Mi-28HM will receive a new design solution in terms of rotor

Andrei Shibitov, deputy general director of the Russian Helicopters holding, said that the new technology developed by the company’s specialists would significantly increase the speed of the newest Russian Mi-28HM attack helicopter.

“Within the framework of the“ speed ”program, we have developed a new technology and a new design solution in terms of the rotor, which gives a significant increase in speed. We can apply the scientific and technical background obtained in the course of the implementation of this program on the Mi-28НМ, ”the website quotes him. Rostec.

The deputy general director also said that the main test phase should be completed in the 2016 year, at the moment the machine is checked according to the schedule.

The Mi-28HM will have several significant differences from the prototype - the Mi-28H "Night Hunter". Earlier, Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov reported that the Mi-28HM is an all-weather helicopter that operates at any time of the day. It will be equipped with a practically new navigation complex, a new optics, a reconnaissance complex and a control system that allows for a “blind” landing.

The export version of the Mi-28H "Night Hunter" - the Mi-28НЭ was presented during the exhibition "Innovation Day of the Ministry of Defense", which was held in Rostov-on-Don.

Comments

[hartlend]

By the way.

[Yuri from Volgograd]

Quote: hartlend

By the way.

What was wrong?
Increased performance characteristics and it's great. Normal process.
Not the first time and not the last.
The main thing is that we would have had stable orders from outside countries.
And so the Mi-24 is in demand in various reincarnations.

[monk10]

Not certainly in that way. The main thing is to implement this technology in civilian helicopters. It is necessary not only to increase competition in military technologies, but also to tighten the citizen. Here the market is much more extensive.

[Ruslan]

I’m interested in this. I always read that to reduce thermal visibility, the exhaust of helicopter engines was directed upward so that the blades would mix it with the surrounding air. Why is the Mi-28 exhaust going down? isn't that bad? doesn't make it more noticeable?

[Falcon]

Quote: ruslan

I’m interested in this. I always read that to reduce thermal visibility, the exhaust of helicopter engines was directed up

This is where such a system? Offhand did not remember more than one such helicopter, can you give examples?

The exhaust temperature of the TV3-117 is near 1200 K. The VK-2500 is the same engine, only slightly modernized. Those. the temperature is a little higher.

How to direct such a smelter to the blades?

[gridasov]

This is all self-deception or outright lies or a banal misunderstanding of the essence of the issue. It is possible to "dissipate" the outgoing heat of the exhaust stream only at the level of those devices that perceive this effect. Ie this is ping-pong. Only so called. "cold engines" are able to solve these issues in combination with others.

[Ruslan]

Here about such systems I spoke. and be more restrained. If you don’t know about screen exhaust devices, why run into this? some of them direct the exhaust towards the blades in order to further reduce the level of thermal radiation.

[WUA 518]

Quote: ruslan

screen exhaust devices

Against modern GOS, ineffective. Cons: weight loss, reduced power, increased fuel consumption.

[Skifotavr]

Not all militants have acquired modern MANPADS so far. And the use of an EVE in combination with other measures (such as the use of thermal traps or a laser interference system) can sometimes save from a modern rocket. There are different cases.

[Ruslan]

In addition, these firms have created a passive tool to reduce the thermal radiation of Mi-8 and Mi-24 helicopters with TV3-117 engines. It is a screen-exhaust device (AP-1V) installed at the exhaust gas of the helicopter engine. The desired effect is achieved by directing the exhaust gases of the engine with this device towards the rotary rotor of the helicopter, where they are mixed with the surrounding air. As a result, the temperature of the exhaust gases drops sharply and the total infrared radiation of the helicopter itself decreases.

[Ruslan]

also look at the tiger and merlin of the Eurocopter. also exhaust up.

[gridasov]

This is a normal solution. The lifting force is created by the blades directing the flow downward and the kinetic energy of the flow directly depends on the moment of its rotation, and then the exhaust suddenly destroys it. Somehow you need to be more respectful of the air environment, and especially its dynamic states.

[Good me]

Quote: gridasov

This is a normal solution. The lifting force is created by the blades directing the flow downward and the kinetic energy of the flow directly depends on the moment of its rotation, and then the exhaust suddenly destroys it. Somehow you need to be more respectful of the air environment, and especially its dynamic states.

Here, apparently, His Majesty the Compromise appears on the scene ...

[Basarev]

And all would be fine, but they write that the Mi-28 in the finale of the restructuring of the test blew clean, and the Ka-50 became the champion. And now this loser helicopter is pushed as the main one, and the Ka-50 is destroyed. The Ka-52 is a completely different helicopter, much more conservative - there are two pilots and there is no bunch of reconnaissance drones B-60, which allowed to disown the co-pilot in the Ka-50. And at the moment, the main one is the terribly ancient Mi-24.

[A1L9E4K9S]

Progress does not stand still.

[wandlitz]

Faster, higher, further ...

[tormazok]

But I’m interested in why they aren’t visible in Syria.

[Garris199]

And I'm interested too. Even more.

[Arikkhab]

Maybe they just don’t advertise?

[alex56]

Where's the over-the-body radar?
Upgrading and improving performance is, of course, very good. But the solution to the problem with this radar is still not found (((
If my memory serves me, then they promise for more than a year, but there is no result, no more ((Not so much of an important body kit is in service with the Russian army ((

[Falcon]

Quote: alex56

Where's the over-the-body radar?

Well, if it’s not said about her, it does not mean that she will not be!

If you are looking at the photo, then this is not MI-28Н but ordinary MI-28Н.

Anyway, it has already been installed in series on Iraqi cars.

And the option for our videoconferencing while undergoing state tests.

[Hagalaz]

The existing radar is problematic. Therefore, they do not pose in bulk.

[Engineer]

Honestly, as a specialist in this field, it is a little unclear to me how, with the same engine power, with the same gearbox, with the same rotor speed, it was possible to obtain a "significant increase in speed"? Immediately as with the wing: reduced the thickness of the profile - worsened the quality. There are only a few percent, but not essential. Non-retractable chassis give a big loss of speed. True, they are designed for strong shock absorption during an emergency landing, therefore they do not touch it.

[dauria]

also surprised at first. Well, if not "with the same rotor speed"? After all, the main obstacle to speed is the return flow zone.
If you reduced the diameter, changed the L / B and the profile? Or just increased strength? In TV-3-117, the speed of a free turbine and power are not rigidly connected, they could aerodynamically "lighten" the propeller and raise the speed without even changing the main gearbox.
This, after all, is probably not about an increase of 50 km / h, but a smaller one.

[Falcon]

Quote: dauria

increase speed without even changing the main gear

And get a stall, since the angular velocity will exceed the sound ...

Gearboxes are also made to reduce the speed of rotation of the screw. Raising it is the least of the problems.

Rather, it is the aerodynamic twist of the blades, and the profile is variable ...

[gridasov]

The configuration of this shape of the blade creates new questions and problems. Namely ! Since at different speeds of rotation some part of the blade is in the laminar level of the flow energy, and ionization processes also form a potential difference in the corresponding length segment of this blade. But an increase in speed changes this distance, and the blade remains monolithic and does not change its length. Therefore, the flow entering the curved part of the blade forms magnetic force interactions already with the stream in a turbulent energy state and since, according to Poincare, the potential difference and its increasing parameters along the length of the blade leads to an increase in the moment of rotation of this blade or SPIN, the blade can break in an obvious place. If I'm wrong, then the tests will show themselves. The blade must either be saber-shaped, or the whole straight. BUT!!! All this does not solve the whole problem of an ineffective general solution.

[gridasov]

Absolutely right. It is generally impossible to obtain a cardinal effect on such a principle, when the air flow moves radially in contact with the blade and "sticking" to it according to the Coanda effect, and the profile of the blade itself tends to give it a forward direction vector due to the profile shape of the wing. Complete disagreement of the process algorithms. Therefore, the "noise" from the rotation of the blades. Therefore, the inability to spin the blades to a higher speed - they just come off. Centrifugal processes are developing not only in an increasing order. and according to the increasing energy of the process, which is associated with the flow of air or water. This means that the laminar levels turn into turbulent ones and up to the level of breakdown at the tips on Wednesday. But!!! No one sees this or does not want to see it, and therefore there is simply no prospect, with such blade designs and, in general, algorithms for organizing the flow. In this case, all, so to speak, positive extrema, can be combined in a completely new type of device - just as simple, but radically more highly effective in order to increase the rotation speed without fear of destruction, and at the same time use the energy of the flow.

[soldatt22]

Have you decided to measure your pussy? Scientists damn it! Che do not suggest how to make a blade.?

[gridasov]

Have you ever tried to offer? You can’t get to them, and this is very important in the format of priorities. In other words, these are very important decisions.

[Falcon]

Quote: soldatt22

Have you decided to measure your pussy? Scientists damn it! Che do not suggest how to make a blade.?

Like this

or so, the truth is it's just a layout

Not the blades, but the design change fundamentally.

[gridasov]

What changes a lot? In addition, a previously unrevealed effect appears. The polarization of the blades in the area of ​​the "tips" is very strong, especially in high humidity environments. Therefore, they may stick. Just not the areas of these tips. and their middle. The answers are elementary. the velocity of the blade at the axial part is "near-zero", and at the ends it is maximum. This creates EMF. And the current moving in one direction attracts the conductors. But! It attracts not along the entire length of the conductor, but in a known area. Therefore, having fallen into perfectly defined environmental conditions, the blades "stick together" at high speeds.

[Falcon]

Quote: gridasov

What changes a lot? In addition, a previously unrevealed effect appears. The polarization of the blades in the area of ​​the "tips" is very strong, especially in high humidity environments. Therefore, they may stick. Just not the areas of these tips. and their middle. The answers are elementary. the velocity of the blade at the axial part is "near-zero", and at the ends it is maximum. This creates EMF. And the current moving in one direction attracts the conductors. But! It attracts not along the entire length of the conductor, but in a known area. Therefore, having fallen into perfectly defined environmental conditions, the blades "stick together" at high speeds.

he’s taking, but what does it have to do with it? How does this relate to the pushing screw?

[gridasov]

The desire to increase the flight speed of a helicopter directly depends on the speed of rotation of the blades. But the increase in the speed of rotation of the blades causes the activation of the processes that I have described for the rotationally rotating blades. Therefore, whatever one may say, from the technical solution that was proposed in the century before last, one cannot fly at the level of the requirements of the time of the 21st century.
In order to be able to think, you need to learn to think. Highly dynamic processes, and this is precisely the level to which we strive, is always complex processes. As part of these complexes, each process develops independently and in all groups of interactions. Therefore, such highly dynamic and capacitive physical processes must be analyzed based on the number function expressed by their constant value. Therefore, unfortunately, we say and see the same processes in different ways.

[Anatole]

Soooo, with all the positive extremums, the topic of the device is not disclosed

Quote: gridasov

You can combine in a completely new type of device - the same simple, but radically more highly effective in order to increase rotation speeds without fear of destruction, and at the same time use the energy of the flow.

Will there be a sequel, or does the company keep secrets?

[gridasov]

Firstly, already by what I have said, one can see the direction of reasoning. And this is already important in the direction of radically new research. Secondly, nobody has canceled industrial espionage. And thirdly, there is a framework of ethics that does not allow you to form an opinion about yourself that you are smarter or the like. Therefore, we are talking about the discovery in the form of building new algorithms for creating and managing physical processes. We are talking about a new device that can replace all existing devices in the form of screws, propellers, impellers and, accordingly, the base units of all turbines. Just and only

[Anatole]

A.1 My curiosity caught the surge in a maneuver for the direction of reasoning.
A.2 I won’t tell anyone, word of mouth (joke)
A.3. To ethical ethics when it comes to at least REVOLUTION

Quote: gridasov

We are talking about a new device that can replace all existing devices in the form of screws, propellers, impellers and, accordingly, the base units of all turbines. Just and only

. respectfully

[gridasov]

There is an ancient Chinese wisdom that says that "happy is the one who is able to translate into reality what he has learned" Somewhere I came close to this.

[GSH-18]

To Syria for a run-in!

[Bayonet]

Normal process. While the machine is being produced, there is a constant improvement in performance, increasing reliability.

[Barakuda]

For example, on MI-26, a set of screws (if anything) changes at once and that's it. And only one enterprise produces. There are still no analogues in the world, even for the equipment of the "plant". I looked at how they make these screws - AHRENEL is simple.
So FIG knows what they planned there, I'm not special .. Well done, however!

[soldatt22]

And I thought at all - they change the kit.

[Mozart]

I hope that the crew commander was further secured by this modernization. As far as I understand, two losses are both from the rotor during a hard landing.

[Corsair0304]

It's time.
If the "night hunter" starts flying even faster, why not?
And so - I agree with the members of the forum that this solution within the "speed" project is a normal further development. As they say: a trifle, but nice))

[CRONOS]

And I already thought that they made friends with a helicopter of the millimeter range with a helicopter and added Hermes-A to this bunch ... And they only added speed. =))

[max702]

Quote: CRONOS

And they only added speed. =))

PROMISED to add ... Trials are just planning to start ..

[Zaurbek]

The increase in speed in helicopters is a difficult feasible solution. It is also not entirely clear to me how this is achieved. For example, in the 30s, on monoplanes, they switched to cleaning the chassis during flight and only this gave a speed increase of 50km / h. So it’s easier to believe in the increased speed of the Mi24, with improvements than the 28th. From what they said, change the blades and modify the gearbox. If they added a pushing screw, it would be better believed.

[Garris199]

The screws are cool, but what is the use of this helicopter, if our men are still fighting on the Mi-24? What kind of war are we building them for?

[Maxom75]

All changes will be visible only during testing, and this is only the calculated value not confirmed by practice. We work slowly, slowly, but sorry.

[Scooter_gto]

I wonder why they are not in Syria?

[max702]

Quote: Scooter_gto

I wonder why they are not in Syria?

There is no "night" radar, and without it, 24 and 28 are all the same, there is not much difference in combat effectiveness ..

[vlad7777kul]

Does this technology apply to all Mil helicopters or only to MI-28?

[Sochi]

I wonder what solution was found by screw? there seems to be a dead end for many years.

[Mountain shooter]

An increase in helicopter speed can only be obtained by SLOWING the speed of rotation of the propeller, which is possible with an increase in its efficiency. Perhaps technologists allowed to make more complex profiles, and one after another ...
For single-rotor helicopters, the limitation is more significant than for coaxial helicopters, since they still have an overturning moment (the lifting force of the blades going "downstream" is no longer compensated by the angle of attack of the blade, and the helicopter capsizes around the longitudinal axis).

[gridasov]

Maybe I'm wrong! But the atmospheric or air medium is elastic, which means that with increasing linear speed the resistance of this elastic medium increases. So to overcome the resistance, you need to increase the power of the engines transmitting the function to the propeller blades. Reducing the speed of rotation of the blade will not fly faster! Therefore, we are talking about the method and method of using the elasticity properties of the flight medium. This is done by the simplest methods, which means that this completely unnecessary proportionality is removed when an increase in speed entails energy costs for movement.

[abc_alex]

Well, as far as I know, ours are working towards a supporting elongated Vit. Something like this:

[Ruslan]

do they work? that's what bothers me. How is the project financed and is it under the cloth? I hope that they will not give up work on them.

[Zaurbek]

The chassis must be retracted in flight. Increasing speed without this is not possible.