Military Review

The Russian government abandoned the idea of ​​creating private armies.

95
The Russian government refused to approve the draft law on the creation of private military companies (PMCs), initiated by State Duma deputy Gennady Nosovko, RIA reports "News".




According to the newspaper, during the examination, experts from the relevant departments - the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Ministry of Defense and the FSB - considered that the bill was not timely and contrary to Russian legislation. However, the author of the project is going to rework the document and will try to prove to the authorities the need for PMCs in the Russian Federation. According to him, in November 2015, the finalized document will be handed over to the government for another examination.

“If this time the officials issue a negative verdict, I, without waiting for the opinion of government experts, will submit the bill to the parliament in 2015 year during the autumn session. Russia needs PMCs that will protect the country's economic interests in the Arctic and the Middle East, ”Nosovko stressed.

This draft law states that PMCs will provide security, military and consulting services for the country, as well as individuals and legal entities under strict control.

According to the authors, the creation of such organizations will allow to resolve the issue of the employment of several employees of power structures, as well as military personnel who quit or fell under the reduction.
Photos used:
http://globallookpress.com/
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  1. insafufa
    insafufa 23 September 2015 08: 59 New
    -1
    We also lack private armies
    1. Uncle VasyaSayapin
      Uncle VasyaSayapin 23 September 2015 09: 08 New
      -6
      PMCs in Russia are needed, but not inside the country, but outside. But then it’s somehow ugly to turn out: inside we forbid, but outside we allow.
      1. demo
        demo 23 September 2015 10: 19 New
        +5
        A classic example is the Foreign Legion.
        At home, they do not have the right to act, and abroad, please.
        Question.
        And where does Russia need to use the aircraft abroad?
        Not even the sun, but the ground forces?
        Because PMCs have neither aviation, nor fleet, nor strategic missile forces, etc.
        1. Penetrator
          Penetrator 23 September 2015 10: 32 New
          +3
          Quote: demo
          A classic example is the Foreign Legion.
          At home, they do not have the right to act, and abroad, please.

          Invalid example. The foreign legion is subordinate to the French government. Therefore, it officially protects the interests of the French state abroad. PMCs are free to conclude contracts for the provision of their services. not being guided by a political situation, only being guided by the legislation of the country. With proper use and control, it is a fairly effective policy tool.
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 23 September 2015 11: 27 New
            +2
            There is no ban on the activities of the Foreign Legion domestically. Its units are partially deployed in the main territory of France, partly in overseas departments and territories. This is an integral part of the ground forces, a lightly armed elite formation. And the tasks can be performed both on the territory of the country and abroad. And the French Republic officially sends its units to perform certain tasks and does not hide it.
          2. varov14
            varov14 23 September 2015 11: 33 New
            0
            “With proper use and control, it’s a fairly effective policy tool,” suppressing popular discontent, the army may not support it.
            1. strannik1985
              strannik1985 23 September 2015 11: 42 New
              +4
              For actions within the country, including to suppress riots (officially, i.e. they are completely openly preparing for this), there are explosives, special forces, riot police, this is only part of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and there are detachments of the Federal Security Service, anti-drug special forces, Special Forces FSIN ... against this background PMC-0.
        2. varov14
          varov14 23 September 2015 11: 29 New
          -2
          The foreign legion is not yet affordable for us, and the guarantor perfectly protects our oligarchs. All these PMCs are on our head with you, this prokhindey deputy has long been a non-people and apparently sleeps and then gets cold that they can once remove from the feeder.
          1. Penetrator
            Penetrator 23 September 2015 13: 10 New
            0
            Quote: varov14
            Foreign Legion is not affordable for us yet

            Is it 8 thousand troops to keep "we can not afford"? And with a comparable monetary content with the French legionnaires? Do not make me laugh. Just not advisable. Now, if citizens of the CIS and non-CIS countries decide to recruit for service in the RF Armed Forces, then yes - it may be necessary to form such a connection.
        3. opus
          opus 24 September 2015 00: 53 New
          0
          Quote: demo
          At home, they do not have the right to act, and abroad, please.

          1. Légion étrangère not PMCs, but military unit, part of the ground forces of France.
          2. How many times have I been to France, Paris, etc.
          so many times I saw a foreign legion (Légion étrangère) guarding important state objects and guarding ... a legion point




          and in parades, well, there


          and at the nursery school contests

          I wonder why he is there if
          Quote: demo
          Domestically, they do not have the right

          ?
          and yes:

          ----------------------
          but these are not “mercenaries,” but volunteers (recruitment principle)
          Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions of 12, August 1949, concerning the protection of victims of international armed conflicts (Protocol I). Geneva, 8 of June 1977 of the year (entered into force 8 of June 1977 of the year. Ratified by the Supreme Soviet of the USSR on 4 of August 1989)
          According to international and French laws, recruitment into the Foreign Legion on the territory of another state is prohibited. Therefore, you can enroll in the Legion only at specified points (France). The French Embassy does not assist in entering the Legion.
      2. Mic1969
        Mic1969 23 September 2015 11: 09 New
        +2
        There are enough PSCs inside the country, but outside the country they are even needed
      3. PSih2097
        PSih2097 23 September 2015 15: 33 New
        0
        Quote: Uncle VasyaSayapin
        PMCs in Russia are needed, but not inside the country, but outside. But then it’s somehow ugly to turn out: inside we forbid, but outside we allow.

        And RosAtom, Gazprom, Rosneft, etc. etc. not the same PMCs? I saw something like their equipment, the army with the cops nervously smoking on the sidelines, except that SpetsNaz is more or less like it.
        1. strannik1985
          strannik1985 23 September 2015 18: 02 New
          +1
          И
          And RosAtom, Gazprom, Rosneft, etc. etc. not the same PMCs? I saw something like their equipment, the army with the cops nervously smoking on the sidelines, except that SpetsNaz is more or less like it.

          Not the same, a lot of nuances in knowledge of laws, preparation, knowledge of languages, etc. Let us examine the case with the Prirazlomnaya platform
          And I do not exclude that the guards in this chop are very decent people, but decent people are not a specialty. Each security guard must have a seaworthy book, seafarer's ID, SSO courses (Ship security officer onboard a ship), and they must take special SOLAS and STCW 95 courses (survival rates on a ship: the actions of each team member in the event of a breach on the vessel, fire, flooding, safe leaving the vessel, working with lifeboats, etc.).
          Without these minimum documents, the security guards of the PSC do not have the right to be on board the ship, even in the economic zone of the Russian Federation. Without these elementary skills, in the event of a man-made disaster, they will be like ballast and will be among the first candidates for death at sea. And most importantly, this private security company lacks elementary experience in the fight against piracy. I'm not talking about armed pirates. The analysis of the video recordings of the Greenpish attack on the Prirazlomnaya platform shows that the security from the PSC was dormant, stupidly looking at the Greenpeepers on the platform, someone was shooting all the events on the phone for the home archive.
          I am sure that if, at that moment, specialists from the RSB-Group were fighting against pirates at Prirazlomnaya, the events would have turned out quite differently. Using UAVs and HyperSpike acoustic guns, as well as employees trained under the “combat swimmers” program, we could provide a safety zone around the platform with a radius of at least 300 meters not only on the water surface, but also under water (by law, this is no less than 500 meters).
          http://rusplt.ru/society/voennie-chastniki-8795.html
          1. PSih2097
            PSih2097 23 September 2015 23: 00 New
            0
            [
            Quote: strannik1985
            Not the same, a lot of nuances in knowledge of laws, preparation, knowledge of languages, etc. Let us examine the case with the Prirazlomnaya platform

            These are different cases ... A guard or a fighter, he is a guard in Africa or from a fighter ...
            1. strannik1985
              strannik1985 24 September 2015 07: 40 New
              0
              These are different cases ... A guard or a fighter, he is a guard in Africa or from a fighter ...

              Glad to know your point of view, will you argue your position?
              What then is LUKOIL whose "own army" in Iraq used the services of the British, and now the local PMC?
    2. Penetrator
      Penetrator 23 September 2015 09: 12 New
      +11
      Quote: insafufa
      We also lack private armies

      Imagine not enough. PMCs are able to protect the interests of the state in cases where the use of the Armed Forces is undesirable or inappropriate. An example of the Ukrainian conflict to help you - European and American PMCs are quite actively involved in hostilities on the side of Kiev. Another thing is that we need a carefully developed legislative framework governing the organization and activities of private armed groups.
      1. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 23 September 2015 09: 56 New
        +3
        The Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Ministry of Defense and the FSB, which gave a negative CV to PMCs, are bodies working within the state and whose tasks should not overlap with those of PMCs.
        PMCs should be examined by special agencies working abroad, including such as the GRU, the Foreign Ministry, and others, as well as large Russian enterprises working abroad.
        1. varov14
          varov14 23 September 2015 11: 43 New
          -1
          It’s abroad that Russian enterprises can create PMCs - the master of the master, if there are any money.
        2. Kilo-11
          Kilo-11 23 September 2015 18: 14 New
          0
          In fact, the main task of the Ministry of Defense is to protect the country from possible external aggression, and the GRU is an integral part of the Ministry of Defense-GRU of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. So it’s not right to call the Ministry of Defense an internal body and separate the Defense Ministry and the GRU. units that operate abroad.
      2. afdjhbn67
        afdjhbn67 23 September 2015 10: 05 New
        +8
        Russia should realize its geopolitical interests with the support of its own state institutions - the army, the foreign ministry and the special services.

        Kolomoisky’s pocket army’s experience in Ukraine must have explained a lot to Putin, too, oligarchs up to x and more .. if they don’t shake the country, they will go to defend Putin (the state), but the interests of the oligarch-breadwinner.
        The whole topic is clearly pushed from the filing of our oligarchs, because it’s not us and our colleagues who will create them - our destiny is only to be “cannon fodder” ...
        1. afdjhbn67
          afdjhbn67 23 September 2015 10: 22 New
          +1
          Well, citizens are minuscule people - pour water on the mill of the oligarchy .. laughing
        2. varov14
          varov14 23 September 2015 11: 45 New
          +1
          Finally a sound comment.
        3. PSih2097
          PSih2097 23 September 2015 15: 39 New
          +1
          Quote: afdjhbn67
          Kolomoisky’s pocket army’s experience in Ukraine must have explained a lot to Putin, too, oligarchs up to x and more .. if they don’t shake the country, they will go to defend Putin (the state), but the interests of the oligarch-breadwinner.
          The whole topic is clearly pushed from the filing of our oligarchs, because it’s not us and our colleagues who will create them - our destiny is only to be “cannon fodder” ...

          If we rely on American experience, we will see that the main contracts for PMCs come from the US government, and not from left-wing businessmen, because there is very strict legislation regarding private owners (PMCs).
      3. varov14
        varov14 23 September 2015 11: 39 New
        -1
        So at Amerov and private prisons, and there the gratuitous labor (slave) force is spent on corporations, why not introduce it. I am surprised at you by the military; in addition to the charter and special subjects, were you allowed to read anything in educational institutions, even in Soviet times?
      4. shtanko.49
        shtanko.49 23 September 2015 12: 45 New
        +2
        PMCs would be very useful in Ukraine and other conflicts.
      5. user
        user 23 September 2015 13: 17 New
        0
        Imagine not enough.


        In pursuit of short-term benefits and temporary interests. We simply return to the beginning of the 90s, remember all kinds of security offices of Berezovsky and other comrades. If my memory serves me right, most of them were created by former KGB officers (even the first deputy chairman of the KGB was noticed), but they also covered themselves with statements of this kind about the device of dismissed law enforcement officers. First, they will allow the activity of such structures, then they will expand the scope of tasks to be solved, then they will expand their powers, then they will be taken outside the framework of certain legislative acts. Well, the country has already passed this, or everyone’s memory is short when a lot of all kinds of people traveled with cities with guns in the cities of our country, it’s not clear to anyone who belongs and who obeys, but with all the necessary and legally executed weapons documents. It’s just another attempt to release gin from a bottle that will not be controlled and controlled by no one but the owner (like it or not, but the owner will be, business is business). And the next oligarch (well, or a respected businessman, moreover, occupying some sort of high official post) will manage this private army.
        1. reklats34
          reklats34 23 September 2015 14: 01 New
          +1
          with 90 nothing has changed in this regard, they also have their own security offices and people where necessary
    3. afdjhbn67
      afdjhbn67 23 September 2015 09: 14 New
      +2
      Thank God the mind prevailed .. apparently took into account the experience of Kolomoisky ..
      1. little girl15
        little girl15 23 September 2015 09: 44 New
        0
        Each oligarch has his own small army? Very original ...
      2. Mic1969
        Mic1969 23 September 2015 11: 10 New
        +1
        And what is your opinion on PSCs?
      3. SibSlavRus
        SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 11: 16 New
        0
        But it’s nothing that Kolomoisky hired western (already existing) PMCs, where citizens of any state (including the country itself 404) have the right to enter. Officially, there were no PMCs in Ukraine and there are none, except for private security companies, which have actually become "personnel" mercenaries.
        Plus, official terbats and national battalions (and this is already departmental units!), In comparison with which, by designation, even PMC contractors turn pale.
        And the nat- and terbats are a full-fledged state hiring in the war zone!
        So, is it worth it to fear the "limited" PMC services when it comes to legal names only?
    4. Babr
      Babr 23 September 2015 09: 15 New
      +6
      "According to the authors, the creation of such organizations will solve the problem of the employment of several employees of law enforcement agencies, as well as military personnel who have quit or have been reduced"
      Under the reduction fall, or objectionable, or not suitable.
      So this is not an argument.
      PMC, this is an attempt to legalize the gangs of the 90s.
      1. Penetrator
        Penetrator 23 September 2015 09: 22 New
        +1
        Quote: Babr

        PMC, this is an attempt to legalize the gangs of the 90s.

        Rave. Where was the last time you saw something similar to the "gangster formations of the 90s"?
        Once again, in our realities, PMCs are needed exclusively for use outside the borders of the Russian Federation. Only in this capacity they have the right to exist.
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 23 September 2015 10: 15 New
          +4
          Quote: Penetrator
          Once again, in our realities, PMCs are needed exclusively for use outside the borders of the Russian Federation.
          The USSR did without any PMCs, quite successfully. You can recall the experience of Vietnam, officially, our troops were not there.
          1. Babr
            Babr 23 September 2015 10: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: Stirbjorn
            officially, our troops were not there.

            Officially. At one time, a soldier of OSNAZ. Microphone interception. Intercepted, and Boeing bye-bye. But this was decided by the state, to which I took the oath.
            1. afdjhbn67
              afdjhbn67 23 September 2015 11: 10 New
              +1
              not "Purple" served as an hour?
              1. Babr
                Babr 23 September 2015 12: 53 New
                0
                Quote: afdjhbn67
                not "Purple" served as an hour?

                Purple. I do not understand.
                ARTEM. 71-73.g
                1. afdjhbn67
                  afdjhbn67 23 September 2015 13: 54 New
                  +1
                  Violet - call sign
                  1. Babr
                    Babr 24 September 2015 06: 36 New
                    0
                    Quote: afdjhbn67
                    Violet - call sign

                    Secrecy was at its best, so the call sign does not tell me anything.
          2. reklats34
            reklats34 23 September 2015 14: 04 New
            -1
            so when your conscript son will die somewhere in Syria, Ukraine or where else I will see how you sing
        2. Babr
          Babr 23 September 2015 10: 18 New
          +2
          Quote: Penetrator
          Brad.

          Each private company is focused on increasing the profits of private owners.
          Well, she fulfilled the state’s order. Over the hill. Positive.
          And the rest? Plain? But the content lies on the shoulders of the private trader, not the state. Naturally, there is also a domestic market. And this is banditry.
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 23 September 2015 14: 02 New
            0
            Quote: Babr
            Plain? But the content lies on the shoulders of the private trader, not the state

            Yes it is.

            Quote: Babr
            Well, naturally there is also a domestic market

            No, not on the inside.

            PMCs are prohibited from working in the domestic market. Well, except for the tasks of the chop chop, so these chop-s - like dogs uncut .. competition, s ..

            But there are tasks outside the Russian Federation. The same ship security on risk routes.

            Quote: Babr
            And this is banditry

            Not bigger than it is now.

            IMHO
      2. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 23 September 2015 10: 18 New
        +3
        Quote: Babr
        "According to the authors, the creation of such organizations will solve the problem of the employment of several employees of law enforcement agencies, as well as military personnel who have quit or have been reduced"
        Send these hefty foreheads to the fields, harvest the crop or there to the machine tools at the plants. And then some guards
        1. Babr
          Babr 23 September 2015 11: 01 New
          +1
          Not my words, but support. lol
        2. Penetrator
          Penetrator 23 September 2015 11: 04 New
          -1
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          Send these hefty foreheads to the fields, harvest the crop or there to the machine tools at the plants. And then some guards

          And you, apparently, write directly from the machine or from a rural field?
          1. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 23 September 2015 13: 38 New
            +1
            Quote: Penetrator
            And you, apparently, write directly from the machine or from a rural field?
            I am an engineer.
        3. strannik1985
          strannik1985 23 September 2015 13: 51 New
          +2
          Why not? After all, we are talking about officers dismissed from the ranks.
          If in agriculture they provide similar earnings (EMNIP O. Krinitsyn talked about 2-2,5 thousand dollars for piloting one vessel, plus the cost of a ticket and insurance (up to 250 thousand US dollars)) foreheads themselves will run to the fields :)))
        4. reklats34
          reklats34 23 September 2015 14: 06 New
          -1
          these healthy foreheads will come to you and send you to the field
      3. PSih2097
        PSih2097 23 September 2015 15: 45 New
        0
        Quote: Babr
        PMC, this is an attempt to legalize the gangs of the 90s.

        Do you even know what screenings go when accepting PMCs? in the same USA only hired military personnel with very fucking stress resistance (this is after haemorrhage with black water) and excellent recommendations from the army or law enforcement agencies are hired, a bandyuk will not even get there. and in hohland they got rabble a la ISIS - fanatics and perverts plus adrenaline addicts ...
        1. Babr
          Babr 24 September 2015 06: 51 New
          -1
          Quote: PSih2097
          Do you even know what screenings go when accepting PMCs?

          Actually, I am aware of. With what system I live. Where everything is for sale and everything is bought. If it’s not for money, then for big, it’s necessary.
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 24 September 2015 07: 51 New
            0
            In order for the contractor to get entangled in the card and the guarded person was nearly shot upon leaving at checkpoint (a case from the practice of RSB-Group in Iraq)?
    5. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 23 September 2015 09: 23 New
      +6
      insafufa
      We also lack private armies

      Perhaps this is true ... that PMCs will not ... We like in Russia, love extremes - or kiss in a hickey to unconsciousness ... or beat to death!
      Figuratively speaking - PMCs are unlikely to kiss anyone so passionately ... but to beat ... without question, immediately with initiative, and enthusiasm ... and only then figure it out ...
    6. vkl-47
      vkl-47 23 September 2015 09: 25 New
      +6
      And to whom the PMCs will swear the oath ?? Yukos? There is CSN here it needs to be expanded
      1. Penetrator
        Penetrator 23 September 2015 09: 33 New
        +4
        Quote: vkl-47
        And to whom the PMCs will swear the oath ?? Yukos? There is CSN here it needs to be expanded

        And what, SPC will, for example, organize logistics and support of cargo columns? Or protect civilian objects? This is me specifically on the issue of the use of PMCs in zones of armed conflict outside of Russia. Anyway, what does the special forces? The tasks are completely different between well-armed guards and the elite of special services.
      2. SibSlavRus
        SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 10: 22 New
        0
        PMCs swear an oath. To the state, as a rule. An international organization such as the UN, CSTO, SCO, when hired by a contractor.
        Unfair or non-fulfillment of the state contract leads to the actual liquidation (disbanding and dissolution), after penalties, of the organization.
        Private and individuals are limited only by security and consulting functions of PMCs.
      3. PSih2097
        PSih2097 23 September 2015 15: 48 New
        0
        Quote: vkl-47
        there is a CSN here it needs to be expanded

        CSN is a little creepy, all the same, the military personnel of the Russian Federation after all, but in the case of PMCs at your own peril and risk ...
    7. Chiropractor
      Chiropractor 23 September 2015 09: 49 New
      +1
      Not in the country - yes, not enough, not enough.
      For what?
      I explain that in order to officially make it possible to send volunteers (read - PMC employees) to points of strategic importance with the available funds.
      Such as the LC and the DNI, Syria ...

      And the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are engaged only in the defense of the Russian Federation.
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 23 September 2015 10: 13 New
        +3
        Quote: Kostoprav
        I explain that in order to officially make it possible to send volunteers (read - PMC employees) to points of strategic importance with the available funds.
        PMCs (mercenaries) and volunteers are in itself a contradiction. And then the experience of Ukraine showed that there is no need for PMCs, volunteers and "vacationers" quite successfully cope.
        1. yushch
          yushch 23 September 2015 12: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          Quote: Kostoprav
          I explain that in order to officially make it possible to send volunteers (read - PMC employees) to points of strategic importance with the available funds.
          PMCs (mercenaries) and volunteers are in itself a contradiction. And then the experience of Ukraine showed that there is no need for PMCs, volunteers and "vacationers" quite successfully cope.


          And who do you think are "vacationers" ??? I will answer right away that these are “contract soldiers” in the Western sense of the word, that is, military experts who suggested that they continue to use their skills and knowledge not only in the Russian army, but in private terms, so to speak. Do not confuse the state’s security issues and issues of resolving sensitive issues, where the state shouldn’t formally shine.
          1. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 23 September 2015 13: 45 New
            0
            Quote: yushch
            I will answer right away that these are “contract soldiers” in the Western sense of the word, that is, military experts who suggested that they continue to use their skills and knowledge not only in the Russian army, but in private terms, so to speak.
            Wait, if vacationers voluntarily went, without a monetary reward, then these are volunteers. And if on the instructions of the Ministry of Defense, the regular military personnel were the same as in Vietnam. Kosarev has an autobiographical novel, Cardboard Stars, on this subject, including about conspiracy.
            "Everything is invented before us"
            1. yushch
              yushch 23 September 2015 14: 19 New
              0
              So the point is that volunteers and vacationers are a little different. Volunteers cannot gather and appear in the right place at the right time, and vacationers can. And they are not at this time in military service. Therefore, I say that Volunteer the corps existing with the money of sponsors and directly “not subordinate” to the state would solve such issues very effectively. Indeed, many sympathizers are precisely stopped by the lack of structures of generating volunteers for teaming up in units and performing combat missions.
    8. yushch
      yushch 23 September 2015 10: 58 New
      +1
      Why not, as an option, create a “Volunteer Corps ???” It's no secret that many volunteers at the initial stage go to war without equipment and weapons, and in the case of centralized collection and dispatch, no complaints about the use of the Russian army, especially without insignia, no one will have it because all are volunteers, and there will be a lot of them.
    9. varov14
      varov14 23 September 2015 11: 23 New
      0
      Just go .otov must be isolated in time, and not elected by deputies.
    10. does it
      does it 23 September 2015 19: 51 New
      +1
      Quote: insafufa
      We also lack private armies

      Byzantine script ...
  2. svetoruss
    svetoruss 23 September 2015 09: 01 New
    +6
    And rightly, otherwise each governor will instantly acquire his own PMC.
    1. Krasmash
      Krasmash 23 September 2015 09: 03 New
      +8
      Quote: svetoruss
      And rightly, otherwise each governor will instantly acquire his own PMC.

      Eeeee, one head of the region already has its own, not even PMCs, but a full-fledged army, yes. soldier
      1. Andryukha
        Andryukha 23 September 2015 10: 21 New
        +1
        But it is still illegal and it can be slowly clamped as needed.
        And after the adoption of the law, ANYONE can organize PMCs.
        Have you forgotten about NGOs?
    2. vovanpain
      vovanpain 23 September 2015 09: 06 New
      +18
      But after all, Mr. Nosovko said that everything is under control. Only what control we have is clear to everyone, anyone who has money can get a private army and no laws are given to him. The army is the prerogative of only the state.
    3. SibSlavRus
      SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 09: 29 New
      +1
      Don't bullshit please! Not a single civil servant (ilm municipal) privately has the right to hire PMCs.
      A complete understanding of the problem in Russian realities is not worth using Western patterns. As the law prescribes, so it will be fulfilled.
      1. SibSlavRus
        SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 09: 34 New
        +7
        Let me repeat myself in the commentary. The activities of PMCs (registered in the Russian Federation) include a ton of jobs for “specialists” prepared by the state at the time, taxes to budgets, and government orders, and they will draw some economic organizations, etc.
        The activities of PMCs are quite clearly regulated by federal law, as are the activities of private security companies. Not a single PMC is able to withstand, in the event of force majeure, the military and special forces of state structures. You understand that the possibilities will be limited by caliber and types of weapons, and controlled even by the same FSB and MO combined.
        And what, sorry, to hell, mercenarism, if this is an official organization in our country in the commercial register.
        As an example, I will cite the state structures 'hiring' to both Chechen companies through military registration and enlistment offices, or, if someone doesn’t know, then PMCs already have analogues, in fact, at large corporations (with appropriate weapons), VOKhRi and ChOPs, some of which are essentially contractors
        In the future, this is a unique Russian foreign policy toolkit. I’ll give another example (by type of activity I had to observe and collide) from the Former Yugoslavia, where some of our volunteers settled down. So they are engaged in humanitarian mine clearance! Territories, for example Bosnia, where only counted minefields for 70 years of work. And the UN hires them! Question to opponents of PMC idea - is this also an act of mercenary?
        Our PMCs will quickly create real competition for foreigners. The Russian peasants, just from the best side, proved themselves in the world.
        And the activity of PMCs is not only the protection and posting of columns, but also demining, training, humanitarian missions, ensuring the election process in countries with difficult military-political conditions, assisting the army of their country in peacekeeping operations, working for international humanitarian organizations and much more. The scale of organization and financing with state points of view - many times less in terms of mobility and efficiency, too.
        Leasing of military equipment, defense industry products is also possible. And this, you know, stimulates the economy. Plus, the likelihood (most likely) to legitimize combat short-barrels, including and the civilian environment, and improving legislation on the necessary (and long overdue!) self-defense of oneself, loved ones, one’s land, home and property.
        Why immediately put the Russian (possible!) PMCs on the same measuring scale with the same "Black Water" or MPRI, which carried out the liquidation of Srpska Krajina. Its Code of Honor and state ideology, like that of state power structures, and even legally backed up, because no one will be against implementation.
        A so-called dismantling of "clans and organizations" just effectively "takes place" within the framework of the "legal field" using state power structures. The rest is from the field of the theory of the "possibly-probable" in the collapse of the socio-political system.
        1. Penetrator
          Penetrator 23 September 2015 09: 41 New
          0
          SibSlavRus, great comment! Sorry, I can’t put more than one plus smile Catch More +++++++
          1. SibSlavRus
            SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 09: 58 New
            +1
            Grateful for the support of a competent and experienced person.
        2. Travian
          Travian 23 September 2015 09: 53 New
          +3
          romantic. PMCs is an instrument of external cynical nasty state policy. But we need to have it, because it will have to fight long and everywhere. It is precisely PMCs that should be evaluated as a Black Water or MPRI cotragment. And do not be shy about it - you need to defeat the enemy with his own weapons and method.
          1. SibSlavRus
            SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 10: 23 New
            0
            An impressive answer, Travian. Bravo!
        3. The comment was deleted.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  3. marlin1203
    marlin1203 23 September 2015 09: 02 New
    +3
    Well, why do people in the world need PMCs, but we don’t need them? Are we worse?
    1. Roman1970
      Roman1970 23 September 2015 09: 06 New
      +6
      Quote: marlin1203
      Well, why do people in the world need PMCs, but we don’t need them? Are we worse?

      I would not argue in this way ... better or worse ... There must be understanding. Namely: why are PMCs needed, is there any need for them? Then make an informed decision.
    2. zadorin1974
      zadorin1974 23 September 2015 09: 08 New
      +3
      As they wrote above, each aligarch will have his own small army. And to arrest an activist in the likeness of Gaiser, armored vehicles will have to be introduced into the cities with air support
    3. LVMI1980
      LVMI1980 23 September 2015 09: 17 New
      +5
      Well yes ... of course ... same-sex marriage is also allowed
    4. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 23 September 2015 09: 18 New
      +5
      Quote: marlin1203
      Well, why do people in the world need PMCs, but we don’t need them? Are we worse?

      And you imagine that some local "oligarch-Fuhrer" has acquired a private army (Dudayev in Chechnya can serve as an example) and began to commit lawlessness. All attempts to reason or arrest the criminals ended in the defeat of the internal troops due to the presence in the private army of the most up-to-date military equipment delivered from the USA. What should Russia start hostilities against such an army? And if you do not begin to pacify, then soon this territory will separate from Russia and become the military base of America.
      1. SibSlavRus
        SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 09: 42 New
        0
        What are you all mixed up in one pile? Do not know the history of the issue.
        What side did the events of the early 1990s draw into (if at all do you know what preceded those events?). You do not have cause-effect relationships.
        As they say: "do not confuse warm with soft."
        Sorry, but ... incorrect comparison.
      2. strannik1985
        strannik1985 23 September 2015 10: 53 New
        0
        And you imagine that some local "oligarch-Fuhrer" has acquired a private army (Dudayev in Chechnya can serve as an example) and began to commit lawlessness.

        The existing legislation in Russia does not in any way limit the activities of Russian PMCs outside the country; moreover, the bill, if it were adopted to create such structures, would only interfere.
        You are now confusing the law and the real state of affairs in the country, the creation of pocket militarized structures has nothing to do with any law (the mentioned Dudayev has done without any lawmaking), if the events of the early 90s are repeated, then pocket armies will appear (like gangs) regardless of the presence or absence of law.
        1. Aleksey_K
          Aleksey_K 23 September 2015 15: 11 New
          0
          Quote: strannik1985
          And you imagine that some local "oligarch-Fuhrer" has acquired a private army (Dudayev in Chechnya can serve as an example) and began to commit lawlessness.

          The existing legislation in Russia does not in any way limit the activities of Russian PMCs outside the country; moreover, the bill, if it were adopted to create such structures, would only interfere.
          You are now confusing the law and the real state of affairs in the country, the creation of pocket militarized structures has nothing to do with any law (the mentioned Dudayev has done without any lawmaking), if the events of the early 90s are repeated, then pocket armies will appear (like gangs) regardless of the presence or absence of law.

          I gave Dudaev only as an example - how difficult it is to cope with military formations that have gone out of submission and are creating lawlessness. We are still struggling with gangs.
          And you all here (readers) clung to the fact that I don’t know something there and cannot be compared.
          And judging by the phrase: "Dudayev has done without any lawmaking," you are also for the legislative recognition of such military groups.
          Do you all want to destroy Russia? So after all, the first will perish in the fire of rebellion. Remember: "Whoever comes to us with a sword will perish by the sword."
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 23 September 2015 16: 44 New
            +1
            And judging by the phrase: "Dudayev has done without any lawmaking," you are also for the legislative recognition of such military groups.

            Which groupings? What are you talking about? PMC Act outside the country, what does the situation within the Russian Federation?
            1. The comment was deleted.
    5. Babr
      Babr 23 September 2015 09: 19 New
      +6
      Quote: marlin1203
      Well, why do people in the world need PMCs, but we don’t need them? Are we worse?

      No worse. But Western values ​​are being imposed on us. Money is king and god.
      And this is disgusting to the Russian spirit.
  4. sl22277
    sl22277 23 September 2015 09: 03 New
    +6
    Who will control them? Private Army, private Constitution ..... There is a state Army to protect the state. Some deputies seem to have snickered so much that their heads do not differ from the asses of American politicians, or they fulfill the Pentagon order for the collapse of Russia from the inside. The private army is a gang for destruction objectionable!
    1. strannik1985
      strannik1985 23 September 2015 11: 09 New
      0
      .Private army is a gang to destroy the unwanted!

      There is such a thing as promoting the interests of the state abroad, protecting the interests of Russian companies abroad.
      There are a lot of situations (for example, as it is now in Syria) when the use of state power structures carries too great risks both inside (public opinion) of the country and abroad (an occasion for sanctions). PMCs can be one of such instruments, because no one will treat the losses of contractors so reverently as ordinary military personnel and there will not be (apart from the buzz on the Internet and the yellow press) reasoned evidence of Russia's military presence in the country (for example, in Sudan there is a large group of Chinese contractors (up to 40 people), work on all matters, including the release of hostages together with the Sudanese Armed Forces).
  5. Magic archer
    Magic archer 23 September 2015 09: 04 New
    +3
    Dear, in fact, everything is not so. They have existed for a long time. It's just not customary to talk about it. wink
    1. kirpich
      kirpich 23 September 2015 09: 09 New
      +7
      They exist illegally and illegally. If they are legalized, the oligarchs will turn in full force and it will be impossible to restrain them.
      1. strannik1985
        strannik1985 23 September 2015 11: 55 New
        0
        It’s ridiculous. We have only 182 thousand people in the Ministry of Internal Affairs BB, of whom 17 are in the composition of the Special Purpose Arms, all are armed with BMP-000, D-2 and PM-30, against ... whom?
    2. SibSlavRus
      SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 09: 44 New
      +3
      Your truth! What is not customary to talk about, but exists, must be placed within the legal framework.
  6. A-Sim
    A-Sim 23 September 2015 09: 05 New
    +7
    "... by the employment of several law enforcement officers, as well as military personnel who have quit or have been reduced."
    Is it for the sake of the device of several retirees he is busy?
    1. SibSlavRus
      SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 09: 46 New
      0
      Most likely, several tens of thousands. PMCs are a lot of non-combatant positions (from logisticians and lawyers to analysts and support staffs).
      1. SibSlavRus
        SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 10: 40 New
        0
        The activities of PMCs will greatly attract many sectors of the economy: from financial and credit to (especially) insurance. From leasing and purchase of "works" of the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation to special service enterprises and the service sector.
        And to hire contractors at the expense of the state budget (or most likely - departmental) will have to. But the benefit (in every sense) is obvious.
        You can use it absolutely everywhere: from peacekeeping and military operations (or rather, their support from engineering to rear) abroad and to teaching at DOSAAF and the centers for military-patriotic education and training of citizens (youth) for military service, military training, universities and colleges.
        The selection will be no worse in these organizations than in the Airborne Forces and the FSB combined.

        Many Russian experienced male professionals will be on hand!
        And maybe we generally stop hearing about radical religious fanatics and terrorists in our country. And this is only a guaranteed minimum.
        1. gudgeon
          gudgeon 23 September 2015 12: 02 New
          +2
          Quote: SibSlavRus
          The activities of PMCs will greatly attract many sectors of the economy: from financial and credit to (especially) insurance. From leasing and purchase of "works" of the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation to special service enterprises and the service sector.

          This is if the entire PMC is staked out, and several companies do not have a major impact.
          Quote: SibSlavRus
          You can use it absolutely everywhere: from peacekeeping and military operations (or rather, their support from engineering to rear) abroad

          Nizya! According to the UN Charter, peacekeeping forces are military contingents of UN member countries. And PMCs, by definition, are "private."
          Quote: SibSlavRus
          And maybe we generally stop hearing about radical religious fanatics and terrorists in our country.

          Terrorism within the country, in fact, is fought by operational-search methods, and not
          the military.
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 23 September 2015 12: 21 New
            +1
            Nizya! According to the UN Charter, peacekeeping forces are military contingents of UN member countries. And PMCs, by definition, are "private."

            This is already a gray zone of law, for example, the notorious Executive Outcomes in January 1995-February 1997 prepared army units of the Sierra Leone Armed Forces and conducted military operations against the rebels of the United Revolutionary Front (285 employees, 3 Mi-17s and 1 Mi-24s).
            Support for military operations (logistics, collection and destruction of unexploded ordnance and mines, removal from the battlefield and repair of wrecked equipment, food for military personnel, rear support, protection of military facilities and depots, prisons, etc.) are quite legitimate actions, and this Most of these organizations are involved.
            1. gudgeon
              gudgeon 23 September 2015 12: 37 New
              0
              Quote: strannik1985
              This is already a gray zone of law, for example, the notorious Executive Outcomes in January 1995-February 1997 prepared army units of the Sierra Leone Armed Forces and conducted military operations against the rebels of the United Revolutionary Front (285 employees, 3 Mi-17s and 1 Mi-24s).

              Were these peacekeeping operations authorized by the UN or a private contract of the Sierra Leone state with a specific PMC?
              1. strannik1985
                strannik1985 23 September 2015 13: 37 New
                0
                Were these peacekeeping operations authorized by the UN or a private contract of the Sierra Leone state with a specific PMC?

                The second one. A private contract in which contractors actually replaced peacekeepers.
            2. SibSlavRus
              SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 13: 07 New
              0
              wanderer1985, you are my plus.
              Well, if you remind, as an example, the opponent about the elimination of the Republika Srpska by the forces and means of MPRI, when there were both the UN and "other NATO peacekeepers".
              You can offer Georgia to him (with the training and supervision of Western PMC instructors), model 2008, where our peacekeepers stood under the UN mandate.
              This is just a snap.
          2. SibSlavRus
            SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 12: 54 New
            0
            Well, why are you so incompetent to oppose something, dear gudgeon?
            Not ready for the question at all? Then, counterargument.
            1. The whole country cannot be staked out; it will not work. But about five hundred and fifty experienced men who are not able to realize themselves to the fullest, can be provided with a completely worthy and profitable occupation.
            A little knowledge of demography, sociology, the newest recent history of the countries of Western Europe and North America, international relations and especially statistics, as well as data from completely open sources on the forms, methods and number of organizations of existing and existing PMCs (and they have permanent composition and timelines) will help you with understanding the matter.
            Using the services of only one “notorious” American PMC is, according to sources, about two billion dollars a year. And this is only the protection, wiring, engineering and rear support of the army by about three thousand contractors.
            The aggregate data are not amenable to refinement.
            For potential Russian companies, only insurance, loans and leasing, weapons, licenses, taxes, investments (of course not immediately, but who knows?), For example, for 100 thousand people. (based on the binding, for example, of the number of official security guards alone at 500 thousand) - this is billions of rubles to the budget, coupled with a waste of money of the contractors themselves within the country. And this is only offhand, without the purchase of weapons and ammunition and its own infrastructure.
            2. You can use PMCs anywhere and how. Glane as legally call it. Example (personal): countries of the Former Yugoslavia, in Bosnia (I already wrote about this upstream). Humanitarian mine clearance, engineering and logistics support, security, humanitarian operations support, etc. The customers are different: from the UN, the EU and to the military departments of the participating countries.
            Read O. Valetsky, a volunteer in the wars of the Former Yugoslavia, now he is a PMC mine clearance contractor.
            The UN Charter does not violate this. But NATO in general ... you know.
            1. SibSlavRus
              SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 13: 00 New
              -1
              I will continue ...
              3. Terrorism is fought by different methods. Carefully read the federal legislation and especially regarding the power structures.
              And now, for an example, remember how both Chechen companies were officially called and what the Ministry of Defense did there.

              I’m not even minus you, for it is a sin to offend ...
              1. gudgeon
                gudgeon 23 September 2015 13: 11 New
                0
                Quote: SibSlavRus
                I will continue ...
                3. Terrorism is fought by different methods. Carefully read the federal legislation and especially regarding the power structures.

                Gee gee! I have always believed that 20 years of service in the relevant operational units allow me to reasonably competently discuss issues of the fight against terrorism, but it’s like you ... I don’t understand ...

                Quote: SibSlavRus
                And now, for an example, remember how both Chechen companies were officially called and what the Ministry of Defense did there.

                And there was nobody else. Do you remember the state of power structures for that period? Ali prompt?
                Quote: SibSlavRus
                I’m not even minus you, for it is a sin to offend ...

                From thanks! such a gift from an amateur!
                1. SibSlavRus
                  SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 16: 57 New
                  +1
                  Answer in order (appropriate form of your comments).
                  1. Gee-gee. It’s shitty, but you have knowledge of the legislative framework governing the activities of law enforcement agencies (where even the customs authorities are recognized as the subject of the fight against terrorism and its manifestations). Only one amateur (in your words) will rely on one Federal Law "On the Horde".
                  The concept of "operational" to which department relate? Federal Law "On the Horde" many are guided.
                  Or is it troops? OBVR Defense of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, for example?

                  Do not be offended, but judging by your remarks, you are not that the Federal Law and doctrines, but departmental orders (especially in terms of interaction) did not pay much attention to your attention.
                  Well, the fact that you do not know the military component, in general, I already guessed which department you may belong to and the type of your past activity.
                  2. Even commenting is difficult for your opus. VV MVD, SOBROV, OMON, SpNov, in the aggregate, as I understand it, it was not enough for you.
                  The most paradoxical thing was that there was an abundance of manpower and resources, but the effectiveness of application and interaction, coupled with "domestic politics", is a different matter.
                  Do you remember the tasks of the Ministry of Defense and other departments at that time?
                  Or the Syrian events? There, by the way, the army is fighting against terrorists.
                  Or are you ready to name armed conflicts of varying intensity, where the army is not involved?
                  3. Yet you manifest amateurish manners.
                  It’s a pity, but maybe we could intersect in the first and second companies. Even in the Former Yugoslavia (I did not meet in Bosnia, but I was present in Kosovo, because the military peacekeeping operation was transformed into a police one). Judging by your length of service and line of business, if not kidding.
                  I know a lot of guys from the Krasnodar Territory, with whom I had to serve in different ministries and departments. And I understand your proximity to the "region."
                  Sorry if I offended you in the comments.
                  1. gudgeon
                    gudgeon 23 September 2015 17: 24 New
                    0
                    Quote: SibSlavRus
                    Only one amateur (in your words) will rely on one Federal Law "On the Horde".

                    Okay, I’ll conduct an educational program ... The operational activity is regulated precisely by the Federal Law "On the Horde". This is a fundamental regulatory legal act that defines the list of operational-search measures, the grounds and procedure for their implementation. There are simply no others. All departmental orders and instructions are issued in strict accordance with this law and should not contradict it. The concept of "operational" applies to all departments - subjects of the ARD.
                    Quote: SibSlavRus
                    Do not be offended, but judging by your remarks, you are not that the Federal Law and doctrines, but departmental orders (especially in terms of interaction) did not pay much attention to your attention.

                    I’m not offended, especially since you don’t know my orders and you can’t appreciate how familiar I am with them.
                    Quote: SibSlavRus
                    Well, you don’t know the military component

                    And did not hide, not my profile. But, with regard to the organization and holding of special events, the experience is quite large.
                    Quote: SibSlavRus
                    VV MVD, SOBROV, OMON, SpNov, in the aggregate, as I understand it, it was not enough for you.

                    No, not enough. And their effectiveness was already very different.
                    Quote: SibSlavRus
                    Yet you manifest amateurish manners.

                    No, dear. You climbed to talk about the prospects of the fight against internal terrorism from the perspective of PMCs. Despite the fact that, based on your reasoning, in the fight against terrorism, you absolutely do not understand anything.
                    Quote: SibSlavRus
                    It’s a pity, but maybe we could intersect in the first and second companies.

                    May be. By the way, “gudgeon” is not “who”, it is “where” (if you know what I'm talking about).
                    1. SibSlavRus
                      SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 17: 39 New
                      0
                      Gudgeon!
                      If there is a misunderstanding of the issue, then probably it was not presented in detail and concretization.
                      In no case did not want to add PMCs to the Horde, God be with you. It is presented as assisting intelligence and information to specialists (and, most likely, an obligation). THEY ARE ABROAD to act, incl. will come from where all the infection (along with funds) to us and rushing. Or they can multiply any infection there by zero.
                      1. gudgeon
                        gudgeon 23 September 2015 17: 54 New
                        0
                        Quote: SibSlavRus
                        Gudgeon!
                        If there is a misunderstanding of the issue, then probably it was not presented in detail and concretization.

                        That would not start the dialogue with mentoring, and it would be easier to find mutual understanding. And then: "it is a sin to offend," "a sin to offend" ...

                        Quote: SibSlavRus
                        Or they can multiply any infection there by zero.

                        They can and multiply, but maybe not. Simply, most perceive PMCs as an unpunished military instrument of foreign policy. And this is a very dangerous temptation.
              2. strannik1985
                strannik1985 23 September 2015 14: 14 New
                +1
                In fact, a respected gudgeon is right, after billions of investments in the VV, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB (so that they can really fight terrorism within the country) developing PMCs to work within the Russian Federation does not seem to be commemorative ...
                Helping the same Syria is another matter (we recall the history of interest in PMCs-West, first of all, the USA found a way to reduce the losses of the military group in Iraq and Afghanistan, shifting some of the functions to PMCs, I met information that military losses to contractors are treated as 1 to 1,9 , XNUMX respectively, while PMC losses are not taken into account in official statistics), Donbass.
                1. gudgeon
                  gudgeon 23 September 2015 14: 32 New
                  0
                  Quote: strannik1985
                  Helping the same Syria is another matter (we recall the history of interest in PMCs-West, first of all, the USA found a way to reduce the losses of the military group in Iraq and Afghanistan, shifting some of the functions to PMCs, I met information that military losses to contractors are treated as 1 to 1,9 , XNUMX respectively, while PMC losses are not taken into account in official statistics), Donbass.

                  I completely agree with this, but there is also a moral aspect. If we defend the interests of the state, then the state must defend them. I don’t think that we should be likened to the United States, which, right before our eyes, “spoils” our neighbor’s slippers, and then they say that they are not us, these are all villains — private traders. If we create Russia as a state - an alternative to the West (with their double standards, overthrowing of unwanted regimes, "muddy" operations in other countries of the same PMCs), then we should not use their methods in all of them. PMCs are very light, but very dangerous to use. Statements that with the help of PMCs Russia can secretly realize its interests in other countries are simply untenable. PMCs registered in Russia will unambiguously be associated with the state. Ultimately, the control of the activities of such a company will not be the state, but the owner - a private person. Personally, I would not want the Russian PMC to hire a banana king to overthrow a government in a neighboring country. As for peacekeeping operations, this area has long been clearly defined and worked out. PMCs in this case simply want to bite their share of the pie.
                  If you really need your own PMC, then you can register it on the Virgin Islands, determine the PPD in Brazil and use it for health, and where it gets the fighters and where the money from the contracts ultimately goes, this is already the “tenth”.
                  1. strannik1985
                    strannik1985 23 September 2015 17: 40 New
                    0
                    Let's deal.
                    If we defend the interests of the state, then the state must defend them.

                    For the people of Syria, this assistance will be from Russia as a state, as internal propaganda will explain, for Russians, I doubt that after the generally negative experience of Afghanistan, the majority of the population will support the sending of units of the Russian Armed Forces to help the ATS, contractors by definition are volunteers acting under the agreement with the government of Syria. For the West, the appearance of any appearance of Russian-speaking personnel in the B / D zone will be interpreted unambiguously, the question is in the evidence, if the PMC will act officially and within the framework of the contract, then what questions?
                    Personally, I would not want the Russian PMC to hire a banana king to overthrow a government in a neighboring country.

                    If this is a commercial business structure (MORAN-Group, RSB-Group), then of course such activity falls under the article on mercenarism, but what if it is a tool of special services? For example, the creation of Blackwater PMCs in 1997 was not a single retired fur seal by E. Prince, but a joint project of NAVSOC and the CIA Operations Department, which was transformed into the National Clandestine Service (NCS) on October 13.10.2005, XNUMX .
                    The external side has changed, but the essence has remained the same, you do not question the need for control "B" as part of the PSU of the KGB of the USSR?
                    If you really need your own PMC, then you can register it on the Virgin Islands, determine the PPD in Brazil and use it for health, and where it gets the fighters and where the money from the contracts ultimately goes, this is already the "tenth"

                    It’s possible, of course, but how will Agência Brasileira de Inteligência / ABIN react to the work of someone else’s special services on their plot?
                    1. gudgeon
                      gudgeon 23 September 2015 17: 58 New
                      0
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      It’s possible, of course, but how will Agência Brasileira de Inteligência / ABIN react to the work of someone else’s special services on their plot?

                      Brazil "from the lantern" took. Just for covert operations and the structure must be anonymized.
                      1. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 23 September 2015 18: 08 New
                        0
                        Brazil "from the lantern" took. Just for covert operations and the structure must be anonymized.

                        This is understandable, just PMCs is the depersonalization of the structure at the official level.
                        Private person, as if he did not want to present the media or the "official" statements of the US State Department.
                2. zadorin1974
                  zadorin1974 23 September 2015 16: 04 New
                  0
                  There is no other matter, not in Syria, not elsewhere. The transfer of the functions of supplying and protecting PMCs to Afghanistan and Iraq simply gave the Pentagon several advantages: the opportunity to earn several generals (kickbacks at the conclusion of contracts), to hide losses (the contractor wasn’t killed and killed), and all that. But much more problems were earned: the mercenaries scored on the orders of the Headquarters (for the military, the tribunals, the mercenaries simply won’t get any money), the mercenaries angered the local population with their lawlessness (the entire Internet is littered with videos).
            2. gudgeon
              gudgeon 23 September 2015 13: 24 New
              0
              Quote: SibSlavRus
              The whole country cannot be staked out, it will not work. But about five hundred and fifty experienced men who are not able to realize themselves to the fullest, can be provided with a completely worthy and profitable occupation.

              Yeah! Who will provide? Or take a loan from Sberbank? But what about the sale of military equipment and weapons to civilians in the country? How are things going? Even if we’ll “shake off” this question, what will we sell to private owners? Junk or modern weapons? If modern, what about secrecy? Will we introduce WRC bodies in PMCs or what?
              Quote: SibSlavRus
              A little knowledge of demography, sociology, the newest recent history of the countries of Western Europe and North America, international relations and especially statistics, as well as data from completely open sources on the forms, methods and number of organizations of existing and existing PMCs (and they have permanent composition and timelines) will help you with understanding the matter.

              I simply bow to your encyclopedic knowledge. Are you really free to operate with all of the above parameters? Especially about the knowledge of sociology
              Western Europe and North America were pleased ... But since you yourself only declare knowledge in these areas, but do not bring, then I will not mind. Nothing.
            3. gudgeon
              gudgeon 23 September 2015 15: 22 New
              +2
              Quote: SibSlavRus
              You can use PMCs anywhere and how. Glane as legally call it. The UN Charter does not violate this.


              According to UNGA Resolution 34/140 of 14.12.1979/XNUMX/XNUMX, Mercenary is “a threat to international peace and security and, like murder, piracy and genocide, is a crime against humanity everywhere”

              Yes of course! Che there ... Just think!
  7. asar
    asar 23 September 2015 09: 11 New
    -1
    Vladimir! Good all!
    But why advertise it ?!
  8. APS
    APS 23 September 2015 09: 11 New
    +6
    Private armies will protect private interests, the first thing that comes to mind is Mexico, where each new politician creates his own PMC and promises to put things in order and that’s all, we don’t need PMCs also because there will be different criteria for selecting military personnel ...
    1. Travian
      Travian 23 September 2015 09: 45 New
      +1
      as Mexico, PMCs are not needed, but we need units that do not have the status of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, but are capable of solving tasks abroad (Ukraine, Syria, etc.), PMCs are not needed inside the country — they do not make sense. PMCs can be entered by "vacationers," military personnel of the Moscow Region, the GRU, and the FSB who were "laid off" in the reserve - then the government will not have to make excuses for the green men and Buryat tankers in the Donbas. PMCs simply hired the government of the DNI / LC. Such PMCs are led by Vice-Chairmen under the control of the FSB (GRU) .But then you look at the Westerner for less desire to go to such conflicts as a safari.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. SibSlavRus
      SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 09: 48 New
      +1
      But what then do you not give as an example the French foreign legion? And the results of his work?
      In fact, this is an analogue of PMCs. True massive.
      1. Travian
        Travian 23 September 2015 09: 57 New
        +2
        the French Legion is subordinate to the French government. We do not need such a status in the Donbass
        1. SibSlavRus
          SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 10: 14 New
          0
          So we will have submission - contract + legislative. By the way, as in the Legion.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 23 September 2015 11: 22 New
        +3
        No, this is part of the French Ground Forces. Officers are exclusively French citizens who graduated from military schools. Soldiers and sergeants, although they may be recruited from foreigners, are also serving in the French Armed Forces. That is, this is a military formation with a special status. Legionnaires are military personnel, not mercenaries or PMC employees. They are entitled to pensions and other social guarantees from the French Republic.
  9. roskot
    roskot 23 September 2015 09: 12 New
    +10
    Than you need to publicize yourself. And then they would not have known about such a Nosovko. Gives birth to the law. The army was, is and will be a state structure.
  10. raid14
    raid14 23 September 2015 09: 17 New
    +5
    Does Russia need PMCs that will protect the country's economic interests in the Arctic and the Middle East?
    There is an army to protect the Arctic, in the Middle East it is much easier to conclude protection agreements with local representatives of state structures or private companies and our guys will not put their heads for the interests of business.
    1. strannik1985
      strannik1985 23 September 2015 10: 47 New
      0
      Not easier, look at the history of LUKOIL Overseas LTD. The company operates in Basra (West Qurna-2 deposit), first used the services of the British PMC (1 fst per day per person), then switched to local security, the quality of security decreased sharply. Those who come from the Middle East or Africa (especially with close family ties in power structures, militias, militants) by and large do not care about the guarded and reputation of the company, they can simply escape.
  11. tyras85
    tyras85 23 September 2015 09: 32 New
    +3
    We have enough of the Russian Armed Forces! Important, their equipment, training, supply, decent monetary maintenance.
    1. SibSlavRus
      SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 09: 56 New
      -2
      Do you have any idea the value of an army or special operation? Especially abroad? You will be the first to yell about unacceptable losses and "we did not send you there!"
      And what is a state contract with a contractor (PMC), can you imagine? What about humanitarian demining? And taxes to the budget? And versatile help from the army? And much more.

      The demand for time and the development of society is as follows.
      1. Andryukha
        Andryukha 23 September 2015 12: 16 New
        -1
        The cost of a private trader is by definition more - because taxes and profits will be laid there
      2. gudgeon
        gudgeon 23 September 2015 12: 32 New
        0
        Quote: SibSlavRus
        Do you have any idea the value of an army or special operation? Especially abroad?

        I apologize for interfering, but do you yourself at least imagine the quantitative and qualitative parameter of PMCs that will be required to conduct an army operation (especially abroad)?
        1. SibSlavRus
          SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 15: 34 New
          +1
          Imagine, dear, quite. For your information, PMCs for army operations are not sharpened (as many believe undergoing stereotypical perception of PMC abbreviations) and, as a rule, do not take part in them. The maximum is special police-type operations, instructor-methodological training, escort, security, reconnaissance, engineering and rear services, operations planning, etc. I don’t want to repeat myself, just read my comments above on the thread and the comments of people who know here.
          To participate in army operations, he hires the state through its points (the example of the United States) to the state army of citizens of different countries, including and with us (through military registration and enlistment offices). Federal Law on Military Service Remember. Including for citizenship.

          It’s too expensive, you know, to use PMC contractors in combined arms combat, an army full-fledged combat operation.
          And peacekeeping missions and humanitarian operations are just that.
          Based on the experience of the 1990s in Former Yugoslavia, Croatia and Bosnia, Kosovo, as part of the Russian contingent (Rusbats), I can say that many tasks (mine clearance, security, logistics, securing elections, etc.) can be trusted with Russian military organizations type. From rough estimates: two times cheaper and more efficient. Including equipment and aviation, quantitative composition, provision of a minimum from the battalion type.
          According to the experience of Chechen companies and Balkan peacekeeping operations then and now, one can compare: 3 million for the deaths in the database, up to 1 million for injuries + benefits, pension and other social security. During the time in the BD zone, monthly salary + camouflage and provision of all types of allowances on the spot (now). In the Former Yugoslavia in the 1990s, an RF peacekeeper received an average of $ 1150 a month, on a soldier’s post + all types of allowances + travel expenses and a salary in rubles went to Russia. NATO, of course, is 3-4 times more.
          And all these are civil servants for whom it is necessary to bear responsibility.
          PMCs are easier and cheaper in every sense.
          The main thing is that the state is not accountable to its citizens for the life of contractors.
          It is necessary to discuss this topic in a very detailed manner, therefore I recommend reading Oleg Valetsky, a former volunteer in the Yugoslav Wars, now the mine clearance contractor there. In his works, a thorough approach to the topic under discussion. As well as our compatriots from RBC groups and others.
          1. gudgeon
            gudgeon 23 September 2015 15: 58 New
            +1
            Quote: SibSlavRus
            From rough estimates: two times cheaper and more efficient. Including equipment and aviation, quantitative composition, provision of a minimum from the battalion type.

            That is, equipment and aviation are sovereign (respectively, the cost of their use), and for a private entrepreneur, who will definitely cost more daily than a military man? I don’t quite understand you, you can reveal it somehow (We don’t take death and injuries. Here I agree - the insurance company will bear the costs). As for social programs, it’s actually funny: 1600 per month, the ability to not pay the transport tax for certain categories of cars, and that’s all. The pension does not depend on participation in the database, it only counts in the length of service.
            1. SibSlavRus
              SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 17: 25 New
              0
              Consider the time, strength and means + methods, and work on the result, respectively, and not on the presence only.
              Simulate the situation yourself.
              Take for example the work of Western companies in the same Georgia or a striking example - 1995 - Serbian Krajina. Africa, at worst. I do not propose analyzing Iraq and Afghanistan; there are more of these companies than troops. I have not really figured it out yet.
              They know how to count money there.

              And by the way, here on the forum thread, many express their thoughts on the basis of effective stereotypes or imposed by negative information from Western examples, sometimes even without really examining the available information on the issue under discussion.
              Although the Russian version is something else in content and basic principles.

              Many are confused by the abbreviation and the words "private". From this and "wild" speculation.
              In fact, this is a union, commercial, but specific. Military purposes, with appropriate (small arms!) Weapons. For some reason, nothing confuses anyone in security agencies, or departmental security, such as large corporations, which, in fact, have mini armies.
              The main thing is how goals and objectives, principles and forms of activity will be spelled out.
              It is worthwhile to study in detail the Western analogues.
  12. S_Baykala
    S_Baykala 23 September 2015 09: 44 New
    +4
    Quote: insafufa
    We also lack private armies


    A plus. Private armies in their own country are the key to instability, given the breadth of our souls: each oligarch considers it fashionable to maintain his military unit.
  13. corporal
    corporal 23 September 2015 09: 53 New
    +2
    If it is prescribed in the law, what to do just outside and only in the interests of the Russian Federationthen why not?
    1. Andryukha
      Andryukha 23 September 2015 12: 19 New
      0
      those. when are they needed, they miraculously condense together with the weapons in the right place, and when the task is completed, they evaporate again with the weapons and other logistics and management?
      1. strannik1985
        strannik1985 23 September 2015 12: 26 New
        0
        That is, they work officially, under a contract or with the permission of the government of the host country. What is the problem?
  14. Engineer
    Engineer 23 September 2015 09: 53 New
    +1
    I thought that although this law was pushed through, so that our MO could send professional fighters to the Donbass, and indeed to any hot spot where it would be undesirable to send your regular army for political reasons. Apparently the security forces were scared for the cadres and for their position. After all, the same MO is more profitable to hire PMCs for various kinds of special operations and, in case of failure, do not bear any responsibility for this.
    1. SibSlavRus
      SibSlavRus 23 September 2015 10: 02 New
      0
      You have an excellent understanding of the situation, Comrade. Engineer!
      And the reasons are still logical and worthy of understanding - the mass!
    2. Andryukha
      Andryukha 23 September 2015 12: 22 New
      +1
      And what is more profitable? Not cheaper, not controlled, have the status of mercenaries.
      These companies need to defend PRIVATE interests.
      Let's just rename organized crime groups to PMCs. Is it easier to live?
  15. shelva
    shelva 23 September 2015 09: 56 New
    +4
    Quote: A-Sim
    Is it for the sake of the device of several retirees he is busy?

    He is busy for those who pay for this initiative.
  16. made13
    made13 23 September 2015 09: 58 New
    -1
    PMCs have been and will be. We know about it or not. Russian including. And the absence of laws complicates their work in Russia. And thank God. Let them work in the USA, but in the interests of Russia.
  17. gladysheff2010
    gladysheff2010 23 September 2015 10: 14 New
    +5
    I carefully read the comments and understood: how many people have so many opinions. It is incomprehensible that the draft law was pushed through: “If this time the officials pass a negative verdict, I will no longer wait for the opinion of government experts to submit the bill to the parliament in 2015 during autumn session. "Agree, it’s alarming! I would like to understand the sources of such acceleration, or does the Russian government deprive the army and retirees of their attention? The presence in one country or another of special services does not exclude the involvement of outside employees, which is happening and accepted all over the world. But PMCs are exclusively militants, persons who carry weapons, it is not known where another category can be used, but in fact they are the same military personnel. And this is not only about the Oath! A comprehensive examination and assessment of the prospects for use with a clear indication of the goals and objectives of such organizations with a mandatory reference to existing laws of the Russian Federation. Do not forget about assessing the experience of foreign countries m, especially working on the issues of social adaptation of former employees of such organizations, including options for pension and medical services, psychological rehabilitation! Too many-sided area to rush to make decisions on such an issue!
  18. ML-334
    ML-334 23 September 2015 10: 40 New
    -2
    PMCs are in demand so that there are no 200s among conscripts as well as contractors. And also for operations not related to publicity. It is necessary to legitimize mainly for their families with insurance (God forbid, of course) in connection with the loss of the breadwinner.
  19. atamankko
    atamankko 23 September 2015 10: 43 New
    0
    This is a very serious question and amateurs do not need
    solve it, even for deputies of various levels.
  20. SERGEII
    SERGEII 23 September 2015 10: 46 New
    +4
    We would still have PMCs ... and heal. There are 5000000 guards in the country. Workers are no longer practical, the country is turning into a crowd of managers, security guards, officials, police, military. They no longer even call an engineer a swear. But a bachelor is a force. Immediately you feel the power of intelligence, and even if the master then Kirdyk America immediately. At that time, only Karagandazhilstroy rented 2 square meters of housing a year. Without a pump, calmly, according to the plan. Now they will put into operation 000 - ora to all of Russia . Such are our great top managers. So where are we especially without PMCs in the Arctic?
  21. 34 region
    34 region 23 September 2015 10: 51 New
    +1
    And where is the answer to the main question? Who will finance PMCs? The UN does not count. At whose expense is the banquet?
  22. 34 region
    34 region 23 September 2015 11: 07 New
    0
    It’s still not clear. Here I drive the thoughts (settled). Mine clearance. Only a private company can? Security escort of goods. ChOPov full. Again comes the thought of payment. Who will pay? Covert operations. Well, until today they were not? And who carried out these secret operations and is now a secret. Will there now be a complete list of undercover agents? In general, all this is dreary.
  23. Wolka
    Wolka 23 September 2015 11: 34 New
    0
    even if not today, but still come to an understanding, development and adoption of this law, which requires really specific thorough study and study, because today it is no secret that, for example, Gazprom and other companies are equal in weight and strategic importance, in fact they already have their own private (departmental) armies under control, which protect production facilities, and private individuals, formally they are typical private security companies, but in fact they are already PMCs, respectively equipped with specially trained personnel, various small arms, including special purposes, and also means of communication ...
    1. Arandir
      Arandir 23 September 2015 11: 50 New
      +2
      And what is right about that? The state has the exclusive right to use force, what you list is the legacy of the dashing 90s. There are now more than 1,5 million security guards in Russia. All this mass of strong men does not sow, does not reap and does not plow, but protects someone else's good.
      Large companies must pay taxes, and the state to protect their interests.
      In addition, do not forget that these brave guys not only protect the good of their masters, but also help to grab someone else's in raider captures.
      And if the interests of the owners of PMCs come into conflict with the state, what civil war to start? Here pen.dosy will be happy.
  24. vkl-47
    vkl-47 23 September 2015 11: 37 New
    +4
    Quote: Penetrator
    Quote: vkl-47
    And to whom the PMCs will swear the oath ?? Yukos? There is CSN here it needs to be expanded

    And what, SPC will, for example, organize logistics and support of cargo columns? Or protect civilian objects? This is me specifically on the issue of the use of PMCs in zones of armed conflict outside of Russia. Anyway, what does the special forces? The tasks are completely different between well-armed guards and the elite of special services.

    PMC DOES NOT SERVE THE STATE !!! ON IT AND THE PRIVATE ARMY. IT IS NOT MONITORED AND DOES NOT SUBJECT TO THE STATE !!! MERCEDES EXECUTING AN ORDER FOR THE ABC.
  25. Arandir
    Arandir 23 September 2015 11: 41 New
    +1
    Mercenaries - dogs of war. Who pays for that and is killed. This is immoral. Russia will never do that.
  26. shadow
    shadow 23 September 2015 12: 21 New
    0
    Business, do you understand this word? This is when a lot of money. Minimum investment, maximum income. No one will guarantee that the leadership of such a company will not sell secrets to other countries at 4 expensive, receiving them from our developers. And then, wherever they take them, they will scream everywhere that Putin sent them. And the meaning of them?
    1. strannik1985
      strannik1985 23 September 2015 12: 24 New
      +1
      It is better when the foreign intelligence services will work under the guise of foreign PMCs guarding Russian specialists abroad?
  27. carabiner sks
    carabiner sks 23 September 2015 12: 31 New
    0
    I don’t understand everything - why do you need PMCs to protect Russian companies? Let agree with the MO. What is the point here to hide the state. membership of personnel? But instead of legitimizing PMCs, it might be better to adapt the Ministry of Defense to tasks that they want to assign to PMCs?
    1. strannik1985
      strannik1985 23 September 2015 13: 40 New
      +1
      Eeeee ... and with us the MoD can independently send military personnel somewhere to Iraq, Libya, Sudan? Maybe you mean the government of the Russian Federation?
    2. Cat man null
      Cat man null 23 September 2015 20: 04 New
      0
      Enchanting Arctic fox .. okay, once again and by division ..

      Quote: carbine sks
      why do you need PMCs to protect Russian companies

      Because PMC is a company that provides professional services (including protection) for the client’s money.

      Quote: carbine sks
      Let agree with the MO

      Cool. That is, "without demand" in the country where the company operates, the Russian Federation enters its troops there? To protect some company there?

      Something it reminds me already ..

      Quote: carbine sks
      And instead of legitimizing PMCs, it might be better to adapt the Ministry of Defense to tasks that they want to assign to PMCs

      "To get a barbed wire, cross the hedgehog with snake .."

      You would ask at your leisure:

      - what status and what tasks does the municipality have
      - What status and tasks does PMCs have?

      And after that they would have suggested that a thread .. well, these two things do not intersect. No way. From the word "completely."
  28. reklats34
    reklats34 23 September 2015 14: 07 New
    0
    PMCs are necessary for Russia and we will not get anywhere from this
  29. tyras85
    tyras85 23 September 2015 19: 37 New
    0
    Today it is impossible to squander the money allocated to the Armed Forces and Defense on the so-called other "projections". After a deep modernization and full assembly of the Russian Armed Forces, and this is a long process, it will be possible and necessary to invest money in real equipment of the Russian State Border! This is paramount!
  30. gammipapa
    gammipapa 23 September 2015 19: 56 New
    0
    Only one question - who pays Nosovko?
  31. carabiner sks
    carabiner sks 23 September 2015 20: 41 New
    0
    Kotu Manulu. Regarding the first point, I still don’t understand the essence of your argument. Now further.
    Quote: "Cool. That is," without demand "from the country where the company operates, the Russian Federation sends its troops there? To protect some kind of company there?"
    Well, firstly, "in demand." Secondly, there will not be a special actual difference between escorting PMCs (the same armed forces, in fact) and escort by the state VS. Is it legal, but with the proper approach, this can be solved.
    Quote: "Would you ask at your leisure:

    - what status and what tasks does the municipality have
    - What status and tasks does PMCs have?

    And after that they would have suggested that a thread .. well, these two things do not intersect. No way. From the word "absolutely." "
    So, therefore, I wrote “adapt ...” It is clear that in the current legal situation this is impossible, so you can especially not ulcerate.
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 23 September 2015 21: 12 New
      0
      Quote: carbine sks
      so especially can not ulcerate

      Ok, I answer, "without ulcer":

      Quote: Definition
      Private military company (PMC) - a commercial enterprise offering specialized services related to the protection, defense (defense) of someone or something, often with participation in military conflicts, as well as with the collection of intelligence information, strategic planning, logistics and consulting

      Your question was:

      Quote: carbine sks
      why do you need PMCs to protect Russian companies?

      Answer: precisely because they are specifically designed for this.

      Quote: carbine sks
      Well, firstly, "in demand." Secondly, there will not be a special actual difference between escorting PMCs (the same armed forces, in fact) and escort by state forces

      - “in demand” .. with the state in whose territory it is necessary to “guard”, with the UN, who else is there? And for PMCs all this is not necessary - it is a private "security" company. No more.
      - "PMCs (the same armed forces, in fact)" - no, not the same .. The Armed Forces are a state. With all the consequences.
      Private traders - they are private traders, no state stands behind them (officially, at least). They work at their own risk, it has already been mentioned a hundred times. "Maxim died - and ... with him," in particular.

      Quote: carbine sks
      That's why I wrote "adapt ..."

      Duc .. but why "pull the owl" and overload the MO with unusual tasks for him .. IMHO it is easier to resolve private companies that are strictly controlled and operate strictly outside the Russian Federation.

      Something like this..
  32. arrows
    arrows 23 September 2015 21: 11 New
    0
    In vain !!!
  33. carabiner sks
    carabiner sks 23 September 2015 21: 42 New
    0
    Quote: Cat Man Null
    Duc .. but why "pull the owl" and overload the MO with unusual tasks for him .. IMHO it is easier to resolve private companies that are strictly controlled and operate strictly outside the Russian Federation.

    And from this moment begins the endless and unresolvable, in the course of the dispute over the PMC accountability ...
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 23 September 2015 21: 49 New
      0
      Quote: carbine sks
      And from this moment begins the endless and unresolvable, in the course of the dispute over the PMC accountability ...

      - PMCs should work only outside the Russian Federation
      - PMCs should be state controlled
      - no "private armies" inside the Russian Federation the law on PMCs should not be allowed

      This is my IMHA.

      And so - yes, as the law is written, so it will be. They certainly won’t ask us. Democracy, mmm ..

      hi
  34. carabiner sks
    carabiner sks 23 September 2015 21: 57 New
    0
    Quote: Cat Man Null
    And so - yes, as the law is written, so it will be.

    Your words, yes to God in the ears ...
  35. Nehist
    Nehist 24 September 2015 00: 05 New
    0
    Wow!!! Here is a discussion! In principle, why and for what “PMCs” are needed, some people have competently and meticulously laid out on the shelves! But all the arguments against came out in one, and not the point. I have not read a single reasoned objection. The creation of PMCs ripened during the Yugoslav crisis and in these realities is even more relevant. And yet, not one PMC without state control will not be able to exist.