Military Review

Expert: Pentagon grossly miscalculated, putting on the F-35

84
Having not built the minimum number of F-22 Raptor tested to maintain air superiority (instead of 243 airplanes, only 187 was built), the Pentagon hurried to announce their replacement with the “long-suffering” F-35, the founder of the military direction blog “Foxtrot” writes in its article. Alpha »Tyler Rogaway. Article leads RIA News.


Expert: Pentagon grossly miscalculated, putting on the F-35


The analyst notes that “while“ Raptors ”were proving their viability in the air, fierce battles were fought over the future of the F-22 program. Robert Gates, who led the Pentagon with two administrations - Barack Obama and George W. Bush, insisted that the project should be closed due to the fact that it is too expensive, and the fighters are suitable "only" for breaking into the enemy's air defense and for destroying with missiles air-to-air class. ”

According to him, "Gates' proposals came at the very moment when the price of the experimental F-22 samples began to fall sharply." So, “in the last batch of 60 fighters, one plane could cost $ 137 million - about the same now the“ affordable ”F-35 sample costs,” notes Rogoway.

As a result, the program was closed and switched to F-35, the “achievements” of which were already causing doubts. Gates explained this decision as follows: “The Air Force needs a fighter capable of fighting in modern combat conditions and according to the scenarios that the United States will most likely face in the coming years.”

“To maintain air superiority, I consider it necessary to build a fifth-generation tactical fighter, which could be produced in the right quantity and within a moderate budget,” the Minister of Defense said at the time.

The expert, in turn, notes that “the F-22 project was close to making a“ price coup ”- at some point the fighter developers were ready for production at a price of less than $ 100 million per aircraft.”

In fairness, it should be noted that Gates was not alone in his desire to close the project - he was supported by Senator McCain, who many times criticized the high cost of F-22. In addition, "here and there, the forecast that one of the strategic competitors of the USA, China, would not bring its analogue up to the middle of the 2020s, was slipping into the air," he writes.

“At the same time, China already has two fighters, one of which, J-20, entered service even before the last F-22 left the production hall,” the author states.

United States Air Force Chief Executive Michael Moseley was against the closure of the program, he said that such a move "will be one of the most strategically ill-considered decisions taken in the last 20-25 years."
Photos used:
REUTERS / US Navy / Handout via Reuters
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  1. Stiletto
    Stiletto 28 September 2015 15: 42 New
    +3
    A plain hint about “give money” to the F-22. In fact, it would be worth covering both programs ...
    1. Bombardier
      Bombardier 28 September 2015 15: 44 New
      26
      Quote: Stiletto
      A plain hint about “give money” to the F-22. In fact, it would be worth covering both programs ...


      no no no no let them keep releasing F-35
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 28 September 2015 15: 47 New
        +5
        Quote: Bombardier

        no no no no let them keep releasing F-35

        They release.
        US Fighter F-35B Lightning II 31.07 fighter. 2015 of the year received the status of initial operational readiness. Currently, 10 machines are 121 ibae based on AB Yuma, pc. Arizona, ready for deployment and fighting anywhere in the world.
        The decision was made based on the results of the 5-day squadron alert
        The 121 squadron became the 1th combat ready squadron in military history, armed with F-35 fighter planes. F-35B adopted in the configuration version of Block 2B.
        The U.S. ILC has 50 trained pilots and about 500 maintenance technicians to support the autonomous deployment of the F-35B.
        The next, after the 121th squadron, having reached the status of initial operational readiness with the F-35B, will be the 211th strike squadron, currently armed with the AV-8B, this will happen according to plans in 2015f. In 2018, the F-35B will rearm 311 ibae.
        1. Kostyar
          Kostyar 28 September 2015 16: 00 New
          +8
          In the Pentagon they steal like nowhere else in the world, they need to be sent to the help of our corrupt officials from the government (liberals, shit, column 5 and other shelupon) to pick up pranks and sit down at the zombie man ..... and enjoy the accelerated collapse of the "exceptional" Fushington !! !!
          1. ty60
            ty60 28 September 2015 16: 20 New
            +5
            To send Tolik Taburetkin with the existing team, at the same time to allow Vasilyeva to leave with a subsequent non-return
            1. Awaz
              Awaz 28 September 2015 21: 59 New
              +2
              our duck and learned from them. All modern schemes of theft of the budget and all that is possible came to us with the advent of specialists from the USA and graduated from American higher education institutions of our officials.
              1. supertiger21
                supertiger21 28 September 2015 23: 37 New
                +1
                Having not built the minimum number of F-22 Raptor tested to maintain "air superiority" (only 243 were built instead of 187 aircraft), the Pentagon hastened to announce their replacement with the "long-suffering" F-35, the founder of the military-oriented blog Foxtrot writes in his article Alpha »Tyler Rogway. The article is quoted by RIA Novosti.


                F-35 was never created and was not intended as a replacement for the F-22, but is its complement. Around the same complement each other Su-27 and MiG-29.
        2. Altona
          Altona 28 September 2015 17: 31 New
          +3
          Quote: Aaron Zawi
          They release.

          ---------------------
          Well, if you can still agree with versions A and C, then what for do you need version B? Why a separate version of the "penguin" for the Marine Corps, with a lift fan inside? The plane is of very dubious combat value ... It is because of it that the main dispute and the "eversion of the fur out" ... It is needed only in the amount of 500 copies like ...
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 28 September 2015 17: 40 New
            +2
            Quote: Altona
            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            They release.

            ---------------------
            Well, if you can still agree with versions A and C, then what for do you need version B? Why a separate version of the "penguin" for the Marine Corps, with a lift fan inside? The plane is of very dubious combat value ... It is because of it that the main dispute and the "eversion of the fur out" ... It is needed only in the amount of 500 copies like ...

            Well, I wanted to. Perhaps it was hoped that the project would go easier. But in the end, with all the difficulties, the project was implemented. And it was the KMP that put into service the first combat-ready squadron.
            1. Altona
              Altona 28 September 2015 18: 18 New
              +3
              Quote: Aaron Zawi
              Well, I wanted to. Perhaps it was hoped that the project would go easier. But in the end, with all the difficulties, the project was implemented. And it was the KMP that put into service the first combat-ready squadron.

              ----------------------
              The point is that, as they say in many articles, the Marine Corps wants to have its own wing on small aircraft carriers, also version B will be delivered to the allies for their wretched aircraft carriers in order to replace the Harriers, this is one English vessel and one Italian ... And Now the bottom line is that the ILC will not go into battle alone with its equipment, it will still be supported by the fleet with its "nimits" and "geraldfords", where a powerful air wing and launch from a catapult ... And version B stupidly eats fuel on take-off , has a smaller combat radius and a number of other shortcomings ... That's basically the essence of the issue, and of course, except for "well wanted", there are no more arguments ...
          2. vadsonen
            vadsonen 28 September 2015 18: 17 New
            +2
            Well, if you can still agree with versions A and C, then you need version B

            Version B for aircraft carriers without a catapult.
            1. Altona
              Altona 28 September 2015 19: 33 New
              +2
              Quote: vadsonen
              Version B for aircraft carriers without a catapult.

              -----------------------
              Damn ... And what am I writing about? I am writing about the fact that KMP landing craft with a poor air wing and a short deck will support senior fleet ships with a powerful air group launched from the catpult ... And therefore, flawed small KMP aircraft carriers with GDP aircraft are unlikely to be needed ...
              1. supertiger21
                supertiger21 28 September 2015 23: 51 New
                +1
                Quote: Altona
                Quote: vadsonen
                Version B for aircraft carriers without a catapult.

                -----------------------
                Damn ... And what am I writing about? I am writing about the fact that KMP landing craft with a poor air wing and a short deck will support senior fleet ships with a powerful air group launched from the catpult ... And therefore, flawed small KMP aircraft carriers with GDP aircraft are unlikely to be needed ...


                Well, for aircraft carriers there is a modification of the F-35C with folding wings and a brake hook. Well, the F-35B, although it has the potential of GDP, will not use them, because it's too fuel-consuming. Shortened takeoff and landing will be used.
          3. The comment was deleted.
      2. bulvas
        bulvas 28 September 2015 15: 49 New
        +3
        So the Chinese 5 generation is already in service?
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 28 September 2015 16: 00 New
          +4
          Quote: bulvas
          So the Chinese 5 generation is already in service?

          In developing. And what do you want? Super Power. (Without quotes).
          1. bulvas
            bulvas 28 September 2015 16: 11 New
            +2
            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            And what do you want?


            I don’t want anything, I didn’t understand in the article here:

            “At the same time, China already has two fighters, one of which, J-20, entered service even before the last F-22 left the production hall,” the author states.


            1. supertiger21
              supertiger21 28 September 2015 23: 53 New
              +1
              Quote: bulvas
              “At the same time, China already has two fighters, one of which, J-20, entered service even before the last F-22 left the production hall,” the author states.


              No more than rumors) no
          2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. KazaK Bo
        KazaK Bo 28 September 2015 16: 42 New
        +7
        Bombardier
        no no no no let them keep releasing F-35

        Your desire and hidden sarcasm are understandable, I’m also for the RAW 35 to be in the arsenal of the US Air Force as it is now, but ... But there are revision programs ... and taking the plane in this design configuration .. .will certainly be developed and adopted lists of improvements ... which will bring the ideas embodied in this product to the end.
        They do the same in our aircraft industry ... A couple of days ago there was a sharp discussion on the T-50 ... I remembered there the Tu 160 ... Like, it was RAW when it was put into service ... Nothing ... finalized and now the Tu 160 is the best bomber in the world ... So the T-50 will be finalized ... He began his army life as an aircraft mechanic on the R \ L SIGHT "EAGLE" for the Yak 28P ... So, .. for 7 years from the start of production of this aircraft , then there were already 12 improvements ....
        The world does not stand still! It is constantly being improved ... and we should not be glad that the plane has not been finalized yet ... but think .. HOW WE WILL RESIST IT WITHIN 2-5 YEARS, WHEN IT WILL BE WORKED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PARAMETERS laid down in ITS DESIGN ...
        1. yehat
          yehat 28 September 2015 17: 03 New
          0
          I am for the F-35 to remain only with the United States. Let them do it for themselves.
        2. Mikhail Krapivin
          Mikhail Krapivin 28 September 2015 18: 58 New
          0
          It's like that. But time is gold, especially for Americans, and especially in this case. While they will modify a not very successful aircraft, they will lose both time and resources. And there we are stroking, or China, we’ll sit on their tail, or even move them. And this is good news :)
        3. Garris199
          Garris199 29 September 2015 01: 07 New
          +1
          Quote: KazaK Bo
          They do the same in our aircraft industry ...

          I agree. SU-34 is a vivid example of this.
        4. zyablik.olga
          zyablik.olga 29 September 2015 02: 32 New
          +2
          Quote: KazaK Bo
          HOW WE WILL CONTAIN IT WITHIN 2-5 YEARS, WHEN IT WILL BE DEVELOPED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PARAMETERS DESIGNED IN ITS CONSTRUCTION ...

          This is exactly yes And the Pentagon has miscalculated or not, time will tell, in any case, you should not give out what you want for reality.
    2. hydrox
      hydrox 28 September 2015 15: 49 New
      -3
      With such a cost of the device, it is more profitable for them to buy a Su-35 in Russia than to wallow on their der for the rest ...
      Or maybe sell them all the used MiG-29s for $ 3 million apiece?
      I think that they will not be able to learn to fly a Su-35 ... laughing
    3. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 28 September 2015 15: 59 New
      +4
      Quote: Stiletto
      A plain hint about “give money” to the F-22. In fact, it would be worth covering both programs ...

      Well this is unlikely. Moreover, the F-22 production line is not closed, but mothballed. If necessary, LM can begin production of this machine within four months. Technologies have been developed. Trained staff available. It would be funding.
      1. tomket
        tomket 28 September 2015 16: 16 New
        +5
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        Technologies have been developed. Trained staff available. It would be funding.

        There is an opinion that the manic perseverance with which they finish the F-35 is caused by the fact that the Air Force did not get exactly what they wanted in the person of the F-22. There are many aspects, among which the thrust-weight ratio does not correspond to the declared, the range does not correspond to the declared, the speed is limited by the air intakes, "drawdown" when using the thrust vector, EPR, etc.
        1. dauria
          dauria 28 September 2015 17: 29 New
          +2
          that the manic persistence with which they finish the F-35 is due to the fact that the Air Force received in the person of the F-22 not quite what they wanted.


          These are aircraft for various purposes. One in addition to another. What we call a fighter-bomber (from the old MiG-27, Su-17) and a front-line bomber, capturing the operational depth (Su-24, Su-34).
          An ambitious program (at first, the VTOL requirement seemed ridiculous) But they really solved it perfectly without sacrificing any configuration.
          Options A of the “usual” fighter, C-deck for aircraft carriers, B - short take-off and vertical landing.
          The share of common structural elements of all three aircraft is about 80%.
          New avionics are so serious that I want to think that ours have not overslept all these years.
      2. Beitari
        Beitari 28 September 2015 17: 38 New
        +4
        Unfortunately, you are mistaken ... The F-22 production line is closed. Resuming production costs 2 billion of money.
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 28 September 2015 19: 24 New
          +2
          Quote: Beitari
          Unfortunately, you are mistaken ... The F-22 production line is closed. Resuming production costs 2 billion of money.

          No frozen.
          http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/everyone-who-wanted-more-f-22s-is-being-proven-
          right-xnumx
          1. VseDoFeNi
            VseDoFeNi 28 September 2015 20: 55 New
            -2
            Who cares? The USA has no money, there are debts, but no money. And capitalism is almost over. In an interesting time we live.
      3. fox21h
        fox21h 28 September 2015 21: 52 New
        +1
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        Quote: Stiletto
        A plain hint about “give money” to the F-22. In fact, it would be worth covering both programs ...

        Well this is unlikely. Moreover, the F-22 production line is not closed, but mothballed. If necessary, LM can begin production of this machine within four months. Technologies have been developed. Trained staff available. It would be funding.

        The line is mothballed, but where will they get accessories for electronics? These processors are no longer manufactured by other components, they will have to shovel all the electronics, and then P.O., and then test and refinement, which will turn out in the end, it's me that I can’t just turn on the toggle switch, there’ll be a hemorrhoids more than bring to mind F-35
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 28 September 2015 22: 23 New
          +2
          Quote: fox21h

          The line is mothballed, but where will they get accessories for electronics? These processors are no longer manufactured by other components, they will have to shovel all the electronics, and then P.O., and then test and refinement, which will turn out in the end, it's me that I can’t just turn on the toggle switch, there’ll be a hemorrhoids more than bring to mind F-35

          So long ago they are shoveling. Block-2 is not only a complete software update. LM has pre-production F-22 machines and works on all the necessary degrees of modernization with new components. Such projects are not abandoned.
    4. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith 28 September 2015 15: 59 New
      +8
      Everything is developing normally! I think you need to sell all the F-15s and F-16s and use this money to buy another hundred F-35s! wassat
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 28 September 2015 16: 44 New
        +2
        Quote: Lord of the Sith
        Everything is developing normally! I think you need to sell all the F-15s and F-16s and use this money to buy another hundred F-35s!

        wassat You give the closure of the program and the release of the F-35 and the release of the 6th generation supernova aircraft F-48! half a billion apiece! on mercury-magnetic engines with a laser gun!
        1. mojohed2012
          mojohed2012 28 September 2015 17: 33 New
          +1
          Let’s develop Starfighter in Russia (all-round (air-atmosphere / airless space)) manned flying complex-platform from which you can make: a fighter-interceptor that can fight airplanes in airborne missions at all altitudes, knocking down satellites in the near space and counteracting like-like ; A bomber / attack aircraft that can bomb from any altitude in the atmosphere or from space?
          That would be cool ... They’ll finish the F-35, but this MIRACLE took off at our place ... However, dreams ...
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 28 September 2015 17: 40 New
            +2
            Quote: mojohed2012
            Give us the development in Russia of Starfighter (all-medium (air-atmosphere / airless space)) of a manned flying complex-platform,

            lol can we immediately blow out the Death Star so that the enemies will immediately pile up?
          2. andrewkor
            andrewkor 29 September 2015 18: 40 New
            0
            there was already one Starfighter - the F-104 was called. One German pilot in the 60s defeated 3 in one day and stayed alive!
      2. mojohed2012
        mojohed2012 28 September 2015 17: 28 New
        0
        If in NATO from fighter-bomber / attack aircraft only the "universal" F-35 remains, and they write off: A-10; F-14 (in the ILC), F-15, F-16, then other countries, having, albeit less advanced, but multi-type aircraft, each of which is tailored to a specific task, will be more effective in confronting the all-weather, all-inclusive, all-inclusive
        -Fundingly super-wunderwafers F-35.
        1. supertiger21
          supertiger21 29 September 2015 00: 03 New
          +1
          Quote: mojohed2012
          If only "universal" F-35 remains in NATO from fighter-bomber / attack aircraft,


          Well, the F-35 is not one type of aircraft, but three, in different basic purposes: A, B, C.

          Quote: mojohed2012
          and they will write off the scrap: A-10; F-14 (in KMP), F-15, F-16, then other countries, having, albeit less advanced, but multi-type aircraft, each of which is geared to a specific task, will be more effective in confronting the all-weather, all-weather-all-intercepting - Unbelievably super-wunderwafers F-35.


          For the most part I agree BUT:

          Quote: mojohed2012
          F-14 (in KMP),


          The F-14 was discontinued in 2006 and replaced with the F / A-18 Super Hornet.
    5. Simon
      Simon 28 September 2015 16: 25 New
      0
      Do not worry! Other programs will close soon. laughing
    6. marlin1203
      marlin1203 28 September 2015 17: 00 New
      -1
      Eeeeeh we would have to finance them ... laughing
    7. Beitari
      Beitari 28 September 2015 17: 36 New
      +2
      There is no doubt that the closure of the F-22 program is a tragic mistake for the US Air Force, and not only for the US, but also for our Air Force. In addition to the radius of action and the presence of an advanced pilot helmet, the F-35 is inferior to the F-22 in all positions, ideally they should complement each other in a 1: 4 ratio, just like the F-15 and F-16.
    8. War and Peace
      War and Peace 28 September 2015 17: 39 New
      0
      if you throw out the engine tossing out of the f35go, this will add lightness to the aircraft, and therefore maneuverability, again the bomb compartments can be expanded. In such a truncated form, the aircraft will win in the direction of the 5th generation, but the Pentagon will not do that ...
      1. maiman61
        maiman61 28 September 2015 18: 45 New
        +1
        And it’s better to throw the pilot away, so they won’t even crash the plane!
      2. supertiger21
        supertiger21 29 September 2015 00: 07 New
        0
        Quote: war and peace
        if you throw out the engine tossing out of the f35go, this will add lightness to the aircraft, and therefore maneuverability, again the bomb compartments can be expanded. In such a truncated form, the aircraft will win in the direction of the 5th generation, but the Pentagon will not do that ...


        "Flip engine" on the F-35B only. On other versions of the “Penguin” there is no such fan, and maneuverability is really better.
    9. pilot8878
      pilot8878 28 September 2015 18: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: Stiletto
      In fact, it would be worth covering both programs ...

      In fact, it would be worthwhile to “cover up” the United States. To "disinfection" ...
  2. oleg-gr
    oleg-gr 28 September 2015 15: 44 New
    +1
    The more mess in the American corridors of power, the faster competitors will catch up and overtake them with the 5th and 6th generation of aircraft.
  3. prabiz
    prabiz 28 September 2015 15: 45 New
    0
    Justification for the injection of new funds.
  4. vovanpain
    vovanpain 28 September 2015 15: 45 New
    +9
    Well, what do you think, where McCain was there and cut the budget. Although to me your money is absolutely on the drum.
  5. Maksus
    Maksus 28 September 2015 15: 46 New
    +2
    The Pentagon may have miscalculated, but there is no Boeing. There rather ofigeli from profit. And now Americans can’t get anywhere from F-35, they still haven’t earned money on their own island)
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 28 September 2015 16: 01 New
      +3
      Quote: Maksus
      The Pentagon may have miscalculated, but there is no Boeing. There rather ofigeli from profit. And now Americans can’t get anywhere from F-35, they still haven’t earned money on their own island)

      What does Boeing have to do with it? request He’s just in flight.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Maksus
        Maksus 28 September 2015 16: 39 New
        0
        Sorry, Lockheed Martin, of course!
    2. garrikz
      garrikz 28 September 2015 16: 15 New
      +1
      Yes, just like from the M-16 at the time.
  6. Dezinto
    Dezinto 28 September 2015 15: 46 New
    +6
    "The Pentagon hastened to announce the replacement of their" long-suffering "F-35"



  7. JonnyT
    JonnyT 28 September 2015 15: 48 New
    0
    here is an example of one of the flaws of the capitalist model of the state. Profit comes to the fore, not the technical efficiency of the final product
    1. Das Boot
      Das Boot 28 September 2015 16: 13 New
      0
      Quote: JonnyT
      Profit comes to the fore, not the technical efficiency of the final product

      Are you serious?
      1. JonnyT
        JonnyT 28 September 2015 16: 34 New
        0
        Quote: Das Boot
        Are you serious?

        Yes. What surprises you?
        1. Das Boot
          Das Boot 28 September 2015 20: 31 New
          +2
          Quote: JonnyT
          Yes. What surprises you?

          nothing. On VO and not such can be read.
          1. JonnyT
            JonnyT 29 September 2015 09: 53 New
            0
            So a comparison of the cost of developing American and Soviet weapons, approximately the same in technical characteristics, doesn’t surprise you either ?????
            Indeed, in and not so can be read)))
  8. tomket
    tomket 28 September 2015 15: 52 New
    +3
    I am glad that along with the USA almost all allies got into the F-35 program. Including Israel. It will be very interesting when the brave pilots of the IDF begin to drive the Arabs in the "Typhoons" and "Rafaly".
    1. X
      X Y Z 28 September 2015 16: 02 New
      +4
      The most pleasant thing is to watch them wait for him and covet, like something perfect and invincible. How they praise him. A real American fighter! This is especially felt in the posts of colleagues from Israel. Wait, will come soon ...
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 28 September 2015 19: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: XYZ
        The most pleasant thing is to watch them wait for him and covet, like something perfect and invincible. How they praise him. A real American fighter! This is especially felt in the posts of colleagues from Israel. Wait, coming soon.]

        Well, not so soon. But...
        The first F35 adir will arrive in December 2016. By the end of 2017, 11 aircraft should arrive. Subsequently, 6 units. per year until 33 so far ordered. Israeli specialists, aviation engineers and technicians, have long been in the United States and will stay there for a long time. In the second half of 2016, the training of Israeli combat pilots in the states will begin. Plans for a possible expansion of the fleet to four squadrons, accidentally or intentionally, were voiced by the commander of the first 140th escort. "Golden Eagle", he is also an officer-manager of the program p / pc Yotam. He noted that f35 “adir” is a plane of “conquering airspace” with great potential, and not just “victories in air battles”. In his opinion, the difference between the f35 adir and planes of previous generations, as between the first Nokia and the modern iPhone ...
        1. supertiger21
          supertiger21 29 September 2015 10: 20 New
          0
          Quote: tomket
          I am glad that along with the USA almost all allies got into the F-35 program. Including Israel. It will be very interesting when the brave pilots of the IDF begin to drive the Arabs in the "Typhoons" and "Rafaly".

          Quote: XYZ
          The most pleasant thing is to watch them wait for him and covet, like something perfect and invincible. How they praise him. A real American fighter! This is especially felt in the posts of colleagues from Israel. Wait, will come soon ...


          I do not know about you, but personally, I would not underestimate the pilots of the Israeli Air Force. They know how to fight well (including and conduct air battles) even on the most ...... fighter jets. Fighting on Mirages, Nesher and Phantoms, they carried the pilots of the Arab Air Force, even those who had a modern MiG-21 at that time. The weaknesses of the F-35 may well be offset by their skill and experience. request
    2. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 28 September 2015 16: 10 New
      +2
      Quote: tomket
      I am glad that along with the USA almost all allies got into the F-35 program. Including Israel. It will be very interesting when the brave pilots of the IDF begin to drive the Arabs in the "Typhoons" and "Rafaly".

      What to do? hi Our pilots, and they are stupid from your point of view, are shaking the government to increase the order.
      The first will receive the F-35I 140-I and 116-I squadron in Nevatim. Acquisition of fighters for the third and fourth squadrons is under consideration
      .
      1. tomket
        tomket 28 September 2015 16: 25 New
        +1
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        and they are stupid from your point of view

        brave and stupid for you synonyms?) However!)
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        shaking the government to increase the order.

        Good luck) Do you definitely have no censorship there? Suddenly, you do not know how the “Typhoons” and f-22 fights ended. But f-35 is far from f-22)))))
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 28 September 2015 16: 48 New
          +1
          Quote: tomket

          Good luck) Do you definitely have no censorship there? Suddenly, you do not know how the “Typhoons” and f-22 fights ended. But f-35 is far from f-22)))))

          on cannons? Well, how did you read it. I will tell you even more than that, he will most likely lose one-on-one both to MIGs and F15 / 16. But the fact is that before BVB there is also DVB, where the advantage is for those machines that were the first to notice the enemy and the first to attack. Then, before the cannon duel, they operate medium- and short-range missiles. According to experts, even the aircraft of the 4 ++ generation have a chance to join the cannon duel of less than 1%.
      2. ty60
        ty60 28 September 2015 16: 26 New
        +1
        I wouldn’t talk like that about pilots. However, it’s not they who are the officials from the Ministry of Defense. hi
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 28 September 2015 17: 07 New
          +2
          Quote: ty60
          I wouldn’t talk like that about pilots. However, it’s not they who are the officials from the Ministry of Defense. hi

          I don’t know how it is with you, but without the decision of the pilots of the test center, the Air Force command will not even consider the purchase. And given that we have 2 / 3 pilots reservists, they do not experience any reverence for the bosses in terms of career growth.
  9. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 28 September 2015 15: 54 New
    +2
    We still have the An-2 .... And a lot of private (renovated) ... There you go!
  10. panfil
    panfil 28 September 2015 16: 15 New
    15
    A small quote: "Production of combat and combat training aircraft for the Russian Air Force and Navy:
    until 2009 - less than 10 pieces per year.
    2010 - 13 pcs.
    2011 - 30 pcs.
    2012 - 37 pcs.
    2013 - 69 pcs.
    2014 - about 90 pcs. (forecast)
    2015 - more than 100 pcs. (forecast)
    Thus, Russia has now reached a production volume of 90 aircraft per year only for itself, not counting export contracts (such as the supply of Su-30MKI aircraft sets for India).
    Given the enormous complexity of modern multifunctional combat aircraft systems like the Su-30SM, Su-35S, Su-34 - the production of 90-100 aircraft a year is a lot. No more combat aircraft are currently produced by any country in the world, not even the United States.
    In the United States, they now produce from combat jet aircraft:
    - F-16, no more than 12−18 units per year (all for export);
    - F-18, about 40−47 pieces per year:
    - F-15 build 12 pieces a year, all for Saudi Arabia (if the Saudis cancel the order, the release of F-15 will completely cease).
    For F-35 the situation is as follows. So far, the fighter-bomber advertised by the Americans is building only a few pieces a year. In 2014, contracts were signed for their future release at a pace of approximately 29 units per year. But a contract is not production yet. Most of the F-35 is intended for export, and potential customers today have many complaints about both the combat and operational qualities of the F-35, and the cost of this machine. It still remains very "raw" and Lockheed Martin has not been able to "bring it to mind" for many years.
    Total: the production of military aircraft in the United States is now not more than 80 units per year. Of these, for their own army - only 47-50 vehicles annually. This is less than in Russia, where 90 pieces are produced only for themselves, plus export orders. "
    We need to continue in the same vein and then after 5 years there will already be a more or less parity situation (given the fact that the United States now has a significant superiority in the number of combat aircraft).
    1. Mikhail Krapivin
      Mikhail Krapivin 28 September 2015 19: 05 New
      0
      Very informative and helpful, thanks for the info. And pleasantly pleased with the number of aircraft we produce, God forbid.
    2. max702
      max702 28 September 2015 23: 20 New
      +1
      All this is good, especially the table, but you should not forget the potential of the adversaries, they have the possibility of producing up to two thousand a year in technological plans. As an example, let me tell you the story MRAPOV mattresses in Afghanistan were needed and please develop and make them in a year thousands of pieces .. And we have there many different "typhoons" of gods go around there and how many are there in the troops? So far, the United States and comrades do not need to tear the veins so they are slowly and sawing at the same time bringing to mind ..
    3. silver_roman
      silver_roman 29 September 2015 15: 14 New
      0
      Quote: panfil
      production of 90-100 cars a year is a lot. No more combat aircraft are currently produced by any country in the world, not even the United States.

      I see no reason for pride.
      most of the aircraft that you listed from our Air Force have been well-developed for a long time,
      hence the growth in the number of cars per year.
      I wonder how much we can produce say T-50 ?!

      Their number of manufactured aircraft does not speak about their capabilities, but about their needs for new aircraft. why do they need so many airplanes if they have even more on conservation.

      I am a huge fan of our Air Force, but we are sooooo far from the US military-industrial complex! I do not want to upset anyone, but I do not like unjustified joy!
  11. Good cat
    Good cat 28 September 2015 16: 25 New
    +1
    "The analyst notes that" so far, the Raptors have proven their worth in the air, .. "
    have they already proved it?
    1. tomket
      tomket 28 September 2015 16: 29 New
      0
      Quote: Good cat
      "The analyst notes that" so far, the Raptors have proven their worth in the air, .. "
      have they already proved it?

      Well, so far they have proven their worth in the press). When the brave pilots told how they tore the f-16, f-15 and f-18 in hundreds. True, when they began to conduct training fights with the "typhoons" and "Rafals", it turned out that they can speak almost on equal terms.
  12. Styx
    Styx 28 September 2015 16: 28 New
    0
    "The number of F-22 Raptor tested (instead of 243 aircraft, only 187 were built)"

    Voooot, golden words !!! Honey gingerbread to the one who dug this info, and then FU-35, and FU-35 .... One rumble on the theme of FU-35 and its fantastic fantastic abundance, but in fact we have, well, or we don’t have the fact that even F -22 laughing Oh, these tales, oh, these tales ....
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. varela
    varela 28 September 2015 16: 35 New
    -5
    The fact that "they" something is going wrong, of course pleases, but what we can boast of ourselves?
    How many years the army and the treasury have been plundered, and no one has been punished.
    A bunch of high-profile floodlights, in fact dummies.
    On the topic of the 5th generation - our aircraft, T-50, where is it?
    How many copies of it do we have?
    Prototypes and unit production.
    And its pluses before the F-35 are still in question, it was also praised first, only when it went to the troops, the minuses were revealed.
    Let's look at the reaction of our pilots to serial PAK FA.
    And then the laughter may be bad ...
    1. tomket
      tomket 28 September 2015 16: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: varela
      , he was also praised first, only when he went into the army, the minuses were revealed.

      You want to say that the problems when firing a cannon were revealed only in mass production? Or the problem of the high temperature of the jet stream that burned through the deck? Let's stamp a hundred planes, and then it turns out that it is limitedly operational like LaGG-3, for example. Who will feel better from this? Pilots who go into battle on the "varnished guaranteed" ???
      1. varela
        varela 2 October 2015 16: 18 New
        0
        If it does not, I’ll explain.
        And then here pseudo patriots only know how to minus, there is a word against their "urry!" to tell.
        The problems were not revealed in mass production.
        With him, and with the expansion of the number of "users", the problems were made public, it was already impossible to keep silent in the hope of fixing them in the future.
        But only.
        The T-50 is exactly the same, so far we only know the official official news.
        And also the fact that there are very few of them, and in the near future there will not be many.
        Only because of this I called for restraint in evaluating their failures and our achievements.
        And then we love in words to throw our hats on, and then we have to wash ourselves with blood ...
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. Lecha57
    Lecha57 28 September 2015 16: 37 New
    +1
    Whatever the case, there will never be any Russian avionics competitors. Let argue to hitchhike, as other designers, and some "well-wishers."
  17. CRASH
    CRASH 28 September 2015 16: 38 New
    +3


    Don’t say that for its time, the F22 is very cool, it has electronics cost from our entire AvtoVAZ plant, but it lost a competitor in the USSR and stopped developing, now the 7th generation would probably fly if it weren’t for the collapse, competition sensible thing. And f35 is a faint burp and pale shadow f22.
    PS in a dog dump a raptor blew rafal.
    1. Mikhail Krapivin
      Mikhail Krapivin 28 September 2015 19: 15 New
      +3
      Non-resident there were overloads, judging by the pilot's breathing and groans. Tough profession ...
      1. Garris199
        Garris199 29 September 2015 01: 17 New
        0
        Right The future belongs to drones.
  18. roskot
    roskot 28 September 2015 16: 39 New
    0
    Lipetsk air center over Victory Square on Victory Day.
  19. Engineer
    Engineer 28 September 2015 16: 39 New
    0
    Is this when the Americans wanted to replace the F-22 with the F-35? The U.S. Navy does not have an F-22 at all, if that. Airplanes of different classes. It’s the same as replacing the Su-27 with the Mig-29.
  20. North wind
    North wind 28 September 2015 16: 43 New
    0
    Quote: Stiletto
    A plain hint about “give money” to the F-22. In fact, it would be worth covering both programs ...

    Give a hint of money for a new program, give money to bring the plane to mind and give and give again
    The American military industry has already died. If earlier they didn’t produce bad weapons, right now they are stupidly cutting money and they need to pay for quality ...
  21. BlackDragon
    BlackDragon 28 September 2015 18: 01 New
    +1
    Expert: Pentagon grossly miscalculated, putting on the F-35

    specifically on which performance characteristics of the Pentagon rudely miscalculated? again, idle chatter without a hint of evidence, or at least for the sake of decounting the "miscalculations."
    As always, the Americans are “dumb”, but all the rest are just geniuses.
  22. Beitari
    Beitari 28 September 2015 18: 11 New
    -1
    Quote: XYZ
    The most pleasant thing is to watch them wait for him and covet, like something perfect and invincible. How they praise him. A real American fighter! This is especially felt in the posts of colleagues from Israel. Wait, will come soon ...



    We do not praise anything. It is clear that the F-22 is a cut above the level than the F-35. The only consolation is that the F-35 is much higher than Typhoon, Rafal and T-50 (lads, do not freak out and minus)
    1. tomket
      tomket 28 September 2015 22: 27 New
      +1
      Quote: Beitari
      . It is clear that the F-22 is a cut above the level than the F-35. The only consolation is that the F-35 is much higher than Typhoon, Rafal and T-50 (

      Well ... you're not at the Futurological Congress)))). to moderate your bold fantasies))))))
      1. BlackDragon
        BlackDragon 29 September 2015 00: 06 New
        0
        fantasies are when a prototype with Soviet engines, old missile weapons and a newly developed radar in a single execution is compared with someone else ...
    2. supertiger21
      supertiger21 29 September 2015 00: 14 New
      0
      Quote: Beitari
      F-35 is much higher than Typhoon, Rafal and T-50 (guys, do not freak out or minus)


      Higher than T-50 ??! belay
    3. SAG
      SAG 29 September 2015 00: 38 New
      0
      F-35 is much higher than Typhoon, Rafal and T-50 (guys, do not freak out or minus)
      Rzhunemagu))) Walk ischo !!!
  23. nazar_0753
    nazar_0753 28 September 2015 18: 24 New
    +1
    Quote: panfil
    A small quote: "Production of combat and combat training aircraft for the Russian Air Force and Navy:
    2013 - 69 pcs.
    2014 - about 90 pcs. (forecast)
    2015 - more than 100 pcs. (forecast)
    Thus, Russia has now reached a production volume of 90 aircraft per year only for itself, not counting export contracts (such as the supply of Su-30MKI aircraft sets for India).
    Given the enormous complexity of modern multifunctional combat aircraft systems like the Su-30SM, Su-35S, Su-34 - the production of 90-100 aircraft a year is a lot. No more combat aircraft are currently produced by any country in the world, not even the United States.
    In the United States, they now produce from combat jet aircraft:
    - F-16, no more than 12−18 units per year (all for export);
    - F-18, about 40−47 pieces per year:
    - F-15 build 12 pieces a year, all for Saudi Arabia (if the Saudis cancel the order, the release of F-15 will completely cease).
    For F-35 the situation is as follows. So far, the fighter-bomber advertised by the Americans is building only a few pieces a year. In 2014, contracts were signed for their future release at a pace of approximately 29 units per year. But a contract is not production yet. Most of the F-35 is intended for export, and potential customers today have many complaints about both the combat and operational qualities of the F-35, and the cost of this machine. It still remains very "raw" and Lockheed Martin has not been able to "bring it to mind" for many years.
    Total: the production of military aircraft in the United States is now not more than 80 units per year. Of these, for their own army - only 47-50 vehicles annually. This is less than in Russia, where 90 pieces are produced only for themselves, plus export orders. "
    We need to continue in the same vein and then after 5 years there will already be a more or less parity situation (given the fact that the United States now has a significant superiority in the number of combat aircraft).

    I do not want to seem pessimistic, but with the ratio of the number of our generation 5 and 4 ++ aircraft, the picture is not very pleasant. How many 5 generation aircraft do we currently have? 3. How many of them are NOT demonstration, but combat samples? A little less than one. As the T-50 would not exceed the F-35 and F-22, he would not be able to win if the ratio was 1: 100, 1:50, or at least 1:15.
    According to him, “Gates’s proposals came at a time when the price of experimental F-22s began to plummet.” So, “in the last batch of 60 fighters, one plane could cost $ 137 million - about the same now costs an“ affordable ”F-35A,” Roguey notes.

    But the scale of the kickbacks in the Pentagon, it must have been just space ones, just abandoned the F-22 because of the high cost, and such a generation of “5--” received for a not much lower price winked
  24. kotvov
    kotvov 28 September 2015 18: 29 New
    +1
    that the F-35 is much higher than Typhoon, Rafal and T-50 (lads, do not freak out or minus ,,
    Do you have any evidence? Or just because, because American?
    1. The comment was deleted.
  25. Smoke
    Smoke 28 September 2015 19: 04 New
    +2
    In fairness, it should be noted that Gates in his desire to close the project was not alone - he was supported by Senator McCain, who criticized the high cost of the F-22 many times


    Without a doubt, this is Uncle Vova paid McCain the closure of the Raptor project - they have exceptional democracy there, orlt))
  26. The comment was deleted.