Self-propelled "Msta-S" on the Indian tender bypassed the Korean K9 Thunder

In the final of the Indian tender for the supply of one hundred self-propelled guns Russian SAU 2C19 "Msta-S" bypassed the installation of K9 manufactured by Samsung Techwin, reports Lenta.ru report.

The parties agreed that half of the order (50 installations) will be produced under license in India. The cost of the future contract is estimated at $ 800 million.

According to media reports, "the Korean self-propelled gun surpassed the Russian one in the final part of the selection in terms of speed, operational mobility, combat rate of fire and accuracy of fire."

American, British, French, German, Israeli and Slovak artillery systems also dropped out of the competition.

In total, in the coming 10 years, the Indian Ministry of Defense intends to acquire 814 artillery systems worth about $ 2,4 billion.

As the newspaper writes, India has been looking for suitable self-propelled and towed artillery systems for its army for many years. Past tenders have been canceled for various reasons. The current competition, during which the choice fell on South Korean products, was announced in 2014.

Comments

[Igor39]

You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything, and states with a fingernail on the map.

[Baikonur]

Exactly.
Revenge of our "MSTA"
will be cruel!

(pun intended!)

[Darkmor]

Well, MSTA-S, this is still a Soviet development, so it is considered obsolete.
K9, as far as I remember, was adopted somewhere in the 2000m.
Not surprisingly, the newer howitzer showed the best performance characteristics. The only question is the price.
Well, the Korean howitzer, due to the fact that it is relatively new, was not used in real combat conditions.
This is how to compare Kalashnikov with X & K.
If we take into account only combat use, I would prefer MCTA.
But, given the clause of the contract, according to which part of the installations is carried out by India itself (i.e. they receive all production technologies), the option with the newer k9 is preferable - most likely, this was the decisive argument.

The only question is - was Korea worth giving India its technology?
I would even say that the K9 self-propelled gun is in some ways really bad, since Korea so easily parted with the drawings.
For the same reason, we will not export Armata for at least ten years - so that we will not be squeezed out of our own market segment, riveting copies of our own weapons.

[avg]

Quote: Darkmor

The only question is - was Korea worth giving India its technology?

The Koreans are not going to stop selling K9 self-propelled guns and licenses for its production. And for the first time they already in 2004 sold a license for the production of K9 to Turkey. The Turks call her Firtina.

[Temples]

Do not forget that talking about a commercial deal.
In addition to military specialists, commerce is involved in the deal, both on the one hand and on the other.
What is being sold is for sale.
Buy from someone who will give the best conditions.
You can justify the choice after signing the contract as your heart desires.
And far from the fact that we will hear the truth.
Korean cars are not the best in the world for their performance characteristics, but sales are growing every year.
So far not only TTX are guided by transactions.
Making a good product and selling a product are different tasks. And they solve these problems in different ways.

[msm]

Korean cars are not the best in the world for their performance characteristics

Everything is exactly the opposite. Some of the best cars in the world market. And, in comfort, even in the basic configurations, they surpass the Germans by head and especially the Czechs, and others ...

[Edvagan]

I agree. And the Koreans now give a guarantee of 5 years, and not three as the Germans and the Japanese. I myself go to KIA, very satisfied.

[TiRex]

only on the Germans a guarantee for the whole car, and for the Koreans only on the box and engine ...
(there was a new Korean, there is a new German)

[jjj]

Do Koreans have better trunks? How many shots can they actually withstand in combat conditions, and not in the "sterility" of the range?

[Homo]

Quote: jjj

Do Koreans have better trunks? How many shots can they actually withstand in combat conditions, and not in the "sterility" of the range?

And what kind of results will the combatant Indians have and not the specialists of the manufacturer’s factory.

[nfoma80]

Don’t worry, the tests have passed, these 41 years of your hat-thinking mood have been evoked, you persistently do not notice what you are behind, and then you will blame us, God forbid, of course.

[nfoma80]

Don’t worry, the tests have passed, these 41 years of your hat-thinking mood have been evoked, you persistently do not notice what you are behind, and then you will blame us, God forbid, of course.

[ver_]

... completely in the hole ...

[ver_]

... completely in the hole ...

[afdjhbn67]

And something ours began to lose many tenders in India .. the inertia of the Gandhi era ended ??

[Homo]

Quote: afdjhbn67

And something ours began to lose many tenders in India .. the inertia of the Gandhi era ended ??

Money ends - it’s a crisis, so they’re buying not only what’s better, but because there’s enough money.

[afdjhbn67]

Quote: Homo

Quote: afdjhbn67

And something ours began to lose many tenders in India .. the inertia of the Gandhi era ended ??

Money ends - it’s a crisis, so they’re buying not only what’s better, but because there’s enough money.

So it seems that our technique is cheaper than "Rafale", etc., but not an argument ..

[Darkoff]

I am joining. Moreover, the chassis (T-72 platform) of our self-propelled guns was mastered by the Indians a long time ago and they made it under license in decent quantities. This, in a way, should have been a trump card in the competition.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: DarkOFF

Moreover, the chassis (T-72 platform) of our self-propelled guns was mastered by the Indians a long time ago and they made it under license in decent quantities.

The MSTA has a chassis not from the T-72, but a hodgepodge:
chassis from the T-80, and the engine compartment from the T-72.

[Voha_krim]

Quote: afdjhbn67

And something ours began to lose many tenders in India .. the inertia of the Gandhi era ended ??

In January 2012, the French fighter Rafale surpassed the Russian MiG-35 and was declared the winner of the largest international tender for the supply of weapons in Indian history. The contract was valued at more than $ 10 billion.
Among the failures of Russia in the Indian market - the loss of the Indian tender to replace the old Russian military helicopters Mi-24. New Delhi decided to replace them not with new Russian Mi-28 and Ka-52, but with American Apache helicopters, ordering 22 overseas machines for 1,5 billion dollars. In addition, the Indian leadership chose to order American-made 15 heavy transport helicopters instead of Russian Mi-26.
Instead of the An-24, New Delhi ordered 12 US Super Hercules (C-130) machines for $ 2,1 billion. IL-76 and its latest modification, IL-476, was also uninteresting to the Indians. They signed a $ 4,1 billion contract with the United States to purchase 10 Globemaster S-17 military transport aircraft (instead of the Il-476).
India has also adopted the latest US reconnaissance aircraft, the Gulfstream 3. Russia’s failure is also linked to India’s refusal to continue to purchase Igla Russian portable anti-aircraft missile systems. Their place was taken by the American Stinger missile systems.
In addition, New Delhi decided to buy the Israeli Spider missile system instead of the Russian Buk-M1-2.

[gjv]

Quote: Voha_krim

New Delhi decided to replace them not with the new Russian Mi-28 and Ka-52, but with American Apache helicopters

The Ka-52 did not participate in that tender, and the fate of the Ka-52K was still uncertain. Would Apache be the winner of the tender?

[gjv]

Quote: Voha_krim

In addition, the Indian leadership preferred to order 15 heavy American-made Chinook transport helicopters instead of the Russian Mi-26.

Not instead of the Mi-26. Their Indians bought as needed. Chinook is not heavy but medium-tonnage with a rather large cargo compartment. Perhaps the Russian-Chinese project will be competitive with Chinook. Only when?

[Nikolaevich I]

Something in recent years "kicks in the ass" to Rosoboronprom have become more frequent ....

[Bayonet]

Quote: Darkmor

K9, as far as I remember, was adopted somewhere in the 2000m.

155 mm self-propelled howitzer K9 Thunder
Main producer: South Korea
Name: K9 Thunder
Type: Artillery System
Year of adoption: 2004

[whiteeagle]

the Korean howitzer was operated in real combat conditions. Always after a missile attack by the state of Kim.

[Panikovsky]

Quote: whiteeagle

the Korean howitzer was operated in real combat conditions. Always after a missile attack by the state of Kim.

it is not indicative. Well, arrows in response, the same results as Kim. no one is cold or hot.

[igorka357]

I beg you ... what world do you live in, the hackler shot a lot where, if I ask, I can list it, and with respect to reliability it’s not a bad machine .. although I’m standing next to Kalash! And don’t tell me where I got the 2C19M2 combat use. .. that's it, 2S19 yes shot, but not 2S19M2!

[scoop]

I still beg you "technology". Russian BMWs are riveting, but this does not mean that they have mastered some kind of "technology". Koreans are no more stupid than you and me, they will calculate everything, rest assured.

[Cossack Ermak]

Quote: Darkmor

The only question is - was Korea worth giving India its technology?

So Korea has a newer development.

[mervino2007]

Quote: Darkmor

I would even say that the K9 self-propelled gun is in some ways really bad, since Korea so easily parted with the drawings.

Really bad? And what about this: "According to media reports," the Korean self-propelled gun surpassed the Russian in the final part of the selection in terms of speed, operational mobility, combat rate of fire and accuracy. "> Are there" other "performance characteristics? I will especially note "surpassed in shooting accuracy" - this is the main thing.

[ver_]

... technologists - this small box does not always open so simply even if everything is written in the papers ... well, a little bit and .. - a dog down the drain ..

[aleks700]

"The Korean self-propelled gun surpassed the Russian one in the final part of the selection in speed, operational mobility, combat rate of fire and accuracy of shooting."

I would even say that the K9 self-propelled gun is in some ways really bad, since Korea so easily parted with the drawings.

And why could it be worse.

[evil partisan]

Quote: Baikonur

Revenge of our "MSTA"
will be cruel!

Yeah. Take someone else to the Coalition ...

[vorobey]

Quote: wicked partisan

Quote: Baikonur

Revenge of our "MSTA"
will be cruel!

Yeah. Take someone else to the Coalition ...

Hi Ethiop .. how do you like yesterday’s ballet? Corvalol ate all? you say to the coalition ... here KAMAZ recently showed a 16x16 platform ..

I think the "Coast" will receive three gun turrets at once .. or four This is a coalition

[UREC]

A gorgeous "still life" from a marine painter-battalist. And 3-4 towers will generally be a masterpiece!

[vorobey]

Quote: UREC

A gorgeous "still life" from a marine painter-battalist. And 3-4 towers will generally be a masterpiece!

I saw them for the first time in Sevastopol in 93 at a training exercise ... we then repelled a likely landing ... Beautifully put daredevils ... well, about three or four it's a joke ..

[23 region]

Quote: wicked partisan

Quote: Baikonur

Revenge of our "MSTA"
will be cruel!

Yeah. Take someone else to the Coalition ...

Maybe this one? 152mm SPG based on ATC-59. Korean "Hyacinth" apparently.

[gjv]

Quote: Region 23

Maybe this one?

Ага. And the 170mm Coxane ...

[yushch]

Quote: Igor39

You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything, and states with a fingernail on the map.

Do not forget the fact that our Msta has been fighting for more than a year. I have not heard about the K9 combat experience. That is, all of these advantages can be crossed out by one reliability factor in battle, the factor of which our weapons are famous for in the first place. What is accuracy, mobility and rate of fire if the weapon does not withstand work in harsh combat conditions.
P.S. I absolutely do not claim that the Korean self-propelled gun is unreliable, I just say that the reliability of our self-propelled guns is tested in the conditions of tough BD, and the Korean one is not.

[Hubun]

I absolutely agree with you. The clumsiness of some indicators more than overlaps with reliability. Well, the fact that they purged the tender, I think, will be beneficial. Stimulates further development

[Maxom75]

We have a problem firing range and accuracy. K9, more precisely, they have a GPS-corrected projectile and apparently a better ballistic computer. But we, too, do not stand still. The problem is Koreans price, very expensive. And one more thing, they are not being adopted by NATO countries, I prefer Amer’s. It seems they said that K9 has problems when working in areas susceptible to radiation infection.

[stas132]

Even according to Wikipedia, our lighter, faster, longer range and higher rate of fire. Most likely this is a policy, so as not to become attached to our systems.

[Maxom75]

The K9 is a really interesting option. I watched the film about her is impressive. It is very reliable and fast, the rate of fire is high, it works even with remote target designation (guidance data is transmitted directly to the ACS computer from the command post), it can additionally change the angle of inclination of the hull due to hydraulic damper, a high degree of automation. Judging by the performance characteristics, all this was taken into account in the "Coalition". Principle and MSTA can pull up to K9. True, there is no data on the characteristics of the barrel and its reliability. Koreans make good steel, but there are certain doubts.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Maxom75

Koreans make good steel, but there are certain doubts.

Just because they are "some Koreans"?

[Maxom75]

No, I just encountered at the time that the Koreans ordered a number of special steels and products from them in Germany and the USA.

[atalef]

Quote: yushch

Do not forget the fact that our Msta has been fighting for several years. I have not heard about the K9 combat experience.

So no one has heard about the S-300, but the Patriots have already shot down missiles, UAVs, and planes more than once.
those. Is everything you said about K9 relevant to c-300?

Quote: yushch

That is, all of these advantages can be crossed out by one reliability factor in battle, the factor of which our weapons are famous in the first place.

In what battle? Msta participated in a full-fledged armed conflict? With counter-battery and electronic warfare counteraction, with the possibility of an air force attack?

Quote: yushch

P.S. I absolutely do not claim that the Korean self-propelled gun is unreliable, I just say that the reliability of our self-propelled guns is tested in the conditions of tough B.D.

Where?

[FREGATENKAPITAN]

Where?................................. This is not customary to say out loud!

[bif]

Quote: atalef

Where?

"I would have answered you ... But my acquaintance, a gynecologist, claims that she is not there either."

[max702]

Quote: atalef

So no one has heard about the S-300, but the Patriots have already shot down missiles, UAVs, and planes more than once.

Do you really want to check the S-300? And you don’t have to go far, next to you there .. not so long ago many doubted the availability of effective Russian air forces about cruise missiles in general as they told about a fairy tale .. But it turned out like that .. So maybe it is better not to doubt about air defense? Well, you don’t have to stutter about our artillery systems

[Bayonet]

Quote: max702

Well, you don’t have to stutter about our artillery systems

Cool! But the Indians chose K-9!

[avdkrd]

Quote: Bayonet

Cool! But the Indians chose K-9!

Hindus in terms of arms purchases make a lot of not logical and not consistent movements. You can recall the purchase of the CH-47 Chinook, instead of the MI-26, of the latter it’s Rafali (a mediocre aircraft at a price beyond reason). In India, corruption is, to put it mildly, not all right, although I can recall our throwing with the purchase of Mistral and Rysa (which did not fit at all in terms of technical characteristics, price, or state interests) Not all yoghurts are equally useful and losing in the Indian tender doesn’t necessarily indicate the superiority of the Korean self-propelled guns over ours, the Indians used to do stuffing like the Indian national tank Arjun surpasses the T-90 in all respects. Data were given on its superiority in both mobility and reliability and accuracy. So what? They got luli from the military and, despite the manufacturer’s lobby (reinforced by the Germans), they continued to purchase the T-90 as the objectively best in terms of characteristics.

[yushch]

Quote: atalef

Quote: yushch

Do not forget the fact that our Msta has been fighting for several years. I have not heard about the K9 combat experience.

So no one has heard about the S-300, but the Patriots have already shot down missiles, UAVs, and planes more than once.
those. Is everything you said about K9 relevant to c-300?

Quote: yushch

That is, all of these advantages can be crossed out by one reliability factor in battle, the factor of which our weapons are famous in the first place.

In what battle? Msta participated in a full-fledged armed conflict? With counter-battery and electronic warfare counteraction, with the possibility of an air force attack?

Quote: yushch

P.S. I absolutely do not claim that the Korean self-propelled gun is unreliable, I just say that the reliability of our self-propelled guns is tested in the conditions of tough B.D.

Where?

There, in my opinion, "Moscow" approached the coast of Syria and took the neighborhood under its umbrella, it seems even part of Israel is covering this umbrella. Now let's see how your invulnerable air forces will try to bomb objects in Syria. Moscow has just 300e "sea-air "which, as you say, is an empty sound. But I think an empty sound in your head rather.

[Michael_59]

Quote: yushch

Now let's see how your invulnerable Air Force will try to bomb objects in Syria

I sincerely hope for the sanity of the IDF, all the more so since the corresponding visits and meetings of the military at the highest level, specifically regarding Syria, have taken place. It is more beneficial for Israel to cooperate than to conflict. With us.

[Semen Semyonitch]

Quote: yushch

. But I think the empty phrase in your head is more likely.

No need to get personal, especially atalef did not give you such an occasion.

[yushch]

Do not tell me what to do, but I will not tell you where to go.

[Semen Semyonitch]

Quote: yushch

Don't tell me what to do

Not on your nelly...

Quote: yushch

and I won’t tell you where to go.

Do you know the road?

[yushch]

I know the way. And for the most gifted I can give acceleration.

[Semen Semyonitch]

Quote: yushch

I know the way.

No questions...

[Bayonet]

Quote: yushch

. What is the accuracy, mobility and rate of fire if the weapon does not withstand work in harsh combat conditions.

Hindus are very fastidious buyers. You can’t put a shit on them. Apparently the car passed the most stringent tests. Yes, and self-propelled guns do not go next to tanks to attack, their job is accurate shooting at the enemy from positions.

[UREC]

Finicky in part - who will give in and roll back more.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Igor39

You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything, and states with a fingernail on the map.

WE HAVE EVEN AN OLD IN "CASE", AND THEM?

[Igor39]

I have a Samsung washing machine, everything plows and plows, I don’t think self-propelled guns are worse, but do we have a washing machine?

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Igor39

I have a Samsung washing machine, everything plows and plows, I don’t think self-propelled guns are worse, but do we have a washing machine?

"vyatka" ...

[Igor39]

Vyatka is Indesit!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Igor39

Vyatka is Indesit!

it was BEFORE "indesite" ...

[mimo-crock3]

"In 1974, the Kirov plant" Electrobytpribor "buys from the Italian company Merloni Projeti (now, Indesit) a license for the production of automatic washing machines."

[Ilya77]

Quote: Igor39

X & K.

It’s not true, now Vyatka is Kandy.

[max702]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

"vyatka" ...

And I have 19 years! replaced the belt once and that's it ..

[Bayonet]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

"vyatka" ...

I read reviews for fun. Almost everyone writes about her jumping ability during the spin cycle, and one peasant specifically got sick of it:
- About two years ago I got rid of the VA-14. Before that she plowed for about 7 years. Not to say that it was very difficult for her - 1 person. During this time: 2 or 3 times changed the pump. The motor on the controller burned out. I changed temperature sensors 2 times. The wires on the commander jumped off the connectors from the shaking several times. The contacts in the commander had to be cleaned several times. I threw it out for a reason - "zadolbala to break," with the diagnosis again kamandoapparat. Verdict - good idea - poor execution.

I had a Swedish "electrolux", now with friends at the dacha - she is 16 years old, the flight is normal. No rust and works like new.

[Victorio]

Quote: Bayonet

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

"vyatka" ...

I read reviews for fun. Almost everyone writes about her jumping ability during the spin cycle, and one peasant specifically got sick of it:
- About two years ago I got rid of the VA-14. Before that she plowed for about 7 years. Not to say that it was very difficult for her - 1 person. During this time: 2 or 3 times changed the pump. The motor on the controller burned out. I changed temperature sensors 2 times. The wires on the commander jumped off the connectors from the shaking several times. The contacts in the commander had to be cleaned several times. I threw it out for a reason - "zadolbala to break," with the diagnosis again kamandoapparat. Verdict - good idea - poor execution.

I had a Swedish "electrolux", now with friends at the dacha - she is 16 years old, the flight is normal. No rust and works like new.

====
a soviet "ayuka" manual with a plastic drum has been working for 27 years without repair, once a connection broke / plastic belt with a timer for alternating drum rotations, after which it turns only in one direction

[igorka357]

Here you are writing for 16 years. 27 years, I'm sorry, but I don’t understand which dibil will wash on such a machine for 27 years ... Oh .. I’ve come up with a river and women, they can always be erased .. sorry if any of the poor and old believers offended!

[Bayonet]

Quote: igorka357

I don’t understand which dibil will wash on such a machine for 27 years ... Oh ... I came up with a river and women, they can always wash .. sorry if I offended any of the poor and old-believers!

Nah, everything's fine. I changed mine, and 16 years - taking into account the time of work in the country. If the device is normal both in appearance and in operation, why throw it away?

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Bayonet

I read for fun reviews

such a review, if you wish, you will find on any product ... give you an example? or will not clog the site?

[Bayonet]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

? or will not clog the site?

Of course we won’t! Ours is still better!

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Bayonet

.... I read reviews for the sake of interest.

"Vyatka-automatic machine" was my first washing machine, bought almost immediately after the wedding. This was in the days when diapers were not yet in use - there were diapers that were washed every day. + all other wash.
Without complaints, the washing machine worked for 12 years. For all the time the temperature sensor has been replaced. After 12 years, some kind of bearing flew - I did not begin to repair it, I bought a new washer (LG)

[vorobey]

Quote: Igor39

I have a Samsung washing machine

And I have Swedish Indesit since 98, plows .. and feel sorry for throwing out .. and already tired ..

it all depends on the staff ... hackneyed link ... Hindus know how to work with technology

a hackneyed video two years ago still posted ..

[atalef]

Quote: vorobey

. Hindus know how to work with technology

By the way, this is the Israeli Beaufort (produced by the Sultam.)

[vorobey]

Quote: atalef

By the way, this is the Israeli Beaufort (produced by the Sultam.)

Hi Sanya ... who speaks Swedish who claims Israeli

[atalef]

Quote: vorobey

Hi Sanya ... who speaks Swedish who claims Israeli

Hi
I agree, my mistake, but they jump beautifully
Like grasshoppers, although it's even more epic

[atalef]

one more
Entourage

[Cat man null]

Quote: atalef

Entourage

For some reason, Kin-Dza-Dza immediately remembered. Ku !!

[vorobey]

Quote: Cat Man Null

Quote: atalef

Entourage

For some reason, Kin-Dza-Dza immediately remembered. Ku !!

a society without color differentiation of pants has no future

[Cat man null]

Quote: vorobey

a society without color differentiation of pants has no future

The second clip amused where the border is.

- pants for Indians and Pakistanis - different colors
- and the "drill techniques" (jerkiness and rukomashstvo, that is) - are almost identical

[vorobey]

Quote: Cat Man Null

(jerking and handicraft, that is) - are almost identical

the sharper the worse.

[Ronino]

so people alone are different faith!

[tupolev-95]

Hmm - cocky roosters.

[Semen Semyonitch]

Quote: atalef

one more
Entourage

Is this a ritual of intimidation?

[UREC]

Peacock mating dances.

[veteran66]

It looks like a party of youngsters dancing somewhere on the Arbat.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: atalef

although it's even more epic

I don’t understand, is it a circus or an army?

[Michael_59]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Is it a circus or an army?

This is India. Drill Kama Sutra.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

I don’t understand, is it a circus or an army?

A curious, hilarious and absurd, but extremely colorful event takes place every evening between 16 p.m. and 18 p.m. (at sunset) in the border town of Attari Vaga, 32 km from Amritsar. A cloud of people is gathering at this event ...- five thousand Indian people and a couple thousand from the Pakistani side. The whole action is very funny, colorful takes place to music with dancing and songs, slogans and speeches
outwardly, a complete idyll is observed, although relations between India and Pakistan are rather strained ... The ceremony, accompanied by a militant march of ceremonially dressed military men on both sides, is essentially reduced to lowering the state flags and locking the cast-iron gates with a bolt, but the pathos with which this is arranged can envy state receptions at the highest level! Everything came together here - and comical pompons and plumes in the form of border guards, and bulging legs in a march above the head, and sharp movements of the head, designed to intimidate the enemy, but in reality resembling cockerels, and sizzling glances towards the despicable enemy. The gates, of course, are slammed shut with the maximum clang and are generously hung with locks. The border is closed - you can sleep peacefully at night!

[Berthan]

And it does not seem that the majority of tourists are among the audience. Quite the contrary - the harness themselves and the Prutsts themselves)

[UREC]

Introducing other army rituals!

[paxil]

Well, of course, artillery is the god of war. Well, the Indians are funny like that with their clowning

[Strashila]

But in a real battle, they will not be located on a level platform, clean under a whisk ... but in a full deep Jo, called a caponier.

[msm]

Cool jump! I recognize instructors from Ukraine ...

[AID.S]

The calculation is handsome, just "Swan Lake" ...

[UREC]

Cool droids! Are they included in the art or an option?

[Volgroo]

It should be shown to the music of the Nutcracker. Beautiful ballet will be.

[BOB044]

I have a Samsung washing machine, everything plows and plows, I don’t think self-propelled guns are worse, but do we have a washing machine? winked

And I have a washing machine. Italy has been plowing trouble-free for 19 years. So what.

[mich]

The most plowing self-propelled gun)

[Bayonet]

Quote: Mich

The most plowing self-propelled gun)

This is a "self-propelled gun" northern brothers

[Bayonet]

Quote: Mich

The most plowing self-propelled gun)

This is a self-propelled gun of the northern brothers

[Semen Semyonitch]

Quote: Igor39

I have a Samsung washing machine, everything plows and plows,

You mess with the instructions ... She must also wash

[gor530]

Russians just saved again and didn’t put a radio in the cockpit. because they are going to war. and Samsung stuck the plasma inside, it’s bad to fight on it, but on the exercises it’s the most laf.

[FREGATENKAPITAN]

But this is not a joke at all ... namely, the answer to many questions .......... Here, by the way, we put conditionals on tanks to Indians ... and such buyers as Indians, for example, are very capricious and demanding in this regard in the little things!

[Fonmeg]

"A state with a nail on the map", and economic and intellectual potential is the envy of many! Wipe our nose, so we have to work and work.

[Juborg]

The Korean self-propelled gun is, first of all, a high-tech product, that is, both sights and controls and a suspension, hence the results. "Msta-S" is a product of the Soviet art-tank building, with minor changes in firing and aiming controls. We easily bypassed competitors from Europe and the USA, but the Koreans did not succeed, it seems that the point is in a different approach to the car itself. The Koreans focused on non-electronic brains throughout the car, that is, the computer is responsible for everything (from the suspension to aiming and shooting), whether it is good or bad, time will tell. But the fact that ours bypassed other competitors says something.

[max702]

Quote: juborg

The Korean self-propelled gun is, first of all, a high-tech product, that is, both sights and controls and a suspension, hence the results. "Msta-S" is a product of the Soviet art-tank building,

You still do not forget that our can shoot with pre-revolutionary shells, but the Korean one, and most likely only with their own, hence the accuracy .. If someone can shoot a World War I shell as modern, then it’s an honor and praise, but there aren’t any ..

[veteran66]

Quote: max702

If someone can shoot with a World War I shell as modern, then honor and praise be to him, but there aren’t any ..

What is it for?

[Bayonet]

Quote: max702

You still do not forget that our can shoot even with pre-revolutionary shells

Maybe the Indians do not have pre-revolutionary shells (a serious omission ), so they chose K-9?

[avt]

Quote: Igor39

You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything,

You need to pull up, but you can push up. But here again, Indian diversification of supplies is more likely rather than the choice of reliable weapons that have been tested by battle, and nobody canceled the bakshish - the Korean one turned out to be fatter, and our vegetarian.

[Maksus]

Quote: avt

You need to pull up, but you can push up. But here again Indian diversification of supplies rather than choice reliable weapons tested by battle Well, no one canceled the bakshish - the Korean one turned out to be fatter, and our vegetarian.

Do you have data on the combat use of the MSTA-S? Share, only without reference to secrecy ...

[Hammer]

Well, how can I not recall the article
http://topwar.ru/4105-korejskaya-sau-k9-thunder-populyarnaya-klassika.html
Expected ..

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Igor39

You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything, and states with a fingernail on the map.

If the Indians would like the most sophisticated self-propelled guns, they would buy the PZH2000 (the Coalition-SV has not even been adopted by the Russian army (tests are still underway), so there can be no talk of any export supplies), the Indians always want to host Partially set up production, with the Rafals it was the same, 36 bought the remaining 100 from their own production, but the French did not want to share production technologies.

[Tuzik]

it’s just that Koreans most likely sent Indians on technology transfer and building licenses, for some 800 Lyam.

[2s1122]

Igor Cho, for the panic, look whoever got out before, and after all these guys are from a sickly five. Another thing is that you need to develop your electronics, yes.

[maiman61]

The most important guide of South Korea is not with a nail!

[Sweles]

Self-propelled "Msta-S" on the Indian tender bypassed the Korean K9 Thunder

it is not evening yet, the Indians are capricious buyers, they will still refuse, as with Rafal, but ours need to be able to trade, if the question was that MSTA is older than this Tundra, then it was necessary to make some kind of "modernization-manipulation" and create an expensive one from a cheap gun - this is very attractive for the buyer ...

[Homo]

Quote: Igor39

You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything, and states with a fingernail on the map.

So they not only pulled themselves up but also pulled them in - Coalition!

[igorka357]

Where can I see her? Sarcasm if what!

[Conn]

Look at our self-propelled guns "Coalition SV" and then you will drive in someone who "needs to pull himself up", you expert crap!

[Geisenberg]

Quote: Igor39

You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything, and states with a fingernail on the map.

Accordingly, the fifth column is the size of a ball with a ballpoint pen, and therefore everything turns out right for them.

[UREC]

I am very agitated, however, that the Koreans bypassed Us and the Fritz with the paddling pools according to the performance characteristics. However, I am very agitated.

[igorka357]

TTX is not a secret, you can take a look!

[olegnmnk]

Sunday off, vacation 5 days a year.

[Basarev]

But for us this is a sign: we should nevertheless replace the self-propelled guns of the outdated generation with the Coalition. No exceptions.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Basarev

it should nevertheless be replaced by self-propelled guns of the outdated generation by the Coalition. No exceptions.

Definitely needed. But it takes time.

[leyurtim]

When the coalition is finished before the series, it may become obsolete. Already during the development of one barrel lost, and what was exclusive! In terms of efficiency, out of competition, the division stood up for the position, with the rate of fire, the Grad fired back - to tick to a new position, while the enemy regains consciousness and covers the aircraft with return fire.

[Alexander_]

Is there no air defense from aviation?

[Bayonet]

Quote: Alexander_

Is there no air defense from aviation?

Is there such an air defense - with a 100% guarantee of protection?

[jaguar]

I agree with you .... about the Coalition I heard well, do not lie for the first time 8-9 years ago .... the same is interesting, but when will it go to the series?

[Babalaykin]

Armata is not outdated, and now probably many foreign dream have lost how to develop a similar tank. I think when it appears it will dry up, so K9 is morally obsolete. Maybe it will also be with an uninhabited tower, a new line of adjustable shells.

[ssergn]

Quote: Babalaykin

Maybe it will also be with an uninhabited tower, a new line of adjustable shells.

I mean, maybe? She is already uninhabited. Or am I wrong, people, correct?

[figwam]

Something they began to think in the wrong direction)))

[Rader]

Something they began to think in the wrong direction)))

Sergey, why Samsung, and not iPhones? a mess! Complain to the LADY!

Quote: leyurtim

When the coalition is finished before the series, it may become obsolete. Already during the development of one barrel lost, and what was exclusive! In terms of efficiency, out of competition, the division stood up for the position, with the rate of fire, the Grad fired back - to tick to a new position, while the enemy regains consciousness and covers the aircraft with return fire.

The second barrel was abandoned because it was impossible to conduct aimed fire with the maximum rate of fire. After the first shot, the self-propelled gun swings and you can continue to smack only after "the pitching calms down". If you shoot in a volley (simultaneously with two barrels), other problems arise ... So exclusivity is good, but practicality is more important!

[Arkan]

According to media reports, "the Korean self-propelled gun surpassed the Russian one in the final part of the selection in terms of speed, operational mobility, combat rate of fire and accuracy of fire."

Ours has much to strive for and surpass competitors, because our defense ability depends on this.

[Mountain shooter]

And how did they want to beat the new development with a twenty-year-old self-propelled gun? What a naive approach. They would have exhibited "Acacia" ...

[Rader]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

And how did they want to beat the new development with a twenty-year-old self-propelled gun? What a naive approach. They would have exhibited "Acacia" ...

Interestingly, they put up for tender a modernized (or at least adapted) version of Msta, or exactly the same as the one standing on the construction of the Russian Federation?

[Altona]

The news, of course, is not very good, but in battle all the same, it’s not only the TTX of armaments that win, but the training of crews and crews ... So our defense industry will improve their weapons line if such competition on the market ...

[asiat_61]

Did the Koreans win on "Look"?

[Vladimir 1964]

In the final of the Indian tender for the supply of one hundred self-propelled guns Russian SAU 2C19 "Msta-S" bypassed the installation of K9 manufactured by Samsung Techwin, reports Lenta.ru.

Of all the competitors in this tender, only the Koreans put up a really new, not modernized, artillery system, but how do the Koreans know how to do it, colleagues, not by hearsay, so I don’t see anything strange in the results of the tender.

Something like this.

[alone]

The K9 is a really strong self-propelled gun. So, no wonder.

[Vladimir 1964]

Quote: lonely

The K9 is a really strong self-propelled gun. So, no wonder.

So it is, and the level of technology there is considered the highest for artillery systems, and absolutely all experts admit this.

Type agreed and slightly supplemented, Dear Omar Khayyam.

[alone]

Quote: Vladimir 1964

Ipa agreed and slightly supplemented, Dear Omar Khayyam.

Addition to the place)))

[sergant1.1]

not a fact. a tender is not always the best product. and if a Korean product is actually better in terms of the parameters indicated, then it is likely inferior in some other way. There is a flip side to the coin.

[Vladimir 1964]

Quote: sergant1.1

not a fact. a tender is not always the best product. and if a Korean product is actually better in terms of the parameters indicated, then it is likely inferior in some other way. There is a flip side to the coin.

Dear Sergey, if of course we proceed from this point of view, then yes, and the "Armata" has drawbacks - it does not float.

Type I jerk.

[kil 31]

Well, everything "Samsung" was crumpled up, I have a Samsung TV in one of the rooms I won't watch. Let Roscosmos support me and take the rocket from them.

[2s1122]

Aha ACS Korean-firmware Chinese, was "Samsung" became "ZTE"

[traveler]

Turks have been producing this self-propelled gun under license for a long time, now the Indians will buy more. samsung brooms do not knit

[CRASH]

How so, hurray patriots? Our MSTY is "the best in the world", and if the "Coalition" fails, then hurray patriots will break the template It's funny to read "This is a muddy tender" "Koreans paid extra"

[Altona]

Quote: CRASH.

How so, hurray patriots? Our MSTY is "the best in the world", and if the "Coalition" fails, then hurray patriots will break the template

----------------------
Yes, it will not be ... The purchase of high-tech weapons is also not always a good thing, Iraq, for example, does not want American "the best weapon", it is difficult, expensive to maintain, does not live in the sand for long ...

[skifd]

CRASH RU Today, 12: 26

How so, hurray patriots? Our MSTY are "the best in the world", and if the "Coalition" fails, then the patriots will break the template laughing It's funny to read "This is a muddy tender" "Koreans paid extra" laughing

And I was waiting for the poison to pour ... From bile heartburn does not torment?

[tupolev-95]

It is not surprising that the SPG of the 21st century surpassed the SPG of the late 20th. And yours - if the "Coalition" fails - is from the same series as the "muddy tender." "Msta" did not fail in its time and the "Coalition" will not disappoint.

[RUSIVAN]

Self-propelled gun "Msta-S" at an Indian tender bypassed the Korean K9 Thunder.
It may of course have surpassed in many respects, but our equipment is developed for practicality, which is connected with the conditions in which this equipment is used, yes, Msta-equipment is not new, but how would K 9 have shown itself, for example, in severe climatic conditions, from winter frosts to the sizzling heat, from high humidity to sand dust of deserts.

[wild]

At one time, Hitler produced so many diverse techniques that endless strings of storage depots and so on stretched to the battlefield. sometimes monotony is better than a hodgepodge.

[igorka357]

What does your attack have to do with it, maybe then there is no need to develop anything new? So we can work with mosquitoes then, we probably have their ship in warehouses, and they are all the same!

[sabakina]

I think Msta-S will take revenge. Syria will show. And finally, Msta understands only Russian, well, one that is completely Russian ...

[alone]

Quote: sabakina

I think Msta-S will take revenge. Syria will show. And finally, Msta understands only Russian, well, one that is completely Russian ...

Well, you have turned down. Recently, at our large-scale exercises, our proved that the MSTA understands not Russian, but also Azerbaijani)))

[sabakina]

Russian is not literary, it is understandable in Africa ...

[Altona]

Quote: sabakina

I think Msta-S will take revenge. Syria will show. And finally, Msta understands only Russian, well, one that is completely Russian ...

----------------------
As Rostislav Ishchenko recently wrote in his article, I quote approximately, the source is lower ... In Syria, ISIS is bombing the same number and model lineup of air groupings that performed in Ukraine last year — these are Su-24 and Su-25 ... Only in Ukraine, former miners and hairdressers quickly drove away aviation with brooms, and in Syria, Russian aviation successfully hacked ISIS infrastructure, acting as part of a complex of ground and space services ... So look at the capabilities of not new weapons when used correctly ...

http://ria.ru/analytics/20151008/1298905105.html

[alone]

Quote: Altona

only in Ukraine aviation was quickly driven away by brooms by former miners and hairdressers,

Forgot to add metallurgists. Still believe in fairy tales?))))

[Anatole]

There is no difference in a peaceful profession if you are in reserve.

[alone]

Quote: Anatole

There is no difference in a peaceful profession if you are in reserve.

In Ukraine, the army was ruined, within 23 years it was practically destroyed. Statistically, miners are 40 years old. And what stock can we talk about in Ukraine, especially in air defense. Do you understand what an air defense system is? You think it is so easy, took it after 10 years, got on the control panel and immediately started acting? The fact that they shot down, shot down is not a matter of dispute. But the miners have nothing to do with it.

Specialists acted. Here I readily believe. Open YouTube and look at the militia in April-May 2014. Look at those who took the Slavic City Council, the city department. See how they hold small arms. Miners cannot handle them that way. Only professionals hold such arms.

[Captain nemo]

Quote: lonely

Acted specialists

We probably won't recognize many who shot down, but I remember how a helicopter with a general and other "people who honestly took the oath to the people of Ukraine" was shot down in Slavyansk. The APU put forward special forces killed the one who fired from the MANPADS, he was a 23-year-old boy, or something like that, thus 23-18 = 5 18 years of "collapse" of the APU did not affect him, and moreover, for the other five years, he then I got it. Of course, the helicopter was not equipped with protection against MANPADS, and it could not have been knocked out by a pro, but that's another story.

[sabakina]

There are those who will not be able to shoot themselves from a double-barreled gun, but there are those who will be able to shoot from the "Coalition" ...
R.S. I'm talking about "lefties" ...

[igorka357]

I am absolutely 100% sure ... to separate the shooters with MANPADS with two fingers about ... asphalt, the MANPADS itself in the past, and not only

[sabakina]

They asked themselves, they answered ... And what am I? I’m sitting, fixing the primus ...

[ALEA IACTA EST]

What about the Coalition?

[Maxom75]

Hindus create such a hodgepodge by type of weapon that it becomes scary how to repair and keep everything afloat in the event of a real conflict. It takes a bunch of specialists for different types of equipment, built to different standards and everything needs to be combined on the battlefield. Difficult task.

[Anatole]

For their large country, the main thing is the accumulation of technology.

[silverwolf88]

You can have a different attitude to this result ... for example - GOOD CHALLENGE TO OUR TECHNIQUE ... WE NEED TO LEARN DETAILS AND MAKE THE RIGHT CONCLUSIONS TO IMPROVE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF ARTSYSTEMS ... and calmly continue to work))

[Hauptam]

Different levels of technology Msta comes from the 80s and T9 from 00. The Coalition would be pulled over.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Hauptam

The Coalition would be pulled over.

It would be nice. And what do we know how the Coalition really works?

[Boricello]

Well, to be objective, the Korean self-propelled gun is really better than the MSTA. But keep in mind that the MSTA is a development of 80 years. And she almost competed on equal terms with the latest self-propelled guns. There is reason for pride. The coalition indisputably devotes to koreyoz.

[Boricello]

Quote: Altona

As Rostislav Ishchenko recently wrote in his article, I quote approximately, the source is lower ... In Syria, ISIS is bombing the same number and model range of air group that performed in Ukraine last year, these are Su-24 and Su-25 ..

Ishchenko writes nonsense even though the general. In Hohland, aircraft remained at the level of 80 years. Neither electronic warfare nor new sights and navigation systems. This is to compare toyot equal to 1 year of release and the latest of them. The name is the same and the essence is completely different.

[Captain nemo]

Quote: Boricello

In Hohland, aircraft remained at the level of 80 years. Neither electronic warfare nor new sights and navigation systems.

Apsalyutna agrees with you, there are only cowards living around Ukraine, traitors and thieves who put something newer than 24 reptiles on their SU-25, SU-80.

[Tra-ta-ta]

Price the future contract valued at $ 800 million
Past tenders have been canceled for various reasons ...
No one here would refuse to attend this contest ..! But it is possible that even this time the Indians made a free show for themselves ...

[Fedor Bolts]

Yes, enough to think that the LA-7 can still be sold (against nothing, an excellent fighter of its time). But the backlog of the 80s ends, and young designers brought up on idiotic light construction in five years will drive the country into barbarians. And for engineering specialties (on the defensive side) education should generally be done free of charge

[VadimSt]

Maybe Korean is better and more presentable. Everything is always more beautiful and fashionable at the exhibition! And so far no one knows what to do with it in the "field" and after it.
Once upon a time, with a brother in law in the capital. I bought a gift for my son, a mechanically controlled tank through a cable, he took a more fashionable car, with a remote control, on batteries. My rumpled, sometimes rusty and moving only forward gift grandchildren also played, and my nephew sent his gift to the scrap two months later!
AK, also adopted in the distant 1949, and until then in honor and respect!

[F.Vastag]

The same Hr..b (Kipezh and Discussion) We were here at the Forum when a Tank was noticed near Ukrov (near Mariupol) - it looks very much like a South Korean one (they say, as a prototype, the Americans, through the South Koreans, transferred one tank to Kiev for combat use). K9 - really Nowhere and Never been used - and how it will behave in a Real battle is also unknown. Therefore, I am For Our Modernized Proven "MSTA" and a new "Coalition." And the Indians bought so many completely different (in terms of performance characteristics, etc.) military equipment (from different countries) - that they will then be tortured to Serve it (Repair, Operation, etc.). As it was rightly noted here - sometimes Monotony (in the choice of one or another type of Weapon) - Better than Brownian Variety (when there is a lot of everything - everything is different - and the approach to the corresponding technique is Absolutely Different)

[FANTOM-72]

Quote: yushch

Msta has been fighting for several years

Not the first decade, for a second.

[Pacifist]

K9 was developed almost 10 years later. So the result is not surprising. But you need to pull yourself up. It would be interesting to compare the most extreme modifications. For example, K9 and the Coalition.

[Strashila]

"The Korean self-propelled gun surpassed the Russian one in the final part of the selection in speed, operational mobility, combat rate of fire and accuracy of shooting" ... the training ground is not a war.
They exploit a year and howl ... Korean, not ours designed for dirt and a sledgehammer, that is, for military operating conditions. And as the Indians showed life by themselves, those other users of technology ... instructions for the full drum.
German G36 rifles were also good at blockbusters, shmaly, I don’t want to ... only the war showed that this was bullshit.

[rusakov89]

Hindus, as always, are cunning and can be understood, now they need production technologies and in the future acquire their own development.

[Bayonet]

Quote: rusakov89

Hindus, as always, are cunning and can be understood, now they need production technologies and in the future acquire their own development.

This is just not "cleverness", but a very clever approach!

[mich]

I don’t remember something delivering ultramodern Korean equipment to Iraq, they took proven and reliable weapons from Russia.

[Ronino]

I think the Koreans also well spread the Indians ...

[Coboklo]

The British have infected over centuries of colonization.
They will never be our sincere allies.
A self-propelled gun is only a business, nothing personal.

[Sukhoi]

A very strange decision. And they could well save time and money by producing Mstu on the basis of their own T-72 or T-90.

[Ze Kot]

And once the words "Korean car, Korean electronics" caused a smile ... And now electronics, military equipment, shipbuilding ...

[Strashila]

And all these achievements began after meeting with Russian realities ... and before that they had caused not only a smile, but were common names.

[colonel manuch]

Why so upset, finalize, modernize and go ahead. Hindus just podzalelsya.

[Strashila]

"The Korean self-propelled gun surpassed the Russian one in the final part of the selection in speed, operational mobility, combat rate of fire and accuracy of shooting" ... in fact, war is an economy.
SkokA is worth hitting a target from Russian weapons, and SkokA from Korean.
Let the numbers sound ... and understand it’s not necessary to hammer nails with a microscope, but more aesthetically, more prestigious, more innovative ... but very, very expensive.

[Izotovp]

I think something new will be based on Almaty, you have to wait a bit.
It is interesting how the ultramodern Korean Daewoo K11 rifles showed themselves in Afghanistan, it seems that there were problems.

[IAlex]

Daewoo already 10 years ago went bankrupt and liquidated ...

[IAlex]

Daewoo already 10 years ago went bankrupt and liquidated ...

[IAlex]

Well, for the success of the Koreans, you can rejoice, such progress and the Asian tiger ...

[Mentat]

Quote: Igor39

I have a Samsung washing machine, everything plows and plows, I don’t think self-propelled guns are worse, but do we have a washing machine?

How does one relate to the other? Now let's talk about nail files where they are, which means there are self-propelled guns of incredible characteristics.

[k_ply]

Quote: IAlex

Daewoo already 10 years ago went bankrupt and liquidated ...

Catalog of weapons products of the company that changed its name:
http://www.sntmotiv.com/eng/business/data/defence_catalog.pdf
(off.site: http://www.sntmotiv.com/eng/main/main.html)

[Comrade Artem]

Does this sau probably have Wi-Fi and a remote control? and LCD 3D screen?

[k_ply]

Quote: igorka357

... 2S19 yes shot, but not 2S19M2!

Obviously, the 155 mm self-propelled guns with a barrel length of 52 caliber (155 / L52 - NATO standard) participated in the competitive tests, if you do not invent it, then the 2C19M1-155 howitzer took part on our part, the artillery system 2C19M2 has a 152 / Russian-caliber gun 47.

Quote: Basarev

But for us this is a sign: we should nevertheless replace the self-propelled guns of the outdated generation with the Coalition. No exceptions.

American, British, French, German, Israeli and Slovak artillery systems also dropped out of the competition.

And why did the experts of Mstu immediately disregard, even neglect modernization, extradite and lay the Coalition ?!
Hindus plan to replace new howitzers with a total of 110 122-mm self-propelled guns of type 2C1 Gvozdika.

In total, in the coming 10 years, the Indian Ministry of Defense intends to acquire 814 artillery systems worth about $ 2,4 billion.

- Here, including self-propelled tracked and wheeled (180), as well as towed artillery systems, self-propelled (155 / L45 - modernization of the Swedish FH-77B (155 / L39), and already purchased 149 155-mm light howitzers M777 (155 / 39).
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/dhanush-155mm-artillery-gun-a-make-in-in
dia-marvel /
http://swarajyamag.com/politics/finally-army-to-get-its-dhanush/

[k_ply]

According to media reports, "the Korean self-propelled gun surpassed the Russian one in the final part of the selection in terms of speed, operational mobility, combat rate of fire and accuracy of fire."

You can, of course, "drive" about the supposedly outdated shells, but with the same caliber 155/52 for all SPGs.
We need perfect inertial and satellite navigation and topographic and geodetic reference systems, which directly affect the accuracy of shooting, autonomy and rate of fire, including Speaking of mobility, we need a more powerful engine, speaking of and rate of fire, then a lot depends on the coherence of the crew (calculation), the difference in 1, maybe 2 shots is insignificant as well as random, especially in the conditions of proving ground tests.

[Raider]

It is clear, ours, it is insulting. Let's go without the "hap". This is a loss, if not the gunsmiths, then the sellers. So the Koreans were able to hide their disadvantages, but we did not. The strongest wins. Of course, I wanted to compare the cost of these systems. In any case, this is a call - progress does not stand still, gunsmiths and PR specialists have to work, there is nothing shameful to learn from the winners in order to become better than them. IMHO. Good luck everyone!!