Military Review

Hello, I'm a traitor!

217
Little sketch on the subject of who the ombudsmen and whose rights and interests they protect.


Loud scandal recently broke out around the statements of the Internet ombudsman under Russian President Dmitry Marinichev, who sounded at a meeting of the Public Chamber. In response to scientists' complaints about underfunding, Mr. Marinichev, without batting an eye, said that “if you want to harm the country, then you should invest in the creation of IT-specialists in the territory of the Russian Federation”, because “more harm cannot be done”. That is, the person formally responsible for the direction suggested actually destroying this very direction. Of course, from purely good purposes.



This was followed by revelations, well worthy of study by specialists either from psychiatry or from the relevant services. In particular, Marinichev announced that the Russian market is still “just a sandbox, this is some kind of aquarium compared to the world's oceans,” and therefore “it’s impossible to do something or import it in the framework of our country alone”. The following is even more interesting:

“No one has ever canceled a simple thing: that the army first comes, traders come for the army, and the market comes after traders. Accordingly, where there is power, you are there. Today, the United States has monopoly on technology throughout the market. ”

Probably, according to this logic, the Russian Federation is proposing to conquer half of the world to promote its goods. By the same logic, right now in many countries of the world should be Chinese, Japanese and South Korean troops.

Later, Mr. Marinichev, apparently realizing that he had spoken too much, immediately tried to disavow his statements with the traditional “misunderstood” and “taken out of context”, but the text had already managed to disperse on the network with the corresponding comments from ordinary Russians.

It so happened that, although not being an IT person, for a number of personal circumstances, I have a good idea of ​​the affairs in this industry in the Russian Federation. I can honestly say that she is one of the best in the world, and if she were allowed to develop normally and not suffocated, she would have become an absolute leader. But officials from high offices, apparently, have a different opinion. Obviously, theology and “TRP norms” look much more promising for them.

And if we suddenly need a quality information product, then we can always ... buy it. In the West. For the currency gained from the sale of resources. I remember that something similar was answered before the 2008 crisis of the year to those people who called for the development of their own production of consumer goods. They say that this is not a royal business - to rivet TVs and refrigerators, we will buy everything in China.

Let's keep silent about the fact that with the destruction of our own IT-industry, you can put an end to the domestic defense industry, with all the resulting geopolitical consequences. Once again bravo, Mr. Marinichev! You really know your stuff.

There is no doubt that Mr. Marinichev came to his place directly from the company of Russophobic liberals. They believe that their duty to destroy almost the only industry in Russia, which is held on an equal footing with the best Western models and even surpasses them.

“At the R & D level, everything is produced in the United States,” the ombudsman announced. - Any trained specialist in our territory will pray to that ... to that source of information where this knowledge comes from. And the first thing is to try to go from here to there, in order to be closer to the case in which he deals. This is an absolutely natural desire. ”

Wonderful logic. Why prepare programmers if they leave anyway? Apparently, in addition to the desire to save budget money for someone's personal needs (it is not difficult to guess whose), Mr. Marinichev is driven by banal envy. Like, various serfs got into the habit of traveling abroad, when it was just us, the bars, to face. And what is even more disgusting, they are really waiting for them there, but we, high-born gentlemen, are called bad words! No, do not let go!

In general, with the above-mentioned gentleman everything is clear for a long time. Instead of concrete proposals for the development of his industry, he offers the scolding thesis that “capitulation is inevitable”, and he persistently promotes the idea that import substitution within one country is nonsense, which should not even be considered. Apparently, the example of South Korea and other successful countries to ombudsmen is not a decree.

There is only one question left for the general public: who put a person with similar views on the post of ombudsman for the IT industry. The enemy, as they say, you need to know in person.
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  1. Johnny51
    Johnny51 16 October 2015 06: 30 New
    +273
    You know, it seems to me that the war with the United States and its allies is crap compared to the war with HIS MAJESTY OFFICER ... Not a single external enemy can do such harm as HE. If I live to see the moment when officials in Russia say: “I don’t take a bribe, I’m offended for Russia!”, I’ll assume that life has not been lived in vain.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 16 October 2015 06: 39 New
      +5
      Quote: Johnny51
      If I live to see the moment when officials in Russia say: “I don’t take a bribe, I’m sorry for Russia!”, I’ll consider that life has not been lived

      You will not live, in Russia they took bribes at all times. This is ineradicable, downtime of a human vice, as well as the desire to eat deliciously.
      1. inkass_98
        inkass_98 16 October 2015 06: 55 New
        +84
        It’s just that before, conscience had partly also, therefore they stole according to the table of ranks. So, by the way, is still happening in China. And in our country (under the tsarist regime, under Stalinism, this phenomenon was practically obsolete, under Kukuruznik and Lelik everything was reversed), and in China, the presumptuous were quickly brought to their senses. Now the people have completely beguiled the coast. I read the media I declare: the average bribe in the Kuban 223 Krub. To get angry, it turns out that I have to work for an average bribe in the region for four months, do not eat, do not drink, do not pay for anything. Hands chop and shoot - I do not see another recipe.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 16 October 2015 07: 24 New
          +10
          Quote: inkass_98
          It’s just that before they had fear and partly conscience,

          Anyone who steals and takes bribes of conscience does not have a priori. Previously, there was simply no Internet and publicly available information about who took how much. Therefore, the impression is that.
          Quote: inkass_98
          I’ll read the media statement: the average bribe in the Kuban 223 Krub

          Well, to whom is this a bribe?
          And who calculated the average criterion?
          1. Was mammoth
            Was mammoth 16 October 2015 08: 51 New
            +5
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Well, to whom is this a bribe?
            And who calculated the average criterion?

            Like who? Taken Schnick. He calculated, paid taxes to "sleep soundly." Or a tax specialist from the database. wink
          2. bhdir1946
            bhdir1946 16 October 2015 11: 37 New
            +3
            The possibilities of the information field are enormous, but what we saw then and what we are observing now is “O two big differences!” Selfishness bordering on human insanity. “Civilized barbarism”
          3. antoXa
            antoXa 16 October 2015 13: 55 New
            +1
            Alexander Romanov
            this question is also always very interesting))) when I read where and what is the average level of bribes))), including here we often quite people give these all sorts of numbers, how much over what year the average level of bribes grew, clutching his head and they shout "ah yay yay !!! complete mess", although I’m almost sure to get this information from nowhere and someone like Navalny will throw it into the network and ...
            1. esaull
              esaull 17 October 2015 10: 05 New
              +1
              Well, yes, but does the bulk determine the average bribe to traffic cops on the road? or maybe just the experience of communicating with these servants of the people?)
              1. ksan
                ksan 17 October 2015 17: 33 New
                +2
                Well, yes, but does the bulk determine the average bribe to traffic cops on the road?
                Not once in the last ten or twelve years I have not given bribes, and not what, maybe you can try hi
              2. antoXa
                antoXa 21 October 2015 16: 54 New
                0
                esaull
                And who determines? Maybe you? I don’t know, if you know, tell me ...
                I’m wondering what is the average country bribe for crossing a solid line? Or at least tell me how much the bribe for such an offense is very different in Moscow and for example in Nerchinsk, Chita Oblast?
              3. antoXa
                antoXa 21 October 2015 16: 57 New
                0
                I’ll add, I have quite a long driving experience and have never given a bribe to a traffic cop in my life, apparently on the contrary, if you can talk about statistics, you wouldn’t disgrace, since you are respected in this case are no less guilty of increased corruption than those ... officials.
            2. Dock1272
              Dock1272 17 October 2015 12: 02 New
              +1
              Yes, it’s elementary. Simple analytics. The sums of proven (or incriminated) bribes are taken and divided into the number of convicted (or otmazannyh). Of course, the figure is purely arbitrary and approximate. And about Navalny - I’m far from thinking that he’s “offended” by the power. Of course, he does everything exclusively in his own interests and to achieve his goals, but in principle he also does the right thing. And if what he puts out is true (it turned out so far), then why not
              1. antoXa
                antoXa 21 October 2015 17: 01 New
                0
                Dock1272
                But you must admit that, based on this logic of (elementary) calculation, you can also judge the opposite, that there were more proven crimes in the case of large and higher-ranking officials than before ... For example, I don’t remember when 4-5 governors and their deputies within one half of the year ...
          4. Hello
            Hello 16 October 2015 15: 25 New
            +4
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Well, to whom is this a bribe?
            And who calculated the average criterion?

            The average amount is calculated from the solved crimes, as I understand it. wink
        2. Mikhail Krapivin
          Mikhail Krapivin 16 October 2015 07: 52 New
          +47
          In order to get a responsible position in one of the law enforcement agencies in the Kuban, they asked for 5 million. Apparently, upon receiving this position, one needs to put a cash register and begin to beat back their money. So yes, the shores are tangled specifically and without shocks the situation will not be resolved.
        3. go21zd45few
          go21zd45few 16 October 2015 18: 14 New
          +24
          It is time for theft and bribery to completely confiscate the property from the official and all his relatives, to cancel bank accounts, to prohibit holding government posts for life, to be evicted to rural areas, there are enough abandoned houses in the villages, so let them settle in, at the same time they are engaged in agriculture . Maybe such a measure will sober them up.
          1. Victor Demchenko
            Victor Demchenko 16 October 2015 20: 18 New
            +9
            dreams, dreams, what is your sweetness ...
            so it won’t be like that until the power of EdRosa and did not sell the law on confiscation. and indeed, I don’t remember who, but they made a very correct proposal: an official convicted of a bribe or other economic crime should be imprisoned for at least 25 years WITHOUT AMNESTY RIGHT. knowing this, the meaning of stealing will disappear, since it will not be able to use the stolen goods. request
          2. antipendos
            antipendos 16 October 2015 20: 43 New
            +1
            I put you a plus measure is so fair, but ... there is one thing but also very important, what to do with the givers?
            1. oracul
              oracul 17 October 2015 08: 19 New
              +6
              And nothing to do with them. As soon as the people (with the exception of those who are too enterprising) see that the official begins to work, and those who take are inevitably held accountable, he will calm down and stop giving. The bulk of the people are law abiding. For example, until recently, in the evenings, all the benches in the malls were busy drinking beer and more. But as soon as the polymers started stirring, they even began to take pictures before moving in, then most of them immediately understood everything.
          3. BLOND
            BLOND 17 October 2015 07: 28 New
            +4
            confiscation + 9 grams of lead (if in extra-large sizes)
            let it go very fast!
          4. The comment was deleted.
          5. Dock1272
            Dock1272 17 October 2015 12: 05 New
            +1
            Yes, it’s never been clear to me either: they caught a bureaucracy on theft. Let's even put him (not like Vasiliev) for 5 years. And the ban on posts was given for 3 years. What is it like?. He will not be able to occupy the position in the next 5 years (he is 5 years old). Or does the countdown begin after his release?
        4. exalex2
          exalex2 17 October 2015 09: 40 New
          +1
          Quote: inkass_98
          It’s just that before, conscience had partly also, therefore they stole according to the table of ranks. So, by the way, is still happening in China. And we have earlier (under the royal regime

          Well, now no one, someone, and something and is not afraid of anyone .. And what's the trick ?. Revealed completely .. Putin Glory ?? !! More stupidity is not visible on the horizon. Or it is just around the corner .. For Russia is not Moscow ..
        5. bornikrub
          bornikrub 18 October 2015 07: 29 New
          0
          Another liberal
      2. Rusich is not from Kiev
        Rusich is not from Kiev 16 October 2015 08: 03 New
        +10
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        You will not live, in Russia they took bribes at all times. This is ineradicable, downtime of a human vice, as well as the desire to eat deliciously.

        He generally wrote about something else. And bribes are taken all over the world, since this is a human vice.
      3. Skif83
        Skif83 16 October 2015 08: 15 New
        +21
        So you need to live up to those times when you will not wait for the manna from heaven, but you yourself will ask those who take bribes.
        The statement of another question is interesting:
        There is only one question left for the general public: who put a person with similar views on the post of ombudsman for the IT industry. The enemy, as they say, you need to know in person.
        . Answer the question - who appoints a worthless liberal government, who approves thieving governors, who encourages oligarchs, who calls enemies "partners", etc. etc.
        And most importantly, someone votes for the one who appoints them all!
        Why are there little things about some kind of “handler” from IT ?!
        1. Vladimir Pozlnyakov
          Vladimir Pozlnyakov 16 October 2015 09: 31 New
          +6
          Add my "5 cents" negative! Not only “who appoints?”, But why “suffers”?
          Pros ..... Ukraine! And now, according to the Belarusians themselves, all of our pro-Western corrupt liberal Fifth Column rushed to Belarus with translated pro-American lectures in technical schools, universities! God forbid, Old Man endured all this betrayal before the elections and after them will restore order!
        2. Altona
          Altona 16 October 2015 12: 09 New
          +2
          Quote: Skif83
          . Answer the question - who appoints a worthless liberal government, who approves thieving governors, who encourages oligarchs, who calls enemies "partners", etc. etc.
          And most importantly, someone votes for the one who appoints them all!
          Why are there little things about some kind of “handler” from IT ?!

          ---------------------------
          There are almost all relatives on one side ... Is that a secret?
        3. Alf
          Alf 16 October 2015 19: 04 New
          +2
          Quote: Skif83
          . Answer the question - who appoints a worthless liberal government, who approves thieving governors, who encourages oligarchs, who calls enemies "partners", etc. etc.

          You're not right. We have- "The king is good, the boyars are bad."
          1. Victor Demchenko
            Victor Demchenko 16 October 2015 20: 19 New
            -8
            Quote: Alf
            You're not right. We have- "The king is good, the boyars are bad."

            thought for a long time? fool
            1. aleks_29296
              aleks_29296 16 October 2015 21: 41 New
              0
              And what, is it said incorrectly? So was the whole history of Russia, or are you trying to challenge it?
          2. Shishiga
            Shishiga 17 October 2015 11: 02 New
            0
            What is amazing - the comedy "Getan Yanukovych. 2." now in Russia ??? A life wassat fool does not teach ??? am
      4. Manul
        Manul 16 October 2015 09: 22 New
        +7
        Quote: Alexander Romanov

        You will not live, in Russia they took bribes at all times. This is ineradicable, downtime of a human vice, as well as the desire to eat deliciously.

        Seems article number 89th? Here it is necessary to begin with this. Where there are no restrictions, permissiveness appears. We will return the articles, return the confiscations, return the execution for the betrayal of the motherland, and it will be easier.
        1. Alf
          Alf 16 October 2015 19: 07 New
          +3
          Quote: Manul
          We will return the articles, return the confiscations, return the execution for the betrayal of the motherland, and it will be easier already.

          Who will return something? Those who are responsible for the introduction of new laws are the earplugs themselves (from the word "I take"). Will they shit themselves in their own hands?
          1. Manul
            Manul 16 October 2015 19: 34 New
            +3
            Quote: Alf
            Who will return something? Those who are responsible for the introduction of new laws are the earplugs themselves (from the word "I take"). Will they shit themselves in their own hands?

            I’ll tell you more - they blocked the law on the fine for throwing garbage out of the car window. Apparently, the deputies like to throw out cigarette butts, leftovers and empty bottles, which they don’t know how you can be fined for it.
      5. bhdir1946
        bhdir1946 16 October 2015 11: 25 New
        +7
        Yes, they’ve taken a “bribe” around the world, this is historically confirmed. But as in modern Russia, no medieval bribe-taker would have thought of it. because they built it? ". And you say ...
        1. Altona
          Altona 16 October 2015 17: 43 New
          0
          Quote: bhdir1946
          . But as in modern Russia, not a single medieval bribe-taker would have thought of

          --------------------
          In the countries of "developed democracy" theft is legalized and an order of magnitude more, moreover, it is veiled that you will not notice it ...
      6. avdkrd
        avdkrd 16 October 2015 13: 06 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        You will not live, in Russia they took bribes at all times. This is ineradicable, downtime of a human vice, as well as the desire to eat deliciously.

        Why such a clarification about Russia? Like in the West, nobody and never? What training manual do you use?
        I immediately remembered a joke:
        The captain noticed that the boatswain was drunk and made an entry in the magazine - The boatswain was drunk today
        The next day he reads in a magazine - The captain was sober today!
      7. Anatoly_1959
        Anatoly_1959 16 October 2015 14: 08 New
        +1
        why so? It all depends on upbringing. Children are born completely clean and only upbringing makes them one way or another. If the state puts at its head the two words “Justice” and “Truth”, I assure you, everything will change in 50 years. The USSR is an example of this. Only then was the first word (theoretically, of course) and there was practically no second; it was replaced by "Expediency". For the Russian spirit, as it seems to me, these words are the basis of life and philosophy. Not finding no truth, no justice people either get drunk or become a cynic with a predatory grin. At such a time we live. But I want to believe, since there is no God, there may be humanity.
      8. Aleks28
        Aleks28 16 October 2015 15: 17 New
        +2
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Do not live, in Russia bribes were taken at all times.

        And where didn’t they take it? (Or they don’t take it).
        1. SibSlavRus
          SibSlavRus 16 October 2015 17: 29 New
          0
          They will not take it where there is real fear and futility due to confiscation and liquidation.

          I’m ready to argue with anyone, dear: enter the execution and total confiscation (from all who had even indirectly from this)
          just a couple of years !!! In the form of an experiment, so to speak. Without idiotic extenuating circumstances.
          And these types of crimes will be a thing of the past!

          The law can be adopted by anyone in a referendum. And the answer-question is simple: "And who opposes" burning with a hot iron "and why? A lot of people who do not understand who and how authorized bad and incompetent personalities who usurped power."
          1. Aleks28
            Aleks28 16 October 2015 20: 51 New
            +1
            Quote: SibSlavRus

            I’m ready to argue with anyone, dear: enter the execution and total confiscation (from all who had even indirectly from this)
            just a couple of years !!! In the form of an experiment, so to speak. Without idiotic extenuating circumstances.
            And these types of crimes will be a thing of the past!

            Has it helped in China? wink
      9. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 16 October 2015 15: 38 New
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        in Russia, bribes have been taken at all times. This is ineradicable, downtime of a human vice, as well as the desire to eat deliciously.

        Did you manage in Singapore? Maybe with us - hang, hang and hang? Well, if the other way to unlearn theft can not?
        Currently, Singapore, a tough authoritarian state, occupies a leading position in the world ratings for the absence of corruption, economic freedom and the level of development. Of course, it is difficult to compare a small island state with a population of 4 million people with immense Russia with a different history and traditions. But Singapore's example shows how, thanks to political will, effective anti-corruption legislation and an incorruptible independent agency, corruption can be reduced to a very low level in just a few years.
        http://sudanet.ru/borba_s_corrupciei_v_singapure

        There, they said yesterday - in Moscow Metrostroy, a third of the lard was "slard". But only Sobyanin opened new stations, told how everything would be cool and in chocolate. Surely this "snooped" from Sobyanin was standing behind him, she was giving the scissors a ribbon to cut - to open a new station. What is it like? One station opened, one "slyardi"? I would be offended by Sobyanin purely humanly. And in a purely human way he would have avenged himself so that that wise guy prayed: "Better put on 8500 years !!!!"
      10. SibSlavRus
        SibSlavRus 16 October 2015 17: 12 New
        +3
        To the classic "fools and roads" and "what to do?" I want to add: how do these moral monsters get into power ?! And what to do with them.
        After all, you will kill the creature, but they will give it as a human being.

        And some are surprised that living in Moscow and other “centers” in one country is sickening.

        Expression: "Maybe Kutuzov was still right when he said that to save Russia, you need to burn Moscow?"

        But an effective qualitative method, in addition to the "mass executions of enemies of the people and those involved," is not visible.
      11. gladcu2
        gladcu2 16 October 2015 17: 47 New
        0
        Alexander Romanov

        With the modern and basically outdated system of the administrative apparatus, both in the Russian Federation and in many other states, there is a huge network of functionaries from the government. Which are only for performing an absolutely insignificant, small function, they are ready to demand a bribe.

        How far the situation went into negative in the Russian Federation, I can only judge by the publications.

        But from personal experience I confidently affirm. By computer, up to 80% of the administrative staff, in the near future, can be sent for free bread.
        And from here and cut off the corrupt component.
      12. Igluxnumx
        Igluxnumx 16 October 2015 19: 50 New
        0
        The desire to eat deliciously is quite natural. But you have to earn a tasty grub, and not rely on a freebie.
      13. oracul
        oracul 17 October 2015 08: 08 New
        0
        No need to exaggerate. To eradicate this defect, you need, firstly, to sweat, and secondly, for quite some time. Honor almost a third of a century of rampant "democracy" led to the fact that all branches of government are overloaded with "business people" who make money. Fortunately, the ideologists of the primary accumulation of capital not only forgive this, but also encourage it. It is necessary to clean the power of such personnel, the rest will calm down. The example of Singapore in this regard is indicative. But, if they are just starting to move in this direction, as the cries are already rising, it will not work, let’s repeat the 37th year, violating “democracy”. And finally, thirdly, what do you want to say that there was no corruption in the US or the EU? It is definitely there, but it is covered with white clothes, for example, lobbying, they try not to remind about it once again. And only in case of scandal recognition through gritted teeth. It’s just that such a culture of relationships is formed, when the idea of ​​certain opportunities is based on, well, if you didn’t manage to achieve what you want, then this is your problem.
      14. Evpatiy.
        Evpatiy. 18 October 2015 00: 33 New
        0
        He seems to be not going to live here! He is preparing a “straw” to land softly in the west!
    2. Throw
      Throw 16 October 2015 06: 41 New
      +18
      "I do not take a bribe, it offends me for Russia!"

      That is why Vereshchagin did not give anyone a machine gun. There is no way without him ...

      PS. For good, such notes need to be accompanied by links to sources.
      1. Manul
        Manul 16 October 2015 09: 25 New
        +1
        Quote: Lance

        PS. For good, such notes need to be accompanied by links to sources.

        good I agree. The degree of your and public indignation surges, and in the depths of yourself there is a thought - what if they throw up the stuff of liberal grant-eaters to “warm up” the society?
      2. bondarencko
        bondarencko 16 October 2015 14: 23 New
        +3
        No, you need two machine guns. One will overheat.
    3. ronin201
      ronin201 16 October 2015 07: 05 New
      0
      According to IT, there are very strong specialists in the Russian Federation, but there are no organizing structures. You don’t need to invest in IT (here I agree with this reason) the industry feeds itself and develops, the main thing is not to interfere. Forum users confuse IT and microelectronics. Here it is necessary to invest in microelectronics (in the future, nanoelectronics). It is necessary to invest and develop into communication communication systems (which, in principle, is happening).

      Presumably, according to this logic of the Russian Federation, it is proposed to conquer half the world for the promotion of its goods. By the same logic, right now in many countries of the world there should be Chinese, Japanese and South Korean troops

      The author, Japan has strong forces and technology, plus is an ally of the United States like South Korea, China has the first and third largest armed forces and has almost captured Africa Southeast Asia. what do you disagree with? buck hegemony is stupidly supported by the us army.

      And if we suddenly need a quality information product, then we can always ... buy it.

      An "informational" product can be done by yourself nothing complicated, but there is a time factor when you need now and immediately and not wait 5 years, for example. from scratch an OS such as Windows for example (by the way, it is used in the center of the Ministry of Defense)

      We’ll be silent about the fact that with the destruction of our own IT industry, you can put an end to the domestic defense industry,

      Again, do not confuse IT and microelectronics. IT is software, maintenance, creation, modernization. Hardware support; creation of a software interface for microelectronics; for communication systems.

      Wonderful logic. Why train programmers if they leave anyway.

      This is not logic, this is the bitter truth, with talented scientists a complete analogy. If the state cannot create similar comfort conditions as the west, then it loses personnel ... there are two ways out: close the exit for valuable specialists, create better conditions. I think it’s preferable to close the exit, because creating conditions is very expensive.
      1. afdjhbn67
        afdjhbn67 16 October 2015 08: 01 New
        +9
        Quote: ronin201
        perspective nanoelectronics)


        Do not touch Nano, this is sacred, this is Chubais laughing
        1. ronin201
          ronin201 16 October 2015 08: 12 New
          +17
          It was nonsense to appoint Chubais over nanoindustry projects, this is like black PR for a promising direction. for stubborn nano - this is the future, graphene for example - this is nanotechnology
        2. samara-58
          samara-58 16 October 2015 19: 14 New
          0
          Oh, I can’t !!!!!!! good laughing
      2. Rusich is not from Kiev
        Rusich is not from Kiev 16 October 2015 08: 07 New
        +2
        Hmm, this is not the case with your brother?))))
      3. Kalmar
        Kalmar 16 October 2015 08: 43 New
        +9
        An "informational" product can be done by yourself nothing complicated, but there is a time factor when you need now and immediately and not wait 5 years, for example. from scratch an OS such as Windows for example (by the way, it is used in the center of the Ministry of Defense)

        Hrenase, nothing complicated. To write your browser or a web server there - yes, it is quite feasible. But creating your own DBMS or an entire OS from scratch is a task of enormous complexity, requiring huge resources. And yes, the "Windows-type OS" of the Ministry of Defense is MSVS, which is made by adding Red Hat Linux, i.e. never from scratch at all.

        This is not logic, this is the bitter truth

        Dramatize. I myself work in this area; around me there are a lot of sensible IT specialists of all stripes. Over the hill in my memory, only two of them left.

        there are two options: close the exit to valuable specialists, create better conditions. I think it’s preferable to close the exit

        A masterpiece. Does a person strive to develop himself, to make the greatest possible contribution to the industry, and as a reward to him is a ban on leaving? This, of course, will be a powerful incentive for IT employees :) You think right in the spirit of our lawmakers; to any incomprehensible garbage - only two reactions: raise taxes or ban completely.
        1. ronin201
          ronin201 16 October 2015 08: 58 New
          +2

          Does a person strive to develop himself, to make the greatest possible contribution to the industry, and as a reward to him is a ban on leaving?

          a person receives 100 thousand rubles, for example, it’s you, they offer you 10 - 20 thousand dollars with housing in California in Google. will you stay?


          But creating your own DBMS or an entire OS from scratch is a task of enormous complexity, requiring huge resources. And yes, the "Windows-type OS" of the Ministry of Defense is MSVS, which is made by adding Red Hat Linux, i.e. never from scratch at all.

          5 years it has been exaggerated, my thought is why reinvent the wheel when you can improve the current one.
          1. IS-80
            IS-80 16 October 2015 09: 22 New
            0
            Quote: ronin201
            5 years it has been exaggerated, my thought is why reinvent the wheel when you can improve the current one.

            No matter how you improve your bike, you won’t get a spaceship from it.
          2. Kalmar
            Kalmar 16 October 2015 09: 39 New
            +7
            a person receives 100 thousand rubles, for example, it’s you, they offer you 10 - 20 thousand dollars with housing in California in Google. will you stay?

            It’s hard to judge. I was offered only Vancouver, well, a thousand dollars was less (although much more than here). Stayed ))

            You argue from the perspective of the "economic man" A. Smith. A real person takes into account not only salaries, but also a bunch of factors.

            Again, in the United States, a doctor, for example, also receives more than in Russia than in Russia, but I don’t see a mass exodus of medical personnel in the United States. You don’t have to think so bad about IT employees that, they say, you can even lure them with a wad of dollars to hell.

            5 years it has been exaggerated, my thought is why reinvent the wheel when you can improve the current one.

            I agree. I also do not like the idea of ​​developing from scratch: cool, of course, but almost always unrealizable. Here you just need to decide what you want to ultimately achieve: independence from Western suppliers, the development of some competencies, etc.
            1. ronin201
              ronin201 16 October 2015 09: 46 New
              -1

              that, they say, you can even lure them with a wad of dollars to hell.

              By no means :) just with simple truths I wanted to show that not everything is safe and some are leaving and very talented ... and not to hell but to google fellow Sergey Brin is one of the founders by the way ...

              A real person takes into account not only salaries, but also a bunch of factors.

              family relocation, social benefits, citizenship, a paid round-trip ticket every month? and so? smile
              1. fzr1000
                fzr1000 16 October 2015 10: 38 New
                +2
                S. Brin was in the United States at the age of 6. His dad took him there, who were “oppressed” by anti-Semites in Moscow. Although a bunch of Jews worked in the defense industry and in the nuclear industry. And then there is such a crime before the "chosen ones".
            2. Koshel2901
              Koshel2901 16 October 2015 10: 42 New
              0
              Judging by himself, he seems to have bought
              1. ronin201
                ronin201 16 October 2015 11: 31 New
                +3
                envy is poor quality
          3. Kalmar
            Kalmar 16 October 2015 09: 39 New
            +2
            a person receives 100 thousand rubles, for example, it’s you, they offer you 10 - 20 thousand dollars with housing in California in Google. will you stay?

            It’s hard to judge. I was offered only Vancouver, well, a thousand dollars was less (although much more than here). Stayed ))

            You argue from the perspective of the "economic man" A. Smith. A real person takes into account not only salaries, but also a bunch of factors.

            Again, in the United States, a doctor, for example, also receives more than in Russia than in Russia, but I don’t see a mass exodus of medical personnel in the United States. You don’t have to think so bad about IT employees that, they say, you can even lure them with a wad of dollars to hell.

            5 years it has been exaggerated, my thought is why reinvent the wheel when you can improve the current one.

            I agree. I also do not like the idea of ​​developing from scratch: cool, of course, but almost always unrealizable. Here you just need to decide what you want to ultimately achieve: independence from Western suppliers, the development of some competencies, etc.
            1. gladcu2
              gladcu2 16 October 2015 18: 30 New
              +4
              Kalmar

              Doctors in the US should be tested. State admission. Passing testing using self-training is not possible. It is necessary to take an official course, pay for training, and most importantly, spend your life time. Once you have received education in the country of origin, you need to spend another 5 years on state tests.

              This is not a computer programmer for you who is not required to have licenses and certificates. It is enough to fluently communicate in English, which is actually facilitated by the specialty itself.

              And for talents traveling abroad, there is a simple way of motivation.

              He worked out his free education at home, and then blow there where the wind blows.

              As a rule, as soon as a person gets a job in a specialty, ambitions unfold in the right direction.
          4. Archon
            Archon 16 October 2015 14: 06 New
            0
            even if you earn 20 thousand rubles as a research assistant in Russia, still very few people will want to go to the West, into the unknown. only a few units.
            Although this is not enough, but if you think about it, then this is enough
        2. IS-80
          IS-80 16 October 2015 09: 22 New
          +1
          Quote: Kalmar
          But creating your own DBMS or an entire OS from scratch is a task of enormous complexity, requiring huge resources.

          There is no huge complexity there. There are high costs of man hours. This is if you do something comparable with Linux and Windows. If you need Skynet tady yes. smile
          1. Kalmar
            Kalmar 16 October 2015 09: 40 New
            +2
            There is no huge complexity there. There are high costs of man hours.

            Complexity - it is precisely measured in human hours. The more difficult the task, the more / longer you need to love it.
          2. Kalmar
            Kalmar 16 October 2015 09: 40 New
            0
            There is no huge complexity there. There are high costs of man hours.

            Complexity - it is precisely measured in human hours. The more difficult the task, the more / longer you need to love it.
            1. IS-80
              IS-80 16 October 2015 09: 53 New
              0
              Quote: Kalmar
              Complexity - it is precisely measured in human hours. The more difficult the task, the more / longer you need to love it.

              You can say for sure, plus or minus a year, how many human hours do you need to create artificial intelligence? What about a fusion reactor? And the space elevator? smile
              1. Kalmar
                Kalmar 16 October 2015 10: 25 New
                -2
                You can say for sure, plus or minus a year, how many human hours do you need to create artificial intelligence? What about a fusion reactor? And the space elevator?

                This is not for me, it is for experts in the relevant fields who are aware of the level of development of the required technologies and the pace of development of the missing areas.

                Well, decide on the task: AI has long been created in a variety of forms, the banal barcode scanner already works on AI algorithms. And there are even thermonuclear reactors, they just have negative efficiency so far :)
                1. IS-80
                  IS-80 16 October 2015 10: 37 New
                  0
                  Quote: Kalmar
                  AI has long been created in a variety of forms, the banal barcode scanner is already working on AI algorithms.

                  This is not artificial intelligence.
                  Quote: Kalmar
                  And even thermonuclear reactors are, they just have efficiency so far negative

                  That's it.
                  Quote: Kalmar
                  This is not for me, it is for experts in the relevant fields who are aware of the level of development of the required technologies and the pace of development of the missing areas.

                  Yeah, only I have not found exact numbers anywhere in any sources. It’s your whole complexity that is precisely measured in human hours. smile
                  1. Kalmar
                    Kalmar 16 October 2015 10: 52 New
                    +1
                    This is not artificial intelligence.

                    Read carefully. Well I wrote - "on AI algorithms." And so, many varieties of AI objectively exist; the fact that they do not personally meet your expectations is a completely different conversation.

                    That's it.

                    So what? Reactor? Reactor. Thermonuclear? Quite. There was no talk about efficiency, do not distort.

                    It’s your whole complexity that is precisely measured in human hours.

                    Firstly, we are talking about IT; and here everything really revolves around these same human hours. If you need exactly to measure complexity, you still will not find a fundamentally different metric.
                    1. IS-80
                      IS-80 16 October 2015 11: 15 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Kalmar
                      Read carefully. Well I wrote - "on AI algorithms." And so, many varieties of AI objectively exist; the fact that they do not personally meet your expectations is a completely different conversation.

                      Oh how. Are these for example?
                      Quote: Kalmar
                      So what? Reactor? Reactor. Thermonuclear? Quite. There was no talk about efficiency, do not distort.

                      About the efficiency was not, quite right, but you distort the tearing the phrases out of context. smile
                      Quote: Kalmar
                      Firstly, we are talking about IT; and here everything really revolves around these same human hours. If you need to measure complexity, then you still will not find a fundamentally different metric.

                      In the algorithmic theory of information, the Kolmogorov complexity of an object (such as text) is a measure of the computing resources needed to accurately determine this object. smile
                      1. Kalmar
                        Kalmar 16 October 2015 11: 34 New
                        +2
                        Oh how. Are these for example?

                        Of the ones that are rumored: Deep Blue (which is chess), IBM Watson. Yes, almost any computer game has its own AI, after all.

                        About the efficiency was not, quite right, but you distort the tearing the phrases out of context.

                        I just try not to stick the whole post into the quote, otherwise the multi-book :)

                        In the algorithmic theory of information, the Kolmogorov complexity of an object (such as text) is a measure of the computing resources needed to accurately determine this object.

                        No question, you can. Who will create the OS? Person. Therefore, in this definition, it will be a computing resource. What does he spend on this OS in the first place? That's right, his time during which he is working on this project. So, there is a person, there is his watch, which gives us the desired human hours. Questions, suggestions?

                        And yes, I’m not saying that labor costs in human hours are an absolutely complete, accurate and comprehensive metric, but there’s still no other suitable for practical application.
                  2. gladcu2
                    gladcu2 16 October 2015 18: 38 New
                    0
                    IS-80

                    About 10 years ago there were already the beginnings of artificial intelligence. On the Internet, you could talk to a robot. Not all he answered in hit. But sometimes seriously surprised. Recently, I have never met such interlocutors.

                    Well, that AI, it will appear as a result of the evolution of computer programs.
                    Often, developers working on their tasks may not realize that by combining the result they will get AI.
        3. 9lvariag
          9lvariag 19 October 2015 00: 43 New
          0
          MSVS, nix OS, which in Red Riding Hood with its gadgets in FIG?
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. berkut2123
        berkut2123 16 October 2015 09: 19 New
        0
        I will tell you so it is necessary to invest in it, otherwise the human resource will leak. but it’s necessary to invest smart money and a lot of money with us. You think so easily in the IT sphere and cleanly, but nefiga everything is much worse there than in other areas. the case of one well-known cinema resource is proof of this. The "effective" management has already made it there. that is, in many areas our managers took our country in handles. and this ombudsman is one of them.

        I do not insult anyone; I simply state a fact.
        1. gladcu2
          gladcu2 16 October 2015 20: 26 New
          0
          berkut2123

          Well, what do you think it means to invest. Money and naked heifers at the feet of the elect.

          Any normal specialist should be enough. Plus a package of benfits.

          And geniuses. And what about geniuses? ... Who the hell are they for if they are expensive. Having a dozen normal ones is better to deal with than a single genius. Although if a genius also understands this, then maybe the matter is not so bad.
          1. berkut2123
            berkut2123 16 October 2015 22: 39 New
            0
            in genius, everyone has been working for a long time at the cool state offices. and programmers and other specialists there are few of them most of the people with a programmer’s diploma are those who don’t understand anything in the code, they just stupidly copy the code from an Internet and there are few good ones and they are worth their weight in gold and I’ll tell you about money to invest in improving data management and there is still much to do with the endless land, and there are few people because all normal programmers are still being dismantled at the training stage, and that riffraff that does not know how to do normally only standard code from textbooks or the Internet. there are no geniuses, there are simply good specialists who can work and work well with code and many other things in it. only they do not want to work for 20 thousand when they know that they can have large amounts on freelance or due to "passive" income.
    4. afdjhbn67
      afdjhbn67 16 October 2015 07: 59 New
      +9
      Quote: Johnny51
      WITH HIS MAJESTY OFFICER ..


      By the way, about big officials - only the fur coat Yakunin left in Buryatia, the electric train fell 2,8 times cheaper, is there a connection ??
      1. gaura
        gaura 16 October 2015 08: 50 New
        +6
        Coincidence? I don’t think so! (with)
      2. Army soldier2
        Army soldier2 16 October 2015 09: 19 New
        +1
        Probably not.
      3. The comment was deleted.
    5. Mareman Vasilich
      Mareman Vasilich 16 October 2015 09: 10 New
      +16
      Kamrad, it is no secret for a long time that right now we have the most dangerous enemy inside. Fish always rots from the head. This head was cut short with impunity. Fear is lost. Impunity breeds irresponsibility as soon as the fear of responsibility is restored, everything will work out. In general, real landings will be returned, and order will return.
      1. Vladimir Pozlnyakov
        Vladimir Pozlnyakov 16 October 2015 09: 34 New
        0
        Thank! Joseph Vissarionych!
      2. VseDoFeNi
        VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 14: 19 New
        0
        Quote: Mareman Vasilich
        Fish always rots from the head.

        This dead rot, gangrene of the head does not happen. Russia is very lively.
        1. Mareman Vasilich
          Mareman Vasilich 18 October 2015 10: 51 New
          +1
          Where and in what places?
      3. demel2
        demel2 16 October 2015 17: 28 New
        +1
        Sorry, but who will return the real plantings? Do you think that this fraternity will start planting itself? Utopia. We must push this whole shushara with us. But here, too, we must not break firewood, as in Ukraine.
    6. arane
      arane 16 October 2015 09: 37 New
      +4
      Quote: Johnny51
      You know, it seems to me that the war with the United States and its allies is crap compared to the war with HIS MAJESTY OFFICER ... Not a single external enemy can do such harm as HE. If I live to see the moment when officials in Russia say: “I don’t take a bribe, I’m offended for Russia!”, I’ll assume that life has not been lived in vain.


      Eh, only if you are Duncan MacLeod ....
      What interests me more is not what this type says, but why didn’t he immediately end up in the queue of the labor exchange?
    7. ava09
      ava09 16 October 2015 11: 35 New
      0
      Quote: Johnny51
      If I live to see the moment when officials in Russia say: “I don’t take a bribe, I’m offended for Russia!”, I’ll consider that life was not in vain.


      Want to live up to the triumph of MORALITY and HARMONY? This is called PARADISE on Earth.
    8. Lelek
      Lelek 16 October 2015 11: 41 New
      +1
      Quote: Johnny51
      No external enemy is capable of doing such harm as HE.


      I agree with you. The essence of this misfortune is that sometimes the most odious types materialize in OH (s). We do not have selection criteria for the “official people”. And in the upper echelons of this class, characters from those 90s often sit and they live “according to concepts”, and not according to the laws, covering and supporting each other. And how convenient is the official (the former godfather) a halfwit subordinate, "do with him what hosh ...". IMHO, somehow.
    9. Lexeus
      Lexeus 16 October 2015 12: 39 New
      +1
      Something I am in doubt that someone will survive (((Everyone knows about these huds and their bribes, but what's the point? They are not hot or cold from this ........
    10. Lukich
      Lukich 16 October 2015 13: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: Johnny51
      If I live to see the moment when officials in Russia say: “I don’t take a bribe, I’m offended for Russia!”, I’ll consider that life was not in vain.

      then you need to become immortal
    11. antoXa
      antoXa 16 October 2015 13: 51 New
      +2
      Johnny51
      We have very different officials, there are those who don’t take bribes and who are insulted for Russia, it’s just apparently you personally haven’t met such people.
    12. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 16 October 2015 15: 47 New
      0
      And in Kolyma there is still room for such pido ... ov. ?????????????????? am
    13. avdkrd
      avdkrd 16 October 2015 16: 35 New
      +3
      Quote: Johnny51
      You know, it seems to me that the war with the United States and its allies is crap compared to the war with HIS MAJESTY OFFICER ... Not a single external enemy can do such harm as HE. If I live to see the moment when officials in Russia say: “I don’t take a bribe, I’m offended for Russia!”, I’ll assume that life has not been lived in vain.

      Unfortunately, the capitalist structure of society is not compatible with your dream. It is not a matter of patriotism or its absence, but of human nature. There are no officials (from the word at all) who have no preferences from their activities, not necessarily kickbacks, often the possession of insider information is enough to ensure even their grandchildren. Agree that it’s stupid to be at the source and not get drunk. America cannot be corrupt at all, but most often their corruption is directed outward - to give a bribe (to collect incriminating evidence, to press through special services) to a Russian (German, Indian) official to break up an enterprise (have grown, education) and get money quite legitimate under American law from a lobbying company , which in turn is funded by the customer. All over the world, not one large project is not being implemented without a corruption component. Corruption is present in everything, even within corporations. The growth in the service of large companies is in one way or another connected with corruption (nepotism is also a form of corruption), with rare exceptions. Look where the Biden kids are attached, and indeed the most outstanding case with Bush's younger son. How can it be explained, apart from corruption, that a person with the intelligence of an oyster has become the president of the United States? There were no better candidates? Not funny. But with all this, the United States would have torn to pieces together with relatives and casual acquaintances of the one who would say from a high rostrum what Marinichev said. Calling it harmful to invest in your own IT specialists and the industry beyond ethical standards, at least in your own country. A person who has the audacity to make such statements does not have the right to even come close to state structures and even to the media. I can’t understand his status - Internet ombudsman under the President of the Russian Federation ?? Is this a post? Does the president share his point of view? How did he get to a meeting of the Public Chamber if his statements are anti-Russian. He is not an official, he is an enemy. One could just ask the official, and this is a misunderstanding - a "public" activist. I would like this activity to be suppressed. Where is that part of the society whose interests he represents in the Public Chamber?
      1. demel2
        demel2 16 October 2015 17: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: avdkrd
        Is this a post? Does the president share his point of view? How did he get to a meeting of the Public Chamber if his statements are anti-Russian.

        A few years ago, when he was the Minister of Education, an activist from the cooperative Lake, also expressed the opinion that computer science is not needed, since we do not have much success in IT, and he introduced the exam, and no one called a traitor at the labor exchange not worth it. Here and think the president shares his views or not.
    14. SibSlavRus
      SibSlavRus 16 October 2015 17: 40 New
      0
      Friend! And why the authorities stubbornly do not want to use such a tool of direct will of us as a REFERENDUM ?!

      Faith and hope in relation to the State Duma and SovFed are already exhausted.

      And all you need is one referendum and three questions: the death penalty, confiscation, the extension of the right to self-defense.
      And after all, this alone will streamline a lot.
    15. starshina78
      starshina78 17 October 2015 15: 22 New
      +2
      Personally, I am not surprised at anything in our reality! Neither action, nor inaction, nor words, nor silence! Just enough! Wrecking comes from the very top. What is not a decision made by our Government is to the detriment of the country and its inhabitants. This IT is an ombudsman, still flowers. The budget for 2016 is the model of state wrecking proposed by our Duma by the Government (it is unconstitutional, as it violates the postulate enshrined in the Constitution that Russia is a social country). Take at least the decision to index the pension by 4%, and not by the amount of inflation (presumably 12%), and in addition not to pay it to working pensioners. You might think that retired people work because of the time to kill. These ministers would try to retire at 12500! I set this amount due to the fact that almost all the workers in the workshop in which I work, those who left this year received, plus - minus one hundred rubles, that amount. I leave in December, and I will be the twelfth in a year, and only from our workshop. An employee of the human resources department, in her words, was tormented with applying for pensions for this year, 7-8 percent of workers at the plant retire this year (born in 1955!). And in the following as well. Young people do not want to work as turners, milling, drilling, and so on. Even employees of engineering, and then in years. The factory is not prestigious! It’s better for a manager to sell Chinese underpants over the Internet.
      Also, the budget of 2016 does not provide for an increase in payments to Honorary Donors, indexation of maternity capital, etc., etc. . I don’t know how in your work collectives, how or where, but at our factory the Government is fired in the tail and mane. Almost everyone says the same thing: "They found money for Syria, we sent a helmet to the Donbass, but we couldn’t find it! Well, we'll see nothing in the elections!" Who will they vote for?
    16. ups
      ups 17 October 2015 19: 14 New
      0
      And what can I say about this, for example, I sent CCIE a resume to a domestic network equipment company, they just didn’t answer, although they needed specialists of my level, forgive the stupid silence it looks more like they just make us ....
    17. Yars
      Yars 18 October 2015 16: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Johnny51
      You know, it seems to me that the war with the United States and its allies is crap compared to the war with HIS MAJESTY OFFICER ... Not a single external enemy can do such harm as HE. If I live to see the moment when officials in Russia say: “I don’t take a bribe, I’m offended for Russia!”, I’ll assume that life has not been lived in vain.

      show the country where officials do not take bribes ?! I will disappoint you, there is no such country!
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 16 October 2015 06: 32 New
    +17
    Hello, I am a traitor!..One more ... Yes, how many of you?
  3. Russian jacket
    Russian jacket 16 October 2015 06: 32 New
    +12
    Hmm ... A generation of the most efficient managers, ulcerate them ..... Everyone just loot and measure .. And if it’s profitable, and the margin is huge, then they don’t hesitate to sell their mother .... am
  4. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 16 October 2015 06: 33 New
    +9
    fuck in 404, such figures ... in the team saake il paras.
  5. snifer
    snifer 16 October 2015 06: 35 New
    +13
    in Russia oh how the change of bureaucratic apparatus has ripened
    1. ronin201
      ronin201 16 October 2015 08: 04 New
      +5
      In Russia, it is necessary to introduce courses of logic, and prohibit "cheers-patriotism." And listen to specialists and not populists.
      1. VseDoFeNi
        VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 14: 12 New
        0
        Quote: ronin201
        And listen to specialists and not populists.

        Exactly, exactly, but where to get them, all in the USA. Bernanke, Obama and other rockefellers. laughing
    2. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 16: 40 New
      0
      Quote: snifer
      in Russia oh how the change of bureaucratic apparatus has ripened

      Do you want to rotate bureaucrats? laughing
  6. Born in USSR
    Born in USSR 16 October 2015 06: 37 New
    +10
    These nits got it already. 5th column in action. It's time to enter specifically rastrel for treason homeland. And to cleanse the government of these grief advisers, you love go and live there. Yeah right now, it shits here, nobody needs it. .
    1. Vladimir Pozlnyakov
      Vladimir Pozlnyakov 16 October 2015 09: 44 New
      +2
      At the end of the 70s, on the Kolyma site of the mine where they had to work, the “personnel” was represented by banned Bandera, Vlasov, murderers and only one dissident with the “persecutor” Diplomat (defiantly wrote out “Vedomosti of the Supreme Court of the USSR”)! Even on Kolom this 5-column evil spirits were few, the rest were in nuthouses! KGB worked !!!
  7. sa-ag
    sa-ag 16 October 2015 06: 43 New
    +1
    There was an article on the giktims, there comments are much more interesting to read :-)
  8. evil partisan
    evil partisan 16 October 2015 06: 47 New
    +7
    It so happened that, although not being an IT specialist, for a number of personal circumstances, I have a good idea of ​​affairs in this industry in the Russian Federation. I can honestly say that she is one of the best in the world, and if she had been allowed to develop normally, and not strangled, she would have become an absolute leader.

    I confirm from the foregoing personal experience. Our programmers have created SUCH a tool for processing and visualizing control results, which, against their background, the Germans look just pathetic amateurs request . It was possible to view control data in the program of our German competitors repeat ... Bullshit is complete. yes The Americans, they say, are no better either ...
    1. bairat
      bairat 16 October 2015 07: 39 New
      -7
      And why have our experts still not created an analogue of vindos? What did the Americans do in '86, is there something really complicated there?
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 16 October 2015 07: 47 New
        +16
        And why have our experts still not created an analogue of vindos?

        Who told you they did not create? The point is not the OS itself, but the set of programs and services for it, compatibility with peripheral equipment, and so on. YES, operating systems are very complex in structure. And an even bigger problem is its implementation and distribution. To make it clearer, try transplanting your mom or father from your usual Windows to Linux. And write off how much time, effort and nerves it will take.
        1. VseDoFeNi
          VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 07: 54 New
          0
          Quote: Wedmak
          To make it clearer, try transplanting your mom or father from your usual Windows to Linux. And write off how much time, effort and nerves it will take.

          How long does it take to transfer a brow from a winmobile to an android? 10-15 minutes - bought a new device and that's it. laughing
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 16 October 2015 07: 56 New
            +5
            How long does it take to transfer a brow from a winmobile to an android? 10-15 minutes - bought a new device and that's it

            If everything was so simple. Do not confuse a narrowly targeted device with a multifunction computer. Okay, remove Windows, install Linux, now run our favorite 1 on it. Without a tambourine and crutches in the form of emulators figs will work.
            1. VseDoFeNi
              VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 08: 41 New
              +1
              Quote: Wedmak
              Okay, remove Windows, install Linux, now run our favorite 1s on it.

              Parents, speak? Or a corporate party? wink

              Quote: Wedmak
              Without a tambourine and crutches in the form of emulators figs will work.

              Find me an administrator who NORMALLY installs, sets up and runs 1s8 server + postgresql on a Unix machine? Or just postgrue under 1s on Unix?

              PS MAK OS to help you.
            2. IS-80
              IS-80 16 October 2015 09: 25 New
              0
              Quote: Wedmak
              Do not confuse a narrowly targeted device with a multifunction computer.

              Not so narrowly targeted. A very multifunctional.
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 16 October 2015 09: 32 New
                +2
                A very multifunctional.

                Connect it to the printer? And to the scanner? And run 1 on it? And replace the video accelerator (I didn’t knowingly write the video card)? Well, what can we say about connecting to machines and other mechanisms as a controller and control?
                1. IS-80
                  IS-80 16 October 2015 09: 47 New
                  -3
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  Connect it to the printer? And to the scanner? And run 1 on it? And replace the video accelerator (I didn’t knowingly write the video card)? Well, what can we say about connecting to machines and other mechanisms as a controller and control?

                  So what? You have used the word multifunctional. LOTS is NOT ALL. Do you need to explain further? You can give a bunch of examples of what the smartphone still cannot. For example, chop wood and make coffee. But in fact it is a multifunctional device. And by the way, why do you need to change the video card on it? smile
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 16 October 2015 14: 15 New
                    +1
                    So what? You have used the word multifunctional. LOTS is NOT ALL. Do you need to explain further?

                    Maybe I didn’t put it right. In fact, a standard computer can be turned into anything, if there were expansion cards and corresponding software. And it’s not difficult.
                    What will you do with a smartphone? In fact, yes, the same computer. But it is already imprisoned for a certain hardware and a certain version of software. You don’t put a mobile OS from Microsoft on a phone born with Android. Although there are certainly craftsmen, but it is necessary to undo a lot of internal parts and have a very advanced file.
                    1. Scraptor
                      Scraptor 17 October 2015 21: 15 New
                      0
                      The word "programs" was found on page 22 times "hardware" 2 times. One thing you have is the second kind of red-hot ...
                2. VseDoFeNi
                  VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 13: 19 New
                  0
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  And replace the video accelerator (I didn’t knowingly write the video card)?

                  And on an eplovsky computer?
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 16 October 2015 14: 17 New
                    0
                    And on an eplovsky computer?

                    Honestly, I’m not aware of it, I haven’t met it. But what can not be replaced?
                    1. VseDoFeNi
                      VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 14: 25 New
                      0
                      Quote: Wedmak
                      But what can not be replaced?

                      His architecture is closed. and bsdi based OS. But for work people are not overjoyed.
                      Not 1s, of course. 1c, on a global scale, is a modest phenomenon. The same photoshop and other auto parts where, how cooler.
                      1. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 16 October 2015 14: 29 New
                        0
                        The same photoshop and other auto parts where, how cooler.

                        Um. I heard about the graphics and OS, in the know, but after switching them to Intel processors, I thought the architecture was the same as PC.
                      2. Kalmar
                        Kalmar 16 October 2015 15: 14 New
                        -1
                        His architecture is closed. and OS based on BSDI

                        His architecture is ordinary, you can even put Windows, if you really want to. But the video accelerator / video card on most models is built-in, it’s really difficult to replace it without a soldering iron and a gas cutter)
                      3. Kalmar
                        Kalmar 16 October 2015 15: 14 New
                        -1
                        His architecture is closed. and OS based on BSDI

                        His architecture is ordinary, you can even put Windows, if you really want to. But the video accelerator / video card on most models is built-in, it’s really difficult to replace it without a soldering iron and a gas cutter)
                      4. saenara
                        saenara 17 October 2015 04: 48 New
                        0
                        Based on BSD, poppies have only user environment, the OS kernel and the graphics subsystem are original.
        2. bairat
          bairat 16 October 2015 07: 54 New
          +3
          It's not about my dad and mom, but the fact that almost all government agencies use hostile software, with all the consequences like espionage and other things. Before the period of aggravation of relations, it would seem that no one was bothered, but now they would be glad to refuse and nothing to replace. Why officials bells and whistles, the simplest analogue of Windows 86 can be created? I am not an expert, I just don’t understand.
          1. Rusich is not from Kiev
            Rusich is not from Kiev 16 October 2015 08: 10 New
            +2
            Quote: bairat
            b. Why officials bells and whistles, the simplest analogue of Windows 86 can be created?

            So created like. Why do not implement, another question.
            1. saenara
              saenara 16 October 2015 10: 10 New
              +3
              Because the creators of this software, unlike the melkosoft, do not bring something to anyone who needs suitcases.
          2. Wedmak
            Wedmak 16 October 2015 08: 15 New
            +6
            I am not an expert, I just don’t understand.

            I explain. No one needs any OS in its bare form. For it is necessary to create custom software, for work - viewing and editing documents, graphics programs, etc. But this is not even half the battle. What to do with terabytes of information in the format of "old" programs? And we are even talking about text documents. How to massively transfer them to a new format, a new OS and a new text editor? Problem.
            Further, the problem is in people, retraining is very, very difficult. Especially when at the same time you need to work and produce a product. Not everyone is able to figure it out quickly even with a simple text editor. That is why I gave an example of dad and mom - I ran into it myself.
            But in the end, who needs "the simplest analogue of Windows 86 of the year." To be? Yes, he gave up when there is a cart of various Linux distributions? But there are the same problems.
            I’m silent about connecting old devices (printers, scanners) to the new OS with a tambourine. Nobody wants to buy new ones, just because the OS has changed.

            There is something to replace. http://www.rosalab.ru/products/desktop True, this is based on the Linux kernel, but nevertheless it is at least somehow filed under government agencies. I tried this option in my company, but even 1С with the launch under Wine (Windows emulator) produced some glitches and had to be abandoned. Although mainly worked with a bang.
            1. VseDoFeNi
              VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 08: 33 New
              +2
              Quote: Wedmak
              How to massively transfer them to a new format, a new OS and a new text editor? Problem.

              Open source software largely solves the transition problem.

              Quote: Wedmak
              There is something to replace. http://www.rosalab.ru/products/desktop True, this is based on the Linux kernel,

              www.distrowatch.com
              1. Kalmar
                Kalmar 16 October 2015 10: 31 New
                +1
                Open source software largely solves the transition problem.

                Not everywhere. Many government agencies have a lot of specialized software written strictly for Windows. There is nothing to replace it with, port to Linux - the whole story.

                Imagine, say, an old database on MS SQL Server with a bunch of storages, functions, triggers, storing gigabytes of necessary data. How long will it take to port it adequately to the same Postgre? And how much will it be?

                In principle, the problem is solved, of course, but the complexity and cost of the solution are a very serious obstacle.
                1. VseDoFeNi
                  VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 13: 23 New
                  0
                  Quote: Kalmar
                  Not everywhere.

                  Quote: VseDoFeNi
                  STR in many ways
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. bairat
              bairat 16 October 2015 08: 35 New
              0
              But it is impossible to make such an operational system that it would be friends with printers and read old archives? Not?
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 16 October 2015 09: 03 New
                +3
                But it is impossible to make such an operational system that it would be friends with printers and read old archives? Not?

                Can. Just conclude agreements with the holder of document formats (Adobe, for example), buy licenses for MS Office formats (if sold, the format is closed), hire a team of system programmers to write drivers for old devices, a network exchange stack, optimize this whole thing, etc. d. Well, before the heap, write your own blackjack software and ... Spend the money as a flight to Mars, I guarantee.
            4. saenara
              saenara 16 October 2015 10: 11 New
              0
              1C has a client for Linux.
          3. VseDoFeNi
            VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 08: 43 New
            0
            Quote: bairat
            It's not about my dad and mom, but the fact that almost all government agencies use hostile software,

            They have been using Openofis for a long time. ODF has GOST status ...
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 16 October 2015 09: 06 New
              +1
              Openofis, of course. We also use. Only in most organizations, the format of the documents used is still not ODF, but just the same DOC and XLS. And you apparently did not meet the complex documents of the latest versions of Exel-I, which this openofis opens as if before that they had scrolled in the washing machine.
              1. VseDoFeNi
                VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 09: 40 New
                0
                I met. No Save As Problem
                1. Kalmar
                  Kalmar 16 October 2015 11: 11 New
                  0
                  I met. No Save As Problem

                  The point is small - to teach users. It seems that garbage, but, in my experience, even such a modest retraining can cost unrealistic efforts and nerves :)
                  1. VseDoFeNi
                    VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 13: 40 New
                    0
                    Quote: Kalmar
                    The point is small - to teach users. It seems that garbage, but, in my experience, even such a modest retraining can cost unrealistic efforts and nerves :)

                    The openofisi interface is exactly the same as for MCO 2003. Not a problem, who needs to remember.
                    It is much worse to relearn for every new release of Microsoft. And relearn without tweeting.
                    1. Kalmar
                      Kalmar 16 October 2015 13: 55 New
                      0
                      The openofisi interface is exactly the same as for MCO 2003. Not a problem, who needs to remember.

                      I agree, but for some reason, anyway, in many offices its implementation is going wild. I do not presume to explain this phenomenon, I simply state the fact.
                      1. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 16 October 2015 14: 27 New
                        0
                        I do not presume to explain this phenomenon, I simply state the fact.

                        Chu, this is not a phenomenon. This is human laziness and stereotyped thinking. And the interface is not exactly the same, but similar. Some items are located in other places (even more logical than in the MSO), but the average accountant or manager, not finding the right menu item in a familiar place, falls into a stupor. He just does not know what to do next! It is clear that he needs to do his job, but he can’t turn on the brain and examine the neighboring menu items, recall the logic a little, spending 5-6 minutes on it!
                        But this is really a phenomenon: It seems that not a stupid person is doing his job well. And he has been working with a computer for several years. And this is not a grandmother, and not a miracle grown on cosmopolitan. And he cannot find the desired function in the menu. I poke a finger - Oh !! Miracle!! Saw !! Well, you're a programmer !! You know everything!!!!!
                        (emoticon with a machine gun, shoots everyone)
                      2. saenara
                        saenara 17 October 2015 04: 45 New
                        +1
                        According to my friends, administrative and repressive measures still help very well and the proposal to set up an office from you-know-who, but at the expense of the sufferer who does not know how to master Libre / OpenOffice :-)
                        Almost immediately after voicing the cost of the package, the experimental demonstrates outstanding development success :-)
                        But understanding from top management is required.
                    2. VseDoFeNi
                      VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 14: 35 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Kalmar
                      I do not presume to explain this phenomenon, I simply state the fact.

                      It all depends on the leadership.
                      EMNIP, one factory was heated by money for pirates in the early 70000s, the director said that I should not see this melkosoft anymore. And that's it, switched to Linux with the whole factory. The gendarmerie of France, more than XNUMX computers transferred to Linux ...
                      French police announced the complete transfer of their units to Linux. The director of the IT department of the French police, Colonel Nicolas Gerard, said this in an interview with France Presse.

                      "We will implement Linux on every working computer in all police departments within France. It is expected that this year from 5 to 8 thousand desktops will be transferred to Ubuntu, in the next 4 years 12-15 thousand computers will be transferred. Thus, the full transition will be completed by 2013-2014, "said Gerard.

                      Three main reasons are called that prompted the French police to switch to an open OS: firstly, police want to reduce local IT infrastructure reliance on Microsoft, Secondly, in France Linux was considered less demanding on computing resources and more promising, the third reason is called price factor.
          4. saenara
            saenara 16 October 2015 10: 44 New
            0
            Unfortunately, they are required to use it, but actually use a completely different commercial office.
            1. VseDoFeNi
              VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 13: 42 New
              0
              Quote: saenara
              Unfortunately, they are required to use it, but actually use a completely different commercial office.

              Take home the pirate MCO and you will be happy.
              1. saenara
                saenara 17 October 2015 04: 39 New
                0
                At my place and at work there is a pirate LibreOffice :-)

                And government agencies in most cases require data in xlsx / docx format, despite the fact that the law requires them to be accepted in ODF.
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Homo
      Homo 16 October 2015 11: 48 New
      +3
      Quote: bairat
      And why have our experts still not created an analogue of vindos?

      God forbid! Windows starting from the first version and up to 10 has the same bugs. And if you do something, then the analogue of anything, but not Windows. Windows crushed mass, marketing, advertising, but not quality, convenience, reliability and advancement!
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. fennekRUS
    fennekRUS 16 October 2015 08: 32 New
    +1
    Quote: wicked partisan
    The Americans, they say, are no better either ...

    Moreover, in terms of richness and accessibility of IT services, we are perhaps the clear leaders. Just used and do not notice it. Does a lot of people on this site sit at limit rates? Who has the line less than a megabit? Even in two-person firms there is a computer and the Internet. They also mention 1C (three times, over the left shoulder) - on Linux they say that they don’t go without crutches. A counter question, does it work right out of the box on windows? Or is it necessary to shaman too?
    These are the "competent" and sit at the helm. And instead of consulting with specialists, before opening their mouths, advertising slogans choke and quietly divide the budget.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 16 October 2015 09: 08 New
      0
      1С is still mentioned here (thrice quietly, over the left shoulder) - on Linux, the pier does not go without crutches. A counter question, does it work right out of the box on windows? Or is it necessary to shaman too?

      On the windows, at least the buttons of the modal windows do not move where it is not necessary. And everything works just from the second kick. On linukha it was also required to get a tambourine. All the same, it didn’t work normally, the jambs got out all the time.
  • koksalek
    koksalek 16 October 2015 06: 53 New
    +5
    Yes, every second Tatuped there is a mattress henchman, they sleep and see how else to cash in on Russia using their official powers, so that they burn alive in hell
  • s.melioxin
    s.melioxin 16 October 2015 07: 05 New
    +3
    The enemy, as they say, needs to know in person.
    Persons are known and their deeds are heard. Need political will. It will be solved and it seems to me that many problems will be removed.
  • VseDoFeNi
    VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 07: 08 New
    +6
    The general public was left with only one question - who put a person with similar views on the position of Ombudsman for the IT industry.

    The question is different - why the hell did they create this post ??? And without that, loafers divorced beyond measure.
    1. Junior, I
      Junior, I 16 October 2015 07: 22 New
      +4
      I agree. It’s time to clean it up, and the faster the less damage they cause Russia.
      1. VseDoFeNi
        VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 07: 37 New
        +2
        A lot where it’s time to clean. In Russia, the land is empty and the fields are overgrown, while office plankton has flooded Russian cities.
      2. Vladimir Pozlnyakov
        Vladimir Pozlnyakov 16 October 2015 09: 55 New
        0
        Exactly! In Kolyma there was only one camp left in Uttar near Magadan! The rest closed! Joseph Vissarionovich was right! And the "Solzhenitsyn" perverted the information about the sidelings with their "Gulags"! The author of libel would have received for his revelations about 10 years without the right of correspondence!
  • Pro100Igor
    Pro100Igor 16 October 2015 07: 10 New
    +6
    A kind of truth-seeker who considers his opinion almost a dogma. And what did this gentleman do to raise this industry, besides stating his not-so-distant opinion? But nothing. He has learned to grind only with his tongue.
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 16 October 2015 07: 15 New
    +5
    As an IT person I declare that when I meet this wise guy, I would explain to him with my hands what nonsense he is carrying. With 60's, sticks have already been inserted into the wheels of the entire IT industry, and now a "hero" has been discovered. I bet he didn’t see or hear anything more than Ms Word. Otherwise I would not talk about the "sandbox".
    1. ronin201
      ronin201 16 October 2015 07: 21 New
      -9
      For example, I Itshnik, what kind of sticks in wheels have you been inserted since the 60's? what is he saying wrong?
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 16 October 2015 07: 31 New
        +11
        What kind of sticks in wheels did you get in with 60?

        That is, for you, the destruction of Soviet electronics, coupled with the Soviet system software, are not sticks in the wheel? We had our own operating systems, had our own computers, and even began to develop our own global network. But for some figures, this seemed unnecessary and now we are sitting on foreign intellects and AMDs, working in Windows and looking at the descendant of Arpanet.
        what is he saying wrong?

        Uh ... what does he say right? Let's not train programmers and system engineers, will they go west anyway? And we better buy everything from there? Is this your way?
        For your information, just a month ago, we released the first Russian server with a Russian processor. New software is being written. And this bastard already wants to kill a newborn. I’m not talking about the Russian software market anymore, it’s hushed up everywhere that such technological products as antiviruses and text recognition systems are Russian. Give names or find yourself?
        1. ronin201
          ronin201 16 October 2015 07: 58 New
          -7

          That is, for you, the destruction of Soviet electronics

          IT is information technology, not electronics

          system software is not a stick in the wheel? We had our own operating systems, had our own computers, and even began to develop our own global network.

          Is system software assembler? no one destroyed him. DOS interfaces for assembler? Own DOS-based operating systems? this software is easily "restored" and it is difficult to destroy it ... That's it was the computers that no one destroyed them. "global network" do you mean the lines of the Ministry of Defense in case of an atomic war? in principle, the "Internet" is the same ... you yourself can create this global network in your garage, you need 2 computers and at least a two-wire cable

          Uh ... what does he say right?

          No need to invest in the IT industry is self-supporting. programmers run away from the country if they are promised money. it makes no sense to reinvent the wheel when it was invented long ago. Software is not a product; it can be hacked and copied or changed unlicensed if something happens ...

          And we better buy everything from there? Is this your way?

          have you heard pirated software? we can create nakraynyak on the basis of ready-made ...

          we have released the first Russian server with a Russian processor. New software is being written. And this bastard already wants to kill a newborn. I’m not talking about the Russian software market anymore, it’s hushed up everywhere that such technological products as antiviruses and text recognition systems are Russian.

          the server and the processor are microelectronics and not IT ... This "bastard" says that it is not necessary to finance an industry that feeds itself. All the good software that you called (1C, Kaspersky, Abu Lingvo) was created back in the 90s without any state support, and nobody really bent anything ...
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 16 October 2015 08: 26 New
            +2
            IT is information technology, not electronics

            IT without electronics means nothing. Just a load in the libraries.
            Is system software assembler?

            In fact, they were full-fledged OS. And even multiplayer. And not even based on DOS.
            That's it, computers were nobody destroyed them

            Come on? Something I do not observe on our tables the descendants of BESM or Setun. Where is OS MIR or DCK?
            Software is not a product; it can be hacked and copied or changed unlicensed if something happens ...

            Have you forgotten about bookmarks in the software? Hack, you hack, but finding spy bookmarks in millions of lines of code (who else would give you this code) is not an easy task.
            the server and processor are microelectronics and not IT ...

            The server and the processor without its OS, sharpened for it - high-tech scrap.
            https://hi-tech.mail.ru/news/elbrus-first-russian-blade-server-ever-is-here/
            The OS is really based on Debian, but why invent new wheels for a bicycle with ready-made wheels?
            1. ronin201
              ronin201 16 October 2015 08: 39 New
              -1
              So he did not say anything about electronics, he talked about IT, which in your opinion does not mean anything :)

              In fact, they were full-fledged OS. And even multiplayer. And not even based on DOS.

              And what else on the kernel ??? what multi-user DOS ... up to 80gg

              Come on? Something I do not observe on our tables the descendants of BESM or Setun. Where is OS MIR or DCK?

              Are we talking about 60gg or 90gg? what

              Have you forgotten about bookmarks in the software? Hack, you hack, but finding spy bookmarks in millions of lines of code (who else would give you this code) is not an easy task.

              much easier to write these millions of lines yourself? winked reverse compilers? not? wink

              The server and the processor without its OS, sharpened for it - high-tech scrap.

              The OS is really based on Debian, but why invent new wheels for a bicycle with ready-made wheels?

              They answered their own question ...
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 16 October 2015 09: 15 New
                +2
                So he did not say anything about electronics, he talked about IT, which in your opinion does not mean anything :)

                This woodpecker also knows nothing about electronics. So it turns out, what the hell are IT shniks for us, but without electronics, if everything is behind the hill?
                Are we talking about 60gg or 90gg?

                What's the difference? I said with 60's, i.e. from the very beginning of development.
                much easier to write these millions of lines yourself?

                Did you write it yourself? Share your experience?
                reverse compilers? not?

                Bullshit, they give out only an approximate code, which then also needs to be debugged.
                They answered their own question ...

                I actually wanted to clean the snout of this wise guy. As a follower of stick sticks, the development of our IT technology and electronics.
                1. ronin201
                  ronin201 16 October 2015 09: 23 New
                  -2

                  Did you write it yourself? Share your experience?

                  hemorrhoids are complete, it is much easier to build on ready-made samples and patterns.

                  This woodpecker also knows nothing about electronics. So it turns out, what the hell are IT shniks for us, but without electronics, if everything is behind the hill?

                  Itshniki are needed but I think you will live without state support :) when you need to hire again. The benefit in the IT industry is huge demand. and international ...
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  our IT technology

                  Our IT technology developed well without it and long before it, and will develop perfectly after it ... This is an example of an absolutely market industry that does not require government subsidies
              2. IS-80
                IS-80 16 October 2015 09: 34 New
                +1
                Quote: ronin201
                The OS is really based on Debian, but why invent new wheels for a bicycle with ready-made wheels?

                They answered their own question ...

                Why did Linus invent his wheels? smile
                1. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 16 October 2015 09: 39 New
                  0
                  Why did Linus invent his wheels?

                  Free software. And the OS architecture is different. In general, there the core has already been licked for a couple of decades. It is not inserted wherever, right down to the microwave. So why not take a turnkey solution?
                  After all, if we write our own OS, who will propose the architecture more efficiently than the Linux kernel? And the development will take years. Without guarantee that we will get the same result.
                  1. IS-80
                    IS-80 16 October 2015 10: 04 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Wedmak
                    Free software. And the OS architecture is different. In general, there the core has already been licked for a couple of decades. It is not inserted wherever, right down to the microwave. So why not take a turnkey solution?
                    After all, if we write our own OS, who will propose the architecture more efficiently than the Linux kernel? And the development will take years. Without guarantee that we will get the same result.

                    For the first time, yes you can, but then do your own thing. The architecture there is also not super-efficient and highly reliable. For example, I like the micronucleus much more.
                2. ronin201
                  ronin201 16 October 2015 09: 39 New
                  -2
                  Linux is free development from amateurs around the world and it is not a company but a group of enthusiasts ...
                  1. VseDoFeNi
                    VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 09: 47 New
                    +1
                    Quote: ronin201
                    and this is not a company but a group of enthusiasts ..

                    Rad Hat inc. doesn’t think so.
                    1. ronin201
                      ronin201 16 October 2015 10: 00 New
                      0
                      Free BSD considers ...
                      1. VseDoFeNi
                        VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 16: 53 New
                        0
                        Is it University of California at Berkeley? He doesn't think so either.

                        Do you seriously think that Linux and BDS are something like a flash mob?
                  2. IS-80
                    IS-80 16 October 2015 10: 05 New
                    +1
                    Quote: ronin201
                    Linux is free development from amateurs around the world and it is not a company but a group of enthusiasts ...

                    Thanks, Cap. And why did they just spend time inventing a bicycle huh? smile
                    1. ronin201
                      ronin201 16 October 2015 10: 11 New
                      0
                      That's it, without state subsidies, yeah!))) As they did without state support.
                      1. IS-80
                        IS-80 16 October 2015 10: 27 New
                        0
                        Quote: ronin201
                        That's it, without state subsidies, yeah!))) As they did without state support.

                        Yes, in principle, probably everything can be done without state support. The whole question is at what pace.
                      2. VseDoFeNi
                        VseDoFeNi 16 October 2015 17: 01 New
                        0
                        Give a folk spaceship? laughing
            2. saenara
              saenara 16 October 2015 10: 14 New
              0
              You better not argue on IT topics, because your understanding of this issue will make even a third grader laugh :-)
              1. ronin201
                ronin201 16 October 2015 11: 54 New
                -1
                as I understand you are an assistant professor of information technology? share your opinion and I will evaluate it in terms of relevance and compliance with standards. or just another cheers patriot?
                1. saenara
                  saenara 17 October 2015 04: 32 New
                  0
                  You can’t evaluate, you can only say nonsense that you have successfully done in this thread.
                  Therefore, you can roll up your grades with a tube and place in any suitable hole in your body :-)
          2. saenara
            saenara 16 October 2015 10: 16 New
            0
            Quote: Wedmak
            Where is OS MIR or DCK?


            Well, generally speaking, the DCK was copied from the enemy DEC PDP-11 :-)

            Although the rest I agree with you.
  • Vladimir Pozlnyakov
    Vladimir Pozlnyakov 16 October 2015 10: 00 New
    0
    Most likely the usual 5-column sucked to overseas GRANT! And we have half a Duma! Miami's mansions and sea yachts cover the eyes!
  • Ryuuk
    Ryuuk 16 October 2015 07: 24 New
    +8
    Here we have been driving such nonsense for 20 years ...
    Type Russia is able to pump current resources, sell them to the West and drink vodka.
    Moreover, periodically scolding the USSR.
    Damn ... Yes, Russia would take from the USSR at least a quarter of that system in industry, support and agriculture - we could accelerate many times, with the result visible to ALL.
    Many are still simple in the government, do not set themselves the ultimate goal of removing the country from the oil and generally raw needle.
    The sooner they get rid of such officials, the better for everyone
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 16 October 2015 11: 19 New
      0
      Well, now we have “capitalism” and “market economy”. At the forefront is economic feasibility and the rate of profit, all as “directly” with them. And from these points of view, yes, driving oil here and now is many times more profitable than investing in the future, developing something of your own. And what will happen next - to our current bureaucrats along the side, alas.

      And the USSR ... The USSR set itself other tasks: not to cut coupons in a quick manner, but to become a truly great and self-sufficient (as much as possible) power, and therefore its achievements are much larger.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 16 October 2015 07: 43 New
    +4
    The personnel policy, or rather the lack thereof, is striking. The positions are often assigned to people who are either in the immediate environment or actively support the policies and views of a large official. It’s not love for one’s country that comes from a bureaucratic window, like from a wind tunnel. Are there too many “liberal democracies” in appointments?
  • Riv
    Riv 16 October 2015 07: 55 New
    +1
    How's the classic? Only mass executions will save the motherland ...
  • ARES623
    ARES623 16 October 2015 07: 57 New
    +3
    There are, in my opinion, two philosophies of the life of a business person. The first is the philosophy of a businessman, in which commercial success is prioritized. And in this case, it is very beneficial to attract the most advanced enterprises, as a way to reduce costs per unit of output. It is clear that the mass of these enterprises will be located outside the borders of the state. The second philosophy is state, taking into account the need for independence from resident producers of the countries of the likely adversary. In this case, it is possible to neglect the greater cost of the product, having the priority of state competence. It is also clear that there should be a person in a public position professing the second option. Conclusion: Dmitry Marinichev must be driven away by a filthy broom, this is a person harmful to the state.
  • Pacifist
    Pacifist 16 October 2015 08: 10 New
    +2
    For an official of this level, this is not a position, but some kind of burping. You do not want to do the work entrusted to you, go ahead and get in the way with such statements. Another example of snickering nouveau riche.
  • Niki
    Niki 16 October 2015 08: 13 New
    +1
    Yes heresy is all this.
    Where has it been seen that a self-respecting person tries on the title of "Ombudsman" ?!
    1. GRAY
      GRAY 16 October 2015 08: 37 New
      0
      Quote: Niki
      Where has it been seen that a self-respecting person tries on the title of "Ombudsman" ?!

      Pavel Astakhov for example. Ombudsman ombudsman strife.
      And this one, "IT specialist", probably sits on a salary from the small-employee.
  • morozik
    morozik 16 October 2015 08: 24 New
    +1
    Officials declared war on Putin? Why do they prefer to follow IMF orders?

    In Russia, officials started the most real war with the president. However, if Putin loses, ordinary citizens of Russia will suffer in it.

    We all know that the so-called May decrees of Putin have been sabotaged for almost three years now. However, until now, the orders of the head of state have been sabotaged quietly, without too much noise. Now, advocates of Western values ​​in the government openly declare disobedience to the president.

    Putin clearly spoke about raising the retirement age. And the Minister of Economic Development Ulyukaev says the opposite, that the retirement age needs to be raised. And it will increase, do not hesitate.

    At least he will be able to do this if we do not urgently begin the process of cleansing our basic law of the country from the State Department bookmarks that were left by the former Prime Minister of Russia, now the late Yegor Gaidar.

    In particular, the 15th article of the Constitution of Russia clearly describes the mechanism of work of manuals of foreign organizations in Russia. In accordance with the provisions of this article, they have an advantage over our laws. Here Siluanov and fulfills those laws that are more important.

    He ordered the IMF to raise the retirement age - he would increase it, and he wanted to spit on the high bell tower of Putin. And the coordinator of the NCD Yevgeny Fedorov has repeatedly said this.

    In the meantime, it is not customary to talk about this from the television screen, the people are completely sure that all the troubles in the country are from the president. That's why we get such videos.

    Such videos relishly turn on overseas television and scare the whole world with the bloody dictator Putin, who keeps the entire population in fear.

    1. Uncle Joe
      Uncle Joe 16 October 2015 18: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: morozik
      In Russia, officials started the most real war with the president
      And therefore, not one of them has yet been removed from his post, and Putin says that he is satisfied with the work of the government? laughing

      Maybe it was not the officials who declared war on the president, but you declared war on common sense (perhaps even that which is not convinced and not free)?

      In particular, the 15th article of the Constitution of Russia clearly describes the mechanism of work of manuals of foreign organizations in Russia. In accordance with the provisions of this article, they have an advantage over our laws.
      In accordance with provisions Part 4, Article 15, international treaties of the Russian Federationconcluded by the president, ratified by the State Duma of the Russian Federation and the Federation Council of the Russian Federation in the form of a federal law (which in accordance with part 1 of article 15 cannot contradict the constitution of the Russian Federation), and approved by the president - that is, in the "the work of manuals of foreign organizations in Russia" Without the most active participation of the guarantor, as well as without the full approval of such "work" on his part, there is no way to do it.

      So what does the 15th article describe to you there? What does Siluanov do? lol

      And the coordinator of the NOD Evgeny Fedorov has repeatedly said this.
      To which the constitution “prescribes” to vote for all “bills implemented by the State Department” wassat

      Yes, a sucker is not a mammoth. Here you have 3 pluses for this nonsense painted.
    2. 31R-US
      31R-US 17 October 2015 13: 52 New
      0
      The only thing that pleases if a big batch starts to lose is that there isn’t much to regret crying
      1. 31R-US
        31R-US 17 October 2015 13: 59 New
        0
        By the way, it’s time for me to go again, otherwise I’ll retire in fifty years, let’s drop a penny laughing
  • astronom1973n
    astronom1973n 16 October 2015 08: 27 New
    +1
    Quote: Mikhail Krapivin
    In order to get a responsible position in one of the law enforcement agencies in the Kuban, they asked for 5 million. Apparently, upon receiving this position, one needs to put a cash register and begin to beat back their money. So yes, the shores are tangled specifically and without shocks the situation will not be resolved.

    When nominating my candidacy for a leading position in the specialized cadet corps, they told me that you do not have a comrade in pedagogical education! even though he also has no pedagogical education!) laughing
  • astronom1973n
    astronom1973n 16 October 2015 08: 29 New
    +1
    There is only one question left for the general public: who put a person with similar views on the post of ombudsman for the IT industry. The enemy, as they say, you need to know in person.
    That's in whose interests he “works”, he put him to the post! The society needs to know such people.
  • morozik
    morozik 16 October 2015 08: 46 New
    0
    ____________________

  • afrikanez
    afrikanez 16 October 2015 08: 47 New
    +1
    It all comes down to one thing, tightening control over officials. Not repressions, of course, but the SK and the FSB could perform their duties much better. You look and it will be easier to breathe in the country.
    1. ivan bogomolov
      ivan bogomolov 16 October 2015 08: 58 New
      +2
      There are the same wassat While sitting .... and do not allow normal specialists to work.
  • boris-1230
    boris-1230 16 October 2015 08: 50 New
    +1
    It's a shame that officials of this level have this position. Russia is like a red rag for many, so we should not be left behind, just ahead of the curve. Everyone notes the “Russian” brains, so you need to use this advantage and create conditions for scientists. But our officials will not be fed up in any way, everything is not enough for them, and without brains themselves - pests
  • X Y Z
    X Y Z 16 October 2015 09: 03 New
    +2
    I would not be surprised if all this got away with him. Indeed, for such a case, there are tricks such as "not understood", "taken out of context", etc. It’s just interesting why he voiced such ideas, because it was not out of stupidity that he blurted out. The recipient is interesting.
    1. GRAY
      GRAY 16 October 2015 09: 16 New
      +2
      Quote: XYZ
      The recipient is interesting.

      Maybe Microsoft or Apple, or both at once and someone else. It is hoped that the sponsors will hear his "golden words" and increase the monetary content of their idle.
  • MAD_SERGANT
    MAD_SERGANT 16 October 2015 09: 13 New
    0
    Something smelled of carrion !!! It seems the place of this "man" near the bucket !!!
  • Hardy
    Hardy 16 October 2015 09: 24 New
    +4
    Dmitry Marinichev I think I didn’t understand what I said)))
    But the problem is really very acute, because it concerns the most educated and active citizens of the Russian Federation.
    IT specialists from our country are pumped out like oil. And they don’t even take them to their place. Foreign companies such as Mirantis, Epam are scattered throughout Russia ... where our IT specialists and programmers work day and night to create a product that Russia will then buy in the West. That is, we are brains for them for a penny, they are back to us, "Windows" for expensive)))
    And well, we would only lose loot on this. But the guys who work in these companies are completely losing our culture. Their main language at work is English, all standards are Western. And there you just can’t work if you don’t share their ideology. Being there you understand that this is no longer Russia. Moreover, in their free time, employers actively organize ...
    I don’t know if it is a coincidence or not, but I have a lot of friends working in these companies, some statistics have already accumulated. So, those who are in contact shit on the Russian Federation and Putin, easily get visas for travel on business trips to the west and quickly make a career. And who has a subscription to patriotic groups for years can not get a visa)))
    That is, the IT industry is truly a western enclave and we feed it ourselves. How to fix the situation personally, I do not know. But without the industrialization of this industry, spending money on developing IT is at least not economically profitable, thereby we give our competencies to the West. Work at a loss for the future ... But then there should be at least some kind of development plan for our electronics, but for now allow steal the software we have created)))
  • Steppe
    Steppe 16 October 2015 09: 33 New
    0
    what Let's take away the US currency advantage. What are we messing with? I propose to push the bloody and criminal dollar to collapse. I think the air will immediately become cleaner. And on the borders of our country it will immediately become calmer. And we will tie our ruble to the gold and foreign exchange reserves and heal as people. What do we feed the USA and Europe? Something I do not see that they feel gratitude to us. Only knives are sharpening on us at our borders.
  • maks1803
    maks1803 16 October 2015 09: 34 New
    0
    Just a bastard.
  • Velizariy
    Velizariy 16 October 2015 09: 37 New
    0
    Without oprichnina and high support from the people, the situation cannot be reversed ... Oprichnina is needed as air. The simplest example: everyone knows how the banking yoke works and who it works for and how sad it is for the people and the country. Take the Agricultural Bank and see whose descendants there are in the leaders? Even if the Head of our state is honesty and the embodiment of love for the people and the homeland, he will feel like a Gogolian hero in the work “On a Farm Near Dikanka”. Nevertheless, Ivan the Terrible and his son were killed, Paul I was killed, and the case of 1953 is also most likely from this area. Therefore, the phrase about a good king and bad boyars is, in my opinion, even so, relevant ... they will kill after all ...
  • triglav
    triglav 16 October 2015 10: 10 New
    0
    What have you done with traitors at all times? And this one is another representative of the “fifth column”. Send to hell out of the country!
  • mithridate
    mithridate 16 October 2015 10: 30 New
    0
    why not take the FSB under the supervision of this man? After all, not hiding pours water on the enemy’s mill
  • Dan Slav
    Dan Slav 16 October 2015 10: 32 New
    0
    What to do?
    Only sometimes the true face of this power is revealed.
    New people who do not yet understand that one cannot tell the truth about themselves, suddenly babble what all these bureaucratic thieves have in their souls.
    And they have almost ruined science. Low salaries. Young people receive prestigious institutions for 12-16 sput. Who would do that? And no Kalashnikov’s prize of the president here is not an indicator. Glad for her, but this is an exception. Even this meager salary is now excluded from the institute's protected expenses. That is, if the institute does not have enough for a communal apartment, and this, as a rule, happens under the conditions of underfunding of science, then salary-handouts of employees go to utility bills.
    The complete lack of financing for the procurement and maintenance of modern equipment.
    Chekhard with RAS and FANO. When only requests and questionnaires are sent from these structures, and institutions are forced to keep a whole staff on the maintenance of these unnecessary pieces of paper with which the bureaucrats report.
    Science is almost dead and does not breathe thanks to these "reforms and intercessors."
  • supernova123
    supernova123 16 October 2015 10: 57 New
    -1
    I do not agree with the author; citations are taken out of the context of the article. Here is the full text http://www.gazeta.ru/social/2015/10/15/7822757.shtml. The logic of Marinichev is quite understandable: it needs its own unique technologies and it was necessary to work on these issues yesterday.
    1. alovrov
      alovrov 16 October 2015 12: 57 New
      0
      Nothing torn out. It is impossible to say back. The Chinese do not plant such clowns in warm places and do not argue that their coders are leaving - they just make national products. All these words, from the first to the last word, are nonsense and wrecking.
    2. alovrov
      alovrov 16 October 2015 12: 57 New
      0
      Nothing torn out. It is impossible to say back. The Chinese do not plant such clowns in warm places and do not argue that their coders are leaving - they just make national products. All these words, from the first to the last word, are nonsense and wrecking.
  • ibu355yandex.ru
    ibu355yandex.ru 16 October 2015 11: 12 New
    +1
    While the Government is led by Dmitry Anatolyevich, so be it! The current government is a bunch of exclusively liberalists !!!
    1. kirgudu
      kirgudu 16 October 2015 12: 06 New
      +2
      GDP is no less liberal. What about the latest statements that the liberal economy will continue, RAO UES and Russian Railways will be divided and resold?
  • Female friend
    Female friend 16 October 2015 11: 28 New
    +1
    Such as he must be driven from his posts with the life-long tagged “Enemy of the State”, with a lifetime renunciation of the opportunity to hold public office.
  • AdekvatNICK
    AdekvatNICK 16 October 2015 11: 39 New
    0
    The concepts of this person in short:

    why wash the dishes anyway then it will be dirty.
  • Svetovod
    Svetovod 16 October 2015 11: 42 New
    +1
    I suppose Microsoft is throwing this rat into poverty.
  • usus
    usus 16 October 2015 11: 48 New
    -2
    Articles with similar headings and ratings do not surprise me much on Rain, Lente.ru, Kasparov.ru, snob.ru, but VO is just a shock. No one delves into the meaning of what has been said, interpret phrases, and in absolute isolation from reality. It’s as if they don’t see what is happening in the world, how technologies, financial instruments and just a lifestyle are imposed on countries. It is terrible to read how a person absolutely devoted to Russia, interested in its growth, is called a Russophobe. Journalists write to express themselves, to collect a hundred comments, without delving into, without understanding. They’re just running away screaming, not knowing where they are. And worst of all, they lead others who have not figured out the topic. It's nasty and low.
    1. alovrov
      alovrov 16 October 2015 13: 51 New
      +1
      The man said that to create national IT products you need a war with America. Further, this burial ground said that IT specialists in Russia did not need to be trained. With a shortage of IT specialists, about 240 thousand

      And is it after that a patriot? Burn dear.
      1. usus
        usus 16 October 2015 15: 19 New
        +1
        He said traders usually come for the military. (And it’s strange to argue with this. America, for example, acts in many cases.) And in order to promote your products, you need to act actively, passive ones are not needed. In addition, “military operations” and “military presence” are two different things. No one here seems to know about this. And for some reason, no one rushes to NATO's military presence in a large number of countries. It is curious who protects the interests of the interests of Russia?)
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • kirgudu
    kirgudu 16 October 2015 12: 04 New
    +1
    They made democracy here, ombudsmen ...
    Some 40 years ago, this shot would have ended up in a psychiatric hospital on a person, and 70 would have been shot as an enemy spy.
  • skeptic31
    skeptic31 16 October 2015 12: 09 New
    +1
    These are our realities today. One thing is what is said in your circle. Another is what is said for us. In this case, only a small breakdown. He has no arguments to explain his position, because in his circle, there are not his own ideas about decency, they gave him real ideas about what was happening on the mountain. By the way, that is precisely why, when one thing is said, and something completely different is done, and the idea arises that someone is doing something differently than he decided and thought. By no means, everything is done strictly in accordance with the decisions made, only they forget to tell us about their real ideas. And suddenly we’ll be offended ...
  • Belousov
    Belousov 16 October 2015 12: 50 New
    +1
    The question is, who appointed him there? Like Nabiullin, Gref, Kostin, other Miller-Rotenbergs and Sechins with Dvorovichi? It turns out that you need to ask from this very specific person who recently had a DR.
  • alovrov
    alovrov 16 October 2015 12: 52 New
    +4
    Indeed, it is the business of psychiatrists to examine a person who, in all seriousness, says that in order to create domestic IT products, we need to start a war with America.

    But that is not the point. This sick (at best!) Person could get to his warm place only through the Minister of Communications of the Russian Federation Nikiforov. And this is a specific pest, carefully killing IT-import substitution. My first article on this topic was published only on this site (the others refused), the second one was even banned here - http://alovrov.livejournal.com/28988.html. An honest editorial whispered in a whisper that he didn’t want “guess who” problems.

    The attempt of the Court of Accounts to dig in this direction https://hi-tech.mail.ru/news/po-ne-uspevaet/ was also quickly suppressed. Question - by whom? Look for answers from Minister Nikiforov. And I will write the third article, because the hornet's nest in the Ministry of Communications should be put up.
    1. orskpdc
      orskpdc 16 October 2015 13: 46 New
      +3
      Russia cannot be understood by the mind. bully

      "The appointment of Marinichev was unexpected for many representatives of the industry, and exactly how it happened, who proposed and approved the candidacy of Marinichev, remained unknown. The businessman himself learned about the new position from the Internet."

      Whoever answers will receive a prize from me !!!!!
  • win
    win 16 October 2015 13: 23 New
    +3
    ombudsman

    The word is not Russian. Naturally, his opinion is American ...
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 16 October 2015 14: 56 New
    +1
    This was followed by revelations, quite worthy of study by specialists either from psychiatry or from the relevant services. In particular, Marinichev announced that the Russian market is still "just a sandbox, it’s some kind of aquarium compared to the oceans," and therefore "it’s impossible to do anything or import substitution within our country only."

  • 56_br
    56_br 16 October 2015 14: 58 New
    +1
    Why are these ombudsmen needed and who are we, we have created a darkness of various commissions, subcommittees, over commissions, committees and subcommittees, plenipotentiaries (even of federal significance), thoughts from village to state. Felix Edmundovich quickly put things in order in the country and with saboteurs, to control the state, first of all, you need PERSONALITY, in the history of Russia there were such personalities, and now there are NO such.
  • Kpox
    Kpox 16 October 2015 15: 14 New
    +1
    About today's businessman.
    Got a wonderful experience when someone makes a media presentation for you, turning thoughts from context into slogans.
    The meaning of my words was directed exclusively to those representatives of science and their opinions who were in the hall, but not to the media.
    Brief essence and meaning.
    I suggested to the participants, before discussing possible ways of import substitution and technology transfer in science, to answer one simple question: Russia inside the global market or outside?

    details on the link:
    https://www.facebook.com/dmitry.marinichev/posts/10200890869551208
    1. alovrov
      alovrov 16 October 2015 15: 46 New
      +2
      Well, nonsense!

      But in this embodiment, the training of IT specialists on the basis of foreign technologies (products) is evil for the country.

      Who is the owner of object-oriented programming? Who is the owner of PL SQL? Who is the owner of TCP / IP?

      The brow is not only crazy ideas, but he is in the subject with neither his ear nor his snout.
  • dmitrymb
    dmitrymb 16 October 2015 16: 42 New
    +2
    on the rack and deal with the end so that others are not in the habit!
  • NordUral
    NordUral 16 October 2015 17: 16 New
    +5
    And there are many such bastards in the upper and middle echelons of our government? .. Therefore, we crawl to the abyss, instead of climbing uphill.
    1. blak100
      blak100 18 October 2015 20: 15 New
      0
      absolutely agree angry