"Armata" will not be trusted to "conscripts"

Oleg Sienko, CEO of Uralvagonzavod, told reporters "Rossiyskaya Gazeta" that in Nizhny Tagil a Training Center for professional crews for armored vehicles will be created on the basis of "Almaty". At the same time, Sienko noted that the plans of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation include recruiting for service in the latest Russian tank and other armored vehicles on the Armata platform exclusively by professional military personnel. Soldiers serving in the conscription will not be involved in the operation of “Almaty”.

Oleg Sienko:

Of course, this is not a machine for conscripts; it is for professionals. A training center for professional crews for armored vehicles, which is being created on the basis of “Almaty”, will be established in Nizhny Tagil. In the future, it is planned to create a comprehensive training center here.

According to the director of Uralvagonzavod, not only Russian, but also foreign military personnel who are employed in the operation of military equipment manufactured by the enterprise will be trained and retrained at the Nizhny Tagil center.

The material notes that now experts are working to increase the power of the power plant of the newest tank. Now the engine power is about 1,5 thousand horsepower, but soon it will be brought to 1,8 thousand hp

Comments

[sever.56]

All right! No offense for our advanced youth, but, professionals must manage such a serious and expensive equipment. Today's one-year service can not afford to master it!

[ZU-23]

I agree, because on the battlefield they will slow down like Red Square

[kamil_tt]

representatives of the UralVagonZavod said that they had specially planted conscripts behind Armata to show how easy it was to manage it ..

[vadson]

Directly on the machine and the blonde will be taught, and in combat, blondes do nefig

[Prisoner]

And in serious combat conditions, where are we going to save a pro? Or again take-off and landing and God to help you kid?

[ava09]

This approach suggests that either the tank will not be massive, or untrained reservists in battle, if that. The state of the army and navy at the moment is evidenced by the fact that, to help about 10 divisions (in terms of number of bayonets), Assad's army had to drive almost the entire composition of landing ships from all four fleets. It is hoped that such a picture will change quickly enough, the war is on the verge, and whether it will be possible to avoid it is a question ...

[Dart2027]

Quote: ava09

This approach suggests that either the tank will not be massive, or untrained reservists in battle, if that

Everything rests on production technology.
Before the advent of massive, easy-to-use and cheap to manufacture weapons, no mobile reserves were created by anyone because it was pointless. That is why the PVM and WWII were the wars of millions of armies - it was possible to quickly and massively arm the militias.
Now this is already difficult, since a complex technique requires large expenditures (in terms of time, not money) for its creation, and the use of samples that have been outdated for decades is ineffective. Therefore, the reserve makes sense only in the infantry, armed again with simple and cheap weapons - machine guns, grenade launchers, MANPADS, portable mortars, etc.

[izGOI]

And in combat (God forbid) conditions, conscripts and conscripts will be on the T-72, or even the T-10, removed from storage. There will be enough trained crews for the existing T-14, but there will be no new "Armata", as well as UVZ.

[Mih]

Existing T-14 trained crews will be enough, and new

Then it is worth recalling the legendary T34?

[Foxmara]

we have more than enough "new" tanks. As well as 34-ok in storage garbage. When the main forces are ground, the 34s may well sweep across Europe .. there will be no one to stop

[Drmadfisher]

the locomotives are also in conservation and non-CNC machines in conservation, and tube stations (which nuclear weapons do not care about)

[Deniska]

I think there are plans for "Conscripts to ride the T-90" ...

[voronbel53]

Quote: Captive

And in serious combat conditions, where are we going to save a pro?

Yes, all Beethovens in computer games, and here, the guard? Do you think they are planting any other salabon technique? Professionals themselves are not born, they will teach, - to fly on an airplane after studying at schools, at least three years, but is it easier here? And the cost of equipment is proportional - now professionals should be everywhere. And even more so with the new technology, to bring to mind, all the more. So, - where, where? - they will teach, ignoramuses have no place here ...

[romanru4]

War is not a shooting range. Military equipment should be reliable, simple and understandable for the bulk of the population. The Kalmius artillery brigade in Donbas has D-30 howitzers. So, a local therapist, a miner, a taxi driver and an electrician for the FIRST time in their life, approaching this weapon, fired from it after 3 (three) hours (under the strict guidance of an experienced artilleryman). After 3 days, it was already a real combat crew of the gun. After 3 weeks, the doctor replaced the gunner. This is how real weapons should be for war, and not for demonstration shooting with professionals who have studied materiel for five years. Where is the war for five years? Who will give them to us?

[theadenter]

Artillery alone cannot win a war.
I believe that Armata also has that basic functionality that can be learned in a day or two.

[Cat man null]

Quote: theadenter

and on Armata there is that basic functionality that can be learned in a day or two.

Well, of course ... for example : (clickable)

[Kunar]

The standard is excellent - And minus 30% of all results)))) If you want to live .... In my opinion, a good incentive ....

[theadenter]

Computer games will undoubtedly help in the beginning of training in tank control.
But they will not make professionals.

[Shadowcat]

Unless the current when they find where the keyboard / joystick to connect.

[theadenter]

There is a joystick in Armata. A joystick can be in the form of a handle with buttons.

[Mih]

ignoramuses have no place here ...

So who can teach in 1 year? Mu..ov, after comp_game - doesn’t roll.

[CAMS]

but what are you talking about, there will be no war other than nuclear, if this equipment will participate in the battles, then not on our territory and not globally. and for this there will be enough contract soldiers.

[BIP PS FSB RF]

So this is an advertisement for a contract army. If you want to drive armature - sign a contract.

[Kunar]

In WoT.

[Vladimir 1964]

Quote: kamil_tt

representatives of the UralVagonZavod said that they had specially planted conscripts behind Armata to show how easy it was to manage it ..

Camille, and did not think about the fact that there is a rather big difference between the concepts of "easy to operate" and "be able to use". All the same, it is easy to drive through the square, even along Krasnaya Street, this is one thing, and having the skills and abilities to use the entire complex as a whole is from a completely different opera.

Somewhere like that.

[Kunar]

The old tale about "chauffeur" and "driver" .... Theory without practice is dead.

[Manul]

Quote: kamil_tt

representatives of the UralVagonZavod said that they had specially planted conscripts behind Armata to show how easy it was to manage it ..

They didn’t say such a thing. Long before the parade, on the contrary, they tried to offer the military to be allowed to control their specialists at the parade. They did not agree. And here's why - to show that the conscript can easily, or for constitutional reasons, now we can only speculate.

[Deniska]

representatives of the UralVagonZavod said that they had specially planted conscripts behind Armata to show how easy it was to manage it ..

One thing to drive through the parade, another to fight!

[kamil_tt]

it was not the most successful attempt of the leadership, which announced that the evacuation of the tank was being worked out, and the attempt to move it away from the place with the help of the BREM when the transmission on the tank was blocked. but urapotriotom anyway, they revel in the incredible aura of propaganda, giving +100 to steepness, +1000 to defense and + 500% to the damage of this product. but in fact the tank will be brought to mind another 5-10 years and will release more than one modification in the process. however, all this does not matter, because the real machine itself has already drowned in Internet myths and sofa analytics. patreotism and ChSV, propaganda and prejudice, dementia and courage. some exalt the tank to heaven, others throw to the bottom of the pit with shit

[78bor1973]

But the previous 70 parades behind the levers were precisely conscripts and there were no complaints! Everyone expects too much from the pros.!

[Kunar]

I'll try to stop your argument)))) All conscripts someday become pros ... 3,2,1klassa and masters. In my army, badges just did not give ...

[meriem1]

Quote: ZU-23

I agree, because on the battlefield they will slow down like Red Square

Correctly. The technique is serious. And now they serve just a moment. Whoever wants to will master the technique. We have someone !!! Our youth .. Not like us. But no worse than Us ... I think Better.

[bhdir1946]

Apparently, they are going to produce a car for peacetime. And how can this statement be understood differently?

[Basarev]

And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Basarev

And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.

I agree, but 100% making the army a contract is a big mistake. In the case of general mobilization, you will have to learn how to use the machine from scratch. And if in the days of the USSR the army would be contracted, then now Donbass would have long been captured by the forces of the ATO. Nobody would be able to use the D30 so harmoniously.

[Motherland Russia]

It would be great if it were possible, on our own, to go to the training camp in the troops.
To refresh that he was able and learn new things.

[Throw]

http://dobrovolec.org -не совсем сборы конечно, но и освоите новое, и освежитесь хорошо

[SKIF555]

More than 10 years ago, I politely "sent" the recruiting office workers to such summons (2 times), with the condition that I undergo retraining if the AK starts shooting from the butt and the BMP itself, at my will, will find and shoot at targets. DONE - COME TRUE! I WANT IT, BUT, DO NOT NAME SOMETHING NOW !!!

[Kunar]

This is the same two years and will leave)))))))))

[Kunar]

The contract and professional army are two big differences. In two years, you can teach the use of personal weapons. But the Navy served three years. Why?

[ammunition]

6 rounds per minute. On the most fluent.
It’s not thick .. For the C grade.
----------------
But!
Under this video, there are comments on YouTube. Foreign
They believe that the guns have the coolest professionals.
In fact .. the men have not yet fully restored their army skills. And some did not even serve in artillery.
-----------
So it turns out that universal conscription gives millions of trained soldiers in reserve.

[Aleksey_K]

Quote: Basarev

And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.

In the Soviet army, tankers were trained in training for six months. And then 1.5 years in the combat unit. You just need to increase the service life again to 2 years.
And the second:
When the war begins and in the first battles most of the professional army will be ground in battles, then who will fight on tanks? No, it is necessary to teach recruits, but at first, recruit computer-literate youth, and not those who cannot read and write competently. By the way, the "Ratnik" kit will also be computerized. Losers - get ready for the whole service to lick the barracks and toilets.

[Maxom75]

Always in the first hours and days the main grouping of the armed forces of any side of the conflict is destroyed, further those who belong to the reserve come into operation. Everything rests on a mobilization resource and fighting spirit.

[Eugene-Eugene]

Always in the first hours and days the main grouping of the aircraft is destroyed.

Is it the time traveler's passage? There has never been such a thing before, and for this option to work there must be a lot of if, which should be blocked by the military doctrines of the developed countries in defense.

[family tree]

Quote: Eugene-Eugene

Always in the first hours and days the main grouping of the aircraft is destroyed.

Is this a time traveler passage? laughing There has never been such a thing before

1941, the personnel died, giving the opportunity to evacuate industry and bristle. Near Moscow, miraculously survived, the cadets and the militia were thrown into battle, and then, early precocious leites, and reservists, then pulled up from the east. In the 43rd, we have a mobile reserve, generally ended. In the 42nd, in Stalingrad, units from those in the 41st.

[Maxom75]

Learn the story dear. So it was already and the example was 1941-1945. The army was virtually destroyed and a mobilization resource entered. The trouble is evident in our country with the education since you do not know this.

[family tree]

Quote: Алексей_К

In the Soviet army, tankers were trained in training for six months. And then 1.5 years in the combat unit. You just need to increase the service life again to 2 years.

Unloading bricks, harvesting firewood, shagistika on the parade ground and, in winter, lining cubes with a shovel, manually plucking grass, digging trenches from the fence until lunch, and after digging them.
For a year, you can prepare both a driver and a gunner, if you try it in this, even with complete interchangeability, and let the commander contract, although I also manage to increase it to one and a half, if there is talent, with increased money for the last six months.
And the fact that this Sienko declares, so on 72, will have to take Berlin, in the next, but cho, the tank is simple, will be mastered by the moment, only now, again mothers and reapers will howl.
That you, damn it, the machine stalled at Red Square, a world-wide tragedy, matyug, like this window dress, with organizational conclusions, do not punish the one who doesn’t do any damn thing, but the one who does it, for himself and those , has the right to make mistakes, it doesn’t happen otherwise, even crack .

[Aleksey_K]

Quote: perepilka

digging trenches from the fence to lunch, and after lunch digging them.

No jokes, pass off as reality. The tankers from the training were quite professional in our unit. I myself have been to this training unit repeatedly. There is a wonderful tank training ground with all the tracks and obstacles and with directors.
I agree that in the Soviet army, soldiers did a lot of what civilians are doing now. But do not turn service into labor feats alone. There was more combat training and our tankers fired and drove tanks better than cadets (future officers) who were in the nearby tank school.

[family tree]

Quote: Алексей_К

No jokes, pass as reality

And this is not jokes, this is the reality of urgency in the SA. I agree again, for two years, with outfits in the kitchen and guards, but in order to be taught how to drive and work, it was engineering equipment, and they did not spare cartridges and TNT, at least 25 hours a day. And not instead of night mining, unloading bricks, or leveling gutters at the dining room with plucking grass.
Even in this case, I think the year will be enough to prepare the driver, at least for the FCT, at least for the IMR, and with the base, at the recruit, at least in the form of a techie behind him, the last need to be.

[Kunar]

But any part of the SA was a military unit without any outsourcing. I am ashamed, but I learned how to cook in the army and how to handle all sorts of everyday things ... Besides performing basic duties

[REZMovec]

I don’t know where you served. We had no bricks and plucking grass, from the word ABSOLUTELY. Yes, they walked on the parade ground 4 hours a week, even after a week, because they were on the database for a week, and the second in the barracks. Fire training is also once every two weeks, at the shooting range - at least the store was fired from AKMs and a tape from the RPD, which is 30 and 100 rounds. More often two shops were fired, and at night shootings - always three stores and three ribbons. And mine preparation time was given three times for 4 hours a week. And also a melee - for battles with airborne sabotage groups. Garbage to suffer in the form of grass / leaves - there simply was no time left. Yes, he served in the medium-range strategic missile forces, in the REZMe ...

[BLACK-SHARK-64]

And we had a lot of bricks ... specially brought .... We used their hands and feet to dolbbills ... And the tankers cried when we wet them from the grenade launchers (blanks) ... So our Army was normal ( served in the mid-80s) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: perepilka

stepshop on the parade ground

If you don’t have the slightest idea what the drill is really for - read the material better before fantasizing.

[pv1005]

Quote: perepilka

Quote: Алексей_К

In the Soviet army, tankers were trained in training for six months. And then 1.5 years in the combat unit. You just need to increase the service life again to 2 years.

Unloading bricks, harvesting firewood, shagistika on the parade ground and, in winter, lining cubes with a shovel, manually plucking grass, digging trenches from the fence until lunch, and after digging them.
.

Apparently in those distant years when the Soviet boys served 2 years (who were lucky even 3) did not know such a word as outsourcing. And all this, the same elements of combat training.
Unloading bricks = OFP (general physical training).
Logging = offp + organization of survival in difficult climatic conditions.
Shagistics on the parade ground, well, nobody canceled combat training in the army.
Building cubes and plucking grass = camouflage classes (changing the landscape manually and the enemy in an unfamiliar area ....).
Digging trenches = tactics, equipment of a platoon stronghold.
But at the exit they got real men, not mama’s sons.

[Private Starley]

for sure, real men who can protect their women and make anything at home))) and what ingenuity was given by the army !!! from the side you can immediately see who served and who was showing off under the skirt of her mother ... and now there are a lot of them, and then women also complain that the men are getting smaller)))

[Kunar]

Hearts without practice rust ... A long time ago, a long time ago, a long time ago ..... a long time ago!

[Nirag013]

Well, I don’t know, I don’t know how it’s now, but I was taught my specialty very, very tightly. Six months later, they made me quite successfully a specialist in military repair and storage of BTT. The city of Vladimir, military unit 12609, 1977.
Py.Sy .: How many years have passed, I still remember the main things (small details and subtleties, of course, have been forgotten)! They taught conscientiously! There was, of course, "shagistika" - where else without it ... But the main thing, after all, was the hardware and military repair. Something like this.

[78bor1973]

Dear, they just took it off the tongue, they just beg for two years, in the present conditions it’s just a lifesaver!

[Mih]

You just need to increase the service life again to 2 years.

Yes - it is necessary if we don’t want to be at the very worst.

[t7310]

in the first battles, most of the professional army will be ground in battles, then who will fight on tanks?

and it doesn’t seem to you that the professionals, together with the tanks, will grind the question: who will fight in tanks and where will they take tanks? to withdraw from the reservation? then it would be logical to prepare a mobilization reserve for the number of tanks that are in the reservation and in the cheapest way without distracting the reservists from peaceful life during training, otherwise it turns out that he studied at the tank and they tell you there is no tank on the RPG saying you know where to hit the tank and the gun with one clip, but in order to understand where to beat a tank for an hour at a time, you can explain to a very large number of people at the same time, and start training reservists in educational institutions to start with schools and after graduation for a month in the army to consolidate the knowledge gained at school, so to speak, at large enterprises, it will sometimes be interesting for workers to distract from normal work, it will be cheaper by a lot and the reservist will turn out no worse, and will they even make use of reserves in a modern war? because if the pros do not stand up ... a special kind of troops - instructors who train professionals and each other in peacetime and during the war they are valuable personnel who train quick reservists (after all, tanks should not be withdrawn from the reserve in one day while tanks are specially trained to train from the reserve the troops train the most promising ones) I'm talking about the fact that the number of combat-ready weapons should approximately equal the number of people trained to use this particular weapon, and here we see that there are not so many tankers, rocket men, artillerymen, but the main quantity is infantry, well and train the required number for both pros and reserve and infantrymen, for example, to educate and keep pros and reservists, let them study in schools (schools) for a month, for any tanker there will be a longer term, and the concept of use and equipment will turn out different for pros armata a for reserve at best T72 and maybe T34-76, professionals (who are expensive the same as in m otherwise (in wartime)) should at least maintain their positions and not die until reinforcements arrive in the form of a relatively poorly trained reserve which in peacetime is not only much cheaper but pays taxes

[REZMovec]

That's somehow weak you here know the whole history of the Second World War. Near Moscow, the Germans didn’t defeat the mob and the militia — personnel units brought from over the Urals, from Siberia, and from the Far East. Yes, reservists, militias helped them, but it was the personnel officers who struck the main blow.
Yes, it was precisely the personnel troops that allowed the evacuation of enterprises and workers, yes, it was they who, at the cost of their lives, made it possible for the country to mobilize and, albeit in an accelerated program, prepare new fighters - tankmen, pilots, foot soldiers.
As for the tank forces, there will be not so many "Armat" - about 2,5 thousand units. It is for them that the professionals should serve - contract soldiers, with a contract of at least 5-7 years. With a contract of three to five years, there should be tankers on the T-80 of all modifications and the T-90MS. But conscripts and mobrezerv should prepare for the tank "Kalash" - T-72 and T-90A. What's the logic? T-14 is the most "tricky" tank, with great capabilities. It takes years to master them perfectly. The T-80 and T-90MS tanks are also not the simplest, and mastering them at a decent level should also not be in a month or two. But the simplest tanks should be the most widespread. At the same time, their use should not be independent, but in conjunction with the "more serious" tanks - T-80/90 and T-14. For example, platoon "Armat", platoon T80 / 90 and battalion "seventy-two". IMHO

[yehat]

the main thing is that personnel units from the Far East and from St. Petersburg (!), near Moscow, gave this time to somehow manage to somehow raise the combat readiness of the newly formed units. However, a significant part of them ended up being stupidly leaked in poorly prepared counterattacks. (end of autumn, winter offensive, Rzhev)

[Kunar]

Absolutely syzdyke .....

[veksha50]

Quote: Basarev

And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there.

Hmm ... But then a guy should get elementary military skills ???
Even in Switzerland, where there is no army, and the polls male population is undergoing military training and training ...

With Armata and other sophisticated equipment - yes, we need professionals ...
But with a machine gun, grenade, machine gun, you should be any male person ...

[Retvizan 8]

In my opinion, there should be a "deadline", but professionals should deal with complex techniques.
Our rocket was "prepared" by conscripts as well, but there were cases that only officers were involved in. Especially those who served in the PRTB will understand me.

[REZMovec]

He served on 8k63 in RTB, no, not a rocket engineer, in REZM, provided the opportunity for these same rocket officers to launch. So, out of more than a hundred people at the launch site, about forty were officers, the rest were conscripts: gunners, refuellers, drivers, dockers, diesel operators, compressors, and so on ... In two years the guys became real pros. Yes, there were some "underruns", but they, as a rule, were sent to the subsidiary farm. The missiles were run by professionals.

[Down House]

Quote: veksha50

Even in Switzerland, where there is no army,

In Switzerland, oddly enough, the CSO-GO army, those who wish to doubt, can always attack it. No one is willing!

[pv1005]

Quote: Down House

Quote: veksha50

Even in Switzerland, where there is no army,

In Switzerland, oddly enough, the CSO-GO army, those who wish to doubt, can always attack it. No one is willing!

It’s just that Switzerland was lucky they have no oil, and they are far from the sea, but around there are some champions of dermocracy and NATO members.

[REZMovec]

In Switzerland, the army is scanty, but each house is a fortified firing point, every man knows what to do in case of war, every year there is a training camp. And do not care, you mayor or peer, or a simple scavenger - in the safe of your house you have an assault rifle / rifle / machine gun / grenade launcher and a gun with ammunition for more than one hour of firing, grenades and uniforms. And so on until reaching the age of 50. Has reached, the state expels you from the rank, but gives you a bolt rifle and a pistol - suddenly come in handy to protect the country. I think a great role model.

[Mih]

Even in Switzerland, where there is no army,

This is a good example.

[yehat]

in Switzerland, combat training is reduced to actions within the framework of a small platoon.
for the modern army this is not enough.

[TanakaKenshin]

Fundamentally wrong statement.
A professional army cannot be large, and in case of war the army has a bad habit of striving for zero. Even very professional soldiers are mortal. The draft army allows you to always have at hand a reserve that does not need to be learned from absolute zero. It saves time. And time is not only money, but also initiative, and, as a result, victory. And what happens when there is no one to replace professionals, the situation that developed after Midway in the Japanese Air Force illustrates quite well.

Suffice it to say that the largest percentage of our soldiers who survived the war was among those who, shortly before the war, had been conscripted. An example of this is the only great-grandfather I found, Vereshchagin M.A. - Guardsman tanker (27th Guards Otbr), holder of the Order of the Patriotic War of both degrees. Drafted into the War in 1941, a few months after returning from military service.

In addition, given the length of our land borders, the maintenance of contract soldiers in the required quantities will fly into the budget not even a pretty penny, but into the ruble, and the tsar’s one. We are not the United States, which has two land borders, and not Europe, most of whose countries can be traveled around the perimeter per day.

[Dilshat]

About the Chinese "to fill up with corpses" is a very outdated information. 10 people who want one place in the Chinese army.

[diz1975]

What you said was initially wrong. I have always believed and still believe that the people should be prepared to defend their homeland. Yes, there are highly qualified areas where only professionals are allowed who have been preparing for many years. The conscription into the army and one and a half two years make a peasant out of yesterday's schoolboy capable of defending himself, his family, and his homeland. They give him a core, then, if necessary, they will call him up and quickly prepare him to his senses in training or if anything in the first battles. Yes, it is hard to serve, but alas, there is no other way, the "democratic" West will not spare us the peaceful. THE PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO RISE TO DEFEND THEIR HOMELAND.

[BYV]

Quote: Basarev

exclusively professional army

The Wehrmacht at one time relied solely on professionals. How did it end?

[Mikhail m]

The appeal of boys and retirees.

[izGOI]

In the Wehrmacht, by the way, sergeants knew how to command a platoon. And it was impossible to get a company to the command without passing an exam for the battalion commander.
But I am completely convinced that urgent but urgent need to be made mandatory for everyone (even if only for half a year), and military departments must be returned. A man simply must be able to use weapons.

[Kunar]

Not an argument. In the SA "castle" is a senior sergeant, a maximum sergeant major ... And a German sergeant-major corresponds to our ensign .... And with the return of military departments in universities, I completely agree.

[REZMovec]

It is necessary to return the NVP to schools and in high school to raise at least 10 days of training, including girls - to get the first skills in handling weapons, infantry shovels and tactics of separation in battle, for children, medical and fire training for girls. Each university should have a mandatory military department and, preferably, civil defense for white-ticketers and girls. IMHO

[Aleksey_K]

Quote: BYV

Quote: Basarev

exclusively professional army

The Wehrmacht at one time relied solely on professionals. How did it end?

You, what do you think, that 10 million Germans who died on the fronts were all professionals. Speak, do not speak. Almost all soldiers are ordinary people, and officers, as in the USSR, trained in their military training units. These are ordinary people. Professionalism comes with battles, over time, to those who think and find the right decisions on how to defeat the enemy.

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Basarev

And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there.

Fortunately, this idea of ​​an absolutely contract army has not yet been implemented by the "reformers"

[Kunar]

Don't understand the minusers Even AV Suvorov said that they fight not by number, but by skill ... Read "The Science of Winning" What is wrong in the previous post?

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: Basarev

exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there.

All conscripts there (following the course of a young soldier), and sometimes with accelerated training, poured their marching companies and battalions into the army and broke the Hitler ridge. Many of the rank and file due to their personal qualities made their way into officers and became Heroes of the Soviet Union. categorically. please.

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: Алексей_К

in the first battles, most of the professional army will be ground in battles, then who will fight on tanks?

Must and must fight the fighters from the so-called internal, and not special districts (however, this numbering is not respected now), and then there should be human reserves from draftees. The war with little Georgia showed well that it was necessary to move the reinforced ZKVO. And this is essentially against the two foot brigades and the adversary’s air brigade. For a hot meeting of NATO or the PLA with the deployment of one District (or whatever they are now .. you can’t do it). Yes, even if cf. In Asia, our troops will stabilize the situation: some contractors are the dream of the couch chief of the General Staff of the Russian Federation.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Nizhny Tagil will create a training center for professional crews for armored vehicles on the basis of "Armata".

Ural taxis ...! There it all begins ... (no offense) The back of Russia!

[VOLCHOXURAL]

Quote: MIKHAN

Ural taxis ...! There it all begins ... (no offense) The back of Russia!

Absolutely agree!!!

[Vladimirets]

Quote: VOLCHONOKSURALA

Quote: MIKHAN

Ural taxis ...! There it all begins ... (no offense) The back of Russia!
Absolutely agree!!!

Why, with your nickname.

[vadson]

Well, it’s not in vain that they say that the Urals are the supporting edge of the state

[uragan114]

From the border we spun the Earth back -
It was a matter of first.
But our battalion commander twisted it back,
Having kicked off from the Urals.
Finally, we were ordered to advance,
To select our spans and crumbs.

Vladimir Vysotsky: We Rotate the Earth - Lyrics http://mirpesen.com/en/vladimir-vysockij/my-vrashhaem-zemlju.html#ixzz3mpRtxIxc

[Kunar]

And beyond the Urals-Trans-Urals, and there it is, another distance ....

[KaPToC]

Quote: bhdir1946

Apparently, they are going to produce a car for peacetime. And how can this statement be understood differently?

You misunderstand, for conscripts they will gash a T-15 with an octopus cannon in an ordinary manned tower, they will call this device an anti-tank self-propelled gun, but in fact it will be a tank.

[SSeT]

Well, what a dumb vyser? You rave

[BABAY22]

And understand how you want. Or do you think that in wartime, 2000 Armat tanks will be dismissed and there will be 200, and each draftee will get a new iron horse.
PS. There is a storage base for mass appeal, which isn’t there. And T-64, and T-62, and T-72.
Enough for everyone. And to someone, we will not point a finger at them across the ocean, even a lot will appear.

[Dart2027]

It’s just that the technique is becoming more complex. You can learn how to use the machine in a month, but you can’t put anyone at the helm of the plane.

[zanoza]

In each regiment, equipped with "Armata", it would be nice to have a separate training company, where conscripts will undergo training. Selection in military enlistment offices, screenings during training and after a year: either at DMB and special account, or a ready-made contractor. The turnover of the contractors was, is and will be for various reasons, but here there will still be a prepared replacement, albeit a temporary but full-time unit, and the crew of the combatants. IMHO.

[dauria]

apparently they are going to let out a car for peacetime

in vain you have stuck cons. And the problem is serious. On some "pros" hope-garbage. In a real war, everyone will have to be raised clean. Well, with fittings, it's such a miracle that two tanks will be enough to crush the enemy. ..Lady, and they will break, and burn with people, it's just a tank. Where to get replenishment And if it is not massive, then why is it needed at all, so "exclusive"?

[Penetrator]

Quote: bhdir1946

Apparently, they are going to produce a car for peacetime. And how can this statement be understood differently?

Yeah, in the case of large-scale databases, it’s you, dear, mechanic or operator who will put you in such a tank. Or maybe a commander. At us, on the people's militia, the entire mob-system is being built.

[dmi.pris1]

Did you understand what you said? Is that Lada Grant? Any combat vehicle is created for war. Although ... if you want peace, get ready for war .. A couple of bellum ..

Quote: bhdir1946

Apparently, they are going to produce a car for peacetime. And how can this statement be understood differently?

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: bhdir1946

Apparently, they are going to produce a car for peacetime. And how can this statement be understood differently?

If you think about it, you need to understand that a professional must manage the equipment.

[Kunar]

Exactly)))) I bought the rights and drove off))))) On our roads, professionals are a dime a dozen. And all traffic rules know))) Only some of their knowledge is used, while others are not ....!

[Hubun]

I fully agree. Salag let yuzayut 72yku

[Kunar]

Uh, dear man, don’t tell me. If a heart made of steel, then a wooden dagger is good .... Know and love your weapon .... And it will never let you down ... And our dear and beloved, as you put it 72ka, wraps any egg on the trunk of any abrams .....

[vodolaz]

Well, it’s logical, just train him, and he went on a demobilization.

[Castor]

Quote: vodolaz

Well, it’s logical, just train him, and he went on a demobilization.

As far as I can judge from the stories of "demobels", today in the troops only those conscripts who are going to continue to serve under the contract are seriously trained. I fully understand the commanders - why teach a person what he himself does not want to learn and is not going to use.
The understanding that urgent service is the preparation of the future mobility reserve is unfortunately lost.

[Volga Cossack]

I fully agree - conscripts did not have time to master the old cars - and this is another completely level.

[marlin1203]

The article notes that specialists are now working to increase the power of the power plant of the newest tank. Now the engine power is about 1,5 thousand horsepower, but soon it will be increased to 1,8 thousand hp. - a bottle of nitrous oxide is stuck, well, there is a spoiler, carbon brakes, a subwoofer, in general, "a car for pumping")))))

[max702]

Come on ... How are we without conscripts ?? We don’t have any contractors, there aren’t any officers in the army ..
Sorry for the sarcasm, but .. When I heard from the general designer about the fact that at the parade dedicated to the 70th anniversary of the Victory in the Great Patriotic War, I took part in the most important technique of the PARADE by order of MOUCHERS !!!! WAS IN SHOCK !!!! THIS SORRY IDIOTISM IN THE TENTH DEGREE !!!
What a hell ?! To whom did they want to prove? That ARMATA drives easily? So this is not proved at parades, at parades beauty is shown! IT all comes from synchronicity and drill! That has not the slightest relation to modernity BUT BEAUTIFUL! And to whom did they prove anything? Pepelats stalled on the trainer like nothing special, but you need to understand the political situation! And do not give the thief the slightest clues to mock your beloved homeland BUT NO regular "economists" considered that the work of PROFESSIONALS would be TOO EXPENSIVE! And it's easier to get by with cheap performers .. Have done it .. And how? Are you satisfied? Yes, it was like a miserable episode .. BUT EVERYONE was crap !!! Especially the team delivered the evacuator pulling the frozen tank .. SHAME !!!
Excuse me, but EVERYTHING was done here! and Moscow oblast and factory representatives who failed to figure out the situation on time .. SHAME and SHAME! The bleating after that was pathetic and shameful! Some about one, others about another!
RS: I sincerely hope that the Ministry of Defense will find reserves and those "Armata" tanks that will be supplied to active units will still be equipped with professionals! Stop saving on matches !!!

[78bor1973]

Military equipment should be operated by trained servicemen, of varying degrees of education, and professionalism comes with time, and turning a trivial tank into a "synchrophasotron" is also RIDDEN!

[romanru4]

You have to serve for two years. One center will not prepare the required number of crews for new equipment. In general, the more complex military equipment, the fewer people will be able to fight on it, the more difficult it is to repair and restore, the more it will remain on the fields after the battles that are not in demand. Again, you will have to come up with something simple, reliable and easily digestible for reservists "on the go".

[Shadowcat]

Everything is a little easier. Firstly, the rotation of personnel for conscripts is higher than for conscripts, secondly secrecy, thirdly its saturation in the troops.

[shasherin.pavel]

[quote = sever.56] such a serious and expensive technique should ... that’s what Tupolev did when he got Stalin to have pilots no lower than captains fly on his Tu-2. A progressive step for the image of the Tu-2, but imagine a regiment where the youngest pilot captain ...

[REZMovec]

I would like a reference to the above, about the Tu-2 and captains. An interesting statement.

[Mih]

Today's one-year service

Well, the year of service is pure profanation.

[Kunar]

I agree. Previously, 2 years of military training, then 5 days practice, then 2 years of the army (which I’d ​​be glad to forget, but I don’t want to ), then memories and VO ... To tighten the theory ... And practice, will follow ....

[ksv1973]

Quote: sever.56

All right! No offense for our advanced youth, but, professionals must manage such a serious and expensive equipment. Today's one-year service can not afford to master it!

For the Russian Armed Forces, if I'm not mistaken, it is planned to supply 2300 copies of the T-14. Multiply this number by the number of crew members. And do not forget those who will "work" on soplatform "Armata" armored units. Where to get so many professionals? And this despite the fact that each "professional" needs to be provided in the slightest degree with housing in the perspective that will allow him to start a family.
Conclusion:
1. Urgent service for 2 years.
2. The most severe, up to 15-year prison terms, suppression of "bullying".
3. Remaining on the contract - solid "lifting" with the condition of their return in case of termination of the contract due to improper behavior of the contractor.

[t7310]

to save on conscripts, to save those saved on vocational training and preparing reserves in schools, as a result, a combat-trained army and conscripts also pay taxes for two years, gradually prepare schools in the army after school to work out joint activities with the pros, as a result, the pros the loot that was spent on conscripts and reservists are also there who also pay taxes

[REZMovec]

We take 10000 units on the Armata platform - that's 30000 people. What is this amount for a 150 million state? Even for a million-strong army, this is nothing. Don't you want to think about pilots, sailors, rocket men, etc.? There will be more of them. The state must turn its face to the army, to its defenders. Provide them with a decent life, but also demand sacrifice, for the sake of his interests. How else?
By the way, the current contractors are very saddened - I cannot look without shudder at the "paratroopers" taken prisoner in Ukraine, at the murderer of the Armenian family ... It seems that they are rowing according to the contract of the first comer. The Soviet paratrooper was at least 180 cm tall, physically strong. And these squabbles, intelligence in any eye did not shine. Likewise, the murderer of Armenians - there certainly is everything "extinguished" in the sense of intellect, I will even say more - a criminal crawls out of his eyes ...

[Samurai3X]

I doubt that a biennial could ...

[.Strannik.]

I agree that young people have something to strive for. What is achieved by labor is dearly valued.

[Ezhaak]

Quote: sever.56

No offense to our advanced youth,

What grudges? These "advanced juveniles" do not want to serve at all.
As the "Komsomolskaya Pravda" wrote at the time, roughly the beginning of the 80s, Muscovites should not serve, for this there are remote cities and villages.

[31R-US]

Let’s now pray with the whole of Russia for Armata since it’s so expensive. Practical training of conscripts is mandatory in every tank unit, it’s impossible in another way. There are a lot of intelligent young people who will put the tank in half a year in half.
Or the enemy, wait now, the pros will give him a lift at you from Armata, he will not seem enough.
Increase the service life

[Alexey-74]

I definitely support a permanent crew consisting of professionals who will maintain a fighting vehicle at the proper level, and what about conscripts? came and went and there is no interest, there is no responsibility, he needs to fuck his own ....

[yehat]

one-year service will allow
but motivation is not.

[jjj]

For some reason, it seems that the tank’s tower will be different

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

More professional?

[figwam]

My favorite tank.

[bastard]

Quote: figvam

My favorite tank.

The locomotive on the goose, a powerful beast.

[Thunderbolt]

Bought today the magazine "Science and Technology" --- they offer to buy posters with Armata. But I would buy a sticky model, I have a couple of T, and others (already German T). But I mainly collect military aviation from the SA and the Russian Federation. And there are NATO members. They are hanging on my fishing lines and attacking each other.

[bastard]

Quote: villain

The locomotive on the goose, a powerful beast.

And what, gentlemen-comrades, really made a bad and weak machine? Does the "Armata" have a moped engine? Well, this is not for me, contact UVZ, gentlemen, minus players. If only one person could justify his disadvantage. I'm not at all offended, honestly, I'm just curious, is this a manifestation of the herd reflex? Answer at least somebody, ay!
PS: I’m not going to deny it out of principle, I’m not so educated.

[Mordvin 3]

All backing tracks from your nick hid. Scary, damn it.

[saenara]

You have a problem with the expression of thoughts, for which they paid. They would write that it’s just a tank, and with a capacity from a diesel locomotive, they would pour you the pluses :-)
The Russian language - it is such a multifaceted one, almost looked at it - and is already completely misunderstood :-)

[bastard]

Quote: Mordvin 3

All backing tracks from your nick hid. Scary, damn it.

He is a handsome muskin and very kind, he eats with his hands.

Quote: saenara

You have a problem with the expression of thoughts, for which they paid. They would write that it’s just a tank, and with the capacity of a diesel locomotive, they would pour you the pluses

At one time I worked as a turner in the repair service on the railway. For me, a diesel locomotive is power, I’ve pawed with my own hands. Pistons the size of a head and more, connecting rods - a hernia can be earned and all this works in concert, like a watch. Even in the shunting TEM 2 1200 l. S., about the trunk - I am silent. By the way, on the submarines are the same diesel diesels, modified a little.
In the late 80s, the TEP 80 diesel locomotive was built in the USSR, which still has an unbroken speed record of 271 km / h, two sections, each with a 20-cylinder turbodiesel of 6000 liters. with. Pretty boy!
If someone did not understand the allegory - what to do, not I came up with the Bologna system and the exam. and it’s not my business to reduce the Russian language to 70-80 hours a week, and increase the foreign language to 220-240 (probably to better understand the gentleman’s commands). Well, that's okay.
Damn, something the video is not inserted. Here is the tuta:
https://youtu.be/DWDdNe_zx5A

[Babr]

Under the hood of Mueller.

Quote: villain

Damn, something the video is not inserted. Here is tuta

[Disant]

get fucked up. car driver - man

[bastard]

Quote: villain

it’s not my business to reduce the Russian language to 70-80 hours a week, and increase the foreign language to 220-240

I apologize, made a reservation. Correctly read: 70-80 hours per month.

[saenara]

I also worked on the railway and I know, for example, that a two-section shed VL-80 can sneak up close behind and hear his figs ;-) But if I use such a comparison, then I will describe why so that they will understand me. Because praised by the method "well done, crept up like an electric locomotive" will not always be able to appreciate the beauty of a metaphor, or even be offended.
For me, too, the locomotive is a concentration of power and strength, but for many it is just a big and dirty piece of iron, so check, check :-)

[svp67]

At this stage, this is certainly correct, but if the draft remains in our army, then you want it - you do not want it, but you will also have to allow conscripts to operate this equipment

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

What for? In the event of hostilities, they are not really printed on the printer. In the meantime, it will be possible to produce and train professionals.

[svp67]

Quote: Uncle VasyaSayapin

But why?

And then, that there is such a thing as preparing a mobilization reserve ... And it will have to be prepared precisely from conscripts.

[sever.56]

Sergey,
Remember that in the days of the USSR, the Navy served 4 years, 3 years in other troops, then it was reduced to 3 and 2, respectively. In the Navy, equipment was always more complicated, apart from the Strategic Missile Forces, Air Defense and RTV, therefore, almost six months, a year, it took them to master the equipment and become a specialist. Now the complexity of technology has increased by an order of magnitude, and in order to master it, there will be few years if you do not take children with higher, or at least secondary technical education, into military service.

[svp67]

Quote: sever.56

in order to master it, there will be few years

Military equipment has always been the most complex, from the fact that two aspects were produced here.
The first is the designer’s talent, which made it possible to make a VERY sophisticated technique available to conscript soldiers. The second one - be that as it may, but to prepare a mobile reserve from conscripts who have already served on tanks of the previous generation is MUCH easier than starting to train them from ZERO.
Now the process of preparing the mobile reserve is changing and very soon it will take place in a completely different way than before, by the way, the Nizhny Tagil UTs and others like it fit very well into the new system.

[sever.56]

Quote: svp67

It’s MUCH easier to prepare a mobile reserve from conscripts who have already served in tanks of the previous generation MUCH easier than starting to train them from ZERO.

Sergey, you say - MOBREZERV, but this concept itself suggests that a person who ALREADY has served in the army is mobilizing. I agree with you if you mean the RETRAINING of people who have already served urgent, and called up for training to learn how to work on new technology.

[REZMovec]

conscripts who have already served on tanks of the previous generation are MUCH easier than starting to train them from ZERO

Among the authors of "Armata" there is an opposite opinion, read the interview until May this year.

[veksha50]

Quote: sever.56

Now the complexity of technology has increased by an order of magnitude, and in order to master it, there will be few years if you do not take children with higher, or at least secondary technical education, into military service.

As an example, people with higher polytechnical education, at least with secondary vocational ...

In principle, on the basis of one of the tank schools, you can train a staff sergeant, as they did in Ryazan ...

Well, again, it all comes down to budget money ... It is necessary to make the contract service attractive even for ordinary people, but also with great demands ... That is, to find leverage so that a person feels sorry for losing service ...

[sever.56]

Quote: veksha50

In principle, on the basis of one of the tank schools, you can train a staff sergeant, as they did in Ryazan ...

And again: - they prepare sergeants-CONTRACTORS, and the selection is such that - mom - do not worry ... Competition almost 10 people per seat. So it can be seen as something attractive, with such a competition! By the same principle, it is possible to train professional tankers for the "Armata", as stated in the article!

[ALEA IACTA EST]

In the hands of experienced fighters, such a tank will probably turn into a real Doomsday machine.
And it’s good that they are already starting to modernize it.

[Oleg16661]

Correctly. The best weapons in the hands of conscripts will show themselves well, but nothing more. In the hands of a professional, this weapon will be just a hell of a machine, will live longer on the battlefield and bring more benefits.

[Dima Čalevo]

in, 1800 horses, the dynamics will be incredible, I guess)

[Fregate]

It seems they always wrote that now it is 1200 hp, and it will be 1500.

[16112014nk]

Strangled with 1500 hp up to 1200 to increase engine life.

[katalonec2014]

There’s nothing to discuss here, everything’s right, the equipment is expensive, high-tech, and therefore the crews must be professional, and most importantly permanent ... for example, like those guys who represented Russia in biathlon.

[Alexey RA]

Correctly. And then the draftees - they are so ... some right there will arrange a rush on the railway, others will start testing physics.

[APASUS]

The guys did not have time to get used to the army, as they already had a demobilization on their nose. A decent salary + signing a contract and then training and in full for any kind of equipment.

[Knight Rider]

Armata for professional military personnel is the right decision. And a Kurgan with a boomerang would also be so necessary.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Following the logic of Oleg Sienko, if the contract soldiers are professionals, then the draftees are amateurs ...

[veksha50]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

Following the logic of Oleg Sienko, if the contractors are professionals, it means conscripts are lovers.

Just draftees in a short time take an elementary training course to fulfill, if necessary, their constitutional obligation to protect their homeland ...

[Throw]

Then it is logical to return NVP to schools.

[veksha50]

Quote: Lance

Then it is logical to return NVP to schools.

How much has been said about this ...

[Evgeniy30]

Quote: sever.56

All right! No offense for our advanced youth, but, professionals must manage such a serious and expensive equipment. Today's one-year service can not afford to master it!

And I disagree. What if a full-scale third world war? Where can we get so many trained "pros"? I don’t understand at all that everyone ran into some kind of contract army? Nothing better than mobilization has not yet been invented. In the course of hostilities, all the profi will be knocked out, as in the Second World War, what are we going to do? It is necessary to return the two-year service, and in two years you can prepare an excellent professional, who will then go to the reserve. Anyway, the T-72 will be the main workhorse, because the Armata, with all its capabilities and coolness, is crammed with electronics that will be blocked by the enemy. And it is not known how in general all these bells and whistles will behave in the course of real hostilities.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Eugene30

I don’t agree. What if a full-blown third world?

If the full-scale third world war begins, then instead of Armata a completely different weapon will speak

Quote: Eugene30

Where can we get so many trained "pros"?

It’s clearly said-OPEN A TRAINING CENTER.

Quote: Eugene30

Anyway, the T-72 will be the main workhorse, because the Armata, with all its capabilities and coolness, is stuffed with electronics that will be blocked by the enemy.

And why bother, immediately transfer to the T-34 and then no electronics and adversary can block anything

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Eugene30

During the fighting, all profi will be knocked out, as in the Second World War, what will we do?

A full-scale war is likely to be only nuclear, and neither contract soldiers nor conscripts will particularly help. But in a limited war such as the war in Afghanistan, Chechnya, and in South Ossetia, contract soldiers can show themselves better than conscripts.
It is no secret to anyone that during the war in Chechnya many untrained conscripts were sent to fight in Chechnya, which led to great casualties.

[goblin xnumx]

In your opinion, a trained pro can send a commander with his stupid order and independently carry out a task, what could conscripts in Chechnya not be able to do?

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Leshy74

In your opinion, a trained pro can send a commander with his stupid order and independently carry out a task, what could conscripts in Chechnya not be able to do?

I’m not talking about commanders, there have been cases when a soldier was sent directly to the military registration and enlistment office in Chechnya, the conscript didn’t even take the course of the young soldier, and he is already being sent to hell.
As for the war in Chechnya, and the storming of Grozny, I wouldn’t enter the city at all, place 300-400 howitzers around the city and iron it for a month (all the same, thousands of shells were used up in the 2000s due to the expiration of the storage period) storage bases exploded).

[Cat man null]

Quote: Leshy74

trained pros can send commander

"To send" a commander in a combat situation is fraught.

It is not forbidden to do what was ordered, "on your own", using a smart idea ... somehow

PS: "To the stock financier" (I have this bastard in an emergency, so I will answer .. indirectly):

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

there have been cases when a soldier was sent directly to the military enlistment office in Chechnya, the conscript didn’t even take the course of the young soldier, and he is already being sent to hell

Lies, stars and provocations ..

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

I wouldn’t enter the city at all

And you didn’t enter .. the guys were the first to enter from my regiment, I just quit ..

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

still shells in the 2000's were disposed of by thousands due to the end of their shelf life

Yeah .. and you would make people shoot them .. eagle, damn it, indoor ..

[Castor]

Quote: Eugene30

all profi will knock out, as in WWII

How many contractors were in service in the Red Army in 1941?
The professional military is good because it is not easy to kill him. In the T-14, the crew is protected like no other tank. So in the course of real hostilities, a shortage of tanks, rather than trained crews, is more likely to arise. So it should be, a person is more expensive than a car.

[TSOOBER]

So five and three years, it's almost a contract

[veksha50]

Quote: Castor

How many contractors were in service in the Red Army in 1941?

Guys, it's time to stop measuring modern weapons and military operations since 1941 ...

Well, you, as small children ...

We need tanks, first of all, not for a full-scale third world war, but for a war of the level of the European theater of operations ... And when a "full-scale" one starts, the survivors may envy the dead ...

[APASUS]

Quote: Eugene30

I don’t agree. What if a full-blown third world?

Change the profile of the dissenting you ours, for starters.

[Castor]

Quote: APASUS

Change avatar

What is the badge about? Normal red guy, and settled down fine.

[Izotovp]

And for conscripts T-90?

[Aleksey_K]

Quote: Izotovp

And for conscripts T-90?

T-90 of all modifications produced only 1800 pieces. So you need only 5400 conscripts? There will not be enough tankers - for one day of modern combat.
No professional army can withstand long battles, similar to the battles in the Great Patriotic War. Therefore, you must have a huge mobilization reserve, trained tankers. You just need to learn and train at least 2 years and then annual fees. The US and NATO armies are much larger than the Russian (I just am silent about the Chinese), so a reserve of trained tankers is very necessary.

[Izotovp]

Grinding 1800 tanks in one day is not so easy. But the fact that the reserve should be and change the approach to preparing the reserve must be urgently agreed.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Алексей_К

No professional army can withstand long battles, similar to the battles in the Great Patriotic War.

And will they be? Who are we going to fight long and tedious with?
With china? So the outcome of this war will be decided by attacks on the rear - on hydroelectric power stations and economic zones.
With NATO? Here, in general, the landowners need to hold out for half an hour or an hour - until the cycle of "making a decision to strike - communicating to the performers - working out the launch cycle" is completed.

[Alexey RA]

T-72B3. And his next "modernization iterations".

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Do not be mischievous .... They will start learning directly from UVZ ... To know on the "tooth" ..! And then ...

[alone]

)))) Each contractor is a yesterday’s conscript or a cadet. Do you think that they become professionals in the womb? Suppose you entrusted the equipment to contract soldiers. And in 10 years what will happen. The old people will control the tanks and other equipment? I don’t know who owns it an idea, but it’s wrong.

[engineer74]

Contractors are also leaving for the reserve! How much is our minimum contract? 5 years? At least it allows you to master the "profession"! It's not all bad!
Until old age, hardly anyone will serve in an "ordinary" position, 5-15 years and in civilian life. And, most importantly, even with all the desire, he will not lose his skills until the end of his life, let alone after 6 months. training and the same amount of service. We need such a reserve!
IMHO

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: lonely

this is yesterday’s conscript or cadet.

And in a year you can prepare a good tanker, only he should spend this year at a training ground in the tank, and not marching down the parade ground in the barracks, do not understand what to do.
How combatant will help to defeat the enemy in the war?

[alone]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

And in a year you can prepare a good tanker, only he should spend this year at a training ground in the tank, and not marching down the parade ground in the barracks, do not understand what to do.
How combatant will help to defeat the enemy in the war?

Well, what am I talking about? Suppose conscripts are removed from Armata and from other equipment? Then what will happen? in 10-15 years, there will already be no one to control him. Draftees should know and be able to control equipment

[Kuzyakin15]

Alone:
Let served a long time ago, but ...
The best training for the crews was with combat training vehicles, and with combat vehicles, as a rule, it was lame. Mechanics with combat training vehicles were a cut above that of combat vehicles.
I myself was on a combat training. Who can not agree?

[REZMovec]

Why be surprised?
How often in combat units did the mechanics go to the tankodrome? And in training? 5-10 times more often? Here comes the result.

[Barakuda]

Drill, as such, is no longer there.

[Castor]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

How combatant will help to defeat the enemy in the war?

I’ve already forgotten a lot, I’m definitely not quoting, but the point is this. Stroy - deployment of military personnel for their JOINT ACTION on foot or by CAR.
Buildings are not only ceremonial, but also marching or fighting. Proper and complete drill training trains soldiers ... I understand what.

[t7310]

and not marching on the parade ground in the barracks, doing not understand what

drill training speaks of the degree of coherence of the formation’s actions, they won’t drive everyone along the training grounds so that coherence of the actions there with binoculars is examined, and this is how they demonstrate part of the information war

And in a year you can prepare

and in a year it’s possible, but it’s more effective when a person has been engaged in business for more than 10 or maybe 20 years, professionally, it’s definitely harder to defeat and even more so to kill, and conscripts are not so effective where even after serving a year they don’t understand why, for example, drill training is necessary, I would suggest for everyone to make a month of service who likes it and who may not like to serve until retirement, work out the main points during the month in case of war and are free, in reserve, since you can also teach a lot in a month

[79807420129]

The aroma of the tank is very serious and professionals should act in it, but over time, when the T-14s begin to enter the troops in larger numbers, you still have to train conscripts.

[Maksus]

There will not be enough armatures for the whole country, they will only be in heavy brigades, and therefore only "double basses" will be able to control them. And for medium brigades and individual TB (if there are still any, somewhere other than the Marine) - there will be T-90 / 72B2. Probably so.

[Vladimir 1964]

Of course, this is not a machine for conscripts, it is for professionals.

The idea, of course, is competent, but as Sergei (svp67) correctly pointed out, how will the issue of the mobilization reserve be resolved. And in this regard, won't the "Armata" become a presentation type of weapon?

That kind of thought arose.

[veksha50]

Quote: Vladimir 1964

And in this regard, won't the "Armata" become a presentation type of weapon?

It seems to me that it will not become the main one - in terms of mass production ... It is too complicated, expensive, and there are enough problems in training and operation, as well as in production ...

But I hope it won't become "presentation" either ... As it used to be - the reserve of the Supreme Command ... Guards - in the truest sense of the word ...

[Vladimir 1964]

Quote: veksha50

It seems to me that it will not become the main one - in terms of mass production ... It is too complicated, expensive, and there are enough problems in training and operation, as well as in production ...

But I hope it won't become "presentation" either ... As it used to be - the reserve of the Supreme Command ... Guards - in the truest sense of the word ...

Good comment, George, I liked it.

Like so.

[NEXUS]

Quote: veksha50

It seems to me that the main one - in terms of mass - it will not ...

I don’t agree. When Armata goes into the series (like PAK FA), the production will be debugged and cheaper. So the designers say. The first cars are clear that it’s expensive, but it’s NEW TECHNOLOGY, and therefore expensive.
I think that when training crews, reducing the cost of vehicles, as well as continuing work during military operation, the entire line of Almaty, Kurganets and Boomerang will be brought to such a level that the training courses for the crews will be said not for 6 months, but only 2 .. .
And therefore, I think, Armata will eventually become the main tank of Russia.

[veksha50]

Quote: NEXUS

And therefore, I think, Armata will eventually become the main tank of Russia.

God forbid, God forbid ... Everyone has the right to their point of view ...
Only for this - for Armata to become the main tank - it takes time, but we actually do not have it ... Look how the wolves overlaid and bite their teeth ...

[NEXUS]

Quote: veksha50

Only for this - for Armata to become the main tank - time is needed, but we actually do not have it ...

Do you seriously believe that Europe will trample on Russia? Hmm ... they will bark until the master gives them a command, but at the same time they cling to his feet.
And about P_I_N_D_O_STANA, there is something to answer for their aggression. As long as there is a nuclear triad, they will bark only because of the fence. And there we will see what to do with this brothel, I’ll either marinate or fry with a beam.

[veksha50]

Quote: NEXUS

Do you seriously believe that Europe will trample on Russia?

Trample is not Europe as such ...

World wars - both the first and second - began with provocations ...

In this case, for what purpose do Polish and German pilots (pilots from non-nuclear countries) learn to use nuclear weapons ??? For what purpose is this TNW contained in the same Germany ???

But what kind of plane and where it will fly, and whose pilot will hold the control stick, and where he will gurgle the "gift" - this will not interest Russia anymore ... Where he came from - they will receive ...

And staffers are far beyond the sea-ocean ... And it’s not a fact that a competent decision will be made to immediately wet just the overseas provocateur, and not the idiotic satellites ...

[NEXUS]

Quote: veksha50

In this case, for what purpose do Polish and German pilots (pilots from non-nuclear countries) learn to use nuclear weapons ??? For what purpose is this TNW contained in the same Germany ???

Horror just catch up. Checking our brother for the thickness of the gastrointestinal tract.

Quote: veksha50

From where they arrived - they will receive ...

Let him fly first, the brave Polish super ace. Otherwise, there are different encounters along the way, starting from "Willow" and ending with Krasukha.

Quote: veksha50

And the staff are far beyond the sea-ocean ...

Well, if you swim, then yes, far away. And the Governor, Sineve or Mace, like knocking on a neighbor for salt.

[Kuzyakin15]

Nexus:
To prepare a furs or a gunner in two months? .... I don’t know. It’s probably possible if you select with a specialist those who are particularly predisposed to fast learning. And so, I think, in a couple of months you can teach to pull a "stick". Although on Armata levers no, the steering wheel seems to be.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Kuzyakin15

In two months to prepare a fur or gunner? ..

And why not then? And you rightly noted, "you do not need to pull the sticks." Because the easier the control of the tank, the more effective it is in battle. I am sure that the designer took care of this.
In addition, there will be an operational period, during which additional changes will be introduced. Let's see.

[pv1005]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: Kuzyakin15

In two months to prepare a fur or gunner? ..

And why not then? And you rightly noted, "you do not need to pull the sticks." Because the easier the control of the tank, the more effective it is in battle. I am sure that the designer took care of this.
In addition, there will be an operational period, during which additional changes will be introduced. Let's see.

There is such a sequence in teaching KNOWLEDGE-SKILLS-ABILITY, so in "two" months you can give some knowledge, some skills, but the skill is developed over the years. Accordingly, the full training cycle will not be performed. Why do we need dropouts?

[goblin xnumx]

As the former first deputy chief of the Armored Armed Forces Directorate of the Defense Ministry, Lieutenant-General Y. Kovalenko, stated, “in the future, the Armata tank should become the main combat unit of the Russian Ground Forces armament.”

[Castor]

Quote: Vladimir 1964

will the "Armata" become a presentation type of weapon

For example, during the Second World War, only the most experienced aces pilots could fight on "Airacobras". As the saying goes, "and cho"?

[dsi]

Of course, this is not a machine for conscripts, it is for professionals.

Have you seen the conscript at the helm of a fighter? Armata is not a brush with lime or a broom. Although professionals are needed here, seriously. We see Ukraine as an example, when conscripts rule. Therefore, I am sure that the country is ruled by professionals.

[Afinogen]

It is clear from the article that the "Armata" tank is expensive and the conscripts will not be allowed to break it, they will hang a sign "Do not touch with your hands"

A technique that is entrusted to conscripts without fear.

[BABAY22]

What, in our army now are such super mops and super buck?
Well, how will it break? Old Petty Officer will not allow such equipment to his company. It’s easier to be.

[Afinogen]

Quote: BABAY22

What, in our army now are such super mops and super buck?

Nothing can be done, "nano" technologies, progress does not stand still.

[BABAY22]

This "progress" will last a week, no more. And this "progress" is not maintainable.

[Cat man null]

The plans of the Russian Defense Ministry are to attract exclusively professional servicemen to service on the latest Russian tank and other armored vehicles on the Armata platform. Soldiers serving on conscription will not be involved in the operation of the "Armata"

Strongly support. What a conscript can do with a tank is simply incomprehensible to the mind .. from life:

- the warrior (mechvod) at the training ground, in the winter, he went .. forgot to open the blinds. Engine overheated, engine burned out
- warrior (foreman of the company, not horseradish from the hill). Shooting on the director of the stock, watching the divisional. The car reaches the end of the track the gun never fires! It turned out - I didn’t put the type of projectile (I loaded the RP, put it cumulative). The conveyor is spinning, looking - where is it cumulative there? And neta .. Curtain
- landfill, summer. One of the AZRs is knocked out of the driver’s drive (Rupture Protection Machine .. such an electric thing, a la automatic fuse. It looks like a toggle switch is almost, only big). Mekhvod, instead of reporting to whom it is necessary - tears off a branch from the nearest bush and this mother jammed AZR.. Further everything burns that this АЗР tried to protect ..

No, well, what for conscripts to Armata ..

[Afinogen]

Quote: Cat Man Null

Strongly support. What a conscript can do with a tank is simply incomprehensible to the mind ..

I recalled a joke right in the subject


They sent dogs into space: Belka and Strelka. And the Resident of the Far North was equipped to look after them. Control communication. Command point: "Squirrel!" - Woof! - Press the red button! - Bow-wow! - Arrow! - Woof! - Press the black button! - Bow-wow! - Chukchi! - Bow-wow! - Don't bark, but feed the dogs and DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING !!!

[Cat man null]

Quote: Athenogen

feed the dogs and DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING !!!

Exactly .. I’m not the most ridiculous (sad) one yet ... they won’t believe it, they’ll laugh at nafig

[pv1005]

Quote: Cat Man Null

Quote: Athenogen

feed the dogs and DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING !!!

Exactly .. I’m not the most ridiculous (sad) one yet ... they won’t believe it, they’ll laugh at nafig

Why not believe it !? Who served in the army does not laugh at the circus. Especially if he served all his life.

[Mercenary]

From the very beginning, it must be so, otherwise they arranged (an incident) on the main square of the country. The ensigns "do not care" for a long time there is no business (in general) to the good official should be approached.

[tyras85]

This is very true. "Odnogodniki" will not be able to master such a machine-ditch. Offer-2 years in the RF Armed Forces, or a Contract for 5 years! With the receipt of basic education ...

[Barakuda]

Well, so in the USSR soldiers-sergeants received categories and a profession.

[exalex2]

How can you trust someone that is not. Trust both "Armata" and the T-50. Well, there are none .. What's the problem ?? So it was originally intended. "Investment" (magic word, or words?) Is unknown what, fuck their mother. The main thing is to report. Clap your hands, slaves.

[Barakuda]

He asked, without an answer, And if the sub-caliber hit, As the crew with a shaking hand finger on the icon to get on the display. What is jerk, I know .. Well then, the technique wasn’t the same, everything was on autopilot, but in mechanics.
Or they as cosmonauts-paratroopers need to be trained.

[trigger]

I see that such sofa experts gathered here, all as one supported the thesis from the article, and even came up with excuses about the complexity of technology and professionals. Of course, if you don’t have your own thoughts, you won’t wonder what this armature is positioned as a car that anyone can handle, starting from car control, pointing like in computer games and ending with the fact that even conscripts were sent to a parade and here it turns out only for " professionals "? If you think a little, it becomes obvious that the armature is simply produced in a scanty amount and that they simply will not be enough for conscripts either now or later.

[Barakuda]

Have you ever been in a tank, not on an excursion? Well then either shut up, or say what the commander is holding with his hands .. And how the shells are located ..

[trigger]

Yeah, there are several pieces of fittings in the country, and here the excursions turn out to be held. Now all Ukrainians or shell-shocked?

[Cat man null]

Quote: trigger

and that this armature is positioned as a machine with which anyone can handle

Did you just come up with it? If not themselves - a link to the document "positioning".

Quote: trigger

sent to the conscript parade

Blatnyak was sent there. Commanders-in-chief. Having removed mechanical drives from the factory from machines that are really pros.

Quote: trigger

it turns out it is only for "professionals"

Exactly

Quote: trigger

If you think a little, it becomes obvious

... that Trigger has an incontinence of words ..

Quote: trigger

fittings in the country are a few pieces, but here excursions turn out to be held

You were asked if you were in the tank .. not necessarily in Armata, in general - in a live tank ..

There weren’t any campaign, at least judging by this:

Quote: trigger

pointing like in computer games

[Haye]

Quote: trigger
and that this armature is positioned as a machine with which anyone can handle

Did you just come up with it? If not themselves - a link to the document "positioning".

Not a document, but here they say it

[Cat man null]

Quote: Haye

Not a document, but here they say it

"They say" is not a document

But seriously - let's not confuse "the ability to drive" (to drive a circle around the tank course) with the ability to fight in a car. With the ability to fight on .. not quite serviceable, for example, a car.

For this we need pros. And the pros can’t be done in a month. And for the year - from conscripts - also unlikely.

Not to mention the fact that Armat has not yet been planned much. And manning with professionals (whether they are contract soldiers, officers, or I don’t know who else) is the only right decision, IMHO.

If suddenly Armata someday becomes mass - it is clear that conscripts will be pulled up. As part of mixed crews, for example. Moreover, according to rumors, there the commander can replace the mechvoda, for example ..

Voooot ...

[Evgeniy30]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: Eugene30

I don’t agree. What if a full-blown third world?

If the full-scale third world war begins, then instead of Armata a completely different weapon will speak

Quote: Eugene30

Where can we get so many trained "pros"?

It’s clearly said-OPEN A TRAINING CENTER.

Quote: Eugene30

Anyway, the T-72 will be the main workhorse, because the Armata, with all its capabilities and coolness, is stuffed with electronics that will be blocked by the enemy.

And why bother, immediately transfer to the T-34 and then no electronics and adversary can block anything

1. Actually, the war is already underway, just the Americans are fighting with the wrong hands. Will you throw an atomic bomb in Syria, or immediately to Ukraine?

2. Excellent, during the Second World War there were also training centers, where tractor drivers were retrained for tankers, and for pilots "take off and landing". The experience of ancestors is the right thing ...

3. In vain do you jerk when a war is going on, then the equipment must correspond to wartime. Those. simpler, more reliable, cheaper, mass. Especially in the conditions of modern warfare, where radio suppression, electronic blocking, interference, etc. are widely used.

[bastard]

Quote: Eugene30

when war breaks out, technology must correspond to wartime. Those. simpler, more reliable, cheaper, mass. Especially in the conditions of modern warfare, where radio suppression, electronic blocking, interference, etc. are widely used.

Eh, dear man! I agree with you, but take a look at our drivers, they would have pressed a button - and victory. Neither Putin nor Medvedev served in the army, they did not crawl in real mud. Saint Demetrius the iPhone-bearer generally suggested making an electronic voting and counting system, that's where you can do not 146%, but all 250%. Rogozin the dreamer talks about some kind of "smart bullet", like, he shot up, and she flew around the corner at the target. These fantasies of the Vesnukhins will come back to haunt us.

[plotnikov561956]

Weapons of increased complexity requiring competent operation .. only in the competent hands of professionals ... namely professionals .. from the word PROFESSION .. !!! It remains to add on my own .. it's just a competent solution to such a question

[Penzyac]

Quote: plotnikov561956

Weapons of increased complexity requiring competent operation .. only in the competent hands of professionals ... namely professionals .. from the word PROFESSION .. !!! It remains to add on my own .. it's just a competent solution to such a question

But, all this does not mean that conscripts will not be introduced to Armata at all. I think at first they will be taught some kind of "introductory" and "short" courses, and as the troops are saturated with this technique, there will be reasons to more in-depth teach the mob-reserve control, maintenance and combat use of Armata both on simulators and as part of mixed training crews parts on real tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and other equipment on a new base (Armata, Kurganets-25, Boomerang ...). Although, of course, only sufficiently trained crews will "fight" on the Armata, especially since, as announced, the maximum interchangeability of all crew members and their division into mech-water, commander and weapons operator should become quite formal ...

[Alexey Boukin]

Quote: veksha50

Hmm ... But then a guy should get elementary military skills ???

Yes, every conscript must receive elementary military skills while serving in the army. And then, as in Soviet times, you need to call them for retraining. introduce new equipment, teach it to use. Each reserve soldier must have his own military specialty and at any time be ready to professionally begin his duties.

[Barakuda]

And what are the "elementary" ones? Serve any Kalash, break the uniform on a thorn, be able to eat it, jump over the fence, throw a grenade?
Well, revive the Military Commissar at school. . I knew this baby talk how I was born, Father, sorry, I was a battalion commander then. .

[TOR2]

With regard to training, the conscript must be trained in civilian life, in the educational institution where he receives a profession, or in the appropriate centers. It will turn out much cheaper and more efficiently, and in a year of service, he will undergo "industrial practice"
As for World War 3, it will not be similar to the previous ones. Thousands of draftees will be simply useless if the industry stops. Therefore, the main preparation is a quick cover for their vital centers and inflicting unacceptable damage on the enemy.

[Yuyuka]

in addition, why not use the Soviet experience? in the sense of patriotic education and training starting with "Zarnitsa", NVP. Moreover, with modern technologies, this can be done in an interesting way for young people. Now, most likely, things are moving towards deserted technologies, the management of equipment at a distance, therefore, the intellectual training of the mob reserve comes to the fore, and the level of general education unfortunately falls.

[mamont5]

Quote: Basarev

And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.

That's right, but ... you need to have a reserve. And how to prepare it, except for urgent service, at least minimal.

[trigger]

Quote: mamont5

That's right, but ... you need to have a reserve. And how to prepare it, except for urgent service, at least minimal.

I have not heard about military departments? You can also teach the military craft at least in school, it’s not the highest mathematics, soldiers do not need much intelligence.

[Cat man null]

Quote: trigger

Well this is not higher mathematics, soldier a lot of mind is not necessary

You’ll go far .. I’m wanging - to be in your turtles, and soon ..

[Castor]

Quote: trigger

soldier a lot of mind is not necessary

I heard a similar opinion from one snotty major: only suckers serve in the army. I confess that the idiot was not crippled - there would be too many witnesses.

[pv1005]

Quote: trigger

Quote: mamont5

That's right, but ... you need to have a reserve. And how to prepare it, except for urgent service, at least minimal.

I have not heard about military departments? You can also teach the military craft at least in school, it’s not the highest mathematics, soldiers do not need much intelligence.

It looks like a respected tower has failed too.

[westland]

It’s all right when they put them in charge of the equipment for the victory parade, and he says that they don’t care about the technology, we’ll be on the demobilization, bring down the taiga! And not ride on tanks.

[Sergey-72]

They recruit in the high school of the city of Chelyabinsk tough guys with a sparkle in their eyes and two years of the type of CPC or DOSAAF and for 3 years in the army, let's say something like this.

[Volga Cossack]

all right - conscripts did not always cope with old cars - but here a whole new level.

[Retvizan 8]

Guys, well, what to argue about? Of course, a professional will be of more use than a person inexperienced! Well, can you prepare a pro for a year? In any profession, masters have been preparing for more than one year, and experience plays a big role here. Moreover, the tank is fancy!

[Castor]

Quote: Retvizan 8

can I prepare a pro for a year?

It is possible only with the continuation of work in the specialty.

[Evgeniy30]

Quote: Basarev

And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.

Sorry, but you have written nonsense now. Who told you that a "professional" army is good, that it is better trained, more efficient, etc.?
It is not for nothing that the pi ndos strive so hard to introduce "democracies" with "contract" armies, which they are promoting. Who said that the conscription army is less trained, less effective?
Did the Americans fight a lot? These vaunted pros, when it gets hot, run losing bloomers. Will the contract army fight a lot, without the possibility of replenishment with a less suitable mobilization resource familiar with the army?

[Mera joota]

Well, really ... Guessed ... How many expensive equipment ruined conscripts did not count. The fleet suffered especially from this, which after playful pens of conscripts urgently needed major repairs and was quietly dying ...

[Tjeck]

so that's right, the main thing is that all sorts of ministers for songs about professionals do not cut the order from 2100 to 21 units. By the way, talking with acquaintances who are passing or who have served, I have not heard from them that they can’t fight in old t-72s, it’s mainly young people who always give new things to them — from iPhones to tanks.

[YGV-97219]

And rightly so! Professionals must manage a high-tech product no matter how trite it sounds!

[RUSIVAN]

Personally, my opinion is that conscripts need to be trained in such tanks, and unconditionally trust contract soldiers.

[iouris]

No matter how "conscripts" filed a lawsuit for discrimination. The tank does not care whether you are a "conscript" or a "contract soldier". I remember how one big boss (apparently a theoretician), speaking to practitioners, said: "Here is the MiG-31 - such an advanced aircraft that in order to replace the wheel, you must at least finish the academy!"
In fact (in theory) everything (should be) the other way around: the more "advanced" military equipment, the easier it is to manage and maintain it. Otherwise, what is the point of rearmament of the army?
Second question. I haven't heard anything about the simulator. Mastering a tank, aircraft, or ship is impossible today without a complex simulator. Before a new type enters the troops, fighters, crews and subunits must already master its use on a simulator. Only a simulator will allow you to work out actions in situations that are difficult to simulate "in nature" and at the same time objectively evaluate all decisions and actions.

[Denis_469]

It's bad that there will be contract soldiers. During the war, they will quickly end and the call will rule. Friedrich proved this even during the Franco-Prussian War. In the sense of the superiority of the conscript army over the mercenary in a war of equal armies. Here contract soldiers will die in battles and the call will come. What for then that "Armata" will be needed if the conscript does not master it?

[t7310]

during the Franco-Prussian War Frederick proved. In the sense of the superiority of the draft army over the mercenary during the war of equal armies

yes yes ... well, at least not the Bedouins remembered where each to himself and the police and the hunter and the warrior and it is not clear to whom to comb the biduins to draftees or professionals ...

but around our time ... during the US-Iraq war ...
as I understand it, you are not opposed to falling asleep as funerals during the war of your near and dear ones, as judging by statistics, conscripts die in our time more often than professionals

draftees were always cheap cannon fodder ... even when they won

[konvalval]

Quote: Basarev

And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.

And who will scuffle this technique? You?

[t7310]

And who will scuffle this technique? You?

and the state has a fight

[Nebit73]

Everything in this world is perishable.
10. RBC-500AO 380 kg

One-time bomb cassette. It is equipped with 15 self-aiming anti-tank warheads equipped with dual-mode infrared target coordinators. Designed for "cutting" of modern tanks and other armored vehicles in any conditions. At the same time, it can erase six tanks.

[Nebit73]

Opponents also have a counterweight.
Name: CBU-97 / B

Type: cluster bomb with anti-tank submunitions

Warhead Type: 10pcs self-aiming submunitions BLU-108 SFW.

Warhead weight, kg: up to 42

Manufacturer: USA

Weight, kg: 450

Length, m: 2.34

Diameter, m: 0.406

High-performance cluster munition designed to destroy armored vehicles. It is used with many tactical aircraft of NATO countries.

The flight of one squadron and there is no longer such a brigade.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Nebit73

The flight of one squadron and there is no longer such a brigade.

Let it fly first. Or do you think that there will be a tank brigade without air cover, as well as without air defense systems, which will politely miss everything by turning off the radars?

[pv1005]

Well, what are you really nervous about, a person has no idea about dispersal and what part of the area a team occupies. If the squadron even breaks through, it will tear to iron such an area.

[Nebit73]

As we always have "The dagger is good when it is, at the right time ....."

[shurik]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

Quote: Basarev

And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.

I agree, but 100% making the army a contract is a big mistake. In the case of general mobilization, you will have to learn how to use the machine from scratch. And if in the days of the USSR the army would be contracted, then now Donbass would have long been captured by the forces of the ATO. Nobody would be able to use the D30 so harmoniously.

Do you think that someone taught them something to the Ukrainian army? Did you serve in her?

[Cat man null]

Quote: Shurik

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

I agree, but on 100%, making a contract army is a big mistake. In the case of general mobilization, you will have to learn from scratch how to use the machine. And if in the days of the USSR the army would be contracted, then now Donbass would have long been captured by the forces of the ATO. Nobody would be able to use D30 so harmoniously

Did you serve in her?

He didn’t serve you at all. He finally dates. Stock. In life. Date Theorist

Quote: Basarev

And I initially said that Russia needs an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts

Wildly amusing flight of thoughts:

- began with the fact that professionals should serve in Armata
- There is no Armata yet, professionals, respectively, if necessary, then definitely a little
- smoothly moved to a contract-non-contract army
- soon to be expected, IMHO, "ships plying the vastness of the Bolshoi Theater"

Apparently, Friday affects

[question]

What are you arguing about?!? They will be released until 2200 2300 pieces, TOTAL! And, in case of war (pah, pah) it will not work to stamp them, like t-34! And they will be protected as I don’t know what! Accordingly, the training of tankers should be at the level.

[NEXUS]

Quote: question

They will be released until 2200 2300 pieces, TOTAL!

Excuse me, what is the total number of modern tanks in Europe?

[Cat man null]

Quote: question

Their Until 2200 year will release 2300 pieces, TOTAL!

And what, already plans for 185 years ahead have begun to make up?

Until 2020, still, probably ..