Horrifying torpedoes

Is there any hope of getting a sea underwater weapons out of crisis


During the military-technical forum “Army-2015”, an extremely interesting and useful “round table” “Sea Underwater Weapon (MPO): Realities and Prospects” was held. About this event, the newspaper "Military Industrial Complex" has already written ("With the nodes themselves"), but it is necessary to clarify a number of fundamental issues. The author of the article actively participated in the discussion of the reports and was designated in this article as a reserve officer.

It is categorically impossible to agree with the thesis of some representatives of the Navy that "the concept of the development of sea underwater weapons (MPO), approved by the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation in 2012, lit the green light for the development of new weapons and modernization of existing weapons and military equipment". The author was directly involved in the events related to MPO and the development of the concept of MPO, since he has been actively working on this topic since 2007. The starting point was the concept of modernizing the third-generation nuclear submarines and their armaments, developed in 2006, which was established by order and sent to a number of organizations (VA GSH, Operational Control and Central Directorate of the Navy, Naval Armed Forces, defense industry organizations). For some of the most important points, 2006’s offers are significantly superior to those that are now being implemented under a similar program.

Half a century behind


Taking into account the critical situation with the IGO Navy, Admiral Suchkov, in 2007, an official note was sent to the RF Minister of Defense. The minister said: give a concept (business plan), we will solve the issue of financing for it. However, the development and approval of the MPO concept was disrupted, primarily due to the fault of the Directorate of anti-submarine weapons (OLA) of the Navy. There, in particular, relied on the project "Physicist".

The Fizik-1 torpedo passed state tests in 2007, but the deployment of its serial production was disrupted. Some experts said the Physics was obsolete, its mass production was not practical, and most importantly, its readiness to develop an entirely new modular series of torpedoes with record-breaking characteristics - the Lomonos Development Center. It was also stated that there was all the necessary scientific and technical groundwork for this. This promise was one of the reasons for the almost complete cessation of promising research on IGOs. And why, if the leading organization declares that everything is already there and in a few years it’s supposed to be already on navy?

But Lomonos turned out to be a bluff, to which the officers of the Navy, who retained the honor and conscience, despite considerable administrative pressure, put up tough resistance. In particular, it was succeeded to punch a series practically crushed by intrigues "Physicist-1".

It is necessary to emphasize the obvious artificiality of the torpedo crisis of the Navy. We had developments at a quite decent level, lagged behind in a number of areas, exceeded foreign competitors in a number of others. In the scientific developments until the end of 2000, we were on a par with the West. However, according to the results of the ROC, and most importantly - the level of sea underwater weapons in the ammunition of the fleet, the gap was catastrophic - fifty years. There was no such lag in any type of military equipment.

Recently, the problem of a torpedo crisis has reached the highest level, a number of decisions have been made in the defense industry complex, giving hope for a remedial situation. However, there are too many questions to the military - the Navy and some central structures of the MoD.

The extent of our lag in MPO is tough to raise the question of the objective discovery of causes. Without this, it is impossible to move on. And even more so it is impossible to repeat previously made mistakes.

Developed in 2013, the concept of the Navy's IGO is a document that cannot be used today. The reason is, first of all, that this concept did not reflect the real tasks of the Navy's IGOs ​​and their solutions, but the institutional interests of certain organizations that they were able to carry out in it. Therefore, it was cut off from the real possibilities and problems of the Navy and military-industrial complex.

At the same time, the MPO is the most critical direction of military equipment, which is crucial for ensuring the country's defense and strategic deterrence. The basis of the latter is not the range of the flight and the number of SLBM warheads, but the inevitability of a retaliatory strike, the basis of which is the combat strength of the NSNF (for which the MPO is required).

Today, the country and the fleet need an honest and reasonable integrated target program “Marine Underwater Weapon” to overcome the acute crisis of IGOs. Otherwise, the construction of the Russian Navy in its current form does not make sense.

Unequal battle


One of the main problems of our MPO is the issue of effective salvo distances, more precisely, their ratios between us and our competitors.

Horrifying torpedoes


Even at the end of the 48-s of the last century, the effective distances of the Mk80 volley of the MpXNUMX torpedoes were about three times the counter-detection distance of our submarine. In fact, the enemy had the opportunity to virtually with impunity shoot our submarines from distances where our torpedoes turned out to be obviously ineffective. This situation is actually preserved today.

For this reason, an important role in the ammunition of our submarines played PLR, the possibility of which our potential opponent knew and feared.

Problems with the detection of low-noise submarines at large distances lead some of our experts to conclude that the torpedo is a melee weapon. The implementation of such a conclusion in practice will mean for the enemy the possibility of unpunished execution of our submarines in battle. To solve this problem, we need both the PCR and long-range remote-controlled torpedoes with the approach to the submarine torpedoes as a high-precision complex that provides covert defeat of targets from long distances. Long range shooting definitely requires telecontrol, but most naval torpedoes have not and never have. In those products where there is a telecontrol, it is frozen at the level of 60's.

Against the background of extremely low characteristics of existing domestic telecontrol systems, voices are heard that we do not need it at all. At the same time, the foreign experience of TU is completely ignored. For example, the remote control of the 211ТТ1 torpedo created more than ten years ago (in common parlance - “Chinese physicist”) is twice as important as what we have today in our UGST.

For effective shooting at long distances, you need a combination of high speed, long range and high stealth of its movement. In terms of ensuring high speed, the only opportunity for us today is thermal energy power plants. In the West, new electric ESAs have surpassed thermal, but we do not have the necessary batteries, but there is a complete lack of R & D in this area. In fact, today the technical level of the batteries used by the Navy corresponds to Western 50 – 60-s (water-activated open-cycle battery, the design of which we borrowed from the American Mk44 torpedo of the end of the 50-s). Batteries torpedoes - one of the most critical issues of domestic torpedo building, and without the appropriate state funding and the formulation of the problem, this problem will not be solved.

At the same time, the emerging opportunities for effective modernization of the USET-80 torpedoes (with the installation of the VDPM engine) make it possible to bring this torpedo to the level of modern requirements with the advent of new batteries.

Some drawbacks of thermal ESAs suggest that the future of 530 caliber millimeters and more is for electric ESAs; however, for torpedoes of 324 millimeter caliber, thermal ESAs have an unequivocal priority due to their ability to deliver more power. It should be noted: in the near future for carriers of the fifth generation, we may find ourselves in a situation where it is necessary to switch to an increased caliber of torpedoes. The key issue here is the real modern requirements for stealth submarine torpedoes, the fulfillment of which on torpedoes of a millimeter 530 caliber may be unlikely.

It makes sense to briefly examine certain aspects of a large torpedo problem.

Antitorpedy


At one time, the Russian Navy had an absolute priority in the use and development of anti-torpedoes, up to the world's first excellent results in targeting anti-torpedoes on torpedoes at the Theodosia test site in 1998.

However, for a number of reasons, the progress of R & D on the creation of active PTZ facilities has slowed dramatically. In fact, today we are doing what could and should have appeared on the submarine and NC Navy ten years ago. Along with the progress achieved, the problems are clear, there is an understanding of which way to go.

High-speed underwater missiles


The main conceptual flaw in the development of high-speed underwater missiles (SPM) is that since the beginning of the 80-s of the last century the effective distances from the volley torpedoes of the enemy have significantly exceeded the effective distances of the ABM. In addition, under the conditions of “clean water”, the SPR in terms of the delivery time of the warhead to the target completely loses to modern PLUR. At the same time, the most interesting and promising direction for the development of supercavitation ammunition, a small-caliber one, in which the West has been operating successfully, has remained undervalued for a long time. From the positive in the reports of the “round table” of “Army-15”, it should be noted that the promise of the “small-caliber direction” of the SPR is recognized by leading domestic experts.

320 caliber torpedoes mm


During the "round table" on this topic a lively discussion unfolded. G. Tikhonov, the representative of KMPO Gidropribor OJSC, announced the proposal on the implementation of the “short development work” for development aviation torpedoes based on the MGT-1 small-sized torpedo (product 294), the warhead of a broadband mine complex. It is categorically impossible to agree with this proposal, since the new small-sized torpedo of the Package complex has higher performance characteristics and it is advisable to consider it as a single base model of a small-sized torpedo of the Navy with support for use from ships, submarines, aircraft, and as a combat part of PLUR. At the same time, it is necessary to introduce a telecontrol and an anti-torpedo mode (originally incorporated into it by power reserve) on a modernized version of this torpedo.

As for the small-sized torpedoes MGT-1 (the domestic version of the American torpedoes Mk46), on the one hand, we should thank the management of Dagdiesel, who managed to keep the technology and production line in a very difficult situation, and on the other, MGT-1 should be fighting part of the broadband mine complexes (with simplified SSN). The opinion of a number of specialists about the need to use basic miniature torpedoes in mine complexes cannot be categorically agreed. And it is not only that such a decision significantly increases the cost of a mine, thus calling into question the expediency of its creation, but the main thing is that setting up a modern torpedo as part of a modern mine is a direct prerequisite for disclosing state secrets. In 1968, the US Navy successfully stole two newest PM-2 mines from near Vladivostok. Since then, the underwater technology has gone far in its development, and taking into account this factor, the combat unit of the exposed mine must be a “simplified torpedo”, which has a moderate cost and does not contain specially protected information.

Ultra Small Torpedoes


One cannot agree with the opinion of the representatives of the 1 Central Research Institute on the base sample of the 124 caliber of a millimeter. As a result of the development of the Central Research Institute "Gidropribor" of the start of the 2000-x of such a product, not only low TTX, but also a very high cost. Many experts reasonably raise the question of the optimal caliber 210 – 220 of millimeters, which sharply increases the performance characteristics of ultra-small products for various purposes, provides telecontrol and simplifies their development, testing and development in the fleet with the necessary shooting statistics.

Shoot more, shoot more often


Difficult environmental conditions of use require large statistics of torpedo firing in conditions close to real combat conditions — with massive use of firefighters, in the Arctic and at extreme distances.

For example, by adopting the Mk2006 mod.48 torpedo in 7 (about the same time as the Fizika-1 state tests), the US Navy for 2011 – 2012 had time to fire more than 300 torpedo shots Mk48 mod.7 Spiral XNNX -th modification of the software 4-th model of the torpedo). That's not counting the many hundreds of shots of the previous Mk4 samples from the latest model modifications (mod.7 Spiral 48-7).

Total for the period of testing the torpedo StingRay mod.1 150 firing was carried out. However, here it is necessary to take into account that when developing the first modification of StingRay (mod.0) about 500 tests were conducted. To reduce this number of firing for mod.1, the system for collecting and recording data of all firing and implementing a “dry landfill” on its base allowed us to pre-test new CCH solutions based on the available statistical results.

A separate issue is the testing of torpedo weapons in the Arctic.

The US and British navies conduct them on a regular basis during the ICEX's periodic exercises with the execution of mass torpedo shots.

For example, during the ICEX 2003, the Connecticut PLA released it within two weeks, and the ICEX 2003 station personnel removed the ADSAR torpedoes from under the 18 ice.

In a series of tests, Connecticut PLA attacked a target simulator provided by the US Navy Underwater Warfare Center (NUWC) with torpedoes, but in most cases the ship, using the telecontrol capabilities, used itself as a target for its own torpedoes.

Economic indicators of the operation of torpedoes are a very important requirement and directly affect the quality of fine-tuning and development of torpedoes in the fleet and, accordingly, the possibility of disclosing the full performance characteristics laid down in the design. The foundation of mass torpedo firing is the low cost of the shot and the participation of the fleet in the operation of torpedoes.

It remains to be regretted that for the time being we are not in a position to conduct tests of our own torpedoes on a scale like our western competitors.

Emergency Events

1. Considering our half a century lag in torpedo batteries, the only option for torpedo submarines with high performance characteristics is the use and development of Physics. It is necessary to open full-fledged R & D on the deep modernization of this torpedo.

2. Taking into account the prospects of the electric direction, it is necessary to complete the Ihtiosaur development work on the development of a new electric torpedo. The results of the “competing OCD” (leading organization) will be possible to speak only after conducting objective tests.

3. The key "torpedo event" in the defense industry should be KNIER "SNG-GPA" - "Investigation of the state and ways of development of promising CLS and PTZ tools with conducting complex tests in natural conditions" - with the aim of revealing the real situation and creating the necessary scientific and technical groundwork for the main the issue of torpedo weapons and PTZ.

4. A deep modernization of the “Package” complex is required in accordance with the proposals prepared for the military industrial complex in April 2013.

5. Anti-torpedoes play an exceptional role in the PTZ, it is necessary to mass their introduction on ships with the transition to promising complexes with a multiple increase in efficiency from the “Package-E / NK” level.

6. According to the results of KNIER "SSN-GPD" it is necessary to open the ROC on a promising SGPD, really providing a solution to the problem of PTZ against the latest enemy torpedoes.
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  1. srelock 4 October 2015 01: 55 New
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    Publications are minus. The author got a traffic jam and Enterofuril, otherwise it began to spill on the ax.

    http://vpk-news.ru/authors/1048
    http://vpk-news.ru/articles/6944
    1. dmitrich 4 October 2015 06: 14 New
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      drives bullshit!
      1. jjj
        jjj 4 October 2015 19: 42 New
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        And in the picture, the Sea Wolf launches a torpedo
    2. mine 7 October 2015 13: 32 New
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      « ... delighted with their successes ... seekers ... completing their cycle of full-scale tests of the Hummingbird torpedoes (294 caliber 324 mm caliber, 1973 g) with SSN, reproduced on the domestic element base ... this SSN "Ceramics" broke all records of longevity. There were practically no torpedoes left, where during modernization this SSB would not be installed as anti-submarine SSN. ”
      - This is from the developer’s jubilee publication about the main naval base torpedo, and it was torn by its SSN from the American torpedo of the beginning 60x (!!!)
      «The current means of anti-torpedo protection of domestic submarines are ineffective against modern foreign torpedoes ... It is proposed that the submarines of the Ash and Borey projects under construction be equipped with anti-torpedo protection systems (PTZ), technical specifications for the development of which were compiled in the 80 of the last century, the results of studies of the effectiveness of these means against modern torpedoes indicate an extremely low probability of non-defeat of the evading submarine " - “Marine Collection” No. 7, 2010.
    3. mine 29 November 2015 13: 22 New
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      YOU in this case vitamins from dementia
      in the first link there is an article in which I flogged this trinity of counterfeiters (in YOUR last link)
    4. mine 19 March 2017 13: 04 New
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      Quote: srelock
      Publications are minus. http://vpk-news.ru/articles/6944

      Monsieur, you are stupid and cheap
      smearing YOUR links:
      http://vpk-news.ru/articles/6997
  2. NEXUS 4 October 2015 02: 39 New
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    It makes little sense to do the best nuclear submarines in the world and equip them with obviously weaker weapons than the adversary. You need to catch up with the enemy in the matter of torpedoes, namely their range and effectiveness. But do not forget about the speed characteristics of the new torpedoes.
    1. Anton Gavrilov 4 October 2015 11: 40 New
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      That's right! And not only in torpedoes. The effective use of submarines can only be calculated with a perfect complex, a system based on the design of a submarine.

      It is necessary that the boats have perfect torpedoes, perfect means of SSAPD, perfect missiles, that they themselves are perfect, that communication systems, missile defense, reconnaissance, etc., are developed, so that there are no hand-guns with defeatists in the headquarters.

      In the end, in order to have a sufficient number of boats, the 1 should be of even the best boat in the world, if it is only 1, and not only in the sea, it cannot be in the fleet constantly. Well-trained crews are needed, but for this, in turn, is a series of coastal infrastructure for their preparation. A good system of repairs and maintenance is needed to maintain the series in good condition.

      Yes, a lot of things are needed. The fact of 1-only boats is not enough to win, you need a complex. What will happen if everyone doesn’t have a normal complex, they can easily and easily find out-look at the history of the use of our submarines in the Second World War, and the problems that the fleet had. And now, the state of our submarine is, alas, extremely far from ideal.
  3. Cat man null 4 October 2015 02: 59 New
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    Quote: srelock
    Publications are minus. The author got a traffic jam and Enterofuril, otherwise it began to spill on the ax

    If you look at who the author is (Maxim Klimov), you will find interesting details:

    Quote: http://www.militaryparitet.com/teletype/data/ic_teletype/8971/
    Mr. Klimov’s assessment of the contribution of the Central Research Institute “Gidropribor”, the successor of which is JSC “Concern“ Marine Underwater Weapons - Hydropribor ”, to the development of torpedo weapons is an example in many respects baseless, biased and unconstructive criticism

    Quote: http://glav.mobi/forum/5-military/469/offset/28420/
    ... on the Internet, during the discussion of the procurement of submarines of Project 636 by the fleets of Venezuela and Peru, a discussion unfolded that the submarines of Project 636 are outdated and can no longer be considered modern. In order to compromise these boats, a cumulative strike was carried out by forces of several "specialists" led by Maxim Klimov.

    On the Internet, it is known as 2503 on the RPF forum and as Mina, in the rest of the Internet. ...

    Along with the compromise of the submarines, the aforementioned Klimov Maxim released a series of articles stating that Russian torpedoes are completely outdated and ineffective. Numerous publications by Klimov Maxim led to the fact that his opinion began to be taken into account when making decisions to buy, or rather, to refuse to buy Russian submarines and their weapons

    About how belay

    The question, in this case, is why this article is in VO, and how did it get here?
    1. Zoldat_A 4 October 2015 06: 27 New
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      Quote: Cat Man Null
      If you look at who the author is (Maxim Klimov), you will find interesting details:

      Such a Nemtsov-Kasyanchik submarine fleet. Of course, I understand that hatred, screaming that our stone axes are the most stone axes in the world - this is not buzzing, but like this, in a crowd, watering all with diarrhea diarrhea ..... negative Not a specialist in ships and other fleets, but, I think, uncles with their heads are also sitting in our design bureaus and also inventing something. And they know how to invent with us - the whole world knows about that. Not everything is as bad as in the article. At least I think so ...
      1. mine 7 October 2015 13: 29 New
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        Monsieur, YOU ARE A PSACA. FULL.
        « ... delighted with their successes ... seekers ... completing their cycle of full-scale tests of the Hummingbird torpedoes (294 caliber 324 mm caliber, 1973 g) with SSN, reproduced on the domestic element base ... this SSN "Ceramics" broke all records of longevity. There were practically no torpedoes left, where during modernization this SSB would not be installed as anti-submarine SSN. ”
        - This is from the developer’s jubilee publication about the main naval base torpedo, and it was torn by its SSN from the American torpedo of the beginning 60x (!!!)
        «The current means of anti-torpedo protection of domestic submarines are ineffective against modern foreign torpedoes ... It is proposed that the submarines of the Ash and Borey projects under construction be equipped with anti-torpedo protection systems (PTZ), technical specifications for the development of which were compiled in the 80 of the last century, the results of studies of the effectiveness of these means against modern torpedoes indicate an extremely low probability of non-defeat of the evading submarine " - “Marine Collection” No. 7, 2010.
      2. mine 29 November 2015 13: 27 New
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        Well, yes, the whole world knows! - it must be contrived until this time to serialize to release the equipment "RIPPED" from the US BEGINNING of 60 years!
    2. mine 7 October 2015 13: 36 New
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      if you think with your head and not "a place in the cerebellum" then:
      1. Representatives of the "hydra" were rigidly baffled by their opus (those who wish will find it easily).
      2. Denis_469 - a "famous specialist" :) for tracking "John Paul 2", "Kissinger's confidant" in the "afterlife", etc. very "creative and advanced things." People are sick and specifically.

      Well, YOU, Monsieur your HIGHLY clearly showed what place you think
    3. mine 7 October 2015 13: 50 New
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      If you look at who the author is (Maxim Klimov), you will find interesting details:
      If you think a little with your head and not with the fact that "near the cerebellum", then:
      1. "Hydra" for this opus was "extortion and suhun". Those who wish can find the link easily.
      2. Denis_469 is a psychic big man, an obvious testimony of which is his site (he tracks the dead in the next world, etc.)

      Threat before shit drag on the forum at least a little think
    4. mine 29 November 2015 13: 25 New
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      yes YOU, I look like a dumpster lover (where these "links" were brought from), or rather not dumps, but "chambers No.6" where "character" Denis469 ("bankruptcy specialist of the defense industry enterprise" :)) not only writes about torpedoes "but also engaged in" tracking Jonan Paul 2 "in the afterlife.
      "Advanced" however boy :)
    5. mine 19 March 2017 13: 02 New
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      Quote: Cat Man Null
      If you look at who the author is (Maxim Klimov), you will find interesting details

      if you look where YOU got it DER-MO (cowardly forgetting to give the link), it turns out that YOU are the same patient in House No. 6 as the author of the High
  4. Wedmak 4 October 2015 07: 24 New
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    Um, not a word about the UGST. Not a word about rocket torpedoes. Where is the Waterfall? What kind of analysis is this? Nonsense, through a word of praise to the American military-industrial complex.
    1. Denis_469 4 October 2015 15: 57 New
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      UGST is Hydra. His personal enemy.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. mine 7 October 2015 13: 26 New
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      "Waterfall" - in the full version of the article (and not "chopped off", up to a distortion of the meaning of certain phrases of the military-industrial complex). See "Courage"
    3. mine 7 October 2015 13: 56 New
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      UGST - the export version of "Physics", about "Waterfall" - in the full version of the article (and not the badly clipped MIC) - "Courage"
  5. Barakuda 4 October 2015 08: 40 New
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    Quote: Cat Man Null
    The question, in this case, is why this article is in VO, and how did it get here?

    Then, in order to think, the brain was turned on. And everyone has the right to vote, and therefore it turned out. Matyukov, there are no calls for violence, everything is normal. Otherwise, why the site? Not all the while hurray to scream ..Although and WANTED wink
  6. nazar_0753 4 October 2015 08: 44 New
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    The topic of torpedo weapons, or rather criticism of our torpedoes, has recently been inferior in popularity only to disputes about the advisability of booking ships. Yes, in order to solve a problem, one must first admit that it exists. I am not a specialist in torpedo armament, but still, in my opinion, ours is still inferior to the western one, and by the number of torpedo fires, there’s nothing to say. Yes, you need to work, work and work again. But the article is still minus for the lack of information and panegyrics to American weapons
    1. mine 7 October 2015 13: 24 New
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      « ... delighted with their successes ... seekers ... completing their cycle of full-scale tests of the Hummingbird torpedoes (294 caliber 324 mm caliber, 1973 g) with SSN, reproduced on the domestic element base ... this SSN "Ceramics" broke all records of longevity. There were practically no torpedoes left, where during modernization this SSB would not be installed as anti-submarine SSN. ”
      - This is from the developer’s jubilee publication about the main naval base torpedo, and it was torn by its SSN from the American torpedo of the beginning 60x (!!!)
      «The current means of anti-torpedo protection of domestic submarines are ineffective against modern foreign torpedoes ... It is proposed that the submarines of the Ash and Borey projects under construction be equipped with anti-torpedo protection systems (PTZ), technical specifications for the development of which were compiled in the 80 of the last century, the results of studies of the effectiveness of these means against modern torpedoes indicate an extremely low probability of non-defeat of the evading submarine " - “Marine Collection” No. 7, 2010.
  7. tolian 4 October 2015 09: 43 New
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    Why not a word about “Squall”?
    1. Anton Gavrilov 4 October 2015 11: 45 New
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      And Sho Shkval is a perfect torpedo and a masterpiece? Without an SSN, without a TU at all, with a ridiculous range and depth of travel, with enormous noise, although with its range and speed it does not matter much, but nonetheless.
  8. Hammer 4 October 2015 10: 27 New
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    Why did I spend my time on it? Nor can I take in the habit of reading the author’s name first and then the article. Pah fool
    1. mine 19 March 2017 14: 16 New
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      yes YOU age group first look;)
      YOURS - not higher than primary school laughing
  9. link 4 October 2015 10: 44 New
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    Quote: Zoldat_A
    Quote: Cat Man Null
    If you look at who the author is (Maxim Klimov), you will find interesting details:

    Such a Nemtsov-Kasyanchik submarine fleet. Of course, I understand that hatred, screaming that our stone axes are the most stone axes in the world - this is not buzzing, but like this, in a crowd, watering all with diarrhea diarrhea ..... negative Not a specialist in ships and other fleets, but, I think, uncles with their heads are also sitting in our design bureaus and also inventing something. And they know how to invent with us - the whole world knows about that. Not everything is as bad as in the article. At least I think so ...

    Naive statements by an amateur .... Unfortunately, torpedoes in the USSR are still being made in Dagestan and Kyrgyzstan, and as for inventors and specialists, they are all about pre-retirement age and older. Young people do not come. Who will invent and do?
    1. Cat man null 4 October 2015 13: 47 New
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      Quote: link
      Naive amateur statements

      And you, supposedly, a professional .. looked at your comments (fortunately, there are few of them) - you found nothing but common words in them .. like in this case.

      What for some reason is not surprising negative

      PS: but there is simply frank nonsense laughing :

      Quote: link
      Quote: rosarioagro
      Quote: link
      ISIS pumps Iraqi oil in the occupied territories and sells it cheap to everyone, which reduces global prices
      Well, and how does he deliver it to the consumer, is this fraction so small that it can be neglected?
      Well, if 5 million dollars A DAY on the sale of ISIS oil (last year's data) is “trifles” for you, then of course ...))

      The share of oil produced by ISIS in global production, according to various estimates, is from 0.05 to 0.5 percent.

      What, to mom, a significant impact on oil prices ?? Sneakers do not tell ..
    2. Zoldat_A 5 October 2015 10: 34 New
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      Quote: link
      Naive amateur statements ....

      And I don’t deny that I saw torpedoes only on TV. And I don’t particularly get into arguments about which torpedoes are good and which are not, if you notice ... negative Each person has things about which he only read in books and saw on television. And there are things in which he, not without reason, is considered a specialist. And I make statements about the competence of our inventors on the basis of what I know well. I repeat once again - I did not discuss torpedoes, but just in case, I note that an amateur is a person who does not understand, but still climbs. I do not climb. At least in torpedo ships. Not my profile.
  10. Manul 4 October 2015 10: 58 New
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    Maybe I'm looking badly, but I can’t find articles about the current state of affairs of Russian submarine weapons. The topic is very interesting, and if we have so many people who are knowledgeable about this, then could you write an article with a real and truthful reflection of affairs in this area, or at worst bring links to articles and resources.
    1. Wedmak 4 October 2015 11: 06 New
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      Do not worry, the topic of torpedo weapons is a secret. The information is strictly dosed and very general.
  11. Denis_469 4 October 2015 11: 13 New
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    Interestingly, and who posted this article with nonsense sucked from a finger here? And how did the forum moderators miss this nonsense?
    "Is there any hope for a way out of the marine underwater weapons from the crisis" - is there, it is necessary to expel all sorts of Klimovs and others like him and those who invite him somewhere. Only after such stripping can we expect improvements.
    According to Physicist-1, the situation was the same. If Klimov and the company say that the torpedo is good, then it means shit, until proven otherwise. If Klimov and the company weren’t there, then the situation with the torpedo would be different. And she would be taken seriously. And only after a huge time it was proved that “Physicist-1” is still not shit. You need to understand that everything that Klimov comes into contact with becomes shit as soon as he, or someone from his company comes into contact with anything. And the Ichthyosaurus is also a very good example of this. Who will consider weapons made using the knowledge of those who suck everything out of their fingers (if not assholes) to be quality?
    “However, according to the results of the OKR, and most importantly, the level of marine underwater weapons in the fleet’s ammunition, the gap was catastrophic - fifty years. There was no such lag in any type of military equipment." - there is no lag anyway. Absolutely not. From whom is the lag: From England with her Speechfish, which were not written off only because there is nothing more? Or from Germany with its "DM2A4", which even the Turks have already begun to withdraw from service? Probably not just removed?
    “The effective distance of the salvo of a Mk48 torpedo from a submarine at the end of the 80s of the last century was about three times higher than the distance of the counter-detection of our submarines. In fact, the enemy had the opportunity to shoot our submarines practically with impunity from distances at which our torpedoes were obviously ineffective. the situation has actually survived today. " - This is definitely nonsense stoned. So when the Philippine transport was sunk, an American boat fired from the surface from a distance of only 8000 yards. Over a greater distance, the guidance of the Mk-48 mod.4 torpedo was not guaranteed. And spending 2 was a pity. A similar situation occurs for almost all other attacks: 6-12 kiloyards. With the sinking of South Korean transport, the firing range was 18 kiloyards. And this is on surface ships. The distance on submarines can be safely cut to 3. From where Klimov sucked his words I personally do not know, but they have nothing to do with reality.
    1. mine 7 October 2015 17: 54 New
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      this "brain juice" - to the doctor, or rather to the "nurses" (return the escaped patient of ward No. 6 to the place)
  12. Denis_469 4 October 2015 11: 13 New
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    In terms of anti-torpedoes, the same crap as in "Physics" is all that Klimov comes into contact with and the company becomes shit. And it takes a lot of time for that weapon to clear itself of such a title. Torpedoes are now being produced. And the fact that they did not appear earlier is again the merit of Klimov and his company. And even that - the volume of production of anti-torpedoes (both for NK and for submarines) is now small. And this again is the result of Klimov’s efforts with the company. That is, the fleet management recognized that anti-torpedoes are needed, and even puts them on new projects, but anti-torpedoes are not in a hurry to deploy large-scale production. Due to Klimov’s efforts, as I read, the Navy went backward. With the statement that anti-torpedoes are not needed, because the hull of the boat may not withstand a close explosion of a torpedo and a torpedo warhead. This is also, of course, nonsense, but it goes just in Klimov’s peak defending anti-torpedoes. I also think that anti-torpedoes are needed, only there is no worse enemy than the helpful (in the form of Klimov and his company). And because of the opposition to Klimov on the mortgaged head boat 5 of the project, there is still no decision made on the installation of an anti-torpedo on it.
    I hope that I clearly painted the situation with our torpedo weapons. And the “Ichthyosaurus”, in principle, is a good torpedo, only as long as Klimov’s company is around there, nobody on the “Ichthyosaurus” will especially doubt that there is shit. Even with good, in general, tests of prototype torpedoes.
  13. gregor6549 4 October 2015 13: 34 New
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    Again, "everything is lost." Maybe it’s time for the Navy to cover it once he has nothing to fight ?. But the conclusion from the article is just such a conclusion.
    And further. Is it necessary to lay out all the "chilling" details on a site that everyone who reads is not lazy to read. not to mention those who pay for reading and analysis of such articles sickly grandmothers in foreign currency. And here more than unnecessary details. In any case, the 5 years of strict regime is enough.
    1. Denis_469 4 October 2015 13: 50 New
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      So Klimov in the sandbox called "Courage" said so that if they don’t listen to him, then the fleet could not be built at all and the shop could be covered.

      And as for the details - look for all the posts of Klimov on all sites. Gather them in a bunch and get a description of all the developments of our weapons. I've gathered it through open sources and in the most general form posted it on my site. In the most general form, since from the posts of Mina I made a description of the same "Ichthyosaurus" we can say that almost completely. Therefore, on my site I posted only what a lazy analyst can directly read in the posts of Klimov. That is, the names of the projects.
    2. Denis_469 4 October 2015 14: 01 New
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      And it makes no sense to secret what and how it was messed up (by Mine, for example). Vaughn commander of our fleet in VKontakte sits and talks and then says what he learned there. Since what was written 1 time on the Internet there remains. In search engine caches. Therefore, it makes no sense to secret the blabbering at all. Another thing is what can be understood from the blabber. For example, Mina blabbed the names of the projects. Now this can be kept secret and say what they are. But the fact that you can subtract between the lines of Mina to write is not necessary.
  14. Cryoss 4 October 2015 14: 59 New
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    Guidance system
    Quote: gregor6549
    Again, "everything is lost." Maybe it’s time for the Navy to cover it once he has nothing to fight ?. But the conclusion from the article is just such a conclusion.
    And further. Is it necessary to lay out all the "chilling" details on a site that everyone who reads is not lazy to read. not to mention those who pay for reading and analysis of such articles sickly grandmothers in foreign currency. And here more than unnecessary details. In any case, the 5 years of strict regime is enough.

    The embezzlement flourishes under the left projects millions of dolars are sawed, of which only inflatable tanks are bought instead of real ones. The only thing that can stop this is the indignation of ordinary citizens. Let's keep everything secret, help the treasury.
    The main enemy is an official who steals money.
    1. Cat man null 4 October 2015 15: 09 New
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      Quote: Cryoss
      millions of dolars

      Masterpiece!

      The fact that "barracuda" in Ukrainian with one "r" is written, I already know.

      But he didn’t know what the "million" and "dollar" with one "l" laughing
  15. Denis_469 4 October 2015 15: 26 New
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    Yes, if anyone does not know, then our commander in chief is being watched on the Internet. And the trace of that surveillance can sometimes be subtracted on the Balancer. Someone who likes to follow the commander in chief is also there. Just don’t know who.
  16. Lt. Air Force stock 4 October 2015 16: 38 New
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    “The effective distance of the salvo of a Mk48 torpedo from a submarine back in the late 80s of the last century was about three times higher than the distance of counter-detection of our submarines. In fact, the enemy was able to shoot our submarines almost with impunity from distances at which our torpedoes were obviously ineffective. This situation has actually persisted today. ”
    It is not true. The maximum firing range of the Mk-48 torpedo is 50 kilometers, and the USET-80 is only 18, but Soviet and Russian submarines also had torpedoes with a diameter of 650 mm, namely 65-76, with a range of 50-100 kilometers (depending on speed), so there were RPK-6 Vodopad missile torpedoes (range of 50 kilometers) and RPK-7 Wind (range of 100 kilometers), the advantages of missile torpedoes in the rapid delivery of small torpedoes to the enemy submarine by air, thereby reducing the time for countermeasures (if conventional torpedo a distance of 50 kilometers takes 30 minutes, then missile torpedoes overcomes 3 minutes, and even less).
    Of course, torpedoes 65-76 are now retired, but there is a caliber rocket and torpedo with a range of 50 kilometers and a flight speed of 2,5 Mach.
    1. mine 19 March 2017 12: 59 New
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      Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
      It is not true. Maximum firing range

      YOU have an idea of ​​how and how the maximum ranges differ and you have EFFECTIVE? or just flood?
      1. Cat man null 19 March 2017 13: 02 New
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        Quote: mina
        Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
        It is not true. Maximum firing range

        YOU have an idea of ​​how and how the maximum ranges differ and you have EFFECTIVE? or just flood?

        - oh ... two loneliness found each other ...
        - you talk, chat. I foresee a sea of ​​humor good
        1. mine 19 March 2017 13: 52 New
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          Quote: Cat Man Null
          I foresee a sea of ​​humor

          A sea of ​​humor is YOUR “links” to garbage dumps of the type “chambers 6”;)
          1. Cat man null 19 March 2017 13: 54 New
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            Quote: mina
            A sea of ​​humor is YOUR “links” to garbage dumps of the type “chambers 6”;)

            - already funny; You go on go on yes
            - By the way, you only today have "talked" about a month ban ... Are you a masochist?
            - drank - behave yourself; otherwise you’ll get drunk, panim, carp ... stop
            1. mine 19 March 2017 14: 04 New
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              Quote: Cat Man Null
              By the way, you only today have "talked" about a month ban ...

              oh "scared" laughing

              Well ... I didn’t drink and I’m not going to
              possibly tomorrow :)

              but going through dipping ushlepkov type YOU - I will not deny myself
              1. Cat man null 19 March 2017 14: 06 New
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                Quote: mina
                ... I didn’t drink and I’m not going to ...

                - it's even worse request

                Quote: mina
                going to dunk ushlepkov type YOU - I will not deny myself

                - just a masochist ...
                - come on ... already negative
                1. mine 19 March 2017 14: 12 New
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                  Quote: Cat Man Null
                  go through

                  go - on the "walking sexual path"
                  laughing
  17. Conn 4 October 2015 22: 56 New
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    Klimov from the pin of dosnikov and his “benevolence”, and “worries” about the “backlog” of our R&D and putting into service the latest developments on torpedoes for submarines, are masked sabotage and lies.
    1. mine 7 October 2015 13: 21 New
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      « ... delighted with their successes ... seekers ... completing their cycle of full-scale tests of the Hummingbird torpedoes (294 caliber 324 mm caliber, 1973 g) with SSN, reproduced on the domestic element base ... this SSN "Ceramics" broke all records of longevity. There were practically no torpedoes left, where during modernization this SSB would not be installed as anti-submarine SSN. ”
      - This is from the developer’s jubilee publication about the main naval base torpedo, and it was torn by its SSN from the American torpedo of the beginning 60x (!!!)
      «The current means of anti-torpedo protection of domestic submarines are ineffective against modern foreign torpedoes ... It is proposed that the submarines of the Ash and Borey projects under construction be equipped with anti-torpedo protection systems (PTZ), technical specifications for the development of which were compiled in the 80 of the last century, the results of studies of the effectiveness of these means against modern torpedoes indicate an extremely low probability of non-defeat of the evading submarine " - “Marine Collection” No. 7, 2010.
  18. Felix1 5 October 2015 02: 31 New
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    Backlog not only in underwater armament but also in surface and in aviation
  19. CRASH 5 October 2015 12: 20 New
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    Too many obscure abbreviations)