Military Review

Plasma "stealth" - our response to the American "invisible"

95
Plasma "stealth" - our response to the American "invisible"



Below, the bony ridges of the chains of the great Hindu Kush ridge, the “Hindu murderer,” flashed. The ranks of rocky treeless mountains are strictly parallel to the main ridge. Artsybashev peered into the horizon. There, in front, the main ridge of shining peaks should rise, and the on-board radar, shining green, showed this great wall.

"Hannibal is at the gate!" This meant that the group was already in place, and the object was in sight. Artsybashev moved the lever on the console, and only his instinct told him that he had earned a hundred kilogram plasma generator in the nose of the car. After a few seconds, the MiG was shrouded in a bluish haze.

At that moment, his mark disappeared from the radar screens of the Kabul aeronautical station and even from the indicators of the powerful A-50. Four aircraft at once melted in space, as if disappearing in the next "Bermuda Triangle" ...


It is difficult to say who was the author of the idea of ​​plasma stealth generators, but Maxim Kalashnikov (whose passage became an epigraph to the article) was not the first. The idea quickly penetrated into the masses and firmly captured the minds.

To understand how plasma stealth works, you need to go back a hundred years to the past.

1919 year. J. Hattinger obtains a patent for a plasma antenna. A device for emitting and receiving radio waves, which uses ionized gas instead of metallic conductors. Hattinger's invention was not immediately used. Only today, with the advent of plasma solid-state antennas, the possibility of creating high-speed data exchange networks (WiGig) has appeared.



The military, on the contrary, was interested in the possibility of forming plasma antennas in open space. The main task is to increase the secrecy of military equipment. Such a system has better noise immunity and is capable of inertia-free change of its parameters.

What do we have in the end?

Like any metal containing free electrons, ionized gas (plasma) has excellent electrical conductivity.

Now we turn to the basics of radar. Here, everything determines the principle of changing the direction of movement of radio waves when passing through a non-uniform medium. And the higher the electrical conductivity of the reflecting medium, the stronger the reflection of radio waves from the interface between two media.

A confirmation of the high reflectivity of plasma is the reflection of radio waves from the Earth’s ionosphere.

Someone may be confused by the mention of the reduced visibility of military equipment. But visibility is reduced not due to some effects when the plasma antenna is working, but at the time of its disconnection. Unlike metal structures, a plasma antenna exists only while the generator is operating. And then it disappears without a trace.

There is also the effect of a temporary loss of radio communication during the descent of spacecraft from orbit. But the connection does not disappear because of the invisibility of the spacecraft. These are commonplace interferences in the antenna devices of the descent vehicle itself, caused by strong electromagnetic fields. The descending capsule is visible from the Earth, but it is impossible to contact the astronauts sitting inside. If necessary, this problem can be solved in the original way. Engineers suggest using a plasma cloud itself as an antenna ... enveloping the descent vehicle.

Physics lesson. 9 class. Theme: “Plasma”

The fourth aggregate state of a substance is a partially or fully ionized gas. According to modern calculations, plasma is the phase state of 99,9% of baryonic matter in the Universe.

There are low-temperature (less than one million K) and high-temperature (over one million K) plasma.

1 000 000 K = 999 727 ° C.

It’s hard to imagine.

Suppose the creators of the “stealth generator” have chosen a low-temperature plasma, similar to that used in plasma torches (flame temperature ~ from 5000 to 30 000 ° C).


FOR ADMINISTRATIVE USE
The first (and last) flight of a top-secret “stealth plane” with a plasma generator installed on board

The luminosity and infrared signature of the “plasma cloud” will be similar to a meteorite, and the “stealth” itself is noticeable thousands of kilometers away.

Finally, a simple and well-known fact. 11 ... 72 km / s bursting into the Earth's atmosphere at meteorites (like the ICBM warheads) are well detected by radar, despite the plasma cloud that has enveloped them.

Of no less interest are ways to create and hold a “plasma screen” around an aircraft. How to create a plasma? How to apply for trim? How, in this case, to protect the trim of the aircraft from heating?

These problems are so great that there is no “100-kg generator under the nose fairing” here (hello to M. Kalashnikov).

Finally, none of the supporters of plasma “stealth screens” do not think about where to draw energy for a plasma cloud the size of an airplane!

Modern combat aircraft hardly have enough electricity to operate the avionics, electronic warfare systems and EDSU.

The power supply system of Su-27 fighters consists of two systems of direct and alternating current. The power sources are two integral drive-generator GP-21 (2 x 30 kW) and two brushless DC generators (2 x 12 kW).

As an example of a typical load - powerful radar Х035 “Irbis” (Su-35). Average radiated power - 5 kW, max. peak power - 20 kW.

For comparison: the simplest plasma incinerator (plasma torch in a limited volume of the melting chamber, t = 1500 ... 2000 ° С, performance 250 kg / h) has an installed power of the plasma torch 150 kW!

As a result, to create a plasma screen the size of an airplane, you will have to lift an entire nuclear power plant into the sky.



Then there will be a question about the safety of the aircraft equipment and about the threat to the life of the pilot due to exposure to high-intensity electromagnetic fields. However, thermal heating will put an end to this issue much faster.

Conclusion

Before rushing to drill thousands of holes in the casing and put a nuclear reactor on the wing, you must answer the question: FOR WHAT?

All attempts to find at least some information about the development and creation of "plasma stealth", as a rule, lead to the same fictional interview with the experts of the Research Center. Keldysh.

“We have decided to make“ invisible ”on technologies based on fundamentally different physical principles,” said the director of the Research Center. Keldysh Anatoly Koroteev. According to him, if you create a plasma screen near the aircraft, the plane becomes invisible to radar.

A simple example: if you throw a tennis ball at a wall, it will bounce off and come back. Similarly, the radar signal is reflected from the aircraft and returns to the receiving antenna. Aircraft detected. If the wall has angular edges and they are tilted in different directions, the ball will bounce off anywhere, but will not return back. Signal lost. American stealth is based on this principle. If to impose a wall with soft mats and throw a ball at them, then he will simply plop on it, lose energy and fall near the wall. Similarly, plasma formation absorbs radio wave energy. ”

- Legend from the Internet, 2010 year.

Dear scientist, Ph.D. Anatoly Sazonovich Koroteev, I would hardly have talked like this about the properties of plasma. Obviously, some kind of illiterate journalist invented a “duck” about a stealth generator. Plasma formation, by its very nature, is not capable of absorbing radio waves, as described in the quoted “interview”.

Due to its high electrical conductivity, the plasma cannot contribute to a decrease in radar visibility. When enabled, such a “cloud” will shine the brightest mark on the screens of all radars, and its visibility will be even higher than that of a full-metal aircraft. In all spectra without exception!

To say otherwise is the same as declaring that the earth is flat.

And it is a matter of considerable concern that the inhabitants of the most reading country in the world with universal 10-class education so easily believe in different nonsense.

Well, for now - the angularity of the shapes, parallelism of the faces, the use of radio-absorbing paints and composites. Sukhoi T-50 with stealth technology. The future of domestic aviation without plasma generators.



Based on the dispute on the site "IN" and comments from the visitor opus.
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  1. Bongo
    Bongo 28 September 2015 06: 34
    +19
    And it causes considerable concern that the inhabitants of the most reading country in the world with a universal 10-class education so easily believe in all kinds of nonsense.

    Oleg often has conflicting opinions and facts in his publications, but in this case it is difficult to disagree with this statement "+". yes
    1. crazyrom
      crazyrom 28 September 2015 06: 44
      +45
      The author knows physics one (0 in the school is not set, but in vain). To compare the plasma generator of an aircraft with an incinerator is the height of stupidity. The fact that there is a cold plasma, such as fluorescent lamps, is not known to the author at all. However, they perfectly exist, the temperature is 30-50 degrees. And the supergenerator is not needed on 150kW, it works great on 9 watts, on 15, and so on. In short, you need to learn materiel before writing articles.
      1. Ruslan
        Ruslan 28 September 2015 07: 43
        +12
        Kalashnikov even has a photo of this "marabou" generator in one of the books. kaptsov about. a strange person, if he found a text in a Kalashnikov's book, he could read the whole chapter, there is not much. there is no talk of any solar and high-temperature plasma. the principle is generally different there is described, he could insert it into his text and already parse it, and not write nonsense about thousands of degrees. there is no question of it.
        I myself do not really believe it, because if this generator works, why is it not used? because then all these dances with tambourines are not needed, for the invisibility of aircraft. but damn really want to believe that Russia has such devices and they work :)
        1. rosarioagro
          rosarioagro 28 September 2015 07: 47
          +5
          Quote: ruslan
          because if this generator works, why not use it?

          Well, it’s kind of explained a little about plasma, especially about its reflectivity in the radio range ...
        2. Nishtiag
          Nishtiag 2 October 2015 07: 55
          +10
          The author of the article, of course, is wrong. He clung to school physics and like a well-known ram. Sorry. Firstly, as crazyrom already wrote, there is no need to create plasma around the aircraft with a temperature of several thousand degrees. The aircraft try to protect themselves from heating on the contrary. This is utter nonsense. The author needs to once again answer himself the question of what exactly is this mysterious 4 aggregate state of matter called plasma. And it is very simple. A gas made up of ions, not atoms or molecules. And the temperature factor does not play any role. Ions can exist at any temperature. To whom it is very interesting, read about the principle of operation of various electric propulsion engines (electro-jet engines, they are also plasma, they are also ionic with slight differences). There are no thousand degrees there at all. To create a plasma, you do not have to make a sieve out of an airplane, another stupidity. Give a little voltage to the case and the gas is ionized around. Do not use this for two reasons. 1. Not only the plane on radars is lost, but also the connection with it. He becomes deaf and blind ... His radar also does not work. Why such a plane? ... Well, you get the point. 2. The plasma technology in our civilization is incomplete. Poor, we are still able to cope with plasma. That's all.
          Obviously, the author grabbed the top, did not particularly understand the great emotions that he could expose the long-term delusion for at least several thousand topwar readers, he wrote this article in one breath, choking on his thoughts and drumming on the buttons. Here is an impression.
          1. Gani
            Gani 2 October 2015 12: 39
            +2
            give the potential difference along the body - and the plane in motion will begin to emit electromagnetic waves. it’s just that school physics is not some kind of separate physics, but a basis, so to speak, of the beginning, and if at this level it’s already clear that by these principles it’s not a stealth, but a lighthouse ...
            Now, if that’s the point, when the DRLO radar sees the plane not as a point, but as a spot, for example, a nautical mile in diameter, or the plasma generator generates a plasmoid somewhere away from the plane according to the principle of thermal traps, it can to be...
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 2 October 2015 13: 58
              -2
              Yes, but the potential difference is a variable. This means that if it is increased to a certain level, then it creates a spin equivalently. Therefore, the case may collapse before you get the desired effect. Everything is not so simple, but your reasoning is already progress.
            2. Akuzenka
              Akuzenka 10 October 2015 00: 02
              0
              The only intelligible comment on how plasma works for LA.
              1. abrakadabre
                abrakadabre 29 March 2018 08: 09
                0
                Most simply do not really know physics. Even in school volume. Our plasma is a broadband emitter due to its nature - an excess of energy, due to which some part of the electrons is torn off from the nuclei. That is, the substance is ionized. The peak of radiation in the spectrum depends on its temperature. That's all. So I also don’t understand the statement about some kind of invisibility of the object in the plasma. How will he become invisible? It will not even need to be irradiated with a radar. Himself shines like a star. Moreover, I repeat, in a wide range.
          2. Dimon Krasnodar
            Dimon Krasnodar 24 May 2018 11: 16
            0
            Kaptsov thought in his story to surpass M. Kalashnikov)))) what you can only laugh
            Maxim, at least in the Broken Sword of Russia, everything is beautiful and clear ....

            And so here .... Zalipuha to chuckle)))
      2. Rus2012
        Rus2012 28 September 2015 09: 42
        +6
        Quote: crazyrom
        Comparing the plasma generator of an airplane with an incinerator is the height of stupidity. The fact that there is a cold plasma, for example, fluorescent lamps, the author does not know at all. However, they perfectly exist, the temperature is 30-50 degrees. And a super-generator on 150 kW is not needed, they work perfectly on 9 watts, and on 15, and so on. In short, you need to learn the materiel before writing articles.

        ... in general, everything is mixed up in the article, horseradish will break a leg! wassat
        I agree with you that the plasma is different. Met in his life and multi-kilowatt (similar to burning garbage) and low-power ...

        Although ... it seems to me that there is interest in the following question: what about the "northern lights" (not a cocktail of alcohol and sweet soda :) how does it look on the radar station - meter, deci and millimeter?
        There are also "thunderstorm radars", centimeter ones, for detecting thunderstorm, ionized clouds, to some extent "cold plasma". And the aircraft itself, especially a high-speed fighter, in some modes flies in an almost "cold plasma" ...

        In fact, a "plasma cloud" - it can be a dynamic formation that changes its essence - and there will also be a playing light on the screen ...

        I also came across the developers of the "plasmatron" for aircraft. Everything there is not easy at first glance ... Much of the "closed area". So, there is nothing to discuss here ...
        1. yehat
          yehat 28 September 2015 15: 14
          +2
          Quote: Rus2012
          the plasma generator of the aircraft can be a dynamic entity that changes the essence - and there will also be a flashing light on the screen ...

          as I understand it, Kalashnikov wrote about this - the generator does not make the plane invisible, but with uncertain motion parameters, which make it difficult to track the target or launch a missile at the right point.
      3. bastard
        bastard 28 September 2015 11: 20
        +7
        Quote: crazyrom
        for example, fluorescent lamps, the author does not know at all. However, they perfectly exist, the temperature is 30-50 degrees. And a 150kW supergenerator is not needed, they work perfectly at 9 watts, and at 15, and so on.

        The lights of St. Elmo (corona discharge), which caused superstitious horror among medieval sailors (and later became a good omen) - are also plasma. This phenomenon arose at the tips of masts and rails due to strong ionization of the atmosphere before a thunderstorm, for example. Sometimes not only the ends glowed, but also all the gears completely. Masts and gears did not ignite, although, nevertheless, also plasma.
        I won’t say anything about radio invisibility, not my specialty. hi
      4. Vadim237
        Vadim237 28 September 2015 12: 43
        0
        No generator is needed; supercapacitors in hanging pylons can be dispensed with.
      5. yehat
        yehat 28 September 2015 15: 11
        +1
        in addition:
        it’s not at all necessary to create a plasma field the size of an airplane
        moreover, it is not necessary to make a constant field - it is enough with some frequency
        change the properties of the volume in the front hemisphere, which automatically reduces the expected energy costs many times. These conclusions can be drawn by knowing physics at the 8th grade level.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 28 September 2015 15: 21
          -1
          Just don't say that! You cannot analyze high-potential and highly dynamic processes at the binary logic level. On which the mathematical analysis and understanding of the physics of processes are built. In modern physics, turbulent processes are hidden behind the words "chaos", while after turbulent there are other stages of energy levels.
      6. NEXUS
        NEXUS 28 September 2015 16: 55
        +1
        Quote: crazyrom
        The fact that there is a cold plasma

        That’s exactly what this was said in one entertaining program. And according to unverified data, they tried to run such ideas on the Swans. But, if I understood correctly, at that time there was one problem - THE FULL PLANE WASN’T WERE DRESSING IN THE PLASMA COCOON, TK FOR ANY REASON THE DEVICES REFUSED. Maybe they fixed such a problem ... little is known about this. hi
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 28 September 2015 17: 07
          -1
          I very often talk about the new quality of email. energy. At the present level, both knowledge and those devices that are applicable, the emergence of these "new" parameters of email. current causes an abnormal burst of energy pulse in all respects. And plasma is already a whole complex of such balanced parameters. Therefore, in that schematic of building an email. circuits and boards that are now used, devices do not just refuse to work. They pierce the body and individual nodes of these circuits where reverse polarization is formed.
      7. Barrakuda
        Barrakuda 28 September 2015 17: 08
        +3
        On the question of physics .... Do not confuse electric discharges in a gaseous medium with a fourth state of matter. In physics, you minus one. For example: water-ice-vapor-plasma. The temperature is different. + 38- this is when you are sick.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 28 September 2015 17: 24
          -1
          We don't play tic-tac-face. We share information and reasoning on parity. Discharges in a gas or other dispersed medium have a radial vector. Each particle forms its own radial plasma envelope and creates a general and often deceptive perception. "Northern Lights" is a level process of such a disturbed state of air. And exactly the same visual effect can be seen when the fuel mixture is burned in the nozzle of a rocket engine, and then only in a certain mode of its operation. Let me point out that plasma is not only a state of matter comparable to ice, water, steam. Plasma is the level of magnetic force fluxes that determine each such state. We just do not see this at the level of such relatively static states of water as a substance. Therefore, the level of plasma as the level of magnetic force fluxes for each substance and any of its states is very specific and definite. And by the way, this is well confirmed by experiments in space laboratories. Plasma behaves in exactly the same way as continuous media, but the latter against the background of gravitational magnetic fluxes of the planetary level, and in space without it. Therefore, temperature as a definition may well be replaced by a complex new definition that combines dimensionality, vector and potential, but exists as a specific defining property of magnetic force fluxes.
      8. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 28 September 2015 18: 52
        0
        Quote: crazyrom
        The author knows physics by one (they don’t put 0 at school, but in vain). Comparing the plasma generator of an airplane with an incinerator is the height of stupidity.

        Okay, let's say you somehow stuck an inert gas to the plane, formed a cold plasma around and how will this help with the invisibility of the plane, please explain?
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 28 September 2015 19: 07
          +1
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          Okay, let's say you somehow stuck an inert gas to the plane, formed a cold plasma around and how will this help with the invisibility of the plane, please explain?

          On a radar, such a plasma cloud looks like a supernova and there is no way to aim. Therefore, they are trying to come up with how to make up a device capable of covering the entire plane with a plasma cocoon without problems with exterior corners, engines, etc. hi
          1. NordOst16
            NordOst16 19 March 2018 15: 55
            0
            Mmm, is it no longer an option to aim at the source? Just the same warhead MBR is quite normally determined by the radar. In addition, in the ultraviolet range, the plasma trace is clearly visible.
          2. abrakadabre
            abrakadabre 29 March 2018 08: 12
            0
            On the radar, such a plasma cloud looks like a supernova and there is no way to aim.
            Yah! That is, the problem of launching a rocket in the direction of a target perfectly visible in all range is a problem? And when illuminating the GOS near the target on approach, switching to optical guidance is also a problem? This is not a problem, this is a gift for air defense.
      9. kotvov
        kotvov 28 September 2015 19: 40
        +1
        I was also surprised at the statement, “The future of domestic aviation without plasma generators.” Why did the author take it? Everything flows, everything changes.
      10. Greyjojo
        Greyjojo 28 September 2015 23: 41
        -1
        in household fluorescent lamps, gas is at very low pressure - about 5-10 mm Hg. Art. it is about 30 km high.
        Aircraft at this altitude almost do not fly ...
      11. opus
        opus 29 September 2015 02: 31
        0
        Quote: crazyrom
        The fact that there is a cold plasma, for example, fluorescent lights, the author does not know.

        Yes, he knows (probably).
        but what does it give?
        at T <100grC, the degree of ionization is less than 000%
        the ionization energy is of the order of eV (I don’t remember the known one), and 1 eV is 11600 K, i.e. at low temperatures the degree of ionization will be insignificant.

        The flame of the fire (lo and behold!) Is also a "supercold" plasma) and?
        and at the torch of a liquid-propellant engine (or turbojet engine) ICBM the temperature is not "cc ** e" 800-900gr, but under 3000gr.
        Plasma? Oh yeah.
        And?

        Author about what?
        Posted by:
        Quote: author
        By virtue of its highest electrical conductivity, plasma cannot contribute to a decrease in radar visibility.

        Threat ...
        I'm certainly pleased (and the author asked to "grunt", but I don't remember ...
        Quote: author
        and comments from the opus visitor.

        wink
    2. xtur
      xtur 28 September 2015 10: 36
      +3
      > Oleg in his publications

      You and Oleg have glamorous television ideas about physics. There is not a single reference to research on the mathematical apparatus that solved the equations, on models, on experiments - at least on the opinions of authorities in this field, which are checked

      It turns out the opinion of Kalashnikov against Kaptsov, but thank God everything has already been said before us - the plague on both of your houses ©
      1. yehat
        yehat 28 September 2015 15: 19
        0
        those. as there are no links to the mat. apparatus ???
        formulas of refraction, calculation of field energy, field strength at a point, etc. -
        widely known things.
        As far as I know, about 10 years ago, finally, we completed the creation of a general field theory, which allows us to make calculations for fields of any kind - from electromagnetic to gravitational
        plasma properties, basic models of their behavior have long been described
        what else is needed for calculations ???
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 28 September 2015 15: 25
          -1
          There is a desire! But there are no such theories and cannot be exhaustive, accurate in quantitative definitions, combining the direction of development of processes and determining the levels of energy transformation of processes. Because highly dynamic processes, at least, do not have a definition - "fields". Hence, the concept of "energy" and the essence of the process itself remain undefined.
    3. Falcon
      Falcon 28 September 2015 11: 48
      +3
      In fact, we never talked about a plasma generator for stealth.
      I mean the radar plasma screen, and the rest came up with zhurnalyugi.

      Depending on the specific antenna design, both a frequency selective screen and a plasma screen can be used. It is mounted inside the fairing in the same way as a frequency-selective screen, but its principle of operation is somewhat different. In the absence of a control signal that can be supplied by the pilot of the aircraft or its external radiation detection station, the screen is turned off and transparent at all frequencies. When a signal is received, voltage is applied to the screen, a low-temperature collision plasma is ignited in it, as a result, the radiation is partially reflected from the screen in the directions shown in the figure

      PS: Dear Oleg! Thank you for your articles, but the parallelism of the edges does not matter in radar signal reflection technology! Stop misleading people
      1. Rus2012
        Rus2012 28 September 2015 12: 13
        +1
        Quote: Falcon
        I mean the radar plasma screen

        ... this is just one application. In fact, there are a lot of them ... the most harmless - active plasma static electricity converters with LA :)
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 28 September 2015 12: 31
          +2
          On hypersonic aircraft, the use of plasma will be just right, to reduce the resistance of the incoming flow.
      2. opus
        opus 29 September 2015 02: 43
        +2
        Quote: Falcon
        both frequency selective screen and plasma.

        rotten idea that did not take root
        1.When T pl <100000grC, degree of ionization n (less than 1%)
        who needs such a plasma?
        flame of a bonfire in a furnace, jet jet plasma torch.
        amazingly fixed radar (SPRN)
        2.When T is more than 100000grC, plasma radar in the nose cone will not survive, or rather La will not survive
        +
        For high temperature P. so. degree of ionization characteristic bremsstrahlung with continuous x-ray. spectrum arising from collisions of electrons with ions.
        3. Optical plasmatron ...?
        A laser beam with a power of ~ 1 kW was focused in the region of the nozzle coaxially with the direction of the flow, and a plasma "needle" with a radius of ~ 1 mm, a length of ~ 3 cm, and with temp swarm ~ 15000 K.
        what to do with it?

        Quote: Falcon
        but the parallelism of the edges does not matter in radar signal reflection technology!

        like this?
        If there is a fixed distance λ / 4 (a quarter of the wavelength), or a multiple thereof, it will be absorbed.
        If "not quite" then the reflected signal will be distorted

        Jauman coating principle
        =====================================
        edge parallelism is important
    4. avdkrd
      avdkrd 13 October 2015 00: 09
      -1
      Quote: Bongo
      Oleg often has conflicting opinions and facts in his publications, but in this case it is difficult to disagree with this statement "+"

      About conflicting opinions and facts is more suitable. All calculations of the article are based on a false statement about plasma temperature and further calculations of energy parameters. Suppose the creators of the “stealth generator” have chosen a low-temperature plasma, similar to that used in plasma torches (flame temperature ~ from 5000 to 30 000 ° C). I don’t know the lower temperature limit of the plasma, but in medicine plasma with a temperature of 20C is used http://ej.kubagro.ru/2013/01/pdf/25.pdf, everyone probably saw the lamps (magic ball) - the same temperature regime is somewhat differs from 5000-30000С, there is even a plasma close in temperature to absolute zero. Was there a reason to fence a garden with plasma cutters? The ionosphere of the earth, the auroras are also of a plasma nature. Gas discharge lamps also do not work without plasma formation, and the temperatures there are more modest. Further: Due to its high electrical conductivity, the plasma cannot contribute to a decrease in radar visibility. When enabled, such a “cloud” will shine the brightest mark on the screens of all radars, and its visibility will be even higher than that of a full-metal aircraft. In all spectra without exception! This is also not true. Interestingly, the plasma has both conductive and dielectric properties, but the fact that the plasma is electrically conductive explains plasma invisibility. Plasma conducts an electric current and generates magnetic fields. The earth is surrounded by plasma - it is the magnetosphere that shields us from cosmic radiation. Topic: translation of an interesting article from the Journal of Electronic Defense http://gspo.ru/lofiversion/index.php/t1557.html.
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 29 March 2018 08: 27
        0
        there is even a plasma close in temperature to absolute zero
        Enlighten, at what pressure of the medium does the plasma of the temperature indicated by you exist?
        The ionosphere of the earth, the auroras also have a plasma nature. Gas discharge lamps also do not work without plasma formation, and the temperatures there are more modest.
        Idem.
        The earth is surrounded by plasma - it is the magnetosphere that shields us from cosmic radiation.
        The plasma you mentioned is a halo of ionized gas atoms of the upper atmosphere. they are ionized just by cosmic radiation. The magnetosphere of the Earth is not a consequence of the existence of this halo. Earth's magnetic field exists due to the molten outer core of the planet, which contains a lot of iron, and the rotation of the planet.
  2. Zigmars
    Zigmars 28 September 2015 06: 46
    +43
    Always after reading Oleg Kaptsov’s articles with inexpressible bitterness and frustration, I admit: what a brilliant aircraft-ship-rocket-designer-gunsmith our country has lost! lol
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 28 September 2015 06: 52
      +8
      Quote: Zigmars
      Always after reading Oleg Kaptsov’s articles with inexpressible bitterness and frustration, I admit: what a brilliant aircraft-ship-rocket-designer-gunsmith

      good laughing
      1. Malkor
        Malkor 28 September 2015 08: 46
        +3
        Under Yeltsin, Kaptsov was the head of defense science and now writes memoirs.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  3. BlackDragon
    BlackDragon 28 September 2015 07: 03
    +1
    the beautiful plane should be clearly visible, but any sediment is invisible, you give beauty to the masses laughing
    and finally, there’s no Pak Fa yet, but he’s pretty wassat
  4. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 28 September 2015 07: 44
    +3
    An article from the series: ... but a scare is weak! Let the Americans fuss and look at the next ten billion. $ Will fly into the pipe!
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 28 September 2015 09: 55
      +1
      Quote: kartalovkolya
      Let the Americans fuss and look at the next ten billion. $ Will fly into the pipe!

      In fact, such research was carried out ... and maybe still going on ...
      There was even a novel about these researchers - "I'm going into a thunderstorm."

      Let's better discuss the topic - how the plane is "seen" on the radar through a thundercloud. Especially through frequent lightning strikes ... laughing wassat
      You can certainly look away, such as planes in a thunderstorm-weather do not fly ... But still ...
      Specialists trainees locators what they say?
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 29 March 2018 08: 31
        0
        but how the aircraft is “visible” on the radar through a thundercloud. Especially through frequent lightning strikes ...
        The plane may not be very good, but lightning discharges are fine. And if the plane itself drags all this plasma behind itself, then it’s the same as a scout hiding in the bushes with a sound siren in the backpack. The rustling in the bushes of the person himself may not be heard, but the siren in the backpack ... wassat
  5. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 28 September 2015 08: 51
    0
    Well, yes, "cold plasma" ... all that remains is to provide a vacuum around the plane and that's it. Yeah. wink Although ... something I remember were experiments with special cones in front of the nose of the aircraft for "evacuation" - maybe these were experiments from this "opera"? Well, now there are hypersonic devices - they move almost in plasma. winked
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 28 September 2015 09: 50
      +3
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      Well, yes, "cold plasma" ... all that remains is to provide a vacuum around the plane and that's it.

      ... and what about "St. Elmo's lights"? They exist without any vacuum ... fellow
      Cold plasma, glow discharge ...
      1. BlackDragon
        BlackDragon 28 September 2015 14: 02
        +2
        it remains to invent only antigrav to lift all this persimmon into the air, but it’s such a trifle wassat
        1. yehat
          yehat 28 September 2015 15: 27
          +2
          anti-gravity is no longer fiction. Theoretical science, about 20 years ago, came to a level when it is possible to begin work on its creation.
          it’s just that there are enough cynics and cowardly people in the country who think that creating is weak.
          In fact, work in this area can lead to a breakthrough in the list of other topical issues, for example, to the improvement of the designs of thermonuclear reactors that had been developed by Lavrentiev at one time.
          But you need to work, and making fun of the forum is much easier.
          PS In general, in the USSR the topic of field management developed very actively and almost died in the 90s.
          1. BlackDragon
            BlackDragon 28 September 2015 17: 35
            +1
            even theoretical studies will cost billions, here they can’t deal with monsters. But is this necessary at this stage, are these projects needed from which a richer country can go bankrupt?
            For reference, look at how much the collider costs, and it will be needed for these studies only more powerful and higher wink
            1. yehat
              yehat 29 September 2015 14: 50
              0
              for working with fields you don’t need to build colliders at all
              the most expensive thing is to create a layer of theoretical scientists whose work will be in demand for at least 10-15 years. Something similar has already been done recently in the development of biophysics. This can create the prerequisites for moving on.
              Now it’s hard to even guess what real experimental designs and niches of the economy will be needed.
              1. gridasov
                gridasov 29 September 2015 15: 48
                0
                It is not at all difficult to analyze what is ultimately the source of the industrial world. It is not at all difficult to see the algorithms for the development and evolution of not only humanity, but also groups of its constituents. There is more than enough information for this. Again, it all depends on the methods of analysis that allow you to see not a variety of special cases. but the procedurality of everything that happens. Therefore, real experimental constructions, as you say, already exist. The future has already come and it is developing in a new round. It is just that this is not visible without armed "consciousness"
              2. abrakadabre
                abrakadabre 29 March 2018 08: 38
                0
                the most expensive thing is to create a layer of theoretical scientists whose work will be in demand for at least 10-15 years.
                Here are just all theories we decided to test with practical experiments. In one form or another. Otherwise, the theory remains a hypothesis. But for practical experiments that check the ideas of theoreticians, it is necessary to build colliders, giant telescopes, etc. And the farther, the more these things are more expensive and monstrous. Alas and ah.
                1. yehat
                  yehat 30 March 2018 08: 47
                  0
                  if scientists are sane, they ask to build sane facilities.
                  far from everything that was built for scientific purposes was necessary.
                  The USSR moved science forward, having at times a worse experimental base than was usual in the West.
                  1. abrakadabre
                    abrakadabre 30 March 2018 16: 11
                    0
                    far from everything that was built for scientific purposes was necessary.
                    Only it is always found out after successful or unsuccessful experiments on the verification of theories. But not before.
      2. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 29 March 2018 08: 34
        0
        but with the "lights of St. Elmo"
        What is wrong with them? Are they invisible? They do not radiate? What exactly confuses you in them?
    2. yehat
      yehat 28 September 2015 15: 24
      0
      why is there a vacuum ???
      maybe you still suggest using da Vinci screws to disperse the air?
      better end fooling around and admit that you can do something more effective.
  6. Lime Bayun
    Lime Bayun 28 September 2015 09: 17
    0
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMETb1xjv8&itct=CA4QpDAYDyITCICSkp6ImcgCFQ0TFgodSa
    MGSVIe0YTQuNC70YzQvCDQv9GA0L4g0L_Qu9Cw0LfQvNGD&gl=RU&hl=ru&client=mv-google
  7. Avas2006
    Avas2006 28 September 2015 09: 19
    +1
    Like any metal containing free electrons, ionized gas (plasma) has excellent electrical conductivity.

    The author is clearly at odds with physics.
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 28 September 2015 18: 56
      +1
      Quote: Avas2006
      The author is clearly at odds with physics.

      Explain to the author what he is wrong.
    2. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 29 March 2018 08: 40
      0
      Explain your point? Enlighten.
      The only thing I want to correct with the author is that the plasma conductivity is not only free electrons, but also positively charged ions.
  8. sssla
    sssla 28 September 2015 10: 13
    0
    Under Yeltsin, a lot of things were sold to "sworn" friends on the other side of the okiyan, and plasma too !!
  9. xtur
    xtur 28 September 2015 10: 31
    +4
    I didn’t understand anything from Kaptsov’s reasoning - you cannot write about physical effects with the approach of a linguist.
  10. bankirchik34
    bankirchik34 28 September 2015 10: 50
    +2
    there was a Trudovik in our school, so he also understood all issues at the same time, he was a very entertaining character smile
    1. yehat
      yehat 28 September 2015 15: 32
      +1
      was his name not Anatoly Wasserman?
  11. vladimir_krm
    vladimir_krm 28 September 2015 10: 54
    +1
    "All attempts to find at least some information about the development and creation of" plasma stealth ", as a rule, lead to the same fictitious interview with specialists from the Keldysh Research Center."

    1. Oh, how Oleg Kaptsov wants to know information with the stamp "top secret"! :)

    2. Bad looking? It is not necessary to envelop the entire plane in a plasma cloud stupidly; only the most critical elements need to be protected. There is enough energy for this from generators. Here is a quote from an article "FUNDAMENTAL AND APPLIED PROBLEMS OF STEALTH TECHNOLOGIES" by Poghosyan and Lagarkov, completely open to anyone on the Internet:

    Depending on the specific antenna design, both a frequency selective screen and a plasma screen can be used. It is mounted inside the fairing in the same way as a frequency-selective screen, but its principle of operation is somewhat different. In the absence of a control signal that can be supplied by the pilot of the aircraft or its external radiation detection station, the screen is turned off and transparent at all frequencies. When a signal arrives, voltage is applied to the screen, a low-temperature collision plasma is ignited in it, as a result, the radiation is partially reflected from the screen in the directions shown in Figure 5, c, and partially absorbed in the screen. The screen is effective for electromagnetic radiation of all frequencies, less than plasma. The value of the plasma frequency in such systems can be very large. Long-term studies of processes occurring in a low-temperature plasma made it possible to find the optimal parameters for the composition of the gases forming the plasma and to optimize the high-speed plasma generation system needed to respond to a rapidly changing external environment. Flight tests demonstrate the high efficiency of the proposed solutions aimed at reducing the radar visibility of the antenna compartment.
    http://kramtp.info/news/18/full/id=31922
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 28 September 2015 12: 26
      +1
      Are you kidding when you say that you need to find the right composition of gases for a flying airplane? The questions of creating a plasma shell consists in searching for methods and methods for obtaining the corresponding current parameters, rather than creating empirical generators. Why? Because as soon as you create such a generator, the breakdown will not be on Wednesday, but on the airplane body with the ensuing consequences. If you do not believe it, then walk through the body of your car as a shocker (or someone else's). Therefore, you must first understand how to create an email. the magnetic circuit is not a linear process, but a radial one. And how to get the potential difference between the aircraft body and the environment. In fact, everything is very simple in theoretical terms and reasonably enough. But !!! Then the aircraft body itself must be critically modified. Although it is possible to form individual sections of the body with a plasma shell. The key aspect of this technology is not the creation of an external generator of certain parameters of email. potential and current, and the formation of the transformation of those processes with which the aircraft is in contact. Therefore, as the Americans say, information is no longer worth much. The analysis of this information matters.
      1. yehat
        yehat 28 September 2015 15: 41
        0
        put a plus, but there is one significant but - for the description of dynamic models, classical mathematics is too inconvenient and cumbersome, which turns into hell attempts to create theoretical mathematical models. Moreover, even the created models cause enormous difficulties, such as solutions of the Schrödinger equation. It is necessary to develop other ways of describing models that are more universal and concise, classical mathematics, algebra and the mathematical analysis based on it are poorly suited.
        The Novosibirsk Institute of Mathematics (and he is a world leader) has long had a whole list of works on this topic, but there is simply no understanding of the need for active movement further in the manual - it is popularly believed that all needs are covered for many years to come, but this is not so. I recall that the breakthrough of Americans in recent years in aviation is mainly associated with the theft of calculation methods for avionics and aerodynamics from the USSR.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 28 September 2015 15: 59
          -1
          I would like to point out only one aspect of such a new mathematical model for the analysis of highly dynamic processes. This also applies to the Schrödinger equation. The component part of the analysis which we consider as "initial" should not have any restrictions on the input information, which may have not only the obviousness of its perception, but also not obviousness. Moreover, not limited to binary logic, but multivalued logic with fixed parameters. Therefore, the conclusions that we receive at each stage of such calculations or analysis also have practically unlimited parameters of answers. But!!! We can talk about analysis in those answers and mate. solutions that we get as close as possible to those mathematical events that we consider in conjugate processes. Moreover, everything happens in the algorithms of mathematical transformations in such a way that the speed of these processes loses its meaning as such a process. Rather, not the very speed of "information flows, but the essence of these phenomena. Therefore, I can safely say that there is no such methodology of analysis.
  12. Ruslan
    Ruslan 28 September 2015 11: 59
    0
    By the way, the same M. Kalashnikov described another stealth technology made in Russia. the alloy of iron and nickel (if I remember correctly) is cooled at a speed of about 100 degrees per second, because of which a crystal lattice does not have time to form in the metal. an amorphous metal is obtained. Such a material completely absorbs electromagnetic radiation, is an excellent protection of a person from magnetic waves, protects equipment from em radiation and completely absorbs radar radiation, due to its structure. at the same time, such a coating will be slightly thicker than the fabric, as I understand it. like this. I think you can cover all subsonic la, cruise missiles, ships and more.
    there will be a stealth army :)
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 28 September 2015 15: 58
      +1
      Quote: ruslan
      M. Kalashnikov described

      laughing

      Quote: ruslan
      an alloy of iron and nickel (if I remember correctly) is cooled at a speed of about 100 degrees per second

      Not 100, but 10 ^ 4-10 ^ 9 ° C / s. And not necessarily Fe-Ni, there are many of them different

      Quote: ruslan
      such material ... completely absorbs radar radiation

      laughing

      Quote: ruslan
      at the same time, such a coating will be slightly thicker than the fabric .. can cover all subsonic la, cruise missiles, ships, etc.

      Amorphous metals are obtained in the form of:

      - powder
      - thin wire
      - a narrow tape (he saw no wider than 3 centimeters. They say it happens up to 10-15)

      Question: what do you think cover?

      Quote: ruslan
      there will be a stealth army

      Mdja ..
      1. Ruslan
        Ruslan 30 September 2015 02: 49
        0
        and what, that the dissertation of the Russian scientist Kuznetsov PA, described M. Kalashnikov? what is the reason to neighing?
        I haven’t read it, but I condemn it, this is about you. I am not at all interested in the opinion of a person about this dissertation, who did not come up with anything more complicated than a pencil. read the thesis for starters, then you will build yourself a specialist on amorphous and magnetically soft materials.
        as they say, for what I bought, for what I sold. the only mistake: cooled at 105-106 degrees per second and the alloy of iron and cobalt.
        and what do you dislike about the prospects? if this technology works, I think there will be no problem covering helicopters and cruise missiles with this material, maybe planes with ships. as? this is a problem for scientists. than a stealth army, where the most dangerous types of equipment are difficult to detect?
        ps link to the dissertation if interested http://www.dissercat.com/content/sozdanie-effektivnykh-sistem-elektromagnitnoi-z
        ashchity-na-osnove-magnitomyagkikh-amorfnykh-
    2. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 29 March 2018 08: 46
      0
      It is an excellent protection for people from magnetic waves, protection of equipment from em radiation
      Does simple metal not do this? Try to put the mobile phone in the safe and call it. You will find many wonderful discoveries. Read also about such a magical item as the Faraday cage.
  13. 2nd 12th
    2nd 12th 28 September 2015 12: 36
    0
    I read once about similar know-how. There, it seemed, it was suggested that a layer of plasma not cover the entire surface of the aircraft, but only individual elements. And there was discussed such a detail: plasma dramatically reduces drag.
    Imagine what will happen if you cover the air intakes with a layer of plasma?
  14. Diviz
    Diviz 28 September 2015 13: 49
    0
    If they created such a spaceship, then about 50 years this information will be closed. There will be no world order.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 September 2015 14: 09
      -1
      In the sixth generation of fighters, plasma technologies will be used, a plasma system for igniting the fuel of the air mixture in the engine, reducing visibility and air resistance.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 28 September 2015 14: 27
        -4
        The fact that there should be a fuel ignition system indicates that the modern most advanced aircraft turbine cannot provide sufficient compression of the dynamic gas flow, which means that the potential energy of this flow remains unattainable in control and in general use. And since there are no theoretical prerequisites for understanding this application technology, then everything else remains fabulous and did not come true. Because stealth technologies based on Ufimtsev's theoretical reasoning correspond exclusively to the level of achievements used in radars. And since the element base also does not allow expanding the range of operation of these electronic devices, as they say: "No one is forbidden to dream"
  15. Buffalo
    Buffalo 28 September 2015 14: 21
    +2
    For most ordinary people, the Shkval missile-torpedo also seems like a fantastic project, because they don't know how it works. And, nevertheless, the fact is obvious - the rocket moves under water in a gas envelope, at a speed inaccessible to a conventional torpedo.
    https://youtu.be/Z9_xTnmVuAQ

    There is another example. - They said that flying saucers was a myth, but in England there lived a man named Searle who managed to create such an apparatus and refute what everyone knew ... He created and circled Searle's OIL-FREE GENERATOR, though not without a hint from outside. The device draws energy from the surrounding space, and this was previously done by the genius of Nikola Tesla. Amazing speed, fantastic maneuverability, and huge overloads - none!
    https://youtu.be/GczL-9lSFOY
    Skeptics chuckled while watching this film, and employees of the Institute for High Energy Physics created an operating model of the Searle generator and got a real, positive result. The conclusion can be found on the Internet.
    There is already an electromagnetic engine for interplanetary spacecraft, the fuel for which is ... nickel!
    http://smi2.ru/?article=11530899

    Plasma weapons. New types of weapons in Russia. Video.
    https://youtu.be/TGMETb1xjv8
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 28 September 2015 15: 02
      -2
      The technologies used on these torpedoes from both Russian and other countries of manufacture are the level of 60 years ago. And the methods that are used in them to create high speed rely on chemical reactions and a banal simple distribution of the released gas in such a way as to transfer the interaction of the surface of the torpedo's outflow with water through an intermediate layer, i.e. gas. But in fact, these torpedoes are absolutely uncontrollable and with a falling effective speed and with a very limited fixed range, etc. In general, decisions should be on a completely different "plane".
      1. Buffalo
        Buffalo 28 September 2015 15: 25
        0
        Everything new is forgotten old.
        Have you ever heard that the ancient Indian epic describes the vimaana rocket launchers that were widely used by the population? From Hyperborea flew all over the Earth.
    2. Buffalo
      Buffalo 28 September 2015 15: 04
      -2
      John Searle's Flying Saucer (England), a film about the history of creation
      another type of engine generator (converter), which was used on
      flying saucers (the author built 6 unmanaged samples and 41
      managed) and successfully flew them. But didn’t sell technology to anyone,
      he was afraid that he would be used for military purposes. He flew over
      Russia ... The speed is such that from New York to Sydney (over 15500 km it
      flew in 0,5 hours! And in space he has light speed and higher!
      Experienced, uncontrolled sample, weighing 0,5 tons, the dismissal easily
      mooring weight, 60 t !!!
      Moreover, the worker removes the gravitational effect on the apparatus and
      crew, no inertia - hence the maneuverability - colossal.
      It differs from the Shkondin engine in that in addition to receiving
      electricity, the device interacts with the gravitational field and such
      creates a lifting force.
      In Russia, this unit was reproduced at the Institute of High Temperatures, on
      experimental setup, which spun up to 500 revolutions per
      minute, while superconductivity was achieved (with decreasing
      the temperature of the stator ring up to 4 degrees K is almost an absolute zero!) in the electromagnet
      stator rings from
      rare earth metals (niobium, etc.) and the effect of weight reduction by 30%. No more
      continued so that the installation did not fly away. The reference, in my opinion does not work ...
      http://journals.ioffe.ru/pjtf/2000/24/page-70.html.ru
      Continue to create a prom. sample in Khimki, OAO NPO
      "Energomash" named after academician VP Glushko.
      http://www.bagmanov.ru/science/%D0%AD%D1%84%D1%84%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%20%D0%A1%D0%
      B5%D1%80%D0%BB%D0%B0/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9%20%D
      0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%20%D0%A1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BB%
      D0%B0%20-%20%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%89%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%93%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%
      D0% B0.htm
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 28 September 2015 15: 14
        -2
        Your reasoning in the framework of the fact that you can get some result and not know why and what is happening as a "theoretical background" is equivalent to the fact that it is better not to have this "atomic bomb" than to have it as an uncontrollable process. Therefore, we need technologies with controlled over-unit processes and the ability to scale, a wide range of applications, etc. This requires theoretical knowledge.
        1. Buffalo
          Buffalo 28 September 2015 15: 20
          0
          And who told you that the Institute of High Temperatures could not give a theoretical explanation of the effect?
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 28 September 2015 15: 38
            -3
            One does not need to know what is being done in closed institutes in order not to see that they are using mathematical analysis, which will not even allow them to come closer to understanding highly dynamic, highly potential processes. They themselves assert of course that there are such comprehensive justifications. But this is only a certain level of understanding of the essence of processes.
            1. Buffalo
              Buffalo 28 September 2015 16: 06
              +1
              Well, you obviously understand everything, you know everything ...
              So all hope is on you! Waiting, sir!
              1. gridasov
                gridasov 28 September 2015 16: 15
                -1
                Alas! We can talk only about new forms of analysis and at present about fundamentally new devices and the conversion of hydro-gas-dynamic flows and new devices that represent the elemental base of email. devices. No more.
  16. Buffalo
    Buffalo 28 September 2015 14: 47
    0
    The Russian inventor was able to refute the law of conservation of energy.
    Vasily Vasilievich Shkondin created an engine-wheel, the principle of which science cannot fully explain yet. In fact, it is a perpetual motion machine (its efficiency is close to 100%, minus small losses, about 10%, which are explained by the imperfection of the quality of materials.
    The genius is Vasily Shkondin. And you say that you cannot reinvent the wheel!
    Fantasy!!!
    http://youtu.be/KvjKXLmI-l8
    http://youtu.be/rV7ECvIPR6o
    Shkondin tricycle tows a passenger car.
    http://youtu.be/6XBQfp_Z1J4
    http://www.skif.biz/index.php?name=Pages&op=page&pid=144
    Serial production of mopeds with a Shkondin engine, mastered in India. There was no investor in Russia ...
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 28 September 2015 15: 07
      0
      Yes ! But after Shkondin there are solutions that allow one order of magnitude to increase the efficiency of such a device. And the conversation is not generally about "over-unity", but goes in line with the increase in such a process as natural and controlled.
  17. Whowhy
    Whowhy 28 September 2015 15: 17
    +1
    The article is nothing. What the hell is the difference you can make stealth with plasma, or not. I mean you and me. Well, in the kitchen over beer you can discuss it - so to speak, to shine with erudition ... This is from the category of scholasticism. "How many angels can fit on the tip of a needle?"
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 28 September 2015 15: 30
      -1
      Only one ANGEL can fit on the tip of the needle and communication with it will be very short-lived if this needle pierces the vital blood flow in a known area. All that remains is the question. Will it be an angel or anyone else. You may not hear the answer.
  18. tomket
    tomket 28 September 2015 15: 41
    +5
    And it is a matter of considerable concern that the inhabitants of the most reading country in the world with universal 10-class education so easily believe in different nonsense.
    So you Oleg yourself are often the primary source and peddler of this same nonsense.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. Dragon-y
    Dragon-y 28 September 2015 18: 40
    +1
    Author, "teach materiel!"

    When the descent vehicle passes through the dense layers of the atmosphere, all the antennas previously installed on it simply burn out, and there will be no communication until a parachute comes out, among which there will be an antenna.
    1. opus
      opus 29 September 2015 11: 58
      +1
      Quote: Dragon-y
      and there will be no communication until a parachute comes out, among the lines of which there will be an antenna.

      1. Yes telemetry antennas, proximity equipment, radio communications burn out.about not on the descent vehicle.

      --------------------
      AMS-Venus: speeds of entry into the atmosphere of the order of 11 km / s of overload reached 450 g, and the temperature times in the front of the shock wave reached 11 000 K, pressure up to 120 atm

      The descent vehicle of the Venera-8 station:


      1 - parachute; 2 - transmitting antenna; 3 - parachute compartment lid;
      4 - radio transmitter; 5 - damper; 6 - thermal protection;
      7 - case; 8 - heat exchanger

      nothing burns, there is no antenna in the slings, the transmission is already on the Earth, from Venus

      2. In parachute slings it is built in More antenna, however, it often failed.
      "Soyuz-2" death of Komarov - until the rescuers' call with the message that the landing was “Abnormal” and the ship was burning on the ground, the mood at the MCC was upbeat.

      3. On reusable korbaley (Shuttle, Buran) do not burn and no slings and no parachutes.
      But there is a connectionexcept for the period in the plasma cocoon

      Ku band radar (or two) for convergence with other space objects, a set (or two sets) of Ku band equipment for providing communication with satellites, three star sensors, two one-sided Doppler separators, program-time devices, two TWT S-band amplifiers with power 100 watts each, two sets of equipment of range P for use in the landing support system, as well as for communication with crew members in outer space, a set of equipment of range K to provide communication paths OK with the Earth and with the payload, a set of equipment of range K to ensure communication OK with the Earth, antennas.
  21. Svetlana
    Svetlana 28 September 2015 23: 59
    +1
    At an altitude of 20 km, the concentration of air molecules is 7,0e17pcs / cm3. For headlamps with a wavelength of 3 cm, the plasma cut-off concentration is 1,3e12 pieces / cm3. That is, in an air plasma at a height of 20 km, cutting off microwave radiation with a wavelength of 3 cm, only about 2 molecules out of every million air molecules are ionized. Ionization of such a small number of molecules does not require a lot of onboard electricity.
    Perhaps, when creating a plasma cloud for curving the trajectories of the probing microwave beams from the PAR, it was meant to create plasma formations around the aircraft, with an exponentially increasing plasma concentration, from zero concentration at a distance of 10 m from the board up to the cutoff concentration of the sounding microwave beams directly near the aircraft body. With such a profile of plasma concentration around the aircraft, the probing microwave beams can smoothly bend their trajectory, bending around the aircraft body and not experiencing reflection back to the PAR that sent them. In this case, the plasma around the aircraft will indeed hide it from detection of the microwave PAR even without the use of "chopped" body shapes.
    Another method of concealment - in the optical range - is the application of a special scaly nanocoating, see
    http://www.dailytechinfo.org/np/7407-uchenye-vplotnuyu-priblizilis-k-sozdaniyu-p

    lascha-nevidimki-rabotayuschego-v-diapazone-vidimogo-sveta.html
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 29 September 2015 00: 41
      +4
      Well done! There is only one more effect that everyone has forgotten about. This is the ABSORPTION of electromagnetic waves in plasma. And very effective. Plasma, in fact, is not an ideal conductor, its conductivity varies greatly with concentration and electron temperature (the same "cold" or, in physical terms, non-equilibrium plasma.) And nobody was confused that the ionosphere reflects SHORT radio waves, and VHF - no? This phenomenon is called plasma frequency. The higher the plasma concentration, the higher the frequency the phenomenon of radio wave reflection from the plasma formation occurs. But all the rest, lower frequencies in the plasma are quite effectively ABSORBED. Including those that got to the side of the plane and were reflected from it. Yes, the energy costs are decent, but not supernatural. Yes, a side factor in the use of such a device is that you yourself go blind in the radio range. There are many questions. And again, on the screens of LONG-WAVE radars (meter range) you will be visible (physics cannot be fooled) - but these are the corresponding powers and antenna sizes, which are proportional to the wavelength. There are not many of them, such large ones, such a fighter will not fit, etc. Any radar with a wavelength of the order of the size of an object wanted to give a damn about the SHAPE and angles of reflective surfaces.
    2. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 29 March 2018 08: 56
      0
      My respect, Svetlana. The question is not only that the modulated signal from the radar does not return to its receiver. But also that the "stealth" object itself does not radiate anything superfluous. Otherwise, the radar will not need an active channel. Everything will be recorded in passive mode. Do you know a plasma with the necessary level of ionization that radiates nothing outside?

      Natural examples of plasma objects:
      1. high-temperature: stars - not just emit, and very, very. Some are visible at a distance of millions of light years. Despite the fact that we will not scan them with a radar beam.
      2. low temperature: for example, the channel of ionized gas during a flash of lightning - the radiation is fixed by any radio receiver assembled from ram and sticks. Not to mention specialized radars.
      3. even lower temperature: aurora - interference (broadband radio noise) is detected in general by everything that is capable of receiving radio signals. Up to power lines of distribution networks. Because of what there can be failures if there are problems with protective systems.
    3. Lunt
      Lunt 18 May 2018 09: 07
      0
      But wouldn’t it be easier to launch missiles from aircraft at an altitude of 50 km?
  22. gridasov
    gridasov 29 September 2015 10: 11
    0
    Firstly, I urge everyone to behave correctly in relation to the author of the article. His task was not to show himself, but to call all respected participants to the discussion.
    From all the statements it can already be concluded that plasma is a complex phenomenon that affects and changes the interaction parameters of very many components of space as processes. And everyone who expresses his opinion will be right. So the conclusion is very simple and which consists in the fact that knowledge is needed on which algorithms or sequences to build the entire totality of this knowledge. We, as people, continue to use binary logic and the linear method of constructing and analyzing information. And that means plasma as a phenomenon cannot be analyzed by our not perfect method of analysis. We always forget that plasma also changes and transforms according to its own algorithms and in a very short-term process and along all the direction vectors of interactions. And not only in the outside, but in the inner vector. The plasma magnetic flux density also has its own laws of transformation. Therefore, I repeat once again that high-capacity and highly dynamic processes in space require an appropriate method of analysis of these processes.
  23. gridasov
    gridasov 29 September 2015 14: 17
    -1
    Apparently not many people understand that any material body already forms a plasma layer with the environment - visible or not. And this means that the conversation is about the method and way of activating these magnetic force interactions with both the environment and the background gravitational effect. Therefore, the question is not even that plasma is "infinite" in its variety, but that we are talking about its controlled reform process. And this requires the stages of the previous impact on any body in interaction with any continuous or other medium. Scientists have driven themselves into a dead end by creating theories about magnets, diamagnets and beyond. By changing the managed email quality. magnetic influence everything becomes e-mail. conducted and interactive. This is the technology that meets the challenges of our time. Therefore, when we talk, for example, about the achievement of anti-gravitational effects, we must understand that it is important to understand the process in the reverse vector, that is, to increase the gravitational force, which is especially important in space travel and in banal drilling in any rock hardness, etc. ... And completely justified methods can allow reaching both hypersonic speeds and pulse amplification of the range of the scale of various el. magnetic waves, including in the visible. After all, let everyone imagine that now we do not in any way affect any stream in the beam of the channel that causes us a visible image. That is, we do not form the energy of this beam, but simply mechanically with the help of various systems we create the effects of such amplification. At the same time, the electric magnetic amplification of such a beam, which is fundamentally different from the laser beam, can allow us to perceive distant objects. Moreover, they are located not only in the vector of the "direct" ray.
  24. izGOI
    izGOI 30 September 2015 00: 38
    0
    Everything seems to be good, but it’s bad luck - the plasma itself gives such a glow that radars are not needed. For hundreds of kilometers it can be seen with the naked eye. And for modern optics, this is not a problem. There is already no fog, no cloud cover.
    1. yehat
      yehat 30 September 2015 11: 13
      0
      yes how much can this nonsense be repeated ???
      who is going to make a dense high-temperature plasma cloud of a dozen meters ???
      it's about a completely different technology! More precisely, there is a list of more subtle measures to reduce the intensity of reflection. One of them is to use elements of ionization and increase the energy of a substance near an airplane, to change the properties of air sufficient to distort the passage of radio waves in a certain frequency range (to cause refraction). Do you feel the difference?
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 30 September 2015 12: 06
        0
        How long have I been in this forum, but for the first time I listen to a person who thinks rationally and logically. It is absolutely true that it is impossible and impossible to create some abstract plasma clouds. The conditions for the transformation of a hydro-gas-dynamic flow substance in order to use its potential energy are simply corny. And it will itself form superfluidity, superconductivity effects, and it will also form intermediate layers of interaction in algorithms from turbulent to luminescent. BUT!!! And further. And how many had to listen to the insults in my address. And how grateful I am that there are like-minded people. Moreover, it is on this basis that it is possible to create fundamentally new turbines for all types of use, while achieving super-performance by overcoming fracture thresholds.
  25. Phoenix_L'vov
    Phoenix_L'vov April 8 2018 09: 44
    0
    The first time I put Kaptsov’s article plus, he knows how, when he wants, to write not all nonsense, but sensible things!
    But the idea - a gas absorbing radio waves, of course, is good, it’s a pity that so far this is only a dream ...
  26. Lunt
    Lunt 18 May 2018 08: 52
    0
    The best way to make an airplane invisible is to use a measurement shift, i.e. the plane just falls into another dimension and becomes invisible in it. This explains the sudden disappearance of alien ships, as well as the secretive presence of millions of their ships, some the size of a planet, in the vicinity of the Earth.
  27. rsva2012
    rsva2012 19 March 2021 12: 16
    0
    Interestingly, has the author ever seen the Northern Lights on the IKO, or on the SNR screens (different ranges)?
    Thunderclouds (meteorological formation), not a question, as well as "local people", but at the expense of the Northern Lights, to be honest, RL, but never observed it.
    In 1987, a Tu-160 was transported from the Crimea to the Leningrad Region. And they OBSERVED it only from 4 escort fighters. BEFORE the collapse of the USSR. And AFTER, information came across that in the UK, the Kyrgyz Republic during the flight, could not find a single radar.
    In general, even an ABSOLUTELY "radio-transparent" aircraft in the atmosphere LEAVES a trace. Both inversion and due to the "disturbance" of the atmosphere. The work of the Boat SOKS is based on this phenomenon.
    So, absolute "INVISIBILITY" is nothing more than a "marketing ploy". Especially in the conditions of the "ONE POLAR" World. You GIVE the main thing money.
    "Nothing personal. Purely business approach. BUSINESS".