Military Review

Starving God of War

45
The production of shells in Russia can be considered over


No matter how much buried artillery, it was, is and will be the god of war. Evidence of this is all the armed confrontations of our time. But without enough shells, cannons are useless.

I am not a tanker. And I am not going to criticize the Armat combat vehicle. Perhaps she really is the best in the world. But in my shell business, I am, I will say, without false modesty, an expert. Thirty-six years engaged in the technology of mechanical processing of artillery shells. I know in all necessary details what the mass production of ammunition is.

Starving God of WarNo matter how good the tank is, but without shells it turns into a burden for the army. Vasily Grabin called the tank a gun wagon. As for the "Almaty", it threatens to become a vehicle for the crew, hidden in a capsule, if the shell issue is not resolved.

In accordance with plans until 2020, it is planned to adopt 2300 tanks "Armata" (and this is not counting the cars on its platform). Uralvagonzavod intends to produce 500 units per year. “Armata” is equipped with a 125-mm cannon much longer than the existing ones with the new BPS (armor-piercing-submunition shells) “Vacuum-1”. In addition, it is stated that this is a temporary solution. And on the approach a 152-mm gun, the shells of which are capable of burning a meter of steel. Thus, the tank for many years will be inaccessible to competitors. Hearing about this, I perked up, imagining how much work for us, projectile specialists.

In ammunition "Almaty" 45 BPS caliber 125 millimeters. Caliber 152 millimeter will obviously not be more than thirty units. The developers comment on the situation as follows: of course, the ammunition for the 152-mm gun will be significantly less than for the 125-mm. Let's do arithmetic.

Multiplying 30 shells by 2300, we get 69 thousands. This is for all tanks and only for one battle. And the whole war? It is easy to figure out: for tanks such as "Armata" you need at least a million shells per year. But there is also the "Coalition", and self-propelled and towed howitzers tested in battles, which will remain in service with our army for a long time. We are talking about millions of shells.

Who and where will they be manufactured if, at present, the shell production in our country has been almost completely destroyed? For "Armat", passed on Red Square 9 May, they can be done on the knee. And for the entire planned fleet of these cars? Mass production of ammunition is not as simple as it may seem.

So where are they going to do anyway? To me, the old projectile, in spite of the knowledgeable of all those more or less capable of this production, it remains only to be perplexed. For maneuvers and demonstration shooting, there is no doubt that shells will be stockpiled. And in case of a big war, when ammunition will be required by front echelons? Do not assume that the fighting in the Donbass continued until the last stocks of Soviet shells ended? And at the same time on both sides.

I thought that our shell institute, which in its defense industry is a backbone, will finally be in demand - TNITI (Tula Technological Research Institute of Technology). After all, we are talking about nothing less than the security of the country, the fate of the Armata tanks, the equipment industry and the unique institute of TNITI, which in my opinion live the last days thanks to the concerns of reformers, who had become famous.

Recently, I was at a meeting of shareholders TNITI. There was a question about the early resignation of the director. When he reported to the team, he asked what he thought about the prospects of the once powerful institute of production and production, designed to provide plants for the industry with new technologies, machines and non-standard equipment?

The director did not say anything intelligible. But after he proposed another reduction of workers, out of the crisis, of which there was absolutely nothing left, and to rent out the last production space, there was no desire to ask him anything.

In conditions when everything at the enterprise is decided by several people who have the lion’s share of the shares, voting turns into a formality, into a fiction. Judge for yourself. Out of a thousand-plus shareholders, there were hardly a hundred. Nevertheless, the quorum gathered. Contrary to the wishes of the team, the director remained in office - to complete the last act of our tragedy, which stretched over 25 years.

The production of artillery shells in my memory was already in a similar position as a result of the reforms of Nikita Khrushchev. The leader of the Soviet state, suffering from a heavy rocket attack, defeated domestic artillery under zero. And at the same time and ammunition industry. After this pogrom in Tula, a shell institute was created in 1966, and we had to start literally from scratch.

By 1990, TNITI has become a truly unique institution - with its machine-tool production capacity of up to 150 machine tools per year, as well as non-standard equipment throughout the entire ammunition production cycle, from billet to finish. Three and a half thousand employees, a branch of the department of the Tula Polytechnic Institute, the training of engineering and scientific personnel - 40 candidates of technical sciences exclusively from their employees.

And today we should start with this. At the former shell plants a lot of free space, but the equipment is worn to the limit. Back in 1985, it was planned to completely replace it by the year of 2000. One can imagine what the age of the machine park is today - that part of it that is not scrapped, sold out and not taken apart for spare parts.

Maybe someone thinks to buy equipment abroad? However, neither America nor Europe will sell us the equipment for sludge production. Look at which machine tool plant was built by the German concern Gildemeister AG in Ulyanovsk. ECOLINE machines for someone, maybe, are good, but shells cannot make them. And judging by the fact that 1000 machines will make 200 workers, this is a screwdriver assembly.

By the way, this is what G. Samodurov, head of the Association of Manufacturers of Machine Tool Products, says: “... there is complete statistics showing how we are restricted in supplying a modern product, we are prohibited from supplying modern equipment to Russia for defense industry enterprises that work in dual technology. If they receive this equipment, it is done in different roundabout ways, through third-fourth countries, but this is not the case. And we have a lot of examples when they stop and shut off foreign equipment, especially American-made. We can recall specific facts, for example, in 2010, and in 2011, and in 2012, when a number of enterprises turned off equipment when moving it a meter or two from the initial installation site ”(“ Aging machine park ”,“ VPK ”, No. 7, 2014).

How to convey to those on whom the defense capability and security of the state depend, which is not too late, it is necessary to restore TNITI at least in the former Soviet dimensions. We must buy equipment for it, cherish it. There is simply no other way, in my deep conviction. But today TNITI can practically nothing of what it has done before. The staff is only 300 people, of whom hardly a hundred workers. We are talking about walls, factory buildings and traditions. If the state wants to revive shell production in Russia, it is impossible to do without a technological institute with a powerful machine-tool production.

Why is it necessary to revive the industry with TNITI? Do not start in the same bare spot. It was not for nothing that Tula was chosen as the location of the leading institute of the ammunition industry. There are no problems with specialists, because there is a Polytechnic Institute, which is closely related to the defense industry. And before the machine-tool plants, which ordered equipment for the industry, located mainly in the Urals and Siberia, are within reach. In addition to the slugging machines, many others were needed - artillery shells do not consist of the same buildings. By the way, we were engaged not only with shells, but with “melee combat”, and NURSs, and aerial bombs, and mines, and much more.

In the meantime, we didn’t set up our own plant, we went to Leningrad for the shell machines, and then to Krasnodar, where we organized the production of the KM-816 and KM-817 machines developed by our designers. When ordering equipment for my plants, I traveled all over the European part of the Union: Kiev, Kharkov, Melitopol, Minsk, Vitebsk, Krasnodar, Leningrad, Ryazan, Moscow, Klin, Yegoryevsk, Saratov, Kuibyshev, Penza, Voronezh, Zhytomyr. The entire geography of the deceased machine tool industry is in full view - some are not, and those are far away.

Dr. Kallistov, Ph.D. and academician who has worked all his life in the industry, wrote: “In Soviet times, one of the most important components of the ammunition industry was its own machine-tool industry and, on this basis, designing the technological chains of munitions factories that met modern progressive technologies and with the least labor costs allowed to produce the required amount of ammunition ... Unfortunately, currently own machine-tool industry in the ammunition industry and in our country does not exist, but because of the virtual absence of orders for the production of ammunition or miniscule amounts involved in their production of the required qualification, as a rule, no. "

And where will they come from, if only MGTU im. Bauman has a full-fledged department, training ammunition? Will graduates of this department go, for example, to the Upper Tour? And maybe they will go to Tula. Tula Technical University has not trained for a long time its personnel. Although it could.

It is easy for a specialist to calculate that the shelf life of Soviet shells is running out. It would seem that TNITI’s finest hour has come - once again a state order, financial investments, work will boil. If this is not done, the ammunition industry will remain at the bottom of the trough. Artillery shells will have to buy from China, Israel, the western neighbors of the former Warsaw Pact, which we ourselves once helped set up production.

Throughout the First World War, up to the 1916 year, until the Brusilov breakthrough, the Russian army suffered from a shortage of artillery shells. In 1916, the defense industry produced their 50 millions, eliminating the deficit. But it was already too late, exhausted by exhausting battles that did not lead to results, the army not only did not oppose, but also took the most active part in two revolutions.

In the Great Patriotic War, despite the loss in the first months of the main ammunition factories, it was possible to restore and surpass pre-war shell production with resolute measures. In one 1942 year, 73,4 made a million artillery shells of various calibers.

However, then superiority was achieved by the selfless labor of old men, women, teenagers in the rear ammunition factories and the feat of technologists who managed to divide the manufacture of the same shells into elementary operations using universal machines. But now even selflessness cannot solve anything, since the wear and tear of equipment both in the defense industry and in machine building in general has far exceeded reasonable limits. In the event of a big war, there will simply be nothing to do with projectiles, no matter how mobilized labor resources.
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  1. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 25 October 2015 07: 18 New
    -21
    An interesting way to PR, read and other articles of this author-campaign hiked TC, and that's aching.
    1. Wheel
      Wheel 25 October 2015 09: 37 New
      23
      Are you special?
      Do you own the decor?
      Something tells me that in matters of the defense industry you are at zero level.
      This fall was in Tula.
      Everything is sad, even very.
      Where something else is being done, it is done on the knee and in scanty volumes.
      I’ll add from myself that with the gunpowder we have a pipe, and with trunks.
      But PR is unattainable in former times.
      1. i80186
        i80186 25 October 2015 10: 45 New
        +1
        Quote: Wheel
        Are you special?

        I'm certainly not special on shells. But I understand tanks. smile
        Фугасные и кумулятивные снаряды, для 125мм танковых пушек, как старых, так и новых, ничем не отличаются. Т. е. необходимо изготовить только БОПС, коих в штатном боекомплекте 5-6 штук. Исходим из расчёта 10 снарядов на поражение одного современного танка(для которого новые БОПС и нужны) их необходимо иметь, учитывая количество танков у противника, скажем 100000-150000шт -это 65 снарядов на танк максимум, учитывая любую войну. 152мм пушка вообще не ясно когда появится. "Всёпропало" очередное. winked
        1. Yon_Silent
          Yon_Silent 25 October 2015 13: 16 New
          19
          Интересно говорите - "изготовить БОПС". Если грифель какой или свинец с вантом - то на кой они нужны? А новый, вообще-то, еще и разработать надо. В смысле - полноценный НИОКР провести. А кто у нас в стране подобные работы выполняет? правильно - тот самый ТНИТИ и московский НИМИ. Автор сетует на безобразное состояние дел со средствами производства и с кадрами...логично, ему на своем предприятии обстановка хорошо видна. Что касается НИМИ (а он головной разработчик всех отечественных БПС), то там тоже..как бы это выразиться помягче...цирк с конями. И это только организации-разработчики. А что творится сейчас на бывших снарядных заводах-производителях с трудом могу представить.
          1. i80186
            i80186 25 October 2015 14: 49 New
            +3
            Quote: Jon_ Quiet
            In the sense - to carry out full R&D. And who in our country performs such work?

            I mean, do you think that you haven’t done this yet? Developed a cannon and a loading mechanism for a new projectile, but not? Brilliant is the same. laughing
            1. shasherin.pavel
              shasherin.pavel 25 October 2015 17: 47 New
              +2
              Quote: i80186
              no shell? Brilliantly the same.

              если это был бы 155-мм снаряд, то я понимаю, у нас ведь 155 мм стволов ещё не наблюдалось, калибр то иностранный. Но когда пишут про 152-милимитровый, то это же нарезной и ни чем не отличается от "Акации" и других. Как я писал раньше, снова от не знающих минусов нахватаю, российская система калибров отличается от западной, тем что наши измеряют калибр по снаряду, а они по медному пояску снаряда - это называется по внутренним долям нарезов, для нас, и по внешним долям нарезов для Запада. Но для гладкоствольного для нас калибра в 155-мм, когда нарезка ствола устраняется, что даёт нам прибавку в 3 мм, то станет 155 мм. У Ис-2 калибр был 122 с нарезным стволом, а стал 125 при гладком. Но если останется нарезной 152 мм снаряд, то чего огород городить? Можно ведь и два вида "Арматы" иметь со 125 мм стволом, как сейчас, а часть вооружить 152 мм. Были же ИСУ-122 мм и ИСУ 152 мм. Когда здесь обсуждали кадры стрельбы из "Арматы", я писал, о том, что "ствол "Арматы" при выстреле не имеет отката, но танк сотрясается больше чем Т-72", и предположил, что ствол 125 наложен на механизм отката 152 мм пушки. Меньшая мощность отдачи, приводит к тому, что механизм отката меньше восприимчив к выстрелу и больше передаёт на станок и сам танк. Видимо действительно:
              Quote: i80186
              no shell?
              , but then it turns out that they are preparing a smooth barrel, and not a rifled one. And the caliber should be 155 mm with blades opening in flight.
          2. lelikas
            lelikas 25 October 2015 14: 49 New
            +3
            В прошлом году Индия закупила 66тыс.(42 тыс.) БОПС "Манго" - и ничего , а себе не сможем сделать ?
            The author was definitely thrown with the order, and so he burst into flames.
        2. Wheel
          Wheel 25 October 2015 13: 50 New
          +7
          Quote: i80186
          you need to have them, taking into account the number of tanks the enemy has, say 100000-150000 pieces — these are 65 shells per tank maximum,
          C'mon ... a millionaire of stuff, like, and on the knee can be done?
          Disappointing - it is impossible.
          And there were continuous knees.
          1. i80186
            i80186 25 October 2015 14: 53 New
            -8
            Quote: Wheel
            C'mon ... a millionaire of stuff, like, and on the knee can be done?

            I’ll repeat it specifically for you. How many shells do you need in order to destroy one tank? How many tanks does the enemy have? What is a millionaire for? Are you going to find somewhere a couple of hundred thousand modern tanks for these shells? smile
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 25 October 2015 15: 59 New
              +8
              Quote: i80186
              How many tanks does the enemy have? What is a millionaire for?

              Listen to you - on one AK you need a maximum of two horns. The first Chechen one happened during an attempt to take control of the Grozny airport. The attempt remained an attempt.
              1. i80186
                i80186 25 October 2015 16: 17 New
                -4
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Listen to you - on one AK you need a maximum of two horns. The first Chechen one happened during an attempt to take control of the Grozny airport. The attempt remained an attempt.

                Тут даже и сказать нечего. Надо нам тогда ещё пару-тройку миллионов "Инваров" сделать, Вы про них забыли. smile
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 25 October 2015 17: 26 New
                  +7
                  Quote: i80186
                  Тут даже и сказать нечего. Надо нам тогда ещё пару-тройку миллионов "Инваров" сделать, Вы про них забыли

                  Smiled, a couple of million of my clones. Wife will not pull! laughing But in fact? Armata is planned as a replacement for the T-72 line as MBT. The concept of the use of MBT involves the conduct of prolonged combat operations. And long-term military operations involve a certain amount of ammunition. Or do you rely on the principle: one shell - one tank? fool A minimum of hundreds of three or four in stock must be in stock, for each unit. If you do not want to stay with an empty automatic loader after two weeks of fighting. hi
                  P.S. Cons for the previous koment were not mine, but I corrected. wink
                  1. i80186
                    i80186 26 October 2015 06: 36 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    A minimum of hundreds of three or four in stock must be in stock, for each unit.

                    Well, for sure, and to give each infantryman a tank a minimum, preferably two. laughing
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Smiled, a couple of million of my clones. Wife won't pull

                    Я же говорю, всё понятно. 9М119М - "Инвар-М" управляемая ракета комплекса "Рефлекс-М". Их тоже по 300-400 на танк, или по два десятка хватит? Хотя они ещё с объемно детонирующими частями бывают, я думаю надо отказаться от обычных фугасов(ими же хрен попадёшь) и полностью перейти на ракеты. repeat
              2. insafufa
                insafufa 26 October 2015 06: 45 New
                +3
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Quote: i80186
                How many tanks does the enemy have? What is a millionaire for?

                Listen to you - on one AK you need a maximum of two horns. The first Chechen one happened during an attempt to take control of the Grozny airport. The attempt remained an attempt.


                In the Second World War, for every soldier killed at the front, there were 25 rounds
                1. i80186
                  i80186 26 October 2015 06: 48 New
                  +1
                  Quote: insafufa
                  In the Second World War, for every soldier killed at the front, there were 25 rounds

                  What about submunitions for 85mm tank guns per tiger? Lord, why are people from the infantry trying to talk about tank shells? laughing
                  By the way, to make it clearer, everyone speaks close to real shot. Count the shells and tanks?
                  1. insafufa
                    insafufa 26 October 2015 08: 06 New
                    +1
                    Quote: i80186
                    Quote: insafufa
                    In the Second World War, for every soldier killed at the front, there were 25 rounds

                    What about submunitions for 85mm tank guns per tiger? Lord, why are people from the infantry trying to talk about tank shells? laughing
                    By the way, to make it clearer, everyone speaks close to real shot. Count the shells and tanks?


                    In general, from Artragvedka, I personally saw the consumption of conventional shells for one target on a kovkaz
                    If for one purpose the consumption of ATGMs is on average 2-3 pieces if the tank has all the bells and whistles
                    then for the destruction of one gang of 10k militants, the expenditure averaged from 20-30 shells that were not controlled, then adjustable centimeters needed 3 pieces, then red fields needed as strange as skin
                    1. i80186
                      i80186 2 November 2015 09: 52 New
                      0
                      Quote: insafufa
                      In general, from Artragvedka, I personally saw the consumption of conventional shells for one target on a kovkaz

                      And here I am from tankers, and personally shot, and believe me, rarely more than two shells were required on the target, and high-explosive ones. For direct fire. To throw an auditory window at a distance of 1,5 km is not a problem at all. smile
                  2. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 26 October 2015 10: 37 New
                    +5
                    Quote: i80186
                    By the way, to make it clearer, everyone is talking close to real shot.

                    Ага, близко к реальному. Один "Шерман" батальон СС раздолбал!(дальше по фильму) Голливуд жжет! laughing
                  3. lelikas
                    lelikas 26 October 2015 12: 05 New
                    +4
                    Quote: i80186
                    By the way, to make it clearer, everyone speaks close to real shot. Count the shells and tanks?

                    It was shot beautifully, but in reality - all three Sherman and would not have reached the middle of the field.
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 26 October 2015 13: 55 New
                      0
                      Quote: lelikas
                      in reality - all three Sherman and would not have reached the middle of the field.

                      Exactly! Hollywood in one word! drinks
                    2. cth; fyn
                      cth; fyn 27 October 2015 09: 23 New
                      0
                      It’s not true, furry is a firefly, and its cannon already took 300 meters into the tiger’s forehead. But in general, I agree the battle is not logical.
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 27 October 2015 10: 24 New
                        0
                        Quote: cth; fyn
                        it’s a firefly, and his cannon already took 300 meters into the tiger’s forehead.

                        I didn’t take it in the forehead (with ordinary armor-piercing ones). Like our 85th. hi
                    3. i80186
                      i80186 2 November 2015 09: 51 New
                      0
                      Quote: lelikas
                      It was shot beautifully, but in reality - all three Sherman and would not have reached the middle of the field.

                      Well, yes, it would be so, but how many shells are there to defeat one Sherman? smile
                  4. Atemzug
                    Atemzug 10 November 2015 16: 20 New
                    0
                    Fire on the go, without a stabilizer?
                    Я не знаю где та "реальность" и кто те "все", кому это показалось похожим.

                    Itself shot only practical on the T-72A.
        3. Viktortopwar
          Viktortopwar 25 October 2015 19: 02 New
          -1
          In the standard ammunition 5-6 BOPS? Do you think so? ...
          1. i80186
            i80186 26 October 2015 06: 33 New
            +2
            Quote: Viktortopwar
            staff ammunition 5-6 BOPS? Do you think so? ...

            I do not think, I know. smile
    2. viktorR
      viktorR 25 October 2015 16: 29 New
      +1
      An interesting way to PR, read and other articles of this author-campaign hiked TC, and that's aching.

      In my opinion, the specialist will never say
      152-mm gun, the shells of which are able to burn a meter of steel

      So it was not in vain that he was thrown ...
      1. cth; fyn
        cth; fyn 27 October 2015 09: 26 New
        0
        So yes, the jet doesn’t burn through, but rather pushes the armor with gigantic gas pressure, pierces it.
        1. kolyhalovs
          kolyhalovs 13 November 2015 11: 26 New
          0
          why gases? under tremendous pressure, the metal melts (there is a special element in the shell surrounded by explosives, which actually then flies in the form of a hot stream) and this LIQUID jet of metal punches a hole in the armor under tremendous pressure. Like a needle.
  2. mr.vasilievich
    mr.vasilievich 25 October 2015 08: 24 New
    14
    A very serious topic has been raised. Any new weapon requires a large amount of ammunition. And if an employee from this area is sounding the alarm, then the situation in providing ammunition, unfortunately, is not so hot.
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 25 October 2015 15: 15 New
      +8
      Quote: mr.vasilievich
      A very serious topic has been raised. Any new weapon requires a large amount of ammunition. And if an employee from this area is sounding the alarm, then the situation in providing ammunition, unfortunately, is not so hot.

      if you dig a little deeper, in 2013 -
      Завершены госиспытания, приняты на снабжение новые боеприпасы для танковой пушки 2А82. Начато их серийное производство, первая партия в этом году принята МО и направлена в арсеналы для формирования нормативных запасов. Ко времени постановки на вооружение основного танка семейства "Армата" будут созданы как нормативные запасы боеприпасов, так и обеспечена текущая потребность на боевую подготовку. Заводы завершают очередной этап изготовления бронетанкового вооружения и техники по заданию министерства обороны и уже завершили изготовление трех опытных образцов.

      it is clear that he is not the only one who thinks about ammunition. yes
      And if from more recent -
      АО "Научно-производственный концерн "Технологии машиностроения" (входит в госкорпорацию "Ростех") — холдинговая компания в области промышленности боеприпасов и спецхимии. Концерн выпускает высокоточные артиллерийские и танковые боеприпасы, артиллерийские выстрелы различного назначения, реактивные системы залпового огня, неуправляемые авиационные ракеты, малокалиберные боеприпасы, авиационно-бомбовые средства поражения.
      В состав "Техмаша" входят 48 организаций промышленности боеприпасов и спецхимии, 47 организаций относятся к оборонно-промышленному комплексу. Многие предприятия и научно-исследовательские институты, вошедшие в состав холдинга, имеют историю, насчитывающую несколько десятилетий. Организации компании располагаются на территории 15 субъектов РФ.

      T, e, there are problems, but there is someone to solve them.
  3. aleksandrs95
    aleksandrs95 25 October 2015 10: 17 New
    +7
    The problem is more than strategic, shell production is not only a costly item but also a profitable expense of export. Attention must be paid constantly. Because modern shells can destroy super modern systems from old weapons.
  4. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 25 October 2015 10: 22 New
    10
    And you read the other opuses of this employee. And as for the special, not special, MR-123, MP-600 (20 years) was closely involved. In Soviet times, various offices pulled a blanket over themselves telling how everything was bad and how others could not cope with the order .By the way, read this article in the full original. And about Tula, do you just go around the enterprises? Or at the level of conversations. Tells something to him ..... By the way, I do not say that everything is fine and good, but the work is being done, it may not as fast as I would like. And the author in the full version of the article simply stupidly admitted that they broke off their office with an order for shells and gave the contract to another enterprise. By the way, read his opus about Armata’s tank platform, in his opinion it’s also not needed, we can handle it with the T-90.
  5. runway
    runway 25 October 2015 11: 08 New
    14
    Если бы с производством боеприпасов было бы всё отлично, то и писали бы об этом. Но, к сожалению, в той сфере экономики - "оборонке", где мы традиционно были сильны, уже явно наблюдаются процессы разрухи.
    Был бы рад оказаться неправым, но хроническое неисполнение гособоронзаказа, последние события на космодроме Восточном, производство кораблей и авиационной техники в штучном количестве говорят о тяжёлой болезни нашей экономики. Если бы было наоборот, "оборонка" и не заметила бы непоставки Украиной двигателей для наших фрегатов и вертолётов.... Я на этом сайте просматриваю информацию не один год, и пока не видел той сферы нашей экономики, где было бы всё "отлично".
    If our current leaders didn’t disagree with deeds, import substitution would have already been carried out three times, and all sectors of the economy would be so modernized that they would shine like Vasya’s cat.
    1. Wheel
      Wheel 25 October 2015 11: 50 New
      +6
      Quote: piston
      Я на этом сайте просматриваю информацию не один год, и пока не видел той сферы нашей экономики, где было бы всё "отлично".

      Well, what about?
      Нефтянка, "народное достояние", банковская сфера и экспорт зерна.
    2. lelikas
      lelikas 25 October 2015 14: 52 New
      +2
      Quote: piston
      If everything would be fine with the production of ammunition, then they would write about it.

      So it’s not interesting to anyone - a plane or a ship is another matter, and today, our plant produced 5000 rounds of ammunition and 100 shells for an article - at best, they will look askance.
    3. GRAY
      GRAY 27 October 2015 08: 16 New
      0
      Quote: piston
      Я на этом сайте просматриваю информацию не один год, и пока не видел той сферы нашей экономики, где было бы всё "отлично".

      It’s not customary to write about such things.
  6. Colonel
    Colonel 25 October 2015 12: 55 New
    +1
    To the question of specialists
    But in my shell business I am, I will say without false modesty, a specialist.

    and at the same time
    which shells are capable burn steel meter.

    and is it special?
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 25 October 2015 14: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: colonel
      and is it special?

      Of course, special! The fact that she and the OFS are also needed - I did not even think. Shells must be made at the factory, and the institute must develop them and have pilot production.
  7. epron
    epron 25 October 2015 12: 57 New
    +2
    Mlyayayayaya! Everything is lost, the guns are cleaned, the bedans distributed. And then a herak, from the Caspian for 50 km, through two states. They also shouted about the T-350, and now, as planned, the combat line of weapons is being filled. Probably, it’s not just the couches that have a headache about the security of the state. Here the other day the S-XNUMX presented.
  8. Cap.Morgan
    Cap.Morgan 25 October 2015 13: 32 New
    +2
    Firstly, Armata is still under development and development. This process will take years. During this time, they will learn how to solve the shell problem. So I see no reason to panic.
    Moreover, Russia began active hostilities in Syria, the shell arsenals will require replenishment, which means there will be new orders for both gunpowder and shells. And as a result, financing will go.
  9. anip
    anip 25 October 2015 13: 50 New
    +2
    Recently, I was at a meeting of shareholders TNITI. There was a question about the early resignation of the director. When he reported to the team, he asked what he thought about the prospects of the once powerful institute of production and production, designed to provide plants for the industry with new technologies, machines and non-standard equipment?
    The director did not say anything intelligible. But after he proposed another reduction of workers, out of the crisis, of which there was absolutely nothing left, and to rent out the last production space, there was no desire to ask him anything.

    Дык. а Вы думаете, что такое (подобное) творится только на Вашем предприятии? Да такое творится на большинстве предприятий, все реформы и вся борьба с кризисом заключается в сокращении тех, кто действительно работает (а по версии руководства и топ-менеджеров - "ненужных" работников). Это экономика по путински.
  10. dvg79
    dvg79 25 October 2015 14: 13 New
    10
    I agree with the author of the article because of the ostentatious achievements of the defense industry, it is often empty. I don’t know how much ammunition production is left and what the real situation is, but at the Komsomolsk aircraft factory where the PAK FA is doing, the situation is awful - specialists are fired in packs (a colleague from whom he worked there said there are good friends and relatives, by the way, he himself used to work in the production of ammunition, now there’s just no factory).
  11. ratcatcher
    ratcatcher 25 October 2015 15: 20 New
    +4
    Great article. The war is won not by the demonstration of Almaty (new weapons are important, but only in the system), but by logistics and support.
    In 1941, the Germans had all the tanks worse than the Soviet, however, it was organization and logistics that helped them achieve great success at that stage ...
    And what is now ... The result of the social and economic system of the past 25 years ...
    Even the Coalition, with its unique double-barreled layout, fell a victim, apparently, in many respects, imperfections in logistics and the breakdown of production and was simplified to a single-barrel model ...
  12. Gray 43
    Gray 43 25 October 2015 17: 17 New
    +4
    Я бы не стал так ругать автора-во многих сферах мы в роли догоняющих. В 90-е зарубежные "партнёры" приложили немало усилий для развала уникальных предприятий,"мебельщик" ратовал за всё зарубежное,расформировывая учебные заведения,а ведь ещё Сталин выдвинул лозунг-"Кадры решают всё!". Да,мы сильны в разработках ракетной техники и это мы продемонстрировали на весь мир,хорошо работают войска РЭБ,а с ударными беспилотниками дела пока идут не ахти,хотя штатники подобной техникой пользуются вовсю,правда,частенько достаётся мирному населению. Люди "в теме" хорошо знают долю импорта в современных броневиках серии "Тайфун"-даже колёса "мишленовские".
  13. zulusuluz
    zulusuluz 25 October 2015 20: 31 New
    +3
    Читаю многие комментарии и просто хочется плакать. От того, что некоторые, к сожалению, не видят главного - упадка в инженерной и технологической отраслях. Может автора и "завалили" с ТС, но какие бы ни были причины, мысль он выражает верную - нужно учить людей и восстанавливать промышленность. В конце-концов от кадров зависит если не все, то многое.
  14. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 26 October 2015 02: 02 New
    +1
    A work colleague with friends there told .....- absolutely reliable information)))))
  15. Andrey NM
    Andrey NM 26 October 2015 05: 15 New
    +3
    Long live paid education! Hooray to masters and bachelors! A few more such reforms in the field of education, and there will be no cadres at all.
    Затягивание денежных потоков ближе к центру тоже ни к чему хорошему не приведет. Институт теплотехники с Булавой уже нам это показал, в результате "макеевцев" все равно пришлось привлекать, а так бы не понятно, когда Булава нормально полетела бы.
    А выпускник Бауманки поедет куда-то из столицы? Ага, разбежался. На местах нужно учить. И вообще, нельзя такие институты акционировать, в результате потом получаем вопросы, то ли в аренду помещения сдать, то ли продаться кому-нибудь, а ответсвенные за этот бардак по УДО выходят или по амнистии становятся "секретными Героями России".
  16. Arjuna
    Arjuna 26 October 2015 09: 50 New
    +1
    Со дня основания мой маленький, уральский городок, точил для российской армии снаряды. В 30-х годах, посетил нас тов. Ордженикидзе. И в городе появился гипсовый памятник и американские гидравлические пресса. На руку гипсовому Ордженикидзе периодически вешался сапог - дань уважения местного народонаселения к сов. власти, "американцы" же, с...ки, не захотели работать на нашем машинном масле и всю войну, в масляные ванны лилось растительное масло. Народ от голода пух, а в прессах чвакало чистейшее масло. Это не легенда, что рабочие себя к станкам привязывали, чтобы не рухнуть на шпиндель от голода!!! Мы точили снаряды! В три смены. Я закончил техникум при заводе, где вчерашние студенты из Тулы, только что закончившие институт, и попавшие по распределению в наш "медвежий угол", предавали нам самые, на то момент, передовые знания. Низкий поклон им за это! С "допусками и посадками" до сих пор проблем нет.
    So what am I doing? And to the fact that the only city-forming enterprise that has equipped the fleet and army with modern shells for centuries has been covered with a copper basin in the early 90s and guess what it is doing now? What is now with the city - I will not ask. Bitter to me ...
  17. GRAY
    GRAY 27 October 2015 08: 30 New
    0
    For some reason, the article does not completely take into account the number of shells already in the warehouses, as if they were not there at all - this is wrong. I don’t think that in the Moscow region fools are sitting, how much they wrote off - they ordered so much.