Range vs. Capacity




What should be the new Russian-Chinese wide-body aircraft

In the near future, a joint working group of specialists from Russia and China will submit to the governments of both countries a feasibility study on the project to create a new wide-body passenger aircraft. In China, he has already received the working designation C929. Its development on a parity basis will be engaged in the United Aircraft Building Corporation (UAC) and the company COMAC. According to the preliminary distribution plan, the composite wing and mechanization will be done by the Russian side, and the fuselage - by the Chinese. Engines and avionics for the new aircraft will initially be created by Western companies that have yet to be determined at tenders.

The new aircraft is expected to appear on the world market in 2025 and destroy the long-standing duopoly of the current leaders, Airbus and Boeing, who dominate the segment of wide-body trunk airliners. Moreover, this program has all chances to become one of the most large-scale projects of the Russian-Chinese partnership in the field of high technologies. But in order to guarantee the success of a new liner, it is necessary to accurately determine its market niche and carefully calculate its technical characteristics, first of all its capacity and range. However, it is precisely in these matters that the positions of Russian and Chinese aircraft manufacturers do not yet coincide. Now working groups are analyzing several design options at once. It should be completed with the passage of the so-called control line, when the parties choose one target option. And at the next stage, UAC and COMAC will present the basic concept of the liner, after which they will begin active consultations with the airlines. It is this collaboration that will allow to specify the key requirements for the new aircraft, including its range and capacity. So what kind of a liner will be in demand in China and in Russia? And what could be the compromise version of the aircraft so that it could press the American and European competitors on the market?

All in growth


According to Boeing’s predictions, from 2015 to 2034 a year around the world 8830 new wide-body aircraft will be sold for a total of 2,7 trillion dollars. This means that the fleet of such aircraft will grow almost 2,4 times. In this case, according to Boeing, the most popular will be small aircraft designed for 200 – 300 passengers. They will sell 4770 pieces to 1,25 trillion dollars.

Note that the current state of affairs is fundamentally different from what the Americans predict. Airbus and Boeing now have firm orders for almost all 2600 wide-body airliners. At the same time, half of them fall on liners with a capacity of 300 – 400 seats. The undisputed leaders in the number of firm orders in this segment, as well as in the entire widebody airliner market, are the Airbus A350-900 and Boeing 787-9 models (ordered by 590 and 451, respectively). In the larger-capacity segment, the Boeing 777-300ER model, which has been in use for 11 years and accommodating 365 passengers, is in high demand. There are 200 solid orders for this aircraft. To replace this liner, Boeing is currently developing the 777-8X and 777-9X models - with 350 and 406 passengers, respectively. The latter model is already moving into the segment of large aircraft, although it will be located at its lower boundary. Now there is already an 253 order. The company says that the market for 400-local aircraft is not large enough, and they began to develop the 777-9X model only to be able to compete with the Airbus A350 in terms of passenger-kilometer cost, and not because of the need of airlines in courts of such a large capacity.


Forecast of demand for new wide-bodied aircraft over the next 20 years

It should be noted one interesting fact. The most popular model in the production line of the American corporation - Boeing 787-9. This liner is able to accommodate 290 passengers. Following the classification of Boeing, it falls into the segment of small wide-bodied aircraft on 200 – 300 seats and seems to be partly confirms the correctness of the corporation’s forecast of the future demand for these aircraft. But in fact, this model is located on the upper border of this segment and is more likely to a segment of medium wide-bodied airliners. A more spacious model of the same family - the Boeing 787-10, capable of carrying 330 passengers - is also popular with airlines, although much smaller. There are only 139 solid orders for it. This means only one thing: within the Boeing 787 and Boeing 777 families, similar in dimension models “eat away” from each other customers, some of which still strive to get more capacious models. At the same time, customers of American wide-bodied aircraft both in the first and in the second case are clearly aimed at the segment of medium airliners.

The situation is similar with Airbus, with the only difference being that European models are much more clearly positioned and do not claim to be the top niche of the middle segment. The new and most spacious model in the lineup of the European company - Airbus A350-1000 - is designed for 366 passengers. A new model of the Airbus A350-900, the production of which has just begun, accommodates 325 people. As for the lower boundary of the middle segment, here the Europeans rely on the upgraded model Airbus A330-900NEO, designed for 310 passengers. Its capacity will increase on 15 seats compared to the outdated Airbus A330-300.

Thus, contrary to Boeing’s forecasts, the lion’s share of supply and demand in the wide-body aircraft market will be concentrated in the segment of medium airliners for at least the next five to six years, the lower limit of which is conditionally defined in 290 seats and the upper one in 406. This is clearly indicated by the structure of the current order book of American and European aircraft manufacturers. As for the change in supply in this market and the emergence of other new aircraft, on the horizon of the next eight to nine years they are not foreseen by either Boeing or Airbus. And in the longer term, all changes will depend on how China’s airlines behave and what actions the government of this country will take.

It all depends on China


Twenty years later, according to IATA, China will double the number of flights, overtake the USA and become the largest market for passenger air travel. By this time, every fifth passenger in the world will fly either to China, or from China, or inside China. Now only every tenth traveler makes such flights. In total, 70 thousand of so-called Chinese flights are currently performed weekly, and there will be almost 150 thousand flights. This circumstance will not only affect the supply and demand structure in the global aircraft market, it may become a determining factor in the formulation of strategies and market policies of all aircraft manufacturing companies in the world. The same Boeing predicts that the number of jet aircraft of all types operated in China will increase by more than 2,7 times over twenty years, from 2400 to about 6930 units. For this, China’s airlines will acquire a little over 6000 aircraft. Almost 1500 of them are wide-bodied aircraft. Thus, China will provide a third of all global demand for these aircraft. If we consider the entire region of the APR, then it will have more than half of the demand.

Two years ago, the PRC government lifted the ban on the creation of new airlines not affiliated with government agencies. And the other day, the authorities of this country announced their decision to invest in the development of civil aviation China 1,5 trillion yuan (232 billion dollars). These funds will be spent on infrastructure development, construction of 45 new airports and so on. The investments are designed to eliminate existing restrictions and dramatically increase the throughput of airports in the country's secondary cities, as well as support the high growth rate of passenger traffic, which now makes up about 8,4–8,8% per year in China.


Prices, orders and the main characteristics of the proposed new twin-engine wide-body aircraft for sale in a three-class layout (range with full load, unless otherwise indicated)


Research companies unanimously say that international transportation in China occupies a small share in the total volume, although they are growing faster than the market. Moreover, the share of Chinese air carriers on main routes (from China to China) is only 40%, and the Chinese government wants to increase it. But the Chinese airlines themselves do not want this. They rightly believe that competition is extremely high on international routes and that they will have to fight with foreign carriers, which does not guarantee success, but will definitely reduce profitability, and may lead to losses. It is much easier for them to earn in the domestic market, which is protected from competition with foreigners by regulatory rules. All this is directly reflected in the demand of Chinese airlines for spacious Airbus and Boeing wide-bodied airliners - it is now practically just not there. First of all, we are talking about super giants, or about large liners in the Boeing classification. This aircraft with four engines - Airbus A380 and Boeing 747-8. With a maximum load, they can fly over a distance of 15,2 thousand km and 14,1 thousand km, respectively. But the demand for them is severely limited, in the whole world it is estimated in only a few dozen pieces. Moreover, part of the already placed orders for giants with high probability can be canceled or replaced with other versions. As a result, for example, Boeing dramatically reduces the release of the Boeing 747-8 and is considering the possibility of taking it out of production.

As for China, an extremely small number of passenger Airbus A380 and Boeing 747 are operated in this country. At the same time, China’s airlines are not placing new orders for aircraft of these models at all. This is explained, on the one hand, by their unwillingness to actively develop trunk routes, and on the other, by the high cost of owning large four-engine planes and the inability to operate them effectively on relatively short internal overloaded routes.

Nevertheless, it is obvious that China will need effective high-capacity aircraft, but with two engines, in order to meet growing demand in the domestic market in the medium and long term. Certain plans to create such aircraft in the past ten years have hatched Airbus and Boeing, but the configurations in question have not been fully optimized for the Chinese market. So, in Boeing it was planned to create a roomy liner based on the Boeing 787 platform for domestic flights across Japan. The project was called the Boeing 787-3 and was designed to carry 300 passengers to a distance of 6500 km, but in 2010, it was closed due to the lack of a viable economic model. Airbus has the Airbus A330-300 Regional project, which was launched in 2013 year. But this plane is nothing but a lightweight version of the basic version of the A330-300. Modification Regional is designed to carry passengers to 400 on medium-haul routes - to 5500 km. The developers claim that carriers will be able to save due to the lower curb weight, which for this option is about 200 tons. It is noteworthy that the A330-300 Regional is being modified with an eye to the Chinese market to transport passengers from cities such as Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu and Guangzhou to the country. Nevertheless, this aircraft was never acquired by any Chinese airline, and its only customer at the moment is Saudi Arabian airline Saudi Arabian, which ordered 20 of such aircraft for domestic flights in the Middle East region.

However, it should be understood: Airbus A330-300 Regional, although suitable for operation on small and medium routes with large passenger traffic, was not specifically created for this. So, far from being fully optimized. The A330 platform itself was designed at the very beginning of 1990's and cannot be considered the optimal solution for China and other countries with a similar structure of domestic transportation. Simply put, almost all the so-called optimization is to reduce the mass of the aircraft and reduce engine power.

Thus, China's airlines in the medium term will objectively need a sufficiently large number of capacious twin-engine wide-body airliners for transportation in the domestic market. And the liberalization of the internal market of the PRC and multi-billion investments in the airport infrastructure will only strengthen it. As a result, a boom in demand for regional transportation will inevitably arise in China.

At first glance, in this situation the most logical solution for COMAC and UAC would be to create a new airliner with a capacity of 400 – 450 passengers. However, in Russia the market for such an aircraft is quite small. In our country, on regular flights, the entire 92 wide-body aircraft is currently operated, in the medium term their number may increase to a maximum of 120. At the same time, almost all of these liners are designed for medium-haul routes with small and large passenger traffic. It is almost the only possible option for using a higher-capacity aircraft in Russia - flights from Moscow and St. Petersburg to Sochi and the Crimea (during Soviet times, our wide-body IL-86, which can accommodate 350 passengers, flew on routes to Sochi). In addition, there is the possibility of operating such aircraft in the high summer season on routes from Moscow and St. Petersburg to Turkey and Egypt.


Airbus and Boeing now have firm orders for almost all 2600 wide-body airliners. At the same time, half of them fall on liners with a capacity of 300 – 400 seats

As for the global market, in the foreseeable future, a roomy aircraft for short and medium routes in addition to Saudi Arabia may be in demand only in India and Indonesia. But the total demand for such liners, even taking into account China and Russia, is unlikely to exceed 250 units.

Based on this, we can confidently predict that the aircraft optimized for the Chinese domestic market risks being even less successful than the Airbus A380, the direct costs of EU countries for which exceeded 15 billion dollars, but have not paid off. And taking into account the indirect costs, the program cost at least $ 23 billion. In total, Airbus received 317 orders for such aircraft and has released 165 so far. The total revenue from their sales, taking into account the huge discounts to start-up customers, sometimes exceeding 50% of the catalog price, can be roughly estimated at 30 billion dollars.

To find a compromise


Obviously, when developing the new COMAC and UAC aircraft, it is advisable to rely not only on serving the domestic Chinese passenger traffic and Russian tourists, but also on meeting the other needs of Russian, Chinese and other airlines from the APR countries. First of all, it means transportation to an average range. In the international classification, this distance is determined in the interval from 5600 to 11 100 km. All direct routes, which fly wide-bodied airliners of western production, which are in operation in Russia, and the overwhelming majority in China, fall here. If we talk about East Asia and America, Russian airlines fly on wide-bodied airliners mainly to China, Vietnam, Thailand, Japan, the United States and India. That is, they need to overcome the range of no more than 10 thousand. Km. For example, the distance from Moscow to Beijing is 7200 km, from Moscow to Ho Chi Minh, New York or Tokyo - 7700 km, and from Moscow to Singapore - 8500. True, we must also add an amendment to the strong headwind (up to 20%).

The considered range 10 thousand km covers all flights from China to Europe, and a very significant number of flights to the countries of the Asia-Pacific Region. For example, from Shanghai to Sydney 7900 km, from Beijing to Jakarta - 5300, and from Beijing to Tokyo, and at all 2100 km. Only flights from China to the USA, as well as to South Africa and New Zealand, do not fall into this range.

Thus, the range 10 thousand km could well be taken as a basis as a baseline for the new Russian-Chinese wide-body aircraft. But to increase it, especially significantly, there are no serious reasons. According to statistics, 95% of all flights in the world have a range of less than 13 thousand km. And almost 85% - less than 10 thousand. Km. The paradox is that all new Airbus and Boeing wide-body aircraft offered on the market are designed for a range over 10 thousand km (with the exception of the A330-300 Regional version being developed). This means that they are not optimized for specific networks of routes and, accordingly, are overweight, power, and so on. But why then do Airbus and Boeing still create liners capable of flying 13 – 15 thousand km? Americans and Europeans themselves answer this question in the following way. Firstly, because there are the very 5 – 15% of flights that require such aircraft. Secondly, because airlines often use them on other flights of their route network, and it is cheaper to maintain a uniform fleet. Thirdly, airlines often fill the lower bays of liners with additional cargoes, which automatically reduces the flight range. But in our case it is still not a reason to create a plane with redundant capabilities.


Prices, orders and basic characteristics of passenger four-engine wide-body airliners

Obviously, the UAC and COMAC cooperation program will involve the development of not a single airliner, but a whole family. His senior model will have to satisfy the demands of Chinese airlines by the criterion of range, and the youngest one - Russian ones. And vice versa, if we talk about capacity.

In other words, designers from Russia and China in the first case, most likely, will have to create a model that is somewhat less in range and capacity than the Boeing 777-300ER. And in the second case - significantly more than the Airbus A330-300.

A new level of technology, including in the production of composite wings, which Russia has mastered in preparation for the production of MC-21, will certainly allow it. As a result, the new Russian-Chinese aircraft has every chance of not becoming a copy of Airbus and Boeing, but surpassing American and European competitors. And at the same time be in demand not only in China and Russia, but also in many other countries of the Asia-Pacific region.
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  1. evfrat 20 September 2015 07: 09 New
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    Let them at least do something at last. There is faith in the Chinese. They know how to work.
    1. Falcon 20 September 2015 18: 02 New
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      Nothing new.
      What is the last conclusion based on that it can surpass competitors.
      Whom are they going to surprise the black wing? At 787, the casing is composite, not just the wing.

      There are no engines of their own and never have been. Only if GE or RR sell their own, which have long stood on the aforementioned competitors.
  2. foma2028 20 September 2015 08: 11 New
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    All this is sad.
    According to Academician Yevgeny Alexandrovich Fedosov, cited in the book "Half a Century in Aviation. Notes of the Academician," every second aircraft in the world was Soviet-made.
    The Chinese, on the other hand, are simply adopting technology, learning to later throw ours or reduce their joint share and flood the whole world with Chinese civilian and military aircraft.
    1. captain 20 September 2015 09: 07 New
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      I agree with you, sad. It’s also sad because they can chat with us, but there are no real cases. Take, for example, the story with the "Trotter", shouting, making noise and silence. But we buy Czech even in the army. The history of Ukraine taught us nothing. Our missiles Strategic Rocket Forces serviced by Ukrainian experts !!!! It is hard to imagine what would be allowed in the United States to service missiles of Russian specialists. We do not have the production of ultralight helicopters; we are purchasing abroad. Our light helicopters are very expensive, and the modernization of MI-2 failed (apparently there is little money to cut). We are glad that the Indians bought the Ka-226 (they have a very high price. Like the Ansat), and our Ministry for Emergencies buys foreign cars. I understand. when a private company buys. but government structure !! Or Gazprom, which also does not want to buy our helicopters.
    2. Rus2012 20 September 2015 09: 44 New
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      Quote: foma2028
      just adopt technology, learn, then to throw ours or reduce a joint share

      ... firstly on the "new" in quotation marks H-6K, an analogue of the Tu-16, are D-30KP-2
      Which is transferred to them for production under license.
      Secondly, intellectual property protection issues are already included in the relevant Treaties.
      Thirdly, there are also stipulated and there are concepts of consolidation, distribution and creation of centers of competence between the Russian Federation and China.
      I repeat it a thousand times, we are returning to the situation with joint five-year plans, when our and Chinese enterprises "fit" into each other's national plans. So far, at a rapid pace in the defense industry: we are ordering (for a long time) certain types of ammunition for artillery and small arms, they are some types of "old" aircraft engines, modern fighters ... next in line are sea vessels (destroyers, amphibious assault forces), in which they succeeded
      1. foma2028 20 September 2015 11: 16 New
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        Your words to God in the ears.
        But for some reason it seems to me that you can’t enter the same river twice. China is no longer what it was during the five-year period. China has become very ambitious and will not put up with the status of a younger brother. Even with equivalent partnership, China will be satisfied for a short while. He used to be behind the USSR in almost everything. Now, by some technologies, it lags behind, but by some it keeps up, and somewhere ahead of it. That’s what experts will say.
        My opinion: China will gain experience, and when they realize that they have nothing more to learn from us, then the Chinese will gradually increase, play their solo part in the civilian aircraft industry.
        Most likely I'm wrong, but looking at how the Chinese behave in other types of high-tech and not-so-business, I see no other option.
        But apparently we also have no other options. Maybe only if we could arrange assembly shops in our Central Asia, but everything is very neglected there.
        1. FID
          FID 20 September 2015 11: 53 New
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          Quote: foma2028
          My opinion: China will gain experience, and when they realize that they have nothing more to learn from us, then the Chinese will gradually increase, play their solo part in the civilian aircraft industry.
          Perhaps I’m all wrong, but looking at how the Chinese behave in other types of high-tech and not very business, I don’t see any other option

          You are not mistaken ... С919 - a classmate of our MS-21 will start flying this year ...
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. gjv
            gjv 20 September 2015 18: 18 New
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            Quote: SSI
            S919 - a classmate of our MS-21 this year will begin to fly ...

            And Rogozin is lying that four MS-21s are already under construction and his flight tests will also begin in 2015-2016?
            1. ancient 20 September 2015 19: 26 New
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              Quote: gjv
              And Rogozin is lying that four MS-21s are already under construction and his flight tests will also begin in 2015-2016?


              "I'm afraid" to anger the stubborn "Urya-patriots", but ..... in the most arrogant way wassat

              At the present time, the first one is on the “preliminary assembly” (at the stations) .. it is waiting for the “plumage” (the engines have already “arrived”).
              The second fuselage is already in "work" (will go to the "statics").
              If everything will be fine with the plumage, then they will be rolled out to the LIS in 2016.
              Here are the "news" on ... "yesterday" drinks
              1. Aleks28 26 September 2015 19: 37 New
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                Quote: ancient
                At the present time, the first one is on the “preliminary assembly” (at the stations) .. it is waiting for the “plumage” (the engines have already “arrived”).
                The second fuselage is already in "work" (will go to the "statics").
                If everything will be fine with the plumage, then they will be rolled out to the LIS in 2016.

                Again he set it? belay Here’s a braggart !!! In real life, even a lousy cat turns away, so at least there is a man to build himself out of himself .... How did virgin soil in Sevastopol collect milk from all fields? wink
              2. Aleks28 26 September 2015 19: 41 New
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                Quote: ancient
                "I'm afraid" to anger the stubborn "Urya-patriots", but ..... in the most arrogant way

                There is no limit to your arrogance, so don’t be shy .. Dare ... so to speak, there can be ones who will applaud ... laughing
        2. Rus2012 20 September 2015 14: 00 New
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          Quote: foma2028
          China is no longer what it was during the five-year period. China has become very ambitious and will not put up with the status of a younger brother. Even with equivalent partnership, China will be satisfied for a short while.

          ... he’s not even a “little brother”, but a flying dragon! In their ideology, we are the “elder sister” of our family. So say experts in the Chinese mentality ... bully

          At the same time (the Chinese, like the Japanese, by the way) are virtuosos in copying and scaling production. Those. - we don’t feed with bread, let me show, further they will master and improve.
          But with pioneering ideas and technologies they have no way (like with space, atom ... etc.) ...
          Therefore, it is proposed to cooperate - we are ideas, prototypes. Next up is their "21 Century Factory" - and mass production. What is our problem ...
          It remains to strictly agree on innovations in fundamental science at the expense of the overflow of profits from widespread production and sales.
          Only during this time a new make-pile is required ...
  3. Zaurbek 20 September 2015 09: 35 New
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    Not everything was smooth with Ansat - a damp machine. And the price depends on the series, they will start production in India and our country will receive a production car at normal prices. They began to solve the issue of replacing French engines with Russian ones. And you need to equal the reference cars in the class. And to launch assembly production of foreign cars, too. Our plants will not relax and technology will be adopted.
    1. foma2028 20 September 2015 11: 22 New
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      It seems to me in no case to start assembly production of foreign cars. Everything that has not died will die. We must buy a license for the production of machines in general, of units and assemblies with which we have problems.
  4. RuslanNN 20 September 2015 09: 39 New
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    I am interested in one thing. Recently there was an article about IL-86 / 96. Medium-haul wide-body fuselage airplanes, it was said that such an airplane turned out to be unclaimed, but here about the Airbus and Boeing it’s completely different. I think Ilya was specially ruined, the competitor was removed. Why reinvent the wheel, will unite with the Chinese, who will still copy everything and will actively sell at dumping prices, when it is possible to upgrade avionics, file engines and release it.
    1. Rus2012 20 September 2015 10: 25 New
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      Quote: RuslanNN
      I think Ilya was specially ruined, the competitor was removed. Why reinvent the wheel, will unite with the Chinese, who will still copy everything and will actively sell at dumping prices, when it is possible to upgrade avionics, file engines and release it.


      As for the "ruined competitor" - there wasn’t much to destroy either, we ourselves did nothing over 10 years. They listened to "young reformers and effective managers" who, from the lips of the "elder brother from behind a puddle," were broadcasting.
      There was a sensible idea to consolidate with the Germans and make a long-haul, but even here, in the light of their sovereignty, we see that they are “under the heel and hedgehogs”.

      Making past models yourself is not so easy, we are looking at the resumption of the Tu-160.

      Therefore, only with the allies, competently and intelligently distributing the roles. Otherwise, "one who only teaches to carry water - until the end of the century he will be engaged in it" (c) ...
      We must work with the Chinese seriously and carefully. You can not trust the "boys, albeit supergens and seven-spans on the forehead," the conduct, and most importantly the signing of contracts. The last word and the main arguments should be for respectable and experienced people, such as Shoigu (gray-haired in age, which means wise, and, moreover, Genghisid, which is closer to them in spirit). The only way!

      They write - the wings - to us, the fuselage - to them, avionics and move - in the west. But this is a well-established option - a little that the west cuts off this option. Therefore, and avionics and move - have to do it yourself ...
    2. Arikkhab 21 September 2015 17: 43 New
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      eg:
      http://www.ato.ru/content/sravnenie-ekspluatacionnoy-ekonomiki-il-96-300-i-boein
      g-767-300-na-opyte-aeroflota
  5. Whowhy 20 September 2015 10: 33 New
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    Airships have to do! D-ri-toad! fellow
    1. yuriy55 20 September 2015 10: 46 New
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      Correctly. For complete happiness, we lack the Conduct!
      To buy up "fanboys", set up "DirizhaBlev" and fly away to the "damn mother" until the cocks crowed ...
      wassat fellow
    2. foma2028 20 September 2015 11: 28 New
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      EKIP - that’s what we would need more a blimp
      1. Vadim237 20 September 2015 12: 40 New
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        They don’t deal with the project because the ECIP did not confirm the initially declared characteristics - the guys gave out what they wish for valid.
        1. foma2028 20 September 2015 12: 49 New
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          sorry, but with what a jamb with engines or something else
          1. Throw 20 September 2015 15: 37 New
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            Cant in the DNA.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. gjv
          gjv 20 September 2015 18: 25 New
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          Quote: Vadim237
          guys gave wishful thinking.

          Quote: Lance
          Cant in DNA

          But the Chinese are doing it.

          The Chinese television channel CCTV-13 in a news report on the work of the Premier of the State Council of the People's Republic of China Li Keqiang showed it when visiting one of the industrial enterprises with a model of a strange and previously unknown aircraft. From materials that appeared earlier in the Chinese media, as well as on official websites and exhibitions, it is known that in China work is underway on vertical take-off and landing aircraft, as well as on various types of rotorcraft and convertiplanes. At the same time, as far as one can judge, all these projects are at an early stage. The demonstration on TV of the second most important Chinese leader with a similar model in his hands may indicate the growing political significance of such projects.
  6. yuriy55 20 September 2015 10: 38 New
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    Sometimes you need a sobering soul from the euphoria. The article is very similar in meaning to such a shower.

    Boeing delivered over 700 aircraft in a year, Airbus more than 600. The results of the Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer, which gave birth to 92 aircraft, are more modest.

    http://www.proza.ru/2015/01/16/589

    An interesting position in the global aircraft industry. Beginners have a very thorny path. It is not necessary to count on any success in the next 8-10 years. If only the task is to provide domestic airlines with their own aircraft for flights on domestic routes. Because such aircraft may not be allowed on international lines for a number of reasons, including due to a discrepancy with any technical standards.

    The use of foreign (equipment, vehicles, etc., etc.) by leading commodity companies and others, keeping afloat is especially noticeable from here:

    http://www.aif.ru/dontknows/infographics/1468913

    Foreign exchange costs and their application are clear ...

    Indeed, the feeling of sadness does not leave ... recourse
  7. samoletil18 20 September 2015 13: 38 New
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    I don’t know what is there on Chinese flights, whether planes are empty there or not. But with us, I flew more than once on an empty combined flight with the Transaero UAL, for example, where there are about fifteen people in the passenger compartment on a Boeing 737. Although, on that trip there on the Tu-204 "Red Wings": a ticket for 1500r is cheaper and a havchik is simpler, and the plane was jam-packed. There are questions on MS-21, and there is something more to do with the wide-body with China, except politicians?
    Well, perhaps by composite wings to reduce the cost due to Chinese orders, and design engineers to drive the design school and revive the design school.
  8. Yarhann 20 September 2015 13: 58 New
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    cooperation with China is the only real way to return to the market for passenger wide-body aircraft - this is well understood both in our country and in China - I think we will mostly have R&D and development of technical documentation for the operation of the aircraft and it is most likely possible to produce engines and assemble the aircraft and the Chinese will produce the airframe - they will be able to provide large volumes of output. There will be enough work for all of us and the Chinese - the thing is different in how to squeeze the airbus and Boeing from this market, this is the most difficult thing - and the market is really promising and very large.
    if someone thinks that the Chinese will get the documentation and rivet the planes themselves - well, well - they still haven’t created anything sensible in rocket science or in the aircraft industry - do not forget to rule not only money - but the science school in China is in its infancy they know how to copy but they don’t know how to create new promising products - I don’t know what they can learn from cooperation with our people - but the fact that for our aviation industry this is the only real chance to reach a new level is a fact - even if we don’t even collect these planes ourselves ours there will be avionics landing gear engines and control software for this aircraft, but this will already be enough to load thousands of highly skilled workers. And yes, the main problem is that we ourselves will not be able to master this project as for me it’s just personnel - = well, there’s nowhere we can take so many different specialists from different directions to create such an aircraft and produce it ourselves - while it still needs to be sold somewhere and our domestic market in no way will pay back the costs of research and development and the deployment of production.
  9. rosarioagro 20 September 2015 14: 23 New
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    "... The engines and avionics for the new aircraft will initially be created by Western companies that have yet to be determined at tenders."

    Such a Russian-Chinese plane :-) the decaying west was instructed to do the rest - to fly :-)
  10. Danafxnumx 20 September 2015 15: 24 New
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    some strange data in the article, it is at least not accurate ...
    to start with the fact that the layout of the seats and their number are determined by the AK, and not the manufacturer ...
    for example, on Aeroflot ships of B-777 seats 402 pcs (see the AFL website) ... although, the article says that B-777-900 with 406 seats are only in development ...
    what else is not exactly in the article?
  11. 16112014nk 20 September 2015 18: 46 New
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    The remaining aircraft factories and the design bureau are still trying to do something, but the Medvedev pr-in liberalists have put an end to them for a long time. Words about revival are just words, in fact, for a long time everything was turned over to bobiks and watermelons, of course not for that. And for the nth amount in currency to the manturo, shuvalov, dvorkovich.
  12. IAlex 21 September 2015 12: 55 New
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    When the state climbs to produce equipment for the civilian market, and not just creates favorable conditions in the right direction, it turns out that the situation is like with An-70 ... 80% that the project will fail, and the Chinese themselves will bring it. What was the point of creating interstate crap if you could buy some kind of aircraft manufacturing plant in China, and for the allocated assistance by the Chinese government on the basis of your aircraft to create the one you need in China, capturing their market with the help of their own government ... In general, the business is understandable, under the plausible pretext of "optimal development of the aviation industry, the capture of new markets, the use of new technologies," grandmothers are simply sawing ...
  13. Arikkhab 21 September 2015 17: 35 New
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    I wonder why the author believes that competitors will sit and wait for the Russian-Chinese aircraft to fill the market? or is Airbus or Boeing less likely to build an aircraft "less than the Boeing 777-300ER, but more than the Airbus A330-300"?