"Just near the concentration camp dug a moat and dumped there"

"Just near the concentration camp dug a moat and dumped there"Warsaw accused Moscow of being indifferent to the memory of 800 from thousands of Soviet prisoners tortured by the Nazis in Poland. According to Polish diplomats, their appeals to establish memorials at the burial site are ignored by the Russian authorities. In fact, with the number of dead Soviet prisoners of war, and with their graves, things are somewhat different.


Warsaw is ready to cooperate on the question of the burial of 800 by thousands of Soviet soldiers in the country, but this proposal remains unanswered, the Polish ambassador to Moscow, Katarzyna Pelczyńska-Nalec, complained on Tuesday.

“We have not seen a single official letter from the Polish side. Nothing but common words, no. We do not refuse to discuss this topic! ”

In Warsaw, great importance is attached to the worthy perpetuation of people's memory, said Pelczyńska Nalecz. According to her, Poland is surrounded by "great respect, including the Soviet soldiers who fought and who died or were taken prisoner."
However, as Ambassador RIA said, “News", Who died in the Nazi camps on the territory of Poland 800 thousand. Soviet soldiers did not deserve to perpetuate them." “800 thousand people is a huge amount, and we are ready to cooperate so that these 800 thousand people are also buried in a worthy manner in Poland,” said Pelczyńska Nalecz.

Recall that in September, the Russian Foreign Ministry declared a decisive protest to Warsaw, demanding "an end to the orgy" with the destruction of Soviet monuments. The Russian Defense Ministry was indignant at the indifference of the Polish authorities, who allowed the dismantling of the monument to the Hero of the Soviet Union, Ivan Chernyakhovsky. After that, in Poland there were public calls to demolish all Soviet monuments.

At the end of September, Pełczyńska Nalecz was summoned to the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs - she was declared a strong protest in connection with the desecration of more than 50 tombstones on the graves of Soviet soldiers in the cemetery in the town of Miljcice. Following this, the Polish Foreign Ministry condemned acts of vandalism. Police later said the two children 9 – 10 were vandals.

A spokesman for the Polish embassy Bartosh Chihotsky clarified that the cemeteries of Soviet soldiers who fell in battles, Russian soldiers from the First World War and even Napoleon’s campaigns are mostly in perfect order - almost two thousand.

“They are equipped at the expense of the budget of Poland. But prisoners of war, tortured in German camps, as a rule, do not have their own cemeteries, not even symbolic monuments, - said Chihotsky to the VIEW. - The places of these graves are not determined - they are only known approximately. Sometimes people of different nationalities were buried there together. They did not leave a trace. You know how people were killed in concentration camps! This is such a staggering figure - 800 thousands. "



"The Germans cleaned up everything behind them"

According to Chihotsky, Polish diplomats suggested several times to the Russian side to discuss the installation of such monuments, but still have not received an answer. However, he found it difficult to clarify what Warsaw would like to achieve. “There is not even interest from the Russian side. Therefore, it is difficult to say in detail what the Russian role could be, ”the diplomat admitted.

“Of course, we do not make any difference between prisoners of war and those killed in battle. Many of them are buried in common cemeteries, which are also jointly repaired, - an employee of the Russian mission in Warsaw replied in an interview with the VZGLYAD newspaper. - We have everything going evenly. Every year we have about seven to eight cemeteries equipped, there can be no difference. ”

As the Russian diplomat said, a regular repair plan for the next year was recently prepared. “Which memorial to equip in the first place is decided depending on the distance from the roads and cities, but the main thing - from the attendance. Unfortunately, most of the dead prisoners have no personal data. The Germans did their time, they cleaned everything up after themselves, ”he said.

According to our diplomat, there is no reason to talk about the abandonment of such monuments - all of them are certified and stand in line for the arrangement. “For example, this year we worked only in the Malopolska province (this is the south of the country, not far from Krakow). There, repair was mainly in the cemeteries of the soldiers of the Soviet army. But, let's say, next year it is planned to repair the memorial on виvirki and Vigury, in Warsaw, thousands of Red Army soldiers and prisoners of war are buried there. The second example - the final stage of work is scheduled in Pułtusk, there is also a joint cemetery. The cemetery in Brzezinka - more than eight thousand Red Army men and prisoners of war were buried together too. ”

But remembers the saved world


However, the interlocutor of the newspaper VIEW acknowledges that it was originally on the ground that the burials of the soldiers who died during the liberation of Poland were clearly marked and equipped - this is obvious, since they were buried by their own. “And how were the Germans buried? Just near the concentration camp dug a moat and dumped there. The boundaries of such graves are difficult to establish. Only in the 60-ies at such places there were monuments. The monuments are, of course, more modest - not as large-scale as in the central cemetery in Warsaw. But they are there, ”the Russian diplomat stressed.

“Yes, attendance of such monuments is much less. Most of the prisoners remain unknown, so no one goes to them. Relatives are going to Poland - those for whom it is important to bow to the grave of the very person who died. That's all. This is the only difference! But we do not forget them, and, for our part, we also repair and equip them, ”the diplomat said.
“We at the embassy did not see a single official letter from the Polish side on this issue,” the Russian diplomat is annoyed. - They have now expressed their opinions orally about this. But nothing but common words, no. We do not refuse to discuss this topic! ”

Either died, or escaped overseas


But the Russian diplomat did not dispute the figures that Peczyńska Nalec mentioned. According to him, the victims could be even more.

“The Poles are talking about 800 thousands, but this is not a fact. 600 thousands of our soldiers died during the liberation of Poland. It is not known how many prisoners. They could have been captured in any territory, and in which camp they were taken, it is not known: either to Germany, or to Poland, or to the Czech Republic. Naturally, we do not possess such statistics. ”

But it is clear that the number of those killed in captivity is incomparably greater, the diplomat acknowledged. “Take the same camps Auschwitz-Brzezinka, Sobibur. Imagine the scale? Indeed, in the territory of modern Poland there were a lot of large camps. Perhaps more than a million could die here, ”the diplomat said.

“We published the catalog back in 2003 year, we call the number there - that our prisoners were all contained here, perhaps, 1,2 million. We can’t say more precisely. It is very difficult to calculate personal data. Now the HBS “Memorial” at the Ministry of Defense has appeared, which is trying to find out from various sources the fate of the soldiers, ”the interlocutor noted.

What proportion of prisoners managed to survive is also unknown. “At one time, we received statistics from the American side that more than 500 thousands of our prisoners of war by hook or by crook left after the war to the States, Canada, and Brazil. We are missing or missing in captivity. Therefore, we must be very careful with the numbers, ”- the interlocutor made a reservation.

“Right now, the Ministry of Defense has opened a representative office in the United States. We pin great hopes on him. We hope that the Americans will give us the promised materials - despite the political intrigues. They once took out copies of documents from the western German lands. After that, it will be possible to calmly understand and delineate who did not return home because he ran away, ”the diplomat explained.

"Not all was included in the catalog"

Sergei Stankevich, a former political adviser to the president, who oversaw relations with Poland at the beginning of 90, and then lived in Warsaw for many years, does not rule out that officials of the two countries really need to meet in order to update the agreement “On tombs and places of memory of heroes War and Repression, signed in February 1994.

“There is a catalog of graves that fell under an intergovernmental agreement and are guarded from both sides. They are being well cared for. But not all was included in the catalog. For example, the monument to Chernyakhovsky was not entered, ”said the former adviser to the VIEW newspaper.

The catalog includes only memorials under which there are burials. “There is no grave under the monument of Chernyakhovsky. And local authorities can really dispose of such monuments, ”he reminded, adding that local authorities sometimes behave unworthily.

“In Soviet times, the inertia of Stalin’s perception was still in effect - once captured, then perhaps the traitors, and it’s not known at all who is buried there. I am afraid that in preparing the 1994 agreement of the year this circumstance was missed. Maybe our diplomats really need to meet and close this gap in the document, ”the former presidential adviser suggests.
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  1. Good_Taxist 8 October 2015 14: 39 New
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    A lot of apples are still bad ....
    ..... Puuuchit is not childish-))))))))
    1. Vend 8 October 2015 14: 41 New
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      To erect a monument so that the Poles have something to destroy later. And then you can see the monuments are ending. Save at least what you already have.
      1. MIKHAN 8 October 2015 14: 49 New
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        Poles ... They always hated us! The speech of the Commonwealth was such ... Moscow was robbed, etc. And we all feel sorry for them ..! Even tsarist Russia spread rot for their bad character ..! They won’t calm down .... The Germans soaked them in vain ...! We saved ... And they again start bastards ...
        1. 740
          740 8 October 2015 15: 20 New
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          Quote: MIKHAN
          Poles ... They always hated us!

          So what happens, your wife hates you? wink
          1. Reinhard 8 October 2015 15: 37 New
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            The question is strange. Me. Pole. semi-Ossetian wife? Hates? wink
        2. Gregazov 8 October 2015 15: 39 New
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          Quote: MIKHAN
          Poles ... They always hated us! The speech of the Commonwealth was such ... Moscow was robbed, etc. And we all feel sorry for them ..! Even tsarist Russia spread rot for their bad character ..! They won’t calm down .... The Germans soaked them in vain ...! We saved ... And they again start bastards ...

          My wife’s grandfather was captured in Germany. He ran four times, caught three times in Poland. The Poles handed it over to the Germans. And at first they will feed, tell where to go, and then surrender. For the fourth time, he went all over Poland hiding from people and reached his own.
          1. Weyland 8 October 2015 19: 58 New
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            Quote: GregAzov
            The Poles handed it over to the Germans


            The Germans were not far fools: concentration camps were purposefully done in areas where the local population liked to "surrender" fugitives (or even independently destroy, as in Austria - google "Mühlviertel hunt for hares"!)
      2. kil 31 8 October 2015 14: 56 New
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        Maybe our diplomats really need to meet and close this gap in the document. ” You can meet and agree. But is it worth it now to establish, let their nations go wild from the beginning. They cannot hold them in their hands. If you touch them, then immediately scream, strangle patriots. Deal with the beginning with internal problems.
        1. jjj
          jjj 8 October 2015 15: 14 New
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          Let us pay attention, when suddenly the Poles began to care for the memory of those tortured. They erase the memory of the heroes, and stick out the memory of the innocently killed. No matter how heroic the Red Army was, but there were weak and inept that hundreds of thousands were captured. This is a very subtle calculation of the West, this is another attempt to rewrite history
    2. Vyacheslav 64 8 October 2015 15: 28 New
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      Again, the pans outrageous, well, nothing, we still remember the fate of the prisoners of the Soviet-Polish war ...
  2. venaya 8 October 2015 14: 52 New
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    The Poles are having fun. Govnisty people, do not redo. Talk to them ....
    1. Reinhard 8 October 2015 15: 39 New
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      About this, no need!
    2. alekc75 8 October 2015 16: 41 New
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      we need to talk hard with them
    3. Des10 8 October 2015 21: 29 New
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      G.-but there is everywhere.
      All the people are so dirty - your words will return to you.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  3. sl22277 8 October 2015 15: 02 New
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    How did the monuments go wrong that you kick the dead so ?! The Red Army played a key role in the victory over fascism and in your corrupt country, this cannot be changed by anything or anyone. This must be constantly remembered, especially at the present time, when many public figures are trying to falsify history.
    1. Bombardier 8 October 2015 15: 14 New
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      "Strangled, cut, pricked, raped ..." Poles in World War II.

      maxfux
      October 3rd, 14:27
      The Polish genocide of Jews in World War II was threatening. So much so that the Jews were forced to turn to the Germans for help from the brutal Poles.

      read here:

      http://maxfux.livejournal.com/933647.html
      1. Reinhard 8 October 2015 15: 41 New
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        Yes ! It was so!
      2. Weyland 9 October 2015 01: 07 New
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        Quote: Bombardier
        Polish genocide of Jews in World War II was threatening


        Few remember that Hitler’s anti-Semitic "Nuremberg Laws»Developed on the basis of modern Polish laws
      3. The comment was deleted.
  4. 79807420129 8 October 2015 15: 08 New
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    Polish hypocrisy knows no bounds and bestiality, and Stankevich Yeltsin’s uproot has long been fed from a European hand.
  5. Bakht 8 October 2015 15: 12 New
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    It is necessary to eliminate the main monument to Soviet soldiers in Poland. Yes, and in general in Europe. We are talking about "independent" states. Such as Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and other riffraff. Limitrophs, they are in Europe limotrophs.
    1. pv1005 8 October 2015 16: 24 New
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      You probably meant that the main monument to Soviet soldiers in Poland is the state of Poland itself (and the rest of the Baltic states), this is one thing. If not, then do not be offended. hi
      1. Bakht 8 October 2015 16: 49 New
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        I have not been offended by the minuses for a long time. But you correctly noticed. The main monument to Soviet soldiers in Poland is the Polish "independent" state itself. Without hundreds of thousands of victims of Soviet people, there would have been a governor general.

        And what was so incomprehensible in my message? winked
        1. Fox
          Fox 8 October 2015 17: 18 New
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          Quote: Bakht
          And what was so incomprehensible in my message?

          just everyone can read ... but understand ... hi
        2. pv1005 8 October 2015 20: 05 New
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          Quote: Bakht
          And what was so incomprehensible in my message? winked


          Quote: Fox
          just everyone can read ... but understand ...


          Well, here, three minuses talk about it. But these are only those who are noted, but there are also those who simply did not understand. hi
  6. Petrof 8 October 2015 15: 17 New
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    Warsaw accused Moscow //

    such a familiar wording
    and you can enter in the continuation of anything, even frank nonsense, the main thing is to voice it for propaganda purposes
  7. mig31 8 October 2015 15: 21 New
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    History does not tolerate subjunctive moods, everyone will answer before the memory of the dead, including nonsense people who do not know history ....
  8. afrikanez 8 October 2015 15: 22 New
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    In Warsaw, great importance is attached to a worthy perpetuation of people's memory,
    Exactly the same as the destruction of the same monuments. am
  9. EvgNik 8 October 2015 15: 32 New
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    Listen to what nonsense the Poles carry, and even answer them - do not respect yourself.
    1. Reinhard 8 October 2015 15: 43 New
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      You do not compare the speeches of all kinds of different "politicians." We are those. who work hard. Our opinion is always different.
  10. kizhe 8 October 2015 15: 37 New
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    And would these 9-10 year old children (Polish) be born if our soldiers had not died for their future? Maybe now Poland wouldn’t run around in Poland.
  11. AlexTires 8 October 2015 16: 16 New
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    The Polish side vomited after 70 years of liberation from the Wehrmacht: "all this comes at the expense of the Polish state."
    Does Warsaw need money from dead Soviet soldiers? By the way, there are not only Russians, but also all 15 nationalities.

    To resolve the issue, we begin with the fact that:
    These soldiers gave their lives for the liberation of Poland from fascism. So they are compensated for the liberation of Poland from the Nazi invaders.
    1 Payment of compensation to relatives, for each killed, by current standards will be about 2-3 million dollars for the deceased.
    2 Relatives will receive this money and decide how to rebury their soldiers who have not returned from now necrophilous Poland.
    3 In the absence of relatives of the deceased, funds from Poland will go to the special account of the Russian Federation, which later can be used to create a project to accommodate the requirements of the current Polish necrophiles.
  12. olimpiada15 8 October 2015 16: 17 New
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    Sneaky offspring.
    Indeed, why install monuments, if they demolish them?
    The Poles seem like gyrus completely disappeared.
    If there were victims in concentration camps <it means there was an aggressor who committed these crimes <means there was a winner. Winners who gave their lives in the fight against the aggressor, who stopped the death factory, are worthy not only of memory, but of honor and glory forever.
    First of all, it is necessary to honor the liberators, and the Poles have no honor or conscience if they demolish these monuments.
    They do not honor the memory of the liberators, they will not honor the memory of the prisoners. Why equip the burial grounds so that the Poles can once again abuse the people whom they have already abused during their lifetime.
    To what moral baseness the Poles have come !!!
    1. alekc75 8 October 2015 16: 44 New
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      pshek is the most vile nation
  13. made13 8 October 2015 16: 36 New
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    The Psheks are either flirting with Russia, or they are trying to lower them again. They want - let them erect monuments themselves. At the expense of Russia, capitalists are trying to make memorial places to replace the destroyed ones.
  14. Bakht 8 October 2015 17: 14 New
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    Quote: pv1005
    You probably meant that the main monument to Soviet soldiers in Poland is the state of Poland itself (and the rest of the Baltic states), this is one thing. If not, then do not be offended. hi

    I have not been offended by the minuses for a long time. But you correctly noticed. The main monument to Soviet soldiers in Poland is the Polish "independent" state itself. Without hundreds of thousands of victims of Soviet people, there would have been a governor general.

    And what was so incomprehensible in my message?
  15. da Vinci 8 October 2015 18: 35 New
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    That's what a shame that we see the direct heritage of the USSR. Why? Our "brothers in socialism" very clearly adhered to the rule "*** in your eyes, and you are God's dew." How many of these friends are *** in our eyes during the USSR, and we just smiled. And now they continue, but the Russians no longer smile, and that’s how they get their former friends. And these "brothers" had to be poked like a prudent cat in the face of war crimes in the XNUMXth century and kept at a distance. By the way, the United States still reminds Europe of its saving mission in the fight against Hitler, and the Europeans nod, happily wiping themselves. This is the right attitude towards your friends! wink Sorry for being rude, but got it.
  16. sledge 8 October 2015 21: 19 New
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    These destroy our monuments from World War II and at the same time accuse us of indifference belay
  17. Bakht 8 October 2015 21: 29 New
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    The western part of East Prussia, the city of Danzig (present Gdansk) with adjacent territories and the lands of the former "Polish corridor" (Mazovia) entered Poland. These changes have not been contracted.

    Poland included Pomerania from the city of Stettin (modern Szczecin) and Silesia from the city of Breslau (modern Wroclaw). The acquisition of Poland in the west at the expense of Germany offset the losses from the loss of the western regions of Belarus and Ukraine. Unlike pre-war multinational Poland, the new Poland became a mono-ethnic state. The western border of Poland has not received contractual clearance. In 1950, an agreement was signed between Poland and the German Democratic Republic (created in September 1949 on the territory of the eastern occupation sectors of Germany, see below) in the Polish city of Zgorzelec to draw a “border of peace and friendship” along the Oder-West Neisse line . The Western powers and West Germany did not recognize its legitimacy.

    It would be necessary for the Germans to throw an idea. Poland’s western border is not recognized by Europe.
  18. Vasisualiy 8 October 2015 22: 39 New
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    They can’t be controlled, these Poles! So beg for it. Yes, apples are apparently bad for the brain.
  19. walrus-a 9 October 2015 06: 52 New
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    Honestly, we have long strained relations with the Polish elite, since the time of the troubles. They did not manage to put their king on the Moscow presto, and they are still "pouting", therefore, relations are not improving. And there are people everywhere: my grandfather and his brother, who were captured in 1941, were released by a German escort, though, he shot into the air for formality. After that, the grandfather passed the whole war.
  20. polkovnik manuch 9 October 2015 17: 18 New
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    There is a proverb: “The dead do not have shame!” - therefore, our living descendants need to sit down and talk (agree!) About military graves, necessarily from the standpoint that our soldiers died while liberating Poland, the Polish people, Poland should always remember about this - do not be of these deaths (800-900 thousand soldiers who died for the liberation of Poland), it would not be known, Poland now at all, maybe there would be no geographical concept. Shame on you!