Military Review

War of Monuments. Orthodox Front: Passions in the Sea Cathedral (part 2)

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By tradition, I’ll start by reviewing the comments for the first part. Thanks in advance to my readers who supported the material. Also I thank those who left ambiguous comments or completely negative ones. They are the most significant ones to describe the fruits of the activities of certain circles in discrediting the church. Especially since almost all such attacks are historically untenable.

Myth number XXUMX. Betrayal of the ROC pastors during the Great Patriotic War

The funniest thing is that this historical the horror story is exaggerated in a specific part of our media along with the network cry "Stalin ate children." Moreover, the citizen, who posted this horror story, decided for convincing reasons to back up this nonsense with photos that contradict him. Because the figures depict the figures (attention!) Of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, which has nothing to do with the Russian Orthodox Church. The Uniates were on the side of the Nazis and even helped in the formation of punitive battalions.


Photos of Uniates and Nazi invaders

Does this mean that there were no traitors among the priests of the Russian Orthodox Church? No, it does not. This indicates a rather deep penetration of views lobbied by the opposition, based on historical hoaxes and using total illiteracy and high self-esteem of the philistine in historical and religious matters.

About the traitors among the ranks of the ROC for the first time spoke (again attention!) Patriarchal Locum tenens Sergius back in the year 1941:
“There are rumors that I don’t want to believe that there are faces among our Orthodox pastors who are ready to go into service to the enemies of our Motherland and the Church — instead of a holy cross dawn on a pagan swastika. I do not want to believe this, but if, in spite of everything, such shepherds were found, I will remind them that, besides the word of exhortation, the Holy One of our Church was given by the Lord and a spiritual sword punishing those who violate the oath. In the name of this God-given authority, I, as a bishop who has the power to knit and decide, call for repentance of all who have been shaken because of fear, or for other reasons, and those who do not want to repent, declare forbidden to the clergy to the court ... ”

This is a twist, as they say. Thus, the official position of the ROC is crystal clear, and, therefore, negates all attempts to attribute the ROC connection with the Nazis, as any pastors who entered into allied relations with the invaders, automatically went beyond the Church and no longer had anything to do with Orthodoxy . And, if you do not shout "Vlasov" at the mention of the Red Army, but proudly say "Great Victory", then also be consistent at the mention of the Russian Orthodox Church.

Myth number XXUMX. Orthodoxy and the Church are different things

In fact, this illiterate and tenacious nonsense is nothing but tracing from the well-known market-network delusions that “the people won the war, not Zhukov” (read Stalin, Malinovsky, Chuikov, etc.). I do not argue, it sounds elegant, flirting with the vanity of the average man in the street. Of course, such subtleties as the organization of defense, support services, organization of the rear, communications, front control, etc., of the last few things of this nonsense are not at all interesting. They need slogans, short and extremely stupid, digestible for the crowd. Of course, if you are so finely organized that you take it on faith that the crowd of areal racers can fight corruption, the cook can rule the state, and the Orthodox faith live without theologians and pastors, then I will not take your time. But if the world of life slightly obscended your children's illusions, then you understand that the crowd is inert, and the average person is busy with work, home, shopping, and other things. And without a strong leader, an organizer, a carrier of an idea and a symbol, no movement lives.

Myth number XXUMX. The law on the protection of the feelings of believers violates the rights of atheists

First, modern atheism takes on some kind of militant forms that will not add security to the already complex religious and ethnic picture of modern times. In addition, the frenzy with which modern network atheists prove to God that it is not there is frightening by its downright religious fanaticism. And any fanatic, whether he is an atheist, a Christian or a Muslim, a priori suffers from educational nihilism, if not terribly shallow, both in historical and in purely social matters.

But let us omit this lyrical digression and return to our sheep. So, the law, in fact, is aimed at regulating relations in society. And first of all, oddly enough, it protects atheists, for it controls the actions of believers in the event of harm. In case the state withdraws, someone will take power into their own hands. And to explain that a more cruel judgment than a judgment on the basis of religious or national feelings, mankind did not know yet, it was not worth it.

From myths - to business

In fact, these are just trivia games. Small steps on the road to the Maidan and mutual hatred. But the action on Lakhtinskaya - their life in action. But Lakhtinskaya wore a packaging, so to speak, avant-garde character. Much more frightening metastases, populists fired in the province.

At the end of last week, work began on the construction of the Naval Nikolsky Cathedral in Novorossiysk, at which they also plan to open a seminary. It seems to be not a nightclub building and not a nuclear power plant, and even more so not a nuclear test site. But the church suddenly faced resistance from the local population. At least, so pompously told about this “Our newspaper. Novorossiysk ":" Citizens against ". Personally, the author of this material didn’t see these citizens in his eyes, since the newspaper itself only provides information about a certain “petition” that was signed by the 1300 man.

What angered the "citizens"? The construction site, for the construction site allegedly invades the territory of the memorial complex "Little Earth" and insults their patriotic feelings. Since your humble servant is not a staff correspondent of such a respected publication, he is forced to confirm every word with facts.



This screenshot shows the territory on which construction work is carried out, as well as the territory of the memorial complex "Malaya Zemlya" and the museum of military equipment. Do not medieval prejudices obscure my eyes? For some reason I do not see the violation of the borders of the memorial complex, because The construction site and the memorial area are divided by a road, the only access road to the beach (naturally being a fire entrance), on which stalls, several cafes, a dolphinarium, and a rescue station are located.


Cars rush to the construction site, however, a memorial is in the back. How is that?

But here the fun begins. When this aspect was popularly explained by the invisible “indignant”, the network surfaced, like everything that does not sink, the thesis that the cathedral will not fit into the architectural ensemble and will prevail over the terrain. As they say, by hook or by crook. True, after the verb “dovlet” there were added even more questions already from the supernatural plane. My vivid imagination has already painted a picture of the unfortunate "citizens", convulsing at the sight of the cross, and between them are priests with holy water hydrants.


Skateboarding platform, butted against the border of the memorial complex.

But, oddly enough, the skateboarding site (after the fire painted in a poor dirty green color) fit perfectly into the memorial complex as a lifetime monument to youth sports.


In the background are the buildings of multi-storey buildings, which are getting closer and closer to the memorial

The thin aesthetic feelings of the activists and the freshly built high-rise building, which delights the eye with the grace of square shapes, corners and concrete floors, did not prevent it at all. At least, she apparently does not "dominate."


In the background of the foundation stone of the future church, the skeleton of the concert hall

Of particular spice to the memorial complex, of course, gave the neighborhood with the summer concert hall, which most of the time adorned with a rusty metal skeleton.



It is not surprising that none of the brave activists raised the question of the immoral joys of the bathing season directly on the territory of the memorial itself. And from the guests of the city and the townspeople, apparently, swallowing up patriotism here, had to save the memorial with metal bars, which, alas, did not help.

All this shows that metastases successfully develop, so to speak about the tumor. And these metastases have nothing to do with religious disputes about the existence of God or the church. Their task is to sow the wind for a famous crop. And this particular case is by no means any kind of action there, but a natural reaction to the introduced trend. Of course, most fans of this hateful trend do not think about the consequences, they assert themselves, albeit with marked cards. Follow in the footsteps of one of the idols of the network, the failed opposition leader, designer, blogger, in short, the man-orchestra - Artemy Lebedev: "In Russia there is only one cult worse than Orthodoxy - the cult of Victory Day."
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  1. yuriy55
    yuriy55 19 September 2015 05: 00 New
    +1
    "In Russia there is only one cult worse than Orthodoxy - the cult of Victory Day."


    ??
    We have enough different figures trying to sow doubts about the truth of our spiritual values!

    Regarding Faith and the Church. There are apostates ... yes
    1. siberalt
      siberalt 19 September 2015 09: 14 New
      +6
      It is strange about the debate about the existence of the church. She is everywhere who would doubt it. However, adherents of the church can be counted by the number of parishioners. I'm afraid that they will not be the vast majority. But at the same time, the atheist necessarily seems militant. Well, where do we see crowds with posters - down with the church and the priests? Well, there they are, separated so separated. Moreover, the Gnostics have appeared, those who are yours and ours. This is a way of positioning tolerance. If the church is a self-sufficient community, then why should those who are not deceased should pay utility bills for them, and the state should not receive income taxes? Or people don’t see in what luxurious cars with tuples church officials drive around? So the question arises - who is more against the faith, atheists or its individual fat servants? But here it is as if to separate flies from cutlets.
    2. Slobber
      Slobber 19 September 2015 09: 19 New
      +4
      cult is worse than Orthodoxy - Victory Day cult

      It is understood that parody of the Orthodox faith is bad, just as sometimes some are wrapped in ribbons to the top of the head, devoured by alcohol, and the banal will not give way to the veteran.
      1. MrK
        MrK 19 September 2015 16: 07 New
        +2
        I agree with the slop. I will supplement it.
        Orthodoxy, which has passed centuries and millennia, through fire and water, through blood and tears, and, as having withstood those cruel ordeals of time, can and should be a true religion. For this is an indissoluble union of the love of a simple person with God: “He who has my commandments and keeps them, he loves Me” (John: 14, 21). But, at the same time, to be a believer or an atheist is normal.
        The main thing is to maintain critical thinking and not be a fanatic, screaming "repent" or "there is no god, because I do not believe." God is not in heaven, not in the church, not in the Bible - he is in each of us and around us. Absolute virtue is unattainable, as is absolute evil. Sin is the extremes into which we fall. But each person must comprehend God MYSELF, without the help of millionaire priests. Only then will faith in God be true.
        Belief in God is a purely personal matter of man. And neither one nor the other can be forbidden.

        And not only personal, but, I would say, intimate.
        and walk down the street and yell: I believe in God, this is the same as walking along a street with an unbuttoned fly, from which you yourself stick out, you know what.
        1. Penzuck
          Penzuck 21 September 2015 11: 21 New
          -1
          Quote: mrark
          “He who has my commandments and keeps them, loves Me” (John: 14, 21). But, at the same time, to be a believer or an atheist is normal.

          The second phrase is not only contrary to the first, but also contradictory within itself. laughing
          Quote: mrark
          God is not in heaven (1), not in church (2), not in the Bible (3) - he is in each of US (4) and around US (5).

          Is it logical to justify this? Where is the connection?
          Quote: mrark
          Absolute virtue is unattainable, as is absolute evil.

          There is no absolute evil and cannot be, because there is no evil.
          Quote: mrark
          Sin is the extremes into which we fall.

          Frets, the sin of murder is an extreme? from what? You either killed or not killed. Didn’t kill - also an extreme? And what is the middle?
          Quote: mrark
          without the help of millionaire priests

          Well, your hatred of "priests" is limitless and well-known, here you need to write "IMHO".
          Quote: mrark
          Only then will faith in God be true.
          Justify.
          Quote: mrark
          And neither one nor the other can be forbidden.
          Have you been banned?
          Quote: mrark
          from which sticks out you know what.
          - in a word Underwear there is nothing reprehensible. And where did you get the idea that there is something reprehensible in walking with an unbuttoned fly? Why should something stick out?
  2. Ermak
    Ermak 19 September 2015 05: 22 New
    +6
    The Tower of Babel, I think was figurative. Many now consider themselves to be above all and even God. And they impose their opinions. But the brothel (officially, of course, they are not, but unofficially Thai massage, eco club, etc.) in the center it does not dominate. I enjoy the church and the cadet school nearby than Thai massage and the shawarma nearby.
    1. Buffalo
      Buffalo 19 September 2015 16: 06 New
      +2
      So, those who oppose Faith and the Church, in the worst case, they are visitors to houses of tolerance (- God’s not afraid!), And in the worst, they are owners, banders, etc.
  3. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 19 September 2015 05: 36 New
    0
    As a rule, a religious article is kept on the site for a couple of hours and is deleted due to serious passions. It is not worth publishing articles on the VO mentioning the Russian Orthodox Church, otherwise half of the visitors will pick up minuses and bans, and the second will get a mental disorder. lol Moreover, the rights of believers are protected (they have feelings), and the rights of agnostics and atheists are not even considered, because unbelievers have no feelings, no souls, and in general they are not people! it's crazy! fellow(I didn’t have time to write how “minusers” are already knocking on doors and windows ... wassat laughing and without any arguments)
    1. EvgNik
      EvgNik 19 September 2015 05: 51 New
      +2
      Quote: Andrew Y.
      the rights of agnostics and atheists are not even considered, because unbelievers have no feelings, no souls, and in general they are not people! it's crazy!

      I agree. spoke out a couple of times on this subject - they did not miss it. Our moderators are apparently very faithful, but I am an agnostic and I have the right to have an opinion about the church. Although, of course, it is better to build a church than a brothel or some kind of golf club. In the days of EBN, it was against tennis - not ours. Ours is skiing, I always watch. Tennis - no.
      1. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 19 September 2015 06: 38 New
        +9
        as a rule, a religious article, holds ...

        We must not forget that the composition of Russia is not only multinational and multiconfessional, but at the same time more than 80% Russian and Orthodox, where Russians and Orthodoxy are state-forming, which, by the way, in world practice, when more than 2/3 of the population of one nation and faith is a sign of a mono-ethnic state.
        Mono-National State - (Mono-National State) Such countries are considered to be uninational, in which a relatively small number of people of different nationalities live, who do not have a noticeable effect on the national language situation in ... ...
        Dictionary of Sociolinguistic Terms
        http://sociolinguistics.academic.ru/389/

        Believing you are Orthodox, or only referring to a common Orthodox culture and not believing in God, it does not change the essence.
        Russia stands on Orthodoxy, and Orthodox culture is objectively state-forming.
        Not to take this into account and turn a blind eye to this fact, not to publish articles on the state-forming role of the Orthodox Church in favor of rotten tolerance, means undermining one of the pillars of the present without ideological Russia.
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 19 September 2015 06: 51 New
          +2
          Quote: vladimirZ
          Orthodox culture is objectively state-forming.

          pretty verbiage ... stopit is not religion that the state forms, but the people living in it, and building this state! in the USSR, the church was separated from the state, did not climb into all affairs, and without its blessing a mighty country was built, the remnants of which did not allow to roam in the land and the defense industry, and energy, and much more.
          1. vladimirZ
            vladimirZ 19 September 2015 07: 45 New
            +3
            verbiage is enough ... stop not a religion the state forms, but the people living in it, and building this state! in the USSR, the church was ...
            - Andrey Yuryevich (2)

            smile smile smile , was, and as the situation pressed, so the smartest person I.V. Stalin, the Leader and Head of the USSR, addressed the people: “Brothers and sisters, ...”, restored relations between the state and the church, contributed to the revival of the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church (1943)
            Therefore, do not la la, whether we like it or not, Orthodoxy has played, is and will play a significant role in Russia, as long as Russia is.
            Moreover, the connecting role is the rallying of the Russian people and all other small (though for the sake of tolerance they say that there are no small peoples) peoples of Russia in one state, in one Russian Orthodox culture, with the addition of a color palette of different small nations and beliefs.
            But it will not be otherwise, otherwise it will fall apart, everything will fly apart, with wars and blood for millions.
            1. Andrey Yuryevich
              Andrey Yuryevich 19 September 2015 07: 52 New
              -1
              Quote: vladimirZ
              whether we want it or not, Orthodoxy has played, is playing and will play ...

              who have little of their mind, turns to a virtual friend ...
              But it will not be otherwise, otherwise it will fall apart, everything will fly apart, with wars and blood for millions.
              stupidly estimate how many people were killed by religion around the world ... you can start from the Middle Ages, the figure will be more beautiful.
              1. vladimirZ
                vladimirZ 19 September 2015 08: 10 New
                -1
                ... stupidly estimate how many people were killed by religion around the world ... you can start from the Middle Ages, the figure will be more beautiful.
                - Andrey Yuryevich (2)

                You seem to know the story poorly, or perceive it one-sidedly.
                Religion and the church have been accompanying people for thousands of years, bringing to the souls of people not only faith in God, but also calls for peace and tranquility: "Do not kill, do not steal, love your neighbor, ...".
                And you say, “how many people were killed by religion around the world,” but how many conflicts did it stop, how many lives did you save? Have you tried to count?
                1. MrK
                  MrK 19 September 2015 16: 34 New
                  -3
                  Quote: vladimirZ
                  Religion and the church have been accompanying people for thousands of years, bringing to the souls of people not only faith in God, but also calls for peace and tranquility: "Do not kill, do not steal, love your neighbor, ...".

                  yeah, when they drink, so immediately to calm. What were they still calling for?
                  When the Great Patriotic War was already on, the princes of the Church Abroad loudly blessed the "liberating" weapons of Hitler himself! Read this document.

                  Gratitude Address of Metropolitan Anastasia A. Hitler.
                  July 12 1941
                  “Your Excellency! Honorable Mr. Reich Chancellor!
                  After the granting of the rights of a legal entity to our Holy Church, our thought turns with sincere and heartfelt gratitude, first of all, to you, as the real creator of a new people's state ... In addition to the prayers that are constantly offered to the head of state and your holy army, we have at the end of each Divine Liturgy, the following prayer is also pronounced: "Lord, sanctify those who love the splendor of your house, you glorify them with your divine power."
                  Today we feel especially deeply that you are included in this prayer. Prayers for you will be offered not only within Germany, but also in all Orthodox churches. For it’s not only the German people who commemorate you with passionate love and devotion to the Throne of the Most High: the best people of all nations, who want peace and justice, see you as a leader in the world struggle for peace and truth ...
                  We know from reliable sources that a believing Russian people, moaning under the yoke of slavery and waiting for its deliverer, constantly offers prayers to God that He will save you, guide you and give you his all-powerful help. Your feat for the German people and the greatness of the German Empire has made you an example worthy of imitation and an example of how to love your people and your homeland, how to stand for your national treasures and eternal values. For even these latter find their sanctification and perpetuation in our Church ...
                  May Heavenly Lord send His blessing to the work of your state building, to the creation of your new people's empire. May God strengthen you and your army in the fight against hostile forces that want the death of our people. May He give you, your country, your Government and the army health, prosperity and in all good haste for many years ”
                  [Journal "Church Life". 1941. No. 5.].
                  Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad
                  Metropolitan Anastasius
                  1. Eastern wind
                    19 September 2015 17: 59 New
                    +1
                    Dear, why lie? Metropolitan Anastassy has nothing to do with the Russian Orthodox Church!
                  2. Penzuck
                    Penzuck 21 September 2015 12: 11 New
                    +1
                    Quote: East Wind
                    Dear, why lie? Metropolitan Anastassy has nothing to do with the Russian Orthodox Church!

                    In support I will say the following.
                    1. ROC (W) - fled from the RSFSR
                    2. Church authorities inside the USSR called on priests who spoke for the invaders to repent otherwise excommunication ... "document" is not an argument.
                    Those. priests who were not afraid of persecution called to fight for Russia, and those that fled with their tails behind - yes, God be their judge. They ceased to relate to Russian Orthodoxy.
              2. Armax
                Armax 19 September 2015 10: 07 New
                +4
                Quote: Andrew Y.
                stupidly estimate how many people were killed by religion in the world ...

                It should not be generalized, the concept of religion is very extensive and includes, among other things, cults with negative spirituality. They destroyed the traditional way of Western European civilization, replaced the true values ​​with false ones, which we are witnessing now.
                As long as we hold on to our traditions (and our traditions, whether or not you are founded by Orthodoxy), Russia will be, and if we are instilled with European values, we look at the West.

                Quote: Andrew Y.
                ... you can start from the Middle Ages, the figure will be more beautiful.

                As for the Middle Ages, the Russian Orthodox Church has nothing to do with the Inquisition, the Crusades, the conquest of America and other bloody activities of Catholicism.
                If the Russians (read Orthodox) came to foreign lands, they didn’t oppress local believers or impose their faith anywhere.
                On the contrary, they tried to establish mutual respect for their own and local traditions.
                What we should all remember.
              3. navigator
                navigator 19 September 2015 15: 58 New
                +3
                "stupidly estimate"

                And that’s all, after such an introduction, you can’t continue. One thing, there will be a stupid pretense.
              4. navigator
                navigator 21 September 2015 00: 13 New
                +1
                "to whom it is not enough of his mind, he turns to a virtual friend ..."

                Whoever has no mind at all, stupidly estimates and twists a finger at the temple.
              5. The comment was deleted.
            2. Uncle Joe
              Uncle Joe 19 September 2015 16: 22 New
              +2
              Quote: vladimirZ
              and as the situation pressed, so the cleverest person I.V. Stalin, the Leader and Head of the USSR, addressed the people: “Brothers and sisters, ...”, restored relations between the state and the church, contributed to the revival of the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church (1943)
              1 Stalin was never the head of the USSR.

              2 The appeal of “brothers and sisters” is not religious - “Russian with Chinese brothers forever,” etc.

              3 Stalin did not restore any relations with the church: article 124 of the constitution guaranteed freedom of conscience, separation of the church from the state and school, and article 126 the right to unite in public organizations, of which the church is.
              As a result, the state did not interfere with the actions of the church carried out within the framework of the law, but no more than that, and all the initiatives of contacts between the church and the state came from the church - including the restoration of the patriarchate (and not the synod) in 43rd, which just didn't get in the way.

              4 When the “situation pressed”, the USSR leadership resolved this situation, while the church with the patriarchate went ahead in the 43rd — when the Germans were already driven by a filthy broom.

              5 In the so-called "Stalin period" the Bible was not reprinted even once - neither before, nor during, nor after the Second World War.

              Therefore do not la la
            3. MrK
              MrK 19 September 2015 16: 28 New
              +2
              Quote: vladimirZ
              Moreover, the connecting role, the rallying of the Russian people and all other small (though not for the sake of tolerance they say that small peoples do not exist) peoples of Russia in one state, in one Russian Orthodox culture,

              yeah, especially the binder.
              I will explain by example.
              In the nineties, Russia knelt, and in the "zero" - it bruised her forehead in bows. The slogan: “Freedom, equality, fraternity!” Was replaced by “Freedom from equality and fraternity” and “Repent! Repent! Repent! ”
              ROC hierarchs require repentance:
              - because our great-grandfathers were tired of being slaves and participated in the revolution;
              - for a won civil war;
              - for the royal martyr, whom contemporaries called the Bloody.
              And even the suffering that fell on the lot of the Soviet people during the Great Patriotic War, Patriarch Kirill declared Punishment of God “for the terrible sin of the apostasy of the whole people, for trampling sacred objects, for sacrilege and mockery of the church”.

              In fact, we have before us the assertion that Hitler, who attacked the godless Soviet Union, was an instrument of just retribution in the hands of the Lord. A very controversial, if not to say, scandalous statement. How will the veterans of the Great Patriotic War react to the statement that they fought against the instrument of Divine justice and defeated it?
              1. derik1970
                derik1970 21 September 2015 07: 42 New
                +1
                No need to turn everything upside down. Do you think that those who poured the blood of innocent citizens into the civil war were right, the Bolsheviks in power were right? when they carried out executions, torture, etc. For all the bad things in this life, you have to answer whether you want it or not, or repent before God for what you have done, as children do, asking for forgiveness from their parents for their outrage. If you tortured, killed, or mocked people, it’s not you anyway, so your descendants will be responsible for what you’ve done, even if you’re atheist at least three times ... Do not want to understand this, do not repent, continue to "have fun", the country's population is drunk, youth is fooling, society is degrading and does not want to accept any spiritual guidelines in order to resist the temptations and not plunge the country into even greater chaos. You didn’t notice that the country is on the verge of a war for the minds and hearts. Your pride does not allow you to see the realities of what is happening. Walk like in the dark, where, where did you share the great country? The prosralipolymers ... There is none and never will be, you dreamers are empty. There will be no Orthodoxy, Catholicism or something else, and then there will be a completely different country, but it will not be called Russia. Go to the clubs to develop tolerance and smile sweetly.
              2. Penzuck
                Penzuck 21 September 2015 13: 23 New
                +1
                Quote: mrark
                ROC hierarchs require repentance:
                What a start!

                Quote: mrark
                for the fact that our great-grandfathers were tired of being slaves and participated in the revolution;

                1. Repentance can only be for sins. There are many of them. and killing for the church will always be a sin, no matter what goals a person is guided by.
                Quote: mrark
                for a won civil war;

                2. There can be no winners in a civil war. My grandmother, the "Bolsheviks" removed the roof of the house from iron (a rarity), although she was a peasant ... and left without a roof ... in the rain with the children ... WELL?
                3.
                Quote: mrark
                for the royal martyr, whom contemporaries called the Bloody.

                And what happened to the Peacemaker? The attempt? And why then he was not called "bloody"? or do you support terrorists? Which shook the state?
          2. yuriy55
            yuriy55 19 September 2015 08: 27 New
            +3
            verbiage is enough ... stop not a religion the state forms, but the people living in it, and building this state! in the USSR, the church was separated from the state, did not go into all affairs, and without its blessing a mighty country was built, the remnants of which did not allow to roam in the land and the defense industry, and energy, and much more.

            And when people could not find the answer to their questions and help from others, when in the difficult hour of hard times they faced troubles and tribulations, they pulled out and put on a simple copper cross, a guard of soul ... yes
          3. navigator
            navigator 19 September 2015 13: 22 New
            +1
            "verbiage is enough ... stop not a religion the state forms, but a people living in it, and building this state!"

            So stop verbiage. It is the Orthodox people who built Russia, Russia, the USSR, by the way, too. Or do you naively believe that everyone has renounced God and believed in communism?


            "in the USSR, the church was separated from the state, did not go into all affairs, and without its blessing a mighty country was built, the remnants of which did not allow to roam in the land and the defense industry, energy, and much more."

            And how long did a powerful country last without its blessing? About deeply Orthodox believers Sergei Pavlovich Korolev, academician Ivan Petrovich Pavlov, a world-famous surgeon Valentin Feliksovich Voino-Yasenetsky, whose Essays on Purulent Surgery are the reference book of all surgeons for many decades, which Joseph Vissarionovich called from exile when mortality in hospitals reached huge sizes heard? He is Archbishop of Luke of Crimea and Simferopol, canonized saint, who in his lifetime and now works wonders. Have you heard about the legendary Pavlov who defended Stalingrad? everyone revered Archimandrite Kirill, confessor of the Trinity-Sergius Lavra. This list can be continued for a long time. How many Church, tanks, planes did you give to the front? didn’t let the defense and the energy sector and many other things come to the end? ”
            1. MrK
              MrK 19 September 2015 16: 45 New
              +4
              Quote: navigator
              You don’t know how many tanks and planes the Church handed over to the front, would you read more about this period before writing about Orthodoxy


              There will be no libel if the hierarchs of the church behave with dignity.
              And about the columns of tanks, the current Patriarch Sergius called on believers and unbelievers of the Red Army and Navy to rally against the aggressor, and not to fall to their knees and repent of their sins.
              His successors Alexy I and Pimen I emphasized the feat of the Soviet people in the fight against the Nazis, and did not see the punishing divine right hand in them. Why did you need to look for some mystical background during historical events today?
              “The common people groan from the requisitions with which you support your estate, you have seized all the wealth, you trade all goods, bargaining for yourself incomes from other people's enterprises, having the privilege of not paying taxes to the treasury ... You live an idle life in pleasures and goodies, committing the most terrible sins, extorting money, taking advantage of bribery and extortion beyond what is possible. You are mired in all the blatant sins, gluttony, idleness, Sodom sin, the worst of the worst, with animals. ”
              Who is this whistleblower? Bolshevik? Atheist? Anticlerical? No - Tsar Ivan the Terrible. At the same time, the church went towards him in everything, closing his eyes to the oprichnina and execution. And declared by the martyr Philip, appointed Ivan the Terrible Metropolitan, fell victim to more of his intrigues than holiness.
              Could it be said about the princes of the church today?
              1. Penzuck
                Penzuck 21 September 2015 13: 40 New
                0
                Quote: mrark
                Tsar Ivan the Terrible

                King prikrilsi? Wai hoot. Some kind of rambling city is a blizzard. Where is the link to the source? "Did you read it?" - your words, do you really refuse?
                So where is the connection? Where is the king that was in the beginning? And where is that crazy grief-stricken leader? Yes, here it is, in front of you. Tsar Ivan the Great, "so called contemporaries." The tsar has accomplished many useful things for the state, people, church in the beginning ... And the tsar simply went crazy due to the constant attempts to assassinate him and his children and wives. So do you really mix white and black and say - here it is a gray monstrous mass. Moreover, recent studies show traces of monstrous doses of arsenic and mercury in the bones of the victims? Where is the dating? But no - some snot.
            2. Andrey Yuryevich
              Andrey Yuryevich 19 September 2015 18: 04 New
              0
              [quote] [quote = navigator].It is the Orthodox people and built Russia, Russia, the USSR, by the way, too [/ quote] fool and the rest of the nations stood on the sidelines and smoked ... fool
          4. MrK
            MrK 19 September 2015 16: 25 New
            +2
            Thanks Andrei Yurievich.
            A parable walks across Russia. ... When a man was a child, his grandmother always told him: “Granddaughter, you’ll grow up big, you will feel bad from your hard life - you go to the temple, it will always be easier for you there.” Man has grown. And he began to live somehow completely unbearable.
            He remembered the advice of his grandmother and went to the temple. And then someone comes up to him: “You don’t hold your hands!” The second runs up: “You don’t stand there!” The third grumbles: “You’re not dressed like that!” : - You would have left the temple, bought yourself a book about how you should behave here, then you would have come in.
            A man came out of the temple, sat on a bench and wept bitterly from such a life. And suddenly he hears a voice: - Why are you, my child, crying? The man raised his tearful face and saw Christ. Says: - Lord! They’re not letting me into the temple! Jesus hugged him: “Don’t cry, they haven’t let me in there for a long time.” Perhaps they are right who advocate Christ without a church? Is it better than a church without Christ?
            1. navigator
              navigator 19 September 2015 17: 54 New
              +1
              "There will be no libel if the hierarchs of the church behave with dignity."

              Where do you get information about the misbehavior of hierarchs? Do you personally communicate, go to church or so, OBS, the yellow press informs?


              "Maybe they are right who stand for Christ without a church?"


              Tales about Christ are a thankless task to tell, because, at least, they contradict the words of Jesus Christ Himself. And He said that he came to earth in order to create the Church of Christ, and the gates of hell will not prevail until His second Coming.

              "Still, is it better than a church without Christ?"

              It’s not better. It’s better not to write fables, not to ascribe to God what He did not say and did not do, and to write the names of people with a capital letter is the rule of the language.
              1. erofich
                erofich 19 September 2015 19: 06 New
                -2
                Watching TV! And shoals of pastors there are visible throughout the country!
                1. navigator
                  navigator 19 September 2015 19: 21 New
                  +2
                  "We watch TV! And the shoals of pastors there are visible all over the country!"

                  Watch TV further, then you will write something wrong.
                  An old joke on this subject.

                  Moisha calls Abram: "You told me that the Beatles are great at singing?
                  Fake and burr besides "
                  Abram in response: "Yes, they don’t seem to be false and not burr. And where are you
                  listening? "
                  Moisha: "Izzy sang on the phone."
                  1. erofich
                    erofich 19 September 2015 20: 29 New
                    -2
                    True eyes hurts?
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. navigator
                      navigator 19 September 2015 21: 32 New
                      0
                      "Is it true that it hurts my eyes?"


                      Krivda.
                2. The comment was deleted.
              2. MrK
                MrK 19 September 2015 19: 54 New
                +1
                Quote: navigator
                Where do you get information about the misbehavior of hierarchs? Do you personally communicate, go to church or so, OBS, the yellow press informs?

                Dear Navigator. I always share the Orthodox Church and the hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church. And you want to unite all the time.
                And where does the information come from, so I read the church press and not only. Here is an example. “The hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church, after this claim that persecution is going on the church. But the church can recognize persecution, only persecution for faith in Christ. If you are persecuted for our own sins, this is not persecution, but disassembly. Such “persecutions” are driven by rivals from a neighboring gang. But even if it were real persecution, for faith, shouldn’t it be said: “Worthy of our deeds is acceptable”?
                Why, when it comes to others, are we ready to teach them that way, and when it touches us, we begin to sing about the hostile whirlwinds that blow over us? Someone at the very top of the Moscow Patriarchate was greatly misunderstood, and now, therefore, the whole Local Church should go to some kind of “prayer stand”, defending itself against temptations from which it should defend itself by a church court (if it were not a fiction in the patriarchy ) over fined hierarchs. Now we must pretend to be poor and persecuted, suffering resentment and reproach, while our Patriarch is not even able to simply refuse this apartment with a cohabitant who so discredited his “good name”. How could you fool your congregation so stupidly? How could such ugly scandals with apartments and watches be allowed? ...
                The true martyrs of God thanked for the persecution, and did not arrange a universal booth about anonymous enemies. "

                And what kind of atheist wrote this? And Archpriest Ipatiy Baryshkin, clergyman of the Russian Orthodox Church, Moscow Patriarchate [Where to escape from this disgrace? URL: http: //lazarev.org/en/interesting/full news / kirillino_stoyanie].
                1. navigator
                  navigator 19 September 2015 21: 41 New
                  +1
                  "Dear navigator. I always share the Orthodox Church and the hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church. And you want to unite all the time.
                  And where does the information come from, so I read the church press and not only. "

                  Indeed, "and not only", "Echo Matzah" is far from the church press.

                  "Here is an example."

                  Here is the answer to your example. I advise you to carefully check the sources for examples, dear. There is no archpriest Ipatiy Baryshkin, clergyman of the Russian Orthodox Church.

                  http://v-retvizan2.livejournal.com/117655.html
                2. navigator
                  navigator 19 September 2015 23: 20 New
                  +1
                  "Dear navigator. I always share the Orthodox Church and the hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church."

                  In vain, I will give simpler analogies to understand. Separate the army from generals, schools from head teachers and directors, universities from deans, rectors, hospitals from chief doctors. Separate your head from your body. Continue?

                  "And you want to unite all the time."

                  Why, I do not do this. The priesthood and flock are all one, and this is the Church of Christ.
                3. The comment was deleted.
                4. Penzuck
                  Penzuck 21 September 2015 14: 04 New
                  +1
                  Quote: mrark
                  I always share the Orthodox Church and the hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church

                  You forget that the church is inseparable from the hierarchs. NIKEM, you Wh.
                  Quote: mrark
                  А archpriest Ipatiy Baryshkin

                  Suppose so.
                  Quote: mrark
                  ROC cleric

                  Suppose "Deacon Andrei Kuraev."
                  And who is Lazarev? Hu out? You read the topics on the site "torsion fields" and other crap.
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Penzuck
              Penzuck 21 September 2015 13: 55 New
              0
              Quote: mrark
              Jesus hugged him: “Don’t cry, they haven’t let me in there for a long time”

              BUGAGAGAGAGA, fucked up with tears, just laughing excitedly.
              Quote: mrark
              Perhaps they are right who advocate Christ without a church?

              Or maybe for Christ without the apostles? What are the little things? Well, they are also sinners ... cut them to the root. And is Christ a man? He embodied and embraced the holy fool ... And if I had come to church with a bare booty? Or do you invest personal experiences?
          5. derik1970
            derik1970 21 September 2015 07: 21 New
            +1
            a mighty country of the USSR, was built on the blood of people and was successfully poured into a garbage pit ... because lack of spirituality, irresponsibility, the desire to grab and profit did its job, but they did not believe in anything and were not afraid ... go on gentlemen, you by themselves no one decree to you ... everything will happen again ...
        2. EvgNik
          EvgNik 19 September 2015 08: 07 New
          +3
          Quote: vladimirZ
          Russia stands on Orthodoxy, and Orthodox culture is objectively state-forming.

          Your untruth. How many people go to church with us? 3-4% of the country's population. Maybe a little more, there is simply no such statistics. And is it a state-building? I am not against the church. Temples, especially ours, Orthodox, are beautiful, some are admired for their elegance. I have a believing wife, I am an agnostic, Grandfather and grandmother are Old Believers, I myself have been baptized into the Orthodox (a baby in Soviet times!). And never argued with anyone about this. Tolerance. Yes, there are friends of the Tatars (and relatives).
          1. vladimirZ
            vladimirZ 19 September 2015 08: 24 New
            0
            Your untruth. How many people go to church with us? 3-4% of the country's population.
            - EvgNik

            It doesn’t matter how many people go to church. This is not an indicator.
            The main thing is that we live in an Orthodox culture that we do not even notice.
            For many years they don’t go to church, but when they press, they whisper “Help, Lord!”, “Save, Lord!”
            Read and listen to the soldiers of the front-line soldiers, what they thought under the fire of artillery, and what they prayed to themselves, "Lord, carry it!".
            Pay attention to the statement of people expressed by them in some emotional situations: “God forbid!”, “Oh, Lord!”, “Fuck you,” etc. phrases that we don’t even notice.
            Orthodoxy in our heads and souls, as long as we are Russian and Orthodox, whether we want it or not, ignoring this means going against the objectivity of our lives.
            1. Andrey Yuryevich
              Andrey Yuryevich 19 September 2015 09: 28 New
              +1
              Quote: vladimirZ
              but when they press, they whisper "Help, Lord!", "Save, Lord!"

              but I’m swearing when I’ll “squeeze” it and very much remember it, gentlemen, and all my relatives ... forgive me if I hurt your feelings, I’m just telling the truth. winked
              1. Ermak
                Ermak 19 September 2015 09: 40 New
                +2
                but I’m swearing when I’ll “squeeze” and very much remember in the bust, gentlemen, and all his relatives

                sadly. You just make a significant contribution, so that our children talk with mates.
                What is comrade proud of?
                1. Andrey Yuryevich
                  Andrey Yuryevich 19 September 2015 18: 10 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Ermak
                  You just make a significant contribution, so that our children talk with mates.

                  I said, with children? "when it presses", there are no children nearby. - "children with mats" are talking, apparently in the gym ... sit down, two of you speak Russian. laughing
              2. vladimirZ
                vladimirZ 19 September 2015 10: 59 New
                +1
                but I’m swearing when she’s “squeezing”
                - Andrey Yuryevich (2)

                It happens. And with that, many of us, although rarely. Moreover, the mat, for some, is for a bunch of words.
                Most of all, mate is used in the men's team when there are no women, "freedom" is evidently liberating the language. But among women, a man never swears, unless he is completely "frostbitten" moron. It is especially disgusting when the mat comes from women.
                But all this, speaks only about our common low culture.
                I hope with children you do not use obscenities?
                1. Andrey Yuryevich
                  Andrey Yuryevich 19 September 2015 18: 11 New
                  0
                  Quote: vladimirZ
                  I hope with children you do not use obscenities?

                  not only do not use, but suppress on occasion! I am a normal person, even an atheist, and an atheist.
                  1. navigator
                    navigator 19 September 2015 23: 08 New
                    +1
                    "I am a normal person, albeit an atheist and an atheist."

                    Controversial thesis. And how does an atheist differ from an atheist?
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. Armax
            Armax 19 September 2015 10: 35 New
            +1
            Quote: EvgNik
            Quote: vladimirZ
            Russia stands on Orthodoxy, and Orthodox culture is objectively state-forming.
            Your untruth. How many people do we go to church? 3-4% of the country's population.

            The point here is not how many people are going to church now, the fact is that Russia as a state appeared precisely after the baptism of Russia by Prince Vladimir the Holy (if you want Vladimir Krasno Solnyshko).
            In his hands, Orthodoxy was a cement for disparate Slavic tribes and united them into a single Russia.
            Since then, our Russian state is already 2027 years old.
            1. Armax
              Armax 19 September 2015 11: 20 New
              +2
              I apologize for the typo, not 2027, but 1027 years.
            2. MrK
              MrK 19 September 2015 15: 58 New
              0
              Quote: ArMax
              the fact is that Russia as a state appeared precisely after the baptism of Russia by Prince Vladimir the Holy (if you want Vladimir Krasno Solnyshko).

              And then it fell apart into a dozen principalities. Do you want to put us again in the 11 century?
              1. Armax
                Armax 19 September 2015 18: 57 New
                +2
                Quote: mrark
                And then it fell apart into a dozen principalities. Do you want to put us again in the 11 century?

                How it fell apart, but where do we live now?
                Many wanted to try and destroy Russia (and now they want even more), but it crushed and knocked out all the conquerors.
                With God's help, we will continue to save Russia.
            3. Uncle Joe
              Uncle Joe 19 September 2015 16: 45 New
              0
              Quote: ArMax
              the fact is that Russia as a state appeared precisely after the baptism of Russia
              Russia as a state appeared in the 16th century, was a feudal state, and existed until the 17th century of the 20th century.

              After 17 years, Russia as a country remained, and the feudal state disappeared.
          3. navigator
            navigator 19 September 2015 13: 27 New
            -1
            "Your untruth. How many people do we go to church? 3-4% of the country's population. Maybe a little more, there’s just no such statistics. And is this a state-building?"


            Quantity is not quality. How many percent could be after a century of prohibitions, the destruction of believers, temples. One Khrushchev closed 16000 churches and publicly promised to show the last priest on TV. Thank God he did not live.

            "I am not opposed to the church. Temples, especially ours, Orthodox, are beautiful, some are admired for their elegance."

            Temples are not paintings to delight in their elegance, they have a different purpose.


            "I have a believing wife, I am an agnostic, Grandfather and grandmother are Old Believers, I myself have been baptized into the Orthodox (a baby in the days of the USSR!)."

            Glad for your wife, you look and beg.

            "And I never argued with anyone about this. Tolerance. Yes, there are Tatars' friends (and relatives)."

            And rightly so, Truth is not born in a dispute.
          4. The comment was deleted.
          5. MrK
            MrK 19 September 2015 16: 50 New
            -3
            Thanks EvgNik. I completely agree.
            With respect, treating believers who preserve reason, I want to emphasize that opponents of the Church Hierarchs do not require anyone to abandon beliefs. On the contrary, they insist on the implementation of the constitutional norm of freedom of conscience - the right of every person to believe in any gods or not to believe in them, visit any temple or pass by.
            They only require the abolition of the preferences of any religion by the state. But the priority given by the state of the Russian Orthodox Church cannot be noticed only by one who "does not see a log in his own eye."
            For quite some time now, 10 of famous Russian scientists, among them Nobel laureates V. Ginzburg and J. Alferov, have appealed to the president against the actions of the Russian Orthodox Church, which is increasing its influence and penetrating into all spheres of public life, which hinders the development of science: “We do not set as our goal the fight against religion, but we cannot remain indifferent when attempts are made to challenge scientific knowledge or replace it with faith ...” They said there were deaf people.
        3. MrK
          MrK 19 September 2015 16: 19 New
          0
          Quote: vladimirZ
          not to publish articles on the state-forming role of the Orthodox Church in favor of rotten tolerance means to undermine one of the pillars of the present without ideological Russia.

          And why do you think that if an atheist, then certainly Western values. I am an atheist, but I was baptized and raised on gospel values, and I look at the tolerance of the West as an abomination.
          My father, a priest, until the end of his life, did not let me serve the church. "For she does not serve God, he said, but to her pocket. "
          For example, the execution of heretics, which was demanded and sought from the tsar by the saint Saint Joseph of Volotsk, can be called medieval obscurantism. However, calling Joseph Volotsky obscurantist and sadist, you will inevitably offend the "feelings of the faithful", who to this day, venerate the works of the saint.
          Vassian Patrikeev in "Reply to the Cyril Elders", objecting to Joseph Volotsky about the execution of heretics, argued that the world should be governed by love: “Do you see, sir, even the love of Moses for those who sin evil, overpower the wrath of God. But to us, in New Grace, reign supreme Christ the love union, not to condemn brother brother about that, but to the only God to judge the transgressions of man. ”
          However, in 1531, Vassian Patrikeev was accused of “non-possessiveness” and heresy, convicted by a church court, the sentence of which has not been reviewed to this day, has been imprisoned in the Volokolamsk (now Joseph-Volotsky) monastery, where soon, according to the testimony of Prince Kurbsky, was piously slain.
          Moreover, the Russian Orthodox Church still considers the doctrine of “non-covetousness” to be heresy, and on the seventh of December 2009, with the blessing of Patriarch Kirill, Saint Joseph Volotsky was declared the patron saint of Orthodox entrepreneurship and business. The Russian church has always been attached to power, like a chapel to the temple. Over the centuries, this has put on edge. And now its hierarchs are becoming more demanding, more insistent, more uncompromising, more impudent.
          1. navigator
            navigator 19 September 2015 18: 23 New
            +1
            "My father, a priest, did not let me serve the church until the end of my life." For it does not serve God, he said, but to his pocket. ""

            "For the pure, everything is clean," said the Apostle Paul. At all times there were good shepherds and wolves in sheep's clothing. It is foolish to hope that all the saints in the Church are already alive. It was created for sinners. And your dad, as you said, saw He also warned your inclinations. Did he also write the word “God” with a small letter? And slandering not specific people, but the whole Church, I can only warn: “We will justify ourselves from our words and condemn our words.”
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. navigator
            navigator 19 September 2015 23: 13 New
            +2
            "I am an atheist, but I was baptized and raised on gospel values, and I look at the tolerance of the West as an abomination."

            You can’t sit on two chairs. You’ll already decide who you are, an atheist or a baptized person and brought up on gospel values, and therefore look at the tolerance of the West as an abomination. In two pines you get lost.
      2. rotmistr60
        rotmistr60 19 September 2015 07: 29 New
        +1
        Ours is skiing

        Another biathlon, boxing and was hockey. Big tennis is really not ours, although Sharapova (I don’t remember the other) is ahead of the rest, but by advertising.
        1. EvgNik
          EvgNik 19 September 2015 07: 49 New
          +1
          Quote: rotmistr60
          Another biathlon, boxing and was hockey

          Biathlon I had the same in mind. But hockey and football really were.
      3. yuriy55
        yuriy55 19 September 2015 08: 24 New
        0
        ... and I, an agnostic, have the right to have an opinion about the church ...

        Undoubtedly and undoubtedly, about the church ... About Faith, you have the right to believe or not. yes
      4. the polar
        the polar 19 September 2015 08: 37 New
        +4
        Atheists, for the most part, are not against the Russian Orthodox Church, but against the construction of churches and churches at the expense of the budget. Let the Orthodox build their donations and then we will see how much the people believe in the Russian Orthodox Church and its beneficial influence.
        Believers of the Novorossiysk are quite enough to turn their eyes across the bay in the Gelendzhik direction, where a patriarch’s estate was built right on the seashore worth several hundred million dollars, on several dozens of hectares of state land of fucked value. And turning to the patriarchal estate, offer prayers for the sending of all the blessings to the New Russians and the taming of the economic crisis, from which the New Russians have a hard time. By the way, a patriarchal estate and a personal church were built for him, so that the inhabitants of the Lesser Earth, in direct visibility, can deliver their prayers, as well as the cadets of the former higher naval school
        1. navigator
          navigator 19 September 2015 22: 52 New
          0
          “Atheists, for the most part, are not against the Russian Orthodox Church, but against the construction of churches and churches at the expense of the budget. Let the Orthodox build on their donations”

          How many were expropriated from the Church, how many churches were used for shops, clubs, granaries? And, in all cases, a toilet was made at the altar’s place completely by accident. And how many of these defiled churches were returned?

          "and then we will see how much people believe in the Russian Orthodox Church and its beneficial influence"

          The people in Russia make up the Russian Orthodox Church, but believe in God, and not in the Russian Orthodox Church and its beneficial influence. Do not be stupid.
  4. Egoza
    Egoza 19 September 2015 08: 24 New
    +4
    In fact, for prestige and memory, one often needs to recall the priests who during the Second World War helped the partisans, defended their parishioners and suffered from Nazis for their faith. Many were awarded state military awards - these people should not be forgotten.
    In general, Russian people surprisingly coexist with Orthodoxy, and atheism, and paganism. repeat Maybe this is the strength? wink
    1. MrK
      MrK 19 September 2015 17: 04 New
      0
      Quote: Egoza
      In fact, for prestige and memory, you often need to recall the priests who helped the partisans during the Second World War, defended their parishioners and suffered from Nazis for their faith

      I agree. But this is the lowest link of priests. They need to bow in the belt at every mass.
      But we are talking about the hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church. Which determine the policy of the church, and not ordinary priest, of whom there are many - honest and decent. Which help ordinary people to survive in our difficult life.
  5. X Y Z
    X Y Z 19 September 2015 08: 28 New
    -1
    At the end of last week, work began on the construction of the Naval Nikolsky Cathedral in Novorossiysk, at which they also plan to open a seminary. It seems that it is not a nightclub that is being built and not a nuclear power station, much less a nuclear test site. But the church suddenly faced resistance from the local population.


    A similar thing happened in Moscow. When they were planning to build a temple on Khodynka, local activists, having knocked down a flock of residents of the house next to which construction was planned, said that we are Orthodox, we go on pilgrimage trips, but we do not need a temple near our house, we will not allow construction. At the same time, they tried to prevent any prayers in that place or a meeting of believers and almost called the police. You should have seen their fierce faces! It is even impossible to imagine. And these people call themselves Orthodox.
    1. the polar
      the polar 19 September 2015 08: 42 New
      +2
      If they are Orthodox, then to them what, now they should take the entire salary to the church at once, to the delight of the priests, and build a church before each entrance? It’s good to have a conscience for priests, maybe someday it will come in handy.
      1. navigator
        navigator 19 September 2015 19: 33 New
        0
        "Now all the salary at once in the church to carry, to the delight of the priests, and before each porch to build a church? It’s good to have a conscience and priests, maybe someday come in handy."

        And you also have a good conscience, perhaps it’s useful. Why, before each entrance, write before each apartment.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. navigator
      navigator 19 September 2015 15: 53 New
      -3
      “You should have seen their fierce faces! It’s impossible to even imagine such a thing. And these people call themselves Orthodox.”

      Therefore, judge by the Gospel: “Faith without works is dead.” “By their fruits you will know them.” That's all. You can call yourself anyone and not be him. Someone Napoleon, someone calls himself the Pope.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  6. erofich
    erofich 19 September 2015 09: 11 New
    +1
    Exactly, our church is separated from the state and there is nothing to go into state affairs. And where they are planning to build a cathedral, 100 meters away, the so-called Sujuk spit and estuary, and much of what grows next to the estuary, is listed in the Red Book during Soviet times! So it turns out that the ROC is going to take a piece of nature to nowhere. Even near the bridge to Kerch, red-book plants and snakes are transplanted. And on Small Earth? And one more question, and what did the Russian Orthodox Church have to the Malaya Zemlya in general, then and now? My wife's father died on a boat in those places, he was a communist, albeit a baptized one. So we have the whole country baptized, so what? Will we build seminaries everywhere? And it seems to me that at first it was necessary to ask those who live there, even organize a vote. But the priests, there are human ones, but there are after all those who are very fat and very fat!
    1. Eastern wind
      19 September 2015 10: 52 New
      0
      Dear, when was the last time you were on the Sujuk spit? First, alas, it is polluted. My friends and I went there to pick up trash, but the efforts of the three will not overpower the efforts of entire trucks. The Orthodox church, I hope, will drive out from there junkies and drunks who are ecologically abhorrent.

      Secondly, the ROC has little to do with the Little Earth, and therefore it does not rush in there! If you want to keep the Small Earth in its original form, then you have to demolish half of my city.

      Third, advice for the future, do not write about the area in which you do not live ...
      1. erofich
        erofich 19 September 2015 15: 35 New
        +2
        I live nearby, you are our true lover. Have you heard that? : good intentions paved the road to hell!
        Near Neptune there is one cathedral, on Malaya Zemlya another, and the distances are 1-2 km. By the way, the Small land extends from a sailor with a grenade to Myskhak - you are our historian and geographer. You need to know the history of your city!
    2. Buffalo
      Buffalo 19 September 2015 15: 44 New
      0
      Wow! He regretted the snakes !!!
      The snake is not a rock, it can crawl away. And if someone really feels sorry for the plants, grab and transplant. - The construction site is not the size of Russia. However, I'm sure they will not do this!
      1. erofich
        erofich 19 September 2015 18: 54 New
        0
        So why then a lot of snot about snakes next to the future bridge in Kerch? And transplanted and resettled there, specially trained people, by the way. And not a word about Sujuk Spit? And the cathedral is going to vyuhnut practically on the spit. Do you feel sorry for your city?
        1. Buffalo
          Buffalo 20 September 2015 23: 13 New
          +1
          Language is not a pity? However, he is without bones ...
  7. Sanya Rus
    Sanya Rus 19 September 2015 11: 33 New
    -8
    The church does not interfere in worldly affairs, but is engaged in the spiritual nourishment of believers, the same Lavrenty of Chernigov, hosted the Germans as well, and if the priest is engaged in politics, this is a direct violation of the church’s position, everyone is equal before God and judged according to their affairs, and not their affiliation or the opposing side. And the Soviet government brought evil to Russia no less than the Nazi bastard, and the Orthodox Church did not cooperate either with the Soviet government or with the Nazis, but was engaged in its direct business.
    1. erofich
      erofich 19 September 2015 20: 33 New
      +1
      Read what they wrote before you. It turned out that the church is neutral. And if Hitler - she does not care!
      1. Buffalo
        Buffalo 20 September 2015 23: 05 New
        +1
        Truly, sometimes, it is better to chew than to speak!
        The church raised money for tanks and planes during the war. How many priests helped the partisans! Stalin ordered the opening of churches during the war.
        Teach materiel, ignoramus!
    2. Buffalo
      Buffalo 20 September 2015 23: 12 New
      +1
      Not today it was said:
      "Who is not Orthodox, he is not Russian!"
      There was such a patriarch, Pimen. He went through the whole war, he had all his chest in military orders was like an iconostasis.
      And only after the war, he vowed to leave and spend the rest of the days in the monastery.
  8. ivant74rus
    ivant74rus 19 September 2015 11: 54 New
    0
    More and more they want to make God's servants; more and more they make churches. It would be better to build a park.
    1. Eastern wind
      19 September 2015 13: 19 New
      0
      Do not believe it, they do it ...
      1. erofich
        erofich 19 September 2015 18: 57 New
        0
        They planned to build the Chapel of Ntkolay the Wonderworker next to the Neptune Cinema. Construction continues, only this is for something else. "Pure" brothers from the 90s. They squeezed out a piece of land in a beautiful place of the city, on the embankment, and now they have extended their hand to the next piece? And why should they be liked?
  9. Mihail55
    Mihail55 19 September 2015 13: 10 New
    +2
    Maybe a little off topic, but it's worth thinking about these. The purposeful destruction of temples and monasteries by the Bolsheviks in godless years is the modern deeds of ISIS that destroy world architectural values! Isn't that comparable? Why ruin what is not done by you? And the cries of reconstruction, the transfer back to the bosom of the church taken away, not to mention the remake.
  10. Buffalo
    Buffalo 19 September 2015 15: 20 New
    -3
    Satanists, descendants and spiritual heirs of the notorious militant atheist Miney Izrailevich Gubelman (pseudonym Emelian Yaroslavsky) do not get tired of spoiling and defiling, lying and opposing Orthodoxy.
    1. erofich
      erofich 19 September 2015 19: 00 New
      +1
      And you are the purest “Gapon" who, for the sake of his interests, led people under bullets, and he himself escaped.
      1. Buffalo
        Buffalo 20 September 2015 23: 08 New
        +1
        I have not run away.
        As V. Vysotsky said:
        I have not left and will not leave!
  11. Shurik70
    Shurik70 20 September 2015 09: 51 New
    +1
    Well, yes, churchmen are able to stir up the language. And even some logic in the words is.

    "During the war, the Patriarchal Locum Tenens condemned those churchmen who prayed for the victory of enemies."
    Yeah. He would try to say the opposite. Under Stalin.
    But those who turned out to be in German territory did not join the partisans, did not give up their dignity, but chose to stay in a warm place.
    "Power from God." Yeah.
    And about how the secret police reported the content of the confessions, even from the time of Peter the Great, they don’t remember something. You see, in 1 years it’s also called “evil libel”.

    "Ah-ah, well, what pressure on the terrain of the little temple, there’s a fence! Green! And it doesn’t prevail. And you know! People bathe there on the beach! So let's build another temple! And the concert hall is rusted, so the temple is definitely needed!"
    The logic is iron! That's just rusted.
    1. navigator
      navigator 20 September 2015 23: 23 New
      +1
      “But they don’t remember something about how the secret police reported the contents of confessions, even from the time of Peter the Great. You look, after 1 years they’ll call it“ evil libel ”.

      Someone who reported this to you since the time of Peter the Great, Shurik? The logic is iron! That's just rusted. Ugu. Ugu.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Buffalo
      Buffalo 20 September 2015 23: 47 New
      +1
      Clone of Iron Shurik (Nevzorov)?
  12. Buffalo
    Buffalo 20 September 2015 23: 37 New
    +1
    St. John Chrysostom. The word of John Chrysostom

    If you hear that someone is at a crossroads or in a square blaspheming God, come and give him a suggestion. And if you need to hit, do not refuse - hit him in the face, crush his mouth, sanctify your hand with a blow; and if they accuse you, be brought to court - go. And if the judge asks for an answer, feel free to say that he has blasphemed the King of Angels, for if you should punish those who blasphemed the king of the earth, then they offend Togo much more. A crime of one kind is an insult.
    1. erofich
      erofich 21 September 2015 13: 10 New
      -1
      So God is not blasphemy, but those who decide that he can speak on behalf of God. And their opinion is that of God. I wonder why you think that your opinion on the temples is true, while others do not. You have no right to speak on behalf of God and impose your opinion on other people! And Russia is all of us, and not those who decided that they are right. Those who swear, and do not swear, who blaspheme God - they are all - Russia. Because they were dying for her and if necessary they would be. And you - ?
      1. navigator
        navigator 21 September 2015 19: 09 New
        -1
        "So God is not blasphemy, but those who decide that he can speak on behalf of God. And their opinion is the opinion of God. I wonder why you think your opinion on the temples is true, and others do not."

        If only because blasphemy.

        "You have no right to speak on behalf of God and impose your opinion on other people!"

        Nobody imposes anything on you.

        "And Russia is all of us, and not those who decided that they are right. Those who swear, and do not swear, who blaspheme God - they are all Russia."

        Unfortunately, this is the case. And those who blaspheme God, are also swearing Russia, and the worst part is due to such "achievements".

        "Because they were dying for her, and if necessary, they will be. And you -?"

        They are, yes, and you?
        1. erofich
          erofich 22 September 2015 14: 44 New
          -1
          And I am part of the people and have already died for him. And you should be ashamed. There are no arguments!
          1. navigator
            navigator 22 September 2015 16: 51 New
            0
            "But I am a part of the people and have already died for it. And you should be ashamed. There are no arguments!”

            And I am part of the people. And I do not swear, and I do not blaspheme, therefore I should not be ashamed and not ashamed. And there are arguments, they have brought enough here, only in order to hear them, at least, brains must be besides bile.
            1. erofich
              erofich 23 September 2015 10: 20 New
              -1
              Not a single arment that would make you think. The simple idea of ​​a fix is ​​that the cathedral should be built, and whoever does not agree, anathema to that!
      2. The comment was deleted.
  13. Buffalo
    Buffalo 20 September 2015 23: 41 New
    0
    To whom God is not the Father, to that Russia is not the mother.
  14. Buffalo
    Buffalo 20 September 2015 23: 45 New
    +1
    Saint Filaret of Moscow: "Love your enemies, crush the enemies of the Fatherland, disobey the enemies of God."
    http://ruskline.ru/monitoring_smi/2013/10/05/svt_filaret_moskovskij_lyubi_vragov
    _svoih_sokrushaj_vragov_otechestva_gnushajsya_vragami_bozhiimi
  15. Buffalo
    Buffalo 20 September 2015 23: 55 New
    +1
    “If your brother sins against you, go and convict him between you and him alone; if he listens to you, then you have acquired your brother; if he does not listen, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses any word will be confirmed; if he does not listen to them, tell the church; and if he doesn’t listen to the church, then let him be to you, as a heathen and a tax collector ”(Matthew 18: 15-17)