Military Review

Battle of the Vorskla River

52
"... He began to fight, -
The world of such a war did not know!

So bravely did not fight
Iskander, that Rum owned,
So bravely did not fight
Rustam himself - so what was he brave!
Husband of Genghis, whose father Uzekei,
They say it was:
Flame carved out of stones
Water carved out of the sands
He cut out the blood from their husbands.
He cut the spirit out of enemies,
But when Idegei struck,
All together he was stronger! .. "

Tatar folk epic "Idegey"
Song of the Eleventh


Battle of the Vorskla River
Coat of arms of the Golden Horde


After the campaign Aksak-Timur in 1395-1396. on the Lower Volga region, the North Caucasus and the Crimea, it seemed that the Golden Horde, once powerful and great, was slowly dying. The cities of the Volga region lay in ruins. The adjusted life of the Tatar empire was disrupted. Hunger began, the plague broke out again. The united state has practically ceased to exist. Khan Toktamysh and his people roamed in the steppes of the Dnieper and the Crimea. He fled from Aksak-Timur, and then hid from his rivals in the hope of retaining at least some of his possessions. There was a distemper. There was a fierce struggle for power. Who was stronger, he became the ruler. It seemed that the great state that had once shaken Western Europe and Asia would never rise from the ruins and be reborn. And oh, how the neighbors hoped! But these hopes did not come true. At the last moment, when the country was already hanging over the precipice, there were forces that stopped the death of the Golden Horde on the very edge.

Tatar Karachibek Idegei became the head of the Beks and Emirs of Kok-Orda. In a short time, he stopped the strife and brought Khan Timur-Kutlug to power. All the Volga region, the North Caucasus and Bulgaria were subordinated to one ruler. In 1398, he broke into the Crimea and defeated Tokhtamysh, who was forced to flee to the Dnieper. A year before the astonished gaze of neighboring states, the Great Ulus rose from the ashes like a phoenix bird and began to gain strength.

In the spring of 1399 of the year, Khan Tokhtamysh clearly saw the strengthening of the positions of his enemies, headed by Idegei, and there was no more terrible power in Dasht-Kipchak than the power of a revived empire. Tokhtamysh urgently travels to Vilna to negotiate with the Grand Duke of Lithuania Vitovt and proposes to divide Russia in exchange for help in the fight against Idegei. The proposal of Tokhtamysh turned out to be very opportune, since Vitovt had long been carrying out a plan to capture part of Russia. In exchange for assistance in the war with Idegei, Tokhtamysh promises to recognize the rights of the Grand Duke of Lithuania to the Moscow principality, Novgorod, Pskov, Tver and Ryazan. He himself demands that Sarai, Kazan, Khadzhi-Tarkhan, Azak, the Trans-Volga steppes, the Nogai Horde, Kok-Orda be left behind him and return the throne of the Khan of the Golden Horde. Favorably agreeing to these conditions, Vitovt confidently stated: “And I'll take the Germans myself!”



Though the negotiations were secret, but their essence became known in remote countries and capitals of Europe and Asia, and everyone was anxiously awaiting news from Vilna. Owing to Vitovt's ingenious intrigues in Eastern Europe, a new balance of forces could have emerged. If Vitovt manages to put his protege in Ulus Juchi, then he and the Order will be able to crush Moscow, the last obstacle to the unification of the Russian principalities around Lithuania. The Golden Horde will sink into oblivion, and Lithuania will become the most influential and powerful state, and Vitovt - the master of the fate of Europe. Only Moscow and the Horde could resist this.

Idegei could not remain indifferent to the clouds, thickening over his country. The collection of troops was announced. Having no desire to fight with Lithuania, Idegei turned to Vitovt with a message, wanting to remind who actually rules in the Golden Horde and who owns the Russian lands: "Give me the fugitive Toktamysh, he is my enemy, I can not stay alone, knowing that he is alive and lives with you - these were his words." For a long time there was no answer. But here the dusty and exhausted messenger arrived at headquarters. He was immediately taken to Idegey’s tent, where he conveyed Vitovt’s answer: “I will not extradite the king Tokhtamysh, but I want to see the king Timur-Kutlug myself!” With such a rude answer, he wanted to show the great Karachibek Idegei that he should not interfere in the affairs of the born masters.

The forward units of both troops met on the Vorskla River. While the main forces were pulling in, Timur-Kutlug decided to hold talks. The ambassador, sent to Vitovt, referred the Khan's question: “Why did you come to me? I have not taken your land, neither your cities nor your villages. ” To which the Lithuanian prince replied: “God conquered all the land for me, submit to me and you, be my son, and I will be your father, and give me every year tribute and dues, but if you do not want to be a son, you will be a slave, and all your horde will be given to the sword! ". Hearing such a response, Khan’s advisors began to dissuade him from the battle and Timur-Kutlug faltered.

At this time, Idedei finally arrived in the Horde camp with his army. As soon as he heard about what had happened, he went into a frenzy and rushed into the tent, where the frightened khan and his emirs consulted. Right at all, Idegey began to sharply accuse Khan of faint-heartedness: "It is better for us to accept death than to be subordinate!" Idegey sent the emirs into his tumens and, removing the khan, took command in his own hands. It was decided to continue negotiations with Vitovt “one-on-one”.


Author M.V. Gorelik, 2012

The leaders met at a shallow river. The prince, full of strength, heroic addition and aging, low Tatar karachibek saw each other and had the opportunity to speak without strangers. Anticipating a major victory, Vitovt did not make any concessions, and each delay only convinced him of the weakness of the Horde. Idegey, however, went to Vorskla not to divide the Golden Horde with Tokhtamysh and Vitovt, but to assert its great power. He, who had been striving for power all his life, could not retreat alive and proudly answered the Lithuanian prince: “You rightly took our Khan as a sons, because you are older than him. But think for yourself: as I am older than you, so you are younger than me, and it befits me to be a father to you, and you to be my son; and tribute and tribute every summer I pay with all your reign; and in all your reign chased my stamp on your money! ” Vitovt choked with anger, hearing such an insult. Silently, he jumped on his horse and rushed to his troops to immediately prepare for battle.

12 August 1399 of the year came in history as the date of the most terrible and bloody battle of the Middle Ages.

Idegey built his army in six large corps, which were divided into three regiments (kula) numbering up to two or three thousand horsemen. Each wing carried the banner of his emir. Standards of emirs of the right and left wing of the Horde stood out on the flanks, and in the center the banner of the famous ancestor of the Tatars was hoisted.

Here we briefly stop to talk about this banner. At one time, the South-Chinese Ambassador Meng-hung, in his “Notes on Mongol-Tatars”, discovered and translated by Russian academician V.P. Vasilyev, left the following description of the banner of the First All-Tatar Tsar, elected by his people: “As a sign of Genghis’s presence, they spread a large banner, all white: besides this there are no other banners and banners ... Chingiz uses only one white banner on 9 tails: in the middle of it there is a black moon: it dissolves when they go camping. They say that besides him, only some of the commanders-in-chief have one banner each. ”



So, at the sight of this banner, over the slender ranks of the Horde army, the battle cry “Uranus!” Resounded. The reserve regiment under the command of Idegey himself was sheltered in a ravine, behind a large regiment. A light cavalry was advanced, usually armed with bows. Against the army of Idegey, the banners of the Russian-Lithuanian-Tatar army were lined up. Before the formation of the Allied rati, light bombers, arquebuses and a crossbowmen system were installed. The troops froze, getting ready for battle, and the generals toured the battle formations of their units, turning to their people. But then the trumpet trumpets chimed, drummed drums, cymbals struck, and the lava of the Tatar cavalry rushed forward. A cloud of arrows crumbled the front line of the allied forces, a little more - and the cavalry was supposed to crush the front line of the enemy. But they were met at close range by volley of cannons and crossbows. The Tatar cavalry, losing the dead and wounded, turned to the right on the move, sweeping along a curving arc along the enemy. Tohtamysh's horsemen jumped out of the ranks after them. Then, rocking the flags, slowly and menacingly, the main forces of the Russian-Lithuanian-Tatar army moved in, forming a wedge. Towards them, dropping their spears, trotted horde kula rushed, also lining up with a smashing wedge. Two armies, thousands of people screaming at each other!

At the moment of the collision, there was a terrible roar from the cod of broken spears, broken armor, wheezing of horses and death screams of the wounded. One by one the shelves disappeared in this bustling, deadly stream, and only by cutting banners could one determine which side was gaining the upper hand. As a mighty wave beat on the granite coast, so the two armies came together, but none could defeat the other force.

The battle went on for several hours, on the flanks of the horse-drawn Russian-Lithuanian banners began to crowd the Horde. The whole sky was clouded with dust and ears laid from a terrible hum. From the ranks of the fighting every now and then escaped mad horses, carrying the dead and wounded away. The army of the Horde people trembled, the enemy began to press them. Vitovt, in order to consolidate success, throws into battle his last reserves - Polish, German and Lithuanian knights. The large regiment of the Golden Horde arched like a bow, whose string was about to burst. However, what seemed to be the beginning of the retreat of the Horde was actually a skillful maneuver of Idegey. And when all the forces of Vitovt were drawn into this "meat grinder", fresh tumens and personal guard Murza Idegei brought their power to the flanks of the Russian-Lithuanian army, crushing everything in their path and going to the rear of the allied army. Confusion arose in its ranks, and Vitovt's troops began to retreat, and after the heavily armed cavalry of the Tatars struck, the ranks of the retreating were swept away and indiscriminate flight began. Now, no one thought about resistance. The remnants of the allied army, trying to save their lives, threw carts, weaponwounded. One of the first to escape was Prince Vitovt and Khan Toktamysh. It was a complete rout.



Almost the entire Russian-Lithuanian army was killed in battle or during flight. The Russian chronicle tells with bitterness that seventy-four princes died, “and other commanders and great boyars, Christians, and Lithuania, and Russia, and Lyakhs, and many Germans killed - who can count?” In this bloody battle, the whole color of Russian died - Lithuanian princes who helped Vitovt to create the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Russian, and earlier fought under the banner of Dmitry Donskoy.

Vitovt hastened to conclude a peace treaty with Idegei, which prescribed the expulsion of Tokhtamysh from Lithuania, the payment by Kiev, Lutsk, and also the whole of southern Russia of a huge indemnity. After this defeat, the Lithuanian prince could no longer claim to be the unifier of Russia under the wing of Lithuania and pursue an active policy. Once again, the Tatar shield saved the Russian principalities from the Lithuanian-Polish sword.



Now that Idegei reached the pinnacle of power, he tried to revive the great empire, the Golden Horde. As a talented military leader and politician, the Ulug Karachibek Idegei achieved success both in domestic and foreign policy, among which was the defeat of the descendants of Aksak-Timur in 1405.
Author:
Photos used:
https://vk.com/club22958272
52 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. kalibr
    kalibr 24 October 2015 07: 42 New
    +3
    At M.V. Gorelika was a very good article on this topic in the magazine "Zeughgauz" ...
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 24 October 2015 07: 44 New
    +16
    The defeat of Vytautas in the battle of Vorskla in 1399 had significant consequences for eastern Europe. Having weakened, although temporarily, the great principality of Lithuania, it inflicted a blow on Vytautas’s plans for Northern and Eastern Russia and delayed the expansion of its borders on this side. In Moscow, not without secret pleasure, they looked at the fierce struggle of their two main enemies: the Horde and Lithuania. The campaign undertaken by Vitovt had the character of a cross. Pope Boniface IX sent a special bulla to the clergy of Poland and Lithuania to preach a crusade against the Horde and gave permission from all sins to his participants.
  3. kingoff
    kingoff 24 October 2015 08: 34 New
    +16
    The emblem of the Golden Horde is very similar to the emblem of one modern country ...
    1. shershen
      shershen 25 October 2015 00: 42 New
      +2
      Naturally, two-headed eagle.
      So we have not the Byzantine emblem, but the Tatar-Mongol? What a news.
      1. Morrrow
        Morrrow 26 October 2015 12: 40 New
        +2
        Not simular. There is some chicken painted. We have an East Roman coat of arms.
  4. cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 24 October 2015 09: 30 New
    +6
    Very similar to the defeat of the Romans by the ganibal at Cannes
  5. DesToeR
    DesToeR 24 October 2015 09: 32 New
    +2
    Once again, the Tatar shield saved the Russian principalities from the Lithuanian-Polish sword.

    A very interesting conclusion - especially the word "saved." He saved by putting “seventy-four princes,” and many other governors and great boyars, and Christians, and Lithuania, and Russia, and Poles, and Germans, were killed many - who can count? ” Saved some Slavs from unification by other Slavs? After all, if I understood the author correctly, then the Golden Horde is the Mongols and the Tatars.
    12 of August 1399 of the year went down in history as the date of the most terrible and bloody battle of the Middle Ages.

    Please provide approximate figures of the warring parties. Until now, he believed that the battle of Grunwald in 1410 was the most bloody.
    1. insafufa
      insafufa 24 October 2015 09: 59 New
      +3
      Horseradish radish is not sweeter
      Quote: DesToeR

      12 of August 1399 of the year went down in history as the date of the most terrible and bloody battle of the Middle Ages.

      Please provide approximate figures of the warring parties. Until now, he believed that the battle of Grunwald in 1410 was the most bloody.


      And here and there, the Soviets of Toron downplayed their losses and exaggerated strangers

      What the hell difference is how bloody the battle was and both Tatars and Russians, Poles and Lithuanians died
    2. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 24 October 2015 20: 11 New
      +10
      Quote: DesToeR
      Saved some Slavs from unification by other Slavs?


      Poles and Lithuanians are friends? do not make me laugh. laughing except for the European type of face, nothing in common smile

      PySy. I think the Horde were more faithful, and now the Mongol will support the Russians more than, for example, the Bulgarian.
      1. shershen
        shershen 25 October 2015 00: 43 New
        +3
        I agree, Asia is closer to us both genetically and mentally than this Europe.
  6. Alex
    Alex 24 October 2015 10: 23 New
    +6
    Prince Vitovt and Khan Toktamysh were among the first to flee.
    I remember that under Grunwald, too, Vitovt retreated. Does he have such a plan that is so unlucky or lack of stamina?

    PS The picture of the battle is not mirrored by chance? And about all the warriors somehow strangely became lefties.
    1. visitork67
      visitork67 24 October 2015 20: 59 New
      +4
      Definitely mirrored. Otherwise, it would be a battle of left-handed people, and not a battle in Vorskla. ;-)))))
      1. Morrrow
        Morrrow 26 October 2015 12: 42 New
        +2
        Those. Is Tajikistan closer to us than Poland? Can I have arguments? If I’m a Slav and Uzbek and Tator you won’t make me!
  7. Antipossevino
    Antipossevino 24 October 2015 10: 33 New
    +7
    By the way, at first about PLAGIATE, which was allowed when writing this article: as it has now been taught by some "professional historians", especially Tatar ones, who, setting out their pro-Western "scientific version", mix information from books of independent historian G.R. Yenikeyev, here, too, there was plagiarism - theft of someone else’s work, when "professional historians" quote from someone else’s work and don’t mention the author, that is, they attribute to themselves someone else’s work.
    For example, the phrase of this article: “the South Chinese ambassador Menghung in his Notes on the Mongol Tatars, discovered and translated by Russian academician V. P. Vasiliev, left the following description of the banner of the First All-Tatar Tsar, chosen by his people:
    “As a sign of Genghis’s presence, a large banner is opened, everything is white: besides this there are no other banners and banners ... Genghis uses only one white banner with 9 tails: in the middle of it is a black moon: it opens when it goes on a campaign. They say that besides him, only some commanders-in-chief have one banner each. ” This phrase is copied from the book of G.R. Enikeeva "Following the Trail of the Black Legend" (Moscow, Medina Publishing House, 2009). From there, the image of the Banner of the Tatars, which was from the very beginning the main banner of the Supreme Headquarters of the Great Horde, founded by Chyngyz Khan. By the way, in the book “In the footsteps of a black legend” this banner was cited for the first time. Specifically, the image of the Banner of the Tatars given in this article is the result of the work of one of the founders of the group "Chiңgyz Khan һәm Tatatarlar [Ψ] Chingiz Khan and Tatars": https://vk.com/club22958272 It was published for the first time in this group, this is an improved version images of the Banner of the Tatars, which was published in the book "Following the Trail of the Black Legend", or rather, on the cover of this book: http://tartareurasia.ucoz.com/publ/knigi_enikeeva_gr/kniga_quotpo_sledam_chjorno
    j_legendyquot / prodolzhenie / 6-1-0-36
  8. Antipossevino
    Antipossevino 24 October 2015 10: 35 New
    +7
    It should also be said that this article is built on the whole fabrication of pro-Western historians glorifying the rebellious murzu (Prince) Idegei, essentially a traitor to the Great Horde, who organized the bloody civil war in the Golden Horde. Moreover, with the involvement of "foreign" helpers themselves, aggressors in Russia and the Golden Horde.
    By the way, the legitimate great khan of Toktamysh, elected according to the "customs of the Tatars" (according to the Great Yaz Chyngyz-khan), as is customary among the "professionalist historians" -wests, was slandered in this article.
    Moreover, according to information from Tatar historical sources hidden and hidden by official officials (including Tatar), including information from the Idegei dastan, the ancient Tatar Banner (the banner of Chyngyz Khan) was precisely from Khan Toktamysh and his supporters, faithful The Horde Idea of ​​Chyngyz Khan. And Idegei rallied the opponents of the Horde around him, moreover, hoping that “West and East would help them” in the war against their own Homeland. The beginning of this story with Idegei "Tatar sources connect with the execution of father Idedey, who was sentenced by the Supreme Court of the Horde for treason to death.
    For example, "... in the Tatar historical dastan (poem)" Idehei "dastan" Idehei "describes an internecine war between supporters of the khan of the Golden Horde Toktamysh and the rebellious murza (bi) of Idegei. According to the plot of the legend Idegebi-avenging revenge for his executed back in his childhood father, declared war on the rightful khan Toktamysh, rejecting the offer of peace on his part.
    Moreover, Idegei-bi facilitated the invasion of the famous conqueror Aksak-Timur “damned by the Tatars” (A.-Z. Validi) into the Tatars. And Idegei fought on the side of Timur against Toktamysh Khan. But it turned out, alas, that he fought against his own people, although he found many supporters. This is the deepest tragedy of Idegei’s fate, which is transmitted by the author of the dastan with tremendous poetic mastery.
    The dastan also shows well that, for the most part, the Tatars of the Golden Horde took the side of Toktamysh Khan. His army consisted of representatives of the “entire breed of Chyngyz Khan”, from the clans of Kypchak, Argyn, Tumen and many others. At the cost of huge losses, the invasion of Aksak-Timur was repelled. As a result of the invasion and civil strife, many cities of the Golden Horde were destroyed, innumerable disasters were caused to the nations of the power. But the Golden Horde - the "Northern Power of the Tatars" - nevertheless resisted, did not cease to exist, contrary to the claims of Western historians.
    Later, the great khan Ulug Muhammad, the nephew of Toktamysh Khan, restored the unity of the Golden Horde and transferred its capital to Kazan in 1438 ... "(from the book" Heritage of the Tatars "- Moscow, Algorithm, 2015). Authors G. Enikeev, S. Kitabchy): http://tartareurasia.ucoz.com/publ/knigi_enikeeva_gr/quot_velikaja_orda_druzja_v

    ragi_i_nasledniki_quot / novoe_izdanie_knigi_nasledie_tatar_v_dopolnennom_variante

    _2015_g/11-1-0-74
    1. Morrrow
      Morrrow 26 October 2015 12: 45 New
      +2
      I see no reason to glorify the Horde. The horde destroyed Russia for many years. Dozens of large cities disappeared, hundreds of thousands of inhabitants were cut off by Batu. You still about the Third Reich let a tear.
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. Antipossevino
    Antipossevino 24 October 2015 11: 03 New
    +7
    By the way, it is not clear why the author cited a very poor-quality image (bad copy?) Of the Golden Horde coin as the “coat of arms of the Golden Horde” - there are very high-quality images of this symbol on coins of both the Golden Horde and later times (see in the book " The Great Horde? Enemies, Friends, and Heirs "- Moscow, Algorithm, 2011, and Heritage of the Tatars (Moscow, Algorithm, 2015, authors G. Enikeev and S. Kitabchy).

    But let’s explain with regard to the coat of arms where this fact was written off from (moreover, the author of the article again did not mention whose discovery he attributed):

    "Where did the magnificent bird come from on the Russian coat of arms

    ... We continue the study of the period of the Moscow kingdom in the history of our Fatherland from the well-known symbol, the double-headed eagle, which even now, being the state emblem of Russia, is depicted on the relevant state documents, as well as on paper banknotes and coins.

    First, let's start with the little-known about this symbol: remember the familiar to us in part I of this work, but until recently quite unknown to a wide audience of history buffs, and professional historians, Tatar historical source "Daftar Chyngyz nama" ("Chyngyz khan Daftare ”) 90, which tells about the origin and life of Chyngyz Khan [34].

    In accordance with the information of the indicated Tatar historical source, the double-headed eagle was a tamga, that is, the coat of arms of the genus (clan) of Chyngyz Khan [34; 44, p. eighteen].

    The ancient Tatar legend, as we see, says that our two-headed eagle was the emblem of the "ulus in which Chyngyz Khan was born" since ancient times, and we also know that this ulus and the people who owned the Chyngyz Khan ulus, that is, generations, who were unanimous with this ulus, had one common ethnic name and self-name: “nothing but the Tatars” [14, p. 159; 36].

    The double-headed eagle is called in Tatar Ikebash Karakosh ("Two-headed Eagle") [34; 44], or Sәmrүg kosh (“Samrug bird”), while we will know that the first name is more ancient and originally Tatar.
    The double-headed eagle began to be depicted on the coins of the Mongol Power - Mongol Ulus (translated from the startarian "Eternal Power" - from the moment of its occurrence, from the very beginning of the XIII century. Coins with a two-headed eagle and inscriptions on them in the Tatar language, printed with the "Uyghur letter" (Tatar letter) and even Arabic graphics, were minted throughout the territory of the State of Tatars - from Iran to Northern China, including, of course, the territories of modern Russia and Central Asia [61; 95, p. 32] (see above, part I).
    The symbols depicted on coins at all times belonged to state symbols and meant that the issuance of coins and their circulation in this territory and all related relations are completely under the protection and control of this state. For example, the Lithuanian prince Vitovt, who at the end of the 31th – beginning of the 305th centuries tried to seize the Russian and Horde territories (“all Russia” - L. N. Gumilyov), demanded from the Tatar khan Timur Kutlug that it was he who was depicted on the Golden Horde coins, then there is a Lithuanian prince, coat of arms [103, p. 5; XNUMX, p. XNUMX]..."

    (continued in my next post)
    1. Morrrow
      Morrrow 26 October 2015 12: 48 New
      +2
      EEE ?? Read when Constantinople was founded. Your Mongols were monkeys then.
  11. Alekst
    Alekst 24 October 2015 11: 05 New
    +6
    Edigheus was a protege of Timur Khromoi, clearly not a friend of Muscovite Russia, Vitovt was a protege of the Catholic West, everything is clearly not a friend, the fact that Russian princes were on his side is also not surprising, Lithuania captured the Russian principalities and naturally the vassal princes sent their troops to the army Lithuania, Khan Tokhtamysh who betrayed the traditional, at that time, alliance of Russia and the Horde, is also not a friend, which is why they monitored the clash of enemies in Moscow and later defeated the winners.
    1. Antipossevino
      Antipossevino 24 October 2015 11: 11 New
      +2
      Nuuu, the sir was bent - about Khan Toktamysh, for example - it was the authors of the pro-Western "scientific history" who misled you ... Read the true story, not the fabrications of ideologists, the links are in my messages.
      1. Alekst
        Alekst 24 October 2015 14: 24 New
        +3
        Quote: Antipossevino
        Nuuu, the sir was bent - about Khan Toktamysh, for example - it was the authors of the pro-Western "scientific history" who misled you ... Read the true story, not the fabrications of ideologists, the links are in my messages.

        Well, it’s not I who turned down, but Gumilyov, it’s hard to blame him for the pro-Western interpretation of “scientific history”, or for you, like some people on this site, something that does not coincide with your view means either pro-Western views or false liberal theories ?))
        1. Antipossevino
          Antipossevino 24 October 2015 16: 56 New
          +2
          Why are you so, sir? It’s just that my views and point of view are based on facts, on the analysis and comparison of many information - for example, in G.R. Enikeeva perfectly considered and analyzed exactly the facts, in comparison with the circumstances and events of a particular period, in interconnection, and the conclusions are logically substantiated. Everything is stated clearly and clearly, and it’s easy to follow his thoughts and check everything according to the sources.

          As for Lev Nikolayevich - we will not forget what time he worked. L. N. Gumilev. He was able to put a lot of truth into print, no doubt. But often L.N. Gumilev was forced to repeat much of the pro-Western and pro-Chinese "scientific history" so that his works would allow printing in partocratic times.
          Also a lot of L.N. Gumilev was forced to underestimate, wrote a lot allegorically - especially regarding the history of the Tatars. About L.N. Gumilev and his works are very well written in the books of G.R. Enikeev "Crown of the Horde Empire" and "In the footsteps of a black legend." Many things are clarified there, it becomes clear why, after the publication of the book, L.N. Gumilev's "In search of a fictional kingdom" (1970) began his almost 20-year-old disgrace.

          About the fact that Idegei was a protege of Timur the Lame - you, in principle, write correctly. Verney, Idegei supported Lame during his campaigns in the Golden Horde and Russia. But you don’t seem to know that Lame himself was a vassal of the Chinese emperor Hong-Wu - this is the Minsk dynasty, which came to power in China after the overthrow of the Horde in those parts as a result of almost 50 years of war - about this war in books " Crown of the Horde Empire "and" In the footsteps of a black legend "(G. Enikeev) is very well written.
          As for Vytautas, you, in principle, are also right ...

          But about Khan Toktamysh - alas and ah. This is understandable - against him, as well as against many true Horde kings, all the power of pro-Chinese (including "Muslim") and pro-Western "scientific history" is directed - the propaganda of the enemies of our Ancestors. Today, “professionalists” from one “scientific work” to another rewrite this propaganda, and “intellectuals” and other ideological workers repeat it after them.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Morrrow
      Morrrow 26 October 2015 12: 48 New
      0
      And what is the union of the Horde and Russia? Is it Batu’s campaigns against Russia and the Russian genocide?
      1. Alekst
        Alekst 31 October 2015 14: 37 New
        +1
        this is for you to Alexander Nevsky with similar questions.
  12. Antipossevino
    Antipossevino 24 October 2015 11: 06 New
    +2
    "... The double-headed eagle as the most enduringly used symbol of the Great Horde is depicted constantly on the coins of Ulus Juchi and Russia, for example, on coins issued both under the Batu, Berke and Tokt khans (XIII century), and under the Nogai, Uzbek, and Khan khans Janibeke, Toktamysh (XIV century) [44]. You can find the image of a two-headed eagle on the coins of the Golden Horde and later, up to and including the period of the Moscow kingdom [66, pp. 141 – 145].
    In the 1490 year, under Ivan III, the double-headed eagle becomes the officially established emblem of the Moscow kingdom - and accordingly of Russia [95, p. 32].

    But there is a “universally recognized” opinion that the two-headed eagle has nothing to do with the “Tatar region” - this is, they say, a primordially Orthodox sign from Byzantium. Recall, however, that Byzantium in 1204 was destroyed by the crusaders as a state and ceased to exist. Byzantium revived only in the 1260 year, with the help of the Tatars-Hordes, Ulus Juchi - the great khan of the State Mongol Guyuk “invited priests from Sham (Syria), Rum (Byzantium), Osov and Russia and proclaimed a program acceptable to the Orthodox - a campaign for Catholic Europe ”[31, p. 374].
    And only after the restoration of Orthodox Byzantium as a satellite of the Golden Horde, in the second half of the XIV century, a double-headed eagle appears in Byzantium - on coins and on other attributes of this state formation.

    Let us explain why the symbol of the Great Horde was depicted on coins and seals of Byzantium (Ruma): this country was part of the Mongol Power and was constantly under the auspices of the khans of Ulus Jochi, “Tatar kings of the Northern lands” [93, p. 441]. For example, the bishop of Byzantium
    he constantly carried out the instructions of the Khan of the Golden Horde, Berke and rendered him considerable assistance in foreign affairs, being an ally of the descendants and followers of Chyngyz
    Khan [93, p. 236]. And another religion of the ally did not bother anyone - neither the Muslim Tatars, nor the Orthodox Russians and Greeks: “Since the sons of Genghis Khan became
    rule this land ... continually between them, the renewal of agreements and the conclusion of friendship, the formation of alliances between them and the giving of gifts from
    the king of Rum (Byzantine - G. E.) ”[93, p. 236].

    So, as you can see, our two-headed eagle is the most “local”, Eurasian work of state symbolism. Double-headed eagle appeared as a symbol
    for the first time it was in the state founded by the Tatars-Hordes. This state was transformed by the Tatars-Hordes, together with “Russians, Hungarians and others who joined them
    northern peoples, "into a power that occupies almost the entire inhabited territory of Eurasia [36] ..."


    From the book: "The Legacy of the Tatars", Moscow, "Algorithm", 2015, authors G. Enikeev, S. Kitabchy).
    1. Lenivets
      Lenivets 24 October 2015 12: 18 New
      +5
      "So, as we see, our two-headed eagle is the most “local”, Eurasian work of state symbols. Double-headed eagle appeared as a symbol
      for the first time in the state founded by the Tatars-Horde. "

      The Sumerians and the Hittites were forgotten, and they used it several thousand years earlier. wink
      1. Antipossevino
        Antipossevino 24 October 2015 12: 26 New
        -4
        However, the "Sumerians-Hittites" - in this case, we are talking about the time period of the XIII-XIV centuries. and further, sir. We are talking about the fact that Westerners - "professional historians" argue that as a state symbol "From Byzantium the Two-Headed Eagle in Russia," and G.R. Yenikeyev is proved to be from us, from the Great Horde. The Byzantines are definitely not from the "Sumerian Hittites", but from us.

        And did the Sumerian Hittites have it? Yes, as a symbol of the state? And who are these Sumerian Hittites? The next chernukha of writers of a course of history "without Russians and Tatars" ?. Independent historians are already dealing with this, may God help them!
        1. Morrrow
          Morrrow 26 October 2015 12: 51 New
          +1
          If you want to be a Tatra, then be. do not need Slavs to impose Tatarism !!!! You still have not answered for Batu’s campaigns !!
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. tomket
        tomket 24 October 2015 21: 27 New
        +2
        Quote: Lenivets
        The Sumerians and the Hittites were forgotten, and they used it a few thousand years earlier.

        The Sumerians with the Hittites were also Horde and, together with the great Ukrainians, dug the Black Sea)))
        1. Glot
          Glot 24 October 2015 22: 40 New
          0
          The Sumerians with the Hittites were also Horde and, together with the great Ukrainians, dug the Black Sea)))


          Right! )) And also for one and the Aegean with the Mediterranean. What is trifling then. )))
        2. shershen
          shershen 25 October 2015 00: 56 New
          +1
          We are not talking about psychiatry, but about our history.
          1. Morrrow
            Morrrow 26 October 2015 12: 52 New
            +1
            Our history suggests that the Tatars slaughtered 50% of the population of Russia.
    2. Glot
      Glot 24 October 2015 22: 35 New
      0
      "... The double-headed eagle as the most enduringly used symbol of the Great Horde is depicted constantly on the coins of Ulus Juchi and Russia, for example, on coins issued both under the Batu, Berke and Tokt khans (XIII century), and under the Nogai, Uzbek, and Khan khans Janibeke, Toktamysh (XIV century) [44]. You can find the image of a two-headed eagle on the coins of the Golden Horde and later, up to and including the period of the Moscow kingdom [66, pp. 141 – 145].
      In the 1490 year, under Ivan III, the double-headed eagle becomes the officially established emblem of the Moscow kingdom - and accordingly of Russia [95, p. 32].


      No, infa is not entirely accurate. More precisely, not at all accurate.
      Eagles, both two-headed and ordinary with one head, really come across on the coins of the Golden Horde. The silver was minted at the Bulgar of the 13th century, and the copper was minted at the Sarai al-Jadila in the 14th century (it was the mint of Dzhanibek), but we are not talking about mass character and constancy. Caught but not always.
      You can believe me, since I missed hundreds of different coins of the Horde through my hands.
      I’ve been busy with pokapushki for a while, you know, and there were lifts, and the social circle corresponded.
      Plus, you can turn to the works of Fedorov-Davydov, Sagdeeva and others, to the catalogs. And see the percentage of occurrence of this symbol on the coins of the Golden Horde.
      The network has these works and catalogs. You can find it. I already mentioned a couple below, XENO, WORLDWIDE.
      Regarding the coins of Russia, the two-headed eagle appears indeed on some types of coins of Ivan III and coins of the Tver prince Mikhail Borisovich.
      In Ivan III, this is only a couple of types, and in Tveryak it is one at all. If Ivan’s money comes with an eagle, then Tverskoye is a pretty decent rarity. You can believe it.
      The eagle appears fragmentarily, and after that we will not see the two-headed horde on Russian coins until the 18th century.
      Most likely, this appearance was associated with the marriage of Ivan to the Byzantine Sophia Paleolog. And this eagle precisely has Byzantine roots and not the Horde. Although, of course, he was a sign of Russia from the coins of the Horde, koi circulated on the territory until the appearance of Russian money. But the Horde eagle and the Byzantine separates a decent time interval. And even before Ivan and Mikhail of Tver this symbol did not appear on Russian coins, which also does not play a good part about the version of his coming from the Horde. But the fact that he appears fragmentary during the twinning with the house of Paleologists plays on the Byzantine trail.
      1. alebor
        alebor 26 October 2015 12: 00 New
        -1
        The history of the Russian double-headed eagle is dark. There is another version that he was borrowed by Ivan III from the German emperor, in order to demonstrate that the dignity of the Sovereign of All Russia is equal to the imperial ...
        It is likely that we will never be able to say exactly where Russia got this coat of arms, since Ivan III died long ago and ask where he got it from no one. wink
      2. The comment was deleted.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. Roman 11
    Roman 11 24 October 2015 13: 51 New
    0
    Interestingly, is a full set of Golden Horde coins stored somewhere?
    1. Antipossevino
      Antipossevino 24 October 2015 17: 21 New
      +1
      hardly - no one was doing this, as far as I know. Although the "bulk" a lot of different museums and private collections. By the Volga and Ural regions they still find ...
      1. Glot
        Glot 24 October 2015 22: 12 New
        +1
        hardly - no one was doing this, as far as I know. Although the "bulk" a lot of different museums and private collections. By the Volga and Ural regions they still find ...


        I think you just don’t know.
        You can recall at least the 19th-century catalog of Fren on the coins of the Golden Horde. The works of Fedorov-Davydov, Sagdeeva, Goncharov and many others. You can go to network resources / catalogs of XENO or RASMIR (these are just two, on a vskidka) where there is something to see and talk with specialists on minting the Golden Horde of coins.
        These coins are also sold in a multitude. They really get a lot of them every season and throw them on the market.
        So they have been doing this business for a very long time and quite densely.
        1. Antipossevino
          Antipossevino 24 October 2015 22: 23 New
          +1
          Why, it’s known, and much more that you don’t know yet. But in this case it was precisely about the complete set of Golden Horde coins - secondly, the full history of the Horde is still hidden from us, most of it. Regarding the monetary system of the Great Horde - for example, until what period did the Horde money go on the territory of Eurasia (including modern Russia), I advise you to read in the book “The Great Horde: friends, enemies and heirs” (Moscow, “Algorithm”, 2011 (author G.R. Enikeev). There are just images of Horde coins, including those having circulation until the XNUMXth century.
          1. Glot
            Glot 24 October 2015 22: 59 New
            +2
            Why, it’s known, and much more that you don’t know yet.


            I do not argue, but you are not giving accurate information.
            And about the "full set" do not bother, just did not know. Since the whole topic is cited only by two authors, some Enikeev and Kitabcha. It follows that you read only these authors on the Horde theme. And the theme of the Horde, it is quite extensive, and the numismatics in it are a great help.
            And since you do not know who else wrote anything about the Horde, did not know that there are catalogs on them, sailed in the question about the eagle on coins, then I very much doubt that you can believe your words. I also doubt that you can believe the authors quoted by you. Since you did not receive this information from them.
            As for the circulation of Horde coins up to the 18th century, you are also very mistaken.
            If with regards to the territory of Russia-Russia, then there from the 14th to the 18th century the monetary system itself has changed more than once. Read Fedorov-Davydov, Sagdeeva, if you want to be in the subject.
            Well, something like that, briefly. Although it could have been deployed, it will be an entire article about how the Horde coins were supplanted from Russia. The comment will not go. smile
    2. The comment was deleted.
  15. Jääkorppi
    Jääkorppi 24 October 2015 14: 16 New
    +1
    On the one hand, ON, Rurikovich, it seems, as the heirs of Kievan Rus, on the other hand the Golden Horde !! But these are the enemies of North-Eastern Russia and North-Western Russia, ancient Gardarika, the Moscow state, the true heir and the successors of Orthodox Holy Russia! If it were not for this battle, with a high probability, we would now speak Polish and be Catholics!
    1. Antipossevino
      Antipossevino 24 October 2015 17: 11 New
      0
      As A. Prozorov quite correctly put it, the main thesis of the pro-Western "science-history" is: "Tatars and Russians to each other - enemies, enemies, enemies ...".

      Yeah, "science-history" was composed for that, so that the owners of the writers of this "science" could appoint ENEMIES and "friends" to us.

      But the truth is that if it were not for the Great Horde and the Horde Brotherhood of Russians and Tatars, then the plans "Drang nach osten“they would have come true in the XIII-XIV centuries. Or a little later. But they would not have come true (yet) - for“ the Truth is strength, brother ... ”. "Heritage of the Tatars" (authors G. Enikeev and S. Kitabchy).
      1. tomket
        tomket 24 October 2015 21: 29 New
        -2
        Quote: Antipossevino
        Horde and Horde Brotherhood of Russians and Tatars,

        So how we Tatars fraternized on the Kulikovo field ....
        1. Antipossevino
          Antipossevino 24 October 2015 22: 10 New
          0
          Well, about what actually happened on the Kulikovo field, and exactly how and why they lied to us "about the war between the Russians and the Tatars" (between D. Donskoy and the Great Horde), it is also found out - read in the book "The Legacy of the Tatars" "(Moscow, Algorithm Publishing House, 2015), authors G. Enikeev, S. Kitabchy) - this book most readily exposes the exposure of the pro-Western myth of how" the Russians fought the Tatars. " More details are in the book “Following the Trail of the Black Legend” (author G. Enikeev).
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. Antipossevino
          Antipossevino 24 October 2015 22: 16 New
          0
          That’s yes, a coolly promoted myth - “The Kulikovo battle between Russians and Tatars”. But the main thesis of this myth (which makes this story a myth) - about who actually confronted in fact in that battle - does not stand the test of facts.
        5. Glot
          Glot 24 October 2015 22: 44 New
          0
          So how we Tatars fraternized on the Kulikovo field ....


          Yes, with the next "little brothers" to the blood, "hugged fraternally." ))))
      2. alebor
        alebor 26 October 2015 12: 09 New
        0
        In the Middle Ages, religion was the main marker of "friend or foe" for people and states. And about any "brotherhood" of the Orthodox with representatives of other faiths (even Christian), and even more so with Muslims, there was no question.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Morrrow
        Morrrow 26 October 2015 12: 56 New
        0
        Where was this fraternity during the Batu campaigns ??????
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Morrrow
      Morrrow 26 October 2015 12: 55 New
      -1
      If not for the Tatars, then no one would have divided Russia. You still say that Batu’s campaigns were a blessing.
  16. colotun
    colotun 25 October 2015 01: 12 New
    +1
    The fourth century AD - Attila conquers Western Europe. Atilla's banners depict an equilateral cross and a golden double-headed eagle. The twelfth century AD - Genghis Khan and Batu conquer Western Europe. The historical emblem of the Golden Horde is a golden double-headed eagle (only without three crowns). The Russian Empire was created from the East, and not from the West. What did the specific Russian princes do during the period of feudal fragmentation in Russia (11-12 centuries)? They slaughtered each other in the struggle for power, ruthlessly ruining the neighboring lands. When the Mongol-Tatars united them, they forbade them to fight with each other, told them: - "You are now one country, one people." And after several generations, Russian people in Central Russia ceased to regard their neighbors as enemies. Catholic prayer ends with the word OMEN, Orthodox prayer ends with the word AMEN, Muslim prayer ends with the word EMEN. There is also the famous Indian Buddhist mantra OM-MAN. And there is the Turkic word AMAN = have mercy and mercy. And these are not the only traces of the Turkic origin of the Christian faith. And there was also a great medieval empire that conquered including China (QIN dynasty = Golden Dynasty) and India (Great Mughals). It is interesting that approximately within the borders of the former Soviet Union there were five empires: - the first empire was at Attila (4-5 century AD), the second empire was at Genghis Khan (11-12 century AD), the third empire was the Romanovs, the fourth empire is the Soviet Union and the fifth empire is the Russian Federation now. The Russian nation came from the merger of three different nations - Slavs, Turks (including Tatars) and Finno-Ugrians. And for one and a half thousand years on the territory of our great united country people of different nationalities live, as one people.
    1. Morrrow
      Morrrow 26 October 2015 12: 58 New
      -1
      Everything is clear with you, Tatar. Those. Batu’s campaign and the destruction of TENS of large cities is a GOOD ???? MAYBE AND HITLER-this is the Liberator from communism? In the Horde itself, the khans did not cut each other ???
    2. Morrrow
      Morrrow 26 October 2015 13: 05 New
      -2
      Do not carry nonsense. The Russians were never Tatars, not genetically, neither mentally, nor religiously. Even the French are much closer to us than the Tatars. Pushkin was raised by the French, like many others. In Russian, French words are much larger Tatar. The French were our allies in WWI and Seven Years.
  17. Alekst
    Alekst 25 October 2015 07: 14 New
    0
    Quote: Antipossevino
    Why are you so, sir? It’s just that my views and point of view are based on facts, on the analysis and comparison of many information - for example, in G.R. Enikeeva perfectly considered and analyzed exactly the facts, in comparison with the circumstances and events of a particular period, in interconnection, and the conclusions are logically substantiated. Everything is stated clearly and clearly, and it’s easy to follow his thoughts and check everything according to the sources.

    As for Lev Nikolayevich - we will not forget what time he worked. L. N. Gumilev. He was able to put a lot of truth into print, no doubt. But often L.N. Gumilev was forced to repeat much of the pro-Western and pro-Chinese "scientific history" so that his works would allow printing in partocratic times.
    Also a lot of L.N. Gumilev was forced to underestimate, wrote a lot allegorically - especially regarding the history of the Tatars. About L.N. Gumilev and his works are very well written in the books of G.R. Enikeev "Crown of the Horde Empire" and "In the footsteps of a black legend." Many things are clarified there, it becomes clear why, after the publication of the book, L.N. Gumilev's "In search of a fictional kingdom" (1970) began his almost 20-year-old disgrace.

    About the fact that Idegei was a protege of Timur the Lame - you, in principle, write correctly. Verney, Idegei supported Lame during his campaigns in the Golden Horde and Russia. But you don’t seem to know that Lame himself was a vassal of the Chinese emperor Hong-Wu - this is the Minsk dynasty, which came to power in China after the overthrow of the Horde in those parts as a result of almost 50 years of war - about this war in books " Crown of the Horde Empire "and" In the footsteps of a black legend "(G. Enikeev) is very well written.
    As for Vytautas, you, in principle, are also right ...

    But about Khan Toktamysh - alas and ah. This is understandable - against him, as well as against many true Horde kings, all the power of pro-Chinese (including "Muslim") and pro-Western "scientific history" is directed - the propaganda of the enemies of our Ancestors. Today, “professionalists” from one “scientific work” to another rewrite this propaganda, and “intellectuals” and other ideological workers repeat it after them.

    Well, probably you should first read G. Enikeev.
  18. DesToeR
    DesToeR 25 October 2015 08: 19 New
    +1
    Quote: shershen
    Poles and Lithuanians are friends? do not make me laugh. except for the European type of face, nothing in common

    PySy. I think the Horde were more faithful, and now the Mongol will support the Russians more than, for example, the Bulgarian.

    That's exactly what NOW. And then everything was different. If I remember correctly, Vytautas was a pagan! Those. believed in our pantheon. Then, for the sake of politics, he adopted Catholicism. Then, again returned to paganism. Those. one cannot speak of any “recoding” at that time. All these were Russian princes, Slavic blood. And the Horde, if we accept it in its “classical” form, was alien to the Russian at the genetic level. But this is if we consider the Horde as Mongols and Tatars.
    1. Morrrow
      Morrrow 26 October 2015 13: 00 New
      0
      Yes, these comrades have Stockholm syndrome. They love to read how the Tatars carved out Russian cities and villages, leaving ashes and piles of bodies. Let them honor the destruction of Ryazan, Vladimir, Kiev, Kozelsk.