Military Review

Self-propelled "Msta-S" on the Indian tender bypassed the Korean K9 Thunder

189
In the final of the Indian tender for the supply of one hundred self-propelled guns Russian SAU 2C19 "Msta-S" bypassed the installation of K9 manufactured by Samsung Techwin, reports Lenta.ru report.




The parties agreed that half of the order (50 installations) will be produced under license in India. The cost of the future contract is estimated at $ 800 million.

According to media reports, "the Korean self-propelled gun surpassed the Russian one in the final part of the selection in terms of speed, operational mobility, combat rate of fire and accuracy of fire."

American, British, French, German, Israeli and Slovak artillery systems also dropped out of the competition.

In total, in the coming 10 years, the Indian Ministry of Defense intends to acquire 814 artillery systems worth about $ 2,4 billion.

As the newspaper writes, India has been looking for suitable self-propelled and towed artillery systems for its army for many years. Past tenders have been canceled for various reasons. The current competition, during which the choice fell on South Korean products, was announced in 2014.
Photos used:
http://modernweapon.ru/
189 comments
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  1. Igor39
    Igor39 10 October 2015 11: 57 New
    77
    You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything, and states with a fingernail on the map.
    1. Baikonur
      Baikonur 10 October 2015 11: 59 New
      10
      Exactly.
      Мстя нашей "МСТЫ"
      will be cruel! laughing

      (pun intended!)
      1. Darkmor
        Darkmor 10 October 2015 12: 21 New
        113
        Well, MSTA-S, this is still a Soviet development, so it is considered obsolete.
        K9, as far as I remember, was adopted somewhere in the 2000m.
        Not surprisingly, the newer howitzer showed the best performance characteristics. The only question is the price.
        Well, the Korean howitzer, due to the fact that it is relatively new, was not used in real combat conditions.
        This is how to compare Kalashnikov with X & K.
        If we take into account only combat use, I would prefer MCTA.
        But, given the clause of the contract, according to which part of the installations is carried out by India itself (i.e. they receive all production technologies), the option with the newer k9 is preferable - most likely, this was the decisive argument.

        The only question is - was Korea worth giving India its technology?
        I would even say that the K9 self-propelled gun is in some ways really bad, since Korea so easily parted with the drawings.
        For the same reason, we will not export Armata for at least ten years - so that we will not be squeezed out of our own market segment, riveting copies of our own weapons.
        1. avg
          avg 10 October 2015 13: 01 New
          13
          Quote: Darkmor
          The only question is - was Korea worth giving India its technology?

          The Koreans are not going to stop selling K9 self-propelled guns and licenses for its production. And for the first time they already in 2004 sold a license for the production of K9 to Turkey. The Turks call her Firtina.
          1. Temples
            Temples 10 October 2015 13: 59 New
            19
            Do not forget that talking about a commercial deal.
            In addition to military specialists, commerce is involved in the deal, both on the one hand and on the other.
            What is being sold is for sale.
            Buy from someone who will give the best conditions.
            You can justify the choice after signing the contract as your heart desires.
            And far from the fact that we will hear the truth.
            Korean cars are not the best in the world for their performance characteristics, but sales are growing every year.
            So far not only TTX are guided by transactions.
            Making a good product and selling a product are different tasks. And they solve these problems in different ways.
            1. msm
              msm 10 October 2015 15: 57 New
              +6
              Korean cars are not the best in the world for their performance characteristics
              Everything is exactly the opposite. Some of the best cars in the world market. And, in comfort, even in the basic configurations, they surpass the Germans by head and especially the Czechs, and others ...
              1. Edvagan
                Edvagan 10 October 2015 19: 51 New
                +3
                I agree. And the Koreans now give a guarantee of 5 years, and not three as the Germans and the Japanese. I myself go to KIA, very satisfied.
                1. TiRex
                  TiRex 12 October 2015 09: 16 New
                  +1
                  only on the Germans a guarantee for the whole car, and for the Koreans only on the box and engine ...
                  (there was a new Korean, there is a new German)
        2. jjj
          jjj 10 October 2015 13: 02 New
          13
          А стволы у корейцев лучше? Сколько выстрелов выдерживают реально в условиях боевого применения, а не в "стерильности" полигона?
          1. Homo
            Homo 10 October 2015 16: 18 New
            +2
            Quote: jjj
            А стволы у корейцев лучше? Сколько выстрелов выдерживают реально в условиях боевого применения, а не в "стерильности" полигона?

            And what kind of results will the combatant Indians have and not the specialists of the manufacturer’s factory.
          2. nfoma80
            nfoma80 11 October 2015 00: 25 New
            +2
            Don’t worry, the tests have passed, these 41 years of your hat-thinking mood have been evoked, you persistently do not notice what you are behind, and then you will blame us, God forbid, of course.
          3. nfoma80
            nfoma80 11 October 2015 00: 25 New
            0
            Don’t worry, the tests have passed, these 41 years of your hat-thinking mood have been evoked, you persistently do not notice what you are behind, and then you will blame us, God forbid, of course.
          4. ver_
            ver_ 11 October 2015 04: 25 New
            0
            ... completely in the hole ...
          5. ver_
            ver_ 11 October 2015 04: 25 New
            0
            ... completely in the hole ...
        3. afdjhbn67
          afdjhbn67 10 October 2015 13: 05 New
          14
          And something ours began to lose many tenders in India .. the inertia of the Gandhi era ended ??
          1. Homo
            Homo 10 October 2015 16: 19 New
            0
            Quote: afdjhbn67
            And something ours began to lose many tenders in India .. the inertia of the Gandhi era ended ??

            Money ends - it’s a crisis, so they’re buying not only what’s better, but because there’s enough money.
            1. afdjhbn67
              afdjhbn67 10 October 2015 16: 30 New
              +2
              Quote: Homo
              Quote: afdjhbn67
              And something ours began to lose many tenders in India .. the inertia of the Gandhi era ended ??

              Money ends - it’s a crisis, so they’re buying not only what’s better, but because there’s enough money.


              Так вроде наша техника подешевле "рафалей" итд, не аргумент однако..
          2. Darkoff
            Darkoff 10 October 2015 19: 22 New
            +6
            I am joining. Moreover, the chassis (T-72 platform) of our self-propelled guns was mastered by the Indians a long time ago and they made it under license in decent quantities. This, in a way, should have been a trump card in the competition.
            1. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 12 October 2015 00: 15 New
              0
              Quote: DarkOFF
              Moreover, the chassis (T-72 platform) of our self-propelled guns was mastered by the Indians a long time ago and they made it under license in decent quantities.

              The MSTA has a chassis not from the T-72, but a hodgepodge:
              chassis from the T-80, and the engine compartment from the T-72.
          3. Voha_krim
            Voha_krim 11 October 2015 09: 19 New
            +3
            Quote: afdjhbn67
            And something ours began to lose many tenders in India .. the inertia of the Gandhi era ended ??

            In January 2012, the French fighter Rafale surpassed the Russian MiG-35 and was declared the winner of the largest international tender for the supply of weapons in Indian history. The contract was valued at more than $ 10 billion.
            Among the failures of Russia in the Indian market - the loss of the Indian tender to replace the old Russian military helicopters Mi-24. New Delhi decided to replace them not with new Russian Mi-28 and Ka-52, but with American Apache helicopters, ordering 22 overseas machines for 1,5 billion dollars. In addition, the Indian leadership chose to order American-made 15 heavy transport helicopters instead of Russian Mi-26.
            Instead of the An-24, New Delhi ordered 12 US Super Hercules (C-130) machines for $ 2,1 billion. IL-76 and its latest modification, IL-476, was also uninteresting to the Indians. They signed a $ 4,1 billion contract with the United States to purchase 10 Globemaster S-17 military transport aircraft (instead of the Il-476).
            India has also adopted the latest US reconnaissance aircraft, the Gulfstream 3. Russia’s failure is also linked to India’s refusal to continue to purchase Igla Russian portable anti-aircraft missile systems. Their place was taken by the American Stinger missile systems.
            In addition, New Delhi decided to buy the Israeli Spider missile system instead of the Russian Buk-M1-2.
            1. gjv
              gjv 11 October 2015 12: 18 New
              0
              Quote: Voha_krim
              New Delhi decided to replace them not with the new Russian Mi-28 and Ka-52, but with American Apache helicopters

              The Ka-52 did not participate in that tender, and the fate of the Ka-52K was still uncertain. Would Apache be the winner of the tender?
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. gjv
              gjv 11 October 2015 12: 22 New
              0
              Quote: Voha_krim
              In addition, the Indian leadership preferred to order 15 heavy American-made Chinook transport helicopters instead of the Russian Mi-26.

              Not instead of the Mi-26. Their Indians bought as needed. Chinook is not heavy but medium-tonnage with a rather large cargo compartment. Perhaps the Russian-Chinese project will be competitive with Chinook. Only when? request
        4. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 10 October 2015 13: 34 New
          +6
          Что то последние годы "пинки под зад"рособоронпрому участились....
        5. Bayonet
          Bayonet 10 October 2015 15: 08 New
          0
          Quote: Darkmor
          K9, as far as I remember, was adopted somewhere in the 2000m.

          155 mm self-propelled howitzer K9 Thunder
          Main producer: South Korea
          Name: K9 Thunder
          Type: Artillery System
          Year of adoption: 2004
        6. whiteeagle
          whiteeagle 10 October 2015 15: 27 New
          +2
          the Korean howitzer was operated in real combat conditions. Always after a missile attack by the state of Kim.
          1. Panikovsky
            Panikovsky 10 October 2015 20: 24 New
            +4
            Quote: whiteeagle
            the Korean howitzer was operated in real combat conditions. Always after a missile attack by the state of Kim.

            it is not indicative. Well, arrows in response, the same results as Kim. no one is cold or hot.
        7. igorka357
          igorka357 10 October 2015 16: 05 New
          0
          I beg you ... what world do you live in, the hackler shot a lot where, if I ask, I can list it, and with respect to reliability it’s not a bad machine .. although I’m standing next to Kalash! And don’t tell me where I got the 2C19M2 combat use. .. that's it, 2S19 yes shot, but not 2S19M2!
        8. scoop
          scoop 10 October 2015 16: 38 New
          +2
          я таки вас умоляю "технология". вот клепают русские БМВ, но это не значит, что они овладели какой-то там "технологией". корейцы не глупее нас с вами, всё просчитают, будьте покойны.
        9. Cossack Ermak
          Cossack Ermak 10 October 2015 16: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: Darkmor
          The only question is - was Korea worth giving India its technology?

          So Korea has a newer development.
        10. mervino2007
          mervino2007 11 October 2015 01: 58 New
          0
          Quote: Darkmor
          I would even say that the K9 self-propelled gun is in some ways really bad, since Korea so easily parted with the drawings.

          Реально плоха? А с этим как быть:<По данным СМИ, «корейская самоходка превзошла российскую в финальной части отбора по скорости, оперативной мобильности, боевой скорострельности и точности стрельбы».> Есть "другие" данные ТТХ? Особо отмечу "превзошла по точности стрельбы" - это ведь главное.
        11. ver_
          ver_ 11 October 2015 04: 23 New
          0
          ... technologists - this small box does not always open so simply even if everything is written in the papers ... well, a little bit and .. - a dog down the drain ..
        12. aleks700
          aleks700 11 October 2015 08: 06 New
          0
          "The Korean self-propelled gun surpassed the Russian one in the final part of the selection in speed, operational mobility, combat rate of fire and accuracy of shooting."

          I would even say that the K9 self-propelled gun is in some ways really bad, since Korea so easily parted with the drawings.

          And why could it be worse.
      2. evil partisan
        evil partisan 10 October 2015 12: 29 New
        +5
        Quote: Baikonur
        Мстя нашей "МСТЫ"
        will be cruel!

        Yeah. Take someone else to the Coalition ... winked
        1. vorobey
          vorobey 10 October 2015 12: 59 New
          11
          Quote: wicked partisan
          Quote: Baikonur
          Мстя нашей "МСТЫ"
          will be cruel!

          Yeah. Take someone else to the Coalition ... winked


          Hi Ethiop .. how do you like yesterday’s ballet? Corvalol ate all? you say to the coalition ... here KAMAZ recently showed a 16x16 platform ..

          мне кажется "Берег" получит сразу три орудийные башни .. или четыре laughing repeat This is a coalition
          1. UREC
            UREC 10 October 2015 20: 21 New
            +3
            Шикарный "натюрморт "от мариниста -баталиста . А 3-4 башни вообще будет шедевр!
            1. vorobey
              vorobey 10 October 2015 21: 41 New
              +2
              Quote: UREC
              Шикарный "натюрморт "от мариниста -баталиста . А 3-4 башни вообще будет шедевр!


              I saw them for the first time in Sevastopol in 93 at a training exercise ... we then repelled a likely landing ... Beautifully put daredevils ... well, about three or four it's a joke .. laughing
        2. 23 region
          23 region 10 October 2015 22: 04 New
          0
          Quote: wicked partisan
          Quote: Baikonur
          Мстя нашей "МСТЫ"
          will be cruel!

          Yeah. Take someone else to the Coalition ... winked

          Может эту? 152мм САУ на базе АТС-59. Корейский "Гиацинт" видимо.
          1. gjv
            gjv 11 October 2015 12: 33 New
            0
            Quote: Region 23
            Maybe this one?

            Ага. yes And the 170mm Coxane ...

    2. yushch
      yushch 10 October 2015 12: 09 New
      31
      Quote: Igor39
      You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything, and states with a fingernail on the map.

      Do not forget the fact that our Msta has been fighting for more than a year. I have not heard about the K9 combat experience. That is, all of these advantages can be crossed out by one reliability factor in battle, the factor of which our weapons are famous for in the first place. What is accuracy, mobility and rate of fire if the weapon does not withstand work in harsh combat conditions.
      P.S. I absolutely do not claim that the Korean self-propelled gun is unreliable, I just say that the reliability of our self-propelled guns is tested in the conditions of tough BD, and the Korean one is not.
      1. Hubun
        Hubun 10 October 2015 12: 16 New
        +9
        I absolutely agree with you. The clumsiness of some indicators more than overlaps with reliability. Well, the fact that they purged the tender, I think, will be beneficial. Stimulates further development
        1. Maxom75
          Maxom75 10 October 2015 12: 52 New
          +4
          We have a problem firing range and accuracy. K9, more precisely, they have a GPS-corrected projectile and apparently a better ballistic computer. But we, too, do not stand still. The problem is Koreans price, very expensive. And one more thing, they are not being adopted by NATO countries, I prefer Amer’s. It seems they said that K9 has problems when working in areas susceptible to radiation infection.
        2. stas132
          stas132 10 October 2015 15: 46 New
          +5
          Even according to Wikipedia, our lighter, faster, longer range and higher rate of fire. Most likely this is a policy, so as not to become attached to our systems.
      2. Maxom75
        Maxom75 10 October 2015 12: 46 New
        +7
        К9 реально интересный вариант. Смотрел про неё фильм впечатляет. Весьма надёжна и быстра, скорострельность большая, работает даже при дистанционном целеуказании (данные наведения передают непосредственно на компьютер САУ с командного пункта), дополнительно может изменить угол наклона корпуса за счёт гидроамартизаторов, высокая степень автоматизации. Судя по ТТХ это всё учли в "Коалиции". Впринципе и МСТА могут подтянуть к К9. Правда нет данных о характеристиках ствола и его надёжности. Корейцы делают хорошие стали, но есть определённые сомнения.
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet 10 October 2015 15: 19 New
          0
          Quote: Maxom75
          Koreans make good steel, but there are certain doubts.

          Только потому, что это "какие то корейцы"? smile
          1. Maxom75
            Maxom75 10 October 2015 21: 51 New
            +3
            No, I just encountered at the time that the Koreans ordered a number of special steels and products from them in Germany and the USA.
      3. atalef
        atalef 10 October 2015 12: 55 New
        -12
        Quote: yushch
        Do not forget the fact that our Msta has been fighting for several years. I have not heard about the K9 combat experience.

        So no one has heard about the S-300, but the Patriots have already shot down missiles, UAVs, and planes more than once.
        those. Is everything you said about K9 relevant to c-300?
        Quote: yushch
        That is, all of these advantages can be crossed out by one reliability factor in battle, the factor of which our weapons are famous in the first place.

        In what battle? Msta participated in a full-fledged armed conflict? With counter-battery and electronic warfare counteraction, with the possibility of an air force attack?
        Quote: yushch
        P.S. I absolutely do not claim that the Korean self-propelled gun is unreliable, I just say that the reliability of our self-propelled guns is tested in the conditions of tough B.D.

        Where?
        1. FREGATENKAPITAN
          FREGATENKAPITAN 10 October 2015 13: 15 New
          +3
          Where?................................. This is not customary to say out loud! wink
        2. bif
          bif 10 October 2015 13: 59 New
          14
          Quote: atalef
          Where?

          "Я бы вам ответил… Но мой знакомый гинеколог утверждает, что и там её нет."
        3. max702
          max702 10 October 2015 14: 10 New
          11
          Quote: atalef
          So no one has heard about the S-300, but the Patriots have already shot down missiles, UAVs, and planes more than once.

          Do you really want to check the S-300? And you don’t have to go far, next to you there .. not so long ago many doubted the availability of effective Russian air forces about cruise missiles in general as they told about a fairy tale .. But it turned out like that .. So maybe it is better not to doubt about air defense? Well, you don’t have to stutter about our artillery systems
          1. Bayonet
            Bayonet 10 October 2015 15: 22 New
            +4
            Quote: max702
            Well, you don’t have to stutter about our artillery systems

            Cool! But the Indians chose K-9!
            1. avdkrd
              avdkrd 11 October 2015 11: 36 New
              0
              Quote: Bayonet
              Cool! But the Indians chose K-9!

              Hindus in terms of arms purchases make a lot of not logical and not consistent movements. You can recall the purchase of the CH-47 Chinook, instead of the MI-26, of the latter it’s Rafali (a mediocre aircraft at a price beyond reason). In India, corruption is, to put it mildly, not all right, although I can recall our throwing with the purchase of Mistral and Rysa (which did not fit at all in terms of technical characteristics, price, or state interests) Not all yoghurts are equally useful and losing in the Indian tender doesn’t necessarily indicate the superiority of the Korean self-propelled guns over ours, the Indians used to do stuffing like the Indian national tank Arjun surpasses the T-90 in all respects. Data were given on its superiority in both mobility and reliability and accuracy. So what? They got luli from the military and, despite the manufacturer’s lobby (reinforced by the Germans), they continued to purchase the T-90 as the objectively best in terms of characteristics.
        4. yushch
          yushch 10 October 2015 16: 24 New
          +7
          Quote: atalef
          Quote: yushch
          Do not forget the fact that our Msta has been fighting for several years. I have not heard about the K9 combat experience.

          So no one has heard about the S-300, but the Patriots have already shot down missiles, UAVs, and planes more than once.
          those. Is everything you said about K9 relevant to c-300?
          Quote: yushch
          That is, all of these advantages can be crossed out by one reliability factor in battle, the factor of which our weapons are famous in the first place.

          In what battle? Msta participated in a full-fledged armed conflict? With counter-battery and electronic warfare counteraction, with the possibility of an air force attack?
          Quote: yushch
          P.S. I absolutely do not claim that the Korean self-propelled gun is unreliable, I just say that the reliability of our self-propelled guns is tested in the conditions of tough B.D.

          Where?


          Там по моему "Москва"к побережью Сирии подошла и взяла под свой зонтик окрестности,кажется даже часть Израиля этот зонтик накрывает.Вот теперь и посмотрим как ваши неуязвимые ВВС попробуют бомбить объекты в Сирии.У Москвы то как раз 300е стоят "море-воздух"которые как вы утверждаете пустой звук.Но я думаю пустой звук у вас в голове скорее.
          1. Michael_59
            Michael_59 10 October 2015 16: 54 New
            +8
            Quote: yushch
            Now let's see how your invulnerable Air Force will try to bomb objects in Syria


            I sincerely hope for the sanity of the IDF, all the more so since the corresponding visits and meetings of the military at the highest level, specifically regarding Syria, have taken place. It is more beneficial for Israel to cooperate than to conflict. With us.
          2. Semen Semyonitch
            Semen Semyonitch 10 October 2015 17: 03 New
            0
            Quote: yushch
            . But I think the empty phrase in your head is more likely.

            No need to get personal, especially atalef did not give you such an occasion.
            1. yushch
              yushch 10 October 2015 17: 46 New
              -2
              Do not tell me what to do, but I will not tell you where to go.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Semen Semyonitch
                Semen Semyonitch 10 October 2015 22: 32 New
                0
                Quote: yushch
                Don't tell me what to do

                Not on your nelly...
                Quote: yushch
                and I won’t tell you where to go.

                Do you know the road?
                1. yushch
                  yushch 10 October 2015 22: 44 New
                  0
                  I know the way. And for the most gifted I can give acceleration.
                  1. Semen Semyonitch
                    Semen Semyonitch 10 October 2015 22: 52 New
                    -1
                    Quote: yushch
                    I know the way.

                    No questions...
      4. Bayonet
        Bayonet 10 October 2015 15: 16 New
        +6
        Quote: yushch
        . What is the accuracy, mobility and rate of fire if the weapon does not withstand work in harsh combat conditions.

        Hindus are very fastidious buyers. You can’t put a shit on them. Apparently the car passed the most stringent tests. Yes, and self-propelled guns do not go next to tanks to attack, their job is accurate shooting at the enemy from positions. hi
        1. UREC
          UREC 10 October 2015 20: 27 New
          +1
          Finicky in part - who will give in and roll back more.
    3. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 10 October 2015 12: 10 New
      +8
      Quote: Igor39
      You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything, and states with a fingernail on the map.

      У НАС ДАЖЕ СТАРАЯ В "ДЕЛЕ" БЫЛА,А У НИХ?
      1. Igor39
        Igor39 10 October 2015 12: 29 New
        +6
        I have a Samsung washing machine, everything plows and plows, I don’t think self-propelled guns are worse, but do we have a washing machine? winked
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 10 October 2015 12: 33 New
          13
          Quote: Igor39
          I have a Samsung washing machine, everything plows and plows, I don’t think self-propelled guns are worse, but do we have a washing machine? winked

          "вятка"...
          1. Igor39
            Igor39 10 October 2015 12: 39 New
            -2
            Vyatka is Indesit!
            1. Andrey Yuryevich
              Andrey Yuryevich 10 October 2015 13: 46 New
              +6
              Quote: Igor39
              Vyatka is Indesit!

              это было ДО "индезит"...
              1. mimo-crock3
                mimo-crock3 12 October 2015 20: 04 New
                0
                "В 1974 году кировский завод «Электробытприбор» покупает у итальянской фирмы Мерлони Проджети (ныне, Indesit) лицензию на производство стиральных машин автоматов."
            2. Ilya77
              Ilya77 10 October 2015 15: 20 New
              +1
              Quote: Igor39
              X & K.

              It’s not true, now Vyatka is Kandy.
          2. max702
            max702 10 October 2015 14: 11 New
            +6
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            "вятка"...

            And I have 19 years! replaced the belt once and that's it ..
          3. Bayonet
            Bayonet 10 October 2015 15: 38 New
            0
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            "вятка"...

            I read reviews for fun. Almost everyone writes about her jumping ability during the spin cycle, and one peasant specifically got sick of it:
            -Года два назад избавился от ВА-14. До этого пахала лет 7. Не сказать что сильно тяжело ей было - 1 человек. За это время: 2 или 3 раза менял помпу. Сгорел моторчик на командоаппарате. 2 раза менял датчики температуры. Провода на командоаппарате несколько раз от тряски соскакивали с разьемов. Контакты в командоаппарате несколько раз пришлось чистить. Выкинул я ее по причине - "задолбала ломаться", с диагнозом опять же камандоаппарат. Вердикт - задумка хорошая - исполнение плохое.

            У меня была "электролюкс" Шведская, сейчас у друзей на даче - 16 лет ей, полет нормальный. Ни ржавченки и работает как новая.
            1. Victorio
              Victorio 10 October 2015 19: 35 New
              +3
              Quote: Bayonet
              Quote: Andrey Yurievich
              "вятка"...

              I read reviews for fun. Almost everyone writes about her jumping ability during the spin cycle, and one peasant specifically got sick of it:
              -Года два назад избавился от ВА-14. До этого пахала лет 7. Не сказать что сильно тяжело ей было - 1 человек. За это время: 2 или 3 раза менял помпу. Сгорел моторчик на командоаппарате. 2 раза менял датчики температуры. Провода на командоаппарате несколько раз от тряски соскакивали с разьемов. Контакты в командоаппарате несколько раз пришлось чистить. Выкинул я ее по причине - "задолбала ломаться", с диагнозом опять же камандоаппарат. Вердикт - задумка хорошая - исполнение плохое.

              У меня была "электролюкс" Шведская, сейчас у друзей на даче - 16 лет ей, полет нормальный. Ни ржавченки и работает как новая.

              ====
              cоветская "аюка" ручная с пластмассовым барабаном работает 27 лет без ремонта, когда-то лопнуло соединение/ремень пластмассовый с таймером для чередования вращений барабана, после чего крутит только в одну сторону
              1. igorka357
                igorka357 11 October 2015 19: 40 New
                0
                Here you are writing for 16 years. 27 years, I'm sorry, but I don’t understand which dibil will wash on such a machine for 27 years ... Oh .. I’ve come up with a river and women, they can always be erased .. fellow sorry if any of the poor and old believers offended!
                1. Bayonet
                  Bayonet 11 October 2015 19: 50 New
                  0
                  Quote: igorka357
                  I don’t understand which dibil will wash on such a machine for 27 years ... Oh ... I came up with a river and women, they can always wash .. sorry if I offended any of the poor and old-believers!

                  Nah, everything's fine. I changed mine, and 16 years - taking into account the time of work in the country. If the device is normal both in appearance and in operation, why throw it away?
            2. Andrey Yuryevich
              Andrey Yuryevich 11 October 2015 06: 02 New
              0
              Quote: Bayonet
              I read for fun reviews

              such a review, if you wish, you will find on any product ... give you an example? or will not clog the site?
              1. Bayonet
                Bayonet 11 October 2015 07: 44 New
                0
                Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                ? or will not clog the site?

                Of course we won’t! Ours is still better! smile
            3. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 12 October 2015 00: 39 New
              0
              Quote: Bayonet
              .... I read reviews for the sake of interest.

              "Вятка-автомат" была моей первой стиральной машиной, купленной почти сразу после свадьбы. Это было в те времена, когда памперсы ещё были не в ходу - были пелёнки, которые стирались каждый день. + вся остальная стирка.
              Without complaints, the washing machine worked for 12 years. For all the time the temperature sensor has been replaced. After 12 years, some kind of bearing flew - I did not begin to repair it, I bought a new washer (LG)
        2. vorobey
          vorobey 10 October 2015 13: 04 New
          +7
          Quote: Igor39
          I have a Samsung washing machine


          And I have Swedish Indesit since 98, plows .. and feel sorry for throwing out .. and already tired ..

          it all depends on the staff ... hackneyed link ... Hindus know how to work with technology

          a hackneyed video two years ago still posted ..
          1. atalef
            atalef 10 October 2015 13: 15 New
            +3
            Quote: vorobey
            . Hindus know how to work with technology

            By the way, this is the Israeli Beaufort (produced by the Sultam.)
            1. vorobey
              vorobey 10 October 2015 13: 25 New
              +2
              Quote: atalef
              By the way, this is the Israeli Beaufort (produced by the Sultam.)


              Hi Sanya ... who speaks Swedish who claims Israeli
              1. atalef
                atalef 10 October 2015 13: 37 New
                13
                Quote: vorobey
                Hi Sanya ... who speaks Swedish who claims Israeli

                Hi hi
                I agree, my mistake, but they jump beautifully laughing
                Like grasshoppers, although it's even more epic
                1. atalef
                  atalef 10 October 2015 13: 46 New
                  10
                  one more
                  Entourage laughing
                  1. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 10 October 2015 13: 52 New
                    14
                    Quote: atalef
                    Entourage

                    For some reason, Kin-Dza-Dza immediately remembered. Ku !! laughing
                    1. vorobey
                      vorobey 10 October 2015 14: 37 New
                      11
                      Quote: Cat Man Null
                      Quote: atalef
                      Entourage

                      For some reason, Kin-Dza-Dza immediately remembered. Ku !! laughing


                      a society without color differentiation of pants has no future laughing
                      1. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 10 October 2015 14: 47 New
                        10
                        Quote: vorobey
                        a society without color differentiation of pants has no future

                        The second clip amused where the border is.

                        - pants for Indians and Pakistanis - different colors
                        - а "строевые приемы" (дрыгоножество и рукомашество, то бишь) - практически идентичны

                        laughing
                      2. vorobey
                        vorobey 10 October 2015 14: 55 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        (jerking and handicraft, that is) - are almost identical


                        the sharper the worse. laughing
                      3. Ronino
                        Ronino 10 October 2015 15: 24 New
                        +4
                        so people alone are different faith!
                2. tupolev-95
                  tupolev-95 10 October 2015 15: 28 New
                  +3
                  Hmm - cocky roosters.
                3. Semen Semyonitch
                  Semen Semyonitch 10 October 2015 17: 16 New
                  0
                  Quote: atalef
                  one more
                  Entourage

                  Is this a ritual of intimidation? wassat
                4. UREC
                  UREC 10 October 2015 20: 42 New
                  +2
                  Peacock mating dances.
              2. veteran66
                veteran66 10 October 2015 15: 34 New
                +1
                It looks like a party of youngsters dancing somewhere on the Arbat.
              3. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 10 October 2015 16: 27 New
                +3
                Quote: atalef
                although it's even more epic

                I don’t understand, is it a circus or an army?
                1. Michael_59
                  Michael_59 10 October 2015 17: 05 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Is it a circus or an army?


                  This is India. Drill Kama Sutra.
                2. Bayonet
                  Bayonet 10 October 2015 18: 49 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  I don’t understand, is it a circus or an army?

                  A curious, hilarious and absurd, but extremely colorful event takes place every evening between 16 p.m. and 18 p.m. (at sunset) in the border town of Attari Vaga, 32 km from Amritsar. A cloud of people is gathering at this event ...- five thousand Indian people and a couple thousand from the Pakistani side. The whole action is very funny, colorful takes place to music with dancing and songs, slogans and speeches
                  outwardly, a complete idyll is observed, although relations between India and Pakistan are rather strained ... The ceremony, accompanied by a militant march of ceremonially dressed military men on both sides, is essentially reduced to lowering the state flags and locking the cast-iron gates with a bolt, but the pathos with which this is arranged can envy state receptions at the highest level! Everything came together here - and comical pompons and plumes in the form of border guards, and bulging legs in a march above the head, and sharp movements of the head, designed to intimidate the enemy, but in reality resembling cockerels, and sizzling glances towards the despicable enemy. The gates, of course, are slammed shut with the maximum clang and are generously hung with locks. The border is closed - you can sleep peacefully at night!
              4. Berthan
                Berthan 10 October 2015 16: 36 New
                +4
                And it does not seem that the majority of tourists are among the audience. Quite the contrary - the harness themselves and the Prutsts themselves)
              5. UREC
                UREC 10 October 2015 20: 40 New
                +1
                Introducing other army rituals!
        3. paxil
          paxil 10 October 2015 14: 30 New
          +4
          Well, of course, artillery is the god of war. Well, the Indians are funny like that with their clowning laughing
        4. Strashila
          Strashila 10 October 2015 16: 10 New
          +3
          But in a real battle, they will not be located on a level platform, clean under a whisk ... but in a full deep Jo, called a caponier.
        5. msm
          msm 10 October 2015 16: 14 New
          +1
          Cool jump! I recognize instructors from Ukraine ...
        6. AID.S
          AID.S 10 October 2015 17: 16 New
          +1
          Расчет красавцы, просто "Лебединое озеро" ...
        7. UREC
          UREC 10 October 2015 20: 38 New
          +3
          Cool droids! Are they included in the art or an option?
        8. volgroo
          volgroo 10 October 2015 22: 22 New
          0
          It should be shown to the music of the Nutcracker. Beautiful ballet will be.
      2. BOB044
        BOB044 10 October 2015 13: 09 New
        +2
        I have a Samsung washing machine, everything plows and plows, I don’t think self-propelled guns are worse, but do we have a washing machine? winked
        And I have a washing machine. Italy has been plowing trouble-free for 19 years. So what. hi
      3. mich
        mich 10 October 2015 15: 04 New
        +5
        The most plowing self-propelled gun)
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet 10 October 2015 18: 55 New
          0
          Quote: Mich
          The most plowing self-propelled gun)

          Это "самоходка" smile northern brothers
        2. Bayonet
          Bayonet 10 October 2015 19: 59 New
          0
          Quote: Mich
          The most plowing self-propelled gun)

          Это "самоходка" северных братьев smile
      4. Semen Semyonitch
        Semen Semyonitch 10 October 2015 17: 08 New
        16
        Quote: Igor39
        I have a Samsung washing machine, everything plows and plows,

        You mess with the instructions ... She must also wash laughing
  2. gor530
    gor530 10 October 2015 12: 11 New
    11
    Russians just saved again and didn’t put a radio in the cockpit. because they are going to war. and Samsung stuck the plasma inside, it’s bad to fight on it, but on the exercises it’s the most laf.
    1. FREGATENKAPITAN
      FREGATENKAPITAN 10 October 2015 13: 18 New
      +1
      But this is not a joke at all ... namely, the answer to many questions .......... Here, by the way, we put conditionals on tanks to Indians ... and such buyers as Indians, for example, are very capricious and demanding in this regard in the little things!
  3. Fonmeg
    Fonmeg 10 October 2015 12: 20 New
    +3
    "Государство с ноготь на карте", а экономический и интеллектуальный потенциал на зависть многим большим! Утерли нам нос, так что нужно работать и работать.
  4. Juborg
    Juborg 10 October 2015 12: 27 New
    11
    Корейская САУ, это прежде всего высоко технологичный продукт, то есть и прицелы и управление и ходовая, отсюда результаты. "Мста-С" это продукт ещё советского арт-танкостроя, с небольшими изменениями в управлении стрельбы и прицеливания. Мы с лёгкостью обошли конкурентов из Европы и США, а вот корейцем не получилось, тут видимо дело в разном подходе к самой машине. Корейцы сделали упор не электронные мозги по всей машине, то есть за всё отвечает компьютер(начиная от подвески и кончая прицеливания и стрельбы) плохо это или хорошо время покажет. Но одно то, что наши обошли других конкурентов, это о чём то говорит.
    1. max702
      max702 10 October 2015 14: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: juborg
      Корейская САУ, это прежде всего высоко технологичный продукт, то есть и прицелы и управление и ходовая, отсюда результаты. "Мста-С" это продукт ещё советского арт-танкостроя,

      You still do not forget that our can shoot with pre-revolutionary shells, but the Korean one, and most likely only with their own, hence the accuracy .. If someone can shoot a World War I shell as modern, then it’s an honor and praise, but there aren’t any ..
      1. veteran66
        veteran66 10 October 2015 15: 39 New
        0
        Quote: max702
        If someone can shoot with a World War I shell as modern, then honor and praise be to him, but there aren’t any ..

        What is it for?
      2. Bayonet
        Bayonet 10 October 2015 15: 40 New
        0
        Quote: max702
        You still do not forget that our can shoot even with pre-revolutionary shells

        Maybe the Indians do not have pre-revolutionary shells (a serious omission smile ), so they chose K-9? hi
  5. avt
    avt 10 October 2015 12: 42 New
    +1
    Quote: Igor39
    You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything,

    You need to pull up, but you can push up. But here again, Indian diversification of supplies is more likely rather than the choice of reliable weapons that have been tested by battle, and nobody canceled the bakshish - the Korean one turned out to be fatter, and our vegetarian. laughing
    1. Maksus
      Maksus 10 October 2015 13: 33 New
      0
      Quote: avt
      You need to pull up, but you can push up. But here again Indian diversification of supplies rather than choice reliable weapons tested by battle Well, no one canceled the bakshish - the Korean one turned out to be fatter, and our vegetarian. laughing

      Do you have data on the combat use of the MSTA-S? Share, only without reference to secrecy ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  6. Hammer
    Hammer 10 October 2015 12: 47 New
    0
    Well, how can I not recall the article
    http://topwar.ru/4105-korejskaya-sau-k9-thunder-populyarnaya-klassika.html
    Expected ..
  7. Lt. Air Force stock
    Lt. Air Force stock 10 October 2015 12: 55 New
    +3
    Quote: Igor39
    You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything, and states with a fingernail on the map.

    If the Indians would like the most sophisticated self-propelled guns, they would buy the PZH2000 (the Coalition-SV has not even been adopted by the Russian army (tests are still underway), so there can be no talk of any export supplies), the Indians always want to host Partially set up production, with the Rafals it was the same, 36 bought the remaining 100 from their own production, but the French did not want to share production technologies.
  8. Tuzik
    Tuzik 10 October 2015 13: 14 New
    +1
    it’s just that Koreans most likely sent Indians on technology transfer and building licenses, for some 800 Lyam.
  9. 2s1122
    2s1122 10 October 2015 13: 22 New
    +4
    Igor Cho, for the panic, look whoever got out before, and after all these guys are from a sickly five. Another thing is that you need to develop your electronics, yes. crying
  10. maiman61
    maiman61 10 October 2015 15: 03 New
    +2
    The most important guide of South Korea is not with a nail!
  11. Sweles
    Sweles 10 October 2015 16: 04 New
    +1
    Self-propelled "Msta-S" on the Indian tender bypassed the Korean K9 Thunder

    ещё не вечер ,индейцы капризные покупатели,ещё откажутся ,как с рафалем,а нашим надо торговать уметь ,если вопрос был в том что МСТА старше этой Тундры ,то надо было совершить ,какую нибудь "модернизацию-манипуляцию" и из дешёвой пушки создать дорогую-это очень привлекает покупателя...
  12. Homo
    Homo 10 October 2015 16: 16 New
    0
    Quote: Igor39
    You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything, and states with a fingernail on the map.

    So they not only pulled themselves up but also pulled them in - Coalition!
    1. igorka357
      igorka357 11 October 2015 19: 58 New
      0
      Where can I see her? Sarcasm if what!
  13. Conn
    Conn 10 October 2015 19: 27 New
    -2
    Посмотри нашу САУ "Коалиция СВ" и тогда въедешь кому "надо подтягиваться", знаток хр*нов!
  14. Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 10 October 2015 19: 44 New
    0
    Quote: Igor39
    You need to pull yourself by self-propelled guns, Koreans know how to do everything, and states with a fingernail on the map.


    Accordingly, the fifth column is the size of a ball with a ballpoint pen, and therefore everything turns out right for them.
  15. UREC
    UREC 10 October 2015 20: 16 New
    -1
    I am very agitated, however, that the Koreans bypassed Us and the Fritz with the paddling pools according to the performance characteristics. However, I am very agitated.
    1. igorka357
      igorka357 11 October 2015 20: 00 New
      0
      TTX is not a secret, you can take a look!
  16. olegnmnk
    olegnmnk 10 October 2015 21: 57 New
    +1
    Sunday off, vacation 5 days a year.
  • Basarev
    Basarev 10 October 2015 11: 57 New
    13
    But for us this is a sign: we should nevertheless replace the self-propelled guns of the outdated generation with the Coalition. No exceptions.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 10 October 2015 12: 01 New
      +2
      Quote: Basarev
      it should nevertheless be replaced by self-propelled guns of the outdated generation by the Coalition. No exceptions.

      Definitely needed. But it takes time.
      1. leyurtim
        leyurtim 10 October 2015 12: 08 New
        +2
        When the coalition is finished before the series, it may become obsolete. Already during the development of one barrel lost, and what was exclusive! In terms of efficiency, out of competition, the division stood up for the position, with the rate of fire, the Grad fired back - to tick to a new position, while the enemy regains consciousness and covers the aircraft with return fire.
        1. Alexander_
          Alexander_ 10 October 2015 12: 13 New
          0
          Is there no air defense from aviation?
          1. Bayonet
            Bayonet 10 October 2015 15: 49 New
            0
            Quote: Alexander_
            Is there no air defense from aviation?

            Is there such an air defense - with a 100% guarantee of protection?
        2. jaguar
          jaguar 10 October 2015 12: 18 New
          +1
          I agree with you .... about the Coalition I heard well, do not lie for the first time 8-9 years ago .... the same is interesting, but when will it go to the series? hi
        3. Babalaykin
          Babalaykin 10 October 2015 17: 43 New
          +2
          Armata is not outdated, and now probably many foreign dream have lost how to develop a similar tank. I think when it appears it will dry up, so K9 is morally obsolete. Maybe it will also be with an uninhabited tower, a new line of adjustable shells.
          1. ssergn
            ssergn 10 October 2015 19: 18 New
            0
            Quote: Babalaykin
            Maybe it will also be with an uninhabited tower, a new line of adjustable shells.


            I mean, maybe? She is already uninhabited. Or am I wrong, people, correct?
    2. figwam
      figwam 10 October 2015 12: 09 New
      11
      Something they began to think in the wrong direction)))
      1. Rader
        Rader 10 October 2015 12: 18 New
        +7
        Something they began to think in the wrong direction)))

        Sergey, why Samsung, and not iPhones? a mess! Complain to the LADY! wassat


        Quote: leyurtim
        When the coalition is finished before the series, it may become obsolete. Already during the development of one barrel lost, and what was exclusive! In terms of efficiency, out of competition, the division stood up for the position, with the rate of fire, the Grad fired back - to tick to a new position, while the enemy regains consciousness and covers the aircraft with return fire.

        От второго ствола отказались потому, что вести прицельный огонь с максимальной скорострельностью было невозможно. После первого же выстрела, самоходку раскачивает и продолжить шмалять можно только после "успокоения качки". Если стрелять залпом(одновременно с двух стволов) возникают другие проблемы... Так что эксклюзивность - хорошо, но практичность важнее! hi
  • Arkan
    Arkan 10 October 2015 12: 00 New
    +3
    According to media reports, "the Korean self-propelled gun surpassed the Russian one in the final part of the selection in terms of speed, operational mobility, combat rate of fire and accuracy of fire."


    Ours has much to strive for and surpass competitors, because our defense ability depends on this.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 10 October 2015 12: 01 New
    16
    А как они хотели, двадцатилетней самоходкой побить новенькую разработку? Какой то наивный подход. Они бы ещё "Акацию" выставили...
    1. Rader
      Rader 10 October 2015 12: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      А как они хотели, двадцатилетней самоходкой побить новенькую разработку? Какой то наивный подход. Они бы ещё "Акацию" выставили...

      Interestingly, they put up for tender a modernized (or at least adapted) version of Msta, or exactly the same as the one standing on the construction of the Russian Federation?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Altona
    Altona 10 October 2015 12: 02 New
    +3
    The news, of course, is not very good, but in battle all the same, it’s not only the TTX of armaments that win, but the training of crews and crews ... So our defense industry will improve their weapons line if such competition on the market ...
  • asiat_61
    asiat_61 10 October 2015 12: 05 New
    0
    На "Взгляде" корейцы победили?
  • Vladimir 1964
    Vladimir 1964 10 October 2015 12: 05 New
    +5
    In the final of the Indian tender for the supply of one hundred self-propelled guns Russian SAU 2C19 "Msta-S" bypassed the installation of K9 manufactured by Samsung Techwin, reports Lenta.ru.


    Of all the competitors in this tender, only the Koreans put up a really new, not modernized, artillery system, but how do the Koreans know how to do it, colleagues, not by hearsay, so I don’t see anything strange in the results of the tender.

    Something like this. hi
  • alone
    alone 10 October 2015 12: 09 New
    +2
    The K9 is a really strong self-propelled gun. So, no wonder.
    1. Vladimir 1964
      Vladimir 1964 10 October 2015 12: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: lonely
      The K9 is a really strong self-propelled gun. So, no wonder.


      So it is, and the level of technology there is considered the highest for artillery systems, and absolutely all experts admit this.

      Type agreed and slightly supplemented, Dear Omar Khayyam. hi
      1. alone
        alone 10 October 2015 12: 53 New
        +1
        Quote: Vladimir 1964
        Ipa agreed and slightly supplemented, Dear Omar Khayyam.



        Addition to the place))) hi
  • sergant1.1
    sergant1.1 10 October 2015 12: 11 New
    0
    not a fact. a tender is not always the best product. and if a Korean product is actually better in terms of the parameters indicated, then it is likely inferior in some other way. There is a flip side to the coin.
    1. Vladimir 1964
      Vladimir 1964 10 October 2015 12: 16 New
      +4
      Quote: sergant1.1
      not a fact. a tender is not always the best product. and if a Korean product is actually better in terms of the parameters indicated, then it is likely inferior in some other way. There is a flip side to the coin.


      Уважаемый Сергей, если конечно исходить с подобной точки зрения, то да, и у "Арматы" есть недостатки - она не плавает.

      Type I jerk. hi
    2. kil 31
      kil 31 10 October 2015 12: 26 New
      +1
      Ну всё "самсунг" до выёживался, у меня в одной из комнат телевизор "самсунг" стоит не буду смотреть. am Let Roscosmos support me and take the rocket from them. laughing
    3. 2s1122
      2s1122 10 October 2015 13: 36 New
      +1
      Ага САУ корейская-прошивка китайская,был" Samsung "стал"ZTE" bully
  • traveler
    traveler 10 October 2015 12: 16 New
    +2
    Turks have been producing this self-propelled gun under license for a long time, now the Indians will buy more. samsung brooms do not knit good
  • CRASH
    CRASH 10 October 2015 12: 26 New
    -17
    Как так же, ура патриоты? Наши же МСТЫ "зе бэст ин зе ворлд", а если "Коалиция" провалится, то у ура патриотов разрыв шаблона будет laughing Смешно читать "Это мутный тендер" "Корейцы приплатили" laughing
    1. Altona
      Altona 10 October 2015 12: 30 New
      +3
      Quote: CRASH.
      Как так же, ура патриоты? Наши же МСТЫ "зе бэст ин зе ворлд", а если "Коалиция" провалится, то у ура патриотов разрыв шаблона будет

      ----------------------
      Да не будет...Закупка хай-тек вооружений тоже не всегда благо, Ирак, например, на дух не хочет американских "the best weapon", сложно, дорого в обслуживании, недолго живёт в песке...
    2. skifd
      skifd 10 October 2015 12: 52 New
      +6
      CRASH RU Today, 12: 26

      Как так же, ура патриоты? Наши же МСТЫ "зе бэст ин зе ворлд", а если "Коалиция" провалится, то у ура патриотов разрыв шаблона будет laughing Смешно читать "Это мутный тендер" "Корейцы приплатили" laughing



      And I was waiting for the poison to pour ... wassat From bile heartburn does not torment?
    3. tupolev-95
      tupolev-95 10 October 2015 15: 37 New
      +1
      Нет ничего удивительного в том, что САУ 21-го века превзошла САУ конца 20-го. А Ваше - если "Коалиция" провалиться - из той же серии, что и "мутный тендер"."Мста" в свое время не провалилась и "Коалиция" не подкачает.
  • RUSIVAN
    RUSIVAN 10 October 2015 12: 35 New
    0
    Self-propelled gun "Msta-S" at an Indian tender bypassed the Korean K9 Thunder.
    It may of course have surpassed in many respects, but our equipment is developed for practicality, which is connected with the conditions in which this equipment is used, yes, Msta-equipment is not new, but how would K 9 have shown itself, for example, in severe climatic conditions, from winter frosts to the sizzling heat, from high humidity to sand dust of deserts.
  • wild
    wild 10 October 2015 12: 41 New
    +2
    At one time, Hitler produced so many diverse techniques that endless strings of storage depots and so on stretched to the battlefield. sometimes monotony is better than a hodgepodge.
    1. igorka357
      igorka357 11 October 2015 20: 07 New
      0
      What does your attack have to do with it, maybe then there is no need to develop anything new? So we can work with mosquitoes then, we probably have their ship in warehouses, and they are all the same!
  • sabakina
    sabakina 10 October 2015 12: 46 New
    10
    I think Msta-S will take revenge. Syria will show. And finally, Msta understands only Russian, well, one that is completely Russian ...
    1. alone
      alone 10 October 2015 12: 56 New
      +3
      Quote: sabakina
      I think Msta-S will take revenge. Syria will show. And finally, Msta understands only Russian, well, one that is completely Russian ...

      laughing Well, you have turned down. Recently, at our large-scale exercises, our proved that the MSTA understands not Russian, but also Azerbaijani)))
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 10 October 2015 18: 25 New
        +1
        Russian is not literary, it is understandable in Africa ...
    2. Altona
      Altona 10 October 2015 12: 57 New
      +4
      Quote: sabakina
      I think Msta-S will take revenge. Syria will show. And finally, Msta understands only Russian, well, one that is completely Russian ...

      ----------------------
      As Rostislav Ishchenko recently wrote in his article, I quote approximately, the source is lower ... In Syria, ISIS is bombing the same number and model lineup of air groupings that performed in Ukraine last year — these are Su-24 and Su-25 ... Only in Ukraine, former miners and hairdressers quickly drove away aviation with brooms, and in Syria, Russian aviation successfully hacked ISIS infrastructure, acting as part of a complex of ground and space services ... So look at the capabilities of not new weapons when used correctly ...

      http://ria.ru/analytics/20151008/1298905105.html
      1. alone
        alone 10 October 2015 13: 17 New
        -4
        Quote: Altona
        only in Ukraine aviation was quickly driven away by brooms by former miners and hairdressers,


        Forgot to add metallurgists. Still believe in fairy tales?))))
        1. Anatole
          Anatole 10 October 2015 13: 41 New
          +3
          There is no difference in a peaceful profession if you are in reserve.
          1. alone
            alone 10 October 2015 13: 50 New
            -1
            Quote: Anatole
            There is no difference in a peaceful profession if you are in reserve.


            In Ukraine, the army was ruined, within 23 years it was practically destroyed. Statistically, miners are 40 years old. And what stock can we talk about in Ukraine, especially in air defense. Do you understand what an air defense system is? You think it is so easy, took it after 10 years, got on the control panel and immediately started acting? The fact that they shot down, shot down is not a matter of dispute. But the miners have nothing to do with it.

            Specialists acted. Here I readily believe. Open YouTube and look at the militia in April-May 2014. Look at those who took the Slavic City Council, the city department. See how they hold small arms. Miners cannot handle them that way. Only professionals hold such arms.
            1. Captain nemo
              Captain nemo 10 October 2015 15: 04 New
              +2
              Quote: lonely
              Acted specialists

              Очень многих кто сбивал мы наверно не узнаем, но помню как в Славянске был сбит вертолёт с генералом и прочими "честно принявшими присягу народу украины". ВСУ выдвинуло спецназ убили того кто стрелял из ПЗРК, им был 23 летний паренёк, или что то около того, таким образом 23-18=5 18 лет "развала" ВСУ на нём не сказались, и более того за остальные пять лет, он что то и приобрёл. Разумеется вертолёт не был оборудован защитой от ПЗРК, и его мог подбить не обязательно профи, но это уже другая история.
              1. sabakina
                sabakina 10 October 2015 18: 31 New
                +2
                Есть такие, кто из двухстволки застрелится не сможет, а есть такие, кто и из "Коалиции" сможет пульнуть...
                Р.С. это я о "левшах"...
            2. igorka357
              igorka357 11 October 2015 20: 13 New
              0
              I am absolutely 100% sure ... to separate the shooters with MANPADS with two fingers about ... asphalt, the MANPADS itself in the past, and not only hi
      2. sabakina
        sabakina 10 October 2015 18: 27 New
        +1
        They asked themselves, they answered ... And what am I? I’m sitting, fixing the primus ...
  • ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 10 October 2015 12: 52 New
    0
    А что насчет "Коалиции"?
  • Maxom75
    Maxom75 10 October 2015 12: 59 New
    +7
    Hindus create such a hodgepodge by type of weapon that it becomes scary how to repair and keep everything afloat in the event of a real conflict. It takes a bunch of specialists for different types of equipment, built to different standards and everything needs to be combined on the battlefield. Difficult task.
    1. Anatole
      Anatole 10 October 2015 13: 43 New
      +1
      For their large country, the main thing is the accumulation of technology.
  • silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 10 October 2015 13: 02 New
    +2
    You can have a different attitude to this result ... for example - GOOD CHALLENGE TO OUR TECHNIQUE ... WE NEED TO LEARN DETAILS AND MAKE THE RIGHT CONCLUSIONS TO IMPROVE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF ARTSYSTEMS ... and calmly continue to work))
  • Hauptam
    Hauptam 10 October 2015 13: 06 New
    +2
    Different levels of technology Msta comes from the 80s and T9 from 00. The Coalition would be pulled over.
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 10 October 2015 16: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: Hauptam
      The Coalition would be pulled over.

      It would be nice. And what do we know how the Coalition really works?
  • Boricello
    Boricello 10 October 2015 13: 06 New
    +4
    Well, to be objective, the Korean self-propelled gun is really better than the MSTA. But keep in mind that the MSTA is a development of 80 years. And she almost competed on equal terms with the latest self-propelled guns. There is reason for pride. The coalition indisputably devotes to koreyoz.
  • Boricello
    Boricello 10 October 2015 13: 12 New
    0
    Quote: Altona
    As Rostislav Ishchenko recently wrote in his article, I quote approximately, the source is lower ... In Syria, ISIS is bombing the same number and model range of air group that performed in Ukraine last year, these are Su-24 and Su-25 ..

    Ishchenko writes nonsense even though the general. In Hohland, aircraft remained at the level of 80 years. Neither electronic warfare nor new sights and navigation systems. This is to compare toyot equal to 1 year of release and the latest of them. The name is the same and the essence is completely different.
    1. Captain nemo
      Captain nemo 10 October 2015 15: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: Boricello
      In Hohland, aircraft remained at the level of 80 years. Neither electronic warfare nor new sights and navigation systems.

      Apsalyutna agrees with you, there are only cowards living around Ukraine, traitors and thieves who put something newer than 24 reptiles on their SU-25, SU-80.
  • Tra-ta-ta
    Tra-ta-ta 10 October 2015 13: 12 New
    +1
    Cost the future contract valued at $ 800 million
    Past tenders have been canceled for various reasons ...

    No one here would refuse to attend this contest ..! But it is possible that even this time the Indians made a free show for themselves ...
  • Fedor Bolts
    Fedor Bolts 10 October 2015 13: 14 New
    +5
    Yes, enough to think that the LA-7 can still be sold (against nothing, an excellent fighter of its time). But the backlog of the 80s ends, and young designers brought up on idiotic light construction in five years will drive the country into barbarians. And for engineering specialties (on the defensive side) education should generally be done free of charge
  • VadimSt
    VadimSt 10 October 2015 13: 27 New
    +1
    Может корейский и лучше, и презентабельней. На выставке всегда все краше и моднее! А что с ним делать в "поле" и после него, пока никто не знает.
    Once upon a time, with a brother in law in the capital. I bought a gift for my son, a mechanically controlled tank through a cable, he took a more fashionable car, with a remote control, on batteries. My rumpled, sometimes rusty and moving only forward gift grandchildren also played, and my nephew sent his gift to the scrap two months later!
    AK, also adopted in the distant 1949, and until then in honor and respect!
  • F.Vastag
    F.Vastag 10 October 2015 13: 28 New
    +4
    Та же самая Хр..ь (Кипеж и Обсуждение) Здесь на Форуме были когда у Укров (под Мариуполем) заметили Танк - сильно смахивающий на Южно-корейский (мол как опытный образец американцы через Южнокорейцев передали один танк Киеву - для боевого применения). К9 - реально Нигде и Никогда не использовалась - и как она поведет себя в Реальном бою - тоже неизвестно. Поэтому я За Нашу Модернизированную Проверенную "МСТА" и новую "Коалицию." А Индусы закупили столько абсолютно разной (по ТТХ и тд) военной техники (из разных стран) - что они потом замучаются ее Обслуживать (Ремонт, Эксплуатация и тд). Как тут правильно заметили - иногда Однообразии (в выборе того или иного вида Оружия) - Лучше, чем Броуновское Разнообразии (когда всего много - все разное - и подход к соответствующей технике - Абсолютно Разный)
  • FANTOM-72
    FANTOM-72 10 October 2015 14: 03 New
    +3
    Quote: yushch
    Msta has been fighting for several years

    Not the first decade, for a second.
  • Pacifist
    Pacifist 10 October 2015 14: 12 New
    +1
    K9 was developed almost 10 years later. So the result is not surprising. But you need to pull yourself up. It would be interesting to compare the most extreme modifications. For example, K9 and the Coalition.
  • Strashila
    Strashila 10 October 2015 14: 17 New
    +3
    "The Korean self-propelled gun surpassed the Russian one in the final part of the selection in speed, operational mobility, combat rate of fire and accuracy of shooting" ... the training ground is not a war.
    They exploit a year and howl ... Korean, not ours designed for dirt and a sledgehammer, that is, for military operating conditions. And as the Indians showed life by themselves, those other users of technology ... instructions for the full drum.
    German G36 rifles were also good at blockbusters, shmaly, I don’t want to ... only the war showed that this was bullshit.
  • rusakov89
    rusakov89 10 October 2015 14: 36 New
    +4
    Hindus, as always, are cunning and can be understood, now they need production technologies and in the future acquire their own development.
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 10 October 2015 16: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: rusakov89
      Hindus, as always, are cunning and can be understood, now they need production technologies and in the future acquire their own development.

      Это как раз таки не "хитрожопость", а очень умный подход!
  • mich
    mich 10 October 2015 15: 14 New
    +2
    I don’t remember something delivering ultramodern Korean equipment to Iraq, they took proven and reliable weapons from Russia.
  • Ronino
    Ronino 10 October 2015 15: 18 New
    +3
    I think the Koreans also well spread the Indians ...
  • Coboklo
    Coboklo 10 October 2015 15: 51 New
    +1
    The British have infected over centuries of colonization.
    They will never be our sincere allies.
    A self-propelled gun is only a business, nothing personal.
  • Sukhoi
    Sukhoi 10 October 2015 16: 22 New
    +2
    A very strange decision. And they could well save time and money by producing Mstu on the basis of their own T-72 or T-90.
  • Ze Kot
    Ze Kot 10 October 2015 18: 34 New
    0
    А когда то слова "корейский автомобиль, корейская электроника" улыбку вызывали ... А теперь электроника, военная техника, судостроение...
    1. Strashila
      Strashila 10 October 2015 18: 45 New
      +1
      And all these achievements began after meeting with Russian realities ... and before that they had caused not only a smile, but were common names.
  • polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 10 October 2015 18: 41 New
    0
    Why so upset, finalize, modernize and go ahead. Hindus just podzalelsya.
  • Strashila
    Strashila 10 October 2015 18: 56 New
    +2
    "The Korean self-propelled gun surpassed the Russian one in the final part of the selection in speed, operational mobility, combat rate of fire and accuracy of shooting" ... in fact, war is an economy.
    SkokA is worth hitting a target from Russian weapons, and SkokA from Korean.
    Let the numbers sound ... and understand it’s not necessary to hammer nails with a microscope, but more aesthetically, more prestigious, more innovative ... but very, very expensive.
  • Izotovp
    Izotovp 10 October 2015 19: 18 New
    +1
    I think something new will be based on Almaty, you have to wait a bit.
    It is interesting how the ultramodern Korean Daewoo K11 rifles showed themselves in Afghanistan, it seems that there were problems.
    1. IAlex
      IAlex 10 October 2015 19: 26 New
      0
      Daewoo already 10 years ago went bankrupt and liquidated ...
    2. IAlex
      IAlex 10 October 2015 19: 26 New
      0
      Daewoo already 10 years ago went bankrupt and liquidated ...
  • IAlex
    IAlex 10 October 2015 19: 25 New
    0
    Well, for the success of the Koreans, you can rejoice, such progress and the Asian tiger ...
  • Mentat
    Mentat 10 October 2015 19: 39 New
    0
    Quote: Igor39
    I have a Samsung washing machine, everything plows and plows, I don’t think self-propelled guns are worse, but do we have a washing machine? winked

    How does one relate to the other? Now let's talk about nail files where they are, which means there are self-propelled guns of incredible characteristics.
  • k_ply
    k_ply 10 October 2015 20: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: IAlex
    Daewoo already 10 years ago went bankrupt and liquidated ...

    Catalog of weapons products of the company that changed its name:
    http://www.sntmotiv.com/eng/business/data/defence_catalog.pdf
    (off.site: http://www.sntmotiv.com/eng/main/main.html)
  • Comrade Artem
    Comrade Artem 10 October 2015 21: 51 New
    0
    Does this sau probably have Wi-Fi and a remote control? and LCD 3D screen?
  • k_ply
    k_ply 10 October 2015 23: 26 New
    +1
    Quote: igorka357
    ... 2S19 yes shot, but not 2S19M2!

    Obviously, the 155 mm self-propelled guns with a barrel length of 52 caliber (155 / L52 - NATO standard) participated in the competitive tests, if you do not invent it, then the 2C19M1-155 howitzer took part on our part, the artillery system 2C19M2 has a 152 / Russian-caliber gun 47.
    Quote: Basarev
    But for us this is a sign: we should nevertheless replace the self-propelled guns of the outdated generation with the Coalition. No exceptions.

    American, British, French, German, Israeli and Slovak artillery systems also dropped out of the competition.

    And why did the experts of Mstu immediately disregard, even neglect modernization, extradite and lay the Coalition ?!
    Hindus plan to replace new howitzers with a total of 110 122-mm self-propelled guns of type 2C1 Gvozdika.
    In total, in the coming 10 years, the Indian Ministry of Defense intends to acquire 814 artillery systems worth about $ 2,4 billion.

    - Here, including self-propelled tracked and wheeled (180), as well as towed artillery systems, self-propelled (155 / L45 - modernization of the Swedish FH-77B (155 / L39), and already purchased 149 155-mm light howitzers M777 (155 / 39).
    http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/dhanush-155mm-artillery-gun-a-make-in-in
    dia-marvel /
    http://swarajyamag.com/politics/finally-army-to-get-its-dhanush/
  • k_ply
    k_ply 11 October 2015 10: 03 New
    +1
    According to media reports, "the Korean self-propelled gun surpassed the Russian one in the final part of the selection in terms of speed, operational mobility, combat rate of fire and accuracy of fire."

    Можно конечно "гнать" об якобы устаревших снарядах, но при одинаковом у всех САУ калибре 155/52.
    We need perfect inertial and satellite navigation and topographic and geodetic reference systems, which directly affect the accuracy of shooting, autonomy and rate of fire, including Speaking of mobility, we need a more powerful engine, speaking of and rate of fire, then a lot depends on the coherence of the crew (calculation), the difference in 1, maybe 2 shots is insignificant as well as random, especially in the conditions of proving ground tests.
  • Raider
    Raider 11 October 2015 23: 41 New
    0
    Понятно, наше, обидно. Давайте без "шапкозакидательства". Это проигрыш, если не оружейников, то продавцов. Значит корейцы свои минусы смогли скрыть, а мы нет. Выигрывает сильнейшей. Хотелось конечно стоимость сравнить этих систем. В любом случае это звонок - прогресс не стоит на месте, надо работать и оружейникам и пиарщикам, учиться у победителей нет ничего зазорного, чтобы стать лучше их. ИМХО. Удачи всем!!