The heroism of the Syrian tankers can not compensate for the fatal flaws of the T-55 and T-62 tanks

The Syrian army continues to develop the offensive in various directions. A big problem for fighters of government troops is the great saturation of the enemy’s defense with modern anti-tank weapons. We are talking about such anti-tank systems as TOW-2A. In addition, due to the shortage of modern armored vehicles, the army is forced to use outdated attacks Tanks T-55 and T-62.

T-62 tanks are actively involved in the Syrian civil war.

TOW-2A ATGMs are delivered to terrorists through Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and, of course, the United States is the main champion of democracy all over the world. By the way, recently the Arabian sponsors quickly transferred the so-called "Free Syrian Army" 500 new missiles, which, according to some sources, began to spread to various terrorist groups.

These tanks are outdated by the beginning of the 80's

The TOW-2A is equipped with a tandem warhead that allows you to destroy fairly modern tanks equipped with dynamic protection, not to mention the T-50 and T-55 developed in 62-ies and, for example, , the frontal armor of the turret is only 62 mm, and the penetrability of TOW-211A is 2-850 mm).

Sandbags are not the best protection against modern ATGM

Since the participation of T-62, starting with 1973, more than one military conflict has not done. Even then it turned out that these tanks are very vulnerable, but the Syrians simply did not have the money to carry out modernization. In addition, they were preparing for war with Israel, and, succumbing to the peculiar fashion that existed then, tried to implement missile programs, and armored vehicles faded into the background. No one could have imagined that the situation would be blown up from the inside, and a long-standing civil war would flare up.

Such a field upgrade can protect only from older types of jet grenades.

According to military experts, to successfully resolve the existing situation, the Syrians need to establish a successful interaction of the advancing tank and infantry units with artillery, conduct reconnaissance more thoroughly, and make more active use of snipers armed with large-caliber weapons. Of course, outdated armored vehicles with the help of Russia should be replaced by a more modern one. Because the undoubted heroism of the Syrian warriors cannot fully replace the fatal flaws of the long-obsolete technology and miscalculations in its application.

Comments

[bolat19640303]

Not a single modern tank can resist the ATGM, the massive use of RPGs in urban conditions (especially). T-55,62 as an infantry fire support vehicle in conditions of dense combat support is quite suitable. The heroism of the tankers is not to go ahead - let the aircraft, artillery, and infantry clear first. Then support the further infantry actions with fire.
It's just that the army has no other cars.

[kayman4]

The author you write headlines for more careful, what fatal flaws do you burn comparing the technology of the 50-60s with ATGM modifications 80s?

[Poppy]

yes, it would be more correct: ... fatal obsolescence ...

[Angro Magno]

Indeed, the title is marvelous. I didn’t expect anything, such as the spontaneous combustion of tanks or the collapse of the tower. And the fact that armor is rather weak today is known to all who are more or less versed in technology.

[Aqela]

What? Why not compare the combat capabilities of the SM-1, T-28, or the "Freedom Fighter Comrade Lenin" with the T-62 or Leopard-2?

[samoletil18]

I see no reason to put a minus, but nothing is compared here. And the Syrians use the old people competently enough, as evidenced by the numerous releases on TV and on the net.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: bolat19640303

Against ATGM, mass use of RPGs in urban settings (especially) not a single modern tank can stand it.

Pasha - "Mercedes" in Grozny killed 62 tanks and xnumx to the people. So that the earth is glassy to him! Didn’t he know about this? Or did he expect what would be like in Moscow in 1500? Do democratic horses jump and steal and part with the world? With a bad command (or in the absence of it, as in Grozny), any tank in the city is a box with a motor. Target.

General L.Ya. Rokhlin -

The plan of operation, developed by Grachev and Kvashnin, was actually a plan for the death of troops. Today I can confidently say that it was not justified by any operational tactical calculations. Such a plan has a very definite name - an adventure. And considering that as a result of its implementation, hundreds of people died, - criminal adventure.

The neighbors (the “North” group), driven by the bosses sitting in the far Mozdok, blocked the streets with armored vehicles, which could not be deployed in the narrow streets of the city. And from the basements and windows of nearby houses, experienced fighters of Dudaev were already catching the sides of tanks in the sights of grenade launchers, they were looking at the faces of soldiers and officers into the powerful optical sights of imported sniper rifles. It was twilight. And the gunmen pulled the triggers. Their grenade launchers point blank shot armored vehicles. Mortars showered troops with a hail of mines. Tanks hit direct fire

“The defeat was complete,” says General Rokhlin. - The command was in shock. His main concern was, obviously, the search for excuses for what happened. Otherwise, it is difficult to explain the fact that no one contacted me. From that moment I have not received a single order. The bosses scooped up water. The Minister of Defense (General Pavel Grachev), as I was later told, did not leave his carriage in Mozdok and drank hopelessly ...

You can’t argue with Rokhlin ...

Who came up with tanks in the city to fight?

[Robbihood]

Quote: Zoldat_A

Who came up with tanks in the city to fight?

The Nazis managed to destroy a huge number of Soviet tanks during the Berlin operation, back in 1945. However, in the euphoria of the Great Victory no one even thought about the exact or at least approximate number of Soviet tanks that were hit and destroyed by the Nazis. As a result, the myth on this subject wandered for a long time in its infancy, mainly in the so-called conversations in the kitchen, especially when veterans met for a “glass of tea”.


When the Central Committee of the CPSU gave the go-ahead for the preparation and publication of memoirs of prominent military leaders during the war, then after the publication of memoirs of Marshal of the Soviet Union I.S. Konev, entitled "Forty-fifth" (M., 1980), the myth has found confirming flesh. Konev himself called the approximate exact number of destroyed Soviet tanks - more than 800 tanks: “During the Berlin operation, the Nazis managed to destroy and knock out more than 800 of our tanks and self-propelled guns. Moreover, the bulk of these losses are in battles in the city itself.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: robbihood

However, in the euphoria of the Great Victory no one even thought about the exact or at least an approximate number of Soviet tanks that were hit and destroyed by the Nazis.

For the sake of That Victory, life was laid apart. And whatever today's liberals say, it would be necessary - they would put as much more. In war, there is only one useless loss - self-arrows. And the rest is for Victory.

Have you heard such a song?

And that means we need one win,
One for all - we will not stand for the price.

Maybe this is the difference between our army and others? Maybe this is our main military secret? That we never thought that they could kill me right now. One hate. They shoot - and we shoot. And if you think about what they promised me for service, US citizenship, or a grant to study at college, or something else, no one will go into battle. Why should an American fight? Kill - who will get all the promised?

[Vasily Krylov]

I will add, I don’t remember from whom I heard this, but the quote is accurate “... the fatigue of our soldiers has reached such a level that there is only one desire left to finish it off as quickly as possible, no matter what.” This is about the Berlin operation.

[Terminolol]

I must admit that your comment on VO has been the best lately. Plusanul ... fully support. I would like to add that the winners are not judged.

[kayman4]

Quote: robbihood

Quote: Zoldat_A

Who came up with tanks in the city to fight?

The Nazis managed to destroy a huge number of Soviet tanks during the Berlin operation, back in 1945. However, in the euphoria of the Great Victory no one even thought about the exact or at least approximate number of Soviet tanks that were hit and destroyed by the Nazis. As a result, the myth on this subject wandered for a long time in its infancy, mainly in the so-called conversations in the kitchen, especially when veterans met for a “glass of tea”.


When the Central Committee of the CPSU gave the go-ahead for the preparation and publication of memoirs of prominent military leaders during the war, then after the publication of memoirs of Marshal of the Soviet Union I.S. Konev, entitled "Forty-fifth" (M., 1980), the myth has found confirming flesh. Konev himself called the approximate exact number of destroyed Soviet tanks - more than 800 tanks: “During the Berlin operation, the Nazis managed to destroy and knock out more than 800 of our tanks and self-propelled guns. Moreover, the bulk of these losses are in battles in the city itself.

And if some people turn on their heads besides this, then they will see that the 2TA suffered the majority of the losses, which was deficient in the infantry, and if you look carefully, it turns out that most of the tanks were hit by artillery.

Loss of tanks in the urban battles themselves were much lower than on the outskirts of the city.

And who can’t draw conclusions here?

[EvilLion]

Stop lying, not 3.14 back. In the Berlin operation, the loss of armies directly in the city is two dozen tanks, and the main losses for the entire operation are defeated by powerful cannons, and the Faustpatrons are even less effective than aircraft.

[Irokez]

This is Berlin and the Germans stood there to the end and why the armored vehicles were so shot, so because the fauspatron was such a thing and any soldier could knock out a tank, and this is not an anti-tank gun that you immediately destroyed. He sat in the basement or on the roof of the house and everything was a tank kayuk.
And the tactics of the offensive were chosen, from the beginning the infantry marched ahead and cleared nearby houses, and the armored vehicles at a distance worked. Since the fauspatron worked at a distance of about 100-150 meters, this distance was maintained.
It’s good to talk about the miscalculations of that time by the chair behind the monitor, but if they had gone without tanks, then the infantry would have lost more and Berlin would have been taken for a long time.

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: robbihood

The Nazis managed to destroy a huge number of Soviet tanks during the Berlin operation, back in 1945. However, in the euphoria of the Great Victory no one even thought about the exact or at least approximate number of Soviet tanks that were hit and destroyed by the Nazis. As a result, the myth on this subject wandered for a long time in its infancy, mainly in the so-called conversations in the kitchen, especially when veterans met for a “glass of tea”.

That's just the REASON why our troops were forced to urgently finish off Berlin, you did not name - and the risk of a separate peace was very great and the British were already developing plans to "withdraw" the USSR from Europe.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Blackgrifon

That's just the REASON why our troops were forced to urgently finish off Berlin, you did not name - and the risk of a separate peace was very great and the British were already developing plans to "withdraw" the USSR from Europe.

Do not worry so much. Tovarisch Rezuna read.
The loss of armored vehicles in the Berlin operation was moderate. And clearly smaller in comparison with the battle on the Oryol-Kursk arch.
A. Isaev very popularly explained this in his book "Berlin 45: Battles in the den of the beast".

[anti-Semite]

for the sake of THAT Victory, ANY sacrifice could be made, like to talk about the price of Victory, and are you ready to discuss the price of defeat?

[Forest]

In a city without tanks of people, put a bunch. The same machine-gun nests become silent much faster when an 125 mm land mine arrives, rather than a grenade bursting through the enemy’s defenses.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Forest

The same machine-gun nests become silent much faster when an 125 mm land mine arrives, rather than a grenade bursting through the enemy’s defenses.

Machine-gun nests are silenced not from the grenade of "infantrymen who broke through the enemy's defenses," but from the quality work of the art or from the arriving pair of Mi-24s.

[Forest]

Which will demolish a couple of blocks nearby, but do not understand where what needs to be destroyed.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Forest

That will take a couple of blocks away but they don’t understand where what should be destroyed.

Which will demolish a couple of blocks nearby, and at the same time machine-gun nests. Or should we think about preserving local architectural monuments?

[igorka357]

Strange, I thought the monuments of architecture did not have a nationality, and all are the heritage of mankind ...! Therefore, they should be destroyed only under one condition, if the enemy is there ... and you can’t smoke it with any more forces!

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: igorka357

Strange, I thought the monuments of architecture did not have a nationality, and all are the heritage of mankind ...! Therefore, they should be destroyed only under one condition, if the enemy is there ... and you can’t smoke it with any more forces!

You, Igor, yourself suppressed at least one firing point in your life? Do you think that in war there is time to talk about the historical value of the building in which the enemy is seated? And in general, I did not speak about architecture. Architecture was mentioned by me in connection with the statement Forestry about the fact that art or Mi-24 will demolish a couple of blocks without thinking. And I added that if the machine gun nests are ALSO - then to hell with them, with quarters. Any soldier from my platoon is more precious to me than these two blocks ... Learn to understand the meaning of what you read ...

[igorka357]

Personally, I did not press the firing points nirazu, but if you are interested in my personal fate, you can ask me in a personal, and I advise you to read my comment to the end, otherwise it feels like you read the first sentence, but not the second! stormed the city with infantry in all wars at all times? Probably in your opinion ... there is a factory or a mosque or a church, and three militants have settled in it, soak the factory and the mosque and the church with artillery, because during the assault you can suffer losses ..! one more thing, it is noticeable how many firing points you suppressed, if you think that the mi-24 is capable of demolishing a couple of quarters, a quarter is a quarter of strife, artillery is capable of this and even more, but a helicopter ...))), you overestimate the capabilities of a "crocodile" ... I will immediately answer I saw how it works repeatedly, and even in pairs ... the car is terrible when it enters the battlefield ... but not for a couple of quarters, even the smallest in old cities, about 100x120, and in new ones there may be 1000x1000 ..)) I saw how they worked on capital two-story buildings in h Astnik ... the couple worked well, and when they poked their heads from there, they started shooting .. they’re like rats .. they’re like a pad .. it was filled up and he found a gap and from under the stove the bastard shoots!

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: igorka357

Mi-24 is capable of demolishing a couple of quarters, a quarter is a quarter of strife, artillery is capable of this and even more, but a helicopter ...))), you overestimate the capabilities of a "crocodile" ...

I didn’t write about quarters (see above)... The whole point of my answer, because of what flew "minus" and g..ov..nos..rach - this is what the hell with them, with the blocks, just to suppress the machine gun. And who will carry the neighborhoods out there - I'm not interested. There will be no one - well, they somehow managed without them, and without breaking up the quarters ... But the Mi-24 adobe is nevertheless famously spreading ...

However, to be honest, I'm tired of nonsense procrastinating ...

[igorka357]

I carried the adobe from the "cliff" and what?

[samoletil18]

"cliff" and a hut with pravoseki will smash.

[strannik1985]

In half an hour (when the enemy withdraws, 24 hours a day, you cannot provide air support to each company / battalion) or in the morning (for example, during a night battle), together with your soldiers (if the battle is at a short distance).

[Forest]

Only NAR is unlikely to pierce a couple of floors exactly where this machine-gun nest is located, which is very difficult to notice from the air. When tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and infantry act together and harmoniously, then losses are minimized in equipment, and especially among personnel. For example, the storming of houses in Iraq, where the Americans used only infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers. The assault on a pair of private houses on the 4-5 rooms dragged on for several hours until the firing points were silenced, while the assault groups reached positions, while the automatic guns and machine guns pushed through the walls.

[tank64rus]

The tank was created as a means of strengthening infantry in the 1st World War. Now the tasks have changed, but this has remained one of the main ones. Marines and tankers must be trained to interact with a specific tank with a specific unit. Tank protects infantry infantry tank. Syria, install on your tanks an aerosol airborne container of armored objects and if very well the installation of jet flamethrowers combined with anti-aircraft. Everything has been developed long ago, the container was tested in the 2nd Chechen. The results are excellent, but things are still there.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Zoldat_A

Pasha-"Mercedes" in Grozny killed 62 tanks and 1500 people. May the earth be glassy! Didn't he know about it? Or did he expect that it would be like in Moscow in 91? Will the democratic horses jump and leap and go to the world? With a bad command (or in the absence of it, as in Grozny), any tank in the city is a box with a motor. Target

Why did they enter the city? There clearly was no civilian population left, it was necessary to iron the city from artillery and MLRS a month before entering it.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

Why did they enter the city?

Pasha - "Mercedes" with Yeltsin know. It’s a pity they won’t say anything ...

[igorka357]

Tanks are perfectly at war in the city when interacting with infantry ...

[strannik1985]

Those who came up with the tactics of using the tank as part of the fire support group of the assault detachment (herringbone construction, reconnaissance, target designation, etc.), those who do not forget to refuel the PPO cylinders and put explosives in the DZ containers. Common truths known since Spain (by tactics).

[EvilLion]

That's right, fight in the city with one infantry. It showed itself very "remarkably" during the battles for "" Budapest at the end of the Second World War.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Zoldat_A

Who came up with tanks in the city to fight?

And so those who stormed the city in 44-45 Europe think so ... only here our Napoleons understand such a thing that they will forgive everyone and increase them to retire, and that before retirement they should be quiet and only then harness (to Rokhlin this it’s not drowning), but only the CITY can’t be taken by equipment without trained infantry (attack aircraft), because you’ll bleed with blood ...

[GSH-18]

The heroism of the Syrian tankers can not compensate for the fatal flaws of the T-55 and T-62 tanks

These obsolete tanks have no chance even against RPGs. And about the new anti-tank systems and say nothing. they need good active and passive protection, because they mainly work in urban areas, where cockroaches with RPGs are like in a trash can. Otherwise, the tanks will quickly fail and tankers will die.

[igorka357]

You expressed an interesting saying ... I advise you to read how the concept of using armored vehicles was created, otherwise let aviation with artillery and infantry ... but why the hell do you need a tank there then! Of course not in the forehead, of course with the support of aviation and artillery but. ..only in the forefront!

[EvilLion]

I wonder why then in Grozny in the 99-2000-th tank units did not suffer heavy losses, lobeshniki pulled out multiple hits from the RPG, and the sides and asses did not painfully substitute? Against a modern tank, a hand grenade launcher in the forehead is ineffective.

[marlin1203]

If a tank moves in defense longitudinally behind a poured parapet and the enemy sees only the top of the tower, then there is a good chance to survive. And these are the Syrian tankers who know how. On the offensive - only after infantry and only after powerful artillery fire. In the city, it remains only to be scalded with gratings and wrapped in sandbags. No options.

[Strashila]

The tank will remain a tank, the question of its application on the battlefield becomes. The tank works in the line of sight. And it also needs support.
The role of intelligence, communications and coordination of units is growing. The importance of arming mounted fire at a distance of up to 3-5 km is growing in order to cover the ATGM coverage area while providing cover for armored vehicles.

[Aleksandr72]

The recipe for the successful use of even outdated armored vehicles is indicated in the article itself, which by the way I have already met on other Internet resources:

successfully resolve the current situation, the Syrians need to establish successful interaction between the advancing tank and infantry units with artillery, conduct more thorough reconnaissance, and make more active use of snipers armed with large-caliber weapons.

It seems to be a common army truth, known from the time when tanks first appeared on the battlefield, however ... it is common for the military of all times and countries to step on the same rake, making all the same mistakes. And one more nuance, no matter how modern and invulnerable a technique is, when used illiterate on the battlefield, it burns no worse than the most outdated one. There are plenty of examples.
I have the honor.

[Alekseev]

Quote: Alexander72

The recipe for the successful use of even outdated armored vehicles is indicated in the article itself.

That's right!
The best armor is a howitzer, a heavy mortar. And if the Su-25 and Mi-24 appear, then very well!
But the modernization of the T-62 and T-55 is possible and necessary.
Reinforced DZ, anti-splinter lining, "Shtora", thermal imager, anti-cumulative screens, electronic warfare in breakthrough areas where ATGM is used. Although TOW is wire-guided, she is unlikely to like the powerful EMP.

[Angro Magno]

No need to upgrade old equipment. Irrationally. T-72 from the reserve must be sent. And in return new rivets.

[Logos]

This "recipe" looks amazing on exercises, but does not work well in real wars with a strong enemy. Its authors, by the way, are Hitler's theorists, who were not embarrassed by the saturation of the Soviet army with Kv and T34 tanks, with which the German T3 and T4 were unable to fight. It was assumed that the T34 would be destroyed by aircraft and artillery, while the T3 and T4 would not meet with them at all. But in a real battle, where the situation changes unpredictably and the enemy does not pose as a target, but acts very actively, all theoretical constructions, such as "tanks with tanks do not fight" quickly go to hell

[Arktidianets]

Why is costation necessary for all known facts? The article is not about anything.

[corporal]

Buy a windbreaker from the Israelites?

[kuz363]

If the missile penetrates double protection and the thickness of the armor does not play a special role. Then, by reducing the thickness of the armor (respectively, the weight of the tank), add 3, 4, ... protection belt. Those. multi-layered "cake". True, then missiles will also be invented against such protection. And the rocket can hit the track rollers that are not protected. And the fact that "Armata" can destroy missiles and shells on approach to the tank is probably bullshit.

[Camel]

And the fact that "Armata" can destroy missiles and shells on approach to the tank is probably bullshit.

Can. I know for sure, for it was KAZ that was involved in the development.

[AllXVahhaB]

We can’t fit a couple of hundred t-72s to them?

[Professor]

Quote: AllXVahhaB

We can’t fit a couple of hundred t-72s to them?

The TOU successfully copes with the T-72, and the militias in Syria also have Cornets.

The heroism of the Syrian tankers can not compensate for the fatal flaws of the T-55 and T-62 tanks

I did not see heroism in the behavior of Assad tankers. When a tank is hit, they usually heroically scatter in different directions, throwing their comrades.

[Amnestied]

I did not see heroism in the behavior of Assad tankers. When a tank is hit, they usually heroically scatter in different directions, throwing their comrades.

Professor, the tankers of the wing also scatter in different directions, from 0.28 seconds.

[Professor]

Quote: Amnestied

Professor, the tankers of the wing also scatter in different directions, from 0.28 seconds.

Throwing comrades? It's not about leaving a wrecked tank, but how they heroically save their skin forgetting about comrades.

Quote: AlNikolaich

Oleg, what do you call the bearded terrogyug militias?

This is not what I came up with. This is your native Foreign Ministry came up with.

Quote: AlNikolaich

And about the heroism of the tankers, the IDF tankers do not do this when they hit the tank?

Save the comrades. On the coveralls of Israeli tankers, even a special loop to make it easier to pull the wounded tanker out of the damaged tank.

Quote: AlNikolaich

And about the main problem voiced in the article, I completely agree with Alexander72.

4 years of civil war in Syria taught us that the Assad army is not learning anything. As they drove tanks without cover, they were chasing them.

PS
Here, please see what your Foreign Ministry is broadcasting:
Russia will consider the possibility of providing military support to the opposition in Syria

[Amnestied]

Quote: professor

Throwing comrades? It's not about leaving a wrecked tank, but how they heroically save their skin forgetting about comrades.

Professor, how did you determine that the Syrian tankers running away from a wrecked tank are not worried about their comrades? And how running away from the wrecked merkava, Israeli heroes are very, very worried about their colleagues?

PS I would call it petty trollism if I didn’t know that it was a banal hutspa.

[Professor]

Quote: Amnestied

Professor, how did you determine that the Syrian tankers running away from a wrecked tank are not worried about their comrades?

They should not worry about their comrades, but save them. In general, Syrian tankers are used to draping Drapali in 1967, 1973 and 1982. Tradition however.

Quote: Amnestied

And how running away from the wrecked merkava, Israeli heroes are very, very worried about their colleagues?

And where did they run away leaving their comrades?

[Amnestied]

Quote: professor

And where did they run away leaving their comrades?

Where, according to your statement, the Syrian tankers abandoned their comrades.

[Professor]

Quote: Amnestied

Where, according to your statement, the Syrian tankers abandoned their comrades.

See the video above.

Quote: Aron Zaavi

In 73, they fought hard and courageously, just ours from 7 and 188 TBR got to death and 7 backup vehicles and 18% l / s remained in service for the approach of the reserve TDVs in 25, and in 188 7 cars and 5% l / s.

They fought "firmly and courageously" while they had a significant numerical superiority, and as the forces began to compare, they, as always, "firmly and courageously" fought.

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Well, in 1982, the Syrians didn’t run away either, although this was the only time ours put up the same number of tanks against them.

And in 1982, they were draping.

Quote: Aron Zaavi

One Sultan-Yakub is worth.

What? Killed 18 fighters, lost 10 tanks and 4 tanks got to the Syrians? This battle did not enter the pantheon only because of the brainless command.

Quote: Aron Zaavi

In general, we were accustomed to the idea that among the Syrians the tankers and special forces were the elite.

Now that we know what this "elite" is like, you can imagine what the rest of the forces are.

Quote: Earnest

Health to you, professor, at the computer.

It’s me now at the computer, like everyone else, and Motherland will call and again I’ll go with arms in my arms to fight for it.

[Amnestied]

Quote: professor

It’s me now at the computer, like everyone else, and Motherland will call and again I’ll go with arms in my arms to fight for it.

Professor, such an opinion is that you are trying to prove to yourself something, maybe you have some secrets, maybe complexes, take them out to the discussion forum. My advice to you: shave the pace, put on your underpants and change the synagogue, your slave is no good.

[NyeMoNik70]

The Zionist "professor" was unlucky today, no matter how the guard shouted, they were still guided by the lips ...
Amnestied BRAVO!
But the Zionists should not relax, Israel apparently has outlived its own. It is not clear where to put people. True, in the Russian army there are always places for IDF tankmen. Valuable they are contingent.

[Leonid1976]

I envy your country. You have a nation. In Ukraine, not yet. In Russia, I’m afraid that it’s already gone.

[Amnestied]

Quote: Leonid1976

I envy your country. You have a nation. In Ukraine, not yet. In Russia, I’m afraid that it’s already gone.

Oh, if you knew what kind of country such Israel is, you would never be jealous. In Ukraine, there is no nation, for there is no such nation as the Ukrainian, there are Slavs, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians — this is one nation, temporarily divided by treason.

[Amnestied]

Yesterday they built the Gulag.
Today - hung out the flag.
And behind the concrete wall
The whole world raised a howl.

[anti-Semite]

so why suffer? suitcase train station israel borders open force hold no one

[aws4]

the fact that Russia is no longer .. let's say it is almost gone, I agree .... but what does it mean in Ukraine yet ???? explain how to understand this))))))))))) oh yes and not B but in Ukraine do not distort please the Russian language and prevailing speech speed ...

[Amnestied]

Quote: aws4

oh yes and not B but IN Ukraine, please do not distort the Russian language and prevailing speech turnovers ...

I used to think that in Ukraine, in the Urals, in the Caucasus. But current events have changed my mind. I think it will be right in shit, in zh.o.p. and, accordingly, in Ukraine.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: professor

Quote: Amnestied

Professor, how did you determine that the Syrian tankers running away from a wrecked tank are not worried about their comrades?

They should not worry about their comrades, but save them. In general, Syrian tankers are used to draping Drapali in 1967, 1973 and 1982. Tradition however.

Oleg, you're wrong. You know, I did an emergency at 601 bt, and darling in engineering at 14 TBR. And they dragged us precisely to the Syrian tanks all these years. So in 67, the Syrian tank fleet was extremely weak and they almost did not enter the battle. In 73, they fought hard and courageously, just ours from 7 and 188 TBR got to death and 7 backup vehicles and 18% l / s remained in service for the approach of the reserve TDVs in 25, and in 188 7 cars and 5% l / s.
Well, in 1982, the Syrians didn’t run away either, although this was the only time ours put up the same number of tanks against them. One Sultan-Yakub is worth. In general, we were accustomed to the idea that among the Syrians the tankers and special forces were the elite.

[igorka357]

But I didn’t see the pulling out of Jewish comrades by other comrades either! And about traditions, all over the world it’s a tradition not to love your nation!

[gray]

Hello professor. Here is the professor, you answered the question (answering AlNikolaich's quote) why they run and don't save their comrades: "4 years of the civil war in Syria taught us that the Assad army does not learn anything. How they drove tanks without cover, they drive . "That's exactly 4 years and no tactics to reduce losses from anti-tank weapons have not been invented. Therefore, in most cases, there is no way to help your comrades.

[igorka357]

Are you responsible for every Jewish tanker ...? Each Jew will save his fellow tankman only if he owes him money ...! Somewhere I read that Solger waved when he was captured should lay out everything he knows for the sake of saving how the professor put his skin, or you prof. you think only the Syrians have a skin .. yes you don’t have a Jews skin even more expensive .. and your soldier should save it by saying everything he knows .. since the command promises that he will pull it out by any forces if he remains alive .. if they are Jews! !!

[padded jacket]

Quote: Amnestied

professor, tankers of the wing also scatter in different directions

Naturally, all tanks have "drawbacks" all the more so in such rather old ones as the T-55, T-62 when "modern" anti-tank guns are used against them, as well as various landmines.
For example, the "not killed" Merkavas :

More photos can be seen here:
http://forum.topwar.ru/topic/907-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BD%D1%8

B%D0%B5-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B8%D1%88%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%8F-%D1%8

1-%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%85%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9-%D0%B8%D0%B7%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B

8%D0%BB%D1%8F/?page=1

[Zuborez]

Oh, that glorious Lebanese campaign. And the child prodigy Merkava

[AlNikolaich]

Oleg, what do you call the bearded terrogyug militias?
And about the heroism of the tankers, the IDF tankers do not do this when they hit the tank?
Or everyone should burn with the tank!
And about the main problem voiced in the article, I completely agree with Alexander72.

[Alekseev]

Quote: professor

and the militias in Syria also have Cornets.

Militias in Syria ...
An interesting position of the husband of Israel.
Well, Assad does not like Israel, the Israelis do not like Assad.
And the "militias" in Syria burn "tender love" for the Jews?
What, Assad, those who are worse for him than them, these riflemen?
Yes, there are many of them in Syria, but like those who are for the current president.
But whether the "militias" are better than Assad for anyone, including Israel, is a big question.

[padded jacket]

Quote: Alekseev

Militias in Syria ...
An interesting position of the husband of Israel.

Naturally, the professor calls the terrorists of IS, Al-Nusra "militias" because the creation of these gangs of murderers is a joint project of the CIA and the Mossad and they are Israel's "best friends".

[anti-Semite]

so in the 90s, long before Putin came to power and the well-known events on the outskirts, Jews called the Wahhabis of the Caucasus militias and rebels, and for one they actively helped them with weapons and training on their territory

[igorka357]

I thought the mods were normal here, but I’m forced to insult the moderator’s brotherhood IN! Do you want to skip such a video? Although I love this site, these videos are unacceptable, the direct murder of a man by terrorists, even a military man! And you professor are enjoying the death of a tanker, yes. .. how can you love your nation ... maybe put a video or photo of your tanned Tsakhalov’s torn into pieces eh? I’ll look and lay out .. and even better send you a PM ... although for me a Jew is like a Westerner to be honest!

[aiden]

And Israel, we have a Nazi state, they do not recognize anyone for the people except themselves. Just ignore these Jewish comrades. Their administration is lobbying

[anti-Semite]

already there was an article on this subject where the valiant banshee said that he would crush all who are against Jews and Bulgarians the truth about russophobes the banshee didn’t say anything VO politics are more and more like an echo of Moscow
you can remind the pro-processor about the swords in m113 during their last attack on Palestine

[Evrepid]

Poor thing. I jumped to the wrong side.
You need to send a couple of "Armats" to pass the test in battle.

[accordionist]

This is not a bad idea, especially since the Bulgarians do not understand what the gift was for, but here people will pay if anything. Only now the problem will be to deliver all this, and modernization will be needed - a modern remote sensing system, a "curtain" and anti-cumulative screens. Although without the competent use of tanks, all this will still be useless hardware.

[Vadim237]

We can fit them all, but there’s nothing to customize.

[Steppe]

What the Syrians NEED to do the Russian military, of course, see. But WILL the Syrians do what is needed? Will they make mistakes? That is the question. In any case, I think they need a new technique and new knowledge.

[Amnestied]

The heroism of the Syrian tankers can not compensate for the fatal flaws of the T-55 and T-62 tanks
A question to AFtor: what are the "fatal flaws" of the T-55 and T-62 tanks? The cars are very decent for their time. The article "smacks".

[Stelth1985]

The trouble is not in the cars. And in the organization. The cars are good, albeit outdated. Improper use without proper reconnaissance, infantry support, incorrect formation of battle formations, etc. All this leads to the death of these machines. Why, for example, did they not "grow" bushes on them? The tank must have at least such a disguise that it is impossible to determine exactly its individual parts. So to say, blur the background. An RPGeshnik, shooting, will not be able to accurately aim if he does not see the clear outlines of the hull and turret from afar. And this already by 50% reduces the danger of heavy damage to the tank. So it's just the organization, not the machines themselves. For waging a war with the blockheads, these machines are also enough, as well as 72ek. The only question is their number and planning of operations.

[pimen]

or maybe we need to recall the experience of the Germans in the Second World War and set up screens? In Syria, it looks the most real

[alone]

The tactics used by the Syrian troops during the conflict led to the fact that today we have to fight against modern ATGM systems with the T-55 and T-62 tanks.
Have you forgotten how you fought in city blocks with the help of some T-72s without infantry support? This is where the situation comes from.

[raid14]

Tanks at ATS are mainly T-55, T-62 without DZ, although Kontakt-71 does not work against the BGM-1,5 TOW tamdem warheads, and no one will put Relikt on old tanks. The best solution against will be the periodic setting of smoke screens on the march and actions in a combat situation with the help of "Clouds". The protective screens of the frontal projection of the double "Umbrella" type installed on the barrel of a weapon to initiate a remote detonation of a warhead can be relatively weak. Terrain reconnaissance using UAVs, counter-sniper groups with long-range large-caliber rifles to destroy ATGM operators.

[Stelth1985]

I agree. Bushes still need to decorate the tanks to blur the background for RPGeshnikov. The barrel mesh can be used. Use quick marches in battle areas, and not go like in a parade to get laid. Use infantry in front of the armored vehicles, use front-end small-caliber guns to directly support the advancing units with direct fire. On the tanks, you can put special screens allocated from the hull at a certain distance and at angles to break the direction of the cumulative stream of ammunition and more. Why not use mining actively in areas where woodworkers operate.

For the Honor and Glory of the ancestors!

[Fotoceva62]

“Professor ... I did not see heroism in the behavior of Assad tankers. When a tank is hit, they usually heroically scatter in different directions, leaving their comrades ... "
Apparently you often left a burning tank or received shell shock when a combat vehicle was defeated. Everything happens in the war and this is not a beautiful movie picture.
All tankers try to leave the wrecked vehicle as soon as possible because the combat unit and not everyone at this moment thinks of something else, but as soon as possible to run away.
In short, sir ... don’t judge, but you will be unprepared ... I understand that you personally are not like the above-mentioned tanker ...
On tanks: 1. there are no non-affected armored vehicles. 2. The tank has the highest combat stability. 3. in a city building without proper cover by infantry and without the support of other weapons, any of the most sophisticated cars burn. But the fact that Syria after many years of war with bandits perfectly equipped with the West (moderate and not moderate opposition, however, I don’t understand the varieties of feces) a sufficient number of tanks and tankers suggests that the Syrian army knows how to fight.

[Professor]

Quote: Fotoceva62

All tankers try to leave the wrecked vehicle as soon as possible because the combat unit and not everyone at this moment thinks of something else, but as soon as possible to run away.

Not all. In some armies, the first thing they do is save their comrades, rather than leaving them to burn in the tank, "thinking about something else as soon as possible to run away." Moreover, in some tanks, the detonation of the ammo rack is very rare.

[accordionist]

More recently, I saw a video where a Syrian tankman jumped out of a burning tank immediately rushed to save his comrades and apparently died - the ammunition detonated. And you apparently just feel a sense of racial hostility towards the Syrians.

[Professor]

Quote: igorka357

I bastard nation of heroes Jews damn it!

You are the last warning and go to the emergency Natsik. In the meantime, educational program for you:
List of Jews - Heroes of the Soviet Union
Although one Lev Rokhlin would be enough for you.

[cherkas.oe]

Quote: professor

List of Jews - Heroes of the Soviet Union

Tell me please. Why in the lists of Heroes of Russia, which were awarded during the EBNovsky Sabbath, there is no Starinov Ilya Grigoryevich. He is not a Jew or little distinguished himself before the fatherland? Indeed, three times he was introduced to the Hero and three times to the rank of general, and once the Mehlis promised to shoot him. The father of the Soviet - Russian special forces, survived to a hundred years, died in the 2000th year. Apparently his face did not come out?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: cherkas.oe

Quote: professor

List of Jews - Heroes of the Soviet Union

Tell me please. Why in the lists of Heroes of Russia, which were awarded during the EBNovsky Sabbath, there is no Starinov Ilya Grigoryevich. He is not a Jew or little distinguished himself before the fatherland? Indeed, three times he was introduced to the Hero and three times to the rank of general, and once the Mehlis promised to shoot him. The father of the Soviet - Russian special forces, survived to a hundred years, died in the 2000th year. Apparently his face did not come out?

Bad luck. Here Joseph Rappoport also introduced himself three times to the rank of GSS and alas.
http://topwar.ru/58253-geroi-i-mify-pochemu-genetik-iosif-rapoport-ne-stal-geroe
M-Sovetskogo-soyuza-i-Rossii.html

[cherkas.oe]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Bad luck. Here is Joseph Rappoport too

Thank you Aron, for your participation and information about Rapoport, but I would like to listen to my namesake on the above question. And he is something like a fish on ice.

[igorka357]

You already poked me a disgrace with this list, all these heroes were not Jews, but did the Soviet people understand? The list of modern Jewish heroes in the studio? You're just ridiculous!

[cherkas.oe]

Quote: igorka357

You already poked me a shame with this list

Quote: igorka357

You are just ridiculous!

What are you dear hysteria, like a "fairy from the bar", behave yourself, please do not poke your interlocutor. You are apparently an intelligent person. Or not? Well then, sorry.

[igorka357]

When a person almost openly expresses an opinion about my native nation .. the nation of Russian people negatively, when he openly uploads a video of the murder of a military man fulfilling his duty to the Motherland, and at the same time insults him by saying .. but my tankmen are not like that .. they all brave men will die completely but they will save a comrade, I can’t keep silent .. I hasten to add that when a prof speaks on the technical aspects of the aspect, I often agree with him! But sometimes this individual is so annoying that patience is not enough, well, he’s so nervous .. I'm sorry !

[Professor]

Quote: igorka357

List of modern Jewish heroes in the studio?

Nowadays the heroes of the fatherland are different.

But Lev Rokhlin was introduced to the title of Hero of Russia, but refused to accept her, saying that in a civil war it is impossible to be a hero.

[cherkas.oe]

Quote: professor

But Lev Rokhlin was introduced to the title of Hero of Russia, but refused to accept her, saying that in a civil war it is impossible to be a hero.

In any war, you can be a hero, to be honest and smart, and not to allow yourself to be used, to a third force that peeps around the corner and uses you as a consumable. I don’t want to say that Leo was a bad man, but he allowed himself to be used in a game about which, in view of his naivety and moral purity, he did not even imagine. God was a judge to him and the kingdom of heaven.

[igorka357]

Lev Rokhlin was undoubtedly a hero in the war ... well, further, then what? Ruska Zemstvo nurtured thousands of such heroes! I will name another hero, General Lebed ... a hero ... of course a hero, a military officer! And now I will add that one that the second had to serve the motherland to the end, and not start playing politics, and arrange undercover intrigues with the writing of incriminating memoirs! I can also give an example ... Kvachkov, swore an oath to serve the motherland, serve by any means to save the motherland from any aggression ... also began to kick in the direction of "there" why .. because the officers were really worthy. Two in heaven, one behind bars! What they achieved .. the truth, the truth is that a military who swore an oath of allegiance is obliged to defend the Motherland!

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: igorka357

You already poked me a disgrace with this list, all these heroes were not Jews, but did the Soviet people understand? The list of modern Jewish heroes in the studio? You're just ridiculous!

I'm sorry, but all the Russians on the GSS list are also not Russian, but Soviet?

[anti-Semite]

that is how Soviet people lived in the USSR

[cherkas.oe]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

I'm sorry, but all the Russians on the GSS list are also not Russian, but Soviet?

Aron, I ask you: - "Do not be like the patient."

[igorka357]

Aaron .. dear ... a person not from the Soviet Union could not get the title of a hero of the Soviet Union .. with respect! And note I did not write that on that list there was one Russian nationality! In the USSR everyone was Soviet, and the mentality and concepts were different!

[gray]

I always treated you with respect, but don’t even mention the name of Lev Yakovlevich Rokhlin. He would not have appreciated your personal hostility towards Russia. By the way, by your standards, he was semi-Jewish.

[igorka357]

Well, probably the professional thinks so ... Rokhlina was called Leo ... by the way, I hasten to reveal a terrible secret ... ready ... my grandfather, who went through the whole war, was twice wounded and lost a foot, his name was Ilya Cherevatenko, and he was a Soviet man defending their homeland to the end ..

[Professor]

Quote: gray

I always treated you with respect, but don’t even mention the name of Lev Yakovlevich Rokhlin. He would not have appreciated your personal hostility towards Russia. By the way, by your standards, he was semi-Jewish.

Show at least one of my comments where I would speak disparagingly or with hostility about Russia or Russians.
There are no semi-Jews.

Quote: cherkas.oe

Why in the lists of Heroes of Russia, which were awarded during the EBNovsky Sabbath, there is no Starinov Ilya Grigoryevich.

You ask this question to those who give out stars.

Quote: igorka357

When a person almost openly expresses an opinion about my own nation .. the nation of Russian people negatively

Don't fantasize. In none of my comments will you find offensive or negative attitudes either towards Russians or towards Russia. I, unlike you, did not write "I bastard a nation of heroes ....... damn it!" But you were smart enough.

Quote: igorka357

when he openly uploads a video of the murder of a military man doing his duty to his homeland

Is this the "hero" who drapanul fulfilled his duty to the Motherland? We have different ideas about the duty to the Motherland.

Quote: igorka357

.Man not from the Soviet Union could not get the title Hero of the Soviet Union .. Regards!

Intelligence is just rushing. Here Hero of the Soviet Union Nasser did not know that he was not from the Soviet Union and received the star of the hero.

Quote: Vais

Often, in order to get the hero of the Soviet Union, it was necessary not to fight bravely, but simply to have good connections.

Of course. Tell me what feat Hero of Russia Shoigu made? Where did he risk his life? Who did you save under fire?

[Amnestied]

Quote: professor

Is this the "hero" who drapanul fulfilled his duty to the Motherland? We have different ideas about the duty to the Motherland.

Professor, and what does it concern you so much about the morale of the Syrian soldiers? You have been trying to prove that they are cowards for XNUMX hours, however, it is these soldiers who heroically confront the jackals from ISIS created by your Mossad. It is you and your nation that cowardly create all kinds of groups from the Arabs, and set them against each other (an example of ISIS and Hamas), you are cowards, because only cowards behind their backs do such things. I was right, professor, change manuals, they no longer work.

[Professor]

Quote: Amnestied

Professor, and what does it concern you so much about the morale of the Syrian soldiers?

How can I not care about the morale of the enemy?

Quote: Amnestied

You have been trying to prove that they are cowards for XNUMX hours, however, it is these soldiers who heroically confront the jackals from ISIS created by your Mossad.

They are cowards. They always darted and draped. In all the wars with Israel, they were draping, they were draping from the Jordanians, and now they are draping from terrorists armed with DShKs leaving most of their country.

Quote: Amnestied

It is you and your nation that cowardly create all kinds of groups from the Arabs, and set them against each other (an example of ISIS and Hamas), you are cowards, because only cowards behind their backs do such things.

[gray]

About skidding, skidding and will skidding will not be okay. Do not remember the old wars, now the wars are completely different. By the way, your wars (active phase) also did not last so long. The Arab-Israeli war (1947-1949) does not count, it's completely different history. So, without support and allies, you will lose a modern war. Salvation is in one in a "super bomb", which you allegedly either do not have, or have. I fully support you (professor) about the created groups. A person who does not know everything mixed in one basket. He probably heard something about the patronage and financing of Hamas at the beginning of Israel's journey and mixed everything in one pile. And so he created various groups and you watch how they wet each other, but there is a rice of their unification in front of a common enemy, you. " us "there is no difference, terrorists are terrorists.

[Professor]

Quote: gray

So, without support and allies you will lose the modern war.

What allies and when they fought for Israel? Who supported Israel?

Quote: gray

He probably heard something about patronage and financing at the beginning of Israel’s Hamas journey and mixed everything together.

Israel never funded Hamas. He did not actively oppose its creation, maybe, but he did not support it either.

[Amnestied]

Quote: professor

Israel never funded Hamas. He did not actively oppose its creation, maybe, but he did not support it either.

Oh wei shlimazoly from Hamas - well done, received for anti-Semitism, so now esho and for fascism there will be a surcharge))) Takoshe Gnenky double gesheft however.

[gray]

Directly or not, Israel financed. "The charitable and religious activities of the future leader of Hamas, Ahmed Yassin, who founded the Islamic charitable organization Mujama al-Islamiya (founded in 1967) in the territories occupied by Israel in 1978, was encouraged by the Israeli military administration. the organization that became the forerunner of Hamas received funding from Israel, and Israel also allowed it to receive donations from the Arab countries of the Persian Gulf.According to the relatives of one of the founders of Hamas Azzam, Hamas enjoyed the support not only of Israel, but also the organization Fatah, which received assistance from the Soviet Union ... ". Material from Wikipedia.

[Amnestied]

Quote: gray

He probably heard something about patronage and financing at the beginning of Israel’s Hamas journey and mixed everything together.

The office of Israeli Prime Minister Olmert made an unprecedented admission in response to a request from the human rights organization Shurat A-Din: Israel continues to transfer hundreds of millions of dollars to the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip "for diplomatic reasons."

In response to an inquiry sent by lawyer Nitsana Darshan-Leitner, director of the human rights organization Shurat A-Din, the prime minister's office wrote that the transfer of funds to the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip is being carried out regularly after "consultations with the relevant departments."

Shurat A-Din accuses the Israeli government of secretly transferring hard currency to Hamas.
http://world.lib.ru/w/wekselxman_w/hamasolmert.shtml



Sivy! Your post is still a mishmash, Schaub. You have lived for a couple of years and have not coughed, shekels are not paid for this. Looks like brother, you mixed everything into one basket, and you still need to turn to Moishe or Wasserman, they will explain.

[Professor]

Quote: Amnestied

Israel continues to transfer hundreds of millions of dollars to the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip "for diplomatic reasons."

Of course. Indeed, otherwise they will die of hunger there. They don’t want to work.

[Amnestied]

Quote: professor

Israel never funded Hamas. He did not actively oppose its creation, maybe, but he did not support it either.

Quote: professor

Quote: Amnestied
Israel continues to transfer hundreds of millions of dollars to the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip "for diplomatic reasons."
Of course. Indeed, otherwise they will die of hunger there. They don’t want to work.

Professor, as you understand, has never financed, or of course financed?
yeah, professor, you can’t take a show off, you can’t live sweetly. At the present time, no one should be trusted ... For example, take me and last year’s summer-fall season. I’m walking around the city and not bothering anyone, I’m just hurrying home for lunch, since Friday is already, almost Saturday already. And suddenly, for no reason, I wanted to fart ... And what do you think yourself ???? Nice thing ... I only intended and planned ... just a fart, but in the end ... And how then can you trust someone, if you can't even trust yourself, a professor?

[VOLOD]

yes the professor lies.

[Professor]

Quote: Amnestied

Professor, as you understand, has never financed, or of course financed?

And what is to be understood here? Gaza is home to 1.8 million people who are not used to working but want to drink, eat and stay warm. From 1967 to 2005, Gaza was under Israeli rule. We fed them. Since 2005, they have been living "on their own", but have not learned to provide for themselves. We continue to feed them for humanitarian reasons, regardless of who is in power. The funding goes to the Gazans, not the Hamas in power. And the fact that Hamas is stealing is their problem.

[gray]

Dear professor, you again find fault with words. I know that there is no concept of "half-Jew". Here again about other heroes in the country today. As a provocateur. You may not love, but they stopped a lot of blood. We would have your fathers commanders and politicians, then neither whatever changes.

[Amnestied]

Quote: gray

I know that there is no concept of "half-Jew"

Oh, is there really no such thing as a "half-Jew"? And you, Greyish, ask our professor what the word "olim" means, and he will explain it to you with great enthusiasm and zeal.

[shishkin7676]

In Nasser’s office, a full-length portrait of Hitler hung (once read)

[aws4]

but it was superfluous ....

[VOLOD]

heroin father. in this situation, each acts in its own way. and those who save first a friend and then themselves, well, very few.

[Brown]

Many words of negativity and groundless mud pouring, you pulled a lot of your comrades from a burning tank ???? Have you taken part in many battles ??? Were you there at that moment ??? Who gave you the right to judge someone ?? !!
If you have a severe hostility growing into hatred of the Syrians, leave it to yourself and emanate yourself bile quietly peacefully at home on the couch.
In your comments, there is harsh criticism and negativity towards both Syria and Russia, maybe you just don’t go here so as not to get annoyed and not annoy others ???
And on your question about the fact that the Syrians are abandoning theirs, I recommend that you look at a bunch of vidyashas on the topic of saving tankers in Syria, and not come out without reason as bile.

[Professor]

Quote: Brown

And on your question about the fact that the Syrians are abandoning theirs, I recommend that you look at a bunch of vidyashas on the topic of saving tankers in Syria, and not come out without reason as bile.

Where are these vidyashki? In Google?

[serezhasoldatow]

Why declassified?

[Olezhek]

Thanks for the sofa !!!

[My address]

Do not la-la!
Sixty-two is a normal car with a skilled crew, especially with a normal mechanic drive, try to hit it! Tested in the 70s, in Mongolia, on exercises in the Gobi Desert. In the desert, where there is no place to hide, just a maneuver! But in principle, both "Baby" and TOW are the same in terms of hitting accuracy. And in general, a tank platoon or a rifle company, individually, will be great for a competently defending rifle platoon. But the competent joint actions of a tank platoon and a rifle company will give the defending battalion some more fights! Of course, the T-90 is better. But in the absence of stamped paper, it is necessary to write beautifully on a simple one.
And they were preparing tankers for at least two years. In 70 for a year, it turned out more or less only from a good college graduate. And what a contingent of Assad?

[alone]

Quote: My address

And they were preparing tankers for at least two years. In 70 for a year, it turned out more or less only from a good college graduate. And what a contingent of Assad?

The armored forces of Syria were considered the elite of the Syrian Army. He had a contingent. But this contingent was ineptly defeated in urban battles. "Skillful" commanders sent tanks to urban battles almost alone. As a result, tank units, especially armed with T-72 tanks, suffered insane losses.

[serezhasoldatow]

Everyone imagines himself a strategist, seeing the battle from the side. Praise to the Syrian tankers, they kept tanks that are almost rarities. And even more so fighting. Well done. For those who blaspheme-declassified an innovative product. Forward and with the song!

[da Vinci]

But the KAZ "Arena" would be very useful: after all, it is quite possible, having destroyed the missile of the TOU on approach, to destroy the launcher with a return shot, without which the shells for it become unnecessary blanks.

[donavi49]

They would be a charter would be very helpful. The interaction is there. Do not drag to the TOU position with a marching column at marching speed, for example. At the first breaks, rebuild, close with smoke, conduct harassing fire.

Again, the 2 video is the same column, one operator, one teenager TOU rocket carrier.

1 - the rocket goes into the tank, but does not notice the column, gets there. Carried. The tank noticed a gap and even shot off into the distance. However, what next? Rebuild? To regroup? Banal to close with smoke (which would save them by the way)? Disturbing fire?

2 roller - the same calculation, the same place, the same road, the same tank that traveled 400 meters. The column was gone. The tank is destroyed.

[Earnest]

Quote: professor

Quote: Amnestied

Professor, how did you determine that the Syrian tankers running away from a wrecked tank are not worried about their comrades?

They should not worry about their comrades, but save them. In general, Syrian tankers are used to draping Drapali in 1967, 1973 and 1982. Tradition however.

Quote: Amnestied

And how running away from the wrecked merkava, Israeli heroes are very, very worried about their colleagues?

And where did they run away leaving their comrades?

Everyone is running. Who else is alive ... And they remember their comrades either after salvation, or they immediately catch on the machine. And I was running ... And when the steel core from the bullet after the UAZ door and the backpack was pinned to my lower back at the end, I ran so ... that I already pissed in my pants. And not a shame not a shame. But it’s so scary that now I’m writing and my palms are sweating. Health to you, professor, at the computer.

[Stelth1985]

Fear is normal. Cowardice and panic are a crime. Everyone at the front is afraid. Especially unfired beginners. Experienced veterans are less afraid, because experience and knowledge provide support. The machine is in the hands as a continuation of you, but for a beginner it is like a club, which he does not know how to use. Many not only pissed, but also defecated with fear. There were cases during the Second World War. You’ll stay under bombardment or shelling and then you’ll pour it out of your boots! So there is nothing shameful in this. The one who screams that he is not afraid of anything is just a fool *. Courage is not for many who, under enemy fire, will save their comrades. Often after the battle or according to the situation. After all, everyone is afraid, they act - units.

FOR THE HONOR AND GLORY OF ANCESTORS!

[yanus]

I wonder how much the small-scale production of "Aren" will cost?
In combat, it would be nice to test.

[IAlex]

What is there to test ??? FMG-148 costs $ 100.000 and hits the tower from above ... The arena, even with serial production of 100 pieces, will not be cheaper than $ 200.000 and will not protect against such strikes ...

[Vadim237]

Probably 15 million per set of 1 tank.

[IAlex]

In general, a showdown in Syria will last for a long time, if the militias in other Yankee-occupied countries are not helped just as the United States is helping in Syria now ...

[xin-l]

[/ quote] You can’t argue with Rokhlin ...

Who came up with tanks in the city to fight?[/ Quote]
The problem of tanks in the city has been acute since the days of Pyrrhus and his war elephants, or rather, their inappropriate use in actual urban conditions, these poor animals became easy prey. Yes, and World War II confirmed this. In short, this problem is with a long history. We don’t learn anything. The best of course is either in direct combat or carefully camouflaged points bombing on the flanks of the enemy. But the IG does not have a front or flanks in the classical sense. So it's up to good artillery preparation.

[lis-ik]

Quote: kuz363

If the missile penetrates double protection and the thickness of the armor does not play a special role. Then, by reducing the thickness of the armor (respectively, the weight of the tank), add 3, 4, ... protection belt. Those. multi-layered "cake". True, then missiles will also be invented against such protection. And the rocket can hit the track rollers that are not protected. And the fact that "Armata" can destroy missiles and shells on approach to the tank is probably bullshit.

I read your profile and decided not to advise you to do home schoolwork, and did not set a minus. Such decisions are at the level of 6-7 grades of high school.

[Jääkorppi]

When conducting hostilities in settlements, advancing infantry units need fire support !! Tanks have always been used in cities! The question is how ?! We also used Abrams in Fallujah. It’s just one thing to gradually clean up one block after another, and another blind attack for the New Year is another (so that Pasha - Mercedes and his president would fry the devils in hell !!).

[da Vinci]

Quote: JääKorppi

When conducting hostilities in settlements, advancing infantry units need fire support !! Tanks have always been used in cities! The question is how ?! We also used Abrams in Fallujah. It’s just one thing to gradually clean up one block after another, and another blind attack for the New Year is another (so that Pasha - Mercedes and his president would fry the devils in hell !!).

Actively use RPO!

[You will]

As I heard, the T62 without an automatic loader and with open hatches well tolerated cover hits in Chechnya.

[igorka357]

I have to upset you .. about open hatches in tanks you heard tales, when a tower is pierced, an open hatch will not save you .. it is kept open only to jump out faster .. and point! And this only happens when there is a non-intense combat collision at a distance , in the conditions of urban high-rise buildings .. you will fly into the open hatch first thing!

[Stelth1985]

Yes it is. But 72ki with open hatches or rungs under the manhole cover and tied to the back of the seat, also did not tolerate this badly. There were cases when in 72k there were 12 hits and more than one penetration. Weapons: RPG-7 and SPG-9. So it’s not bad at all. If the same abrashki put in Syrian conditions, then they immediately HANA.

[strannik1985]

Nonsense, with open hatches, a blast wave flows into the BO, that is, the crew receives more than with closed hatches. Through a hole in the armor a blast wave (an explosion forming a cumulative tourniquet occurs outside, on BM armor) practically does not get into the tank (diameter 10-20 mm).

[VOLOD]

minusvoschik ..... that’s the way the battalion commander strictly punished in 89 at firing. the artillery will start to close the hatches. and she didn’t beat us, but stood nearby.

[bubla5]

Come on, modern ones will come, but we must test the equipment in combat conditions, because we need to train the Syrians, and this time

[Sterlya]

Good luck to the Syrians. It seems that the T-72s will come to them soon.

[Evgeniy30]

Quote: Forest

In a city without tanks of people, put a bunch. The same machine-gun nests become silent much faster when an 125 mm land mine arrives, rather than a grenade bursting through the enemy’s defenses.

I agree to all 100. Tanks in urban battles can and should be used. For not all targets can be crushed by infantry without heavy losses, or even less so by helicopters. It is all about tactics of using and interacting with infantry. Infantry must clean nearby houses from grenade launchers, and other tank-dangerous targets, the tank, in turn, destroy sniper nests, machine-gun points and other fortifications dangerous for infantry.

[TOR2]

Quote: Alekseev

Reinforced DZ, anti-splinter lining, "Shtora", thermal imager, anti-cumulative screens, electronic warfare in breakthrough areas where ATGM is used. Although TOW is wire-guided, she is unlikely to like the powerful EMP.

In the form in which it is now "Shtora" will be ineffective. "Red eyes" look only in one direction, and you will not constantly detonate EMP charges either.
Optics detectors our defense industry brought to mind. We put them on the tank and protect in all projections. In the event of a detector trip, highlight the dangerous direction. The question is that the projector module must be able not only to shine in all directions, but also to highlight several directions at once. In this case, the tank commander will receive information about the detection of optics. It would be nice to equip the spotlights with laser LEDs so that the buzz is not very dispelling. Our defense enterprises make such a thing in a short time.

[RoTTor]

And about heroism - not a single word, not a single example. The discussion generally rolled away

[glavnykarapuz]

Admire the courage of the Syrian tank!
Of course, they understand that the booking on their cars is very weak - over the previous years they had seen enough of the more advanced T72 burning, and in them their colleagues, friends, brothers. They all understand perfectly well that the tanks are old and the armor hardly "holds", but they have no others yet. Although it is possible and will be replenishment with more recent and perfect equipment. They are fighting for their loved ones, for their lives. If these so-called "Islamists" come (although, to be honest, these non-people have nothing to do with Islam), then all the "unfaithful" will end, with a complete end.
Here, many videos posted how Russian cars burn, like Israeli ones. Only one thing saddens, how many of the "layouts" of such an unpleasant and difficult video (only mentally ill people can easily watch it, I hope they agree?) REALIZE that inside these pieces of iron there were LIVING people, who for the most part died on these "sensational "cadres inconceivably painful and painful death (for the most part these are ordinary people, it doesn't matter, Syrians, Jews, Arabs) ???? What are you doing here in the comments "pykomerenie" such a video staged? No dirt!
P.S. I apologize for such an emotional opus, it’s just recently that such videos have started going through the roof in the comments.

[cosmos111]

can and should be modernized, the Syrian T-62 ...

as an example, the modernization of the M-60 company Textron-tank is maximally adapted for use in low-intensity conflicts and fighting in the city ...
1. Installed APU, side and rear cameras ....
2. There are screens on the sides, lattice screens on the towers to protect against RPGs ...
3.on the upgraded M-60 installed 25 mm remote-controlled automatic gun LW25 and a module with a heavy machine gun ...

[Stelth1985]

Is the goose unsinkable? Enough one mine or a shot to connect the truck scribe this mastodon. It’s worth stopping the tank, it’s a target! So all this is garbage. Everything rests only on the organization of the battle.

For the Honor and Glory of the ancestors!

[gallville]

From ptrk like tou or cornet and bassoon and modern tanks have little chance. The impact power of these complexes is too great. A tank has a chance to survive in several cases:
- pre-identified the calculation of Ptur (the tank itself or other units);
- the missile hit the frontal armor in case of the t-55 option in doubt;
- the car uses the "folds" of the terrain;
- the tank has active protection in good condition.
That is, in general, the T-55 with competent modernization at the exit will give the same result as the modern one. It is impossible to make frontal armor in a circle. Although AZ for such an old car is not economically feasible. But the reinforcement of the armor due to the additional frontal sheet, DZ, lattices, the installation of new tracks, the improvement of the SUO (without fanaticism) look more than justified in light of the spread of simpler means such as RPG-7. On the one hand, RPGs are more on the other, they are less powerful.

[You will]

Quote: professor

Quote: igorka357

I bastard nation of heroes Jews damn it!

List of Jews - Heroes of the Soviet Union [/ leech]

Often, in order to get the hero of the Soviet Union, it was necessary not to fight bravely, but simply to have good connections.

[voyaka uh]

"Without the participation of the T-62, since 1973, not one military conflict has gone.
Even then it became clear that these tanks are very vulnerable "///

In 1973, the T-62 unpleasantly hit the Israelis with its high offensive
opportunities. The 115 gun with OBPS gave reliable penetration of armor from 2 km.
But the armor of the T-62 was in turn vulnerable to 105 mm cumulative Israeli shells
tanks.
In those cases when the fire was fired from distances of more than 2 km, the Israelis who started the fire
from 3 - 3,5 km, they won. When there was a rapprochement of 1,5 - 2 km, the situation was equalized.
At close distances (less than 1 km), the T-62 OBPS pierced the Centurion tower right through.

[Boris Zidkov]

He is a computer fighter, and he is not alone. There are several of them. If you raise all his comments. A couple of years ago. this descendant of the one who hung on the aspen claimed that he served at the Black Sea Fleet for a very short time. And then he went into science. He did not finish the military school. He was most likely a jacket.

[Boris Zidkov]

And the attitude to jackets is known. But I'm interested in something else. Somehow, he so modestly said, "Grozny taught him" And then the innate Jewish modesty did not allow to continue.

[Boris Zidkov]

It turns out that a Jew-jacket from the Black Sea Fleet stormed Grozny. And in what position, in what position. Maybe that's why he served so little. After all, Grozny does not sit at a computer by storm and scribble articles and comments. After all, they can kill. Well, then "innate modesty" does not allow you to say or nothing.

[Dimon-chik-79]

What is what they are fighting! They don’t have to choose now. Before the war, it was better to feed the defense industry and upgrade equipment or purchase new ones.
About the true heroism of the tank

[Snoop]

No invulnerable tanks. Modern anti-tank systems can hit any tank. The main interaction of tanks and infantry.

[Belimbai]

"The T-62, for example, has a turret frontal armor of only 211 mm, but ....."
No need to offend my T-62 (I honestly gave the car 1,5 years in Omsk and Yurga), 240 mm, 240 ... For its time, quite decent, especially a 115 mm gun. And against the English "Chiefs" he fought the same decently ... but, but outdated ...

[voyaka uh]

In Israel, the T-62 is considered the "peak" of Soviet tank building.
Better than the T-72. (T-80 unfamiliar in the Middle East).
After the 1973 war, where there were heavy losses from the T-62,
Israeli military was afraid that Soviet designers
will do two logical things: significantly strengthen the armor and
accordingly - the motor. But instead, the USSR decided to make a AZ.
The reviews about which were in Israel are very skeptical. is he
increased rate of fire - yes, but danger also sharply increased
detonation of charges in the carousel (at T-62 shells could
rationally place and fastened their fastening and protection, which was
made on captured T-62 trophies).