Military Review

The killer of aircraft carriers: The tragic story of "hundreds" T-4

35
Throughout the postwar stories The USSR continually tried to find a cheap "antidote" to fight the kings of the oceans - American atomic aircraft carriers. Soviet "asymmetrical" solutions included either submarines with ultra-high-speed missile torpedoes or cruise missiles, or atomic missile cruisers with hypersonic anti-ship missiles, or supersonic bombers with intelligent missiles.


By the end of the 1950s, it became clear that the USSR could not adequately confront the United States in any strategic way. aviationnor in the field of naval fleet. In part, this could be offset by the deployment of intercontinental ballistic missiles, which, in fact, the Soviet Union did. However, around the same time, the first atomic submarine missile carriers capable of hitting targets at ranges of up to 2200 km began to enter the US arsenal. The USSR was not able to effectively deal with them - American aircraft carriers covered the places for patrolling submarines from above. The Soviet Navy could not penetrate the defense of an aircraft carrier formation neither from air, nor from water, nor from under water. The only way to destroy an American aircraft carrier was to use a super-high-speed rocket with a special warhead, in other words, a nuclear charge. Only here the ballistic missile could not get into the aircraft carrier - the target did not stand still. Existing planes, ships and submarines were not capable not only of approaching the distance of the shot, but even of detecting the target.

The killer of aircraft carriers: The tragic story of "hundreds" T-4


The most realistic way of dealing with aircraft carriers to the Soviet command was the creation of an aviation strike complex. It was supposed to consist of an ultra-high-speed aircraft that could detect a aircraft carrier connection in a given area, and a hypersonic rocket capable of exceeding the speed of sound 4 – 5 times the speed of sound, penetrating a powerful aircraft carrier system and hitting it with a nuclear charge.



The maximum range of destruction of sea anti-aircraft missile systems of that time was 160 km, height - 30 km, and the speed of the targeted target - 775 m / s. This meant that the planes were available to strike at altitudes up to 25 km and speeds up to 2650 km / h.



None of the supersonic strategic strike aircraft developed in the USSR at the end of the 1950s in the USSR fit these parameters. The Tupolev design bureau 135 and Myasishchev M-52 aircraft were made mainly of aluminum alloys and designed for maximum speeds of 2000 – 2500 km / h. True, the Myasishchev Design Bureau also developed another strategic bomber of titanium and alloyed steel alloys, M-56. The aircraft was able to withstand the kinetic heating of the skin to 3000С and reach speeds in excess of 3000 km / h. However, initially it was designed as a strategic bomber, designed for combat load in 9 t, and had an excessive take-off weight of about 230 t.

Weaving

The aircraft carrier hunter should have an take-off mass of about 100 t, a cruising flight speed of 3000 km / h and a ceiling of 24 km. When approaching the target of the aircraft at this speed and altitude, the radars of the Americans did not have time to send an anti-aircraft missile at it. Neither fighter-interceptors nor anti-aircraft missiles could hit a promising strike aircraft in the rear hemisphere.

The new aircraft should have a range of 6000 – 8000 km and carry at least two cruise missiles with a range of 400 – 600 km - this would allow it not to enter the zone of reach of air defense assets. The rocket itself was supposed to be a unique product - to reach a speed seven times higher than the speed of sound, to reach the target autonomously and attack it.

The State Committee for Aviation Engineering offered to participate in the competition for such an aircraft by the design bureau of Tupolev, Sukhoi and Yakovlev - they decided not to touch Mikoyan, since his bureau was overloaded with work on the future MiG-25. The implication was that the competition would win the "bomber" Tupolev design bureau, and the "exterminating" design bureau were attracted for the appearance of competition. Moreover, Tupolev had a “135 project” in development - all that remained was to increase his speed to the required 3000 km / h. Contrary to the expectation, the “exterminatory” design bureau enthusiastically took on a non-core topic. In the Sukhoi design bureau, the project was headed by Oleg Samoilovich. The layout was chosen according to the “duck” scheme with front horizontal tail and insulated engine nacelles, air intakes of which protruded beyond the front edge of the wing. According to the initial calculations, the take-off weight was equal to 102 t, whence the informal name of the project “product 100” or simply “weaving” came from.

Collapse of the patriarch

In July, 1961, the Scientific and Technical Council was held, which summarized the results of the competition. The first to report was the Tupolev Design Bureau. The “135 project” was completely destroyed: the plane was too heavy (the take-off mass of the 190 t) and did not pass on the speed indicators - the cruising speed of 2500 km / h instead of the required 3000 km / h. The system of protection of Tupolev was built in terms of economy of public funds: it is more profitable to build one type of universal, especially the already developed aircraft - the “135 product”. He could solve both strategic tasks, including nuclear strikes on the territory of the United States, as well as long-range naval aviation.

The second about his "project Yak-35" reported Alexander Yakovlev. The aircraft resembled the American B-58 Hustler and Myasishchevsky M-52, had a take-off weight of 84, the cruising speed of 3300 was km / h. At the end, Yakovlev attacked the patriarch of bomber aviation: “Andrei Nikolayevich suggests staying on aluminum. This means regression in aircraft technology. We do not do anything new, but we need to move forward and develop new materials - titanium, steel. The Tupolev Design Bureau simply slows down the progress of aviation! ”Tupolev jumped up and shouted:“ Boy, what do you understand in steel? I worked with steel planes when you went under the table! Do you want to ruin the country? ”Yakovlev said nothing.

Then Pavel Sukhoi presented his T-4 (“100”) aircraft project. The machine, like the Yak-35, met the requirements of the Air Force. The final conclusions decided to do after the next meeting of the Council in September 1961 of the year. Andrei Tupolev, on an emergency basis, gave the command to prepare the 125 aircraft for the competition, being developed to replace the Tu-22. But "125-ka" was originally created for other performance characteristics and speeds up to 2500 km / h. Tupolev did not have time to remake it under 3000 km / h. Therefore, at the second scientific and technical council, the “125 project” did not pass for exactly the same reasons that 135 was rejected. The winner was the project of Sukhoi. After some time, Peter Dementiev, Chairman of the State Commission on Aviation Engineering, came to the Sukhoi Design Bureau and directly asked Pavel Osipovich to abandon the project in favor of Tupolev and give him all the materials: “This topic belongs to Tupolev. “Sorry,” answered Sukhoi, “but I won the contest, not Andrei Nikolayevich. Therefore, I will not give up the topic. " After some time, Tupolev himself called Sukhoi: “Pasha, you can make good fighters, but the bombers do not. This topic is mine, give up. " "Just because I can make good fighters, I will make a good bomber," snapped
Dry. Such stubbornness did not add to the designer friends in the industry.


The only flight copy of the T-4, the 101, in 1975, was sent to eternal parking at the Air Force Museum in Monino. Fragments of the 102 aircraft were exhibited in the hangar of the Moscow Aviation Institute (MAI), but were subsequently cut into scrap metal. The same fate befell the partially assembled 103 aircraft

Engines

Such a unique aircraft required no less unique engines that could operate in conditions of unprecedented high temperatures, rarefied air, and unconventional fuel. Initially, three different types of engines were supposed to be installed on the T-4, but in the end they settled on one - РД36-41, the development of which was carried out by the Rybinsk OKB-36 (now NPO Saturn). The engine was a distant relative of the powerful, engineless Soviet 1950-s of the VD-7, which, in particular, equipped the 3M Myaschev bombers. The aircraft engine received a single-shaft 11-speed compressor, an afterburner and a two-stage air-cooled turbine of the first-stage blades, which made it possible to increase the gas temperature in front of the turbine to 950K. The creation of the RD36-41 took a total of about ten years, and at its base other, no less unique engines were created: RD36-51А stood on the passenger Tu-144D, RD36-51В - on the M-17 high-altitude scout M-36 “Stratosphere”, RD35-XNUMX was used in testing the Spiral orbital plane.

Missiles

No less important than the aircraft itself was its main armament - the X-33 hypersonic rocket, the development of which also began in the Sukhoi Design Bureau, but was later transferred to the Dubninsky branch of the OKB-155 (now Raduga ICD). The rocket had to go autonomously to the target along the aeroballistic trajectory at an altitude greater than 30 km at a speed that was 6,5 – 7 times the speed of sound. After reaching the target area, she herself found an aircraft carrier warrant, figured out the aircraft carrier in it and attacked it. It was an unprecedented task at that time - to carry it out, the X-33 installed its own radar station and an inertial navigation system, which included digital computers for the first time. The complexity of the rocket control system is not inferior to the aircraft.

Head over heels

A lot was new in the T-4 booth. For the first time in the country, an indicator of a navigation-tactical situation was developed for it, where on-screen radar data on the television screen was superimposed on an electronic image of microfilmed maps covering the surface of almost the entire globe.

When designing the aircraft, the designers constantly encountered a wide variety of problems that had never before been encountered. For example, in the layout of the aircraft that won the competition, the landing gear did not fit into the compartment intended for it. To get out of the situation, rather exotic solutions were offered - the air intakes were carried out on the “back”, and after entering the specified course, the plane had to turn the cabin down and so make the flight. When landing, the bomber had to roll over again to its original state.

No less fantastic was another solution, which found embodiment in the plane. With a fuselage diameter of just 2 m at a speed under 3000 km / h, the protruding lantern of the pilot's cockpit created tremendous resistance, and the designers decided to use a deflectable nose. When flying at an altitude of 22 – 24, there is no visibility as such, there is a black sky around, so the nose is raised and the flight takes place exclusively by instruments. When landing, it deviates downward and the pilot gets an excellent view through the opened windshield. This idea was met with hostility by the military, and only the enthusiasm and authority of the chief test pilot of Sukhoi Design Bureau Vladimir Ilyushin, the son of the legendary aircraft designer, allowed the Air Force to be convinced. Ilyushin also insisted on installing a periscope for a review ahead — in case of an accidental failure of the bow deflection mechanism. A similar solution subsequently found application in civilian Tu-144 and Concorde.



By the way, the fairing itself brought a lot of problems to the developers, and its creation was one of the most difficult tasks. It was supposed to be radio transparent (radar antennas were placed inside) and at the same time withstand huge strength and temperature (up to 4000C) loads. As a result, honeycomb material was developed on the basis of glass fillers impregnated with heat-resistant binder. The fairing itself was a five-layer design, in which the main load was carried by the middle layer with a thickness of just 1,5 mm. Outside the fairing was covered with thermal and weather resistant silicone coating.

In flight

In the spring of 1972, the first flight copy of the T-4 (the “101 product”) was ready for flight tests, but due to the summer fires of forests and peatlands around Moscow, thick smoke and visibility spread over the runway of LII
them. Gromova was almost zero. Therefore, the first flight took place only 22 August 1972 of the year. The plane was piloted by Hero of the Soviet Union Vladimir Ilyushin and navigator Nikolay Alferov. At the first stage, only nine flights were performed, with the first five being conducted with an uncleared chassis. The plane was controlled well, did not require increased attention from the pilot, the transition of the sound barrier was calm, and the moment of its overcoming was noted only by instruments. The military, who closely followed the tests of the aircraft, came to his delight and ordered the first batch of 1975 vehicles in the coming five-year period (1980 – 250 years)! For a car of this class is a record circulation.



The end of the "weave"

The Tushinsky Machine-Building Plant (TMZ), which built an experimental batch of seven aircraft for the Sukhoi Design Bureau, could not mass-produce them, especially in the quantities ordered. The only plant that could master such an order is Kazan Aviation. In Kazan, training has begun training equipment for the production of the newest bomber. This meant that the Tupolev Design Bureau lost its main production base. Neither Tupolev himself, nor his patron, Minister of Aviation Industry Peter Dementiev could allow this to happen. Under the pretext of releasing a modified version of the Tu-22 (and in fact, a completely new Tu-22M), Sukhoi was “squeezed out” from the Kazan plant.

In the meantime, the second stage of testing began. 22 On January 1974, the tenth flight of the "weave" took place, on which the T-4 reached an altitude of 12 km and a speed of M = 1,36. At this stage, it was supposed to bring the speed up to 3000 km / h (M = 2,8) and start testing the 102 machine with a standard set of radio equipment.

Sukhoi was offered to build the first 50 aircraft at the Tushino Machine-Building Plant, suggesting to completely rebuild it, which was unlikely due to lack of funds. But Dementiev deprived Sukhoi of this small chance. At a regular meeting with the Minister of Defense, he persuaded him to close the T-4 program, deploying the production of wings for the newest Soviet fighter MiG-23 at TMZ. Grechko agreed, and in March 1974, all work on the tests of the T-4 stopped without explanation.

Until his death 15 September 1975, Pavel Sukhoi did not receive an exhaustive answer about the reasons for the freezing of the T-4 project. Only
28 January 1976 of the year issued an order of the Ministry of Aviation Industry under the number 38, which closed the work on the program "products 100». By the same order, Peter Dementiev designated the reason: “In order to concentrate forces and funds on the creation of the Tu-160 aircraft”.

The 101 aircraft was sent to eternal parking at the Moninsky Museum, where it remains to this day. In the 1976 year, after the order was issued, the Sukhoi Design Bureau presented an estimate of the cost of the T-4 aircraft, which at the prices of that time amounted to a fantastic amount of 1,3 billion rubles. There was a noise in the government, but this last surge of emotions along the "weave" led to nothing.

Unsinkable

Not a single aircraft in the USSR, either before or after the T-4, had such a number of original designs. Virtually all of the major components, systems and components of the aircraft were developed at the level of inventions - they were registered around 600. It was a truly giant breakthrough in the field of aircraft construction. Only here at the time of closing the topic, the plane could no longer solve its main task - the breakthrough of the air defense of a carrier warrant and the destruction of an aircraft carrier. As, however, neither the Soviet submarines with the high-speed torpedoes "Squall" and cruise missiles, nor the atomic missile cruisers could solve this.

On the other hand, the Tu-160 supersonic strategic bomber that replaced him in modern wars was also not needed. Having consumed no less cash.

Predecessors and analogues of the strategic bomber T-4



1981
TU-160 rocket carrier


The last Soviet strategic bomber. Take-off weight 267 t, cruising speed 850 km / h, maximum - 2000 km / h, range - up to 14 000 km. Armament - up to 40 t guided missiles and aerial bombs. Standardly - two revolving launchers with six strategic and tactical cruise missiles X-55 and X-55. The most expensive Soviet aircraft is a multi-mode strategic bomber Tu-160. Created primarily for the breakthrough of the US air defense system, it failed in its task. It is still being produced in small series.



1959
M-50


A revolutionary experimental supersonic strategic bomber, created under the leadership of Vladimir Myasishchev in OKB-23. With take-off weight in 175 t, the aircraft was supposed to develop a cruising speed of 1500 km / h (maximum 1950 km / h) and carry 20 t free-fall high-power bombs in the fuselage compartment to a range of 7400 km at an altitude of 16,5 km.



1964
XB-70 Valkyrie


Experimental American titanium supersonic strategic bomber, created by North American. With take-off weight in 240 T, an aircraft with a maximum speed of 3220 km / h at an altitude of 21 km was supposed to deliver bombs and missiles with thermonuclear warheads to a range of up to 12 000 km. This aircraft was not launched into the series.
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  1. Su-9
    Su-9 21 September 2013 08: 41 New
    20
    I would not call it a tragic fate. The plane was made, the technologies worked out - most likely many were useful for the Su-27 family - T-50.
    And the fact that the T-4 was not launched into the series seemed to be the right (from a distance of years) strategic decision. The plane was at least complicated and expensive both in production and in operation ...
    But from the outside it is always easy to judge.
    1. astra
      astra 21 September 2013 10: 03 New
      +6
      Oh, how many wonderful projects were ruined, they were not allowed to go into series. It is necessary to modernize and start production of the unique MIG-31 aircraft
      1. igor.borov775
        igor.borov775 21 September 2013 14: 41 New
        +2
        Here it is necessary to modernize Much is needed, From the beginning it is necessary to determine what we need, And only then to determine, The solutions laid down but never implemented are unique, But the machine was created in another country and the possibilities were much greater now there is a struggle for preservation and perhaps further work on such a complex of weapons, In this machine they almost tried to realize the horizontal destruction of the enemy, This is a completely different level of tasks and solutions, After all, so much time has passed and the potential of this system has not really been brought to those Chronicles that were laid down, Over the past 20 years, much has become seen as different and the system that has been implemented requires not just modernization but bringing to the standards that the creators of this machine wanted, Many understand one thing but only now we need to raise the armed forces to a new level, Do we need a system It is not for us to decide to intercept all attack systems, including space ones, and not everything depends on the capabilities of Russian industry and science, and this is a slightly different possibility,
        1. astra
          astra 21 September 2013 17: 45 New
          +5
          Quote: igor.borov775
          But do we need a system for intercepting all attack systems, including space ones, and not now and it all depends on the capabilities of Russian industry and science, and this is a slightly different possibility,

          Of course, it’s necessary that moment 31 just solves many problems that are not subject to our other planes. We have holes in the north and we have to close them, moment 31 just solves these problems, unfortunately we are carrying aircraft and production has not been launched yet. Regarding the capabilities of Russian industry and science, if we are building 4 ++ and 5 generation airplanes, then why can’t we instant 31? If you want, you can. It all depends on the decision of the Moscow Region.
    2. 0255
      0255 21 September 2013 13: 32 New
      +3
      And the fact that the T-4 was not launched into the series seemed to be the right (from a distance of years) strategic decision. The plane was at least complicated and expensive both in production and in operation ...

      Don't write off T-4. The Vietnamese failed to shoot down American SR-71 and A-12 in the Vietnam War. Or remember how in 1973 the Soviet MiG-25RB infuriated the pilots of the Israeli Phantoms. In the Iranian-Iraqi war, only one MiG-25RB was shot down, also, probably, drove the Iranian pilots.
      The same SR-71 was even more expensive and more complicated, it was removed from service several times and taken back. When the Americans adopted the F-15, they conducted training intercepts of the SR-71, which simulated the MiG-25, and came to the conclusion that the F-15, for all its merits, was not effective against targets flying at high speed. And the F-22 pilots would have choked earlier when trying to rise above 7 km wink
    3. Russ69
      Russ69 21 September 2013 14: 24 New
      +3
      Quote: Su-9
      I would not call it a tragic fate. The plane was made, the technologies worked out - most likely many were useful for the Su-27 family - T-50.
      And the fact that the T-4 was not launched into the series seemed to be the right (from a distance of years) strategic decision.

      I agree that the creation of any aircraft new in technology is, first of all, a good technological bookmark in future projects.
      Not even going to the T-4 series, saved a ton of time and money for others. A certain positive role, he still played.
      1. Turbo 253
        Turbo 253 27 September 2013 13: 18 New
        0
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    4. cdrt
      cdrt 21 September 2013 14: 43 New
      +2
      What's funny is that the Yak copied the Hustler concept, the T-100 Valkyrie concept. And then, and another - "catch up and overtake" ...
      Well, a characteristic outcome - when the prototypes were abandoned and their conceptual copies ended.
      A large-scale multi-mode strike aircraft was created, and it was riveted. By the way, in my opinion, the Tu-22M3 of all the above is the most beautiful aircraft.
    5. luiswoo
      luiswoo 21 September 2013 15: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: Su-9
      ... the technologies have been worked out - most likely many have come in handy for the Su-27 - T-50 family.

      Operating time 200-ki (T-4MS) went to Su-27 - that would be really revolutionary the plane, and 100 is just an ideological replica of the Valkyrie, whose fate was repeated. And besides production experience, I couldn’t give anything.

      If you were not chasing speed (the price of which is correspondingly high, for the final machine - even then, air defense developed in lush color and one speed, for its breakthrough - a weak argument), then maybe 200 would appear in metal, not Tu-160.
      1. luiswoo
        luiswoo 21 September 2013 15: 54 New
        0
        already then, the air defense developed in lush color and one speed, for its breakthrough - a weak argument

        I mean, they already knew how to intercept ballistic missiles. And the plane with a speed of at least 4000 km / h, theoretically was not a problem. And the Tupolevs seemed to take this into account - having created the Tu-160 with sufficient characteristics and most importantly, at an affordable price.
      2. Odysseus
        Odysseus 21 September 2013 19: 18 New
        +1
        Quote: luiswoo
        The achievements of the 200-ki (T-4MS) went to the Su-27 - that would be a truly revolutionary aircraft, and the 100-k just an ideological replica of the Valkyrie, the fate of which was repeated. And besides production experience, I couldn’t give anything.

        Both projects are revolutionary for our aircraft industry. In addition, continuity remained between the T-4 and T-4MS. But the layout of the two hundred is, of course, a new word.
        Quote: luiswoo
        And besides production experience, I couldn’t give anything.

        It is doubtful. The whole question rested on the price and production capacity.
        Quote: luiswoo
        If it were not for chasing speed (the price of which is correspondingly high, for the final machine - even then, air defense developed in lush color and one speed, for its breakthrough - a weak argument), then maybe 200 would appear in the metal, and not Tu- 160

        The requirements for the contestants were the same. The reasons for the Tu-160 metal embodiment are again military-economic. Where to give the Sukhoi T-4MS when the Su-27 and Su-24 hung on it.
      3. Serg 122
        Serg 122 21 September 2013 21: 16 New
        0
        Funny picture! In "Avatar" a similar pepelats flew ... laughing
    6. alex popov
      alex popov 22 September 2013 09: 31 New
      +2
      but now it is clear WHY Poghosyan crushed everything he could. not weak such "vendetta".
    7. vadim dok
      vadim dok 22 September 2013 17: 32 New
      +2
      Sukhoi was a Genius and a Seer! And therefore he had many envious people and enemies.
    8. Turbo 253
      Turbo 253 27 September 2013 13: 18 New
      0
      ------------------------
  2. Rash
    Rash 21 September 2013 09: 12 New
    10
    History repeats itself, the water cycle in nature. Now Sukhoi, led by Pogosyan, is spreading third-party developments.
  3. Nayhas
    Nayhas 21 September 2013 09: 32 New
    +3
    The very idea of ​​the AUG defense breakthrough scheme under which the T-4 was created was technically not feasible at that time. There were no such airborne radars that could detect AUGs at a distance of 600 km. And without it, the plane remained blind and useless.
    1. soldier of fortune
      soldier of fortune 21 September 2013 12: 20 New
      +2
      Quote: Nayhas
      The very idea of ​​the AUG defense breakthrough scheme under which the T-4 was created was technically not feasible at that time. There were no such airborne radars that could detect AUGs at a distance of 600 km. And without it, the plane remained blind and useless.


      And where are such categorical judgments coming from ?!
      Why not doable? Has such a combat mission been set at least once, at least one regiment? And where does the radar with a range of 600 km? Amers in the 70s also did not have radars today, but now the radio horizon is 10 miles in good weather and 5-6 miles in bad weather has not been canceled. And your 600 km in the vast expanses of the ocean without the exact square of the weather search will not do. Therefore, even in peacetime, AUGs are always monitored by 1-2 submarines + reconnaissance + space + Internet (google to help you). A missile launch in any case is carried out from outside the contact zone with air defense. If it sees an AWACS plane, then it will not be able to do anything, and this under the condition that if it is not first shot down. In the 70s, AUG anti-aircraft defense against targets with speeds of 2,8M was absolutely useless (MiG-25 flights to 2M over Israel and Egypt without any weapons proved this). Even now, only a few air defense systems will achieve a target of 2,8M with a probability of 0,6-0,8 in IDEAL conditions.
    2. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 21 September 2013 14: 55 New
      +3
      After all, it’s not only an idea that matters; the main question is the price of such an idea. Whatever the economy always dictates, this or that possibility does not need to be thought that the country was ruled by fools. They also calculated all possible options and the main cost of those costs.
    3. Odysseus
      Odysseus 21 September 2013 19: 31 New
      +3
      Quote: Nayhas
      The very idea of ​​the AUG defense breakthrough scheme under which the T-4 was created technically not feasible at that time

      The legend was ready in 1978. So everything is doable. Plus the X-45 had ARLGSN.
      The issue was the novelty and cost of the aircraft. There were a lot of defense and non-defense programs then. Therefore, they preferred a simpler and more reliable Tu-22M.
      Another thing is that it’s a shame to stop creating a car halfway when a lot has been done and so many resources and forces have been spent.
  4. avt
    avt 21 September 2013 09: 43 New
    +4
    I will not argue about the prospects of weaving. The machine for our aircraft industry is certainly outstanding, one might say opening a new stage in design. Although its application, let's say, raises some questions. But the article is biased and some points are not clear .---------- ,, On the other hand, the Tu-160 supersonic strategic bomber that replaced it was also not needed in modern wars. Having devoured at the same time no less money. "-------- request No, it’s clear that Sukhoi won the strategic competition. Grandfather, having squeezed administrative resources and taking away Myasishchev’s achievements, ended up with Tu-160. But why the hell is that? request And this is ----- ,, Predecessors and analogues of the strategic bomber T-4 "----- How to understand? And the author of the court does not want to insert B-17? Or TB-3. With what fright did we suddenly become a strategist? Even if the author looks at the picture of the project strategist Sukhoi that won the competition, there are more differences than Kalash's compared to Schmeiser, not to mention the design features.
    1. 0255
      0255 21 September 2013 13: 44 New
      +4
      On the other hand, the Tu-160 supersonic strategic bomber that replaced him in modern wars was also not needed. Having consumed no less cash.

      It was the "democrats" who came to power in 1991 that ate a lot of money that could have gone to the Tu-160 and the fifth-generation MiG, the first Su-37 with one engine according to the "duck" scheme, Yak-141, Ka -50 and Mi-28, and much more.
      And the Tu-160 could be used in Chechnya, Dagestan, Ossetia, Afghanistan. To dump his entire combat load of 45 tons on the heads of the Abreks and Mujahideen - fewer children would die.
      1. avt
        avt 21 September 2013 15: 54 New
        +4
        Quote: 0255
        And the Tu-160 could be used in Chechnya, Dagestan, Ossetia, Afghanistan.

        Well you give! Tu-16 and Tu-22M from Marov worked in Afghanistan, the division under the command of Dudaev by the way. So they were enough for their eyes, they just changed the terrain, the Masood spirits then returned to the place of bombing - they collected other precious stones and lapis lazuli. It wasn’t necessary to dig. In such conflicts, SU-34 class cars are enough for eyes, but why should you risk it with strategists? Like in South Ossetia.
    2. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 21 September 2013 15: 03 New
      +2
      Our rivals also had very good ideas, but failed to realize them despite large funding. I am writing about Americans. Not all ideas are worth such enormous investments and project financing. Even the richest country, having vast experience, had to refuse some projects, This also says something
      1. 0255
        0255 21 September 2013 15: 35 New
        +2
        I write about the Americans, Not all ideas are worth such enormous investments and project financing, Even the richest country, having tremendous experience, had to abandon some projects, This also says something,

        the story of the SR-71 and the F-35 flying iron refute your comment)))
  5. s9883300
    s9883300 21 September 2013 13: 09 New
    +1
    "Tu-160. Created primarily to break through the US air defense system, it did not cope with its task. It is still produced in small series."

    In general, what is left is unfinished
  6. soldier of fortune
    soldier of fortune 21 September 2013 13: 31 New
    16
    Amateur article with inadequate conclusions!
    It began over the dead, ended in a wake!

    At the very beginning, the author surrendered: "By the end of the 1950s, it became clear that the USSR could not adequately oppose the United States either in strategic aviation or in the field of the navy."

    I would like to ask: And what prevented the United States from bringing its "democracy" to the USSR by defeating our feeble Armed Forces? What was it about the end of the 50s in US FORCE?
    By the end of the 80s, all the power of the United States in Vietnam was defeated by a Kalashnikov assault rifle !!!

    The author of the article is technically illiterate and incompetent in the issue under discussion! It confuses superhigh-speed missiles (there is no such concept at all) and ballistic (flying along a ballistic trajectory).
    By the way, you can get into the aircraft carrier with a ballistic missile (the Chinese tried with the model on land ..... they hit!), But nobody posed such an expensive task, because there was no need. ICBMs are needed for the delivery of nuclear warheads which are undermined at a programmable optimal height to hit a larger area. Even if the aircraft carrier itself and is not drowned by the detonation of the BC, all planes, superstructures, antennas will be blown away from it, the avionics will go out, and the entire crew of the AUG, except the submariners, will die immediately or within 3 days in terrible agony.

    Another pearl: "The existing planes, ships and submarines were not able not only to get close to the range of a shot, but even to detect the target"

    Generally atas !!! Even on the network (not to mention the archives of Moscow Region) there are a bunch of documentary photos of tracking AUG from submarines, satellites, and airplanes! Now the location of any aircraft carrier is in Google with coordinates up to a meter! In those distant times, reconnaissance also did not sleep, the submarines were squared with the AUG definitely not to guess! And IL-18 (-20), too, did not comb the entire ocean to establish the exact composition of the order. And what's the point of looking for him in the vast expanses of the ocean, when he himself comes to us given the ridiculous radius of action of the air wing (especially those distant years).

    Another peremptory populism: “Only at the time the topic was closed, the plane could no longer solve its main task - to break through the air defense of an aircraft carrier order and destroy an aircraft carrier. missiles, nor nuclear missile cruisers. "

    Where does this conclusion come from? Nobody tried it !? Diagnosis from the category "......... because gladiolus!"
    Now it is no secret that the General Staff assigned ONE Tu-22M3 regiment according to its standard to strike at the AUG in order to disrupt its combat mission .... and we have a lot of regiments + PL + RK. A strike at the AUG to disrupt the task (incapacitation) is not a mandatory drowning, but at least 1-2 missiles hit the security ships and 4-6 missiles hit the aircraft carrier.
    Such a combat mission has never been set! AND THANK GOD !!!

    Again, the subjective: "On the other hand, the Tu-160 supersonic strategic bomber, which replaced it, was also not needed in modern wars. Having devoured no less money."

    Not a bomber but a missile carrier! In which wars? USSR - RF since 1945 officially did not declare war on anyone. The Engels air base on the Tu-22M3 and Tu-160 has been flying around the world for many years, and shooting, and getting there (in training), and the pilots say that they need them, because they are the best missile carriers in the world. There are simply no analogues! B-1 Lancer will never become a Tu-160! (although outwardly similar ..... as well as the equations of aerodynamics for them and for us).

    And you don’t need to sing about finances! Figures please .... accurate ...... adjusted for inflation and gold reserves :)
    1. hilt
      hilt 21 September 2013 14: 03 New
      +1
      I could not resist, you are confusing time and spaces, this is because A. Grek's article is a crumpled fragment of one chapter from the book of deputy. general firm Oleg Somoilovich Su, if I am not mistaken "Near Sukhoi", everything is logically and in detail described there, we are talking about the fantasies of the military of the late 50s-early 60s
      1. soldier of fortune
        soldier of fortune 21 September 2013 19: 35 New
        +2
        I am not confusing anything. Specifically, I am commenting on the article by A. Grek. I repeat, the article by A. Grek, which is not called "military fantasies". And, in addition, I study the books of the deputies of generals primary sources and statistics of use (including translations). And most importantly, I communicate with people, with direct participants (one relative is a submariner, another is a fighter pilot). The network also offers competent practitioners who have documentary photos and video frames in their archives. Therefore, I am convinced that there is no need for such "writers" to appear here with crumpled fragments of one chapter from a book ............
        1. Kadavercianin
          Kadavercianin 23 September 2013 14: 28 New
          +1
          By the way, due to the breakthrough of air defense at high speeds and altitudes. Pilots, who flew 31 at an instant, say that before the beginning of the 2000s most of the missiles left simply afterburner (sorry to quote to come out).
          In addition, are all systems of destruction of air targets of our "probable friend" capable of firing on a collision course? If my memory serves me, then not all, and in the 80s the issue of intercepting a target flying at a speed of 2.8M - 3M at an altitude of more than 22 km was more than serious, even now the task is not the most trivial and to say that this aircraft is already in I didn’t cope with it a little incorrectly in my time.
          1. Turbo 253
            Turbo 253 27 September 2013 13: 19 New
            0
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      2. Turbo 253
        Turbo 253 27 September 2013 13: 19 New
        0
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  7. castle
    castle 21 September 2013 13: 44 New
    0
    Good day. I found Yak-35 here, but it’s somehow not like Yak-33 and V-58. Is this a fantasy or a real project
    http://p-d-m.livejournal.com/59285.html ?
  8. Rusik.S
    Rusik.S 21 September 2013 14: 07 New
    +1
    On the other hand, the Tu-160 supersonic strategic bomber that replaced him in modern wars was also not needed. Having consumed no less cash.

    Rejoice that you were not needed.
    Created primarily to break through the US air defense system, he did not cope with his task
    In the sense of "failed"? Did our planes have this task?
  9. Avenger711
    Avenger711 21 September 2013 14: 11 New
    0
    And that Tu-160 went to the American air defense with bombs? Although Tupolev was once imprisoned for theft, the prison, at least the Stalinist sharashka of the resort regime, does not wean it from this.
  10. Moore
    Moore 21 September 2013 18: 31 New
    +3
    Only at the time the topic was closed, the plane could no longer solve its main task - breaking through the air defense of an aircraft carrier warrant and destroying an aircraft carrier. As, however, neither Soviet submarines with super-high-speed torpedoes “Flurry” and cruise missiles, nor nuclear missile cruisers could solve this.

    On the other hand, the Tu-160 supersonic strategic bomber that replaced him in modern wars was also not needed. Having consumed no less cash.

    Is that, like: ... Stirlitz knew that the last phrase is remembered ... "?
    Dear soldier of fortune has fully disclosed the topic. I’ll add from myself: let's cut the tanks - they also do not break through every defense, let's dismiss the motorized rifle - those are generally terrible things as ineffective - you can get into them from whatever you want.
    In short: the article has a bold minus for the semantic load.
  11. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 21 September 2013 20: 37 New
    +3
    Such masterpieces of aircraft construction as "Sotka", M-50, made a huge contribution to the development of aviation thought in the USSR and Russia. Therefore, Russian aviation holds leading positions in the global aircraft industry, because there were such brilliant aircraft! Many ideas, technical developments, inventions were later widely used in the design of new aviation equipment. I often come to the parking lot of the Air Force Museum to admire this beauty.
  12. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 21 September 2013 20: 41 New
    0
    Legendary "Sotka"
  13. understudy
    understudy 21 September 2013 23: 23 New
    0
    Quote: astra
    if you want it. Everything depends on the decision of the Moscow Region.

    Let me disagree with the fact that EVERYTHING depends on the Ministry of Defense. MO is able to "master" what it was given or what it was able to "knock out". Knock out from whom?
  14. ruslan207
    ruslan207 22 September 2013 07: 24 New
    0
    lining up to 3000С and develop a speed of over 3000 km / h. However, it was originally designed as a strategic bomber, designed for a combat load of 9 tons, and had an excessive take-off weight of about 230 tons.

    Well this is a mistake 3000s the melting temperature of tungsten can 300s it's believable
  15. studentmati
    studentmati 23 September 2013 03: 00 New
    0
    Whatever the result, all the invested funds paid off, and with interest in subsequent developments of all design bureaus without exception, including foreign ones. Absolutely all R&D has its imperceptible pluses and resonant minuses. If there was an opportunity not to advertise the presence of a flight specimen, then all innovative developments would have been received with a bang.
  16. ded10041948
    ded10041948 23 September 2013 09: 42 New
    0
    At first Tupolev crushed everyone and rowed everything for himself, now Pogosyan commands, "pays debts", but the case suffers. And the car WAS (unfortunately in the past tense) cool.
  17. Ev58
    Ev58 23 September 2013 10: 02 New
    +2
    Undoubtedly, at the time of the R&D and flight tests, the T4 was a promising and necessary development for the country's Armed Forces. But the comparison with the Tu-160, I think, is at least unfounded. You can compare aircraft of the same class and functional purpose. Despite the whole range of negative phenomena in the country, complex economic, social and other aspects, I will never say that we are not capable, that we cannot, that we are worse and many others are not. Why? Because the Russian people have given and are ready to give their lives for their Motherland, for the land on which they were born and raised, for the peaceful future of their wives, relatives and friends, children and other people of our country. Simply because there are people who love their Motherland and love not like Chubais for money and blessings, with which its bowels abound, but simply love.

    How can i live


    Thank you, God, I live!
    Bless my deeds!
    I am Russian, I was born here
    Where the sky smooth and blue,
    Where without beginning and end
    Beautiful meadows lie,
    Where between trees and fields
    Stretched the river arc ...
    Sparkle the sun on the water
    Like hundreds of little mirrors
    And this world, its country,
    I would never trade!
    Riches, Honors and Power
    Can not replace
    What I see, feel, love
    And how can I live!

    And what does the author of this article live with? There are problems - it is necessary to solve, but there were costs, intrigues, distortions under any system and ruler.
  18. Ev58
    Ev58 23 September 2013 10: 09 New
    0
    To the americans

    Do you still want to fight?
    It’s a pity, it’s time to get smarter.
    The world is changing and you must
    It seemed to become kinder ...
    You sharpen knives, prepare exquisite poisons
    And build big ships
    Bearing rockets and shells.
    You want all the Earth,
    Set up factories and factories,
    Just to increase the bills
    From numerous incomes!
    The whole world owes you, but why?
    Maybe you saved him
    When their weapons
    Have you been shocked in Vietnam?
    You to japan then
    Dropped bombs for peaceful purposes?
    Or Slovakia then
    Did you warm the shells with fire?
    Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan
    You, apparently, saved from death?
    There is no place on the map now,
    Where would your tanks not dance!
    But only you can’t see Russia!
    We won’t give a meter or a hundred,
    We will stand like a bone
    In your filthy, greedy throat!
    Many tried to conquer us,
    But only the Russian Spirit is not to their liking!
    Who wanted to do this
    Sent to the gutter story ditch!
    The strategy is changing, the budget is growing,
    Engage in conversation with China ...
    Who gets what piece,
    After the “big Russian quarrel”!
    Do you still want to fight?
    It's a pity it's time to get smarter
    The world is changing and you must
    It seemed to become kinder ...
    But who will try to attack
    I bet you will regret it
    We know how to meet enemies
    And the Russian Soul will not rust!
  19. xomaNN
    xomaNN 1 October 2013 17: 15 New
    0
    Aviation patriarch Tupolev, by the way, repeatedly "abused" his accessibility to high offices and hacked to death, in addition to "100", and some developments of other aircraft designers. With full support from the USSR Ministry of Aviation Industry. Perhaps now the situation has turned 180 degrees: the Sukhoi Design Bureau - Poghosyan, now dominates the air design bureau. wink
  20. Woldemar
    Woldemar April 23 2014 20: 17 New
    0
    These moments also seemed strange:
    “Only at the moment of closing the topic, the plane could no longer solve its main task - to break through the air defense of an aircraft carrier order and destroy an aircraft carrier. missile cruisers ... "
    "The most expensive Soviet aircraft is the Tu-160 multi-mode strategic missile carrier. Created primarily to break through the US air defense system, it did not cope with its task ..."

    That is, according to the author, we have nothing that we could oppose to the American AUG? Oh come on, I won’t believe it. Some nonsense.
    And what kind of task did the Tu-160 fail? Who set such a task for him or who modeled the enemy’s air defense breakthrough and where did the infa come from that the pilots and planes could not cope.
    Everything is unfounded. An article about "weaving" would be interesting, but such statements spoil the whole picture.