the air dual-circuit solid fuel engine

              The source is doubtful - a new type of engine however ... bully
          2. dvina71
            dvina71 25 October 2015 00: 01 New
            0
            Quote: opus
            I assumed "indirectly"

            That is not indirectly, but quite authoritatively .. Here I am indirectly ..
            And why such a historical opus? Well, there were "Grenades" .. Well, the Western media believe that there were 100 of them .. What does this have to do with modernity?
            Since then, the structure of the fleet has changed, and the emphasis has shifted ..
            So that I would not use such quantitative arguments.

            I finally thought that in Syria 3m-14 marks, but a couple of pieces. For testing ... I’m sitting in a cafe .. I’m having dinner .. I waved 500 km on a truck .. and then on TV .. so-and-so from the Caspian .. Well, I think .. they decided not to fuck with submarines, but with RTOs .. and here 24 pieces in one salvo .. This is not frail such a hello to Europe .. Guess what the Russians are carrying there .. torpedoes, anti-ship missiles or missiles. And where they fucking from ..
  • kuz363
    kuz363 24 October 2015 07: 16 New
    +1
    Very well. It’s good to have the same ships in the Baltic, then Europeans will not sleep well at night
    1. asar
      asar 24 October 2015 08: 55 New
      0
      then the Europeans will not sleep well at night

      Well, there’s a cure for insomnia - jogging all night, wring out, well, if 100, brew mint (such grass), "get drunk" and wake up from a deep hangover, and not from neurosis, such as "Russians are coming!" Geyropetsy! There are many ways to cure neurosis and insomnia!
      But the main remedy, I will tell you a secret - you do not need fuck Russia, you should sleep peacefully!
  • starriuy
    starriuy 24 October 2015 07: 19 New
    +2
    A good article is an educational program ... simple and intelligible .. Honestly, I didn’t think about these distortions ... Plus the article is unambiguous ..
  • Foresterer
    Foresterer 24 October 2015 07: 50 New
    +1
    Probably also not completely true, in the waters of the seas not all of our waters, this is me, for order. Well, as for the “Caliber”, which is true, it is true that Russia planted a sickly splinter in some soft spot. As they say, I’ll sleep, and you’ll hurt.
  • slizhov
    slizhov 24 October 2015 07: 54 New
    +1
    And someone wondered- And if the missile range is not 1.5 thousand km, but much more ???
    Then OTHER CIRCLES HAVE TO DRAW ... :)
    And where now to put them Aircraft carriers that terrified all countries ???
    In the scrap or remake in fishing?
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 24 October 2015 08: 56 New
      +6
      Em?

      It's simple - the missile is largely edictive to the air-based dad who flies 2000km. There are also certain limitations, roughly a rocket in mass-size similar to the Ax.

      The ax drags - its gifts for a range of 900 miles in the latest versions. This is a guideline on the possible range, without a sharp killing of warheads. For the Ax was licked by the engine and fuel efficiency as much as possible from all existing missiles.

      Carriers can fly safely. The uniqueness of these missiles is that For the first time, the surface / underwater fleet of the USSR / RF received a real means of hitting coastal targets to great depths. Prior to this, there was nothing like this, only bypass modes of the anti-ship missiles ensuring the defeat of a large port, factory or air base of the Nyukom and Grenades with Shuk-B, also Nyuki.

      A long-range missile against ships is not effective, and against any moving target. For it is impossible to predict, and missiles at a range of 2 hours go, that is, a group of ships will banally leave the capture sector of the GOS missile. The Americans faced this in the 80, when it was decided to write off the TSAMs and remake them in TLAM - that is, for ground targets.

      Moreover, the missile is extremely vulnerable to resistance - that is, it is a typical subtle, low-flying, subsonic target. By which everyone will work. The chip on the ground of such missiles is to go over the terrain and not be trite to be seen even by a target covered by air defense (because on the terrain + the stealth and altitude itself greatly complicate even just detection, not to mention capture and work). At sea, all this will not happen, and the fleet from 60's is sharpened precisely for low-flying.

      Especially for the fleet there are other goodies - dear Onyx or the same two-stage rocket from a caliber, first flies like an ordinary X-35 / Harpoon, then captures the target, shoots off the excess and breaks the near radius on the 3 M.
  • tlauicol
    tlauicol 24 October 2015 08: 05 New
    +2
    It turns out the URO cruiser, standing somewhere near Sri Lanka or in the Canaries, can a hundred Tomahawks in Moscow and St. Petersburg release? How can you have fun here?
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 24 October 2015 10: 55 New
      +6
      Quote: Tlauicol
      How can you have fun here?

      But especially killing is not necessary.
      Let me remind you of the events of the recent past, when the United States facilitated the test of Israeli missile defense missiles in the sea of ​​the Slovak Republic. The launch of the rocket was detected after a few seconds. And although they are trying to hide behind the Armovir radar SPRN, but something tells you that this is the work of the Mordovian radar ZGO 29B6 "Container". No wonder its creator said in an interview that operators even see light-engine aircraft taking off from airfields. So, from 3000 km she will lead the targets, enveloping the terrain, without comment. Well, then - the business of the world's best air defense system!
      Let me remind you of the American-Israeli embarrassment in the CP Sea, which none of the Pentagon and Tsahal leaders knew about! (poor thing!)
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 24 October 2015 18: 05 New
        +1
        Yes, everything is clear - the author simply measured the globe with a ruler!

        As for the target missile, do not think that the surface / surface / underwater launch of the Kyrgyz Republic will be noticeable as: (follow the link, it is not inserted) http://waronline.org/fora/index.php?attachments/2013-09- 04_132652-jpg.7264 /
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 24 October 2015 18: 14 New
          +1
          here is another image of the launch of an aeroballistic target rocket.

          The "Container" entered into trial operation in December 2013, and the Jews in September
      2. opus
        opus 24 October 2015 20: 01 New
        +2
        Quote: BoA KAA
        No wonder its creator said in an interview that operators even see light-engine aircraft taking off from airfields.

        Alexander, this is not possible.
        1. State tests of the radar station in Kovylkino (Mordovia) are scheduled to begin in 2015.
        The range of detection of air targets is more than 3000 km (at altitudes of 10 km (assuming a range of 3000 km)) and higher (up to 100 km)
        Sector of review - 180 degrees (they say in 2014 they made 240)
        It is focused on Poland and Germany, but 180gr probably pose Turkey. HZ

        two-coordinate Over-the-horizon radar detection (ZGO) system warnings about aerospace attack
        2. Radar VZG "Voronezh DM"

        need a "good" torch from the launch of ICBMs
        Israeli turd "Khets-2" is not designed to intercept ICBMs, it was launched imitating on the radar reflection, but not on the torch, TR.
    2. opus
      opus 24 October 2015 19: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: Tlauicol
      It turns out the URO cruiser, standing somewhere near Sri Lanka or in the Canary Islands m

      Why should they be so tense?
      1. The Mediterranean Sea, almost everything under NATO
      2.North Atlantic (Line) GIS: Norway, Scotland, Britain, France, Denmark, Germany, Belgium, Holland.
      3.From the east, Japan and South Korea
      4.From the south: Persian Gulf
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 24 October 2015 08: 05 New
    +2
    Normally it turns out. The main thing (for me) is Arabia at gunpoint. We got these great sowers of Wahhabism. Personally, I am not inclined to forget the bombings in Moscow and the set fire to Chechnya.
    1. Azitral
      Azitral 24 October 2015 11: 31 New
      +2
      Respected. This is one of my concerns. The fact is that, based on nat. interests of the Russian Federation, the best option for us would be for the KSA and Qatar to somehow join the chaos zone, only with fires at the terminals and mines. It is obvious. So is not the Syrian operation a part of the roadmap for achieving precisely this goal? And so - yes, you are right, corrupted types without the slightest merits, deeply respected, because there is nothing.
  • mmk
    mmk 24 October 2015 08: 07 New
    +1
    What about the Baltic Fleet?
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 24 October 2015 09: 07 New
      +1
      Not there. They are only being built and go to fleets (Black Sea Fleet / Northern Fleet).

      The first bore caliber carrier on the BF will appear year to 19-20. The following is only laid at Yantar. If the deadlines stand like Green Dol, then 19-20, if not, then 2020 +.
  • Oman 47
    Oman 47 24 October 2015 08: 21 New
    +2
    The club was a little larger than expected by the West. Or - the "hand of Moscow" is more authentic ... request

    This is all, of course, wonderful; slightly sobered "partners", BUT ...
    We would have to restore order in our own economy ...
    IPhone - send to manage the production of Yotafonov; just his level.
  • Steppe
    Steppe 24 October 2015 08: 31 New
    +1
    Having cool and long-range missiles is good. But it’s much better not to use them. I believe that it would be nice to eliminate all enemies by hitting the dollar. Without Russian blood, cheap and cheerful, so to speak. DOLLAR DOLLAR !!!!!!
  • samuraiway
    samuraiway 24 October 2015 08: 47 New
    0
    Quote: kuz363
    Very well. It’s good to have the same ships in the Baltic, then Europeans will not sleep well at night

    You still forgot TF, and for the general panic of the west, you had to show the lake and the rivers of Russia)))
    1. Manul
      24 October 2015 10: 28 New
      +1
      Quote: samuraiway
      and for the general panic of the west, it was necessary to show the lake and the rivers of Russia)))

      And if you put a large tank with water on a powerful chassis and load the RTOs there ... Will this be considered an artificial reservoir?
  • Domino45
    Domino45 24 October 2015 09: 08 New
    0
    need to show the lake and the rivers of Russia))) [/ quote]
    About neutral waters and remember the submarine.
  • evgenymap
    evgenymap 24 October 2015 09: 15 New
    +2
    The author, at the beginning of his article, spoke very primitively about world maps, giving an example of a cylindrical projection of Mercator, where distortions from zero at the equator reach infinity at the poles. The pole point in such a projection is a line. This is the main projection for nautical charts. And for world maps, there are other projections where Greenland is smaller than Africa and Africa is larger than Russia.
    Arc on a flat map - read the concepts of Loxodrome and Orthodrome, which are used in ship and aircraft.
  • PValery53
    PValery53 24 October 2015 09: 17 New
    0
    "Enough to live the Fa,
    By this Adam and Eve!
    “Keyboard” of the computer “drive”
    Left - right - left! "(Sorry, V.V.M.!)
  • kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 24 October 2015 09: 21 New
    0
    All of course is good and even pleasant that the capabilities of our defensive system are increasing every day, but to calm down on what has been achieved is “more expensive for yourself”! There was a disapproving statement addressed to the Admins that the article had already been two weeks old, and published only now, completely disagree with these reproaches! Have you thought gentlemen criticizing that the Admins sometimes need to coordinate the articles with the "competent authorities" or do you think that they are so "reckless" that they take and publish everything at once? Someone can run into a big nuisance that qualifies the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation and even sometimes as a "betrayal of the motherland"! And I want to add my “five kopecks” to all of the colleagues expressed in the comments above, and it’s also nice to publish a map of the railways of Russia, because the decision to revive the BZHRK has already been made, and only God and the Supreme Commander will arm them! Considering all of the above and let our “sworn not quite friends” draw circles and even “triangles” on their maps - retaliation is inevitable! (by the way, the same containers are transported by rail on a daily and hourly basis)!
  • Old26
    Old26 24 October 2015 09: 52 New
    +2
    Quote: Alex_Rarog
    Yeah, I also thought about them, how would you imagine a container ship with a URO, the oceans already a malicious smile stretches itself ....

    You know, I also have a malicious smile. True from another. I have repeatedly written in topics about CALIBERS that, having created such a system, we opened the "Pandora's Box". No one ever wondered how many TENS the number of container ships abroad was greater than in Russia? No one ever wondered how many HUNDRED times we say so “container traffic” in the west more than ours? No, but take an interest, you will be unpleasantly amazed.

    For some reason, we think that we are so smart, so cunning, that we put such systems on wheels (cars or railways), on civilian ships, and that’s all, khan to all adversaries !!!

    They did not ask the question, why so far none of the countries have wanted to buy such weapons, despite the apparent simplicity of such a complex ??
    I am not talking about the technical side of the problem. As well as legal. And the article is quite interesting. True, I would write that on these schemes REAL, THEORETICAL REACH AREA these rockets

    Quote: sibmilitary
    And why are polygons from the Baltic, Northern Fleet and the Mediterranean squadron not shown? There are no calibers or is it too scary for the Europeans to succeed?

    If we draw only we - the West will be scared, if they draw "polygons" - we will be scared.

    My first leader taught me at one time: "Want to know what your interlocutor will do (vis-a-vis, enemy, enemy) put yourself in his place."

    Very sensible thought. And then all these delights - delights as from a game of giveaways. When the opponent either does not know how to play, or you play for him, but you always win. So it is here. “We play” exclusively for ourselves, turning off the enemy as a fact, leaving only his territory.
    Maybe you shouldn’t be enthusiastic about the cause and engage in hat-making and look at the world exclusively through pink glasses? And then, underestimation of the enemy usually ends with a lot of blood and a front near Moscow ...

    Quote: Domino45
    it was necessary to show lakes and rivers of Russia

    Yeah, they forgot the river in my hometown. The depth in many places (not everywhere) is sufficient for the Buyans, only the width let us down ... Well, nothing, we will call the Ukrainian brothers and they will quickly dig it up to the desired width. They have experience in digging the seas ...

    Quote: Oman 47
    This is all, of course, wonderful; slightly sobered "partners"

    Do you judge this by the screams of their media? Believe me, they know much more about our weapons than we do. And about their capabilities. But the one who knows does not scream in the media, but analyzes and develops countermeasures ...
  • Old26
    Old26 24 October 2015 09: 55 New
    +1
    Quote: slizhov
    And now where to put them Aircraft carriers that terrified all countries ??? For scrap or remake in fishing?

    And nowhere. As they were, they will remain so. All of these 1000-kilometer missiles are just the same for them that do not exist. This is our degree of enthusiasm rolls over, so much so that people completely turn off the brain and do not understand what we are talking about THREE different rockets. About two with ranges 350-500 km - really ANTI-PORTABLE and one for shooting STATIONARY OBJECTIVES.

    Let me remind you, for those who have forgotten, STATIONARY - these are those that do not move. HOUSEfor example, a stationary target, BARN - also. And here car or bus - this is alas, mobile goals.
    And we take the range of one, connect it with "functional" another, and rejoicing with delight that there is now no American fleet, we will tear it er0, we dare it from the oceans ...

    Quote: donavi49
    Carriers can fly safely. The uniqueness of these missiles is that For the first time, the surface / underwater fleet of the USSR / RF received a real means of hitting coastal targets to great depths.

    good

    Quote: Tlauicol
    It turns out the URO cruiser, standing somewhere near Sri Lanka or in the Canaries, can a hundred Tomahawks in Moscow and St. Petersburg release? How can you have fun here?

    Or from the Baltic across the European part of Russia, or from the Mediterranean ... For some reason they don’t think about it ....
  • Denis DV
    Denis DV 24 October 2015 10: 29 New
    0
    There is no place in the northern hemisphere where we could not flop a rocket hi
  • killganoff
    killganoff 24 October 2015 10: 52 New
    0
    This is all wonderful, but MODERN domestic medium-range missiles (1000-5000 km) subsonic and countries with a launch detection system, as well as air defense systems are able to intercept on the march, even taking into account the low trajectory with envelope relief. This weapon is really effective only against banana republics and rebel groups such as ISIS.
    1. Ramzaj99
      Ramzaj99 24 October 2015 11: 27 New
      0
      Quote: killganoff
      This is all wonderful, but MODERN domestic medium-range missiles (1000-5000 km) and subsonic countries with a launch detection system, as well as air defense systems are capable of intercepting on the march

      Firstly, what does "domestic" mean ?????
      Or does the tomahawk have a different flight speed ??? Or are you out of habit that everything foreign is a priori invulnerable ?? !!))
      And about the second part of your text.
      You’ll swallow dust))) First of all, it’s very difficult to shoot down a rocket at an altitude of 50 meters. Even if you know where it will fly. (this is what happens during the exercises). Secondly, the flight route is laid in the rocket, and believe me, it will pass outside areas where it can even be hypothetically intercepted. In other words, if the distance allows it, it can fly from the completely opposite side, where are you waiting for it. There is no country in the world with 100% air defense coverage. And even if you spotted the start, it still needs something to bring down.
      1. killganoff
        killganoff 24 October 2015 11: 38 New
        0
        I say that with the available number of Caliber launchers, we will not be able to provide the required number of missiles in a salvo for guaranteed destruction of targets. Against ISIS - 20 missiles will be enough, but against a serious enemy of sufficient density it will not be possible to provide.
      2. mav1971
        mav1971 26 October 2015 01: 08 New
        -1
        Quote: Ramzaj99
        Quote: killganoff
        This is all wonderful, but MODERN domestic medium-range missiles (1000-5000 km) and subsonic countries with a launch detection system, as well as air defense systems are capable of intercepting on the march

        Firstly, what does "domestic" mean ?????
        Or does the tomahawk have a different flight speed ??? Or are you out of habit that everything foreign is a priori invulnerable ?? !!))
        And about the second part of your text.
        You’ll swallow dust))) First of all, it’s very difficult to shoot down a rocket at an altitude of 50 meters. Even if you know where it will fly. (this is what happens during the exercises). Secondly, the flight route is laid in the rocket, and believe me, it will pass outside areas where it can even be hypothetically intercepted. In other words, if the distance allows it, it can fly from the completely opposite side, where are you waiting for it. There is no country in the world with 100% air defense coverage. And even if you spotted the start, it still needs something to bring down.


        As far as I heard, almost all systems using elevation maps need "reference points". Those. 100% analyzed object (set of objects) from any angle.
        And such objects are vital when there is no satellite navigation.
        They are easily determined by specialists.
        For example, there is an important object, within a radius of 50-100-200 km to conduct a survey of the map and identify potential benchmarks is not difficult.
        Accordingly, the "cover" of such benchmarks is feasible.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. ancient
      ancient 24 October 2015 15: 52 New
      +2
      Quote: killganoff
      This weapon is really effective only against banana republics and rebel groups such as ISIS.


      This is you in vain sadIt all depends on the density of the flow of missiles and the number of missiles in a salvo. If you think that the route and profile of the rocket is “stuck” for nothing ... two points on the map and a “stick” between them .. then you’re very mistaken soldier
  • NIKNN
    NIKNN 24 October 2015 10: 55 New
    +3
    Quote: PN
    Additional information is not superfluous. This has always been interesting to me. I knew that the circles are so, conditionally. And here the author has stated everything in more detail. And this is even without taking into account the Baltic. Here's another thing to know where to reach the Pacific Fleet with calibers ...


    In Yandex and Google maps, the rulers measure the real distance. Take any point and measure.
    The author shared a topic in which he is competent and only (so that there is nothing to criticize him for), respect.
    We have fewer calibers and clubs than tamogavks. There would be even fewer carriers if it were not for container execution. Only in container execution, the range is slightly less (too lazy to google but in the area of ​​500 km.)
  • figvam3
    figvam3 24 October 2015 11: 07 New
    0
    This is all wonderful, but MODERN domestic medium-range missiles (1000-5000 km), subsonic and countries with a launch detection system, as well as air defense systems are able to intercept on the march, even taking into account the low trajectory with envelope relief. This weapon is really effective only against banana republics and rebel groups such as ISIS. your scribble !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ABOUT THE GREAT THINKER VATNIK KOLORADSKY TELL US ABOUT "PROGRESSIVE ROCKETS OF THE WEST" AND TELL US THE HISTORY OF "INTERCEPT" OF SAM "Patriot" PAC-3 was tested in 1997. [15] Adopted in 2001. [11] The probability of hitting an airplane is 0,8-0,9. Tactical missiles 0,6-0,8. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One missile in the absence of interference. The maximum target speed is 1600 m / s [16]. The height of the defeat of ballistic targets to 15. km [11] It was also reported that the height of the defeat of ballistic targets to 20 km. Lack of missile defense mode

    He needs a special satellite in orbit. This satellite must inform [17] in advance to the PATRIOT location station the coordinates of the rocket and its flight path [18]. It takes as much as 90 seconds. (almost 10 times longer than the S-400).
    1. killganoff
      killganoff 24 October 2015 11: 21 New
      +1
      Oh dear Figv3, Potential friends in a more privileged position.
      Flight time can be 2 or more hours - they will be able to intercept.
      And now about the capabilities of "friends" the main carriers of the Tamagavkas:
      1. Kr URO "Tikanderoga" (22 units in the ranks) is capable of carrying up to 122 KR "Tamagavk";
      2. Em "Arliberk" (62 units) over 50 KR;
      3. SS "Ohio" (4 units) 154 KR.
      Of course, this is physically impossible, but in the general salvo there may be more than 6500 Tomahawk missiles
      North American Yurt III, what do you say?
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 24 October 2015 13: 00 New
        0
        In the USA, all submarines are armed with Tamagavks.
  • mamont5
    mamont5 24 October 2015 11: 22 New
    -1
    Quote: Alex28
    Our sworn “friends” calculated it the same way, and so they started letting them go (like we could). Europe sat down from surprise, well, some people did it in pants. Nothing, we can be more accommodating.

    And what is the use of their "mighty"? No missile defense will protect from the Kyrgyz Republic.
  • veksha50
    veksha50 24 October 2015 11: 29 New
    0
    "And so from the Black Sea" ...

    Most pleased with the fact that Naglia is within reach ...
    1. ancient
      ancient 24 October 2015 12: 51 New
      +1
      Quote: veksha50
      Most pleased with the fact that Naglia is within reach ...


      What do you mean, that is, what means of destruction? wink
      1. veksha50
        veksha50 24 October 2015 15: 37 New
        +1
        Quote: ancient
        What do you mean, that is, what means of destruction?



        The fact that the author of the article in the second version drew ... I see that you already uncovered it, and I wrote when your comments were not yet ...

        In the first version, Naglia did not enter the area of ​​defeat, but in the second version - she entered ... This is what I liked ...

        But what is the reality in the situation ... But who knows ??? It is possible that the "Caspian salvo" was not carried out on a full arm-shoulder-lever-range destruction ...
        1. ancient
          ancient 24 October 2015 20: 49 New
          +1
          Quote: veksha50
          It is possible that the "Caspian salvo" was not carried out on a full arm-shoulder-lever-range destruction ...


          Here I agree with you, +! As the dad of "Caliber" "Grenade" flew .. far for 3, and then there’s a new "motor" bully
        2. The comment was deleted.
  • Tra-ta-ta
    Tra-ta-ta 24 October 2015 12: 44 New
    0
    For those who want to fight on the couch:
  • Straight
    Straight 24 October 2015 13: 04 New
    0
    This is of course a military secret, but they even wrote that Caliber works for 5000 km, and if you reveal real military secret, it will be terrible for the USA ... right from the Caspian and ...
    1. mav1971
      mav1971 26 October 2015 01: 12 New
      -1
      Quote: Direct
      This is of course a military secret, but they even wrote that Caliber works for 5000 km, and if you reveal real military secret, it will be terrible for the USA ... right from the Caspian and ...

      It will not work.
      Do not come up with a perpetual motion machine.
      Do not come up with endless fuel.
  • MolGro
    MolGro 24 October 2015 13: 07 New
    0
    Project 22160 patrol ships being built at the Gorky Zelenodolsk Shipyard will be equipped with Caliber missile systems. A total of 10 ships in a series!

    This was reported to reporters by the first deputy general director of the plant Alexander Karpov.

    Caliber armed
    Submarines project 636 "Varshavyanka"
    Project 21631 small missile ship of the Buyan-m type
    now also ships of project 22160
    I think the entire small and medium fleet of ships will be equipped with this or a similar complex (everyone forgot about the Onix P-800 export name - “Yakhont”. Its range is the same 450-500 km for sea targets)
  • Stas57
    Stas57 24 October 2015 13: 17 New
    +3
    The fact is that the usual large-scale (world) flat maps, which we see on the screens and which hang on the walls, have a strong distortion. The earth, as you know, has the shape of a ball (well, almost a ball - slightly flattened at the poles), and the map, as a rule, is a rectangle. The poles on it have the same length as the equator, although in reality the poles are points. Thus, this image of the surface of the Earth is strongly stretched to the poles and compressed in the equatorial zone:


    called the world map - Peters projection (the most familiar for us is called the Mercator projection)
    it’s the same not accurate - flattened at the poles, and Russia is not such a sausage

    Peters


    Mercator


    and there’s a Tobler Hyperelliptic projection



    Projection Kavraiskogo



    and others, so look guys globe)))
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 13: 24 New
      +2
      Quote: Stas57
      so look guys globe)))

      But you can’t put a glass of vodka on the globe - everything strives to fall .... laughing
      Hi Stas!
      hi
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 24 October 2015 13: 48 New
        +1
        hello, and especially to the pitching?)
      2. atalef
        atalef 24 October 2015 14: 28 New
        +5
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        Quote: Stas57
        so look guys globe)))

        But you can’t put a glass of vodka on the globe - everything strives to fall .... laughing
        Hi Stas!
        hi

        Because this is a bourgeois view of the world, it’s more correct
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 19: 49 New
          +3
          Quote: atalef
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          Quote: Stas57
          so look guys globe)))
          But you can’t put a glass of vodka on the globe - everything strives to fall ....
          Hi Stas!

          Because this is a bourgeois view of the world, it’s more correct

          The main thing is not to drink vodka for elephants and turtles .... laughing
  • Lionnvrsk
    Lionnvrsk 24 October 2015 17: 52 New
    0
    And why is the center of the circles only in the Caspian and Black Seas? And if you put the center near Kaliningrad?
  • Captain45
    Captain45 24 October 2015 18: 59 New
    +1
    Gentlemen, don’t worry about container ships. We have something to give them a bird market there. For example: “At the end of December, the Director General of Rosatom State Corporation Sergey Kiriyenko signed an order to restore the atomic lighter carrier container ship "Sevmorput." A unique vessel will again begin to work in February 2016 of the year. "http://politikus.ru/v-rossii/10208-podpisan-prikaz-o-vosstanovlenii-a
    tomnogo-lihterovoza-konteynerovoza-sevmorput.html
  • Captain45
    Captain45 24 October 2015 19: 02 New
    +1
    And what a sauna bath and a seawater pool on it. He went along the Northern Sea Route and is now putting it into operation there again, delivering cargo to new bases in the Arctic, and at the same time it’s possible to rush around Alaska lol
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 24 October 2015 19: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: Captain45
      And what a sauna bath and a seawater pool on it. He went along the Northern Sea Route and is now putting it into operation there again, delivering cargo to new bases in the Arctic, and at the same time it’s possible to rush around Alaska

      You hit "right in the hole" ... lol
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 24 October 2015 20: 28 New
    0
    And what if you go bogging from the Baltic? what And we have enough other seas. We agree to ride bicycles (who doesn’t agree there ?!), but what would these winged be on all Fleets of our country! winked For not figs !!!
  • Skifotavr
    Skifotavr 24 October 2015 21: 16 New
    0
    The article is certainly interesting and useful, but do not forget that the Black and Caspian Seas are not the inland seas of Russia - which means that the Russian sea carriers of these cruise missiles are not so free to launch them directly from their entire water area.
  • Old26
    Old26 24 October 2015 21: 26 New
    0
    Quote: veksha50
    dual-purpose "chameleon ships" ...

    There were, but it’s most often bulk carriers of the Pioneer type. But by no means fighting.

    Quote: Direct
    This is of course a military secret, but they even wrote that Caliber works for 5000 km, and if you reveal real military secret, it will be terrible for the USA ... right from the Caspian and ...

    You're wrong. It has a range, like a global rocket, that is 40 thousand kilometers ... But do not tell anyone, because
    1. Firstly, this is a terrible military secret
    2. Secondly - tell the experts - they will laugh

    Quote: atalef
    no, well, to be honest, there are lines that you can’t cross, because someone else can equip them the same way. Then catch them in the seas. Well, for example, Georgia.

    Right No one takes into account that there will be several hundred such container ships near our shores. This is not considered a priori. And what, all of them drown? Therefore, no one bought a single such complex, for:
    1. They perfectly understood that having made one shot from such a “civilian vessel” they would put an end to:
    • to all of its fleet. The enemy will sink all ships that consider that they can carry strike weapons
    • in its civilian traffic. Now in container terminals, container trains, cars with containers will become priority targets for the enemy. Therefore, they do not take it.

    2. Those who bought such a complex are well aware that there will be military radars there, which experts will distinguish from civilian ones. True, those who write about such complexes forget it.

    3. Well, as Alexander says correctly, if such a vessel does not carry the flag of the Navy (auxiliary fleet of the Navy), it will already be a pirate ship. And there will be - all secrecy - down the drain ...

    Quote: Captain45
    Gentlemen, don’t worry about container ships. We have something to give them a bird market there. For example: “At the end of December, the Director General of Rosatom State Corporation Sergey Kiriyenko signed an order to restore the nuclear lighter carrier. container ship “Sevmorput.” A unique vessel will again begin to work in February 2016

    Oh, and about the "Northern Sea Route" remembered. The ship - like an eyesore, one thing, moreover, when it goes into operation - is unknown. The date is a planned one ... Listen, they’re ready to put Caliber on everyone. It will be interesting to read through the half-year-year comments of the same comrades about Zircon. They will also offer to put on each barge

    Quote: MolGro
    Project 22160 patrol ships,

    Yeah, instead of building ships of the main classes, we will equip patrol corvettes with shock weapons, the main task of which is to protect our economic zone ... And who will protect the economic zone? Inflatable boat patrols ???
  • tforik
    tforik 24 October 2015 21: 52 New
    0
    Article class! Plus, definitely!
    Why is it flattened in the zone of the "black sea" in the east, in the region of Kazakhstan?
  • Ronino
    Ronino 24 October 2015 22: 36 New
    +1
    in two years, God forbid, it will be possible to draw another circle from the Baltic Sea ...
  • Bath Rumbets
    Bath Rumbets 25 October 2015 04: 58 New
    0
    Guys, calmly, who will fight * Caliber * ??? This is a local weapon
    1. tforik
      tforik 25 October 2015 09: 56 New
      0
      And someone was going to fight on a large scale? I don’t think so)
  • Balbesoid
    Balbesoid 25 October 2015 10: 05 New
    +1
    Quote: stalkerwalker
    Quote: Coward
    40ft container on direction finding deck ?! !! Oh well.
    You would temper your ur-patriotism.

    You do not confuse pleasure yachts on the Istra Reservoir with Oken ships with a deadweight of 50 thousand and more.
    And nobody interferes with the direction finding deck to strengthen and lengthen the dimensions of 40 feet - no register limits ... wassat

    Are you a timid loafer otkel with a burning eye? I’m here, for example, from that very Murmansk, about which you, probably, only heard in the news. We sit with our military and non-military sailors over your opuses. Where could this nonsense be brought into my head? Shake it immediately belay
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 25 October 2015 11: 01 New
      +2
      Quote: Balbesoid
      I’m, for example, from that very Murmansk

      Yes, you probably registered at the Five Corners? With the local homeless - "military and non-military sailors"? laughing
      You lift your head from the ground - you will see the boats in the bay. Various. wassat
  • capitosha1rang
    capitosha1rang 25 October 2015 10: 13 New
    -1
    You can completely calmly paint the whole globe in blue and pink.
    What is the Caspian and Black Seas? And the whole world Ocean, which is plowed by hundreds of Russian ships, from handsome liners to rusted "fishermen". How many “Caliber” can be covered in BMRT? And on the oceanographic ship, for example, Admiral Vladimirsky?
    If you go to the website of any Russian shipping company or shipping company, you can find out the location of the vessels. Next, we take a compass and, on the scale of the map, push its legs apart at 1500 km (what has already been reliably confirmed) and draw, draw, draw circles, taking another vessel as the center. Our "circles" will cover the earth's surface in several layers, resembling fried potatoes in a pan.
    That's about what really smelled of fried, and the head of the "Westerners" and our overseas "colleagues" hurt.
  • tforik
    tforik 25 October 2015 10: 36 New
    -2
    It looks like our bulkhead wiped the Yankees nose!
    Successfully launched 26 missiles! On duty is still at least a hundred!
    What can vaunted American forces counterpose? Do they have a similar weapon?
    they were far behind the campaign, all the grandmas spent on missile defense, but laser weapons)))
    1. mav1971
      mav1971 26 October 2015 01: 19 New
      0
      Quote: tforik
      It looks like our bulkhead wiped the Yankees nose!
      Successfully launched 26 missiles! On duty is still at least a hundred!
      What can vaunted American forces counterpose? Do they have a similar weapon?
      they were far behind the campaign, all the grandmas spent on missile defense, but laser weapons)))


      Welcome to the internet.
      Now you need to learn how to use search engines.
      For example Yandex.
      type in the search bar KR Tomahawk.
      See links. You study.
      Turn on the brain.
      And so in each case, when you want to blurt out something.
      And never again write that nonsense that you just wrote.
      D, B!
      1. tforik
        tforik 26 October 2015 11: 32 New
        0
        Well, this is the past generation. Caliber, as I understand it, is much more modern ?!
        1. mav1971
          mav1971 26 October 2015 13: 38 New
          +1
          Quote: tforik
          Well, this is the past generation. Caliber, as I understand it, is much more modern ?!

          No.
          The caliber is completely analogous to the Tomahawk.
  • Balbesoid
    Balbesoid 25 October 2015 11: 24 New
    0
    Quote: stalkerwalker
    Quote: Balbesoid
    I’m, for example, from that very Murmansk

    Yes, you probably registered at the Five Corners? With the local homeless - "military and non-military sailors"? laughing
    You lift your head from the ground - you will see the boats in the bay. Various. wassat

    Raised, I look - at the Five corners it is a bit cold. There is only any kind of coal loading in the port. Interestingly, you are our freighter, where are you going to get container ships ?!))) Looks like a fleet at Abram Cape ?! But not, I realized, on a green cape under the monument!))) There, the “Pioneer of Cola” is still standing - hurry up, the curse bearer, and even the “Pioneer” will soon fit into the container itself.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 25 October 2015 11: 28 New
      +2
      Quote: Balbesoid
      Raised, I look - at the Five corners it is a bit cold.

      And what do "military and non-military sailors" - "awl" not offer? wassat
      Quote: Balbesoid
      where are you going to get some container ships ?!))) Looks like a fleet on Abram-cape ?! But not, I realized, on a green cape under the monument!)))

      Well, if for you to get to Sour lips - a reason for the badge "For a military campaign", then what can I say? Or does the world end behind Kildin? laughing
  • Balbesoid
    Balbesoid 25 October 2015 11: 45 New
    0
    The world ends earlier!))) And I agree with you about the containers - not even discussed laughing But, with container ships - it’s you who got hot, uncle !!!))) Especially, with their five-minute being in the public domain! You’ll agree that you got excited, you’ll get an “ally” -buhatiko from Pyatina!)))
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 25 October 2015 11: 57 New
      +2
      Quote: Balbesoid
      But, with container ships - it’s you who flinched, uncle !!!)))

      Min Herz! (Shaw in Dutch means my dear), the eastern Mediterranean is a storehouse of unaccounted for. From Hong Kong and Busan - so much good rusts .... South America - just look into the bins.
      It would be a wish ...

      Quote: Balbesoid
      You’ll agree that you got excited, you’ll get an “ally” -buhatiko from Pyatina!)))

      Maybe got excited ... fellow But I’m sure that in two weeks you CAN find what you are looking for. The main issue is the issue of introducing the container carrier into operation. Here is the state of the power plant, the condition of the hull and auxiliary mechanisms.
      Given the immense number of shipyards and slipways in China alone, to bring the boat to mind is a matter of 2-3 months. There would be money and desire ...
  • Mercenary
    Mercenary 25 October 2015 11: 45 New
    0
    And if you add navigable rivers, where can the missile carriers go? Geyropa in his favorite place. laughing