Media: US Navy will conduct the first test of a missile defense system in Europe

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The US Navy will test for the first time the missile defense system in Europe, reports RIA News a Military.com resource link citing sources in the 6th navy.

Media: US Navy will conduct the first test of a missile defense system in Europe


“The USA, Canada, Spain, France, Great Britain, the Netherlands, Germany, Norway and Italy will take part in the tests. Four American ships will join the eight vessels of other countries for testing, ”the publication says.

During the test, the system will intercept the "unarmed ballistic missile fired from the British Hebrides off the coast of Scotland."

In addition, it is planned to intercept an anti-ship missile "launched at the same time from a closer distance."

It is reported that "the tests will be carried out to work out the coordination of actions against several missiles in the framework of the concept of a unified air defense and missile defense system."

According to the resource, “automated command and control systems will be involved, such as the Aegis ballistic missile tracking system installed on more than 30 US Navy combat ships and the SM-3 guided missile.”

Recall, the United States and European allies have been developing European missile defense systems for more than 10 years, citing the threat posed by Iran.
  • AP Photo / Joseph Nair
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  1. +36
    18 October 2015 11: 54
    2025 year. Family in Syria.
    -Dad, are there any Americans?
    - No, son, it's fantastic !!!
    1. +11
      18 October 2015 12: 02
      And on their cunning missile defense we will run up against KhitroProtivoPROM (KSPRO as part of the Strongly Secret Forces (SZS) of the Russian Federation)! laughing
      soldier
      1. +3
        19 October 2015 00: 28
        Tests are some kind of frivolous, a cabal. There is no need to turn to Vladimir Vladimirovich - you shoot, we defend ourselves, and we shoot unexpectedly, we looked, then each eliminates the imperfections. The Baltic countries can be used as a landfill - Europe is all the same make-believe, and the infrastructure has been teased, it's not so bad.
        1. 0
          19 October 2015 18: 14
          A very real topic, I would not be surprised if it will be embodied in the near future.
    2. +7
      18 October 2015 12: 03
      So that they fail these trials with a roar and do not escape shame from the world community laughing
      1. +2
        18 October 2015 12: 13
        Blessed is he who believes. The main thing in this case is to choose the right faith.
        1. +1
          18 October 2015 13: 38
          Quote: captain
          .Main in this case, choose the right faith.

          Faith in US Orthodox and Russian Army! And there are EW and other beautiful troubles for the SGA!
          1. +3
            18 October 2015 15: 20
            I dare to correct you, we have about 100mln. Orthodox. (I can not vouch for the accuracy. Our Orthodox Church writes to the Orthodox all Russians, Ukrainians ... and Muslims about 30mln.) And there are Catholics. Protestants, Buddhists, Jews ... and the sea of ​​all sects.
      2. 0
        18 October 2015 20: 55
        What are you !!! Let them succeed as planned! Let them be confident in their ability to repel a missile strike of monstrous mass in two whole missiles!
        Py. Sy. If I’m not mistaken, a missile salvo at AUG of at least 20 missiles.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. +34
      18 October 2015 12: 07
      I have a suspicion that when Caliber worked from the Caspian, more than one tie was eaten in the EuroPro and Pentagon marquees, realizing that the time and money spent on this missile defense was all in vain! And now they are bustling with their teachings trying to prove to everyone that the missile defense system is a thing in order to blur the eyes of the layman and taxpayers, deep down realizing that they are all, vaunted brigadier generals of glorious NATO forces, in a deep ass! laughing
      1. +15
        18 October 2015 12: 15
        "What a waste of time and money on this anti-missile crap - all in vain!" ///

        Why in vain? Both Caliber and Tomahawk are subsonic winged
        missiles, bring down their good air defense is quite real.
        If the start is detected and monitored, then the simplest thing is
        raise fighters. But there are also anti-missiles.
        Both Russians and Americans.
        These missiles are going to test in Europe.
        Although the main task of missile defense is not a missile defense, but a medium-range missile.
        They are much harder to shoot down. Mostly created against them
        Aegis in the USA and S-500 in Russia.
        1. +2
          18 October 2015 12: 22
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Although the main task of missile defense is not medium-range missiles, but medium-range missiles, they are much more difficult to shoot down. Mostly against them created Aegis in the USA and S-500 in Russia.


          With KR it is clear, especially with subsonic

          And how realistic is it to bring down maneuvering ballistic warheads?

          And in general, is it real? And how much anti-missile is needed for this?


          1. +7
            18 October 2015 13: 39
            Well, let's say, even an inconspicuous supersonic "Onyx" will not knock ABM AUG, from the word "in any way." The Kh-15P with a metallized mesh coating also almost cannot be knocked down, although it is a product of Gorby's time. Ashton Carter grilled in 2013 that when the Aegis X-15 radar is detected from 25 km in terms of the parameter there will not be enough time to pray hi
            A non-maneuvering BB, especially if it is an RIAC, and not an ICBM - does shoot down the Aegis, in terms of BB an ICBM is much worse than a "triumph". And "Vulcan", "Granite", Kh-31PD, all the more so - "Onyx", with EMIBCH, and, if it really sucks - "The bright future of mankind" calmly pierce the Jewish pathetic cumpol, especially from the Mediterranean. Also a limited system - against MLRS and outdated OTR.
            "Standards" are good to hit in the active area. SM-2, of course, SM-3 is not suitable for this. Yes, and S-300 / S-400 / S-500 too, if only because several BBs will shoot down in one bottle. This is the whole juice of Triumph's accommodation in Syria. It is also needed in the zone of Pakistan, Egypt and Iran in order to neutralize all the macaques with a nuclear grenade.
            Potentially, the Saudi (why Iran) have BB packs and Chinese (officially) 2500km rockets.
            And the Sixth Fleet - it does get to know the Titanic, the Backfires of the "Putin Express" and the Severodvinsk, so counting on it as a missile defense system is very clear.
            1. 0
              19 October 2015 02: 16
              Colleague, and what is the role of the mesh metallized coating on the X-15P?
              Radar Absorption?
              Stealth through ionization?

              Sorry, I'm in this matter - hello, concrete ...
              1. +1
                19 October 2015 03: 28
                Mesh metallized coating scatters the X-ray radiation by 90%, the round wire in the section gives the effect of an angular reflector at only one point.
                I’ll throw it on RM, since you’re unlikely to come here yet.
          2. +7
            18 October 2015 13: 56
            for bulvas "
            "How realistic is it to shoot down maneuvering ballistic warheads?" ///

            If you are about ICBMs, then today it’s almost impossible to bring them down, even
            if they do not maneuver.
            "Almost" because there is a battery in Alaska, which was taught to shoot down at least ICBMs,
            flying across the pacific ocean. Those. from China to California. But efficiency
            about 50%. Those. one missile needs to launch 2-3 missiles.
            Development seems to be stopped.
            If you are talking about short-range ballistic missiles of the Iskander type (low trajectory), then this is also unrealistic.
            But developments against such missiles are going intensively.
            Aegis knocks down medium-range balloons well in a high section of the trajectory.
            Russia does not have such missiles (under a treaty), but Iran, Pakistan, India, and China have plenty.
            1. +1
              18 October 2015 14: 28
              Actually, that's what I said, dear voyaka uh. RIAC Aegis shoots down. It's very sour with an ICBM. With maneuvering BB and inconspicuous supersonic anti-ship missiles - nothing. "Triumph" is still working on ICBMs (BB at 6800m / s during exercises). And if ICBMs of high energy and flat trajectory, like "Voevoda", you will shoot down non-maneuvering crap, although half of them are still maneuvering, well, the LC tueva honna.
              1. 0
                18 October 2015 14: 48
                "Triumph still works on ICBMs" ////

                Then you got excited wink . S-400 and medium-range ballistic missiles
                can only bring down on approach, on the descent.
                Here is the newly developed S-500, like, maybe
                Shoot down medium BRs high in space.
                About ICBMs ... don't even talk. And such trials never
                did not have. And such targets do not exist.
        2. +1
          18 October 2015 12: 25
          caliber subsonic rocket? And you compare the caliber speed and the tomahawk, who is faster?
          1. +3
            18 October 2015 16: 19
            Quote: Myth
            And you compare the caliber speed and the tomahawk, who is faster?
        3. +7
          18 October 2015 12: 29
          There is a slight nuance that everyone has noticed - the Caliber missile system looks like an ordinary 12-meter cargo sea container! This camouflage can be discreetly on a ship, in a railway carriage, caravan, and even on an airplane.
          There are a myriad of such containers in any seaport. Determining which of the hundreds of containers the Caliber complex is installed inside is practically impossible. Unlike Tomogavka, when we know in advance where they are - here! And this, as you know, absolutely changes the rules of the game - no plane can catch it! The caliber easily affects the entire missile defense system, and then the BR can also be used.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +14
            18 October 2015 12: 45
            Quote: Finches
            The Caliber missile system looks like a regular twelve-meter cargo sea container


            This is an extreme case, which, most likely, will not be

            They will not start a war between Russia and NATO, at least today there are no such idiots in the world.

            Syria, missiles from the Caspian Sea have shown that Russia is too strong in conventional weapons to communicate with us over Ukraine.

            You can forget about the threat of direct war.

            But this does not mean that they will stop spoiling us wherever possible.

            In addition, Germany, Europe will not quarrel with the United States over Russia.
            The slightest attempt to disobey - and the US is hitting Europe very painfully, recall the gigantic fines on French banks, the Volkswagen case (is there a connection with the recent launch of an engine manufacturing plant in Russia?).

            Such strikes interrupt all the benefits of cooperation with Russia, practical Germans value everything perfectly

            Russia has the only way out - to build a strong, full-fledged economy based on science and technology, and no one will help itself
            1. 0
              18 October 2015 13: 47
              Quote: bulvas
              But this does not mean that they will stop spoiling us wherever possible.

              The impudent Saxons always shit wherever they went, and Russia is always designated the enemy and the number one target! Maybe we should tell the "partners" that at the first attempt to attack Russia, they will be eliminated as terrorists !?
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. +1
                18 October 2015 16: 07
                Quote: Tol100v
                Maybe we should tell the "partners" that at the first attempt to attack Russia, they will be eliminated as terrorists !?



                And they will liquidate us as whom?

                Parity has not been canceled

                Even if after this we survive, weaken so much that Lithuania and Poland will be happy to grab pieces

            2. +7
              18 October 2015 13: 52
              That's right, just raise and develop the economy, the defense industry,
              Russia has no other way, another "enemy lyrics".
              I am always depressed: in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs there are always smart, competent, responsible, etc., etc., the blat and kinship are minimal,
              but as soon as you look inside the country, it’s scary: brother-in-law is brother-in-law and further on the list.
              Saying: when one smart worthy relative, this is an exception to the rule, the rest is a high-ranking mediocrity, the norm.
              And it is difficult to fight this "mold", and young people without "rear" and lysopodia, our modern "Tsiolkovskys and Stolypins" work quietly, they develop ayk'yu, who escapes from the country, who drinks, who else is busy with something, ... ..


              Yeah, it turned out somehow gloomy, but
              I really love my country and I am bitter that our domestic policy and strategy lags far behind foreign.
              As soon as we catch up, not a single trash will dare to bark at us anymore.
          3. 0
            18 October 2015 21: 36
            Quote: Finches
            There is a slight nuance that everyone has noticed - the Caliber missile system looks like an ordinary 12-meter cargo sea container! This camouflage can be discreetly on a ship, in a railway carriage, caravan, and even on an airplane.
            There are a myriad of such containers in any seaport. Determining which of the hundreds of containers the Caliber complex is installed inside is practically impossible. Unlike Tomogavka, when we know in advance where they are - here! And this, as you know, absolutely changes the rules of the game - no plane can catch it! The caliber easily affects the entire missile defense system, and then the BR can also be used.


            I am looking at your fevered thought, which clearly arose after watching a stupid (in the sense of really stupid, designed for complete nerds) advertising of the Club complex in containers, answer me this question: "What prevents a potential enemy from placing a Tomahawk in a container?"
            And in the same way, according to your own logic: "It is almost impossible to determine in which of the hundreds of containers the Tomahawk complex is installed inside ... And this, as you understand, absolutely changes the rules of the game - no plane will have time to intercept! easily strikes the entire missile defense system of Russia, and then the ballistic missile can be used. "
            Or are you amers for complete idiots thinks?
            Don't you think that in almost 100 years of confrontation with Russia, they did not learn our logic and did not learn to think about the fact that "for each hard-to-reach buttock there is a penis with a variable change in frictions"?


            By the way, about customs, container inspection points in ports in the know?
            Absolutely all containers crossing the border at customs points, including in ports - are X-rayed.
            On which absolutely everything will be visible.
            so don’t dream that there may be military containers on the territory of the countries of the potential enemy. And hit suddenly.
            it's just nonsense to put it mildly a complete idiot.
            And they drew this advertisement too. For an unviable idea. Basically. From the word: No way!
        4. The comment was deleted.
      2. +3
        18 October 2015 14: 23
        the joke was that they never saw the launch and movement of our cruise missiles, and another serious problem was that the launch was carried out from ships that, in principle, were not considered as launch platforms, and we have more and more of them. The missile defense was built against ballistic missiles, and then cruise missiles, and also hypersound at the exit. The value of missile defense is reset, and a huge amount of money has been spent. The only trouble is that we have few of these missiles, we need a lot more, and they are expensive. I feel that in the next couple of decades a fundamentally new weapon will appear and that whoever possesses it will rule the world. God grant that we become this lucky.
        1. -2
          18 October 2015 21: 52
          Quote: Maxom75
          the joke was that they never saw the launch and movement of our cruise missiles, and another serious problem was that the launch was carried out from ships that, in principle, were not considered as launch platforms ...


          Did you come up with this yourself?

          The 21631 and 11661K projects were initially calculated under Caliber ...
          Built under Caliber and armed with Caliber.

          D, B!
    5. +8
      18 October 2015 12: 21
      Another scandal in the usa, the drone operator revealed secret information:
      1. +3
        18 October 2015 12: 29
        Against anyone interested .. ??? Our missile defense will soon (or already) be near the American continent and on both sides!
  2. +2
    18 October 2015 11: 57
    I wonder what results will be achieved. Effective program or not.
    Yes, and the Strategic Missile Forces with VKS note ... wink
    1. +1
      18 October 2015 12: 15
      Quote: Vladimir
      I wonder what results will be achieved. Effective program or not.

      ----------------------------
      They will achieve something, in any case, taxpayers need to sing something, what they spent money on ... Well, it's good for ours, they will also study what kind of animal it is and what its capabilities are now ... But then again, interception of a ballistic missile and it is not known which "anti-ship", most likely subsonic ...
  3. +3
    18 October 2015 11: 58
    I hope our scouts have already pricked up their ears.
  4. +1
    18 October 2015 11: 58
    Look there, behave yourself ... otherwise we will conduct some tests in Europe
    1. 0
      18 October 2015 22: 41
      it will be funny if we were the first to destroy these missiles ...
  5. +2
    18 October 2015 12: 02
    The Americans asked ... our launches of "Caliber", before that they also actively tested the participation of our aviation in Syria. What is left for them to do? Just carry out some kind of testing.
  6. +3
    18 October 2015 12: 02
    Yeah, that means there were doubts about the effectiveness of missile defense.
  7. +7
    18 October 2015 12: 04
    Your "charges" have already experienced a strike on the Saudi Arabian Air Force base, with Scud missiles from Yemen, only three were shot down, the rest reached their goal and destroyed a "bunch" of planes, helicopters and officers, so that the flag is in your hands and anchor on back
  8. +2
    18 October 2015 12: 04
    Against Iran, the whole world is holding idiots, it’s a no brainer that Euro-missile defense is designed against Russian weapons.
    During the test, the system will intercept the "unarmed ballistic missile fired from the British Hebrides off the coast of Scotland."
    Against Iskander, Yars and Topol
    In addition, it is planned to intercept an anti-ship missile "launched at the same time from a closer distance."
    Against "Caliber" and anti-ship missiles "Granit" with special warheads.
  9. +6
    18 October 2015 12: 11
    The main thing is that the NTO workers did not forget to install the beacon on the rockets. And so they would ask if we would send them a caliber or whatever they would. They will not catch, well, then I'm sorry.
  10. +3
    18 October 2015 12: 11
    Quote: herruvim
    2025 year. Family in Syria.
    -Dad, are there any Americans?
    - No, son, it's fantastic !!!

    wink
  11. +2
    18 October 2015 12: 14
    During the test, the system will intercept the "unarmed ballistic missile fired from the British Hebrides off the coast of Scotland."

    You could have asked us too. For reliability "Poplar" or "Kolibr" would be suitable.
  12. +4
    18 October 2015 12: 17
    Yes, let them try it ... after the launch of the Caliber ... it became quite clear ... how to suppress the missile defense of a potential enemy in a first strike ... even at the stage of the "non-nuclear" phase of hostilities ... The answer has already been given .. ...
    And the possibility of placement in an ordinary sea container ... makes senseless attempts to detect missiles ... containers can be everywhere ... for example, in Cuba))
  13. +5
    18 October 2015 12: 17
    They will not succeed until the Ukrainian "flagship" Sogaydachny is invited to the exercise.
    1. +4
      18 October 2015 12: 27
      He will not swim to them.
  14. EFA
    +5
    18 October 2015 12: 18
    Teachings about ... I’m wondering, will it be full-scale tests, with direction finding, capture and destruction / interception of a real rocket, or just a system simulation?

    If, nevertheless, a real rocket, then there is one thing but - it is not ours. And tweak a successful interception like two fingers.

    Probably they will do a simulation, because no one will approve of the flight of a real rocket through the EU. And the "scared" Putin western vegetables are told that the armor is strong and our tanks are fast, and everyone will calm down on this.
    1. +1
      18 October 2015 16: 12
      I agree with you. And plus they know in advance where the rocket will fly from. After firing from the Caspian, they need to launch 20-30 pieces at once simultaneously, and even from different directions. Then it will become clear what the missile defense is worth. Not in the sense of money, but in the sense of its effectiveness. After all, if the Russians are brought to war, they will not shoot at one racket, but immediately in one gulp. Here a completely different calico is drawn ...
  15. +5
    18 October 2015 12: 20
    In this case, the conditional target will move along a previously known route at a given speed and the trajectory will pass over the missile defense ship. The Americans already had this and the result was "impressive" lol
    With today's technologies, only one or two objects can be protected from a nuclear attack (such as a city or a relatively small area), because You can calculate the trajectory of a warhead designed for this particular target and bring it down. But you cannot protect, even hypothetically large territories from such an attack. Especially not with one missile, but with several. So all this mouse fuss is for the electorate and its money lol
    They will knock down, they will say that the missile defense system is reliable and will be like a golden billion will continue to cut the money of unsuspecting defenseless citizens and play on ordinary human fears request
    Personally, my opinion hi
    Substation we have such an area is Moscow (well, also, purely hypothetically, a couple of cities in the Urals with their importance in terms of science and the development of weapons), the FSA has its own "Fort-Knox", and for Eurocaps you can play fairy tales with the protection of ALL (! ) Europe from Iran lol (read - Russia) ...
    And after all! lol No words ... request
    1. +1
      18 October 2015 12: 27
      Quote: Rurikovich
      , the FSA has its own "Fort-Knox", and for the Eurolochs you can play fairy tales with the protection of ALL (!) Europe from Iran lol (read - Russia) ...
      There are no words request

      Well, it remains to be seen whether it is more difficult to breed Euro-suckers than Euro-crests or not. smile
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +2
        18 October 2015 12: 42
        http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2015/203/lbgi538.jpg
        So first
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. +1
        18 October 2015 12: 45
        It's Easy!
        http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2015/342/tgkf788.jpg
    2. +1
      18 October 2015 15: 29
      "because you can calculate the trajectory of the warhead intended for this particular target and shoot it down" ///

      Comp instantly calculates ANY trajectory of the BR, from where and where
      they didn’t let her in. Aegis is stationed on almost all US Navy ships.
      Ships patrol in different seas and are connected by a single information network.
      The trajectory of the rocket will be transmitted to all of them and will produce shots
      successively several ships closest: if the previous one missed,
      next shoots. The probability of hitting a single missile is very high.
      With a massive salvo, of course, some BR will break through. But you have to start small ... wink
      1. +3
        18 October 2015 16: 51
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Ships patrol in different seas and are connected by a single information network.

        When the grid "falls" the efficiency of the system will fall next. If the trajectory is perfect, you can calculate it, but if the warhead goes to a broken trajectory. The interceptor launched earlier will need more fuel, and all calculations will immediately shift.
      2. 0
        18 October 2015 21: 06
        I am not very sure about the preservation of the information network in the event of real use of nuclear weapons. Well, except in the form of programs on the Morse code. hi
  16. +3
    18 October 2015 12: 20
    Surrounded by demons. Impudence began.
  17. +5
    18 October 2015 12: 24
    Of course, this was to be expected.
    Peace-loving Americans need at least something to reassure in the trash Geyropeytsev who have done in panties.
    Well, at least create the illusion of missile defense.
    And then after a missile attack by the Caspian flotilla, they somehow took it in Geyrop and carried it with a ruler on the map, and what they saw as a result was clearly not encouraging.
    By nature, I’m not at all bloodthirsty, but what a fool you need to seriously think that some overseas state, thoroughly showing its treacherous and corrupt nature, will protect this idyllic (though they themselves decided so) Geyropu, with all her homo-parades from Russia, if such a need arises.
    Although what kind of reason can there be if the concept of managing a normal majority of an abnormal, sick, degenerate minority is officially adopted in their society?
  18. +2
    18 October 2015 12: 24
    The result is known in advance. In the media there will be reports that everything went more than successfully. But in reality ... As a matter of fact, only intelligence and specialists will know. Both ours and theirs.
  19. +2
    18 October 2015 12: 34
    This is only to calm the stupid Balts, and to slow down Poland, which begs money to the tune of the threat of Greater Russia.
  20. +2
    18 October 2015 12: 35
    Quote: herruvim
    -Dad, are there any Americans?
    - No, son, it's fantastic !!!

    Unfortunately, this is a reality. But, the US must be destroyed!
  21. +2
    18 October 2015 12: 44
    Will we be asked to fire Iskander, or only Caliber? Actually!
  22. +4
    18 October 2015 12: 50
    "US Navy will conduct first missile defense tests in Europe"...

    Laugh, don’t laugh, but the application is serious ... Most likely, the Caspian salute is a feat for this ...

    All that remains for us is to track the results in all possible ways, and draw conclusions ... Yes, and it would not hurt ourselves sometimes to conduct serious exercises with air defense-aerospace defense ...

    PS I almost blurted out at the amerikosov: Do you want to practice on our "parcels" ???
  23. +3
    18 October 2015 13: 08
    Quote: Myth
    caliber subsonic rocket? And you compare the caliber speed and the tomahawk, who is faster?

    You're right. "Caliber" is faster. At 30 km / h ...

    Quote: bulvas
    But how realistic is it to bring down maneuvering ballistic warheads? And in general, is it real? And how much anti-missile is needed for this?

    Maneuvering is not yet in nature. Only tested. How real? Realistically, but depends on many factors? Depends on how many goals, where to shoot down. Also on the probability of hitting the target by the missile defense itself. Depending on this, the number of missiles is considered ...

    Quote: Rurikovich
    In this case, the conditional target will move along a previously known route at a given speed and the trajectory will pass over the missile defense ship. The Americans already had this and the result was "impressive

    And what happens in our exercises isn’t it? Calculations "well, they just don't know at all" from which side will the goal come, or an approximate time? especially if testing is underway? In both cases, the technique should work. But from how it works - and there will be results

    Quote: Rurikovich
    With today's technologies, only one or two objects can be protected from a nuclear attack (such as a city or a relatively small area), because You can calculate the trajectory of a warhead designed for this particular target and bring it down. But you cannot protect, even hypothetically large territories from such an attack. Especially not with one missile, but with several. So all this mouse fuss is for the electorate and its money

    You forgot to add one word MASSED. But no missile defense can protect against it. A potential adversary of this missile defense system in Europe has only ballistic missile defense and the absence of nuclear warheads. In any case, the number of missiles that are in Romania and on the ships is enough to thwart Iran’s missile attack ...

    Quote: EFA
    Teachings about ... I’m wondering, will it be full-scale tests, with direction finding, capture and destruction / interception of a real rocket, or just a system simulation?

    The real one. What is the point of doing virtual when already tried in real life.

    Quote: EFA
    They will probably make a simulation, because no one will approve the passage of a real rocket through the EU.

    And read the article more closely? There it is clearly written where the rocket will be launched from ...

    Quote: silberwolf88
    Yes, let them try it ... after the launch of the Caliber ... it became quite clear ... how to suppress the missile defense of a potential enemy in a first strike ... even at the stage of the "non-nuclear" phase of hostilities ... The answer has already been given .. ...

    Yah? Is it really given? Or do we want to consider what is given? ISIS did not have both air defense systems and radars to detect and destroy these missiles. And based on the fact that the missiles passed through non-air defense zones, profound conclusions are already being drawn that we will suppress missile defense at a time ??? Oh well. To draw conclusions from the wrong postulate is dashing, the main thing is that self-esteem is raised to an unattainable height !!!
    1. +3
      18 October 2015 17: 37
      Volodya, and what would I do without you? At least you can talk on the merits!
      Quote: Old26
      Maneuvering is not yet in nature. Only tested.
      There is. If I find it, I will even show a photo "with a deviating toe", but that was at the dawn ... And now:
      The features of the Bulava include a significant reduction in the active flight phase (up to 4 times compared to the previous generation missiles) and the use of maneuvering warheads... On this basis, the Bulava can be classified as a new class of "quasi-ballistic" missiles.
      As a payload, the rocket carries six (maybe up to 10) hypersonic maneuvering individual guidance nuclear blocks with a total weight of 1,15 tons with a capacity of 150 kt each, at a range of at least 8000 km. http://www.kapyar.ru/index.php?pg=264
      By the way, the same combat equipment is on the R-24 and R-26.

      Quote: Old26
      Depending on this, the number of missiles is considered ...
      Right But an average of 2 to 6.
      Quote: Old26
      And what happens in our exercises isn’t it?
      Do you have experience of participating in missile defense / air defense exercises? From my humble point of view, I can say that I knew the interval of launching the CD at us, from which direction they would approach, the number of missiles in a salvo. Further - the target distribution between the ships of the KUG / KPUG and work along the lines. The theme of the exercise: "Reflection of enemy air attack attacks, attacking the ships of the KUG from different heights and directions." There were, as a rule, 6 missiles and 4 ships. At the same time, 2-3 RCs were shot down by "Hurricanes", the rest was cleaned up by "Dagger" (stood on "Fearless", for which he was nicknamed "the cleaner"). SAM consumption: 2 per target.
      And here the Yankes "seven ships" will try to shoot down as much as 7 anti-ship missile! Well, I won't say anything about BR. No experience.
      Quote: Old26
      MASSED. But no missile defense can protect against it.
      Yes, it will be difficult. But some will be shot down by aviation, some by zonal, some by object, and finally by air defense of self-defense. Something will take away the electronic warfare, something will burn the EMP ... So, "our hope for the best! Run, save yourself, free child"! (C) -c / f Riga c / st "Devil's Servants in the Devil's Mill" 1972 !)
      Quote: Old26
      what we suppress missile defense at a time ??? Oh well.

      Well, of course not "at one time", but we will suppress. And don't even hesitate! And besides, it is not at all necessary to physically suppress it (although this is the best of the options!) Electronic warfare means, missiles with EMP, RDG actions (a heavy sniper rifle from 2,0 km removes the RLP, and there are also RPGs and much more !), PRL missiles, and the unforgettable MLRS! And you can also remember that in our orbit hangs out "exclusively for peaceful, scientific purposes!"
      Thank you for the pleasant communication! hi
  24. +4
    18 October 2015 13: 09
    Quote: silberwolf88
    And the possibility of placement in an ordinary sea container ... makes senseless attempts to detect missiles ... containers can be everywhere ... for example, in Cuba))

    Having proposed this weapon system, we ourselves opened the "Pandora's Box". And as always, we are considering only one option that is beneficial for us. Or for our allies. That is, an option when the enemy does not take ABSOLUTELY any action. This one is actually called the Giveaway Game. And to build plans on this option is at least stupid. Ours as soon as not tried to push "Caliber" and "uranium" into the market. But alas, for some reason, with the exception of 4-6 countries, they did not buy, especially in such a container version. Don't know why? But the answer lies on the surface ...

    Quote: raid14
    Against Iran, of course, the whole world is being held for idiots, a no brainer that the European missile defense system is intended against Russian weapons. During the system check, an interception of "an unarmed ballistic missile fired from the British Hebrides range off the coast of Scotland" will be carried out. Against Iskander, Yars and Topol In addition, it is planned to intercept an anti-ship missile, "fired at the same time from a closer range." Against "Caliber" and anti-ship missiles "Granit" with special warheads.

    Well, if you can shoot a missile with a maximum speed of 3,5 km / s, which goes at a speed of 7,5 km / s - you need to set PURE GOLD MONUMENT TO TEN HUMAN GROWTH.

    And of course against the "Granit" - this is actual, although it is already on the verge of withdrawal from service. Against Caliber - not relevant, against Onyx - yes, relevant. But there is no need for European missile defense against these missiles. As well as against Iskander ...
    1. +5
      18 October 2015 17: 53
      Quote: Old26
      Having proposed this weapon system, we ourselves opened the "Pandora's Box".
      I found a picture of a maneuvering BB, I hang it:
    2. 0
      18 October 2015 21: 12
      Quote: Old26
      Well, if you can rocket with a maximum speed of 3,5 km / s to bring down a rocket that goes at a speed of 7,5 km / s

      Of course, there isn’t a catch-up course, but a collision course with a carefully calculated rocket flight path is quite.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. +5
    18 October 2015 13: 21
    [quote = bulvas] [quote = Zyablitsov]
    Russia has the only way out - to build a strong, full-fledged economy based on science and technology, moreover, no one will help herself [/ quote]


    And this should be done as quickly as possible, as we say "yesterday". If we don't have time, it will be very hard.
  27. yan 2015
    +1
    18 October 2015 13: 33
    the first .. we will think the last. and the old woman is a bummer in the form of our EW Kraukha.)
  28. +2
    18 October 2015 13: 34
    Do not flatter yourself like that, fellow citizens. Mattresses are good techies, and now how many of ours work for any x. So it's not just about cutting the budget. the thing is that they are trying to deprive us of the possibility of a retaliatory strike. And this is not a joke. Amers may have an illusion (or maybe an opportunity) of an impunity with a lightning sudden attack on Russia.
  29. +1
    18 October 2015 13: 34
    We, too, could participate, for our part, so to speak ...
  30. 0
    18 October 2015 13: 40
    As if to us, accidentally didn’t fly, but you have to answer !!!!
  31. 0
    18 October 2015 13: 50
    Quote: yan 2015
    the first .. we will think the last. and the old woman is a slammer in the form of our EW Kraukha

    Rubella is not a panacea for everything ...
  32. 0
    18 October 2015 14: 09
    and if we make joint launches ... Russia sends, but the USA intercepts and vice versa. It’s all useful.
  33. +1
    18 October 2015 14: 31
    Quote: PTS-m
    and if we carry out joint launches ... Russia sends, and the USA intercepts

    They at one time purchased from us air-launched anti-ship missiles X-31 in the version of targets MA-31. And experienced.
  34. 0
    18 October 2015 15: 15
    Quote: Finches
    The Caliber missile system looks like an ordinary XNUMX-meter cargo sea container!

    ... you wanted to say a 20-foot container (approx. 6 meters length)
    1. +1
      18 October 2015 15: 33
      Not certainly in that way.
      PU, together with the control system, is located in a standard 40-foot container, just about 12 meters.
      But this is a simplified export modification and it is called not Caliber, but CLUB.
  35. +1
    18 October 2015 15: 21
    Colleagues
    In my opinion, everything is simpler and more cynical!
    Against the background of the combat use of the "Caliber" complex, the introduction of the S-400 air defense system, the development of the S-500 air defense system, the presence of Iskander complexes in the troops, amers and their bedding must justify themselves / report (formally, of course) to the voters on the money spent on outdated missile defense. Show the "mega efficiency" of the very useless missile defense system.
    This is a PR move, no more!
    p \ s Based on open sources (of course they lie), the S-400 can shoot down satellites in low orbits, and the S-500 will be able to shoot down satellites in medium orbits. Proceeding from this, it turns out that when working together with the S-400 and S-500, Amer’s communications satellites and GPS can be lowered to sinful ground, and Iskander can crush command posts. Thus, it is stupid to dazzle the mega precise \ modern armament of amers and their litter.
    Of course, everything is not so simple, and my whole post is solely an assumption based solely on open information.
    1. +3
      18 October 2015 17: 13
      Quote: olegfbi
      , The S-400 can shoot down satellites in low orbits, and the S-500 will be able to shoot down satellites in medium orbits. Based on this, it turns out that when working together with the S-400 and S-500, Amer’s communications satellites and GPS can be lowered onto sinful earth

      Then we will be tormented to remove all this garbage from orbit. It’s just that several warheads filled with lithium, sodium or cesium are launched into orbit. The work of the warhead is shown on the stand. And until all this economy settles, no signals from orbit will be available. And no S-500 is needed.
      1. +2
        18 October 2015 17: 20
        I'm not a pro in technology, probably you're right!
        Probably made an accent in the wrong place!
        The main idea: Amers, together with bedding, need to show taxpayers the "mega efficiency" of the very same missile defense system that nobody needs.
  36. +5
    18 October 2015 15: 22
    The missile defense issue is very interesting, complex, multifaceted and extremely ambiguous for both sides of a hypothetical conflict! Ideally, one or several (a little) missiles of a different class are taken and, in a calm environment, at a training ground, are destroyed by one or two missiles. Beauty!
    But, for a second, imagine a huge theater of war: massive strikes by all types of missiles, from different directions, from unexpected points, at different heights. Plus a complete set of electronic warfare, anti-radar missiles, aviation, sabotage groups, scorching submarines from under water ! Presented?
    I don’t think that even Pentagon supercomputers will be able to take into account ALL the conditions of this task with a lot of unknowns. There will be a global valvo with a desert instead of a happy end ...
    ... And the last to meet on the battlefield is a simple Russian Vanya in dusty camouflage, tired, with a loyal faithful Kalash and a rather thin-toothed gay man John from Arkansas or Nevada, with a super-assault rifle and longing in his eyes ...
    I believe that at this stage, missile defense can be relatively effective only in regional conflicts of low and medium intensity. IMHO ...
    1. 0
      18 October 2015 16: 00
      The forecast is gloomy, but the finale is encouraging, drinks our Ivan will survive everything.
    2. +3
      18 October 2015 19: 25
      All right! plus. In the first hour of bd the whole system pro will crumble. air defense will remain without satellite prompts, at the level of individual divisions. Famous F22 and T50 are equal in effectiveness to Su27 and F16. the pilot will fly with a card on his knee, etc. If only this hour does not miss. As for missile defense, it is still at the stage of development and testing, what can I say about it. We know the desires, and when the result is, God forbid that I had to evaluate.
  37. 0
    18 October 2015 15: 55
    Quote: olegfbi
    In my opinion, everything is simpler and more cynical! Against the background of the combat use of the Caliber complex, the introduction of the S-400 air defense system, the development of the S-500 air defense system, the presence of Iskander complexes in the troops, amers and their bedding need to justify themselves / report back (formally, of course ) in front of voters for the money spent on the outdated missile defense system. Show the "mega efficiency" of the very useless missile defense system.

    Do you think that the Americans do not need missile defense? Report on money, so they report annually, and nothing. Moreover, give them money to expand missile defense, the construction of additional ships with missile defense? Do you think this is a formality? do not consider the adversary to be stupid, who only does that he is cutting money. For what this system is created and created for - it is sufficient. Iran has not yet, and no intercontinental missiles are expected in the coming years. And in order to cover Europe, a complex in Romania and a promising complex in Poland are enough, plus a French complex, plus French, Italian and English anti-missile ships and American ships in the Mediterranean Sea and the Baltic.

    Our S-500 complex is still virtual, no one knows when it will be put into service. Therefore, he is not here in business. Let the S-400 be delivered in the required quantities for now ... And the Iskander-European missile defense systems are not against them ...

    Quote: olegfbi
    This is a PR move, no more!

    Of course PR move. After all, the system is American. And they can only have a splurge and PR-actions ... They don’t have reality

    Quote: olegfbi
    Based on open sources (of course they lie), the S-400 can shoot down satellites in low orbits, and the S-500 will be able to shoot down satellites in medium orbits.

    Where do you find such sources? Only in the Russian-language Wikipedia can this be read ... On more serious resources such nonsense can not be found

    Quote: sounddoc
    The missile defense issue is very interesting, complex, multifaceted and extremely ambiguous for both sides of a hypothetical conflict! Ideally, one or more (a few) missiles of a different class are taken and in a calm environment, at a training ground, destroyed by one or two missiles. Beauty! But, for a second, imagine a huge theater of operations: massive attacks by all types of missiles, from different directions, from unexpected points, at different heights. Plus a complete set of electronic warfare equipment, anti-radar missiles, aviation, sabotage groups, scorching submarines from under water! Presented? I don’t think that even Pentagon supercomputers can take into account ALL conditions of this task with many unknowns. There will be a worldwide fall with the desert instead of a happy end ...

    Does not exist and in the foreseeable future such a missile defense system cannot exist. It is designed only for countries with small missile capabilities, while not having strategic aviation and SSBNs.
    1. +1
      18 October 2015 18: 30
      The Americans need missile defense, it is very necessary! They dream of an effective missile defense! True and not at all ironic.
      I emphasize again, I only read data from open sources, these data, by definition, contain very little reliable information! It cannot be otherwise, for real TTX are state secrets.
      As for PR amers, it’s in their blood! Yes, they create a lot, a lot of effective systems, not just military ones, that’s true! But the truth is also different - in view of the huge budget, cuts, interests of corporations, speeches of greens, human rights defenders ... many decisions are made with a detriment to efficiency! Well, for example, Americans in their missile defense are trying to contact (or sooooo close) to hit a ballistic target! Giant funds and efforts are being spent on this task, and no one has yet seen a real result. In contrast, our A-135 is equipped with tactical special ammunition and it does not need to get \ contact with the target at all! It is much cheaper and more efficient! Yes, there are negative factors for the use of tactical special ammunition, but an explosion of 10 - 20 kt in the air, at a distance from the protected object, it is much better than a couple of megatons at the object itself.
      Of course, all this makes sense only in a nuclear conflict, and in other conditions a strategic missile defense. need not.
  38. +1
    18 October 2015 16: 23
    and great our Caliber worried about NATO, now they’ll be puffed up to oppose it, but there’s nothing
  39. 0
    18 October 2015 16: 44
    Quote: Volka
    and great our Caliber worried about NATO, now they’ll be puffed up to oppose it, but there’s nothing

    You probably read fairy tales? What to counter a cruise missile with a subsonic flight speed? Yes all. Starting from anti-aircraft artillery with radar-guided, ending with anti-aircraft systems. Plus radars, both ground-based and AWACS. Plus aviation. I'm not talking about the fleet
    so no one will be puffed up. Unless their media, heating this topic and helping the military-industrial complex to beat out new money, using fear, well, our media. Enhancing the conceit of our readers and listeners. Here they are, the media will really be puffing
  40. 0
    18 October 2015 17: 40
    Our response is to conduct submarine exercises ... well, for example, in the Baltic Sea, so that they recall Churchill's statements at the end of WWII !!!
  41. -1
    18 October 2015 18: 34
    Quote: Crimson89
    Our response is to conduct submarine exercises ... well, for example, in the Baltic Sea, so that they recall Churchill's statements at the end of WWII !!!

    Given the presence in the system of one boat of the 877 project - the training will be effective ...

    Quote: olegfbi
    But this is a simplified export modification and it is called not Caliber, but CLUB.

    Generally CLUB - This is the common name for the missiles of this family in the West. no matter who they are armed with. Russia or other countries. Options CLUB-S, CLUB-N, CLUB-T, CLUB-M, CLUB-A, CLUB-K - primarily indicate the carrier. It is just convenient. And already the letters in the designation of the USA, Russia indicate what kind of missiles they are. Russian or export. Name CALIBER and TURQUOISE - these were the names of the OCD, which passed to the whole family, although I do not think it is right ...


    Quote: olegfbi
    Amers, along with bedding, need to show taxpayers the "mega efficiency" of the same missile defense system that nobody needs

    Your personal opinion is that Americans do not need missile defense? Then what is it based on if it's not a secret
  42. 0
    18 October 2015 18: 42
    Oh jump!
    And after all, everyone understands that the more weapons, the higher the probability of their use, albeit random. And still climb. I do not understand. Amer is not worth keeping the i-dyots. Bad guys, yes. But do not fools to seriously believe in their invulnerability. Then why continue to escalate? Who would explain?
  43. +2
    18 October 2015 18: 57
    [quote = Old26] [quote = Crimson89] Our response is to conduct submarine exercises ... well, for example, in the Baltic Sea so that they recall Churchill’s statements at the end of WWII !!! [/ quote]
    Given the presence in the system of one boat of the 877 project - the training will be effective ...

    What submarines do not float with us or do we have one diesel engine for the entire Navy ??? Amused from the heart!
  44. +1
    18 October 2015 20: 14
    I wanted to say a little more about something, recently I began to study in more detail the structure of the US armed forces, or rather how through improving organizational structures they increase combat capabilities. For example, 9 military commands, let’s take the European command as an example, the commander Philip Breedlove all the armed forces of both the United States and NATO in Europe, these are both the Air Force and the Navy and the Ground Forces, for comparison in Russia only the Minister of Defense and the chief of the general staff have such powers (well, the president by itself as the supreme commander in chief), and what’s the most interesting The European Command is not subordinate to the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but only to the US Secretary of Defense and the US President.
    In Russia, on the other hand, they began to gradually increase the powers of the commander of the military districts, for example, all types and types of troops in the controlled territory, with the exception of long-range aviation units, the Strategic Missile Forces Directorate and the aerospace defense forces, are subordinate to the military district commander.
  45. +1
    18 October 2015 20: 24
    interception of an "unarmed ballistic missile launched from the range of the British Hebrides off the coast of Scotland."

    In addition, it is planned to intercept an anti-ship missile, "fired at the same time from a closer distance"

    To go nuts!
    And if you do not intercept?
    belay
  46. 0
    18 October 2015 20: 41
    Quote: Crimson89
    What submarines do not float with us or do we have one diesel engine for the entire Navy ??? Amused from the heart!

    In the Baltic - 1 suspension, in the North - 5. Do you want to conduct exercises in the Baltic? And will you "invite" boats there from the north? Did I understand you correctly? Maybe invite boats and Pacific Fleet to the Baltic Sea?
    So what made you laugh? The exercises in the Baltic with the participation of boats from the north, then it was necessary to write joint exercises for the submarines of the Baltic Fleet and Northern Fleet. What did you write? Doctrine in the Baltic? So there really is one boat running. The second is under repair ...

    Quote: Shurik70
    Fuck! And if you do not intercept?

    Intercepted. How many American ships are there? Six?
  47. 0
    18 October 2015 20: 54
    Yeah, no disgrace. And so the whole world knows about their super-duper weapons. Saw dough and no more.
  48. 0
    18 October 2015 21: 15
    [quote = Old26] [quote = Crimson89] Our response is to conduct submarine exercises ... well, for example, in the Baltic Sea so that they recall Churchill’s statements at the end of WWII !!! [/ quote]
    Given the presence in the system of one boat of the 877 project - the training will be effective ...

    Once again I ask, submarines cannot swim ???
    Open the atlas or world map and see our nearest fleet
    And what is wrong if the Northern Fleet sends one apl from the cat family to the shores of the Baltic Sea, for example ??? What, they don’t? TARKR Peter the Great went to the shores of Libya, for example, the Northern Fleet apl sailed to the western shores of the USA, etc. Well, what doesn’t suit you?
    By the way, what do you mean by the effectiveness of the exercises, 'Behemoth-2 (3)'?
    1. 0
      18 October 2015 22: 21
      [quote = Crimson89] [quote = Old26] [quote = Crimson89] Our response is to conduct submarine exercises ... well, for example, in the Baltic Sea so that they recall Churchill’s statements at the end of the 2 WWII !!! [/ quote]
      Given the presence in the system of one boat of the 877 project - the training will be effective ...

      Once again I ask, submarines cannot swim ???
      Open the atlas or world map and see our nearest fleet
      And what is wrong if the Northern Fleet sends one apl from the cat family to the shores of the Baltic Sea, for example ??? What, they don’t? TARKR Peter the Great went to the shores of Libya, for example, the Northern Fleet apl sailed to the western shores of the USA, etc. Well, what doesn’t suit you?
      By the way, and by the effectiveness of the exercises, what do you mean, 'Behemoth-2 (3)'? [/ Quote]

      Before sending the submarines to the Baltic, look for the depths in the Baltic and the size of the submarines ...
  49. 0
    18 October 2015 21: 32
    Quote: Crimson89
    And what is wrong if the Northern Fleet sends one apl from the cat family to the shores of the Baltic Sea, for example ???

    Have you heard anything about the non-nuclear status of the Baltic ???

    Quote: Crimson89
    What, they don’t? TARKR Peter the Great, for example, walked to the coasts of Libya, apl of the Northern Fleet sailed to the western shores of the USA, etc. Well, what doesn’t suit you?

    And where does Libya, the United States? You wrote about the submarine exercises in the Baltic. So I asked, what kind of boats are there to arrange exercises at the Baltic Fleet?

    Quote: Crimson89
    By the way, what do you mean by the effectiveness of the exercises, 'Behemoth-2 (3)'?

    Well, a hippo is a matter of bygone days. Moreover, there are no missiles in the Baltic. YES and what's the point of repeating what happened. Two rockets and 14 simulators were fired simultaneously. Checked that it is possible
    1. -1
      18 October 2015 21: 54
      1. Non-nuclear status of the Baltic? Mmmm ... And who only then launches nuclear surface ships in their ports of those countries where there is no nuclear weapon I mean that there is a ban on the entry of water and the port of nuclear ships of those countries where there is no nuclear weapon !!!
      2. And where does Libya or the United States? My question is, am I talking to the wall? The question was on your part. What, should we send from other fleets an apl to the Baltic? So I gave the answer, because I saw in this question ... a curiosity right for you
      3. I ask again, under the effectiveness of the teachings, what do you mean? About Hippopotamus-2 I said this, for example, because I thought that for you the effectiveness of the exercises is something straightforward ... it should be super terrible for NATO countries!
      Well, I didn’t read and will not read about the nuclear-free agreement, I’m already tired of this military theme ... But I can definitely say that most likely it says about the use and location of nuclear weapons, and not about the ban on nuclear installations ( engines) of surface and submarine ships And as for the use of weapons, then ... (I have been fascinated and read for a long time, I don’t remember) there are winged PCRs on Antei-nah or Dolphin-ah
  50. The comment was deleted.
  51. 0
    19 October 2015 07: 16
    The Yankees remind me of Poroshenko, who thought, thought, why... at least do something - aaaand - boarded a Russian plane, and then TOOK A PHOTO in it!!!
  52. 0
    20 October 2015 18: 39
    Quote: Crimson89
    1. Non-nuclear status of the Baltic? Mmmm ... And who only then launches nuclear surface ships in their ports of those countries where there is no nuclear weapon I mean that there is a ban on the entry of water and the port of nuclear ships of those countries where there is no nuclear weapon !!!

    Maybe I didn’t express myself very correctly about the nuclear-free status, but... The point is that, of course, the USSR failed to introduce a nuclear-free status for both Latin America (the Tlatelolco Treaty) and others (the Rarotonga, Pelindaba Treaty and the like. No, this is not succeeded, but the only thing that the USSR succeeded at the international level was to ban the entry of nuclear-powered warships into the Black and Baltic Seas, which prevented the cruiser Peter the Great from entering the Black Sea during the Winter Olympics.

    Quote: Crimson89
    .What does Libya or the USA have to do with it? I have a question - Am I talking to the wall? The question was from your side - What, should we send nuclear submarines from other fleets to the Baltic? So I gave the answer, because I saw in this question... a wonder for you

    A curiosity for you. If you do not know about the ban on the entry of ships with nuclear weapons into the Baltic and Black Seas

    Quote: Crimson89
    3. I ask again, what do you mean by the effectiveness of the exercises? About Behemoth-2 I said this as an example, because I thought that for you the effectiveness of the exercises is something really...extremely terrible for the NATO countries! Well, I haven’t read and won’t read about the nuclear-free treaty, I’m already tired of this military topic... But I can say for sure that most likely it says about the use and presence of nuclear weapons, and not about the ban on nuclear installations ( engines) of surface and underwater ships And as for the use of weapons, then... (I was interested in it for a long time and read, I don’t remember) there are winged anti-ship missiles on Antey-nakh or Dolphin-ah

    If you are tired of military topics, then sorry, why the hell would you write on a military site???

    The effectiveness of exercises that should be “scary” for NATO countries, then sorry, what kind of exercise of the submarine forces of the Baltic Fleet should be scary for NATO in response to a NATO missile defense exercise? The training of the Baltic Fleet, its submarine forces in the amount of one boat????

    That is, you don’t really know whether the Anteys or Dolphins had cruise missiles, but you are trying to write something??? Famously....

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