Military Review

War of Monuments: Orthodox Front (part of 1)

125
Which year already the Russian Orthodox Church is under the constant care of the media. Hordes of bloggers, who, without letting the candle out of their hands, keep a close watch on the patriarch’s watch, the patriarchal cross and, of course, the patriarchal ryasa, all of a sudden where a smartphone or tablet appears, does not lag behind them. At the same time, all these fighters of the keyboard and mouse are surprisingly often united in well-known political views. They also surprisingly often compensate for their own lack of professionalism with eloquent provocative information about the attacks on the church. As they say, we live like this, diligently pretending, as if we had no idea that in a modern impersonal network environment, an Orthodox activist might even call himself a Wahhabi, shahidically girded, even a Yakut shaman with a tambourine. They are equally trying not to notice the work of the competent authorities, without going into the details of the investigation.


After vandalism on Lakhtinskaya in St. Petersburg, inspired by a new excuse to declare about their own existence, the ranks of a specifically-minded public, spurred by a noble idea to protect Peter’s famous and unique cultural heritage, were drawn to the new opposition Mecca. At the same time, it, this very legacy, turned out to be so “famous and unique” that there were no drawings, models, or even information about the material from which the so-called Mephistopheles was made. Moreover, the well-known Petersburg translator, writer and publicist Dmitry Puchkov in Novosibirsk admitted that he did not even know about the existence of such a remarkable bas-relief, although he had lived in St. Petersburg for several decades.

War of Monuments: Orthodox Front (part of 1)



Photo source: http://saint-petersburg.ru/m/society/apaley/340231/.

The extremely colorful audience gathered at Lakhtinskaya radiated sincere childish joy from the attention given. However, all attempts to drive away the keen sense of deja vu were unsuccessful. Indeed, phony-wise phrases and hashtags went into action. If it were not for the deep, so to speak, strategic goals (which will be discussed below), this is a gathering that actively protects the cultural heritage against the background of ugly graffiti, peeling plaster and general wretchedness of the facade, protected by the crowd of the building, on the walls of which they managed to stick scotch quickly the bungled banner with “Mephistopheles,” looked like a caricature of themselves. And God sees that after this seething in the oppositional cranial boxes, the next furious pictures with armored arch-artesters and amphibious diaks, prowling across Russia in search of the next bas-reliefs, are already looming. And judging by the slogans of these dull “defenders”, they, in fact, don't care whether a vandal will be punished or not. They are fanatically passionate about narcissism.

So why is Orthodoxy a target? Who will remove populist cream from scandalous shares?

A few strokes to the portrait of Russian Orthodoxy

Whether you like it or not, whether you believe in God or you are an atheist, the fact remains. The Russian Orthodox Church is one of the oldest social institutions in modern Russia, with more than 1000 years stories. It goes without saying that during such a long history it was impossible to avoid the fact that Orthodoxy does not penetrate so deeply into Russian antiquity and statehood, and Russian antiquity and statehood into Orthodoxy, which is sometimes difficult to understand where one ends and the other begins. In fact, Orthodoxy is one of the foundations of Russia. Both Dmitry Donskoy and Alexander Nevsky understood this spiritual patriotic charge, but there is no need to go so far if there are examples closer to our time, while perhaps even more vivid.

22 June 1941, immediately after the declaration of war, the Patriarchal Locum Tenens, Metropolitan of Moscow and Kolomna, Sergius, wrote the “Message to the Pastors of the Christian Orthodox Church” (I quote in abbreviation):

“In recent years, we, the people of Russia, have comforted ourselves with the hope that the military fire that has engulfed almost the whole world will not affect our country. But fascism, which recognizes only bare force by law and is accustomed to sneering at the high demands of honor and morality, turned out to be true to itself this time too. Fascist robbers attacked our homeland ...

But not for the first time, the Russian people have to endure such tests ...

Our ancestors did not lose heart and in a worse situation, because they remembered not about personal benefits and dangers, but about the sacred duty to the Motherland and faith and came out victorious.

We will not shame their glorious name, and we are Orthodox, our own in flesh and faith. ”


3 July 1941, Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin spoke as he didn’t say before, didn’t speak with bureaucratic “comrades, citizens”, but spoke differently: “brothers and sisters”. As Mr. Kiselev says: “Coincidence? I do not think.

And on September 4, 1943, Stalin personally met with the three metropolitans of the Russian Orthodox Church. During the conversation, Stalin approved the convocation of the Council of Bishops for the election of the patriarch and the creation of a synod. Moreover, he authorized the publication of the journal of the Moscow Patriarchate and offered government support (transport, food, etc.). But the irony of this meeting was Stalin’s proposal to provide the church with a mansion in Chisty Lane, previously occupied by German ambassador Schulenburg. And this is after many years of persecution of the church, which is no secret.

However, words are words, but what about the deed? In fact, the country received not only material (fees, received by the defense fund from church parishes, numbered in the millions) and spiritual support, but also an extensive intelligence network behind enemy lines, channels for providing food for partisan detachments, etc. Here is just a short list of those who forged the Great Victory, being in a cassock:

Priest Boris Kirik from the Baranavichy region (a paramedic by training) dug a huge cellar under the floor of the church house and set up a hospital for partisans there.

Nikolai Khaltov, a priest of the same area, also organized a hospital for partisans and helped them with the Brigade reconnaissance team. Chapaeva. In 1944, he was arrested with his brother for contacting the partisans. Fate is unknown.

Priest Nikolai Pyzhevich (Rivne region) helped partisans with medicines, distributed seriously wounded people in the homes of his loyal people, and distributed Soviet leaflets and reports from the front to the population. For this, his and his entire family (wife and five daughters) punitive burned alive in his own house.

The superior of the Vidon church in Utorgosh district, Methodius Belov, not only collected funds in the occupied territory for the defense fund, which were then shipped to Moscow, but also conducted intelligence in the rear of the enemy. He was tortured in the dungeons of the Gestapo.

Archpriest Ivan Rozhanovich not only participated in the partisan movement, but also organized meetings of underground fighters with partisans. Being engaged in underground activities, he managed to liberate 15 partisans and inclined a detachment of Cossacks from the ROA to go over to the side of the Red Army.

The priest Fyodor Dmitrik served as a liaison for the Belarusian partisans. For this, the punishers exterminated his entire family, only his daughter was saved.

Vladimir Sokolov from the village of Mandush in the Bakhchisarai district not only worked closely with the partisans, but also distributed Soviet newspapers to the public. The Germans burned down his house, but he himself was saved by continuing the partisan struggle.

Archpriest Vasily Braga worked with Soviet foreign intelligence, obtained valuable information about the movement of the enemy and helped the partisans with provisions.

Priest Petranovsky in Odessa organized an underground group to conduct intelligence and disseminate information to the Soviet Information Bureau, which he received on a radio receiver hidden in the basement. Saved more than a hundred Jewish children by issuing documents of baptism.

Father Marian from the village of Guta-Stepanskaya of the Rivne region personally led the self-defense detachment, having established contact with the partisans.

Archpriest Alexander Romanushko himself joined the partisan detachment, participated in the battles, went into reconnaissance.



And this, I remind you, is only a tiny part of the names. Names in which one cannot find the names of hundreds of priests who made every effort to defeat the Red Army on our side of the front. There are no names of blockade priests there either. Eight representatives of the G-20 (elective board of the church) of the Prince-Vladimir Cathedral died of starvation and bombing, including the chairman. Eight out of twenty. In the entire Leningrad region of the 50-ti priests died of hunger 20 people.

Joseph Vissarionovich as a former seminarian was well aware of the inspirational vector of the movement of the Russian Orthodox Church, its ability to unite people in the face of a foreign threat.

Repetition of the past, or Who did the opposition learn?

Over the past couple of years, the domestic opposition movement has revealed itself with might and main. Lia Akhedzhakova alone didn’t receive a heartfelt blow, admiringly admiring the tent bomber amid the burning Maidanov tires. Passionate envy of the more resourceful Ukrainian "democrats" swept the entire opposition community. And it became clear even politically deaf. Give maidan, period. Well, and all the ensuing consequences. That is, the pro-American puppet regime, the complete disregard of the people as a geopolitical and ethnic unit of world history, and so on and so forth.

And then it began - on the same sites the communists were reproached for oppressing the church, and the church “invaded” social life, criticized the weak (in fact) education system, and immediately broadcast the “democratic” right to be stupid. In short, everything is done to set people off, to prepare the ground, because one fall in the ruble exchange rate is not enough, and it was not experienced. But here's a bad luck: if on the fertile soil on Maidana of Ukraine, the crooked Uniate Church has long been growing and the UOC was feeding in half with sin, then in Russia the Russian Orthodox Church stands steadily for thousands of years. There was only one way out - to oppose the flock of shepherds, kindle distrust, split the center of unity.

But in this they were not original. Just walked along the beaten track. Adik, to the stage! And do not pour resin on the floor! Speak faster - the boiler gets cold.

“It would be in our interests to be in such a position that each village would have its own sect, where their own special ideas about God would develop. Even if, in this case, shamanistic cults arise in some villages, like Negro or American-Indian, then we could only welcome it, because it would only increase the number of factors crushing Russian space into small units ”(Adolf Hitler).

Well done, climb into the cauldron, and then devils coal is in vain transferred.

Does the ROC have a problem? Of course have. There are no problems only with Mormons and with Jehovah's Witnesses. And it's not the patriarch's watch - it's just a populist duck, everything is much more serious. But to solve the problems of the church should the church itself from the inside. Maybe you should not treat a headache, cutting off the head, as many wish it?
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  1. Barboskin
    Barboskin 10 September 2015 06: 06 New
    +4
    God bless us all!
  2. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 10 September 2015 06: 34 New
    +2
    But the church itself must solve the problems of the church from within.

    I completely agree with the author. In the past few years, criticism of the Russian Orthodox Church has begun to roll over, and mainly comes from the so-called "opposition", which by its birth and did not stand close with Orthodoxy. The ROC is zealously criticized by people who themselves do not know and do not want to know the basics of Orthodoxy, the church charter, hierarchy, but cynically relish some details. Sad
    1. stas52
      stas52 10 September 2015 07: 13 New
      +8
      Do not confuse the Orthodox Church of the Russian Orthodox Church, unfortunately since the 20 century, these are two big differences. The author gave an example of the heroism of clergy, but do not forget the traitors

      1. Slobber
        Slobber 10 September 2015 10: 43 New
        -11
        but do not forget the traitors

        Yes, all of the current Patriarchate is a shobla of traitors. If all before religion was tied to the KGB (no, well, seriously), now these same informers, scammers and just recruited rule the ball.
        1. Weyland
          Weyland 10 September 2015 12: 45 New
          0
          Quote: razgildyay
          all of the current Patriarchate - shobla traitors


          Such things provedear Don Rab! (from)
          Less to you - what you deserve!
          1. Slobber
            Slobber 10 September 2015 16: 30 New
            +5
            We take Jo Jo Kuraev, and oh God (no, not in vain), there suddenly all the ins and outs. Take Kompromat.ru - the same thing. We assume that this is all a lie. We recall the rumors of Cyril. We begin to go deeper, to the same place where the homosexual is described in the government, and what do we see?
            In general, I personally don’t give a damn about the patriarch or the ERPEC. I go to church to be with Gd, and not pay tribute to these fat basses.
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. Weyland
              Weyland 11 September 2015 01: 12 New
              +2
              Quote: mrark
              the suffering that befell the Soviet people during the Great Patriotic War, Patriarch Kirill declared Punishment of God “for the terrible sin of the apostasy of the whole people, for trampling sacred objects, for sacrilege and mockery of the church”.


              And the Pope Leo 3rd Attile said: "You are the scourge of God." And I don’t remember that one of the Romans accused him of calling Attila the instrument of just retribution in the hands of the Lord
            2. Stanislas
              Stanislas 11 September 2015 02: 25 New
              -1
              Quote: mrark
              they fought against the instrument of divine justice and defeated him
              God willing.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Kazakh
        Kazakh 10 September 2015 11: 29 New
        +4
        Do not confuse the Orthodox Church of the Russian Orthodox Church, unfortunately since the 20 century, these are two big differences. The author gave an example of the heroism of clergy, but do not forget the traitors
        You don’t have to collect a lot of photos from an Internet of mind. Who are these people? At least on one priest of the Ukrainian Uniate UGCC. You are an idealist comrade if you are sure that there were heroes then you can’t be traitors. There were still pictures of Vlasovites to drag and attribute (let's not forget that among Russian were traitors) what is your comment? What among the priests were more traitors?
        1. Barboskin
          Barboskin 10 September 2015 12: 12 New
          +1
          It’s good that you don’t confuse God with the church!
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Karabanov
            Karabanov 11 September 2015 10: 20 New
            0
            I don’t know who how ... But I personally share the concepts of faith, church and religion.
            Vera - a subtle, emotional perception and awareness based on personal experience and the formed worldview of a person (often pretending to be weakness, it also happens).
            Religion - these are peoples or societies, united by a common spiritual idea, flowing from the same people's faith in something supernatural.
            Church - a usurper who interprets religious dogmas in his own way and prescribes his laws and rules. The lowest link in this hierarchy.
            For the true Faith, a church is not needed, but as a social institution, humanity is unlikely to be able to get rid of it. People are dumb enough, and they need a guide. Which sometimes unfortunately is vicious ...
          3. EwgenyZ
            EwgenyZ 11 September 2015 15: 54 New
            0
            It’s good that you don’t confuse God with the church!

            “To whom the church is not mother, God is not the father” (St. Cyprian of Carthage)
            I think that you have a much deeper spiritual experience than the Hierarch.
      3. Dart2027
        Dart2027 10 September 2015 18: 57 New
        0
        And where were they not?
  3. afdjhbn67
    afdjhbn67 10 September 2015 06: 37 New
    +4
    Orthodoxy in Russia has been with us for a millennium, our mentality has been formed under the influence of the Orthodox Church, but these demons will always be unfortunately,
    1. Basil50
      Basil50 10 September 2015 11: 43 New
      -14
      Orthodoxy is not related to Christianity. It is Greek Catholics who attach themselves to Orthodoxy in attempts to substantiate their claims for everything RUSSIAN. During the war, when choosing a patriarch, they adopted the name of the Russian Orthodox Church, and now they pretend that it has always been so.
      1. lopvlad
        lopvlad 10 September 2015 13: 13 New
        +3
        Orthodoxy is not related to Christianity

        this existence of the brain is not related to your head.
      2. Beaver
        Beaver 10 September 2015 13: 36 New
        +1
        Orthodoxy is not related to Christianity.


        In this case, take the trouble to explain what you mean by Orthodoxy and Christianity.
        1. aviator65
          aviator65 10 September 2015 21: 15 New
          +3
          Orthodoxy from “praise the right” is one of the postulates of the Old Slavic pagan culture, reliance on the highest spiritual principle. Christianity is faith in Christ. Probably it was meant. Through the efforts of Patriarch Nikon, these two concepts were woven into one - Orthodox Christianity.
          1. Basil50
            Basil50 11 September 2015 17: 46 New
            +2
            Orthodoxy is the culture of the Slavs, and for many centuries Greek Catholics have been adhering to this culture, even to the point that they declare themselves Orthodox. And even more so, that only the RUSSIAN is a Christian. Among RUSSIANS there are Jews and Muslims and Catholics and other believers. Are they denying kinship to them? Are they * unworthy * of their own relatives and ancestors?
  4. Nonna
    Nonna 10 September 2015 06: 46 New
    +1
    There are no atheists in a war - and that’s it.
  5. Mitrich76
    Mitrich76 10 September 2015 06: 51 New
    +4
    The Russian Orthodox Church has always been a thorn in the eye of any revolutionaries, democrats, liberals and other evil spirits. It is those who are trying to destroy the state itself. Too powerful is a force uniting all the people.
    And if this movement intensifies, then other options to turn us into a Maidanoid herd stall.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Basil50
      Basil50 11 September 2015 12: 35 New
      0
      The Russian Orthodox Church as a near-state body appeared during the war. Prior to this, this organization was called Greek Catholic.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. Max otto
    Max otto 10 September 2015 08: 25 New
    +9
    I am not against churches and faith, but I am for science and enlightenment. One thing generally turned me away from the church: the canonization of Nicholas II. The fact that he had a nickname from the people of the Bloody Church did not bother nirazu. With the family, of course, they went too far and acted unjustifiably cruelly, but Nikolai himself got what he deserved, this attitude towards him at that time, caused fierce hatred among ordinary people. Now, while he is listed as a saint, my feet will not be in the churches.
    1. Dimka off
      Dimka off 10 September 2015 09: 26 New
      0
      Quote: Max Otto
      The fact that he had a nickname from the people of the Bloody Church did not bother nirazu.

      Yeah, "from the people" after the revolution. The Bolsheviks were still not talking about the Tsar — ​​because he was their enemy. But they don’t speak well of the enemy.
      Quote: Max Otto
      Now, while he is listed as a saint, my feet will not be in the churches.

      Your problems.
    2. puppet
      puppet 10 September 2015 10: 54 New
      +1
      Quote: Max Otto
      caused fierce hatred among ordinary people

      Well, yes, that’s why he was killed only after renouncing and secretly from this very people, otherwise suddenly the grateful people of the killers will kiss from joy to death
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. stas52
        stas52 10 September 2015 11: 35 New
        +1
        In fact, the execution and renunciation are not connected in any way, there is a lot of time between them.
        On 2 (15) of March, at 23 hours, 40 minutes (the time of signing was indicated by the tsar in the document, as 15 hours is the decision time) Nikolai handed over to Guchkov and Shulgin the Manifesto of abdication, which, in particular, read: “We command our brother to rule over the affairs of the state in full and indestructible unity with representatives of the people in legislative institutions, on the principles that they will be established by taking an unbreakable oath in that ”...
        From 9 (22) March to 1 (14) August 1917, Nicholas II, his wife and children lived under arrest in the Alexander Palace of Tsarskoye Selo ...
        On 1 (14) on August 1917, at 6 hours, 10 minutes, the line-up with members of the imperial family and servants under the signboard “Japanese Red Cross Mission” set off from Tsarskoye Selo (from the Aleksandrovskaya railway station). On August 4 (17) the convoy arrived in Tyumen, then they were transported to the Tobolsk river along the river, arrested on the steamships Rus, the Breadwinner, and Tyumen ...

        As you see, the Bolsheviks have not yet been
        In early April 1918, the Presidium of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee (All-Russian Central Executive Committee) authorized the transfer of the Romanovs to Moscow in order to conduct a trial of them. At the end of April 1918, the prisoners were transported to Yekaterinburg ...
        Nicholas II, Alexandra Fyodorovna, their children, Dr. Botkin and three servants (except Sednev, a cook) were killed using cold steel and firearms in the “Special Purpose House” - Ipatiev’s mansion in Yekaterinburg on the night of 16 on July 17 on 1918 of the year
        1. puppet
          puppet 10 September 2015 11: 44 New
          +1
          if all this had been done with a legitimate king, the people would not have understood
    3. Kazakh
      Kazakh 10 September 2015 11: 40 New
      -1
      Quote: Max Otto
      Now, while he is listed as a saint, my feet will not be in the churches.

      Ears frostbite on evil mom laughing The censor will understand you there, too, in spite of the Russian I’m doing everything. Although I am also somewhat annoyed by the case of Nikolai, I visit the temple.
      1. Max otto
        Max otto 10 September 2015 13: 12 New
        +8
        Quote: Kazakh
        ... Ears frostbite on evil mom laughing The censor will understand you there, too, in spite of the Russian I’m doing everything. Although I am also somewhat annoyed by the case of Nikolai, I visit the temple.

        Frost yourself something.
        In the case of Nicholas, I certainly got excited, even if he was decanonized, I still have nothing to do in the churches, I'm an atheist. But I do not propose breaking the churches, they are, and figs with them. I’m worried about one moment how they relate to the state. All ministers of the Russian Orthodox Church and others are protected by the police and treated in ordinary clinics, children attend regular schools, but they do not pay taxes, they indirectly live at our expense, and I don’t like it. Have you heard that the church would pay for at least one operation for the needy, build a playground or provide financial assistance to the orphanage? I have not heard, there are certainly some clergy in remote parishes, but everything is on personal enthusiasm, this does not apply to the main organization. On the contrary, all the leading ministers hustle at my work in the reception room, they beg for concrete or cement for help, and they ask for nothing.

        There, Americans are already conducting experiments in preparation for the flight to Mars, but what about us? I’m watching the construction of another cathedral outside the window.
        1. puppet
          puppet 10 September 2015 14: 33 New
          -7
          Quote: Max Otto
          but they don’t pay taxes, they indirectly live at our expense

          pay taxes and there are no benefits - communal as all legal entities pay
          1. xorgi
            xorgi 10 September 2015 15: 05 New
            +6
            pupazzo, please do not lie:
            On the basis of paragraph 4 of Article 395 of the Tax Code, religious organizations are exempt from paying land tax in relation to their land plots on which buildings, structures and structures of religious and charitable purposes are located.
            According to paragraph 2 of Art. 251 of the Tax Code of the Russian Federation, when determining the tax base, targeted incomes for the maintenance of non-profit organizations and their statutory activities, received free of charge from other organizations and (or) individuals and used by the indicated recipients for their intended purpose, are not taken into account.
            In accordance with paragraphs. 1 p. 3 Art. 149 of the Tax Code of the Russian Federation, the sale in a church shop of religious literature, candles, crosses, lamp oil, baptismal sets is exempt from tax.
            1. puppet
              puppet 10 September 2015 15: 32 New
              -2
              Quote: xorgi
              pupazzo, please do not lie:

              You have listed the VAT and Income Tax incentives, and the taxes themselves take place, + transport tax, + personal income tax and insurance premiums in full

              When I bring a donation to the temple, I understand that they will not pay 20% of the income tax to the state from this donation, or do you think this is not fair?
              1. xorgi
                xorgi 10 September 2015 15: 41 New
                +7
                excuse me, but you said that “they pay taxes and there are no benefits”, I gave references that they don’t pay land taxes, they don’t declare targeted income (as I understand the basis of the church’s economy), they don’t pay VAT and income tax when selling church utensils .
                1. puppet
                  puppet 10 September 2015 15: 55 New
                  -5
                  I meant privileges not on taxes, but on costs, a communal apartment for example.

                  with regard to VAT, the essence of the tax is that the final buyer is the final buyer, if I buy goods for 118 rubles, the seller takes only 100 and gives it to the state, so loading the church with this tax is actually taking tax on me for freedom of conscience.
                  1. xorgi
                    xorgi 10 September 2015 17: 03 New
                    +4
                    on the one hand, a tax on conscience cannot be taken, but on the other, the church receives income, but does not pay taxes, i.e. making a profit the church does not allocate part of the salaries to teachers, doctors and the military
              2. xorgi
                xorgi 10 September 2015 17: 21 New
                +4
                if I gave my mother an apartment, then the state takes a tax on this, is that fair? but on the other hand teachers, unemployed, military, disabled, etc. live on this tax. why is the church against giving 20% ​​to these people?
                1. puppet
                  puppet 11 September 2015 15: 41 New
                  0
                  Quote: xorgi
                  if I gave my mother an apartment, then the state takes a tax on this, is that fair?

                  close relatives are exempt from tax, and the church is already engaged in charity
        2. puppet
          puppet 10 September 2015 14: 37 New
          0
          Quote: Max Otto
          Have you heard that the church would pay for at least one operation for the needy, build a playground or provide financial assistance to the orphanage?

          in the city of Essentuki there is a women's monastery, an orphanage for girls is located on its territory, they are brought up by novices of the monastery, children receive a general education, as in a regular school. I saw it myself.
          If you were really interested in the question of whether the church helps someone, you wouldn’t write like that
          1. xorgi
            xorgi 10 September 2015 14: 54 New
            +3
            pupazzo. unsuccessful example, the orphanage at the monasteries is brought up precisely in the church canon, give an example of the orphanage at the monastery, where there are no church items?
            1. puppet
              puppet 10 September 2015 15: 06 New
              +1
              Quote: xorgi
              at the monastery, where there are no church items

              in Israel, I don’t remember which city, there is a free school, also at a convent, also for girls. Schools are also attended by children from poor Muslim families, Muslim girls, they do not teach God's law to them. wink

              and why do you, an atheist, care about church subjects? if there is no God, then the objects are also useless ... they give the child food, clothes, a roof over his head and a secular education with which he can further develop independently - what difference does he additionally know in Church Slavonic?
              1. xorgi
                xorgi 10 September 2015 15: 29 New
                +1
                pupazzo.
                teaching any church subject for children will irreversibly change their worldview; a child will no longer be able to become an atheist, since he has no other point of view, even knowing a different opinion, he will no longer be able to think differently. The atheist himself can come to Faith, i.e. children trained in a church school are knowingly more flawed.
                1. Weyland
                  Weyland 10 September 2015 16: 08 New
                  +1
                  Quote: xorgi
                  the child will no longer be able to become an atheist, since he has no other point of view, even knowing about a different opinion, he will no longer be able to think differently.


                  But Stalin didn’t know ... wink
                  And all the other revolutionaries too - they, although they did not study in the seminaries, but in the gymnasiums the "Law of God" was an obligatory subject!
                  1. xorgi
                    xorgi 10 September 2015 17: 10 New
                    +2
                    The vast majority of revolutionaries were from wealthy families with good family upbringing, which was not always worshiped by God. Secondly, the revolutionaries in the mass fought not with Faith, but with religion, as a political institution.
                2. The comment was deleted.
                3. Pissarro
                  Pissarro 10 September 2015 16: 26 New
                  +4
                  Damage your conclusions. History knows a lot of atheists who have left the ranks of believers, as well as atheists who have come to faith. Education in a church school does not affect the process of disappointment in religion.
        3. Kazakh
          Kazakh 10 September 2015 16: 07 New
          0
          Quote: Max Otto
          On the contrary, all the leading ministers hustle at my work in the reception room,

          Here it is, the Mikhalych official showed up. And everyone knows that all the troubles are from Jews and officials laughing Now we understand your attacks on the church of competitors saw, well done laughing But seriously
          Did you hear that the church would pay for at least one operation for the needy, build a playground or provide financial assistance to the orphanage?
          I heard and saw in Rubtsovsk the Altai Territory built a playground for Pts good. Well, as if the construction of children’s playgrounds, helping orphanages is the work of officials. And the church is working just so that there are no orphanages at all.
    4. Weyland
      Weyland 10 September 2015 12: 40 New
      0
      Quote: Max Otto
      The fact that he had a nickname from the people of the Bloody Church did not bother nirazu.


      1. The nickname is actually because of Khodynka, in which he is never to blame.
      2. Google about saints such as Emperor Justinian (the uprising of "Nika"), Stefan cel Mare (by the way, the sculpted friend and cousin of Dracula). Yes, and St. Alexander Nevsky suppressed the anti-Mongol uprising in Novgorod very harshly. Only experience shows that if they were softlike Nicholas the 2nd or Louis the 16th - bloodshed would have spilled hundreds of times more! The Tsar-martyr would obey his wife (about her advice to shoot Guchkov, Milyukov and Rodzianko) - you look, and there would be no revolution!
      1. Max otto
        Max otto 10 September 2015 13: 18 New
        +3
        Quote: Weyland
        .
        1. The nickname is actually because of Khodynka, in which he is never to blame.
        2. Google about saints such as Emperor Justinian (the uprising of "Nika"), Stefan cel Mare (by the way, the sculpted friend and cousin of Dracula). Yes, and St. Alexander Nevsky suppressed the anti-Mongol uprising in Novgorod very harshly. Only experience shows that if they were softlike Nicholas the 2nd or Louis the 16th - bloodshed would have spilled hundreds of times more! The Tsar-martyr would obey his wife (about her advice to shoot Guchkov, Milyukov and Rodzianko) - you look, and there would be no revolution!

        Of course, he is innocent, it was necessary to rule the empire, and not to engage in garbage with the empire and to fall into melancholy. Yes, as for the rest, you convinced me even more of my atheism.
        1. Dimka off
          Dimka off 10 September 2015 13: 39 New
          +1
          Quote: Max Otto
          Yes, as for the rest, you convinced me even more of my atheism.

          Sounds like a threat) only to us? Everyone will be responsible for themselves and not for you.
          “A speech is mad in his heart: God be” (Ps. 13: 1).
        2. Weyland
          Weyland 10 September 2015 16: 16 New
          +3
          Quote: Max Otto
          as for the rest, you convinced me even more of my atheism.


          Here is how? But people, first of all, regard Alexander Nevsky and Stefan cel Mare not for a righteous life, but for successes in state activities!
        3. The comment was deleted.
    5. lopvlad
      lopvlad 10 September 2015 13: 19 New
      +1
      Quote: Max Otto
      canonization of Nicholas II.


      so he was canonized not because he was a righteous and great king in earthly life, but because he received martyrdom.
      To be honest, this canonization looks like an attempt at deflection before the liberals of the church authorities.
      1. Max otto
        Max otto 10 September 2015 13: 26 New
        +7
        Quote: lopvlad
        so he was canonized not because he was a righteous and great king in earthly life, but because he received martyrdom.
        To be honest, this canonization looks like an attempt at deflection before the liberals of the church authorities.

        He was simply targeted, a martyr’s death took, for example, General Karbyshev, 26 Panfilov’s and Alexander Matrosov, even the sailor Zheleznyak died more martyrly than Nicholas.
        1. Beaver
          Beaver 10 September 2015 13: 42 New
          -2
          You speak so authoritatively about the degree of painfulness of different ways of dying. Do you have much experience in this?
        2. Weyland
          Weyland 10 September 2015 16: 13 New
          +1
          Quote: Max Otto
          even the sailor Zheleznyak died more martyrly than Nicholas


          A stray bullet that fell through the loophole of an armored train ...
          Dying in an open battle is still easier than in the basement!
          1. Alf
            Alf 10 September 2015 19: 59 New
            +4
            Quote: Weyland
            Dying in an open battle is still easier than in the basement!

            Moreover, if he himself brought the matter to the appearance of the basement.
          2. xorgi
            xorgi 10 September 2015 21: 32 New
            +2
            Weyland
            Lazo’s death is painful enough for you to rank him as a saint?
            1. Weyland
              Weyland 11 September 2015 01: 34 New
              +3
              Quote: xorgi
              Lazo’s death is painful enough for you to rank him as a saint?


              The Russian word "martyr" is not a fully adequate translation of the Greek martyros - "witness", i.e. one who, through his death, has witnessed allegiance to Orthodoxy (regardless of the method of killing) Those whose death was truly painful are usually called the great martyr. Again, man, killed not for the Orthodox faith, not considered a martyr (again, regardless of the method of killing). So for the Orthodox, Lazo is not a martyr, but in the "communist holies" (since Marxism is also a kind of religion) he, of course, is a great martyr!
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. 34 region
        34 region 10 September 2015 16: 35 New
        +6
        Che is incomprehensible. Either the church renounced Nicholas after his abdication of the throne, then suddenly she loved and canonized. Why's that? It was against the Reds in the civil church, then it fell in love with them, and after the 90s it cursed the Communists.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Weyland
            Weyland 11 September 2015 01: 40 New
            -1
            Quote: mrark
            Now they demand to canonize and rank the saints of the traitor - General A. Vlasov.


            Congratulations, citizen, lie! laughing (c) Fake it! am
          2. The comment was deleted.
  8. Egoza
    Egoza 10 September 2015 08: 45 New
    +7
    I will not take the "top" as an example, but I note that simple rural fathers, although they speak Ukrainian in everyday life, hold the service as it should in Russian churches and refuse to pray for the victory of warriors in the ATO. And this, too, is worth a lot, especially since criminal cases “for separatism” have already begun against some. This is the "small force" that in the future, after the victory and the return of the Ukrainian population to the arm of Russia (and will be so) will have a significant impact on the population.
  9. xorgi
    xorgi 10 September 2015 08: 46 New
    +7
    And in my opinion this author confuses three completely different things: Faith, the Russian Orthodox Church and the heroism of people in the war. The church and religion (any) is a political institution with the goal of extending its control to an increasing number of people, while using methods that allow it to be done most efficiently (we don’t burn people because the church considers it to be wrong, but because the church is influenced by the state and individuals). Faith is completely different; God doesn’t care in what language I speak to Him, in which room, in front of what, and in what position.
    By the way, the partisan movement in our country arose not because there were Orthodox priests, but because the state we have is Russia. People (including priests) went to partisan units, because they are Russian, Russian, Soviet people. Do not confuse cause and effect.
    1. puppet
      puppet 10 September 2015 11: 13 New
      -3
      no, the author says that there are people who PR at the expense of the Russian Orthodox Church, because the Russian Orthodox Church does not comment
      and as for the partisans - read the documents of 1812: people did not perceive their life as property and were ready to give it for the Fatherland, and this is precisely the merit of priests and education in the faith (God gave man life and if it needs to be given now, it must be given , this is a guaranteed ticket to paradise - to give our lives for our friends, this is the way of Christ - He died for others and won), and the “Russians, Russians” are all derivatives. Then the people themselves rose, but in 1941, after 20 years of struggle with the church, first had to issue a decree "not a step back" sad
      1. xorgi
        xorgi 10 September 2015 14: 17 New
        +8
        pupazzo. about the partisans is not true. people fought for the Fatherland, not for the church. The priests did not engage in the upbringing of love for the Fatherland, to the tsar - yes, but for the Fatherland there is, at least in large quantities, no individual ascetics.
        As for 1941, forgive your head for propaganda fooled. At first, partisan detachments arose in the occupied territory from people of a certain mood, most often young people, either from soldiers who were surrounded, or as an organized component of party officials. After some time, people who suffered from the occupation came to the partisans. And the third component is the people who were sent from the "Center". Nationwide, priests did not play a decisive role in the partisan movement, although they participated.
    2. Kazakh
      Kazakh 10 September 2015 11: 49 New
      0
      Quote: xorgi
      Church and religion (any) is a political institution with the goal of extending its governance to an increasing number of people,

      Do you know another way to unite and educate in moral values ​​in people without resorting to religion?
      1. xorgi
        xorgi 10 September 2015 14: 27 New
        +4
        Kazakh. I know Soviet upbringing, national and family traditions. The mass of Soviet people were more moral than the people who grew up in tsarist and modern Russia. People living in small communities, where the family and “society” are engaged in upbringing, are more moral than in big cities, although the number of religious buildings, texts and figures has the opposite proportion.
        1. puppet
          puppet 10 September 2015 14: 57 New
          0
          Quote: xorgi
          I know, Soviet education,

          so the Soviet system is just an attempt to build a new religion on the basis of the previous one: do you think the phrase "glory of the CPSU" was born by itself? just took the tutorial and replaced the keywords
          I love the USSR, I grew up in it, but it collapsed because it was based on human thought, not divine revelation, and a person can’t calculate all the moves in advance, only God
          1. xorgi
            xorgi 10 September 2015 15: 19 New
            0
            puppet
            religion convinces that the foundation of everything is divine purpose and divine activity, i.e. personal unproven processes; Soviet ideology denied this and tried to build a knowledge system on an evidence base. in principle, any action and knowledge in Soviet reality could be challenged. Lenin corrected Marx, Stalin corrected Lenin, Khrushchev challenged Stalin, etc. The structure of the Soviet system laid the possibility of challenging a particular decision, hence all the undercover games in the Politburo. In religion this is not possible; try to challenge the chapter of the Bible. Hence, for example, things like dogmas and Apocrypha, in fact these are decisions that were made many years ago, try to challenge them now.
            1. puppet
              puppet 10 September 2015 15: 42 New
              -1
              that is the imperfection of the Politburo that its decisions can be challenged.
              and about the Bible, there is a vivid example - Catholics - an attempt to challenge dogmas, as practice shows, is unsuccessful, otherwise why then they began to fall into Protestants, Lutherans and various sectarians ... they challenged dogma, lost the truth, and now they are looking for it, and now Scripture is being rewritten now to gay men
              1. xorgi
                xorgi 10 September 2015 15: 57 New
                0
                why did you decide that the argument is worse than the postulate? truth in a dispute must manifest itself, in a postulate - never. This is the lack of religion in relation to scientific knowledge. If there is God, then with scientific knowledge this can be reached. If there is no God, then with a religious worldview this will never come to this.
                1. puppet
                  puppet 10 September 2015 16: 22 New
                  0
                  well, yes, when two blind people, feeling an elephant’s foot, argue whether it’s an electric pole or a telegraph pole, the truth will be born in their dispute, sooner or later

                  and it never occurred to you that we do not all know about the reality surrounding us, and we do not always have a means of cognition
                2. Weyland
                  Weyland 10 September 2015 16: 28 New
                  0
                  Quote: xorgi
                  why did you decide that the argument is worse than the postulate? truth in a dispute must manifest itself, in a postulate - never. This is the lack of religion in relation to scientific knowledge.


                  Sir, but about the existence religious disputes Have you ever heard ?! No need to flaunt so clearly your ignorance in this area!
                  1. xorgi
                    xorgi 10 September 2015 16: 58 New
                    +2
                    pupazzo.
                    I agree, but scientific thinking recognizes the incompleteness of knowledge and the imperfection of their study, in return, scientific knowledge allows knowledge of the truth, religious knowledge does not, religion itself does not allow the possibility of acquiring fundamentally new knowledge.
                    Weyland
                    religious dispute will not allow to receive the truth, it only manipulates words, expresses one through another
                3. Weyland
                  Weyland 10 September 2015 16: 28 New
                  -1
                  Quote: xorgi
                  why did you decide that the argument is worse than the postulate? truth in a dispute must manifest itself, in a postulate - never. This is the lack of religion in relation to scientific knowledge.


                  Sir, but about the existence religious disputes Have you ever heard ?! No need to flaunt so clearly your ignorance in this area!
    3. Weyland
      Weyland 10 September 2015 11: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: xorgi
      Church and religion (any) is a political institution with the goal of extending its governance to an increasing number of people, while using methods that allow it to be done most effectively


      the desire to extend their control to an increasing number of people is not inherent in any, but only universal religions!
      1. xorgi
        xorgi 10 September 2015 14: 30 New
        +1
        Weyland I was referring to traditional religions, nor making a distinction between Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and Judaism. What is a universal religion?
        1. Weyland
          Weyland 10 September 2015 16: 21 New
          0
          Quote: xorgi
          What is a universal religion?


          universe = universe. Universal religions are prone to proselytism: Christianity, Islam, Buddhism. Hindus are dofig in numbers, but Hinduism is NOT universal (Hindu must not become - they can only be born; Krishnaism, from the point of view of real Hindus, is a complete heresy). The same is with Judaism: according to the Talmud, "a neophyte on the body of Israel is like a pimple on a human body!"
          1. xorgi
            xorgi 10 September 2015 17: 13 New
            +1
            Thanks for the enlightenment.
    4. Weyland
      Weyland 10 September 2015 11: 50 New
      +1
      Quote: xorgi
      Church and religion (any) is a political institution with the goal of extending its governance to an increasing number of people, while using methods that allow it to be done most effectively


      the desire to extend their control to an increasing number of people is not inherent in any, but only universal religions!
  10. Velizariy
    Velizariy 10 September 2015 08: 57 New
    -3
    ... So long as he is listed as a saint, my feet will not be in the churches. [/ Quote]
    But the atheist is always sick in the church, to whom do you set your conditions? Your position is similar to the position of a drowning man, who is drowning but proudly announces to the rescuers in the boat: - I will not fit in, among you, those whom I do not like! What can I say ... here is your free choice ...
    And here are a few more words about hateful people:
    In Egypt, in the Sinai desert, there were saints who raised the dead and performed miracles ...
    And one such person decided to partake of the Holy Mysteries, from time to time priests came to commune with them, and here the priest went to commune one holy hermit, and at that time the hermit had a vision that the priest that nuuu was really sinful, and he didn’t open the door to the one who had come to the priest, the priest is gone. And here again there was a vision from the hermit: in the desert there is a well with the purest water and crowds of people exhausted by thirst come to it, and at the well there is a priest dirty in the scabs and with pure gold bucket it gives these people live water.
  11. CONTROL
    CONTROL 10 September 2015 09: 01 New
    -3
    There is an unrecognized opinion (confirmed by historical documents, archaeological finds and archival research) that Orthodoxy is somewhat older than Christianity in general ... quite so, about twice as old ...
    1. puppet
      puppet 10 September 2015 11: 19 New
      +1
      I wonder how this can be confirmed by documents: I think that the term Orthodoxy appeared after the Catholics broke away, and before the split, everyone was just Christians.
      1. CONTROL
        CONTROL 10 September 2015 12: 49 New
        +1
        Quote: pupazzo
        the term Orthodoxy appeared after the Catholics broke away, and before the split, everyone was just Christians.

        The term is yes! but Orthodoxy is not in the term, although Christianity is; You are not embarrassed by Easter, Christmas, and others - the festivities fundamental to Christianity - having the same striking appearance as the so-called. "pagan" rites? ... pancakes, painted bird eggs ... tree decoration with ribbons, toys ... nativity scene, finally, the Star of Bethlehem ...
        I don’t want to think about “contradictions” that are not such? ...
        1. puppet
          puppet 10 September 2015 14: 22 New
          0
          all of the above is not the essence of the holidays, but only additions related to the history of the holidays or people's living conditions: pancakes - you can’t eat meat in the oil week, but dairy products are still possible, preparation for strict fasting; eggs - read about Mary Magdalene. The main thing for a believer is not to bake pancakes, but to come to the church to serve - TAM holiday.
          And if “God is in the soul”, then at least all the eggs in the world can be painted, nothing will change. So draw conclusions about the effect of rituals on contradictions
          1. CONTROL
            CONTROL 10 September 2015 15: 17 New
            +1
            Quote: pupazzo
            then at least all the eggs in the world can be painted, nothing will change. So draw conclusions about the effect of rituals on contradictions

            However, rituals do exist, and denying it is silly, to a minimum! And the sources of the rituals are obvious, they are pre-do-pre-Christian, and it never occurs to anyone to deny this ...
            If we are talking about "God in the soul", look for materials about mystic Christians, about "sorcerers" Christians ... Copts are still mystics (I hope you will not deny that they are Christians? They will be offended ... Copts - much more ancient than Catholics!)
            1. puppet
              puppet 10 September 2015 16: 30 New
              -1
              I know little about copts

              Christian mysticism (from the Greek. Mistikos - mysterious) is the experience of a direct experience of union with God. - wonderful, but who said that this is happening in isolation from the church, sitting on the couch

              sorcerers do not belong to Christians at all, you still tell about white magic

              and you still haven’t given an example of a pagan rite in Christianity
      2. Beaver
        Beaver 10 September 2015 13: 05 New
        -2
        Before the split, everyone was Catholic. In a more accurate transliteration of "catholics."
        It doesn’t matter who got the name, it’s important who kept the sovereignly suffered Truth.
        The church explains the term “Orthodox” by translating the word “Orthodox”. Compare - Greek Orthodox Church.
      3. Dimka off
        Dimka off 10 September 2015 13: 09 New
        -1
        Quote: pupazzo
        I think that the term Orthodoxy appeared after the Catholics broke away,

        But what about the celebration of the Triumph of Orthodoxy? The establishment of the holiday is associated with the events of the Council of Constantinople in 843, convened by Empress Theodora to restore icon veneration in the Byzantine Empire. Before the split, another good 200 years.
        1. puppet
          puppet 10 September 2015 14: 26 New
          -1
          I think the Empress Theodore called herself rather a Christian than an Orthodox, especially before the cathedral
          1. Weyland
            Weyland 11 September 2015 01: 50 New
            +2
            Before the schism in 1054, the Church was called "Catholic (new Greek "catholic", i.e. ecumenical) orthodox (= Orthodox) "- unlike the heap non-Orthodox confessions - Arians, Monophysites (these include the Armenian and Coptic Churches), Monophelites, Jacobites, etc. After the split, the Western Church retained the name "Catholic", and the Eastern - "Orthodox."
          2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Beaver
      Beaver 10 September 2015 13: 25 New
      +1
      If "Christianity in general" is considered to be all heresies not recognized by ecumenical councils, then this opinion is difficult to argue with.
      PS It is not entirely clear by whom and why this opinion is not recognized. Learn more about archival research.
      PPS I agree in advance that archiving is somewhat older than Orthodoxy.
  12. Dimka off
    Dimka off 10 September 2015 09: 24 New
    +2
    Ghouls all rage about their doom.
    I will build up my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18)
    1. The comment was deleted.
  13. Velizariy
    Velizariy 10 September 2015 09: 33 New
    +3
    Quote: CONTROL
    There is an unrecognized opinion (confirmed by historical documents, archaeological finds and archival research) that Orthodoxy is somewhat older than Christianity in general ... quite so, about twice as old ...

    which document? what finds? And what archival research in the archives of the 2000 summer period?)
    And who can say that? Anyone who has never heard of any idea of ​​Christianity, of Orthodoxy (this is the same thing) has not. This is like talking about the taste of a berry that I have never eaten, but only heard about it from those who did not eat it.
    And a very strange statement that the tree is older than its root.
    1. CONTROL
      CONTROL 10 September 2015 12: 34 New
      -5
      Quote: Velizariy
      And a very strange statement that the tree is older than its root.

      Veles book, and its predecessors ...- for example; over 1000 years old (although it is recognized by some as fake! But - and the “Protocols of the Zion of the Sages” were also declared fake only on the grounds that the female agent was the informant about them ...)
      -----------------
      And so - I will not argue, much less - with an explicit, sorry, orthodox ...
      (For “opinion”, he has been an active member of the church community for 22 years; I have been teaching at a parish school; my wife is a regent in the church (several CDs were recorded)
      1. Beaver
        Beaver 10 September 2015 14: 25 New
        0
        Old Testament? Nah, I have not heard!
        1. Basil50
          Basil50 11 September 2015 12: 31 New
          0
          You heard about the Old Testament, this is * Torah *, * Holy * book of the Jews.
  14. Maksus
    Maksus 10 September 2015 09: 54 New
    -1
    Friends, let's still not be likened to the "liberals" and confuse the concepts of FAITH and CHURCH. Indeed, FAITH is that core that helps to build, experience, and improve. But the CHURCH is still people, and people are sinful, because the sins of the clergy should not cast a shadow on FAITH. Yes, we have the right to criticize the WORKERS of the church, but not its ACTIVITY.
    1. Korvo
      Korvo 10 September 2015 10: 32 New
      -1
      Quote: Maksus
      criticize ACTORS church but not her ДЕЯТЕЛЬНОСТЬ.

      It already smells like schizophrenia wassat
      1. Maksus
        Maksus 10 September 2015 11: 39 New
        +1
        Schizophrenia does not smell if it starts to smell - is someone dead or a tumor in the head grows (I'm talking about olfactory hallucinations).
        1. Korvo
          Korvo 10 September 2015 12: 07 New
          +3
          Quote: Maksus
          Schizophrenia doesn't smell

          Is that all that bothered you in my comment?

          As a "doctor" I ask you to explain how to name a person’s diagnosis when he separates the figures from their own activities wassat ?
          1. Weyland
            Weyland 10 September 2015 12: 55 New
            +1
            Quote: Korvo
            how to name a person’s diagnosis when he separates the figures from their own activities


            Very simple: good teacher.

            Never tell the baby "You bad!"
            You speak entered bad! "(c)
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Maksus
            Maksus 10 September 2015 13: 49 New
            -1
            Why is the doctor in quotation marks? You, as a person, produce a bunch of feces a day ... Do you identify yourself with this product?
        2. Kazakh
          Kazakh 10 September 2015 12: 46 New
          +2
          Quote: Maksus
          Schizophrenia does not smell if it starts to smell - is someone dead or a tumor in the head grows (I'm talking about olfactory hallucinations).

          good
      2. Weyland
        Weyland 10 September 2015 12: 52 New
        +2
        Quote: Korvo
        It already smells like schizophrenia


        Not at all! More precisely, one can (and should) criticize the actions of individual church leaders - and distinguish them from the activities of the Church as a whole!
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. puppet
      puppet 10 September 2015 11: 28 New
      -2
      Quote: Maksus
      we have the right to criticize church figures

      I would be more careful in your place: church leaders are priests who are directly subordinate to God, and those who criticize them are not interfering in their work and its end can be sad. If you criticize a soldier who is not in your command, what will be answered by his commander?
      1. xorgi
        xorgi 10 September 2015 14: 47 New
        +2
        pupazzo. Church leaders are subordinate to the diocese, not to God. The simplest example, in our village there is a church, services are held there, but there is no wedding. To whom did God say that lovers should not be married in this church? To nobody. This is an internal church administration.
        1. puppet
          puppet 10 September 2015 15: 19 New
          -1
          Well, do not distort: ​​the diocese - to the bishop, the bishop - to the patriarch.
          I don’t know about your locality, but weddings and baptisms, for example, are not held in monasteries, this is a general rule throughout the world, I hope you do not need to explain why. Since this is not in your church, then there is a reason, I also have a problem. Well, if, as you say, God is of a different opinion, then for this He will ask who should
          1. xorgi
            xorgi 10 September 2015 15: 33 New
            0
            So I’m talking about this: God is not against, against people who obey other people. therefore, church leaders do not obey God. Rather, no more than other people, they just took it upon themselves.
  15. Velizariy
    Velizariy 10 September 2015 10: 10 New
    -2
    [quote = Maksus] Friends, let's still not be like the "liberals" and confuse the concepts of FAITH and CHURCH ...
    Just the same liberals share faith and the church. For Protestants and Catholics, faith and church are separate, but they are liberals (they believe because they are comfortable and easier). And in Orthodoxy these are cohesive concepts. And the church is not only people ... and the church is not limited only to the visible material world ...
    And those who say that the church is people, that “self-believer” believes because he is comfortable and wants to and that simply fits into his mind.
    1. Maksus
      Maksus 10 September 2015 10: 23 New
      +2
      I do not agree with you. Faith is faith in Gd, not in the temple and the Pope. Is not it so? And to judge the whole mass of believers by the activities of SOME (not all of them, the truth) church hierarchs is not right. So you can slip into such a jungle that, because of one drunken idiot in a car, you begin to accuse all drivers of drunkenness.
  16. leon17
    leon17 10 September 2015 10: 51 New
    -4
    I am not a liberal. I am a patriot of our homeland. But, unfortunately, we Slavs do not know our history, do not know our origin. We are forbidden to know this information (for the time being). Who are Old Believers? What is Orthodoxy? Who are Perun, Svarog, Makosh, Mara, Belobog, Chernobog? Who knows? Answer me! Who are the barbarians? (Barbarian - from the ancient word VAR - protection, barbarians - these are multi-level defenses, girls are still called Barbara, VARezhka - protects from the cold, VARIED food - protect for a while from decay, aVARiya - lack of protection, etc. ) The Old Believers are pagans (who know the Slavic language), they are also Inglings, Inglians. The Old Believers did not believe in the Jewish religion - in Christ. FAITH means: know the RA, but do not believe it or not. Patriarch Nikon obliged him to consider faith in Christ to be Orthodoxy, so that Christianity would merge into Vedic Orthodoxy. Monsters from the school bench told us that the Slavs “half-people-half-beasts” were given a letter to us by the monks Cyril and Methodius - 49 letters (I quote the words of Patriarch Cyril: faith in Christ turned us from half-beasts to civilized people). I already laid out a photo of the alphabet of the All-World Literacy, which we had before Christianity, with the help of this letter - 147 letters (beeches) Pushkin wrote a poem Ruslan and Lyudmila. I will post this photo again. There is also a Slavic Glagolitic alphabet, runic script, syllabic script (short language of instructions - applied to weapons, household items, etc.). The Christian pseudo-Orthodox church powders the brain to the townsfolk to cover up the political system, in this case, democracy (demos are rich, kratos is governance, i.e. the social system where the wealthy rule everything, and religion covers them, all religions cover their political system - on this and profit). It's time for us Slavs to wake up, it’s enough to be slaves (God's and not only), study our past!
    1. Maksus
      Maksus 10 September 2015 11: 39 New
      0
      Are Fomenko and Nosovsky not your colleagues? They also have many interesting ideas)))
    2. Kazakh
      Kazakh 10 September 2015 12: 53 New
      +3
      Quote: leon17
      I am not a liberal. I am a patriot of our homeland. But, unfortunately, we Slavs do not know our history, do not know our origin. We are forbidden to know this information (for the time being). Who are Old Believers? What is Orthodoxy? Who are Perun, Svarog, Makosh, Mara, Belobog, Chernobog? Who knows? Answer me!

      So write articles, enlighten us if the moderators do not miss the community, let me know. And I can ask such questions without answers. Is there life on Mars? Is it high to the seventh heaven? How can I live to get paid? wink
    3. Weyland
      Weyland 10 September 2015 13: 00 New
      +2
      Quote: leon17
      Who are Perun, Svarog, Makosh, Mara, Belobog, Chernobog? Who knows? Answer me!


      Well, I know ... But how well do you know? Religion would have made sense, had the Magi survived to our time (in the sense of continuous traditions). And attempts to recreate "from scratch" long gone teaching - right, funny!
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 11 September 2015 12: 48 New
        -1
        You know * long ago * bent * Jew and remember, even * love *, but don’t want to know others? You do not lie to yourself.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. Dimka off
      Dimka off 10 September 2015 13: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: leon17
      Patriarch Nikon obliged him to consider faith in Christ to be Orthodoxy, so that Christianity would merge into Vedic Orthodoxy.

      Come on. And there is also this
      "The Word of the Law and Grace" by Metropolitan Hilarion (1037-1050):
      Praise the laudable voices of the Roman country of Peter and Paul, and even the year before Jesus Christ, the Son of God; Asia and Ephesus, and Patm John the Evangelist, India Thomas, Egypt Mark. The whole country and the hail and people are honored and praised by their teachers every time, even after teaching me Orthodox Christianity.
      Or:
      "The Tale of Bygone Years. Lavrentievsky List":
      "Such things tempt our Orthodox faith"
      Orthodoxy is also mentioned under Ivan the Terrible and in the ABC of Ivan Fedorov. Also in the life of St. Sergius of Radonezh for the 14th century:
      "The Divine Liturgy serving the whole day, but morning and evening prayers are not difficult to glorify about the humility of the whole world, and about the well-being of the holy churches, and about the Orthodox kings, and princes, and about all Orthodox Christians"
      And other Orthodox Churches - Serbian, Hellas, Bulgarian - also call themselves Orthodox. But Nikon’s power was not there.

      And the very "monk Belizarius" who allegedly wrote his texts in 532 about the "Orthodox" in Russia turned out to be a fake and the text was taken and redone from the story of the Apostle Andrew from the Tale of Bygone Years.

      Enough to powder people’s brains.
    5. Archon
      Archon 10 September 2015 14: 37 New
      0
      you, as they say, change the flea winked
  17. Basil50
    Basil50 10 September 2015 11: 29 New
    -3
    The impudence of the church is unlimited. They climb everywhere, teach, while at the same time, as in jokes about priests, they crap and abominate. The current patriarch is not only a dropout and talk about their same ancestors of nasty things. The meanness and servility of Christians is well known, while making each other righteous and saints. Nobody would go to the church with criticism if the clergy themselves did not do stupid things and did not arise with claims.
  18. Weyland
    Weyland 10 September 2015 11: 32 New
    +2
    So why did Orthodoxy become a target? Who will remove the populist cream from scandalous actions?

    The answer is:
    "After the collapse of communism, democracy has one enemy left - the Orthodox Church" (Brzezinski)
  19. Velizariy
    Velizariy 10 September 2015 12: 00 New
    +1
    Quote: Maksus
    I do not agree with you. Faith is faith in Gd, not in the temple and the Pope. Is not it so? And to judge the whole mass of believers by the activities of SOME (not all of them, the truth) church hierarchs is not right. So you can slip into such a jungle that, because of one drunken idiot in a car, you begin to accuse all drivers of drunkenness.

    The church does not believe in the pope and the temple building, the church is a collection of people, both living on earth and having passed into eternal life - saints, led by Christ and not the pope.
    And apparently you are a Protestant and not an Orthodox Christian, you do not even know the definition of the church, not that its structure.
  20. Tambov Wolf
    Tambov Wolf 10 September 2015 12: 29 New
    -1
    Faith is the core of the people. The conductor is the Church of Faith. And about the superficial, "everyone will be rewarded according to his deeds." But we will not let Faith and the Church touch anyone. Otherwise, all of us are worthless in relation to our ancestors.
  21. Archon
    Archon 10 September 2015 14: 35 New
    0
    This provocative topic very clearly shows the number of people thinking with their own heads. The result is disappointing and it saddens.
  22. Mentat
    Mentat 10 September 2015 15: 16 New
    -1
    Quote: Max Otto
    There, Americans are already conducting experiments in preparation for the flight to Mars, but what about us? I’m watching the construction of another cathedral outside the window.

    You can be an atheist - this is everyone’s choice in what to believe (a “scientific worldview” is, in fact, the religion of materialism), but it’s definitely not worth writing foolishness. How does one intersect with the other at all?

    A healthy society cannot develop without culture, art, and the satisfaction of extra-material needs.

    Skewing into a bare technocracy greatly increases the risk of self-destruction of civilization, as in this case, ethical development lags far behind technical development.
  23. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 10 September 2015 17: 35 New
    -1
    Some de.bily fight with stones, others de.bily PR on this ... When will it stop?
    1. puppet
      puppet 10 September 2015 18: 12 New
      0
      when "smart people" who from any poop can make an informational occasion disappear
  24. Mentat
    Mentat 10 September 2015 18: 17 New
    -1
    Quote: xorgi
    on the one hand, a tax on conscience cannot be taken, but on the other, the church receives income, but does not pay taxes, i.e. making a profit the church does not allocate part of the salaries to teachers, doctors and the military

    Do you not understand why the state does not tax the Church? Well, read something on this topic, if you do not understand, fill the knowledge gap. This has been practiced for a long time and not only in Russia.
    1. xorgi
      xorgi 11 September 2015 11: 40 New
      -1
      The fact of the matter is that I understand the significance of religion and the church in the modern world. No need to misinterpret me, I just pointed out the false information from one of the members of the forum. Half of the trouble is that people who believe do not believe in God, but in the religious system: the words of a priest, holy books, rituals, this in itself is strange, well, they want to believe, let them believe. BUT these people absolutely do not accept the existence of a foreign point of view, they are not capable of dialogue (do not confuse with a compromise, priests go to it), they are not capable of critical thinking. They want everyone to think like them - which is not good.
  25. Mentat
    Mentat 11 September 2015 08: 59 New
    +1
    Cons on recent posts is a good example of the fact that fanatics are not only religious, but also atheist fanatics. Rational thinking is very far from such people. They won’t be able to explain why they set the cons because they are driven by fanaticism or simply ignorance, and to figure out something to read to them, as always, is too lazy, it's easier to put a minus quietly.
  26. Mentat
    Mentat 11 September 2015 09: 06 New
    0
    Quote: Weyland
    those. one who, through his death, testified to faithfulness to Orthodoxy

    Not to Orthodoxy, but to God. The names of religions and movements are written with a small letter, by the way. Martyrs were also in other movements - among Catholics and Protestants, all of them suffered for the Christian faith, showing loyalty to God.
  27. Mentat
    Mentat 11 September 2015 10: 02 New
    0
    Well, what’s the last message why minus? Do you deny the contribution of Catholicism to Christianity or the existence of Protestant martyrs? Do not understand what the word "martyr" means? Well, go talk to the priest. Here again about this: instead of sorting it out, the minus went. So, of course, it's easier to live.
  28. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 11 September 2015 21: 55 New
    +1
    People go to church or not, I think it’s not so important in this case. I know this area well. The Petrograd side, quiet small streets. This church is new. Compared to the house. If this Mephistopheles would not correspond ---- all would be decided then. I think --- this is slander against the Russian Orthodox Church. It so happened that I don’t really think about how to go to church. I am against the fact that there had already been appointed courts in history to slander and “expose”.
  29. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 11 September 2015 23: 57 New
    +1
    Choosing a place for the church is a very serious and quick business. I learned a lot about this 2 hours. Someone recently wrote “Question --- garbage.” If the Russian Orthodox Church accepted Mephistopheles then she cannot change only ..... such as E.B.N. make such a decision! A believer cannot afford such arbitrariness.
  30. Uralets
    Uralets 15 January 2017 11: 02 New
    0
    Maybe you should not compare faith and the Russian Orthodox Church? The current Moscow patriarchy from the past has very little. The church and faith in God turned into a business for them, and this is a consequence of the policies of the USSR and the Council for Religious Affairs (read Kharchev, he said that only troeshniks were accepted in the seminary, and the KGB promoted people with bad moral qualities to the episcopates). And these people teach us how to live. I don’t know, I'm an atheist, maybe I'm emotionally interested.