Military Review

“Armat” will not be trusted to “conscripts”

274
Oleg Sienko, CEO of Uralvagonzavod, told reporters "Rossiyskaya Gazeta" that in Nizhny Tagil a Training Center for professional crews for armored vehicles will be created on the basis of "Almaty". At the same time, Sienko noted that the plans of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation include recruiting for service in the latest Russian tank and other armored vehicles on the Armata platform exclusively by professional military personnel. Soldiers serving in the conscription will not be involved in the operation of “Almaty”.


“Armat” will not be trusted to “conscripts”


Oleg Sienko:
Of course, this is not a machine for conscripts; it is for professionals. A training center for professional crews for armored vehicles, which is being created on the basis of “Almaty”, will be established in Nizhny Tagil. In the future, it is planned to create a comprehensive training center here.


According to the director of Uralvagonzavod, not only Russian, but also foreign military personnel who are employed in the operation of military equipment manufactured by the enterprise will be trained and retrained at the Nizhny Tagil center.

The material notes that now experts are working to increase the power of the power plant of the newest tank. Now the engine power is about 1,5 thousand horsepower, but soon it will be brought to 1,8 thousand hp
Photos used:
http://www.globallookpress.com
274 comments
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  1. sever.56
    sever.56 25 September 2015 17: 38 New
    103
    All right! No offense for our advanced youth, but, professionals must manage such a serious and expensive equipment. Today's one-year service can not afford to master it!
    1. ZU-23
      ZU-23 25 September 2015 17: 39 New
      39
      I agree, because on the battlefield they will slow down like Red Square
      1. kamil_tt
        kamil_tt 25 September 2015 18: 26 New
        21
        representatives of the UralVagonZavod said that they had specially planted conscripts behind Armata to show how easy it was to manage it ..
        1. vadson
          vadson 25 September 2015 20: 09 New
          12
          Directly on the machine and the blonde will be taught, and in combat, blondes do nefig
          1. Prisoner
            Prisoner 25 September 2015 20: 36 New
            20
            And in serious combat conditions, where are we going to save a pro? Or again take-off and landing and God to help you kid? sad
            1. ava09
              ava09 25 September 2015 20: 53 New
              19
              This approach suggests that either the tank will not be massive, or untrained reservists in battle, if that. The state of the army and navy at the moment is evidenced by the fact that, to help about 10 divisions (in terms of number of bayonets), Assad's army had to drive almost the entire composition of landing ships from all four fleets. It is hoped that such a picture will change quickly enough, the war is on the verge, and whether it will be possible to avoid it is a question ...
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 26 September 2015 09: 52 New
                +3
                Quote: ava09
                This approach suggests that either the tank will not be massive, or untrained reservists in battle, if that

                Everything rests on production technology.
                Before the advent of massive, easy-to-use and cheap to manufacture weapons, no mobile reserves were created by anyone because it was pointless. That is why the PVM and WWII were the wars of millions of armies - it was possible to quickly and massively arm the militias.
                Now this is already difficult, since a complex technique requires large expenditures (in terms of time, not money) for its creation, and the use of samples that have been outdated for decades is ineffective. Therefore, the reserve makes sense only in the infantry, armed again with simple and cheap weapons - machine guns, grenade launchers, MANPADS, portable mortars, etc.
            2. izGOI
              izGOI 25 September 2015 22: 05 New
              +5
              And in combat (God forbid) conditions, conscripts and conscripts will be on the T-72, and even the T-10, taken out of storage. Existing T-14 trained crews will be enough, and there will be no new Armats, as well as UVZ.
              1. Mih
                Mih 26 September 2015 00: 04 New
                0
                Existing T-14 trained crews will be enough, and new laughing
                Then it is worth recalling the legendary T34?
                1. Foxmara
                  Foxmara 26 September 2015 04: 43 New
                  +5
                  we have more than "new" tanks more than enough. As well as 34-ok storage in the garbage. When the main forces are ground - 34 matches may well sweep across Europe .. there will be no one to stop
                  1. Drmadfisher
                    Drmadfisher 26 September 2015 07: 58 New
                    +4
                    the locomotives are also in conservation and non-CNC machines in conservation, and tube stations (which nuclear weapons do not care about)
              2. Deniska
                Deniska 26 September 2015 11: 39 New
                +2
                I think the plans for "Conscripts on t-90 ride" ...
            3. voronbel53
              voronbel53 25 September 2015 22: 09 New
              +4
              Quote: Captive
              And in serious combat conditions, where are we going to save a pro?

              Yes, all Beethovens in computer games, and here, the guard? Do you think they are planting any other salabon technique? Professionals themselves are not born, they will teach, - to fly on an airplane after studying at schools, at least three years, but is it easier here? And the cost of equipment is proportional - now professionals should be everywhere. And even more so with the new technology, to bring to mind, all the more. So, - where, where? - they will teach, ignoramuses have no place here ...
              1. romanru4
                romanru4 25 September 2015 22: 31 New
                27
                War is not a firing range. Military equipment should be reliable, simple and understandable to the bulk of the population. In the artillery brigade "Kalmius" in the Donbass there are D-30 howitzers. So, the local therapist, miner, taxi driver and electrician FIRST time in life approaching this gun, they fired from it after 3 (three) hours (under the strict guidance of an experienced artilleryman). After 3 days - it was already a real combat crew calculation. After 3 weeks, the doctor replaced the gunner. That’s how it should be a real weapon for the war, and not for demonstration firing with professionals who studied at the materiel for five years. Where is the war for five years? Who will give them to us?
                1. theadenter
                  theadenter 25 September 2015 22: 53 New
                  +2
                  Artillery alone cannot win a war.
                  I believe that Armata also has that basic functionality that can be learned in a day or two.
                  1. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 25 September 2015 23: 11 New
                    +4
                    Quote: theadenter
                    and on Armata there is that basic functionality that can be learned in a day or two.

                    Well, of course ... for example laughing : (clickable)
                    1. Kunar
                      Kunar 26 September 2015 13: 47 New
                      +2
                      The standard is "excellent" - And minus 30% of all results)))) If you want to live .... In my opinion, a good incentive ....
              2. theadenter
                theadenter 25 September 2015 22: 46 New
                +2
                Computer games will undoubtedly help in the beginning of training in tank control.
                But they will not make professionals.
                1. Shadowcat
                  Shadowcat 25 September 2015 23: 08 New
                  +2
                  Unless the current when they find where the keyboard / joystick to connect.
                  1. theadenter
                    theadenter 26 September 2015 02: 27 New
                    -1
                    There is a joystick in Armata. A joystick can be in the form of a handle with buttons.
              3. Mih
                Mih 26 September 2015 00: 07 New
                +1
                ignoramuses have no place here ...

                So who can teach in 1 year? Mu..ov, after comp_game - doesn’t roll.
              4. CAMS
                CAMS 26 September 2015 00: 42 New
                +3
                but what are you talking about, there will be no war other than nuclear, if this equipment will participate in the battles, then not on our territory and not globally. and for this there will be enough contract soldiers.
            4. BIP PS FSB RF
              BIP PS FSB RF 26 September 2015 02: 19 New
              +1
              So this is an advertisement for a contract army. If you want to drive armature - sign a contract.
            5. Kunar
              Kunar 26 September 2015 13: 41 New
              0
              In WoT. wassat
        2. Vladimir 1964
          Vladimir 1964 25 September 2015 21: 52 New
          +9
          Quote: kamil_tt
          representatives of the UralVagonZavod said that they had specially planted conscripts behind Armata to show how easy it was to manage it ..


          Camille, and did not think about the fact that between the concepts of "easy to manage" and "be able to use" a rather big difference. All the same, just driving through the square, even along Krasnaya, is one thing, and the availability of skills and the use of the entire complex as a whole is from a completely different opera.

          Somewhere like that. yes
          1. Kunar
            Kunar 26 September 2015 13: 49 New
            +2
            An old tale about the "driver" and the "driver" .... A theory without practice is dead.
        3. Manul
          Manul 25 September 2015 23: 03 New
          +2
          Quote: kamil_tt
          representatives of the UralVagonZavod said that they had specially planted conscripts behind Armata to show how easy it was to manage it ..

          They didn’t say such a thing. Long before the parade, on the contrary, they tried to offer the military to be allowed to control their specialists at the parade. They did not agree. And here's why - to show that the conscript can easily, or for constitutional reasons, now we can only speculate.
        4. Deniska
          Deniska 26 September 2015 11: 37 New
          +2
          representatives of the UralVagonZavod said that they had specially planted conscripts behind Armata to show how easy it was to manage it ..


          One thing to drive through the parade, another to fight!
        5. kamil_tt
          kamil_tt 14 November 2015 13: 15 New
          0
          it was not the most successful attempt of the leadership, which announced that the evacuation of the tank was being worked out, and the attempt to move it away from the place with the help of the BREM when the transmission on the tank was blocked. but urapotriotom anyway, they revel in the incredible aura of propaganda, giving +100 to steepness, +1000 to defense and + 500% to the damage of this product. but in fact the tank will be brought to mind another 5-10 years and will release more than one modification in the process. however, all this does not matter, because the real machine itself has already drowned in Internet myths and sofa analytics. patreotism and ChSV, propaganda and prejudice, dementia and courage. some exalt the tank to heaven, others throw to the bottom of the pit with shit
      2. 78bor1973
        78bor1973 25 September 2015 22: 20 New
        +3
        But the previous 70 parades behind the levers were precisely conscripts and there were no complaints! Everyone expects too much from the pros.!
        1. Kunar
          Kunar 26 September 2015 13: 57 New
          0
          I'll try to stop your argument)))) All conscripts someday become pros ... 3,2,1klassa and masters. In my army, badges just did not give ...
      3. meriem1
        meriem1 26 September 2015 02: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: ZU-23
        I agree, because on the battlefield they will slow down like Red Square


        Correctly. The technique is serious. And now they serve just a moment. Whoever wants to will master the technique. We have someone !!! Our youth .. Not like us. But no worse than Us ... I think Better.
    2. bhdir1946
      bhdir1946 25 September 2015 17: 43 New
      -42
      Apparently, they are going to produce a car for peacetime. And how can this statement be understood differently?
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 25 September 2015 17: 50 New
        -17
        And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.
        1. Lt. Air Force stock
          Lt. Air Force stock 25 September 2015 18: 06 New
          35
          Quote: Basarev
          And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.

          I agree, but 100% making the army a contract is a big mistake. In the case of general mobilization, you will have to learn how to use the machine from scratch. And if in the days of the USSR the army would be contracted, then now Donbass would have long been captured by the forces of the ATO. Nobody would be able to use the D30 so harmoniously.
          1. Motherland Russia
            Motherland Russia 25 September 2015 19: 47 New
            11
            It would be great if it were possible, on our own, to go to the training camp in the troops.
            To refresh that he was able and learn new things.
            1. Throw
              Throw 25 September 2015 19: 53 New
              +3
              http://dobrovolec.org -не совсем сборы конечно, но и освоите новое, и освежитесь хорошо bully
            2. SKIF555
              SKIF555 26 September 2015 01: 21 New
              0
              More than 10 years ago, he “politely” sent the recruiting office workers to such subpoenas (2 times), with the condition that I’ll go through retraining if the AK starts to shoot from the stock and the BMP itself, according to my desire, will find and shoot at targets. I GOT - I HAVE COME TRUE! OCH WANTS, BUT, DON’T SOMETHING SOMETHING NOW !!!
            3. Kunar
              Kunar 26 September 2015 14: 39 New
              +1
              This is the same two years and will leave)))))))))
          2. Kunar
            Kunar 26 September 2015 14: 32 New
            +2
            The contract and professional army are two big differences. In two years, you can teach the use of personal weapons. But the Navy served three years. Why?
          3. ammunition
            ammunition 26 September 2015 18: 30 New
            +3
            6 rounds per minute. On the most fluent.
            It’s not thick .. For the C grade.
            ----------------
            But!
            Under this video, there are comments on YouTube. Foreign
            They believe that the guns have the coolest professionals. belay
            In fact .. the men have not yet fully restored their army skills. And some did not even serve in artillery.
            -----------
            So it turns out that universal conscription gives millions of trained soldiers in reserve. smile
        2. Aleksey_K
          Aleksey_K 25 September 2015 18: 09 New
          53
          Quote: Basarev
          And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.

          In the Soviet army, tankers were trained in training for six months. And then 1.5 years in the combat unit. You just need to increase the service life again to 2 years.
          And the second:
          When the war begins and in the first battles most of the professional army will be ground in battles, then who will fight in tanks? No, you need to teach draftees, but at first, recruit computer literate youth, and not those who can not correctly read and write. By the way, the Warrior kit will also be computerized. Deuces - get ready for the whole service to lick the barracks and toilets.
          1. Maxom75
            Maxom75 25 September 2015 18: 36 New
            21
            Always in the first hours and days the main grouping of the armed forces of any side of the conflict is destroyed, further those who belong to the reserve come into operation. Everything rests on a mobilization resource and fighting spirit.
            1. Eugene-Eugene
              Eugene-Eugene 25 September 2015 20: 11 New
              -1
              Always in the first hours and days the main grouping of the aircraft is destroyed.

              Is it the time traveler's passage? laughing There has never been such a thing before, and for this option to work there must be a lot of if, which should be blocked by the military doctrines of the developed countries in defense.
              1. family
                family tree 25 September 2015 22: 19 New
                +6
                Quote: Eugene-Eugene
                Always in the first hours and days the main grouping of the aircraft is destroyed.

                Is this a time traveler passage? laughing There has never been such a thing before

                1941, the personnel died, giving the opportunity to evacuate industry and bristle. Near Moscow, miraculously survived, the cadets and the militia were thrown into battle, and then, early precocious leites, and reservists, then pulled up from the east. In the 43rd, we have a mobile reserve, generally ended. In the 42nd, in Stalingrad, units from those in the 41st.
              2. Maxom75
                Maxom75 26 September 2015 13: 36 New
                +2
                Learn the story dear. So it was already and the example was 1941-1945. The army was virtually destroyed and a mobilization resource entered. The trouble is evident in our country with the education since you do not know this.
          2. family
            family tree 25 September 2015 21: 28 New
            +7
            Quote: Алексей_К
            In the Soviet army, tankers were trained in training for six months. And then 1.5 years in the combat unit. You just need to increase the service life again to 2 years.

            Unloading bricks, harvesting firewood, shagistika on the parade ground and, in winter, lining cubes with a shovel, manually plucking grass, digging trenches from the fence until lunch, and after digging them.
            For a year, you can prepare both a driver and a gunner, if you try it in this, even with complete interchangeability, and let the commander contract, although I also manage to increase it to one and a half, if there is talent, with increased money for the last six months.
            And the fact that this Sienko declares, so on 72, will have to take Berlin, in the next, but cho, the tank is simple, will be mastered by the moment, only now, again mothers and reapers will howl.
            That you, damn it, the machine stalled at Red Square, a world-wide tragedy, matyug, like this window dress, with organizational conclusions, do not punish the one who doesn’t do any damn thing, but the one who does it, for himself and those , has the right to make mistakes, it doesn’t happen otherwise, even crack request .
            1. Aleksey_K
              Aleksey_K 25 September 2015 22: 19 New
              +5
              Quote: perepilka
              digging trenches from the fence to lunch, and after lunch digging them.

              No jokes, pass off as reality. The tankers from the training were quite professional in our unit. I myself have been to this training unit repeatedly. There is a wonderful tank training ground with all the tracks and obstacles and with directors.
              I agree that in the Soviet army, soldiers did a lot of what civilians are doing now. But do not turn service into labor feats alone. There was more combat training and our tankers fired and drove tanks better than cadets (future officers) who were in the nearby tank school.
              1. family
                family tree 25 September 2015 22: 46 New
                +4
                Quote: Алексей_К
                No jokes, pass as reality

                And this is not jokes, this is the reality of urgency in the SA. I agree again, for two years, with outfits in the kitchen and guards, but in order to be taught how to drive and work, it was engineering equipment, and they did not spare cartridges and TNT, at least 25 hours a day. And not instead of night mining, unloading bricks, or leveling gutters at the dining room with plucking grass.
                Even in this case, I think the year will be enough to prepare the driver, at least for the FCT, at least for the IMR, and with the base, at the recruit, at least in the form of a techie behind him, the last fool need to be.
                1. Kunar
                  Kunar 26 September 2015 14: 48 New
                  +1
                  But any part of the SA was a military unit without any outsourcing. I am ashamed, but I learned how to cook in the army and how to handle all sorts of everyday things ... Besides performing basic duties
                2. REZMovec
                  REZMovec 26 September 2015 15: 49 New
                  +1
                  I don’t know where you served. We had no bricks and plucking grass, from the word ABSOLUTELY. Yes, they walked on the parade ground 4 hours a week, even after a week, because they were on the database for a week, and the second in the barracks. Fire training is also once every two weeks, at the shooting range - at least the store was fired from AKMs and a tape from the RPD, which is 30 and 100 rounds. More often two shops were fired, and at night shootings - always three stores and three ribbons. And mine preparation time was given three times for 4 hours a week. And also a melee - for battles with airborne sabotage groups. Garbage to suffer in the form of grass / leaves - there simply was no time left. Yes, he served in the medium-range strategic missile forces, in the REZMe ...
                  1. BLACK-SHARK-64
                    BLACK-SHARK-64 26 September 2015 22: 33 New
                    +1
                    And we had a lot of bricks ... specially brought .... We used their hands and feet to dolbbills ... And the tankers cried when we wet them from the grenade launchers (blanks) ... So our Army was normal ( served in the mid-80s) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! angry
            2. Blackgrifon
              Blackgrifon 26 September 2015 00: 19 New
              +1
              Quote: perepilka
              stepshop on the parade ground

              If you don’t have the slightest idea what the drill is really for - read the material better before fantasizing.
            3. pv1005
              pv1005 26 September 2015 07: 41 New
              +6
              Quote: perepilka
              Quote: Алексей_К
              In the Soviet army, tankers were trained in training for six months. And then 1.5 years in the combat unit. You just need to increase the service life again to 2 years.

              Unloading bricks, harvesting firewood, shagistika on the parade ground and, in winter, lining cubes with a shovel, manually plucking grass, digging trenches from the fence until lunch, and after digging them.
              request .

              Apparently in those distant years when the Soviet boys served 2 years (who were lucky even 3) did not know such a word as outsourcing. And all this, the same elements of combat training.
              Unloading bricks = OFP (general physical training).
              Logging = offp + organization of survival in difficult climatic conditions.
              Shagistics on the parade ground, well, nobody canceled combat training in the army.
              Building cubes and plucking grass = camouflage classes (changing the landscape manually and the enemy in an unfamiliar area ....).
              Digging trenches = tactics, equipment of a platoon stronghold.
              But at the exit they got real men, not mama’s sons. yes hi
              1. Private Starley
                Private Starley 27 September 2015 08: 30 New
                +1
                for sure, real men who can protect their women and make anything at home))) and what ingenuity was given by the army !!! from the side you can immediately see who served and who was showing off under the skirt of her mother ... and now there are a lot of them, and then women also complain that the men are getting smaller))) laughing
            4. Kunar
              Kunar 26 September 2015 14: 44 New
              +1
              Hearts without practice rust ... A long time ago, a long time ago, a long time ago ..... a long time ago!
            5. Nirag013
              Nirag013 27 September 2015 11: 53 New
              +1
              Well, I don’t know, I don’t know how to study now, but I was taught specialties very, very "tightly." Six months later, I was quite successfully made a specialist in military repair and storage of BTT. City of Vladimir, military unit 12609, 1977.
              Py.Sy .: How many years have passed, I still remember the main thing (small details and subtleties, of course, have been forgotten)! They taught you honestly! There was, of course, “shagistika” - to the same place without it ... But the main thing, after all, was the materiel and military repair. Something like this.
          3. 78bor1973
            78bor1973 25 September 2015 22: 25 New
            +4
            Dear, they just took it off the tongue, they just beg for two years, in the present conditions it’s just a lifesaver!
          4. Mih
            Mih 26 September 2015 00: 11 New
            +3
            You just need to increase the service life again to 2 years.

            Yes - it is necessary if we don’t want to be at the very worst.
          5. t7310
            t7310 26 September 2015 14: 20 New
            +1
            in the first battles, most of the professional army will be ground in battles, then who will fight on tanks?


            and it doesn’t seem to you that the professionals, together with the tanks, will grind the question: who will fight in tanks and where will they take tanks? to withdraw from the reservation? then it would be logical to prepare a mobilization reserve for the number of tanks that are in the reservation and in the cheapest way without distracting the reservists from peaceful life during training, otherwise it turns out that he studied at the tank and they tell you there is no tank on the RPG saying you know where to hit the tank and the gun with one clip, but in order to understand where to beat a tank for an hour at a time, you can explain to a very large number of people at the same time, and start training reservists in educational institutions to start with schools and after graduation for a month in the army to consolidate the knowledge gained at school, so to speak, at large enterprises, it will sometimes be interesting for workers to distract from normal work, it will be cheaper by a lot and the reservist will turn out no worse, and will they even make use of reserves in a modern war? because if the pros do not stand up ... a special kind of troops - instructors who train professionals and each other in peacetime and during the war they are valuable personnel who train quick reservists (after all, tanks should not be withdrawn from the reserve in one day while tanks are specially trained to train from the reserve the troops train the most promising ones) I'm talking about the fact that the number of combat-ready weapons should approximately equal the number of people trained to use this particular weapon, and here we see that there are not so many tankers, rocket men, artillerymen, but the main quantity is infantry, well and train the required number for both pros and reserve and infantrymen, for example, to educate and keep pros and reservists, let them study in schools (schools) for a month, for any tanker there will be a longer term, and the concept of use and equipment will turn out different for pros armata a for reserve at best T72 and maybe T34-76, professionals (who are expensive the same as in m otherwise (in wartime)) should at least maintain their positions and not die until reinforcements arrive in the form of a relatively poorly trained reserve which in peacetime is not only much cheaper but pays taxes
            1. REZMovec
              REZMovec 26 September 2015 16: 20 New
              +1
              That's somehow weak you here know the whole history of the Second World War. Near Moscow, the Germans didn’t defeat the mob and the militia — personnel units brought from over the Urals, from Siberia, and from the Far East. Yes, reservists, militias helped them, but it was the personnel officers who struck the main blow.
              Yes, it was precisely the personnel troops that allowed the evacuation of enterprises and workers, yes, it was they who, at the cost of their lives, made it possible for the country to mobilize and, albeit in an accelerated program, prepare new fighters - tankmen, pilots, foot soldiers.
              With regards to the armored forces, the "Armat" will not be so much - about 2,5 thousand units. Here they should be served by pros - contractors, with a contract of at least 5-7 years. With a contract of three to five years, there must be tankers on the T-80 of all modifications and the T-90MS. But conscripts and a mobile reserve should be prepared for the tank "Kalash" - T-72 and T-90A. What is the logic? T-14 is the most "sophisticated" tank, with great capabilities. To master them perfectly and need years. T-80 and T-90MS are also not the easiest tanks, and mastering them at a decent level should also not be in a month or two. But the simplest tanks should be the most massive. At the same time, their use should not be independent, namely, together with the tanks "in earnest" - T-80/90 and T-14. For example, a platoon "Armat", a platoon T80 / 90 and a battalion of "seventy-two." IMHO
              1. yehat
                yehat 28 September 2015 17: 44 New
                0
                the main thing is that personnel units from the Far East and from St. Petersburg (!), near Moscow, gave this time to somehow manage to somehow raise the combat readiness of the newly formed units. However, a significant part of them ended up being stupidly leaked in poorly prepared counterattacks. (end of autumn, winter offensive, Rzhev)
          6. Kunar
            Kunar 26 September 2015 14: 41 New
            +1
            Absolutely syzdyke ..... drinks
        3. veksha50
          veksha50 25 September 2015 18: 10 New
          29
          Quote: Basarev
          And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there.



          Hmm ... But then a guy should get elementary military skills ???
          Even in Switzerland, where there is no army, and the polls male population is undergoing military training and training ...

          With Armata and other sophisticated equipment - yes, we need professionals ...
          But with a machine gun, grenade, machine gun, you should be any male person ...
          1. Retvizan 8
            Retvizan 8 25 September 2015 19: 02 New
            +5
            My opinion is "urgent" should be, but professionals should deal with complex technology.
            Our conscripts "prepared" the rocket, including only officers, who were involved in the matter. Especially who served in the PRTB will understand me.
            1. REZMovec
              REZMovec 26 September 2015 16: 01 New
              +1
              He served on 8k63 in RTB, no, not as a rocketeer, in REZMe, provided the opportunity for these same rocketers to launch. So, out of more than a hundred people on the launch pad, about forty were officers, the rest were conscripts: gunners, tankers, drivers, dockers, diesel engineers, compressors, and so on ... In two years, the guys became real pros. Yes, there were separate “catch-ups,” but they were usually sent to the farm. The rockets were professionals.
          2. Down House
            Down House 25 September 2015 20: 30 New
            +3
            Quote: veksha50
            Even in Switzerland, where there is no army,

            In Switzerland, oddly enough, the CSO-GO army, those who wish to doubt, can always attack it. No one is willing!
            1. pv1005
              pv1005 26 September 2015 07: 45 New
              0
              Quote: Down House
              Quote: veksha50
              Even in Switzerland, where there is no army,

              In Switzerland, oddly enough, the CSO-GO army, those who wish to doubt, can always attack it. No one is willing!

              It’s just that Switzerland was lucky they have no oil, and they are far from the sea, but around there are some champions of dermocracy and NATO members. laughing
            2. REZMovec
              REZMovec 26 September 2015 16: 27 New
              +1
              In Switzerland, the army is scanty, but each house is a fortified firing point, every man knows what to do in case of war, every year there is a training camp. And do not care, you mayor or peer, or a simple scavenger - in the safe of your house you have an assault rifle / rifle / machine gun / grenade launcher and a gun with ammunition for more than one hour of firing, grenades and uniforms. And so on until reaching the age of 50. Has reached, the state expels you from the rank, but gives you a bolt rifle and a pistol - suddenly come in handy to protect the country. I think a great role model.
          3. Mih
            Mih 26 September 2015 00: 13 New
            0
            Even in Switzerland, where there is no army,

            This is a good example.
          4. yehat
            yehat 28 September 2015 17: 49 New
            0
            in Switzerland, combat training is reduced to actions within the framework of a small platoon.
            for the modern army this is not enough.
        4. TanakaKenshin
          TanakaKenshin 25 September 2015 18: 44 New
          20
          Fundamentally wrong statement.
          A professional army cannot be large, and in case of war the army has a bad habit of striving for zero. Even very professional soldiers are mortal. The draft army allows you to always have at hand a reserve that does not need to be learned from absolute zero. It saves time. And time is not only money, but also initiative, and, as a result, victory. And what happens when there is no one to replace professionals, the situation that developed after Midway in the Japanese Air Force illustrates quite well.

          Suffice it to say that the largest percentage of our soldiers who survived the war was among those who, shortly before the war, had been conscripted. An example of this is the only great-grandfather I found, Vereshchagin M.A. - Guardsman tanker (27th Guards Otbr), holder of the Order of the Patriotic War of both degrees. Drafted into the War in 1941, a few months after returning from military service.

          In addition, given the length of our land borders, the maintenance of contract soldiers in the required quantities will fly into the budget not even a pretty penny, but into the ruble, and the tsar’s one. We are not the United States, which has two land borders, and not Europe, most of whose countries can be traveled around the perimeter per day.
        5. Dilshat
          Dilshat 25 September 2015 19: 34 New
          +3
          About the Chinese, "fill up with corpses" is very outdated information. 10 people wishing for one place in the PRC army.
        6. diz1975
          diz1975 25 September 2015 19: 56 New
          +8
          What you said was wrong from the beginning. I have always believed and still believe that people should be prepared to defend their homeland. Yes, there are highly qualified areas where only professionals who are trained for many years are allowed. Conscription into the army and one and a half two years make of a yesterday’s schoolboy a man capable of defending himself, his family, his homeland. They give him a core, then if necessary he will be called up and quickly trained to mind in training or if anything in the first battles. Yes, it’s hard to serve, but alas, there is no other way, the “democratic” West will not spare us peace. THE PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO STAND FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE HOMELAND.
        7. BYV
          BYV 25 September 2015 20: 13 New
          0
          Quote: Basarev
          exclusively professional army

          The Wehrmacht at one time relied solely on professionals. How did it end?
          1. Mikhail m
            Mikhail m 25 September 2015 21: 22 New
            +4
            The appeal of boys and retirees.
          2. izGOI
            izGOI 25 September 2015 22: 22 New
            +1
            In the Wehrmacht, by the way, sergeants knew how to command a platoon. And it was impossible to get a company to the command without passing an exam for the battalion commander.
            But I am completely convinced that urgent but urgent need to be made mandatory for everyone (even if only for half a year), and military departments must be returned. A man simply must be able to use weapons.
            1. Kunar
              Kunar 26 September 2015 14: 55 New
              +1
              Not an argument. In the SA "castle" - sergeant senior, maximum sergeant ... And the German sergeant-major corresponds to our ensign .... And I completely agree with the return of military departments.
            2. REZMovec
              REZMovec 26 September 2015 16: 36 New
              0
              It is necessary to return the NVP to schools and in high school to raise at least 10 days of training, including girls - to get the first skills in handling weapons, infantry shovels and tactics of separation in battle, for children, medical and fire training for girls. Each university should have a mandatory military department and, preferably, civil defense for white-ticketers and girls. IMHO
          3. Aleksey_K
            Aleksey_K 25 September 2015 22: 26 New
            +3
            Quote: BYV
            Quote: Basarev
            exclusively professional army

            The Wehrmacht at one time relied solely on professionals. How did it end?

            You, what do you think, that 10 million Germans who died on the fronts were all professionals. Speak, do not speak. Almost all soldiers are ordinary people, and officers, as in the USSR, trained in their military training units. These are ordinary people. Professionalism comes with battles, over time, to those who think and find the right decisions on how to defeat the enemy.
        8. Blackgrifon
          Blackgrifon 26 September 2015 00: 23 New
          +1
          Quote: Basarev
          And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there.

          Fortunately, the reformers have not yet realized this idea of ​​an absolutely contract army.
        9. Kunar
          Kunar 26 September 2015 14: 28 New
          +1
          Don't understand the minusers laughing Even A.V.Suvorov said that they fight not by numbers, but by skill ... Read "The Science of Winning" What is wrong in the previous post?
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 25 September 2015 18: 00 New
          15
          Quote: Basarev
          exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there.
          All conscripts there (following the course of a young soldier), and sometimes with accelerated training, poured their marching companies and battalions into the army and broke the Hitler ridge. Many of the rank and file due to their personal qualities made their way into officers and became Heroes of the Soviet Union. categorically. please.
          1. Thunderbolt
            Thunderbolt 25 September 2015 18: 49 New
            +2
            Quote: Алексей_К
            in the first battles, most of the professional army will be ground in battles, then who will fight on tanks?
            Must and must fight the fighters from the so-called internal, and not special districts (however, this numbering is not respected now), and then there should be human reserves from draftees. The war with little Georgia showed well that it was necessary to move the reinforced ZKVO. And this is essentially against the two foot brigades and the adversary’s air brigade. For a hot meeting of NATO or the PLA with the deployment of one District (or whatever they are now .. you can’t do it). Yes, even if cf. In Asia, our troops will stabilize the situation: some contractors are the dream of the couch chief of the General Staff of the Russian Federation.
      3. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 25 September 2015 17: 52 New
        13
        Nizhny Tagil will create a training center for professional crews for armored vehicles on the basis of "Almaty".

        Ural taxis ...! There it all begins ... (no offense) The back of Russia!
        1. VOLCHOXURAL
          VOLCHOXURAL 25 September 2015 18: 46 New
          +2
          Quote: MIKHAN

          Ural taxis ...! There it all begins ... (no offense) The back of Russia!

          Absolutely agree!!!
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 25 September 2015 19: 05 New
            +3
            Quote: VOLCHONOKSURALA
            Quote: MIKHAN

            Ural taxis ...! There it all begins ... (no offense) The back of Russia!
            Absolutely agree!!!

            Why, with your nickname. wink
            1. vadson
              vadson 25 September 2015 20: 15 New
              +1
              Well, it’s not in vain that they say that the Urals are the supporting edge of the state
              1. uragan114
                uragan114 26 September 2015 10: 49 New
                +1
                From the border we spun the Earth back -
                It was a matter of first.
                But our battalion commander twisted it back,
                Having kicked off from the Urals.
                Finally, we were ordered to advance,
                To select our spans and crumbs.

                Vladimir Vysotsky: We Rotate the Earth - Lyrics http://mirpesen.com/en/vladimir-vysockij/my-vrashhaem-zemlju.html#ixzz3mpRtxIxc
          2. Kunar
            Kunar 26 September 2015 15: 00 New
            +1
            And beyond the Urals-Trans-Urals, and there it is, another distance .... laughing drinks soldier
      4. KaPToC
        KaPToC 25 September 2015 18: 09 New
        -3
        Quote: bhdir1946
        Apparently, they are going to produce a car for peacetime. And how can this statement be understood differently?

        You do not understand correctly, for conscripts they will tear down the T-15 with the Octopus cannon in an ordinary inhabited tower, call this unit anti-tank self-propelled gun, but in fact it will be a tank.
        1. SSeT
          SSeT 25 September 2015 21: 41 New
          +1
          Well, what a dumb vyser? You rave
      5. BABAY22
        BABAY22 25 September 2015 18: 23 New
        +9
        And understand how you want. Or do you think that in wartime, 2000 Armat tanks will be dismissed and there will be 200, and each draftee will get a new iron horse.
        PS. There is a storage base for mass appeal, which isn’t there. And T-64, and T-62, and T-72.
        Enough for everyone. And to someone, we will not point a finger at them across the ocean, even a lot will appear.
      6. Dart2027
        Dart2027 25 September 2015 18: 35 New
        +3
        It’s just that the technique is becoming more complex. You can learn how to use the machine in a month, but you can’t put anyone at the helm of the plane.
      7. zanoza
        zanoza 25 September 2015 18: 39 New
        +2
        In each regiment equipped with “Armata”, it would be nice to have a separate training company, where conscripts will be trained. special account, or a ready-made contractor. The turnover of the contractors was, is and will be for various reasons, but here there will still be a prepared replacement, albeit a temporary but full-time unit, and the crew of the combatants. IMHO.hi
      8. dauria
        dauria 25 September 2015 19: 03 New
        +1
        apparently they are going to let out a car for peacetime


        in vain you have stuck cons. Yes, and the problem is serious. On some "pros" hope, garbage. In a real war, all will have to be cleaned up. Well, with armature, it’s such a straight-forward wonder that two tanks are enough to defeat the enemy. ..Lady, and they will break, and burn with people, this is just a tank. Where to get replenishment? And if it will not be massive, then do we need it at all, is it so "exclusive"?
      9. Penetrator
        Penetrator 25 September 2015 19: 59 New
        0
        Quote: bhdir1946
        Apparently, they are going to produce a car for peacetime. And how can this statement be understood differently?

        Yeah, in the case of large-scale databases, it’s you, dear, mechanic or operator who will put you in such a tank. Or maybe a commander. At us, on the people's militia, the entire mob-system is being built.
      10. dmi.pris
        dmi.pris 25 September 2015 20: 49 New
        +1
        Did you understand what you said? Is that Lada Grant? Any combat vehicle is created for war. Although ... if you want peace, get ready for war .. A couple of bellum ..
        Quote: bhdir1946
        Apparently, they are going to produce a car for peacetime. And how can this statement be understood differently?
      11. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 26 September 2015 00: 22 New
        +1
        Quote: bhdir1946
        Apparently, they are going to produce a car for peacetime. And how can this statement be understood differently?

        If you think about it, you need to understand that a professional must manage the equipment.
        1. Kunar
          Kunar 26 September 2015 15: 09 New
          +1
          Exactly)))) I bought the rights and drove off))))) On our roads, professionals are a dime a dozen. And all traffic rules know))) Only some of their knowledge is used, while others are not ....!
    3. Hubun
      Hubun 25 September 2015 18: 23 New
      +7
      I fully agree. Salag let yuzayut 72yku
      1. Kunar
        Kunar 26 September 2015 15: 12 New
        +1
        Uh, dear man, don’t tell me. If a heart made of steel, then a wooden dagger is good .... Know and love your weapon .... And it will never let you down ... And our dear and beloved, as you put it 72ka, wraps any egg on the trunk of any abrams .....
    4. vodolaz
      vodolaz 25 September 2015 18: 32 New
      +5
      Well, it’s logical, just train him, and he went on a demobilization.
      1. Beaver
        Beaver 25 September 2015 19: 01 New
        +2
        Quote: vodolaz
        Well, it’s logical, just train him, and he went on a demobilization.

        As far as I can tell from the stories of the "demobilization", today the troops seriously train only those conscripts who are going to continue to serve under the contract. I fully understand the commanders - why teach a person what he himself does not want to learn and is not going to use.
        The understanding that urgent service is the preparation of the future mobility reserve is unfortunately lost.
    5. Volga Cossack
      Volga Cossack 25 September 2015 19: 11 New
      +2
      I fully agree - conscripts did not have time to master the old cars - and this is another completely level.
    6. marlin1203
      marlin1203 25 September 2015 20: 53 New
      -1
      The material notes that now experts are working to increase the power plant of the latest tank. Now the engine power is about 1,5 thousand horsepower, but soon it will be brought up to 1,8 thousand hp. - The cylinder with nitrous oxide is stuck, well, there is a spoiler, carbon brakes, a subwoofer, in general, "a car for pumping")))))
    7. max702
      max702 25 September 2015 21: 10 New
      +1
      Come on ... How are we without conscripts ?? We don’t have any contractors, there aren’t any officers in the army ..
      Sorry for the sarcasm, but .. When I heard from the general designer about the fact that at the parade dedicated to the 70th anniversary of the Victory in the Great Patriotic War, I took part in the most important technique of the PARADE by order of MOUCHERS !!!! WAS IN SHOCK !!!! THIS SORRY IDIOTISM IN THE TENTH DEGREE !!!
      What the hell? !!! Who did you want to prove? What armata rulitsya easily? So it is not proved at parades, but beauty is shown at parades! THIS all comes from synchronism and drill! That has nothing to do with modernity BUT BEAUTIFUL! And to whom have they proved? Stalled pepelats on training like nothing special, but you need to understand the political situation! And do not give the thief the slightest clue for mocking his beloved homeland BUT NO yet another "economists" considered that the work of PROFESSIONALS would be TOO EXPENSIVE! And it’s easier to get along with cheap performers .. They managed it .. And how? Are you satisfied? Yes it was like a miserable episode .. BUT ALL crap !!! Especially delivered a tow truck team pulling a frozen tank .. SHAME !!!
      Excuse me, but EVERYTHING was done here! and Moscow oblast and factory representatives who failed to figure out the situation on time .. SHAME and SHAME! The bleating after that was pathetic and shameful! Some about one, others about another!
      RS: I sincerely hope that the MO will find reserves and those Armata tanks that will be delivered to active units will still be staffed with professionals! Stop saving on matches !!!
    8. 78bor1973
      78bor1973 25 September 2015 22: 16 New
      0
      Military equipment must be controlled by trained military personnel of varying degrees of education, and professionalism comes with time, and turning an alarm tank into a "synchrophasotron" is also nonsense!
    9. romanru4
      romanru4 25 September 2015 22: 24 New
      0
      One has to serve two years. One center will not prepare the required number of crews for new equipment. In general, the more complicated military equipment, the less people will be able to fight on it, the more difficult its repair and restoration, the more it will remain on the fields after the battles are not in demand. Again, you have to "come up" to come up with something simple, reliable and easily digestible for reservists.
    10. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 25 September 2015 23: 04 New
      0
      Everything is a little easier. Firstly, the rotation of personnel for conscripts is higher than for conscripts, secondly secrecy, thirdly its saturation in the troops.
    11. shasherin.pavel
      shasherin.pavel 25 September 2015 23: 12 New
      +1
      [quote = sever.56] such a serious and expensive technique should ... that’s what Tupolev did when he got Stalin to have pilots no lower than captains fly on his Tu-2. A progressive step for the image of the Tu-2, but imagine a regiment where the youngest pilot captain ...
      1. REZMovec
        REZMovec 26 September 2015 16: 48 New
        0
        I would like a reference to the above, about the Tu-2 and captains. An interesting statement.
    12. Mih
      Mih 26 September 2015 00: 00 New
      +1
      Today's one-year service laughing

      Well, the year of service is pure profanation. am
      1. Kunar
        Kunar 26 September 2015 15: 28 New
        +1
        I agree. Previously, 2 years of military training, then 5 days practice, then 2 years of the army (which I’d ​​be glad to forget, but I don’t want to soldier ), then memories and VO ... To tighten the theory ... And practice, will follow .... drinks
    13. ksv1973
      ksv1973 26 September 2015 01: 43 New
      0
      Quote: sever.56
      All right! No offense for our advanced youth, but, professionals must manage such a serious and expensive equipment. Today's one-year service can not afford to master it!

      For the Russian Armed Forces, if I’m not mistaken, it is planned to supply 2300 T-14s. Multiply this number by the number of crew members. And do not forget those who will "work" on the soplatform "Armata" armored units. Where to get so many professionals? And this despite the fact that every “professional” needs to be more or less provided with housing in the future that will allow him to create a family.
      Conclusion:
      1. Urgent service for 2 years.
      2. The most brutal, up to 15-year prison sentences, the suppression of "hazing".
      3. Remaining on the contract - solid "lifting" with the condition of returning them in case of termination of the contract due to improper behavior of the contractor.
      1. t7310
        t7310 26 September 2015 15: 53 New
        0
        to save on conscripts, to save those saved on vocational training and preparing reserves in schools, as a result, a combat-trained army and conscripts also pay taxes for two years, gradually prepare schools in the army after school to work out joint activities with the pros, as a result, the pros the loot that was spent on conscripts and reservists are also there who also pay taxes
      2. REZMovec
        REZMovec 26 September 2015 16: 59 New
        0
        We take 10000 units on the Armata platform - this is 30000 people. What is the number for the 150 millionth state? Even for a millionth army, this is nothing. You do not want to remember about pilots, sailors, rocket men, etc.? There will be more of them. The state must turn to face the army, its defenders. To provide them with a decent life, but also to demand sacrifice, for the sake of his interests. How else?
        By the way, the current contract soldiers are very sad - I can not shudder at the "paratroopers" captured in Ukraine, at the murderer of the Armenian family ... It seems that they are rowing under the contract of the first person they meet. The Soviet paratrooper was not less than 180 cm tall, physically strong. And these squishies, intellect, did not shine in one eye. Similarly, the murderer of the Armenians - there certainly is everything "extinguished" in the sense of intelligence, I will even say more - the criminal is climbing out of his eyes ...
    14. Samurai3X
      Samurai3X 26 September 2015 02: 40 New
      0
      I doubt that a biennial could ...
    15. .Strannik.
      .Strannik. 26 September 2015 05: 04 New
      +1
      I agree that young people have something to strive for. What is achieved by labor is dearly valued.
    16. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 26 September 2015 10: 31 New
      +1
      Quote: sever.56
      No offense to our advanced youth,

      What insults? This "advanced young" does not want to serve at all.
      As Komsomolka wrote at the time, tentatively the beginning of the 80s, Muscovites should not serve, there are deaf cities and villages for this.
    17. 31R-US
      31R-US 27 September 2015 16: 29 New
      0
      Let’s now pray with the whole of Russia for Armata since it’s so expensive. Practical training of conscripts is mandatory in every tank unit, it’s impossible in another way. There are a lot of intelligent young people who will put the tank in half a year in half.
      Or the enemy, wait now, the pros will give him a lift at you from Armata, he will not seem enough.
      Increase the service life hi
    18. Alexey-74
      Alexey-74 28 September 2015 12: 35 New
      0
      I definitely support a permanent crew consisting of professionals who will maintain a fighting vehicle at the proper level, and what about conscripts? came and went and there is no interest, there is no responsibility, he needs to fuck his own ....
    19. yehat
      yehat 28 September 2015 17: 40 New
      0
      one-year service will allow
      but motivation is not.
  2. jjj
    jjj 25 September 2015 17: 38 New
    +3
    For some reason, it seems that the tank’s tower will be different
    1. Uncle VasyaSayapin
      Uncle VasyaSayapin 25 September 2015 17: 40 New
      +8
      More professional?
  3. figwam
    figwam 25 September 2015 17: 38 New
    +3
    My favorite tank.
    1. bastard
      bastard 25 September 2015 17: 43 New
      -5
      Quote: figvam
      My favorite tank.

      The locomotive on the goose, a powerful beast.
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 25 September 2015 18: 19 New
        +2
        I bought the journal "Science and Technology" today --- they offer to buy posters with Armata there. But I would buy an adhesive model, I have a pair of T, and others (already German T). But basically I collect combat aircraft of the SA and the Russian Federation. However and there are NATO members. They hang on my fishing lines and attack each other.
      2. bastard
        bastard 25 September 2015 19: 39 New
        +1
        Quote: villain
        The locomotive on the goose, a powerful beast.

        And what, gentlemen, comrades, have they really made a bad and weak machine? Is there an engine from a moped on Armata? Well, this is not for me, this is for UVZ, please contact, gentlemen, minus signers. If only one justified its minus. I’m not at all offended, honestly, just curious, is this a manifestation of a herd reflex? Respond at least someone, ay!
        PS: I’m not going to deny it out of principle, I’m not so educated.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 25 September 2015 21: 56 New
          +3
          All backing tracks from your nick hid. Scary, damn it. smile
        2. saenara
          saenara 25 September 2015 22: 22 New
          +2
          You have a problem with the expression of thoughts, for which they paid. They would write that it’s just a tank, and with a capacity from a diesel locomotive, they would pour you the pluses :-)
          The Russian language - it is such a multifaceted one, almost looked at it - and is already completely misunderstood :-)
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. bastard
            bastard 26 September 2015 01: 00 New
            +1
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            All backing tracks from your nick hid. Scary, damn it.

            He is a handsome muskin and very kind, he eats with his hands. yes
            Quote: saenara
            You have a problem with the expression of thoughts, for which they paid. They would write that it’s just a tank, and with the capacity of a diesel locomotive, they would pour you the pluses

            At one time I worked as a turner in the repair service on the railway. For me, a diesel locomotive is power, I’ve pawed with my own hands. Pistons the size of a head and more, connecting rods - a hernia can be earned and all this works in concert, like a watch. Even in the shunting TEM 2 1200 l. S., about the trunk - I am silent. By the way, on the submarines are the same diesel diesels, modified a little.
            In the late 80s, the TEP 80 diesel locomotive was built in the USSR, which still has an unbroken speed record of 271 km / h, two sections, each with a 20-cylinder turbodiesel of 6000 liters. with. Pretty boy! hi
            If someone did not understand the allegory - what to do, not I came up with the Bologna system and the exam. and it’s not my business to reduce the Russian language to 70-80 hours a week, and increase the foreign language to 220-240 (probably to better understand the gentleman’s commands). Well, that's okay. smile
            Damn, something the video is not inserted. Here is the tuta:
            https://youtu.be/DWDdNe_zx5A
            1. Babr
              Babr 26 September 2015 04: 15 New
              +4
              Under the hood of Mueller. lol
              Quote: villain
              Damn, something the video is not inserted. Here is tuta
              1. Disant
                Disant 28 September 2015 16: 54 New
                0
                get fucked up. car driver - man
            2. bastard
              bastard 26 September 2015 11: 53 New
              +1
              Quote: villain
              it’s not my business to reduce the Russian language to 70-80 hours a week, and increase the foreign language to 220-240

              I apologize, made a reservation. Correctly read: 70-80 hours per month.
            3. saenara
              saenara 27 September 2015 11: 11 New
              0
              I also worked on the railway, and I know, for example, that a VL-80 two-section shed can sneak up close behind and hear his figs ;-) But, if I use such a comparison, I will describe why to understand me. Because praised by the method "well done, crept up like an electric locomotive" it will not always be able to appreciate the beauty of the metaphor, and even will be offended again.
              For me, too, the locomotive is a concentration of power and strength, but for many it is just a big and dirty piece of iron, so check, check :-)
  4. svp67
    svp67 25 September 2015 17: 39 New
    +5
    At this stage, this is certainly correct, but if the draft remains in our army, then you want it - you do not want it, but you will also have to allow conscripts to operate this equipment
    1. Uncle VasyaSayapin
      Uncle VasyaSayapin 25 September 2015 17: 42 New
      +8
      What for? In the event of hostilities, they are not really printed on the printer. In the meantime, it will be possible to produce and train professionals.
      1. svp67
        svp67 25 September 2015 17: 47 New
        12
        Quote: Uncle VasyaSayapin
        But why?

        And then, that there is such a thing as preparing a mobilization reserve ... And it will have to be prepared precisely from conscripts.
    2. sever.56
      sever.56 25 September 2015 17: 52 New
      16
      Sergey, hi
      Remember that in the days of the USSR, the Navy served 4 years, 3 years in other troops, then it was reduced to 3 and 2, respectively. In the Navy, equipment was always more complicated, apart from the Strategic Missile Forces, Air Defense and RTV, therefore, almost six months, a year, it took them to master the equipment and become a specialist. Now the complexity of technology has increased by an order of magnitude, and in order to master it, there will be few years if you do not take children with higher, or at least secondary technical education, into military service.
      1. svp67
        svp67 25 September 2015 18: 04 New
        +6
        Quote: sever.56
        in order to master it, there will be few years

        Military equipment has always been the most complex, from the fact that two aspects were produced here.
        The first is the designer’s talent, which made it possible to make a VERY sophisticated technique available to conscript soldiers. The second one - be that as it may, but to prepare a mobile reserve from conscripts who have already served on tanks of the previous generation is MUCH easier than starting to train them from ZERO.
        Now the process of preparing the mobile reserve is changing and very soon it will take place in a completely different way than before, by the way, the Nizhny Tagil UTs and others like it fit very well into the new system.
        1. sever.56
          sever.56 25 September 2015 18: 19 New
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          It’s MUCH easier to prepare a mobile reserve from conscripts who have already served in tanks of the previous generation MUCH easier than starting to train them from ZERO.


          Sergey, you say - MOBREZERV, but this concept itself suggests that a person who ALREADY has served in the army is mobilizing. I agree with you if you mean the RETRAINING of people who have already served urgent, and called up for training to learn how to work on new technology.
        2. REZMovec
          REZMovec 26 September 2015 17: 08 New
          0
          conscripts who have already served on tanks of the previous generation are MUCH easier than starting to train them from ZERO

          Among the authors of "Almaty" there is an opposite opinion, read the interview until May of this year.
      2. veksha50
        veksha50 25 September 2015 18: 15 New
        +5
        Quote: sever.56
        Now the complexity of technology has increased by an order of magnitude, and in order to master it, there will be few years if you do not take children with higher, or at least secondary technical education, into military service.



        As an example, people with higher polytechnical education, at least with secondary vocational ...

        In principle, on the basis of one of the tank schools, you can train a staff sergeant, as they did in Ryazan ...

        Well, again, it all comes down to budget money ... It is necessary to make the contract service attractive even for ordinary people, but also with great demands ... That is, to find leverage so that a person feels sorry for losing service ...
        1. sever.56
          sever.56 25 September 2015 18: 26 New
          +3
          Quote: veksha50
          In principle, on the basis of one of the tank schools, you can train a staff sergeant, as they did in Ryazan ...


          And again: - Serzhantov-kontraktnikov is being trained there, and the selection is such that - mom - do not worry ... The competition is almost 10 people in place. So you can see something attractive, with such a competition! By the same principle, it is possible to prepare professional tankers for "Almaty", as described in the article!
  5. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 25 September 2015 17: 40 New
    10
    In the hands of experienced fighters, such a tank will probably turn into a real Doomsday machine.
    And it’s good that they are already starting to modernize it.
  6. Oleg16661
    Oleg16661 25 September 2015 17: 40 New
    10
    Correctly. The best weapons in the hands of conscripts will show themselves well, but nothing more. In the hands of a professional, this weapon will be just a hell of a machine, will live longer on the battlefield and bring more benefits.
  7. Dima Čalevo
    Dima Čalevo 25 September 2015 17: 42 New
    +6
    in, 1800 horses, the dynamics will be incredible, I guess)
    1. Fregate
      Fregate 25 September 2015 17: 55 New
      +1
      It seems they always wrote that now it is 1200 hp, and it will be 1500.
      1. 16112014nk
        16112014nk 25 September 2015 18: 38 New
        +3
        Strangled with 1500 hp up to 1200 to increase engine life.
  8. katalonec2014
    katalonec2014 25 September 2015 17: 42 New
    +4
    There’s nothing to discuss here, everything’s right, the equipment is expensive, high-tech, and therefore the crews must be professional, and most importantly permanent ... for example, like those guys who represented Russia in biathlon.
  9. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 25 September 2015 17: 43 New
    +5
    Correctly. And then the draftees - they are so ... some right there will arrange a rush on the railway, others will start testing physics. laughing
  10. APASUS
    APASUS 25 September 2015 17: 51 New
    +3
    The guys did not have time to get used to the army, as they already had a demobilization on their nose. A decent salary + signing a contract and then training and in full for any kind of equipment.
  11. KnightRider
    KnightRider 25 September 2015 17: 51 New
    +2
    Armata for professional military personnel is the right decision. And a Kurgan with a boomerang would also be so necessary. soldier
  12. Lt. Air Force stock
    Lt. Air Force stock 25 September 2015 17: 52 New
    0
    Following the logic of Oleg Sienko, if the contract soldiers are professionals, then the draftees are amateurs ...
    1. veksha50
      veksha50 25 September 2015 18: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
      Following the logic of Oleg Sienko, if the contractors are professionals, it means conscripts are lovers.


      Just draftees in a short time take an elementary training course to fulfill, if necessary, their constitutional obligation to protect their homeland ...
      1. Throw
        Throw 25 September 2015 19: 55 New
        +2
        Then it is logical to return NVP to schools.
        1. veksha50
          veksha50 25 September 2015 20: 28 New
          +1
          Quote: Lance
          Then it is logical to return NVP to schools.



          How much has been said about this ...
  13. Evgeniy30
    Evgeniy30 25 September 2015 17: 53 New
    +6
    Quote: sever.56
    All right! No offense for our advanced youth, but, professionals must manage such a serious and expensive equipment. Today's one-year service can not afford to master it!

    I don’t agree. What if a full-blown third world? Where do we get so many trained "pros"? I don’t understand at all that everyone ran into some kind of contract army? They haven’t come up with anything better than mobilization. During the fighting, all profi will be knocked out, as in the Second World War, what will we do? It is necessary to return a two-year service, and in two years you can prepare an excellent pro, who will then be left in stock. Anyway, the T-72 will be the main workhorse, because the "Armata", with all its capabilities and coolness, is stuffed with electronics, which will be blocked by the enemy. And it is not known how all these bells and whistles will behave in the course of real hostilities.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 25 September 2015 18: 06 New
      +4
      Quote: Eugene30
      I don’t agree. What if a full-blown third world?

      If the full-scale third world war begins, then instead of Armata a completely different weapon will speak
      Quote: Eugene30
      Where do we get so many trained "pros"?

      It’s clearly said-OPEN A TRAINING CENTER.
      Quote: Eugene30
      Anyway, the T-72 will be the main workhorse, because the "Armata", with all its capabilities and coolness, is stuffed with electronics, which will be blocked by the enemy.

      And why bother, immediately transfer to the T-34 and then no electronics and adversary can block anything laughing
    2. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 25 September 2015 18: 29 New
      +5
      Quote: Eugene30
      During the fighting, all profi will be knocked out, as in the Second World War, what will we do?

      A full-scale war is likely to be only nuclear, and neither contract soldiers nor conscripts will particularly help. But in a limited war such as the war in Afghanistan, Chechnya, and in South Ossetia, contract soldiers can show themselves better than conscripts.
      It is no secret to anyone that during the war in Chechnya many untrained conscripts were sent to fight in Chechnya, which led to great casualties.
      1. goblin xnumx
        goblin xnumx 25 September 2015 22: 30 New
        0
        In your opinion, a trained pro can send a commander with his stupid order and independently carry out a task, what could conscripts in Chechnya not be able to do?
        1. Lt. Air Force stock
          Lt. Air Force stock 26 September 2015 17: 08 New
          0
          Quote: Leshy74
          In your opinion, a trained pro can send a commander with his stupid order and independently carry out a task, what could conscripts in Chechnya not be able to do?

          I’m not talking about commanders, there have been cases when a soldier was sent directly to the military registration and enlistment office in Chechnya, the conscript didn’t even take the course of the young soldier, and he is already being sent to hell.
          As for the war in Chechnya, and the storming of Grozny, I wouldn’t enter the city at all, place 300-400 howitzers around the city and iron it for a month (all the same, thousands of shells were used up in the 2000s due to the expiration of the storage period) storage bases exploded).
        2. Cat man null
          Cat man null 26 September 2015 17: 26 New
          0
          Quote: Leshy74
          trained pros can send commander

          “Sending” a commander in a combat situation is fraught.

          Perform what they ordered, "on their own", using the reasoning - is not forbidden .. somehow

          PS: "To the reserve financier" (I’m at this bastard in an emergency, therefore I will answer .. indirectly):

          Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
          there have been cases when a soldier was sent directly to the military enlistment office in Chechnya, the conscript didn’t even take the course of the young soldier, and he is already being sent to hell

          Lies, stars and provocations ..

          Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
          I wouldn’t enter the city at all

          And you didn’t enter .. the guys were the first to enter from my regiment, I just quit ..

          Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
          still shells in the 2000's were disposed of by thousands due to the end of their shelf life

          Yeah .. and you would make people shoot them .. eagle, damn it, indoor ..
    3. Beaver
      Beaver 25 September 2015 19: 16 New
      0
      Quote: Eugene30
      all profi will knock out, as in WWII

      How many contractors were in service in the Red Army in 1941?
      The professional military is good because it is not easy to kill him. In the T-14, the crew is protected like no other tank. So in the course of real hostilities, a shortage of tanks, rather than trained crews, is more likely to arise. So it should be, a person is more expensive than a car.
      1. TSOOBER
        TSOOBER 25 September 2015 19: 57 New
        0
        So five and three years, it's almost a contract
      2. veksha50
        veksha50 25 September 2015 20: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: Castor
        How many contractors were in service in the Red Army in 1941?



        Guys, it's time to stop measuring modern weapons and military operations since 1941 ...

        Well, you, as small children ...

        US tanks are needed, first of all, not for a full-scale World War III, but for a war of the level of a European theater of war ... And when a "full-scale" is started, the survivors can envy the dead ...
    4. APASUS
      APASUS 25 September 2015 19: 29 New
      0
      Quote: Eugene30
      I don’t agree. What if a full-blown third world?

      Change the profile of the dissenting you ours, for starters.
      1. Beaver
        Beaver 25 September 2015 19: 44 New
        +3
        Quote: APASUS
        Change avatar

        What is the badge about? Normal red guy, and settled down fine.
  14. Izotovp
    Izotovp 25 September 2015 17: 54 New
    +1
    And for conscripts T-90?
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 25 September 2015 18: 24 New
      +2
      Quote: Izotovp
      And for conscripts T-90?

      T-90 of all modifications produced only 1800 pieces. So you need only 5400 conscripts? There will not be enough tankers - for one day of modern combat.
      No professional army can withstand long battles, similar to the battles in the Great Patriotic War. Therefore, you must have a huge mobilization reserve, trained tankers. You just need to learn and train at least 2 years and then annual fees. The US and NATO armies are much larger than the Russian (I just am silent about the Chinese), so a reserve of trained tankers is very necessary.
      1. Izotovp
        Izotovp 25 September 2015 18: 36 New
        0
        Grinding 1800 tanks in one day is not so easy. But the fact that the reserve should be and change the approach to preparing the reserve must be urgently agreed.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 25 September 2015 18: 58 New
        +4
        Quote: Алексей_К
        No professional army can withstand long battles, similar to the battles in the Great Patriotic War.

        And will they be? Who are we going to fight long and tedious with?
        With china? So the outcome of this war will be decided by attacks on the rear - on hydroelectric power stations and economic zones.
        With NATO? Here, in general, the land investigators have to hold out for half an hour or an hour - while they will work out the cycle "making a decision to strike - bringing it to the performers - working out the launch cycle."
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 25 September 2015 18: 55 New
      0
      T-72B3. And his next "modernization iteration."
  15. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 25 September 2015 17: 57 New
    +2
    Do not scuff .... Learning will begin right from the UVZ ... So that they know by little teeth ..! And then ... hi
  16. alone
    alone 25 September 2015 17: 57 New
    +1
    )))) Each contractor is a yesterday’s conscript or a cadet. Do you think that they become professionals in the womb? Suppose you entrusted the equipment to contract soldiers. And in 10 years what will happen. The old people will control the tanks and other equipment? I don’t know who owns it an idea, but it’s wrong.
    1. engineer74
      engineer74 25 September 2015 18: 04 New
      +3
      Contractors also go to reserve! How much is our minimum contract? 5 years? At least it allows you to master the "profession"! Not so bad!
      Until old age, it is unlikely that anyone will serve in a "rank-and-file" position, 5-15 years, and in civilian life. And, most importantly, even with all the desire, the skills will not lose until the end of life, not like after 6 months. training and as much service. We need such a reserve!
      IMHO
    2. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 25 September 2015 18: 13 New
      +3
      Quote: lonely
      this is yesterday’s conscript or cadet.

      And in a year you can prepare a good tanker, only he should spend this year at a training ground in the tank, and not marching down the parade ground in the barracks, do not understand what to do.
      How combatant will help to defeat the enemy in the war?
      1. alone
        alone 25 September 2015 18: 18 New
        +1
        Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
        And in a year you can prepare a good tanker, only he should spend this year at a training ground in the tank, and not marching down the parade ground in the barracks, do not understand what to do.
        How combatant will help to defeat the enemy in the war?

        Well, what am I talking about? Suppose conscripts are removed from Armata and from other equipment? Then what will happen? in 10-15 years, there will already be no one to control him. Draftees should know and be able to control equipment
        1. Kuzyakin15
          Kuzyakin15 25 September 2015 20: 44 New
          +2
          Alone:
          Let served a long time ago, but ...
          The best training for the crews was with combat training vehicles, and with combat vehicles, as a rule, it was lame. Mechanics with combat training vehicles were a cut above that of combat vehicles.
          I myself was on a combat training. Who can not agree?
          1. REZMovec
            REZMovec 26 September 2015 17: 22 New
            0
            Why be surprised?
            How often in combat units did the mechanics go to the tankodrome? And in training? 5-10 times more often? Here comes the result.
      2. Barakuda
        Barakuda 25 September 2015 18: 31 New
        +1
        Drill, as such, is no longer there.
      3. Beaver
        Beaver 25 September 2015 19: 53 New
        +2
        Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
        How combatant will help to defeat the enemy in the war?

        I’ve already forgotten a lot, I’m definitely not quoting, but the point is this. Stroy - deployment of military personnel for their JOINT ACTION on foot or by CAR.
        Buildings are not only ceremonial, but also marching or fighting. Proper and complete drill training trains soldiers ... I understand what.
      4. t7310
        t7310 26 September 2015 17: 05 New
        0
        and not marching on the parade ground in the barracks, doing not understand what

        drill training speaks of the degree of coherence of the formation’s actions, they won’t drive everyone along the training grounds so that coherence of the actions there with binoculars is examined, and this is how they demonstrate part of the information war
        And in a year you can prepare

        and in a year it’s possible, but it’s more effective when a person has been engaged in business for more than 10 or maybe 20 years, professionally, it’s definitely harder to defeat and even more so to kill, and conscripts are not so effective where even after serving a year they don’t understand why, for example, drill training is necessary, I would suggest for everyone to make a month of service who likes it and who may not like to serve until retirement, work out the main points during the month in case of war and are free, in reserve, since you can also teach a lot in a month
  17. 79807420129
    79807420129 25 September 2015 17: 58 New
    +8
    The aroma of the tank is very serious and professionals should act in it, but over time, when the T-14s begin to enter the troops in larger numbers, you still have to train conscripts.
  18. Maksus
    Maksus 25 September 2015 17: 58 New
    +2
    Armats along the whole country will not be enough, they will only be in heavy teams, and therefore only "double basses" will be able to manage them. And for medium brigades and individual TBs (if there are any left, somewhere except the Marine) - there will be T-90 / 72Б2. Probably so.
  19. Vladimir 1964
    Vladimir 1964 25 September 2015 17: 59 New
    +1
    Of course, this is not a machine for conscripts, it is for professionals.


    Of course, the idea is literate, but as Sergey (svp67) has already correctly pointed out, how is it that the issue with the mobilization reserve will be resolved. And in this connection, will “Armata” become a presentation weapon?

    That kind of thought arose. request
    1. veksha50
      veksha50 25 September 2015 18: 24 New
      +4
      Quote: Vladimir 1964
      And in this connection, will “Armata” become a presentation weapon?



      It seems to me that it will not become the main one - in terms of mass production ... It is too complicated, expensive, and there are enough problems in training and operation, as well as in production ...

      But I hope that it will not become “presentation” either ... As it used to be, the reserve of the Supreme Command ... The Guard - in the truest sense of the word ...
      1. Vladimir 1964
        Vladimir 1964 25 September 2015 18: 33 New
        +1
        Quote: veksha50
        It seems to me that it will not become the main one - in terms of mass production ... It is too complicated, expensive, and there are enough problems in training and operation, as well as in production ...

        But I hope that it will not become “presentation” either ... As it used to be, the reserve of the Supreme Command ... The Guard - in the truest sense of the word ...

        Good comment, George, I liked it.

        Like so. good
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 25 September 2015 19: 53 New
        +3
        Quote: veksha50
        It seems to me that the main one - in terms of mass - it will not ...

        I don’t agree. When Armata goes into the series (like PAK FA), the production will be debugged and cheaper. So the designers say. The first cars are clear that it’s expensive, but it’s NEW TECHNOLOGY, and therefore expensive.
        I think that when training crews, reducing the cost of vehicles, as well as continuing work during military operation, the entire line of Almaty, Kurganets and Boomerang will be brought to such a level that the training courses for the crews will be said not for 6 months, but only 2 .. .
        And therefore, I think, Armata will eventually become the main tank of Russia. hi
        1. veksha50
          veksha50 25 September 2015 20: 43 New
          +1
          Quote: NEXUS
          And therefore, I think, Armata will eventually become the main tank of Russia.



          God forbid, God forbid ... Everyone has the right to their point of view ...
          Only for this - for Armata to become the main tank - it takes time, but we actually do not have it ... Look how the wolves overlaid and bite their teeth ...
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 25 September 2015 20: 51 New
            +1
            Quote: veksha50
            Only for this - for Armata to become the main tank - time is needed, but we actually do not have it ...

            Do you seriously believe that Europe will trample on Russia? Hmm ... they will bark until the master gives them a command, but at the same time they cling to his feet.
            And about P_I_N_D_O_STANA, there is something to answer for their aggression. As long as there is a nuclear triad, they will bark only because of the fence. And there we will see what to do with this brothel, I’ll either marinate or fry with a beam.
            1. veksha50
              veksha50 25 September 2015 21: 33 New
              +1
              Quote: NEXUS
              Do you seriously believe that Europe will trample on Russia?



              Trample is not Europe as such ...

              World wars - both the first and second - began with provocations ...

              In this case, for what purpose do Polish and German pilots (pilots from non-nuclear countries) learn to use nuclear weapons ??? For what purpose is this TNW contained in the same Germany ???

              But what kind of aircraft and where it will fly, and whose pilot it will hold by the control stick, and where it will gurgle a “gift”, this will not interest Russia ... From where it arrived, they will receive ...

              And staffers are far beyond the sea-ocean ... And it’s not a fact that a competent decision will be made to immediately wet just the overseas provocateur, and not the idiotic satellites ...
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 25 September 2015 21: 42 New
                +1
                Quote: veksha50
                In this case, for what purpose do Polish and German pilots (pilots from non-nuclear countries) learn to use nuclear weapons ??? For what purpose is this TNW contained in the same Germany ???

                Horror just catch up. Checking our brother for the thickness of the gastrointestinal tract.
                Quote: veksha50
                From where they arrived - they will receive ...

                Let it fly first, the brave Polish super ace. But then along the way there are different meetings, ranging from Willow and ending with Krasuha.
                Quote: veksha50
                And the staff are far beyond the sea-ocean ...

                Well, if you swim, then yes, far away. And the Governor, Sineve or Mace, like knocking on a neighbor for salt.
                hi
        2. Kuzyakin15
          Kuzyakin15 25 September 2015 20: 57 New
          0
          Nexus:
          In two months, prepare furs or a gunner? .... I don’t know. This is probably possible if a specialist is selected for those who are particularly prone to quick training. And so, I think, in a couple of months you can teach to stick with sticks. Although there are levers on Armata No-helm seems to be.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 25 September 2015 21: 24 New
            +1
            Quote: Kuzyakin15
            In two months to prepare a fur or gunner? ..

            And why not then? And you rightly said, “you don’t need to pull the sticks.” The easier the tank control is, the more effective it is in battle. I’m sure that the designer took care of this.
            In addition, there will be an operational period, during which additional changes will be introduced. Let's see.
            1. pv1005
              pv1005 26 September 2015 09: 22 New
              0
              Quote: NEXUS
              Quote: Kuzyakin15
              In two months to prepare a fur or gunner? ..

              And why not then? And you rightly said, “you don’t need to pull the sticks.” The easier the tank control is, the more effective it is in battle. I’m sure that the designer took care of this.
              In addition, there will be an operational period, during which additional changes will be introduced. Let's see.


              There is such a sequence in the training of KNOWLEDGE-SKILLS-SKILL, so in the "two" months you can give some knowledge, some skills, but the skill has been developed for years. Accordingly, the full training cycle will not be completed. Why do we need dropouts? request
        3. goblin xnumx
          goblin xnumx 25 September 2015 22: 45 New
          0
          As the former first deputy chief of the Armored Armed Forces Directorate of the Defense Ministry, Lieutenant-General Y. Kovalenko, stated, “in the future, the Armata tank should become the main combat unit of the Russian Ground Forces armament.”
    2. Beaver
      Beaver 25 September 2015 19: 58 New
      -3
      Quote: Vladimir 1964
      will Armata become a presentation weapon

      For example, during the Second World War only the most experienced ace pilots could fight on the "Aero Cobra". As the saying goes, "and cho"?
  20. dsi
    dsi 25 September 2015 18: 02 New
    +3
    Of course, this is not a machine for conscripts, it is for professionals.

    Have you seen the conscript at the helm of a fighter? Armata is not a brush with lime or a broom. Although professionals are needed here, seriously. We see Ukraine as an example, when conscripts rule. Therefore, I am sure that the country is ruled by professionals.
  21. Afinogen
    Afinogen 25 September 2015 18: 03 New
    +6
    From the article it’s clear that “Armata” is expensive and conscripts will not be allowed to break it, they will hang a plate “Do not touch it with your hands” laughing

    A technique that is entrusted to conscripts without fear. laughing
    1. BABAY22
      BABAY22 25 September 2015 19: 34 New
      +5
      What, in our army now are such super mops and super buck?
      Well, how will it break? Old Petty Officer will not allow such equipment to his company. It’s easier to be.
      1. Afinogen
        Afinogen 25 September 2015 22: 04 New
        0
        Quote: BABAY22
        What, in our army now are such super mops and super buck?



        You can’t do anything, "nano" technology, progress does not stand still. laughing
        1. BABAY22
          BABAY22 25 September 2015 22: 25 New
          +1
          To this "progress", the service life is a week, not more. And this "progress" is not repairable.
  22. Cat man null
    Cat man null 25 September 2015 18: 12 New
    10
    The plans of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation include the involvement of exclusively professional military personnel in the service on the latest Russian tank and other armored vehicles on the Armata platform. Soldiers serving in the conscription will not be involved in the operation of “Almaty”

    Strongly support. What a conscript can do with a tank is simply incomprehensible to the mind .. from life:

    - the warrior (mechvod) at the training ground, in the winter, he went .. forgot to open the blinds. Engine overheated, engine burned out
    - warrior (foreman of the company, not horseradish from the hill). Shooting on the director of the stock, watching the divisional. The car reaches the end of the track the gun never fires! It turned out - I didn’t put the type of projectile (I loaded the RP, put it cumulative). The conveyor is spinning, looking - where is it cumulative there? And neta .. Curtain
    - landfill, summer. One of the AZRs is knocked out of the driver’s drive (Rupture Protection Machine .. such an electric thing, a la automatic fuse. It looks like a toggle switch is almost, only big). Mekhvod, instead of reporting to whom it is necessary - tears off a branch from the nearest bush and this mother jammed AZR.. Further everything burns that this АЗР tried to protect ..

    No, well, what for conscripts to Armata ..
    1. Afinogen
      Afinogen 25 September 2015 18: 25 New
      +6
      Quote: Cat Man Null
      Strongly support. What a conscript can do with a tank is simply incomprehensible to the mind ..



      I recalled a joke right in the subject laughing


      A little dog was sent into space: Squirrel and Strelka. And to look after them equipped the Resident of the far north. Control connection. Command post: "Squirrel!" - Woof! - Press the red button! - Woof woof! - Arrow! - Woof! - Press the black button! - Woof woof! - Chukchi! - Woof woof! - Don’t bark, but feed the dogs and DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING !!!
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 25 September 2015 18: 31 New
        +2
        Quote: Athenogen
        feed the dogs and DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING !!!

        Exactly .. I’m not the most ridiculous (sad) one yet ... they won’t believe it, they’ll laugh at nafig laughing
        1. pv1005
          pv1005 26 September 2015 09: 27 New
          +1
          Quote: Cat Man Null
          Quote: Athenogen
          feed the dogs and DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING !!!

          Exactly .. I’m not the most ridiculous (sad) one yet ... they won’t believe it, they’ll laugh at nafig laughing

          Why not believe it !? Who served in the army does not laugh at the circus. Especially if he served all his life. hi
  23. Mercenary
    Mercenary 25 September 2015 18: 23 New
    +2
    From the very beginning it’s necessary, otherwise they arranged (an incident) on the main square of the country. Ensigns "do not care" for a long time no longer in a businesslike (general) manner to the good of the treasury must be approached.
  24. tyras85
    tyras85 25 September 2015 18: 23 New
    +3
    This is very true. "One-year-olds" will not be able to master such a machine-they will kill. An offer of 2 years in the RF Armed Forces, or a contract for 5 years! With the receipt of a basic education ...
    1. Barakuda
      Barakuda 25 September 2015 18: 43 New
      +2
      Well, so in the USSR soldiers-sergeants received categories and a profession.
  25. exalex2
    exalex2 25 September 2015 18: 25 New
    -2
    How can I entrust someone with something that is not there. And trust Armata, and the T-50. Well, there are none .. What is the problem ?? So it was originally intended. "Investments" (a magic word, or words?) It is not known what their mother fucked. The main thing is to report. Applause, slaves.
  26. Barakuda
    Barakuda 25 September 2015 18: 26 New
    +6
    He asked, without an answer, And if the sub-caliber hit, As the crew with a shaking hand finger on the icon to get on the display. request What is jerk, I know .. Well then, the technique wasn’t the same, everything was on autopilot, but in mechanics.
    Or they as cosmonauts-paratroopers need to be trained.
  27. trigger
    trigger 25 September 2015 18: 27 New
    -1
    I look, such couch experts gathered here, they all supported the thesis from the article as one, and they came up with excuses about the complexity of technology and professionals. Of course, if you don’t have your thoughts, don’t ask yourself, what is this armature positioned as a machine that anyone can handle, starting from car control, pointing like in computer games and ending with the fact that they sent it even to the parade of conscripts and it’s only for professionals "? If you think a little, it becomes obvious that the valves are just a tiny amount and they are simply not enough for conscripts either now or later.
    1. Barakuda
      Barakuda 25 September 2015 18: 36 New
      +6
      Have you ever been in a tank, not on an excursion? Well then either shut up, or say what the commander is holding with his hands .. And how the shells are located .. bully
      1. trigger
        trigger 25 September 2015 19: 47 New
        -7
        Yeah, there are several pieces of fittings in the country, and here the excursions turn out to be held. Now all Ukrainians or shell-shocked?
    2. Cat man null
      Cat man null 25 September 2015 19: 55 New
      +5
      Quote: trigger
      and that this armature is positioned as a machine with which anyone can handle

      Have you just come up with? If not yourself - a reference to the document "positioning".

      Quote: trigger
      sent to the conscript parade

      Blatnyak was sent there. Commanders-in-chief. Having removed mechanical drives from the factory from machines that are really pros.

      Quote: trigger
      It turns out she is only for "professionals"

      Exactly

      Quote: trigger
      If you think a little, it becomes obvious

      ... that Trigger has an incontinence of words ..

      Quote: trigger
      fittings in the country are a few pieces, but here excursions turn out to be held

      You were asked if you were in the tank .. not necessarily in Armata, in general - in a live tank ..

      There weren’t any campaign, at least judging by this:

      Quote: trigger
      pointing like in computer games
      1. Haye
        Haye 26 September 2015 21: 47 New
        0
        Quote: trigger
        and that this armature is positioned as a machine with which anyone can handle

        Have you just come up with? If not yourself - a reference to the document "positioning".

        Not a document, but here they say it
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 26 September 2015 22: 11 New
          0
          Quote: Haye
          Not a document, but here they say it

          "Speak" is not a document wink

          But seriously - let's not confuse the "ability to drive" (drive around a tank race track) with the ability to fight by car. With the ability to fight on .. not quite serviceable, for example, a car.

          For this we need pros. And the pros can’t be done in a month. And for the year - from conscripts - also unlikely.

          Not to mention the fact that Armat has not yet been planned much. And manning with professionals (whether they are contract soldiers, officers, or I don’t know who else) is the only right decision, IMHO.

          If suddenly Armata someday becomes mass - it is clear that conscripts will be pulled up. As part of mixed crews, for example. Moreover, according to rumors, there the commander can replace the mechvoda, for example ..

          Voooot ...
  28. Evgeniy30
    Evgeniy30 25 September 2015 18: 31 New
    +4
    Quote: NEXUS
    Quote: Eugene30
    I don’t agree. What if a full-blown third world?

    If the full-scale third world war begins, then instead of Armata a completely different weapon will speak
    Quote: Eugene30
    Where do we get so many trained "pros"?

    It’s clearly said-OPEN A TRAINING CENTER.
    Quote: Eugene30
    Anyway, the T-72 will be the main workhorse, because the "Armata", with all its capabilities and coolness, is stuffed with electronics, which will be blocked by the enemy.

    And why bother, immediately transfer to the T-34 and then no electronics and adversary can block anything laughing

    1. Actually, the war is already underway, just the Americans are fighting with the wrong hands. Will you throw an atomic bomb in Syria, or immediately to Ukraine?

    2. Well, during the Second World War there were also training centers where they retrained tractor drivers as tank crews, and for pilots they took off. The experience of ancestors is the right thing ....

    3. In vain do you jerk when a war is going on, then the equipment must correspond to wartime. Those. simpler, more reliable, cheaper, mass. Especially in the conditions of modern warfare, where radio suppression, electronic blocking, interference, etc. are widely used.
    1. bastard
      bastard 25 September 2015 21: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: Eugene30
      when war breaks out, technology must correspond to wartime. Those. simpler, more reliable, cheaper, mass. Especially in the conditions of modern warfare, where radio suppression, electronic blocking, interference, etc. are widely used.

      Oh, dear man! I then agree with you, but take a look at our drivers, they would press a button - and victory. Neither Putin nor Medvedev served in the army, nor crawled in real dirt. Saint Demetrius-Ayfononosets generally proposed to create an electronic system of voting and counting of votes, this is where it is possible to do not all 146%, but all 250. Rogozin the dreamer is talking about some kind of “smart pool”, like, shot up, and she flew around the corner to the target. These fantasies of the Vesnukhins come back to us. hi
  29. plotnikov561956
    plotnikov561956 25 September 2015 18: 32 New
    +6
    Weapons of increased complexity requiring competent operation .. only in the competent hands of professionals ... namely professionals .. from the word PROFESSION .. !!! It remains to add on my own .. it's just a competent solution to such a question
    1. Penzyac
      Penzyac 25 September 2015 20: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: plotnikov561956
      Weapons of increased complexity requiring competent operation .. only in the competent hands of professionals ... namely professionals .. from the word PROFESSION .. !!! It remains to add on my own .. it's just a competent solution to such a question

      But, all this does not mean that conscripts will not be introduced to Armata at all. I think at first they will be taught some kind of "introductory" and "short" courses, and as the troops become saturated with this equipment, there will also be reasons for more in-depth training of the mobile reserve in the management, maintenance and combat use of Armat both on simulators and as part of mixed training crews parts on real tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and other equipment on a new base (Armata, Kurganets-25, Boomerang ...). Although, of course, only sufficiently trained crews will be "fighting" in the Armata, especially since, as announced, the maximum interchangeability of all crew members and their separation into mech-water, the commander and the weapons operator should be quite formal ...
  30. Alexey Boukin
    Alexey Boukin 25 September 2015 18: 43 New
    +3
    Quote: veksha50
    Hmm ... But then a guy should get elementary military skills ???

    Yes, every conscript must receive elementary military skills while serving in the army. And then, as in Soviet times, you need to call them for retraining. introduce new equipment, teach it to use. Each reserve soldier must have his own military specialty and at any time be ready to professionally begin his duties.
    1. Barakuda
      Barakuda 25 September 2015 18: 54 New
      +1
      And what are "elementary"? Any Kalash to serve, tear the shape of a thorn, be able to eat it, dashingly jump over the fence, throw a grenade?
      Well, revive the Military Commissar at school. . I knew this baby talk how I was born, Father, sorry, I was a battalion commander then. .
  31. TOR2
    TOR2 25 September 2015 18: 53 New
    +4
    As for training, conscripts must be prepared in civilian life, in the educational institution where he receives the profession, or in the appropriate centers. It will turn out much cheaper and more efficiently, and during the year of service he will undergo a "production practice".
    As for World War 3, it will not be similar to the previous ones. Thousands of draftees will be simply useless if the industry stops. Therefore, the main preparation is a quick cover for their vital centers and inflicting unacceptable damage on the enemy.
    1. Yuyuka
      Yuyuka 25 September 2015 22: 31 New
      +1
      in addition - why not use the Soviet experience? in the sense of patriotic education and training starting with Zarnitsa, NVP. Especially with modern technology, this can be done interesting for young people. Now, most likely, it is a matter of uninhabited technologies, remote control of equipment, therefore, the intellectual preparation of the mobile reserve is in the first place, and the level of general education unfortunately falls.
  32. mamont5
    mamont5 25 September 2015 18: 53 New
    +2
    Quote: Basarev
    And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.

    That's right, but ... you need to have a reserve. And how to prepare it, except for urgent service, at least minimal.
    1. trigger
      trigger 25 September 2015 19: 01 New
      -7
      Quote: mamont5
      That's right, but ... you need to have a reserve. And how to prepare it, except for urgent service, at least minimal.

      I have not heard about military departments? You can also teach the military craft at least in school, it’s not the highest mathematics, soldiers do not need much intelligence.
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 25 September 2015 20: 00 New
        +4
        Quote: trigger
        Well this is not higher mathematics, soldier a lot of mind is not necessary

        You’ll go far .. I’m wanging - to be in your turtles, and soon .. wassat
      2. Beaver
        Beaver 25 September 2015 21: 17 New
        +4
        Quote: trigger
        soldier a lot of mind is not necessary

        I heard a similar opinion from one snotty major: only suckers serve in the army. I confess that the idiot was not crippled - there would be too many witnesses.
      3. pv1005
        pv1005 26 September 2015 09: 36 New
        +1
        Quote: trigger
        Quote: mamont5
        That's right, but ... you need to have a reserve. And how to prepare it, except for urgent service, at least minimal.

        I have not heard about military departments? You can also teach the military craft at least in school, it’s not the highest mathematics, soldiers do not need much intelligence.


        It looks like a respected tower has failed too.
  33. uestlend
    uestlend 25 September 2015 19: 03 New
    0
    It’s all right when they put them in charge of the equipment for the victory parade, and he says that they don’t care about the technology, we’ll be on the demobilization, bring down the taiga! And not ride on tanks.
  34. Sergey-72
    Sergey-72 25 September 2015 19: 08 New
    +1
    They recruit in the high school of the city of Chelyabinsk tough guys with a sparkle in their eyes and two years of the type of CPC or DOSAAF and for 3 years in the army, let's say something like this.
  35. Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack 25 September 2015 19: 12 New
    +1
    all right - conscripts did not always cope with old cars - but here a whole new level.
  36. Retvizan 8
    Retvizan 8 25 September 2015 19: 16 New
    +2
    Guys, well, what to argue about? Of course, a professional will be of more use than a person inexperienced! Well, can you prepare a pro for a year? In any profession, masters have been preparing for more than one year, and experience plays a big role here. Moreover, the tank is fancy!
    1. Beaver
      Beaver 25 September 2015 21: 22 New
      0
      Quote: Retvizan 8
      can I prepare a pro for a year?

      It is possible only with the continuation of work in the specialty.
  37. Evgeniy30
    Evgeniy30 25 September 2015 19: 37 New
    +2
    Quote: Basarev
    And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.

    Sorry, but you just wrote nonsense. Who told you that a “professional” army is good that it is better trained, more efficient, etc.?
    No wonder pi indos are so eager to introduce everywhere "democracies" with the "contract" armies that they are promoting. Who said that the draft army is less trained, less effective?
    Did the Americans fight a lot? These vaunted pros, when it gets hot, run losing bloomers. Will the contract army fight a lot, without the possibility of replenishment with a less suitable mobilization resource familiar with the army?
  38. Mera joota
    Mera joota 25 September 2015 19: 55 New
    0
    Well, really ... Guessed ... How many expensive equipment ruined conscripts did not count. The fleet suffered especially from this, which after playful pens of conscripts urgently needed major repairs and was quietly dying ...
  39. Tjeck
    Tjeck 25 September 2015 20: 03 New
    0
    so that's right, the main thing is that all sorts of ministers for songs about professionals do not cut the order from 2100 to 21 units. By the way, talking with acquaintances who are passing or who have served, I have not heard from them that they can’t fight in old t-72s, it’s mainly young people who always give new things to them — from iPhones to tanks.
  40. YGV-97219
    YGV-97219 25 September 2015 20: 13 New
    0
    And rightly so! Professionals must manage a high-tech product no matter how trite it sounds!
  41. RUSIVAN
    RUSIVAN 25 September 2015 20: 13 New
    0
    Personally, my opinion is that conscripts need to be trained in such tanks, and unconditionally trust contract soldiers.
  42. iouris
    iouris 25 September 2015 20: 34 New
    +2
    As if the "conscripts" did not sue discrimination. Tank doesn’t care: “conscript” or “contractor”. I remember how one big boss (apparently a theorist), speaking to practitioners, said: "Here is the MiG-31 - such an advanced aircraft that at least an academy must be completed to replace it with a wheel!"
    In fact, (in theory) everything (should) be the other way around: the more advanced the military equipment, the easier it is to operate and maintain it. Otherwise, what is the point of rearming the army?
    Second question. I have not heard anything about the simulator. Mastering a tank, a plane, a ship without an integrated simulator is impossible today. Before the new type enters the troops, both fighters and crews and units must already master its use on the simulator. Only a simulator will allow you to work out actions in situations that are difficult to simulate "in kind" and at the same time objectively evaluate all decisions and actions.
  43. Denis_469
    Denis_469 25 September 2015 20: 41 New
    +1
    It’s bad that there will be contractors. During the war, they will quickly end and the call will rule. This is during the Franco-Prussian War, Frederick proved. In the sense of the superiority of the draft army over the mercenary during the war of equal armies. Here the contract soldiers in the battles will die and the call will come. What for then that "Armata" will be needed if the conscript is not mastered?
    1. t7310
      t7310 26 September 2015 22: 06 New
      0
      during the Franco-Prussian War Frederick proved. In the sense of the superiority of the draft army over the mercenary during the war of equal armies


      yes yes ... well, at least not the Bedouins remembered where each to himself and the police and the hunter and the warrior and it is not clear to whom to comb the biduins to draftees or professionals ...

      but around our time ... during the US-Iraq war ...
      as I understand it, you are not opposed to falling asleep as funerals during the war of your near and dear ones, as judging by statistics, conscripts die in our time more often than professionals

      draftees were always cheap cannon fodder ... even when they won
  44. konvalval
    konvalval 25 September 2015 20: 42 New
    0
    Quote: Basarev
    And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.

    And who will scuffle this technique? You?
    1. t7310
      t7310 26 September 2015 22: 12 New
      0
      And who will scuffle this technique? You?


      and the state has a fight
  45. Nebit73
    Nebit73 25 September 2015 20: 43 New
    +4
    Everything in this world is perishable.
    10. RBC-500AO 380 kg

    One-time bomb cassette. It is equipped with 15 self-aiming anti-tank warheads equipped with dual-mode infrared target coordinators. Designed for "cutting" of modern tanks and other armored vehicles in any conditions. At the same time, it can erase six tanks.
  46. Nebit73
    Nebit73 25 September 2015 20: 51 New
    +1
    Opponents also have a counterweight.
    Name: CBU-97 / B

    Type: cluster bomb with anti-tank submunitions

    Warhead Type: 10pcs self-aiming submunitions BLU-108 SFW.

    Warhead weight, kg: up to 42

    Manufacturer: USA

    Weight, kg: 450

    Length, m: 2.34

    Diameter, m: 0.406

    High-performance cluster munition designed to destroy armored vehicles. It is used with many tactical aircraft of NATO countries.

    The flight of one squadron and there is no longer such a brigade.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 25 September 2015 20: 58 New
      +4
      Quote: Nebit73
      The flight of one squadron and there is no longer such a brigade.

      Let it fly first. Or do you think that there will be a tank brigade without air cover, as well as without air defense systems, which will politely miss everything by turning off the radars?
      1. pv1005
        pv1005 26 September 2015 09: 46 New
        +1
        Well, what are you really nervous about, a person has no idea about dispersal and what part of the area a team occupies. If the squadron even breaks through, it will tear to iron such an area.
  47. Nebit73
    Nebit73 25 September 2015 21: 08 New
    0
    As we always do, "The dagger is good when it is, at the right time ....."
  48. shurik
    shurik 25 September 2015 21: 19 New
    +1
    Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
    Quote: Basarev
    And I initially said that Russia needed an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts there. Our demographic resources are limited and therefore it is necessary to fight with quality and skill, and not like the Chinese - to fill up with corpses.

    I agree, but 100% making the army a contract is a big mistake. In the case of general mobilization, you will have to learn how to use the machine from scratch. And if in the days of the USSR the army would be contracted, then now Donbass would have long been captured by the forces of the ATO. Nobody would be able to use the D30 so harmoniously.

    Do you think that someone taught them something to the Ukrainian army? Did you serve in her?
    1. The comment was deleted.
  49. Cat man null
    Cat man null 25 September 2015 21: 41 New
    +2
    Quote: Shurik
    Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
    I agree, but on 100%, making a contract army is a big mistake. In the case of general mobilization, you will have to learn from scratch how to use the machine. And if in the days of the USSR the army would be contracted, then now Donbass would have long been captured by the forces of the ATO. Nobody would be able to use D30 so harmoniously

    Did you serve in her?

    He didn’t serve you at all. He finally dates. Stock. In life. Date Theorist laughing

    Quote: Basarev
    And I initially said that Russia needs an exclusively professional army, without any conscripts

    Wildly amusing flight of thoughts:

    - began with the fact that professionals should serve in Armata
    - There is no Armata yet, professionals, respectively, if necessary, then definitely a little
    - smoothly moved to a contract-non-contract army
    - soon follows, IMHO, to expect "ships plowing the expanses of the Bolshoi Theater"

    Apparently, Friday affects what
  50. question
    question 25 September 2015 21: 48 New
    +1
    What are you arguing about?!? They will be released until 2200 2300 pieces, TOTAL! And, in case of war (pah, pah) it will not work to stamp them, like t-34! And they will be protected as I don’t know what! Accordingly, the training of tankers should be at the level.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 25 September 2015 21: 50 New
      +1
      Quote: question
      They will be released until 2200 2300 pieces, TOTAL!

      Excuse me, what is the total number of modern tanks in Europe?
    2. Cat man null
      Cat man null 25 September 2015 22: 00 New
      0
      Quote: question
      Their Until 2200 year will release 2300 pieces, TOTAL!

      And what, already plans for 185 years ahead have begun to make up? wink

      Until 2020, still, probably ..