Military Review

The new gun for the Defense Ministry will begin to experience this year

99
Testing of the latest gun chambered for 9x21 mm, developed by Klimov TsNIITOCHMASH, will begin this year, reports MIC with reference to a source in the Ministry of Defense.


The new gun for the Defense Ministry will begin to experience this year


“The gun is already fully prepared. It is planned that we will complete all of his tests before the end of 2016. After that, a decision will be made on its adoption, ”said the source.

He noted that “a rather rare cartridge 9x21mm, featuring enhanced armor penetration, is used in the new pistol.” Under this cartridge currently only one pistol is manufactured - CP-1 (also known as Serdyukov pistol). He is in service in the special forces of a number of law enforcement agencies.

According to the source, “a new army pistol is not a modernization of the CP-1, but a completely new development”.

He explained that "CP-1 has a flaw, it is quite strong, as they say," throws up "when fired, but thanks to new technical solutions, TsNIITOCHMASH was able to solve this problem."
Photos used:
http://vpk-news.ru/
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  1. Enot_33
    Enot_33 10 September 2015 15: 33 New
    +11
    It is high time. PM is suitable only for the police and similar structures. The army needs something new and more perfect.
    1. Reserve officer
      Reserve officer 10 September 2015 15: 40 New
      +22
      “The gun is completely ready. It is planned that we will complete all of his tests before the end of the 2016 year. After which a decision will be made on its adoption "

      Somehow it hurts confidently and categorically. Most recently, there was an article in the VO about the Kalashnikov Concern’s pistol of the 9x19mm caliber PL-14 (Lebedev Pistol). Also almost ready.
      And if you recall other designs?
      Many excellent developments have not been adopted. So wait and see.
      1. inkass_98
        inkass_98 10 September 2015 16: 00 New
        +47
        So is that Gyurza or what? She is certainly ready for a long time, years 15 as laughing . The patron of her native, 9x21. Well, find me ten differences of the new development from the old. The photo below is just "Gyurza".
        1. Uncle
          Uncle 10 September 2015 16: 13 New
          +17
          Quote: inkass_98
          Well, find me ten differences
          I did not find ten, but there is one: the brand of the plant on the handle.
        2. vkl-47
          vkl-47 10 September 2015 16: 15 New
          +7
          Yes, no gyurza will be introduced. The photos showed since the throne is the same
          Everyone is aware that they still did 90
          1. Grandfather Luka
            Grandfather Luka 10 September 2015 18: 19 New
            +6
            Gyurza was already at the councils. In the time of Andropov, the Chekists were armed. There was another case, the committee members with garbage, in Moscow, it seems, fired, right at the forecourt, neponyachka came out from them. So the Chekists were just armed with these things, unfortunately cops.
    2. VP
      VP 10 September 2015 15: 45 New
      +17
      And what's the difference to an army officer what is his gun?
      They don’t go on the attack with a pistol and they don’t shoot back from the trenches in defense.
      But the cops yes, this is essentially the main weapon and much can depend on it.
      At specials yet. And it’s more to the platoon for show-offs and status.
      1. Roman1970
        Roman1970 10 September 2015 15: 50 New
        +16
        Quote: VP
        And what's the difference to an army officer what is his gun?
        They don’t go on the attack with a pistol and they don’t shoot back from the trenches in defense.
        But the cops yes, this is essentially the main weapon and much can depend on it.
        At specials yet. And it’s more to the platoon for show-offs and status.

        It depends on which gun. Recall Stechkin. Not at all show off. Severe, infection, but not show off - that's for sure.
        1. Arh
          Arh 10 September 2015 15: 58 New
          +2
          But what about the Kalashnikov and Swift pistols ??? In my opinion they are the best!?!
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 10 September 2015 17: 24 New
          +4
          Quote: Roman1970
          It depends on which gun. Recall Stechkin. Not at all show off. Severe, infection, but not show off - that's for sure.

          There is also Swift-Russian Glock ... a good machine, just to bring to mind ...
        3. uwzek
          uwzek 10 September 2015 17: 34 New
          +14
          Quote: Roman1970
          Recall Stechkin. Not at all show off. Severe, infection, but not show off - that's for sure.

          APS is not a gun, but a submachine gun. Especially with a holster-butt. Without a butt, it is pointless to fire bursts from Stechkin.
          All butt holsters have a stupid drawback: their belts have to be fixed on the shoulder with something (since you can’t put a similar construction behind the waist belt - then you won’t get the butt and shoulder). And these long straps interfere everywhere: when you crawl, climb into the hatch of a combat vehicle, get out of it. you can remove weapons with only two hands ...
          You can name many more similar reasons without straining. The non-ergonomics of the hard holster-stocks led to the fact that the pistols with their use left the armies of the world, although any well-known brand of the pistol had a similar accessory in options (all armies tried to equip auxiliary personnel with similar devices because of a shortage of main weapon).
          If you remove the butt, automatic firing mechanism from the APS, it will already be a new gun. The 9x18 cartridge is weak in armor penetration (like the 0.45 APC). Therefore, it makes sense to introduce a new cartridge. It’s unlikely that our powerful 9x21 will fit in with this role (it’s not because of its shortcomings, it jumps when firing, and the powder charge of the cartridge is too strong for most shooters, and the gun in the army is used as an additional weapon in the hands of a often wounded soldier when and not from my own hand).
          Our weapons factories are sitting idle. The employee of the military-industrial complex himself, I know how hard it is. These enterprises have long had no living workers. There were only design bureaus that had not tasted the taste of blood for a long time (not approved nominally, but seriously, designs with an approved state order). The same applies to cartridge factories (claims to fresh calibers were repeatedly discussed on the site). The country does not need new pistols (PMs for a hundred years ahead will be enough). If you do not allow civilian short-barrel, the industry will die unambiguously ...
          1. va3610
            va3610 11 September 2015 10: 15 New
            0
            Yes, permission for a short barrel will provide an opportunity to develop and create competition between developers and it is still necessary to launch Western producers of corbelshafts on the domestic market, this will spur producers to an even greater extent, subject to an adequate price.
      2. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 10 September 2015 18: 23 New
        +4
        Quote: VP
        And it’s more to the platoon for show-offs and status.

        When I served, the tankers also had, except for machine guns, Makarov pistols, and not just the officers. This weapon is personal for very close combat, when the crew remained alive, and the store in the machine was over.
        1. VP
          VP 10 September 2015 20: 02 New
          -1
          Tankers and pilots need the same pilot, even the short-haul AKSU will not take off.
      3. Alf
        Alf 10 September 2015 19: 09 New
        +5
        Quote: VP
        And what's the difference to an army officer what is his gun?
        They don’t go on the attack with a pistol and they don’t shoot back from the trenches in defense.

        So, according to your logic, officers do not need personal weapons at all?
        Then tankers and naval officers also do not need personal weapons?
        1. VP
          VP 10 September 2015 20: 09 New
          0
          Well, explain why motorized infantry or a naval gun?
          Riot on the ship to stop or what?
          And when did they drag the daggers except when they stopped parades?
          Understand, I'm not against guns. Moreover, tradition is sacred. I'm talking about the fact that the army, in addition to special forces, by and large, there is no big difference in which model he has a gun, this is not at all critical.
          This was critical in the years of the Second World War when the rate of fire was not enough.
          1. Hello
            Hello 10 September 2015 20: 30 New
            0
            Quote: VP
            Well, explain why motorized infantry or a naval gun?
            Riot on the ship to stop or what?
            And when did they drag the daggers except when they stopped parades?
            Understand, I'm not against guns. Moreover, tradition is sacred. I'm talking about the fact that the army, in addition to special forces, by and large, there is no big difference in which model he has a gun, this is not at all critical.
            This was critical in the years of the Second World War when the rate of fire was not enough.

            Good evening.
            It seems to me in the building can very much increase the chances of a fighter to survive. Again, for a sniper, given that he often carries a rifle on his shoulder at the time of battle. Yes, and when carrying the wounded can help
    3. Juborg
      Juborg 10 September 2015 15: 46 New
      0
      Quote: Enot_33
      It is high time. PM is suitable only for the police and similar structures. The army needs something new and more perfect.


      You don’t see that in appearance they only chop nuts, as well as PY. Well, is it really so difficult to at least “comb” the look, I’m already silent about the inside.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 10 September 2015 18: 03 New
        0
        Quote: juborg
        Well, is it really so difficult to at least look “comb”

        And what is wrong with the appearance?
        Quote: juborg
        I am already silent about the interns.

        What are the specific flaws?
        1. Juborg
          Juborg 10 September 2015 19: 12 New
          -2
          Quote: Vladimirets
          Quote: juborg
          Well, is it really so difficult to at least look “comb”

          And what is wrong with the appearance?
          Quote: juborg
          I am already silent about the interns.

          What are the specific flaws?

          I ALREADY WRITTEN, "THERE ARE NUTS ONLY PUNCHING."
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 10 September 2015 20: 24 New
            +6
            Quote: juborg
            "IT IS NUTS ONLY PUNCHING."

            This is a very reasoned and technically competent answer. wink
      2. Alf
        Alf 10 September 2015 19: 13 New
        +3
        Quote: juborg
        Well, is it really so difficult to at least “comb” the look, I’m already silent about the inside.

        Do you need a powerful cartridge or a beautiful appearance? Then you to the Chinese, they are usually beautiful outside, but govenno inside.
    4. marlin1203
      marlin1203 10 September 2015 15: 47 New
      +6
      The police are different. And the weapon in practice applies perhaps more often. So, that there the sensible barrel will definitely not hinder for "dusty work" soldier
    5. Juborg
      Juborg 10 September 2015 15: 47 New
      +2
      And what does not suit them submarines from Kalashnikov? Can't cut the butterflies? It turned out too cheap ?!
      1. avt
        avt 10 September 2015 17: 58 New
        +5
        Quote: juborg
        And what does not suit them submarines from Kalashnikov?

        And what does he actually, as well as the notorious ,, Swift "arrange it? Well, if without an orgasm, like
        Quote: Arh
        But what about the Kalashnikov and Swift pistols ??? In my opinion they are the best!?!
        laughing Maybe you have some specific information on testing these samples in accordance with army standards? So enlighten.
        Quote: Roman1970
        Recall Stechkin. Not at all show off. Severe, infection, but not show off - that's for sure.

        With the presence of PP in the metal and armament, as well as with the initially weak cartridge, that’s what Ponte, you can call it, status. Especially among Caucasians.
        1. Juborg
          Juborg 10 September 2015 19: 18 New
          -1
          Quote: avt
          Quote: juborg
          And what does not suit them submarines from Kalashnikov?

          And what does he actually, as well as the notorious ,, Swift "arrange it? Well, if without an orgasm, like
          Quote: Arh
          But what about the Kalashnikov and Swift pistols ??? In my opinion they are the best!?!
          laughing Maybe you have some specific information on testing these samples in accordance with army standards? So enlighten.
          Quote: Roman1970
          Recall Stechkin. Not at all show off. Severe, infection, but not show off - that's for sure.

          With the presence of PP in the metal and armament, as well as with the initially weak cartridge, that’s what Ponte, you can call it, status. Especially among Caucasians.

          You respected wounded hand with a loose grip on the handle, squeeze a shot? This is not about a police officer, but an army pistol.
          1. avt
            avt 10 September 2015 20: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: juborg
            You respected wounded hand with a loose grip, squeeze a shot?

            Quote: juborg
            This is not about a police officer, but an army pistol.

            Repeat the question on
            Quote: juborg
            And what does not suit them submarines from Kalashnikov?

            Quote: avt
            And what does he actually, as well as the notorious ,, Swift "arrange it?

            But let's change a little - When, who and where conducted full-fledged tests and revealed outstanding opportunities
            Quote: juborg
            Submarine from Kalashnikov

            as a pistol for arming the personnel of the army, Answers ala
            Quote: juborg
            ? (Anything can be in battle, my friend from PM shot with my thumb and middle finger)

            Not accepted, well, not interested in an artistic whistle instead of a specific test report, or just a report.
    6. bistrov.
      bistrov. 10 September 2015 15: 54 New
      +1
      As I understand it, two fuses, both automatic, eliminating spontaneous firing even when dropped. It would be interesting to get acquainted with his performance characteristics. Judging by the look, automation is based on the principle of recoil of a heavy shutter, similar to PM. And the cartridge, so very short, uses the latest high-energy gunpowder?
      1. Reserve buildbat
        Reserve buildbat 10 September 2015 16: 57 New
        +4
        Automation is a semi-free shutter. And the cartridge, if it seems short to you, look at the NATO 9x19 "parabellum"))) That will be shorter)))
        1. bistrov.
          bistrov. 10 September 2015 18: 21 New
          -3
          The first digit in any cartridge means caliber, the second cartridge length. What is such a short cartridge?
      2. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 10 September 2015 18: 10 New
        +1
        Quote: bistrov.
        And the cartridge is already very short

        9x21? Hmm, at PM 9x18, parabellum - 9x19. Well, not with Naganovsky you compare?
    7. RUSS
      RUSS 10 September 2015 16: 01 New
      +6
      Quote: Enot_33
      It is high time. PM is suitable only for the police and similar structures. The army needs something new and more perfect.


      The pistol PL-14 was developed by designer Dmitry Lebedev, working in the Kalashnikov concern. Dmitry is a student of the legendary designer of sports weapons Efim Khaidurov, and has been developing experimental pistols for many years. The development of the PL-14 pistol was launched in 2014 with the active participation of the famous shooter Andrei Kirisenko, multiple Russian champion in practical shooting. The aim of the development of the new pistol is to create a service (combat) pistol for the police, army and special services, as well as options based on it for sports practical shooting. The new pistol was based on a number of basic concepts, namely: optimal ergonomics, safe handling, high reliability with any 9x19 cartridges, full "double-sided", high resource (at least 10 shots when using 000N7 reinforced armor-piercing cartridges; with "ordinary »The resource should be much more ammo).
      You need to understand that at the moment (summer 2015) this gun is still at the prototype testing stage. Ready for mass production should be expected no earlier than the beginning of 2016, and during this time the gun will necessarily undergo significant changes compared to the prototype shown here. In particular, it is planned to switch from an aluminum frame to a polymer one. Below is a description of the experimental Lebedev PL-14 pistol in the form in which it was first shown to the public in June 2015.

      The Lebedev pistol PL-14 uses automation using the recoil of the bolt engaged with the barrel, with a short stroke of the barrel. The lowering of the breech when unlocking is carried out by a curly tide under the breech. The barrel is locked when the protrusion in the upper part of the barrel engages with a window for ejecting sleeves in the bolt. The frame of the gun is made of aluminum alloy, in the future it is planned to use a frame of impact-resistant polymer. The shape of the handle of the weapon provides a comfortable and natural grip of the weapon, while the maximum thickness of the handle is only 28mm.
      Trigger trigger, with a hidden trigger and inertial hammer. Shooting is carried out in self-cocking mode for each shot (trigger only double action), while the pulling force is 4 kg, and the full stroke of the trigger is only 7 mm. In addition, a manual fuse is introduced into the design, when you turn it off, release the trigger with the trigger and having two flat, conveniently located levers on both sides of the weapon. The design provides a pointer to the presence of a cartridge in the chamber, made in the form of a pin protruding from the rear end of the bolt in the presence of a cartridge in the barrel. The slide stop levers are also two-way, as is the magazine latch button. Cartridges are fed from detachable double-row magazines with cartridges output in one row. Sights are open, unregulated, mounted in dovetail-type grooves. On the frame under the barrel, a Picatinny rail is made for installing additional equipment (LCC, flashlight).
    8. The comment was deleted.
    9. The comment was deleted.
    10. Now we are free
      Now we are free 10 September 2015 16: 04 New
      +2
      Tests of the latest pistol under cartridge 9x12 mmdeveloped by Klimovskiy TsNIIITOCHMASH will begin this year, the military-industrial complex reports citing a source in the Ministry of Defense.

      The site administration edit the article before posting it on a rather respected VO resource ... In the same article, the correct caliber is listed below, but the precipitate, as they say, remains ...
      He noted that “the new pistol uses a rather rare 9x21mm cartridge

      Regarding the “New” pistol itself, here’s Serdyukov’s pistol better known as SPS “Gyurza” (see photo) and find as they say 10 differences with the “New” ...

      In addition to the tossing as indicated in the article, "Gyurza" has another drawback, one of the fuses located in the rear of the pistol grip during shooting strongly gives the arrow to the palm. With intensive shooting, the factor is very unpleasant, which is not surprising given the power of 9x21mm ammunition. As you can see from the photo, the fuse at the "New" remained there ...

      In general, having eliminated the shortcomings of the “New Product”, it could / would have been necessary to arm the aircraft and explosives, but the PL-14 would be suitable for the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Yes, these pistols have different calibers, but you must admit that the tasks that the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Air Force / Air Force solve are slightly different ...

      Another question arises by itself when adopting a new ammunition for it, both PP and pistol are developed, examples of well-established "Teammates":
      1) .PP MP5 and Glock / Beretta pistol for 9 × 19 mm cartridge.
      2) .PP UMP and HK Mk.23 mod pistol chambered for 11,43 × 23 mm caliber
      2) .PP FN P90 and FN Five-seven pistol under a cartridge of caliber 5,7 × 28 mm.

      If with the PL-14 using the widely used though outdated (let’s be honest) 9 × 19 mm in Russia there are a lot of good domestic-made PPs as partners, the question of the partner PP for the Novinki pistol under 9x21mm remains open ...
      1. Assistant
        Assistant 11 September 2015 08: 52 New
        0
        then the question about partner PP for the pistol "Novelties" under 9x21mm remains open ...


        TSNIITOCHMASH SR-2 "Heather".
    11. The comment was deleted.
    12. The comment was deleted.
    13. siberalt
      siberalt 10 September 2015 16: 07 New
      0
      Good gun. Killing him is much better.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. siberalt
        siberalt 10 September 2015 17: 12 New
        0
        What is the institute minus laughing Then what’s the use of weapons for women? laughing Here just would not mind discussing stopping properties. It is not a fact that it hit the target, but the target should not have the physical ability to respond to the shot right there.
    14. War and Peace
      War and Peace 10 September 2015 16: 11 New
      +1
      it’s time to stop at something. PM ​​has been escorting them for 30 years and everything has been offered and everything is new and new. GREATER SHIPUNOV WITH DIRT made GSh18 - he didn’t like the military, then the CP1 GYURZA was too heavy, then Yarygin, about 3 years back, was STRIZH-our- Italian, then Lebedev, it seems to be good at everything, now it is a modification of the GYURZA, and the military still can’t choose what they need ...
      1. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 10 September 2015 19: 20 New
        +1
        Probably hand lasers are waiting. laughing
      2. avt
        avt 10 September 2015 22: 24 New
        0
        Quote: war and peace
        THE GREAT SHIPUNOV WITH DREAM made GSH18 - the military did not like him, then the CP1 GYURZA was too heavy, then Yarygin,

        Is CP-1 really on the topic ,, Rook "passed ??? Actually, I always thought that he did the KGB / FSB for himself with 9x21 and PP ,, Veresk". Well, I don’t want to talk about PY at all - they sold it to the detriment of the campaign the OTs-27 and GSh-18, and ,, Swift " laughing Well, everyone who is not lazy is sleeping with him according to Rogozin’s testament, and there’s no time for any trials, much less a series. That's how the submarine was blown away quietly and some army version of the SR is announced request We’ll wait and see, but for now there will be enough Soviet PMs in the warehouses, but for now, big uncles are playing pistol games.
        1. War and Peace
          War and Peace 11 September 2015 00: 06 New
          +1
          Quote: avt
          CR-1 except on the topic ,, Rook "passed ??


          gyurza
          http://topwar.ru/34729-samozaryadnyy-pistolet-sr-1mp-gyurza.html
          1. avt
            avt 11 September 2015 10: 37 New
            0
            Quote: war and peace
            gyurza

            I know about his clique from the exhibition, I’m talking about something else - about the competition for an army pistol with the code "Grach", similar to "Abakan".
        2. IS-80
          IS-80 11 September 2015 15: 08 New
          0
          Quote: avt
          OZ-27

          OTs-33 is cooler. And if with two hands, as in the "Equilibrium" so generally fantastic. And most importantly, it is heavy, iron, reliable, if that can be used in hand-to-hand combat. And these all sorts of plastic Glock-17 is all nonsense.
    15. Batia
      Batia 10 September 2015 17: 29 New
      0
      PM is morally obsolete, I agree, but in capable hands he is quite a formidable weapon. I liked him.
    16. Felix-A
      Felix-A 10 September 2015 17: 38 New
      0
      For the police, this sample is also not in any gate.
    17. romanru4
      romanru4 11 September 2015 14: 02 New
      0
      It is precisely the police that most often use personal service weapons. This subject is much more important to them than to the officer of the Armed Forces.
  2. Su24
    Su24 10 September 2015 15: 34 New
    0
    How much more powerful is 9x21 than 9x18?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. gjv
      gjv 10 September 2015 15: 54 New
      +1
      Quote: Su24
      How much more powerful

      PM against the first class of armor protection.
      CP1M against the second class of armor protection, i.e. will be more powerful.
      1. VP
        VP 10 September 2015 16: 02 New
        +2
        The main thing in the gun is not penetration but the stopping action of the bullet.
        Because of what, the TT was replaced at the time by Makar, although the TTshnik has a better penetration.
        1. Assistant
          Assistant 11 September 2015 08: 59 New
          +1
          The main thing in the gun is not penetration but the stopping action of the bullet.


          Now every self-respecting professional criminal (not to be confused with amateur criminals) can be expected to have light body armor under clothing.

          Because of what, the TT was replaced at the time by Makar, although the TTshnik has a better penetration.


          In the 1950s, secretive wearing bulletproof vests were a little less common than nothing. Then high penetration was not required.
    3. gjv
      gjv 10 September 2015 17: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: Su24
      How much more powerful is 9x21 than 9x18?

      Quote: VP
      The main thing in the gun is not penetration but the stopping action of the bullet.

      There is a quantitative measure - the muzzle energy of a bullet.
      CP1 cartridge 9x21 - 635 J, against PM 9x18 - 300 J.
      1. VP
        VP 10 September 2015 20: 18 New
        0
        But this is an argument, and very weighty.
  3. afdjhbn67
    afdjhbn67 10 September 2015 15: 36 New
    +1
    Yes, and this one also looks like an overly complicated PM .. obviously they have not yet decided what to put into service, and a new and perfect one is not always good and reliable
    1. Tor5
      Tor5 10 September 2015 16: 59 New
      0
      He held in his hands (did not shoot), as it does not "lie down".
    2. The comment was deleted.
  4. Kolka82
    Kolka82 10 September 2015 15: 37 New
    0
    What kind of test program is this up to the end of 2016? belay
  5. AdekvatNICK
    AdekvatNICK 10 September 2015 15: 38 New
    +1
    and the owl’s head on the handle?
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 10 September 2015 16: 02 New
      +1
      Quote: AdekvatNICK
      and the owl’s head on the handle?

      Yes. yes, a symbol of the bohemian grove. Freemasons without symbols anywhere!
      1. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 10 September 2015 16: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        (also known as Serdyukov’s pistol)

        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Quote: AdekvatNICK
        and the owl’s head on the handle?

        Yes. yes, a symbol of the bohemian grove. Freemasons without symbols anywhere!

        Not our trunk ... hi
        I like this one ...
        [img] http://kolanews.ru/f2/iskkra/thumbnail/article-wide?URL=news-may/3428.jpg [/
        img]

        According to Alexei Krivoruchko, the general director of the company, the versatility of the PL-14 will make it possible to use it not only as a military weapon for the army and police, but also as a sports pistol for competitions of various classes.

        It is clarified that the PL-14 has a uniquely small thickness in comparison with analogues of this class: 28 millimeters in the handle area and 21 millimeters in the front of the gun. In addition, the two-sided arrangement and configuration of the PL-14 controls allows you to use the gun with both your right and left hands, which makes it convenient to carry and use.

        "Particular attention is paid to the safety of the weapon: the applied trigger mechanism solution guarantees the impossibility of spontaneous firing of a loaded pistol, even when dropped from a great height onto a hard surface. In addition, in the basic version, the descent is intentionally made longer and with more effort than usual that will save the shooter from accidental shots in a stressful situation while holding his finger on the descent, "the message says.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 10 September 2015 17: 04 New
          0
          Quote: MIKHAN
          I like this one ...

          Something link is incomprehensible, please duplicate.
          1. sedoj
            sedoj 10 September 2015 17: 30 New
            +2
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Something link is incomprehensible, please duplicate.

            Try it here:
            http://kolanews.ru/f2/iskkra/thumbnail/article-wide?URL=news-may/3428.jpg
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. gjv
          gjv 10 September 2015 17: 14 New
          +1
          Quote: MIKHAN
          I like this one ...

          So after all, this Browning cannot be put into the arsenal of the Russian army.

          Sanctions, you know ...
          And the muzzle energy of the bullet is still weaker, at the PM level. request
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. gjv
      gjv 10 September 2015 16: 11 New
      +6
      Quote: AdekvatNICK
      and on the hilt the head of an owl

      Yes, owl head - logo FSUE TSNIITOCHMASH.
      From options:

      Selected this

      Products that canbear"this logo:
      Small arms:
      Self-loading gun SR-1M "Gyurza"
      Submachine gun SR-2M "Heather"
      Small-sized submachine gun SR-3M "Whirlwind"
      Silent machine "Val"
      Vintorez sniper rifle
      Silent gun PSS
      APS submarine
      Submarine gun SPP-1M
      Army machine gun "Pecheneg"
      Cartridge SP4
      Cartridges SP5, SP6
      Cartridges SP10, SP11
      IPS cartridge
      SPS cartridge
      Artillery weapons:
      120mm NONA-SVK. Self-propelled gun / mortar
      120mm VIENNA. Automated self-propelled howitzer / mortar
      120-mm semi-automatic breech-loading mortar "Nona-M1"
      Intelligent weapons systems:
      Shooting simulators:
      Shooting simulator 1U35M
      Shooting simulator 1U35
      Shooting simulator TRAK-1
      Equipment and equipment:
      "Barmitsa" - protection system
      "Barmitsa" - the defeat system
      "Barmitsa" - energy supply system
      "Barmitsa" - management system
      "Barmitsa" - life support system
      Special use containers and cases:
      Universal dustproof, moisture-proof boxes, packaging, containers, cases
      Lodgment shock absorbers
      Fiberglass crates over 30 sizes: include fiberglass casing, fittings and gaskets
      Fiberglass packaging more than 130 items: boxes with shock absorbers-lodges installed in them
      5-pack satchel bags: packs designed for carrying on the back include a suspension system
      Transport and operational containers of 4 sizes: packages containing means for deploying field workplaces for working with equipment complexes
      Combined packaging systems: include backpacks, trunks, bags, cases, additionally placed in fiberglass boxes and packages
      Lodges shock absorbers: made of foam materials according to customer drawings, laser cutting and pouring methods
      Accessories for packaging and containers: suspension systems, bags, backpacks, covers, etc.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 10 September 2015 17: 06 New
        0
        Quote: gjv
        Products that can carry this logo:

        It’s probably not worth it to reduce everything to conspiracy theories, but nevertheless, who initiated the choice of this logo? Not with the participation of those same Chubais aides was an owl chosen?hi
      2. IS-80
        IS-80 11 September 2015 15: 28 New
        0
        Quote: gjv
        Yes, the owl’s head is the logo of FSUE TsNIITOCHMASH.

        I wonder who drew? That looks like it.
      3. saygon66
        saygon66 13 September 2015 17: 06 New
        0
        - Iver Johnson rolled over in his grave! wink Well, plagiarism all around ...
  6. Des10
    Des10 10 September 2015 15: 38 New
    0
    "Tests of the latest pistol chambered for 9x12 mm, developed by Klimovsky TsNIITOCHMASH, will begin this year, said the military-industrial complex, citing a source in the Ministry of Defense."
    Well, at least then they specified - 9x21 smile , but I already thought --- they invented something special.
  7. st25310
    st25310 10 September 2015 15: 39 New
    0
    Tests of the latest pistol chambered for 9x12 mm. is there no mistake? can 9X21 mm.
  8. This
    This 10 September 2015 15: 45 New
    +1
    In the picture - CP-1, "Gyurza"
    1. gjv
      gjv 10 September 2015 16: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: Taka
      In the picture - CP-1, "Gyurza"


      The visible difference between the presented picture of the new pistol from the CP1M in the handle area and the absence of a fuse button. And where is the snake?
  9. Fibrizio
    Fibrizio 10 September 2015 15: 51 New
    -2
    The return will be decent. Although it is not clear what they like 45 caliber did not please. Enough dope. Or standard 9x19. Why fence a garden with a new cartridge? Existing few?
  10. yuriy55
    yuriy55 10 September 2015 15: 52 New
    +3
    I don’t understand something, I’m probably going to the optometrist. There is such material:
    http://gunsite.narod.ru/gurza.htm
    The Gyurza pistol complex was created for arming specials. units of the army and police, designed to hit living targets in bulletproof vests up to the third protection class, as well as various technical means (vehicles, cabs and antennas of radar systems, missile bodies, etc.) at ranges up to 100 m. The complex consists of designed in TsNIITOCHMASH pistol SR-1 designed by Peter Serdyukov and cartridge SP-10 (RG-052) designed by Alexei Yuryev. ATThe first prototype of the complex was introduced in 1991. The complex was adopted by the Russian power structures in 1996 under the name CP-1. The complex is also sold abroad under the trade name SR-1 "Vektor".
    Automation gun "Gyurza" works due to the short stroke of the barrel. The trigger mechanism of the trigger type, double action. The gun has two automatic fuses. One is located on the rear of the pistol grip and turns off when you reach the pistol grip with your hand. The second fuse is located on the trigger and turns off when you press the trigger with your finger. Sights are not adjustable. The body of the gun is made of durable plastic. The trigger guard has a protrusion under the finger of the second hand when shooting with two hands.
    An important component of the Gyurza pistol complex are special 9x23 mm cartridges. The following range of cartridges is used for firing a Gyurza pistol:
    cartridge SP-10 - cartridge design A. Yuryev, the second name is RG-052. The shell bullet contains a tungsten carbide core with exposed core in the bullet head. These design features give the SP-10 cartridge increased armor penetration. At a distance of 100 meters, the SP-10 bullet is guaranteed to break through class III body armor, and at a distance of 70 meters, the head of the car’s cylinder block.
    cartridge SP-11 - a shell bullet with a lead core.
    cartridge SP-12 - with an expansive action bullet
    cartridge SP-13 - with an armor-piercing tracer bullet.
  11. Hellriker
    Hellriker 10 September 2015 15: 53 New
    0
    It looks like a rubber barrel "under PM". And what about the PL-14? It seems like the tests were outlined?
  12. TOZ-34
    TOZ-34 10 September 2015 15: 53 New
    0
    Error 9x12? And throws up a lot?
  13. SibSlavRus
    SibSlavRus 10 September 2015 15: 53 New
    0
    Something tells me that in the photo there is a 9-mm self-loading pistol SR-1 "Vector".
    Created in the mid 90's. lead designer TsNIITochMash P. I. Serdyukov on the basis of the gun RG055, previously developed by him, which received the informal name "Gyurza".
    This barrel is in service with special units. And it really has a 9x21 mm cartridge. Capacity = 18pcs

    Now the Rook (Yarygin’s pistol) is used under the 9x19 mm cartridge “parabellum” in the troops and services, and (especially impressing me) army GSh-18 pistol.
    But if there are complaints about the Rook (especially in terms of biting the cartridge case during ejection), then the GS-18, in my opinion, is the best “barrel” in its class. And it was developed, if I am not mistaken, later than the rest of the presented samples.
    By the way, on the topic "Rook" work was carried out in several KB. Currently, there are only two pistols left: the first - the Izhevsk Mechanical Plant, designed by V. Yarygin, the second - TsNIITochMash, designed by P. Serdyukov (which he also developed the 9x21 Vector).
    GSH-18, for me, is so simple a "fairy tale". And his ammunition.
  14. eyed
    eyed 10 September 2015 15: 57 New
    0
    I remember, I grumbled from "Stechkin" bursts, and even with a wooden cabaret. It was a good gun.
  15. Vladimir 1964
    Vladimir 1964 10 September 2015 16: 01 New
    +2
    This is not the first model to replace the old PM, only the use of pistols by combat officers is really extremely insignificant. So the question arises, do you need so many, plus a new cartridge?
  16. Vladimir
    Vladimir 10 September 2015 16: 10 New
    +5
    Why do they need two fuses in an army pistol? They won’t save a fool, but in innovation such an innovation may not be too much to argue. In general, in an army battle, a gun is needed not to hit the enemy, but to reach the machine gun.
    1. SibSlavRus
      SibSlavRus 10 September 2015 16: 52 New
      +2
      You can’t even imagine, but in the same GSh there are already four different safety systems (!). And the question “why,” probably, as they say in army circles: “there were precedents.”
  17. LEVIAFAN
    LEVIAFAN 10 September 2015 16: 17 New
    0
    and who knows what TT was bad? if anyone knows why it was removed, write. thanks in advance.
    1. Army soldier2
      Army soldier2 10 September 2015 17: 19 New
      +2
      There are several reasons. 1. Significantly more difficult incomplete disassembly (compared with PM). 2. The actual absence of a fuse as such. 3. Small resource trigger mechanism. TT "aged" and can shoot in bursts. 4. Small stopping action of a bullet.
      At URE in the beginning of the 80's, the TT was in service with us. It shoots well, though often in bursts. Accuracy is high (even with worn trunks).
    2. Sochi
      Sochi 10 September 2015 17: 32 New
      +1
      I will add that in severe frosts it “froze” even with minimal lubrication.
  18. vkl-47
    vkl-47 10 September 2015 16: 18 New
    0
    Yes, no gyurza will be introduced. The photos showed since the potron is the same
    Everyone is aware that the gyurzu still made 90 [/ quote]
    Read the article carefully
  19. tol100v
    tol100v 10 September 2015 16: 36 New
    0
    Talk about replacing PM-ma has been going on for two decades, but things are still there! And the proposed option is not a fact that will be implemented. That's when they will adopt, then another conversation will be, and so, one projection!
  20. eyed
    eyed 10 September 2015 16: 43 New
    +1
    Quote: LEVIAFAN
    and who knows what TT was bad? if anyone knows why it was removed, write. thanks in advance.

    TT - heavy, in the hand lies uncomfortable, throws it cool because of the shutter. And the present-day bullet will not be enough - IMHO.
    1. uzer 13
      uzer 13 10 September 2015 18: 11 New
      +1
      The cartridge did not correspond to the new post-war ideas about the properties of personal weapons, and even when it was turned out by the machine tools, they apparently acquired what the Walters did on it. But the main reason is considered to be the unreliable coil spring of the trigger. during the war years and even more so. Alloying additives were brought from America by Lend-Lease.
  21. bish
    bish 10 September 2015 16: 49 New
    +1
    I didn’t shoot a lot from Gyurza, but there were definitely a couple of shops, I didn’t notice either tossing the trunk or recoil with a fuse in my hand. Only the "Gyurza" from which he shot had a slightly different fuse in the handle.
    And when firing the same cartridge from the "Veresk" everything flies very well, it turned out to put growth targets at 300 m.
  22. Watchman
    Watchman 10 September 2015 16: 50 New
    0
    It would be better if Yarygin was finalized.
  23. reklats34
    reklats34 10 September 2015 16: 54 New
    0
    it's time to do machine guns
    1. gjv
      gjv 10 September 2015 17: 05 New
      0
      Quote: reklats34
      it's time to do machine guns

      From the same factory TsNIITOCHMASH products:
      Submachine gun SR-2M "Heather"
      Small-sized submachine gun SR-3M "Whirlwind"
      Silent machine "Val"
      Vintorez sniper rifle
      Silent gun PSS
      APS submarine
      Submarine gun SPP-1M
      Army machine gun "Pecheneg"
  24. Svetovod
    Svetovod 10 September 2015 17: 00 New
    +1
    Quote: Su24
    How much more powerful is 9x21 than 9x18?


    In terms of speed, it is 100m / s faster, in terms of muzzle energy it is almost 2 times more powerful (300J against 580J).
    Here is the topic http://topwar.ru/20384-patrony-9h21-i-oruzhie-dlya-nih-statya-i.html

    Under this business, automation with the clutch of the shutter and barrel is also needed. In "Gyurza" it seems the same locking pattern as in "Walter-P38" and "Beretta F92" - a swinging wedge tripping over a steel cylinder. Reliable circuit like. Not as open to all the sands as the GSH-18, and not as limited in pistol development as the Rook with a swinging barrel. You can grow the trunk, on the frame in front of the bracket to make a mounting influx for all sorts of different lights, laser marks, handles and bipods. It is necessary for someone or not, but the cartridge allows you to consciously achieve the characteristics of a carbine with a proper stock, a long barrel, and an aim. But this is just a gun.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. gjv
      gjv 10 September 2015 17: 23 New
      +1
      Quote: Svetovod
      You can grow the trunk, on the frame in front of the bracket to make a mounting influx for all sorts of different lights, laser marks, handles and bipods. It is necessary for someone or not, but the cartridge allows you to consciously achieve the characteristics of a carbine with a proper stock, a long barrel, and an aim. But this is just a gun.

      Somewhere there was information that on the new pistol there will be a Picatinny rail for everything that Ivan listed. However, I do not see something in the picture bully
      1. WUA 518
        WUA 518 10 September 2015 17: 47 New
        +3
        Quote: gjv
        Picatinny rail for everything

        At "Gyurza" implemented. If you wish, you can hang without problems.
    3. Sochi
      Sochi 10 September 2015 17: 37 New
      0
      There is also (ATP) a spring-loaded shutter on the shutter frame, which greatly softens the return ...
    4. WUA 518
      WUA 518 10 September 2015 18: 00 New
      +1
      [[/ Center]
      Quote: Svetovod
      You can grow the trunk, on the frame in front of the bracket to make a mounting influx for all kinds of different lights

      Yes, you don’t even have to do anything, enough fasteners.
      1. castle
        castle 10 September 2015 19: 44 New
        0
        And you offer these bells and whistles to army men, for daily service in the fields? Guys, until April 1, another six months with a hook.
        And if you are serious about the photo at the beginning of the article - the trunk is short, the “nose” is light. Throwing up will be very significant. It’s not good for a good fight. If only as at a shooting range, there is a lot of time and the target does not run and does not respond with fire. Then PM is a good device. For a paper target.
        1. WUA 518
          WUA 518 10 September 2015 23: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: hrad
          And you offer these bells and whistles to army men, for daily service in the fields?

          God forbid.
          Quote: hrad
          Throwing up will be very significant.

          Little blood can be solved by installing the DTK (muzzle brake compensator) But the designers know better.
  25. Mitrich76
    Mitrich76 10 September 2015 17: 15 New
    +1
    It seems that we will not wait for the PM replacement ... Already so much has been developed, released, tested, and things are still there.
    And hardly it is only in the performance characteristics. It is more like beating out funds by various design bureaus and industries. Apparently, someone’s willful decision is again needed, after which, as always, the weapons are accepted, the diseases are cured and “weapons possessing an exceptional combination of reliability, ease of use, combat qualities and low cost of production” are obtained
    If I find myself wrong, it will be great, but somehow not our way.
    1. SSeT
      SSeT 10 September 2015 23: 19 New
      0
      Already make a clone of glock on a good line of production and do not have a brain, resources and means. if you yourself can’t bring pl-14 or gsh-18 to mind
  26. Massik
    Massik 10 September 2015 17: 58 New
    0
    All this is useless, still no one wants to build a production line, and if they do, they will produce the same slag in quality.
  27. Strashila
    Strashila 10 September 2015 18: 06 New
    +2
    If I am not mistaken, all these creations came out of the Grach project in the 90s.
    There, the initial versions of Serdyukov and Yarygin and others took part in the competition ... by defeating Makarov ... PMM in a bitter struggle. Berdysh was not a bad run with Stechkin’s participation, there are variations under virtually any cartridge from PM to TT.
    The fact that the PMM is in service with the FSO is the highest indicator for weapons.
    All these annual pistol contests look more and more like an attempt to cut the budget than real concern for arming the army.
    1. SSeT
      SSeT 10 September 2015 23: 25 New
      +1
      PMM is such a palliative in the absence of a normal personal pistol, a dozen options are normal - NO! it is necessary to invent his mountain, from .. the bad, but his !!! SO !!
  28. uzer 13
    uzer 13 10 September 2015 18: 32 New
    +1
    Only the cartridge can be called new here, but it can be called the cartridge for special forces rather than the army. The best option would be the well-known 9 * 19 Para and the Beretta 92 gun as an example. This is where a good ratio of weapon weight and cartridge power is achieved, quality and cost. It has long been known that you need to make a cartridge first, and then a gun. If these cartridges are made a few hundred a year, what more can I talk about? The quality is also known, with the old releases PM can not be compared. So and everything goes on behind the other results in a small amount of useless quality, which in turn leads to a lack of demand.
  29. Evilcat
    Evilcat 10 September 2015 19: 18 New
    0
    Quote: bistrov.
    The first digit in any cartridge means caliber, the second cartridge length. What is such a short cartridge?
    The second digit indicates the length of the sleeve, not the cartridge.
  30. Evilcat
    Evilcat 10 September 2015 19: 23 New
    0
    Sorry, but I have not seen a more full-time system. Pimps on the back of the handle and on the trigger. apparently automatic fuses? Do you think a fuse of this size is very convenient? Well, compare similar ones with grandparents. Colt 1911 on the handle and Glock 17 on the trigger. And subsequent imitators. Were they all there? I don’t believe in it and that’s all.
    1. castle
      castle 10 September 2015 19: 57 New
      +1
      My home appliance is the CZ 75 BD POLICE. There is also an interesting internal fuse system. And not any discomfort with active shooting.
      1. SSeT
        SSeT 10 September 2015 23: 29 New
        +1
        Great example. He and his later mods are one of the best examples of personal weapons in the world. What for do you need to reinvent the wheel in the 21st century?
      2. WUA 518
        WUA 518 10 September 2015 23: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: hrad
        My home appliance is the CZ 75 BD POLICE. That

        Honestly, I envy. They were selling at a rifle club, but the price ..........., and it should have been stored anyway at the club. But her hands were scratched by her God.
        1. WUA 518
          WUA 518 10 September 2015 23: 57 New
          +1
          Now they’re tearing the soul.
          Glock 17 *. Austrian pistol developed by Glock for the needs of the Austrian army.
          * There is no discount on loyalty cards for this gun model.
          Country of manufacture: Austria
          Caliber: 9x19
          Weapon length: 186 mm
          Barrel length: 114 mm
          Weight: 625
          Storage at the club.
          85 –P
  31. corporal
    corporal 10 September 2015 20: 09 New
    +2
    Again, our designers are engaged in masturbation of the brain, it would be better if the ZIG ZAUER PRO were copied and remade under the 9x21 cartridge.
    IMHO of course, as a former policeman I express my wish.
    1. Alf
      Alf 10 September 2015 20: 25 New
      0
      Quote: Corporal
      Again, our designers are engaged in masturbation of the brain, it would be better if the ZIG ZAUER PRO were copied and remade under the 9x21 cartridge.
      IMHO of course, as a former policeman I express my wish.

      And who will give it to copy?
      Take someone else's pistol, created under one cartridge and remake under a completely different cartridge? Do you understand what you said? It's easier to make a new one.
      Imagine the picture. At your home, Horizon CRT, fully released by us. You are going to put in it a kinescope from Panasonic. Try to do it, then report the result.
      If you do not want to experiment with a zombie, try putting a drawer from another wall in your furniture wall.
      If you do not want to experiment with the wall, try to stick 12 cylinders with a Ferrari instead of a four-pot motor in your car. Just, again, report the result.
      You, although a policeman, must think. (No offense)
      1. SSeT
        SSeT 10 September 2015 23: 33 New
        +2
        Do not be stupid, being not in the know. SiG quite calmly sells production licenses. For any models, any cartridges that they have mastered (almost everything on the market) Yes, they are not the cheapest on the market, well, they don’t sell Ketai iPhones. The problem is that it will be necessary to invest in production (machines), you don’t sharpen files with sheds in the sheds, you won’t get too much on rollbacks
  32. Evilcat
    Evilcat 10 September 2015 20: 47 New
    0
    According to the source, “a new army pistol is not a modernization of the CP-1, but a completely new development”.
    But what about the name of the gun? SR-1M?
  33. Evilcat
    Evilcat 10 September 2015 20: 55 New
    0
    Quote: bish
    I didn’t shoot a lot from Gyurza, but there were definitely a couple of shops, I didn’t notice either tossing the trunk or recoil with a fuse in my hand. Only the "Gyurza" from which he shot had a slightly different fuse in the handle.
    And when firing the same cartridge from the "Veresk" everything flies very well, it turned out to put growth targets at 300 m.
    9x21 by 300 meters? Are you confusing anything?
  34. anatoliy73
    anatoliy73 10 September 2015 21: 00 New
    0
    Citizens are comrades! Explain to me - the amateur, ento that, not even twenty years have passed - and again we decided to reanimate Gyurza / Vector? And again, change the 'orientation' from 9x19 to 9x21? Will Al be one small-bore caliber for 'specialists'? Just from the beginning of the zero, I follow the shooter 'jumps' hi
  35. Evilcat
    Evilcat 10 September 2015 21: 09 New
    +1
    Quote: uzer 13
    The cartridge did not correspond to the new post-war ideas about the properties of personal weapons, and even when it was turned out by the machine tools, they apparently acquired what the Walters did on it. But the main reason is considered to be the unreliable coil spring of the trigger. during the war years and even more so. Alloying additives were brought from America by Lend-Lease.
    The specialist is immediately visible. Spring steel contains up to 0,25% nickel and the same amount of chromium, however, some grades of steel up to 1% chromium. What is such a rare steel? And what is the relationship between the properties of the cartridge and the material of the spring?
  36. Gunther
    Gunther 10 September 2015 21: 40 New
    0
    Quote: VP
    The main thing in the gun is not penetration but the stopping action of the bullet.

    Well, it’s like someone, sometimes a lethal ending is required.

    Quote: VP
    Because of what, the TT was replaced at the time by Makar, although the TTshnik has a better penetration.

    Everything changes over time - reliable body armor appeared and the makar was "out of date", which is why TT was in demand.
  37. Stoler
    Stoler 10 September 2015 22: 46 New
    0
    What we just "did not test and did not accept for arms," ​​But as we walk with the PM and Kalash, we will continue to walk. hi
  38. Wolka
    Wolka 11 September 2015 05: 13 New
    0
    this device is not new, it’s being finalized, but it’s being finalized, and the main drawback is that the weapon is not balanced, which causes the barrel to be thrown at the time of the shot, the ammunition with -21 is very powerful, not akin to the PM, there is still a short barrel, compensators partially solve the problem, but solve I’d like it ... it’s better for me Stechkin, well, or the TT with its ammunition, to slightly change the external design, ergonomics, so to speak, to solve the problem with the additional fuse, but without prejudice to the balance of weapons and the total weight of the weapon and on the go, it’s really army pistol ... but generally for a long time it’s time to set a goal to create a short-barreled weapon based on the metered removal of part of the powder gases from the bore, the scheme for rolling the free shutter and the short stroke of the barrel, although the optimal, but not quite the best solution ...