Military Review

Russia builds ships for those who have money

88
Russia builds ships for those who have money



Twenty years of destructive "reforms." Such is the axiom of our time, justifying the delays and insurmountable (ostensibly) difficulties in updating the naval personnel of the Russian Navy. A submarine in twenty years and a frigate in nine. There is a complete loss of technology and production culture. We are not able to build anything, and we will need more ... ten years to restore the enterprises and lost personnel. It is advisable to buy another Mistral abroad, so that our shipbuilders will gain at least some experience in the design and construction of modern ships.

His name was “Eternal”

As is known, the last combat ships of the 1 rank (the large anti-submarine ship Admiral Chabanenko and TARC Peter the Great) were transferred to the Russian Navy in 1998-99. The destroyer “Eternal” is not among them, although he entered service on 7 years later. Now, together with the destroyer “Impressive” (new name - “Taizhou”), the destroyer “Eternal” (“Ningbo”) is serving in the Chinese Navy.

Briefly about the important thing: two rocket-artillery destroyers of the 956-EM Ave., incorporated in the 2002 and transferred to the customer in the 2005-06.

Three and a half years from the moment of laying up to the entry into service for the ship of the ocean zone with a full displacement of 8000 tons! The pace of construction is catching up with indicators of the Soviet period. Here it is, the great essence of capitalism, in the pursuit of profit capitalists work wonders.



One of the main drawbacks of the 956 project was the lack of opportunities for the permanent deployment of a helicopter. The wishes of the Chinese were taken into account in pr. 956-EM (export, upgraded). In the shortest possible time, the specialists of the Northern PKB corrected the project: the destroyer received a completely modified aft part. The 130-mm artillery unit disappeared, the ZU90С launcher with the Uragan anti-aircraft complex was moved to its place. As a result of the rearrangement in the middle part of the body, there was enough space for a full-fledged helicopter hangar.

The anti-aircraft armament was strengthened by replacing the outdated AK-630 with two modern modules of the Kashtan ChekPan.

Unlike Russian fleet, content with the basic modification of the Moskit anti-ship missile system, China was supplied with modernized anti-ship missiles with an increased firing range (Moskit-EM, up to 200 km with a low-altitude flight profile).


Ningbo Shoots Mosquito


The destroyers “Taizhou” and “Ningbo”, along with two other “Hangzhou” and “Fuzhou” (formerly “Important” and “Thoughtful” - laid down at the Union, but completed with Chinese money in 1999-2000) make up a uniform shock PLA Navy connection carrying 32 supersonic anti-ship missiles and 192 anti-aircraft missiles.



Reef-m

The anti-aircraft system C-300 does not need a long view.

In the world there are only three shipboard S-300FM. The first replaced one of the two C-300Fs aboard the nuclear-powered cruiser Peter the Great (there was not enough money to replace the second C-300F with the C-300FM).

Two other sets of C-300FMs were assembled in the middle of the 2000s and installed on board the destroyers Shenyang and Shijiazhuang (type 051C).

It is no secret that hull structures make up only a small part of the cost of ships. Along with the power plant, the most complex and costly element of the ship is considered its weapon. First of all - long-range air defense missile systems, for which appropriate means of detecting and controlling fire are required.

Both Chinese destroyers Type 051С were built in 2006-07. specifically to accommodate a unique anti-aircraft system.


The C-300FM complex aboard the Shenyang destroyer. In the foreground is the elevating mirror of the ФХNUMXМ radar, in front of it are revolver-type launchers (1 launchers with 6 missiles in each). In the background - a general view frigate radar. All Russian production

What is the difference between the C-300FM and the "ordinary" C-300F installed on four domestic cruisers?

The difference in the fire control system. Instead of 30-ton “Tits” ZR-41, modern radar F1M with a phased antenna array is used. The firing range increased dramatically (from 90 to 150 km), the density of fire doubled (simultaneous targeting of missiles to 12 at six air targets - instead of six missiles at three targets at ZR-41).

The capabilities of the new control system allowed the ships to be equipped with the 46Н6Е2 anti-aircraft missile with an increased launch range (up to 200 km) and enhanced capabilities in the fight against ballistic targets.

The 051C type destroyers were the first PLA naval ships with zonal air defense systems. Thanks to the Russian C-300FM complexes, the Chinese destroyers were at that time the best naval anti-aircraft platforms, surpassing the American Aegis in terms of air defense / missile defense capabilities.

Our pride is “Vikramaditya”

Former Soviet aircraft carrier “Admiral Gorshkov”, which became the Indian aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya.



What changed? Everything. During construction on the ship, most of the elements above the waterline (234 hull section) were replaced and the power plant was completely replaced. 2300 kilometers of cables laid. Replaced boilers and installed turbines increased power. Desalination plants have been upgraded - the ship is now able to produce up to 400 tons of fresh water per day. The Indians demanded to dismantle all outdated weapons (subsequently, Israeli-made Barak anti-aircraft complexes will be installed on the ship). Restructuring undergone hangar. In the course of work, the aircraft carrier received a solid flight deck with an area of ​​8093 square. m. To ensure the operation of the wing in the bow of the take-off springboard appeared with a descent angle 14 °. To ensure the operation of the wing on board the Vikramaditya, two launching points were equipped with gas chippers, a three-wire air arrestor and an optical landing system Luna-3E were installed. The carrying capacity of the front-mounted air lift was increased to 30 tons.



Initially, the contract for the modernization (in fact, construction) of the aircraft carrier provided for the transfer of the ship to the customer in 2008. Of course, this bold schedule was thwarted. The Russians ’bitten off the Indians, having doubled the estimate and delayed the transfer of“ Vikramadity ”by 4 of the year. Another year was spent on refurbishment of the GEM, the boiler-house group of which failed at sea trials in the 2012 year.

Well, now all the problems behind. For the second year INS Vikramaditya has served in the Indian Navy.



Contrary to all skeptics (“first learn to build frigates!”), A real aircraft carrier with a length of 283 meters and a displacement of 45 thousand tons was built in our harsh fatherland! Built quite quickly: the general course of work took no more than 8 years. The cost of deep modernization "Gorshkov" amounted to 2,3 billion dollars, which fits into international standards for aircraft carrying ships.

Paradox?

As soon as money appears, all questions end. Somehow the problem with “lack of capacity and personnel” is being solved. Instantly there is a place to build a ship of any size and destination (how so? Really? The only place where you can build aircraft carriers is the Nikolaev GCC, in the territory of Ukraine).

The aircraft carrier and four destroyers, not counting the weapon sets for the Indian and Chinese naval forces, are deck fighters, Rif-M anti-aircraft systems, cruise missiles of the Caliber family ... This list would be incomplete without Indian frigates of the Talwar type (Pr 11356).



The Talwar project was developed on its own initiative by the Northern PKB on the basis of the 1135 Pr. Guard. Admittedly, the result exceeded expectations. From the once successful "Petrel" turned out to be a multifunctional warship of the XXI century: with the technology of "stealth", solid impact potential and excellent defensive systems for a ship of this class. Objectively, Talvar is the best frigate available today. The most balanced and well-armed, while relatively simple in design and cheap to build.

Between 1999 and 2013 Six ships of this type were built at Russian shipyards. The average rate of construction of one unit was 4 of the year from the moment of laying up to the entry into service. The first three Talvar were built on the Severnaya Verf, the last three were built on the Kaliningrad Yantar.

On the same “Yantar”, which already 11 year can not complete the BDK “Ivan Gren” for the Russian fleet. Similar in displacement, but much more primitive in equipment than the Indian Talwar.

It is curious that similar TFR pr. 11356, under construction for the Russian fleet in the amount of four units, also turned into long-term construction. The head Admiral Grigorovich, laid down in 2010, has not yet been handed over to the fleet. In general, there is nothing surprising.

Aircraft carriers, destroyers, "Talvary" - this is not all.

The invisible, both literally and figuratively, part of the list is the 15 submarines of the 636М and 636.1 projects for the naval forces of China, Algeria and Vietnam. All this is modernized “black holes”, elusive Varshavyanka type diesel-electric submarines with updated systems and weapons. Built in 2002-2015. with an average build rate of 2-3 of the year.


The Sindurakshak diesel-electric submarines after a deep modernization at the Zvezdochka CVD (2013 year). As part of the Russian-Indian contract worth $ 80 million, Sindurakshak received a new USHUS hydroacoustic station, a Porpoise radar, new EW tools, a CСS-MK-2 radio communications system, the Club-S guided weapon complex (anti-ship and tactical cruise missiles - export modifications of the family of Russian caliber missiles). Curiously, none of the “Varshavyanok” of the Russian fleet received such a modernization, having remained at the level of the 80s.

As for our sailors, they got “black holes” of a different nature. Mysterious financial schemes in which any means are dissolved.

Only this explains the paradox in which we are building an aircraft carrier for India, while the domestic fleet cannot receive a corvette for nine years (the “Perfect” epic on the Amur GCC, lasting from 2006 to the present).

The examples given eloquently indicate that we have no shortage of either technology or production facilities or personnel.

You can not make claims to the shipyards, the CVD and suppliers of high-tech equipment. They produce in private, guided by profit and common sense. Exports helped them to survive in the absence of orders from the Ministry of Defense. At the same time, access to the world market itself partially offset the losses caused by the collapse of the Union: now you can openly buy any technology and find a new supplier of materials and equipment.

The problem lies on a different plane: the Defense Ministry’s budget is managed by the Serdyukov-Vassilyevs with obvious consequences for the Defense Ministry.

Author:
88 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Evgeniy667b
    Evgeniy667b 15 September 2015 06: 23 New
    +7
    Atas is complete! Moreover, the Russian leaders, together with the "Guarantor", apparently do not want our navy and army to be strong. Why should a raw materials appendage have armed forces? Enough of the cops is more important !!!
    There is a deflection under the interests of the "West", an agent of influence. The case of Bear-labeled blooms and flourishes.
    1. Vova.tobol
      Vova.tobol 15 September 2015 06: 49 New
      +4
      The 956 project destroyers had Two helicopters in the hangar. The rest I just want to breathe! Alas, everything is true!
      1. marlin1203
        marlin1203 15 September 2015 10: 06 New
        +8
        Which one did you serve? There are no hangars for helicopters, especially two.
        The designers did not provide for a permanent helicopter hangar on the ships of this project, however, instead of it there is a telescopic (movable) aluminum alloy hangar on the ships of the project, in which it is possible to temporarily shelter 1 Ka-27 helicopter. The helipad is located almost in the middle of the ship (behind the aft superstructure), due to this, when landing a decked helicopter, the pitching of pitching affects much less. There are no helicopter forced landing systems on the ship. Depending on the configuration, the helicopter can fight with submarines within the area of ​​air defense supply by ship, or conduct radar reconnaissance to give target designation to the anti-ship complex.
      2. Bersaglieri
        Bersaglieri 15 September 2015 10: 13 New
        +6
        No. 2 helicopters on the BOD pr.1155. Do not confuse.
      3. Alekseev
        Alekseev 15 September 2015 17: 17 New
        +5
        Quote: Vova.tobol
        Alas, everything is true!

        That's for sure - "Russia is building ships for the one who has money."
        And everything else, including in the military-industrial complex: the Strategic Missile Forces, rearmament of air forces and aviation, exercises and money allowance, strengthening the defense of Crimea, help from Comrade B. Assad, keeping Banderlogs on a short leash, fighting terror in the Caucasus and more, also requires money. Even if you ensure that no one steals a penny, all one will not be enough.
        That slows down expensive projects for the construction of the fleet, not the cheapest kind of aircraft.
        And then there are thieves ...request
        There is only one way out - to listen to Comrade. Glazyev, adviser to the president, and develop the national economy.
        The thieves are "mercilessly arquebuse," as Peter the Great demanded.yes
    2. insafufa
      insafufa 15 September 2015 07: 05 New
      +17
      Oleg is right that as soon as real money appears, our wonders
      The whole problem is in effective managers who work effectively in their own pocket.

      You don’t have to go far, you need to look at Zelenodolsky Shipyard, they just work wonders
      1. Nishtiag
        Nishtiag 29 September 2015 14: 47 New
        +1
        The problem is not just the lack of money. The author of the article correctly pointed out that there is money. But there is a difference to whom you supply the equipment. If abroad, then you need to report for each ruble / dollar. And if it’s for us, it’s also necessary, but it’s possible to “negotiate”, explain that there are difficulties, that the contractors fail (they may be different for the ships of the same type in the Navy or for export), Aunt Manya, who alone knows how to wind cables , went on vacation / maternity leave / was hit by a car / quit / died of cancer / old age and so on ... As a result, from the side of the parent manufacturer is always the argument: "besides me to you (the Ministry of Industry / Defense / Agriculture and so on) nobody can make you this ship / satellite / airplane / fleet her and so on ... "And I’m talking about the fact that at the moment in our country the majority of enterprises and people work" THROUGH THE ASS ", not even that, without the quotes THROUGH THE ASS. Take a look around. Your workmate, higher direct or higher bosses, your subordinates, janitors, housing and communal services, repairmen of roads, courtyards, builders, anyone, you yourself in the end ... You may not even notice this amid the general sloppiness . And so until each, I emphasize EVERYONE, begins to answer for MYSELF PERSONALLY (!) And not before the boss, but before himself, before his conscience! When a person completes the work, smokes, returns to look at the result, carefully evaluates everything and can say: “Yes, today I did the right job! What I did was done qualitatively, in accordance with all the rules and GOSTs, meets the requirements of the customer, which I agreed complete, done on time, without delays and delays, will work as much as it should and even more! " - that's when everyone will work like that, everything in the country and in the world will be fine. And if there is a problem with contractors, with colleagues, due to the fact that they do not provide you with the result of their work on time, you need not to give up and sit on your ass to wait a month or a year, but to solve the problem. Change the contractor. Immediately notify the customer about the problem. Carry out checks, write complaints, you must always act !!!
    3. Santa Fe
      15 September 2015 07: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: Evgeniy667b
      Enough of the cops is more important !!!

      Today, the internal troops of Russia are a powerful paramilitary formation. Modern internal troops are fully motorized, operational (motorized rifle) units have armored vehicles. Internal troops have their own aviation, artillery, engineering, naval units.

      So, what is the main army in this Russia, is still to see. In this regard, the approach to the armament of the Ministry of Internal Affairs causes slight bewilderment. The bottom line is that if the Ministry of Internal Affairs needs some kind of child prodigy produced somewhere in a foreign country, then there are no problems in acquiring it, and no one is hiding it. At the same time - the Red Army is obliged to buy weapons only from the best domestic manufacturers in the world;





      Headcount> 170 thousand people



      The world's largest car for dispersing demonstrations - "Avalanche-M", which of course symbolizes itself
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 15 September 2015 08: 00 New
        +10
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

        The world's largest car for dispersing demonstrations - "Avalanche-M", which of course symbolizes itself

        Everyone’s internal military in their own way symbolizes who has served time in the zone, so he remembers them from the towers.
        VV participate in all conflicts, Chechnya, Dagestan, Georgia. But you notice, only the largest car in the world for dispersal. And by the way, she’s not big wassat
        1. Santa Fe
          15 September 2015 08: 11 New
          -4
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          VV participate in all conflicts, Chechnya, Dagestan, Georgia

          Logically, this should be done by the army
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 15 September 2015 09: 56 New
            +10
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

            Logically, this should be done by the army

            According to the logic of Chechnya and Dagestan, the territory of Russia should be engaged in restoring order by the explosives and the police.
            Georgia, yes the army, but also the military branch of the armed forces, because you have no logic request
            1. Santa Fe
              15 September 2015 10: 14 New
              -4
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              According to the logic of Chechnya and Dagestan, the territory of Russia should be engaged in restoring order by the explosives and the police.

              Logically, there were real wars in Chechnya and Dagestan, bashfully called "counter-terrorist operations"

              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              because you have no logic

              mutually
          2. PSih2097
            PSih2097 15 September 2015 13: 44 New
            +9
            Army p
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            VV participate in all conflicts, Chechnya, Dagestan, Georgia

            Logically, this should be done by the army

            By the logic of things, the army should not be engaged in restoring order in the territory of its country, for this there is the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB, the army has completely different tasks, for now the army in our exercises is engaged in repelling the attacks of gangs and terrorist groups, I certainly understand that NATO is one big gang, but still ...
        2. insafufa
          insafufa 15 September 2015 08: 44 New
          -2
          Quote: Alexander Romanov

          VV participate in all conflicts, Chechnya, Dagestan

          Yeah, but only without an army they are not where the warriors of them are not so hot which they themselves failed to cope with on their own
          Quote: Alexander Romanov

          VV participate in all conflicts Georgia.

          This is to what sides they participated there sad
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 15 September 2015 09: 58 New
            0
            Quote: insafufa

            Yeah, but only without an army they are not much warriors

            Che true lol Chechen battalions were part of a brigade? 46 not and in Georgia she was not lol
            1. Santa Fe
              15 September 2015 10: 15 New
              -2
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Che true

              Do they have heavy armored vehicles?
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 15 September 2015 10: 21 New
                +2
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

                Do they have heavy armored vehicles?

                The army has no infantry, the marines do not, the airborne troops do not, and then what?
                1. insafufa
                  insafufa 15 September 2015 10: 55 New
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

                  Do they have heavy armored vehicles?

                  The army has no infantry, the marines do not, the airborne troops do not, and then what?

                  And then what further I know how it ran and how heels sparkle lol
                  Well, if without laughter something like this, it’s hard to predict how the story will end
                  there was a time I like that in the mountains of the Caucasus 2001
                  1. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 15 September 2015 11: 03 New
                    +3
                    Quote: insafufa
                    And then what further I know how it ran and how heels sparkle

                    Yeah, I also remember how the special forces of the explosives worked and how they fought at all the holes of the Dudaevskys and others.
                    Quote: insafufa
                    there was a time I like that in the mountains of the Caucasus 2001

                    You are in the mountains of the Caucasus wassat And you? Only here is a photo from the reconnaissance exercises "Peace Mission 2012" 201 military base of Tajikistan. The warrior is a pancake keyboard.
                    1. insafufa
                      insafufa 15 September 2015 11: 44 New
                      -3
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      Quote: insafufa
                      there was a time I like that in the mountains of the Caucasus 2001

                      You are in the mountains of the Caucasus wassat And you? Only here is a photo from the reconnaissance exercises "Peace Mission 2012" 201 military base of Tajikistan. The warrior is a pancake keyboard.


                      Photo from Ineta, I don’t forget this. For example, it was
                      the specials did not remain their own; they burned the entire demobilization album and drove home without photos and without the front dress form in the field in kirsach unfortunately there was nothing left of the army. There’s nothing to brag about.
                      And they are also observing posts in Africa laughing

                      http://kisvalera.narod.ru/foto/chechnya/05.html

                      Here on this photo is more like ours in Shalyakh on the house
                      1. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 15 September 2015 14: 55 New
                        +2
                        Quote: insafufa
                        Specialists burned the entire demobilization album

                        wassat
                        Quote: insafufa
                        went home without pictures

                        And I didn’t send a single photo crying
                        Quote: insafufa
                        without uniform

                        Lump zastirai gave lol
                        Quote: insafufa
                        kirzachah unfortunately there is nothing left of the army

                        Did the kirzachi stay? -light up wink
                        Quote: insafufa
                        And they are also observing posts in Africa

                        Have you been to Africa?
                        Studio Part Number
                    2. insafufa
                      insafufa 15 September 2015 12: 00 New
                      0
                      Plus I put it for pointing to not even the link to the site. laughing
            2. Vladimir 1964
              Vladimir 1964 15 September 2015 20: 10 New
              0
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Quote: insafufa

              Yeah, but only without an army they are not much warriors

              Che true lol Chechen battalions were part of a brigade? 46 not and in Georgia she was not lol


              Alexander, let me intervene in your argument.
              The Vostok battalion is indeed structurally included in the Grozny Motorized Rifle Brigade, I don’t remember the number, as well as the name of the second battalion (like the West) and is a unit of the RF Armed Forces, that is, the phrase
              VV participate in all conflicts Georgia.

              it is not acceptable, because Explosives are included in the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

              PS Neither of you minus nor plus, so I observe the dispute.
        3. g1v2
          g1v2 15 September 2015 19: 23 New
          +2
          Well, for the beginning, the zone of centuries has not been guarded for a long time. Contractors of the Ministry of Justice are doing this. Well, as for the number and weapons. VV is intended for operations within the country and one of the main reasons for the high numbers is Chechnya. In addition, in the 90s the whole Caucasus, Tatarstan and so on were at risk. In fact, all that dill says about different separatist movements - Siberian, Caucasian and Ural, all this was in the 90s. Now this is not. And for this alone, some who deserve a monument. Plus, one of the main directions has always been the suppression of a possible military insurrection (GKChP and so on). For example, in the tactical cc classes, the officers told us about the plans for the disposal of the Taman and Kantemirovsky court divisions located at the ODON command. I think the other units have worked out plans to neutralize any army unit in the event of a rebellion. Plus the elimination of any riots - both spontaneous and organized. The country is large and therefore, in any part of it, it is necessary to ensure control and the rule of law. Plus, the possible penetration of the Islamists in the rear, plus ensuring the security of the rear in case of war, plus the protection of special cargo and special facilities. There is a lot of work and no one will do it without an army.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 15 September 2015 15: 13 New
        +2
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Today, the internal troops of Russia are a powerful paramilitary formation. Modern internal troops are fully motorized, operational (motorized rifle) units have armored vehicles. Internal troops have their own aviation, artillery, engineering, naval units.

        In fact, this description of explosives most likely refers to the 90th. Then, under Boris Alcoholic, with his system of checks and balances a-la Afghanistan under Najib, the BB really became the second army, with its artillery, armor (up to T-62), the air force and air defense.
        With GDP, explosives began to be systematically cut, reducing the "army" component. So, for example, in ODON in 2004, the otb. As a result, now the “armor” of the explosives is, at best, the BMP-2. AND hospital average - this is BTR-8 * of various modifications, "tigers" and a whole brood of armored trucks - from artisanal crafts to special BA.
        The artillery of the explosives was also nerfed - the ZU-23 and 82-mm mortars remained.
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        The bottom line is that if the Ministry of Internal Affairs needs some kind of child prodigy produced somewhere in a foreign country, then there are no problems in acquiring it, and no one is hiding it. At the same time - the Red Army is obliged to buy weapons only from the best domestic manufacturers in the world;

        Heh heh heh ... Ulanova and Mokrushin had comments in the comments about how they later suffer with these wunderwaffles, not able to in an official way to purchase even ammunition for them abroad.
        On the other hand, the Red Army calmly uses foreign snipers, UAVs, thermal imagers, and even ship engines. smile
      3. anti-Semite
        anti-Semite 15 September 2015 18: 03 New
        +1
        as the experience of the Arab spring and other color revolutions showed, the country is not always killed from outside, the internal threat is no less significant and you need to have both the will and the strength to repeat the tiananmen if necessary
      4. serverny
        serverny 16 September 2015 02: 48 New
        -1
        The internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in terms of functions and weapons are 100% consistent with the National Guard in the light of democracy.
        According to your training manuals, is the USA supposed to poison the same stupid and far-fetched way (and even betraying outright lies as facts)?

        Be ashamed, sir.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. siberalt
      siberalt 15 September 2015 10: 42 New
      +5
      The system needs to be changed and the problem disappears. hi
    6. War and Peace
      War and Peace 15 September 2015 13: 31 New
      0
      As soon as money appears, all questions end.


      um, it seems right, but for example, in Russia, microelectronics have been killed. Mikron, Angstrom are moving, what they are doing there, what they are buying, there are conversations that go to 90nm and even 65nm. But on sale, as there were no our computers, it is not and most likely will NOT. And why? KILLED THE SCHOOL. The shots, which should be prepared for decades, the traditions, which should be passed from generation to generation, all this is destroyed.
      That is why, when Putin quarreled with the West and turned to China, it says one thing Russia is not an independent state and will always depend on either the West or China, there is always someone to take care of and even BIG MONEY doesn’t decide EVERYTHING ...
    7. The comment was deleted.
  2. Oleg-Olegovich
    Oleg-Olegovich 15 September 2015 07: 00 New
    +6
    We arm everyone around us ... except ourselves ...
  3. Magic archer
    Magic archer 15 September 2015 07: 06 New
    +7
    In what century I agree with Oleg ...
    Talk that the loss of the Nikolaev shipyard put an end to the construction of full-fledged aircraft carriers, an empty talk. With stable funding, all our shipbuilders can prove it. I hope the situation will change for the better sad
    1. piedmouth
      piedmouth 16 September 2015 00: 41 New
      +1
      Please note that Vikramaditya was not built, but modernized, albeit with a restructuring of the nasal structures. The Black Sea Plant (Nikolaev) had the capacity to build ships of such a displacement. It’s really difficult to build aircraft carriers at the Leningrad and Northern shipyards.
  4. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 15 September 2015 07: 08 New
    +8
    Now Kaptsov has raised an important and at the same time painful topic of our attitude to the existing state of things! A plus!
    The Soviet system of GOSTs has sunk into oblivion, and the attitude to what we are doing for ourselves. Together with jeans and “Snickers,” a different attitude towards society and a fundamental change in commodity-money relations within this society came. Which makes a mark on our entire life today. In addition to money, there were practically no motivators left to raise the production culture, even what we needed ... The trouble is ... what
    And an attempt to change the existing capital-based system will have the strongest opposition from those who have these same capitals. So, from now on everything will be done with us through the place that is intended for seating ... hi
  5. Alex_59
    Alex_59 15 September 2015 07: 10 New
    +8
    Our SHA can be divided into two categories. The former retained the ability to work quickly and clearly (if there is an incentive). The second either died officially, or they pretend that they are alive, but really are already dead. Alive, this is undoubtedly the NSR, Yantar, LAO, Zelenodolsk, and a trifle like the Sredne-Nevsky or Rybinsk plants. The factory in Petrozavodsk (officially), in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, Krasnoye Sormovo died (does something, but the pace is not the same and it seems to be barely surviving). A separate line is the North Shipyard. It seems to be alive, but the timelines for the construction of ships in Komsomolsk indicate that there are either saboteurs sitting there, or lazy people, or the plant is also almost dead. And so, when Oleg Kaptsov writes not about battleships and armor, there is nothing to argue with.
    Quote: Vova.tobol
    The 956 project destroyers had Two helicopters in the hangar. The rest I just want to breathe! Alas, everything is true!
    Confused with 1155?
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 15 September 2015 09: 36 New
      +4
      Well, just a comparison of the Northern Shipyard and Amur NW is incorrect, here you are distorting, after the author. Recently, they managed to build 4 corvettes, starting with the head one. They built 1 and are building 3 of the 22350s frigates, surrendered the scout "Yuri Ivanov" and "Ivan Khurs" is under construction. As for the Vrashavianok, the author confuses them with the Halibut, which just modernize as much as possible. The other day with “Vladikavkaz” finished. And Varshavyanka is very successfully being built, just in the same 2 years for the Black Sea Fleet. The 4th should be delivered soon. With frigates 11356 the same thing - the average period of 4 years will be at Essen and Makarov. Grigorovich’s problems with the new heat exchangers turned out to be, and therefore the delay is associated with the replacement. According to the aircraft carrier - it was completed in 8 years, and not built starting with the bookmark. "Nakhimov" is also promised to radically modernize over 3 years, but this is not a construction from 0. The colors in the article are too thick
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 15 September 2015 10: 28 New
        +3
        877 has an extremely short modernization format.

        From the core.
        sonar complex - MGK-400.1;
        combat information management system - MVU-100EM;
        navigation complex - Andoga-M;
        rechargeable battery - AB476.

        Kaluga the head boat on the modernized design, even the possibility of firing Caliber (like 636 for example or Hindu) did not receive.
      2. Alex_59
        Alex_59 15 September 2015 10: 31 New
        +2
        I do not distort, I observe from the outside how the construction of buildings is going on. And the time from the bookmark to the delivery of the corvettes (CORVETS !!!) of the 20380 project at the Northern Shipyard scares me! 8 years - in the US, aircraft carriers are faster to collect. In Soviet times, a ship of similar dimensions surrendered in the 2-3 of the year.
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 15 September 2015 11: 43 New
          0
          Yes, but now they promise for 4 years - the project is already worked out. Although the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy reasonably demands to do it in 2-3 years. Let's see what’s next, the main thing is that the ships are being built and put into operation hi
  6. tlauicol
    tlauicol 15 September 2015 07: 11 New
    +2
    interesting analysis! "Capital" of Marx on the example of the military-industrial complex. Oleg hasn’t touched aviation yet!
  7. sergeyzzz
    sergeyzzz 15 September 2015 07: 13 New
    +3
    Evgeniy667b, it's not just about the leaders. Military acceptance at enterprises impedes progress significantly. While at least one unfortunate device is being upgraded, so many papers need to be issued .... They are trying to hack the initiative in the bud. Development with the boss takes 5-7 years, even of simple devices, when there are technical issues there for only 2-3 months.
  8. tlauicol
    tlauicol 15 September 2015 07: 18 New
    +2
    Talwar is a good frigate, but air defense is weak - a one-armed bandit is not the level of the 21st century
    1. Santa Fe
      15 September 2015 07: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Tlauicol
      one-armed bandit

      + 2 Chestnut

      By the way, the "one-armed bandit" is also not bad. This is a marine version of Buka, an excellent SAM
      with four backlight radars
      Quote: Tlauicol
      This is not the level of the 21 century

      and who better
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 15 September 2015 08: 14 New
        +2
        Well, these, for example. Calm-1: low rate of fire, limited angle, dead zone, one target, small ammunition - what's good? "Oliver Perry" practically
        1. Santa Fe
          15 September 2015 08: 24 New
          +1
          Quote: Tlauicol
          low rate of fire

          reload - 12 seconds

          in practice, it’s uncritical, they cannot beat by supersonic anti-ship missiles
          Quote: Tlauicol
          limited view, dead zone

          what other angle is there 4 transmitter across the horizon
          Quote: Tlauicol
          small ammunition

          24, the most for the frigate

          Formidedle in the photo does not have shock weapons and near missile defense, hat
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 15 September 2015 08: 45 New
            +2
            12 seconds is not half a second! and how many targets will he fire at the same time? a pair of subsonic anti-ship missiles from different directions will already become a problem, + the near dead zone for missiles will increase due to a reversal - for this they also put Chestnuts (also not an ice in comparison with small air defense systems in air defense systems, such as Barak and ESSM).
            I don’t call Formideable the best - but he will have more air defense
            1. Santa Fe
              15 September 2015 08: 56 New
              0
              Quote: Tlauicol
              and how many targets will he fire at the same time?

              Boeing will be brought down, and both

              Quote: Tlauicol
              a pair of subsonic anti-ship missiles from different directions will already become a problem, + the near dead zone for missiles will increase due to a reversal - for this, and Chestnuts put

              he answered))
              1. tlauicol
                tlauicol 15 September 2015 09: 35 New
                +1
                Literally: a one-armed bandit is not the level of the 21st century; Chestnuts are put (also not ice;
                Air defense is weak. 80s

                P.S. I did not set cons. The article is good, even optimistic
          2. Garris199
            Garris199 15 September 2015 20: 48 New
            0
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            24, the most for the frigate

            Calm-1 on frigates is usually 36 cells.
        2. Garris199
          Garris199 15 September 2015 19: 34 New
          0
          Quote: Tlauicol
          Calm-1: low rate of fire

          What are you talking about? Calm-1 with a vertical start fires every 2 seconds.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 16 September 2015 05: 19 New
            0
            we are talking about the beam Calm-1 (exp. Hurricane) in the Indians

            as for Shtil in VPU - not a single ship has been received with him yet, nothing to talk about
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 15 September 2015 21: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        and who better

        From Oleg Kuleshov.
        While the co-commentators of the new democratic and free country are carrying out large-scale construction of the ocean fleet, we are slowly engaged in the repair of the heavy nuclear missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov. Thanks to alexeyvvo, new information has appeared that can be combined with existing information. For less than 9 months posted information on the following agreements:
        1. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 15 September 2015 21: 06 New
          0
          I will continue:

          · Repair according to the results of fault detection and completion of equipment of turbo-charging units ТНА4-1 up to level ТНА4-1М - an agreement dated July 15.07.2015, 188 with OJSC Novik PG in the amount of 201 614.53 2017 rubles. for a period until November 31502710371 (purchase No. XNUMX)
          · Supply of a set of modified TNA4-1M turbocharging units - an agreement dated July 15.07.2015, 209 with Novik PG OJSC in the amount of 888 rubles. for the period until March 434.88 (purchase No. 2017)
          · Development of working design documentation, manufacture and testing of three high-pressure automated KVG 2MD boiler units - contract of 2015 with OJSC Special Design Bureau of Boiler Building with a period until November 2018 (stage of design and development documentation - July 2016, shipment of boilers without spare parts and accessories - January 2017) (purchase No. 31502714841)
          · Product? - An agreement dated 19.12.2014 with FSUE RNIIRS in the amount of 61 rubles. due in December 961 (purchase No. 561.11).
          · Complex 3M87-1F - an agreement with KBP OJSC dated 09.2015 for the amount of 3 rubles. for the period until July 477 [modification of ZRAK Cortic-M?]
          · Work on the completion of the design documentation, manufacturing, type testing and delivery of the product 5P-28 - an agreement dated February 12.02.2015, 652 with OJSC Taganrog Scientific Research Institute of Communications in the amount of 017 (previously the price was 044.43 million rubles) due in March 351,8. (purchase No. 2017) [electronic warfare complex TK-31502510738?]
          · GAS MG-757.3 - an agreement dated September 25.09.2014, 36 with ZAO Aquamarine in the amount of 007 432.00 2016 with a due date of December XNUMX.
          · Sigma-11442M system (updating documentation with the creation of a product modification for the Project 11442 ship, manufacturing of the product, type testing, delivery of the product and mock-ups) - an agreement with OAO Mars NPO for the amount of 1 rubles. for the period until September 038 [combat information management system] (purchase No. 783)
          · SEV and EC Gnome-2M-11442 - an agreement dated February 13.02.2015, 121 with OJSC NIIICHasprom for the amount of 922 rubles. for the period until December 345.77 [system of common time and reference frequencies] (purchase No. 2017)
          · Automated navigation and gyro stabilization complex Chardash 11442M - agreement dated 10.08.2015/928/462 with JSC Central Research Institute Delfin in the amount of 247.80 rubles. for the period until July 2017 (purchase 31502710630)
          · Finalization of working design documentation for the visual complex for take-off and landing of the “Deck-1-11442M” helicopter, manufacturing of the complex - an agreement dated June 25.06.2014, 132 with CJSC STC Alfa-M for the amount of 854 795.80 2017 rubles. for the period until March 31502510735 (purchase No. XNUMX)
          · A complex for providing short-range navigation and landing of V-7M helicopters - an agreement of 2015 with ZAO NIIIT-RK in the amount of 242 rubles. for the period until June 320 (purchase No. 799.22)
          · Delivery of Ilmen products [complex for the generation, conversion and transmission of information from the carrier-based aviation support system], GUVK [gyroscopic heading device] Development of design documentation - agreement with TsNII Elektribribor OJSC dated February 13.02.2015, 34 for the amount of 007 954.44 2016 rubles . with due date until December 31502531798 (purchase No. XNUMX)
          · Product UV-450 - an agreement dated September 01.09.2014, 38 with ZAO NPK Start for the amount of 852 664.66 2017 rubles. for the period until December XNUMX [small-sized multifunctional sighting and target designation sight]

          It is necessary to help a person with the site because it does a good job.
          http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/
    2. remy
      remy 15 September 2015 09: 22 New
      0
      Hindus are now building and operating project 15A / B destroyers based on our 1155.1
      . Severnaya Verf and arms manufacturers are working on technology there
      . We expect from NPO Saturn (Rybinsk) the production of turbines, both mid-flight and afterburners
      and start building such ships only in an upgrade!
      . 16 anti-ship missiles
      . 8 PLUR
      . 1 art 152 mm
      . 3 ZRAK
      . 64 SAM missiles - 200 km
      . 32 missile defense DB - 380 km / CD OBD - 2500 km
      . 8 TA Package-NK
      . 2 helicopters PL / RC
      - a total of 128 units of missile weapons. almost a cruiser with a displacement of 9 ct.
    3. donavi49
      donavi49 15 September 2015 10: 09 New
      +2
      Well now it’s difficult to determine what a frigate is - FREMM is a frigate here? It is one and a half times larger than 11356 (and the heavy version is generally 7000 tons against 4000) for a minute, but a frigate.

      The next question is what to measure, what are the main qualities for a frigate? They are all a little different.

      If we talk about today, then the same FREMM will be the best, simply because it is actually a destroyer, with the best existing REO, a balanced set of weapons, and excellent driving performance.

      If about weapons, then in the theory of 22350 - for 16 UKKS + 32 heavy missiles = again it is almost a destroyer. However, one must wait until all this works and is accepted by the fleet.

      If we compare the Indian 11356 with the brother of 054 (by the way, they initially looked at 11356 but with localization in China, and then thought and made their ship, together with the Northern PKB) = then in a modern battle, I would put it on the latter. And if you compare the already improved version with the same Calm-1 (which by the way were created with the money of the PLA, as well as the rocket for them), then already the Russian version (Admiral series).
  9. rosarioagro
    rosarioagro 15 September 2015 07: 33 New
    +1
    Infa flashed in the media that Ukraine was going to the Ukraine cruiser (I’m sorry for the tautology), it’s interesting if they really sell it, the Indians or Chinese will buy it and then they will ask the Russian Federation to modernize or the Russian Federation will be able to acquire it through third parties, does it need it? Once they tried to acquire it before the Ukrainian crisis, there they did not agree on the price
    1. Mera joota
      Mera joota 15 September 2015 07: 57 New
      +2
      Quote: rosarioagro
      it’s interesting if they really sell it, the Indians or the Chinese will buy it and then they will ask the Russian Federation to modernize or the Russian Federation will be able to acquire it through third parties, does it need it?

      A scenario with zero probability of execution. Nobody in the world needs Lobov as a cruiser, only for metal. Who needs technology of the 80s of the last century ...
    2. Kvazar
      Kvazar 15 September 2015 15: 42 New
      0
      They won’t buy 550km rockets there. What is prohibited for sale.
  10. Ilya77
    Ilya77 15 September 2015 07: 51 New
    0
    It is logical, where there is money and something needs to be done specifically, there will also be personnel, for example, in the same Sukhoi, designers have moved a lot from other design bureaus in the 90s. And there is no money - well, those who are either retired or cannot find anything new remain. does not have a special hard work.
  11. Mera joota
    Mera joota 15 September 2015 07: 54 New
    +1
    in our harsh country, a real aircraft carrier was built with a length of 283 meters and a displacement of 45 thousand tons!

    C'mon, what is this shipyard? Right from scratch with the formation of the housing, the installation of a power plant and the installation of all systems?
    With regards to the Talwar. The first three really did four years, but the second batch was delayed and the period from bookmark to transmission lasted for five years. So the farther from 1991, the longer the deadlines ...
    PS: I undoubtedly agree that the corruption component plays a crucial role in the construction of ships for our fleet, but the scandal involving the delay of Vikramaditya clearly shows that the type of customer does not have much influence on the time frame.
  12. Penzuck
    Penzuck 15 September 2015 08: 08 New
    -5
    What I learned from the article.
    1. RF CAN USE... - the thought is correct, I support.
    2. Russia is building for itself FEW.... - Come on. Do we want to conquer the whole world? Or you, authorsuper expert?
    3. The Russian Federation sells advanced, "nanotechnological" high-tech defense industry products recognized throughout the civilized world. - AND THIS IS GOOD. Or does the author suggest trading oil and firewood?
    4. RF allegedly does not control the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. - Bullshit! Poklep to the Accounts Chamber or the FSB?
    5. The budget is managed by "some green men from Mars" "Serdyukov-" Putin "". WHAT DO YOU NOT RELAX? Forget it!
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 September 2015 08: 53 New
      +7
      Quote: Penzuck
      RF is building a LITTLE for itself .... Come on. Do we want to conquer the whole world? Or are you, the author, a super expert?

      We take the first versions of our shipbuilding program on GPV up to 2020, we look at the actual implementation. Crying.
      Quote: Penzuck
      The Russian Federation sells advanced, "nanotechnological" high-tech defense industry products recognized throughout the civilized world. - AND THIS IS GOOD. Or does the author suggest trading oil and firewood?

      Firstly - no need for nanotechnology, it is forbidden to use foul language on the site if you did not know. Secondly, the author suggests accelerating the pace of ship delivery to the native Navy, no need to distort.
      Quote: Penzuck
      RF allegedly does not control the RF Ministry of Defense. - Bullshit! Poklep to the Accounts Chamber or the FSB?

      Yes to both of them laughing And the government besides laughing In essence, objections will be? Or the Accounts Chamber and the FSB are sacred cows? So let's sell them to India - not all the same, to sell oil and firewood, in the end laughing
      Quote: Penzuck
      The budget is managed by "some green men from Mars", "Serdyukov-Putin". WHAT DO YOU NOT RELAX? Forget it!

      Nope. Whoever remembers the old, that eye is gone, and whoever forgets - both.
      1. Penzuck
        Penzuck 15 September 2015 11: 05 New
        -5
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        We take the first versions of our shipbuilding program on GPV up to 2020, we look at the actual implementation. Crying.

        And what? SANCTIONS SEE? But they are. SAME GLASSES ...
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Secondly, the author suggests accelerating the pace of ship delivery to the native Navy, no need to distort.

        Due to what resources to accelerate? Is there a RECIPE?(netuti). Do you see the gap in cooperation with Ukraine? These are thousands of suppliers. THOUSAND CARL. To “speed up” something needs to be “slowed down". And that means refusal of export. - Lack of currency and cabzda (in Russian mastday) to the financial system of the Russian Federation, that spanks you personally.
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Yes to both of them
        What's the point? They are working quite well for themselves with a minus ... What is the author (and personal traction) really nada? Public execution of FSB agents on Red Square?

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Whoever remembers the old, that eye is gone, and whoever forgets - both.

        Are you (and the author) generally aware of the "old"? To remember him? Are you aware that the "weakness" of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is "disinfectant"? Are you aware that this is a "Provocation"? And do not treat about the "family" and "oligarch Putin" - stop chewing a thousand times chewed, and a hundred times processed.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Mera joota
          Mera joota 15 September 2015 13: 27 New
          -1
          Quote: Penzuck
          And what? SANCTIONS SEE? But they are. SAME GLASSES ...

          Did someone leave the stall open?
          1. Penzuck
            Penzuck 15 September 2015 13: 59 New
            -1
            Quote: Mera Joota
            Did someone leave the stall open?

            remove the ways that we are tender ... Crying aside, and not getting into the conversation adult uncle.
        3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 September 2015 14: 13 New
          +3
          Quote: Penzuck
          And what?

          Oh, in room No.6 we’ve spent the Internet.
          Quote: Penzuck
          SANCTIONS SEE? But they are. SAME GLASSES ...

          My "friend", you would have determined the testimony. When the author writes that the shipments for the Russian Navy are too small, you declare
          Quote: Penzuck
          The Russian Federation is building a LITTLE for itself .... - Come on. Do we want to conquer the whole world?

          Those. in your opinion we no longer need. And when I remind you of the GPV-2020, for some reason you don’t write “and so enough!”, You suddenly start broadcasting something about sanctions there. So you’ve already decided - either it’s ENOUGH what the fleet receives (and the GPV-2020 program in the fleet part we don’t need and that we disrupt it, nonsense), or we don’t have enough supplies today, then explain what happiness you wrote, that we have enough ships.
          Quote: Penzuck
          Due to what resources to accelerate? Is there a RECIPE? (Netuti).

          The recipe has been known since tsarist times - the development of the DOMESTIC industry and not the course towards integration with the West and the promotion of import dependence in the most important defense industries. Since the year 2000 (when Putin became president), it has long been possible to do so. But no - we’d better push the billions into the Alimpiads and build skolkovo.
          Quote: Penzuck
          Why is the author (and personal traction) really nada?

          The effective operation of the military-industrial complex.
          Quote: Penzuck
          Are you (and the author) generally aware of the "old"? To remember him? Are you aware that the "weakness" of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is "disinfectant"?

          Delirium
          1. Penzuck
            Penzuck 15 September 2015 15: 17 New
            -5
            I wanted to dash off killing in 1500 characters but I will limit myself: Example. ALLOW
            Vagonich rivets 3000 Armata tanks a year, however, for peacetime, 3000 tanks with a certain safety factor are enough. 2011 to 2020. GPV. And the new edition takes into account the need for ARMATE, however, we reduce the stock of stock due to lack of money and extend it to 3 of the year. (3000-300) / 3 = 900.
            Vagonich says - little plant will be closed. He is told by MO: There is no bazaar. Sell ​​2100 Tagil tanks per year China india? China: What the bullshit? We want fittings. The result is that we make E-mail to China more than we do to ourselves an ordinary Armata.
            Bottom line: The plant was saved, in the army of the Russian Federation enough tanks are budgeted. ACCESS, Boy?
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 September 2015 16: 03 New
              +3
              Quote: Penzuck
              I wanted to roll murder in 1500 characters

              But the gurney is not mature enough laughing
              You tell me after all, do we need the number of ships that was included in the GPV-2020, or is it not necessary? So say it, or:
              "The implementation of the GPV program was archival and architects, but we did not manage."
              or:
              "The program GPV-2020 was invented by dunce and inadequate, we do not need so many ships"
              And when you decide what is right, then you and I will return to your “example”.
              Quote: Penzuck
              Vagonich rivets 3000 Armata tanks a year, however, for peacetime, 3000 tanks with a certain safety factor are enough. 2011 to 2020. GPV. And the new edition takes into account the need for ARMATE, however, we reduce the stock of stock due to lack of money and extend it to 3 of the year. (3000-300) /3=900. Wagoner says - little plant will be closed. He is told by MO: There is no bazaar. Sell ​​2100 Tagil tanks per year China india? China: What the bullshit? We want fittings. The result is we make fittings in China more than we do for ourselves ordinary Armata

              Suppose everything is right, well, one to one as you wrote. And then these same 3 years go by and it turns out that 6300 Armata E tanks were made from 7300 Armatae tanks for China and India (because the Chinese liked the tank and they still ordered), and from 2700 Armats, which were supposed to go into service of their own aircraft, they made 950 cars - the rest for a number of reasons (There are no engineers left in the country, the West is strangling with sanctions, no one wants to work at the factory, the machine tool park is dead, Ukraine, the female dog does not supply components laughing ) failed to produce.
              And then Oleg Kaptsov comes and asks - but let me !!! Why would 7 300 tanks for foreign friends be done, and neither sanctions nor machine tools would hinder, but for their own weapons program was disrupted ?!
              And here you come, all in white, and you say to Oleg: “Why do we need 2700 Armat, we and 950 are enough, you, megaexpert, understand nothing!” wassat
              1. Penzuck
                Penzuck 16 September 2015 07: 14 New
                -2
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Tell me all the same, we need the number of ships that was laid down in the GPV-2020,

                Is he drunk?
                A <B <C <D (1)
                Minimum A.
                They laid S. but in view of the sanctions ...
                Laid B. If B> A from the condition (1)? then the equipment we have is ENOUGH enough.
                We do not have the USSR, and there is no sense in doing D, but it is necessary. And on the other hand, if you slow down exports, that is (DB) or (DC), then production volumes will decrease, which will lead to the loss of engineering and working personnel, just the same, if there is order D, then the plant can invest in its modernization as at the USSR.
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                but for their own weapons program foiled ?!

                If the GPN program 2011-2020 is disrupted ... then the actions of the authorities would be appropriate.
                Or your principle: If hail fell somewhere?
                1. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  13. Alex_59
    Alex_59 15 September 2015 08: 18 New
    +2
    Quote: Mera Joota
    in our harsh country, a real aircraft carrier was built with a length of 283 meters and a displacement of 45 thousand tons!

    C'mon, what is this shipyard? Right from scratch with the formation of the housing, the installation of a power plant and the installation of all systems?
    On the NSR. Not from scratch, of course, but the depth of modernization is comparable to the volume of construction from scratch. The NSR is generally a super-factory, in Soviet times the nuclear submarines baked at such a pace that if instead of the nuclear submarines they were tasked with building nuclear aircraft carriers, I think he would build them at a pace greater than the Newport News Shipbuilding. And if we get to the construction of an aircraft carrier, I think it will be built on the NSR, there are simply no such metal processing facilities and workshop sizes anywhere, plus there is room for building new facilities around the plant. This is not a Northern shipyard or LAO squeezed by the historical building of St. Petersburg.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 September 2015 15: 06 New
      0
      Quote: Alex_59
      SMP is generally a super-factory; in Soviet times, the submarine baked at that rate

      Year from bookmark to surrender to the fleet. Tell someone - they won’t believe ... but it WAS.
    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 September 2015 15: 06 New
      +2
      Quote: Alex_59
      SMP is generally a super-factory; in Soviet times, the submarine baked at that rate

      Year from bookmark to surrender to the fleet. Tell someone - they won’t believe ... but it WAS.
  14. oracul
    oracul 15 September 2015 09: 07 New
    +1
    The issue of financing for the Navy is particularly acute, given the long construction period of the ships. In the 90s, they were "burning" on the fact that financing was provided with a lag behind inflation. As a result, the same NSR and Zvyozdochka were twisted as best as they could up to commercial loans. And this, as you know, is very expensive. Moreover, the money of the Moscow Region, for example, reached the NSR, if memory serves, through the bank of MENATEP, Mr. Khodorkovsky, who managed to play on the currency exchange for a month. I think that this is happening today. Outwardly, nothing personal, just a business. But in fact, a direct attempt to torpedo the modernization of the army and navy. Russia is not yet ready for a sharp confrontation with the Anglo-Saxons, it is necessary to maneuver. But otherwise, in market conditions and given the fact that the management system at all levels is packed with business people who live their own interests. What has been done over the course of a quarter of a century cannot be corrected overnight, all the more without reliance on a really functioning party of the people, and not on United Russia, which in its mass represents a symbiosis of officials of all ranks and business. It was a good idea for ONF, but look at how many familiar odious people like Dvorkovich were among the participants in its forums. By their presence they impede a good idea.
  15. aleksklo
    aleksklo 15 September 2015 09: 50 New
    +2
    Good article. In general, everything is written correctly.
  16. ziama
    ziama 15 September 2015 10: 03 New
    +6
    Forgot to mention about Cheetah 3.9 patrol ship project 11661. For the Vietnamese Navy, 2 of them were made, and 2 more are being built.
  17. Alex_59
    Alex_59 15 September 2015 10: 25 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Penzuck
    RF is building a LITTLE for itself .... Come on. Do we want to conquer the whole world? Or are you, the author, a super expert?

    We take the first versions of our shipbuilding program on GPV up to 2020, we look at the actual implementation. Crying.
    Duck and in Soviet times it was deplorable. For example, ships 1134-1134А-1134Б planned around 50. 956 destroyers are also something around 50. The result very rarely reached 50% of the plan.
  18. qwert
    qwert 15 September 2015 10: 29 New
    +2
    Quote: aleksklo
    Good article. In general, everything is written correctly.

    Oleg moved away from his corporate articles causing heated debate. Even a little boring smile hi
    But in general, the article is correct. Arming China, forgetting to yourself, is like mice feeding a cat.
    1. piedmouth
      piedmouth 16 September 2015 00: 59 New
      0
      in the two thousandths they made the right decision - to give the outdated pr965 to the Chinese, and thank God they completed the work on time, plus they earned, plus they saved the construction they had begun from cutting into scrap metal, plus they kept production, personnel, etc. Why be sad? The number and timing of the construction of new ships is very dependent on economic issues (such as oil prices, etc.) so the time is unfavorable, and all sorts of minor dirty tricks such as non-delivery of turbines due to sanctions also do their job.
  19. Anton Gavrilov
    Anton Gavrilov 15 September 2015 10: 33 New
    +4
    It is not written correctly here, we now have a shortage of capacities, and resources, and technologies, and personnel.

    There are a lot of engineers coming out now? Are we getting a lot of shipbuilders? Communicate with people from the industry and they will tell you: people (of all qualifications), especially literate, and those who are sick are lacking like air.

    At the expense of technology, the author is aware that we have ALL control panels, for ALL warships, starting with Buyans, ending with Boreas and Ash-trees, NPO Aurora are manufactured, where the TAIWAN ELEMENT BASE is used, AND THEIR DISPLAYS?

    I will not say anything about the elemental base for a number of other components, but fortunately, not all electronics are based on a foreign base ... But its very significant part, alas ...

    In the know, sho NO NORMAL DIESELS, because Kolomenskie is still frankly GU (shit is dull if someone does not know). On 22350 the GES did not show itself badly, the ship even exceeded the maximum speed a little, but the diesel engines showed themselves there .... About 20380 (the same diesel), on which so many emergency situations have happened lately and somehow I don’t want to talk. That’s why they started buying MTU diesel engines for their ships, it’s a pity that the chest was covered up, but there was nothing to be done.

    I think everyone knows about gas turbines and gearboxes for them, which were made in Nikolaev. But then okay, we will figure it out. But only for this second the fact is, WE DO NOT MAKE GTU ourselves.

    At the expense of resources, are we so rich in steel? Are they so efficiently spending what they emit?

    And here it’s not a problem, but a problem! And there are a lot of problems that come from completely different sectors, from education, since most of the graduates go to your own discretion (lawyers, etc.), where I also mistakenly went ... But I left I’ll try to start everything in shipbuilding. And they go a lot because they teach things like that, and the prestige of the work is corresponding, though the situation has begun to change recently with prestige.

    The problem is with leading cadres, with cities where many enterprises are located, etc.
    1. Penzuck
      Penzuck 15 September 2015 11: 24 New
      -4
      In general, I agree with you ... However, without a prescription for the treatment of all the stocks, you, like the author, have dumb fatalism and a hopeless future for the Russian Federation with faint glimpses in the dark kingdom.
      IMHO.
      1. Anton Gavrilov
        Anton Gavrilov 15 September 2015 12: 16 New
        +1
        There is an adequate view of things, not fatalism!

        And why is my opinion stupid then? By the fact that a more or less real situation shows? By the fact that I do not yell at the hearing-the MOST ALL-ELECTING ANALOGUES OF ALL HEAVY-WATER LEFT ALL-REMARKABLE
        WELL-PROBLEM ??

        The glimpses are not barely distinguishable, they are. But the fact of the matter is that they are glimpses for now, and although we gradually crawl out of the ass that was earlier, everything could be better than now, but much better. But alas, not It came out for various reasons, mainly because of management. But basically, it was only because of this that it essentially came out because of errors in state policy. Here you have education, social policy, and so on, everything is interconnected and not only in this industry.
        1. Penzuck
          Penzuck 15 September 2015 12: 42 New
          0
          Quote: Anton Gavrilov
          And why is my opinion stupid then?

          “I do not agree - criticize, criticize - offer, offer - do, do - answer!” S.P. Korolev
          Quote: Anton Gavrilov
          There is an adequate view of things
          - I repeat you are right.
          Quote: Anton Gavrilov
          Glimpses are not barely distinguishable, they are.

          So where are you in the comments?
          Quote: Anton Gavrilov
          though with prestige the situation has recently begun to change.

          JUST? WHERE IS POSITIVE?
          ONE NEGATIVE, and when one negative - THIS IS A STUPID FATALISM AND PESSIMISM. WHERE ARE YOUR SUGGESTIONS? DOES IT CHANGE?
          1. Anton Gavrilov
            Anton Gavrilov 15 September 2015 14: 02 New
            +1
            And the comment was not about glimpses! Why should they be in every comment?

            The positive thing is that we are generally building something. And we are handing over something at least somehow in surface shipbuilding.

            In the underwater, everything is much better, but not perfect. We retained the competence to create the most complex, and one of the most complex submarines in the world, the 955A and 885M projects, a confirmation of this. And we are building all this in actually adequate terms, consider that that the ships are extremely complex and expensive (885M is much more difficult to build and indeed the same Virginia, Estuites and barracudas under construction).

            Some of the best-selling nuclear submarines in the world are also being built with us, and are selling well. But here the main problem is that there is no VNEU, and it will appear in series only in the 20 year, especially since there are big problems when testing VNEU at the stand have arisen with us.

            Well, the positive on the surface is that there are a lot of orders, and there is some kind of work, and orders are transferred from export from time to time, not as much as we would like, but still.

            With the same turbines and gearboxes they will certainly solve the problem, but it will take time of course.

            Here is a definite positive for you.
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. strannik1985
    strannik1985 15 September 2015 11: 03 New
    +2
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Quote: Evgeniy667b
    Enough of the cops is more important !!!

    Today, the internal troops of Russia are a powerful paramilitary formation. Modern internal troops are fully motorized, operational (motorized rifle) units have armored vehicles. Internal troops have their own aviation, artillery, engineering, naval units.

    Excuse me, but have you lived in the last 20-25 years?
    Incidentally, the war was on the territory of the Russian Federation, it was fought by citizens of the Russian Federation, albeit with foreign assistance. What forces should have been given priority in the face of chronic underfunding of the 90s?
    Does the experience of two Chechen companies, the experience of conflicts in the USSR in the late 80s / early 90s, the experience of "color revolutions" in a number of countries teach nothing?
    1. Evgeniy667b
      Evgeniy667b 15 September 2015 17: 16 New
      0
      The issue is not priorities. The “steering team” was initially focused on their personal interests, and not on Russia as a whole. Turning it into a raw materials appendage is all links in one chain. The EBN group undermined the industry, but its successors went even further ahead, methodically clearing everything that remained.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  22. xomaNN
    xomaNN 15 September 2015 13: 18 New
    +1
    I agree with the author that the level of the Soviet ship industry in the early 80s of the Russian Federation has not reached. At that glorious time, we had to be with our "tricky" system both on the ships of the Northern Fleet and the Baltic Fleet, and in shipyards of the NSR, etc. But then, uk were also common. shipbuilding Nikolaev and Kherson, and the Far Eastern shipbuilding industry were afloat. Now, even in a deplorable state, the shipyards of Crimea have returned.

    FRAMES !!! Money and time are needed. But a positive trend is evident. "You won’t drink school!" bully
  23. Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 15 September 2015 13: 50 New
    +1
    The main problem in the construction period is precisely because of this, the Algerians abandoned the export version of the corvette, etc. 20380-project 20382 "Tiger" and preferred the Chinese, because the construction period of the corvette for our Navy is 7-8 years, and the Chinese for Algerians having signed a contract on the construction of three corvettes of the C28 project in March 2012 of the year, the first was launched on August 16 of the year 2014. The head corvette was supposed to be delivered to Algeria via 38 months after the day of signing the contract (that is, in May 2015 of the year), and the remaining two — presumably, with an interval of six months each — thus, it seems, the implementation of the contract comes with some delay. To date, the second and third Cornells of the C28 project with Alternate 921 (launched 6 February 2015 of the year) and 922 (Launched on 31 July 2015) under construction for Algeria are under construction at Hudong Shipyard afloat.

    For the time being we build 2 TFR pr. 1166.1 for Vietnam (approximate deadline for 2017 and 2018) from large ships, and 2 diesel submarines 636.1 HQ-186 Khánh Hòa ("Khanh Hoa") laid 01.07.2013, launched on XUM XUM , 28.12.2014 June, sea trials began. The approximate date of the transfer of 8-2015 and HQ-2016 Bà Rịa – Vũng Tàu (“Vung Tau”) was laid down by 187, the approximate term is 28.05.2014-2015.

    Also, under our license, the Vietnamese build the RCA Ave. 1241.8 with the 8 th anti-ship missile X-35 Uran. However, there are problems here, as the Vietnamese have already ordered the 4 of the Dutch corvettes of the Sigma 9814 project, of which the first two will be built in Holland, and two in Vietnam.
    Algeria also ordered 2 DEPL pr. 636.1 (tentative transfer date 2018 year)
    From the CIS countries, Kazakhstan planned to purchase 6 RTOs of the 21632 Avenue Tornado, but the deal did not seem to take place. Kazakhstan also ordered the 2 raid minesweeper pr. 10750E. The first is laid 31.07. 2014 of the year. Delivery is planned for 2015. The second is laid in 2014.

    So not much ...
  24. Denis_469
    Denis_469 15 September 2015 14: 59 New
    +4
    Oleg - nothing will change with us while maintaining the current system and a negative personnel selection system. I often write about this on my website. Ask yourself: who of those with earnings is now able to issue a competent tactical and technical task for a new submarine for example? How was Severodvinsk created? The United States has boats with on-board torpedo tubes, a ball, and a missile launcher. So we need. That's the whole tale about design. There was no alleged TTZ for the boat at all. There was nothing at all for the design, except for the Wishlist of our military oaks to do the same as the Americans. It’s about now happening in Russia the same thing as in Saudi Arabia, where there is a monarch and 2 of his sons. And if 1 son says: I want 100 of these tanks, then they will be bought right there. And no TTZ for equipment at all. And what can be done normally without TTZ? Nothing. What will be built without TTZ, just at the hotel level, like with Severodvinsk, will be built for a long, expensive and constantly remodeled. Until something digestible comes out of the Wishlist. How is the wedge designed now? In the same way: only the hotel fleet and industry. And that’s it. There is no tactical and technical task for the boat. The boat is made so that there is an air-independent power unit. But no one was interested in the questions: in what areas will the boat operate? What will be her goals? On land and on and under water. How serial should the boat be? How suitable will the boat be for use by conscripts during the war? What should be the tasks of the boat? Etc. There was nothing like this in nature. The fleet just said that he needed a boat with an air-independent power plant. The industry decided to do something with it. Focusing on how others have. At the same time, the proms and the military are not asked by "stupid" questions like those listed by me. What for them to think? Here I want and that's it. The result is something like “Lada”, which is why that “Kalina” has several projects. Since fleet command is changing and fleet Wishlist are changing as they are being designed. Since there is no TTZ for the boat and it is done under Wishlist, then due to a change in Wishlist, the project has to be redone. If anyone remembers the old news many years ago, then they wanted to lay down the Kalina head office in 2016. Does someone believe that it will be laid? What normal can be built with such a military and such an industry? And especially with such a leadership of the country? Now the situation is in the early 1930s, when Stalin convened a meeting of comflots and promos and posed a simple question for them: tell me - what do you need from technology? All comflots quarreled among themselves. And then still everyone ran into industry. The meeting ended with the words of Stalin: "As I see it, you yourself do not know what you need. Therefore, I will decide."
  25. Alex_59
    Alex_59 15 September 2015 15: 13 New
    +5
    Quote: Denis_469
    Oleg - nothing will change with us while maintaining the current system and a negative personnel selection system. I often write about this on my website. Ask yourself: who of those with earnings is now able to issue a competent tactical and technical task for a new submarine for example? How was Severodvinsk created? The United States has boats with on-board torpedo tubes, a ball, and a missile launcher. So we need. That's the whole tale about design. There was no alleged TTZ for the boat at all. There was nothing at all for the design, except for the Wishlist of our military oaks to do the same as the Americans.
    The funny thing about your post is know what? The fact that after the change of the “current system and the negative personnel selection system” nothing will change. Do you know why? And because only in the twentieth century, this system and the personnel selection system have been changed many times. And still, on the whole, an order was formed - do not be smart, do as in / country name / - substitute the naval leader at the time of formulation. In Soviet times, orders were also formed incomprehensibly on the basis of what and how. What turned out to be built, then exploited. And in imperial times it was like that. Maybe this is not the worst, you can still live with it. Now we have the main problem - build at least something, at least 20380 more, at least 22350 - so that you don’t stay with your bare back to 2030 when Admiral Chabanenko with Undaunted and Kuzey are written off.
  26. Denis_469
    Denis_469 15 September 2015 15: 54 New
    0
    Quote: Alex_59
    Do you know why? And because only in the twentieth century, this system and personnel selection system have been changed many times. And still, on the whole, an order was formed - do not be smart, do as in / country name / - substitute the naval leader at the time of formulation. In Soviet times, orders were also formed incomprehensibly on the basis of what and how.

    In terms of submarines, under Stalin, design without TTZ was prohibited at all. All pre-war Soviet submarines, like 611/613, had TTZ for their design. Therefore, after everyone from the heads of departments and above is thrown out into the street, all subsequent ones will know that before doing something, you yourself need to understand what you want to do. And the rhythmic pre-war program for building the fleet was such only because Stalin was able to put people in the right places without experience, but with knowledge.
    1. Anton Gavrilov
      Anton Gavrilov 15 September 2015 20: 49 New
      0
      For reference, the 885 project TTZ was, and more than concrete. And the fact that our designers have applied a number of technical solutions similar to the American is not a reason to breed a panic here.
      1. Denis_469
        Denis_469 15 September 2015 21: 05 New
        -1
        Also for reference: what you call TTZ is actually Wishlist and corresponded more than once or twice.
        And I don’t panic - I just explain the current situation. And I have been following the development of 885 since 1991, when urine hit our fighters with urine.
        1. Anton Gavrilov
          Anton Gavrilov 15 September 2015 21: 13 New
          -1
          Mdya ... Apparently, some people write the truth about you, "an inadequate storyteller," and for some time I still thought it was normal. I think there’s nothing more to say.
          1. Denis_469
            Denis_469 15 September 2015 22: 46 New
            -1
            You mean our mentally incomplete military like Mina? I understand that you know less - sleep better ... this is not treated.
  27. Foxmara
    Foxmara 15 September 2015 17: 20 New
    0
    Well, what are you warm with a soft put, the author ?? Modernization and construction are not the same thing. For modernization the Nikolaev ferf is not necessary and there is nothing more to modernize, incl. the second aircraft carrier for free can not be built. It is necessary to return it, the darling back, the Nikolaev shipyard ...
    1. piedmouth
      piedmouth 16 September 2015 01: 06 New
      0
      Quote: Foxmara
      It is necessary to return it, the darling back, the Nikolaev shipyard ...

      There is none already cryingBy the way, a Russian businessman was bought. Two cranes left that can not be dismantled, because they are too big laughing
  28. strannik1985
    strannik1985 15 September 2015 17: 38 New
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

    In fact, this description of explosives most likely refers to the 90th. Then, under Boris Alcoholic, with his system of checks and balances a-la Afghanistan under Najib, the BB really became the second army, with its artillery, armor (up to T-62), the air force and air defense.
    With GDP, explosives began to be systematically cut, reducing the "army" component. So, for example, in ODON in 2004, the otb. As a result, now the “armor” of the explosives is, at best, the BMP-2. AND hospital average - this is BTR-8 * of various modifications, "tigers" and a whole brood of armored trucks - from artisanal crafts to special BA.
    The artillery of the explosives was also nerfed - the ZU-23 and 82-mm mortars remained.
    :

    Because the relatively large, well-organized enemy that possessed all types of weapons, including tanks and aircraft, ended up inside the country, respectively, the need for heavy weapons for explosives disappeared.
  29. IAlex
    IAlex 16 September 2015 02: 18 New
    0
    Yes, yes, try to buy whatever you want ... Build a new one or update the fundamental difference. Export projects are always simply technologically simpler and cheaper than for the Moscow Region. The only thing that is written in the article is theft, because at the enterprise there are 3-4 bookkeeping departments, and not only the director is robbing, but he himself is robbed of everything as well as the chiefs / heads of departments and divisions. Moreover, the father of Russian democracy and especially close to his majesty is quite happy with everything. T.ch. we sit quietly on ...
  30. unsermann
    unsermann 16 September 2015 06: 14 New
    +1
    Modernization of "Gorshkov" cost 2 billion. And the Sochi sawing - 50 billion !!! Here is the answer to you, how many Vikramadities for our fleet could be built ... But, you see, the priorities of our e-mail are different ...
  31. strannik1985
    strannik1985 16 September 2015 07: 31 New
    0
    Quote: serverny
    The internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in terms of functions and weapons are 100% consistent with the National Guard in the light of democracy.
    According to your training manuals, is the USA supposed to poison the same stupid and far-fetched way (and even betraying outright lies as facts)?

    Be ashamed, sir.

    What???
    The U.S. NG includes infantry divisions for tasks, OSH, and armaments that are completely similar to the divisions of the US regular troops, the NGs are used to the full abroad, most of the personnel are reservists, and not military units of contract and urgent service as in the Russian Interior Ministry.
    NG performs, inter alia, similar functions to combat riots within the country, but there is no need to talk about 100% compliance with tasks and weapons.
  32. water
    water 16 September 2015 10: 36 New
    +3
    The article is generally correct. But, very superficial. Yes, indeed, if there is money, then all issues are resolved. But the author unfortunately does not indicate where these questions arise. Although, the problem has long been identified and is called import substitution! Rather - the lack thereof! Indeed, for a ship under construction for export, any foreign saturation is suitable, any practical things that meet the requirements of the project and have a foreign quality certificate. They are purchased and put to order. For orders of the Russian Navy, things are somewhat more complicated - only products recognized in Russia should be put here. Otherwise, friction with the airspace will begin. So they order, here they wait, here they put what they manufactured at our factories. And they made the same thing as in the days of my youth: if the shut-off valve, then kilograms per 30 weighing .... I believe that the need has long been ripe for “shaking up” both Rosregister, and Gostekhnadzor, and the VP. Shake and puzzle the adaptation of foreign technical safety requirements to our Russian conditions. Yes, and, as was rightly noted here in the discussions, certification of our products needs to be simplified and cheapened.
  33. Tishka
    Tishka 16 September 2015 16: 11 New
    0
    It's simple, the government, for the first 2 terms of office, was not concerned about rearmament when no one tried to take away the oil and gas pipe! As soon as such a prospect loomed on the horizon, they urgently engaged in rearmament, hence the increase in the internal troops and their re-equipment, both of the internal troops and the army, are ready to bite anyone who encroaches on their property, both from outside and inside the country! But the defense of the Motherland is not included in the plans, therefore it is unfinished, for them, the Motherland is where they have capital, where their real estate, children and families! And as usual they don’t reach the people, there’s no hands, then money, and indeed, the salvation of a drowning man, the work of the drowning man himself! It is necessary to change the system, to the popular one, then smart heads will appear, and hands that will build everything!
  34. Fardytsfut
    Fardytsfut 17 September 2015 08: 53 New
    0
    cheers, cheers ... waited

    ---

    Cinema Science Fiction as well
  35. Stenlisfut
    Stenlisfut 17 September 2015 11: 30 New
    0
    damn rzhachno)))

    ---

    Cinema Erotic film as well
  36. Terencsfut
    Terencsfut 17 September 2015 12: 47 New
    0
    You obviously made a mistake

    ---

    Cinema Military as well
  37. kravch67k
    kravch67k 17 September 2015 19: 16 New
    0
    There was enough money for two MENSTRUALs (with the military doctrine of Russia, they are not needed at all), there is NO MONEY for repair and modernization of the BDK pr.1171 and 1174 (the most relevant for the MP). What else to talk about.
  38. van zai
    van zai 21 September 2015 13: 47 New
    0
    The article is a fat plus! In the words of Zadornov: Everything is in the zone, all because of “grandmas”. Build for export - you are always welcome, but for yourself we’ll buy better overseas yachts. After all, they (the yachts) at the top need more than some warships. laughing