Military Review

Expert: Syrian army still uses complexes "Tochka"

40
Messenger of Mordovia published an interview with one of the leading Syrian experts Yuri Lyamin, who spoke about the Syrian missile arsenal, in particular, about the facts of using Tochka missile systems known to him.




Reporter: “When did the“ Points ”start to enter Syria? How many missiles were delivered and the complexes themselves? What are the modifications?

Lyamin: “Information on the supply of arms to the ATS is very closed, and on missile weapons - especially, so it’s hard for me to talk about accurate data. As far as we know, the Tochka OTRK were delivered to Syria sometime in the mid-1980s after the 1982 Lebanon War with Israel. Most of the various directories speak of 18 delivered launchers, but it is not known how accurate this is. We still do not know reliably how many MiG-29 aircraft were delivered to Syria, and about this weapons as the "Point" and say no. Given the years of delivery, the Syrians probably got the Points in their original version. ”

Expert: Syrian army still uses complexes "Tochka"
Launchers of the Syrian complexes "Point" received an additional reservation

Reporter: “When was the first launch of the militants recorded? How many missiles were fired?

Lyamin: “The first launches of the“ Points ”on militants were recorded at the end of December 2012-th - the beginning of January 2013. Again, it’s hard to say how many launches since that time, probably at least a few dozen, since I’ve probably seen more than a dozen different videos with missile launches or remnants. For example, during the fighting for Murek in the north of the province of Hama, in the spring of 2014, there were at least several “Dots” strikes with cluster warheads. The last time such videos with fragments of the rocket were seen on video at the end of 2014 of the year. According to some available data, these complexes are still used. ”

Syrian missile system 9K72 "Elbrus, also known as" SCUD-B

Correspondent: "And what is the information about the North Korean clones of the" Points "among the Syrians?".

Lyamin: “As for the North Korean copies of the“ Dots ”, it is often difficult for an outside observer to understand from the remaining fragments of the missiles to the outside observer where they were made. However, all the lighted starting and transport-charging machines from the Syrians are original, Soviet-made. ”

9K52 Luna-M (FROG-7)

Reporter: "What kind of missile systems are still available to the Syrians?".

Lyamin: “Syria, besides solid fuel OTRK 9K79“ Point ”, has liquid 9K72E“ Elbrus ”. By the latter, as far as is known, after the collapse of the USSR, the Syrians acquired Korean Hwaseon-6 missiles with an increased range (they were also produced in Iran under the name Shahab-2), and then with the help of Koreans and Iranians their production or assembly was organized in Syria itself.

In addition, Syria has already received the Iranian solid fuel OTRK "Fateh-2000" in 110-x.
In addition to the mentioned missile-guided complexes, Syria also had our old Luna-M and Iranian Zelzal complexes with unguided rockets. ”
Photos used:
imp-navigator.livejournal.com and defenseupdate
40 comments
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  1. Bassoon
    Bassoon 17 October 2015 08: 34 New
    18
    All means are good against terrorists.
    1. Observer2014
      Observer2014 17 October 2015 08: 51 New
      +8
      I absolutely agree that all means to combat terrorism are good.
      And as regards our old missile systems, I can say one thing. It depends on what you equip them with. If they are weapons of mass destruction, then these complexes will be so deadly.
      1. svp67
        svp67 17 October 2015 10: 47 New
        +5
        Quote: Observer2014
        I absolutely agree that all means to combat terrorism are good.

        Exactly. And "Tochka" with its skillful storage and use is quite a "weighty" argument on the battlefield. It's just that now we need our specialists and equipment, some of which we need to transfer there, to assess their condition. Perhaps it is better to upgrade them now before using ...
    2. Very old
      Very old 17 October 2015 09: 00 New
      +6
      Fagot, I am also against the terrorists and for their complete ...
      The "means" includes: ............ to a fig inhuman, including nuclear weapons
      I-FOR, if "good means" along the way do not destroy you with me and everything else

      Expressions choose hi
      1. Sid.74
        Sid.74 17 October 2015 09: 14 New
        +6
        By the way, comrades, have you all seen the "pressukha" of the General Staff of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation for foreign officers and the media?

        Where we showed maps with the location of the IG and AN-Nusra in Syria, but why did we do it? wink
        An interesting comment found on this topic.
        Anton Orlovsky: Now let the US compare our data with their own and understand that their map in Syria is a bit, and all the pawns from the terrorist organization Islamic State are under attack. This is if the Americans really know the position of the IG positions, but they hide it from Russia. Maybe then, finally, the Americans will stop assisting the terrorists and leave Syria alone?
        But if Washington only created the appearance of the steepness of its own intelligence, and in fact, it has long since released the reins of power of the terrorists created by them and has no idea where and what they have, then let the Pentagon envy our intelligence.
    3. GSH-18
      GSH-18 17 October 2015 11: 11 New
      +5
      Syrian army still uses complexes "Point"

      The tone of the title is not clear. If still use, then they have them. And this is good.
  2. dr.star75
    dr.star75 17 October 2015 08: 34 New
    +5
    When it comes to the survival of the state, all means are good.
  3. Armored optimist
    Armored optimist 17 October 2015 08: 36 New
    +7
    According to the results of "Desert Storm", 1 Patriot missiles were used for 13 SCAD. Iron dome, in which case they (and hopefully the point) will also be on the drum. The S-300 has higher accuracy, many direct hits. Debris falls at the meeting point (in projection to the ground, of course), and the SCADA rocket received a bunch of holes from the Patriot, but flew further.
    1. bulvas
      bulvas 17 October 2015 08: 49 New
      +4
      Quote: armored optimist
      the SCADA missile received a bunch of holes from the Patriot, but flew on.


      Moreover, it flew further along an unpredictable trajectory, tumbling.

      In Israel, during the "Desert Storm" there was no sense at all from the Patriots.

      True, the Scuds were not of much use, but there were destruction and the psychological effect was, which Hussein had mostly counted on to split the coalition

    2. SPACE
      SPACE 17 October 2015 09: 26 New
      +1
      Quote: armored optimist
      C-300 has higher accuracy,

      C-200 Vega was armed with a nuclear tactical warhead, any serious air defense system could potentially work on the ground, such as in the 0808 war, Georgian boats were sunk-damaged by ship missiles. It may make sense to create universal mobile land firing systems, at the same time, depending on the filling, for work both in the air and on the ground, here Americans can install tomahawks and SM missiles in their UPV cells.
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 17 October 2015 10: 03 New
      0
      Only those Patriots were not designed to intercept ballistic missiles.
    4. Wiski
      Wiski 17 October 2015 13: 36 New
      -8
      Quote: armored optimist
      The S-300 accuracy is higher, a lot of direct hits.


      C-300 did not take part in any conflict, but it was studied by everyone who is not lazy in Greece, including Israel. Therefore, how it will look real in action, and not like a Patriot, who also showed himself well at the training ground, this is a good question.

      Quote: armored optimist
      According to the results of Desert Storm, 1 Patriot missiles were used for 13 SCAD.


      There, it seems that this system really went through baptism of fire and all sorts of different errors and problems got out, which later were sort of fixed what .


      Quote: armored optimist
      Iron dome, in which case they (and I hope the point) will also be on the drum


      LCD is capable of shooting down such missiles.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 17 October 2015 21: 54 New
        +2
        I think that everyone proved the viability of the Soviet systems S-75 and S-125. And the USSR certainly would not put into service a system worse than these.
        S-300 has at least a circular fire, unlike Patriot. Which leads to the bulkiness of the American system. Although everyone has studied how you write, it only seems that the export version is not native. Caliber is a lot that showed. Yes, and the S-300 tests showed a 90% chance of being hit (the highest). hi
        1. Wiski
          Wiski 17 October 2015 22: 36 New
          -1
          Quote: Kasym
          I think that everyone proved the viability of the Soviet systems S-75 and S-125. And the USSR certainly would not put into service a system worse than these.



          These systems worked worse in real combat operations than in the specified technical characteristics, especially after the start of using modern (at that time) electronic warfare systems.

          Here's an interesting article on the topic - http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/attrition_war2.htm



          Quote: Kasym
          . Although everyone has studied how you write, it only seems that the export version is not native. Caliber is a lot that showed.


          Yes, there is a difference, of course, between export and one’s own, but if you studied export and its possibilities, this obviously gives a lot of advantages.


          Yes, and the S-300 tests showed a 90% chance of hitting (the highest)


          The Patriot PAC-3 air defense system also has good performance (in trials).
          But bad luck, greenhouse data is not an indicator at all ..

          Look at the C300 in the case and against modern electronic warfare and other things.

          Tests do not show real characteristics. hi
      2. APASUS
        APASUS 17 October 2015 22: 16 New
        0
        Quote: Wiski
        LCD is capable of shooting down such missiles.

        It seems that the moderators with the VO have changed their rules or Israeli intelligence is trying to adjust the opinions of visitors to this site. This huge number of experts with the flag of Israel has not been
  4. Strashila
    Strashila 17 October 2015 08: 40 New
    +7
    This potential lies in the technique ... another century, other realities, and it plows.
    1. Armored optimist
      Armored optimist 17 October 2015 08: 56 New
      +3
      Only, unfortunately, if you look at the experience of using the Points against the LDNR, the explosive in the charge or detonators apparently degrades, or "the firing pin sticks". Every fourth explodes.
      1. dr.star75
        dr.star75 17 October 2015 09: 31 New
        +6
        Not a fact, quite possibly they were "helped to deviate from the trajectory and self-destruct." On the VO website there was an interesting article about electronic warfare equipment.
  5. 31rus
    31rus 17 October 2015 08: 54 New
    +4
    "Tochua-u", there is also "Tochka-R", the latter is aimed at the radiation source of the radar, it is not known about military reconciliation, for a war in the desert, a good result can be achieved, subject to prepared calculations, maintenance, storage. why cannot Syria as a state use the entire arsenal of means to protect
  6. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 17 October 2015 08: 54 New
    +8
    Yemenis from Tochka snapped around the Qatari and Saudi military base. about 100 dead, the prince banged and a lot of technology.
  7. gop
    gop 17 October 2015 09: 39 New
    -27
    no one knows, but Mordovians know, PPC will soon see Mordovians in the European Union
    1. afdjhbn67
      afdjhbn67 17 October 2015 09: 50 New
      +6
      Quote: Gop
      no one knows, but Mordovians know

      "Messenger of Mordor" laughing famous authority in military equipment
    2. AlNikolaich
      AlNikolaich 17 October 2015 11: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Gop
      no one knows, but Mordovians know, PPC will soon see Mordovians in the European Union

      Aryas! Alashen poksh dad is straight!
      Little daddy ty tyrivi!
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Sergey Medvedev
      Sergey Medvedev 17 October 2015 12: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: Gop
      no one knows, but Mordovians know, PPC will soon see Mordovians in the European Union


      Maybe we'll see, along with the Buryat underwater armored cavalry and others of ours. laughing
  8. A1L9E4K9S
    A1L9E4K9S 17 October 2015 09: 56 New
    +2
    Quote: Strashila
    This potential lies in the technique ... another century, other realities, and it plows.


    Old horse, it won't ruin the furrows.
    1. Mikhail Krapivin
      Mikhail Krapivin 17 October 2015 10: 10 New
      +1
      But it will not plow deeply either. Weapons must always be bought new if you do not produce it yourself. Otherwise, there is a chance to lag behind history. Like Saddam, for example. Not much helped him outdated tanks.
  9. Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 17 October 2015 10: 37 New
    0
    The main thing is that these complexes do not fall into terrorists, although our calibers will find them everywhere.
  10. AlexTires
    AlexTires 17 October 2015 10: 41 New
    0
    in WAR all means are good, and the Point, with the prepared calculation and proper services, will serve faithfully for a long time, especially since the Syrians of the rocket can rivet for it ...
  11. morozik
    morozik 17 October 2015 10: 46 New
    +2
    Review for the morning 17/10

  12. NordUral
    NordUral 17 October 2015 12: 28 New
    0
    There would be more different "points" to put, finally, on the terrorists and (not) moderate opposition, or rather, the bandits, one big point.
  13. Gunther
    Gunther 17 October 2015 18: 31 New
    0
    Wiski Quote:
    ... Patriot, who also showed himself well at the training ground ...

    Well at the training ground, this is of course an argument :-)
    Only when he was grinding the base of the Saudids, he showed himself liquid, did not provide adequate protection:
    "Is this the biggest bummer in history for the Patriot air defense system?
    Tehran (FNA) - Yemeni army and people's committee forces attacked a strategic air base in Asir province in southern Saudi Arabia with Scud missiles, killing dozens of high-ranking Saudi officers and destroying more than two dozen F-15 fighters and Apache helicopters. At least 66 high-ranking Saudi officers, including two senior commanders, were killed when Yemeni missiles hit a base in Khamis Mushait in Asir province in retaliation for the kingdom's aggression against the Yemeni people.
    Yemeni forces also destroyed 17 F-15 aircraft and 9 Apache helicopters. "
    http://za-kaddafi.org/node/40170
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. Old26
    Old26 17 October 2015 19: 07 New
    0
    Quote: Observer2014
    And as regards our old missile systems, I can say one thing. It depends on what you equip them with. If they are weapons of mass destruction, then these complexes will be so deadly.

    Is there anything to equip? Syria's chemical weapons are eliminated. The accuracy of the North Korean-Iranian clones, like the BG, can not be compared with the Soviet

    Quote: 31rus
    Tochua-u ", there is also a" Tochka-R ", the latter is aimed at the radar radiation source about military reconciliation is not known, for a war in the desert, a good result can be achieved, provided that calculations, maintenance, storage are prepared. why Syria, as a state, cannot use the entire arsenal of means to protect

    The most important question. And whether "point-R" was supplied for export?

    Quote: Alexander 3
    The main thing is that these complexes do not fall into terrorists, although our calibers will find them everywhere.

    Yeah, cass. How many hundred times do you need to repeat that the calibers in the variant 3М14 work exclusively on STATIONARY OBJECTIVES?

    Quote: Wiski
    There, it seems that this system really went through baptism of fire and all sorts of different errors and problems got out, which later were sort of fixed

    Not only. During the first Gulf War, PETRIOTS were used. which were not originally intended TO DESTROY BALLISTIC GOALS


    Quote: Gunter
    Wiski Quote:
    ... Patriot, who also showed himself well at the training ground ...

    Well at the training ground, this is of course an argument :-)
    Only when he was grinding the base of the Saudids, he showed himself liquid, did not provide adequate protection:
    "Is this the biggest bummer in history for the Patriot air defense system?
    Tehran (FNA) - Yemeni army and people's committee forces attacked a strategic air base in Asir province in southern Saudi Arabia with Scud missiles, killing dozens of high-ranking Saudi officers and destroying more than two dozen F-15 fighters and Apache helicopters. At least 66 high-ranking Saudi officers, including two senior commanders, were killed when Yemeni missiles hit a base in Khamis Mushait in Asir province in retaliation for the kingdom's aggression against the Yemeni people.
    Yemeni forces also destroyed 17 F-15 aircraft and 9 Apache helicopters. "
    http://za-kaddafi.org/node/40170

    The resource is certainly beyond praise in terms of propaganda. Only why so few planes were destroyed. They would write 150 F-15 and 90 Apaches ....
  16. Gunther
    Gunther 17 October 2015 19: 44 New
    0
    Old26 Quote:
    The resource is certainly beyond praise in terms of propaganda. Only why so few planes were destroyed. They would write 150 F-15 and 90 Apaches ....

    Do you think the Farsnews Iranian News Agency (Farsa News Agency - FNA) has underestimated the loss of the Saudis?
    And often do they?
    Can you give me the facts?
    1. Gani
      Gani 18 October 2015 08: 45 New
      0
      For the Russian ear, farce news sounds as if ... in fact
  17. yan 2015
    yan 2015 17 October 2015 20: 39 New
    0
    in this matter, it’s time to put the Point .. well or Point-U.
  18. Old26
    Old26 17 October 2015 21: 21 New
    0
    Quote: Gunter
    Do you think the Iranian news agency Farsnews (Fars News Agency - FNA) has underestimated the loss of the Saudis? And often they have it? Can you give me the facts?

    And no one can tell you that. as usual, their losses are decreasing, others are increasing. One's own weapon becomes "superwunderwaffe", another's - garbage. The distance from the Yemeni border to the airbase is about 250 km. Judging by the fact that missiles were used quite often back in the 90s, the likelihood that they still have Soviet missiles is almost zero. What the Yemenis have are clones. The weight of the warhead is 700 kg (500 kg of explosives) with a CEP of 2 km (range 550) or 400 kg (300 kg of explosives) with a CEP of about 4 km (with a range of 700 km). Think about it. Can a rocket with such a CEP (2 and 4 km) and a warhead weight of 700 and 400 kg hit 15 aircraft and 9 helicopters at once ??
  19. Gunther
    Gunther 17 October 2015 22: 05 New
    0
    Old26 Quote: the likelihood that they have remained Soviet missiles are almost zero.

    From the realm of speculation - the North Korean wind drifted (from Iran).)))
  20. Old26
    Old26 17 October 2015 22: 15 New
    0
    Quote: Gunter
    From the realm of speculation - the North Korean wind drifted (from Iran).)))

    I wrote - North Korean-Iranian clones
  21. Gunther
    Gunther 17 October 2015 22: 38 New
    0
    Old26 Quote: The weight of the warhead is 700 kg (500 kg of explosives) with a KVO of 2 km (range 550) or 400 kg (300 kg of explosives) with a KVO of about 4 km (with a range of 700 km).

    PS
    I looked at what Yemen had - "Scud B" (max range 300 km, KVO - 450 meters, warhead - 700kg).
    What kind of missiles with KVO 2-4 km.?
  22. clidon
    clidon 18 October 2015 00: 01 New
    0
    Russia also has Tochka complexes in service. It is not clear what is so surprising here?
  23. Old26
    Old26 18 October 2015 00: 22 New
    0
    Quote: Gunter
    Old26 Quote: The weight of the warhead is 700 kg (500 kg of explosives) with a KVO of 2 km (range 550) or 400 kg (300 kg of explosives) with a KVO of about 4 km (with a range of 700 km).

    PS
    I looked at what Yemen had - "Scud B" (max range 300 km, KVO - 450 meters, warhead - 700kg).
    What kind of missiles with KVO 2-4 km.?

    Yes, in the bulk of sources these characteristics are indicated. These sources, among which there are many well-known ones, such as "Military Balance" do not bother and all the missiles, or almost all that were supplied by the Soviet Union, are called "SCUD-B". As a result, Soviet missiles have the same designations as clones, although in fact they are different missiles. In particular, the same SIPRI publication, in about 2000, reported that Yemen had up to 45 North Korean SCUD-C missiles.

    Further, on December 12.12.2002, XNUMX, there was information in the media that the head of the Yemeni Foreign Ministry formally protested the incident in the Arabian Sea to the US ambassador in Sana'a, stating that the ship was heading to Yemen and that the missiles were intended for the Yemeni army for defensive purposes.

    The dry cargo ship So-San, sailing from the DPRK without identification marks, was detained in the Indian Ocean by the Spanish Navy. It carried 15 Scud missiles and 15 non-nuclear warheads, as well as other high-tech ammunition. In particular, 85 containers with chemicals. All this was under the bags of cement.

    There was also other data that in the mid-90s the Yemeni army had about 18 launchers and 200 SS-1C "SCUD-B" with a range of 300 km, a head of 989 kg and a KVO 900 meters, as well as 8 launchers and 60+ SS -1D "SCUD-C" with a range of 550 km, a head of 700 kg and a KVO of 2000 meters. as well as a number of North Korean missiles, which are not named. In particular, "Nodong-1" with a range of 700, a head of 400 kg and a KVO 4 km. Any of our SKAD export missiles had a KVO about twice as much as those that were in service in the USSR
  24. Gunther
    Gunther 18 October 2015 03: 15 New
    0
    It is clear that in any case, we will rejoice for the successes of the Yemeni army, the more the Saudi occupiers get a pug, the less they will have the desire to supply Igilov’s MANPADS.
  25. Old26
    Old26 18 October 2015 10: 01 New
    0
    Quote: Gunter
    It is clear that in any case, we will rejoice for the successes of the Yemeni army, the more the Saudi occupiers get a pug, the less they will have the desire to supply Igilov’s MANPADS.

    I wouldn't be particularly happy. It is not known how accurate the information is. At least on June 6, the Patriots intercepted the SCUD. Moreover, we do not know how many of these missiles remain and in what condition they are.
  26. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 18 October 2015 18: 03 New
    0
    Let's not confuse the horses, it is very difficult to intercept the "Point". range 100 km. This is the "pistol" distance. The point is used for tactical purposes - jump airfields, battery positions, command post, radar positions. Will you put a Patriot near every command post? And the flight time of the Point is very short 100 km is the maximum range. in combat conditions it is 30-80 km. UU Patriot banal reaction time is not enough. Its destiny is SCUD-type missiles and protection of large objects. Those. To fight the Tochka, the Patriot must be in the frontline zone ?! This is an expensive pleasure. In the Russian Army, there are TOR complexes for this and the Pantsir is questionable.